Ep. 21: Choosing to be a Chossid with Rabbi Moshe Wolberg

00:00 Speaker 1 A Hasid has to realize that his connection to the Rebbe is an atzmiusdikie connection. And then, you know, of course, you, you have, it's an atzmiusdikie connection. But l'peel, sidul sevdus, it's v'sechayens, and you wanna do this, and you don't wanna do that, and, and, and you don't actually, you know, a-actualize this actual connection which, which we know about. But at least, first of all, we have to know it in our brain. And then we have to see to it maybe to, to, to bring it down into maaseh, and hopefully to bring it up shikul halev, the heart, in our heart as well.

00:37 Speaker 2 I'm Yossi Kamen. Welcome to Among Hasidim by Der Her, an ongoing farbrengen about life as a Hasid, our vibrant connection with the Rebbe, and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. Brukhim habaim, shalom aleichem, Rabbi Wohlberg, how are you?

00:56 Speaker 1 Baruch Hashem, how are you?

00:59 Speaker 2 Doing good, Baruch Hashem. Thank you for, uh, making the effort to, to make this happen. I guess let's start. Um, I think that you were, uh, by, I don't know, all or most of the Rebbe's farbrengens since, I would, I think, Tosh Tammuz Gimel. I think that's the right year. And from what I understand, I think that was part of the, you know, what, what attracted you to the Rebbe in the first place. Um, but I don't know. I don't, I don't, I don't really know. So, uh, th-that's my question. Is, uh, is that, is that the case or, uh, what's the story there?

01:41 Speaker 1 I'm, I'm not really sure. It's, like, very uncomfortable to speak about my own stories. I mean, I don't feel that I have really such a serious story. So I could just, just tell you a little bit about myself and know where I'm coming from, and, uh, I think that'll give you the general gist of things. Uh, I lived-- My parents were both, uh, s-survivors, so to speak. They didn't actually... They weren't in the camps, but they both, they wo- both were in Russia during, during the war. They're both from Poland. And, uh, they came to America. And, uh, we lived in Brownsville on Stone Avenue. That's where we lived. And at that point in time, my father was gonna send me to a cheder, and Ohel Torah had a bus going to Brownsville, which wasn't really far. Ohel Torah at that point in time was on Eastern Parkway between Bedford, uh, between Rochester and, uh, Buffalo. It was... They had a building. They had two buildings there. I still remember it. And that's where-- And it wasn't so far from where we lived, and there would, there would be a bus coming from the yeshiva to Stone Avenue picking up a few boys, and we went to learn there. So I started learning in Ohel Torah. That was my first learning. It was Mrs. Teitelbaum, she was the pre-one eight s- teacher, and then there was Yossel Reizes, which was the first-grade teacher, and then there was, uh, Shalom Ber Vishitsky was the second-grade teacher.

03:12 Speaker 1 And I was there for two years, but there was no Limudei Chabad-

03:15 Speaker 2 Yeah

03:15 Speaker 1 ... so, I mean, my par- I was there for two years.

03:18 Speaker 2 Your parents weren't Lubavitch?

03:19 Speaker 1 My parents were Lubavitch, no. They had nothing to do with, you know, with connecting to Lubavitch. So I would imagine, even though I don't remember it, I remember being in camp there as a little child. I'm sure, l'chura, there was a, there was a parade in Tosh Chof. So l'chura, I was by the parade. I don't, uh, I don't remember it, but I imagine, like, I'm sure Ohel Torah went to the parade, and I'm sure I was part of that parade. So that was probably the first time I saw the Rebbe. It was like BeImmer Tosh Chof. And during that time, we moved to East Flatbush. We moved to East Flatbush, and in East Flatbush, there were the Hefts. So actually, the Hefts, I knew some of them from Ohel Torah. Yosef Shaya, we were in the same class in Ohel Torah. Then I lived right next to Yankel Heft's shul, and there was Mechol Teitelbaum. So there was a certain connection. You know, I, I knew a little bit about Lubavitch, and I knew some Lubavitchers. And I would walk from East Flatbush to Crown Heights to the Rebbe's farbrengen on a regular basis. It was like, uh, as a young child. Talking about, like, a seven-year-old, eight-year-old. I had friends in Crown Heights, not Lubavitchers also, because I was learning in Torah Vodaas of Crown Heights at that point in time. And I would go. So I would go to 770, and the ma-- It used to be this small shul in the

04:45 Speaker 1 770, the back, you know, the first shul. And there would be, like, tables in the back where the kids would stand and say l'chaim and whatever, maybe hear something of what the Rebbe's saying, say l'chaim, and then go back home. And that was, that was the Seder HaDvar. That was the Seder HaDvar. And I'm just saying... And, and as I got a little older, so I, maybe I stayed a little longer for farbrengen, and I heard some more things. And, and there was a general attraction of me to what was going on in 770, to the bachurim, to the, to the, to the atmosphere of 770. That's-- I'm just telling you where it was. Eventually, I went to learn in the Yeshiva of Staten Island, which was the Mesivta, which that was when I was 12 years old. That was when I went to a dormitory. I'm, I'm telling you just my life story just, so just to avoid your questions, and maybe I'll just give you background. And I, you know, I, I knew about Lubavitch, and I w- I gravitated to Lubavitch, and I was, like, considered the Lubavitcher there. I was considered the Lubavitcher in the yeshiva. That was like... And then I would go to, uh, you know... I remember, I think the first actual farbrengen that I went to, a farbrengen during the week was Yud Beis Tammuz, Tosh Chof Tes. Like this, I would only go on Shabbos, Shabbos or Yom Tov. But the Bestham was top Shul Chates,

06:08 Speaker 1 so I remember going from the yeshiva in Staten Island to the Fabrengen, which would involve going on the ferry and then taking the train to Kingston Avenue, and then going back by ferry at night and, like, waiting for the ferry and waiting for the bus. It was like, you know, I remember, like-- I, I still remember singing, "Vani eftach boch" on the bus stop, waiting for the bus after the ferry, the Hamshota Fabrengen of Yitzhak Skislev. Well, my-- I'm just giving you an example of what it was. And that's where I was. I was, like, in, in the yeshiva there. I was like the Lubavitcher. And I gravitated to Lubavitch. I would come, and I was very strongly attracted to it. And then the rest, I suppose, is history. As things progressed, eventually I decided... And there was also Tanya Shiurim in the yeshiva, which Meir Annas used to send people. There would be, uh, Binyamin Cohen from Australia would come give a shiur on a regular basis. Shalom Berg Groner gave a shiur. There was a time Shalom Duchni used to come give a shiur. Zalman, Zalman Lipsker, which I think is one of the Gaboim in Seven Seventy, would give a shiur. There would be different people giving shiur in there in, in, in Staten Island. And these were all Shiurim in, in... It was a shiur that was done in a car because there was officially there was no shiur, so we would learn in the car.

07:34 Speaker 2 It wasn't allowed.

07:35 Speaker 1 Wasn't allowed. And that's what, what, that would happen. I'm just telling you the way it was. Um, um, what should I tell you more? I, I still remember, like, Rab... Meshe Feinstein would come to yeshiva on Yom Tov, like, Shavuot, he would come to yeshiva. Maybe other times he would come. I remember chazaring a vort that I heard from the Rebbe. I said it over in the name of the Rebbe, that, you know, "Yegia kapech" is really the look of "Yegia kapech ekiseich alasrech aveteivloch" that when's "asrech aveteivloch" when you only have the "yegia" of the "kapayim" and not the "rosh", only the "kapayim." So I remember, like, being, like, very, uh, very, very, very, like, impressed with the vort, with this "yegia kapech." I just told him, I said it over in the name of the Rebbe, and that was that. Um, maybe I could maybe share another little story which would help anybody. I don't know. I remember, I remember my father asking the Rebbe in a tzedakah about a shidduch for, for one of my sisters, and it was a shidduch about someone that had, like, some history in the family of not, not some, uh, connected to health. And my father asked the Rebbe whether he should do the shidduch. The shidduch didn't happen, but it's not important. That, that's, that was the Rebbe, he asked the Rebbe. And the Rebbe told him, "Al pi, Al pi yehi roz rav meira ero." That was the answer. So I was learning in

09:02 Speaker 1 yeshiva in Staten Island, so my father told me. I was like Bestham, a boy of fourteen, fifteen. So my father tells me. I said, "Yes, Rab Meshe." You know, I'm there, so yes, Rab Meshe.

09:13 Speaker 2 One second.

09:13 Speaker 1 So-

09:14 Speaker 2 Um, can, can I ask? I have two questions here. I'm not understanding.

