שבעה בערב יום הכיפורים

00:00 Speaker 1 This is Igris, and today we are looking at a letter from Yod Gimmel Tishrei of Taf Shin Lamed Dalet, or more or less fifty years ago. The letter is Yod Tav Tav Kuf Ayin Vav, and it's a short letter, but it has a long backstory behind it. As you can usually tell when you look below the line and see that they've written a whole bunch of notes, that's frequently an indication that you have a fun backstory. Here, this isn't necessarily a fun backstory, this is kind of a sad backstory, but it also is kind of the end or middle. I'm gonna call it the middle. It's the middle of a story that has not finished yet. So all of you Halacha minds who are listening, you have a chance to finish a story that we are going to start today and get to the middle of today, uh, and still is kind of hanging out there in Halachic, uh, questionable space. So here's the, here's the letter. Let's read the letter first, then we'll dive backwards. So the Rebbe says to the Ɣazkena, Harav Ben Geula, av belebim bekaram me sefer Leket Yosher. The Rebbe thanks him very much. Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't put it on the screen. I, I feel like we're all looking at the same thing. Hold on one minute. I thought we were all looking at the same thing. There we go. Much better. Yod Tav Tav Kuf Ayin Vav is the one we're doing. And once again, Ɣazkena Harav

01:00 Speaker 1 Ben Geula av belebim bekaram me sefer Leket Yosher. So the Rebbe's thanking him very much for Ha'arah in the Sefer Leket Yosher when it comes to an avel on Erev Yom Kippur. Shekasu shedai bemiktzas hayom, he says it's enough to just keep half the day. V'ine bara leforer sham lifnei mincha, and it's unclear whether he means that this is before Mincha or not. So a little bit of background, and then some more background, and then even more background. We'll go-- We'll just keep on going deeper and deeper into what this letter is saying. At the surface, what this letter is saying is that, uh, an avel, somebody who's in there, somebody who's in shiva, somebody who's sitting shiva rachmana lichvual, uh, they, they had somebody die between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, I guess, would have to be the dates. Uh, on Erev Yom Kippur, are they allowed to go to mikvah? Are they allowed to go to mikvah on Erev Yom Kippur? Somebody who's sitting shiva normally is not allowed to go to mikvah, uh, and on Erev Yom Kippur, are they allowed to go? We're gonna see in Shulchan Aruch and in other places that they are allowed to go, but they should go as close to nighttime as possible, which is the normal din when it comes to Erev Yom, Erev Yom Tov of any kind. If, uh, as you know, Yom Tov, when it comes into shiva, when shiva intersects with Yom Tov, shiva gets canceled, but you still have that

01:58 Speaker 1 last day of shiva on Erev Yom Tov so that you won't enter Yom Tov looking all messy. You're allowed to a few minutes or an hour shortly before Yom Tov, you're usually allow-- Not you. Somebody who is in this situation is allowed to take a shower, is allowed to go to mikvah, but only right before Yom Tov. So the same question, of course, comes up on Erev Yom Kippur, and the Halacha psukah is you can go shortly before. Now, the Rebbe was looking for a opinion that would allow him to go before Mincha. This is because his mother passed on Shabbos Shuva. Since Rebbetzin Chana passed on Shabbos Shuva, uh, the Rebbe was in this very situation and was looking for a heter to go before, uh, before Mincha on Yom Kippur, as was always his custom. He didn't find one, as we're going to discuss in a bit. This letter is supposed to be a follow-up to that, where he did find one source that would appear to have allowed it. That is a Leket Yosher. The Sefer Leket Yosher, it says down here who that is. I forget. I think it's a Chumas Adashan. Yes, it's Piskei Chumas Adashan in Hilchos Aveilus. So it's Minhagei Piskei Chumas Adashan in Hilchos Aveilus. It's a pretty good primary source, and it appears to allow a avel, somebody who's sitting shiva, to only keep miktzas hayom, to only keep part of the day. Uh, the Rebbe says, "It's still not clear to me, though, whether you

