Chinuch in Halacha Q&A with Rabbi Braun

00:00 Speaker 1 Hi, I'm Zalman Schner. Welcome to the Everything Chinuch Podcast, brought to you by the Menachem Education Foundation. Here, you'll find fabrangins, workshops, live interviews, and more, all to inspire you, the Chabad educator. We hope you enjoy today's episode.

00:20 Speaker 2 To the maaser question. I wanna just mention the basic principles of maaser, and based on that, you'll understand, you'll be able to apply to most of the questions. The rule is that maaser is officially supposed to go to anim. The minhag is that we use maaser also for share mitzvahs. So bechal if you have a priority, you should rather give it to anim than for anything else. But there is room, according to our posekim at least, to give it for share mitzvahs. But those mitzvahs have to be mitzvahs that are reshus, not chovah. Meaning anything which is an obli-obligatory thing that you have to do, you can't give maaser for that. If there's something which is institutionally, culturally considered obligatory, the lashon haChida, laz habriyus. If you're not gonna do it, everybody's gonna say, "Are you talking? This guy doesn't do this." You have to give end-of-year gift to the menahl. If you don't give end-of-year gift to the menahl, you're considered an outcast in your maaser to the melamed. That's something which is also called a chovah, even if it's technically not a chovah. Another example of a chovah is if you already made a commitment in your mind without thinking of maaser. So let's say any of these things are considered legitimate causes of maaser, but you decided originally, "I'm going to take out of my pocket for end-of-year class trip, and I'm gonna pay five hundred dollars." Then you say, "Hey, there's a loophole. Why don't I use maaser?" You can use

01:30 Speaker 2 maaser to cover that 'cause now you're obligated already to give five hundred dollars as tzedakah, and you can use maaser to cover your obligations. So otherwise, go back to the actual question. You're allowed to use maaser f-for, if you're allowed to use maaser for any mitzvah that you're not mechuyav, and certainly mitzvah of talmud Torah and Chinuch Bnei Yisroel, the whole world exists in help of nekosh habes rabin, and it's not stama mitzvah serchet siber. So you're allowed to even use sometimes kaspe tzedakah for that, and certainly kaspe maaser, which is a lower level than kaspe tzedakah. So for end-of-year trip, it's not a chovah to do. And if it's an end-of-year trip, but you're not doing just 'cause you wanna have fun, because you know this is an educational experience for the students, that wouldn't be a problem. For, same with class prizes, same with video cameras in a school. I don't know exactly what they mean about video cameras in the school, installing video cameras. You meant some comment, something about without consent. That's a separate issue, a legal issue if you can have video cameras and people don't know that they're being vid-- I don't know exactly what you meant over there. We, there was a particular question about training for this kinus, training like this kinus. Are you allowed to use maaser money for that? So I wanna talk about that specifically. If you, if there, if there's a benefit that you're getting, a personal benefit out of something, and you're

02:40 Speaker 2 taking home something with you. Let, let, let me give you an example. You wanna buy a nice, beautiful esrog. You're not mechuyav to buy a nice, beautiful esrog. You're allowed to buy it, you wanna buy it, you can buy a regular esrog. So for your regular esrog, you can use maaser. What about to get a nice, fancy esrog? And this is like pasul because maybe you're mechuyav in hider mitzvah. But let's argue that you're not mechuyav. But there's a different problem, the esrog is staying yours. There's an item that became yours. You can't take maaser to pay for yourself. But here we're talking about something, you're not walking home with an item. You're going to an event, a training event. So if you're going to training to be a chazan, of course you can use maaser for that. Because the training is you, you should get a better job, and you should be able to do a beautiful job. You could use, however, there's something else which is not maaser, which is called as an expense to deduct. There's two things. There's using maaser for mitzvahs, and there's ex-- business expenses. So for you to be a chazan, the cost you to be a chazan, the cost you training, voice lessons, uh, and a million other things that you have to do. And you need to wear one of those special caps that chazzanim wear. That costs you money also to be a chazan. And maybe in your job as a melamed, they ask you,

03:46 Speaker 2 you'd have to wear a kapota, not a short jacket, because you learn some ungarish meisit. So that's a business expense. You could deduct it from your business expenses, and then for maaser ends up being less. But to take it as maaser for a mitzvah, the question is, do we count this as a mitzvah? So benson is a big hilich over here, between a teacher training session and a kinus hamachanchim. And I'll explain to what I mean. If you would ask me, "I wanna go to a teacher training session. I wanna become a better teacher." I'm going to a session to train. That's, has nothing to do with, with a mitzvah. You're doing this in order to get a better job, to perform better at your job. So it's a business expense. A kinus hamachanchim, I refer to more like a fabrengen. It's a get-together for machanchim to inspire them a chinuch. Are you allowed to use maaser for a fabrengen? You're allowed to use maaser for share mitzvahs. In order to do this mitzvah called fabrengen, you'd have some food over there. You're allowed to use maaser for that also. Are you allowed to buy davka all different types of sushi and all different types of pizza and say it var Torah for a minute? Obviously not. But whatever is needed for the fabrengen, yeah, you're allowed to use maaser. Kinus hamachanchim is like a regular kind of, so it's a chinuch expense. It wouldn't be a problem. Wanna go ahead?

04:47 Speaker 1 Okay. Um, don't mess with our sushi rabbi either. Okay. Um, it's not working. Uh, next question is again a maaser question. Can tuition be paid for with maaser? Uh, this machanich said you're asking for a very steep discount in this tuition, so essentially the school will actually be losing because of it. We'll have to ask for donations. So, um, I'm not quite sure where that problem is.

05:07 Speaker 2 What he's saying is that if I'm gonna tell him that he can't use maaser, he's warning me, Rabbi, you tell me I won't use maaser, you know what's gonna happen. The school is gonna have to lose money anyhow because I'm either, uh, the, the school is gonna have to give me a major, major discount. The school is gonna lose money. They're gonna have to ask for donations to make it up. You might as well say you're allowed to give maaser. That's basically what he's saying. So let, let's go through the answer to this question. The halacha is that kol mezaneos shel adam k'tsuv-- the Gemara says, kol mezaneos shel adam k'tsuv lamir shoshana ve'ad yom kippurim. In the beginning of the year, it was determined everybody in this room, how much salary you're gonna make next year. Every, every one of your expenses, everything's been thought out. The only thing-- A-and therefore, they should decide that this year you're going to make a two hundred thousand dollar a year salary, halavai, if you're a melamed, that's the way it should be. And you, you have-- Sorry? I, I must that.

06:00 Speaker 1 Is that the psak? Psak din?

06:02 Speaker 2 No, the psak could be much more. So a-actually one of the questions on the bottom is about salaries and raises for teachers. I'm not sure if we're gonna get to it. That should be at the top. I leave the be-

06:17 Speaker 3 We can have follow-up questions on this one.

