Tu B'Av Special - a couples' podcast on relationships | Q&A | Answering the questions you sent us

00:00 Speaker 1 Okay, a couples podcast.

00:02 Speaker 2 Yes.

00:02 Speaker 1 And why are we laughing? Because we’re still trying to figure out...

00:06 Speaker 2 How to make sure it won’t be awkward.

00:08 Speaker 1 Yes.

00:08 Speaker 2 And that it’ll be helpful.

00:09 Speaker 1 So we’re saying, okay, then here—

00:10 Speaker 2 We’re not coordinated at all.

00:11 Speaker 1 That’s the whole point of the... yes, of opposites. We’re opposites.

00:15 Speaker 2 Yes.

00:16 Speaker 1 There’s no solution to that. It takes work. Okay, so let’s talk. Since this is a couples podcast and it’s summer vacation, we can’t tell you how long it’ll be. It’ll go until—until the first child cries, or... Yes, we’ve somehow put everyone on hold, but don’t think we’re alone here. Boruch Hashem, we have five children. So...

00:34 Speaker 2 Summer vacation.

00:35 Speaker 1 All right, however much we manage is enough. Okay.

00:37 Speaker 2 That sounded ominous.

00:38 Speaker 1 I think we’ll dive straight into the questions.

00:40 Speaker 2 Let’s go.

00:40 Speaker 1 I posted on Instagram and on my status: Ask questions about marriage. They’re anonymous, which is important to mention.

00:45 Speaker 2 Yes.

00:46 Speaker 1 We’re not anonymous, but the questions are. So people asked—

00:50 Speaker 2 We came up with a cool concept when we were spending Shabbos in...

00:55 Speaker 1 By the way, it’s trendy now; everyone does it. But we were doing it back...

00:58 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, a long time ago. We wanted the farbrengen on Shabbos evening—we used to run a lot of Shabbatons, and we wanted it to be something special. And we realized that at farbrengens, a lot of people are embarrassed to ask questions. So what did we do?

01:10 Speaker 1 Not just that. They’re embarrassed to talk about the subjects that really interest them.

01:12 Speaker 2 Yes.

01:13 Speaker 1 What people actually want to hear about.

01:13 Speaker 2 Yes. So what did we do? And many of these were kids who weren’t religious at all. When we ran Shabbatons in Ukraine, before Shabbos we’d bring out slips of paper and tell everyone to write down questions anonymously. They asked such deep, interesting questions. The topics we got into!

01:30 Speaker 1 Things we’d never dreamed of.

01:31 Speaker 2 Incredible, incredible, incredible. We’d sit for hours, and people really enjoyed it. We’ve done it a lot ever since.

01:39 Speaker 1 Yes, it’s a good concept. Okay, let’s start. Wow, I see another question has come in while we’ve been talking. I should mention that I’ve skimmed some of the questions, and Mendel has no idea what’s written here. So... Oh boy, oh boy. Okay, here goes. An interesting question. I honestly don’t know where to start. Like, what’s most important? Um...

01:59 Speaker 2 At the beginning.

02:01 Speaker 1 Okay, here’s a question. “How do you manage”—this is probably from a shlucha, someone somewhere in the world—“How do you manage to make real time together, instead of getting swept up in just talking logistics about the shlichus?” Dun, dun, dun.

02:23 Speaker 2 First of all, uh...

02:24 Speaker 1 I’m directing the question to you.

02:25 Speaker 2 You can also do shlichus together and enjoy it. I remember all the times we planned Purim, and yes, it’s a lot of work. It takes many, many hours, and some of that might come at the expense of time as a couple. Of course you need to set aside time for that, but you can work together, do shlichus together. When you invite guests for Shabbos, it’s not just our family and the children. There are guests, and a lot revolves around them. You have to start cooking on Thursday, but—

02:54 Speaker 1 We used to cook together.

02:56 Speaker 2 Yes, and enjoy it. Enjoy it; make it a positive project. Shlichus isn’t something separate or annoying—just the opposite. We’re preparing for Shabbos together, bringing guests over, sitting with them on Shabbos, farbrenging, sharing divrei Torah and talking about interesting things. So yes, it’s not couple time in the same way as going out to a restaurant on Thursday night, but you can definitely enjoy it.

03:21 Speaker 1 I think, more broadly—and I’m going to say something a little deep for a moment, a bit of an aside—the more we focus in life on an inner purpose, as Chassidus teaches, whether that’s in your calling, your work, whatever you do, that’s how you live a life of shlichus. When we focus on an inner purpose, I go to work thinking all the time about the deeper purpose of what I’m doing. Then I act better and more appropriately, and I do good for the world and for myself. The same goes for marriage and for raising children. The more we focus on a deeper purpose, the more we come to understand that everything has the same ultimate purpose.

03:53 Speaker 2 Right.

03:53 Speaker 1 To add goodness to the world. Whether it’s in marriage or parenting or... The more we focus on that, the more everything comes together.

