Ep. 20: Sukkos & Simchas Torah By The Rebbe with Rabbi Yisroel Noach Vogel

00:00 Speaker 1 I have never ever seen a dance like that. and it was jumping. I mean, begoshmes, how's that? First Mem-ches, how's that? It's pushing, jumping. I will not forget, at one point, I saw the Rebbe's shoes in the air. He was jumping so much.

00:26 Speaker 2 If you've been enjoying this podcast, please like and subscribe so that others can enjoy it as well. In addition, if you've benefited in any way from Among Chassidim podcast and would like to give something back, you can do so today at derher.org/donate. I'm Yossi Kamen. Welcome to Among Chassidim by Der Her, an ongoing farbrengen about life as a Chassid, our vibrant connection with the Rebbe, and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. Okay, fine. So we'll move-- So now we have, uh, the Dalet Yamim Shebein, uh, Rosh Hashanah.

01:14 Speaker 1 Shemini Atzeret.

01:15 Speaker 2 Shemini Kipa DeSukkot. Which is, uh, everyone's-- What's the lashon? Esrim b'mitzvot or-

01:23 Speaker 1 Esrim b'mitzvot

01:24 Speaker 2 ... Sukkot b'mitzvot.

01:25 Speaker 1 So Rishon L'Chodesh Elul is only the first day, uh, Sukkot.

01:28 Speaker 2 Right.

01:32 Speaker 1 Um, again, before Lamed-- before Mem-ches, those days were quite unevent-uneventful, I would say. Um-

01:44 Speaker 2 Before Mem-ches. Oh, you're saying the Rebbe-

01:47 Speaker 1 When the Rebbe changed and-

01:48 Speaker 2 Didn't see the Rebbe, right

01:49 Speaker 1 ... well, things changed. Didn't see the Rebbe too much.

01:51 Speaker 2 So now we get-

01:52 Speaker 1 The morning the Rebbe came out for Mincha.

01:53 Speaker 2 Yeah. So now we get to the highlight of Tishrei-

01:55 Speaker 1 Yeah

01:56 Speaker 2 ... at least in my view.

01:57 Speaker 1 But I want to go over, uh, whatever the first time I came to the Rebbe was day after Yom Kippur.

02:04 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

02:06 Speaker 1 Lamed-vav, it seems like the Rebbe started a new minhag that day after Yom Tov, the Rebbe started to go to the Ohel. So the day after-

02:16 Speaker 2 The day after every Yom Tov?

02:17 Speaker 1 Every Yom Tov. Besides Rosh Hashanah 'cause it's in the day, the Rebbe didn't go on a fast day. But, um, day after Yom Kippur, the Rebbe went to the Ohel, Lamed-vav. So I remember when I came to 770, so they said, um, actually somebody picked us up from the airport and said, um, the Rebbe already done for the-- uh, was in the Ohel, already went home, so I'm not gonna see the Rebbe that night. So the first time I saw the Rebbe was in Beis Tishrei. But, uh, and the Rebbe went Esro Chag Simchas Torah also, and from then on, I think all the years from Lamed-vav, day after Yom Tov, the Rebbe would go to the Ohel. So, um, um, let's just describe the fi-- I mean, I described it in the, the forum of for the Der Her.

03:07 Speaker 2 The original Der Her, Rebbe, Rebbe mit a Rebbe.

03:08 Speaker 1 Yeah. The Rebbe, or the My First Twenty-Four Hours by the Rebbe was like, whatever, it's interesting. I think, I think it's archived yet online, I think. Anyways, seeing the Rebbe the first time, my father admitted to me when the Rebbe came into Mincha, he was looking at me, not, not at the Rebbe. He wanted to see my reaction. But, uh, funny thing is, I'd never seen a video than a film of the Rebbe before I came to the Rebbe first. So I'd never seen the Rebbe walking or anything. I saw pictures, but I'd never seen a, a video. So I see the Rebbe walking in downstairs. It's Tishrei, so all the tefillins will be downstairs. So that's Krias HaTorah. From Tashri Lamed Zayin, Krias HaTorah also started to be downstairs during Tishrei. You know, the big Ohel. It wasn't hard to ask the Rebbe to come downstairs, that I noticed through the years. 'Cause I remember one time a bus of tourists came. Half the bus was boys, half the bu-bus was girls. I don't think they were frum. But they asked the Rebbe, those girls in the, in the bus, so the Rebbe come downstairs Mincha, even though it's quite empty. But it wasn't hard to ask the Rebbe to come downstairs. If there was an excuse, the Rebbe would come downstairs. Even the, you know, Hayteves did not something, the Rebbe would come downstairs-

04:34 Speaker 2 Downstairs

04:34 Speaker 1 ... 'cause a big Ohel. Anyway, um, so the Rebbe down-- The Rebbe came into Mincha. I remember seeing the Rebbe the first time. I would say he looked different than I ever saw the Rebbe before that or after that. I mean, before I didn't see the Rebbe, after. The Rebbe's face seemed, like, glowing. It was like, I don't know, it's different look. And the Rebbe goes to his place, um, puts on the gartel during Ashrei. Not sure when that stopped. I think after Minchas.

05:04 Speaker 2 Yeah, discussed this on a different, uh, podcast with someone. I don't think we came up with an explanation, but the Rebbe had this minhag-

05:11 Speaker 1 Yeah

05:11 Speaker 2 ... to Dav to put on the gartel and shawl-

05:13 Speaker 1 Put on the gartel during Ashrei

05:13 Speaker 2 ... by Mincha, and so that later the Rebbe stopped that.

05:16 Speaker 1 And to Maariv, the Rebbe would come in with a gartel on.

05:18 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

05:18 Speaker 1 But only by Mincha. And, um, oh yeah, I'm gonna cut out a few details. Have to go through every single detail. But just seeing, seeing the Rebbe right after Mincha, the Rebbe turns round, and the Rebbe goes over to Aron Kodesh, touches the Parachas. And Le- uh, Fryden, Levi Fryden, the photographer, was there. That was his first year at Tashri Lamed-vav. First year as official, uh, photographer.

05:50 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

05:51 Speaker 1 So the, as the Rebbe saw him standing there next to Aron Kodesh, the Rebbe gave him a beautiful smile. And I see, and I have to learn the minhag. So I see the Rebbe smiles, everybody smiles. Anyway, the Rebbe walked, and the Rebbe's going. And somewhere near the bimah- In the middle of the shul, the Rebbe suddenly stops. Rebbe stopped, everybody ran over there. By the time I got over there, the Rebbe was already out of the shul. But the Rebbe asked then, uh, bachur who's taking pictures, "Hazaga learn Tanya, hein? How much Tanya do you know, baal peh?" And we went on-- went over there, and I heard him tell, "The Rebbe asked me if, uh, how much Tanya I know, baal peh."

06:29 Speaker 3 This is an English guy when he like went-

06:30 Speaker 1 No, no, no.

06:31 Speaker 3 Another bachur.

06:32 Speaker 1 No, American bachur. Eight years later, the Rebbe spoke about it. Chaf Cheshvan, five thousand and seven hundred. It's a Mincha time. So I asked him, I asked him if he learned Tanya. So what's a Tanya? Photography is a dobro choshev. Learning Tanya can be dayim, can be layim, can be-

06:47 Speaker 3 There's a, a knacket photographias. Uh, is it same sefer?

06:52 Speaker 1 Maybe. I don't know that one.

06:53 Speaker 3 In Russian, a knacket photographias.

06:56 Speaker 1 No, but this, uh, this Rebbe, Rebbe was like, "Mincha it's time."

07:00 Speaker 3 The Rebbe did this a few times.

07:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, but this was like mamash a sicha about it.

07:04 Speaker 3 And he was referring to that time.

07:05 Speaker 1 Yeah.

07:05 Speaker 3 Okay.

07:06 Speaker 1 Eight years later, the Rebbe speaks about it.

07:09 Speaker 3 There's a video by Shacharis, Rebbe walks in-

07:11 Speaker 1 Yeah

07:11 Speaker 3 ... straight over to someone and thank them, learn Tanya.

07:14 Speaker 1 Uh, Birchas Kohanim.

07:15 Speaker 3 Yeah, that morning. Yeah.

07:16 Speaker 1 Yeah, the morning Birchas Kohanim. What's interesting, the Rebbe asked the person who's holding the pho- the camera, not the one who's holding the video.

07:25 Speaker 3 Hmm. Interesting.