06:18 Speaker 2 We leave the best for the last. So if Davush should decide you're going to make two hundred thousand dollars a year, and you spend the money now to buy a new iPhone, and the next new iThing, and again new iPhone, the Gemara says, in Pich is Pich Suloy, uh, you, you take off your Cheshbon. So you only have less money for ketchup and for peanut butter 'cause you took it off on something else. There's an exception to that rule, Hotzo Shabbos Ayontov. If you wanna spend for Shabbos Ayontov and get sushi like you mentioned, and all the good Azachen, Im Hotzeph Mesiph and Loy, whatever you're spending for Shabbos Ayontov, Hakol baCheshbon. Don't worry, it's not coming off your salary. The other exception is Hotzo is Bon of L'Talmud Torah. Paying money for Chinuch doesn't come off your Cheshbon. So first of all, the question is a foolish question because if you believe in Davushtar, why do you have to take meister? You could spend two hundred thousand dollars a year for, for tuition. Davushtar's gonna give you back the money. So I'm assuming the question is coming from a lack of Bitachan or from, uh, Ichal Nachash Dark, and my wife is not up to it. Blame the wife. But from the principle, the Daltai Rebbe says on this question, if you don't count your meister, Haree says, "Zores Veniske." Zores, it submits this, you're, you're, you're on the right track, and you're gonna end up gaining 'cause you keep all your salary plus

07:38 Speaker 2 all the money that, that you have to pay for tuition. Davushtar's giving you-- He has a separate account called tuition account, and it keeps on refilling it. The meisters believe in this Gemara for sure. Ha. So, but Hoy am im a person, the Gemara didn't yet register by you, except the wife is not-- The Rebbe always says, "When you blame the wife, you mean yourself." So you're allowed to use meister, first of all, if you can't, if you can't, you don't have enough money from your own money. If you can afford it, there's no, there's no Halacha you're allowed to use, you're allowed to use meister regarding Talmud Torah. Only Hotzo is Bon of Hagdolim. This is straightforward in Alter Rebbe's Shechinach. You don't need to go and ask the Rav. Hilchas Talmud Torah, Alter Rebbe's Shechinach, straightforward. The Alter Rebbe says you can only use it for older kids. Older kids, the Alter Rebbe doesn't define what he means, but according to many Poskim, Pasht, Chad, Lechud, he means six and up. Why six and up? Because of Pia Halacha, you're machliv to support all your children under six. Over six is considered Tzedakah. So now, this is Tzedakah, supporting needs of children over six. It's not an o-obligation. And here comes the catch. The Alter Rebbe says you're only allowed to use tuition for Hotzo es Halimut v'lo Halimut atzmo. What does that mean? For the actual tuition, for the teaching expenses, you can use meister 'cause that's a Chiyuv. You're machliv to

08:54 Speaker 2 mechanech your kids. Either you do it yourself, or you get a lama to do it, like the famous Hayom Yom, I'm s-switching mitzvahs with you. So you're machliv. How can you use meister for something you're machliv to? But you're not machliv to pay for the school lunches. You're not machliv to pay for the dorming. If I would have my kid at home and not in dormitory, it would cost me much cheaper. The school has these extra overheads, and I have to pay for the janitors, and I have to pay for the transportation, all these extra things. All those extra things we call Hotzo es Halimut v'lo Halimut atzmo. That can use for meister. The problem is that when you get your bill from your meister, it doesn't say, it doesn't have a, an accounting, Hotzo es Halimut, Limut atzmo. So you need to go to your meister and tell him, "I want you to give me a breakdown 'cause I want to be able to use meister money for it." So Hotzo is when you're allowed to use meister. Go ahead.

09:43 Speaker 3 All right, next, uh, set of questions, and we'll, we'll do all the questions if that's okay. And then, because they're, they're all the same idea about, uh, Chinuch HaTorah ve-HaKodesh. First question, and the general question is the Rebbe's attitude towards learning Limudei Chayil. Uh, knowing that some places the Rebbe supported and some he didn't. Second question, this is regarding Ibris, learning Ivrit. Uh, is it considered Limudei HaKodesh or, and what is the gedar there? And then what about, uh, if you have a two-track system, uh, regarding an ashkit learning going to, uh, Limudei Chayil instead of Kodesh, and also using, uh, Limud HaTorah ve-HaKodesh without using precious materials to learn Chayil, meaning using, uh, using, uh, Chumash Taich for spelling and, uh, the, the kind of thing. And the last one, uh, with regard to, uh, general thing, learning general studies in today's Jewish education through the lens of Torah and pursuit of, uh, personal talent in general and self-expression. I'm not quite sure what the question is there, but, uh, the gen-generally the attitude of, of, uh, the gedar of, uh, how far it goes with regard to, um, um, using Torah as part of guiding-

10:46 Speaker 2 Okay

10:46 Speaker 3 ... education, I think.

10:47 Speaker 2 Whenever we don't know the questions, we make it up. Okay. Um, so we're talking here about, about Limudei Chayil. So first we have to make a Hagdama klalis. There's something called Limudei Masudim. That's nothing with Limudei Chayil. And some Limudei Chayil today are asar parashat al pi Shechinach. So we have to make a clarification. Everything we're going to be talking about Limudei Chayil, it means only if it's not asar al pi Shechinach. If it has anything which is associated with minis, apokorsos, avodah zarah, gilara'ei, shechir adam, olei sesuru, any of those kind of things, it's asar parashat al pi din. Like someone once wrote to the Rebbe a question if you're allowed to read newspapers. So besides for the Beetle Train and all that, the Rebbe wrote that a lot of things in newspapers that are parashat asar al pi din. A letter of the Rebbe, Neguez Kodesh. So I'm talking only the non, the klipes noige aspect of Limudei Chayil, not the sholsh klipes hatameis aspect. And it's very hard. Today's day and age, it's so intertwined, and it's very hard to be berur, oychon, mitech psolis. They're both psolis. Let me rephrase it. Be berur the psolis of klipes noige from the psolis of sholsh klipes hatameis. And to know, especially as the curriculums in the educational department are becoming more and more advanced b'lshonim and more regressing b'lshoneinu, and including much more yanama hasidim. So that's just, um, but obviously chayil, the, the, the added of chayil towards kodesh is we have

12:00 Speaker 2 the Rebbe uses the shlashin, and we have the shlashin already in the Rama, Me'egereh sa Rama. We have gvirta, and we have tzarasa. We have our wife, and we have the, the shivcha. So we don't replace our wives with our cleaning lady And if the cleaning lady, she does cleaning, fine. But we, the Rebbe's "" is better. So if we need to have a cleaning lady, okay, we need to have a tzadus in the house. But the "" will you allow the shivcha, the maidservant to take over the housewife? The general principle is there are a few exceptions where the Rebbe allowed lamudei chol. But I'll, I'll, I'm gonna make a that the Rebbe writes in a letter. When you get to lamudei chol, I am not an expert, the Rebbe says, even though we know that the Rebbe approved lamudei chol. If you, if you look at the history, you'll see that the lamudei chol person in Lubavitch was the Rebbe. The lamudei kodesh person was the Rebbe. The Rebbe carried the lamudei chol. Rebbe was the one that started all the lamudei chol mosdos, and the Rebbe started all the lamudei kodesh mosdos. It's not only halachah, it's, it's a history. The Rebbe wrote a very cover-- uh, controversial, revolutionary letter that is not especially if you're starting lamudei kodesh mosdos and even until now there was only lam-- there was lamudei chol. It's, it's a cav that the Rebbe pushed very strongly. The Rebbe writes in a letter, "" I am not