04:01 Speaker 2 A hundred percent. And for that, you have to learn a lot, constantly, and live it. It doesn’t happen automatically. It’s hard work.

04:07 Speaker 1 Yes.

04:07 Speaker 2 But it’s worthwhile work.

04:08 Speaker 1 Yes. And I think the more everything is in sync, the better—that’s actually a good sign. I don’t mean a husband brings work home, sits on the couch working while the kids are all around him, and doesn’t see anything else. No. But find the parts of your work that you can share with the children, and explain to them why what you’re doing is a good thing. Create that kind of harmony.

04:27 Speaker 2 Connect it all.

04:28 Speaker 1 Yes, but I think we need to qualify that. In most homes, that isn’t what’s happening right now. Mom has her work and Dad has his work, and if those things really don’t come together, then it’s very important to make time that’s just for the two of you.

04:44 Speaker 2 Yes, but you should still bring things together wherever you can. I mean, if there’s a day at work when you can take your child along, then do it. If you can talk about something interesting at work that would interest the kids and your wife too, talk about it at home over dinner. If Mom is a teacher, it’s important for the children to know what she does, whom she teaches, what she talks about.

05:03 Speaker 1 Yes.

05:03 Speaker 2 It’s important, really important, to connect everything as much as possible, to connect all the...

05:07 Speaker 1 She isn’t just shutting herself in a room to grade tests; she shares it with the children.

05:10 Speaker 2 Yes, the children answered questions, took a test on Mishnayos. We talked about it; we learned about it. Make it accessible to the children. I think that’s very, very important, because the children are looking for that.

05:18 Speaker 1 Yes.

05:18 Speaker 2 They want to be part of life.

05:19 Speaker 1 Yes, and again, time together as a couple is important. Like Shabbos—at some point on Shabbos, make time for just the two of you. Don’t give that up, and don’t spend it talking about all the... Um, here we are, back to the question. I think that, with all due respect to shlichus—and our dream really is for our whole life to be one big shlichus, not a burden we carry, but something we do with real eagerness and joy. It isn’t a burden. Still, there needs to be time just for us as a couple, just for that part of our lives. Like before the wedding.

05:55 Speaker 2 But you can do that while cooking, can’t you? You can talk while you cook.

06:00 Speaker 1 Yes.

06:00 Speaker 2 And set aside time to talk about the relationship and all kinds of things.

06:03 Speaker 1 I think it depends on the couple and their situation. Not everyone likes cooking, for example.

06:09 Speaker 2 Yes.

06:10 Speaker 1 If for one couple that’s the only time during the week they can have together, then great—enjoy it.

06:16 Speaker 2 I just think that, practically speaking, not every couple can actually go out every week.

06:20 Speaker 1 Yes, that’s true.

06:21 Speaker 2 For a whole evening.

06:22 Speaker 1 Be creative, in short.

06:23 Speaker 2 Yes.

06:24 Speaker 1 Okay, there’s a similar question here, so I’ll skip it. I’m really trying to decide what to choose. Okay, here’s a question: What’s most important in a marriage? How do you build a good, healthy, stable marriage? Well, you could write books about that.

06:46 Speaker 2 But there are some basic foundations that the whole marriage rests on. That’s why, when dating, it’s particularly important to do it through a shadchan. When you go to a good shadchan or shadchanit, they ask you, “What matters to you? What kind of home do you want to build?” It’s very important to be completely aligned on that. You might be very different as people, though some couples are very similar. But what matters here is the foundation. If I want to build a home that always has guests, where there’s always joy, a Chassidishe home, and you want that kind of home too, those are the foundations. Then, throughout life, you keep coming back to them.

07:37 Speaker 1 Yes, when you face different choices and dilemmas.

07:39 Speaker 2 That’s what we do.

07:40 Speaker 1 Wait, let’s remember where we started.

07:42 Speaker 2 Yes, or shlichus.

07:42 Speaker 1 You can update the foundations. Yes, sometimes people who marry at twenty aren’t the same people at forty, when suddenly an issue comes up and they need to revisit things—because things change. But...

07:57 Speaker 2 Yes, but we...

07:57 Speaker 1 Yes, the same starting point.

07:59 Speaker 2 Starting point.

07:59 Speaker 1 Yes.

08:00 Speaker 2 Yes, and always come back to that. That’s how you build. I mean, what are we doing here? When we have to make hard decisions—where to go, where to go on shlichus, which jobs to take, how to raise the children—we need to stop for a moment and ask: What are our foundations? What are we trying to do here? We want to build a faithful Jewish home on the foundations of Torah and Chassidus. That’s what we’re doing. We come back to that and do it as well as we can.

08:23 Speaker 1 Again, it’s about staying focused on our inner purpose, returning to that center all the time. I also think we really need to keep this starting point in mind: marriage takes work. Because men and women are opposites by nature.

08:36 Speaker 2 Yes.