07:26 Speaker 1 Personally, I feel that video, you have more to learn. One of the things the Rebbe says, "You took a picture yesterday, you took a picture the day before. Why are you taking a picture again? What are you gonna get from it?" There's no minhagas which people, um, they write down they saw such minhaga, a different minhaga. But what do you get from just taking a picture again and again? That's what the Rebbe was-- So, I don't know, my own boychara, when it comes to videos, the Rebbe was not so against it, because a video does have a-

07:54 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm

07:54 Speaker 1 ... you know, the-- there's something more you could learn from it.

07:57 Speaker 3 And may I'm thinking about and theorizing about this more. There was opposition from the Rebbe for pictures, and the Rebbe, the Rebbe was told that's a sh- it's ruining the schatt Parnassah, the Rebbe let. But video, I mean-

08:09 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe mentions in that sicha about Parnassah.

08:12 Speaker 3 Right. But then the video later when, uh, when, uh, Hildav Krinsky went to start the videos, I mean, the Rebbe and Yudl was doing the videos in the Lamb, I think the Rebbe liked it.

08:21 Speaker 1 Even though in that sicha also, the Rebbe says, "Not a satellite."

08:25 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

08:25 Speaker 1 Uh, didn't say-- The Rebbe didn't say it in a positive way, but-

08:29 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm

08:30 Speaker 1 I remember when I was, uh, Hildav Krinsky, I think it was, you know, the one who started Jem. And he was like, uh, or maybe it was Friedman. Uh, one of them, anyway, one of the family, was saying, uh, the first time the Rebbe mentions a satellite and it wasn't positive.

08:46 Speaker 3 Publicly, yeah.

08:47 Speaker 1 Yeah. So like... Anyway, so I was just saying that this is what happened that first Mincha, I mean, I was there. That night there was Ichud between Yud Beis and Yud Gimel. It's the last time it was Ichud at, uh, between Sukkot. So my father asks Rebbe, "I'm a client, could you go into Ichud?" So Rebbe says, "You just came, you already wanted to go to Ichud?" But later, later years, I found out there was a minhaga.

09:12 Speaker 3 Before and afterwards.

09:13 Speaker 1 No, no, no. It was a minhaga. Be-- First you hear Torah, and then you go into Ichud.

09:17 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

09:19 Speaker 1 Even the first, the bachurim who came before Yud Chet, uh, Tashri Yud, and, uh, they wanted to go into Ichud as soon as they arrived, and the Friediker Rebbe said, "After Shabbos." And they were wondering, and, uh, Rabbi Simpson then, uh, he explained, he says, "Shabbos, the Rebbe is Now we don't hear, we don't hear the . The Inyan Shabbos first comes to this, and then Ichud." So maybe that was the Inyan. Well, probably I didn't have Ichud that year because, uh, our ticket was the day after Isser Chag, and there was no way we could change it. So, um, we're talking Himher and, uh, and, um, my father's asking Chad Kadav. There was, there was nothing to do. I mean Halachad already we-- The Rebbe was already midia, he's going to the Israel Isser Chag. So I didn't have Ichud, the point because of that, my father sent me the next year for Tishrei, so I was Zoche L'Chabad Tishrei.

10:11 Speaker 3 Because you didn't have Ichud.

10:12 Speaker 1 Because I didn't have Ichud then, so-

10:14 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm

10:14 Speaker 1 ... I came the next year, so I had Ichud Lamed Zayin.

10:18 Speaker 3 Just by yourself?

10:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, yeah, I went to Rebbe's room by myself, yeah. I was twice in Ichud. Lamed Zayin and Tashri Nun. Very short, but it was Ichud. Um, where we up to? So, um, Yud Beis Tishrei, Yud Gimel Tishrei. Actually, so that night was Ichud. So I remember the bachurim discussing, uh, if the Rebbe, um, usually after Ichud, the Rebbe would come at one o'clock in those years. But because the Rebbe has to go to the Israel 'cause it's Yud Gimel Tishrei, so Mastama the Rebbe will come at twelve o'clock, and they were right. Okay, I already told you before about the, the Gleiml, so I'm not gonna-

10:57 Speaker 3 Gleiml?

10:57 Speaker 1 But me mentioning Gleiml earlier-

10:58 Speaker 3 Ah, yeah

10:59 Speaker 1 ... I'm not gonna repeat it again. Anyway, that night was Fabregin. The Rebbe came back from the, the Rebbe came back from the Is- from the Israel. So the Rebbe had Mincha downstairs. Till ta-- the end of Tashri Men Dalet, there would always be a break between Mincha and Maariv, even though Mincha was late, it was after Nacht. But, uh, nevertheless, there was always a break between Mincha and Maariv. After Men Dalet, Elul Men Dalet, that changed. The Rebbe started having Mincha and Maariv together. And even Shabbos by Fabregin, if it was late, also Mincha and Maariv together. That's a new minhag that started Elul Men Dalet. Uh, so after Mincha, the Rebbe went upstairs to his room, and the Rebbe was midia that, uh, Maariv will be, I think it was at nine fifteen, whatever, and then a Kretz Fabregin. Usually, a Kretz Fabregin meant two hours, barech. Two, two and a half. Excuse me. Um, anyway, so Rebbe comes in Fabregin and, uh, I told this already before about the LeChayim, when I said LeChayim first time. Anyway, it was Maamer The Rebbe said then he wants all Archim to go to, um, especially Archim, to show that Yidden are all of us in the world. So Archim should go and be Mesameach Yidden on Chol Hamoed Sukkot. So to show that Yid, wherever he is, he's comfortable, he's one of us. So Archim especially should go to all the different places. It's a big shturem then going to Chol Hamoed.

12:33 Speaker 3 Simchat Torah Sheiva, another, another place.

12:35 Speaker 1 Simchat Torah Sheiva, be mesameach. The Rebbe stood up by, um, the Rebbe gave, then the Rebbe gave out dollars. It's the first time we're getting dollars from the Rebbe. I mean, it was tankist. So I went over. By the time I went over, in the early years of dollars by farbrengen, it would still be in the middle of farbrengen, and the tankist wouldn't go around and give dollars. It was hard to climb over the people, and especially I wasn't used to it. When I came to the Rebbe, the Rebbe gave me a pack of dollars, but as soon as I went off, somebody says to me, "Everybody has dollars already. Take for yourself and, uh, give me the rest. I'll give back to the moskir," he said, because especially there were loads of tankistim.

13:19 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

13:21 Speaker 1 Then I tried to squeeze back inside, and it was, uh, interesting, um, it was a freilecher farbrengen. And the Rebbe said to a few niggunim to whistle. Remember, Yosef Yitzchak farren alav hashalom was next to me, and he's whistling. I think the Rebbe said two niggunim one after another to whistle. By the third niggun, he's still whistling. He has his eyes closed, and he's whistling with all his koach. And the Rebbe looked at him and smiled. He was like in a different world. Anyway, at the end, the Rebbe said, um, like you're gonna sing Kivah Simcha, you know, going out of galus. The Rebbe started the Kivah Simcha, and the Rebbe stood up and made freilechers. All right. Uh, it wasn't very unusual in those years, but it was still an interesting, uh, thing. That's really the night before Sukkot. And Sukkot used to be a peaceful yontif once upon a time. Before Simchat Torah Sheiva, it was a fierigher, uh, Sukkot. The only real freilecher night was the second night Sukkot. Besides that, it was, um-

14:26 Speaker 3 Why the second night?

14:27 Speaker 1 Second night is always farbrengen Simchat Torah Sheiva. It was a long thing. Officially, the second night of Sukkot is Simchat Torah Sheiva because in the Beis Hamikdash-

14:36 Speaker 3 You always had niggunim

14:37 Speaker 1 ... so the second night was always farbrengen, loads of farbrengens. Reb Mendel Fuchsfass used to farbrengen. The-- That was a big, always a big farbrengen. The house where, where I was staying, Reb Mendel Fuchsfass was the uncle, so he used to come to that sukkah always to farbrengen. And, um, anyway, so, um, I remember just, uh, the second night, every time-- most times when the Rebbe came in that sukkah, they were singing, "Ah, ai yai yai." And the Rebbe came in, there was Moed on the way to his place in the Starameyer or whichever tefillah it was. Second night Sukkot, they were singing Al Tzelach. The Rebbe comes to his place. He puts down the siddur, turns around, and Rebbe started clapping. Turned around to the ohel and was like, "Wow." It's like a really exciting... It's very unusual at a regular tefillah, Rebbe should Moed like that. Well, later Lamed Heh, the Rebbe did that every tefillah. That was, uh, they say a siman because of what happened afterwards on Simchat Torah the Rebbe wasn't with the ohel. That was unusual. But even Mem Alef also the Rebbe did that. And, um, I'm trying to remind myself now, but, uh, Chol Hamoed Sukkot, Tasha Mem Alef, and there's Moed every tefillah, especially before Maariv. So one of the times they're singing Al Tzelach, and the Rebbe comes in, it's namus, a miracle. If you look at the video, it's on, um, the Tishrei video which Jem came out-- gave out. The black and white

16:06 Speaker 1 one. There's a Fariden video, but it's not that good. The black and white one partially focuses on the Rebbe. You see the Rebbe seriously happy. It's like-

16:15 Speaker 3 Yeah

16:15 Speaker 1 ... hard to explain. He was seriously simcha.

