Episode 39: You and I will change the world 🌎 | With Nechami Schlesinger, wig maker and owner of a boutique salon

00:00 Speaker 1 Hi, how are you? How’s everything? We’re recording a podcast. Wait, oh, you wanted the wig. Tell your sister to come in too. Here she is—she just wants to find an elastic band. Bye. Thank you. Good Shabbos. Yes, yes, that’s the atmosphere, straight from the studio. So come with me for a conversation with the energetic, talented wigmaker Nechami Schlesinger. Where does the hair come from, and what does it go through before it becomes a wig? What do you do when you discover that every wig has been stolen from the studio? What was the strangest order Nechami ever received? And, of course, tips for your own wig and for every business owner who’s also running a home. Ready? Roll the intro, and let’s begin. How can we turn our lives into lives of shlichus filled with meaning? I’m Chani Moskowitz, a shlucha in Kharkiv, Ukraine. On this podcast, we’ll meet different women who have brought their shlichus into a range of fields, and through their stories, they’ll help each of us find and refine our own shlichus in the world. Because living the life we were created for is the best there is. Shlichus as a way of life. Starting now.

01:15 Speaker 1 Welcome to another episode of Shlichus as a Way of Life. Today we’re in the holy city of Jerusalem, at Center One, in the parking lot with—

01:23 Speaker 2 Nechami Schlesinger.

01:24 Speaker 1 What fun! With all these lovely, fragrant wigs right here beside us. Nechami, how are you?

01:30 Speaker 2 Baruch Hashem, excellent. It’s so nice to have you here.

01:33 Speaker 1 It’s so nice to be here. Again and again and again.

01:34 Speaker 2 Thank you.

01:35 Speaker 1 Tell us about yourself, for anyone who doesn’t know you yet. Who are you? What do you do?

01:40 Speaker 2 I’m Nechami Schlesinger. I live in Jerusalem, and I’m a mother of five sweet children. How did I get into wigs? The truth is, I was simply born into it. When my grandmother came to Israel after the Holocaust, she was the first to open a salon—a “hairdresser for ladies,” as she called it.

01:55 Speaker 1 “Ladies”—I love it.

01:58 Speaker 2 Back then, it was so normal to have a barbershop for men. So she wanted—she broke a certain mold: “Ladies, come to me.” And I just lived and breathed it. Even when I was still in my mother’s womb, I ate, slept, and breathed hair. Then I got married and, of course, went into the business and worked in wig production. For my first ten years as a wigmaker and manufacturer, I actually produced wigs for other wigmakers, and I was—

02:27 Speaker 1 Behind the scenes.

02:27 Speaker 2 Behind the scenes. I would sit with wigmakers and work out exactly how they wanted their wigs cut and shaped. I did that for ten years. When COVID began, before it reached Israel, I was still at our factories in China and Korea. When I returned to Israel from the factory, COVID broke out right then. It was really in Decem—when did COVID start?

02:52 Speaker 1 Right—no, a little later, around February.

02:55 Speaker 2 Right, but over there it started at the end of 2019. I came back to Israel and said, “Okay, we have an opportunity here. This illness is going to spread, and everything…” I could see where it was heading, because everyone was just waiting to hear who the first Israeli with COVID would be.

03:11 Speaker 1 Right.

03:11 Speaker 2 I decided I wanted to strike out in a new direction. I don’t know why; it was just one of those moments. I woke up one morning and said, “I want to work one-on-one with customers alongside what I already do.” I mean, I still produce wigs for wigmakers at my factories here in Israel to this day. I import hair and handle all of that. But alongside it, I wanted to create a niche where customers would work directly with me, one-on-one. It doesn’t interfere with my regular work. I still make wigs for wigmakers, each of whom has her own construction methods and the styles she likes. With my own line, I developed something a little different—a kind of dream fulfillment. When I began building my studio, the idea was that I wanted to make customers’ dreams come true. And because I have experience making so many styles of wigs—for Chassidic women, Litvish women, Americans, French women, Russian women—when someone comes to me, I know how to give her what she’s looking for.

04:18 Speaker 1 Make her dream come true.

04:18 Speaker 2 Exactly, make it come true. So I opened a studio at Center One—a cute little boutique where each woman comes in and I really sit down with her. And that’s it. It all started with COVID.

04:34 Speaker 1 And that’s what you do.

04:35 Speaker 2 That’s what I do.

04:35 Speaker 1 So have you stopped designing wigs for the general market?

04:38 Speaker 2 No, the wig-design business is still going strong, and I make branded wigs for other wigmakers.

04:43 Speaker 1 So there are lots of women wearing wigs you made who don’t even know it.

04:47 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

04:49 Speaker 1 Ladies, now you know. Wow, that’s so nice!

04:53 Speaker 2 But again, they bought a wig from that wigmaker. Even if they bought a wig from Mrs. Cohen, they’re still wearing a Cohen wig, because it was made to that wigmaker’s specifications and requests. If they chose her, they’re wearing her wig.

05:08 Speaker 1 Yes.

05:08 Speaker 2 It’s true that I sewed it, but it’s completely hers—from the type of hair to the stitching to everything else, including the service the customers receive.

05:17 Speaker 1 Of course.

05:18 Speaker 2 What I’ve done with my own studio is bring all those styles together. And by now, something of its own has emerged: Nechami Schlesinger.

05:28 Speaker 1 Right, it’s become your own thing.

05:29 Speaker 2 Yes.

05:30 Speaker 1 Tell me, I’m curious. When you say “making a dream come true,” I immediately think of a bride. Someone who—I think that’s really the hardest moment, when you have to cover your hair for the first time and say bye-bye to it. I don’t know, maybe some women feel differently. Actually, someone once told me, “I can’t wait to wear a wig, because my hair is a disaster.”

05:46 Speaker 2 Like me.

05:47 Speaker 1 So it depends. But whose wig is more exciting for you to make: a bride’s, or someone who’s already—you know, you must have customers in their seventies too.

05:57 Speaker 2 Right. Look, it’s exciting with every woman, and I’ll tell you why. When a bride comes in, she’s coming to cover her hair amid all that holiness and purity that surrounds a bride. That purity in her eyes, all the joy around her—it’s a different kind of excitement. It’s the pure excitement of a beginning. When an older woman comes in—if we’re taking the two extremes, a bride and an older woman—that’s also a kind of dream come true. Because the wigs older women wore in the past aren’t the wigs available today.

06:28 Speaker 1 They were like helmets.

06:29 Speaker 2 Exactly, they wore helmets. Today, seeing an older woman leave here with a wig that’s light, comfortable, pleasant, natural-looking, and right for her age is so satisfying.

06:38 Speaker 1 Wow, that’s true. You’re bringing her into this new world, but with a look that’s right for her—

06:45 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

06:46 Speaker 1 Tell me, Nechami, as someone who’s been through a thing or two with wigs, I’m curious: what does a wig go through before it ends up in our hands? You mentioned Korea and China. First of all, I find it fascinating. I think I’m coming with you next time.

06:59 Speaker 2 It’s quite a journey.

07:00 Speaker 1 What does that mean? Do you travel around collecting hair from people? What do you do there?

07:05 Speaker 2 Here’s how it works. First, we travel around Europe, Brazil, and Russia, depending on what source of hair I want for each woman’s wig.

07:16 Speaker 1 Oh, explain that to me. I always see “Brazilian hair” and “Russian hair.” What’s the difference?

07:21 Speaker 2 Look, first and foremost, the biggest and most important distinction isn’t always where the hair comes from. It’s knowing how to choose it properly, and matching each woman with the source of hair that’s right for her. We have Brazilian hair, European hair, and Russian hair. For blonde hair—and again, I’m speaking for myself; every wigmaker has her own preferences—we import from Russia. For dark and light-brown hair, we source it from Europe and Brazil. Brazilian hair is known for being finer. European hair is known for being thicker, though you can find both thicker and finer hair within that category too. You can also get European hair at better prices because Europe is larger. There are more places we can go and look for hair. That’s one thing. Second, Brazilian hair is darker. You can find lighter hair there too, but even the lighter hair we get there has usually been dyed by the woman selling it because she wanted to earn more for it. It’s amazing to see.

08:25 Speaker 1 Oh, I see.

08:25 Speaker 2 We get there, we visit the towns, and I can spot it immediately—I can tell when a young woman has dyed her hair because she wants to get more money for it. It’s quite a journey, and it’s very, very interesting. These young women and teenage girls live in small towns and actually grow their hair out because they want to sell it for money.

08:47 Speaker 1 A natural resource. Why not?

08:48 Speaker 2 Absolutely. And they even eat foods that nourish their hair.

08:51 Speaker 1 Oh, really.

08:51 Speaker 2 Yes. So their hair will be better quality.

08:54 Speaker 1 Wow, that’s wild.

08:55 Speaker 2 Yes.

08:56 Speaker 1 You’d need a label telling you what the woman ate...

09:01 Speaker 2 Yes.

09:01 Speaker 1 Wow.

09:01 Speaker 2 And they really do it from a good place. For them, it’s an experience. It’s fun.

09:06 Speaker 1 So if I see a wigmaker saying, “I use Brazilian hair,” that doesn’t really tell me much. I mean, it—

09:12 Speaker 2 Absolutely nothing. Nothing at all.

09:14 Speaker 1 Because I see people boasting about it. So...

09:16 Speaker 2 No, not at all. You need to know that you’re choosing the right wigmaker, one who knows how to select hair.

09:22 Speaker 1 How many—how many women’s hair goes into one wig?

