עבודת ה' כאן ועכשיו – הרב גבריאל לוין

00:00 Speaker 1 Our goal in life is not to have a goal.

00:01 Speaker 2 Oh.

00:01 Speaker 1 Our goal in life is the present, to serve Hashem right now.

00:03 Speaker 2 Oh, so that's... Uh-huh, so that goes back to practical science.

00:05 Speaker 1 Yeah. Years ago, a bachur asked me, "What's the practical lesson from the yuchvat 12 for Rabbi Akiva versus Avraham Avinu?" The difference is Rabbi Akiva wanted to be a shliach. Avraham Avinu didn't mind going to business.

00:17 Speaker 2 Yeah.

00:17 Speaker 1 That's, that's the... Rabbi Akiva wanted to be a shliach. He wanted ha'mesirut nefesh. He wanted to have that madeh. He wanted that title. "Oh, I'm official shliach." Avraham Avinu didn't care. He wanted to offer that's what he had to do. See, Avraham, in a restaurant, that's what he did. In a restaurant, then he sold and he made money, which was very success- successful. And at, and, and on the side, or m- that was his main thing, he was teaching the whole time. But this goal that I have to be a title, I have to reach a certain level, that's something which is foreign to us.

00:44 Speaker 2 You know, when you're at a good farbrengen and you wish it was being recorded? Welcome to Spreading the Springs: Conversations in Chassidus, a podcast farbrengen where we have real conversations about real Chassidus. I'm sitting here with Rabbi Gavriel Levin, mashpia in... Mashpia, rosh yeshiva, both.

01:06 Speaker 1 In mesivta, I don't think there's a big difference between mashpia and rosh yeshiva.

01:09 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

01:09 Speaker 1 I, I teach, I teach in the mesivta. I teach nigleh and Chassidus, and my, the way I look at it, you're teaching a mesivta bachur. It's more or less is all bazach. In my nigleh shiurim, I teach Chassidus. In my Chassidus, I might say nigleh.

01:19 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

01:20 Speaker 1 So it's, uh, yeah, we do both.

01:22 Speaker 2 Fair. So I, I think, I think mashpia is, uh, is a higher, is a higher role to look, uh, adar the fact that the, the, the shochet had to be more on a higher level than the rav. So I think mashpia is, is more prestigious, so to speak, than rosh yeshiva.

01:36 Speaker 1 It's a better, better salary in some places, yeah.

01:39 Speaker 2 That, that's good to know. But, uh, I'm saying in, in terms of, uh, what you do for the bachur, in terms of, uh, what the, you know-

01:45 Speaker 1 Yeah

01:45 Speaker 2 ... how, how much the bachur are walking away with, I think the mashpia they could connect to more and than, uh, than the rosh yeshiva, than the magid shiur. Yeah, so-

01:54 Speaker 1 Yeah

01:54 Speaker 2 ... Postville is... I, I, I actually think, I was thinking about it before, and, uh, I wasn't in Postville, even though I'm a Rabashkan, but I wasn't in Postville in the, when I was a bachur in the Rabashkan days.

02:03 Speaker 1 You used to say your connection to Postville, it's the same. We designed it.

02:05 Speaker 2 Exactly. So, so I was never here as a bachur. I only made it here after I got married. My wife is from Postville. And I remember the first Shabbos I was here was in the, after mechasa. It was in the spring, before Lag BaOmer, and, uh, I went outside after davening with my, with my talis and my siddur to the back porch outside the shul. Um, and you know, as anyone who was in Postville watching this, you know, they see the fields for miles and miles, the horizon. I remember standing there and being like, "This is where you could think Chassidus." This is like standing here on the back porch of shul, staring out to the fields till-

02:39 Speaker 1 I could... I might say for a story. Your uncle, Rabbi Akiva, alav ha-shalom-

02:42 Speaker 2 Right

02:42 Speaker 1 ... he came here a few summers with his program.

02:44 Speaker 2 Right.

02:44 Speaker 1 So he used to... When he... One Shabbos, I, I, I walk home from shul. I walk through that whole field over there.

02:49 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

02:50 Speaker 1 So there's a little park over there which so almo- almost no one hangs out, especially in those days. I was walking, it's the middle of nowhere. Akiva was sitting over there at 2:00 in the afternoon with Shabbos chazaronus, talis he put on top, and he was without a siddur. He couldn't carry it there.

03:02 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

03:02 Speaker 1 Davening out be- be- be- bevor. I stood there for a couple minutes behind him. He didn't hear me. Whatever. It was mamash a machza. He was sitting over there davening. Later Shabbos afternoon, he farbrenged afterwards. So I asked him, "Well, you saw the Yeah.

03:16 Speaker 2 He might have seen it. So I, I, I think that, that the part of Postville being a shtetl, the unique shtetl that it is, and obviously this is not gonna be a Postville podcast to talk about the history of Postville and all that, but I think it lends itself to the... That's what I'm saying. I think it lends itself to the uniqueness of the, of the yeshiva, and the bachur that come even the bachur... Obviously, they're not from Postville, but they come here and it's like you're here, you get off the plane wherever you land, you travel between two to four to five hours to get here, and you're here, and then you're stuck here. And, uh, if you need something, you go to Walmart, uh, for half an hour, you know?

03:47 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

03:47 Speaker 2 So the... I think that, that... I think there's something, uh, special about that, and that's probably what it's about. So for... So let's, let's start, let's back up. What's, what's... How do you land here? What's your, uh, what's your history?

03:59 Speaker 1 Um, so all the, all the problem that they go into-

04:03 Speaker 2 Whatever. How much, uh, yeah, whatever

04:04 Speaker 1 ... I was a bachur in 770, and, uh, there was punked fights going on, which I didn't like. And the day after one of the big fights, which friends of mine on both sides were involved, it was very uncomfortable. So some bachurim in 770 were making a mifsa. They needed money. So they came here to Rabashkan. They asked him for money. So Rabashkan said, "I'll give you money for your mifsa on condition that you help me. I give mishlochim for my yeshiva."

04:26 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

04:27 Speaker 1 So they came back the next day after this fight happened, and they came to me. They says in Yiddish, "Mishlochim." So they were Israelis, and I speak English. I'm American. So they... Kids, so they asked me to come and, uh, be the shliach. So I, I said, "I'll come." It was after Yutrovat. "I'll come till Pesach." For two months, and this way they'll get their money. Rabashkan gets a shliach for two months, and everyone's happy. When I got here, the yeshiva then was very small. We went through many nigleh golim. At that time it was very small, and the bachurim techem there was no shlochim over here. So the bachurim asked me, "Can I please come back after, after Pesach again?" So I came back after Pesach also for another two months. And then that's it. I did my, uh, so to speak, shlochim. And the year after that, they called me again, can I come back again. So I came back the next year as well. So I was basically here almost two full years of shlochim. And then I built up a kesher with the hanhalah that was here at the time and with my, uh, with some of the people in the community a little bit. So after I got married, it was kind of like I knew that I had this offer, and they techem gave it to me. And then, uh, spoke to my mashpia, and he gave me his blessings, and here we are.

05:21 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. All right. Yeah. That's, uh... Uh-huh. So this is what year? What the... What, what, meaning what year did you get m- a- you-

05:27 Speaker 1 Samachbeis when I came here the first time, and then I came Samachgimmel for my second year. And then I got married in Samachei, so I came here Samachvat.

05:34 Speaker 2 And when you came, you came as mashpia of which year?

05:37 Speaker 1 My job was always the official teacher of siddurs for year Beis, and I did afternoon girsa in, uh, the two, three hours in the afternoon, girsa and shol hanarah.

05:44 Speaker 2 And that's what you still do now, year Beis?

05:46 Speaker 1 Uh, so now I over the years started combining classes. So now I teach Tanya in the morning. So I teach two years. I, my, my goal is to finish Tanya in two years. So the first year I try to do from ha'kadimah till Pelek Lamedhei, Lameddaled. The second year, Lamedhei till the end. So I start off with from days one year and then to continue with that same class for the next year, . And then I go back and again, I take the other class, . So this way-

06:09 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

06:10 Speaker 1 ... whoever's here for three or for... If you're here those two years, then you get, then you're with me for two years. If you're here for three years, then you don't have me either the first year or your last year.

06:16 Speaker 2 Right. Interesting. Okay, that's an interesting, uh, way to do Tanya. I'd like to actually talk about that 'cause, uh, I'm gathering different, uh, the different and how to teach Tanya, and this sound, it sounds relatively more like Girsah if you're doing 35 perakim in one year, especially if it's .

06:33 Speaker 1 So it depends what does Girsah mean. Girsah mean like this, I know, uh, people talk about this a lot, that some people focus on all the Rebbe's biurim and the chidushim, and especially now with the Tanya Yesodim, everyone's going crazy excited about it.

06:43 Speaker 2 Yeah.

06:44 Speaker 1 But, uh, you have to know the pshat in the Tanya. That's how people talk about the most. And like, that's obviously the, the base thing. Like, I always tell the bachur that Tanya was a work of art. It all builds up one layer over the next layer, all flows one to the next thing. And the, for example, . The Rebbe has a whole biur how it's not stamped through . It's actually connected. So I try to... I'm always going, going back and putting in sections like the Tanya Map that you-

07:03 Speaker 2 Right

07:03 Speaker 1 ... started a while ago, and other people have done similar things now. The Inbetweeners, Chaim Miller, he also has like a statistical chart.

07:09 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

07:09 Speaker 1 So I always try to speak about what, w- w- where are we going? What's the ? What's happening over here? And then I speak a lot. I don't, I don't read quickly at all. I talk, I fabreng, and I say many different things over there, but so the bachur, midderech, I don't feel that I'm rushing. Once in a while, I wanna finish something at a certain time, you know, before a minyan zman or something, I wanna finish a perekh. But usually I'm not that connected. This morning I taught maybe five or six lines, and I just went on and on about, uh, . What does it mean when you love someone, they love you back? Is, is that a rule? If I like you, you like me automatically? Sometimes in yeshiva, bachurim like each other, and they don't like each other back. So what's pshat? How does that work? And teachers, sometimes I like my students, they don't like me or, or vice versa. So how does that work? So we, we have... I, it's make conversations. I make it all realistic and part of life. So we, we speak a lot, and then we'll read it in silence. So, and then set up shop. So I will say biur from time to time that I'll find other things that, but things that I, I, I, I, I... It resonates with me. It resonates with the pshat in the Tanya. That makes sense to me.

07:59 Speaker 2 Right.

07:59 Speaker 1 So I'll say that, yeah.

08:00 Speaker 2 That's, that's what, that's what I mean by Girsah, the focusing on the pshat of what's actually just being said. And, uh, I think, I think the s- the sequence and the, the flow of the perakim, I think that's very crucial. That's very, uh-

08:11 Speaker 1 Yeah

08:11 Speaker 2 ... but, um, as opposed to, yeah, as opposed to the iyukim and all the-

08:16 Speaker 1 I feel that the iyukim can, can, cannot be before you know the pshat.

08:19 Speaker 2 Right.

08:19 Speaker 1 'Cause then you lose the pshat. Why does he say over here? You know, why, why is he quoted this Maram bachur and that Maram bachur? And why say hulhu and vehulhu-

08:26 Speaker 2 Right

08:26 Speaker 1 ... and so what are those differences like? I, a lot of times I'll say there's a biur over here, daf and kol, but I won't get into the pshat and what the biur actually is. There is a biur over here and what it is, uh, in . There's a whole explanation of it. There's like in three, four lines, there's like four or five double the same. This, and the Rebbe has a whole biur how each led the two double the same correspond to . The whole darash about it.

08:45 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

08:45 Speaker 1 So I'll just say that. I'll say there's like a biur. What I just said just now, the same in that, that sentence.

08:48 Speaker 2 Right.

08:48 Speaker 1 But how exactly each one fits to the other one, that's not, I'm not gonna spend time on that.

