השתכרות בפורים

00:00 Speaker 1 This is Iggros, and we are beginning to prepare for Purim. Part of that Purim preparation is letters that specifically have to do with Purim. So we're looking at a letter today from the year Tuv Shin Yud Beis. It's from Zion, Adar of Tuv Shin Yud Beis. And the detail we're going to pull out of it, the topic of the Shiur today, is going to be . That is the , the obligation according to Shulchan Aruch, to drink on Purim until you are quite, uh, simply in a drunken stupor that is, uh, so beyond normal that you're unable to tell the major characters in the Purim story apart. That is the in the Shulchan Aruch to drink to excess on Purim. So we're going to look at that today. We're gonna look at it a little bit in the letter, and then we're gonna dive into some of the where the Rebbe explains whether there are in fact limitations to this. We're going to discuss whether the Rebbe's famous gezirah of only drinking four l'chaims extends to Purim. That's very controversial. Uh, we're also going to discuss whether people should be relying on Halakhic leniencies to allow them to not drink to excess on Purim. And, uh, because that's the discussion today, I guess there needs to be kind of a bumper at the front of the Shiur. So let me open with a couple, uh, rules, a couple ground rules. Uh, thing number one, if you are addicted to alcohol or were addicted to alcohol,

01:06 Speaker 1 and you are-- were-- are or were an alcoholic, you are not supposed to drink on Purim, obviously. If it's dangerous to do something, you can't do it. If it's a mitzvah in the Shulchan Aruch to eat something you're allergic to, you can't have it. So this obviously doesn't apply to somebody struggling with alcohol. If you are a child, and that means you are under the legal drinking age and your parent is not with you making sure you're okay, anything like that, there's-- you're-- you can't drink on Purim. Uh, now that we've moved beyond that, for healthy adults, whether they should be drinking on Purim, the Shiur is for you. Okay. Without further ado, the letter we're looking at is labeled Aleph Tuv Nun Daled. Uh, this is from Zion Adar Tuv Shin Yud Beis. It's an oldish letter. And the Rebbe says, regarding Purim. We actually have a lot of things in this letter about Purim, although we're gonna focus on the drinking part. Uh, there's a lot in here. First of all, it is known that the joy on Purim is far greater than the joy on Yom Tov. Recognize that's a interesting thing to say. Uh, although the Rebbe proves it quite well, uh, in sources, and it's proven throughout Chasidis quite well. Simchas Yom Tov is a mitzvah de'oraisa, and Purim is at best a mitzvah de'rabbanan, right? So Simchas Purim can at best be a mitzvah de'rabbanan. Purim is a mitzvah de'rabbanan. Supposedly, the Simcha of Purim, you could say, is

02:08 Speaker 1 a, is a mitzvah de'rabbanan because of the on Purim, be happy. But it certainly is a bit of a chiddush, uh, that the Simcha of Purim would be greater than the Simcha of Yom Tov, although the Rebbe says it explicitly, and it's defended very well in the footnotes. He says that on Simchas Yom Tov, you are and Simcha nonetheless, we don't see any t-- any mention of . We don't see that on Yom Tov you're supposed to drink yourself drunk. So obviously, although there is a mitzvah de'oraisa of Simcha on Yom Tov, it is a limited Simcha compared to the unlimited one on Purim. Rambam explains when it comes to Simchas Yom Tov, you're really not supposed to drink that much. As a matter of fact, Bezin would send around guards to make sure nobody was drinking too much on Yom Tov. So it's a Simcha dik day, and it's a mitzvah de'oraisa to be with Simcha on Yom Tov, but not to excess. Uh, whereas on Purim is the only time we have a mitzvah to be drunk. The reason why we have this special Simcha on Purim is because this was the day the great miracles were d-- were done for our forefathers. And because of all that, the Simchas Purim is greater and more powerful than the Simcha of Yom Tov. So notice what the Rebbe is doing in this top paragraph. The proof the Rebbe is using for the power of Simchas Purim is the fact that there's a to drink

