Ep. 39 // "Working With What I Have" w/ R' Yossel Mochkin

00:00 Speaker 1 The nes is I didn't rebel against frumkeit and Yiddishkeit.

00:03 Speaker 2 All right.

00:03 Speaker 1 But by nature, I was a happy-go-luck, free person. I didn't like that Russian ... new tefillin, mitzvahs, rebbes. Aibishter, I know there's Aibishter. Deep down in my gut, he created me, he made me, put me down here for a purpose, and he made me a Lubavitcher for a purpose, and I have to work with what I have. And it took me many, many years of contemplating and thinking and setbacks and, and, and going up and down to realize that the Aibishter gave you your life that's for you.

00:42 Speaker 2 Welcome to Homesick for Lubavitch, a podcast where we explore Lubavitch identity in the year 2024. My name is Benzi Offson, and I will be your host. Let's begin. All right. So we are here with Rabbi Yossel Mutchkin of Crown Heights. I don't think he needs too much of an introduction. Um, been kind enough to make some time to have a conversation here. Thank you to Mendy for making the introduction.

01:18 Speaker 1 My son Mendy.

01:19 Speaker 2 Your son Mendy. Yes. Mendy's a... I, I don't keep in touch with him as much as I'd like, but he's a, he's a very good man and a good friend.

01:27 Speaker 1 Good.

01:28 Speaker 2 Yeah. So, uh, we are here with Rabbi Yossel and, uh, we were already beginning to talk before we started recording. Um, I think I just wanna give a little bit of a intro to why we started talking about this. So you asked me what this podcast is about and why I do it and what my, uh, angle is. And I said, you know, Lubavitchers talk a lot about the Rebbe and they talk a lot about shluchas, but we don't talk so much about Lubavitchers, about being a Lubavitcher. And, uh, that's when you began to say what you're saying now. Go ahead.

02:03 Speaker 1 Okay. Hi, my name is Yossel Mutchkin and, uh, come from a lineage of Hasidim, uh, till the Alter Rebbe from almost all four sides.

02:17 Speaker 2 All four sides?

02:18 Speaker 1 All four sides. My Zaidy Perez and my Bobba Henya were both, uh, from Lubavitch stock. Their, his, his grandfather was a sitzer by the Tzemach Tzedek, and he was called Leib Ber Leib because he, his shver, shver was called Leib Ber Leib. They, they, they went back since the Alter Rebbe on.

02:38 Speaker 2 The name Mutchkin itself or just the-

02:41 Speaker 1 The name Mutchkin also goes way back.

02:44 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

02:44 Speaker 1 I don't know when, when it started, but, uh, I saw on the-

02:49 Speaker 2 What does it mean? Do you know what it means?

02:50 Speaker 1 I saw on the Tog Maharzinal once. I was thinking, "What is it?" Actually, Mutchkin means ˈmem-tadek is ˈmeir-et-sadek. Kin means a son. It means a rabbi's son.

02:59 Speaker 2 Ah, interesting.

03:00 Speaker 1 It makes sense or it doesn't make sense, but I saw it printed in the Forwards years ago. I'm talking 50 years ago.

03:06 Speaker 2 Mutchkin.

03:07 Speaker 1 Because there was some Zionist Mutchkin. They were relatives. They were one family.

03:12 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

03:12 Speaker 1 And, um-

03:13 Speaker 2 So there's only one Mutchkin family?

03:15 Speaker 1 One Mutchkin family, yeah. My grandfather came here, Perez, came here in, in the 1940s, uh, when he came 1950, and, uh, he, till he managed to come here, and then he went. We had-- He had their cousins in Chicago, and he, he was not happy seeing them. They were not religious already, so he came here, but didn't, didn't work out for him.

03:37 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

03:38 Speaker 1 So-

03:38 Speaker 2 Oh, so he had cousins here, also Mutchkin?

03:40 Speaker 1 He had cousins Mutchkins in Chicago.

03:42 Speaker 2 Right.

03:42 Speaker 1 They were wealthy people, educated people.

03:45 Speaker 2 Right.

03:45 Speaker 1 Talented people, learned people, but, uh, in America, Yiddishkeit was only my grandfather kind of, uh, persevered.

03:53 Speaker 2 So all the Lubavitch Mutchkins are all from Perez?

03:56 Speaker 1 Well, it's-

03:57 Speaker 2 Is one, is one-- Is there the one Lu- is there one Lubavitch Mutchkin family?

04:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. It, it, it, it, it, it goes back to the same question that I think is underemphasized and, and hard to understand. Where is all the dynasty of Schneersohn? The Alter Rebbe had so many, uh-

04:18 Speaker 2 Right

04:18 Speaker 1 ... kids. Tzemach Tzedek had five kids, rebbes and-

04:20 Speaker 2 Right. Right

04:21 Speaker 1 ... so many tzetzoim and tzetzoim, tzetzoim. Where are they all?

04:25 Speaker 2 Yeah.

04:25 Speaker 1 Where's the whole dynasty? Where's Kapust? My, my grandmother was, uh, re- uh, her fa- her grand-father was a Hasid of, I believe, the Nezhin. Ne- uh, Retitzer. Uh, um, there was five sons, so there was Ladyer, there-

04:42 Speaker 2 Right

04:42 Speaker 1 ... Retitzer, and, and then there was Kapust the known and, and where's the whole dynasty?

04:49 Speaker 2 Right. Oh, so your, your grandmother comes from one of those, uh, offshoots of Lubavitch.

04:54 Speaker 1 Offshoots of, yeah.

04:56 Speaker 2 And then they, they still-

04:57 Speaker 1 And they came, she came back to Lubavitch

04:57 Speaker 2 ... they still married each other.

04:58 Speaker 1 She married Perez and, and yeah, she married Perez and, uh-

05:02 Speaker 2 So that was the thing, that people would marry each other.

05:04 Speaker 1 So, so th-this in itself is a, a history that he, her f- her father had five What does that mean? Just for people who don't know the-

05:17 Speaker 2 They were, they were older. They were already in their 30s. They didn't know how old my grandmother was, whether she was 10 years old, eight years older than my grandfather or 15 years. It was a yeshovim.

05:26 Speaker 1 Oh, she was older than your grandfather.

05:27 Speaker 2 She was older than my grandfather, like 10, 15 years.

05:30 Speaker 1 Wow.

05:31 Speaker 2 Or 8 to 10 to 15 years. There was, uh, we're, we're, we're not clear on it because-

05:35 Speaker 1 Yeah, nobody knows how old anybody was then

05:36 Speaker 2 ... they actually had very good records in Russia, but this is the fact. The, the, people themselves, till the Rebbe came and made a whole to-do about, uh, uh, yemei ledes, people never paid much attention to it. So b'meila, and a lot of parents passed away young-

05:53 Speaker 1 Right

05:53 Speaker 2 ... and there was no communication in that sense that people, uh, um, people, uh, uh, uh, uh, records in history got lost.

06:02 Speaker 1 Right. Right.

06:03 Speaker 2 So, so my grandmother, uh, uh, they didn't know how old she was, and, uh-

06:09 Speaker 1 It was like this, uh, so the version I heard was she was a pharmacist by trade. She learned pharmacist. They, there was no

06:21 Speaker 2 Right

06:21 Speaker 1 ... really, she was really, uh, very poor even in-

06:25 Speaker 2 Right

06:25 Speaker 1 ... in He- in Yivra. But, but sh- brilliant people.

06:30 Speaker 2 Tzena-

06:30 Speaker 1 Had a memory, eisen.

06:32 Speaker 2 Yeah, Tzena Rena, they used to, they used to daven on the

06:35 Speaker 1 Yeah

06:35 Speaker 2 ... Chumash with Yiddish, yeah

06:38 Speaker 1 Whatever, yeah, whatever it is, I don't know that, but it, it seems like-

06:40 Speaker 2 That's what my grandmother Hassen was like that, yeah

06:42 Speaker 1 Could be, yeah. So, so, and then she became blind, so it's natural that she didn't, uh, s- study or learn much.

06:49 Speaker 2 She became blind as a, as a young woman.

06:52 Speaker 1 Uh, she was in Paris. Uh, it was already after they left Russia. She figured it was a cold, and she didn't go to the doctor. It was their primi- primitive approach to life.

07:02 Speaker 2 Right.

07:02 Speaker 1 That, that-

07:03 Speaker 2 Escaping the war, yeah

07:04 Speaker 1 ... she let, sh- uh, uh, glaucoma, which runs in, in families actually. My, I have glaucoma in one eye. It's unusual.

07:14 Speaker 2 Really?

07:14 Speaker 1 But, and, and, and I came to the, the eye doctor when I was, like, 35. I didn't have any problems, and he said to me, "You could start taking drops now, but you have to take it all your life, or you'll deal with it when it comes." And like everything else, I said to myself, "It's very hard for me to be a

07:35 Speaker 2 Right

07:43 Speaker 1 ... 」。Before I go to sleep。」 So it's a very hard thing for me to say that, and, and-

07:48 Speaker 2 Okay

07:48 Speaker 1 ... and, uh, when you're all over the place, it's, it's very hard to live step by step, uh,

07:55 Speaker 2 Mm

07:55 Speaker 1 ... 」。So I said to him, "Look, I'll deal with it when it comes."」 And unfortunately, uh, I was going, I had an appointment to the doctor, and, um, and I was going with my bike on Utica Avenue, and I stopped by a light. I was standing there with my bike. I wasn't on my bike, but I was on the street where there's parking. There was a white lane over there, parking. I was crossing Utica from one side to the other by Avenue K or something. In any case, a, a car swerved 'cause it was a small-

08:30 Speaker 2 Right

08:30 Speaker 1 ... street, and then here it becomes green, and there, right, whatever it is, he swerved, and he hit me, and he, he broke my pelvis and, uh, uh, I-

08:38 Speaker 2 Well, when, when was this?