08:38 Speaker 1 Again, it goes very deep if you get into it—in Chassidus and even in physiology. We see things differently, we experience things differently, almost in opposite ways. But it’s important to remember that. If my husband behaves in a certain way, or my wife behaves in a way I don’t understand, I can learn about that too. Yes, it’s something you can learn.

09:03 Speaker 2 You need to read and consult experts. It’s very, very important, because it can change everything. A lot of people get married and feel frustrated: Why is my wife so different from me? Why is she sensitive and I’m not? Or the other way around, or with other things.

09:17 Speaker 1 Let’s give a classic example so you understand what we mean. Usually, when women have had a hard time at work or elsewhere, their way of dealing with it is to let it out. Right? We women talk to each other all day and go on and on and on, without necessarily reaching any conclusion. That’s how a woman lets it out. Then she comes home to her husband and says, “You won’t believe what happened at work. My manager drove me crazy, and oh my goodness, I just don’t understand.” And what does her husband say? “Quit.”

09:45 Speaker 2 Yes.

09:45 Speaker 1 And it’s like, no! I don’t want to quit my job. I just wanted to share it with you.

09:51 Speaker 2 Because a man sees a problem and needs to solve it. That’s what men do—they’re always solving problems.

09:57 Speaker 1 Because he feels responsible for the home, and he wants to make sure that...

10:02 Speaker 2 Everyone is doing well.

10:04 Speaker 1 To take care of everyone—not to show off, but genuinely to take care of them. And then it’s like, wait, what did I want, and where did you take this? When you know this and remember it in the moment, you can say, “Okay, you’re already starting to solve my problems. Remember, you don’t need to solve this one?” So there’s something very real here: getting to know each other.

10:26 Speaker 2 Getting to know each other.

10:27 Speaker 1 Awareness.

10:27 Speaker 2 Some things are general patterns. A woman likes being at home and a man likes being out, though maybe for you it’s the other way around. So it’s very important to be aware.

10:36 Speaker 1 Yes.

10:36 Speaker 2 Or it may be a bit of both. Really, be aware of your own relationship.

10:40 Speaker 1 Aware and in sync.

10:41 Speaker 2 In sync.

10:43 Speaker 1 Okay, so that’s it in a nutshell. Listen, we haven’t fully answered the question, but what can you do? How do you build a good, healthy, stable marriage? Maybe we should mention a few more very, very important things, like trust.

10:55 Speaker 2 Trust. Wow.

10:56 Speaker 1 Trust, openness.

10:58 Speaker 2 Openness.

10:58 Speaker 1 Not being afraid to talk about anything.

11:00 Speaker 2 About everything.

11:01 Speaker 1 Talk about everything.

11:02 Speaker 2 Just talk—and be careful, too. Really be respectful. I mean...

11:11 Speaker 1 How you talk.

11:12 Speaker 2 How you talk. Yes. Don’t say right in the heat of the moment, “Why did you do that? Why did you do that?” And also...

11:18 Speaker 1 Don’t judge, don’t blame.

11:19 Speaker 2 Don’t judge. Be respectful, too. Speak the way you would to someone outside your home. You wouldn’t yell to someone from the other room, “Chaim, can you come here?” If you want to tell your wife something, go over to her for a moment.

11:30 Speaker 1 Yes.

11:30 Speaker 2 Say it kindly and pleasantly. If you have some criticism, be very, very careful to express it respectfully. And again, do it with the feeling that we’re here together, trying to build a faithful Jewish home. Not because this or that is so important to me personally, but because we know we’re building something here. There’s a leak somewhere that we need to fix. Just keep that foundation in mind.

12:00 Speaker 1 Here’s a question that follows on from that a little: How do you deal with anger and frustration toward your spouse? If I understand correctly, the question is about one-sided anger.

12:12 Speaker 2 Oof, oof.

12:13 Speaker 1 It’s really about working on your middos.

12:15 Speaker 2 Yes. Learning lots and lots of Chassidus. There are incredible tools.

12:19 Speaker 1 Learning Chassidus.

12:19 Speaker 2 Incredible tools in Tanya. You simply have to learn Tanya every day, every day. Even a little, a few minutes. It’s really... that’s the foundation. How do you deal with anger? Broadly speaking, you take yourself out of the picture as much as possible.

12:35 Speaker 1 Right. You’re not the center.

12:37 Speaker 2 You—

12:37 Speaker 1 When we put ourselves at the center, we feel so sorry for ourselves. We fall into a pattern of victimhood and blame.

12:43 Speaker 2 Oh, wow.

12:44 Speaker 1 And nothing good comes of it.

12:45 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. It’s very important to set yourself aside. Okay, it wasn’t exactly what you expected, what you pictured, or what you thought. It’s all right, it’s all right. Calm down for a moment; take a breath. Tanya says that a person who gets angry is as though he were worshipping idols. Because what is he really saying? “Wait, that wasn’t supposed to happen. It shouldn’t have been this way.” So he gets upset. Who says it wasn’t supposed to be this way? Who says everything has to be perfect, exactly as you imagined and wanted it to look? Quite the opposite. Life usually doesn’t work that way.