02:57 Speaker 1 can actually tevel before Mincha." So that's the letter in a nutshell. Let's go way, way back, discuss everything now that I've discussed briefly, unpack the whole letter, and get a complete understanding of what this adds to the discussion and what still remains to be done. So first of all, uh, as I think most of us know, uh, on Shabbos Shuva of, of Tishrei of the Taf Shin Chaf He, which would've been what? What's Taf Shin Chaf He? That is, uh, sixty-five? Sixty-five. Of N-- Wou-would it have been sixty-five? Probably still sixty-four, because that's the way Tishreis work. Probably sixty-four. In any event, on Shabbos Shuva of, of, uh, Shabbos Shuva, which was vav Tishrei of Taf Shin Chaf He, the Rebbe's mother became very sick. She was actually not feeling well on Erev Shabbos. The Rebbe visited her Erev Shabbos, and, uh, he didn't see her, he didn't hear much from her. I guess he was expecting Abar Yonok was supposed to go visit her in the morning, and the Rebbe apparently waited by Shacharis for news of his mother's condition, and it looked like she was okay in the morning, but as the day went on, her condition got worse. Uh, after Mincha, the Rebbe was called to her house because things were looking pretty serious. This was, I guess, around four o'clock, at least according to the Der Her article that I read in preparation. I think it was around four o'clock, they said, that the Rebbe visited her and, uh, and things

04:00 Speaker 1 were not looking good at all. She was having trouble breathing. They had three doctors there. All three doctors said she had to go to the hospital. The Rebbe pushed back, but then when, when Dr. Zelikson made up the third doctor, said she had to go to the hospital. The Rebbe said, "If three doctors say she has to go, what am I gonna do?" And he said she can go to the hospital. According to this Der Her article, the Rebbe rode with her in the ambulance on Shabbos. That's what the article says, that the Rebbe got in the ambulance with her and rode with her on Shabbos, which is, of course, completely motzer because this is for, uh, this is for keeping somebody alive longer. The menuchas nefesh of a woman who's about to give birth or of somebody who's, uh, in danger, you're allowed to ride along with them if there's a danger to their life by not doing so, and obviously, the Rebbe was calming her by being there. In any event, nobody else was allowed to ride along because they weren't necessary. So a bunch of Bachurim got together and started walking to the hospital. They got, they got a Shabbos goy to bring food, and they figured the Rebbe might eat a seudah, and they walked to the hospital, and they waited in the hallway and said Tehillim. Uh, Bachurim, older Chassidim, a whole group walked to the hospital. The Rebbe had several medical suggestions on how to help. Apparently, none of

04:51 Speaker 1 his suggestions worked, although the doctors said they tried them. At around six o'clock, she was, uh, sh-- Around six o'clock, Rebbetzin Chana passed. Uh, there was a interesting Halachic moment there, too, that has nothing to do with our Halachic moment, but it's just relevant, I guess, because you see the Rebbe constantly asking that he wants real shailas answered by real rabbonim. Uh, they brought him his food after she'd passed, and they told the Rebbe, "Would you, uh, would you like to eat?" And the Rebbe said, "I'm not sure it's motzer to eat right now. I'm not sure in this situation I'm allowed to eat." He asked, "Is there a Rav here who can pasken whether I'm allowed to eat? Rabbi Groner, we don't have Mendel here today, but Rabbi Groner, Mendel's grandfather." Rabbi Groner said to the Rebbe, "I'm a Rav, and I pasken you're allowed to eat. Go eat." The Rebbe said, "I'm not gonna eat." So I don't know what exactly that means. Uh, but in any event, the Rebbe did not end up eating. Uh, ultimately, the chavre nekudsha entered. There, there was a funeral the following day. One note that I noticed throughout this entire story is that every time Bachurim showed up, the Rebbe was unhappy to see them there. The B-- He didn't want the Bachurim at the hospital. He didn't want the Bachurim at the funeral. He wasn't happy that the Bachurim were, uh, were at the Shiva minyan bichlal. Uh, the Rebbe does not seem to have