09:27 Speaker 2 It depends on how thick the ponytails are, but I can tell you in grams.

09:29 Speaker 1 Yes.

09:29 Speaker 2 A wig ranges from 180 to 200 grams. It depends on the length, of course, but I’m talking about an average wig.

09:35 Speaker 1 An average one.

09:36 Speaker 2 That’s the weight of the hair. It depends on the thickness of each ponytail we cut.

09:41 Speaker 1 Say, in—

09:41 Speaker 2 And a lot of the time I combine hair from different girls. I might take a young girl’s hair and a woman’s hair because their lengths work together.

09:51 Speaker 1 Yes, but could one woman’s hair be enough for a wig?

09:54 Speaker 2 No.

09:55 Speaker 1 Usually not.

09:56 Speaker 2 Usually not, because it also goes through cleaning and alignment. I can tell you about that.

10:00 Speaker 1 Tell us, tell us. It’s interesting. And where—what does the hair go through before it ends up on my head?

10:05 Speaker 2 Okay, I’ll tell you in thirty seconds.

10:07 Speaker 1 Let’s go: a wig in thirty seconds.

10:09 Speaker 2 Yes, here’s how it works. We cut the young woman’s hair, take it, wash it about two or three times, and let it dry naturally, of course. Then the hair goes through an alignment process. We have a manual tool called a kvetzer, and we pass the hair through it. It has lots of little needles that remove the split hairs found in natural hair. Everyone has some hair that’s a little broken. We take out all the hair that isn’t good. That’s called waste. Then we make little ponytails, and each ponytail becomes a weft. We build the wig with those wefts. Then there’s the top lace or the skin—the top section—which is hand-tied at a factory in Korea. We make the entire top section of the wig at factories abroad, not in Israel at all. Why?

11:00 Speaker 1 So how did that work during COVID?

11:02 Speaker 2 It worked completely. We did everything by shipping. It was incredible. There wasn’t any—

11:06 Speaker 1 The skies were clear; you could send things.

11:10 Speaker 2 Yes.

11:10 Speaker 1 That’s wild.

11:11 Speaker 2 There were some delays because some things came by ship rather than plane when restrictions got tighter, but overall it went smoothly.

11:18 Speaker 1 So I could have hair on my head from, say, someone in Ukraine.

11:24 Speaker 2 What do you mean? Of course.

11:25 Speaker 1 And someone else—no, and someone from Italy. A mix of—

11:28 Speaker 2 No, your hair is blond, so—

11:30 Speaker 1 I don’t know, I’m just—

11:31 Speaker 2 Your hair probably comes from Russia or Ukraine. But yes, of course.

11:36 Speaker 1 That’s wild.

11:36 Speaker 2 It’s thoroughly cleaned and washed, and then it goes to the factory. We put it all together into one wig, and you have a finished, natural, gorgeous wig.

11:46 Speaker 1 Tell me, you say you make dreams come true. So most women today don’t come in and choose a ready-made wig like they’re shopping at a grocery store. They say, “I want this color, this length, this style, this kind of part.”

11:59 Speaker 2 Exactly. Today, with lace fronts and simulated lace and all those things, we can make a client a wig that looks just the way she dreams of looking. Because what—don’t most women want to look like themselves?

12:11 Speaker 1 Right.

12:11 Speaker 2 I mean, like their own hair. So yes, I make it just the way she wants. I also have samples here, so I can always show her how the look she’s dreaming of would look on her. Because sometimes we dream of something, and then we come in—

12:23 Speaker 1 Yes.

12:24 Speaker 2 And eventually see it on ourselves, and it doesn’t actually suit us. That’s why I always have samples here to show what it looks like, and then we build from there. And something I really like to tell clients is that I can always adjust it. Say she wants a particular color, but when it arrives it’s too light or too dark. I can always tone it down or add to it. It’s not something we order and that’s that.

12:50 Speaker 1 Yes.

12:51 Speaker 2 “This is the wig—oh no, what a shame.” Except for the length, of course. We do have to settle on the length more or less, but I always like to leave two or three centimeters more than the client asks for.

13:00 Speaker 1 Once you cut it, there’s no going back.

13:02 Speaker 2 It doesn’t grow. It doesn’t grow.

13:03 Speaker 1 Where do you get the courage to cut wigs? I’ll never understand.

13:06 Speaker 2 You know, when you cut someone’s hair, you can always say, “Well, it’ll grow.”

13:10 Speaker 1 Right.

13:10 Speaker 2 Worst case, it grows back. But with a wig, that’s it. So I always make absolutely sure with the client that this is really the length she wants and likes. And I always, always leave a few extra centimeters for her, even without asking. I tell her, “Don’t worry. You can go home and come back in a month, even two months, and I’ll fix it for you.” I’d always rather offer that service so she feels confident. I explain that it doesn’t grow back, and I make sure she really understands. I give her the option of going home, showing the people close to her how she looks, and making a final decision. I’m always here for her. She can come back and feel completely comfortable saying, “Nechami, make it shorter. Nechami, add to it. Nechami, anything.”

13:49 Speaker 1 I think that’s what’s important, because ultimately you leave with a wig, and even if you really love it, a day can go by and suddenly something bothers you, and suddenly...

13:58 Speaker 2 Exactly.

13:59 Speaker 1 You realize, “I don’t know, honestly, I pictured something different.” It really is something you can...

14:05 Speaker 2 And I can tell you that I understand the clients so well. I’m here every day, putting on a wig, and it all seems fine to me. But after all, it’s our face, and it’s...

14:14 Speaker 1 Right.

14:14 Speaker 2 We spend so much time thinking about it and wanting to make that dream come true. Then suddenly you come in, put on the wig, and you dreamed of one thing and didn’t get—wow. But you also have to get used to the very thing you dreamed of.

14:25 Speaker 1 Yes.

14:25 Speaker 2 So I really understand the client, and I like to give her that space.

14:30 Speaker 1 How do you match it to someone’s facial features? Has someone ever said, “I want this,” and you’ve told her, “Listen, no, that doesn’t suit you”?

14:36 Speaker 2 Yes, definitely.

14:38 Speaker 1 How do you—do you learn that over time?

14:40 Speaker 2 I explain it to the client. Yes, of course. You see so many clients. Once you’ve worked with so many different faces, you know what suits whom. Though some clients say, “You’re right, that suits me. You think this looks right, but I want it that way.” I always like to reach a point where the client has heard me out. I explain why I think a certain look suits her. Then, if she tells me she wants something different, I know she’s made that decision after thinking it through and knowing what she wants.

15:09 Speaker 1 Yes, an informed decision.

15:11 Speaker 2 Exactly.

15:12 Speaker 1 It’s really interesting that you meet women from so many different communities. There are different wigs... When someone comes to you, you don’t ask her which community she belongs to, right?

15:21 Speaker 2 No.

15:21 Speaker 1 But you can guess.

15:22 Speaker 2 Yes.

15:24 Speaker 1 There are Litvish wigs, there are Chassidic wigs. And there are those other wigs... I really don’t know much about it, but there are also the ones where you put some kind of hat over them, right?

15:34 Speaker 2 Yes.

15:34 Speaker 1 Are those different?

15:35 Speaker 2 Yes, definitely.

15:36 Speaker 1 I mean, is the wig itself different?

15:37 Speaker 2 Yes. I make it fuller around the ears because the hat pushes the hair outward. We want more volume around the ears. Yes, definitely.

15:46 Speaker 1 What’s most popular?

15:48 Speaker 2 Look, today the natural look has really, really, really caught on, and it’s so nice to be able to make that available to people. Because truly, speaking of brides, I remember when I was a bride. It wasn’t easy to start wearing a wig. Personally, it was a little easier for me because my own hair wasn’t particularly flattering.

16:06 Speaker 1 You were happy to put one on.

16:07 Speaker 2 I was, yes. But still, it was an enormous change.

16:11 Speaker 1 Right.

16:12 Speaker 2 I couldn’t walk around... You know what? Maybe if I’d been able to have my natural curls in a wig back then, I might have felt more... more like myself.

16:19 Speaker 1 Yes.

16:20 Speaker 2 But look, the day after my wedding, I woke up and I wasn’t the same Chani. Today, brides wake up in the morning and they’re exactly the same.

16:26 Speaker 1 Right. Wow.

16:27 Speaker 2 And that’s wonderful.

16:28 Speaker 1 Right. For me, it was a real change. Again, I had a wig that looked relatively similar to my hair. It was very...

16:33 Speaker 2 But I couldn’t get that same natural look you can get today.

16:35 Speaker 1 Right, it’s something else entirely.

16:37 Speaker 2 Yes.

16:38 Speaker 1 But you still have customers today who come in and don’t want lace, right?

16:41 Speaker 2 Of course. We have skin-top wigs, with very, very flat, neat work that gives a completely natural look. We also have a method where we put a very, very thin piece of fabric at the front of the skin top and sew hair into it using the same stitching method I use for lace.

16:58 Speaker 1 You call it folded something.

16:59 Speaker 2 Right, it’s folded lace. We fold the lace and sew hair into it.

17:08 Speaker 1 So it gives a natural look, but not... not completely.

17:11 Speaker 2 Exactly. We have two things. There’s lace that I fold at the front, by the forehead, and sew hair into. And there’s a regular skin top, where I sew fabric onto the skin top itself and then sew hair into it the way we do with lace. That gives you a very, very, very flat skin top. It still looks like a wig, unmistakably like a wig, just in the most natural-looking way possible. I don’t think it gets more natural than that.