08:39 Speaker 1 About eight years ago.

08:41 Speaker 2 Wow.

08:41 Speaker 1 And I, and, and, and, and I, I was in the hospital. I ended up seven months in bed in this room over here in the hospital bed.

08:48 Speaker 2 Yeah.

08:48 Speaker 1 And, and since then was my struggle to get back into-- I never got back really into the system, but-

08:54 Speaker 2 Yeah

08:54 Speaker 1 ... but I have exercise equipment, and I have a trainer who comes, and it keeps me going by exercising and working on my, my bones and my health and my-

09:04 Speaker 2 All from that accident

09:04 Speaker 1 ... balance, all from that acc- it was three, three, uh, uh, it was three operations.

09:11 Speaker 2 Wow.

09:11 Speaker 1 And, and every time I, I went in for the operation, the doctor says to me, "Say goodbye to your wife. Most people don't make it." And I, and I said, I said, I turned around and says, "Amesdem, you want me here, here. You want me there, there. Wherever you want me, I'm good, as long as I'm with you." So that's the attitude I had, and I never give up, and I, and, and, and, and from, sometimes from setbacks come, come out good things. I was able... And it's another, uh, talk, but, uh, I don't mind to speak about it.

09:40 Speaker 2 Well, I, I wanna get back first to, I wanna get back first to you mentioned two interesting things. You mentioned, first of all, that your, your grandmother came from one of the offshoots of Lubavitch.

09:50 Speaker 1 Correct.

09:50 Speaker 2 And then-

09:51 Speaker 1 So he... Yeah, so let me finish.

09:52 Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly.

09:53 Speaker 1 He went, uh, uh, so, so she was an uptaker. So they were not, they were not totally Frum and, and oblivious to society. They were already, in those days,

10:06 Speaker 2 Yeah

10:06 Speaker 1 ... 」。She was a, a pharmacist」。

10:10 Speaker 2 Yeah.

10:11 Speaker 1 Must have been something. On the other hand, she didn't wanna marry a Zionist or a Fry guy.

10:17 Speaker 2 Right, right.

10:17 Speaker 1 So there was no

10:18 Speaker 2 Right

10:18 Speaker 1 ... for them. So when they were younger, they, they, they couldn't find the right match. Like today, people, there's a lot of issues with

10:26 Speaker 2 Right.

10:26 Speaker 1 So by the time sh- sh- she got married, she was already in her 30s, and all her sisters, actually.

10:33 Speaker 2 No, my

10:33 Speaker 1 So, so her father came to Lubavitch looking for a Frum

10:42 Speaker 2 Huh

10:42 Speaker 1 ... and, and it was, it, it was, uh, I think Raynem was the one who introduced him to this, and he said, "If you say he's a

10:52 Speaker 2 Yeah

10:53 Speaker 1 ... my grandfather was 21, and, and, and, and, and he learned seven years in Lubavitch, my grandfather.

11:00 Speaker 2 So since he was a

11:01 Speaker 1 Since he was-

11:02 Speaker 2 ...

11:02 Speaker 1 Since he was 15, 14 and a half, 15. He was seven years in Lubavitch, and he wrote me a letter when I was in Benar, I learned by Adnisin for, for when I was 14, 15. He wrote me a letter that, "I was seven years in Lubavitch, "... and, uh, I, I went home for Pesach that year. I was 21 years old. That's what he writes to me. So- ... later, he said when ev- every, uh, schwager of his got married to one of her sisters, my grandmother's sisters,

11:52 Speaker 2 Right

11:52 Speaker 1 ... the Rebbe Rashab told his schwager, "He's, he talked to another to marry one of his, her, his, uh, her father's sisters."

12:05 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

12:05 Speaker 1 And, and eventually, all these people came back to the Rebbe Rashab because there was- There was no continuation

12:11 Speaker 2 It was, it's just interesting to me that you would think that that divide of, you know, uh, you said it wasn't couples, but that whole divide, it was a very painful-

12:18 Speaker 1 It could, it could have been geographical

12:20 Speaker 2 ... but it was a painful parshah at the time

12:22 Speaker 1 Yeah

12:22 Speaker 2 Right?

12:22 Speaker 1 Of course there was, there was-

12:23 Speaker 2 It was a painful, it was a painful parshah

12:24 Speaker 1 ... there was machlikess

12:25 Speaker 2 Right

12:25 Speaker 1 Uh, uh, uh, who knows what was going on there? I, I-

12:30 Speaker 2 Right

12:30 Speaker 1 ... I heard things, but I don't know

12:32 Speaker 2 I, I, I'm just saying, I'm saying, you know that there was machlikess there, and it's interesting that people at the end of the day-

12:36 Speaker 1 But it was, at the end of the day-

12:37 Speaker 2 ... they got over it

12:37 Speaker 1 ... I think it was geographical

12:39 Speaker 2 Was Pshat

12:40 Speaker 1 If you lived in Ratzita, you, you became automatically-

12:43 Speaker 2 No, I, I understand

12:43 Speaker 1 ... after the Ratzita

12:44 Speaker 2 But you would think-

12:45 Speaker 1 If you lived in Nezin, you li- you went after the Neziners

12:47 Speaker 2 No, but you would, you would think, or I would think that, that, uh, Baba Trebokha hears that, uh, there's this guy from the, from the Ratzita branch who comes to Tekutim. I don't want anything to do with them. They're, they're a bunch of oysvorfs or whatever, and clearly that's not how people thought

13:02 Speaker 1 They were, they were, they, they certainly were halachik hidden. They were-

13:05 Speaker 2 Right

13:05 Speaker 1 ... learning Likud Ete. We, we learn Likud Ete till today

13:09 Speaker 2 They learn the same things, um, uh, yeah

13:10 Speaker 1 You know, I sat, uh-

13:11 Speaker 2 Yeah

13:11 Speaker 1 ... I sat, uh, a couple weeks ago in the shul, and a guy comes over to me and he says, "I gotta tell you." It was last week in Miami Beach, Florida

13:25 Speaker 2 You were in Miami Beach

13:26 Speaker 1 No, the guy tells me he was

13:27 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

13:27 Speaker 1 "And my son lives there, Shleme"

13:29 Speaker 2 Right

13:29 Speaker 1 "And I saw him the same exact position like you sitting by Likud Ete and learning." And what could be a b- be- better nagas settle that your son who lives in Florida at least has Likud Ete. So we, we live by our Bible, by our-

13:49 Speaker 2 Right

13:49 Speaker 1 ... Ete shival, uh, pimis ha te, te shival bigsav, sidis is Likud Ete, Talia

13:55 Speaker 2 Sidis your parshah, yeah

13:56 Speaker 1 Yeah. The Alter Rebbe actually gave out more sidis than all the other Rabbeim, probably besides the, the Rebbe. But, uh-

14:02 Speaker 2 Is that right?

14:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. If you look at the amount of casitas that's available-

14:07 Speaker 2 Uh

14:07 Speaker 1 ... Alter Rebbe's is more than everyone

14:09 Speaker 2 Huh. This week's episode is brought to you by This World Is A Garden, a new film and concert production by UVLA Media. Based on the Rebbe's first talk, Basse Lagane, the production tells the story of the Chabad vision lasting over 300 years to see this world as God sees it, as his garden. Combining beautiful cinematography with a live performance of a string quartet, This World Is A Garden is a meditation on hope and holding onto a vision as time passes by. This production is now available to be shown at your Chabad House and community. Share the message and vision of Basse Lagane with your community in a way you never have before. For more information, please visit thisworldisagarden.com. So, and then you said something else before that about, so you had a shailah or you were answering a shailah, what happened to the whole Schneersohn lineage? Well-

15:03 Speaker 1 Yeah, I thought a lot about it

15:05 Speaker 2 Right

15:06 Speaker 1 That's, you know, I'm not a historian or-

15:08 Speaker 2 Right

15:08 Speaker 1 ... I can't come to any conclusions, but I just wanted to remark that it wasn't just the Nazis that destroyed Klal Yisro. It was the communism-

15:19 Speaker 2 Yeah

15:19 Speaker 1 ... and, and, and, and the poverty and the, and the, and, and the struggles of, of sicknesses and, and, and wars and, and years of... You know, I, I was in Nezin. I, I, I, I was on the kever of Mendel Chen, Havayi Kimdomi, and, and, and he died because there was a program

15:38 Speaker 2 Right

15:39 Speaker 1 And the, and the local Galach said to him, "You can come into my church and I'll protect you." And he, he didn't go in, and they killed him

15:46 Speaker 2 Hmm

15:47 Speaker 1 And it's like-

15:48 Speaker 2 And this was before the war

15:50 Speaker 1 Yeah. This is, this-- He was young. He was, like, 35

15:52 Speaker 2 I'm saying this was before the World War II. This is-

15:55 Speaker 1 This is, uh, uh, whatever the, the, the, it was, you know, there was the big kinus from the Rabbonim that the Rebbe Rashab went there, and he-

16:02 Speaker 2 Yeah

16:02 Speaker 1 ... he went with Mendel Chen

16:04 Speaker 2 And that's where he was killed

16:05 Speaker 1 Uh, no-

16:06 Speaker 2 No?

16:06 Speaker 1 ... in the-

16:06 Speaker 2 A bit later

16:07 Speaker 1 He's killed around Nezin because his end kever is in Nezin

16:10 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

16:11 Speaker 1 You see, the, the Midla Rebbe's tziyen is there

16:13 Speaker 2 Right

16:15 Speaker 1 So I go every year to Uman, to Uman for the last dozens of year

16:19 Speaker 2 To Uman

16:20 Speaker 1 Uman, yeah. I, I'm the chazan there for Chabad

16:23 Speaker 2 Oh, really?