05:51 Speaker 1 wanted Bachurim around for this. On Erev Yom Kippur, the Rebbe was still sitting shiva. And on Erev Yom Kippur that year, the Rebbe did not give out Lekach. I believe he did give out by Hoshana Raba, but not that Erev Yom Kippur. Mincha was at four o'clock. This is what the Yomim say. The Rebbe davened Mincha at four o'clock. He went to mikveh according to the Yomim at six o'clock. So it'd be very close to hashech after Mincha. Obviously not what he wanted, but it was what he did. And he gave Birkat HaBabim twice that year. Once he said it very quietly. Rebbe HaKadosh told him, "No one could hear you. Could you do it again?" And the Rebbe said the entire thing again louder for everybody else to hear in a bigger setting. That was the Rebbe's shiva Erev Yom Kippur in the fastest possible way. Now, to our specific question, what is somebody allowed to do on Erev Yom Kippur? Can they go to mikveh or not? This is basically addressed in Shulchan Aruch. So it really isn't an enormous question. It becomes a bigger question when you want to nudge it a little bit. So we have here in Shulchan Aruch, this is in Orach Chayim. You'll find it in six oh six four. The, let me just make it a little bigger. Says here, uh, when it comes to Erev Yom Kippur, , you're allowed to go to mikveh on Erev Yom Kippur and get your malkos whenever you want. But

06:51 Speaker 1 as long as it's before nighttime, go get malkos, don't go to mikveh at night. Why? On Erev Yom Kippur, it's very important not to go to mikveh at night. You're not allowed to-- Rechitza is an actual issue. You're really not allowed to be in the water. we don't make a berakhah on the tevilah. Now, there's a Rama here. The Rama is very important. The Rama says, um, . Uh, you don't have to only go to mikveh. You only have to dunk once. You don't have to do vidui. It's, uh, for kari. You can also pour tish kakab on your head. That'll work, too. And here's the part we need. And look at that. Someone has someone die between Rosh Chodesh and Yom Kippur, just like the Rebbetsin did. It is motzer to wash yourself and also motzer to go to mikveh on Erev Yom Kippur. because Yom Kippur is a vatol shiva. Notice the lashon here. Yom Kippur, just like any other Yom Tov, is going to get rid of shiva. Therefore, Erev Yom Kippur has the status of an Erev Yom Tov, and the din by an Erev Yom Tov is that you are allowed to wash on an Erev Yom Tov for somebody sitting shiva. Even though we have a custom that a person actually shouldn't be washing the entire shlachim, something that does not get canceled by, uh, by, by a Yom Tov or by Yom Kippur, it's allowed because it's a tfilas mitzvah. Now, there's a Magen Avraham here that we're

07:57 Speaker 1 gonna need because in a second, we're gonna see the Rebbe had a long conversation with many Rabbanim about this inyan, and they're constantly quoting this Magen Avraham. So we do need to look at the Magen Avraham, and then, uh, we're gonna look at a Shulchan Aruch Harav, and then we're gonna look at the discussion the Rebbe had with other Rabbanim about this. So the Magen Avraham says that this entire thing that the Rama is saying is a little strange because of . It's actually allowed for any Yom Tov. Yom Kippur is not special. So bringing these dinim by Yom Kippur, it's unclear why the Rama feels the need to bring these dinim by Yom Kippur because the din is the same on Erev Yom Tov. Any Erev Yom Tov, the person will, right before, uh, right before Yom Tov, they're gonna go to mikveh, but not, uh, not necessarily early. Maybe he thinks that practically, . Maybe the Rama holds that in all cases, whether it's Erev Yom Kippur or Erev Yom Tov, you're really only allowed to go to mikveh if somebody's sitting shiva right before Yom Tov. And since on Erev Yom Kippur, you can't really cut it that close. It's risky to cut it that close. What if somebody ends up going into the water on Yom Kippur itself and doesn't realize it? Therefore, perhaps he's allowing, perhaps the Rama is allowing an earlier tevilah. This is something the Rebbe is going to like. Perhaps the Rama is allowing an even earlier