09:17 Speaker 1 Yeah.

09:17 Speaker 2 Number one, and you, you, you'll, uh, remember exactly where we are. We're holding with the story of Rab Meshe. This yeshiva, Staten Island, is part of the network of Rab Meshe Feinstein's yeshiva?

09:27 Speaker 1 Rab Meshe Feinstein didn't have a network of yeshivot. He, there was a yeshiva in-

09:31 Speaker 2 He had a yeshiva-

09:31 Speaker 1 In East Side. He was, yeah, he was, he was a rosh yeshiva in that yeshiva, and then there was another yeshiva. There was one more yeshiva that was affiliated with that yeshiva, yeah. That was called the Yeshiva of Staten Island-

09:42 Speaker 2 Okay

09:42 Speaker 1 ... which his son, Rab Reuven, ran, and he still runs, I believe.

09:47 Speaker 2 Got it. Okay. And your father was asking the Rebbe these questions.

09:52 Speaker 1 Yeah, he was. Yep, yep.

09:53 Speaker 2 So that means he had, uh, sheiyachas on his own to the Rebbe.

09:56 Speaker 1 Not really. I mean, the truth here, my mother worked in Crown Heights in, in a, in a, in, in the, uh, in the, um, in the bakery on Albany. There used to be a bakery on Albany Avenue near Eastern Parkway. So she worked there, and Rabbi, Rabbi Groner would come there , and as a result of that, they went, went and to Yechidus. Like, like, my mother wanted to go to Yechidus about this, about an uncle, whatever, it's nishma, yeah. And they went to Yechidus. That was through the connection of my mother meeting Rabbi Groner in the, in the, uh, bakery. And, uh, the Rebbe himself would sometimes come into the bakery, the Chabad. And, um, so, so probably somehow or another, I imagine how would my father get it settled to the Rebbe. Probably gave it to my mother, and my mother maybe gave it to someone. I don't know exactly how it happened. My mother would come to Crown Heights. She wasn't so far from Seven Seventy. Am I still on, yeah? It's very-

10:55 Speaker 2 That's it.

10:56 Speaker 1 Well, so bekitzur, that, that's what happened.

10:59 Speaker 2 Okay.

10:59 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe answered, "Al pi," uh, uh, ro- uh, you know, "kadas," uh, "kadas rav meira ero." So I remember at that time, Rab Meshe was staying in yeshiva. He would stay in the dorm, and he would wake up, like, uh, four thirty in the morning, go down into the zal and learn or write, whatever. And it would be like... So I also woke up that time, and I went over to ask him this question. And me, with my, uh, whatever, a little bit ignorance, so I found, it sounded funny to me that this is a question that sheiyachas to a rav. It sounds more like a question sheiyachas to a Rebbe. So I remember telling him, you know, the Rebbe, I told him that my father asked the Rebbe, and the Rebbe said he should ask a rav. So my father asked me to ask you. My father told me to ask you. It doesn't mean, to me, it doesn't make sense that it has a sheiyachas to a rav. It's something more of like a, a Rebbe type of question. And he started, like, saying, "No, feresh not. It's certainly sheiyachas to a rav." First of all, everything is sheiyachas to a rav, and the sheila is whether betreis zimna avei chazaka or betlasach zimna avei chazaka, whether or not you have to be chashash for a problem. And he was saying that one of the problem was a problem that happened during childbirth. M'meil, even though it doesn't normally happen, but if

12:11 Speaker 1 it does happen, that's not really a reason to be chashash, and m'meil you're not chashash. And I'm just telling you, uh ... creates a a little bit, uh, a piece of information which I don't know is important or not important. I'll, I mean, I'll tell you, I'll tell you everything that I have to say. I don't think I have much more to say. Now, while I-- During those years, I also had a yechidus with the Rebbe. I went into Rebbe yechidus in, in, uh, when I was 15 and when I was eight-- when, in Toshon Lamed Alef and in Toshon Lamed Beis, I went into yechidus. And at that point in time, I already, like, had an interest in learning in a Lubavitch yeshiva, and I asked the Rebbe whether or not I should go over and learn in a Lubavitch yeshiva. And the Rebbe told me that, uh, "Le'eleim yomid makom shel libo chafetz." So therefore, it's not something that I can make a decision for you. It's something you have to make your own decision. It's totally makom shel libo chafetz. That's how, that's how you should make a decision of where you should learn. That was that year. That, that year, that year, there was like a, I was, I was supposed to learn somewhere el- I was gonna go learn somewhere else in another yeshiva. And l'peel, it didn't work out, and I went back to my old yeshivas. I, I-- B'kitzur, when I went to yechidus the following year, around

13:35 Speaker 1 Pesach time, which is my yom huledet, so the Rebbe... So again, I wrote to the Rebbe. I said, "Listen..." I said that I Listen, I said, I, I, you know, the Rebbe told me makom shel libo chafetz, but I'm t- I'm telling you a story which shows you that I'm, like, a little bit confused. In the mean, I don't really have a libo chafetz. It's not really clear to me what my libo chafetz is. So I'm asking the Rebbe... I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm saying it maybe very grub right now. I'm sure I wrote it a little edeler. But I'm asking the Rebbe that the Rebbe should, should be machlut for me. So the Rebbe said, "Iv al v'saadin ve'shteyten, za, zach ve'shteyten ben zecher Rambam, ben zecher Shulchan Aruch. Id sa'adover hapashut az yeder einer ken tzukomen tzedek um, machlut zein." That every person, you know, could come to this, this understanding, and therefore you should be machlut on your own where you wanna learn. And then the Rebbe finished it off, "U'mezal herem psulus teyves." That was-- So when I heard the word mezal herem psulus teyves, somehow or another, it clinged in my ear that the Rebbe is saying, "No, this, you should have sekhel what to do right." You know, there, there was a lashon one time there by fabrengen. The Rebbe said, "Chakam hu shekiyam te divrei chakam." It was also been against the, the Sefer Tehillim that he wrote, the Sefer Tehillim for the children. And there was an

14:55 Speaker 1 argument what it was, and it was something the Rebbe wanted. B'kitzur, there's a mussar, there's a lashon, a Mishnah, "Chakam hu shekiyam te divrei chakam." So when the Rebbe was saying, uh, makom shel libo chafetz, I felt that the, the... I'm just telling you the hergish. You know, it could be that I was saying, "That was a herem psulus teyves," but that's what it felt to me, mezal herem psulus teyves. So l'peel, that summer, I taka went to Morristown. That was the summer of Lamed He. I went to Morristown. I remember-

15:26 Speaker 2 How old are you at this point?

15:28 Speaker 1 I was-- I just turned seventeen.

15:30 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

15:31 Speaker 1 I just turned seventeen. I went to Morristown, and I remember, you know, trying to persuade me not to go to Morristown. There was like many different, uh, persu-- trying persuasions, you know. I remember hearing a vort from somebody over there saying that, you know, "You, if you go to Lakewood now or you go to Brisk, you'll always be able to go to Lubavitch. But if you go to Lubavitch, there's not a chance, much, much of a chance that you'll end up in Lakewood or in Brisk." That's, that, that was the, the vort that he told me, which was true, actually, you know.

16:06 Speaker 2 True, true.

16:08 Speaker 1 And, uh, and l'peel, so I went to Morristown. While I was in Morristown, there was also not such a clarity in me about staying. In fact, it was like mamish a svara to go. And l'peel mamish, it was Meilech Zvi, olav hashalom, which was like the makim ve'patish of me to stay. But I'm just saying it's not like he did something which was like l'chatchila nothing. You know, it was, it was, it was something. It was like a, it was a, a very, maybe a, a, a, a not clarity on, on my part, and that's what happened. So then I ended up going-

16:46 Speaker 2 Something that Meilech said or just, uh, being around him?

16:48 Speaker 1 We, there was a fabrengen. It was like a shtark of a fabrengen, or a shidduch el Toshon Lamed Beis, actually. And, and at that fabrengen, it was like the decision was made on, on my hand. Rebbe took a l'ramashke and whatever it was. Without getting involved in the details shebevod ham, I maybe just mention Me-

17:07 Speaker 2 It's up to you.