16:23 Speaker 1 I made a Chabad minyan, and there are years we had, like, 500 people there that-

16:29 Speaker 2 What, what, what brought you to Uman?

16:31 Speaker 1 I have a friend, Yom Newman, Dr. Newman

16:33 Speaker 2 Okay

16:33 Speaker 1 So he's a volunteer f- uh, doctor that comes there for the week or two-

16:39 Speaker 2 Right

16:39 Speaker 1 ... to, uh, uh, be there in the medical center

16:43 Speaker 2 In case of emergency, yeah

16:44 Speaker 1 In ca- So he started a shtikel minyan with 10 people, 15 people, and then he called me because I, I can daven well, Baruch Hashem, and, uh, and I can chazar sidis and do mitzvot. And on the average year, put on over 1,000 kids film

17:00 Speaker 2 Really?

17:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. And we went there a Shabbos before. We went to a place, Vinnytsia. We used to go to a hotel, and he used to pay for it. And I used to pay money, and we used to make a Shabbaton and teach the people how to keep Shabbos, how to, how, how to make kiddush, Arhan hands

17:14 Speaker 2 What are these people-

17:15 Speaker 1 In Vinnytsia

17:16 Speaker 2 They're, they're people that don't know how to keep Shabbos that come to Uman?

17:17 Speaker 1 Yeah, there's a lot of, uh, Mekubavim in, in-

17:19 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

17:19 Speaker 1 ... in, in Russia, Ukraine-

17:21 Speaker 2 Ah, not the, not the-

17:21 Speaker 1 That local shliach brings-

17:23 Speaker 2 Okay

17:23 Speaker 1 ... brings them to a resort

17:25 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

17:25 Speaker 1 And we make a Shabbaton

17:27 Speaker 2 Oh, you're not talking about the people that come in for Rosh Hashana-

17:29 Speaker 1 No, no. I'm saying that's-

17:30 Speaker 2 The locals

17:31 Speaker 1 ... before that

17:31 Speaker 2 The locals

17:31 Speaker 1 ... before Rosh Hashana

17:32 Speaker 2 Uh-huh. With the locals

17:33 Speaker 1 Between Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, we went around to all the shtetlach shechting kapores

17:37 Speaker 2 Are you a shochet?

17:38 Speaker 1 I, uh, for that purpose, I became a shochet

17:40 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

17:41 Speaker 1 I'm not a shochet by trade, but I learned. He, he actually taught meshicha, and then I, I learned-

17:46 Speaker 2 The doctor

17:47 Speaker 1 Yeah. He's a shochet

17:48 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

17:49 Speaker 1 And, and, and we shechted. He's, was standing oib mit Agabov, and, and, and I learned, uh, halachas and, um, and, uh, I for years already going around shechting hundreds and hundreds of, uh, kapores in a lot of, uh, shtetlach. And then Yom Kippur, I, I, I used to daven in a place, Czernowitz, where the Rizhiner is near Sadigura- And, uh-

18:11 Speaker 2 So you don't stay by Ohel Menucha in Kipper?

18:14 Speaker 1 No, in Kipper I, I daven in, in Chernovitz.

18:17 Speaker 2 Not Roman.

18:17 Speaker 1 Not Roman, because that's only two days Roshana there.

18:21 Speaker 2 Ah, nobody stays for in Kipper.

18:22 Speaker 1 Nobody stays. Uh, maybe some, but the real, uh-

18:24 Speaker 2 It's Roshana

18:25 Speaker 1 ... Roshana is, is like 60,000 people.

18:27 Speaker 2 Ah.

18:28 Speaker 1 This is a lot of people.

18:29 Speaker 2 What's up Shatta Lubavitchers being over there? What's, what's, what's HaVartz?

18:32 Speaker 1 Where was Lubavitch invited?

18:34 Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, I-

18:35 Speaker 1 W- what's up Shatta Lubavitch in Timbuktu, in, in, in-

18:38 Speaker 2 No, no, no

18:38 Speaker 1 ... Indiana, and in-

18:39 Speaker 2 No, I understand, but what-

18:40 Speaker 1 What's, what, what, w- who, who asked them to come there?

18:42 Speaker 2 No, no, I, no, no, I-

18:43 Speaker 1 So what's your question?

18:44 Speaker 2 I, I'm talking about, I'm talking about you said there's 500 people at the Lubavitch Minyan.

18:48 Speaker 1 I, I, first of all-

18:50 Speaker 2 What are they finding there, is my question

18:51 Speaker 1 ... first of all, I, I told you I, I had a couple of stands there of Tefillin.

18:56 Speaker 2 Right.

18:56 Speaker 1 We put on, on average, over 1,000 kids Tefillin.

18:59 Speaker 2 That's beautiful.

19:00 Speaker 1 That's the... And, and my main tafkid was, my main shlichas there, as you call me, I'm not a Shliach, I'm just a Hasid, but-

19:08 Speaker 2 I under- I understand that

19:09 Speaker 1 ... my, I, I, I'm, I, I, okay. Uh, so my main shlichas was going there and a lot of kids after the summer, um

19:23 Speaker 2 Right

19:23 Speaker 1 ... and, and, and some of them say, "It's, uh, it's over with me." They give up.

19:28 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

19:28 Speaker 1 So you're supposed to tell them, "Whatever, regardless what happened, go back to Yeshiva. Don't give up on yourself." And, and I believe hundreds of kids went back to Yeshiva with, from meetings like that. I used to sit with six kids, w- learn one Ma'amad, another six kids, another Ma'amad. Busy 24 hours learning and connecting and talking and, and, and-

19:49 Speaker 2 Wow

19:49 Speaker 1 ... and, and showing them some love and warmth, and it's, it's nothing to do with Lubavitch. It has to do with the Acherai Yeteir Mitzvahs. Go back to which Rabbi you have, which Yeshiva you are from, and, and, and, and, and, and serve Hashem.

20:02 Speaker 2 Right.

20:02 Speaker 1 So, so, so this is-

20:04 Speaker 2 I mean, that's how it used to be back in Russia, wasn't it? I mean, like Lubavitchers were not... Most Lubavitchers didn't live in Lubavitch, obviously. Most Lubavitchers didn't even live in Lubavitch communities. Lubavitchers lived scattered around other people, right?

20:17 Speaker 1 I, I, I, I feel very much over there a chelek of Klal Yisroel, and I like that.

20:21 Speaker 2 You like it?

20:22 Speaker 1 Because I don't like that Chabad and everybody else or, or that certain stigma that they even throw on you.

20:31 Speaker 2 Is that a-

20:31 Speaker 1 "Oh, we're the Pilish Hasidim."

20:33 Speaker 2 Right.

20:33 Speaker 1 "We're the Misnagdim."

20:34 Speaker 2 Right.

20:34 Speaker 1 "And you're just an outcast living in Crown Heights."

20:37 Speaker 2 Right.

20:38 Speaker 1 It's, it's a very geological, uh, today a lot more integrated because of the Chabad houses, because of the kashrus, the food, because of the-

20:47 Speaker 2 Right

20:47 Speaker 1 ... the, the hotels, because of, there's a lot more Lubavitchers living in Monsey and then, and, and-

20:53 Speaker 2 It's mixed, yeah

20:53 Speaker 1 ... and the whole world, it took them a long, long time to integrate us.

20:57 Speaker 2 Did it bother you-

20:58 Speaker 1 Because we look different

20:59 Speaker 2 ... did it bother you back in the mems and the lameds also when you lived here? When you were, like, the, when Lubavitch in Crown Heights was, was, was what it was back then, did it bother you that it was segregated at the time also?

21:12 Speaker 1 It, uh, uh, uh, it, it wasn't something that bothered me. Uh, was I aware of it? Definitely.

21:19 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

21:19 Speaker 1 But I grew up when, when Crown Heights was still white.

21:24 Speaker 2 Right. The-

21:25 Speaker 1 And my neighbors were Hungarish.

21:27 Speaker 2 When did you come to Crown Heights?

21:29 Speaker 1 Like f- I, I came, uh, uh, f- '58, 50, uh, like '57.

21:36 Speaker 2 So your father moved from Montreal?

21:37 Speaker 1 I was born in Montreal.

21:38 Speaker 2 Right, okay.

21:39 Speaker 1 And, and, and when I was two years old I came here. So I actually lived on Sterling Street when I was like, uh... First I lived at St. Mark's Avenue on the other side of Eastern Parkway-

21:49 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

21:49 Speaker 1 ... for a couple years, and then we went to Sterling Street, and then to Empire Boulevard. So-

21:53 Speaker 2 So, so you remember Crown Heights when it was more-

21:55 Speaker 1 White

21:55 Speaker 2 ... integrated.

21:56 Speaker 1 White.

21:56 Speaker 2 No, but, but-

21:57 Speaker 1 When the Rebbe used to walk down to the, the Tashlich, it was all Yidden, white people-

22:03 Speaker 2 But, but you're not talking so much about white

22:04 Speaker 1 ... on the avenue

22:04 Speaker 2 ... you're talking about the other Yidden also.

22:05 Speaker 1 In Parkslap.

22:05 Speaker 2 You were talking in reference-

22:06 Speaker 1 Everybody

22:07 Speaker 2 ... to other Kehillahs or other Chutlach-

22:08 Speaker 1 Other Kehillahs

22:09 Speaker 2 ... Rebelech.

22:09 Speaker 1 We, we davened, when we lived on St. Mark's Avenue, we davened in Bobov.

22:14 Speaker 2 You didn't come to Seven- 70 every, every Davening?

22:16 Speaker 1 No, we davened in Bobov. It's a little too far, 770. My father just left me as a kid. We davened Mincha, Maariv in Bobov. Actually-

22:22 Speaker 2 Uh

22:22 Speaker 1 ... from there, I, I'm-

22:23 Speaker 2 Where's St. Mark's? I don't know where it is.