16:18 Speaker 3 All that's the Rebbe's simcha, it's usually like that.

16:21 Speaker 1 But it's, uh, that particular thing, I mean, that looks like what the Rebbe looked like on Simchat Torah. That, uh, the Rebbe's shoulder slightly as he's clapping and... And as the Rebbe turns around, niggun's over, and Hakafos used to be the same way. As soon as the Rebbe turns around, the niggun's over, Hakafos over.

16:40 Speaker 3 Generally, Al Tzelach is the-

16:42 Speaker 1 Yeah, the-

16:43 Speaker 3 Top niggun.

16:44 Speaker 1 Yeah. They say one of the-

16:46 Speaker 3 Not Shavai.

16:47 Speaker 1 They say one of the years Tasha Lamed Gimel maybe early Lameds. So the Rebbe Mincha was upstairs, Yom Simchat Torah. The Rebbe came in for Mincha, and they were singing Al Tzelach. The Rebbe got up on his chair and partially Moed it for ten, 15 minutes. They say whoever was there will not forget it. People saying, "Ah, I missed it. I was there," and that, but everybody remembers that.

17:08 Speaker 3 I think it has something to do with the, the, the, with the niggun. I don't know what I'm saying.

17:14 Speaker 1 I mean, you could say a bunch of niggunim that the Rebbe really liked, but the Rebbe liked Al Tzelach.

17:17 Speaker 3 Also like the, it also works very well-

17:19 Speaker 1 Yeah

17:19 Speaker 3 ... partially musically. I don't know, like, I don't know. I don't know.

17:22 Speaker 1 That's a very Yishmael thing.

17:23 Speaker 3 I thought about it over the years, like, what's, what's this niggun?

17:26 Speaker 1 I wouldn't know why, but anyway, that's... But, but there's a bunch of niggun the Rebbe really liked, so. Also Al Tzelach is one of the ni- niggunim that, um, Menachem Lubavitch would sing it by Hakafos. One of the niggunim. The Kavodig niggunim.

17:39 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

17:40 Speaker 1 Al Tzelach, um, uh, Charkaner Sheyn. Where's the others? Not too many more. I mean, the Hakafos niggun, but that was changed. Sometimes the Rebbe changed it, especially when he danced by himself in the later years. Um, but generally, I'd say Sukkot is a peaceful yontif. I'm not gonna go into the farbrengens the second night and so on. Lamed Vav was a strange thing. It partially from the second night of Sukkot, it poured until Shemini Atzeres. partially almost did not stop raining. I don't remember a single meal that we were able to eat. It was like run in with your coat and eat fast and go out. It was pouring the whole time. It's a settle from the Rebbe, but it's printed in the Chassidus. That, uh, somebody asked the Rebbe, "How can you have the ninah of simcha if you, if you, um, with such a matzah of raining?" And it says in the Mishnah, "Ki ili shafach raba ye'kitem befanav." So how could you have a simcha? So the Rebbe said, "Since you already made the bracha Leishah basukkah," which was the Rebbe's chidush also, to say Leishah basukkah even though it's raining. Say Shabbos Chalmaid, Sukkas Tashim Chavzayim, it was pouring. The Rebbe came in and the Rebbe Dafka said Leishah basukkah loud. So Elom should hear you say Leishah basukkah even though it's raining.

18:59 Speaker 2 So you think the Rebbe also said to fabling inside, right?

19:01 Speaker 1 So there in the settle the Rebbe says, "Since you already said Leishah basukkah that day," so it can't be that the Mishnah doesn't accept your sitting in the Sukkah. And so Simah that Hesra should be Babais and Eifern of Manucha or the Rebbe Zakloshen. So it's Mechir, it's, it's a hard-- we're in the Bachman discussing that it's hard to understand this because we do continue to fabling the Sukkah also. Whatever, it's-

19:25 Speaker 2 I think that year they did. They did, they didn't eat, but they-

19:28 Speaker 1 Yeah, whatever

19:28 Speaker 2 ... but they fabling inside.

19:31 Speaker 1 Actually, Hoshana Rabba night-

19:33 Speaker 2 I think someone described it, a Mendel fabling in the nazal and he was-

19:36 Speaker 1 Yeah, I heard about that

19:36 Speaker 2 ... sticking his head out the, I don't know.

19:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, I heard about that. The Hoshana Rabba night, so after Tillem, so the Draskin announces, uh, because the Rebbe said to him, "Sameach, whole yin all over," somebody suggests, "What about here?" So she means fabling here also. I wasn't there, I know my friend. I was a young boy. My, my father took me home to sleep after Tillem. But the guys went into the Sukkah, fabling, it's pouring. And they say before the Rebbe went home, they would go home-- Hoshana Rabba, they would go home by Alos Hashachar. So the Rebbe looked inside the Sukkah and saw them fabling, and the Rebbe said, "Lafum tzayra agra."

20:13 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

20:16 Speaker 1 Anyway, so it was raining so much that Hoshana Rabba, the Rebbe gave out lakach next to his room-

20:23 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

20:23 Speaker 1 ... and not in the Sukkah. So I got lakach next to Rebbe's room. So it's the only year that happened. It was pushing, pouring.

20:30 Speaker 2 Well, later years it happened.

20:33 Speaker 1 On Hoshana Rabba?

20:34 Speaker 2 I think in the base, wasn't that in the other room?

20:37 Speaker 1 I don't think so. I mean, I don't know. I have to check, I don't know.

20:40 Speaker 2 Okay.

20:41 Speaker 1 But usually, usually the Rebbe gave up in the Sukkah.

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22:19 Speaker 1 Okay.

22:19 Speaker 2 So Simchas Teirah, you're by the Rebbe-

22:21 Speaker 1 Yeah

22:21 Speaker 2 ... from Lamed Vav to-

22:23 Speaker 1 I just want to mention one more thing. I thought it was interesting. Um, uh, second day Sukkos, so the first day you use Lulav and Esrog. And, um, the Rebbe would always stand and wait until Elam does their Hakafah, and then they would start continuing for that one. So the Rebbe would first go, make the Hakafah, and every behind the Rebbe, the Rebbe would stand and wait every single day. He would always look, the Elam, it was all the years. So Rebbe standing, he's waiting. The chazan, well, he didn't know or whatever the reason was, he screams, "Lamandas," meaning is that you put back the Sefer Torah, and as you put him back Sefer Torah, the chazan screams, "Lamandas," and everybody else repeats the pasuk. And here he screams, "Lamandas," and the Rebbe, and there was this big Esrog in his hand, the Rebbe turns to him like, "What are you doing?" So that was, uh, when the Elam finished going around the bimah, so the Rebbe himself as he turns around, the Rebbe started himself, "She-a," like, uh, unusual. Anyway, uh, you say, "Okay, let's get out Simchas Torah." As I said, Sukkos was, um, uh, peacefully until then, till Lulav and Esrog. And Simchas Torah, I remember, um, uh, Rebbe, um, Adel Jacobs called me up the first time. He said, "Describe," it was the end of the Nuns, maybe not so much the end, Nun Zayin, Nun Ches, somewhere. "Describe Tishri for me." I said, "No problem, I'll describe Tishri." And speaking