17:35 Speaker 1 So some women come in...

17:35 Speaker 2 Unless we listen to this podcast again in ten years and laugh about it.

17:39 Speaker 1 Definitely.

17:40 Speaker 2 Yes.

17:40 Speaker 1 I’m sure some come in and tell you, “I want it to look as natural as possible,” and others come in and say, “No, I want people to see it’s a wig.”

17:45 Speaker 2 Right.

17:46 Speaker 1 What’s an interesting, unusual request you’ve had here?

17:50 Speaker 2 Honestly, the most bizarre request I’ve had was from a customer who came in and said, “Listen, I want a wig that’ll make me look like a New York doll.”

17:58 Speaker 1 Oh wow, wait, but there are different kinds, aren’t there?

18:00 Speaker 2 Exactly, so I told her...

18:01 Speaker 1 There’s a doll here we can look at.

18:03 Speaker 2 I mean, I told her, “Come on, show me a picture.”

18:04 Speaker 1 Oh my goodness.

18:05 Speaker 2 Yes.

18:06 Speaker 1 Wait, have you also made wigs for women who need one because they’re undergoing treatment?

18:12 Speaker 2 Actually, I have a really interesting story to tell. Two and a half years ago, I posted a picture of a beautiful blond wig on my status, and a woman contacted me. She asked how much a wig costs. I told her the price. She said, “If you make it for a very, very small head, would the price change?” I said, “Well, how small can a head be?” She said, “For a six-year-old girl.”

18:36 Speaker 1 Oh wow.

18:36 Speaker 2 My whole body just shrank. I told her I’d check what hair I had that I could use to make a wig for her daughter. I said, “Send me a picture of your daughter. Let’s see.”

18:49 Speaker 1 Oh, it was for her daughter.

18:50 Speaker 2 It was for her daughter, who was ill and had started treatment. She hadn’t lost much hair yet; she was just beginning treatment. She sent me a picture, and my heart melted. I thought, what do we do? How do we do this? Of course I very much want to give and all that, but at the end of the day, I’m not a charity. If I start with one, more people could come. There really are wonderful organizations that help with this. So I kept thinking about her. I told her, “Give me a few days, and I’ll see exactly what I can do.” The next day, I got to the studio and looked around to see if I had a skin top or anything I could use. I also wrote to my colleagues to ask if they might have any leftover hair, because this wasn’t a regular wig. Anyway, three days later, a woman messaged me on WhatsApp. She said, “Listen, I have some hair I want to add to my wig. It’s my daughter’s hair; I want to cut it. Do you do that?” I said yes, I do. At that point, I didn’t think to connect the two things. She sent me a picture of her daughter, and I thought, oh my goodness, she’s just like the other little girl. The same hair, the same size, the same sort of girl. I said, “Listen, there’s a twist here. There’s a little girl who’s ill and is starting treatment now, and I’m looking for hair for her. Would you consider letting us use it for her instead of adding it to your wig...?”

20:07 Speaker 1 Oh wow.

20:08 Speaker 2 Yes, we could make her a wig. She said, “Wow, you don’t understand. I don’t really need more hair in my wig. I just thought, I’m not going to throw this hair away, so I’d have you add it to my wig. But of course I’ll ask my daughter and make sure she agrees.” One thing led to another, and the next day her daughter came to me—we’d arranged it, of course—and I cut her hair. I took the ponytail from my studio, and that whole ponytail was actually enough for the little girl’s wig. A friend gave me a skin top for her. I took the ponytail and went to see the girl. It was at the height of COVID, and I had to put on protective gear and everything to visit her. I went in and saw a little girl who weighed twelve kilos—

20:47 Speaker 1 Oh no.

20:47 Speaker 2 With no hair, after she’d already had treatment. I measured her for the wig cap and took her measurements, and I told her, “Don’t worry. With Hashem’s help, I’m going to sew you a wig, and you’ll have a gorgeous wig. And I wish you that, with Hashem’s help, we’ll make a wig for your doll from your own hair.”

21:03 Speaker 1 Oh wow.

21:04 Speaker 2 The little girl was so excited. I explained how I was going to make it and showed her the hair the other girl had brought. So I took the hair and made her a wig really quickly. I brought it to her, and she was so excited. Those were incredible moments. I thought to myself, wow, all the work I do—

21:21 Speaker 1 Just for this.

21:22 Speaker 2 Just for this. It really was a dream come true. What I do now is, when someone wants to donate her hair, I cut it for her free of charge, as my part in that journey.

21:34 Speaker 1 Yes.

21:34 Speaker 2 There really are organizations today that help with all of this. It’s just that I came across a story I couldn’t ignore.

21:39 Speaker 1 Yes.

21:40 Speaker 2 I mean, someone contacted me three days after that mother had contacted me. It was just—

21:43 Speaker 1 Oh wow, that’s beautiful.

21:43 Speaker 2 It was incredible.

21:44 Speaker 1 Wow, wow, wow.

21:45 Speaker 2 Yes.

21:45 Speaker 1 How moving.

21:46 Speaker 2 Yes. Then there was an event for Zichron Menachem last week, and we met the little girl, and—

21:51 Speaker 1 Did she recover?

21:51 Speaker 2 She recovered, thank G-d. It was really—

21:54 Speaker 1 Now you need to make a wig for her doll.

21:56 Speaker 2 I told her—her hair has started growing back—I said, “I’m waiting.” So her mother said to me, “Wait, wait, wait. I’m putting her hair in my wig.”

22:02 Speaker 1 That’s so sweet.

22:02 Speaker 2 Yes.

22:03 Speaker 1 But really, this whole profession is a shlichus in the end, like anything else.

22:06 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

22:07 Speaker 1 Because you get up in the morning wanting to help women feel beautiful and comfortable with this mitzvah called covering their hair. It’s incredible.

22:18 Speaker 2 Right. It’s also lovely to come to the studio, meet women, smile at them in the morning. You start your morning right in the middle of your shlichus. People come in, I meet them, and even one smile can lead to another smile, and another...

22:35 Speaker 1 Completely. How did you—on your bags it says, “You and I will change the world.”

22:39 Speaker 2 Yes.

22:39 Speaker 1 How did you come up with that line?

22:40 Speaker 2 It comes from that. I believe every person can change the world. When I was thinking of a slogan—what to do, what to write—there were things like “Beauty starts at the top” and all that. And I thought, I really want... Then I said to myself, “Nechami, put everything else aside for a second. What does your heart really say? What do you believe in, and what message do you want people to take with them?” And it was really, “You and I will change the world.”

23:02 Speaker 1 Wow.

23:03 Speaker 2 Look, I’ll tell you: people wake up in the morning, and each woman has been through whatever she’s been through that morning, for better or worse, right? Then they come here, and I have the shlichus to help the rest of their day look different. We have a purpose in life beyond... Yes, I make wigs and give customers an experience, whatever we want to call it. In a way, I have a role in the world. No day is the same as the one before, because every day I move forward with my role toward the next thing. I meet so many women here, each carrying her own life journey, and we talk. And by the way, I can tell you it inspires me. I sit and listen to what people are going through, to their struggles. I just love it.

23:44 Speaker 1 And you meet all kinds of women. It’s like a place where people come and spend time together.

23:48 Speaker 2 Yes.

23:48 Speaker 1 In a way.

23:49 Speaker 2 First and foremost, this is a place where people feel at home. I always tell everyone: a lot of times, if one of my children is sick or something, I bring them here with me. People ask me, “Wow, how can you work with the kids here?” I say, “Listen, this is home. It’s home.” And I think about the child too—okay, I say it’s home, but what about the child? I mean, if it’s home to him, then he’s allowed to scream. No, I show him too that this is home and everything is okay. Mommy’s here with you, you can be with Mommy at work, and that’s it.

24:17 Speaker 1 He feels comfortable.

24:18 Speaker 2 Yes, he feels really, really comfortable. Whenever one of my children is sick, they come here, and I have a lot of children.

24:23 Speaker 1 Boruch Hashem, without the evil eye.

24:23 Speaker 2 Yes.

24:24 Speaker 1 You can’t keep going in your work, even if you came to it out of passion and everything, unless you do it with an inner motivation of “I want to add goodness to the world,” of fulfilling my purpose.

24:36 Speaker 2 Right.

24:37 Speaker 1 No, it doesn’t last. It just doesn’t last. Eventually we burn out, eventually we get fed up, eventually something happens.

24:43 Speaker 2 I can tell you that at first, when I had two children—three children, really—I could do it. I’d tell myself, “See? I can do this. I can do whatever I want.” And then, you know, at a certain point, as there were more children and the home became more of a household to run, you can tell yourself all kinds of stories, but in practice it doesn’t always happen. When I reached that point, I felt that part of it came from the fact that I hadn’t shared what I was doing, that it came from somewhere deep inside me. Because from the outside, it looked as though I was in a marathon, a marathon, a marathon, a marathon. And when you share what you’re doing, it’s easier. So I simply sat down and shared it with my children, once they were older. It was so... I’ll never forget the day I sat down and explained it to them. I said to them—it was, I’ll tell you when it was. It was during COVID, about a year into it, and I got a shipment of hair because I wasn’t traveling to get hair anymore. They just sent it to me because they knew me. When the hair arrived, I opened it at home, and the kids got excited about it. Then I said to them, “Wait, I want to share with you what I do.” I’ll never forget it. I can tell you that from that day on, it was just amazing, because now the children know what I do and it’s all something we share. They know that when a client is coming to see me, it isn’t just, “Mommy has to leave the house now because I have a client. Bye, see you.” They know: “Someone’s coming to see me now, and I’m going to make her dream come true.” It’s an experience for the children too, to know that. And I think it also affects them in their Talmud Torahs and the schools the girls attend. They have something beyond

26:12 Speaker 2 being a student. You have something to do in life. You’re not just a student.