08:51 Speaker 2 Right. It's, uh, in general, I think it's, it's, uh, I, I, I feel like the system should be, if, if possible, that you, uh, you learn Tanya once, like, like what you're describing, and then you learn over the same perakim with even the same year, theoretically, if, you know, this is already a timing thing. But if possible to, you could learn the perakim once like this, and then learn it again with the, the iyukim. But even if, even if that doesn't work out, because let's say you're going through Tanya, you know, once, I'll say there, and, uh, that covers two or three years of mesivta. Uh, this is a new, this is a new, uh, point, but, uh, I mean, you now Postul also has Zal. For a few years they've had a Zal.

09:28 Speaker 1 Yes.

09:28 Speaker 2 Or on and off.

09:29 Speaker 1 I don't know.

09:30 Speaker 2 But, uh, the, w- when there was a Zal, I'm assuming you were also part of that, like, I mean-

09:34 Speaker 1 I taught, but I didn't teach Tanya over there. I didn't-

09:36 Speaker 2 But you were-

09:36 Speaker 1 I was teaching also

09:37 Speaker 2 ... part of the Zal.

09:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

09:38 Speaker 2 So what, what's your thoughts about Zal's learning Tanya?

09:41 Speaker 1 So there's a famous story in Lubavitch with, uh, what's the name? Simpson, Gershon Simpson, Eliyahu's brother.

09:46 Speaker 2 That they had a shiur every day with a perekh, right? And he-

09:49 Speaker 1 Yeah

09:49 Speaker 2 ... yeah.

09:49 Speaker 1 And he wasn't feeling well, so his doctor told him he has to go for a walk every day.

09:52 Speaker 2 Right.

09:53 Speaker 1 So he figured the Tanya already heard a couple of times. Says, "I'll just switch that, and then I'll, uh, take a walk at that time."

09:57 Speaker 2 Right.

09:58 Speaker 1 And I forget who. I think Friediker told him, and he has to hear a shiur Tanya like about every day.

10:01 Speaker 2 Right.

10:02 Speaker 1 And, uh, Asher Farber just now was fabreng a huge fat. He was saying that when he was in Montreal, said, "Of all people, Reb Sholom used to give a shiur Tanya," and to go through, also used to go through it. And he said, he said, he said the same stories every time with the same jokes every time with the same . So there's a link to Said Vitor, yeah. I mean, I think Melach too but also Marashti used to teach Tanya also. But they usually don't do it a part of Seder Siddis. It was like the last half hour of the-

10:21 Speaker 2 Before the supper.

10:21 Speaker 1 Of the learning.

10:22 Speaker 2 Right.

10:22 Speaker 1 Yeah.

10:22 Speaker 2 Yeah.

10:22 Speaker 1 So that's, uh, so I, I didn't do it then over here. I just wanted to do it, and I know it's, it's, it's ideal to learn. But the damage is I don't think that the learning of the iyukim is so important and all the biurim of Siddis. The main thing-

10:34 Speaker 2 Even, even if not, even just Chazarah.

10:35 Speaker 1 Chazarah.

10:36 Speaker 2 You finish... You learn Tanya once a mesivta-

10:37 Speaker 1 We learn Chidas

10:38 Speaker 2 ... which how much did you get of it or not, you know, as a sharp bachur.

10:41 Speaker 1 So we learn Chidas, yeah. So it's the Chidas. It's the Chazarah. I, I have also shias to Chazarah in the entire Tanya.

10:46 Speaker 2 Yeah.

10:47 Speaker 1 So I, I give them a binder, a booklet, and I... Whatever. I don't, I, I... Some of them try to keep it for throughout the year. I doubt anybody ever looks back at it, but, uh, it's technically they have the op- op- opportunity to do Chazarah with the-

10:57 Speaker 2 Right

10:57 Speaker 1 ... shias to Chazarah of the whole, of the whole not the whole Tanya, but, uh.

11:00 Speaker 2 Right. I think it's, uh, this is not the, the, the, the podcast should already be named. This is not a chinuch podcast 'cause I end up saying this every time, but it's not a chinuch podcast. We don't have to discuss making curriculum for Zal, but I think it's a kaddai, uh, you know, thing to think about that Zal should, uh, officially learn Tanya over, even if, you know, very, even very much like Girsah. Forget about the iyukim, even to finish it in one year. But the point is that, uh, you learn it once in yeshiva. I don't know if you can rely on every bachur learning Chidas to, that that's their form of Chazarah for Tanya.

11:25 Speaker 1 The same applies to the Chumash again also.

11:27 Speaker 2 Well, yeah.

11:27 Speaker 1 Chumash also have to... I mean, people know what's going on with the Parshas. Ask a regular bachur to tell you what's, what happened in the six days of Creation, what happened every day, they'll know.

11:34 Speaker 2 That, okay, Creation you can't give a raya because it's so-

11:36 Speaker 1 Because it's tight. Yeah. I said it's a dubris. Say, say it off on, on the spot.

11:40 Speaker 2 Yeah.

11:41 Speaker 1 I don't know how I'm doing that day. They, they, they get lost. They're, they're not sure.

11:43 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

11:44 Speaker 1 So everything has to be reviewed all the time. Whatever it, uh... Like you go into the middle of Kollel a lot of times, guys learn Kunta de'Or Sameach. They're starting again from Shar HaKodesh-

11:50 Speaker 2 Right

11:50 Speaker 1 ... 'cause they've done it before.

11:51 Speaker 2 Vechal, that's interesting 'cause Kunta, uh, this is, uh, a, another chapter that Kunta de'Or Sameach was the only Kunta that Rebbe Shapir wrote for Baal Batim officially.

12:00 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

12:00 Speaker 2 The other three are, are for-

12:02 Speaker 1 For Chumash

12:03 Speaker 2 And it's the only one that's learned in Temimim

12:05 Speaker 1 Officially, I mean.

12:06 Speaker 2 That saying is part of Seder.

12:07 Speaker 1 Because that way the Pereg ways a lot of times people do-

12:09 Speaker 2 Yeah, Pereg ways, exactly. Yeah

12:09 Speaker 1 ... for like s- summer or they have to do it for a

12:12 Speaker 2 Yeah

12:12 Speaker 1 ... yeah.

12:12 Speaker 2 So what's, uh, why do you think that, that happened? Both sides.

12:16 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

12:16 Speaker 2 Why Kun- why did Kuntres HaMaayan become so big in Mesivta? And, uh, and also why... I mean, Kuntres Havayda and Kuntres HaTefilah are a little bit hard. I get why-

12:24 Speaker 1 Kuntres HaTefilah at the beginning is hard. It's also not a long curriculum. It's like you're making a whole Kuntres out of it and then-

12:29 Speaker 2 It's not that long

12:30 Speaker 1 ... and a lot of, a lot of people just say learn Pereg, you know, Yadha, Kuntres HaTefilah, and then do make up a Chidushim, and that's all you have to know.

12:35 Speaker 2 Yeah.

12:35 Speaker 1 And then, uh, Kuntres Havayda, yeah, but I think people do learn Kuntres Havayda more.

12:40 Speaker 2 I'm saying in Yeshiva as part of... I'm saying-

12:42 Speaker 1 No, no, not, not so much practical-

12:43 Speaker 2 No, I know. I'm talking about the Yeshiva should... The Rebbe already wrote these for Temimim.

12:45 Speaker 1 There's only two hours a day to teach citizen Mesivta, and you have to learn-

12:48 Speaker 2 Okay

12:48 Speaker 1 ... Tefilah. What are you gonna choose already?

12:49 Speaker 2 Right.

12:49 Speaker 1 So the Kuntres HaTefilah was always chosen to be with Mamad Melukta.

12:52 Speaker 2 Right.

12:52 Speaker 1 But they have from the... Then you have the, the Tanya, obviously, and then you have to find something else. So I think Kuntres HaMaayan is a lot more, gives a lot more information, a lot more background, a lot more different things about, you know, the There's a lot more going on over there, even more of a room. There you go. There is more body, more and other stuff, so you have to... You know, it's, I don't think there's, there isn't enough time.

13:11 Speaker 2 What do you, what do you think about the Rebbe's Mamar Mesivta? Do you... Why, how do they teach it there?

13:16 Speaker 1 Um, the Rebbe's Mamar is like Homash, you know? You can learn Homash, learn it, and he understands it perfectly, and then as he gets older, "What did I think? Why, why, how did I understand it last year?" And then every year you'll see more and more.

13:25 Speaker 2 Right.

13:25 Speaker 1 So no, we don't teach it, but at least from Shabbos they'll, they'll learn it sometimes.

13:28 Speaker 2 Right.

13:28 Speaker 1 The Shabbos Mamar and then ever since the Rebbe would ask on their own what to learn, you know, in their private time. So we'll learn that also.

13:34 Speaker 2 Right.

13:34 Speaker 1 Once in a while there's a break in between Zohar and Sichot, uh, at the Fabregin guys don't show up, so we'll just make a, a Sicha or Mamar or something like that.

13:41 Speaker 2 Right. I wanna go back to what you mentioned about Tanya, about the, you know... So, so far this has been uh, uh, uh, what do you call it? A study on, on post Mesivta, you know? But, um, I wanna talk about what you said about the, uh, during the teaching Tanya about making it, uh, Geshmak and, and, uh, giving Meshulam and, you know, the-

14:03 Speaker 1 It's all the time. That's what I try to do. I try to make it realistic. I try to... This is, I have even a Chulum to write a book about, uh, what, uh, the, the Alter Rebbe starts off that he has in Tanya, "Shubas Al Kol Hashailos." All the answers to all the questions. So Bachur have tons of questions. Where are the answers to their questions? So I, I try to do that all the time. Whenever there's a question, whenever I think that I can see an answer for a question in Tanya, I mean, it's better to cover through Lamed Heh. That's the easiest.

14:24 Speaker 2 Right.

14:25 Speaker 1 That's Mamish, open, open questions and answers. But the other Bachur also, a lot of time it talks about different things, about, uh, Limud HaTorah, about the Rebbe, about there's different things or questions that come up in a person's life. So we'll talk about that. And also try to bring examples of other things to make it, uh-

14:38 Speaker 2 One second

14:38 Speaker 1 ... sure.

14:38 Speaker 2 What do you mean, what do you mean that, that where's the answers to all the questions a Bachur might have? I mean, these, these... You're looking for questions a Bachur actually ask you or from, from your experience that you know these are questions a Bachur might have?

14:47 Speaker 1 Both, both. A Bachur asked me a couple of days ago, "Hashem wants us to be robots." Like, we'll find the answer for that in Tanya. Which we're pretty sure it talks about that, but we're gonna answer for that.

14:55 Speaker 2 What was the question?

14:56 Speaker 1 Hashem wants me, wants me to be a robot.

14:58 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

14:58 Speaker 1 Is that what Hashem wants me?

14:59 Speaker 2 It's a statement.

14:59 Speaker 1 Just to do things, just to do mitzvahs or whatever, like, what's the point? Uh, uh, the, the question a Bachur asked, "Hashem wants me to be a robot?" I mean-

15:05 Speaker 2 It's a statement.

15:06 Speaker 1 Yes.

15:06 Speaker 2 What's the question?

15:06 Speaker 1 He's, he's asking, is that, is that so? I don't, I don't wanna be a robot.

15:09 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

15:09 Speaker 1 Is, is that what Hashem wants from Chalom? Is that... So where, where do you find the answer for that in Tanya?

15:14 Speaker 2 Well, I mean, first of all, it's Bechir Chashes. It's before, it's pre-Tanya.

15:18 Speaker 1 T- Tanya has the answers to all the questions.

15:19 Speaker 2 Right.

15:20 Speaker 1 And if it is Hashem.

15:21 Speaker 2 Right.

15:21 Speaker 1 So the answer to that, pre-Tanya is Bechir, Bechir Chashes. But what is-

15:23 Speaker 2 The whole... Naturally, such Bachur is-

15:25 Speaker 1 Bachur's question was, "You're asking me just to put on Tefillin, to daven, to keep Shabbos."

15:29 Speaker 2 Right.

15:29 Speaker 1 Like, "I have, I have no feeling. What's, what's the point of that?"

15:30 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

15:31 Speaker 1 So what's the-

15:31 Speaker 2 Ah, no.

15:32 Speaker 1 What?

15:33 Speaker 2 You're saying Mitzvas Maasis versus Kavana. Oh, yes.