24:04 Speaker 1 about Tishri, or Shonei and Kipper or Sukkos, it comes to Simchas Torah, this is no word about Simchas Torah. He's interviewing me on the phone. I said, "I can't describe Simchas Torah." He left me alone. The next year, he calls me again. He says, "You have to help me. Nobody wants to talk about Simchas Torah. Everybody ask, they all say you can't describe Simchas Torah." I said, "You know, I'll try as much as I can, but i-i-it's indescribable." So I, I usually give the three Hakdamas. And I say very quickly, in Kutner Buriym it brings down Rebbe Elchon Sus explaining the Yechidas Hakafas with the Alter Rebbe. He said the first time he was with Yechidas Hakafas with the Alter Rebbe, the Alter Rebbe used to do Hakafas first by himself with the since the family and Yechidas Kula, and then he would come out to the whole Elam. So the Yechidas Hakafas, the Alter Rebbe himself said the whole Alter Rebbe, he was chazan, like, for the whole Alter Rebbe, and he was chazan for every Hakafa. Rebbe Elchon Sus writes, "The first time I was zocheh to be by the Yechidas Hakafas, I started to have a little understanding what a Yid must have felt, felt like when he wentto the Beis Hamikdash, lerai sulahirais. It's the first time I had such a understanding. That's, uh, one, one inyan. Another inyan, I'll tell you like this. There's a-- I would say Reb Pinchas Koritzer had a... Reb, uh, Chassid of Reb Pinchas

25:32 Speaker 1 Koritzer had a dream. A Chassid who had already passed away, he came to him in a dream. So the Chassid who's in this world says, uh, "How is it up there?" He says, "Very good. There was a kumt nisht to a Shabbos by Reb Pinchas Koritzer." So this Chassid wakes up, he's wondering, "Well, what do you mean it's kumt nisht? A Shabbos in Olam Haze? It's in Gan Eden." Then th-he thought to himself like this. It says a Shabbos is me'ein Olam Haba. So for every person, Shabbos is me'ein of his Olam Haba. When you come to Reb Pinchas Koritzer, he invites you to his Shabbos. His me'ein Olam Haba is more than your whole Olam Haba.

26:08 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

26:10 Speaker 1 I was thinking the same thing. The Rebbe invited us into his Simchas Torah. And that's probably, maybe, whatever, the reason why you can't describe it. You push it, you felt like you're in a different Olam. There are certain times that people tell you that in Yechidus or even the moment you're getting a dollar from the Rebbe, you, you're suddenly in a different dimension. Time has a different meaning over there. Everything has a different meaning. So Hakafos by the Rebbe has this... Y-y-- The Rebbe partially invited us into hil- his, uh, his Olam. Now, they printed in, uh, Teshuvah Umates, I think it was, a book called HaRebbi. Um, Tzach Netzi-- Um, whatever, not Tzach, uh, Kehas in Eretz Israel. Articles, just articles, uh, from people about the Rebbe. I don't have the book, but I saw in that article somebody writes like this, an Israeli, um, etanahi, uh, you know.

27:04 Speaker 4 Reporter.

27:04 Speaker 1 Reporter. So he writes like this: "For years I've been hearing that you can't describe Ha- Simchas Torah by the Rebbe. Now, I'm a reporter. My job is to describe things. Until one year, I decided I have to go there just to describe Simchas Torah by the Rebbe. But what should I tell you?" he says. He's writing this in, uh, this article. He said, "What should I tell you? It's the first time I see something you cannot describe. What should I tell you? The, the describe the bleachers of the bachurim up to the ceiling jumping up and down. Should I describe to you the t'nuos, the miratses of the Rebbe, the way he's mo'ed the negin. Nothing-- None of this will give you the, the atmosphere, the, the, the avir which there is where the Rebbe's Hakafos." It's, it's pashut. You can't... Pashut, he says, "First time in my life I see something you cannot describe." And I'll tell you something else when I was on shlichus in Bogotá. Shluchim used to come. So a little shar shiva. He's, uh... He tells me for whatever reason it was, one year he was here Simchas Torah. Says, "By the Rebbe." He said when he saw Simchas Torah by the Rebbe, a little shar, he says, "Ani asur li. How could I prevent my son from experiencing the same, the same experiences?" He says he's traveled specially to the Rebbe another time. I figured that was Tisha B'Av, whatever. I traveled to the Rebbe specially just to give

28:28 Speaker 1 my son the opportunity to be by the Rebbe's Hakafos. So, uh, I don't know, it's like eylkayt, whatever, but, uh, understanding-

28:36 Speaker 4 The heyd.

28:37 Speaker 1 The feeling. It was amazing just to hear that from him. And after saying that, you can start explaining, but you can describe whatever you can describe, but you cannot, you can't describe Simchas Torah by the Rebbe. I'd say most years, you know, before the Rebbe comes in, the night of Simchas Torah, I mean, it's all the same she- Shemini Atzeres, Simchas Torah, they go into different differences. Shemini Atzeres day, basically, um, Maariv would be at seven, seven thirty. And Hakafos will start nine thirty. Shemini Atzeres after Lamavches started at nine. Same thing with the Farbrengen, lil Simchas Torah. They try to make things a little easier to make the half hour earlier. But in general, I'm describing the Rebbe coming into Hakafos, which was more than... So a lot of the years that I remember, Baruch Hashem, I was ten Simchas Torahs. In the later years, so they generally would sing, um, So there would be a circle, people dancing. Once it got fuller, there was no room to dance, so people, you know, singing on the place. And the Rebbe comes in, and they make a shrill for the Rebbe come through. And the Rebbe's mo'ed it, and it comes in the siddur. Everybody I've spoken to says the same thing. You know, usually, the Rebbe comes in with a siddur, and he puts down the siddur on the shtender. The Rebbe remembers the Hakafos, the Rebbe puts down his siddur with both hands ta-taa to new him. And then the Rebbe turns around,

30:02 Speaker 1 "Hey, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." And suddenly the whole simcha assembly is like one shtik. It's not separate people anymore. Everybody controlled by the Rebbe's hands, by the Rebbe's movements, and everyone's together. It was an amazing feeling, just all together. And then the Rebbe starts At Chodesh. I mean, uh, the Rebbe scream At Chodesh. The recording there is from Meshiach Sefer Torah from the... Is nothing compared to that.

30:32 Speaker 4 Well, now we have another recording.

30:33 Speaker 1 Yeah, it's... I don't know if it's, uh... I'm sure it's not Laratan's. I don't know should we mention the public or not, but the, the, the, the way the Rebbe sang, the, the, the... You could hear the Rebbe over most of the shul. The Rebbe screamed so loud. I remember people even saying Lamavches, I wasn't here, but the people saying the way the Rebbe in the beginning was screamed At Chodesh also, all is kayach, all obsakim. At Chodesh is loud. It comes to the Kim Hi En, it's like way louder And then after each At Chayei Sarah, the nigun, Simchas Torah night and Simchas Torah day is also Ofrat, the Rebbe would say the pasuk, Ofrat three times. That's a letter from Rashag to the Rebbe, asking the Rebbe to continue saying the Ofrat.

31:25 Speaker 4 Oh, so that the letter is to continue it?

31:26 Speaker 1 Yeah. That's if I remember correctly.

31:29 Speaker 4 I thought, I thought I remember that it was like, uh, so, okay. Interesting, okay.

31:32 Speaker 1 Well, I thought, I thought he was asking the Rebbe to continue.

31:34 Speaker 4 Okay.

31:37 Speaker 1 They say the people have been saying that the Rebbe used to add a pasuk in Hinami Veyos on Eretz Zafarim.

31:43 Speaker 4 Sometimes yes, sometimes no, yeah.

31:44 Speaker 1 It's, uh, um, uh, on Hakal.

31:46 Speaker 4 Yeah.

31:46 Speaker 1 But then they figured out it was only one time that the Rebbe added on Hakal.

31:50 Speaker 4 Right.

31:50 Speaker 1 So maybe the other time it was because of the Rosh Hashana, but it was interesting, um, because I remember last they printed, um, they printed Hakafos, you know, to give out. Everybody should have copies.

32:03 Speaker 4 They put that in?

32:04 Speaker 1 They put it in.

32:05 Speaker 4 But the Rebbe didn't say it.

32:05 Speaker 1 The Rebbe didn't say it. I remember Farisher Rebbe did not say it. Anyway, then, um, Chabad Rebbe to go to Hakafa, the first Hakafa. And the Rebbe would go to Sefirer, go to the middle. Whoever was close by would wish the Rebbe, "Lebbe mador," Rebbe would say, "Gam atem." That's the main reason people would say that, so the Rebbe should say, "Gam atem." One time by day, day it was-

32:30 Speaker 4 And it can't be for the Rebbe, it has to be for yourself.

32:34 Speaker 1 We're all, uh, we wanna cash in as many berachos as we can.

32:37 Speaker 4 Yeah.