26:16 Speaker 1 Of course.

26:17 Speaker 2 You’re not just sitting and listening to the teacher, and that’s it. And it’s just—I’m so involved in this with them now, and it’s amazing. Of course, of course, I won’t forget my husband, because afterward he’ll hear the podcast and say, “Where was I?”

26:30 Speaker 1 Where am I?

26:30 Speaker 2 In this whole story.

26:31 Speaker 1 In this whole story.

26:32 Speaker 2 Yes. Let’s say, when I post a status update, if we’re... I don’t post him along with me, at his request, but sometimes he says to me, “Listen, it looks as though you’re living your life and there’s no husband.” So yes, he’s there, and he absolutely...

26:42 Speaker 1 Now you can say it.

26:43 Speaker 2 I can say it: who would I be without him?

26:46 Speaker 1 Wow.

26:47 Speaker 2 Yes.

26:47 Speaker 1 Wow, what a gift it is for a child to grow up knowing, “I wasn’t sent into this world just for the rat race.”

26:56 Speaker 2 Right?

26:56 Speaker 1 Not just to get up in the morning and say, “I need to earn money, I need to get through the day, I need to eat something, sleep, and keep going.”

27:05 Speaker 2 Just as I tell the children: “Listen, parnassah comes from Heaven, and we have to do our part.” That’s something I really teach them.

27:13 Speaker 1 We do need to earn a living. You can’t go to the grocery store and pay with shlichus.

27:17 Speaker 2 No, I think that’s exactly it.

27:19 Speaker 1 But the question is also how you do it. How do you earn that living? It’s not that you have to do everything and say, “I’m only doing shlichus, I work for free, I’m doing it solely for the sake of Heaven.” No. But when you get up in the morning and tell yourself—it doesn’t matter, say you’re a wigmaker, just as an example. You could work in a supermarket, you could be a teacher—a teacher especially, yes, there’s no need to explain why that’s shlichus. A bus driver, a medical secretary, whatever it is. You get up in the morning and tell yourself, “Okay, Hakadosh Boruch Hu put me in this place.” No one ended up where she is for no reason. Why am I here? What specific talents brought me here? What can I give the world? What can I...

28:05 Speaker 2 tell you? Every day I get up with those questions, and when I go to sleep I think back over them and what happened that day. It’s such a wonderful feeling, because it gives everything so much meaning.

28:14 Speaker 1 It gives you the energy. It gives you the energy.

28:16 Speaker 2 When people ask me where I get my energy, that’s where it comes from.

28:19 Speaker 1 That’s where. Wow.

28:21 Speaker 2 Yes.

28:21 Speaker 1 You can feel it, though. Tell me, speaking of energy and service, how do you manage? You send off so many clients, one after another after another, but they always come back to you too: “Nechami, can you do this or that?” How do you keep up with it?

28:37 Speaker 2 Look, first of all, when we make exactly the right wig for a client, she feels it and sees it, and she goes home happy and satisfied. I think the feeling a client leaves here with—that she really can come back—also gives her the peace of mind to look at herself in the mirror later, when she gets home, and connect with it. She knows she can always come back to me. So when she leaves with that feeling, she can make a much clearer judgment than someone who leaves feeling anxious.

29:09 Speaker 1 Yes, it’s really reassuring to know your wig has a mother and father, so to speak.

29:13 Speaker 2 Exactly.

29:13 Speaker 1 But how do you actually manage it? I mean, isn’t it too much? You basically have to respond to people all day.

29:21 Speaker 2 Right. Look, boruch Hashem, WhatsApp makes it possible to be available. I can tell you that I respond to everyone within twelve hours. In other words, every twelve hours I clear all the messages, and yes, I answer each person myself. I think that’s part of the experience for a client too: she contacts me directly. And if there’s something she needs to come to the studio for, or leave with an employee, that can always be arranged. But everything, everything passes through my hands, and I do it at times that work for me. This tool, WhatsApp, is amazing in my eyes. I love that people can contact me 24/6. I simply love it. I can tell you that if a client contacted me two or three times, came in, and I took care of everything for her, then three or four months later I might contact her and ask, “How are you?” And that comes from genuinely wanting to know that she’s at ease, feels comfortable, and is happy with it.

30:07 Speaker 1 Tell me, I have to ask you about this business of making a wig for someone you’ve never met in your life.

30:14 Speaker 2 Oh, I love it.

30:15 Speaker 1 But how? How? How do you do it? Does she measure the—the—

30:20 Speaker 2 Right, I’ll tell you. Look, because I was making wigs for ten years before I started making wigs for individual clients, I know the precise details so well. I also know what to ask them. Let me tell you how the process works when I make a wig for a client who isn’t in Eretz Yisroel. I send her a video—

30:39 Speaker 1 Wait, one second. I have to pause and ask you: has it ever happened with someone here in Israel who lives very far away, or has a hard time leaving the house, or can’t get around, or—

30:45 Speaker 2 It has, since I started working with clients abroad. So clients here in Israel—even from Bnei Brak, believe it or not, which is a forty-minute drive here. A fifty-minute drive.

30:55 Speaker 1 Excuse me, why should I come in if you can do it this way?

30:57 Speaker 2 Exactly. So I tell them, “No problem. If you really want to, we can do it this way here in Israel too.”

31:01 Speaker 1 That’s wonderful.

31:02 Speaker 2 Yes. So what I do is send a video. I call it a virtual sale. And that way it works for people here in Israel too, if they feel comfortable doing it without coming in.

31:11 Speaker 1 Listen, and at worst, you can always come in afterward for an adjustment.

31:15 Speaker 2 Yes.

31:15 Speaker 1 Maybe that really is something to think about.

31:18 Speaker 2 Yes. In short, I send an instructional video showing exactly how to take the head measurements. I get the measurements. Then she sends me pictures of her old wig, or of her hair if she’s a bride, and then I send her examples.

31:30 Speaker 1 If she wants a wig like that.

31:32 Speaker 2 Yes, exactly.

31:33 Speaker 1 Or of what she—

31:33 Speaker 2 No, but I also need to see her face, and what she’s looked like until now.

31:36 Speaker 1 Oh.

31:37 Speaker 2 Then I suggest things I can tailor to her, what would suit her now. I send her lots and lots of photos and videos and things, and we really become a sort of virtual team, choosing a color and shade together. And I’m not afraid to do it, because anything can be changed. I mean, even if the wig eventually reaches her and she wants more highlights or fewer highlights, I have couriers all over the world who simply come to her door and pick up the wig. It gets to me insured, I make the change, and it goes right back to her.

32:06 Speaker 1 Isn’t it stressful to put the wig in a package?

32:07 Speaker 2 No, it’s fun. It’s fun because I know it’s going to someone—

32:10 Speaker 1 She’s sending her heart.

32:12 Speaker 2 Yes.

32:12 Speaker 1 Wow, that’s incredible.

32:14 Speaker 2 That’s it. And—yes. They’re really happy with it and love it. It’s gotten to the point where they even mail me their wigs for styling.

32:20 Speaker 1 Wow.

32:20 Speaker 2 For styling.

32:20 Speaker 1 Wow.

32:21 Speaker 2 Yes.

32:21 Speaker 1 I can tell you, as someone who spent eight years stuck without—wow, it’s so hard. Really, if I’d known that was an option. I—I styled my own wig. Yes, it was fine, but it’s hard when you’re not used to it.

32:36 Speaker 2 Look, I also send videos showing how to wash the wig, but some women, you know, don’t want to touch it. They don’t want to deal with it. So they send it to me. But all those who—

32:43 Speaker 1 Repairs and things like that.

32:44 Speaker 2 Repairs, yes.

32:45 Speaker 1 Repairs.

32:46 Speaker 2 Upgrades, too. And not just for one wig—there are upgrades. For example, a customer just wanted me to transfer her wig onto a different cap. Her cap was too tight. She wanted more highlights, and for me to add some blending and things like that—the whole lot. I sent her the exact details, and it was so easy. What do you call it, with a click?

32:59 Speaker 1 Yes. Wow.

33:00 Speaker 2 Just like that. The wig got to me, and of course I did it quickly. Within a week it was sent back to her, just right and perfect.

33:07 Speaker 1 What’s the most requested alteration?

33:09 Speaker 2 Transferring the wig to a different cap.

33:10 Speaker 1 What does that mean, exactly?

33:11 Speaker 2 That the cap is too small, too big, or too tight.

33:14 Speaker 1 You just peel the whole wig off the cap and glue it onto another one.

33:17 Speaker 2 Yes, glue it on. I wish it were glue. Look, I’ll tell you why: comfort comes before everything else.

33:24 Speaker 1 Right, because in the end...

33:25 Speaker 2 I tell the customer, “Wait a second. Let’s first make sure the cap sits comfortably on your head,” and then we start making the wig.

33:30 Speaker 1 Yes, if you get home and pull the wig straight off your head... Well, that could also be because of the heat outside. But has anyone ever asked for highlights in unusual colors?

33:38 Speaker 2 Someone asked me for eggplant-colored ones.

33:40 Speaker 1 Eggplant.

33:41 Speaker 2 Pepper-colored ones.