17:07 Speaker 1 Yeah. But just to, just to mention Meilech and then, you know, and this, that m- probably the last time I met Meilech was I once went to Morristown for a Shabbos before Shavuot, you know, Shabbos Achdus. So they, they would bring people to fabrengen. So I pro- I was probably from England. I went to Morristown to fabrengen, and there was someone sitting there, which that person was in Morristown as a result of me, which a, a connection, a family connection. So I felt that I was the one that, that ended up, a boy from Brazil. So he ended up being in Morristown as a result of me. So I told Meilech. I was sitting next to Meilech, so I told Meilech that this bocher is here because of me. So he said, "Ebaze is a dach meinene kol." That's what I'm just saying Meilech's, uh, response to that inyan. So, um, I think I told you pretty much everything. Pretty much everything. I mean, there's like a story which was printed, and it was said, and it's different versions, but I could tell you the version that I know about and that was that, uh... It's, it's a, you know, it's a tr- it's a true story. It maybe brings out something, gives you a little bit of a hergish that, uh, I, I, I used to put on tefillin Chalamed. Used to put on Tefillin Chalomit. The truth of the matter is, my father himself came from a family where they didn't put on

18:32 Speaker 1 Tefillin Chalomit. When he came to America-

18:36 Speaker 3 Your father was like a, a Litvisher?

18:38 Speaker 1 My father came from a Polisher background. His fa- his father was a Gerrer Hasid. His father was a Yid that went to the Pshatis, traveled to Pshatis. His grandfather, I think, went to the So he came from Polisher, from Polisher background. But he, he was a yosem as a young child. His father passed away when he was... His mother passed away when he was eight or nine years old. And, uh, he went to a-- he, he learned in Yeshivas Novardok, Beis Yosef, which in, in Bialystok. So he like, it's more of a Litvisher yeshiva, Musar yeshiva. A cop on him, and that's how really he ended up c- uh, being saved during the war because he wasn't in his home. He wasn't in his home. He was in yeshiva, and he ended up going to Vilna, and from there escaping to Russia. But I'll cope on him-

19:27 Speaker 3 Was he in Shanghai?

19:29 Speaker 1 Huh?

19:30 Speaker 3 He was in Shanghai?

19:32 Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no. He was in Russia.

19:34 Speaker 3 Almost that region. Okay, yeah.

19:35 Speaker 1 No, no, no. He was, there was this maybe a swear, but he, he ended up being in Siberia. Because he went to Russia with a bunch of people, Yankel Galinsky, with a bunch of friends, and then they were arrested. They were arrested in Russia, and they were sent to Siberia. That's really what saved them.

19:51 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

19:52 Speaker 1 In any case, what was I saying about my father?

19:55 Speaker 3 Because he, because he put on-

19:58 Speaker 1 Ah, so he started putting on Tefillin because when he came to America, he had a job that he, that he felt he had to work Chalomit, and someone told him he's working Chalomit, and maybe he put on Tefillin Chalomit. Really, I remember speaking to Amisha. Amisha didn't feel that it, there's any truth to it. But that there's only any validity to it. It's not, not against. But I remember, like, but I was putting on Tefillin Chalomit, and, you know, I started, like, davening Nusach Ari and Tefillin the Keshev, Nusach Chabad. I'm saying this all changed when I came to Maristan. Until I'm Maristan, I d- I had what I, whatever I got from my father's Tefillin. And, um, and my Nusach was also the Nusach that I always learned to daven. And, but to change not to wear Tefillin Chalomit was something that I didn't feel comfortable. It was like, not to wear Tefillin Chalomit, I just didn't feel comfortable. So I put on Tefillin Chalomit then, and when I went to Yechidas, I wrote into the Rebbe that I, I put on Tefillin Chalomit, and I'm asking, "Should I continue or should I stop?" You know, I s- I'm, I'm doing all the Nusach Chabad. Should I change or shouldn't I change? That was the question that I asked the Rebbe. And in those years, you would have to bring into the Rebbe a settle from the Anhola. In other words, you would bring your own settle, you would give it to the Rebbe.

21:21 Speaker 1 I don't remember how you would give it. You'd give it both together into the Rebbe's hand. Because the settle, your own settle, you know, the Rebbe would stick out his hand, and you would hand it to the Rebbe's hand. But the settle would, probably you would hand both together. You'd probably hand, hand your settle, which was an open settle, and you would also hand a closed envelope with the Anhola's, uh, writings about you or whatever. And the Rebbe reads the, the letter, the way the Rebbe would read it, you know, with moving his hands on it. And then the Rebbe opened the letter of Anhola. He opened the re- letter of Anhola, and like the Rebbe's looking at this letter and this letter, like looked back and forth a few times. And then the Rebbe asks me, he says, "Do you learn in Maristan?" So I said, "Yeah." So he says, "And do you like Tefillin Chalomit?" So I said, "Yeah." So he says, "In Maristan, they like Tefillin Chalomit?" So I say, "No." So he said, "And do you likes yeah?" So I said, "Yeah." That was the questions went back and forth. So he said, "But That's what I s- That's what I, I remember the Rebbe saying, even though I, I'm not really sure that it's, that, that it says that in Shulchan Aruch. But that's my recollection of Yechidas right now, and then also is that re- recollection of Yechidas.

22:49 Speaker 3 The Rebbe told you very clearly, not to.

22:52 Speaker 1 Clear, not to.

23:00 Speaker 3 The fact that you put on in the past, you should ask it of.

23:03 Speaker 1 Maybe what you should do now, maybe. Yeah.

23:05 Speaker 3 Like

23:07 Speaker 1 Whatever. I don't know. But that's what he told me. It was very clear. So I remember coming out of Yechidas feeling like very, like very, very elated, like the Rebbe, like by the Rebbe was a that I have no business putting on Tefillin Chalomit. I reme- I remember, remember walking out of Yechidas feeling very, uh, maybe the word accepted. I don't know if that's a right word, but like feeling like that, that the Rebbe was telling me that this is where you belong. You're not, you're not. Whatever, something like that. I, I'm telling you only my, my feelings, my at that point in time. This is all I think printed somewhere. I, I've said this over. Even though there's people that have all kinds of different, which I think is, is, But of this particular story. I don't really have much more to tell you. I mean...

24:12 Speaker 3 I have a question.

24:15 Speaker 1 Okay.

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26:08 Speaker 3 of Der Her through your financial support as well through visiting our website, derher.org, or through contacting us to setting up a meeting. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the podcast. My question is, so the Hishtalshelus Hatzarim and the story, how it happened, the, I just heard from you, and I, we, we, we once had an interview in Der Her and, uh, stuff printed in Chabad over the years. I've seen written things, uh, from you to this effect.

26:37 Speaker 4 The calculations?

26:39 Speaker 3 When I saw... That I don't remember already.

26:41 Speaker 4 Okay.

26:41 Speaker 3 I think I remember the Chabad article came out, and I was in Maristan. So I was reading it in Maristan about your-

26:47 Speaker 4 Oh.

26:47 Speaker 3 Learning in Maristan. But, um, uh, I also learned by, uh, the Melich. Um, so my question for you is, what is, I, what I, what I, I would like to understand is, you know, uh, Lakewood or Brisk or, or Lubavitch, and, and, and you, and you're not sure which one. So obviously, something's attracting you to Lubavitch. What, what, what is it?

27:17 Speaker 4 I, I, I can't really pinpoint it. It's not like, you know, you know, say it was a Tifa Zach, it was, you know... I don't think I was such a Tifa person, and I don't think I was such an Edel person. There was a certain, a certain... It's very hard for me to explain it. There were certain vibes, there were certain feelings by the Rebbe's Farbrengens, by feeling, by being part of the Rebbe's people was something which was very attractive, at-

27:47 Speaker 3 So what is it about the-

27:49 Speaker 4 Attracting to me

27:49 Speaker 3 What is it about the Rebbe's Farbrengens that attracted you?

27:51 Speaker 4 I don't know. I don't know exactly. I don't know exactly to be Mazbiu, to be Mazbiu. There's like a certain, uh... I, I, it's hard for me to explain and, and, I mean, maybe in my mind I could explain it, but to verbalize it would be difficult. There's a certain... Let me maybe try to put it a little like Edel. Maybe, maybe this is more than it really is. There is a Mitzius of a person that has a certain feeling, and there's a certain Mitzius of a person that's lost in a feeling. In other words, there's a Mitzius of you, you have a person that the Mitzius is there, it's just that the Tzir is somehow or another involved in the person. And then there's a Mitzius where the person becomes so lost in the Tzir that, that the whole person is only the Tzir. I, I'm not, may- I'm not explaining it well, and maybe I'm not, you know, understanding it well. But there's the same Mitzius of coming to Rebbe's Farbrengen, and there was a music that somehow or another you lost yourself. That there was a certain losing yourself, and it's like that this is really what it's all about. In other words, there's being yourself and then having this feeling, that feeling, but you all, you don't lose yourself. And then there's a Mitzius of somehow or another coming to a situation and losing yourself, losing yourself to the situation. I, I'm not gonna sp- You know, it's gonna sound like,

29:36 Speaker 4 you know, if, if holding by grace Madregas. It's very far from holding by big Madregas. But in a certain Zeh Rampin, that was the union, and that was also what Melich spoke about in that Farbrengen, Sheidish El. The Oymik of the... What he was speaking about was, I remember, I mean, I could just tell you BeKitzer, "Ein Sayar KeLikeinu SheTzar Tzura BeShetei Tzurai." He says there could be a Tzura of someone that's it, but that's only the Tzura of the person that's it. In order to be there, you have to be in there and, and, and to lose yourself there. But shake, and if you hold yourself in your Tzir, and you'd only have a, an external Tzir on your existing Tzir, so that's not it. I, I'm not really sure if this is the format to be discussing what I'm discussing right now, and I'm not really sure that what I'm saying is really so, uh, so clear or accurate.