32:39 Speaker 1 So one year, I actually kissed the Sefirer while the Rebbe was holding it, by day. By day it was less people. Simchas Torah day was less people than by night. The night was like... I remember the first time I was there, they were trying to catch a place, and I, I got the most dangerous place in, uh, Lamed Heh. It was between the Russians and the Frenchies.

33:01 Speaker 4 Danger zone.

33:02 Speaker 1 Yeah, it was like... Baruch Hashem, I was a little closer to the Russians. In the middle of Shemini Atzeres night, Shabbos also. In the middle of the, well, one of the Hakafos. Is it Chabad? The Alef Frenchies in the Hakafa. I blinked, I'm telling you. One second they were there, 200, 300 guys just . One second they're there, next second they're not there. And they all jumped down together. They landed on top of one bachur. Had to give him oxygen. Before Lamed Ches, there used to be near the Ches in the middle, where the Rebbe would dance, two huge bottles of oxygen, the green, you know, whatever you call them.

33:37 Speaker 4 Like for Atzal?

33:37 Speaker 1 The metal, yeah. Label Rasritzky standing next to them. They was like... And they had to give him oxygen, this bachur, it was like... And I see one bachur standing there. The, the benches were empty, you know, suddenly they all cleared, cleared out, went to the Hakafa. And you see one bachur, minus his hat, minus his jacket, minus one shoe. He bends down, picks up two tzitzits, rolls them up, puts in his pocket. They were wild, those guys. Anyway, the Russians had from one of the beams on the window of the vibeshul, the Kingston side. So you had a rope. So the last guy, because it's a drop, so you had a rope there to hold onto. Uh-

34:21 Speaker 4 The Simchas Torah equipment.

34:24 Speaker 1 Everybody had their own. And those years, I don't know why, till Lamed Ches, they would block the Kingston vibeshul. So if there was any ladies in there, they couldn't see a thing. But I was on top. Baruch Hashem, I had my sweater on because I-- the air conditioner was blowing right onto me. So I turned it, you know, the flaps, it should blow somewhere else. So I said, "What are you doing? Everybody there, don't close it there."

34:50 Speaker 4 Yeah.

34:50 Speaker 1 I said, "I, I'm not closing it, I'm just turning it." So I should be, like, freezing. But it was good, I mean. So Shemini Atzeres night, Lamed Heh, the Rebbe comes in. It was quiet. And the Rebbe turns around to the "Yai da, da, dai, yai, yai," and then the whole... Remember the roar of the crowd, like, Simchas Torah began. Um, what should I say? Uh, Lamed Heh before the farbrengen, before Hakafos. I don't know, I was sat there for the first time with my father. Whenever I sat down with my father on the first table in Namish opposite the Rebbe. The Rebbe came-- We didn't go to tell the Chayei. I didn't even-- I don't know if I knew about it or not. It doesn't make a difference. I was there. It's the only time I saw the Rebbe make Kiddush by night. The Rebbe came in, he made Kiddush. So I suddenly realized, I see the Rebbe, like, sitting or holding the chais. And suddenly I see the Rebbe going lower. So I guess the Rebbe was, like, sort of on his knees. He wasn't sitting.

35:55 Speaker 4 He bent down.

35:55 Speaker 1 But he didn't wanna stand.

35:56 Speaker 4 Ah, for the whole thing, yeah.

35:57 Speaker 1 No, the whole Kiddush.

35:58 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

35:59 Speaker 1 He didn't wanna make the whole elok stand probably.

36:01 Speaker 4 But you thought the Rebbe was sitting and-

36:02 Speaker 1 I thought he was sitting. Suddenly I see the Rebbe going lower.

36:04 Speaker 4 Yeah.

36:05 Speaker 1 Uh, he made Kiddush. Very frail farbrengen. And the Rebbe explained At Chayei Sarah. Usually, the Rebbe explains pesukim At Chayei Sarah. And, um, in middle of farbrengen, the Rebbe says to... He-- On a whole yiddels farbrengen, I mean. Uh, in the middle of farbrengen, the Rebbe says, uh, should sing a nigun of Tzvva Medinah with words from Tzvva Medinah. So they started singing from seven, seventy, you know, marching out. The Rebbe didn't move, as if they're not singing. So they realize the Rebbe doesn't want that nigun. So they're quiet. Of course, I guess the Rebbe discussing what nigun to sing. So the Rebbe looks to Berel Zaltzman. "Zaltzman, sing a song Russian." So he sung a song. I don't know the, the words for sure, I don't know. He sang in Russian. And the Rebbe was awake a little bit. And after he finished singing in Russian, they had to sing something in English. So the Rebbe's new was saying the madrigim from the Machnis. Finally he starts singing, "Just one tiger, just one shark. It's just one animal, can't be seen." I knew the words from a different song from England. I didn't know the tune. It's an American tune, Yankee Doodle. Ah, okay. I, I didn't know the song, and so, uh, I'm trying to catch the tune as opposite me is old, old sitting on the other side of the table. "No, no, zing, zing." I was saying the word. I don't know the-- I knew the words, I didn't know the

37:36 Speaker 1 nigun. The Rebbe was clapping. It was wow. Mom was clapping. And then, um, Rebbe said they should sing a song in French. A French song with French words. Was the the Rebbe always used to show him to whistle. So he had to hand the Roshon there. He had a huge hat then. He was like sort of a leader of a group of, uh, Frenchies next to him. So on the Rebbe's right, Rebbe looked at him. They sung the national anthem with an extra piece which I hadn't heard before. It wasn't in the, uh, the . Right. They added it later. So they sang the, they sang the anthem- Sung the whole anthem- With, with French- ... with the French words. With the French words. And the Rebbe was looking, and the Rebbe was like that, you know, it was like Then the Rebbe says sing a nigun of The Rebbe was the nigun, but not as much as, uh, the first nigun. Not as much as- Not as much as the- ... the English one. The English one. Yeah, not as much as the English one. Well, the Rebbe was . The Rebbe says of was his So I figured the Rebbe meant before he said Mm-hmm. So the mother of all languages, so he sung to his head. And it came the end of so you have to announce that everybody should leave the, should leave the shul to be able to- Set up for- Set up for Hakafos. At that time there was

39:10 Speaker 1 no kiddush yet. I think that started in something like that. In maybe. The kiddush after- Kiddush between the and- Oh, okay ... and Hakafos. Nachman Markowitz still does it till today, you know. Oh, on the outside. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So, um, anyway, the, the, uh, so he got up, the Alter Rebbe of Shkhevski to announce. I guess it's a, a tradition in Lubavitch before you make an announcement, I don't know exactly what happened at that moment. I didn't notice, but I see Little Groner telling him to get up onto the table, like he's okay. He got up on the table. He starts again. The Rebbe says, "Zog tzemech l'chaim." Rebbe said, "L'chaim." He starts again. The Rebbe says, "Zog dreimal azoy vi Kol Nidre." Dreimal? Say three times Oh, okay. Just like Kol Nidre. He was the chazan for Kol Nidre always. So he says, "" The Rebbe says, "Zog dreimal, yede mal ufhebn di kol" Say three ti- each time he says, "Raise your voice." This is like really chazanis. "" And the Rebbe is smiling the whole time. So while all this is going on, there was p- beautiful smile. Then he announced everybody should go out And then the Rebbe said That's the only time I heard the Rebbe sing this nigun. It's Yontif, there's no recording. But The Rebbe left. It's the only time I ever heard the Rebbe sing this nigun. Without words, it was just- You heard the Rebbe sing it? I heard the Rebbe sing it without,

40:50 Speaker 1 without words. They sing it front of the, front of the Rebbe. Yeah, most times. Yeah. Here and there I heard the Rebbe sing it himself. And, uh, after that the Rebbe came to Hakafos. So Hakafos, well, it's I'll get into some of them, but one of the, uh, um, uh... Okay, at the end of Hakafos, So the Rebbe, instead of the Rebbe going out the way the Rebbe came in from the side of the tables, they went in the middle of the tables towards the chess where he danced. So he comes to the end, there's a table in the way, which seemingly the Rebbe would do that every year until Lamed Heh. So I, I, I don't know. I was dreaming for a second, and one of my friends says, "Look, look, look." And I see the Rebbe was like climbing up onto the table. Seemingly, the Rebbe pulled a box from under the table, stood on the box, stood on the table. So suddenly tables are quite high, but stepped up onto the table, and as the Re- the Rebbe jumped down, and as he jumped down, it went like this. And, um, and so they... I don't remember what nigun it was, but the Rebbe was like- It was blocking the Rebbe? The table, 'cause- Right ... the Rebbe walked to the middle, so the table was blocking the Rebbe. Mm-hmm, yeah. So the Rebbe stepped up. They say other years the Rebbe like swung himself over, but here was a box and