13:17 Speaker 1 Let’s also touch briefly on this subject. It’s a very deep one, but it’s about expectations. What is an expectation? Why do we get angry? Usually because we’re disappointed.

13:28 Speaker 2 Yes.

13:28 Speaker 1 Why are we disappointed? Because we expected something.

13:30 Speaker 2 Yes.

13:31 Speaker 1 And expectations really come from a place of thinking everything is supposed to go according to—

13:37 Speaker 2 What I...

13:37 Speaker 1 What I think. I mean, if I imagined things going a certain way and they didn’t, then once again I’m putting myself at the center. So it’s very, very important to keep doing that inner work: “Hey, calm down. You’re not the center. You have a lot of strength, and you have a lot of choice.”

13:56 Speaker 2 And aspirations.

13:56 Speaker 1 Not everything is supposed to happen the way you picture it in your head.

14:00 Speaker 2 I think it’s important to distinguish between expectations and aspirations. Aspirations are healthy. You aspire for everything to be as it should be, for your home to be Chassidish, for there to be plenty of money, for everything to be good and everyone to be healthy. It’s good to aspire to that. You work hard together and aspire to build a really strong home with solid foundations.

14:16 Speaker 1 And the aspirations need to be—

14:17 Speaker 2 But, but not to exp—

14:18 Speaker 1 Shared.

14:19 Speaker 2 Because I aspire to be a millionaire too, but I don’t expect it. If I don’t become one, that’s okay. But aspiring is healthy, good and important.

14:26 Speaker 1 Yes. And another thing: really looking at the other person favorably. How do you deal with anger and frustration toward your spouse? Okay, they did something annoying, but there’s so much more to them than that. Try, for a moment, to remember their good qualities. Sometimes that’s so important.

14:43 Speaker 2 Also remember that he’s in a battle—a personal battle, as Chassidus says.

14:47 Speaker 1 Yes.

14:48 Speaker 2 That he has... Each of us is in a personal battle.

14:49 Speaker 1 Are you perfect? Do you never get angry? And maybe you really do get angry less often, because everyone has areas where they’re more...

14:56 Speaker 2 Weak.

14:56 Speaker 1 Weak. Some people are quicker to anger, some people are more sluggish; everyone has their own struggles. So remember that we were born into this world to work on ourselves. And it’s not just us—our spouses were too. So don’t judge, and don’t rush to blame.

15:12 Speaker 2 Yes.

15:14 Speaker 1 Don’t rush to bl—don’t blame at all, but... okay.

15:17 Speaker 2 Really avoid accusations, because they don’t lead anywhere good.

15:21 Speaker 1 Okay, here’s an interesting question: How do you become a power couple? Is it possible for both spouses to be active, doing things and making a big impact, or does one of them have to stay more behind the scenes to keep it all going? First of all, I think some of those words are very much about how things look from the outside. What does “being active, doing things and making a big impact” mean? I don’t really like the phrase “making a big impact,” because...

15:45 Speaker 2 In what area? Making an impact where?

15:47 Speaker 1 No, “crushing it” is also very much about appearances. Let’s focus on the real goal. Everyone needs to fulfill their shlichus, that’s clear. How excited you are about it, and how much you actually manage to achieve—that’s the question. I’m just sharpening the question. So what she’s really asking is: Can both spouses fulfill their goals and bring what they have to offer into the world? Or does—

16:18 Speaker 2 One of them have to give something up?

16:20 Speaker 1 Yes, because it’s a very reasonable question. There’s a home, there are children, there are bags of garbage to take out, and our resources are limited. Ultimately, there has to be some order of priorities. So do you need to prioritize one spouse while the other stays behind the scenes, or is there a way for both of them to bring what they have to offer?

16:38 Speaker 2 I think it might even be dangerous for a couple to decide that one spouse gets to fulfill their potential and the other just handles chores and practical things. What happens then is that a very big gap develops. It doesn’t matter whether it’s the woman or the man who’s out all day, running a business or doing something else, while the other is always at home handling the practical matters. Again, each couple needs to consider the life they want to live, but it’s absolutely possible for both. It’s possible to make it happen. It’s complicated. And there may be a week when you need to pursue what you’re here to do, and I don’t get to do as much of what I’d like; then the following week we switch. You need to give—

17:36 Speaker 1 Okay, where were we? I need to remember. It was in connection with the question about the power couple.

17:53 Speaker 2 Yes, we finished that point.

17:55 Speaker 1 We did? Okay. Let’s move on to the next question. Oh, here’s an interesting one. “Is it true that, as time goes on, love grows between couples who live according to halachah?” Basically, it’s a question about family purity: Does it work?

18:16 Speaker 2 One hundred percent.