15:35 Speaker 1 So then you have to have Lamed Heh.

15:36 Speaker 2 Right.

15:37 Speaker 1 Yes. You have to say-

15:37 Speaker 2 If you have Chitas, there's-

15:38 Speaker 1 ... to find that, right? To bring it over there. Or how come this is a question that how come Chabad, which is seemingly all Bachur from Meidas, we're the most into Mefrusom and doing Pelam Mamish. Like, how does that happen? How, how did that... So that's also Lamed... The Lama, the Lama is also the same idea.

15:51 Speaker 2 Right.

15:52 Speaker 1 So, yeah.

15:54 Speaker 2 What, what about the Ikar, the, like... And it's also an, an interesting, uh, question about the Seder of Tanya. I mean, it's odd Tanya makes sense because you obviously have to start off explaining the, the basics of the natural case, Noshi Bachur, the Mochama, and, uh, the Klipis and Nefesh, et cetera. But in, in, in people's Avoda, it, it's backwards. You know? It resonates... Like, first, first starts the, the, like you said, Lamed Heh are the, are, are much more practical, like, you know, the feelings of a person. Then, you know, backing up to understanding how, how it works with the Klipis and Nefesh and with the natural case, Noshi Bachur.

16:30 Speaker 1 That's first. I'll do it also, yes.

16:31 Speaker 2 I understand. Saying, but people, people will feel... A Bachur, especially a younger Bachur starting to learn Tanya, doesn't feel the questions of that, that Prokam Alufdi Beis, let's say, are coming to discuss.

16:43 Speaker 1 Well, I, I, I don't know. I mean, when I, when I teach the beginning of Tanya-

16:46 Speaker 2 Right

16:46 Speaker 1 ... I always say that the Maadas Chuidan has a story that a guy was in, was, wasn't davening in Shul. So I said, "Why aren't you davening?" He says, "I got stuck on the second word of the Siddur. I don't know what it means. I can't move on." "What's the second word?" "Ani. Mai DeAni. I don't know who I am." So before anything, you have to know who you are, what you are. So that's the beginning of Tanya, to know who you are. And then, you know, the, the first part also, this is like a, a question that I always ask, like, "Are you a Siddur person? Rabbi Wagner, are you a Siddur person?" That's a, that's an uncomfortable question. Like, w- well, a different question, "You put on Tefillin this morning?" "Yeah." "Why, why could you answer that and not the other question?"

17:16 Speaker 2 Right.

17:16 Speaker 1 So, so, so this is the beginning of Tanya.

17:19 Speaker 2 Right.

17:20 Speaker 1 So what's going on over here? And, and why is it that so many Siddur people by Fabregas will bash themselves, "Oh, I'm nothing. I'm nothing," whatever. Like, the people that really mean it, what's going on over here? So, like, what... So that, that's, that's a question that, that people ask. How, what, what am I? How am I looking at myself? So I talk about that. It's, I think it's a very, uh, it's a big question that comes up. Well, a lot of Bachur ask me, "Are you Siddur?" They have to, what does Siddur mean? How do you, how do you measure it and all that? So-

17:40 Speaker 2 Right

17:41 Speaker 1 ... so I think every Bachur has what to talk about, and it's all-

17:44 Speaker 2 So why-

17:44 Speaker 1 I think it's built up very nicely. I don't know if anybody's coming, but I, I, I like to, I like to build it very nicely, and it all fits very well.

17:51 Speaker 2 I, I, I think that I, I would put in, I think the way that you're describing that you teach it, which two things. Number one, that you're doing, let's say, like you said, Alf Lamed Heh in one year.

18:01 Speaker 1 Lamed Heh, yeah.

18:02 Speaker 2 Yeah, in one year, and- So first of all, you, you, you're able to say, "We will discuss this this year in, uh-

18:09 Speaker 1 Yeah, we talk in the-

18:09 Speaker 2 ... in, in the later perakim as opposed to like, "Oh, yeah, next year in, in chav zayin."

18:13 Speaker 1 I, I, I always say which perek we're on in my te- One of the things I do on my tests is I have a draw the line. I look at the

18:18 Speaker 2 You can't use that reference anymore. Yeah.

18:24 Speaker 1 Yeah, but I would tell... Well, of course, someone just gave me a, a name. A hundred long questions a bachur might ask answered by Tanya. I try to go through it and then each question and try to see it. And I have a few... I wrote a few articles here and there in the past. I... Well, whatever, I'll, I'll get to it. So my Chabad name is Jonathan Sacks says, someone told him, "If you didn't write a book before the age of 40, then you're not writing a book." So it was, I lost it, but, uh- ... maybe we'll prove him wrong. I mean, he, he himself proved it wrong. I think he wrote his first book after 40. That's what he says.

20:14 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

20:15 Speaker 1 But, uh, that's my idea, to write it and just go. Like, a bachur can ask me questions all the time. I have a Q&A in the yeshiva once a week.

20:21 Speaker 2 Right.

20:21 Speaker 1 So these questions are on many different subjects. So lots of times I'll, I'll answer based on what I think from Tanya.

20:25 Speaker 2 By the way, feel free to plug your, uh, your Q&A.

20:28 Speaker 1 Um, I, I do it for my parents. That's, that's why, that's why I post it. They ask me to post it, so I post it.

20:34 Speaker 2 Like you told me, you just posted on Spot- Spotify, so it's a new, it's a new, uh-

20:37 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's another venue where they can get it.

20:38 Speaker 2 Right.

20:38 Speaker 1 It's easier for them to access it.

20:39 Speaker 2 Tell the, tell the crowd. What's it called?

20:41 Speaker 1 I don't know. Q&A with Rabbi Levinson.

20:44 Speaker 2 Easy to find.

20:46 Speaker 1 Huh? Yeah.

20:47 Speaker 2 Easy to find. Yeah.

20:48 Speaker 1 I think that's how. I just... I don't know. I don't know if I got what I called it. No, nothing.

20:52 Speaker 2 Right. Okay. So the, the, the, the... What I always like, uh, discussing in these kind of conversations, I usually end up sitting with mashpiyim. But this is not a podcast, uh, only for bachurim. And, um, maybe, maybe bechal question how, how bachurim are watching this, but, uh, we all know the answer. But, um, how... Th-this same discussion, what I find is that people who teach in yeshiva, even though they're only teaching bachurim, they're, they're connecting to Chassidus in a very real way, in a very powerful way that should be available for, for anyone. Meaning, let's just say simply Balabat, meaning people in their own life. Um, people in their own life that are learning, sitting down learning a Maamar Chassidus in Limud, sitting down learning a Maamar as much as they can, you know, uh, Kvitzitim and Chassidus. But, you know, there's the Limud and learning it and, uh, amassing information, which is a mitzvah, and it's, and it's beautiful. But then there's, of course, connecting to Chassidus and really understanding and, and, and taking away the message. Most people... I, I think most people learning a Maamar Shabbos morning, they're not looking to, to have a massive inspiration for, to, to change their life or maybe even not to change their davening that Shabbos morning. Most people who are actually... And again, it's, it's koach kavod to, that you actually sit down and learn a Maamar Shabbos morning. You're doing it because that's what, that's what you, that's what a yid does. That's what

22:08 Speaker 2 a Chassid does. You learn a Maamar before davening and c- and especially Shabbos morning. So, and, and you learn it, and you got the... And, you know, it was a geshmake Maamar, whatever it was. And, uh, yeah, you move on, and you daven. And taka, your davening is a little bit more uplifted, and it's... But no one's really like... I, I shouldn't say no one, Chas ve'Shalom. But most people are not, are not, uh, very, um, l- are not very keen on, on trying to find how this Maamar said a message and a mindset to improve, to improve their whole life and to, to, uh, upgrade their, their quality of, uh, how they look at life. Mashpiyim in yeshiva, even though they're dealing with younger bachurim, but that's, that's what their, that's what the description of their job is. If they're doing it right, they're not just teaching Chassidus as a Limud. They're teaching Chassidus and like you said, teaching Tanya and, and, and in the Tanya, showing the, showing the conversations and showing the practical questions and answers. So yeah, a bachur's practical question is not a Balabat's practical question, obviously. But the skill to be able to do that, the mindset to do that, how you're, uh, learning Chassidus and not just to teach it, but also when you're learning Chassidus for yourself. Obviously, you, you... That, that, that's part of the way you do it because, 'cause especially someone with so much experience. So let's say even this book, as a tangible

23:16 Speaker 2 example, this kind of book, right? How m- how much... How relevant would it be for a regular Balabat? What kind of questions are a bachur asking because he's a bachur versus a Balabat asking, like, that a Balabat wouldn't ask? How much... This book that you make... Let me, let me ask the question differently. This book that you make-

23:36 Speaker 1 Bachur writer.

23:37 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. This, uh, ch-

23:39 Speaker 1 After it'll be made, we have the answers.

23:41 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

23:44 Speaker 1 One second.

23:44 Speaker 2 What's your target audience for this book?

23:49 Speaker 1 My target audience for this book is... I, I'll tell you. I just... Recently, someone told me, he teaches in the yeshiva. He told me that he listens to my Q&A, and it helps him how to talk to bachurim, or at least it helps him. He, you know, he takes it in one of his resources as, as, uh, an idea. So I... That was, that was another push for me. Like, wow, if people are... It's, it's an offering. Um, it's, it's the... It's... I, I think a lot of questions will apply to many people. And, uh, and I think the older you are, the more in a way you'll, you might appreciate it more. I mean, it's one of the questions that I... That people ask a lot, bachurim ask a lot. There's, there's a question that adults can ask also, what's the point of learning Gemara? What's the point about Gemara? The Cheydah, you know, let's say it's not Halacha, it's not Chassidus. Halacha, Chassidus. So, so what's the answer to that? Why, what's the point of Gemara in Tanya?

24:35 Speaker 2 Perkei Avot.

24:36 Speaker 1 Huh?

24:36 Speaker 2 Perkei Avot.

24:37 Speaker 1 Perkei. So what the... But the goof is over. And what I tell the bachurim always is, is that, is that what's the point of putting on tefillin? Like, we have this notion that when we learn information, information has to be in order to do something with it. You don't just learn information. But really, when it comes to Torah, Hashem said to learn Torah. That's what you're doing. Just like you have to put on tefillin. There's no point in tefillin. This is the mitzvah. So that, that's like a whole mindset, a whole difference.

25:00 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

25:00 Speaker 1 So I think this, this, uh, this like a grace, a grace, a grace, but this, this nekuda, if you tell it to an adult also, that learning Torah is not just about what you're gonna gain from it. In today, there's like this Semichas Chaver. You have all these different organizations like Machon Mamadum. You get a degree, you get something at the end of it, which is very good and gives a, give a highs, whatever. But you're learning Torah 'cause Hashem wants them to learn. That's it. You learn Torah 'cause Hashem said so. It's, uh, just like you put on tefillin, to learn Torah. It's another mitzvah. And not only that, it's much, much, much better. First of all, you connect Hashem only b'chvas makif, and Torah is previous and makif. So that's like a w- I'll try to word it in a words for bachurim, but I think everyone can, uh-

25:32 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm

25:32 Speaker 1 ... can a- a- appreciate such a, a derah, even though I'm sure many people have that already. A lot of times it's just refreshing things that people know already, I would assume.

25:38 Speaker 3 Right. So in other words, even though your, uh, your Q&A is for bachurim and the, the questions might be worded in a way that's for a bachur, you're saying the, practically, the, not just the, the, the information in the question and answer, but even the style of the question and answer, you're saying could be, could be appreciated for everyone.

25:55 Speaker 1 Yeah.

25:55 Speaker 3 All right.

25:56 Speaker 1 'Cause, uh, another question bachurim always ask, "What's worse? Do you have goyische music or movies?" So I always answer, "What's worse? To cut off your arm or cut off your leg?" Uh, like as, as like, I'm sure doing one. Which am I gonna do? So you look at it the same way. So again, it's like there's things over the years that there's lines that came out that, uh, mattim that people liked and I said, "Ta- ta- ta- ta- uh, uh, that's just..." And I can say an eye-opener, uh, Tzvi Freeman said once, which I disagree with, he said, "Every shiur chassidus you have to walk away with like a whole mind new approach." I met, I mean, it's not true. How many words a year do you have? I mean, maybe he has.