42:15 Speaker 1 the Rebbe stood on the table and jumped off. But I remember as he's jumping off, the table went like that. And then they had to the, the Yemenite label. Was like over the table. Over the table. Anyway, that was Lamed 12. Um, I noticed something interesting Lamed 12 during the day Fabrengen. And, um, it's a long Fabrengen and the Rebbe was washing say around 7:00, 7:30, something like that. And, uh, I remember twenty-five to 1:00, 'cause I was standing behind the Rebbe then. Came a little later, so I didn't have a place. I stood behind. And so I seen the clock the whole time, and like twenty-five to 1:00 the Rebbe, the Rebbe started the Naimer. It was like- Yeah. It's a long Fabrengen. It's a six-hour Fabrengen. The middle of Fabrengen was, uh, we got it was, um, one Yid over there. His name is, uh, Koch. Yisroel Koch from Chabad They said he was very, very active in Mivtzt film. So the Rebbe told him to say l'chaim quite a number of times. At one point, I see the Rebbe, I don't know how the cup got to the Rebbe, a plastic cup, but the Rebbe opens the water, the pitcher of water, which was for the Rebbe, and the Rebbe poured a little bit of water inside the cup. And the Rebbe handed it to Leibl, fill up with wine, and he gave it to, Leibl handed it to Yisroel Koch. I guess this was the last cup. He was, he was

43:54 Speaker 1 quite, uh, whatever. So he stands up. Says, Yisroel,

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47:22 Speaker 1 There are different Simchas Toiras every year has its own tradition. Tosha Lamed Zayin is the first time the Rebbe said a sicha in the middle of Hakafos. Then like I mentioned before, the Indian of the, was going on in Hebron. So before Hakafa Heh, I think it is, Melech Elomin. So the Rebbe turned around to Rabbi Shapincha Katz who was announcing who should go to Hakafos. So the Rebbe looked towards him and the Rebbe started saying something. It looked like the Rebbe wanted to give him an instruction. It became quiet, but the Rebbe started a sicha instead. The Rebbe stepped forward and started saying the sicha. The whole Hakafos, the Rebbe was leaning on his stander and was moedet. And here the Rebbe stepped forward. Basically the Rebbe said that all Levim should go to the Hakafa. It was a zing of the Marcha Yedua to show that Hebron belongs to us, belongs to Levim, belongs to Yidden. Zing of the Marcha Yedua. In a sense, I would say, one of my friends was saying, it looked like the Rebbe was paying back for what he didn't do by the March. The March was so short. Here the Rebbe was like moedet maamish. But the biggest surprise was after the Rebbe finished the sicha, the Rebbe took his siddur, the Rebbe started saying the psukim Melech Elomin so high pitched. I don't know how the Rebbe was able to reach so high. Melech Elomin, Heishiano. Aneinu im charim. It looked so high. Maam, very, very

49:00 Speaker 1 high. The Rebbe screamed the psukim. And the Rebbe was saying the psukim quietly, you know, the small psukim. And some people started to sing and some people were shy, you know. So as soon as the Rebbe finished the psukim, nu, the Marcha Yedua. And he started singing. The Rebbe was moedet so much. There was actually a Yid without a beard right in front of the Rebbe's davening bimah. And he was going to the Rebbe like this the whole time with his hand. So the Rebbe made to him also very strong a lot. But it was a very strong Hakafa. Simchas Toirah night. Again, even though it was a farbrengen before Hakafos, but in the middle of Hakafos again before Hakafa Heh, Melech Elomin. So again, the Rebbe started the sicha. And this time the Rebbe said that all those who are in the army, Tzava, the Mishmar Hagvul, and all different types of Mishmar Hazrachi maybe. All those different types of the Israeli army should all go to the Hakafa. And then the Rebbe said again Melech Elomin. In other words, he was chazan for that Hakafa. But the Rebbe didn't go to the middle. The Rebbe was on his davening place. They didn't know what nigun to sing. So after the Rebbe finished so Rebbe started singing . Um, that was Lammed Zayin. Lamed Heh Lammed Tes wasn't here, Tashin Mem. But that was, I mean, it was , it was, I think, it was the special ones, um, Mem Daled.

50:36 Speaker 5 I think your-

50:36 Speaker 1 What?

50:36 Speaker 5 I think your Hakdama is re-- I think your Hakdama was very important. Give the context.

50:42 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Um, I was gonna say Mem Daled was a very interesting, um, Shemini Atzeres night. And usually, Shemini Atzeres is like a little contained. The Simcha is not all the way as big as usual. Shemini Atzeres night, Tashin Mem Daled, there was like so Moed and such there was almost bent over double. Uh, yeah, yeah. His hand stretched out for his bending, and his hand stretched all the way forward like s-s-so freilech, the, the Hakafas. And the next night, the Rebbe spoke about it. And the Rebbe said that, um, I saw the Tkiyas with, um, um, the stam of the Tkiyas with the Alter Rebbe when the, when there was a Machlikos, who should win the war.

51:38 Speaker 5 Yeah.

51:38 Speaker 1 The, uh, the Alter, if, um, Napoleon or, or, um, Tsar.

51:44 Speaker 5 Tsar.

51:44 Speaker 1 And, uh, it was the sign of Shamin, whoever blows Tkiyas first. And the Rebbe told a story. The Rebbe didn't say the name who was the other. The Rebbe just wanted to stress it was a person, this stam a person. So he said, "Give an Adam more," the Rebbe says, like-

51:58 Speaker 5 Mm-hmm

51:59 Speaker 1 ... stressing. And he says, um, so the other, this Adam more, he told his people right away to get there, they're dumb fast and when, and when he got to Shofar, he picked the Shofar in his hand, and he said, I remember the Rebbe saying this like loud, "I, the Litvak, got farhapt." Like the Litvak, they-- He did it first.

52:19 Speaker 5 Alter Rebbe did it early.

52:21 Speaker 1 The Alter Rebbe was called a Litvak and he, he blew for it. What did, uh, what did Alter Rebbe do? I said, "Well, the, the iker Shofar should be before davening, just like lulav is before davening." Then later you take it and davening again. So same thing, Shofar should be right in the way in the middle. And then you blow again in Musa. But they stopped, there was a takana because, um, the Romans or whoever it was, was getting nervous. They-

52:43 Speaker 5 I think, uh, uh, 'cause the Shekhinata I was reading, I think it says you're not supposed to do it, uh, that early.

52:49 Speaker 1 Not supposed to do that early? Wait.

52:50 Speaker 5 It's just late.

52:50 Speaker 1 Okay. But the main reason-

52:52 Speaker 5 Right. Not that you're not fulfilling the mitzvah, whatever, bifritza you do it later, yeah.

52:56 Speaker 1 Yeah. But the main reason is the Hakhamon said not to because the, the goyim were afraid of making an uprising.

53:03 Speaker 5 Right.

53:04 Speaker 1 But once you do it in the middle of davening, you see it's part of a ceremony. It's not a-an uprising, not a rebellion. Anyway, that was the main reason. But they said that Al- Alter Rebbe went back to the original thing, and he blew shofar first. So you see from this, says the Rebbe, that sometimes you have to be makdim eniyan before the actual time. So here we were makdim, there was Simcha-

53:23 Speaker 5 Um, the Simcha was-

53:23 Speaker 1 ... before the actual time of the Simcha. So it was, uh, like a thing. And so at the end of this farbrengen, the Rebbe says that because of the esarat in the time before Hakafas, so every Yid is able to, to bench another Yid. So everyone should bench. And then at the end, mamash at the last sicha, the Rebbe says, uh, to, to be, um, to, to And the Rebbe said, "Yevarechecha," Adei said Hashem's name, "Ve'yishmerecha." And then he said, "Yar," and everybody screamed Amen. "Yareh havayah," and said, didn't say Hashem's name. "Yareh havayah upon avulach rechamecha." Everybody said Amen. "Yisa havayah panav alecha v'yasem lcha shalom v'ani yevarechim." The next day, the Rebbe explained why he didn't say the whole pasuk of sammu, only v'ani yevarechim. So he said the sammu has to do more with the klalin, but v'ani yevarechim, the Yid, the Yid is the benchers, everybody. It was a atzir after between Hakafas, between farbrengen and Hakafas. Everybody's going around benching each other. It was like and this kiddush outside, everybody's eating, but people going to each other and everybody's benching, benching each other. It was a, a atzir. I mean, they were just benching and they were hugging each other also.