03:17 Speaker 1 so much on Purim. He's drawing a stri-- a straight line between the Simcha and the drinking, which is going to be important for us. The reason why the Simcha of Purim is greater than Yom Tov is because on Yom Tov, is saying now a . A what's happening on Yom Tov that makes it a happy but limited day, whereas on Purim it becomes a happy unlimited day, is the should be Yom Tov on the days of Yom Tov. Even though on Yom Tov we draw down a light that is higher than . We draw down light from far above . Uh, nonetheless, we put it in the of . To use-- I know I'm using Kabbalah words. I think most of us are comfortable with them, but just in case, is starting down the , right? Starting from all the way down. That is, I draw light from above the and , and I draw it into , into the worlds of and onward. I don't know if I just defined that better, just used more Kabbalah. Sorry. Anyway, but on Purim it's different. On Purim we had . The entire year we had . This is something that is actually a chiddush of the Alter Rebbe that we have the entire year of Purim. The Alter Rebbe is mechadesh that, uh, because Haman only decreed against the Yehudim that if any Jew had decided not to be a Yehudi at any point during that year, they would have been spared. So the entire year,

04:27 Speaker 1 their choice to be a Yehudi, despite the fact that it was gonna get them killed, was an active act of . This transcends intellect and reason. That reaches far above . The idea is that Yom Tov draws down things from above into , but Purim is an entire day that is above . Therefore, although there's a great Simcha on Yom Tov, it needs to come into proper vessels, and those proper vessels look like limited drinking. On Purim, we are, we are accessing the where there are no limitations. There is no . There is no , no intellect. It's . It's the point where up and down and left and right, Mordechai and Haman are all kind of smushed together in union. In addition to this, the days of Purim are days of . That's what's called in the Megillah, days of drinking and joy. And that is the revelation of light in vessels specifically, which is kind of the opposite of what we just said. See, there's the, there's the, there's the trick there. On Purim, we also put the light in , but those are that cannot hold the light, and there's a special dispensation on the day of Purim that allows those to hold that light. Also, Purim is unique in that it is a essentially Yom Tov, but it's . I mean, we're going to be-- If you're in Monsey, you're gonna spend most of Purim in traffic. So it's a day where you're allowed to do Melacha, not only allowed to

05:45 Speaker 1 do Melacha, it's a day where in Monsey, the minhag is to stay in your car most of the day honking at people. It's a joke. At the time of doing Melacha, that is, it's a time of and , and at the same time, you're doing Melacha, you're doing work. That's an act of that transcends intellect entirely. Because it demonstrates that your only interest is Hashem. That is, if even while I'm at work, even while I'm doing work, all I'm doing is thinking about the that is the mitzvah of the day, I have transcended, uh, I've transcended intellect completely, and I'm doing an act of investing God in my daily life. As says, I don't want anything except for Asha. That's essentially what that line means, and also as the Rebbe is going to conclude, as is the well-known statement from the Alter Rebbe when he was in the state of Devekos, that he would say that in this lashon, he would say in the lashon that, "I don't want your Gan Eden, I don't want your, uh, i don't want your, uh," what is this here? "I don't want your Gan Eden, i don't want your Olam Haba. I only want DeChalen, I only want you." Uh, so what the Rebbe is saying here is that the fact that we're allowed to do Melacha on Purim doesn't make it a lower day, it makes it a higher day. It's a holier day because we're allowed to do Melacha on it, because the permission to do

06:50 Speaker 1 Melacha on Purim means that Purim is a day where we're completely comfortable being Mesenephish, completely investing, uh, ourselves in godliness, even when we're involved in our daily lives. Anyway, the entire basis here for the Rebbe's discussion, that's the end of the letter. The entire basis here for the Rebbe's discussion of the power of Purim is all based on a point, that is, the Rebbe is saying because this is a day where we drink to excess, this is a day where the Halakha tells us that we're supposed to drink to excess, where there is no limit on the amount of drinking, once again, for healthy adults, uh, where there is no limit for the amount of drinking. On a day like that, that's a day that has, uh, physical changes, that is, it's a day of greater Simcha and spiritual changes. That's a day where your Mamshik far higher Otis and put them into cable that normally can't hold it. The entire idea of the specialness of Pu-- i know specialness isn't a word. This specialness of Purim is the fact that it is a day where we don't limit our drinking. So on that note, I wanna ask whether we do limit our drinking, and that's what we're going to look at in a couple of other sources from the Rebbe. Unfortunately, I don't have any other letters to show you today, so this is very loosely an Igrish here. Everything else I have to show you is Sichas. Uh, but it's, uh, it's become

