Episode 60: The house is burned, the heart is in Gaza, but faith is stronger than anything | With Stav Konio from Nir Oz

00:00 Speaker 1 I’ve been waiting so long for the chance for all of you to hear Stav. Amazing Stav, who has already become an inseparable part of my life. If you listen to the podcast, you’ll understand why. Stav has been through a harrowing journey since peaceful life in Nir Oz was shattered on Simchas Torah, October 7. A breathtaking journey through moments that almost became her last, loss, waiting for beloved family members—and woven through it all, a process of drawing closer to the Creator and a strong faith that helps her get through everything. You’re invited to go through this journey with her, through the difficult moments and to the strengthening message that’s worth waiting until the very last minute of the episode to hear. This episode is dedicated to the speedy return from captivity of Stav’s brothers-in-law, David Diego son of Monica Silvia and Ariel son of Monica Silvia, and of her dear friend and her children, Shiri daughter of Margit, Ariel son of Shiri, and Kfir son of Shiri. And to the elevation of the soul of her brother, who gave his life to save many of the Jewish people, Saar son of Selvin Gershon. A reminder: if you liked this episode and drew strength from it, don’t keep it to yourself. Just pass it on—to your sister, a friend, your mother, a neighbor, anyone who matters to you. To follow me on Instagram, search for Chani Moskowitz. To follow my status, book workshops and lectures on life-changing tools from Chassidus, or join the digital Chassidus by the Spoonful program, it’s all at one phone number: 050-850-5770. The intro, and then we’ll get started right away. How can we turn our lives into lives of shlichus, full of meaning? I’m Chani Moskowitz, a shlucha in Kharkiv, Ukraine, now continuing my shlichus in Karmei Gat, Israel. In this podcast we’ll meet different women who bring shlichus into a variety of fields and, through them, help each of us find and refine our own shlichus in the world. Because living the lives we were created to live is the best there is. Shlichus as a way of life. We’re starting right now. Welcome to another episode of the Shlichus as a Way of

01:55 Speaker 1 Life podcast, and today we’re with Stav Cunio.

01:58 Speaker 2 Hello.

01:59 Speaker 1 Stav, you’re not used to me being this formal.

02:01 Speaker 2 No.

02:02 Speaker 1 Listen, I’m really excited. First of all, I think this podcast is such a combination of, on the one hand, a story—come on—and on the other hand, we know each other so well that it’s crazy to me, like...

02:14 Speaker 2 Right.

02:15 Speaker 1 How has this not happened until now? I have no idea.

02:17 Speaker 2 Well, now is exactly the right time.

02:19 Speaker 1 I think I’m the only one you didn’t have to explain the directions to. I already know my way here. I’m practically part of the family.

02:25 Speaker 2 Totally.

02:26 Speaker 1 Stav, introduce yourself to someone who has no idea who you are, who’s hearing your name for the first time.

02:34 Speaker 2 Okay.

02:35 Speaker 1 You know what? I’ll make it more specific: before you even say where you live, who is Stav? Go on, maybe you’ll surprise me too.

02:44 Speaker 2 Okay. First of all, I’m really excited too. This is truly so exciting, such a special moment. My name is Stav Cunio, I’m thirty-six, married to Eitan Cunio, and the mother of Yifri and Yuval, two sweet girls.

03:03 Speaker 1 I know.

03:04 Speaker 2 I was born in Kissufim, and I grew up there my whole life. My family is from there—my parents, my siblings. I grew up with my brother Saar. I have quite a few other siblings, but they’re much older than me, so he’s the one I grew up with. Life on a kibbutz is very pastoral. You can go anywhere, even from a young age. At five years old, we were already walking along the roads by ourselves, and—

03:45 Speaker 1 A different kind of life.

03:46 Speaker 2 Without our parents. Completely different. Riding bikes alone, getting from place to place without our parents having to be there.

03:55 Speaker 1 It’s funny: every so often you tell me things about the kibbutz, and I think, you don’t actually know any other reality.

04:00 Speaker 2 No.

04:00 Speaker 1 You don’t realize what’s special about it.

04:02 Speaker 2 No.

04:02 Speaker 1 Only now that you’re...

04:04 Speaker 2 Right. Now that I actually live in a city, I understand how complicated it is. With my girls too—I see how complicated it is. There are roads they could run into, and there aren’t lawns or parks right outside the door where you can just go out and play.

04:26 Speaker 1 What seems normal to you?

04:28 Speaker 2 The kibbutz. That’s what feels most normal, and to me it’s the ideal place to raise children. What could be better than being able to do what you want on a kibbutz, where everyone knows everyone? There are advantages and disadvantages, like with anything. A kibbutz is a kind of bubble where everyone knows you, for better or worse. But when it really matters, everyone knows how to surround you with support when you need it. That’s the strength of a community. And that’s the wonderful part. You grow up with the same people, and they simply become your closest friends.

05:10 Speaker 1 One big family.

05:11 Speaker 2 Totally. One big family. You walk along a path and everyone knows you. You say hello, you know who everyone is, where to go, where each person lives. It’s amazing. That’s community life, really—everyone is there for everyone else. That’s why our parents came to live on a kibbutz. There used to be communal sleeping arrangements for the children, but I—

05:40 Speaker 1 You missed out on that.

05:40 Speaker 2 No, I missed that stage. By then we slept at home. Some people say it was very good for them, and others say it was really, really hard. But I grew up at home, and I’m grateful that I grew up with my mother. When I was little, at four years old, my parents divorced, but they both stayed on the kibbutz. So there was a rotation there too: Mom’s place, Dad’s place, Mom’s place, Dad’s place. At first it was hard, but afterward I learned the advantages. You get everything twice. You go here one time, there the next. If there are sweets here, there are sweets there too. They give you a bit of everything. So it was actually okay. As a child, mainly... As a child, in terms of activities, I rode horses for many years.

06:43 Speaker 1 Wow, I didn’t know that.

06:44 Speaker 2 Yes. From fourth grade until after the army, I rode horses, and I competed too.

06:51 Speaker 1 Wow.

06:52 Speaker 2 I did show jumping. But later I decided I’d had enough. I also played the clarinet. I played for two years.

07:04 Speaker 1 Wow.

07:05 Speaker 2 Yes, and then my teacher wanted me to take part in some national concert and keep going with it, but I don’t know, I didn’t want to.

07:13 Speaker 1 Where’s the clarinet?

07:14 Speaker 2 There is no clarinet.

07:16 Speaker 1 Somewhere with all the...

07:17 Speaker 2 Somewhere... I handed it back. I was also an athlete for many years, doing track and field. I ran sprints and competed in the national championships and all that.

07:29 Speaker 1 No way!

07:30 Speaker 2 Yes, sports have always been part of my life.

07:32 Speaker 1 So that’s how you ended up becoming a PE teacher.

07:35 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Then, at twenty-eight, I decided to go for a bachelor’s degree in physical education. I was also a personal trainer and trained groups on our kibbutz. And that’s it. Yes.

07:53 Speaker 1 Wait, for anyone who doesn’t know, Kissufim is in the Gaza border area.

07:57 Speaker 2 It is in the Gaza border area, right.

07:58 Speaker 1 At what point in your life—I’m trying to remember what year it was—did living in the Gaza border area start to feel significant to you? I mean, it isn’t ordinary life. Or did you—

08:12 Speaker 2 I don’t think—

08:12 Speaker 1 You were so close that the mortar shells went right over your heads, so...

08:16 Speaker 2 Honestly, I don’t think I gave it too much thought. I grew up with it; it’s something I was used to. It didn’t really bother me in any way. There were things I thought about: What happens if terrorists come in right now? Even as a child, I’d think, what happens then? I’ll go hide in a certain place, or I’d think about possible places. Right, that isn’t something ordinary, but it didn’t really stop me from living there. To me, our area was truly ninety-five percent paradise and five percent...

09:00 Speaker 1 Hell.