13:34 Speaker 2 an expert to know exactly how the haskamah of the Rabbeim happened. The Rebbe's saying there was some type of haskamah, but I'm not sure. It's, it's obviously a very, very interesting way. I, I don't think the Rebbe means that he's not bakki. The Rebbe is trying to be diplomatically correct over here because he's taking a move away from the Rebbe. I'm not sure exactly what kind of this was and whether this came with. There was a haskamah or was. And the Rebbe says, you know, al pikchu sderis, hislapshus means something totally differently. Sometimes the Rebbe gives an answer, it's like, okay, next. And sometimes it is. So the Rebbe-- I'm not sure exactly how this lamudei chol works. The Rebbe's attitude to lamudei chol is that if it's, number one, if it's what we call you've seen a lot of the Rebbe's letters, legally required. Legally required. Okay, what can we do? It's, it's a legal requirement. Not everybody's capable to, to bypass legal requirements, and in some places it's not a smart idea to bypass legal requirements. When Mrs. Garowitz, Mara Garowitz from Pitsrivka wrote to the Rebbe, the lameds. It's a letter printed in Igeres Kodesh. The Rebbe said a whole strong sicha about lamudei kodesh. So she wrote to the Rebbe, okay, she wants now lamudei-- in Pitsrivka, only lamudei kodesh. Beautiful Chassidishe inspiration from farbrengen. The Rebbe says not poss-- need, uh, uh, ain't-- need, need- I don't know what you're talking about. You can't. It's illegal. So there's a legality

15:06 Speaker 2 over here, number one. Number two, within the legality, only at whatever is legally required. In Kvach Habad, they wanted to do past tenth grade. The Rebbe said at the time, there's no rule that you have to pass tenth grade. It's optional. If it's optional, don't do it. The another nekuda is the nenu mesudasa nekuda. If you look at the farbrengen of Purim tav shin chaf beis, everybody knows the sicha, but I don't know how many people know the farbrengen. The sicha nenu was nenu davka, but the sich-- the farbrengen, the Rebbe speaks-- the sichas has one approach, but the farbrengen, the reish by the farbrengen, the Rebbe's crying by the farbrengen. The Rebbe talks about lamudei chol. The Rebbe says, "You're manaal the mosdos, and you're put in a position that your mosdos has to have lamudei chol. Cry to them and show why your shlichus has been that you have to be manaal the mosdos, has lamudei chol. That's part of your job. What can I do? Unfortunately, I do that also about my job, by the way, every day. Why did you fall into such a position? Why are you having a geshmack in it? Maybe eating because you have no choice. That's the Rebbe's whole bir and the chet, right? They were allowed to go, according to the Rebbe's they were allowed to go to the meal of Achashverosh. But why are you enjoying it? So the Rebbe's lashon, I'll quote you a phrase. How do you say in, in English? No.

16:37 Speaker 2 You're geshmacking. You're making a whole-- it's, uh, it's-- You're being very enthusiastic. You're enjoying. Who's, by the way? Shakespeare. The Rebbe's talking about farbrengen, about people learning Shakespeare. By the way, our mosdos lamudei chol would do Shakespeare. There would be much better lamudei chol standards. It's not like in my days, lamudei chols in the Rebbe. But whatever, that's a, that's a mojim u'musgis. I'm not supposed to be promoting that agenda over here. So the Rebbe says-- Nobody learns Shakespeare anymore. The Rebbe says the, uh, say enjoyment. How many lines do the kids know Shakespeare lines by heart? It's an enjoyment. Let's just get it over and done with it. So it's a question of kamus, ribuy. You're putting so much effort into something which is a tafal tafal mafal. You're mehadrin it. The Rebbe's lashon is you're gona. You're enjoying it, that's even worse. And then there's a question of timing. That was a principle that the Rebbe already fought in tav shin when he started all the mosdos. Lamudei kodesh has to be first, and not first yet to design. That was a big fight with an individual, a famous Rosh Yeshiva in Lakewood, who at the time was running an organization, Torah Mesorah, which did a lot for promoting Yiddishkeit together when the Rebbe did the same thing. But they had differences of opinion. One of the differences was setting up mosdos which are going to have chol in the morning. By us, that was a snay. Kodesh has to be first. But

18:08 Speaker 2 it's not only a question of kodesh being first time-wise, but first also in cup. We are masking when we need to. The lashon of the Rebbe always says, they needed to be masking. There was already an existing mosod like that, so go change. We're taking over an existing mosod. It's bederech oines, we're forced. So some places for kiddush purpose, you want to have a mosod, you want people to send to your mosod, they're not going to send if there's no limud hakol. Of course you should have limud hakol, not even a question. We want people to get a Yiddish chinuch, and the only way they can get a Yiddish chinuch is via limud hakol. You must have limud hakol, and don't be frum af yenem's cheshbon. You have no right to take out limud hakol. If a place where gam hatsnu moeschim mesudim, the Rebbe told people in certain places where in the community limud hakol is looked down, Lubavitch would be the ones to start limud hakol. Then there's another nekuda. In this limud hakol, we try to fill it in with as much of a holy tochen as possible. That's another nekuda. V'af al pi vif'l Yiddish kayde kents the limud hakol. So, but in terms of priority, the teachers for limud hakodesh have to be paid better than the teachers for limud hakol. The Rebbe speaks about that very clearly. And if you don't pay the teachers for limud hakodesh more than the-- I think it's like that today. I don't know

19:24 Speaker 2 what it's like today, but Amal definitely was. The Rebbe said, spoke about this many, many times. Chol teachers get paid on time. Kodesh teachers have to go choves and go from one month to another. So what does it show to the teachers? What does it show to the talmidim? What does it show to the parents? The chol is more important. Prizes, limud hakodesh. You see in the prizes, you see in the tests, you see the whole system that kodesh is important. And chol we do, of course we do it. And if we do, we have to do it properly and we have to do it excellent. But you can see a melitznish in them. That's not something that's, that's your, that's your pride. Now in terms of Ivrit, is Ivrit kodesh? Now Ivrit is definitely not kodesh. Al pi halacha, let's start with that. Lash-- Learning lashon hakodesh is a very important thing, even if it's lashon hakodesh, not Ivrit. I'm going to get to dikduk in a second. Chochma sadikduk and learning lashon hakodesh, the Rambam says it's a mitzvah kala about learning lashon hakodesh. It's a mitzvah kala, mitzvah chamudis. Even learn-learning dikduk is not considered-- It's a chochma how to use lashon hakodesh, but it's not considered, it's not considered limud hakodesh. Open up a, a-- If you want a, a easy reference, there's a book called Encyclopedia Talmudis. Look at the entry called Chochmas Chitzoniyus, and you have a list of all the chochmas chitzoniyus there. Dikduk is a chochma chitzoniyus.

20:32 Speaker 2 Now whether you should learn Ivrit in your schools or not, it depends on the mosod obviously, but I could share with you an answer of the Rebbe printed in Likutey Sichos, but hold on tight to your chairs. Okay? Somebody writes to the Rebbe that he wants to teach Ivrit in his school. The Rebbe writes, "V'chol ho oisim kein. Goizlim kam vekam meshois milimud hakodesh shalem, u'machshilim oisim beinyanim de Rabban and gam de Raisa." What does that mean, right? I, I don't have the answer in front of me. There's some more to it. No, machshil not because you're teaching Ivrit, because when you're teaching Ivrit during that time, you're not teaching kodesh, and because of that, they have less knowledge of Torah, and therefore they nishelon de Raisas and de Rabbanas. V'chol ho oisim kein, a very sharp answer. It's Safsran-Kutsir-Skelet-Lamdal, look it up. Now, how do you reconcile that with the fact that the Friediger Rebbe says that our bachurim are maratzim gemurim, that's a fact by the way, in, in, in speaking, in speaking, and they don't know lashon hakodesh properly, and they have to have a yedea shitris and dikduk, at least that's two different things. There's a formal discourse of teaching Ivrit as a subject. And again, I'm not saying that you shouldn't do it. Even if you goizel kam meshois and you machshil beinyanim de Raisa de Rabbanan, you have to look at that in the context. It's definitely not limud hakodesh. It's not a priority. They need to have a,