54:38 Speaker 5 Yeah.

54:39 Speaker 1 It was like atzir. That's one thing, Mem Daled. So it was a maftis I saw.

54:44 Speaker 5 Um, it's an interesting thing that I'm noticing from your tir, and everyone talks about the Rebbe, but, but I-- two things you mentioned, I mean, the, the story of the, of the berachos and also the way you started it, everyone felt like one.

55:01 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

55:02 Speaker 5 So it's like the type of the feeling of Simchas Torah brought out, you know, the baruch einu avinu kol hankeich ad. Like it's, it's all together. So-

55:12 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

55:13 Speaker 5 Interesting.

55:13 Speaker 1 So Simchas Torah had this feeling which was yeah.

55:19 Speaker 5 You were saying a maftis that you saw.

55:20 Speaker 1 I saw a maftis. It was the night of Shemini Atzeres, Tashin Mem Daled. And, uh, it was before, around lichman time. You know, the, the, the Rebbe's davening bimah would be moved out-

55:32 Speaker 5 Yeah

55:32 Speaker 1 ... for Hakafas-

55:33 Speaker 5 Make place for the Sukkah.

55:34 Speaker 1 Make place for the Sukkah. And it was two benchers in there. And I saw somebody suddenly screaming, "Hatsalah." It was around lichman time. The Rebbe wasn't there yet.

55:41 Speaker 5 So the, the space for the Sukkah was in the front of Mizrah?

55:44 Speaker 1 Um, no, um, the right side, uh, let's say Durham.

55:47 Speaker 5 Mm-hmm.

55:50 Speaker 1 And so he was calling Hatsalah. The, uh, we saw Leib, the head of Tzach. He was, um, I guess he had something, maybe a heart attack, whatever it was. So something was going on I remember as they were sh- taking him out to the 8th, it's all came and they took him on a stretcher, and as he passed by me then I was standing like towards the front of the shul, uh, oppo- I'd say opposite. There was davening bima in a sense to the left side of the Aron Kodesh, but, uh, near the first beam. So he came out opposite, and as, as, as they took him out and I see Rabbi Leibovitz face, he was on the stretcher. He's white like, uh, what should I say? Like a white tablecloth, like a white shirt. He's w- he's white. He had oxygen on, you know. All right. Next part I didn't see obviously, but, uh, they say that they took him into the ambulance and they told the dear Rebbe that he's not well and they have to take him to hospital. The Rebbe said, "Don't take him to hospital 'cause I won't be able to take care of him. Leave him here. Should be by every davening, every hakafos, everything." That night I didn't see him. I don't think he-- they burned hakafos that night. But from the next day, davening, farbrengen, everything, he was there.

57:06 Speaker 5 Hmm.

57:07 Speaker 1 By the farbrengen before hakafos, they pushed aside two benches where the skeinim would sit behind the Rebbe, and he was on there on a wheelchair behind the Rebbe. By, um, hakafos, lilzman chassidira, he's on the Rebbe's bima on a wheelchair. Now, the Rebbe's bima would be, let's say, it wasn't packed, but it was full of people. You know, anybody who felt he had a excuse to be there would be on the Rebbe's bima. They would bend down so not to block everyone. It would be full, like whatever. And he's on a wheelchair, a little past the Rebbe not to block the Ohel. He's on a wheelchair. In the middle of one of the nigunim, and I see the Rebbe's like looking through the people to catch his eyes, and the Rebbe starts clapping towards him. And suddenly he was like schwach, his, his hands were hanging over the edges of the, of the arms of the wheelchair. He was like on koach and his face is white. And the Rebbe was looking for him. The Rebbe was like, "Hmm." The Rebbe's like clapping towards him. And somebody pokes him like, "Look, the Rebbe's looking at you." So he looks up, and the Rebbe's like, "Hmm." So he starts clapping. I remember my eyes were popping out. I see part of his face, which is white, start to get red . He starts to come back to himself. Anyway. And then after some chassidira I saw him walking around regular.

58:29 Speaker 5 You personally saw this with your own eyes?

58:30 Speaker 1 Yeah, I saw it. It's the only-- I'd say the only time I saw a mefus with my own eyes . I was like, like the Rebbe's making a mefus in front of everybody . Most people I talk to don't remember it. I don't know.

58:42 Speaker 5 Yeah, I never heard this. Um.

58:45 Speaker 1 There's a... If you look in, there's a Yoman of, um, Rishumes Shoshana, Tashamim Dala.

58:50 Speaker 5 Yeah, that's there.

58:51 Speaker 1 And they don't have the whole story. They just mention that he was well-

58:53 Speaker 5 But I've seen the reference to it, yeah

58:55 Speaker 1 ... the Rebbe, they asked about him, you know. That's one thing. Anyway, um, hey, navav. And here's actually the first time I saw the Rebbe showing to whistle on Yom Tov. There was somebody the whole hakafos was whistling on the le- on the left side of Aron Kodesh, you know what I mean?

59:15 Speaker 5 It happened before.

59:15 Speaker 1 The bleachers.

59:17 Speaker 5 Yeah, you said the first time you only s- you saw the Rebbe there.

59:19 Speaker 1 But here at the end, after... It was after Aleinu already, mamash the end. Rebbe said, "Net, net." The Rebbe turned to the wall. The Rebbe showed to whistle, and I was like, "On Yom Tov?" I remember I was talking to somebody on the phone, a shliach, after Yom Tov, and I told him, "The Rebbe said to whistle." He said, "Wow." 'Cause in the famous Sicha Purim Tashlam Tov, the Rebbe says, uh, not Shabbos and Yom Tov.

59:42 Speaker 5 Yeah.

59:43 Speaker 1 So here the Rebbe said that to whistle on Yom Tov. Okay, it's chassidira and so it was a big chiddush.

59:48 Speaker 5 It's kind of the same thing as clapping. I don't know.

59:51 Speaker 1 Yeah. I don't know. And it happened even, uh, more than that, Tashlam Num Beis. There was one time the Rebbe said to whistle on Shabbos, which is an even bigger chiddush. I wasn't here then. Anyway, um, Navav was the Rebbe told-- turned over the cup. It was also a meerdik, uh, scene in the middle of hakafos. And that's also the Mishpat of the Sfarim was like looming in the background, you know?

1:00:17 Speaker 5 Mm-hmm.

1:00:18 Speaker 1 I can't say mamash thinking of it the whole time. But in the middle of, uh, the middle of farbrengen, the Rebbe suddenly turned over his cup. I can't say mamash noticed this. Somebody tells me he saw the Rebbe going like that to take out every drop. But the Rebbe turned over the cup, and the Rebbe starts showing to both sides. And I can't tell what does the Rebbe want. They say Yigal Cam was the first to chap, and he turned over whatever was next to him. Then the Rebbe said something about, uh, to empty the keilim, not to pour out, not, not to waste it.

1:00:50 Speaker 5 Then there's the, the Maised Rebbetsin afterwards.

1:00:52 Speaker 1 Yeah. But then the Rebbe said, um, the Rebbe held the kos, was dama for like an hour. A Sicha, a Nigun, everything. And I think also they sung the . And the Rebbe, the Rebbe's holding the kos in his hand and like-

1:01:09 Speaker 5 The upside-down kos.

1:01:10 Speaker 1 Upside down, and the Rebbe was waving the kos and making freila. The Rebbe was explaining a Sicha. The Rebbe was, "What's the meaning of a cup upside down?" So just like on the Menorah, the Seder, the, the Rambam puts all the cups upside down. What's it mean upside down? Just like the windows of the Beis Hamikdash- ... the light goes from outside. It's the same way. Then, you know, Hashpa comes from the Beis Hamikdash to everywhere, that's why the cups are upside down. So they ended up have- holding a cup upside down. It was like who next to me, Shimon Hecht was next to me. As the Rebbe said that, he goes, "Wow!" Like, "What a beer." The Rebbe's explanation. Anyway. I remember in the middle... I'm, I'm saying I'm-- my place for farbrengen was more on to the Rebbe's left, closer to the back of the shul. And I see on the bleacher on the, the other side, the Aron Kodesh side, I suddenly happened to notice- A kid, a bachur, whatever, maybe he's fifteen years old, something like that, fifteen, sixteen, around that age. Suddenly, the bachur is, he's ho- he, he's holding a cup with something in the mashke wine inside his cup. And he's, like, standing and holding and smiling from the situation, and I think to myself, "You're supposed to turn your cup over. What are you doing?" There's no way I can get a message to him. The split second I thought that, the Rebbe, like, turned to him

1:02:33 Speaker 1 when-- like an emergency, showing his cup, showing the Rebbe, the Rebbe's showing his bachur, telling him like, "It's supposed to be upside down." And the bachur really... By the way, from where I was standing, I was standing on top of a high bench in that farbrengen. There was no mechayim itzkivua by, um... So Chosidim before hakafos was special. There was no mechayim itzkivua in. And, uh, I saw from down there, people are bringing him bottles and bottles. I figure the Rebbe said to empty the bottles. It's, uh, maybe like zeir is off, whatever. I saw bottles, all different kind, whiskey and Drambuie and Benedictine. It just looked like bottles flying in.