22:26 Speaker 1 There's-

22:26 Speaker 2 Is it before Flatbush?

22:27 Speaker 1 There's St. John's Avenue.

22:29 Speaker 2 Right.

22:29 Speaker 1 And behind it two streets is St. Mark's.

22:31 Speaker 2 Uh-huh. So for a kid it was too far to walk in.

22:33 Speaker 1 Too far, far to walk, and, uh, and we used to have Ma- Maariv in, in, in Mincha, Maariv, uh, Kabbalat Shabbat in, in Bobov.

22:41 Speaker 2 In Bobov.

22:41 Speaker 1 And, um, and later when we lived on Empire Boulevard, my father used to go to Sk- Skulyn a lot, to Skulener Rebbe.

22:49 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

22:49 Speaker 1 So my father, he had friends, uh, also Satmar Hasidim-

22:52 Speaker 2 Right

22:52 Speaker 1 ... in business, uh, in, so we did have a little, uh, taste of, uh, other people also.

22:59 Speaker 2 So what happened? What happened? Why did Lubavitch get so segregated? Is it just the geography? Everybody left and Lubavitch stayed? Is it the, the whole Mashiah thing?

23:08 Speaker 1 First the geography, then our looks. We, we look different than everybody else.

23:11 Speaker 2 Right.

23:12 Speaker 1 Then they, they, uh, I would tend to say that Satmar fought the whole world, not just Lubavitch.

23:19 Speaker 2 That's a, that's for sure.

23:20 Speaker 1 They fought Klausenberg and they fought, uh-

23:22 Speaker 2 Yeah

23:22 Speaker 1 ... everybody. I don't know all the Machlikestim, but I, I think the, uh, we weren't the only ones they were fighting with.

23:28 Speaker 2 No, of course not. No. No.

23:30 Speaker 1 So, so, so what happened was that the, uh, it took them a long time to see that they're not gonna get anywhere with that type of behavior. I think the young generation didn't buy it.

23:43 Speaker 2 The young Satmar generation.

23:44 Speaker 1 Young generation didn't buy it, and everything is more like when, when, when they made the kashrus, you know, the Rebbe once said that, somebody asked the Rebbe, "Why are you guys making shluchim and, and they're making the kashrus?" So the Rebbe says, "Zei machen, machen die baigelach, mir machen die kepelach."

24:03 Speaker 2 Ah.

24:03 Speaker 1 That's what the Rebbe said. So it was, it- if, if they didn't do what they did, we would have to be in the kashrus. Actually today, the, we have enough of, of businessmen and kashrus and everything. Actually, I was in the food business myself.

24:17 Speaker 2 Back in the day.

24:18 Speaker 1 Back in-

24:18 Speaker 2 You, in the pizza store or befo-

24:20 Speaker 1 Before that I was in wholesale.

24:21 Speaker 2 Oh.

24:21 Speaker 1 I sold, uh, truckloads of, uh, tuna, mayonnaise, uh-

24:25 Speaker 2 Right

24:25 Speaker 1 ... sauce. I did a lot of, I did in my life a lot of things.

24:29 Speaker 2 A lot of things.

24:29 Speaker 1 This was one of the things I did, food business.

24:31 Speaker 2 Right.

24:31 Speaker 1 I asked the Rebbe a broche for the food business, and the Rebbe said to me, "Zo zein mit a kenein v'da ke sholem." It shouldn't, there shouldn't be any Machlikess, you know? Comes through a hechsher, the hechsher from, from Crown Heights. Well, and the reason I did it was I told the Rebbe because I, they, the, the hechsher asked me to do it 'cause they wanted a hechsher with Lubavitch hechsher because they didn't want other hechsherim because ... Kein mench fallot nor ze. I was saying before it, it seems to me, I can't accuse them, that Satmar when they made a hechsher for the eigen there, they had their own standards, and everybody else-

25:05 Speaker 2 Mm

25:05 Speaker 1 ... you c- they're not, they're goyim, so you can give them, you can tell them it's kosher and you can give them this. You can't rely on that.

25:12 Speaker 2 Is it-

25:12 Speaker 1 That's, that was my feeling.

25:13 Speaker 2 You're saying that was your aside of, of, of-

25:15 Speaker 1 Yesiv-

25:15 Speaker 2 ... lack of, of trust

25:16 Speaker 1 ... of, for lack of trust. It wasn't just because they, they-

25:20 Speaker 2 They don't like software

25:20 Speaker 1 ... cut off an opinion's beard.

25:22 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

25:22 Speaker 1 It was, it was, it was their shita as the evidence also muter on, on yen can give mouths.

25:29 Speaker 2 Ah, interesting.

25:30 Speaker 1 S- so that's my feeling. I'm, I'm, I'm not, uh, I- I'm not a, you can't but this is what I-

25:37 Speaker 2 Uh, it's okay. Th- there's, there's a disclaimer on the podcast-

25:40 Speaker 1 Yeah

25:40 Speaker 2 ... that nobody can follow us on anything.

25:42 Speaker 1 Right, right. Okay.

25:42 Speaker 2 We're just talking.

25:43 Speaker 1 So-

25:44 Speaker 2 We're just talking

25:44 Speaker 1 ... it's, it's conversation, exactly.

25:46 Speaker 2 We're just talking. So you were saying earlier that you wanted to go on schlichas. Can you, can you describe a little bit what it was like to grow up as a bachur? Um, you must have been the lameds.

25:55 Speaker 1 It was exciting.

25:58 Speaker 2 Uh, well, which years were, which years would you say were your bachur shiyurim? The chafs lameds?

26:04 Speaker 1 Chaf-

26:05 Speaker 2 No, you're, you're too young.

26:06 Speaker 1 Why am I too young?

26:07 Speaker 2 You're too, I'm saying you're too-

26:08 Speaker 1 Chaf, uh, uh-

26:09 Speaker 2 When did you-

26:10 Speaker 1 Chaf, chaf kes, chaf tes or zayin chaf kes, chaf tes, lamed.

26:15 Speaker 2 That you remember

26:16 Speaker 1 I don't know what I remember. I, I, I-

26:18 Speaker 2 But what was your bar mitzvah? What, what, what was your bar mitzvah?

26:21 Speaker 1 Uh, chaf tes.

26:25 Speaker 2 Chaf tes? Okay, so you were bachur the la- the late chaf through the lameds.

26:28 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

26:29 Speaker 2 So what was it like back then? What was the, what was the-

26:31 Speaker 1 Oh, the Beatles were great.

26:32 Speaker 2 What's that?

26:33 Speaker 1 The Beatles were great.

26:34 Speaker 2 You knew about the Beatles back then?

26:35 Speaker 1 Yeah.

26:36 Speaker 2 Really?

26:36 Speaker 1 It was the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the ruach that swept the country, Woodstock, and-

26:43 Speaker 2 For-

26:43 Speaker 1 I don't know exactly the year

26:43 Speaker 2 You know about it, but did you, did you listen to the music?

26:46 Speaker 1 No.

26:46 Speaker 2 People, bachurim would hear the music?

26:48 Speaker 1 Whoever had a tire and, and, and was musical. Uh, uh, uh, uh, I mean, I grew up-- so to talk candidly, my mother had a radio in the house.

27:00 Speaker 2 Okay.

27:01 Speaker 1 She listened to, uh, opera.

27:03 Speaker 2 Okay.

27:04 Speaker 1 There was a, a, a Hasid, Rabbi Yese Belanitsky.

27:08 Speaker 2 I've heard the name.

27:09 Speaker 1 The Risholnef's son.

27:10 Speaker 2 Okay.

27:11 Speaker 1 And he got married to the Risholneveler's daughter.

27:14 Speaker 2 Okay.

27:14 Speaker 1 But it was a shidduch between the parents, so it's a t- matching event.

27:19 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

27:20 Speaker 1 So after a year, they got divorced. He never married again, and he was a Hasid, uh... He was, he made Aliyah to his father. His father literally was 99 years old. He was Kibbutz, and then he lived in Bnei Brak, and-

27:34 Speaker 2 Right

27:34 Speaker 1 ... I remember him when I was a bachur I came. He was a teacher there, and he took care of a mikveh. He was a humble-

27:40 Speaker 2 The son

27:40 Speaker 1 ... unassuming man, Rabbi Yeseph. And I'll soon tell you something about him. I'll tell you now. So he once walked into my mother's house and heard the radio. There'll be, uh, whatever she heard classical music, and she says to, he says to my mother, "Scan Zion will, when he will got as that task able to get out of the marriage. We'll get out of the marriage." That's, that's... And who was Rabbi Yeseph? He hasn't, he didn't come much to the Rebbe. And they were talking on the mend. "Kimocher," uh, he was busy with his father, taking care of him.

28:10 Speaker 2 Right.

28:10 Speaker 1 Whatever, I don't know what came-

28:13 Speaker 2 Who, who was talking? Who was talking? The bachurim?

28:15 Speaker 1 The bachurim, yeah. We're talking about his background.

28:17 Speaker 2 Yeah.

28:17 Speaker 1 "Nitas Hamakoser." He's saying as a Hasid, the Benitas Hamakoser to Rebbe.

28:21 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

28:21 Speaker 1 He once came to the Rebbe in Yechidas, and the Rebbe, one of the things the Rebbe asked him, "V'cher hem shich lemter." So he said to the Rebbe, "Vas imach tzuch." Like he was so humble and unassuming that, you know, "Yich lev nahem sche? Vas imach tzuch." Whatever the Rebbe say, Rabbi Mordy was there, "I, I learned." Whatever I have access to, whatever.

28:44 Speaker 2 Yeah.

28:44 Speaker 1 It's not like today, you have a Beis Moshe, whatever.