07:49 Speaker 1 a, uh, a letter Sichas year over time, I guess, because a lot of times when we support the things we find in letters, we gotta look in Sichas. I'm gonna make the screen a little bit bigger. This thing that I have at the top here, uh, i found at the bottom of like eight different letters in Igrish, and it's almost the exact same lashon every single time. And so i wanted to show it to you. So i lied. There is one more letter. Uh, this is a piece of a letter. You'll find this at the bottom of a lot of letters the Rebbe sends on Purim. The Rebbe says at the end of a lot of Purim letters or right before Purim letters. "Veli mei Purim habal in the Liteva." Uh, when it comes to these days of Purim which are coming, may they come, may they come well upon us. "Hini hi ratzen," it should be God's will. "Sheyes simcha ad d'lo yada," that you have joy. "Ad d'lo yada," that you have this limitless above seichel level joy, uh, which is the mitzvah on Purim to drink until you do not know, "ad d'lo yada," until you do not know the difference between, blessed is Mordechai and cursed is Haman. "Shezeh ba ai de livsumi beyayin," and this comes specifically by drinking wine. And "al pi chassidus," what does that mean? "Zehu Torah sa'ach chassidus." Wine is Torah sa'ach chassidus. If you learn any Likutei Sichos, you know that every time the Rebbe's

08:43 Speaker 1 done with a Rashi Sicha, near the end, he'll say, "Am yenashel Torah." If i wanna use the wine of Torah, I'll tell you what this all means, "al pi chassidus." So "chassidus" is called wine. "V'umshum zeh hakol shana kula," and this should extend itself upon the entire year. As a side point, just because we're here together talking about wine and "chassidus" anyway, uh, some younger people, some eighth-graders, uh, asked me yesterday what they're supposed to do on Purim if they're not allowed to drink. Uh, and i told them, "You still have the mitzvah of 'ad d'lo yada.' You're just not allowed to drink." So there's another one here that's all over Igrish. If you're not allowed to drink and you wanna reach "ad d'lo yada," the only other, other way up is through a Maimer, so i guess you better learn a Maimer. They were unhappy with that. They, uh, i, i, i think they wanted a hecher to drink. But, uh, if you are unable to drink for whatever reason, either because you're too young or because you're too sick, there is another way to reach "ad d'lo yada," and that's through learning "chassidus." I understand that might be a-- i understand your Yetzer Hara might not like it as much. What can i tell you? Uh, regarding people who have Halakhic problems with drinking on Purim, uh, we get this shaila a lot from certain corners where they say, "Well, there's a hecher here and a hecher there, and i don't necessarily have

09:39 Speaker 1 to drink. And what if i drink and i cause damage to people? What if i drink and i become an animal?" The Rebbe has a couple answers to people who are concerned about drinking on Purim because it could cause Halakhic problems. Of course, the basic idea of drinking on Purim is in Shulchan Aruch. Shulchan Aruch specifically says, "You have to drink on Purim until you are completely drunk and don't know the major characters of the Purim story." So it is a din in Shulchan Aruch, as the Rebbe's gonna stress quite a bit in these Sichas, that you have to drink on Purim. At the same time, what if the question is, if i do drink on Purim, that'll fulfill that Halakha and violate a different Halakha? Am i allowed to do such a thing? So this is a Sicha from Tav Shin Yud Alef, a little piece of one. The Rebbe says here, "Afshu b'derech klali esh li zar ba'kiganda." Even though generally we have to be real careful about things like drinking. "Keyvan sheyechaledi es mizetei tavil ti tzuya." Because you can have all sorts of negative things come from alcohol. And man, is that an understatement. "Vadem uad leiliman." Furthermore, a person is always muad. That means a person is always suspected of being ready to damage things. "Ben ara, ben yasha." Whether he's awake or whether he's asleep. People inherently damage stuff, and they always have to be on the lookout so they don't hurt anybody. "Hared madivara mur, medivara mur." When