09:00 Speaker 2 Hell. And whenever there was a military operation, you’d leave for a while, come back, and get on with life. So it wasn’t something that weighed on me or made me decide I didn’t want to live in the area anymore. On the contrary, I think—

09:18 Speaker 1 Or you’d learned to live with it.

09:18 Speaker 2 Yes. Even today, it’s hard for me not to go back there. It’s the place I love most in the world. It feels strange not to be there. That’s where I grew up, where I went to school—elementary school, high school—and that’s where I stayed. I don’t think I ever left the area. Maybe for short trips abroad and things like that, but I never left. So it didn’t bother me. It didn’t bother me. As far as I was concerned, you know, if there was a Red Alert or something, you’d go into the safe room. To be honest, we didn’t even close the door.

09:58 Speaker 1 Just like that, it...

09:59 Speaker 2 You wait for the boom. It’s... it’s complete numbness. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but you really do become somewhat numb to the situation, because, I don’t know, life there is so good—

10:11 Speaker 1 I think it affects how you live, too. It’s...

10:13 Speaker 2 I didn’t feel it affecting how I lived in any way. Life there is so good, and it’s so much fun—fun to walk along the paths, fun to be there, fun to go hiking in the area. When I met my husband, Eitan, he was—he works in the chicken coops, he manages them, and he had this Mule, a Ranger. When we were dating, we’d always go on outings and have lots of picnics out in the open. We never felt in danger, like someone might come or something might happen. Never. It never even crossed our minds, because it’s our home. It’s our place. We weren’t... there really was no fear about being there. You didn’t feel it. So...

11:05 Speaker 1 And then you got married and moved—actually, did you move to Nir Oz after the wedding or before?

11:11 Speaker 2 No, I moved there before. I met Eitan when I was twenty-four. We moved in together after a month. It took courage to do something like that.

11:18 Speaker 1 Wow.

11:19 Speaker 2 But we wanted to really give it a try while we were young. We got married when I was twenty-eight. I had Ofri when I was thirty and Yuvali when I was thirty-two. And even when I had the girls, it was so clear to me that I lived there, at Kibbutz Nir Oz. I love that kibbutz very much. I feel deeply connected to it. I think it’s one of the most beautiful kibbutzim in the country. Really. There’s something enchanting about it, and I knew I would raise my girls there, with all the complications here, with all the military operations, with having to go away for a break every once in a while. But it was clear to me. It was clear to me that I was going to raise them there, that that was where I wanted them to be. And you should know, a lot of people asked me, “Aren’t you afraid? Don’t you think they shouldn’t be in a place like that?” No, no. It never occurred to me that I should take them somewhere else or live somewhere else. I couldn’t see any other place for my girls to grow up. So no, I was never afraid. I did have thoughts, like I said before: if something happens, if they get in, what do I do then? But they were just thoughts, nothing more. Things were tense along the border, but you know, all our borders are tense in the end.

12:49 Speaker 3 Right, that’s just it. Sadly, it was almost the Israeli normal. I mean, even today, things happen that are unbelievable and crazy, but you say, this is life here. This is the situation.

12:59 Speaker 2 Right.

13:00 Speaker 3 And there are lots of other families, friends your age, raising children there. So you don’t feel like some oddball who brought her girls to who-knows-where.

13:08 Speaker 2 Absolutely, absolutely.

13:08 Speaker 3 They grow up together. It seems normal. It is normal.

13:13 Speaker 2 Yes.

13:13 Speaker 3 Really.

13:14 Speaker 2 Yes. For everyone who lives in that community, and really for everyone who lives in the area around Gaza, living there is normal. You don’t experience shelling and attempts by terrorists to get in on a daily basis. It’s not... things aren’t so tense that you live with fear every day. No, that’s really not what it’s like there. It’s quiet. You hear the birds.

13:43 Speaker 3 It’s the opposite there. On the kibbutz, the door is just open.

13:46 Speaker 2 Absolutely, absolutely.

13:46 Speaker 3 There’s almost this extra sense of security, and—

13:49 Speaker 2 Absolutely. Even with our dog, we only had to open the door. Here we have to take her downstairs and walk her. Poor thing, even she isn’t used to that. But there, you go outside, you hear the birds, you walk around.

14:05 Speaker 3 The kind of thing people go on vacation for.

14:07 Speaker 2 There’s something different there. There’s something different there. There’s something different there. It’s like a permanent vacation. The kibbutz is a permanent vacation—the beauty, the beauty, the scenery is breathtaking.

14:18 Speaker 3 I think you’re also much more connected to the land.

14:20 Speaker 2 Yes.

14:21 Speaker 3 Here everything feels kind of synthetic. And even here, like I told you, it’s relatively rural compared to the Tel Aviv area. You still have open spaces and grass, and you can see a bit of scenery.

14:34 Speaker 2 Right.

14:35 Speaker 3 There are places where all you see is buildings, buildings, buildings, buildings, and everyone lives in boxes. It’s crazy.

14:40 Speaker 2 Right. That’s true. Yes.

14:44 Speaker 3 Yes, but for you this is a big city, too urban.

14:48 Speaker 2 It’s the most—absolutely, absolutely.

14:50 Speaker 3 It’s funny.

14:51 Speaker 2 This is about as far into city life as I get, so to speak.

14:55 Speaker 3 Really?

14:55 Speaker 2 Yes.

14:55 Speaker 3 And in Nir Oz, everyone had that feeling of, “This is our place.”

15:00 Speaker 2 You know, these are people who work with their hands, and—

15:04 Speaker 3 There was just something written about it today—or maybe I saw an article yesterday—that Gadi Mozes said, “I’m waiting to get back to the land.”

15:10 Speaker 2 Right.

15:11 Speaker 3 He’s someone you grew up with, for example, one of the older people on the kibbutz.

15:16 Speaker 2 Right, right. I personally didn’t grow up in Nir Oz, but my husband Eitan did, and Gadi is one of the kibbutz’s founders, so to speak. So I can understand the desire to rebuild the place, especially when it’s your home. That’s understandable.

15:37 Speaker 3 The land isn’t just some little thing.

15:38 Speaker 2 The land isn’t just some little thing. It really isn’t. It’s different. The smell is different, the air is different. Even walking barefoot, feeling the earth—something I wouldn’t dare do here.

15:50 Speaker 3 You don’t happen to walk barefoot out of the house here?

15:52 Speaker 2 I wouldn’t dare, with all the—

15:54 Speaker 3 Oh, wow.

15:55 Speaker 2 The stuff here, glass and things, and—

15:58 Speaker 3 Yes, yes. No, I wouldn’t recommend it.

15:59 Speaker 2 Not so much, not so much.

15:59 Speaker 3 Don’t try it.

16:00 Speaker 2 But on the kibbutz, yes, absolutely barefoot. Yes. To feel everything, everything. To feel it all.

16:07 Speaker 3 Yes.

16:07 Speaker 2 Yes, from a young age.

16:09 Speaker 3 Do you want to tell us about your connection with Shiri and Yarden?

16:13 Speaker 2 Yes. Shiri is a childhood friend of David and Ari—and Eitan. She grew up with them, and Yarden has also been their friend since first grade. When I met Eitan, I met Shiri too. Shiri had come back from abroad, and we met at a Purim party on the kibbutz. Eitan said to me, “Meet Shiri,” and from then on we were a match, as they say. Sorry. We really became very, very good friends, and we saw each other almost every day.

16:59 Speaker 3 Oh, wow.

17:00 Speaker 2 And I remember Eitan—Eitan and David went abroad for their post-army trip, and I stayed in the apartment. Shiri would come over every day to see how I was and whether I was okay...

17:15 Speaker 3 So you were really close by.

17:17 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

17:17 Speaker 3 On the kibbutz, everything is—

17:18 Speaker 2 On the kibbutz, everything is close.

17:19 Speaker 3 Just a couple of weeks ago, I think, I saw a video Yarden took when he arrived with Ariel to see Kfir for the first time after he was born. Did you see it?