33:42 Speaker 1 What kind of pepper? There are lots of kinds.

33:44 Speaker 2 That’s what I said to her.

33:45 Speaker 1 Wow, it’s—you know, it’s funny. You talk about making dreams come true, but some women really do have all kinds of dreams.

33:50 Speaker 2 Right. Right.

33:51 Speaker 1 Tell me, you juggle home and work, and you’re so happy. You give the impression that everything comes easily to you. How—what’s behind all this good energy? I also know that a lot of nights you don’t sleep. You make a wig in twenty-four hours, a wig in forty-eight hours.

34:08 Speaker 2 Look, some people think, “Wow, how nice—some people are born seeing the good in everything and just enjoying life. How nice, they’re doing shlichus and everything’s good.” And I can tell you I wasn’t born like that. I was born happy, thank G-d, but I have been through a journey in life. Maybe, with Hashem’s help, we’ll do a separate podcast about that someday, because it’s a subject in its own right. And thank G-d, I truly found joy and grew from it. The message I always want to share with people who see me and keep asking me—always, always, always—when they come to me and ask, “Where does your energy come from? Where do you get the strength?” It’s such a long answer that I just smile and move on. But what I really always want to tell people is this: when I see someone succeeding in life, I think, “Wow, I wonder what they went through that brought them to this joy.”

34:58 Speaker 1 Wow.

34:59 Speaker 2 But I so want to tell people who haven’t been through difficult things in life that you don’t need to go through something to be happy. Come on, we have enough examples of other people who have been through things. We can look at them and say, “Wow, let’s grow from what that person went through, instead of having to go through it ourselves.”

35:16 Speaker 1 Let’s not wait for a crisis in order to grow.

35:19 Speaker 2 And if we do that, then if, G-d forbid, we ever face some kind of crisis, we’ll be able to get through it, because we’ll already be strong, not weak.

35:28 Speaker 1 Yes.

35:29 Speaker 2 I so want to give people that answer, but it’s always more complicated than that. I really believe in growing out of a crisis, if you choose to. Take Chani Weinroth, for example. I remember—I think you were the first to have her on, or maybe she was the first person I heard talk about this—I remember she said to post a picture of your coffee in the morning. Do you remember that?

35:52 Speaker 1 Yes, yes.

35:52 Speaker 2 To post a picture of your coffee in the morning and be thankful for the coffee. I remember that at the time I looked at it and thought, “What? Why? How is that going to help?” She said she wanted people to post a picture for her recovery. And then I understood. I can tell you that I really came to understand the significance of every tiny thing we do in life. How much it can lift us up. Not just how much it can—every single thing lifts us up.

36:15 Speaker 1 Seeing things differently.

36:17 Speaker 2 The simplest thing, the very simplest. People see everything as rosy, everything as wonderful. And yes, by the way, everything is rosy and wonderful. You should know, my life is wonderful. Chani, my life is wonderful. You know, I’m going home now, and with Hashem’s help I’m going to clean the house. And I’m happy about it. I mean, people—and come on, you of all people know. You know people sitting at home, needing to clean, needing to do things, and it’s all such a fuss. I don’t have that. I don’t. Today I’m going to make salads with all my energy and enjoy it, and I’ll include the kids. My kids are doing it with me. My kids are my life.

36:48 Speaker 1 Wow.

36:48 Speaker 2 Yes, and I think it’s amazing. I always say, really, look at the troubles other people have faced. Not that I want you to—I mean...

36:55 Speaker 1 May no one have troubles.

36:57 Speaker 2 No one. But there are enough things you can look at and say, “Wow, let’s grow from that pain instead of from our own.” And if it did happen and you’ve experienced pain, then grow from it. That’s my message to everyone.

37:10 Speaker 1 So let’s look at life differently. Starting right now, no?

37:15 Speaker 2 Yes.

37:16 Speaker 1 Here, right now—

37:17 Speaker 2 I’m saying, anyone can have difficulties. There can be financial difficulties, there can be all kinds of difficulties.

37:19 Speaker 1 Everyone has difficulties.

37:20 Speaker 2 There are financial difficulties and health difficulties.

37:23 Speaker 1 Challenges.

37:24 Speaker 2 Challenges and everything. And I say, wow, you just... With Hashem’s help, when I do a podcast about what I went through, I think people who haven’t experienced those things will have a lot to learn from it. Oh, wait, is that my dad? Is that him?

37:41 Speaker 1 Wow.

37:41 Speaker 2 He’s an inspiration.

37:42 Speaker 1 Wait, is that even him?

37:44 Speaker 2 Yes, he’s my life. Hello! Wait, let’s rewind—it sounds strange. Oh my goodness, this is a podcast. Do you want to say a few words? Wait.

37:53 Speaker 3 Like this? Like this?

37:54 Speaker 2 Oh, I accidentally pressed something here—no, no, do it normally. Look how fun this is. Wait, it’s stuck. There, try talking for a second.

38:02 Speaker 3 Testing, testing.

38:03 Speaker 2 Wait, wait, give me your hand like this, clap, three, four. Okay, listen, we’re right in the middle—it’s recording. Listen, my dad just walked in right in the middle.

38:13 Speaker 3 Yes, I happened to come in because my daughter sent me to bring a few things for the... You asked me to bring some things, so here I am. But honestly, your devotion to your customers is getting out of hand. You pull me out of the middle of work: “Bring it now, urgently, urgently!” What’s so urgent? A customer.

38:31 Speaker 2 You’re the best, Dad.

38:31 Speaker 3 All right, a customer. I have a lot of respect for all your customers. They’re part of who you are, part of your character, and part of your friendships. That’s lovely, but what about me? Don’t I deserve something?

38:43 Speaker 2 Oh, you deserve a huge hug.

38:46 Speaker 3 A warm one. You’re wonderful. I wish you only good things and lots and lots of success.

38:49 Speaker 2 Amen. Amen, amen. Thank you.

38:54 Speaker 3 That was spontaneous.

38:55 Speaker 2 Speaking of what we were saying about growing from pain, you have no idea what this man...

39:02 Speaker 3 Oh.

39:02 Speaker 2 And that “uh” just shows how right I am.

39:07 Speaker 1 Okay, let’s keep going. Don’t tell me there’s drilling here.

39:10 Speaker 2 No, that’s his motorcycle.

39:12 Speaker 1 Oh, that scared me. Tell me, you said earlier that you live in Jerusalem, but you didn’t explain exactly where. Why—wait, why am I asking? There was...

39:22 Speaker 2 I brought up a scenario.

39:23 Speaker 1 Right, yes, where you put on... what’s it called, a hijab?

39:26 Speaker 2 Yes, the headscarf. So I just did it as though—

39:29 Speaker 1 Wait, wait, where? Where exactly do you live?

39:31 Speaker 2 I live in Jerusalem, in Pisgat Ze’ev. A few years ago they opened Highway 20, which connects Begin to Beit Hanina, and then you end up in Pisgat Ze’ev and Neve Yaakov. During tense periods, when there are alerts and things like that, people really do avoid driving there. And I actually enjoy those periods, because—

39:52 Speaker 1 The road is empty.

39:52 Speaker 2 The road is empty.

39:54 Speaker 1 That’s something. How much time does it save, roughly?

39:56 Speaker 2 It shortens the trip significantly, by about thirty-five or forty minutes.

39:59 Speaker 1 Wow, that much?

40:00 Speaker 2 Yes, so I don’t even think twice. I just drive that way. And I know some people will say I’m crazy. But the truth is, I grew up on the edge of Sheikh Jarrah, so I’m less afraid. Though there’s always some fear, you know, but it’s okay. I feel completely comfortable driving there. Except for what happened one time, which I think is what you’re talking about—

40:19 Speaker 1 Probably.

40:20 Speaker 2 Oh, yes. Once I was driving there, and a few days earlier I’d jokingly made a video saying, “Wow, look at this, I’m driving through Beit Hanina, right through their streets.” I happened to be wearing a headscarf instead of—usually I wear a sheitel, but for some reason I was wearing a headscarf that day. So I said, “This is so funny,” and I pulled the ends of the scarf forward and tied them the way Arab women do, and posted a funny video. I was like, “Take note: if you’re in an Arab neighborhood, you can do this.” Then my husband responded with a funny video of himself doing it too. It was funny on my status; everyone laughed and told me what a great idea it was. Well, a few days later, an Arab journalist was killed, um—

41:02 Speaker 1 Oh.

41:03 Speaker 2 She lived in Beit Hanina, and I happened to enter the neighborhood just as they announced her funeral, or maybe her funeral was taking place that day. I drove in, not knowing anything. You know, there was no traffic, everything was open. As I passed right below the street where her house was—it’s all these little alleys there—I saw lots of Palestinian flags, and in the distance I could see shots being fired into the air. I was incredibly stressed. People were shouting “Allahu akbar,” and I thought, “How am I going to get out of here now?”

41:33 Speaker 1 How do you escape?

41:33 Speaker 2 There was nowhere to go. I couldn’t go back, I couldn’t go forward, and I could see lots and lots of teenagers with Palestinian flags coming toward my windshield, shouting. I thought, “What am I going to do?” At that moment I remembered the video I’d made. I pulled out my—took the scarf and tied it in front. You should have seen them coming up to my car and banging on it. Of course, they banged on all the cars and then just moved on.

42:02 Speaker 1 Oh my goodness.