10:35 Speaker 1 does this apply? "Kash es es es adas atma." This only applies when you are making the decision on your own to drink. If you decide on a Wednesday that you are going to have a drink, now that's a real bad decision because "adem uad leiliman," you could damage people. You have to be real careful about controlling how much you drink and where you drink. It's, uh, you're taking that, you're taking that responsibility upon yourself because you told you to drink on a random Wednesday. "Ava. Kish es es es mitat tzeveha Torah." You do this because the Torah commands you to. That is, i wouldn't be drinking right now, but i'm forcing myself to drink because the Torah tells me i have to. "Le'kachas haTorah sa'ach ra'ayes shitz tamizetiena ach rach teyv." The Torah takes the ach ra'ayes. The Torah takes the responsibility that any outcomes from this will only be good. This is, uh, this is, uh, mind-boggling. The Rebbe's saying here that if a person drinks on Purim because the Torah tells them to drink on Purim and for no other reason, then the Torah itself comes in and says, "I'll take responsibility for you. Don't worry, I've got you covered, and I'll make sure that only good things come out of that drinking." "Ve'teva nireh ve'nigleh." And not just good things like in some distant sense of everything God does is good. "Ve'teva nireh ve'nigleh." That means that in, in actual observable detail, we will see positive things come out of drinking that

11:34 Speaker 1 is done for the purposes of Torah exclusively. "Heiman geleh mei Purim atsmam." This applies to the days of Purim itself. "Heiman geleh puah sanal kol hashana." This will also be a positive outcome on the entire year. So somebody who does drink like a mensch, what drink like a mensch means is that they don't want to drink, and they drink because Purim is-- because the Shulchan Aruch tells them that on Purim they have to drink. The Torah itself promises that the outcomes will be only good in a revealed way for Purim itself and for the year at large, which i think should settle most people's concerns. However, if their concerns are not settled, there is another Sicha from Tav Shin Mem Tes, where the Rebbe says, "Le'ach mei eli shietzim dechavas nad d'lo yada de sheina k'muba b'Shulchan Aruch." This is not like-- "i'm not interested," says the Rebbe, "in people who fulfill their 'ad d'lo yada,' their, their requirement to get drunk on Purim by falling asleep." Now, the Rebbe says in the Sicha, as is brought in Shulchan Aruch, indeed, the Rama brings that in Shulchan Aruch, that one way to fulfill "ad d'lo yada" is to drink and then fall asleep. The Rebbe says, "I'm not happy with this." "Elim hakay mativ livsumei 'ad d'lo yada." I want people to fulfill the command of "livsumei 'ad d'lo yada," to drink, to drink, "livsumei," to drink until the "ad d'lo yada." Meaning, if a person drinks and then falls asleep, they didn't drink until

12:33 Speaker 1 they don't know the difference between the Purim characters anymore. They drank and then fell asleep, and the sleep caused them not to know the difference. The Rebbe wants that, uh, the people should drink, that they should, uh, they should lose knowledge of the Purim characters, "livsumei," that they should reach this level of "ad d'lo yada" through the mechanism of alcohol specifically. "Kipshutei," as is understood in its most simple sense. "Melili l'chapes heterim v'psharos v'kieyetz vizah." The Rebbe says, "I don't want you looking for heterim. I don't want you looking for psharos and anything like that." Follow the Shulchan Aruch to the T. "Vashe chelkei v'gadol schose." Great and happy is his portion and great is his merit, somebody who does such a thing. "Vi ratzen sh'meini yirav acheini yasu." And it should be God's will that based on somebody who does such a thing, this is what people should do, that people will follow his example. So the Rebbe is saying here very clearly that there are heterim out there to not drink on Purim to excess, and the Rebbe is not happy with them. The, uh, Rebbe doesn't want people finding heterim or psharos or anything like that because the Rebbe wants you to keep Shulchan Aruch. We've talked about this here many, many times, and that is that the Rebbe really has one fundamental ask of, of the Hasidim over and over again, and it's to keep Shulchan Aruch. Uh, i do believe that ninety-nine percent of what the Rebbe wants would be