21:47 Speaker 2 a, a yedea shitris al kaparam and dikduk, but Ivrit is not a kodesh subject. Not only Yiddish, Yiddish is even worse than Ivrit. You shouldn't be teaching Yiddish whatsoever. You shouldn't be-- Not only you shouldn't be teaching, you shouldn't be teaching in Yiddish. Excuse me for saying this. Uh, I'll, uh, I'll say very-- I'll tell you what the Rebbe said about teaching Yiddish. To give a class on dikduk. He used to give a regular class. The Rebbe asked him to give a class on dikduk, yes. Yeah, absolutely. It goes from the Friediger Rebbe, so he wants people to know dikduk. Uh, it's a different kind of dikduk. He, um, Matisyahu didn't teach hifel, pifel, shmifel, but, um- He-- The letters that they write to him, yeah. But I want to mention about Yiddish, it wasn't, it wasn't part of the discussions, but I will mention this. The Rebbe in-- the, the rabbeim were, were loichim against teaching in Hebrew, what we call Ivrit be-Ivrit. The Rebbe has very strong letters about this, that the rabbeim were nilchim against this. The talmidim, there's another letter to a particular mosad, so the Rebbe has three taunas. First of all, they give a lot of limud hakol. Number two, they start limud hakol in the morning. Number three, they do Ivrit be-Ivrit. That mosad, I think, still does all those three things since the youth. They haven't changed. Anyhow, but the Rebbe writes bezeh halashon, "Ha-talmidim tzakim bekol ha-pnimah de lo yishtama." All the talmidim are screaming. They

23:04 Speaker 2 don't know that they're screaming, but their inner voice is screaming, "Why are you teaching us Ivrit be-Ivrit?" Having said that, the rabbeim fought against this, right? It's maskil, it's meshiach, it's not-- The Rebbe says it's, the shita doesn't work because the shita, it is an educational shita that says it's called immersion, right? You know the immersion approach? You want to learn a language, if you teach him with that language, he'll learn the language. No, the Rebbe says it doesn't work educationally. Anyhow, it doesn't make sense pedagogically, educationally, and al pi Torah. And at the same time, there's a letter of the Rebbe to Kfar Chabad, where the Rebbe, the Rebbe wrote against Ivrit be-Ivrit, and then the parent-- but lepoel in Kfar Chabad, they were teaching Ivrit. And parents started complaining, they wanted to learn Yiddish. It's a very long letter in Yiddish. Kodesh, Yiddish is a beautiful thing, but who says to mosad? It's your job. You want to teach Yiddish? Teach at home. It has nothing to do with the mosad. The mosad's job is to attract students, and that's the only way you're attracting students, and that's the language that they speak. So the Rebbe negate it completely. Parents have a complaint, that's your business. And even if you-- kindly, Yiddish is more Yiddish shalem, which it, it did represent, and et hasfal be'shor, teaching a mosad in Yiddish means that you're more Chassidish. No, it's not the mosad's problem. Then there's a yichidus the Rebbe said, and anybody who's educated will

24:12 Speaker 2 be able to tell this yourself. You don't need-- I don't need to tell the yichidus from Safed in England, that the Rebbe said that if you're teaching kids in Yiddish, you give me mechanechem from Yiddishkeit. What does that mean? Now, I'm not saying you should be teaching in Yiddish. Uh, don't get the wrong idea over here. If you're learning with students who don't understand Yiddish, and you're teaching Yiddish because it's a holy thing, you're supposed to do Yiddish, right? L'shem mitzvah. And they don't understand a word you're saying, so they're turned off. When you're turned off from a class, you get turned off from Yiddishkeit. Today's day and age, everybody knows over here, if you-- today's day and age, not knowing alef-beis has nothing to do with whether you're good baal koreh. It has to do with whether you're going to be a shomer Shabbos or mechallel Shabbos. Let's be practical. A kid that goes through school and feels success, feels achievement, sits in a Chumash class, understands what's going on, sits in a Gemara class, grows up to be a frum Chassidish bachur. And a kid that sits in school and doesn't know how to read, he feels like a failure. It's not just a question of yediis, right? So he's sitting in a class and everything's in Yiddish and he doesn't know Yiddish. When people wrote to the Rebbe, "What language should chazzan of a ma'amaim?" What did the Rebbe answer? "Ba'efen sheivinu reva shomeim." So we have a problem that our reva

25:14 Speaker 2 shomeim don't speak Yiddish, and that's like a problem. The Rebbe spoke by Fabrengas, he taught in Chassidish in Galait, he had some situations in English, and the Rebbe spoke to Mrs. to, to Rebbe Groner's daughter by dollars. The Rebbe turned around, the Rebbe said, "I thought she's speaking in English." She spoke to the Rebbe in English. Oh, yeah, Chassidish at home, she was speaking Yiddish. Yeah, it's true. You have to set up your Moses in such a way. Some Moses started a very smart thing. They started Yiddish right from kindergarten. But kindergarten doesn't affect them. They, they can pick up twenty languages at once. And then immediately when you come into the Moses, everybody already knows Yiddish. But if you're having a Moses and you have a classroom, and they don't speak Yiddish, of course there's some-- and that was a name in a mosque. I'll take one question because we have more questions here.

25:56 Speaker 4 English and basic math.

25:58 Speaker 2 It's, it's called Chachmas Chatzonius. It's Metam HaChachat She'Baneshesh, Chachat She'Beneger. And you should be doing it in your Moses if the Tnei HaMakom require it.

26:07 Speaker 4 It's done in relative. It's presented in a way that you don't understand the-

26:11 Speaker 2 So if you're learning it because you're learning now Ramam who has Kiddush Hachadish, and you're partially not understanding the Ramam, and you're asking Rabbi Losh to come and give you a class, that's obviously not Metam HaChachat She'Beneger. That's what Ram-- the Tan Alter Rebbe writes, you daily, "Shtam Shalom Aleichem Terase." But I'm talking about if you're teaching them basic math and basic English. No, that is-

26:30 Speaker 4 One language, one prayer and worship.

26:32 Speaker 2 Don't worry, every one of your students knows how to speak English. Trust me.

26:38 Speaker 4 What?

26:38 Speaker 2 So there was a, there was an article. I don't know the answer to that question, but again, I don't want to go off topic. There was an article in, in, I don't know if it was the Yiddish HaShem or the Neshei. Someone wrote an article, and the Rebbe approved the article, and the Rebbe let it through, and the person asked a question. They didn't give an answer. He says, "What are we doing with our children? Our children don't know how to communicate in any language." It's a question. It's a whole long article, and we're, we're having, uh, dysfunctional students. The Rebbe let the question through. There was no answer there and we have to do something about this. And the Rebbe, the Rebbe saw it, the Rebbe commented on it, but there's no answer there. So I don't know. Some of the Moses have some solution for this. I don't know. I'll take one more question here.

27:14 Speaker 4 Yeah, we have one more question.

27:14 Speaker 5 All right, Brian, you mentioned that dikduk is not teaching Chumash. Where is Chumash skills coming? Is that teaching Chumash better?

27:24 Speaker 2 I don't know what Chumash skills means, but if Chumash skills means Chumash skills, then it's still Chumash, of course. It's, it is only about Chumash skills. We're teaching Chumash the f- most important focus in our Chumash is the skills, not the knowledge.