30:38 Speaker 3 I'm not sure if I understand it.

30:39 Speaker 4 But I, I mean, I'm look-- I'm not sure you understand either. I'm looking, I'm looking at the expression on your face, and I'm trying to interpret the expression on your face. It looks a, reminds me a little bit of by Shir this morning when I was speaking with Shir. I'm, I'm trying to interpret.

30:57 Speaker 3 I hope, I hope one-

30:57 Speaker 4 Yeah

30:57 Speaker 3 ... person understood it.

30:59 Speaker 4 I know.

31:01 Speaker 3 So you think-

31:01 Speaker 4 Do you under- You think... I mean, is it clear a little bit what I'm saying?

31:05 Speaker 3 I think what you're saying is that That there's a nekuda of... I think the whole-- your whole approach to it was that you wanna be, you know, part of the, part of the Rebbe's minyan and part, part, part of the

31:25 Speaker 4 But you wanna lose yourself. You wanna lose yourself. There's-- You, you retain-- There's a mesirus of retaining yourself, and then, you know, adding some nice color to it. And there's a mesirus of, to some another you felt by the Rebbe that the nekuda sadvarim is to lose yourself into the minyan which is connected to the Ein Esther. Again, I don't wanna speak like we're talking about an high Madrega. Adkan, I think, uh-

32:00 Speaker 3 So, so-

32:01 Speaker 4 I think, I think we exhausted this

32:02 Speaker 3 ... so let me move on, but I, I, I think, are you saying that the experience bechav, forget about your journey, but the, the whole idea of being... Let, let's talk about the Rebbe's fabrengen for now. You're, you're by the Rebbe for, for five hours in this fabrengen. There's a certain, I mean, feeling that you have is probably one of being uplifted, but it's, it's s-something that you're, you're, you're taken out of your, of your, uh, whatever, whatever gashmiyus is going on by you a-and, and the Rebbe put-puts you in a, in a different place. Is that, is that, is that sort of-

32:37 Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, obviously, obviously it doesn't mean that during the fabrengen you can't have all kinds of machshavus and all kinds of, you know, going off on tangents with, with, uh, with farshid minyan. You know, it doesn't mean that way. You're not, you're not in a, in a-- You're, you're, you're not transfixed. You know, you can have all kinds of machshavus, machshavus zaris and all kinds of minyan. But there, there's a nekuda of the fabrengen, you know, with the Rebbe. W-With, with a certain nekuda of, of losing yourself, and that nekuda of losing yourself was something that, that, that was a certain feeling that could only be if you're part of it. You know, there's a famous vort that, that, uh, by Yisro, by Yishma Yisro, mash-mashmo Shamo Uvo, he heard, uh, uh, Rashi says Krias Yam Suf bemilchemes Amalek. The question is, what's pshat? So not a vort, the pshat is it was Krias Yam Suf. Krias Yam Suf was Gromegu kol yeshichnan. Everybody knew about Krias Yam Suf. Everybody knew about Krias Yam Suf, the gevaldigen of Krias Yam Suf. But lepeal, there was Amalek. Amalek also knew about Krias Yam Suf. So how was Amalek able to come after Krias Yam Suf? The answer is because Amalek heard from the Vaitians. From the Vaitians, he knew about it. It didn't change him. He himself remained himself. He just, he became aware of something of Krias Yam Suf. And then there was Uvo. Mashmo Shamo Uvo. Yisro realized that in order for something

34:15 Speaker 4 to happen, for him to really change, he has to be Uvo. So I'll tell it as, uh, you know, I remember the person trying to convince me that, uh, not to go learn in Lubavitch Yeshiva. He says, "I'm sure the Rebbe would want there should be like his people planted in all kinds of different places. I'm sure he has that interest of having, you know, person, you know, this yeshiva, that yeshiva, person connected to him. So the melech could be the ratzon of the Rebbe that you should be here." That, that I remember him saying. But I'm saying, what's the difference between being there? The-- Y-You're there. You know, you had a shichas a little bit. I was-- I went to the Rebbe, I heard the Rebbe, but it wasn't the same. It wasn't gantsen not the same. Because you're, you're, you're yourself, and you're an observer, and you're watching, and maybe you're taking in, and maybe you're taking more in, but it's not-- you're not part of it. A shanken being part of it i-is, is a whole different story, and that was a whole different experience. And that, that was worth to me more than maybe excelling in other minyanim that maybe I would have thought I would maybe wa-wanted that I could excel.

35:29 Speaker 3 So let's, um, maybe we should go back to the story a little bit. So you, you sta-you're, you stayed in Morristown then after that year with the Rebbe?

35:37 Speaker 4 I stayed for a year in Morristown. No, I went and stayed in Morristown that year. Tov shana lamed gimel. Then in tov shana lamed daled, I, uh, was in seven-seventy. I went to seven-seventy. And I was in seven-seventy.

35:54 Speaker 3 Um, for how many years?

35:57 Speaker 4 Till lamed tes.

35:59 Speaker 3 Oh, so it's a nice, nice amount of years. So who was the, uh... And in seven-seventy, what was, what was happening? Is it Rabiel? Like, what was the, uh-

36:09 Speaker 4 In seven-seventy, really, though, my first year in seven-seventy, I didn't really have anything to do with Rabiel 'cause, you know, actually, we were in Chevrah Teira, and Rabiel wasn't-- didn't give shiurim in seven-seventy. So really, a bachur could be in seven-seventy and not have anything to do with Rabiel. Um, tov shana lamed daled, tov shana lamed daled was the kipu mulcham, you know, that s-that, uh, that sukis was like a fabrengen ishm bukitzur. Al kor ponim, a lot of things happened in lamed daled. But in lamed hei, we-- there was a group of... A lot of bochurim went then the Rebbe sent the shluchim to Eretz Yisroel and to, and to, and to, to France and to Montreal. There were a lot of shluchim sent those years. Let, let me put it this way. In, in tov shana lamed daled, from the cheder that I was in Morristown, a n- a, a good-- a group of bochurim went to Miami. That's when the Yeshiva Miami began. Label Shapiro went to Miami, like eleven b-- ten, eleven bochurim went from that cheder in Morristown to Miami Then the rest of the Bochum went to 770. And, um, then in Tov Shen Lammed Heh, a group of Bochurims, also including our share, went to Ocean Parkway. Ocean Parkway, there was like always a group of Bochurim going to Ocean Parkway through Machaneze Ocean Parkway, and the comeback of that was that Rabbi Yael would be the Mashpiach. And Rabbi Yael would come to give a share in

37:52 Speaker 4 Ocean Parkway. And that's when I learned, started learning by Rabbi Yael. That's when I got to know Rabbi Yael. That was in Lammed Heh.

37:59 Speaker 3 So you're one, you're one of the Bochurim that went to Ocean Parkway?

38:01 Speaker 4 Yeah, yep, yep, yep. I was one of the Bochurim that went to Ocean Parkway. And then we were there Lammed Heh, and then Lammed Lamed. We came back to 770, and then we were there, the Lammed Lamed on the side, whatever. We were there in 770 all those years. Those years in 770.

38:22 Speaker 3 And during those years, what was your, like coming from, coming from where you came from and then being in 770, there's, there's different attractions that people have. Some of it, it's, uh, Tanachuk and everything that the Rebbe is doing. Some people it's the Fabregen. Some people it's, uh, um, Mevtalim. I don't know, what- whatever it is, what, what was the thing that, like anchored you that, that you're there?