17:28 Speaker 2 Right.

17:29 Speaker 3 And there’s a sign on the door, and he says, “[unclear][?] is making us a sign.”

17:33 Speaker 2 Right, I made that sign.

17:35 Speaker 3 Oh, wow. What a coincidence.

17:36 Speaker 2 Yes, that was our gesture. We loved doing things like that and really giving to each other. I wanted it to be from all of us together, and it was so moving. Shiri and I actually spent our maternity leave together. Ariel and Ofri were together during maternity leave. They’re four months apart. And when she was pregnant with Kfir, she told me she was due to give birth in January. I told her, “Oh no, he can’t have his birthday on January seventeenth, because that’s Yuvali’s birthday.”

18:15 Speaker 3 Right.

18:15 Speaker 2 “We’d have to celebrate their birthdays together every year.” And she listened to me and gave birth on January eighteenth. It was so moving. With us, everything was so close together—in dates and with the children too.

18:33 Speaker 3 Like a sister.

18:33 Speaker 2 Yes, like a sister, like a sister.

18:37 Speaker 3 Wow.

18:39 Speaker 2 You know, sometimes people talk about family, but... sometimes your friends are your family.

18:46 Speaker 3 There’s a saying: “A close friend is better than a distant brother.”

18:48 Speaker 2 Absolutely. That’s exactly how it was with Shiri. I remember one day we were sitting together and saying to each other, “We don’t need more than this. We have each other.” We practically said it together, and it felt so good to know that the feeling was mutual. And we went on lots of family outings together and met up in the afternoons—“Come over for coffee.” Mostly we complained about our husbands. It was funny.

19:23 Speaker 3 What women do.

19:23 Speaker 2 What women do, and only—

19:24 Speaker 3 Complain in general.

19:25 Speaker 2 Yes, mostly complain. You know, at some point the preschools finish up in August. With us, they give the children a few days off. It’s not like in the city.

19:39 Speaker 3 We’re not going to talk about that. It’s a sore point.

19:41 Speaker 2 Yes, absolutely.

19:43 Speaker 3 No, even the names are different. I ask you about daycare, and you say, “Daycare? Oh, the babies’ house.”

19:48 Speaker 2 Yes, the babies’ house. So Shiri would organize things for us. She made a schedule for the two of us.

19:57 Speaker 3 For the breaks...

19:59 Speaker 2 What do we do—what do we do together, right.

20:00 Speaker 3 Wow.

20:01 Speaker 2 Um, so she says to me, “I’ll send you a schedule. Put yourself down for whatever you want.” I said, “Sure, sounds good.” And really, we’d get through it together, and it was fun. It was a way to spend time together and actually do things. Shiri is super creative, super creative, and she has great ideas—things I wouldn’t even have thought of, like all kinds of outings around the kibbutz, collecting things and making crafts with the kids.

20:27 Speaker 3 And you’re like, “What? Sure, put me down.”

20:29 Speaker 2 Totally, totally. So she was the brains and I went along with it. Um, and that’s it. Not many people know that about Shiri, they don’t...

20:39 Speaker 3 Right, I mean, who is she, really?

20:40 Speaker 2 People remember Shiri’s terrified face with two children, and, you know, Shiri has become a kind of symbol. And I’m like, wait, she isn’t a symbol. She’s my friend. There’s so much more to Shiri that nobody really knows: what a sensitive, kindhearted person she is, with incredibly high emotional intelligence. She always notices other people. Always. She’s unbelievably sensitive. And really, super creative. Not many people know that Shiri worked—Shiri studied for a bachelor’s degree in... um, I’ve forgotten what it’s called. You know, she was a preschool teacher.

21:36 Speaker 3 Early childhood education.

21:36 Speaker 2 Yes. She was a preschool teacher, and not many people know who Shiri really is.

21:46 Speaker 3 Right, just that orange, orange image.

21:47 Speaker 2 And Shiri, as you saw from how frightened she was—Shiri is someone who smiles all the time. It was hard to see that. It was hard to see her so terrified. And I miss her. I miss her in every part of my body. Walking along the paths, thinking, where are you, and when will we see each other? I want you. I want to be with you. I need you as my friend, so we can... come on, let’s take a breath together through all this. How are we not together through all this? It’s crazy. It’s hard. This is a subject that’s hard for me. It’s hard for me to take in, to understand.

22:36 Speaker 3 It’s such a state of limbo, too, because you don’t know what’s happening. So—

22:40 Speaker 2 Yes.

22:41 Speaker 3 It’s not as if you can say, “Okay, that’s it.” No, it isn’t over. Wow, this madness of not knowing—it’s unbearable.

22:49 Speaker 2 It isn’t over. It isn’t over until we bring them back, as quickly as possible.

22:56 Speaker 3 Wow.

22:57 Speaker 2 It isn’t over.

22:58 Speaker 3 I was going to ask you when you actually realized they’d been kidnapped, but we’ve already gotten ahead of ourselves. Let’s go back for a moment to October sixth.

23:04 Speaker 2 Yes. October sixth was the holiday. We were all together. The whole family really was there, complete: all the brothers, all their partners, all the children. Eitan’s grandmother was there, and we even took a family photo. Sharon’s sister was there with her daughter, too. It really was such a happy time.

23:34 Speaker 3 Let’s get things straight for a moment. I’m doing this for everyone who—I already know.

23:39 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

23:39 Speaker 3 You’re Eitan’s wife. He has a twin brother named David Cunio, who’s currently in Gaza.

23:46 Speaker 2 That’s right.

23:47 Speaker 3 I hope that by the time we publish this, it won’t be relevant anymore. He has a brother, Ariel, who is also still being held captive. His partner, Arbel, came back a week and a half ago now.

24:00 Speaker 2 A little over a week ago, baruch Hashem.

24:02 Speaker 3 Right, a week and a day. And David’s wife, Sharon, has twins, Emma and Yuli. They were held captive by Hamas and were released after fifty-something days, when the first people came back.

24:15 Speaker 2 Right, right.

24:16 Speaker 3 Okay.

24:16 Speaker 2 Exactly.

24:17 Speaker 3 And, um, one second—

24:18 Speaker 2 And Danielle.

24:18 Speaker 3 It doesn’t end there. Sharon has a sister named Danielle, and her daughter, Emily.

24:23 Speaker 2 Emilia.

24:24 Speaker 3 Emilia. And they were there too, and came back.

24:27 Speaker 2 Right, right.

24:28 Speaker 3 Wow, it’s just...

24:29 Speaker 2 And Shiri, who’s still there, and Yarden, who, baruch Hashem, has just come back. Yes.

24:35 Speaker 3 It’s crazy how many circles of people there are. I mean, you’re saying you all sat together at a Yom Tov meal the day before, and the next day most of them just disappeared.

24:43 Speaker 2 No, most of them disappeared. Yes, most of them disappeared. And even the ones who weren’t with us at the Yom Tov meal—Shiri and Yarden—they’re the people closest to us. Just to give you a sense of how close they are to our hearts: when we’d celebrate birthdays as a family—for example, when I’d make a birthday party for Ofri, I wouldn’t do it with friends and everyone. I’d do it with family. And Shiri and Yarden were always included. There was no question about it, and it was the same for us with them. They aren’t friends; they’re family. I wouldn’t invite girlfriends over, and—

25:23 Speaker 3 They’re your family, basically.

25:25 Speaker 2 They’re absolutely family, part of the family. They were always at every birthday, every occasion. So, yes. They weren’t with us on Friday because they were with their own family, but they’re completely part of ours.

25:39 Speaker 3 You’re eating a Yom Tov meal.