26:25 Speaker 3 Yeah.

26:25 Speaker 1 But, uh, maybe it's not in most of his articles, not go walk you away. But when you give a shiur, I mean, you give a shiur every day.

26:30 Speaker 3 Yeah.

26:30 Speaker 1 Every single shiur is gonna make a whole life-changing, uh, approach to it.

26:33 Speaker 3 Right.

26:33 Speaker 1 Whatever. It's that how you share something and you hear it again and again. And also what you were saying before about, about what's learning a Lamed Vov chassidus. There has to be a change every day? I think it's not such a big deal if you learn to the Meimar and to either you get... He's, he's, he's, he's, he's in a mood of, uh, talking about the Malchum Savch Malchum and that's, and, and that's good advisor.

26:48 Speaker 3 Right. No, 100%. And, and like you said, it's not practical to change your life every day. Like, then, then you should see someone for that. But, but, uh, th- it's, it's not about changing your life. It's about, like, did I just learn a question and answer on the Parsha, or did I just learn a vort in h- in, in, in, in getting to know Hashem better?

27:08 Speaker 1 A lot of people are not so deep and ph- sophisticated. That's, I think it's gr- it's like, uh, another question a bachurim ask, which is, I, I hadn't found the Tanya, but this is the answer that was always answered. Like, bachurim feel not... I mean, true that it is ... but a little bit different. It's, it's like I don't see any growth. I don't see that I'm changing. Bachurim, people ask that all the time. So the answer is when you physically... You know, when you grow from being th- this tall to this tall, it's a gradual thing. It's over time. Every day you live your life, you eat, you drink, and you get taller. That's how, that's the navé de Hashem. So every Shabbati to learn a Meimar and it's all, you're, you're, you're... Yeah, and I... Uh, you have to try to take from every Meimar and there's, there is an inyan that the HaMod Rebbe says, "Just learn chassidus Bishul for you. Just learn ma'adot things that don't make sense to you."

27:42 Speaker 3 Right.

27:42 Speaker 1 And learn to learn, and that's an inyan also. I think it's... A lot depends on the type of person. There are people that are very analyzing, thinking in everything. After... And these people, they take chassidus in their kind of way. And are, I mean, like the Rebbe's mamarim. Some, some bachurim learn a Meimar, it talks about this madrigas and the Ish Laimar, the Ish Laimar, they go further. What's the Ish Laimar? What's, uh, every Ish Laimar says.

28:00 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

28:00 Speaker 1 What's Rebbe said before, what's saying now, like Magasher. Uh, they learn and they enjoy. They love talking about the Rinzei and these things. They don't... As much as they understand it, they don't understand it, which no one understands it. But whatever, we do the best we can, and it's good enough for them. And not everyone has to be so deep and sophisticated and clear and try to analyze and philosophize. It's, uh, the people that like that. So these people have their... So they'll, they could do it on, on their own Shabbos morning or whenever they have to learn chassidus. And the people that are not like that, they're not gonna do it anyway. So the book is like it's me. I'm m- I'm more like not so sophisticated and philosophizing. I'm like more beseder, call beseder, call the rem. It's like it's beseder. So it's, uh, my book will be the same for s- s- similar style of people.

28:35 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

28:36 Speaker 1 They say it's shluchim that they attract to their Chabad houses, people that are similar to them, right? It's a lot of shluchim. It's a very humbling, humbling thought. To look around and there is Chabad. So, I mean, yeshiva maybe it's the same thing. You have listeners. Some might be people that are like-minded. I could just hear, I could learn, get it here, whatever. Just interesting things. And it's, uh, maybe it'll inspire a person. I don't know if that's the point so much. Maybe a little bit also.

28:56 Speaker 3 How are you setting up the book? Like what order? That based on the a- like the-

29:01 Speaker 1 So I, I had, uh, different ideas. I mean, the order where my plan will be is a question on every perek, meaning not a question, an answer from every perek.

29:08 Speaker 3 Right. So you're gonna go in the order of Tanya based on the answers.

29:10 Speaker 1 That, that would be my goal.

29:11 Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

29:11 Speaker 1 Every, every perek has a question that there's an answer for, and how this perek gives, gives answer to that question. I don't know if I have mamish an answer from every perek that's for a specific question.

29:19 Speaker 3 You're gonna try to do it like that?

29:21 Speaker 1 I'm, I'm not gonna try to, you know, to learn from the-

29:24 Speaker 3 Force, force the-

29:24 Speaker 1 ... the other nozzle, like what he said, that the, the Bachayim Brisker said the other nozzle is the busy Buddhist.

29:29 Speaker 3 I don't know that.

29:29 Speaker 1 The Bachayim busy Buddhist.

29:31 Speaker 3 Yeah.

29:31 Speaker 1 They asked that, "Reb Chaim Brisker, how come you're safe and around by everybody learns?" And the other nozzle, whatever, you know, they're not so much. So he said as a Bachayim is, uh, is busy Bu- is, well, so Bachayim busy Buddhist and he's not gonna be this. When you owe somebody money, so if you don't cause them damage, you have to-

29:46 Speaker 3 Bachayim business.

29:47 Speaker 1 Huh?

29:47 Speaker 3 Bachayim business. Ish is business.

29:49 Speaker 1 So when it, when you're stuck, I think Bachayim is also busy Buddhist sometime.

29:52 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

29:52 Speaker 1 No, I mean, even our titles is a Buddhist 'cause whatever the Bachayim is answer.

29:55 Speaker 3 Right, right, right, right, right.

29:55 Speaker 1 So he said that, that the other no- other nozzle, he think he has a chove to financial every Ramba.

30:01 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

30:01 Speaker 1 No matter what, every Kashi, he must answer.

30:02 Speaker 3 Yeah.

30:02 Speaker 1 So Bachayim is a busy Buddhist.

30:04 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

30:05 Speaker 1 And me, he's not gonna consider. But like I have to have. But that's, uh, I give the best what I learn. I don't feel an achrayus to answer.

30:09 Speaker 3 Right.

30:09 Speaker 1 So I'm not gonna try to kavesh to find new questions and new answers. I mean, uh, you know, I'm teaching Tanya a lot of times as we're teaching, like the things come up and then we realize that that's what I'm gonna take from the shiur that I have and then put, put that into the, into the, into, into the book, if it will happen. I mean, it's okay if it's established anyway.

30:24 Speaker 3 Yeah.

30:24 Speaker 1 It's far from it, but, uh, who knows?

30:26 Speaker 3 Yeah.

30:26 Speaker 1 Maybe one day.

30:27 Speaker 3 It's, uh, now, uh, no one knows what's gonna happen, uh, in the future, but now this has talked a very, uh, big c- uh, topic people talk about, about how Tanya has all the answers to all questions, and now would be a very good time to do it.

30:39 Speaker 1 It is chassidus. Every, every year, the, the, the five-tenths from come out on Tanya, mainly in Hebrew, but there's sort of Tanya-

30:44 Speaker 3 Right

30:44 Speaker 1 ... Konga Galorus. So everybody... Um, I haven't seen this particular myself.

30:46 Speaker 3 I think most are, most are... I mean, now I think there's a, yeah, there's a new Kochin m- m- writing s- books or, you know, life books or whatever based on Tanya.

30:54 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

30:54 Speaker 3 But most from there coming on Tanya are coming out to ex- on Tanya, I mean, to explain actual Tanya, not necessarily this nekuda.

31:00 Speaker 1 Then you have the philosophers, the psychologists that, uh, they use their psychology and they merge it with Tanya as well.

31:04 Speaker 3 Fine. But I'm saying, but even the books that are coming out on Tanya directly

31:07 Speaker 1 It's more to explain, yeah.

31:08 Speaker 3 Right.

31:08 Speaker 1 It's more to explain.

31:08 Speaker 3 So, so to do something like this, which is to take a person to be able to take kind of-

31:13 Speaker 1 It's more a question-answer format

31:14 Speaker 3 ... apply it. Right, yeah.

31:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's, uh, that's the... My love, they've got the

31:15 Speaker 3 Right

34:01 Speaker 1 ...

35:36 Speaker 3 When, when, uh, I'm curious, when you teach Tanya, when you teach Perkei Avot, and it right away says, "Le'over v'le'yaver," right?

35:41 Speaker 1 You must say that it was beer.

35:42 Speaker 3 Uh, no, I know that.

35:43 Speaker 1 It's traditional.

35:43 Speaker 3 But you, do you explain it right away on the spot? Do you-

35:46 Speaker 1 Yeah, I, I, I learned, I teach, uh, like Rebbe, Rebbe was in his classes-

35:49 Speaker 3 Yeah

35:49 Speaker 1 ... when he would teach, always he would say everything about that then read inside.

35:51 Speaker 3 Right.

35:52 Speaker 1 So I would explain about that before I get to it.

35:54 Speaker 3 Oh, so-

35:54 Speaker 1 Before I get to it, I explain-

35:55 Speaker 3 Right, so in, in the beginning, when, before you start teaching Perkei Avot-

35:57 Speaker 1 Yeah

35:57 Speaker 3 ... before you already explained-

35:58 Speaker 1 Yeah, oh

35:58 Speaker 3 ... the disclaimer-

35:59 Speaker 1 Yeah

35:59 Speaker 3 ... the RSB or-

36:00 Speaker 1 I'll, I'll say it as a question and answer.

36:02 Speaker 3 Yeah, of course.

36:02 Speaker 1 Here we have an issue, whatever. Yeah.

36:03 Speaker 3 And which beer do you say?

36:05 Speaker 1 It's, it's the way he is currently right now. Like a Bach in Yeshiva. There's this Bach. You would imagine, you know, what he was last year. No one know what he was last year. But now he's... No, no one imagined last year he was like the way he is now.

36:13 Speaker 3 The classic beer, the one that's throughout the-

36:15 Speaker 1 The Bach that's now the serious Bach. It's one, one, one, one, one all night.

36:17 Speaker 3 I'm asking, um, I mean, I'm not... I don't wanna... I don't... We don't need to get into it. It's not a share. But, uh, changes to Maimon, Chay Sar, Am Hem Hey, where the Rebbe says, uh, in, in Likkutei that the Rebbe says about... The Rebbe asks on that basic beer about, uh... Because the Russian is Le'over v'le'yaver, and it's Mashma literally. Rebbe has a whole thing about Tshuva Mi'avah, that it's, that it's argument philosophi, that according-

36:41 Speaker 1 I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna go into it.

36:43 Speaker 3 So the classic beer-

36:43 Speaker 1 Let's observe

36:44 Speaker 3 ... the one that's in most letters of the Rebbe's letters-

36:45 Speaker 1 The way you are right now, you can't see yourself.

36:47 Speaker 3 Right. So prac-

36:47 Speaker 1 The concept

36:47 Speaker 3 ... Bach asks you, "Oh, I didn't Avera, so I can't be a Benini."

36:51 Speaker 1 Um, yeah, that's a mistake that, that, that-

36:53 Speaker 3 Right. So how do you-

36:53 Speaker 1 That, that, no one comes with that question. They're just more like, "Okay, I'm involved in these things. I can't involve the Chassidishe guy." So that's, uh-

36:59 Speaker 3 Fine, that's a different thing.

36:59 Speaker 1 Right.

37:00 Speaker 3 'Cause that's, that's talking about currently.

37:00 Speaker 1 But no one's, no, uh, uh, no one has a goal to be a Benini. No one's like-

37:04 Speaker 3 Oh

37:04 Speaker 1 ... that's of peoples that they wanna do. They just, uh... Well, I teach you the concept, that you could be a Benini.

37:08 Speaker 3 One second. Isn't that a problem, Hagdufa?

37:11 Speaker 1 No, 'cause we're not looking for goals. Our goal in life is not to have a goal.

37:15 Speaker 3 Oh.

37:15 Speaker 1 Our goal in life is the present, the service of right now.

37:17 Speaker 3 Oh, so that's... Uh-huh, so that goes back to practical Zion.

37:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. That's-

37:19 Speaker 3 So in other words, the buffer's coming and saying-

37:21 Speaker 1 Which is-

37:21 Speaker 3 So how do I avoid the-

37:22 Speaker 1 If, if, if, if I'm gonna plug something-

37:23 Speaker 3 Yeah

37:23 Speaker 1 ... can I plug something else?

37:23 Speaker 3 Yeah, sure.

37:24 Speaker 1 I could plug. So years ago, Bachman asked me, "What's the practical lesson from the for Rabbi Akiva versus Avraham Avinu?" The difference is, Rabbi Akiva wanted to be a Shliach. Avraham Avinu didn't mind going to business.

37:37 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

37:38 Speaker 1 That's, that's the... Rabbi Akiva wanted to be a Shliach. He wanted Abba Seder's Nevish. He wanted to have that Madrega. He wanted that title. "Oh, I'm official Shliach." Avraham Avinu didn't care. He wanted to offer Tzadok and Yonas, that's what he had to do. See, he had a home in a restaurant, that's what he did. The restaurant, and he sold and he made money. It was very bus- succ- successful. And at, a- a- on the side, or m- that was his main thing, he was teaching the whole time. But this goal that I have to be a title, I have to reach a certain level, that's something which is foreign to us. Like, it's, it's mamish like the Beit HaMidrash, if they become a Gadol. Someone else have to become a Shliach. If, if you... Is to take out a, a, a rant that someone makes on the Midrash and Gadol and switch the word Gadol for Shliach, it's the exact same rant. "Ooh, I wanna be a Gadol. I wanna be, I wanna be a Shliach. Oh, I made it in life, I'm a Shliach." It's mamish the same, it's the same, it's the same thing. And, and so Rabbi Akiva didn't... Ki- so I, I, I mamish that. I, I, I tell this, you were actually at King's Tale a few years ago, I said it. The Ch Red Akiva is the Baal Mesirut Nefesh. He was like the real Mesirut Nefesh. Ha'y talking that he was the, he wanted, he did it

38:27 Speaker 1 in a lesser way than Avraham Avinu.

38:28 Speaker 3 Right.

38:29 Speaker 1 He could this. So yes, Loima, it's on the ruch, uh, Reuben from oben, he says, "But the Rabbi Yochanan Kitma, ."

38:36 Speaker 3 Yeah.

38:36 Speaker 1 And they asked me for a half and he said, "I'm not going back home today."

38:38 Speaker 3 So the end of the story. Uh-

38:39 Speaker 1 So what does he say?

38:40 Speaker 3 Yeah.

38:41 Speaker 1 He went. For sure he went to teach them, but it's not for the money.

38:43 Speaker 3 Right.

38:43 Speaker 1 So Avraham, so Rabbi Akiva, he had Mesirut Nefesh to have Mesirut Nefesh. That's when Rabbi Akiva was Avraham Avinu's Madrega. He thought had Mesirut Nefesh, he wasn't a very... He wasn't looking to be a Shliach, but he, to bring out the point, he had to show that there's such a Madrega called that you want to have Mesirut Nefesh. And that's give Yakov had Mesirut Nefesh to show what the, the Samakach China, whatever, no?

38:59 Speaker 3 Yeah.

38:59 Speaker 1 Very nice.

39:00 Speaker 3 I was just, I just was learning a Maimer, um, about the Israel Havhes. Look at Hey. So I, I mean, whatever. I think, I think it's a little bit of a Chiddush in that Maimer. Rabbi explains that there's a difference between... Rabbi asks why he doesn't talk about Bechal Mid- Meodcha or Meodchem in Vayimshmaya. And based on the flow of the Maimer, if anything, Dafke in Vayimshmaya should talk about Mesirut Nefesh. And Rabbi explains that when it talks about Bechal Medech on Shema, it's Ve- La- Vehavta Selach Bechal Medech. It's the Mesirut Nefesh. We always know that Bechal Medech is Mesirut Nefesh. It's, it's Mesirut Nefesh that's part of Avah, which means that it's a seer of Mesirut Nefesh. It's a specific title or tag of Mesirut Nefesh. In Vayimshmaya, where ta, um, the Rabbi to connects it with what it says in Tanya about that, um, the, the asaid of Taryah Mitzvot Perchefed. The asaid of Taryah Mitzvot is Lizkor in, in, um, Mesirut Nefesh, Chamet Bechal Yoim, whatever the exact lashon is. So, so in, in Vayimshmaya, where he, he says, "Yishameru Lahem Penist HaLevavchem," where Moshe is practically commanding them to g- to, to, to n- not be Aveirah on Aveirot and to do Mitzvot. So the Rabbi says that is Mesirut Nefesh, but it's not the title of Mesirut Nefesh. It's not the, it's not the, it's not called Mesirut Nefesh. It's called Kim Taryah Mitzvot. But of course, it's Mesirut Nefesh.

40:06 Speaker 1 Right.

40:06 Speaker 3 So, uh, I, I was learning it. I was like, uh, it sounded like a interesting, um, a little bit of a Chiddush, I think. That, yeah, that there's Mesirut Ne- exactly what we're talking about. That there's Mesirut Nefesh as Mesirut Nefesh, and there's Mesirut Nefesh as a, as a default. So tying it back, so you're saying that, that if a buffer has a... Or, or whatever. Again, if any, if anyone has the goal of, uh, we're talking about a Benini, of being a Benini, so then it, hugur for that might be the challenge. That hugur for that might be the problem. Don't try to be a Benini. Just, just live life and-

40:34 Speaker 1 Service God

40:35 Speaker 3 ... you know-

40:35 Speaker 1 Right now, go on

40:36 Speaker 3 ... design, call it Ketria, et cetera. Uh-huh, very nice. Okay. So, so the, so the, so the reason why I asked you that was... Okay, so the, the, the, so that's when you teach Perked Beis. That's where a lot of people have a inherent problem. And of course, in Achai Nami over there... Uh, you were saying about that you learned Tanya, uh, with, with teachers who have the, who have all the, the disclaimers. So first of all, that's, that's a big question that, uh, that I always have with this. I discussed this in a previous thing with, uh, Rabbi Silverberg, about, um, why the Alter Rebbe tactor wrote, wrote it like that. That the Benini is, uh, LeOver, LeOver, and then we need all the Biorim. So, so far we, I didn't, I, I haven't heard, uh, an answer. I don't know if you-

41:14 Speaker 1 I don't, I don't see the question. This is what he means. I mean, I, I tell about, uh-

41:19 Speaker 3 You need those Biorim. When it comes to LeOver, uh, to that-

41:21 Speaker 1 You want, you wanna bring out a point. You want to s- tell the person, what does a Benini mean? You reach such a level that you're not Shaiach to do, do this kind of stuff. You, you reach-

41:28 Speaker 3 But it's not how Alter Rebbe says it.

41:30 Speaker 1 You're in such a way-

41:31 Speaker 3 He'll say it like that

41:31 Speaker 1 ... that someone looks at you, couldn't imagine that you were Shaiach to such things.

41:34 Speaker 3 He still doesn't say it.

41:35 Speaker 1 Okay, fine.

41:35 Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah.

41:35 Speaker 1 That he, he, he says different words, but that's, that's the title. Okay, here you go.

41:38 Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, fine. Uh-

41:39 Speaker 1 He could've said differently, but then you can ask that question on the whole title. Why is there the-

41:42 Speaker 3 Oh. So it-

41:43 Speaker 1 Every time it says Psukim, you say this is a-

41:44 Speaker 3 I know, but here it was written to be called Jewish, local Shailas. It's a little bit different. When you write a Sefer and you write exactly-

41:49 Speaker 1 Now the Rebbe's relying on the Misbiorim. Now the Rebbe writes in Dagdom. In, in Dagdom-

41:53 Speaker 3 Oh

41:53 Speaker 1 ... he has a problem. He said, "Oh, you can't figure it out unless you go to, to the Rashbim."

41:56 Speaker 3 Right.

41:56 Speaker 1 Right? So you have big people are themselves are the Hasheich Es Alochim, a Bubolim. They can't figure out-

42:00 Speaker 3 Right

42:00 Speaker 1 ... what it says. So you have to have someone to explain it to you.

42:02 Speaker 3 Okay, so that's a very good answer. So here's, you can see that the Alter Rebbe Dafke wrote something big-

42:05 Speaker 1 And then, and then you said there's the other Bior. You said, "Hey, sort of, the, the..." Said, "LeOver, there's other-"

42:09 Speaker 3 Yeah.

42:09 Speaker 1 So everything in Tanya has layers and layers.

42:11 Speaker 3 Right, fine.

42:11 Speaker 1 So he wants the, he, he wants the Biorim.

42:12 Speaker 3 This is, this is very basic. This is every person who learns Tanya. I said it in the, in the, in... When I spoke to, with, uh, head, with Rabbi, uh, Felix Silverberg. Said I learned Tanya with, uh, with a guy from Williamsburg a few years ago. Uh, we learned every morning. We did it mamish from, from Rosh Hashanah, from after Succot to Shavuot. The entire five part- the entire Tanya. All five parts. Girsah.

42:32 Speaker 1 Girsah.

42:32 Speaker 3 Um-

42:33 Speaker 1 I know.

42:33 Speaker 3 Yeah. It was-

42:34 Speaker 1 He's quicker than me.

42:35 Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it was a... And I, I was saying then that, uh, it was such an amazing experience for me. I said every Lubavitcher needs to do this. Some days we would learn three Perkim in one day, and you see the flow in such a way that you never saw before. Like, you see, like, partially what the Alter Rebbe's trying to say. Like, you know. And, um-

42:48 Speaker 1 So with him, you got the Perked Beis, and he was wondering.

42:50 Speaker 3 So s- so I, obviously, I gave him the Biorim, and he asked me a question. He said, he said, "Why does Alter Rebbe write that?" Like, what, what... Like, you know, nothing, uh, no, we d- every now and then, mamish, rarely, we would stop for a beer because he wasn't looking for the Biorim. He was looking partially to learn Tanya, to read in titsh. So, uh, so this was something we had to stop, and he asked me, he's like, "Why Alter Rebbe just write that?" You know, I made a whole big deal. It's a famous question. Eh, eh. He's like What's going on? Why did Alter write that? And I, I said, you know, "I don't know." And, uh, so that's, that's, that's a question that I always, uh, bring up to different, uh, Mashpiyim, different people.

43:21 Speaker 1 Looking for better answers.

43:22 Speaker 3 But I, I like what you're saying. You're saying that the, that the Alter Rebbe befe'er wrote that you need to speak to Mashpiyim, so we could say that the Alter Rebbe wrote something even very intentionally with the f- with the l- Alter Rebbe, what we explained about Torah Shebe'al Peh, Torah Shebe'al Peh, that, that, you know, that, uh, why Torah Shebe'al Peh couldn't be written down for, you know, uh, mid... Originally-

43:39 Speaker 1 You wanna be makbol habriyut.

43:40 Speaker 3 Yes. You, you, you need to have a Mashpia, you need to have a teacher, you need, you need to have the Mashpia-

43:44 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

43:44 Speaker 3 ... teaching you Tanya with the, with all the disclaimers, with all the demons. Um, the... Uh, uh, another, another nekuda I think about... Oh, going back, we were, this is where we were talking, this is where I came up. The, so there's this balance between Perikos Ayn mindset, Perikos Ayn style of b'chol dechir dechir, of, um, that you need to act on the here and now, and Avodah Shehem is, uh, is not a, it's not a contest, it's not a thing. The, um... I, I recently saw in, uh... I don't know, it was the Ami maybe, whatever. They were quote, they were quoting from, uh, a chassidus. I can't remember now. It was one of the, one of the Rebbes these days. He said, um, that it was, like, when COVID started, so someone, someone came to him about the, you know-

44:32 Speaker 1 Mikvah.

44:32 Speaker 3 What?

44:32 Speaker 1 Mikvah.

44:33 Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah. You saw it?

44:34 Speaker 1 I saw it, um, in Mishnas HaKodesh.