38:51 Speaker 4 I, I'm not really sure how to answer the question. In Tov Shen Lammed Vav, Gerada, Parshas Mishpatim started the new, uh, Vaad Hanochas Hatmimin, which was really strongly initiated by Herschel Notik, was very strongly involved in it. And then there was-

39:11 Speaker 3 Can you, can you explain a little bit? What, what was happening before? What was happening? What was the need to reestablish?

39:15 Speaker 4 There were always... There, there, there used to be Hanochas. Rabbi Yael used to write down Hanochas.

39:20 Speaker 3 Okay.

39:20 Speaker 4 Then Rabbi Yael didn't write so much the Hanochas in a regular way. Then there was a Kufa, different people wrote the Hanochas. But the Hanochas weren't coming out regularly. There wasn't like a... There, there used to be Hanochas, a musig of the Hanochas written down in Yiddish through the, what I- would be called the Vaad Hanochas Hatmimin, and those Hanochas stopped coming out regularly. They were coming out periodically. I'm not really sure who would be involved in giving out those Hanochas. But, um, from really Tov Shen Lammed Daled is when Dovid Feldman came from Eretz Yisrael to America as a bachur, and he would give out on his own, mamash on his own without anybody, he would give out in Loshna Kodesh the Hanochas. He would give out the Hanochas in Loshna Kodesh with more of a kitzer, not so, not so uzgarbit from what he wrote during Chazar by Rabbi Yael. But there wasn't, the gather of Hanochas Hatmimin didn't happen anymore. And then in Tov Shen Lammed Vav, it was reestablished. And then Dovid Feldman would write the Sichas. Zvi Greenblatt would write the Mamorin. Uh, Herschel Notik would be doing a lot of typing and being involved in a lot of things. There would be, uh, Icky, Icky Posner was the menail of like the, the, the money of, of, of, of what the Mesiv needed. Uh, there was Avraham Grossbaum was something over there. I don't remember exactly. There were different people that, uh, worked over there. Among all those people

41:05 Speaker 4 that worked over there, I worked also a little over there. I was involved a little bit in writing the Mar Makemis for the Sichas a little bit. And we didn't have that time, you know. Today is, is much easier, you know, with the computers and others. That time, you know, we would have to sit down, we would go. I remember like it would be like a night, spending a night in the, in the Levi Yitzchok Library downstairs over there with the different Svarim that, you know, different Svarim that would help us maybe find things. And, uh, that's all we do. So that was a little bit of involvement for a few years, Lammed Vav, Lammed Zayin, Lammed Ches, in these Hanochas. I'm just telling you this is a Zaide thing. And then, you know, we learn. I mean, we had to learn some study.

41:50 Speaker 3 I imagine you only got involved in that because you were, uh, someone that was be able-- following the Fabregen.

42:00 Speaker 4 All right. Well, I don't know. I'm not sure where she meant to learn Fabregen.

42:05 Speaker 3 No, you were-

42:05 Speaker 4 And I heard-

42:06 Speaker 3 ... following it. I was saying you were-

42:07 Speaker 4 Yeah, it wasn't so much to get to follow the Rebbe. There was, there was things they wrote, and then you had to find the Mar Makemis. The Rebbe would call a Chazal, the, uh, Gemara, they would, uh, Nachrenim, they would Shulchan Aruch, Rambam. The Rebbe wouldn't say where, you know. So you have to find it. You have to find it, and sometimes it wasn't easy to find it. I remember the Rebbe one time taking a Hanocha, which w- was given out by Hanochas Hatmimin, and the Rebbe like going through it Mar Makemis and like, you know, like saying, you know, you say Gemara, they say Gemara, whatever. It was like, uh, wasn't very happy about.

42:47 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm. And-

42:51 Speaker 4 This is not by Bochurim. No, it's like, uh-

42:54 Speaker 3 But you, you weren't-

42:55 Speaker 4 You know-

42:55 Speaker 3 You weren't, uh, yeah.

42:57 Speaker 4 I wasn't, uh... I was just helping a little bit. I wasn't the person, the guy you mentioned though.

43:05 Speaker 3 You weren't, you weren't part of the Chazara?

43:08 Speaker 4 I could go to Chazara probably, but, uh, had nothing to do with the Chazara. In, in other words, to do what I did, I didn't have to be about Chazara.

43:19 Speaker 3 Right. So you just had to work off the, uh, off the Hanocha. You had to, you have, you have to know some Torah though. That helps a little bit. One of the integral components of being a Hasid are the Chassidishe Yamim Tovim and Yemei Depagra. Whether it's Hey Teves, Yud Shevat, Yud Alef Nissan, or Gimel Tammuz. These days give us an opportunity to connect with our Rabbeim, to connect with each other, and be better Hasidim. What is the story behind each of these days? How did the Rebbe commemorate and celebrate these days? And most importantly, what are the lessons, the takeaways, and the action items, HaMa'aseh Hu Ha'Ikker needed for each of these days? All of this and much, much more are answered in the new set recently published by Der Her. Our Days is a journey through the Chabad calendar in story, meaning, and practice. With over seven hundred beautiful glossy pages with elevated content, beautiful, beautiful photographs, you, your family, and friends will enjoy and live with each Chassidishe Yamim Tov. This book is a must for every Lubavitcher home, for every shul, for every school. It is a perfect gift item. This will not collect dust. It will be used day after day, month after month, year after year. You can have this set. Go to derher.org/ourdays, order your set today and start living like Chassidishe Yamim Tov. After-- So afterwards, I mean, you stayed in Crown Heights all the years. You were, you worked at-

45:12 Speaker 4 I, I was teaching in Ohel Torah.

45:14 Speaker 3 Ohel Torah the whole time.

45:15 Speaker 4 Started teaching in Ohel Torah. Yeah.

45:18 Speaker 3 That's what you did the whole time when you were in Crown Heights?

45:21 Speaker 4 Yes. From-

45:23 Speaker 3 So you had a, I mean-

45:24 Speaker 4 The Elul of Lamet Tess. Elul Lamet Tess, I went into Ohel Torah.

45:30 Speaker 3 Okay. So, and that's a, I mean, it's a unique thing because you're, you're married and you're in Crown Heights and you're... But, but you still-- You, you didn't leave. You're still there every Shabbos. Like, it's a, it's a, that's a, that's a unique thing. Um, so my question for you is maybe we'll move on to, I mean, your dealings from Lamet Tess till today with Bachrim, right? Ohel Torah and then Manchester and now Chabad. Um, so my, my question is, um, I know you farbling a lot for Bachrim. And what are the... My question is, what is the... What are you... What, what, what's the main thing that you try to, you think is important to impart to Bachrim? I don't know about today or amol or always, like what, what's something that, that either is lacking or that needs, uh, needs to be strengthened? Which, which by-- But the Bachrim by extension means everyone, because we were all Bachrim once and these are things that are kayem la'ad. Um...

46:59 Speaker 4 I mean, the Maiseh says in today's world, I think it's very important for a Bachir to know that his shayas, I mean, maybe it's more because of my background. He, he has to really appreciate that he really has a pnimi ytidka shayas with the Rebbe. This is very important, like a Bachir should understand. You know, a Bachir in the Yuds didn't have to impress upon himself that he had a shayas with the Rebbe. The Rebbe, the Rebbe was there for him. The Rebbe was there. He's... Leike, Leiber Raskin didn't have to think that the Rebbe's, that the Rebbe knows who he is and the Rebbe's caring about him, et cetera, et cetera. And not Shimon Kalazerov, and not Rabbi Yael, and not Tachaysver. All these people were there. And now there is, uh, Shlay Misarki, which was later. But, but as it went in the Lameds, so then there could be a mitzios of a Bachir that wasn't really sure whether the Rebbe knows who he is. There could be a mitzios of a Bachir that wasn't really sure if the Rebbe knows who he is, and certainly the Memes. And then now there's now. So a Bachir has to understand this, this concept, this understanding. Understand. He has to, he has to really impress upon himself. It's just like, uh, you know, the Avester is miyached malchus li'alam Yisroel bechlal v'olav befrat ki chay avadum leimer bashvil li nivra elom. So a person has to know that there is a personal relationship between him