18:17 Speaker 1 One hundred percent. That’s the answer. I think, in a way, the very fact that—look, put all the details aside for a moment. Hakadosh Boruch Hu created the world, Hakadosh Boruch Hu created us, and the Torah existed long before us. The world was created to fit the Torah, not the other way around, as it says. True, we don’t understand everything, and it doesn’t always seem clear to us. But He’s the Maker, and He knows what He’s doing. Sometimes I think that understanding itself makes the difference. If I’m resisting something, it’s much harder for me, and it’s harder to see its good sides—to see how it might even help me, support me, and be for my benefit.

19:09 Speaker 2 I think the secret, in Judaism too, is to see everything as something that’s good for you. You can look at Shabbos and say, “Ugh, how annoying—I can’t use my phone on Shabbos.” Or you can say, “How wonderful that we have Shabbos, one day a week when we can just be with our family.” It’s all about perspective, how we look at things. The same goes for family purity. Someone can say, “This is hard and frustrating. Why did Hashem give us all these—”

19:42 Speaker 1 Yes.

19:43 Speaker 2 All these halachos?

19:44 Speaker 1 That doesn’t mean it can’t be hard.

19:45 Speaker 2 It can be hard. Shabbos can also be hard for a family.

19:47 Speaker 1 Lots of things in life are hard, but where would we be without them?

19:50 Speaker 2 Exactly. It’s hard, but it’s for our benefit.

19:53 Speaker 1 Yes.

19:54 Speaker 2 To accept it the way Rashi says in Chumash: Don’t say, “I don’t like pork.”

20:00 Speaker 1 Yes.

20:00 Speaker 2 Say, “Pork is very tasty, but Hakadosh Boruch Hu forbade it to me.”

20:04 Speaker 1 Yes.

20:04 Speaker 2 And we need to remember that it’s for our benefit.

20:06 Speaker 1 Yes. We’re fortunate to know that and to live by the ultimate specifications, if you can call it that—the ultimate blueprint for life. Good. Another question. Which one shall we choose? Which one? Let me read just the second part of this question, because the first is similar to something we’ve already covered. “How do I accept my spouse’s opinions and ideas when they might actually contradict my dream and what I want to be—and what I want in practice when it comes to shlichus and working together?”

20:53 Speaker 2 Hmm.

20:57 Speaker 1 Interesting question.

20:58 Speaker 2 First, understand that you’re different. Understand that you can’t really expect your spouse to go along with all your aspirations, all your ideas for shlichus, and—

21:10 Speaker 1 I think—what are the chances—

21:13 Speaker 2 Yes.

21:13 Speaker 1 That you’ll have exactly the same desires, aspirations, and specific goals?

21:18 Speaker 2 That can’t happen. They can’t match exactly. But you do need to talk about it a lot. You need to talk so that each spouse understands what the other is looking for and wants to accomplish. Without that openness, if you don’t talk about these things, how can I help you do what you’re here to do? I don’t even know what you want.

21:42 Speaker 1 Yes. But from what I understand, she’s saying they’re on shlichus together, and he doesn’t understand the way she sees things. Again, yes, they need to talk. By the way, I’m remembering something else I wanted to say about the previous question and didn’t. You started talking about a situation where one spouse needs to travel for a week, for example. Obviously, the other has to slow down on their own pursuits. And I also think we should take the expression “fulfilling ourselves” out of our vocabulary, because we’re not here to fulfill ourselves. We didn’t come down into this world to fulfill ourselves, but to give of ourselves to others and to the world, and to understand why we’re here. “Fulfilling myself” is very self-centered. Again, what am I really here for? Why did I come down, and what benefit do I bring to the world? What I wanted to say was—I’d started saying that our resources are limited.

22:38 Speaker 2 Yes.

22:39 Speaker 1 So you can’t bang your head against the wall and say, “No, of course we can do it—if we talk, everything works out.” Wait a second. You need to get help. You need to figure out how to make it work. Every family—and even every couple from one week to the next—is at a different point in life.

22:54 Speaker 2 Every day.

22:54 Speaker 1 Every day.

22:55 Speaker 2 Even within the same day.

22:56 Speaker 1 You have children at one age, then children at another age. The whole dynamic changes. Take our family, for example: we have five children. The oldest is almost nine, and the youngest is ten months old. Six months ago, we were a different family.

23:11 Speaker 2 Yes.

23:11 Speaker 1 We had a newborn.

23:12 Speaker 2 A different dynamic.

23:13 Speaker 1 And our three-year-old was two. It was different. Things change so much.

23:18 Speaker 2 Yes, completely.

23:19 Speaker 1 You move house and have a young woman next door who can help—that can change the whole picture. Or you have a grandmother who’s involved in raising the children and really helps out...

23:28 Speaker 2 But what you do need to do is sit down and talk—

23:30 Speaker 1 It depends on so much.

23:30 Speaker 2 Talk and think about how to make it work as well as possible.