1:03:10 Speaker 5 So there wasn't a lot of, uh, drinking Simchat Torah.

1:03:13 Speaker 1 Generally not. In front of the Rebbe, you know, 'cause you wanna see. You wanna know what's going on.

1:03:18 Speaker 5 Yeah.

1:03:18 Speaker 1 But here, I think it was a little more because-

1:03:21 Speaker 5 Yeah

1:03:21 Speaker 1 ... in terms of hakafos was quite... I'd say the Ohel. I mean, they always, Ohel was always freiler, but... And I remember far... But Mimchas, I say there's nothing like Mimchas. It was the last time I was here in Simchat Torah. There's nothing like Mimchas.

1:03:40 Speaker 5 Everybody talks about Mimchas.

1:03:41 Speaker 1 Everybody. One of my wife's uncles, uh, Tannenbaum, Oliver Shalom, Eli Tannenbaum, he said to me, "I remember hakafos from Tashin Yud Dalet." He said, "I remember all the years. There never was hakafos like Mimchas, never." I mean, it's remembering enough from Tashin Yud Dalet. Never was like Mimchas. Some say that the Rebbe, I couldn't notice from where I was standing. Some say the Rebbe brought down an old kapote which the threads were coming out, like ready for work. All I remember is the first night. But I don't remember too much from the first night. But the, um, the Rashag was complaining it's cold. He always gave him the second pasek in Al HaRiza. So this I was told later, and it-- he was like, whatever, uncomfortable. So the Rebbe asked Baruch Eunick, "What does he want?" And it was cold. "Hey, cold." "It's cold. We'll go upstairs." And when they're taking him out during a niggun between Al HaRizas, I, I felt bad for him. As they're schlepping him out, and the Rebbe starts to bimoyd. The, the, the cr- the crowd was going like wow. And, um, anyway, this is the first time. Usually, a niggun Simchat Torah would be five, seven minutes. Mimchas, every niggun was ten, fifteen minutes. The Ohel could not keep up with the Rebbe. The Prushot felt it, that there was no kleidus, and the Rebbe's eyes were burning. He was like looking to everybody and like schlepping out of you the kleidus which you never knew you had.

1:05:18 Speaker 1 It's like it was, uh, it's unexplainable. Now, the place where I was standing in later years, I couldn't see the Rebbe when he danced in the middle. And mostly, you know, I'd seen the Rebbe a few times dancing with Rashag. Rashag, um, he didn't have koach later years. They would dance for a minute.

1:05:37 Speaker 5 Yeah, I read in one of the Yemanim, um, Zayin, that the Rebbe, the Rebbe, Rebbe basically cut it short.

1:05:42 Speaker 1 The Rebbe cut it short?

1:05:43 Speaker 5 Yeah, it says, like, the Rebbe, like-

1:05:44 Speaker 1 Uh-huh

1:05:45 Speaker 5 ... the Rebbe didn't wanna be metiyah. Whatever, it was hard for Rashag to keep it up, yeah.

1:05:47 Speaker 1 It was very hard, very hard to him. And even the first time I remember, I saw Lamed Vav. His heart-- Rashag is dancing, his face is white and like almost like catching his breath, you know?

1:05:58 Speaker 5 Mm-hmm.

1:06:00 Speaker 1 Actually, I heard from Rabbi Sudak. He said during the Yom Kippur War, they, um, by day, said the Rebbe threw his talis over his face, and the Rebbe was like fadveiket. You see, the Rebbe was not in this world, and the Rebbe was like, bimoyd. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and Rashag could- could not... He tried to stop the Rebbe, but the Rebbe wasn't in this world. So they says two guys, Prushot, went and held Rashag to help him go around. He didn't have koach. But generally, it was great. So the later years, it didn't bother me to... I still had a place in the front, so I'd be able to see the Rebbe there. So I'm standing, there's a whole bleacher. I was at the bottom of a bleacher, but it was like... And the, the whole bleacher could-- all the way in the front on the left side. We, we couldn't see the Rebbe in the middle. There was no chance. So we're singing. We're not sing-- you know, don't see the Rebbe. Suddenly, one of us says, "Look, look, look." Says, "What?" Says, "See over there on the one side," and everybody's screaming. The faces are red screaming, all the-

1:06:59 Speaker 5 Oh, that's how it worked. The people that saw-

1:07:01 Speaker 1 And then-

1:07:02 Speaker 5 Yeah

1:07:02 Speaker 1 ... and then I suddenly see they're all catching their breath. On the other side, they're red in the face. They're screaming.

1:07:10 Speaker 5 As the Rebbe turned around.

1:07:10 Speaker 1 It's a minute, minute and a half, and then the Rebbe was turning around. We could see the Sifrei Torah. The Rebbe was holding a Sifrei Torah in his hand, you know, bimoyd. You know, the Rebbe was starting his father's niggun, Mustama. I don't remember exactly. But the other hakafos, the Rebbe made us work hard. I remember the Rebbe's eyes like burning. You know, everybody says the Rebbe has blue eyes. I never noticed it. But the Rebbe's eyes was like... I remember the black. I don't know. The Rebbe's eyes are burning, but not sharp. Like, I don't know, pulling, pulling your koach out of you. It was like looking at everybody. But the most, which I can't forget, is after the seventh hakafa, the last Simchat Torah, and the Rebbe came back. Instead of giving back the Sifrei Torah, I remember Kogan was standing. Everybody tells me I'm wrong, but I remember, uh, Kogan, you know, from, uh, Leningrad.

1:08:01 Speaker 5 Which we just had a feature article on him this-

1:08:04 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:08:04 Speaker 5 ... in the Herian.

1:08:05 Speaker 1 Uh-huh. So, uh- So I remember he was standing there to take the sifrei Torah from the Rebbe and put it back in the Aron Kodesh. But the Rebbe came back to his place. Instead of giving the sifrei Torah, he went up with the sifrei Torah in his hand, and he went up on his bimah. And the Rebbe's waited for the mashbakim, whatever, all the guys on the Rebbe's bimah to go down, bend down, and the Rebbe started, uh, Ufaratzta. I have never ever seen a dance like that. And it was jumpy. I mean, begashmich, I was there. If I should remember first, I was there. Uh, it's jumping. I will not forget at one point, I saw the Rebbe's shoes in the air. He was jumping so much. It was a long time. I didn't look at the clock, but it was a long time, this niggun. And the Rebbe was jumping and jumping and jumping and sifrei Torah to all sides and . Then after the niggun was over, so Kogan reaches for it. He wants to get the sifrei Torah and the Rebbe run, "Ah, get away, get away." 'Cause he saw the Rebbe wants to sing another niggun. The Rebbe started Yet, Yet. It wasn't as much as Ufaratzta, but still, um, freilach. And then the Rebbe takes the sifrei Torah, and he gives such a kiss. I, I'd never seen the Rebbe kissing anything. I mean, the Rebbe kissed film. You don't see it that much. It was such a ahava.

1:09:40 Speaker 1 I mean, everybody who saw it, you saw it so... You've never seen a kiss in your life. Yeah, he kissed the Torah- He kissed the Torah before- With his mouth ... with his mouth before he gave it over to Kogan. I, I'd never seen a kiss like that. It brought tears to my eyes. I'd never seen anything like it. It gave such a kiss. It was like you see the ahava of Torah. It was unbelievable. Anyways, a meydelik, a meydelik, a simcha, simchas Torah. Guys told me, uh, later I was in shlichus. I wasn't able to be here. The guys told me, "If you had to choose a simchas Torah to be the last one, that was a, a good choice." You know. Whatever. Anyway. L'chaim, should we zoche again. Amen. Ishah kach. Yeah. And, uh, in the zechor mitah liv this year. Amen.