48:40 Speaker 4 and the Avester. It's not like the Avester is looking at him as if, uh, like, just a number. This keel v'olav befrat ki chay avadum leimer bashvil li nivra elom. So alder azet tzadikim deim libeiram. There's a musig that there is a relationship between every Bachir and every Hasid and every Yid with the Rebbe, and the, and, and that's a true and something which is true. It's not something which is morgish. It's not something which you feel regularly, naturally. It's something which you have to work on to understand that that's the truth. And, and a person has to realize that the truth doesn't depend on our irrigation. Because we have to realize that there's a truth which is not totally in our irrigation. And, you know, we could try to be margish this truth. We could try to develop a certain, you know, a feeling of bringing this truth closer to ourselves. But that doesn't mean that the truth is dependent. It's not contingent on the way we feel. And that's something which we always have to talk about. We have to talk about this idea that this, that, that, that, that this, every Bachir and every person is very, very dear and very personal connection to the Rebbe. And, and you know, you can make a kal v'chemer, maybe a kal v'chemer. If the Rebbe spoke so much in the Hei Tevis about the Sefer which is connected to the Rebbe, a Sefer which is connected to the Rebbe, that is part of the

50:07 Speaker 4 Rebbe. So how much lehura more so a Bachir or a Yid that's the Rebbe's a Yid, how much he's part of the Rebbe? If a Sefer is part of the Rebbe, so, uh, so a Bakar is part of the Rebbe, and he has to understand that. And then he has to understand that he has and he, and he, and he has the ability to be able to, to, to bring that out, and the idea is that a person, you know, the Rebbe gives us the Rebbe... You know, the idea of the, the Rebbe wants to be... You know, we and the Rebbe are not two things. It's not that there's a Rebbe and there's us, and we, we... I remember saying over from some safer that, that, uh, you know, there's a question if you want to ask to, to, to, to, to beseech upon you, you know, So what about asking a Rebbe? So the answer is, when you're going to a Rebbe, you're not going to someone else. So the dogma is, he says, "You have a problem with your foot." So your head is asking for your foot. Why is your head asking for your foot? The foot, the foot is the problem. But the answer is because the head and the foot are one thing. If there's a problem with the foot, is the problem that is in the head. The head feels the problem with the foot. So a person understands that his relationship to the Rebbe, and he has

51:43 Speaker 4 to like... It's not something which is... What, what I'm saying right now is not something I'm saying because I have a herdish. We have to realize the truth. We have to realize the truth, that this is the truth, the truth the way it says in Torah, the way... The truth the way it says in Tanya, the way it says in Siddhis. And then we have to bring that truth into ourselves, to think about the truth and internalize the truth, and to understand that that's our truth. Whether we feel the truth, we don't feel the truth, we have to try to become closer to that truth. And I think that's what we have to about. Of course, we have to about doing the right things and knowing what, what, what's expected of us. We have to about that as well. I mean, everybody in his and Yan, you know, going, you know, doing the things that are expected of him. But there is a certain general idea which, uh, is something which should also be discussed. It's... Again, it could be it's connected to my general, you know, So maybe I have more of a in it of-

52:52 Speaker 5 What do you mean it's connected?

52:53 Speaker 4 Part of the Rebbe. I'm saying that, that what brought me here in the first place-

52:58 Speaker 5 So why-

52:58 Speaker 4 You see him-

52:59 Speaker 5 So why is it, why is it so important to feel that or to know that?

53:07 Speaker 4 Why is this important to know? I think that's really the first thing of a Hasid. The first thing of a Hasid is that he understands. In other words, a, a, a, a, a, a first thing of a Yid is to understand that his is that is the first That's the first That his are different. They're not. I'm a, a re- a regular Hasid, and I just have different obligations. I have different, I have different, uh, uh, mitzvahs. Person has to realize there is That, that's the So a Hasid has to realize that his connection to the Rebbe is an connection. And then, you know, of course, you, you have... It's not connection. But and you wanna do this, and you don't wanna do that, and you, and, and you don't actually, you know, actualize this actual connection which, which we know about. But at least, first of all, we have to know it in our brain, and then we have to see to it maybe to, to, to bring it down into myself, and hopefully to bring it up in our heart as well. I mean, that's what I'm saying.

54:35 Speaker 5 So, so what does a Bakar do, uh, pa- uh, any person? What does a person do to, um... I mean, there's a idea you have to know about it. What, what, what's some... What's something, what's something that a person could do to... I mean, I, I, I know you don't... You said not hagation, but obviously if you feel it, then it's more... It has a, a not only to your but also to your and as your emotions are involved. What does a, what does someone do to and, and arouse this?

55:13 Speaker 4 Okay. So there's, there's, these are the that a person has to be, a person... The first is you have to know about it. Then a person could think about what the Rebbe did for him. You know, every person has his, you know, particular story, a little story, a little hair, his father, his mo- You know, people from you know, what the Rebbe did for all kinds of different people. In other words, a person is, is a and those things that are this level of Abba, this level of Abba. I, I'm reminding myself So, uh, I just remem- my mother in The summer of Lamed He had an operation, and they gave her a mismatch of blood, which means they gave her the wrong blood, and that had caused that her kidneys to stop working. This was in Tosh Lamed He. And like she was a because she was in a hospital that they didn't have a dialysis. And somehow or another, I'm not really sure how my father was told that they should get her to be moved from that hospital. It was through Twersky from Borough Park, and I called upon him, and, uh, she was moved to Downstate Hospital where she had a dialysis, but she was on a dialysis, and it was like... It, it was like in a very, very schwer matter. And they wanted to do a certain test on her, which I wasn't really sure it made sense to do the test. I was a bachur then. So I

57:06 Speaker 4 remember running to seven seventy and going into Merkos to write down a tzedakah to the Rebbe, to ask the Rebbe whether I should make the test, whether I should make the test. And I wanted to put like some money into the panim, asking a bracha. So I had like twenty dollars in my pocket. So I put twenty dollars into that tzedakah, and I gave it to Leibel Groner. Now, Leibel told me that the Rebbe is really about to leave. The Rebbe was about to go home. He was gonna go home like the, the afternoon. The, the Rebbe would go home in the afternoon for an hour, like four thirty or something. And I probably started crying and saying that it's like really, really an emergency. So he took the tzedakah and he walked over to the door, I remember, to the Rebbe's door, knocked on the door. The Rebbe opened the door, and he gave the Rebbe the tzedakah. And like a minute or so later, the Rebbe came out, and on the way out, he gave, he gave Leibel Groner, I don't know if it was only that tzedakah or maybe other tzedakah as well with an answer. And the answer was, I should, we should do it. Maybe ask probably. And then the Rebbe sent out... I remember instead of the twenty dollar bill, he sent out a ten and two fives, and he said that they should give me a Kabbalah from maybe Lishkas Hachashoin, I think was the, was the name

58:41 Speaker 4 of the receipt. Which sounded very funny, you know, twenty dollars, a bachur, you know, getting a Kabbalah. It didn't make sense to me, like Lishkas Hachashoin. So I understood that somehow the Rebbe wants I should have something from him to bring to my mother. That's that, that, that's what I understood. So I remember taking the, the receipt and putting it under her pillow. And, uh, the you know, things... I, I now remember. I'm not saying immediately, but the one of the kidneys started reworking. She lived like another, another ten years actually after that. But I called upon him. I'm just, I'm just giving you a, a little story of something where people had, you know... You know, the Rebbe's on his way out, and I'm, I'm not saying like, you know, it's . You know, it's like, it's not like, you know, like everything is always . You know, let's give him, give him a Kabbalah. Give him a Kabbalah was... You have to, you know, you have to understand that the Rebbe's giving me something. It's like he's giving me something. It's like, you know, these little, little things of the Rebbe which-

59:53 Speaker 6 There-

59:54 Speaker 4 Which you, you, you don't notice. You don't... Uh, you have to just think about it. Think about where the Rebbe would like take up an extra like time. I mean, while I'm here, I'll tell you another story, which, you know, sometimes stories are good. My father, I don't remember him ever being by the Rebbe's farbrengen, bachlah kimat, and certainly not on a mitzo yontif. But for some reason or another, there was one time that he was there on a mitzo yontif, and, um, maybe it was Pesach, and he was staying at my house. Not, I'm not a hundred percent sure really what, what the circumstances were. And the Rebbe made Havdalah. And my father, you know, heard Havdalah from the Rebbe, but he was thinking whether or not he should be yotzer because my sister, he needed to make Havdalah probably for my sister, and you know, sis-- W- women normally don't make Havdalah themselves, and if, if he's gonna hear Havdalah, so he's not gonna be able to be yotzer her. So he wasn't really sure, but the Rebbe's making Havdalah, sh-should he be yotzer or not? So in his mind, he decided that I'll make a tznah, that if I'm gonna make Havdalah later for my daughter, is this... So then I won't be yotzer. And if I won't m- make Havdalah later, then I will be yotzer. That was the tznah that he made in his mind when the Rebbe started making Havdalah. And then made Havdalah. And then, you know, everyone