08:59 Speaker 1 tevilah than we would normally allow. So just to unpack, 'cause I know we're moving quickly. On Erev Yom Tov, we know the din is that a person has to go right near sunset. On Erev Yom Kippur, the Magen Avraham raises the possibility that he can go a little bit earlier than that, so that he doesn't run up into Yom Kippur itself and end up going mikveh on Yom Kippur. The Bach says perhaps even he, he could even go before Tfilas Mincha. And this is what the Rebbe would like the most. The minhag is to go before Mincha. The Rebbe would like to go before Mincha. And we do have a Bach that's quoted in Magen Avraham that would appear to allow a person on Erev Yom Kippur, not Erev Yom Tov, but Erev Yom Kippur specifically, to go before Mincha. Why? Because we don't wanna cut it too close. But for us, practically why? Because it's nice to go, uh, before Mincha. It says that . So he says that's not necessarily the opinion of the Rama. The Magen Avraham doesn't think the Rama is echoing the Bach. But nonetheless, we have this Bach. Now, continuing. Nearly, this is the Magen Avraham talking, I think. The Bach says, "I don't think we're really..." I'm sorry. The Magen Avraham says, "I don't really think we're reading the Bach correctly. I think even the Bach is telling you that you have-- that you can only go one or two hours before, before, uh, before sunset." But not,

10:08 Speaker 1 not way before that. You can't do like a . And this is also what we should do. And this is what we should do anyway. And he says, "This is why." He says, "There's a minhag to go after the Sudah." So there's a minhag to go pretty late. as is explained earlier. So when it comes to an avel, why not be strict? Uh, what he's saying here essentially is that there's multiple minhagim about when to go to mikveh on Erev Yom Kippur. One of them is to go after the Sudah. So since there are people going then anyway, and this also won't run up against any of the halakhic problems, may as well have the avel go as late as possible because there is a minhag anyway to go after Mincha. So why push the avel earlier into an area of safek? If you look at this last line here, that's also what he's saying. Since in theory, this person could always go a little bit later in the day, why put yourself into a possible situation of isur by going much, much earlier? It might not be that that-- It might be that that's not allowed. He also quotes a Levush here that we're gonna need just a little bit. The Levush says, and that's a ta'at sefer. It's a mistake. What he means to say is, is . I'm sorry. The mistake is . The correct here says . The Levush is our most lenient source. The Levush says that an avel can

11:14 Speaker 1 go until chatzet. I'm sorry, not until chatzet. He can go after chatzet. He says that once chatzet hits, once midday hits, says the Levush, you can already go to mikveh. He's our most lenient source, but again, the Magen Avraham does not want us to do that because some people say you have to wait until evening. Let's look at the Shulchan Aruch Harav, and then we'll put it all together. Shulchan Aruch Harav says, it's in six oh six fourteen, . He says it's motzer than to go to mikveh on Erev Yom Kippur. Because Yom Kippur is like any other Yom Tov. which will get in the way of shiva, which means Erev Yom Kippur will be eligible for the same rules that Erev Yom Tov is eligible, which is that they can go to mikveh early. And the psak from the Alter Rebbe is, it should be as close as possible to evening, which would seem to put us in a territory where we could not possibly do this earlier in the day because we have the Alter Rebbe, and we are a little bit stuck. I wanna summarize these opinions quickly, and then I want us to look at the discussion that the Rebbe had with the other Rebbeim, which will, I think, frame our letter properly. So according to the Rama we saw. According to the Rama, it's mutar to tevel on Erev Yom Kippur because Yom Kippur is mevatel shiva. And even though that would still be an issue because we don't, uh,