28:46 Speaker 2 Yeah.

28:47 Speaker 1 And when he went out of Yechidas, the Rebbe said, uh, to label, "Az di gants yorn vos giben Yechidas bizister hotz gleyt not liv dem Yechidas." That's how much nachas he gave the Rebbe.

28:59 Speaker 2 The Rebbe said that?

29:00 Speaker 1 Yeah.

29:00 Speaker 2 Wow.

29:01 Speaker 1 So-

29:03 Speaker 2 Wow

29:03 Speaker 1 ... the, the, the simplicity, and he was a year younger than the Rebbe.

29:07 Speaker 2 Okay, can you say that line again? All the years of Yechidas was what?

29:10 Speaker 1 "Auer yorn ken zin as auer yorn f Yechidas bizister hotz gleyt not liv dem Yechidas."

29:15 Speaker 2 Wow.

29:16 Speaker 1 As that nachas the Rebbe gave Chassidim.

29:17 Speaker 2 Wow.

29:18 Speaker 1 And he, he was only a year younger than the Rebbe.

29:21 Speaker 2 The Rebbe liked simplicity, right?

29:23 Speaker 1 May I say the schleime-

29:23 Speaker 2 Sincerity

29:24 Speaker 1 ... also I comes, yeah. Emes was the ganz pol from Chabad as, uh, Mizuchta Horale Emes. That's what my grandfather, what brings, always.

29:33 Speaker 2 Your grandfather, Peres?

29:34 Speaker 1 Peres. A, a Horale, a, a sheilkes to the Emes.

29:38 Speaker 2 Right.

29:38 Speaker 1 The Rebbe studied Emes, studied his learning to sign Emes. Simplicity on Blitus, Mizuchta, on, uh, uh, the, the trappings and the show-off or-

29:48 Speaker 2 And you say there was a, he was a simple Jew, that's how he lived?

29:53 Speaker 1 He wa- when I knew him, he was a broken Jew. On the one hand, his wife was blind, he was old.

29:58 Speaker 2 A survivor of communism.

30:00 Speaker 1 He was full of physical health, uh, issues.

30:02 Speaker 2 And communism.

30:03 Speaker 1 And, and, and, no, I don't think that, uh. My, he, he, I think he fell from power. He was in Russia when the Rebbe left, the previous Rebbe left. He, Ramnisn, they were the, the, the, the, the leaders. They were the pioneers.

30:17 Speaker 2 Right.

30:17 Speaker 1 They were the, the, the, the educators. They were the Baal HaMeshiach nefesh.

30:20 Speaker 2 Right.

30:21 Speaker 1 And they, uh, when they-

30:22 Speaker 2 They ran the show

30:23 Speaker 1 ... needed money for, for Takchat Mimim, they came to our house and they said, "You're gonna give so much money."

30:27 Speaker 2 Right.

30:28 Speaker 1 "And you're gonna give so much money." And they, they evaluated. They-

30:31 Speaker 2 Right

30:31 Speaker 1 ... and people listened to them to the T.

30:33 Speaker 2 Right.

30:34 Speaker 1 So I think he was in the height of power.

30:36 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

30:36 Speaker 1 And, and when he came here, it was just a, a nobody in a sense. The Rebbe tried to awaken him up, to, to, the Rebbe tried to encourage him to be a mashpia. And, and he actually wrote a letter to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe told him that this is a Nevach Shlevim Kemo. Like, who am I? What am I? And that's what the Rebbe wrote to him, that this is a Nevach Shlevim Kemo. You have to- Step up to the plate and, and start being mashpia and be an inspiration for others.

31:05 Speaker 2 So you had a hard time adjusting to, to, to-

31:08 Speaker 1 All of them. They were-

31:09 Speaker 2 All right

31:09 Speaker 1 ... you know, it was, uh... You know, I, I, one of the things I, I, I, I recognized in my life, I really don't need any inspiration. I, I, I feel my task is to inspire others. I have a fire in me. I have a fire burning in me. And, and-

31:25 Speaker 2 Where do you think that comes from?

31:29 Speaker 1 From the Emes.

31:31 Speaker 2 Okay.

31:31 Speaker 1 And from knowing that I'm here for a purpose, and I, maybe it's coming from my, from f- from-

31:37 Speaker 2 I'm saying, is it, is it something that you feel that you always had since you were a child? Is it something that-

31:42 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh

31:42 Speaker 2 ... that you feel a, a memory of the rebbe that you have? Is it your grandfather? What, what, what do you, where would you trace it?

31:48 Speaker 1 I, there's a, a, a, a Lubavitcher here, a teacher in Lubavitch Yeshiva who's a baal teshuva, and, and he became a baal teshuva from, uh... I met him on Friday before Shabbos on Kingston Avenue, and he came to look in the Jewish neighborhood, and I schlepped him to my grandfather's, to my father's house for Shabbos, him and a friend, and, and, and, um, make a long story short, he became a Lubavitcher.

32:20 Speaker 2 Hmm.

32:20 Speaker 1 He became a chassid. So-

32:23 Speaker 2 Menachem Schneerson is also one of your, your, one of your peers, no?

32:25 Speaker 1 That I, I also met him on the street, yes.

32:28 Speaker 2 See, I'm fa- I live in Philadelphia. I know Menachem very well.

32:30 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. So Menachem, Menachem-

32:32 Speaker 2 You schlepped him in, didn't you?

32:33 Speaker 1 I had a, I had a shabbes to this, yeah. He waited, he, when he got married, he waited in the wedding for me. I didn't know I was so important, but I meant something to them at the time. Um, so this guy sees me, like, four or five years ago, we went to a lucha together, and he, and he says to me, "You know why I'm in Lubavitch?" I says, "I don't know. You saw my grandfather, my father. I don't know." You know, I'm ju- I was just a vilder bakker.

32:57 Speaker 2 Right.

32:58 Speaker 1 He says, "No, no, no, Zevler. I'm here because of you." I said, "What, what's because of me?" He's like, "The, you had a fire in you, and my friends in college didn't have a fire in them."

33:06 Speaker 2 Huh.

33:07 Speaker 1 This is what he said to me.

33:08 Speaker 2 And you f- did you know that at the time, that you felt that you were on fire?

33:12 Speaker 1 I, I, I... Did I know? I was, I was always on fire.

33:15 Speaker 2 Always?

33:15 Speaker 1 I, I, in other words, in other words, uh, um, maybe too much on fire.

33:20 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

33:21 Speaker 1 I took things serious.

33:22 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

33:22 Speaker 1 And it wasn't, nobody cared about it.

33:25 Speaker 2 Like what?

33:25 Speaker 1 I felt-

33:25 Speaker 2 Give me an example.

33:28 Speaker 1 There's so many examples.

33:29 Speaker 2 Yeah, well, start with one. You could go on.

33:31 Speaker 1 No, I, when the rebbe used to sit in shul and there used to be noise, they used to scream and shout. As much as I still, I had a big voice, as much as I still-

33:39 Speaker 2 When the rebbe was talking about farbrengen?

33:40 Speaker 1 No, when the rebbe was sitting there, uh, yontif or Shabbos or-

33:44 Speaker 2 By davening?

33:45 Speaker 1 Yeah.

33:46 Speaker 2 People were talking?

33:47 Speaker 1 Yeah.

33:48 Speaker 2 Right.

33:48 Speaker 1 As much as I still, the rebbe sa- Um, I, I remind myself of a, of a, of a nice story. He's, you know, I'm a Lubavitch. I grew up here. So, so when the rebbe, after the stroke, the first year, they made over there in the Weber Shul, uh, they added a little extension, and the rebbe was there.

34:06 Speaker 2 The balcony.

34:07 Speaker 1 On the, on the balcony. Before the, what, the curtain that they opened. Before that, there was still the windows-

34:13 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

34:13 Speaker 1 ... behind the windows.

34:14 Speaker 2 Yeah.

34:14 Speaker 1 You couldn't see, but we knew that the rebbe was there, that-

34:17 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

34:17 Speaker 1 ... uh, it was, it was Yom Kippur, first time, and all of a sudden, Zalman Garrari, who sat in the front, was sitting in the back. I had a, a seat in the last seat in the last bench and I said-

34:31 Speaker 2 So you were always in the back your whole life, is what you're saying?

34:33 Speaker 1 No, my whole-- When I was a kid, I was.

34:35 Speaker 2 Right.

34:35 Speaker 1 But when I got married already-

34:37 Speaker 2 Yeah

34:37 Speaker 1 ... I, I got a seat in the back, in the last. I have a meshichist that sat next to me, but-

34:41 Speaker 2 Oh, okay

34:41 Speaker 1 ... it was in the back, the last seat.

34:43 Speaker 2 Right.

34:43 Speaker 1 All of a sudden, I'm in the front because the rebbe is, is right here.

34:46 Speaker 2 Right.

34:47 Speaker 1 So, but you couldn't hear the chazzan.

34:49 Speaker 2 Right.

34:50 Speaker 1 So, uh-

34:50 Speaker 2 So the chazzan stayed in the front?

34:52 Speaker 1 In the front. So came, uh, Motzei Yom Kippur, I, I don't know why it came over me. I said, "I gotta say V'raham loud." I was really upset that can't hear the chazzan, 'cause these chazzanim were not adequate enough, and, and I started screaming, "V'raham Hanivra!" Strong. Uh, three days later, Meshe Klein is looking for me. He says to me, "I'm looking for you for three days already, Zevler. I wanna tell you something. The whole time we brought out the rebbe Yom Kippur, he didn't daven. He was just sitting and staring. The moment you said V'raham, the rebbe asked for a siddur, and you can't imagine the, the, the chayas you made to the rebbe-

35:37 Speaker 2 Wow

35:37 Speaker 1 ... on Hazak."

35:38 Speaker 2 Wow.