23:32 Speaker 1 Exactly. Given the life we have—

23:34 Speaker 2 As it is now.

23:34 Speaker 1 Given all the circumstances, how can we get help? How can we bring in help? It’s not shameful, and it’s not a weakness. Quite the opposite. It can lift your energy to a higher level.

23:46 Speaker 2 Yes.

23:47 Speaker 1 And let you use that energy for something higher.

23:48 Speaker 2 Asking for help is hard too. But when you understand it’s for a higher purpose—for building this beautiful home we’ve been talking about—

23:58 Speaker 1 Yes. Again, it’s not a matter of something being more or less important. Take summer vacation, for example, right?

24:02 Speaker 2 Yes.

24:02 Speaker 1 The children are the most important thing, of course. You need to stay aware of that, and the whole atmosphere is different. But wait—maybe I can find someone to look after them for a few hours a day. Then I can recharge, and for the rest of the day I can be one hundred percent present with them, because I’ve taken care of everything else I needed to do.

24:19 Speaker 2 Yes, and spouses can work that out between themselves too. You be with them for two hours while I work, and then we’ll switch.

24:25 Speaker 1 Yes.

24:26 Speaker 2 In other words—

24:26 Speaker 1 And not as a way of keeping score, G-d forbid.

24:28 Speaker 2 Yes, G-d forbid. No keeping score—quite the opposite. You work together so each person can find their place and do their part. And yes, if your spouse sees things differently in a certain area, respect that. Find a way for them to pursue what matters to them, and then the other way around. When you do that, it works. It can work beautifully. You just need to give it time and be very creative, because in real life it’s hard for each person to truly find their place. But it’s absolutely possible. You just have to work very hard and, sometimes, be very creative.

25:03 Speaker 1 Yes, and I also think each person needs to think about the other. Just as one of the things that matters to you is bringing your own self into the world, it should really matter to you that your husband brings his own self into the world. To want that for the other person.

25:17 Speaker 2 Yes, to understand that it’s a joint project.

25:19 Speaker 1 Joint.

25:20 Speaker 2 A joint project. There isn’t your self-fulfillment, his self-fulfillment, and the children’s self-fulfillment. Everything here is shared. We’re building a home, we’re building a family, we’re building something together. So being in sync, and being creative about it, is the secret.

25:35 Speaker 1 Okay, good. What should we choose? What should we choose? What should we choose? Someone here wrote a question that’s a little... “How do I respect my husband even when he responds in a bizarre, messed-up, crazy way to different situations in life or with the children?” I think this is the place to say that some situations are problematic.

25:55 Speaker 2 Yes, and you need to address them with professionals.

25:57 Speaker 1 I mean, of course you need to respect your husband and learn to respect him even in situations where it’s hard. But there is a red line.

26:05 Speaker 2 There are exceptions; some things are outside the norm.

26:06 Speaker 1 The word “crazy” here sets off alarm bells for me.

26:08 Speaker 2 Some things are outside the norm. If a husband or wife behaves in a bizarre, unusual way, you have to go to professionals. You have to. Maybe what you have, and don’t realize because you have nothing to compare it to, is actual abuse, and...

26:25 Speaker 1 Yes.

26:26 Speaker 2 And you have to address it immediately, because it can get much worse. I don’t know what area we’re talking about, right? Or responses that are just bizarre—like, you’ve never heard human beings speak that way.

26:38 Speaker 1 Yes.

26:39 Speaker 2 You have to go to couples therapy.

26:40 Speaker 1 If it feels like...

26:41 Speaker 2 Either the therapist, as a professional who’s truly invested years in the field, will say, “There’s a way to address this; let’s work on it together,” or it really is something that calls for something more serious.

26:54 Speaker 1 Yes. So...

26:56 Speaker 2 And don’t take it lightly, because things can get worse. If something is bizarre, something that disrupts your life to that extent, go get help for it as soon as possible.

27:09 Speaker 1 Okay, there’s an interesting question here... There are two questions from young women who aren’t married yet. So let’s turn to those for a moment.

27:15 Speaker 2 Wishing you success with shidduchim.

27:16 Speaker 1 “I really want to get married, but I feel so embarrassed to talk about it, to ask for it. What attitude should I bring to shidduchim?”

27:25 Speaker 2 I think that a lot of young women in general—maybe it’s something particular to certain communities; maybe not in Chabad—feel that perhaps they don’t deserve enough, and maybe... I mean, what is there to be embarrassed about? What is there to be embarrassed about?

27:41 Speaker 1 I think, listen, you, you, you—baruch Hashem. You want to get married? The way I see it, that means everything is working as it should. Baruch Hashem, you know, that isn’t something we can take for granted today. And I think the embarrassment comes from a very modest place, if I’m reading her correctly.

28:02 Speaker 2 First of all, I think it’s also okay to be a little embarrassed.