12:18 Speaker 1 we don't wash ourselves through the entire shloshim, it's different by a tefilas mitzvah. We had a Bach that said that on a normal Erev Yom Tov, it's only mutar close to hashecha, close to nighttime. And since on the Erev Yom Kippur, we can't risk cutting it that close, maybe we can allow it a little bit earlier, maybe even before Mincha. And we had a Levush that was even more lenient that said that from chatzes onward, we can allow it. But then the Magen Avram came in, and he said, "No." He said, uh, "We can't take Levush's leniency. Even Bach really, even the Bach really is only allowing it one or two hours before nightfall. And since anyway a lot of people are gonna go after the soda, there's no reason to even enter into the problem. Definitely go as close to the evening as possible." And that does seem to be the way that the Shulchan Aruch HaRav paskens, that they should be going as close to the evening as possible, and I'm not sure we're going to find a heter here to let somebody go before Mincha. Now, this is printed in, uh, Teris Menachem, but it's also printed in, uh, Menachem Tzion, and it's also printed in Shulchan Menachem. The version here is the most exciting. I picked the one you'd like the best because this one's a conversation, and all the other ones, they just summarize the outcome, and it's much more fun when it's a conversation. So during the Rebbe Shiva,

13:12 Speaker 1 basically every Rav who walked into the room or every Rebbe who walked into the room, anybody with any Halacha credentials whatsoever, the Rebbe asked the same question, "Can I go before Mincha? Can you find me a heter to go before Mincha?" So He says already from the beginning of Shiva, the Rebbe was asking this question to everybody who walked in. He was visited by many Admorim and every-- and many Rabbonim, and he would constantly have a shakla v'tarya with them about this. And here is a summary of the back and forth that the Rebbe had with these Rabbonim. The Rebbe-- one of the Rabbonim told him that there's the Magen Avram. We saw that Magen Avram. And he said that Magen Avram brings the Bach. The Bach says, The Bach says that you can go to mikveh even when it's still daytime, tefilah ken to this Mincha, even before Mincha. And although that is it sounds like according to the Bach what you could do, and it sounds like the Magen Avram would maybe agree, is that you could just do a really late Mincha and then, or a Mincha, like one or two hours before Shkiah, and then sneak in a tefila right, uh, before that Mincha 'cause that would be within the one to two hours, and you could still do it before Mincha. Sounds like the Bach would allow this. The Rebbe said back, when it comes to Erev Yom Tov when it comes to a normal Erev Yom Tov, we can't

14:18 Speaker 1 do that because the maskana in Poskim is that it has to be samuch la'hashecha, as close as possible to evening. When it comes to Erev Yom Kippur, there might be more wiggle room. And the Rebbe here is making a chidush. I didn't find this anywhere besides from the Rebbe. The Rebbe makes a chidush. The Rebbe says, when it comes to Erev Yom Kippur, says that maybe, says the Rebbe, Erev Yom to Erev Yom Kippur is not Erev, is not an Erev Yom Tov. Maybe Erev Yom Kippur is a Yom Tov. Now, it's true, in many dinim, it's not a Yom Tov, but in some dinim it is. So Yom-- if Erev Yom Kippur is itself a Yom Tov, then it wouldn't have the dinim of an Erev Yom Tov. It would have the dinim of a Yom Tov itself. If it has the dinim of a real Yom Tov, then there is no shiva at all, and you can go at the very beginning of the day. You can go when you wake up in the morning. It doesn't have any of the dinim of Yom Tov, uh, of, of Erev Yom Tov. It has all the dinim of Yom Tov. So the Rebbe says, but here we're saying maybe the Yom Kippur itself, maybe Erev Yom Kippur itself is ve'echal avelas. Maybe when you wake up in the morning on Erev Yom Kippur, there's no avelas at all. Maybe and then therefore, the Rebbe says it would make logical sense that we could allow