35:39 Speaker 1 This is the, one of the epitomes of my life. Could be a whole life I live just for this. So after that, I went over to Zevler Katz, and I says, "Put the chazzan in the back." He says to me, he goes, "No, Piarlocker." I says, "I didn't ask you." I said, "I said to you, put the chazzan in the back, and if you don't, I'll go. I'm not asking you."

36:02 Speaker 2 Right.

36:03 Speaker 1 So he put the cha- uh, when you, when you put yourself out there and you say, "I'm gonna go because the Rebbe saying this, I'm gonna go." So I did not, I was looking to be chazzan, but-

36:13 Speaker 2 Right, right

36:13 Speaker 1 ... I, I know I have to put my money where my mouth is.

36:16 Speaker 2 Right.

36:16 Speaker 1 The rebbe is here, put the chazzan here. Hey, Rebbe, wake up. So that's another story.

36:21 Speaker 2 This is after Yom Kippur?

36:22 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Once I heard the story from Meshe Klein.

36:26 Speaker 2 Right, right.

36:27 Speaker 1 So there were times that my, our path crossed-

36:30 Speaker 2 Yeah, so you, you, you had a, you were a passionate guy. But you-

36:33 Speaker 1 I still am.

36:34 Speaker 2 Right. Right, I was saying you always were. But you said also you were a vilder bakker. What, what, how did that, how did that work? Because one of the, one of the things that always comes up is that there's the individual, and there's the system, or call it whatever you want. You call it the yeshiva, call it the community, and when an individual is more expressive, let's say, it, it can come into clash, no? So- What was it like, what was it like for you to be this kind of bachur full of energy? Did you fit into the program? Was it hard to fit in?

37:10 Speaker 1 No.

37:10 Speaker 2 What okay.

37:12 Speaker 1 No, I didn't fit in, and, and I was very discouraged.

37:16 Speaker 2 Okay.

37:16 Speaker 1 My Rosh Yeshiva told me, "Was a zain fdif den dir dorn shpis vaksn." I, I, I'm trying to explain to you that there, in, in, in, in, in, in, in, in our world that we live in-

37:30 Speaker 2 Yeah

37:30 Speaker 1 ... we went through a big shift and a change. What is the shift and change, and what it was before? Before, who, who, who, who, who was the end thing? A couple of other nerds that I thought they were nuts. Half of the stuff you learn, in my opinion, doesn't make any sense.

37:52 Speaker 2 Wait, you thought they were nuts, why? 'Cause they were taking it to, they were like-

37:54 Speaker 1 They were, they were stupid. They were idiots. They were maybe book-smart or, or, or very, uh, one track-minded, and they were very ibir gegebn.

38:04 Speaker 2 Right.

38:04 Speaker 1 And they stat er vabringen and concentrated, and they were able to chaz a libor a couple sichas. But whatever you-- I said, "Ah, dus fashteis nisht dik ovon oygene, nor di fashtei." Like, that's what they meant, meant... Mesh meyn. That's what they made you feel. That, you know, "Ich fashtei dik ovon oygene. Ober du, vos fashteis du? Dus gzak ap overter, gechat ap overter ein."

38:27 Speaker 2 Right.

38:28 Speaker 1 And, um, and therefore, they made you feel like, uh, like, uh, they made me feel like, uh, um... And I wasn't... Look, I was a shtifer. I loved fast cars, and I loved, uh, uh, shtif.

38:44 Speaker 2 You liked the American life?

38:46 Speaker 1 Um, America, yeah. I was, I was exploring.

38:50 Speaker 2 Right.

38:50 Speaker 1 I was growing up.

38:52 Speaker 2 Right.

38:52 Speaker 1 I didn't know anything. We, when we grew up, we didn't have a tape recorder in the house. We didn't have a, a, a, a record player. We didn't have nothing.

39:00 Speaker 2 You had the radio.

39:01 Speaker 1 My mother had a radio.

39:02 Speaker 2 Oh, you didn't listen to it?

39:04 Speaker 1 No. I mean-

39:05 Speaker 2 It was for your mother.

39:06 Speaker 1 Yeah, she had classical music when she put it on. I don't know how much she listened to it.

39:09 Speaker 2 All right.

39:09 Speaker 1 Nothing. But there was nothing in the house.

39:11 Speaker 2 Right.

39:11 Speaker 1 Nothing.

39:12 Speaker 2 So you were-

39:12 Speaker 1 No gashmis, no ruchnis

39:13 Speaker 2 ... so, so you were looking outside.

39:15 Speaker 1 So, no, I was growing up. All of a sudden, there's Walkmans. All of a sudden, there's-

39:20 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

39:20 Speaker 1 ... The Beatles. All of a sudden, there's, there's, uh, cars with air conditioners. There, all of a sudden, there's a fax machine. We grew up in the most exciting time in history that I can say before and after, there was no such exciting time to grow up. We also grew up exciting, not only be gashmis v'ruchnis. Lubavitch was nothing, and it was growing.

39:39 Speaker 2 Right.

39:39 Speaker 1 There was a certain excitement in the air.

39:41 Speaker 2 No question, yeah.

39:41 Speaker 1 By being Mekarev and make... The first Gichas was in my father's house.

39:45 Speaker 2 Yeah.

39:46 Speaker 1 Like two, three, four years. There w- In, in our house was the-

39:49 Speaker 2 It was a very exciting time

39:50 Speaker 1 ... Gichas was a very exciting time.

39:52 Speaker 2 Really.

39:52 Speaker 1 Look, we're Mekarev another Yid and another Yid.

39:54 Speaker 2 Yeah.

39:54 Speaker 1 And then, and that's even before Misitsvil.

39:56 Speaker 2 Right.

39:56 Speaker 1 Just by the students coming in-

39:58 Speaker 2 Right

39:58 Speaker 1 ... and, and just by a, a, a 30, 40. There was, there was a, um... When my grandparents and parents were in Paris, going back to that, the, the Rebbe wrote letters, I saw these letters, "Go wherever you want." They wanted to come to America to the Rebbe. And the Rebbe wrote, "Go wherever you want, a bi kum nisht aher. Go to Is..." The Rebbe spelled it out. "Go to Australia, go to-"

40:21 Speaker 2 The Rebbe or the Friediker Rebbe?

40:23 Speaker 1 Both. I saw a letter from the Friediker Rebbe too, to my grandfather.

40:27 Speaker 2 Right.

40:27 Speaker 1 "Go to Australia, go to New Zealand."

40:28 Speaker 2 Don't come to America.

40:29 Speaker 1 "Go to, uh, uh... Stay in France." Uh, uh, uh, a bi-

40:32 Speaker 2 They explained why? The Rebbe explained why?

40:34 Speaker 1 A bi kum nisht aher.

40:35 Speaker 2 Farvos?

40:37 Speaker 1 Mir kenen nit mit a minyan. That's what the Rebbe said.

40:40 Speaker 2 But, but the Rebbe allowed other people to come.

40:44 Speaker 1 So that's one of the reasons my ba- my grandpa- parents came to Canada, to Montreal. It was not in America.

40:50 Speaker 2 But I'm saying, the Rebbe did let some people come to America.

40:52 Speaker 1 Most people, the Rebbe said, "Go wherever you want, don't come here. Go in the sakedish, go wherever you want, don't come here."

40:58 Speaker 2 Hmm.

40:58 Speaker 1 The Rebbe tamog iz a mir kenen nit mit a minyan.

41:02 Speaker 2 Right.

41:02 Speaker 1 In other words, the Rebbe saw, had a vision, and, and the Hasidim weren't yet digesting it-

41:11 Speaker 2 Right

41:11 Speaker 1 ... that I'm gonna build up the whole world.

41:14 Speaker 2 Right.

41:14 Speaker 1 And the, and the Hasidim didn't see it. They figured, "Mi kumt tsu broche, ne kum in dom, in, mit machne a yeshiva, mit machne a, a shul."

41:21 Speaker 2 So you felt a little bit constrained by, by the yeshiva when you were growing up. You felt you wanted to explode, or you wanted to, you wanted to move.

41:29 Speaker 1 It, it, it was c- it was very boring.

41:31 Speaker 2 Claustrophobic.

41:32 Speaker 1 Claustrophobic.

41:33 Speaker 2 Right.

41:34 Speaker 1 Right? It was very, uh, uh, uh, um, uh, uh, limited by nature.

41:41 Speaker 2 Right.

41:42 Speaker 1 And, and-

41:42 Speaker 2 Oh, especially if you're, if you're full of energy

41:44 Speaker 1 ... in those days, the teachers-

41:44 Speaker 2 If you're full of energy and, uh-

41:45 Speaker 1 And, and, and those days, the teachers, most of the teachers were... Who was my teacher? I was eight years in the highest class in Ohel Torah. In other words, there wasn't a higher class than us.

41:56 Speaker 2 Well, Ohel Torah was just beginning then, then.

41:58 Speaker 1 Right.

41:58 Speaker 2 It was a small little cheder in Brookl-

42:00 Speaker 1 So there was, before us, two classes

42:01 Speaker 2 ... Brookl's little cheder, yeah.

42:02 Speaker 1 Yeah. And then every year, they added a teacher.

42:06 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

42:06 Speaker 1 But not one teacher. Every year, we had six teachers, because one flunky and another flunky. And, and one loser and another loser. They couldn't find a job. Bechol schlept in the, you know, BM Lamed.

42:16 Speaker 2 So you're from the erst Ohel Torah niks, is what you're saying.

42:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. For eight years, I was the highest class.

42:21 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

42:22 Speaker 1 And I left Ohel Torah when I was about 13, 14.