27:34 Speaker 5 Where-

27:35 Speaker 2 You have-- I said you're supposed to learn dikduk. The three degree Rebbe said to Shavi, "D and dikduk." Technically, is dikduk Limud Chumash? No. But are you supposed to learn dikduk? Of course. And I'm assuming that there's certain things that come in the same way Kiddush Hachadish comes in math and, and those kind of things. That's what we call-- and when you're teaching kids to read from the board, and you teach them how to, how to highlight, right? And you teach them how to cut the papers. Is that Chumash or chol? What is that? Of course, it's chol. But shouldn't you teach kids how to cut the papers in, in kindergarten? It's not just a shayas. But we don't teach Chumash per se. I just want to go back to the questions over here. We asked about Anash kids that are learning Limud Chol, what should, should be our approach to them. I didn't answer that question. So we should encourage as much as our kids to do Limud Chol. But if there's Anash kids that are learning Limud Chol, uh, sorry, to learn Limud Chumash, they're learning Limud Chol. So we encourage them. We did our jobs. There's a lot of things that we encourage them. We didn't do further. Rabbi Chadikov told one of the Anash, I forgot who it was, one of the Schluchim, that people that we have a lot of Baal Tshuvahs in our system, and they themselves are graduates from university, they want chol for their kids, and we

28:35 Speaker 2 can't stop them. And therefore, you have to continue your chol track, because otherwise, they're not going to send to Chabad Moses. And we know there's been Matzias Hayom. This was said in the sixties. We know Matzias how much of Anash there unfortunately want Limud Chol. But that's a problem in our education. If we would educate people properly about the importance of Chumash, they would want Chumash. But if they don't want Chumash, of course, we have to supply them, because otherwise, they're not going to get a Yiddish education. And, and finally, should we go to the next question, or should I deal with the ones-

29:01 Speaker 4 This is the last one.

29:02 Speaker 2 Uh, I didn't deal with all the things over here, but we're running very, very late. There was something about pursuit of personal talents and self-expression. I, I don't have a lot to say about that, but, uh, definitely one thing is for sure, that if we crush people that have, that have, uh, personal talents and they want to have self-expression, and in our environment, we just crush them and close them up, and we tell them they now do sports because it's Isser Khamer, because Shlomo Chaim didn't hold of it, um, it's a terrible thing. If a kid has a talent, of course, we should let him use his talent and use it for Kedusha, because otherwise, he's going to go with his talent anyhow and use it somewhere else. The Rebbe encouraged, what's his name, Eli Lipsker, to go learn music. Chanoch HaLev didn't, didn't not only, not encourage him. Handle even with art. It's not even a shaila, but there's still some things in our head which are not matching with the Rebbe Shitter that we put into our heads. Anyhow, let's, let's go.

29:51 Speaker 4 All right. So the next, uh, I'm, I was told I would speak slower. I spoke into it.

29:56 Speaker 2 Oh, is it better? Oh, Baruch Hashem.

29:59 Speaker 4 Yeah.

29:59 Speaker 2 Oh, okay. Hi. All right. Okay. So the next one is actually a very important question, which is about, uh, students davening. First of all, if, um, if a student is able to daven, let's say, more, and the class is on the level that they, uh, they're doing less in the classroom, uh, should we hold them back or should they be part of, uh, be with the class as, uh, you know, so be in achdus and everyone be together? Number two, if a student comes late, and I assume we're talking about under bar mitzvah over here.

30:25 Speaker 4 Just about the, just about the teacher, I think, next one.

30:27 Speaker 2 That, that, that's right. But I'm switching the order a little bit because, uh-

30:29 Speaker 4 Okay.

30:29 Speaker 2 So the student comes late to school, and I assume we're speaking about under bar mitzvah, that if the, if they, the school policy is they have to daven when they come in and, and but also they, uh, they have to get to class at Gemara, let's say, and that means they would have a hefsek between, Chris, uh, Chris Shema and Shemoneh Esreh. They have to daven Shema, say Shema before class and then Shemoneh Esreh after, uh, recess time with the hefsek in the middle. Is that appropriate or should we ma-make sure that they do it, um, a la Seder so that they know that there cannot be a hefsek there? And number three, I don't know anyone who would have this, Chas v'Shalom, but if you did-- missed minyan in the morning, the teacher Um, is it appropriate for them to daven in the classroom together with the class or to, uh, knock it out before t- uh, before s- class without such a, without such a chodosh and, uh, and, you know, uh, kavanahs and the, the mikveh? Okay. I'll take a l-

31:19 Speaker 4 I know what he's talking about.

31:20 Speaker 2 I'll, I'll- I'll take the last question first. Sometimes we have a system of ma'adar tzalekum and sometimes of ma'adar Pesach bereishah. So the last question was about a, a teacher. A teacher could daven with the class or he could daven-- he, he didn't have to pray and daven with a minyan before the class for some odd reason. Like you said, this is a mussar l'shichah, really shouldn't be talking about this. Shouldn't be something that's so much as talking about shaya.

31:42 Speaker 4 L'pula ba'alma.

31:43 Speaker 2 L'pula ba'alma. But I will say that I was this morning observing. I'm an observer. And whenever I go to a place, I observe what goes on. I observe the various different minyanim. And w- the way to tell how our kids are is to see how the melamedim are not when they're in the classroom, how they're davening in a minyan, not in a class. It, it, it's-- I was once by a Kinus of Mechanchim in Australia, in Melbourne, mostly not Lubavitcher teachers. And the w-- my session was, how do you instill yiras shamayim in kids? That was the session. And I gave a bunch of ideas. We have to have c- teach staff meetings, let staff meet together about a particular kid, how to encourage yiras shamayim, different techniques. But obviously, we spoke about duk nachi, which is a cliché that everybody says in the Gateway. I said, "I want to talk about the davening that we just had. We just had Mincha. And I'm looking at the Mincha, I don't understand why you guys want yiras shamayim. What's wrong if the kids grow up to be like you? You say you want them to be yiras shamayim, but how was Mincha right now?" And I was giving a few examples. And one of the examples I mentioned was, um, that sh- halacha is when you stand, go back three steps, you have to wait till Kedusha. But I saw you, the three steps, you walk right back. So if the people here not yiras shamayim,

32:51 Speaker 2 it was a bit sharp. And it was a gerei chasid there, I remember him till today, his name is Kimmelman, for those who know from Melbourne. "Eh, eh, eh, absolutely, absolutely. But in the gerei, the minig, they don't wait." Okay, fine. I said, "You're justified. Lubavitchers over here have no excuse." So I'm observing davening. I ha-- I do have to say I was inspired for the most part for the bechalo is no talking during davening, bechalo is davening with a minyan, which was pretty impressive today's day and age to see that. But if you're talking now about, about a teacher davening with a class, lafini is died if I'm experienced as a teacher, both as a teacher and as a principal, and today as an observer that watches from the outside. And trust me, when I'm observing, the kids are observing peak comma 'cause they register every single thing. A teacher davening in a classroom is a, a dover asur be tachlis ha'issur. You-- un-unless there's someone else in the cla- te-- in the classroom that's observing, another teacher. You're a teacher, you're supposed to be davening. But instead of davening, you're watching how everybody else davens. So ach freig adir, why shouldn't the student doing the same exact thing? He's doing the same thing. He's also watching what everybody else is doing. And the only m- place that he knows how he's supposed to daven is from school, 'cause the school teaches how to daven, and he sees how you daven. That you mark