42:03 Speaker 2 Yes, and in the middle of all that stress, I turned on my camera and said, “Everyone, look what’s happening here. There are Arabs all around me, and look, I look like an Arab woman now. I tied it this way, and look, baruch Hashem.” It started as a joke, but in the end it helped me.

42:17 Speaker 1 Wow, wow.

42:17 Speaker 2 Of course I called the police and told them we were there and stuck. Security forces did arrive. Never mind that the security forces were knocked to the ground too. It was complete chaos there. Somehow, when the crowd started dealing with other people, I hit the gas and drove on to my neighborhood.

42:30 Speaker 1 Oh my goodness.

42:31 Speaker 2 And I still drive that way. I’m answering your next question before you ask it.

42:34 Speaker 1 With a headscarf and the—and the gloves.

42:36 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, and the gloves. There’s always a headscarf.

42:38 Speaker 1 Wow. No, that really was an unusual day, but—

42:40 Speaker 2 It was an unusual day, yes. But anyway—

42:42 Speaker 1 You said—you said you live near Nachalas or something, that you—

42:45 Speaker 2 No, not at all. It’s just that it happened right after I posted that video—only a few days later. In the first video I’d said, “If anyone ever comes at you, just know you can turn your headscarf this way.” And a few days later, it simply—

42:58 Speaker 1 Wow. You really tempted fate.

42:59 Speaker 2 See how much power words have.

43:01 Speaker 1 They really do. In this direction and in that direction.

43:03 Speaker 2 Yes, in this direction and in that direction, absolutely.

43:05 Speaker 1 That’s something. Wow. Okay, Nachmi, headscarves are all well and good, but give us some tips about sheitels. You know, there are women who are experts in headscarves and all the different ways to tie them, but you’re the sheitel master. So give some tips to women like me, for example, who always say, “I have two left hands.” And you know, when lace fronts came out, I didn’t—well, I had just bought a sheitel, and I deliberately bought one without lace because I was afraid it would get ruined. Everyone said lace gets damaged and that you can’t wash the sheitel yourself.

43:36 Speaker 2 But where did the idea that lace is delicate come from? When they first started making lace fronts, they used very thin fabrics. They didn’t yet know which fabric would be right, so they tried something, and it worked. What I did was look for a special, good fabric. A few colleagues and I worked on it together, of course, and we found Swiss lace. Swiss lace is the best fabric for sewing the hair onto, and it’s genuinely good quality. There’s no need to be afraid of it at all. Of course, I give very simple instructions for using it, and you wear the sheitel completely normally. There’s nothing to fear. Once every six or seven months, I recommend coming in to fill it in a little—like taking a car in for its regular service, topping up the water and oil. A sheitel needs that too. It’s not something to be afraid of. In the past, when it first came out three or four years ago, the customer felt guilty about every hair that fell out. Today I say—

44:33 Speaker 4 It’s part of it.

44:34 Speaker 2 It’s part of it, and it’s okay if it thins a little at the front. We fill it in at the next styling. The customer brings it in and we simply fill it in.

44:41 Speaker 4 Yes, but what tips do you have for making a sheitel last longer?

44:45 Speaker 2 Honestly...

44:46 Speaker 4 Does going out in the sun ruin it? Is that true?

44:49 Speaker 2 It depends on the hair—its quality and grade. I’m speaking only from my own experience. And by the way, to all our dear listeners: all the tips and information I’m giving are about things I do and make myself. I don’t want to—

45:00 Speaker 4 Of course.

45:00 Speaker 2 Take responsibility for other products. What tips would I give? Honestly...

45:07 Speaker 4 For taking care of a sheitel. When someone buys a sheitel, it isn’t cheap. How do you look after it? What can you do to help it last for many good years?

45:16 Speaker 2 Just treat it naturally. When I say natural hair, I mean natural hair. If you asked me where I keep my sheitel, you wouldn’t want to know.

45:25 Speaker 4 Let me guess. You probably toss it aside, like I do.

45:31 Speaker 2 When I’m driving a long distance with the kids in the car and I need the sheitel off my head, I just take it off and put it in the compartment between the two front seats.

45:42 Speaker 4 Oh wow.

45:43 Speaker 2 And that’s the tip I have for you: your sheitel is natural and it’s good quality. Stop being afraid to touch it. A sheitel is a natural thing. Feel free to move it in any direction. At home, I don’t have a mannequin head; I don’t have a sheitel stand. Of course, I sell stands here—

45:59 Speaker 4 You don’t have the head for it.

46:00 Speaker 2 I don’t have the head for it. No, of course I also sell stands and suitcases and everything here. Believe me, I recommend to every bride and every woman who leaves here that she store her sheitel on top of the folded shirts in her closet, provided the hair—

46:17 Speaker 4 Provided the shirts are folded.

46:18 Speaker 2 And folded and arranged. But you can simply lay the wig down there neatly, and that’s it. The wig stays in good condition. If you’re traveling up north, going somewhere, flying, I recommend taking a shoebox, putting it inside—a plain cardboard shoebox—closing it, and that’s it. You don’t need anything more. That’s my biggest tip: just treat your wig as naturally as possible.

46:42 Speaker 4 Wow.

46:42 Speaker 2 And of course, I have plenty of videos on getting tangles out if it gets tangled, and all of that.

46:46 Speaker 4 Tell me, is it really recommended to brush it every day when you take the wig off? To brush the back so it doesn’t, so it doesn’t—

46:51 Speaker 2 If it hasn’t gotten tangled, there’s no reason to.

46:54 Speaker 4 So not just brushing and brushing and brushing for no reason.

46:56 Speaker 2 Exactly.

46:57 Speaker 4 Too much brushing damages it. Hair can come out.

47:00 Speaker 2 Look, not everyone has the skill to know how to handle and brush a wig, and that’s okay. You shouldn’t feel strange if you don’t know how and you’re afraid to try. There are people who take care of wigs—even gel wigs, with natural drying and everything. You can always come to me, and I’ll wash it and pamper it for you, and that’s okay. There are plenty of things I could do for myself, but I leave them to a beautician.

47:21 Speaker 4 Yes.

47:22 Speaker 2 I could do them myself, but I always leave the—

47:24 Speaker 4 You prefer to.

47:25 Speaker 2 Exactly.

47:26 Speaker 4 Speaking of natural, natural, natural—wait a second. We wash our own hair every day. Well, many of us do. Some people wash it every other day, but you shouldn’t wash a wig every day.

47:36 Speaker 2 Right. So for anyone washing a wig at home, I recommend not using your regular shampoo and conditioner. Use salt-free shampoo and conditioner. They’re better for hair that’s been separated from its roots. The regular shampoo and conditioner we use at home are for hair we wash day after day. We washed it today, we’ll wash it tomorrow. The hair absorbs the vitamins and minerals in the amount it needs. Here we need something a little stronger, because we’re not washing the wig every day.

48:06 Speaker 4 Is there a particular brand you recommend?

48:08 Speaker 2 No.

48:08 Speaker 4 This isn’t an ad.

48:09 Speaker 2 Right. I don’t have—

48:10 Speaker 4 No, because, you know, I’ll have to go to the supermarket and turn all the bottles around...

48:14 Speaker 2 No, I use products that really are more concentrated and higher quality.

48:17 Speaker 4 Yes.

48:17 Speaker 2 Come on, what I do here isn’t a wash at home.

48:19 Speaker 4 Yes.

48:19 Speaker 2 Definitely. If a customer wants to wash her wig at home, excellent, wonderful. It won’t be the same wash it gets here, which makes sense. If a customer brings me a wig she hasn’t washed for a month, she needs—I need to use much more concentrated products on it.

48:32 Speaker 4 So how often do you recommend washing a wig if I wash it myself?

48:36 Speaker 2 I recommend once every two weeks.

48:37 Speaker 4 And if I bring it to a wig stylist?

48:39 Speaker 2 Once a month.

48:41 Speaker 4 Which obviously also depends on how often you wear it, I assume.

48:44 Speaker 2 Yes.

48:44 Speaker 4 Wear it—sorry, wear it. Okay. Tell me, with your work—do you come to the studio at set hours, or do you do some things at home? How do you juggle it all? How many children do you have—did we talk about that?

48:57 Speaker 2 Five children, two girls and three boys. Amen, may more girls come.

49:02 Speaker 4 With Hashem’s help. On the next podcast.

49:03 Speaker 2 Yes. Anyway, how do I combine it all? Of course I have morning hours, and there are also days when everyone at home knows I’ll be at the studio in the evening. That’s from 7:30 p.m., after the children have had dinner and are washed and clean. They’re not always asleep yet. I won’t lie: there are days when I leave the house and the children look disappointed that Mommy is going, and it does tug at my heart a little. But when it does, I talk to them about it. I tell them, “I really understand, and I’d like to stay with you right now too. But you know there are days when I work in the evening—Sundays and Tuesdays.” By the way, there are exceptions. Sometimes I close my Sunday schedule and end up not working that evening, and move those hours to Thursday evening instead. I tell the children about that. It’s very, very important to me to keep them in the loop. I say, “Remember, I didn’t go on Sunday, so I was with you then, and today I do need to go.” And by talking to them about it, I also let go of my—

50:06 Speaker 4 Your own feelings, yes.

50:06 Speaker 2 My sense of missing out, because I understand that they want me there, and I want to be there just as much.

50:11 Speaker 4 Yes.

50:12 Speaker 2 And it feels so good. Then I arrive at the studio feeling at peace with myself, instead of thinking, “Oh no, I’ve left little children at home.” No. My husband is with them, everything’s fine, and they’re having fun. Let’s just say they have a great time laughing with him.