42:26 Speaker 2 So, so let me ask you a question. So you're, it, it, it makes a lot of sense to me. You're, you're, you're a, you're a young boy, a bachur, full of a lot of energy. Personality-wise, you're full of a lot of energy, and for a boy like that to be in a school, especially if the school's chaotic, is a disaster. It's a total disaster. Did you... A- and you already, you already expressed that you had some resentment towards the, the teachers and the, the magids shiur and the Rosh Yeshivas. How did that, how did you... Did that extend towards the Rebbe, or did, h- how did, like, did, did you ever, like, say, "This whole Lubavitch thing is pissing me off. I want out"?

43:04 Speaker 1 No. No, no, not at all.

43:07 Speaker 2 Why not? I mean, it's a-

43:09 Speaker 1 There's one thing what you're taught, it's like the Torah. The Torah teaches you stuff, and you say, "Hey, this guy, look what, look what he's like." All the friars say that.

43:18 Speaker 2 Right.

43:18 Speaker 1 "Look what this guy is... He's supposed to be better."

43:21 Speaker 2 Right.

43:21 Speaker 1 The fact that he's not behaving better and he, he, he, he, he thinks he represents the Torah, well, guess what? He, it's not like that.

43:29 Speaker 2 Right.

43:30 Speaker 1 Um, the, the, the Chassidus is pure and holy. Uh, Torah, mitzvahs are pure and holy. Uh, the people teaching it to you are, are, are, aren- uh, they're supposed to be, but they're not.

43:42 Speaker 2 S- but how do you, how are you matzliach to make that distinction? Because it's very hard for, when, when, when you are so, uh, hurt or scarred by, by the system, let's say, and I hate the word system-

43:53 Speaker 1 I never said I'm so hurt or scarred.

43:54 Speaker 2 No, no, but-

43:54 Speaker 1 I said I'm aware of it.

43:56 Speaker 2 No, you said, you said they, they, they... You said it lingered with you, the words that they told you, that you're never gonna-

44:00 Speaker 1 There are difficulties in life.

44:02 Speaker 2 Right. Right, but when you're a young man, right?

44:04 Speaker 1 Nobody else wanted me either. You think the, the Satmars wanted me? The Misnagdim wanted me?

44:08 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

44:08 Speaker 1 You think the Goan wanted me? Nobody wanted me.

44:10 Speaker 2 So who wanted you?

44:12 Speaker 1 Who wanted me? The only one who ever wanted me is my wife. She came around by, she was my sister friend.

44:18 Speaker 2 God bless.

44:18 Speaker 1 And, and, and she came into the house and, and she looked at me, she fell in love with me. And my father said to me, "Yossel" "A meidel gezunt, grab her, chaf it." And I did. It, it's funny, but yeah, what, what... You know, at the end of the day-

44:33 Speaker 2 Did you, did you ever ask the Rebbe about this?

44:36 Speaker 1 Yeah.

44:36 Speaker 2 Okay, so let- let's hear about that. What, what was that about?

44:39 Speaker 1 So here, here-

44:39 Speaker 2 Because there are a lot of people today, there are a lot of people today who, and I think it makes sense, that they get upset for whatever reason at the yeshiva, and then they get upset at the whole thing. You split it. What was, what did you ask the Rebbe about this?

44:52 Speaker 1 So it was, my brother was 13 years old. Those years, you still went into Yechidus with the whole family.

44:59 Speaker 2 With your parents?

45:00 Speaker 1 With my parents and the whole family went in.

45:01 Speaker 2 For bar mitzvah?

45:02 Speaker 1 For bar mitzvah.

45:03 Speaker 2 So the whole family would go into bar, bar mitzvah bachur. And the sisters also?

45:07 Speaker 1 Yeah, everybody.

45:08 Speaker 2 Okay.

45:08 Speaker 1 And I had, uh, an episode that happened to me. Uh, my mashpia in Montreal, actually, I went, I was called a Shliach Bochur, and went to Montreal. They, we went, I was like, uh, 18, 18, 19 years old.

45:24 Speaker 2 Right.

45:25 Speaker 1 We go, we went al shlichus. So we were the bochurim there in yeshiva. So, uh, Yichmeh Agrari comes to me, it was before, uh, Pesach. Says to me, "Don't come back after Yonsef because, uh, somebody told me you're going to the movies. And, uh, if, if we find out that, uh, it's true, uh, we're gonna throw you out. So better now you could go without being thrown out." And I was devastated. That, that's a, that's a death, uh, sentence to me because once I'm not in yeshiva, nobody will take me, and I go out to work and I always, uh, got, always frum guy to... So I wrote a letter to the Rebbe that was three pages long, and I was gonna condense it and-

46:14 Speaker 2 You, you, you, you, you were upset that he wasn't a per-

46:16 Speaker 1 I was crying and I, I wasn't-

46:17 Speaker 2 You were upset for yourself. You weren't upset about him.

46:19 Speaker 1 No, for myself.

46:20 Speaker 2 Right.

46:21 Speaker 1 And, and what is this?

46:23 Speaker 2 Right.

46:23 Speaker 1 What kind of... It wasn't just for myself. What is this? So I wrote to the Rebbe, "First of all, I didn't go. But even if I did, is that-"

46:32 Speaker 2 You didn't go?

46:33 Speaker 1 No. So I said, "And even if I went, is that reason to throw me out?"

46:38 Speaker 2 'Cause I went to movie theater.

46:39 Speaker 1 Yeah.

46:39 Speaker 2 Yeah.

46:41 Speaker 1 So I thought, so then I was gonna condense the letter. And I wrote it with all my emotions and with all details. I was gonna condense it, then I said, "No, this is too good. The Rebbe has to know." You have to tell the Rebbe the truth. And, uh, you have to tell your Rebbe your maalos, your chassdenus. And I wrote a long, and I gave the Rebbe, I took the letter in with me on that Yechidus to give him the letter.

47:05 Speaker 2 Was this the most personal you had ever been with the Rebbe up to this point?

47:10 Speaker 1 Yeah, I think it was the only time in s- in such a content.

47:14 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

47:14 Speaker 1 So, uh, m- after the Yechidus, and the Rebbe spoke to my father in Russian, so we shouldn't, shouldn't understand. My father and mother spoke Russian. We didn't speak Russian.

47:23 Speaker 2 Right.

47:24 Speaker 1 And then my father says to me, "Nu," like, "You have a letter, give it to the Rebbe." So I make to my father, "Nu," like, "Go out." So my father and the whole family went out, and I remained there.

47:37 Speaker 2 Huh.

47:37 Speaker 1 And I give the Rebbe the letter.

47:39 Speaker 2 Your father had any idea what you were writing about?

47:41 Speaker 1 No.

47:41 Speaker 2 He just understood that you had something private to talk about.

47:44 Speaker 1 Yeah. I tell you what happens.

47:45 Speaker 2 Okay, okay, I'm just trying to understand.

47:46 Speaker 1 So, so, so, um, I gave the Rebbe my letter, and the Rebbe takes it out, and he read it with the glasses, without the glasses. He marked it. He, he took it so serious. And w-

48:01 Speaker 2 Read the whole letter in front of you?

48:02 Speaker 1 In front of me, and he, and he, and it-- Not just read it. With the glasses, without the glasses.

48:08 Speaker 2 A few minutes.

48:09 Speaker 1 Took a pencil, he was marking it.

48:10 Speaker 2 A few minutes.

48:12 Speaker 1 I was there 20 minutes in Yechidus myself.

48:13 Speaker 2 No, but just reading the letter, he just-

48:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It didn't just go like that.

48:16 Speaker 2 Right.

48:17 Speaker 1 No, no, no. This was... Okay. And then the Rebbe says to me like this. "B'shaaz," the Rebbe, the Shveh's father, "Meyaseg ven timcheh nimim, otos meyaseg v'chan chatchilah. Zol zein tzvey mashpiim oder mehr. As dor tzvey mashpiim oder mehr, bal tzifran kamot deis im bochurim, iz az tzifran tzvey mashpiim, v'frat es dor mehr, ifran in einem fun ze a tzat ma vos men ken zikh mit em tzusamen redn. Zost zi zein tzusamen redn zikh mit einem fun ze. Der Rebbeshte zol dir helfen tsu treffen tsum richtign, un zost nit springen fun einem tzum zweyten. Leyg avek dayn sekhel af a zayt. Forget afn over. Azei vi du lernst in a Chassidishe yeshiva, a Chossid tut mit kabbalah sol. Du shreibst, un du zogst, du lernst, du dorst, un my good side, my bad. Dayn inyan iz ton. Un at du vest ton vet b'meila onkomen gute gerisn. Zol zitstn in horev un lernen. Yogay tu matzos ha'taymin. Uka'amor yagiya b'niglei Torah un Chassidus." The Rebbe repeated it three times, "Uka'amor, Zol zitstn in horev un lernen. Un at du vest ton vet b'meila onkomen gute gerisn." That was the Yechidus-

49:45 Speaker 2 Can you say-

49:46 Speaker 1 That I can say in public

49:47 Speaker 2 ... can you say in English what-

49:48 Speaker 1 Yeah

49:48 Speaker 2 ... what, what, what that means?

49:49 Speaker 1 It's, it's, it's, when the Rebbe Rashab, the Rebbe, the Shveh's father, the Rebbe, the Shveh's father-

49:54 Speaker 2 Right, the Frierdiker Rebbe's father

49:55 Speaker 1 ... created Timcheh Nimim, that's the Rebbe Rashab.

49:58 Speaker 2 Right.

49:58 Speaker 1 He created it, l'chatchilah, to begin with, there should be two mashpiyim, two mentors.

50:06 Speaker 2 Right.

50:09 Speaker 1 As, as, there's many bochurim, many chemistries, in my opinion. To, to... There's many dif-different-

50:17 Speaker 2 Personalities

50:18 Speaker 1 ... personalities. So if there's more than one per, uh, mas- personality as a mashpia, you could find in one of them a tzad ma, a certain angle that you could have a meeting of the minds.