33:59 Speaker 2 people down, you go over to people and tell you how you're talking, how come you're not talking. You're talking during davening because you're talking to people. As-- so why is he different than you? The question make zero sense. We had davening in school, in Tlomen, when I was teaching in high school years ago, in the prev-- my previous gilgul. So sat and we had a policy, the synach can stay there. We're all davening with a minyan. The minyan's early in the morning, seven thirty in the morning. So before six, the six-thirty daven is bechalavish beged renushi by, uh, Anash. And mitnachat chatzot. So we made a seudah. We have a bunch of teachers, all have to come to the minyan. Fine. One of us will take shifts. This week, I don't daven. So we're m'vatelt tefillah for a week. I mean, not m'vatelt tefillah. We obviously went and davened earlier or whatever, we did daven later, whatever system it was. Can't have a teacher davening in the classroom. If there's two teachers, one is davening, one is observing, gezuntheit. So daven quickly, do, do whatever it takes. You, you have to be there in the class. I don't think that's a question. Um, we're talking now about setting up the kids, the kids who wanna daven more. All the kids, there's Gemara policy. I know a lot of schools have this policy, daven at recess. I don't-- your problem, daven at recess. I don't know how you're supposed to daven twenty minutes, and I don't

35:07 Speaker 2 know what message that's giving to the kids. Twenty minutes is enough for the whole entire Shacharit. Uh, I c-- I know how to read fairly quick, and I don't know how you do it in twenty minutes. M-maybe daven twenty minutes only part of it, and the rest you daven in the Sdom and Sra the day. I have no idea. But so the question over here was, the kid comes to class and he's told, he, he, he started davening, and he-- when we start Gemara class, he's up to Shemoneh Esreh. And by the way, this is a bit deliberate that he's up to Shemoneh Esreh then. Don't think this just happened. So the teacher says, "Go on to the class right now." So there is a principle, you let it go and violate shochonot in order for you to be a better mechanech. We know that, obviously. And I'll bring you evidence for that, is evidence from the Sikher of the Friedi-- of, of the Rebbe. The, the, the Fri- the Friediger made a bracha on etzitas. The Rebbe Rashab told him to make a bracha, and he said, "We already made a bracha." And what did Rebbe Rashab tell him? "When I tell you to make a bracha, you make a bracha." So that's a license for us that we could ask our kids to make brachos levatala whenever we want, and we go, "Well, 'cause I said." Right? That-- so there is definitely an educational lesson in that story. The educational lesson in the

36:11 Speaker 2 story is for the kid to know that when a father tells you something, I know what I say is what you're supposed to do. It's not a lesson for the teachers, it's a lesson for the students. It-- educationally, sometimes, even if that's true what it says in that Sikher, not even, it's definitely true what it says in the Sikher. Even if our application is true, I should say, it's sometimes it's more harmful than successful. The kid doesn't know gray, only knows black and white. Kid knows that he's supposed to daven Gemara, um, daven Shemoneh Esreh right after, you know, be mafsik in between. He knows what Semichas Gdol with tefillah. But the teacher says, "Yeah, but I told you, so it's different." So I wanna know how the, how is that today's day and age, first, there's no such thing as I told you. It doesn't exist. Mishmas and kabbalah sechel is out the window, first of all, so that doesn't go down. But besides that, so what does he take from that? That you could just kacheim mebiad hayetzer, b'erotzvot amalachiv, b'erotzvot amakasa, the teacher could break the rules, I could also break the rules. He loses respect for his mechanech. It just doesn't work. So sometimes, harah shah, you need to be over al kol mitzvot toid except for like Aliyah on Har HaCarmel Yeah. May-maybe you have to do that. Sometimes you see a kid that's pusha doing this every single day, uh, you have to make-- it's, it's a surgery. It's,

37:17 Speaker 2 it's, it's a difficult one, and you don't make just that decision like that. Stam is a-- it's not a smart idea. And the same thing, going back to a kid that davens more. You want him to daven with the class, it's a mitzvah d'Oraita. But what is the kid feeling? Again, he's feeling you're taking away something that he wants to do. What-- if we wanna take away things from kids, let's take away in a yoniym of klipa than a yoniym of kedushah. There's many letters of the rebbe. The rebbe writes about kids that wanna grow beards. Writing to misnagshas yeshivas. Do all they wanna do extra, uh, the rebbe writes to another misnagshas yeshiva at Bachrim that wanna daven bareichas. And Segal, the Rosh Yeshiva, Manchester, not Lubavitch yeshiva, one of the kedoshim metohorim by them, they consider him a adam gadol. He wrote to the rebbe that he knows that certain p-kids are not really up to it. They're not really shайich to daven properly. So, so he wants to-- he doesn't want it to be chitzoniyum. He's using Lubavitch lingo. And the rebbe tells him it's not a smart idea. You're, you're tampering with something. They, they could half tire davening. He wants to daven the whole entire davening. I know there's a benefit in davening with a classroom. If you can't, you can't. You know, you're stuck. It's gonna ruin the whole class. You have to-- this tefillah is over doche tefillah yachad. Sometimes this kid, derech halah, the kid that davens

38:22 Speaker 2 more than everybody else also comes late, also davens loud, and also disturbs. It go-- it comes, it comes in packages. Usually it's the same kid. But if you could somehow manage, yeah, you know, you wanna daven, I'll make a special deal with you. You could daven the whole entire davening, but we'll have a bit. You could stand on the side, because this night, that night. It-- he feels like you're taking something away from him in kedushah. It's, it's usually educationally not a smart approach. Is there room to get him to daven less? He's a kid. The whole thing is chinuch. Question of what's better for chinuch. Um, should I deal with those two other questions which are davening or-

38:56 Speaker 4 Yeah. Um, there are a couple of more, uh, one about Ois of Shalom, uh, um-

39:02 Speaker 2 You, you, you choose what you think is important.

39:04 Speaker 4 Okay, thank you. Ah, okay. It's good. Um, all right. So regarding tachnun, uh, first of all, uh, having done with a minyan in a classroom, what's the, what's the meise with, um, putting it, because no Sefer Torah, but there are seforim regard to-

39:18 Speaker 2 Oh, you made a-- you made up a new question.

39:19 Speaker 4 It's not-- I, I know. I'm the, I'm the emcee, so I can do that. Um, uh-

39:24 Speaker 2 I could choose not to answer.

39:25 Speaker 4 No, that, um. Chirut chat. Um, and also if someone has a short-sleeve shirt, so this is in the paper, um, about, um, covering one's head. And there's one about Ois of Shalom, if, uh, someone's makpid about them not walking in front of them when they step back from Ois of Shalom, um, and stam in Shmoneh Esreh as well. I'm not quite sure the, what the question is, but, uh, it's just-

39:44 Speaker 2 I'll tell you from a classroom setting what the question is. So you have to think like a teacher.

39:48 Speaker 4 Ah.