25:41 Speaker 2 Eating a Yom Tov meal, enjoying ourselves, singing, drinking. It’s wonderful. How wonderful to be together. We finished the evening fairly late—even later than usual, I think. We really wanted to stay. Then everyone went home. At one point I even felt a little unwell, but my husband went over to his brothers. He sat at David’s house with Sharon, some other friends, and his brother Ariel. I went to sleep that night. Eitan came back late; I don’t know exactly when. At six in the morning, the girls had slept in the room with me, and I was moving Yuvali back to their bedroom so she could sleep a little longer. Then a Red Alert—suddenly, the Red Alerts started. I thought, okay, maybe it’s a mistake. Then another Red Alert, and another. I thought, okay, this isn’t a mistake. I left Yuval in the room and ran to Eitan and Ofri, who were in our room. I called to him, “Honey, get up, get up, get up. It’s a Red Alert. Bring Ofri to the safe room, quickly.” We stayed in the safe room, and the Red Alerts wouldn’t stop. We couldn’t understand what was happening. I sent a message to my sister-in-law Sharon: “Do you know what’s going on?” We’d been sending messages in the family WhatsApp group, but I think I messaged her privately. “Do you know what’s going on?” She told me, “No, nothing happened beforehand.” We started messaging each other, and Eitan was messaging in the family WhatsApp group too. Everyone was saying the same thing: nobody understood what was going on. Then we started hearing explosions, and we began to realize that something much bigger was happening. This wasn’t just another military operation that would mean we’d have to leave for a while. My husband was also sending messages on—there’s something called Mekomi, where people send messages around the kibbutz to keep each other updated, and everyone was sending

28:02 Speaker 2 messages there. Around seven thirty, my brother-in-law Ariel sent a message saying there were terrorists dressed as soldiers on the kibbutz, near the clinic. I was sure he was joking. I even wrote back, “Why are you scaring us now? What’s going on with you?”

28:25 Speaker 3 Wow.

28:26 Speaker 2 “Why would I joke about something like that?” He told us there were instructions to turn off the lights, lock the doors, go into the safe room and keep quiet. I thought, wow, this suddenly takes me back. I’d been through having to keep quiet before, because there had been an infiltration in Kissufim.

28:48 Speaker 3 Oh, really?

28:48 Speaker 2 Yes, when I was younger. But I thought, okay, I remember that as something they brought under control really quickly. There’s an army.

28:57 Speaker 3 Like, okay, five minutes, half an hour, and...

29:01 Speaker 2 Then it would be over.

29:03 Speaker 3 Yes.

29:03 Speaker 2 But no. Suddenly I was getting messages from friends who could hear gunfire near them—and this was inside the kibbutz. Then a friend sent me—I think everyone saw that first video with the white pickup truck in Sderot. A friend who lives in Be’er Sheva sent me the video, and I said, “What is this?” I was sure she was pulling my leg, sending me some nonsense. Then another friend, from a nearby kibbutz, sent a message saying there was gunfire on their kibbutz. I started to realize, okay, this is huge. Very quickly, we began hearing gunfire outside our house. That was when we fastened the bolt—we have this bolt on the door, and we decided to fasten it.

29:54 Speaker 3 You already had a bolt, just in case?

29:56 Speaker 2 The bolt was there because the people who lived there before us had installed it. You know, it’s as if their souls—

30:03 Speaker 3 Yes.

30:04 Speaker 2 —knew what was going to happen later.

30:06 Speaker 3 Right, because was that something other residents had prepared as a matter of course?

30:10 Speaker 2 Well, I can tell you that my brother, I mean—

30:13 Speaker 3 It makes sense, but—

30:16 Speaker 2 Um—

30:16 Speaker 3 Nobody had experienced anything like this, so...

30:18 Speaker 2 I can tell you that my brother is the rabbi of [unclear], in Kissufim. He did tell people to put bolts on their doors. He had a feeling something big was going to happen, so he told people in Kibbutz Kissufim to do that. But in Nir Oz, no. My husband had put one on, and it just so happened that we’d moved into this house, and at that moment it helped us. We locked the door. I’m sitting on the beanbag, with Ofri on my lap, and there’s gunfire. I tell Ofri, “It’s probably the army. They’re fighting the bad people right now, and it’ll be over soon. It’ll be over soon. Put your hands over your ears. It’ll be over in a little while.” All this time, I have this very, very strong urge to say Shema Yisroel. I say it over and over, and I even tell Ofri, “Say it with me.” A few more minutes pass, and the shooting goes on. I’m thinking, What’s happening here? Why isn’t this ending? How has the army not gotten control of it? What’s going on? And I think to myself, What are the chances they’ll come into my house? Two years earlier, a Qassam rocket had hit my house directly.

31:46 Speaker 3 Oh, wow.

31:46 Speaker 2 Statistically—

31:48 Speaker 3 It came into the house?

31:49 Speaker 2 It came into the house.

31:50 Speaker 3 It went through the...

31:51 Speaker 2 It hit, went through—

31:53 Speaker 3 Oh, wow.

31:53 Speaker 2 It wrecked the house, you could say. It hit the girls’ playroom, and all their toys were gone. And you know what’s strange? When that happened, I said to my husband, “Okay, this time let’s put all the toys in the safe room, because if, G-d forbid, another rocket hits there...”

32:19 Speaker 3 It was like—

32:20 Speaker 2 So we don’t lose the toys.

32:22 Speaker 3 Oh, wow.

32:23 Speaker 2 So I’m thinking, Okay, statistically, we’ve already survived one. And just as I finish that thought—bang, bang on the door. They break through the door and come into our house. Terror. Sheer terror. I was so scared I wet myself. But I ran to hold the safe-room door. I did it automatically. I ran to hold the handle so they couldn’t get in, completely forgetting there was a bolt. At some point I tell my husband, “Here, hold the door for a bit. There’s no way I can fight them off. You’re stronger than me. Bring me Yuval.” When he went to bring me Yuval, they slipped on my urine, fell and hit their heads, and Yuval started crying. They heard her crying. My husband is holding the door, and I say to Ofri, “Ofri, you have to be quiet, because if you’re not quiet, they’ll murder all of us.” I have to put my hand over Yuval’s mouth to keep her quiet, and I’m praying I’m not suffocating her to death. I just wanted her to be quiet. We wait to see what’s going to happen. Everything I’m telling you happened in seconds, but it felt like very, very long minutes between their reaching the door and what was happening to us inside the safe room. There’s this sort of vacuum, like in a movie, when you feel caught in a loop and something is closing in around you. That’s what it was like. I’m thinking, This can’t be happening to us right now. What do I do with the girls? What now? They’ll come in, take us, G-d forbid, rape me, murder the girls, take us away, murder us, take the girls. Every worst thought goes through my head. We are thinking

34:29 Speaker 2 about being kidnapped at that point. At least I am; I don’t know if my husband was. They come closer to the door. Silence. They haven’t tried the handle. My husband puts his ear to the door and hears them pouring gasoline on it. Very quickly he says to me, “What, are they burning us?” I say, “No way. Burning us? What’s happening?” He says, “Look.” A lot of smoke is coming in under the door, and I say, “Come on, how am I supposed to get out of here now? What am I supposed to do?” More and more smoke comes in, and at that moment we decide not to go out. We think, Okay, let’s wait for them to leave. They’ve set the place on fire, so they probably think we’re suffocating in here. We’ll try to get out the window once they—once they’ve set the fire, we assume they’ll run off. There’s nothing more for them to do in our house. A few minutes pass, about twenty minutes, and I say, “Okay, open the window. I can’t breathe anymore.” When he goes to open it, a wave of smoke comes into the safe room. They’d set fire to the outside too. We had a storage shed against the safe-room window, and they’d set it alight. So much smoke came in. The whole thing was burning—the entire window and the outside wall were in flames—and all this black smoke came inside. I told him, “Close it, close it quickly, or we’ll suffocate.” Meanwhile, he’s trying to contact people outside who might come rescue us as fast as possible, because we’re suffocating in there. He manages to get hold of a friend of ours on the local emergency response team, and another friend who puts my husband in touch with a doctor. The doctor tells

36:32 Speaker 2 us to lie on the floor and try to cover ourselves with things. We didn’t have anything, so we just lay on the floor. Meanwhile, my husband is trying every possible way to get us out. He tried to open the metal window, but he couldn’t because it was burning. He grabbed the beanbag, and it burst open—everything tore. He tried to open the door, to undo the bolt, but he couldn’t, because the door had warped from the fire too, and the door handle broke. We realized—

37:07 Speaker 4 It’s impossible even to hear this.