50:31 Speaker 2 Right.

50:31 Speaker 1 B'frat, when there's more than two mashpiyim-

50:34 Speaker 2 Right

50:34 Speaker 1 ... you should find a mashpia. The Aibishter should help you. You need a berakhah. Should f- help you to find the right one. But once you give yourself over, carry through with it. Shouldn't jump from one to the other.

50:48 Speaker 2 Ah, very interesting.

50:49 Speaker 1 Then the Rebbe said to me like this: "Put your sechel on the side." That means I have sechel, I'm smart, but don't use your sechel. Um, forget af nor'a, forget about the past. That is... I remember when I stood there, the Rebbe wiped out my past.

51:09 Speaker 2 Hmm.

51:10 Speaker 1 And I'll tell you soon what it means to a bachur. I'll so tell you s-

51:15 Speaker 2 Oh, which past?

51:15 Speaker 1 I could tell you now.

51:16 Speaker 2 Yeah, tell me now.

51:17 Speaker 1 A bachur has a very short fuse by nature.

51:20 Speaker 2 Right.

51:21 Speaker 1 A yungerman has a very long fuse. Why? When you get married, im oseh v'itliya takes a lifetime. You gotta get married, you need shalom bayis, you need to make parnasah, you need to have children. Until you... They, they don't run out off their, o-o-off their pnas. And until you marry them off, until they, they, they're stabilized, that could take o-o-ish un a 50 years.

51:45 Speaker 2 Right.

51:46 Speaker 1 So by nature, to build a business and to build a family and to-

51:50 Speaker 2 Right

51:50 Speaker 1 ... you, you can't get excited. Like you say, you have a fight, or you can't get excited. You learn to, uh-

51:55 Speaker 2 Right

51:55 Speaker 1 ... hold back from all the setbacks and, and difficulties. A bachur, if he's good, he thinks there's nobody better than me. I know it all.

52:03 Speaker 2 Right.

52:03 Speaker 1 You know, they usually, "I know already." Yeah, every time you learn this... I'll, I'll tell you something interesting to veer off for just a moment. I was sitting three, three f- weeks ago in, in the country with Dovid Feldman, and I told him a vort I learned in the Mayim Rabbeim. And he says to me, "Which Mayim Rabbeim did you see this vort?" And I'm thinking to myself, he's a chozer. He wrote the Rebbe Sefer Mayim Rabbeim.

52:26 Speaker 2 Right.

52:26 Speaker 1 And he's asking me which Mayim Rabbeim did I see it from the Rebbe. So I said to him, "Last week, I, I, the, I learned one Mayim Rabbeim. Every single day, the same Mayim Rabbeim, five times. I decided that this week I'm gonna learn the same Mayim Rabbeim. It's a Mayim Rabbeim that grabbed me, and I learned it five times every day. I learn other Mayim Rabbeim, but I, I have mandatory that every day I have to learn a Mayim Rabbeim from the Rebbe. That's-

52:50 Speaker 2 Hmm

52:50 Speaker 1 ... 'cause I'm the Rebbe's Hasid. I learn other Mayim Rabbeim from other Abeim, but that's, to me, uh, uh, mandatory. So I learned the Mayim Rabbeim from the Rebbe five times, and on the fifth time, I saw this vort.

53:01 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

53:02 Speaker 1 He says to me, "I got it." You know, sometimes you say a good vort, "Oh, where'd you see it? Which Mayim Rabbeim?" What do you mean where did I see it? I saw it after learning it five times. Learning it a little bit, that's when I saw the vort.

53:13 Speaker 2 Right.

53:13 Speaker 1 There's deeper and deeper and more depth and more depth.

53:16 Speaker 2 Do you wanna share the vort now, or?

53:18 Speaker 1 So, so no.

53:19 Speaker 2 You don't wanna-

53:20 Speaker 1 I have to remind myself. I, I have-

53:21 Speaker 2 Okay

53:21 Speaker 1 ... a lot of ekhteh to say, but-

53:23 Speaker 2 Okay

53:23 Speaker 1 ... as mine is... So, so it was a Mayim Rabbeim hoyz ti men mishpachah tepodah, and I will soon get to it.

53:29 Speaker 2 Okay.

53:30 Speaker 1 But, um, so... And that I think is, is, is... So, so when the Rebbe said to me, then the Rebbe said to me-

53:39 Speaker 2 So one second, you were getting back to that a bachur has a short fuse and a yungerman has a long fuse.

53:43 Speaker 1 Right. It's called, in, in Tanya it's called derech haruch v'hachzoroh.

53:47 Speaker 2 Okay.

53:48 Speaker 1 A derech haruch v'chzoroh is not just in, in, in, in, in, in, uh, in, in, in, in Ta- the Rebe- the, the Alter Rebbe teaches you in, in, in your learning today is, has an effect on you today, and then there's the long run. Your learning, uh, it, it, it has a roundabout effect on you in the long run. Derech haruch v'chzoroh is in business, too. That's the long, short fuse and the long fuse.

54:11 Speaker 2 Right.

54:11 Speaker 1 Derech haruch v'chzoroh is in business. The same thing.

54:13 Speaker 2 Right.

54:14 Speaker 1 You build a business. Sometimes in, in, in the... When I went into business on my own, the first three months I made $130,000, then it took me another year to make another $130,000.

54:24 Speaker 2 Right.

54:24 Speaker 1 It takes time to build up. I was lucky the first three months, it gave me a cushion, a very good-

54:29 Speaker 2 Right

54:29 Speaker 1 ... startup. But, so there's derech haruch v'chzoroh in everything.

54:33 Speaker 2 Right.

54:34 Speaker 1 Th- that's one of the lessons one has to know, a bachur has to know.

54:38 Speaker 2 Right.

54:39 Speaker 1 That you have to know what's your nature, you have to know what's the, the big picture and, and... Anyway, so let me finish with the Yechidas. So the Rebbe said-

54:50 Speaker 2 So what you're saying, f- forget s'ovah. You said you forgot the ovah. What did that mean?

54:54 Speaker 1 I, I remembered the Rebe- So, so that's what I was saying. If, if, if I wrote to the Rebbe all my ma'alos and all my chassdonos. So I have a friend, the Rebbe told him, "Write to me once a month." Me, in effect, the Rebbe said, "Don't write to me. Don't make any sachako, don't make chassdis, don't make a, don't build yourself a picture in your head. You just do. You're a kabbalah soul. Your trumas hanefesh is just go out there and do, regardless of what you feel, regardless of what you understand, because you'll never make sense out of it anyway."

55:28 Speaker 2 Hmm.

55:28 Speaker 1 In my opinion. It doesn't make sense to me till today. Half the stuff I do doesn't make sense.

55:33 Speaker 2 So you j- you just go with instinct, what you-

55:35 Speaker 1 A lot. Some things make sense. Some things you see there's -

55:38 Speaker 2 Right

55:38 Speaker 1 ... when you see it.

55:39 Speaker 2 Right.

55:40 Speaker 1 But most of the stuff doesn't make sense to me.

55:42 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

55:42 Speaker 1 If you asked me, I wouldn't do things I do because I-

55:46 Speaker 2 Right. Well-

55:46 Speaker 1 It doesn't come natural to me.

55:47 Speaker 2 What did it mean to you when the Rebbe, like, took your letter so seriously and spoke to you like that?

55:52 Speaker 1 One second, let me finish the-

55:53 Speaker 2 Okay.

55:54 Speaker 1 So, uh, uh, uh, forget s'ov nor'a.

55:57 Speaker 2 Okay.

55:57 Speaker 1 "Az ze vie dilernzt nay shver zhe a ch- chosid ikarbo, un du vestand vet bemeilom koma gott gehn." So that goes all in the line of- Do your thing.

56:08 Speaker 2 Action first.

56:09 Speaker 1 Action first, then you'll be

56:10 Speaker 2 Right.

56:11 Speaker 1 But then the Rebbe says, "Well, it's in the heart of an learning." And I realized later that this was the Rebbe's answer on everything. When images it in the heart of it in learning, certain is the losers.

56:23 Speaker 2 Right.

56:23 Speaker 1 Certain is the, the setbacks, 'cause everyone

56:28 Speaker 2 Right

56:29 Speaker 1 But when somebody has d- d- doesn't learn, and the heart of it is in learning, then he starts to look around, and he sees all the

56:37 Speaker 2 Yes

56:37 Speaker 1 ... around. Yeshiva is no good, my friend is no good, the rosh yeshiva is no good. That's no good, that's no good. That's the problem for most of the kids. I need the ambiance, the atmosphere, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, this yeshiva, she's going to Hashtot, and this guy is going to Milwaukee, and this guy is going to Yerupit. What's the matter with them? Sit in the heart of it in learning. Your guide to

57:00 Speaker 2 You got to

57:02 Speaker 1 That's the answer to everything.

57:04 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

57:04 Speaker 1 If you put in all you got, all your effort, you

57:09 Speaker 2 Right

57:09 Speaker 1 ... it again and again. You internalize it again and again.

57:12 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

57:12 Speaker 1 You

57:13 Speaker 2 Right

57:15 Speaker 1 ... it's gonna make something out of you.

57:17 Speaker 2 Did, did it change for you? Did it change for you that, um, that suddenly, um, you're able to learn? You... Did it change your experience in yeshiva after?

57:25 Speaker 1 There was something else that changed me also once for a couple weeks. What happened, it's interesting-

57:30 Speaker 2 No, but I'm saying this particular story.

57:32 Speaker 1 I'll answer your question-

57:33 Speaker 2 Okay

57:33 Speaker 1 ... with another story.

57:34 Speaker 2 With another story, okay.

57:36 Speaker 1 I was sitting Thursday night. We us- when younger years, we s- I sit in the