39:49 Speaker 2 Okay. So you're a teacher in a classroom, and there's kids that make shtick. Remember what we spoke before about the kid that davens everything? So he went back three steps, and now no one is allowed to go through. A student has to go through because he has to get out. No. Did I get it right? Very good. Um, uh, he's blocking the path, and he's standing like that. And now it becomes a whole educational fight over here. There's a melamed. There's a whole class. It becomes a whole megillah. There's a bunch of kids like that. They're all frummus all of a sudden. The, the rest of the davening doesn't matter. But this is like-- I think that's the question. And they go, because the Shalom, the makpid on shir, chaz nish of gimel psias v'chol v'chol. It's part of the fun. So I'll share with you a personal experience. You know, you learn most from what you see. Back to what we spoke before, what you see, you learn mu-much more than anything else. I was a kid, and I watched a rav. There was a rav in Boropark called the Debretsiner Rav. He was very moshe, for those who know, he was by the rebbe a number of times. He was the standard posek in, in, in New York. Everybody that learned hilchot, if anybody knows in New York, if you da-- got shimes on ma'aris, everybody got shim, they got it from Debretsiner Rav. There's nobody else that they, that they got it

40:56 Speaker 2 from. So I was once in a shul, and he's a chashuve rav. Not that he considers him a chashuv. I mean, people consider him chashuv. And he has a knas tam and oivenon. He has a place, and it's pretty much blocked off. It's not in the center of the shul. He's not like a, like a yokel sitting in the back bench. And there was a little kid that was trying to pass by. He went back three steps. There was a little kid. I'm assuming it's his eynikl. 'Cause otherwise, why would be a little kid mamish standing by the front of the shul by the oivenon, by the raised, trying to pass by? So I noticed what he did. It was an educational experience for me. So the kid is trying to pass by, so what he does is, you know what he did? He went like that. But what do kids do? Davka is gonna go. And he saw the kid is davka going, and he just went like that and let him go. So again, this to me is educational experience. He was trying-- there's a din in Shulchan Aruch that is yesh mezarim that a makpid. It doesn't say that because of that you should destroy a kid's self-esteem, get into a fight with a kid, disturb a classroom environment, v'chol v'chol. It doesn't say this. It's a zehirus, that yesh mezarim. There's something called, it's a very important thing in chinuch b'klal. We should teach about it in our classrooms and in

42:02 Speaker 2 our farbrengens to our nash, called mishkal hachsidus. You know what mishkal hachsidus is? Balancing what comes before what. Yeah. Going to the mikvah is very important, but davening is also important. Which one comes before what? Beineihom l'chaveri, beineihom lamakom. Ven yei and ven nish. Sometimes, you know, I, I see bachurim that are davening. You know, we have a minyan, we don't skip everything in davening, right? So they start davening five minutes before shkiya, and you don't skip anything. So they'll be davening shmoneh esreh of Shacharit by night, 'cause what do you mean? Everything, we follow all the rules. So yeah, in a classroom environment, if you-- it's a three-way, you shouldn't be standing back three steps. And if somebody has to go through, in seven seventy it's almost impossible to keep this halacha. And you takka shouldn't be keeping this halacha in seven seventy unless it's practically possible. You should let people go through.

42:48 Speaker 4 Or do you bend back and forth?

42:48 Speaker 2 No, no. Shulchan Aruch says b'feireish not. That's actually in the shul-- halacha guf, you see this mishkal hachsidus. It says that it's m-more important to wait until kedushah than the zehirut of-- 'cause there's a shita that says you should do six steps. That's the shita. So how do you do the shita of six steps? You go three forward and three back. Three back technically is only just to get back to your place But because the should have said six steps, so we don't wanna-- we wanna count to three back, so we don't make a half stick in between. But more important is the way to kedushas. If, if, if someone has to go through, it says that go find your chalah. You should let him through and not go back right away. So you see clearly from that if somebody has to go through, you should let him go through. Then you get to the shaila of, um, tachnun. Um, talmidim are wearing short, short sleeves, and they're right. It's supposed to be separation between your arm and your forehead, and they're wearing short sleeves. So the younger talmidim certainly wear short sleeves. Uh, I have a etza for them. If you're actually doing tachnun deeper into the table, the table is also allowed to be a separation. So that's becoming a whole challenge in your class. I'm not sure what they're doing when they're making a spiel out of it. I'm not sure what they're doing. They're starting to throw sweaters and, uh, paper

43:56 Speaker 2 towels, whatever. You could use the table. The table is also supposed to be a hefsek. You asked an-- your question about tachnun sefer Torah. That's, that's a lengthy halakhah topic. There's al pi din, you can do tachnun in a place where there's no sefer Torah. This still is what the Rebbe did when the Rebbe stopped by the printer, by Schusterman's printer. Rabbi Groner said one thing on his yomah and he wrote something different. And I have to tell you right now, for years he said one way, and then his yomah came out and it says they fakert. I don't remember which one was the real one. The Rebbe clearly said tachnun upstairs when the Rebbe diamond in-- they used to make a meaning for the Rebbe Sundays and get a tachnun. The Rebbe would clearly say tachnun, tefillah sapai, with the tefillah sapai properly. But there's a lot of-- I'll tell you, Mekubalim say you say tachnun even when there's no sefer Torah. Poskim say you don't. So the question for years was if the Rebbe followed the shitah of the Mekubalim, which doesn't mean we have to follow that. But even in halakhah, there's a lot of, um, kulot if you're in a chatzer of a shul. So again, a tachnun is a chatzer of a shul. Some poskim say if there's pharim, even if there's no sefer Torah. So if there's any kulot, you can rely on that kulot for sure. And there was another question here which you didn't read out. I

45:01 Speaker 2 think it's very negue la maisa. Can I learn Chumash with my talmidim in the park on a nice spring day if people are dropping-- You want to say the question?

45:08 Speaker 4 Yeah. Uh-

45:08 Speaker 2 I think you know how to read English better.

45:10 Speaker 4 Thank you. Um, so it's, uh, uh, actually also with EBTs, the prolification, proliferation, sorry, of EBTs and aids and, uh, you know, got more, more aids than students sometimes. Um, if you have a, a, a non-Jewish or Jew-- a lady with a tefach megulah, uh, with regard to learning, uh, learning kedusha, or if you want to take, take your kids to the park or something and learn there where there's a possibility of, uh, seeing something, what is the, uh, um, etzas or-

45:37 Speaker 2 Okay, this is a straightforward halakhah question, and the answer is it's a serious issue. If you have a therapist in your classroom or you're in the park and someone has a tefach megulah, but actually you're not allowed to learn Torah there. So the nishelfen can, as they say in Yiddish, can padaini matzilaini. Not-nothing's gonna help you. You need to say, "Es av pi shema dach." There's one hetter called the tzimas einayim. Go teach a class with a tzimas einayim. Good luck for that. Sometimes it's a good idea for the teacher to have a tzimas einayim if he wants-- doesn't want to know what's going on in the class. And there's another etza, and a tzimas einayim most poskim hold doesn't help. The makim bital Torah, you can rely on that shitah. And there's another etza which is al mikir then hachzarat spanim. Go do hachzarat spanim in your class. It's turning around. Um, there is something about holding up a sefer like hachzarat spanim, putting your hand, holding up something like that. That's what you're supposed to do on the train. Whenever you're going on time on the train, that's the only way you're allowed to learn Torah. If you're holding up a, a sefer like that, you should be doing it anyhow because of shmiras einayim reasons, because there's no other way to go on our trains in a safe way. But honestly, in the park, you have an etza. Don't take them to the park to learn Torah with this tefach megulah b'isha.

46:42 Speaker 2 Is there a therapist in the classroom in Mechilas Kvei Teyras and Fanala Meis is not gonna save the pemole. There's not allowed to be a therapist in the classroom with a tefach megulah b'isha even when you're not learning Torah. It's a pritz ha'shein kedigmasa. If there's a therapist who walks in the classroom, it's part of the job of a manala meis to tell this therapist, "We have a uniform in our school, and just like there's a uniform lahavel in every single industry, why can't we insist on a basic kosher uniform?" Uh, the-- You actually can't learn Torah then. There's, there's no hetter for that. Let's go to-

47:09 Speaker 4 Okay. We have-- we're running, running short on time. I apologize. Uh, c-can we skip through some of the what I-

47:13 Speaker 2 Whatever you feel is more important.