50:24 Speaker 4 Yes. You know, a lot of times children make you feel like, “Oh, Mommy, don’t go!” Then as soon as you close the door, the party starts.

50:29 Speaker 2 Exactly. But I don’t just comfort myself with the thought that I’ll close the door and they’ll have fun. I talk to them about it.

50:36 Speaker 4 Yes.

50:36 Speaker 2 That’s very, very important to me.

50:37 Speaker 4 I imagine you also have a lot of school vacations and things like that.

50:40 Speaker 2 They know about those too, and they really enjoy them, by the way. During a lot of vacations, they come here with me quite a bit, and—

50:46 Speaker 4 The children are usually off for Pesach.

50:48 Speaker 2 Right, and next week—

50:49 Speaker 4 That’s one of those times.

50:50 Speaker 2 Next week summer vacation starts.

50:52 Speaker 4 Why did you have to bring that up now? What do you mean, next week? It’s in two days.

50:56 Speaker 2 Yes, two days.

50:57 Speaker 4 Oh wow. So do they come with you every day, or not?

50:59 Speaker 2 They don’t come with me every day.

51:00 Speaker 4 Are there day camps at the beginning?

51:00 Speaker 2 But I give them—there are day camps, but afterward, when there’s—of course I take time off too, and they know there will be vacation and when it will be. I really like to set expectations with them directly.

51:11 Speaker 4 A must.

51:11 Speaker 2 Yes.

51:12 Speaker 4 So do you slow down in the summer?

51:14 Speaker 2 No, the opposite. It’s action-packed.

51:16 Speaker 4 No, I mean in terms of—

51:16 Speaker 2 I tell customers, “I’m coming with the children.”

51:18 Speaker 4 Ah, you need to set up a day-camp corner here.

51:20 Speaker 2 There are activities at the center, wonderful activities here. My children actually have the schedule hanging in their room, and every day they know what’s happening.

51:27 Speaker 4 So they have a Taiwan[?] day camp here.

51:28 Speaker 2 And customers with children really enjoy it, because they come with their children. My oldest daughter comes here too.

51:34 Speaker 4 A free attraction.

51:35 Speaker 2 Yes, and every day there are new friends.

51:38 Speaker 4 Right, I came to you twice with the children.

51:40 Speaker 2 Right, so my children meet new children every day—new friends—

51:44 Speaker 4 So they show them: “Come see the activity,” and...

51:45 Speaker 2 Exactly, they show them the activity. Every day feels like a new day. They’re meeting children who haven’t seen the activity before.

51:51 Speaker 4 That’s so cool.

51:52 Speaker 2 Yes, it’s really fun. They also know that when Mommy is with a customer, they shouldn’t interrupt, because the customer needs her space. I mean, it’s not that there’s a day camp going on in here. The customer sits here with her own space, and I’m with her.

52:03 Speaker 4 Yes, that’s important.

52:05 Speaker 2 It’s really important.

52:06 Speaker 4 You don’t want to feel like you’ve walked into a day camp.

52:07 Speaker 2 Yes. A lot of times I’ll post on my status, “Oh, the children are with me,” and so on. So I make it clear: they’re with me, but you absolutely have your space here.

52:14 Speaker 4 Yes. Okay, Nechami, we’re coming toward the end. Now I want you to pull out your best story—what’s the most interesting thing that’s happened to you here? The most interesting of all.

52:24 Speaker 2 The most interesting thing was one Sunday morning—we open in the afternoon—when my employee called me. She said, “Nechami, how are you?” I said, “Boruch Hashem. You’re there?” She said yes. Then she asked, “Did you take all the wigs home to wash?” I said, “What?” She said, “There isn’t a single wig here.”

52:45 Speaker 4 Oh my goodness.

52:46 Speaker 2 I said, “Are you kidding me?” She said, “There isn’t a single wig here.” I told her, “Go into the back room and look.” She said, “There’s nothing here.” Then she said, “Wait, there’s a huge hole in the wall. Nechami, there’s been a break-in.”

52:55 Speaker 4 Wait, how? From where?

52:57 Speaker 2 At that moment I just went silent. I was like, “Oh my goodness, oh my goodness, oh my goodness—what?” I just couldn’t believe it. And where was this hole?

53:03 Speaker 4 What’s on the other side of that wall, exactly?

53:05 Speaker 2 The other side of that wall is actually a storage room for the management here, nothing to do with me. Anyway, I immediately opened the camera feed. For a moment I thought maybe she was playing a joke on me, but no—why would anyone joke about something like that? I opened the cameras and saw that everything was empty. Right then I told her, “Stay exactly where you are. I’m calling my father, and we’ll see what to do.” I called him right away. I said, “Dad, listen, I think someone broke into our studio. There isn’t a single wig here. Come over.” He said, “Call the police at the same time. I’ll call the insurance company. Let’s get started and see what we can do.” The two of us, together.

53:38 Speaker 4 Wait, did you have footage?

53:39 Speaker 2 Nothing.

53:39 Speaker 4 From security cameras.

53:40 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Later we checked the security footage and everything. I got to the studio, and I remember that very morning I had promised my son a fun day out, and he was with me for it.

53:49 Speaker 4 “Mom, this is supposed to be our fun day.”

53:51 Speaker 2 Yes. We had just come back from a chocolate workshop in Talpiot.

53:54 Speaker 4 Oh, wow.

53:54 Speaker 2 The two of us together. I told him, “Listen, there’s been a change of plans. Instead of going home now to make lunch, we’re going to the studio.” We got here, and my heart sank. I arrived before my father and before the police. I walked in, saw that everything was empty, and I said—Hashem... The first thing I did was turn to Hashem and say thank you. I remember my son looking at me and saying, “Mom, what?” I told him, “I don’t know. I don’t know what’s going on here.”

54:17 Speaker 4 Because it was so...

54:17 Speaker 2 It’s His. It belongs to Him. I told my son, “It’s in Hashem’s hands.” Then a police car arrived. The officers came in, investigated the place, asked when it happened and what had happened. Meanwhile, I was going through the camera footage, and we discovered it had happened on Shabbos. On Shabbos afternoon, at two thirty, they broke in and stole all the wigs.

54:35 Speaker 4 Oh, wow.

54:36 Speaker 2 And yes, it was just... I remember I couldn’t grasp it. I felt as though the ground had opened beneath me, I was sinking into it, and I weighed five hundred kilos.

54:45 Speaker 4 Oh my goodness. Wait, tell me: were the wigs that were stolen wigs you had for sale, or were there customers’ wigs there that they’d sent in for styling and were waiting to get back?

54:56 Speaker 2 Luckily, it was just after Thursday, when customers pick up their wigs for Shabbos. There were twelve customers’ wigs left here. The rest—all the rest—were wigs for orders and wigs I had on display.

55:07 Speaker 4 So you had to call a customer and tell her—

55:09 Speaker 2 Twelve customers.

55:10 Speaker 4 “Listen—”

55:10 Speaker 2 Two of them were my sister’s.

55:13 Speaker 4 “You don’t have a wig.”

55:14 Speaker 2 “You don’t have a wig.”

55:14 Speaker 4 “My dear.”

55:15 Speaker 2 Yes.

55:16 Speaker 4 Oh my goodness. What does she do the next morning?

55:19 Speaker 2 Well, the customers who hadn’t picked up their wigs for Shabbos did have another wig.

55:24 Speaker 4 Right.

55:24 Speaker 2 So the burglars’ timing was pretty precise. I mean—

55:27 Speaker 4 So most of the people who’d sent in a wig for Shabbos—

55:29 Speaker 2 Most of those who’d sent theirs in... I didn’t have to start from scratch for them right then. I didn’t have a single strand of hair.

55:32 Speaker 4 Oh my goodness.

55:33 Speaker 2 There were also customers I needed to return a wig to, or deliver a wig to. Some of the work was just styling, not new wigs or orders.

55:40 Speaker 4 Is there a happy ending we can actually see?

55:42 Speaker 2 In general, yes. Baruch Hashem, we have insurance. We hired a lawyer, and with Hashem’s help, the insurance company will pay.

55:49 Speaker 4 Oh, it’s still in process?

55:50 Speaker 2 It’s still in process.

55:50 Speaker 4 When did this happen—how long ago?

55:51 Speaker 2 Exactly a year and a half ago.

55:53 Speaker 4 Wow, that’s a long time already.

55:54 Speaker 2 Yes, a very long time.

55:55 Speaker 4 These things take time.

55:56 Speaker 2 They take time. There’s a lot of paperwork, a lot to go through to prove the merchandise was really there, even though there’s video footage. But you know, that’s the process with insurance.

56:08 Speaker 4 Wow.

56:08 Speaker 2 Let’s just say you pay the insurance company a nice amount every month, but when the insurance company has to pay you, it’s a little different.

56:12 Speaker 4 It was such a blow.

56:14 Speaker 2 Yes, and I simply started everything over. I remember that we’d scheduled an event here for the next day with Naama Uwaisi and her cakes. Naama messaged me, “So should we cancel?” I told her, “Absolutely not.”

56:27 Speaker 4 On the contrary, let’s carry on with—

56:29 Speaker 2 Exactly. We need to get back up from this.

56:31 Speaker 4 Wow.