44:35 Speaker 3 Uh-huh. So I just saw it recently. They did a-

44:37 Speaker 1 Maybe Mishnas HaKodesh work for the work, work-

44:38 Speaker 3 The Guinness. Yeah, exactly. He said, "I never missed a day of mikvah. That's why the, uh, Hashem doesn't work for the Guinness," uh-

44:43 Speaker 1 Yeah, but I, I said that's one of those ones.

44:45 Speaker 3 Yeah, it's a great line.

44:46 Speaker 1 Yeah.

44:46 Speaker 3 It's a, it's a very true line that, uh-

44:48 Speaker 1 Same, same idea

44:48 Speaker 3 ... it's not your, it's not your accomplishments. It's not your-

44:50 Speaker 1 It's not about getting a w- a trophy, getting an award. It's, it's about-

44:53 Speaker 3 Right

44:53 Speaker 1 ... a thing you have to do the whole time.

44:54 Speaker 3 Right.

44:54 Speaker 1 I think it's the same message, that left, I must have left on. I heard once from, I think from Rashab Fraker, she said... I think it was him, that he spoke to an older guy that in the, in the youths, when the Bachurim, you know, would be in the chidush a lot more often. So, so someone told him that he was like he was struggling. And the Rebbe kept telling him, "Well, kind of try, try again. Like to try again and see a week streak, a month streak, a two, two-month streak." I don't know, that's not those words, but that was the take. And then he pushed him also to get married. And the Rebbe said, "Push further, push further."

45:20 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

45:20 Speaker 1 That was, that was that. This is hard. We try. It's a struggle. Some people, they get, they get, they get a grip of themselves, and that's it. They make a, make a, y- yes, news. It's, uh, it's, uh, So Nevz is a story. Either So Nevz or Shlomo Chaim. I heard always about So Nevz, then I recently Shamas about Shlomo Chaim, that he said that what, what was the change in his life? That there was one Friday night, a winter Friday night, there was a long session of chidush, and he was thirsty. He wanted a drink. How to drink after Maariv, but he wanted a drink anyway. There's no look. He went to the sink. He poured himself a cup. Ah. Fire at the Kaddish. Now go back. Thirsty after 12 o'clock this day. Went back, back and forth, back and forth, till finally Amor said, "Nein," and that was it. Like, one time he said no, and that no, that's, uh, that's related with him, and then it stuck with him. Or, or learning Chitas. How many people made a Chata learn Chitas the first time, and they learn Chitas for the next 20, 10, 20, 30 years? Most Bachurim start with this. Make a Chata for a Mitzvah, for whatever, a week, a month, a camp, whatever, and then it stops. And well, mention the Chata sticks. So you do the same thing over here. You try, try, eventually make a Chata, and it sticks with you, and you go right through. And

46:15 Speaker 1 if you miss Chitas after the two years of saying it every day, you miss one night Seuder. So you continue saying it. So the same thing. So Seuderah, the same idea. Naftali, you do your best you can to stay with it. You slip, then you go right through.

46:25 Speaker 3 Right.

46:25 Speaker 1 Like Neil Anius lighted.

46:26 Speaker 3 Yeah. So it's, it's, it's right there very much on this side of, uh, of the-

46:32 Speaker 1 Not being sophisticated and all mitpal self and understanding all the deeps and whatever.

46:36 Speaker 3 And about the here and now.

46:38 Speaker 1 Here and now, yeah.

46:39 Speaker 3 Right.

46:39 Speaker 1 Yeah. Things I do in Tanya all the time is I always try to give examples to show that the things are not abstract, and things are all very negia lemaysah. That's what negia lemaysah, you can find these things in, in world, in the world, which is, um... It's not so much in Aveh, that's more in Askola, just to, to, to learn, to realize that everything that talks about in Tanya is just things that could be understood. So, okay, I, I saw in my encounters once, Dr. Chanuka, I think, when he read one of his, uh, pagishes. So apparently, one, him or some of the scientists were explaining examples of Torah from physics, and the Rebbe was, like, very excited about it. Wanted to hear exactly what they said, all the product. So I think Alter Rebbe said with technology today, I'm constantly trying to give examples of technology about things. I, I make up my own Mishnah because I know technology well either, but what I understand. So if the Dugma come in in Perikos Alef, what the Nefesh Elokis and Sha'aras back and forth. So it's Mashal. It says over there, every dibur, it's, it's, uh, Torah, Torah, Tanya. Every, every good thing comes with the Nefesh Elokis, but it comes with the Neshamah Abba's. So we're having a conversation, we're talking, and we speak, you know, good things, and in the middle of it, we go on to bad things, and Rashab Harde, we learn. So the Nefesh Elokis and the Sha'aras are,

47:41 Speaker 1 are switching off. How does that work? How does it make sense? So a Dugma that I like to say is that a person's speaking on the phone. Speaking on the cell phone, you're connecting to that tower. Speaking on the cell phone and driving on a highway, you're switching from tower to tower, but the conversation is seamless, but it's jumping from here to there to there. So it's a random Dugma, but just to bring out the concept that you have different energies coming in, and as far as the conversation, the Gila use, it's, it's, it's all, it's one thing. But really, there's a lot more, uh, there's... Behind the scenes, there's, there's different energies that are being used in diff- different places. So I like to do that a lot. I like to talk, the Bachurim get annoyed sometimes, okay? So I get... Especially if the Bachurim are falling asleep and are tired, so I have to make them interesting. I'll talk about different things, about different, uh, examples from the... Yes, I, I like doing that a lot. Examples from phones, technology, from, uh, Drive, Cloud, all this kind of stuff.

48:22 Speaker 3 Do you have a, do you have a good one for Seiviv HaMali?

48:25 Speaker 1 Oh, for that. That's not from technology. That's from Yeshiva.

48:27 Speaker 3 Well... Oh, the, the, the Mashpia, the, the Manal and the Mashpia?

48:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's, um, did you, you've... I think you might remember that.

48:34 Speaker 3 I, I... No, I've heard it a lot. Yeah.

48:36 Speaker 1 Yeah, I said all that. That's what I say for Seiviv HaMali. Um, I sometimes I use it, uh, from, from technology, I use example for that is the battery pack and then your actual software. Meaning to charge your phone, to, to charging your phone is every phone has to be charged the same way. That's Seiviv. It's all the same thing. But if you have iOS, the newest update or whatever, you have the n- latest, uh, software, that's a Malchut column. The energy for the phone to be on-

48:59 Speaker 3 Right

48:59 Speaker 1 ... so that's a, that's a battery plugging to the wall. Every phone has to be charged the same kind of way. Same electricity, every phone needs the same. But how each-

49:06 Speaker 3 So you're saying every type of phone has its own software?

49:09 Speaker 1 That's the Malchut column.

49:10 Speaker 3 Right, right. Every-

49:10 Speaker 1 All phones are the same. Every, every device out there, and, and not just any, the natural stuff, a sophisticated phone, a simple fan you plug into the wall. Any kind of elect- electronic appliance, from the most sophisticated to the most simple one, is Seiviv, 'cause all the electricity does the same thing.

49:21 Speaker 3 Yeah.

49:22 Speaker 1 Each individual has, has what's negia to them, if this is a 220, whatever it's called-

49:25 Speaker 3 You could say, I mean, even the same Mashal, the, the... What's plugging into the wall is the same, but on the other end, the, you know, type C, this, that, the other, there needs to be a different, uh, type of connector. Um, the... I would ask about Seiviv HaMali 'cause for... It, it, it's, it's, uh, it's a very... I mean, Seiviv HaMali is a Seiviv in Chassidus. All over Chassidus, everything is Seiviv HaMali. And I find that even for myself, when I'm learning Chassidus for myself or teaching Chassidus myself, Seiviv is a very, very, very hard thing to, to talk about. I mean, it's supposed to be. That's the whole Vart of Seiviv. It's abstract. But, you know, even starting from, like, you see how the Alter Rebbe himself in Tanya is, like, trying to explain Seiviv in Perikim Ches, that it's not... What's the Mishnah there? Like a Tosafot. No. Uh, yeah, Tosafot? Yeah. That, uh-

50:10 Speaker 1 I don't know the Mishnah

50:11 Speaker 3 ... something like that. Yeah, like that's not... No, it's not Seiviv.

50:13 Speaker 1 It's not out there.

50:13 Speaker 3 It's not, it's not around. It'sspace. It's not-- It can't be around.

50:16 Speaker 1 But the Mashal of the Mana El Maleh Mashgiach has a very good Mashal. I think it's a very good Mashal. The Mashal-

50:21 Speaker 3 It's about our wife?

50:22 Speaker 1 The, the, the Mashgiach is a b-- is, is a person that his job, and again, this is, uh, the, the, the it's not the job description. The Pirkei Avot people are people. Everyone has a mixture of both.

50:30 Speaker 3 Right.

50:30 Speaker 1 The Mashgiach looks at all the Bachurim equal. No matter who you are, you came late, you get a Knas. You came on time, you're so-- It's fine. I don't care your s- s- your situation. So-- And the Mashgiach creates an atmosphere in the Yeshiva. A good Mashgiach that people are afraid of, and that's Seviv HaKolam is more of a Richut, a more Yirah. He creates an atmosphere, but he creates, he's, he's actually Mashpia, but not in the visual kind of way. Meaning, he has a strong Hashpa'ah in the Yeshiva, but it's all equal to everybody. He creates the same aura or whatever would be word for all the Bachurim the same. And the Mashpia is the one that has a s- personal Kasher with each Bachur. So a, a good m-- If you have a Yeshiva with a good Mashpia, without a good Mashgiach, so then Bachurim would love it, and they would be gaining so much individual, but no one's gonna come on time. No one's gonna take Dikkan tests. No one's gonna be learning. They're gonna be eating farbrengen and talking and walking their way.

51:09 Speaker 3 Then it's just a matter of Yirah and Avodah. That doesn't bring out the Seviv versus-

51:13 Speaker 1 That's the Hashpa'ah of Seviv. You have to have someone that's removed that's-- in order to instill that general structure. That e-- The equal structure for everybody. It's not just a Yirah. There has to be a Seidah of structure. The Seviv HaKol case, the g- general structure, the general... It gives the Chomer to the Tzura, which is a Seder of Seder is whatever come, whatever, whatever it comes.

51:28 Speaker 3 Right.

51:28 Speaker 1 But in a sense, the, the Chomer be-- It gives, it gives the basics. It gives that, that Yeseid. It gives that... Everyone is, like, just creates a, a, a general atmosphere, a, a structure.

51:36 Speaker 3 Right.

51:36 Speaker 1 It's a Tashbath that we're getting all the same. Any, any world, that's the same way in the Mashal. And it's in a, it's a Richut kind of way, of a personal Kasher with him, but he creates that aura that he's around. That among the Mashgiach now, he's... If he's out of town, then it all, uh, is on wheels. If he's in town, even if, if he, if he, he's in his office, but still, okay, he's around. So that's that knowledge. The Seviv HaKolam, it creates that.

51:54 Speaker 3 Right.

51:55 Speaker 1 I think it's, uh, a separate good Mashal.

51:56 Speaker 3 And Aveitas Hashem, what's the, what's the... W- w- why is Seviv so important? In other words, in, in, in, in Las Kol, so the Seviv is, uh, you know, there's the element of its Havos, which comes from Seviv, which is kind of like we're saying in the Mashal, that, uh, there's the, you know... Yeah, in the Nimshal, maybe it's a little bit more about Yirah, but in the Mashal, it's more about the structure.

52:15 Speaker 1 In Aveitas Hashem, what I say is that when the Mashpia calls over a Bachur, so it's nice, it's interesting. But when Mana calls over a Bachur and talks to him in a nice kind of way, that's wow. That's like, "Whoa, he called you over, he spoke to you. That's, like, unbelievable." So that's the Seviv HaKolam, and you already told you, to get David himself, not just on the, the lower Madrigos that usually comes to the world. As you-- Everything to do with Mitzvah, you're connecting to David himself, the highest level.

52:33 Speaker 3 Yeah. Especially in, in Torah, the Torah, it's like it's the-- almost every Maimar right now, man. But, like, ma- the, the basic structure-

52:41 Speaker 1 The Medah Uvdavah said complete the-

52:42 Speaker 3 Yeah

52:42 Speaker 1 ... the Chaf Chaf Fagin officially.