15:17 Speaker 1 an earlier tefila, even for tefilas Mincha. Um, the Rebbe then mentions that there's also a difference between tefilat Mincha and achar Mincha in that which one's tied to Yom Kippur, that Yom Kippur really starts at Mincha. The Erev Yom Kippur is much more seriously taken at, uh, taken in at Mincha 'cause that's when we say Vidduy. So there's also a specific inyan to, uh, to maybe go after Mincha because that would connect it to Yom Kippur. So Mincha does seem to be a dividing line here, and the Rebbe recognizes it. Then he goes on. But he says, "What can we do?" The Magen Avram says that we cannot be that lenient for the reasons that we already discussed, because we can already do it late, we can always do it later in the day. It sounds like Erev Yom Kippur doesn't actually get in the way of gezere shiva. Uh, it sounds like we just don't have the wiggle room we'd hoped to have, even though the Rebbe has some logical reasons why we should. The Rebbe says the most important point. The Alter Rebbe does ask him. The Alter Rebbe does want us to do it as late as possible. So it sounds like, says the Rebbe, the meisvara, um, that would allow us to do it much earlier is not accepted by the Alter Rebbe, so what can I do? So to summarize what we just, summarize what we just read, um, the Rebbe's chidush here. The Rebbe says maybe we can say

16:23 Speaker 1 since Erev Yom Kippur has its own din of Yom Tov, that it shouldn't have the usual dinim of an Erev Yom Tov and should have a din of Yom Tov itself, and you should be allowed to wash earlier. However, uh, he concludes that he, he can't do anything about that theory because that theory does not play out in the Magen Avram or the Alter Rebbe, so he's looking for other heterim if possible. Now, I will read this to you at the end, maybe if we have a second. Let's just go back to our letter. Now, going back to our letter, our letter now is framed in this discussion. And by the way, there's a note down here that it's possible that our letter is in the wrong volume, just for the record. It's possible this letter was sent ten years later. It's also possible, says the footnote here, that this was a letter from Tuv Shin Chaf He that got thrown into the wrong volume, but vigorous, it just kind of got pushed on its date. So it's possible that it was dated wrong, but also possible that just somebody sent the Rebbe a follow-up letter ten years later when they found something. In any event, now let's look at this letter. The Rebbe says, "Thank you very much. You found the Aharon, that somebody, that this sefer, Leket Yeshurun, which is from the, uh, Trumas Hadeshen or from the Minhagim Trumas Hadeshen, says that miktzas, that says that you only need to keep miktzas

17:16 Speaker 1 hayom. So that would sound like, much like the Levush, much like maybe one of the lenient ways of reading the Bach and not the Magen Avram's way of reading it, that maybe you could go to mikveh even earlier in the day. However," says the Rebbe, "it's still not clear to me whether you can do it before Mincha. I'm not sure whether the Leket Yeshurun would do that, so I still haven't found my heter." Um, which means, by the way, this is the maskana. The maskana is we're gonna follow the Alter Rebbe, obviously. That's the din. Ask any posek, they'll tell you that the din is that in such a situation, Rachmanah Litzlan, the avod should, uh, should go an hour or two before, uh, before, um, before the sun sets. They should go after Mincha. This is the Halacha Besukkah. Nonetheless, we see here the Rebbe's continuing, possibly for ten years later, at least according to one version of this letter, the Rebbe continues to look for a heter that would have allowed him to go earlier, and the hunt is still on. So if you would like to take on this mission yourself and try to find-- This would be something fascinating to write up if you could find, uh, one that hasn't been found yet. People continued to send the Rebbe possible heterim, and the Rebbe was constantly dayen for them, but he was always looking for one. Uh, we have a second left, so in our final second, I do wanna read