37:10 Speaker 2 We realized we were trapped inside and had no way out. And you have those thoughts: “This is it. In another moment, I’m going to leave this world.” We decided to say goodbye to our girls. We looked at each other and said, “We have to say goodbye to the girls. We can’t let them go like this.” We hugged our girls and told them we loved them very much, and that we were so sorry we probably wouldn’t be able to save them, and that we were going to die. But at least we’d all die together, holding each other. We hugged them and lay down on the floor. I was lying on the floor with Ofri, already getting dizzy from all the smoke. I couldn’t really tell where I was anymore. I only remember Ofri lying beside me. I had no idea where Yuval was, because Eitan had taken her with him. I think he laid her down near me, but a little way off. Eitan didn’t want to give up. He tried once more to get the window open. He tried to pull out the air conditioner, because he understood that no one could come rescue us right then. He said, “I’m not staying here. I have to save my family.” He tried everything he could, until he said to me, “I can’t do any more.” He fell to the floor. I tried to get up and reach the door to open it. I couldn’t open my eyes because of the smoke, and I couldn’t reach the door. I just collapsed right before I could try to push it. I crawled back to Ofri, because, again, I had no idea where Yuval was. I was terribly dizzy by then. Everything felt heavy; everything hurt. But I had to get to Ofri and put a hand on her

39:15 Speaker 2 so she wouldn’t die alone. Just the thought of her suffocating alone was very, very hard for me. I was glad Eitan was with Yuval and she wasn’t alone. I got back to Ofri and lay down beside her. There was a blanket in the room, a purple blanket, and at some point I was just very cold. So cold—my whole body was shaking. The room was burning, the house was burning, burning, burning. It had all gone up in flames. I was starting not to hear anyone anymore. Just before I lost consciousness, I turned to Hakadosh Boruch Hu and said, “If You save me and my family from death, I vow to do teshuvah.” Then I passed out. I don’t remember anything after that.

40:10 Speaker 4 Oh, no.

40:11 Speaker 2 After a while, I came to with pain in my legs. My legs hurt so, so much, and I was feeling around them, trying to understand where I was, where I was in that space, where my body even was in all of this. And I said to him, “Is this what dying is like? It hurts to die this way, you should know.” That’s a sentence I’ll never forget. Then I passed out again, and I don’t remember anything after that. After such terrible pain, suddenly nothing hurt. I felt comfortable, really comfortable. I wasn’t cold anymore; my body didn’t hurt. I didn’t know where anyone was in the room, and I couldn’t hear anyone. I don’t know what happened during that time. Meanwhile, my husband thought—he was recording a message to our friends saying they had to come quickly because he couldn’t go on. We weren’t answering him anymore. He already thought we were dead. None of us was making a sound, none of us was functioning, nothing. Around midday, a friend from our emergency response team sent us a message: “I’m coming. I’m coming to you.” Eitan managed to come to—he had also passed out and woken up several times. He got up and said, “I’ll try to open the bolt this time,” and he did. Miraculously, after several hours, he simply managed to open it.

41:49 Speaker 4 So this whole ordeal had already been going on for hours, with you there, unconscious.

41:53 Speaker 2 We were inside the safe room for five and a half hours. Five and a half hours inside a safe room, breathing in enormous amounts of smoke. So much smoke. Black smoke. I don’t know what they burned there, but black, black, black smoke was coming in, and we were breathing it in. After five and a half hours, our friend managed to reach us. He joined up with another friend from the emergency response team, and the two of them managed to get to us. They had to put cloth over their faces because of all the smoke and flames. They came in; they managed to reach us. I do remember suddenly hearing Eran. Eran was shouting to us, “Eitan! Eitan!” And suddenly I managed to wake up. He came in, and Eitan said, “Get the girls out, quickly.” Eitan got out on his own. They carried me. They put us on the grass and guarded us with their weapons. We didn’t know what the situation was in the kibbutz, whether there were terrorists there. At some point I went into shock and started convulsing. Luckily, our two friends were there, and one of them, Benny, is a medic. He managed to perform a few resuscitation measures on me. They evacuated us to the kibbutz command center as quickly as possible. The soldiers arrived and took my girls. Eitan managed to walk on his own; I couldn’t. I was very weak, so Benny carried me like a wounded person. We got there, and they started assessing what was going on. I remember my head hurting like crazy. I couldn’t even move it like this because it hurt so much. They wanted to give us oxygen as quickly as possible. Our oxygen saturation was very, very low. My friend Koren is a nurse. She was trying to—she was under pressure. She filled in a lot of the story for me afterward. She was desperate to give us

44:08 Speaker 2 oxygen as quickly as possible, because she could already see that we were starting to lose it. We were sort of responding to her, but not really, when she spoke to us. Around six in the evening, they managed to take us to the hospital. A little before they took us, we started seeing people arriving at the command center. We began to recover a little because they’d given us some oxygen, so we could sit up. The girls actually recovered quickly, boruch Hashem. Eitan’s eyes were burning badly because he’d kept them open the whole time, trying to get us out and rescue us. It was very hard for him to open them afterward. And there... I don’t remember this, but Eitan says that it was there that he heard the news about his twin brother David and Ariel: they’d been kidnapped along with Sharon and the girls. We still didn’t really know what was happening, but we reached the hospital. There we started hearing more reports about people who had been murdered in the kibbutz and people who had been kidnapped. That was where it was truly confirmed that they had been kidnapped. That was where I first heard that Shiri, the children, and Yarden had been kidnapped. At first I heard only about Shiri and the children. I didn’t understand where Yarden was. I didn’t understand what had happened to him. No one had said anything to me about him. I kept saying, “Where’s Yarden?” Had they only kidnapped Shiri and the children? Where was he? I was already afraid he was dead, that they had murdered him. Then we received a video, the video everyone saw, of Yarden on the motorcycle, and I understood that they had kidnapped him. There were so many gaps in what we knew about what had happened there. We couldn’t piece it together. That day, too, we had been writing in our family WhatsApp group—

46:07 Speaker 2 our family group with our married friends, David, Sharon, Yarden, Shiri, Eitan and me. That morning we’d even joked a little about everything that was happening. “Take care of yourselves, love you”—our usual WhatsApp conversations. We never imagined for a moment what was about to happen to us.

46:32 Speaker 5 You can’t imagine something like that.

46:33 Speaker 2 And in an instant, so many people we love were gone—kidnapped. We were left—

46:43 Speaker 5 What about Eitan’s parents, though? Where were they throughout that day?

46:48 Speaker 2 They tried to get into their house, but nothing else in particular happened there. We saw them at the kibbutz command center. After we got to the hospital, we stayed overnight for observation, to make sure the girls were all right. We were admitted, and the next day we were discharged. We decided to go to Mishmar HaNegev. Both our families were there, and we said, okay, they’ll give us an apartment there, and we can take a moment to get ourselves together. On Monday morning, I went on Facebook and was scrolling when I saw a post saying my brother was missing. My cousin had written it, and I thought, “Okay, that’s strange.” My brother was a fighter, the kibbutz security coordinator. He had a senior role. What was going on? It wasn’t like him to go missing. I called my mother and said, “Mom, I just saw a post about Saar. What’s going on? Why does this feel so, so wrong?” She had already been on her way to tell me that, sadly, my brother had fallen in the kibbutz on October 7. He fought dozens of terrorists with tremendous courage. During the final searches, they split up. My brother refused to go home. He wanted to stay until the last civilian in the kibbutz had been brought out of their home. He was looking out for security coordinator Nochi Chai[?], and when he and another soldier went up the stairs, they were hit by a burst of gunfire. They fell on the spot. And that was it. I remember—I’ll never forget it. I let out the scream of my life. I don’t think I’ve ever screamed like that. It was a refusal to accept something so enormous. To me, it didn’t make sense that my brother could ever die. I kept thinking, it isn’t possible. It doesn’t seem possible that someone like him could be gone. I received that terrible news, and something inside me just shut down, sealed itself off.