47:14 Speaker 4 Okay. Um, a challenge with regard to, um, men and women teaching in the same meis. I assume the question is regarding, um, i-interactions, uh, the teachers' lounges and, uh, whatever it is. Uh, what is the, uh, uh, is there any, uh, oh, the-

47:28 Speaker 2 Okay. I'll-- I, I wanna deal with one more question, actually, from Mechilas Kvei of the MC, who's gonna shver me mechlimi. There's a question right before that, and then I'll deal with your question. The question was, how do we expect it to raise such a difficult generation? That was the question that was asked. And there was another question, why Mashiach is not here yet. I took it off the list.

47:46 Speaker 4 Why what?

47:47 Speaker 2 Why Mashiach is not here. I think when you sign up, you have to put in a question. On a, on a serious note now. Um, how we expect... I, I really I want to deal with this question. This is a very, very fundamental question. I don't want to skip this question. I think the question is, how are we expected to raise such a difficult generation? I think the question is a faulty premise. It's tasha stusen v'havalam. And if I may say, if this is gonna be your attitude, you should please leave the meis of ch-- the institution of chinuch. Now, you could change that attitude, but if you're gonna take the attitude, it's a difficult generation. Our generation is the easiest generation to raise me'oz b'ri atzha'alam. I think the whole thing is a faulty premise. It's, it's pashut an attitude how we look at our talmidim. If you're gonna look at your talmidim, first, they're much bigger kedim l'kabbalah today than ever before. It's pashut metzias. I went to school. Number one. Number two, there's nothing today, today-- i-in all generations, and there's a few examples I'm gonna give. In all generations, there was always something that was challenging, a particular real thing that was a stiras hayidishkeit. There was a d-- there was an ism. There was communism, there was socialism, Marxism. I, I, I, I go on and on and on. There was philosophy. There's nothing today. There's only one thing that exists outside the classroom. And what's that? Vanity. Stusen, emptiness,

49:02 Speaker 2 pustkeit. Vain, sheker achein v'hevel hayofi. You know the Friediger Rebbe's word? Sheker achein said, "Kumen a tzeit as ven sheker ven machen achein. V'hevel hayofi ven hevel ven machen hayofi." Yishai yiras Hashem, something which is real substance, he teshalel ven ven ven abshpatn. Teshalel ven gemek lesanis, teshalel ven gemek loshonis. There's nothing else outside the classroom but emes. The only place you get something meaningful. Why are people being neskar after Chabad houses? Answer me. Today, more than ever before. In the early years, it was mamprash uphill battle to make people frum. Today, people c-- they have nothing else. If you're looking for meaning, you have meaningful minute, a meaningful moment, a meaningful life. Everything is called meaningful today, right? That's the way you attract people today. 'Cause I'm providing something meaningful. Out there, you don't have anything meaningful. I'm giving you something meaningful. They don't have any meaning. It's all pustkeit. Pustkeit is a very easy etza. Just fill in a bit of tochen. And people are, are, are pashut darshtrik. They're thirsty for tochen. It's not a difficult generation at all. The, the-- Yeah, we have certain challenges that didn't exist before, I'm asking. You know, gimmel tammuz is a challenge, goals is a challenge, cell phones is a challenge, v'chulu, v'chulu, v'chulu. But there's ways to deal with that. Look, look at our moistes. I mean, if I-- when I look into the room, I looked this morning at davening, I have to tell you, I, I, I was taken Pasht, uh, you

50:16 Speaker 2 see the mechaneche, we have chassidishe mechatchim. Look at our moises and see the-- what we produce. We produce every, every few minutes someone else is thinking about going on shlichus. Every week someone's actually going on shlichus. We have people, par ibi gemes the rebbes in yanum, be-- I have a son that's leav- moving next week to shlichus in Lubbock, Texas, b'shor tev matzlachas. He's-- I have no idea why he's doing it. He's going to a midrash mama. He never saw the rebbe in his life. He's not capable of fundraising. He's not capable of public speaking. All of a sudden within, within a couple of days, he learned public speaking, fundraising, v'chol, v'chol, because he has no choice. That was-- and he's not the only one. I could go-- I, I'm talking about someone because I happen to know him, he's my son. Whe-where'd they, where'd they get this from? 'Cause we're providing them with our moises, with the real tools of chinuch v'yirat shamayim v'chassidishkeit. And this is not based on the fact that because he went to the rebbe's fablengs. Yeah, he went to many more fablengs than anybody in this-- people that were before Gimel Tammuz, but there weren't live fablengs. So I, I think the question was faulty, if I may say so. And I think if we take that attitude, we'll be able to raise, like the rebbe says, baser legani, that we make a big mistake that we think that the world is a desert, and it's really a gan,

51:23 Speaker 2 it's a garden. The whole new state of the maamar baser legani is. Then you get to the question that you asked about men and women working together as a team in a cheder. So if it is a classroom environment, a, a, a school environment, by the way, there are letters of the rebbe that give specific guidance. The rebbe talks about the fact very strongly about hafrada. Hafrada meaning separation of the genders in all Shlavi Gilah chinuch. The rebbe also talks about people coming into the classroom, and now we're not talking about kids, we're talking now about adults. So one of the rebbe's letters the rebbe writes that if, if one or two teachers, because there's something called, um, classroom observation. This is way before the proliferation of, of therapists. Classroom observation, do they still do that today? And they check how, how mechachim, if they're really teaching? Or you just do it on the video today. So the rebbe writes that to learn to go through classroom observation is not a problem if a female teacher walks into a classroom. If one female teacher, um, obviously no tefach megula as per previous discussion, it's not a problem. The real problem is not in the classroom, the real problem is in the staff room. The same way everybody knows that the kiddush haMechaneche takes place more at breakfast than at lunch, right? And kiddush haShluchim takes what's, what's-- and the session's all a waste of time, kumat. But when you're interacting with other people over a

52:38 Speaker 2 cup of coffee, that's where things really happen, right? I don't mean chassidim waste of time. The staff room is where it really happens, and there's a kiruv happening to, to be of different genders, and there's halachas about that. So first of all, you have to make sure to keep all the halachas kedasa gedin. But secondly, we have a klal called ein aperupis la'arays, and ein aperupis la'arays applies to everyone, including melamdim and mechachim and, and anshei kodesh. If the Chazalim and Amoraim said, "Izaharu bi mipnei biti, mipnei imi, mipnei kalasi," that they need extra precautions. So I don't think anybody in this room thinks they're more than that, and we need to take safeguards. And there are safeguards you have to take. I'll give you w- just one example. We have to make ourself-- I was told I'm talking about some kind of shush, I'll just stop. So-

53:21 Speaker 6 Last thing.

53:22 Speaker 2 And I'm finishing with that. Taking a sa-- taking a safeguard is, l'mashal, why are you calling the woman with her first name? You should make yourself a certain gedar. You shouldn't be calling each other the first name. You have to have some type of-- there should be some type of lichuk. I, I spoke to a man now who told me he has a secretary, and like everybody, he has a female secretary. He said, "I never ask her to make me a cup of coffee." It, it's so, it's so tempting. It's hamachay. She's my eved neretzah, right? She could do whatever I ask her. She's a secretary, that's what you do today. No, he says, because that creates a certain kind of kiruv. I made myself certain rules. I have any meetings that have to be in the office. I will never go out for a meeting in a restaurant. You have to make yourself certain gedaram mesugam, like in a regular workplace, and especially that we know there are stories that are happening in moises. David Zalhofen, you're doing a tremendous shlichus. I couldn't deal with any of the other questions, but I have no pro-- if anybody wants, I could, if, if there's an interest in that, I could take some of the other questions and do a, a podcast and, uh, send it out if anybody's interested in that. Hatzlacha rabba.

54:17 Speaker 6 Thank you for listening. Wishing you much hatslacha in your vital shlichus.