1:01:24 Speaker 4 went for kiddush ha'chava, and he also went for kiddush ha'chava. I don't know what, uh, you know, it was a... He went for kiddush ha'chava. And normally, to give kiddush ha'chava, the Rebbe would just pour kiddush ha'chava, and people would go by. But when he w- got kiddush ha'chava, so the Rebbe turned to him and asked him, "Why isn't he drinking the wine?" Which is very unusual. Very, very, very unusual. So my father got very mevorol, and he, he just started taking the wine to his mouth. So the Rebbe said, "." My father told me he wouldn't have made a bracha 'cause he was like so mevorol. He wouldn't have made a bracha. So he, so he made a bracha, "Borei pri hagafen." I imagine the Rebbe answered amen. Said l'chaim, and then he drank it, so obviously, he didn't make Havdalah. But somehow or another, it was like the Rebbe took an interest Like no one would know this, but the Rebbe took an interest for my father to be yesiv velt from him. That was, uh, according, that's the only beer. Somehow or another, it was, the Rebbe felt it was important to the Rebbe. You know, this is like tomim of the seconds that's going on for the Rebbe to be interested in him being yesiv velt from him. That's bechor. I mean, I didn't see any other beer. I mean,

1:02:52 Speaker 5 Were there, were there other instances that you, uh, saw the Rebbe's interest with you personally? I know there was later in Tav Shon En Beis. I mean, is it, was there o- was there other things?

1:03:07 Speaker 4 There were times the Rebbe gave very, very warm brachos to me in different, different in- instances. Um, not something I can really talk about right now.

1:03:24 Speaker 5 You, you don't wanna share?

1:03:26 Speaker 4 It's not I won't wanna share. I'd like to share, but it's all right. It's, um, not tzu glattik.

1:03:34 Speaker 5 Okay. Um, so, so this is something that, uh, I guess it's an aveida that, uh, that people should strive to, to achieve. I- I'm gonna ask you a question. When you were bachur-

1:03:48 Speaker 4 I, I wanna, I wa- May I, let me just say one more thing. I think a person has to also be misbonen in how much the Rebbe gave away from himself for us on a regular, regular basis. On a regular basis. I mean, you know, the Rebbe was involved totally. In other words, I'm gonna say something w- maybe sounds very, very stupid, and it's... And I think I said it to people, but they look at me like a little bit funny. You know, the Rebbe's room was a very small room, and everyone knows the way it was the, all the years, the Rebbe's room. Now the Rebbe's room is empty, but the Rebbe's room was piled up with seforim. It was like full of seforim. There was like, y- you'd walk into yechidas, there would be seforim on the floor till the chutz was covered over with papers. And the table was clear because they cleared it for yechidas, but n- normally the table wasn't clear either. The Rebbe, the Rebbe normally by the table never sat by the place where he sat by yechidas. He had a, like a little corner of his table where he sat on a regular chair, and that's where he would write. That's where he would write. Maybe when, when the maskir would come in and he would have to dictate, the chutz could be he sat in his chair. I don't, I don't know how it worked. I don't know how it worked, but I imagine. So the

1:05:12 Speaker 4 Rebbe was there. So like, you think to yourself like a regular Purim, like think Purim. The Rebbe would, Purim would daven in the morning, 10 to 12. 12 o'clock pretty much he'd be finished davening. He'd go up to his room. He'd give tzedakah mamonus. Then he would come in Mishpinchas Katz, Matanos L'evyonim, and all kinds of, you know, things happening in Purim. And then whatever the Rebbe's sdarim was, and then it would be Mincha. Mincha would be 3:15. And after Mincha, sometime after Mincha, the Rebbe would go home to Seudas Purim, which didn't take very long. An hour, whatever, like a regular afternoon. And then the Rebbe would come back to his room. Well, in the room, he didn't, didn't come down back to a couch. He didn't go back to a recliner. He didn't go back to a rocking chair. He went back to the regular room, which was full, full of seforim, which he had a little, little corner in his, of the desk that he could write on or put a sefer over there with a regular chair, and that's where he would spend the next few hours until the fabrengen. Till the fabrengen. You know, everyone knows you, you have one of fabrengens. You have to fabrengen today, so you have to wanna maybe lie down a little bit , wanna rest a little bit. There was no resting. There was no gesheftn. The Rebbe was constantly involved in trying, in, in doing his, his aveida, which wh- whenever the Rebbe,

1:06:40 Speaker 4 Rebbe's aveidas. Whether learning and davening and writing and answering and doing. Just to think about it. Just to think about it. And here, we are here, and, and the Rebbe wants to, to, to, to, to encourage us and to connect to us, and we should connect to him, and he should connect to us, and we should bring Mashiach down. That's what the Rebbe wants. That's, that's what the Rebbe's all about. That's what Emet is all about. That's what Chinuch Atid is all about. So I think if we think about it in a more personal, real fashion, may- maybe I'm talk- maybe talking too hakshama dik. It, it could bring down a shtikel, uh, epes, epes, a shtikel shaychus la'alev gam.

1:07:29 Speaker 5 And-

1:07:30 Speaker 4 I'm, I'm, but I'm looking at your expression. When you have these expressions, I'm not really sure how to interpret them.

1:07:36 Speaker 5 I am enjoying every word.

1:07:38 Speaker 4 Uh-huh. Okay. Very good.

1:07:40 Speaker 5 Um, when, when you're, um, when you were a bachur in '70, I mean, you said this story with your mother, and this type of-

1:07:48 Speaker 4 Uh

1:07:48 Speaker 5 ... ave- ave what you're describing, is that something that you felt then, or it's something that developed over the years?

1:07:56 Speaker 4 I think I felt it then, you know. I think I felt it then. Maybe I developed it over the years as well, but I think I felt it then.

1:08:07 Speaker 5 So is it ch- is it more challenging today after Gemara Tamuz to feel it than it was, uh, when, when you, when you were a bachur in se- in seven 70?

1:08:18 Speaker 4 I mean, I would say in today's world, there are Bochurim that are moser venossum to the Rebbe, not any less than a Moliker Bochurim. That's what I feel. You know, our Bochurim need guidance. We always needed guidance. You always needed guidance. But there's a certain Ismasros, which is a tifa tifa Ismasros. It just has to be guided in a way that it should be the way, the right way. You know, people have a, a stark Ismasros and, and goes out into all kinds of Yoni Teyu and things of Yedikas Hachitzanim. And you need to have, uh, uh, guidance, and you have to have also people that are Bari Deah and loyal to the Rebbe and normal, normal in the sense of having a Deah Yishara and, and, and, and Nemanim Gitrai to the Rebbe and, uh, doing the right things. That's, that's what we need. But the, the Bochurim are a keli for it. Just the problem is that there's all kinds of Fashidne Ruchis which are, uh, which are causing people, you know, from people that are maybe, whatever, either not so Gitrai or not so normal, if, if you're allowed to say such a thing. You have to have normale Gitraia people that are dedicated and loyal to the Rebbe in a real, real way, and being Hasidim, not, not Balabatis, Hasidim.

1:09:59 Speaker 5 Um, I think you're talking about a Bochur that's interested, and he's saying that he should go on the, on the, on the proper Derech, I guess. What about, what, what about a Bochur that he's not so into it? Like, like is that more prevalent or, or more of a challenge today? Or what do you say to such a Bochur?