49:13 Speaker 2 It stayed sealed off for a long time, actually. The next day we decided to go to Eilat, to be with the whole community. I told Eitan, “This is too much for me here. Let’s go.” We got there. It wasn’t easy. It wasn’t easy. Everyone was crying. It was sad and hard. Everyone was trying to pick up the pieces and understand what had happened.

49:36 Speaker 6 When you say “the whole community,” you mean those who were left.

49:38 Speaker 2 Those who were left of the community. We hugged one another. That’s a moment I’ll never forget. You’re trying to understand what has just hit you. You realize it didn’t happen only to me; it happened to an entire community. There’s something so powerful and present in that. We were there for three months, and that’s where my journey toward teshuvah began. I said, “Okay, this is the deal. We made a deal. You brought me out alive, boruch Hashem—me, my husband, my girls. There was a deal between us. You kept your side of the deal. Now it’s my turn to keep mine.”

50:30 Speaker 6 You know, it’s truly unbelievable, the way you describe how you felt, how you passed out, the whole situation—and you’re alive. If I didn’t know... It really is a walking miracle. It’s unbelievable.

50:45 Speaker 2 It wasn’t just one miracle. It was a whole series of miracles that happened to us that day. So many realizations that if we’d done this or that, things would have ended differently. Looking back, being trapped in the room saved us. As hard as it is to say, that’s the truth. I don’t want to think about what would have happened if we’d actually had to get out through the window. We probably wouldn’t be talking today. And that’s what saved us. Being trapped inside, unable to get out, almost killed us, but it also saved us. There was an incredible series of miracles there. Every time I go over what happened, I understand more and more how miraculous it was. And I said, if He did something this great and didn’t take us—when He could have taken us just like that—then it’s time for me to keep my end of the deal. And that’s how the journey began. I always believed in the Creator. Even as a teenager, I believed. In my twenties, I also tried going to Chabad, to a seminary. I tried being there. I don’t think you knew that.

52:16 Speaker 6 Of course, yes.

52:17 Speaker 2 When I was twenty, I went with a friend in Tel Aviv. We walked into a Chabad House, and I tried to become observant.

52:26 Speaker 6 Where, in north Tel Aviv?

52:27 Speaker 2 Honestly, I don’t remember where it was.

52:29 Speaker 6 You took a peek and came away unscathed.

52:31 Speaker 2 I took a peek, I did. And here’s another thing: around that time, the Lubavitcher Rebbe appeared to me in a dream. He was sitting there in his suit, with other people beside him, and he said something to me that wasn’t characteristic of the Rebbe. Looking back, I know now that it wasn’t characteristic of the Rebbe or his approach.

53:00 Speaker 6 Something good?

53:00 Speaker 2 Yes. I walked up to him wearing a tank top, and he said to me, “Why aren’t you dressed modestly?”

53:08 Speaker 6 How strange is that?

53:10 Speaker 2 And then the dream ended. I hadn’t known the Lubavitcher Rebbe before that. I had no connection to him, none. I’m from a kibbutz.

53:20 Speaker 6 There was no place for that in your world, so to speak.

53:21 Speaker 2 I wasn’t someone who observed Torah. I always believed there was something above me, but I didn’t know how to put it into words. I quickly went and bought pictures of the Rebbe and put them in my room, in my apartment. It felt like they were protecting me.

53:39 Speaker 6 You’re talking about when you were twenty?

53:40 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Before I actually decided to go to that seminary. That came afterward, after the dream about the Rebbe. But I backed out pretty quickly. I couldn’t stay there because the whole situation overwhelmed me. I went back to my outdoor parties.

54:04 Speaker 6 Outdoor parties don’t sound like something...

54:07 Speaker 2 Yes...

54:09 Speaker 6 Especially Torah-oriented.

54:11 Speaker 2 No. Right, right. But back then I didn’t have those fears. I went out, had fun, went to parties and all that. But the belief was always there. I never did anything with it, but it was always there. A few years before October 7, say two or three years earlier, I did make an attempt. I took on a little bit regarding Shabbos and family purity, and praying. And how did that start? I wrote to the Rebbe through Igros Kodesh because I wanted to get pregnant, and he told me to take something on...

54:57 Speaker 6 So you were doing that already back then.

54:58 Speaker 2 No, this was when I wanted to get pregnant after Ofri, when I was around thirty.

55:05 Speaker 6 That’s when you started with Igros Kodesh. Right.

55:09 Speaker 2 Through my Rebbetzin, actually. I was at her place, and we opened the volume there. I wanted to get pregnant and hadn’t been able to, so I wrote to the Rebbe. He told me to start saying the morning blessings. A month later, I got pregnant. Because he told me, “It will happen.” He blessed me, and it really did happen. I started saying them, and at first I was very scared. How was I going to do this in front of my husband? What was I supposed to do? It was all new. At first, it took me so long just to say the morning blessings. Slowly, I began taking things on, but only in a very small way. A year before October 7, because it was causing a lot of problems in our marriage, I stopped everything. Then October 7 happened, and that sealed it for me. My husband was saying, “Don’t make a vow, don’t make a vow,” but I was making one. I had this need to promise myself that it was going to happen.

56:28 Speaker 6 It was like you were saying, “This time, I’m serious.”

56:31 Speaker 2 This time, I’m serious.

56:32 Speaker 6 Yes.

56:32 Speaker 2 This time it would be serious. But I admit that after October 7, something happened inside me. I went into a kind of anxiety attack. And I think this happens to a lot of people who become observant: coming back out of fear rather than love. I was thinking, okay, He punished me. So should I understand what happened as a punishment? Because He punished me. Then everything comes from fear, as though—

57:10 Speaker 6 Of course.

57:10 Speaker 2 I have to take these things on, because if I don’t do this, that will happen to me. And if I don’t do that, something else will happen. So much fear. At first, there were several very confusing months when I kept thinking, what am I doing?

57:24 Speaker 6 On top of the fact that your whole routine was turned upside down.

57:28 Speaker 2 I’d been through everything I’d been through, and I said to Him, “You have to send me people who will help me. I can’t go on just being afraid of You. It doesn’t make sense. I won’t be able to keep this up. If I’m afraid of You, I’d rather not do anything at all.” And Hakadosh Boruch Hu heard me and sent me people. You, ma’am.

57:58 Speaker 6 I was privileged to meet you, dear soul.

58:00 Speaker 2 And wonderful Shendi. And to be welcomed into your homes.

58:07 Speaker 6 Wait, so you came to Karmei Gat. Hold on.

58:09 Speaker 2 Right, right. That’s something I didn’t mention.

58:11 Speaker 6 You know, it’s funny. Go back, what, two years? Or let’s say even further, three years. I’m in Ukraine, you’re in Nir Oz. What connection could there possibly be? Really, what connection?

58:24 Speaker 2 What connection?

58:25 Speaker 6 These days I think I see you more than I see my family.

58:26 Speaker 2 Completely. I say, “I’m going to my friend’s.” “Where?” “Bye, I’m going!”

58:32 Speaker 6 It’s crazy.

58:33 Speaker 2 Yes.

58:33 Speaker 6 I think we arrived here around the same time, too. It took each of us a while to get settled, but we got here at roughly the same time.

58:39 Speaker 2 More or less.

58:40 Speaker 6 That’s right. It’s been a year now.

58:41 Speaker 2 More or less. Right, right, we’ve been here a year.

58:44 Speaker 6 Yes.