28:04 Speaker 1 Maybe she’s a bit young, so she’s embarrassed that it’s already on her mind so much, but...

28:09 Speaker 2 It’s healthy. It’s good.

28:10 Speaker 1 You’re healthy; everything is working fine for you, baruch Hashem. You’re in an excellent place.

28:13 Speaker 2 Yes, and I think being a little embarrassed is healthy too.

28:15 Speaker 1 Yes, it’s okay.

28:16 Speaker 2 It’s good to be a little embarrassed. I mean, you’re going on a date with someone of the opposite sex. It’s okay to feel a little uncomfortable, but you do need to understand that it’s okay and get past it. Because, again, we come back to this point: we’re here for a purpose much higher than the discomfort. We’re here to build a home. We’re here to see whether we’re right for each other, to build a home together the way we envision it.

28:41 Speaker 1 And also, know that this is just a stage. You’re embarrassed now, and with Hashem’s help you’ll meet your partner and build a life. You won’t be embarrassed afterward. It’s okay. If it’s a reasonable, sweet kind of embarrassment that comes from that innocent, pure place, then it’s lovely.

29:02 Speaker 2 Yes.

29:02 Speaker 1 Lovely, in my eyes. You’re doing great. Wishing you success. And yes, when you approach shidduchim, don’t forget what matters to you. As you said, sometimes young women come from a place of feeling very, very... you know, there’s that attitude.

29:18 Speaker 2 “Who would even marry me?”

29:21 Speaker 1 “The first person who’ll take me—I mean...”

29:23 Speaker 2 No, you mustn’t.

29:24 Speaker 1 Know what matters to you. Know what you’re looking for. What kind of home you want to build, what things you don’t want to compromise on. And with Hashem’s help...

29:35 Speaker 2 And have a lot of faith. Hashem is with you. You’re setting out to do the most extraordinary thing in the world: build a faithful home in Israel. Hashem is with you, holiness is with you, the world is with you, and I wish you tremendous success.

29:51 Speaker 1 Wait, I’m looking. Ah, here’s another one. Okay. “People always tell me I’m a little like a man in the things I do—taking out the garbage, changing a flat tire. It’s never bothered me and still doesn’t, but when I started dating, people began telling me it’s a problem, because then I’m not making room for a man, and men’s and women’s roles need to be kept separate. So what’s the bottom line? I still haven’t found an answer, and I’m also sure I’m not going to change. It’s only my perspective that needs to change. What do you think?” She’s so sweet.

30:17 Speaker 2 I think... there’s no problem. You’re allowed to be a little different. So what? You have a personality that’s a bit more masculine.

30:26 Speaker 1 There’s a whole spectrum. A certain percentage of women have that.

30:31 Speaker 2 Yes, and a certain percentage of men are more feminine by nature, and that’s all fine. Just be open about it: “This is what I’m like.” Let a potential husband know that’s what you’re like, and that’s okay. Maybe he’ll be fine with it.

30:46 Speaker 1 And I do think you should make room for him, too. It doesn’t have to be only you. There’s your husband as well.

30:55 Speaker 2 Yes, so one time she’ll take out the garbage, another time...

30:57 Speaker 1 Take turns.

30:59 Speaker 2 They’ll take turns.

31:00 Speaker 1 Yes, but wait, I wanted to say something else. I think that until a woman... Every... I don’t know what words to use. A young man, a young woman, a boy, a girl—as they start growing up and all the hormones start and everything, the body is still finding its way. In other words, you feel this way now, but you aren’t married yet.

31:19 Speaker 2 Right, things change.

31:20 Speaker 1 Give yourself a chance. You wrote, “I’m also sure I’m not going to change.” Delete that.

31:26 Speaker 2 Don’t be sure of that at all.

31:27 Speaker 1 Delete it. Our bodies change. With Hashem’s help, you’re going to become pregnant and give birth and be someone’s wife, and that has an effect. So it’s all okay. First of all, it’s okay that this is what you’re like. Always make room for your husband because you respect him, because you want to give him that space. And don’t be afraid to be yourself, either.

31:48 Speaker 2 And I’m sure there’s a man looking for a woman like that, too.

31:51 Speaker 1 Yes.

31:51 Speaker 2 I’m sure.

31:51 Speaker 1 There’s a lid for every pot.

31:53 Speaker 2 Yes.

31:53 Speaker 1 But don’t be afraid to change, either, and to find your more feminine side. I do think there’s something in a marriage... Today, in so-called modern feminism, there’s a lot of talk about how a woman can do this, and a woman can do that, and a woman can do that. And it’s true, we...

32:18 Speaker 2 Don’t need a husband at all.

32:19 Speaker 1 Yes. True, we can do anything. But keep in mind that, yes, you can change a flat tire and you even enjoy changing a flat tire. Go ahead—do things around the house, renovate it yourself, bring that talent of yours into it. But don’t forget that you’re a woman, and I think a man does need to feel...