13:33 Speaker 1 accomplished by anybody keeping Shulchan Aruch and nothing else. I mean, the other one percent you'd have to throw in there is that the Shulchan Aruch doesn't explicitly say to learn Hasidus, as far as i know, and the Rebbe wants that. But the truth is, uh, the vast majority of what the Rebbe asks for is to keep Shulchan Aruch kipshutei, and Shulchan Aruch kipshutei says to drink to excess on Purim. So the Rebbe is not happy with people who use these sha-- who use compromises, who use heterim. At the same time, uh, those of us who are familiar with the Rebbe's Gezeira- It is called the gezeira, although the Rebbe certainly had more than one of them. This is the gezeira. Knows that this is a little bit of a complicated, uh, line to toe because the Rebbe is telling us in all of these places he wants us to drink livasumi peri ad d'leyada, which is obviously a degree of excess of drinking, which would require a prodigious amount of alcohol. And at the same time, the Rebbe in the year Taf Shin Chaf Gimel, which was, what, nineteen sixty-three. In nineteen sixty-three already, the Rebbe came out with a gezeira forbidding anybody from drinking more than four l'chaims. And for, uh, I don't know, for me, I think probably two l'chaims that could be ad d'leyada. But for a lot of people, four l'chaims is not quite enough to reach ad d'leyada. And also the Rebbe seems to be stressing all over the place

14:31 Speaker 1 in our letter and also in these sichas the importance of having no limitations on Purim. This is a line in the sand limitation. Does the limitation of the gezeira apply on Purim? And the answer to this question is a very solid maybe. Uh, if you, uh, if you ask Chabad Rabbonim as far as psak is concerned, what the Rebbe's shita on this, on this is, most of them will tell you that we heard both versions at both times and to ask a mashpia individually. And that's also what I'm going to tell you, but I will show you some of the sides. But the, the bottom line is that we really have no choice but to ask a mashpia or a Rav individually whether we think that for us the gezeira of the Rebbe of only drinking four drinks applies to Purim as well because you literally have the Rebbe saying different things in different sichas, and it's hard to know what the truth is. So the sicha from Parshas Shemini of Taf Shin Chaf Gimel, which was right after the gezeira came out, and the Rebbe there says immediately, " Rachmana ligeiliyam echad beshanah Purim eni lehitleshar." The Rebbe says explicitly, "I'm not making the gezeira about Purim." Should be an open-closed case, right? The Rebbe says, "When it comes to one day of the year, Purim, I'm not making the gezeira. I'm not mixing in there." V'zes because of two reasons. Reason number one, "Mishom shebepurim tzrichin lechayes be'ad d'leyada," because on Purim you

15:30 Speaker 1 have a mitzvah to reach ad d'leyada. "B'gesh uro b'dargazu harabivadi leitiyadeya shel yetzer hara l'shachnei l'kachas mashke." At that level, the yetzer hara is not going to tell you to take mashke. There's a few ways to read that sentence, but I'll tell you how, uh, how I read it because it relates to me so strongly. That is, you might have noticed that your yetzer hara, one of the things that is a dead giveaway that you're dealing with yetzer hara is that it never wants to do the right thing at the right time. It always wants to do something at the wrong time. So whereas the Rebbe is always worried that the yetzer hara will try to trick you into drinking, the Rebbe is saying there is one day a year that I don't think the yetzer hara is gonna try to trick you into drinking for yetzer hara reasons, and that's the day where you'll fulfill a mitzvah by doing it. Meaning the person who wants to drink very badly, they will have one day of the year where they don't wanna drink, and it'll be Purim because that's the day it's a mitzvah. So the Rebbe says, "First of all, I'm not so worried about the yetzer hara mi-- I'm not so worried about the yetzer hara mixing in when it comes to Purim because Purim is a day where it's a mitzvah, and that's the one day the yetzer hara will say, 'You know, maybe I won't drink today.'" Uh, v'hu, v'hu ha'iker,

16:22 Speaker 1 the Rebbe says, "That's not my main reason, though. Here's my main reason." Mikemish ad purim estamach kariv hamashiach ve'az harah yekul hamashke. The Rebbe says that's not the main reason. The main reason that I'm not making the gezeira extend to Purim and allowing people to drink whatever they want on Purim is because I expect that by the time Purim comes, Mashiach will be here already, and that will be a situation of kul hamashke, and I won't have to answer any questions about this. So the Rebbe's main reason for not putting a gezeira on Purim was because he never wanted to say before Purim that Mashiach wasn't going to come by Purim time. Once Mashiach comes, obviously, there's no gezeira how much you can drink. So do we get from this sicha clarity? I, I, I do think we get a degree of clarity. The Rebbe says, "I don't wanna mix in on Purim. There's only one day that's an exception." It sounds like from the sicha an exception to the rule of, uh, of having a limit to how much we drink according to the Rebbe, that the exception to this would be Purim. There's another sicha like this one year later. One year later in Taf Shin Chaf Daled on Purim, the Rebbe says, "Ma shehuzkar keida b'negeia l'ik yum shelo yibales bepurim," that which we mentioned earlier, that there are no limitations on Purim. Bez din k'yetzar beze, that no bez din k'yetzar beze, the thing we talked about a little earlier. That