1:10:26 Speaker 4 I, I'm not sure what you could say to him. I think what we have to do is do. I mean, I, I'll, I'll share with you just a story that, uh, I heard not from a Lubavitcher source, and I told someone the so- story, and then the person told me a Lubavitcher story connected to the source. I'll tell you both stories. The first story was a story that I just heard lately from... on a WhatsApp from a, from a Daf Yomi Shir. The person said a story as though that there was a person that was... It was a Sheva Berachos or a Bar Mitzvah, I'm not sure, and this person was, like I said, a wealthy person, the person who was making the party, and he had an expensive, very expensive two-liter bottle of wine. He, he said the name of the wine. I don't, I don't... I didn't-- I don't remember the name of the wine, but it sounded like we're talking about an, a bottle of wine, in my mind, the way he described it, it was a bottle of wine that wasn't less than a thousand dollars. Such a bottle of wine. And then someone working in the kitchen went ahead and opened the cork, opened the bottle, and the Mashgiach saw it. The Mashgiach just saw this person an hour ago or so being Mechalel Shabbos with another group of other people. He was smoking. This person probably was officially a Prum boy, but he was being Mechalel Shabbos, unfortunately. And

1:11:58 Speaker 4 he saw it, the Mashgiach saw it. Mashgiach was an Ehrlicher Yid, and in his mind, Mechalel Shabbos, the ch-

1:12:05 Speaker 5 Charedi

1:12:06 Speaker 4 ... his wine is Yayin Nesech. So he opened the bottle of wine, and the wine is obviously not Mevushal with him. It's such expensive wine. So he took this big bottle of wine, and he poured it down the sink like a good Jew. But then he was also a good Jew. He goes over to the Balabus of the, of the, uh, of the event, and he tells him what happened. He says, "You know, this and this person..." I don't know if he told him the name of the person that actually opened the wine, but he said someone opened the wine. He saw this person being Mechalel Shabbos, so he felt it was Yayin Nesech, and he poured this wine down the sink. So the guy tells him, "You did very good. You did the right thing. I appreciate it. And you could tell the other person, whoever he is, that I have no ta'anas to him because he also did the right thing. He opened the bottle of wine. He didn't realize that he's making the wine Yayin Nesech. Nobody meant to do anything wrong. And, you know, we'll just pass by it." And that's the end of that story. This guy was very impressed, the Mashgiach, of this person's reaction, so he goes over to the worker, and he tells the worker, "I wanna tell you that I told the boss, I tell you, I saw you open the bottle of wine. I saw you smoking a cigarette an hour before. As a result

1:13:18 Speaker 4 of that, I poured the bottle of wine down the sink. I told the boss about it. The boss said I did very well. He told me to tell you, not that he kn- knows who you are, that you also did fine. No worry about it. The reason I'm telling it to you is you should know that there are nice people in the world, and you should one day also be nice to somebody." That was the end of the story over there. Two years later, this Mashgiach meets this person, and this person tells the Mashgiach, "I wanna tell you that that story, you know, you saw me being Mechalel Shabbos, unfortunately, but since then, I was never Mechalel Shabbos because of that story." This is a story that I just heard two days ago. So I told it over to somebody. I don't remember who I said it over to. I don't remember who I said it over to. So the person tells me that there's such a story in the Mechi Wilhelm, the Mechi Wilhelm in Thailand. He was... There was Rosh Hashanah, and they had a big Ohel of Rosh Hashanah, yeah, a few hundred people. And Rosh Hashanah in the morning, someone comes over to him and asks him to blow Shofar for him. So he says, "Why blow Shofar? We're gonna blow Shofar-- We're going to Dallas, so we only hear Shofar then." He says, "No, no. I have a flight that I have to catch. But before I go on the

1:14:43 Speaker 4 flight, I wanna hear Shofar because if I promise someone or whatever, I wanna hear Shofar." Mechi said, "Mechi had a shtickel conversation with him. What's the rush to have this flight? You really had the flight?" He says, "Listen, you stay here for Rosh Hashanah, and I'll pay you for your flight after Rosh Hashanah. I'll, I'll pay for it." The guy listened. He said, "Okay." So he stayed for Rosh Hashanah, and Mechi paid for his flight. And four weeks later, he calls up Mechi and he says, "I wanna tell you that I wasn't a Shame of and I was able to fly on Rosh Hashanah. It was no problem. But since then, for the last four Shabbats, I didn't... I wasn't Mechalel Shabbos." These are two little stories, which is a little bit, a little inspiration to us in how we try to influence people. In other words, to show that we care and we're interested. I'm, I'm not s- I'm not saying that we don't have to explain things to them. But, uh, I figure, let me share this with you. I hope I'm not taking up too much of your time.

1:15:51 Speaker 7 You're saying this in to what I asked about a bachur that needs to-

1:15:57 Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think, I think if a bachur feels that you really care for him, you really care for him, and that he's-- y- you have an interest in him, and you're willing to do something for him, so, so there's a reciprocal, uh, relationship. There has to be a, a, a sincere interest. A sincere interest. And that's really, you know, the success of the shluchim are also when you, when you, when you, when you really show that person you're interested in them. You're really interested in them. You're really trying to help them. You're not, you're not, you're not trying, you know, like someone asks someone, "Are you gonna get any brownie points if I put on tefillin or something?" "Well, I'm really interested in you putting on tefillin." And, and let's say I'm not really interested in putting on tefillin, so you have to try to develop an interest. You have to develop an interest. You're really interested that this bachur should understand how to learn. You're really interested that this bachur should develop a certain relationship with the Rebbe. You're interested that this bachur should, should, should have up some more of a connection to . So you have to work on yourself. That you have to, you have to work on yourself, that you should have that interest. It's not so much working on him. It's more working on yourself.

1:17:20 Speaker 7 I was gonna say, takes, takes a lot of, obviously, . The hanhalas need to have a lot of .

1:17:26 Speaker 4 Right. We do. That's what has to happen. To have a lot of , you have to have a lot of . You have to have dedication. You have to realize that what you're doing is important. That's the first thing. You have to realize that what you're doing is very, very important. Very, very important. You know, there's certain people... I remember, I mean, so maybe it's not nice to, like, say so. I remember once being by the oil, had a person come and go over to me. And whatever he's, he's... He comes over to me. I know who he is. He never learned by me. And he tells me, he goes, "I wanna tell you," he says, "I learned in Olat Harin, and I was in Shir Dalet, and I was, like, not really a bachur of learning in Shir Dalet. It was a that I'm not going on shlichus after Shir Dalet." I mean, you know, my father has a business. His father has a business. I'm not gonna say his name, but his father is a, is a very, very fine David. And he has... He's a, he's a, he's a , and he has a good business. And it was a that he is gonna join his father's business. And then we had a fabrengen. We had a fabrengen. And whatever something was said by the fabrengen during that fabrengen that touched him. Like, what do you really want your children to look like? You know, I think that was the . What,

1:18:50 Speaker 4 what do you really want your children? In other words, if you wanna know what you really want, you wanna know what do you want your children to look like. Do you want your children to look like you, or do you want your children to look like someone else? And if you want your children to look like someone else, so maybe you have to think about being that someone else. And then, and maybe, maybe that was the of the fabrengen. And somehow or another, there was somebody who was a fabrengen, someone, someone who was . And it really very much hit home. And he came that night, and he made a, he made a decision that he wants to go on shlichus. But it was no shайnes to go on shlichus. I mean, he was, he was a, he was comple- a complete failure in Shir Dalet. And then he went to the that time, and, uh, and, and he spoke to him, and the guy, like, left him. "What are you telling me? There's nothing to talk about." No, this and that. Later on, I found out, he didn't tell me that he wrote to the Rebbe, and it was like a whole happening. he went on shlichus. He went on shlichus. And he tells me he was hundreds of people. That's what he tells me. This guy's telling me. He's not on shlichus right now. He's, uh, he's, uh, uh, I think he's working. But he was like-

1:19:59 Speaker 7 You're talking about a bachur shlichus.

1:20:01 Speaker 4 No, he wasn't. He went on a bachur shlichus.

1:20:03 Speaker 7 Bachur shlichus.

1:20:04 Speaker 4 But then now as a, as a , I'm not 100% sure if he's on shlichus or not as a . I'm not sure. I don't... I'm not sure. Not sure. But he told me he was of many people, maybe hundreds of . He was of many people since then, and he's saying it's all because of that fabrengen that they-- we were sitting together and, and he was touched. What happened? It was, it was, it was all . It was like a certain... Because you have to, you have to, you have to try to, to, uh, impose upon someone, give them a little bit of your heart. I think... I mean, I'm not sure if I'm in the position to, to stop this, uh, conversation, but that I spoke more than I really wanted to say. I probably said more things than I wanted to say, but I didn't say anything which anyone's gonna have taines to me that I said. But, uh-

1:21:02 Speaker 7 I, I, I think it's more popular when people-

1:21:03 Speaker 4 Is that all right? Was that some-

1:21:04 Speaker 7 I think it's more popular when you say things that people don't wanna hear. I think that, uh, that makes it more popular.

1:21:10 Speaker 4 I hear you. I hear you.

1:21:11 Speaker 7 Okay. So we'll have to-

1:21:12 Speaker 4 I hear you

1:21:12 Speaker 7 ... we'll have to do a, a part two when you're ready to do that.

1:21:16 Speaker 4 I hear you. I hear you.

1:21:17 Speaker 7 Okay. Yes, okay, Rabbi Wohlberg.

1:21:21 Speaker 4 Thanks.

1:21:21 Speaker 7 And, uh, you should be in your shlichus, and, uh, we should all be in our shlichus, and, uh, that's it. Thank you very much.

1:21:33 Speaker 4 Amen. Amen. You're very welcome. All the best.