58:44 Speaker 2 Right. We came from Eilat to Karmei Gat. People welcomed us so warmly here. It really touched my heart. My journey toward becoming observant had already begun in Eilat, though, and the fears had started there too. Something about it didn’t seem right to me. That carried over here a little, until—how did it begin? Shendi’s husband came to kasher my kitchen. That’s how I met Shendi, and I told her my story. She told me about Tanya and said I really had to come to the classes. So I went to a Tanya class at Shifra’s. I had also said to Hakadosh Boruch Hu, “Send me classes. Send me something I can get to know, learn, experience,” and not—

59:41 Speaker 6 Something that would fill you.

59:42 Speaker 2 Yes. I didn’t want everything to come from constant fear. I didn’t want to live that way.

59:46 Speaker 6 But wait, you came to a very specific class.

59:49 Speaker 2 I did. I think it was chapter 18, if I’m not mistaken.

59:56 Speaker 6 Right.

59:56 Speaker 2 It was about mesirus nefesh, self-sacrifice. She was speaking, and nothing happens by chance. I started talking and telling them about my brother’s mesirus nefesh and my own. I went to that one class, but I realized it was too advanced for me. I needed something introductory. I thought, how am I going to find a class that starts Tanya from the beginning? I was drawn to it. I really enjoyed the class, and I said, now I have to learn it from the beginning. Then we came to your place. It was a farbrengen.

1:00:42 Speaker 7 It was a women’s evening.

1:00:42 Speaker 2 A women’s evening.

1:00:44 Speaker 7 We held it in honor of—well, not exactly in honor of—around the start of the Three Weeks.

1:00:48 Speaker 2 Right.

1:00:49 Speaker 7 It was about Jerusalem.

1:00:50 Speaker 2 Right.

1:00:50 Speaker 7 Do you remember?

1:00:51 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:00:51 Speaker 7 There were songs.

1:00:52 Speaker 2 And we also watched...

1:00:52 Speaker 7 Through those goggles.

1:00:53 Speaker 2 Right.

1:00:54 Speaker 7 Yes. I remember when you arrived, I thought to myself, “Wow, she’s from a kibbutz. How is she going to take all this?”

1:01:00 Speaker 2 She took it in. She can take it.

1:01:02 Speaker 7 And I think we ended up talking there until one in the morning.

1:01:05 Speaker 2 Right. I told you a little about the...

1:01:08 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:01:08 Speaker 2 The story. And then suddenly you came over and said, “It would be fun to learn Tanya together.”

1:01:13 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:01:14 Speaker 2 I thought...

1:01:14 Speaker 7 By then, the idea was already taking shape in my mind. I thought, that’s it, we’re starting.

1:01:16 Speaker 2 We’re starting.

1:01:16 Speaker 7 Here’s someone who’s...

1:01:19 Speaker 2 Right.

1:01:19 Speaker 7 Chassidic, as they say.

1:01:20 Speaker 2 And I said, “Okay, I want to.” And we really did start learning Tanya together. We were a very, very, very small group.

1:01:28 Speaker 7 Right.

1:01:28 Speaker 2 And today it’s...

1:01:30 Speaker 7 Yes, yes, it’s grown and grown.

1:01:31 Speaker 2 It’s become big, and it’s wonderful. And beyond that, I wrote to the Rebbe again through Igros Kodesh. Every... about every month and a half, I try to write to him and, of course, update him. And he... he kept coming back to Tanya. How much I need to learn Tanya...

1:01:51 Speaker 7 Right.

1:01:51 Speaker 2 And how much I need to spread Chassidus, and that this is my shlichus, and that he’s happy I’m doing it, and how much good it does in Heaven. And... through Tanya, I really began to understand who we are, what we are, what our souls are like—that we’re okay; this is how He created us. We don’t need to...

1:02:16 Speaker 7 All those things suddenly clicking into place, right?

1:02:18 Speaker 2 Like...

1:02:19 Speaker 7 Yes, absolutely.

1:02:20 Speaker 2 Okay, I’m normal. I understand what He wants, what I need to strive for, and what I need to do.

1:02:25 Speaker 7 I don’t have bugs, I don’t have...

1:02:27 Speaker 2 But I don’t have bugs, so to speak.

1:02:28 Speaker 7 No, I mean, we all have the same bugs...

1:02:30 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:02:30 Speaker 7 But they’re not bugs.

1:02:31 Speaker 2 But they’re not bugs. Yes, this is how we’re made; this is how He wanted us.

1:02:35 Speaker 7 Exactly.

1:02:35 Speaker 2 And really, to shine a light for us on... on that, to put a spotlight on it and say, “Okay, there’s something we can do with this.” There’s... there’s material here to work with, and that’s part of my healing process too. And that’s also how my talks began.

1:03:00 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:03:01 Speaker 2 I started giving talks on a very small scale.

1:03:03 Speaker 7 At my birthday.

1:03:04 Speaker 2 Right.

1:03:05 Speaker 7 That was the first time...

1:03:06 Speaker 2 Right.

1:03:06 Speaker 7 That it was like that.

1:03:07 Speaker 2 Right. Telling the story, and it gradually grew over time. At first, even the way I spoke about it was very limited. But the more Tanya I learned, and the more I came to understand and listen, the more I began to understand what I actually wanted to convey in my talks and what my shlichus is here. Beyond telling the whole miraculous story of what happened to us—and I think we need to tell of the Creator’s miracles, to say not only what didn’t happen but also what did happen here, despite all the hardship. And there’s so much hardship, so much crying, so much sadness. I’m smiling now because I’m also happy that Arbel and Yarden came back to us. But there are still others we’re waiting for, and, with Hashem’s help, they’ll come home. But I understood that I have a shlichus here. And once it felt as though the Rebbe was sending me forward, “[unclear], my child”...

1:04:20 Speaker 7 You could feel it, yes. In black and white.

1:04:23 Speaker 2 So I have... there’s a message beyond our story, too: the understanding that everything happens in exactly the way it needs to for us, and everyone has their own path in life. People often ask me at my talks, “What do you actually want from us? What can we, as a people, do?” Because my brothers-in-law are there, and my good friend is there, and there are other hostages there too. These are pure, holy souls sitting there in anguish, suffering for the Jewish people and on behalf of the Jewish people. And now is the time for us to bring them back here through our actions, through understanding that our unity as the Jewish people matters more than anything. And I don’t just mean as a people. I mean the peace in our homes, with our spouses and children, and how we treat someone we pass on the street—or even not getting angry for no reason when we’re driving. We need to understand that this is what will ultimately bring them back. They’ll come back in the merit of the people truly, truly uniting. And I think that we—I insist on this—we owe them that. We owe them that. We have to bring them back here. They need to be with us. They’re part of us, and... you know, I go around a lot and I hear people, I hear their sadness. Whether it’s on the news or in all kinds of places, people here are sad. People understand that until they come back, the Jewish people won’t be able to heal.

1:06:27 Speaker 7 The Jewish people aren’t whole.

1:06:28 Speaker 2 Not whole. And that only makes it clearer to me how much this depends on us.

1:06:34 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:06:34 Speaker 2 On us. How much we can do for them.

1:06:38 Speaker 7 What we learned in chapter 2—that the entire Jewish people are really one body.

1:06:42 Speaker 2 One body. Exactly.

1:06:42 Speaker 7 When one part is hurt or missing, it affects everyone. But it also works the other way: when the other parts work better...

1:06:49 Speaker 2 Then everything...

1:06:49 Speaker 7 We have the power. In a way, we’re with them all the time.

1:06:53 Speaker 2 Then everything works better.

1:06:54 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:06:54 Speaker 2 That’s why it’s so important to me to bring this message into every home and every talk. You know, I cry out to the Creator and say, “Enough, enough. When will we understand? When will we understand that it’s us? When will we understand that it depends on us? When will we understand that it’s in the little things?” I’m not even talking about telling someone, “Keep Shabbos,” or “Do this mitzvah,” or... It’s not my place to say that. I’m not the Creator. I’m saying there’s something in our history that we need to understand, something that keeps repeating itself, and this is it: the Jewish people need to be united, genuinely. It happens inside our homes, and it happens in the street. And really, enough with all the... you know, the way children exclude and shun one another—that’s so... You understand? And everyone prying into what everyone else is doing, who does this and who... What does it matter who’s doing what? Let’s focus on what matters. Let’s focus. There are people there who are suffering. Let’s focus on the good. Let’s focus on what matters.