32:39 Speaker 2 That he’s the one who gives.

32:40 Speaker 1 That sense that his wife depends on him—and I mean dependence in a good sense—that place where...

32:44 Speaker 2 His wife depends on him.

32:45 Speaker 1 Yes.

32:46 Speaker 2 Yes, that’s very important.

32:46 Speaker 1 Don’t give up that feminine side. Don’t give it up. Bring that supposedly masculine side as something fun, as a hobby, as a talent, but also be a wife to your husband.

33:01 Speaker 2 They don’t really contradict each other. I don’t see much of a contradiction. I think you can be the wife your husband is looking for and also take out the garbage. That isn’t the problem. I think it’s hard—

33:17 Speaker 1 Taking out the garbage is one kind of example, but I understand that changing a flat tire was more what she meant.

33:22 Speaker 2 I think it’s also hard for her to imagine because she hasn’t yet met the man she’ll live with.

33:27 Speaker 1 Right.

33:27 Speaker 2 I think that with time you’ll—

33:28 Speaker 1 It’s important for her to discover more sides of herself.

33:30 Speaker 2 Yes, you’ll see it won’t be a problem at all. He just needs to understand what kind of person you are, to get to know that side of you.

33:37 Speaker 1 Yes. Okay, um, which one should we choose? Which one? Which one? Okay, another question: How can you really make space for someone? Oh boy.

33:53 Speaker 2 Really make space for someone?

33:54 Speaker 1 Make space for the...

33:56 Speaker 2 It comes from giving your spouse room. When you give them their space, when you respect them as a person—as a person dealing with their own struggles—then you really can... Again, if I’m not experiencing what my spouse is experiencing, there’s no way, no real way, to actually feel what the other person feels.

34:22 Speaker 1 But I think the goal here is at least to make them feel that you’re making space for them.

34:27 Speaker 2 But also to really make space for them. For me, making space means—

34:30 Speaker 1 Making them feel that there’s room for them.

34:33 Speaker 2 That I respect you, I understand you. I genuinely think and believe that what you’re dealing with is legitimate. To validate it. Making space means validation. It’s okay that you’re dealing with what you’re dealing with, and I accept you as you are, with your struggles and everything that comes with them. That’s truly making space for someone.

34:57 Speaker 1 I think it’s also really important to understand that every person experiences reality differently. We’re not alike at all—not just spouses, but people in general.

35:07 Speaker 2 People in general.

35:08 Speaker 1 You experience a situation one way; someone else sees it differently. So the starting point is: I don’t understand them, and that’s okay. Not every behavior is okay, not everything is, but... from there you can begin trying to understand. From that place of “I don’t understand.”

35:27 Speaker 2 Yes, really remembering that it’s okay not to understand your spouse completely. It’s okay not to know exactly why they feel the way they do. It’s okay. Let go a little. It’s okay. So your spouse is a little more this way or a little more that way. They have feelings you don’t have, and they take certain things harder than you do. That’s okay. It’s okay. Let your spouse be who they are, with their problems and their own things.

35:58 Speaker 1 Okay, we closed the door again.

36:01 Speaker 2 Yes, our children are home, so it’s a little difficult and complicated. Like we’ve talked about on this podcast, life is complicated, and you have to be very, very creative to build things so they’re as good as they can be. It will never be perfect, but it can be as good as possible. I really enjoyed this podcast.—Me too.—And I enjoyed the questions. I hope we helped as many people as possible. It’s very, very important to remember that we’re all different, and advice that’s good for one person might be less helpful for someone else. So... [unclear]. Yes. Consult people, read books, seek advice, and if you enjoyed this, write to us with more questions. With Hashem’s help, we’ll do this again.—We’ll do more.—Yes, send questions. Maybe we’ll do this on other topics too. I think, after all, we’ve been married for almost ten years, and we’ve got quite a bit of experience. I think it’s a great privilege to be able to share what we know to help someone else. Hopefully it helps someone.—Hopefully. And really, don’t forget that your relationship is the foundation of your home. Your relationship is the foundation of your home. It’s not just another area you need to invest in. When your relationship works well, you’ll be better people. You’ll be calmer, more successful, and better parents. And it’s possible. It’s possible. It’s possible. Work, work, work—and it’s work that pays off.—Yes. Usually, when you see a couple from the outside and think, “Wow, everything is wonderful with them,” either it isn’t all wonderful, or they’re working hard.—Yes. So, may we all have success, and...—Yes, may everyone have blessing in their relationships.—Yes. Blessing, strength, and a generous eye.—Yes, and for the girls who haven’t married yet, may it truly be... however hard it is to say “easily,” but—A fitting match.—A fitting match, and truly...

37:51 Speaker 2 Take a breath. Everything is okay; everything is from Heaven. Have lots and lots of faith. Hashem wants what’s best for us. With a lot of faith, with Hashem’s help, you’ll find the spouse who’s right for you and build a faithful Jewish home. Amen.