18:13 Speaker 1 this section down here just 'cause it's a lot of fun. Uh, a section that we skipped near the end of this, um- is that at the shiva, the Rebbe also had a conversation with the current at the time Munkacs Rebbe, who I believe was a son, possibly a grandson, I have no idea, but certainly a descendant of the Minchas Elazer. As we mentioned in this shiur many times, the Rebbe was very fond of the Minchas Elazer. The Rebbe really enjoyed, as far as we can tell, the Minchas Elazer's sefarim. He certainly said he did. And, uh, we have a little note here about that that is just a fun and interesting way to end that's a little bit less... Uh, I know this was a very halachic shiur. We do that sometimes, but, uh, this is a little more of a story. So it says here, the Rebbe asked the Rebbe of Munkacs, Maybe he said that the Minchas Elazer answered my question and it's in a that has not yet been published. Do you have anything forthcoming? Doesn't sound like you did. And along the way, although he didn't have such a thing in the works, the Rebbe did mention when it comes to publishing his works, uh, how important it is to publish the Minchas Elazer's works in com-completely. The Rebbe really went on to praise the Minchas Elazer . Says the Minchas Elazer is just the best when it comes to, uh, , making a decision about the bottom line of things.

19:20 Speaker 1 In addition to the back and forth. We have a lot of really good Halacha sefarim nowadays that will bring you every shitah, but you really can't find a lot of people who are willing to put in writing what the maskana is, and the Rebbe says the Minchas Elazer was the king of this. I'm paraphrasing. He says the Minchas Elazer really is the best at bringing you all the opinions and then telling you actually what he thinks you should do. And then he tells a story. So the Rebbe says, "One time I saw the Friker Rebbe writing a letter, and he filled the first five or six lines of the page just with praises." And we've seen letters, and, uh, letters from the Rebbe, sometimes the Rebbe will put, I don't have any examples right here, sometimes the Rebbe will put two or three lines of praises for a big Rab at the top of a letter. Says here, the Friker Rebbe once wrote five to six lines of praise for somebody. The Rebbe had never seen that before, and he asked the Friker Rebbe, "Who are you writing that many praises to?" And the Friker Rebbe said back, "Oh, that's to the Minchas Elazer." To give you an idea of how our Rebbeim feel about the Minchas Elazer, about Munkacs in general, you have that right here. The Rebbe then continued to say, as they continued talking, that he himself used his sefarim whenever necessary, So the Rebbe says that he himself uses the Minchas

20:23 Speaker 1 Elazer sefarim and, uh, and is a big... I don't wanna say-- How do I say this nicely? I was gonna say is a big fan. Doesn't seem right by a Rebbe. Really enjoys and appreciates the works of the Minchas Elazer. In any event, the super fast and literally 30-second summary of our entire shiur is that the Rebbe from the shiva all the way onward, maybe, maybe for years and years after that, was always looking for a chet that would have allowed him to go to mikveh before Mincha on Erev Yom Kippur. Of course, there was a lavush that would have allowed it, and maybe there was a bath that would have allowed it. We just don't see it in Halacha Pesuka. We have the Alter Rebbe saying that he has to go much later. The Maggid of Dubno seems to conclude that way as well. And although people brought the Rebbe various ideas from various places, the Rebbe never found one that he was quite satisfied with, as far as I know. Which means that the hunt is on. Thank you all very much.

21:05 Speaker 2 Perfect. Perfect. I think the only thing that stands out for me in this whole thing is how, how much bitul the Rebbe has in this whole thing. So you mentioned it, to turn to Rabbonim and to inquire as opposed to the Rebbe, you know, finding and saying a psak, I think it's just so telling because it happens so many times over and over again, where the Rebbe just completely relies on, on, on, not just tells other people to rely on Rabbonim, but also himself, doesn't see himself as a posek to, to, to pasken on these things. I think it's, uh, I think that's just also a fascinating part of this whole story. And another thing in general, a lot of these conversations, like these shiva conversations, there's tons of gold in these things. A lot of, like, fantastic, amazing from Teshuvos Minchas, from Teshuvos Chaf Av, Chaf Heh, whatever. There's so much interesting stuff there. It's just whatever.