17:19 Speaker 1 whereas on Yom Tov there's a day-- there's simcha and there's wine, Bez din sends around messengers to make sure nobody's over-drinking, overindulging. On Purim, there's no such messengers sent around. People are expe-- are expected to overindulge. So based on what we just discussed earlier, says the Rebbe, that there are no limitations on Purim. Kavana hi gaba negel hapeil, I also mean this practically. Sheb'yom hazeh ubesiba zu that on this day and at this mesiba batal agbalah shel gimel keisos v'gomer. The gezeira of gimel keisos, which is the gezeira of dalei keisos, is batal v'gomer. So the Rebbe here says that whatever gezeira I had made about a limit to how much you're allowed to drink, it does not apply to Purim in the spirit of the idea that Bez din would place gezeiras on, uh, how much a people, people could drink on Yom Tov, but they would never do it on Purim. So that's two sichas now that very clearly say, very clearly say that the gezeira does not apply on Purim, and the Rebbe expects people to drink to excess on Purim only and on no other day of the year. There is a sicha from Parshas Shemini, uh, from the year-- That's not-- That shouldn't be eighty-one. That hasn't happened. That happened like two years ago. It's forty-one. Sorry. That is, uh, that is Taf Shin Mem Alef, so that would be nineteen eighty-one. And in this sicha in Parshas Shemini from nineteen eighty-one, the Rebbe says, "Vepurim tzarich lehias ad d'leyada."

18:22 Speaker 1 On Purim, we got to reach ad d'leyada. Theme here. Avabachal hashana kulah yesh lah mididas bagbalos. The entire year there are limitations. Acheil hamashneim b'Torah, based on that which it says in the Torah, yayin ve'shechar al teisht. That it says in the Torah not to-- that Kohenim aren't supposed to drink wine, yayin ve'shechar. Uh, k- then so there's limitations to drinking in general because drinking is a negative thing. The Torah identifies it as a negative thing. So, uh, generally speaking, there are hard limitations on how much you can drink. Vechein al pi Shulchan Aruch, according to Shulchan Aruch, ufnad sha'al rebbi Seini Zinenu v'yuchad udkesh hadavar b'negelot tamidi yeshivas. This is, uh, this is, uh, specifically based on Shulchan Aruch and specifically from Rebbe Seini Zinenu and specifically as is clarified for those who negelot tamidi yeshivas. So, uh, for the rest of the year, there is a rule that we don't drink ad d'leyada, but on Purim we do ad d'leyada. What am I getting from this, from this snippet of a sicha? I'm getting that the Rebbe says that on Purim you need to drink ad d'leyada mash'ein kein the rest of the year, which would imply that if there is any limitation from the Torah from Shulchan Aruch, which there certainly is not if there is, there is a limitation in Torah Shulchan Aruch how much we drink during the year that shouldn't apply to Purim, which means that in theory any gezeira that the Rebbe made wouldn't apply to Purim. Although

19:24 Speaker 1 that's not nearly as explicit as the other ones. Problem is we have sichas in the other direction. If these were the only three sichas we had, I would tell you very clearly that the gezeira doesn't apply on Purim and people can drink however much they want. However, there is a sicha from Tammuz of Tav Shin Chaf- Hey, and there's a sicha very similar to it in Nun Alef that I don't have on the page, where the Rebbe says, "Hatakanah eidos hagbalas veshtiyas mashke baPurim vesimchas Torah betкуф haemedes." But the takanah about drinking mashke on Purim and Simchas Torah stands betкуф-- betayкуф haemedes. It stands as strong as it ever was. "V'geve sh'lo nisa'ar et bezeh teshpi'a al achad ashnaim sheishmer al hatakanah." And because people are not being careful about this, I would like you to have an effect on one or two more people and tell them to keep the takanah. So what do you do with that? In this sicha, the Rebbe says very clearly that, uh, that he wants people to keep the limitations of his takanah, of his gezirah, on Purim and Simchas Torah as well. And because people aren't careful about it, to influence others to do so as well. Uh, which means that, which means that since we have sichas in both directions as to whether we really do drink without limit on Purim, this is going to have to be tossed back to a mashpia or a rav or both to figure out whether you are going to