52:44 Speaker 3 Oh, that was the Maaseh?

52:45 Speaker 1 Maaseh said.

52:46 Speaker 3 It was about, it was about V'Kiddush HaTorah?

52:47 Speaker 1 Oh, Bechlali, it's a Chiddush. It's the whole Chiddush.

52:49 Speaker 3 Right.

52:49 Speaker 1 It's Maaseh said, Kolam. It's all the same things. They don't know Mashal Aleph Beis. It's all, uh-

52:52 Speaker 3 I don't know. It sounds like a different story. What, what was the story?

52:54 Speaker 1 Chaf Chaf Fagin apparently asked Rav Shimon, "Why don't you learn Chiddush?"

52:57 Speaker 3 Yeah.

52:58 Speaker 1 He said, "It's all the same thing. Malach said, Malach said, there's no, there's no differences." 'Cause he told them that a child learns Aleph Beis for the first time, say, looks at the Chiddush, ah, he sees it, it's the whole same thing. It's all Aleph Beis, Aleph Beis, it's all the same thing.

53:09 Speaker 3 Right.

53:09 Speaker 1 You get older, you see that they put words together, and it is very, very different.

53:11 Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

53:12 Speaker 1 That is over here. You th- you think it's all the same thing, but you learn properly, understand, it's, it's, it's a different Madrigot. It's place.

53:16 Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

53:17 Speaker 1 It's a different-

53:17 Speaker 3 Okay. Now, there's a different Maaseh. Uh, uh, also, maybe, uh, that a Bachur went to the Mashpia. Again, I heard it in make-- Rav Chaim makes sense that he was the Mashpia then. And he asked, uh, "What's the Chiddush of this Maimar?" So I-- The way I heard it, I thought it was the, the Maimar of the Rashab that were being learned then, not V'Kiddush HaTorah, whatever. But, uh, he said, "What's the Chiddush of this Maimar?" So the Mashpia looked at him and said, "And what was the Chiddush of the previous Maimar? And what was the Chiddush of the Maimar before that?" And like, the, the... Forget, forget the Chiddush. They're all saying the same-

53:47 Speaker 1 I-

53:47 Speaker 3 ... Kudav, uh, of Ein Mevader. Chiddush is here to tell you-

53:50 Speaker 1 I, I heard a story completely different, that, uh, Rav Chaim once asked Bachurim about a certain part of the Maimar, "What's the Chiddush in this part?" Like, "Why is it coming in over here?" So they said, "Well, I mean, we're talking about this subject, so it makes sense. They're onto this." So Rav Chaim got upset. It's like, "Put him Kiddush. You just talk away, no Ein, Ein, ignore what, what's, what's-"

54:08 Speaker 3 Right.

54:08 Speaker 1 "Everything is a build. Everything is a floor. It has something out." I think the story fits more with Rav Chaim.

54:12 Speaker 3 Yeah.

54:12 Speaker 1 It was more masking. It was more everything had to make sense. And that story, I don't, uh, it's more of misnamed-

54:15 Speaker 3 It, it, what? Yeah, no, why not Rav Chaim, but, uh-

54:18 Speaker 1 That's why it makes more sense, and it's all-

54:20 Speaker 3 Right

54:20 Speaker 1 ... the Ein Mevader, and that's it, and who cares what the Teiv is and learned, whatever. Rav Wolof said a story about the Tzim Tzim of Hendel, that he, he thought, "Akudim," he said, "Psst, Psst, Amalek or something." Like, I, I forget the details, but something like that. They, they, they were the kinds of people that were-

54:34 Speaker 3 Right

54:34 Speaker 1 ... that, that just, yeah, in the Ein Mevader.

54:36 Speaker 3 But, uh, so, uh, import-- the-- going back to the point, um, saying about Torah, the Torah, I wasn't saying it in the way of like, oh, the, it's not a Chiddush each one. I'm saying it in the opposite way. Like, there's a certain basic structure you see the Alter Rebbe is using each Maimar. I'm not... Yeah, of course, every Maimar has what it's talking about and its words, you know, in the Aleph Beis. And the basic structure in the Alter Rebbe's Maimar for sure is, uh, is Mimali Seviv, and then-

55:01 Speaker 1 It's always about the why, why are we here? That's the main question.

55:04 Speaker 3 Lama Yargam Sham HaLudot.

55:05 Speaker 1 That's the most common question.

55:06 Speaker 3 And then, Um HaZe. And then the answer is because there's Mimali and there's Seviv, and-

55:09 Speaker 1 To bring them closer to the Lord

55:09 Speaker 3 ... the whole question is to get to the Seviv, right.

55:11 Speaker 1 Either whatever, the two answers, yeah.

55:13 Speaker 3 So, so, so you see how Mimali and Seviv is like a core Yesod, not just in a scholar Chassidus, but in the Avodah of it. Like, there's this, there's this, uh, connection to, to Seviv-

55:24 Speaker 1 To bring, to bring the higher Madrigot in, to, to have, have the Man now, talk to the Bachurim. That's the Tachas Hashelemah, is that the Man now. The guy that's a scary guy, he talks to the Bachurim, he's nicer than Mosel.

55:32 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

55:33 Speaker 1 But he has to, at the same time, still be scary and still be above.

55:36 Speaker 3 Right.

55:36 Speaker 1 'Cause then it's a, a, a, Is Man now.

55:39 Speaker 3 Right. It's interesting that in the earlier Rabbeim, Mimali and Seviv is, Seviv is like the, is the pinnacle, so to speak. And in the later Rabbeim, probably from the Rashab, maybe obviously our Rebbe for sure, it's, it took on new aces of Atzmus. Seviv is not Atzmus. Seviv is Ein Saf or, or Ein Saf, but then there's, uh, Ein Saf itself after the Saf.

56:00 Speaker 1 That's what the big Meskin was speaking about.

56:02 Speaker 3 Huh?

56:02 Speaker 1 The big Meskin that know all the Maimadim, all the Rabbeim's, they say they can tell you that.

56:05 Speaker 3 Right.

56:06 Speaker 1 The Chiddush of the-

56:06 Speaker 3 I'm not, I'm not going into-- I'm not asking about, like, where the Chiddush started and all that. I'm, I'm curious more the other way, like- If, if you know why that happened, like why? Meaning, it's not that the earlier Rabbeim didn't know, Chassidishem, that, uh, about the, about the Atzmus or to say Ein Sof versus Ayin Sof. What-- So what, uh, that, that's what we're go-going back to. Like, what, what's this, uh... What, why is Soviv in and as of itself so important to the Alter Rebbe that, uh, that, that the Alter Rebbe is focusing on Soviv as, as, as the... Like you said, bringing the higher level into the lower level, but focusing on it as Soviv. Like, what was the-

56:41 Speaker 1 Why, why call it Soviv and not call it Ayin Sof?

56:43 Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah. Or, or, yeah, or, or Atzmus.

56:46 Speaker 1 They do. Well.

56:48 Speaker 3 'Cause it's almost like when you, when you learn, when you see that build up, again, even without all the scholarly exact analysis, but just on a basic level, you see how especially our Rebbe, and then you can trace it back wherever you trace it back to, focus on Atzmus, on this Mekudah of, of Hashem himself. It's almost like, yeah, it's, it's, it makes more sense. Like, it's, it's more, it's more, I think, um... Again, I'm not trying to sound scholars-- sound scholarly. I'm trying to say, like, uh, it, it, in a way, it's almost like the same question of is, is, is Chassidus supposed to be simple or not? Like, in other words, like, we're building up this, all these levels, any Maimer, right? Any scholarly Maimer that you're learning is building up levels and levels and levels, right? So then you go, then you go back to, uh, Perek Chaf Zayin, or you go back to any basic way of saying it, and it's like, no, it's about serving Hashem. Like, it's about the, it's about doing this, about doing this here and now.

57:38 Speaker 1 It's about to have both sides, yeah.

57:39 Speaker 3 So what, what's the importance of the other side? That's what I'm asking. So what's the... So before I worded it, I asked you about, like, in, in, in words of Shlimus, uh, Tikkun Hamidos or whatever. But in a not-- in other words, you got the same thing.

57:50 Speaker 1 So Bechalal, with the learning Chassidus Nevachim of Chabad, the more you understand it, the more it connects to you. Perek Chaf Zayin itself is not just one line of just serving Hashem. It's an explanation of telling you that this is what you're created for, and the, the whole Bechir of Moshiach Tzadik is only speaking to the Chassidut, to the people that are not Tzadikim. So it's explaining to you and explains the whole thing. It explains the whole, and the whole Seudas Shlishis. What is the Seudas Shlishis? To understand what's, what's going on.

58:10 Speaker 3 Oh, so sometimes it makes it sound like that's the mitzvah, that's the goal in as itself.

58:14 Speaker 1 There's an element of that also. Yeah, for sure. There's a mitzvah from the Seudas for itself.

58:16 Speaker 3 Right.

58:17 Speaker 1 And that itself, it says there's an Inyan of learning Chassidus that just puts you in a different mindset. Like you said before, by the, the learning Chassidus in the morning puts in a different mindset, davens better. And then there's how it all fits in together with your, uh, whatever you're involved with. It's not so much as the Omos Negue Alone. The Rebbe says it.

58:31 Speaker 3 Yeah.

58:31 Speaker 1 The Dur Chassidus Mishuf, in a way that doesn't understand. It puts you in a d-different place. Yeah.

58:34 Speaker 3 Right. Yeah, exactly. That, th-- but that's important for people to understand. Otherwise, people get stuck with, like, you know, "I learned this Maimer, I learned this concept," and, uh, what was the-

58:43 Speaker 1 Not everything you learn has to be translated every single detail. The, the, the Rebbe, the Rashi says Hashem. A lot of Rebbe said to take Sarira from more like one Kukuni could explain about, the whole Pilpul. He just takes one, uh, one lesson of it is Hashem. There's, there's sure this idea is from everything.

58:56 Speaker 3 Right.

58:56 Speaker 1 But it takes one lesson, well, what's Negueh?

58:58 Speaker 3 Yeah.

58:58 Speaker 1 There's a about the Maskil and the Oheiv that he takes the, you know, Yashmeain or whatever, how each one takes it. There's a whole other Sikha. Slichos, I don't remember right now. There's a whole other Slichos how the Maskil takes an Inyan and the Oheiv takes an Inyan, the same thing, how, where they go with it.

59:09 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

59:09 Speaker 1 So everyone can... But the Maskil is also Oheiv.

59:11 Speaker 3 Right.

59:11 Speaker 1 There's also, it's his, his way of, of learning.

59:13 Speaker 3 Right. In other words, even, you know, uh, going back, like you said, the people who are philosophers and like making everything complicated, uh, like sometimes that itself could be the, the Pele Yoetz, so to speak.

59:24 Speaker 1 For them, yeah.

59:25 Speaker 3 Right.

59:25 Speaker 1 For them.

59:26 Speaker 3 Making things complicated and-

59:27 Speaker 1 For them, that's a drug. That, that's, that's it. They walk away with a Chashmal.

59:29 Speaker 3 Cleaning your brain.

59:30 Speaker 1 When they go all the, the, the, all the back and forth and all the Pilpulim, they walk away with it with a Negashmal, yeah.

59:34 Speaker 3 Right.

59:35 Speaker 1 So they, they have a Chashmal from Chassidus. That's a Negashmal, and that makes them in a better place, and that makes them want to connect more to whatever Chassidus represents, which is Ein Od Mivade, which is Din VeDavar, which is Bechol Chil Chil.

59:43 Speaker 3 Right. Yeah, I think what, what I asked you before about the, the book of Tanya and, um, how you would see it not just for Bachurim, but for a broader audience. I th- I think it's, it's... There, there's a, uh, obviously, in general, anyone, you know, unless you're literally just dealing with Bachurim, so then you just need to care about what Bachurim are busy with. But, uh, anyone in general who's not just dealing with Bachurim would wanna connect it to, to a broader audience. Um, I, I know, and, uh, you could talk about this, that you, you specifically, you have this Kesher and this Chassidus with your Bachurim even, uh, when they're out of Yeshiva.