1:08:07 Speaker 7 And for each person to take responsibility.

1:08:09 Speaker 2 Take responsibility for yourselves. Take a moment to look inward. Where can I be better for their sake? Where can I really do good in this world and bring light? Bring light. In the end, we’re all His children, so that’s our purpose. That’s our shlichus here: to act. And Hashem’s salvation can come in the blink of an eye. They could be here in a second, and it depends on us. Everything around us is just scenery; it isn’t what really matters. We’re the ones who matter, and they need to be here. And I... that’s the message I bring to my talks: take a moment to look at yourselves. Where can you be better? Where can you be better in your own home, better on the street? Where can you help with things like this? Where can you speak less lashon hara, chatter less? As for mitzvos, each person comes to that in their own time and at their own pace.

1:09:08 Speaker 7 Everyone knows where their...

1:09:09 Speaker 2 Everyone knows where...

1:09:10 Speaker 7 The next step is, that small step.

1:09:12 Speaker 2 Exactly.

1:09:12 Speaker 7 Like we always say, it’s not about how much; it’s...

1:09:15 Speaker 2 Exactly.

1:09:16 Speaker 7 How much it means for you.

1:09:16 Speaker 2 How much it means for you, right.

1:09:18 Speaker 7 Hakadosh Boruch Hu knows exactly what’s going on inside each person, and He... there’s confetti in Heaven and applause for the little things that are hard for us, but...

1:09:26 Speaker 2 Right, but He appreciates them so much. And through that, and through my healing process in these talks—that really is my healing process. Giving talks, telling the story, speaking about my brothers-in-law, about Shir and the children and Yarden and Arbel and my brother, and what it’s done to us as a family. And it’s important to me that people everywhere know about them. Everywhere. That the whole world know about them. That’s what heals me: talking about them and sharing this message. I don’t make public statements, and I don’t give interviews.

1:10:13 Speaker 7 Except with me.

1:10:14 Speaker 2 Right. My shlichus is... I always ask myself, “What are you doing for David, Ariel, Shir and the children?” Because, baruch Hashem, Yarden and Arbel came back. And what am I doing for the other hostages? Because, after all, you know, they’re all in this together, all Jewish souls. So I ask myself, “What are you doing for them if you’re not going?” And I say, “This. This is what I’m doing for them.” I go from heart to heart, heart to heart, so that they enter people’s hearts deeply, along with the message: how can I bring David, Ariel, Shir, the children and the other hostages back here to Eretz Yisroel? That’s my way of bringing them home. And I know they’ll come back, and I believe they’ll come back. With Hashem’s help, they’ll come back here to be with us. And that’s mine. That’s... that’s how I can bring them home. That’s the way that...

1:11:18 Speaker 7 That’s how you’re bringing them home.

1:11:19 Speaker 2 That’s how I’m bringing them home. Yes, that’s my way. That’s my fight.

1:11:24 Speaker 7 You know I admire you so much.

1:11:26 Speaker 2 Thank you. And I admire you.

1:11:27 Speaker 7 No, you’re incredible.

1:11:28 Speaker 2 That’s okay, but I admire you, and I love you very much.

1:11:32 Speaker 7 There’s a faith in you that’s... Just today I was preparing my next Tanya class, and it talks about baalei teshuvah: someone who returns to Hashem out of great love is so close to Him. Why? Because they came from... it actually says there, from “a parched land and the shadow of death.” They were so thirsty for it, and they found it, so they’re right there. Someone who grew up with it has to work harder to feel that excitement. I see you, and I remember that in one of the Tanya classes, one of the women said, “Wow, Stav, I saw the list of hostages who are supposed to be released, and your brothers-in-law aren’t on it.” And you said to her, “What list? What list? Hakadosh Boruch Hu can bring them out.” Honestly, that’s such strength. I mean, you work at this. It’s something to admire.

1:12:26 Speaker 2 I do work at it. Again, it didn’t start out this way. That’s exactly the point: things happened that brought me to this place, to return to Hashem out of love. Because in the end, He wants what’s best for me, and He wants what’s best for His children. Some people hearing me now might not agree with what I’m saying, because something enormous happened here. Something painful happened, and many people are wondering: Where is He?

1:13:01 Speaker 7 Where is that love?

1:13:02 Speaker 2 Where?

1:13:02 Speaker 7 Where is the love?

1:13:03 Speaker 2 Is this how He loves us? Is this what He did to us? There are so many things we can’t understand right now. We can’t understand them right now, and I believe that one day we’ll understand what happened here, and how much hashgachah pratis there is even within this concealment that we can’t see. Because we can’t—it’s very hard to see it from here. But I believe in Him and trust that He knows what’s best for us, even now. And you know, I’m telling you this while knowing that they’re suffering, and I suffer because they’re suffering. But it will be good. I know it will be good, and I know they’ll come back and recover, with Hashem’s help. Hakadosh Boruch Hu will bring them back. He will bring them back, and I truly believe that. That’s what keeps me going. It’s what keeps me going. And I’m learning to love Hakadosh Boruch Hu. It wasn’t like that at first. At first I was very afraid of Him, but over time I’m simply learning to love Him and to understand what He actually wants from me. I think back a little and say, “Okay, I call You Father, but I’m not making public statements or giving interviews, because I don’t like being interviewed. So where’s my contribution? I want to do something for them. I want to do something for them.” And then I understood. I didn’t understand at first, but little by little I understood that He’s speaking through me in these talks. So I said to Him, “Okay, thank You. I understand. Now I understand what You want. This is my way.”

1:14:51 Speaker 7 I don’t think you realize how many women have taken things upon themselves because of you. Think about it: you give a talk, you go home, and dozens of women... You have no idea what actually comes of it.

1:15:00 Speaker 2 I have no idea, but sometimes people write to me. I just gave a talk in Kfar Achim, and Chani, who invited me, wrote to tell me that because I started taking Tanya classes, three women now want to study Tanya.

1:15:19 Speaker 7 Wow.

1:15:21 Speaker 2 And after another talk I gave, women told me, “We’re going to study Tanya.” So I believe it does bring hearts closer and gives them that opening to go and learn and understand what it is. Maybe it really strengthens their emunah and bitachon. I always say that emunah is all well and good, because you can believe. Okay, I believe. I know there’s Someone above me. But to trust Him—to trust Him every day—even when everything seems utterly dark to me, when there are days of sadness and crying, and I’m saying, “Enough, just come back already. Come back and be with us already.” And still to trust Him that it will happen, to say to Him, “A happy ending. In the end, You’ll give us a happy ending.” After all the bitterness we’ve had here, in the end there will be a happy ending.

1:16:29 Speaker 8 Wow, Stav, thank you so much.

1:16:32 Speaker 2 You’re welcome.

1:16:33 Speaker 8 That’s it, let’s finish, because Shabbos is almost here and we have to pick up the kids from the—wow. Thank you so much. I have to end by saying again that I admire you, and you’re an incredible inspiration.

1:16:44 Speaker 2 Thank you so much.

1:16:44 Speaker 8 Incredible. You don’t know how many times I’ve spoken with different people and said, “Stav says this”—I quote you, okay? You really are such an incredible inspiration. And everyone who listens to this podcast and is strengthened... Let’s say their full names: David Diego ben Monica Silvia and Ariel ben Monica Silvia.

1:17:05 Speaker 2 Shiri bas Margit, Ariel ben Shiri, and Kfir ben Shiri.

1:17:10 Speaker 8 Come on, there’s food this Shabbos. Come, come.

1:17:13 Speaker 2 Just come. Just come back to hugs, kisses, and endless love. Just come back already, yes.

1:17:18 Speaker 8 Thank you. Thank you, Stav.