20:24 Speaker 1 drink ad d'lo yada on Purim, even in, even, uh, beyond the level of the gezirah that the Rebbe put in place. In any event, what we do have here, I think most importantly, is the idea that ad d'lo yada is central to Purim. Literally drinking is central to Purim. The idea that people can find hetterim and pshatots to get around drinking on Purim is something that the Rebbe is not happy with at all, and, uh, mainly because the Shulchan Aruch says to do it, and also for spiritual reasons that are mentioned in our letter. And as to the, uh, as to the sort of in-house question of whether the gezirah of drinking only four cups of l'chaim applies on Purim as well, you really have sichas in both directions, but I think you would have a pretty easy time defending both the position that the, that the gezirah is in effect and the position that the gezirah is suspended. Okay, that's it.

21:06 Speaker 2 Did, did nobody ask the Rebbe what this means that there's conflicting sichas?

21:12 Speaker 1 As far as I know, no. Somebody actually wrote a whole kuntras on this. It's called, like, Kuntras Gezira. And, uh, I, I don't believe there were any direct answers from the Rebbe, just a lot of sichas and, and implications in both directions. Um, his achara, the person who wrote the kuntras was, uh, was under the impression that the bottom line is the Rebbe does not want the gezirah violated on Purim. Um, but, uh, I'm not sure I agree. I mean, there's, uh, there's a lot of stuff in the other direction too. So I think it's a, a little bit of a toss-up. I will note that it's a toss-up on Purim exclusively. It's not a toss-up any other time of year. There are some people who think that for whatever reason, if they're having a particularly good farbrengen or things are going particularly well, that they can break the gezirah. There, there is no hetter for the gezirah outside of Purim. On Purim, it's a question. The rest of the year, to, to drink until you're drunk, the Rebbe is not happy with this ever, uh, besides for Purim. Um, the Friediker Rebbe says in a sicha there are three times a year that, uh, Chassidim are allowed to drink a little too much, and that is Yut Tes Kislev, Simchas Torah, and Purim. That means anybody who is out-outside of those three days becoming drunk through drinking, even if they're within the gezirah, is doing something that's not Chassidish, it's just animalistic. The idea

22:12 Speaker 1 of being drunk is not a value of ours. Um, but on Purim specifically, there's, there's room for a discussion about it, especially since Shulchan Aruch seems to want it. Seems to want it? Definitely wants it. There's a lot of room for discussion for this exception being on Purim. But on a random, on a random Shabbos in Varham, where the, uh, where the, where the farbrengen's going well, to leave drunk, there is a, there is no such hetter. This, this isn't part of Chassidish, this isn't part of Halakha. Part of Hefkedus, but it's not part of anything else.

22:35 Speaker 2 Uh, Richie, surely you have a story on this topic. Uh, okay. Purim question number Alef.

22:45 Speaker 1 Wow, it was just waiting there.

22:48 Speaker 2 No. Uh, so the Rebbe-- Yemo Purim was on, uh, Friday. So the, the Purim farbrengen was on Shabbos. Friday afternoon, the Rebbe davened Mincha upstairs, like, if I remember, between three fifteen, if I'm not mistaken. Whatever. I was actually there by that Mincha, and after Mincha, the Rebbe went into his room and came out, I think it was about two minutes later, and he said a Ma'amar. He said, "Close the doors," et cetera, et cetera. Now, there were two people that were there by Mincha and were not there by the Ma'amar, and I was one of them. Uh, Chaponen, uh, by that, by that, uh, Ma'amar, Chaponen called the Rebbe, uh, the Rebbe asked for wine. He drank two, like, big cups of wine. Big-ish was plastic cups. I imagine it was five ounce or seven ounce, I'm not really sure. And then he said something to the Lishaynus about, uh, I don't, I don't, I don't remember what the Lishaynus were, but, uh, definitely the Ohelum took it to mean, uh, you know, all, all, no-- What's the Russian? No, no holds barred or something like that. I mean, it was a very levitic Purim, uh, erev Purim and Purim and Shabbos.