56:31 Speaker 2 And I want to say, and to make a point of saying here, that the strength to do that came entirely from the place where I’d grown, from the pain I’d grown through in the past. I’d learned how to take hold of the pain right away. Here I had this enormous pain: there had been a break-in, all the wigs were gone—wigs I’d worked on, sewn and built, and put so much into. They weren’t here. They weren’t here, and I had no idea if they would ever come back to me. And I remember—and it’s really important to me to say this—that the strength came entirely from there. Then we went to the police, opened a case, and they began an investigation. Baruch Hashem, after a week they caught the two burglars. They arrested them, and we had to come in to identify them, to see whether maybe one of them was a customer’s husband or something. Baruch Hashem, it really wasn’t anyone we knew. And that’s it. They’re in custody, but the merchandise hasn’t been found. They won’t say anything, not a word, and there’s nothing here registered in their names—

57:30 Speaker 4 I’m trying to imagine what two burglars would do with wigs.

57:33 Speaker 2 That’s what I’m saying. I wanted to speak to them face-to-face and ask, “What have you done to me?”

57:36 Speaker 4 Yes.

57:36 Speaker 2 You know, those wigs still need my finishing touch. Wait!

57:40 Speaker 4 At least you could have said that to them.

57:41 Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. And that wasn’t all. They took skins, tops, hair, wefts—everything.

57:46 Speaker 4 Where could it all be today?

57:48 Speaker 2 I have no idea. They say it’s not in the country. Even the police questioned them, but they won’t say a word. From what I understand, though, it’s not in the country.

57:55 Speaker 4 Maybe somewhere in Gaza?

57:56 Speaker 2 It’s not clear. It’s not clear. So I simply decided I was getting up and starting over. I brought in more hair and just began again, like a little girl learning to walk all over again.

58:09 Speaker 4 Wow.

58:09 Speaker 2 Like breathing for the first time. That was the first line of my first status update after the break-in: that I was starting to breathe all over again. And Baruch Hashem, things began to build, and today we’re here, and you can see the collection.

58:22 Speaker 4 You know, the way you dealt with something like this—first of all, that’s how we need to deal with it, because ultimately Hakadosh Boruch Hu gives us tests. But I’d say something more: our children are watching us all the time, watching how we react—

58:34 Speaker 2 Yes, that’s what I wanted to tell you. While we were standing here and I was taking it all in, the police officer said to me, “Take the child out of here.”

58:40 Speaker 4 Oh, your son was with you, right?

58:42 Speaker 2 Yes, my son was here. So he told me, “Take your son out of here. He doesn’t need to be here right now.” I’d been talking and saying, “Oh my goodness,” because I couldn’t believe people had been in here. You know, I was really shaken. So I said, “There’s a cosmetician next door.” I took him over there, sat down with him, and explained what had happened. I told him, “Look, this is what happened, and it’s a test.” And at some point, in a way, I was talking to myself, you know?

59:02 Speaker 4 Yes.

59:02 Speaker 2 He just happened to be there. I was really talking to myself, and I wanted it to sink in for me. Then, two days later, my husband ran into the rabbi. The rabbi asked him, “Did something happen to your family? Were some wigs stolen from you?” My husband said yes. The rabbi said, “Wow, I can’t believe it. I saw your son sitting at recess, with all the children captivated by him. He was such a calm, wonderful child, speaking with emunah and explaining how there had been a break-in and the wigs were taken, and that they aren’t ours—they belong to Hakadosh Boruch Hu.”

59:31 Speaker 4 Wow, that’s so moving.

59:32 Speaker 2 I remember hearing what the rabbi had said and thinking, that’s it. That’s the purpose of life.

59:37 Speaker 4 Wow, absolutely.

59:39 Speaker 2 As far as I’m concerned, that’s how the whole break-in story ends. That’s the thing. That’s it.

59:45 Speaker 4 A lesson for life—and what the children took from it.

59:46 Speaker 2 Yes.

59:47 Speaker 4 Wow, moving. We were talking about different communities, so tell us where you came from and where you’re headed.

59:52 Speaker 2 I come from the Litvish community. My great-grandfather was the head of the Ponevezh Yeshiva, Rabbi Dovid Povarsky.

59:57 Speaker 4 Wow.

59:57 Speaker 2 His wife was Rebbetzin Chaya Feigel. I grew up in a very Litvish home, just as you’re hearing. My husband comes from a home with more of a Yerushalmi Chassidic background. So the combination of that Chassidic background, the strict Litvish side, and Chassidic warmth—

1:00:17 Speaker 4 A real mix.

1:00:18 Speaker 2 Actually makes for a really interesting mix.

1:00:20 Speaker 4 Yes.

1:00:21 Speaker 2 Really.

1:00:21 Speaker 4 You’ve got a bit of everything.

1:00:23 Speaker 2 It really is a very interesting mix.

1:00:25 Speaker 4 How interesting.

1:00:25 Speaker 2 Sometimes I like to say, “That’s too Chassidic,” or “That’s too Litvish,” and so—

1:00:29 Speaker 4 Right, you need to have both.

1:00:30 Speaker 2 Yes.

1:00:30 Speaker 4 I think you’re [unclear]—

1:00:31 Speaker 2 Let’s just say I’m the strongly Litvish face of the household.

1:00:34 Speaker 4 Yes, you’ve got the whole range.

1:00:35 Speaker 2 Everything.

1:00:37 Speaker 4 Wow. Okay, listen, before we finish, I have to say something to all the dear women who cover their hair, and to the girls too. A lot of girls listen to us who, with Hashem’s help, will cover their hair in the future. We have to say: well done. Don’t you think every woman who covers her hair deserves that? She gets up every morning and puts something on her head simply for the sake of Heaven. I...

1:01:01 Speaker 2 Let’s give them a round of applause.

1:01:02 Speaker 4 Come on, wait, where’s the applause? Remember? Woo-hoo! Really, a woman who gets up in the morning—and I know it’s less difficult for some people and more difficult for others—women who wear scarves, women who... Oh, I’m getting the terms mixed up again. Women who wear headscarves and women who wear wigs: well done, all of you. You’re—

1:01:24 Speaker 2 Champions.

1:01:25 Speaker 4 Fulfilling a mitzvah that isn’t necessarily the easiest to understand, or easy to do, or comfortable in every kind of weather. But it’s an important mitzvah, and it’s ours, a mitzvah for women. It’s a tremendous privilege, and—

1:01:45 Speaker 2 And we also have the privilege and the opportunity to do it with love and joy.

1:01:48 Speaker 4 Right.

1:01:48 Speaker 2 And energy.

1:01:49 Speaker 4 And thank G-d, we really can. You know, today we have so many options: all kinds of beautiful headscarves and special ways of tying them, and beautiful, natural-looking wigs that almost make you feel like you have nothing on your head.

1:02:02 Speaker 2 By the way, you mentioned the Rebbe, and you know I’m Litvish. As I explained earlier, every Shabbos we have an Amen gathering at our house. Children from the neighborhood come over, and I explain to them what answering Amen means and all the laws of Amen, and they also hear a story—

1:02:17 Speaker 4 Cool.

1:02:18 Speaker 2 Before the brachos, about why every brachah matters.

1:02:21 Speaker 4 Like the pesukim of the...

1:02:22 Speaker 2 Exactly. So when you mentioned the Rebbe, it reminded me that before our Amen gathering, my children go downstairs, and I hear them saying all the pesukim.

1:02:31 Speaker 4 Oh my goodness.

1:02:32 Speaker 2 And I say, who—who is saying them? The descendants of Rabbi Dovid Povarsky, from the most Litvish community! But that just shows how connected the Povarsky family is to Chabad. They’re from the Litvish world, but they’re very, very connected. Whenever my grandfather’s brothers were in the United States and went into 770, they would always be given an aliyah. You know, it was a coming together of Litvish Jews and chassidim—

1:02:55 Speaker 4 Absolutely.

1:02:56 Speaker 2 Together.

1:02:57 Speaker 4 How moving.

1:02:58 Speaker 2 Yes, it really is moving. Every time my children say them, it makes me so happy: we may come from different communities, but we’re one united people.

1:03:07 Speaker 4 That’s special. So let’s bring in what the Rebbe said about wigs: when a woman wears a wig, she covers her entire head. What’s special about a wig is that no hair is left showing.

1:03:18 Speaker 2 Exactly. People ask me, “What’s the point? If it looks so natural, why cover your hair?”

1:03:21 Speaker 4 Right, because the purpose of a wig isn’t to announce, “Here’s a married woman.” It’s to cover the hair. And as the Rebbe said, when a woman wears a wig, she can look the way she likes, the way she wants to look. A woman should look beautiful. We’re not talking about a wig that goes beyond the standards of tznius, but one that meets those standards. And it really helps ensure that not a single hair is left showing. Of course, I’m not talking about, you know, wigs that are half-wigs to begin with and things like that. When a woman wears a wig and makes sure not to leave a single hair showing, it brings a very, very, very great blessing. May we all merit—

1:03:56 Speaker 2 Amen, amen.

1:03:58 Speaker 4 Abundance. We’ve spoken about challenges, about life, and about shlichus. So may we all merit to live life to the fullest.

1:04:03 Speaker 2 Amen.

1:04:04 Speaker 4 With all the strength of our souls and a sense of shlichus. And may we bring abundant blessings to ourselves, to our children, and to all the Jewish people, and, with Hashem’s help, add more good. Thank you, Nechami. This was such a pleasure!

1:04:14 Speaker 2 Thank you so much.

1:04:14 Speaker 4 Thank you, and I wish you so, so much success going forward. May you continue to help Jewish women look beautiful and help them fulfill this mitzvah.

1:04:22 Speaker 2 Thank you so much.

1:04:49 Speaker 4 Thank you.