1:00:23 Speaker 1 As a friend.

1:00:24 Speaker 3 Okay. That's-

1:00:24 Speaker 1 I make sure to keep up with it as much as I can, but as a friend.

1:00:27 Speaker 3 Yeah.

1:00:27 Speaker 1 I, I always encourage them to get a new Mashpia, to get someone that's, uh, current and local. But some people will still call me as a Mashpia-

1:00:33 Speaker 3 Right

1:00:33 Speaker 1 ... but I try, do my best as to pass on the torch to somebody else.

1:00:37 Speaker 3 Fine.

1:00:37 Speaker 1 I'm, I'm for sure my life is with Bachurim. That's what I do. I talk with them all the time.

1:00:40 Speaker 3 But you're dealing with, with alumni. You deal a lot with alumni.

1:00:43 Speaker 1 Yeah, but, uh, like I said, it's, uh, very few of my alumni are still, they're, they're under us, the Charedi. It's not like so much Mashpiyim are-- to have people that would be called nonstop. I don't have that.

1:00:53 Speaker 3 Right.

1:00:53 Speaker 1 Um-

1:00:53 Speaker 3 First of all, I, I was saying this b- Bechalal as a very good thing and as a very commendable thing that, that Hanhalah member or whatever, even, e-even if your... Whatever your official role with them as when they were a Bachur was, but that, you know, Hanhalah should keep up with their Bachurim, with their alumni, even after they're out of Yeshiva in whatever capacity. So that's, that's obviously a good thing. But, uh, but, but, but yeah, even, even if, if your role with them is not as a Mashpia, they look to you probably as the person who, or a person who represents Chassidus, who, who, who gave them-

1:01:30 Speaker 1 I, I get that. Right. So they will come with... And I'll have those conversations, but I-

1:01:34 Speaker 3 Right. Even if it's not as a Mashpia, like they're asking you what to do. But even, like, you know, you're having a conversation with them and it's about... Even if you're not calling them up and you're having a discussion on Sefer HaMali with them, but you're having a discussion about where they're holding in life, and they're talking to you, fine. As much as you're, as you're being their friend, which is great, they're looking to you as the person who gave them Chassidus, and therefore probably in their minds when they're talking to you, they're matching up the, the different messages or mindsets that you gave them in Yeshiva.

1:02:00 Speaker 1 I'm not so subconscious. I don't just have a Medata, Medata.

1:02:03 Speaker 3 Right.

1:02:04 Speaker 1 I go, Medakla, when I call them, usually I listen more 'cause I wanna hear what they're up to. But people ask me, "Well, what's going on in Yeshiva?" Yeshiva is Yeshiva. It just brings to say, Bachurim Lehi Mischaalfi. It's, it's all Bizar. It's, it's more or less the same thing. A Klei Zhar, Klei Dor, it's more or less the same thing.

1:02:17 Speaker 3 Right.

1:02:17 Speaker 1 When a, a Bachur used to be in Yeshiva as a regular Bachur, now he's either a Rosh Yeshiva or he's a Melamed or he's in business. That's, uh, something happened. He got married, has children, you know. There's just things going on, so that's just what they hear about.

1:02:26 Speaker 3 Right.

1:02:26 Speaker 1 So I would... Yeah, like I said, they will ask you questions from time to time, but that's not the-

1:02:30 Speaker 3 So my point is that you, you have a pulse. You see how a Bachur in Yeshiva as a Bachur is now- Becoming a Balabas. There, there are probably a lot of Mashki who don't necessarily have that. They don't necessarily keep up that connection with their Bacharim as they become, um, not a Bachar anymore. But you see that connection... You, you see that kid or that Bachar, and you remember him where he was as a Bachar, and now you see him as a Balabas, and now you see him as, uh, as-

1:03:00 Speaker 1 Some of them, yeah.

1:03:00 Speaker 3 Right.

1:03:00 Speaker 1 Many of them I try to, yeah.

1:03:02 Speaker 3 So, so there especially, you could appreciate... In other words, you could-- It's, it's almost like a good test for yourself to see how the Chassidis that you taught them in Yeshiva, the messages that you were drilling them, into them, Seim-- in teaching and Sefer Brenging, how, how it affects them later on.

1:03:21 Speaker 1 Yeah. I, I feel that when I teach a Mesifta, you mentioned this before, you said it differently, but I think Bachar and Mesifta are not really so Chassidis to the, to connect to the Zionim yet.

1:03:31 Speaker 3 Correct.

1:03:31 Speaker 1 They're just... They're room they're getting.

1:03:33 Speaker 3 Right.

1:03:33 Speaker 1 And that's what I try most. And as they get older, they learn more. So I, I, I see that if they, if they like the sheer that I had, and they like me, and they like the whatever positivity we're li-- that we shared with them, so then they're gonna want to do the writer. But to say that the Chassidis that I taught them-

1:03:46 Speaker 3 Yeah

1:03:46 Speaker 1 ... has affected them in a pre-mystical way, I mean, it's man, as man, I'll get a comment, someone will tell me, "Actually, you said something in my research." I said, "There's a, there's a Baberegen." Just now someone was telling me that, uh, at an interview in Yeshiva, someone was saying, like, "One time Baberegen spoke about something, until today it affects him." But it's random. Here and there, I wanna hear that. But it's not so much about the, the Inyonim, the, the details of Chassidis. Well, maybe, maybe some people... I, I remember once having a big argument with Tishah Nechamah Tzesacha. There was four, four or five guys were attacking me about making a Kali in Parnasa or not. They had a whole argument.

1:04:15 Speaker 3 That was the Bachar? Like-

1:04:16 Speaker 1 They were Mesifta Bachar then.

1:04:17 Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

1:04:17 Speaker 1 Like I, I said we'll be in touch in a couple years from now, but they were already there. It was, it was... They're not in touch. I tried reaching out, whatever. But about this whole thing of making a... You're supposed to make a Kali, invest more, not more. There's all the industry, how much to make a Kali, which is the big question that Chassidis in business life have, have this question. I remember at the time, I don't know if you remember, in Crown Heights, there's Everything But the Baby. There's a store.

1:04:36 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

1:04:36 Speaker 1 It used to be like a rundown, disgusting. Like, Mom, she walked in, you couldn't move. Everything was like all cluttered. And then they made... They redid the whole thing. It was a whole shaydas, the right thing and the wrong thing. I think that's when it was happening. They were having, having this, this question.

1:04:46 Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

1:04:47 Speaker 1 So I remember them thinking that this is a conversation that they might come back to the future and discuss it then. They didn't accept what I said then. I'm sure they would accept it afterwards in the world.

1:04:57 Speaker 3 Which was what? That they should make-

1:04:58 Speaker 1 They were saying that you have to.

1:04:59 Speaker 3 Right.

1:04:59 Speaker 1 There is a big difference. If you don't have these things, they're not gonna... You're not gonna make more money. And I was trying to argue the other way, which I don't know for sure what's the right... I'm not in business. I can't say it from, uh... I can talk from the books. I can't talk from real life.

1:05:09 Speaker 3 Right.

1:05:09 Speaker 1 Maybe it's a farkert. When you're in real life and you see that it's not gonna like that, it's not gonna... They... You, you could see it even more that it's not what the books-- what Chassidis actually says.

1:05:16 Speaker 3 Well, Chassidis says, uh, I mean, like you're talking about the

1:05:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. But all kinds have to try to invest more and more. If you have a store-

1:05:32 Speaker 3 More and more. But if you need to-

1:05:34 Speaker 1 If your store is running well, is there a point in making it cutting edge and up to date and whatever, and changing the facade and all that, making a nicer, what's it called?

1:05:41 Speaker 3 Right.

1:05:42 Speaker 1 Is that, is that a point?

1:05:42 Speaker 3 Right. Well, sometimes not progressing is going backwards. You can't stay-

1:05:46 Speaker 1 But if you're Parnasa, if the pile, you don't see a change in your sales, do you have to do that just because you wanna make more?

1:05:51 Speaker 3 Right.

1:05:51 Speaker 1 And all the financial consultants are telling you, "This is what you have to do now." Is that what you're supposed to be doing?

1:05:55 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

1:05:56 Speaker 1 That was the con- that was the conversation that we were having then if it's necessary.

1:06:00 Speaker 3 Uh, first of all, it sounds like... It's interesting 'cause this, this stuff sounds like a Mashal Sefer Emali. You're saying that the, the, the effect of the Chassidis in Mesifta might just be more of a Seder kind of thing.

1:06:11 Speaker 1 Yeah, for sure. For sure, yeah. I, I feel that very much.

1:06:13 Speaker 3 Right. And then when they get back to, uh-

1:06:15 Speaker 1 It's another conversation that, uh, Zvi Freeman was once... I was talking to him. He was... He said he had been teaching older Bacharim, and he asked them, "What's the difference between Machshava and Sechel?" And nobody knew. And he was so upset. "You're in Yeshiva for six, seven. No one taught you that?" So I told him, "We teach it. They just don't get it." I told him, "I'll prove it to you." And I, and I, and I never got back to him about this, but every year when it comes to Pereg Yomo, he talks about my, my, my I say, I say the story. I said, "Chevre, I'm gonna tell you now what's Machshava, what's Sechel. Machshava is thinking about him. Sechel, understanding it."

1:06:44 Speaker 3 Right.

1:06:44 Speaker 1 "I'll, I'll... And I tell... And I'm gonna ask you in a few months what, what it means." And three, four months later, comes up again, I ask them again, "Go on this." No one remembers. "Yeah, yeah, you told us."

1:06:53 Speaker 3 That's right.

1:06:53 Speaker 1 "I, I..." They start remembering. Lots of them, they don't remember.

1:06:56 Speaker 3 Right.

1:06:56 Speaker 1 Once in a while, 'cause I give an example, one plus one equals two. They can say one plus one equals three. It doesn't make sense.

1:06:59 Speaker 3 Right. Yeah, yeah.

1:07:00 Speaker 1 They did it.

1:07:00 Speaker 3 I understand that.

1:07:01 Speaker 1 So something about one plus one equals... No, they don't remember. So I... And I, and I... And then I tell a second time. Usually, the third or fourth time, guys still remember. I have to remember to say every, every Inyan numerous times.

1:07:11 Speaker 3 Right.

1:07:11 Speaker 1 But when you're an adult, you hear this concept, it resonates with you. It says, "Well, at least you understand it." So they hear it once, it's enough. You don't have to hear it again and again. So that's code that we teach the Bacharim at this age. I don't think it really lasts with them. They

1:07:25 Speaker 3 It's about connecting to, to previous experiences, or in other words, it's about connecting to something that's already real in their life. In o- in other words, just like in general what you're saying about, uh, why, why do all the Bacharim figure, realize it? Because when they hear that there's Machshava and Sechel, they're applying it to something that they're living in their life and like, "Ah, yeah, now it makes sense. That's Machshava, that's Sechel." So therefore, they can connect to it 'cause now they have tags for their previous experiences or whatever, previous knowledge. Here, when you're, you're like... You're telling a Bachar what's going on. He has no clue what's going on. It's like, uh, same thing in Gemara-

1:07:56 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:07:56 Speaker 3 ... when you teach these, uh, Mishnah.

1:07:57 Speaker 1 There's, there's another story that I use. I tell this to Bacharim all the time. It's a story that I read once in, uh, some, uh, uh, Mechannach that he has. He, he says the story, then it happened to me also. It, uh, the kid said there was a woman that she was married, and she had some issues that she needed some kind of a mental health, some kind of looking for a mental health provider. She heard that one of her seminary teachers is now retired and is a psychologist. So she remembered her as a good thera-- a good, uh, teacher. She liked her then. So she called her up now, and she, uh, booked an appointment, and they spoke about whatever it was. They don't say what it was. They had sessions a couple of weeks, and then Baruch Hashem, it was very good. The last session, the mother asks her, the seminary teacher, "I have a question I was waiting to ask you. In seminary, you taught us Yahados, Dinim, Navi, Historia." It's-- I get that, but couldn't you make a class on this subject? This is a