הרבי והכותל המערבי

00:02 Speaker 1 This is Iggros, and I am starting this Iggros year. Actually, wasn't gonna start this way, but I have to. I'm starting by announcing that we now have one thousand listens. We've reached the one thousand mark on the podcast. I think that's pretty cool. This is, uh, this is not our thousandth episode, but it is our thousandth listen. Uh, we are looking at a letter today from Chitas Elul. Doesn't have a date on it, so it could be exactly fifty years ago. This is from the beginning of Elul of Tav Shin Lamed Gimel, fifty years ago. The letter is Yud Tav Tav Tadek Beis, and it has a very strange herut from the Rebbe. Very strange instruction that the Rebbe gave somebody. So strange that below the line they try to explain themselves, and there is a which always makes me a little nervous. It does say right here not to publicize this, Um, and it's not fifty years later, it's published in Iggros Kodesh. I figure we can publicize it, but this letter does say, "Do not publicize this." So that is a, a warning for us learning this letter that this is not a herut right? Because the Rebbe would want to peer some of the This is a herut to just one individual. That is important to note. However, we're going to then use it to dive into a bigger discussion of the Rebbe's actual shita on the matter. So the letter, without any further ado, is about visiting the Kotel, visiting the

01:07 Speaker 1 Western Wall. Look down here first just to get the context. This is written to Binyamin Shochat, and, uh, he wanted to visit He wanted to visit seven seventy, he wanted to see the Rebbe with his family in the year of Hakel. The Rebbe says back to him, He was living in Eretz Yisrael. The Rebbe says, "I do not want you to leave Eretz Yisrael. There's no to, uh, to rush to leave Israel to visit me." So the Rebbe does not want him to visit from Eretz Yisrael with his family. The Rebbe says further, point two, It's inappropriate to come visit me specifically because you're asking an in the year of Hakel. I guess It would be for your wife and for the children. They should live long. So the Rebbe is saying, "Instead of visiting me, what I would prefer you do instead is take your wife and children down to the Kotel and say psukim that have to do with Hakel on Halomoid Sukkot by the Kotel." Now, this could be taken as a right? People could read this and say that Minag Chabad is in the year of Hakel to go down to the Kotel on Halomoid Sukkot and to say psukim by the Kotel. But then the Rebbe says in three, I don't want this publicized. So this is not a Minag Chabad as far as I know, to go down to the Kotel specifically on Halomoid Sukkot and say psukim by it, but the Rebbe is using it as a substitute

02:23 Speaker 1 for visiting him. If we look below the line, Rav Wolf has a little more context from the way that he remembers the story. He says in his diaries, the Rebbe told their son, Binyamin, that he should, uh, that instead of visiting the Rebbe he should instead visit the Kosel once during Selichot and once during Halomoid Sukkot. And, uh goes on the herut to visit the Kosel on Halomoid Sukkot. So what we have here is somebody writes to the Rebbe saying they very badly want to visit him, and the Rebbe says, "I have an alternative for you. I don't want you to visit me. Instead, go visit the Kotel." This could lead us to possibly believe that the Rebbe sees visiting the Kotel as analogous, as similar, as powerful, like visiting the Rebbe himself. Now, that would be very strange. The reason why that would be most strange is that at least in the Chabad culture, I never heard mention of the, of the Kotel as being a significant thing. There's a Midrash that says that the Shechinah never left it. We know that it's, it's historically and emotionally significant to the Jewish people, but I don't think most of us who, who grew up around Chabad heard a lot about the Kotel. This is something that they talk about in other circles we barely talk about. We don't-- certainly it's not on our tefillin bags. It's not on our pareches usually. We don't talk about the Kotel very much, and other groups do. So, uh,

03:28 Speaker 1 based on this letter, I wanted to jump into a larger discussion of how seriously Chabad takes the Kotel, whether we normally say that it rises to the level of visiting a Rebbe, ri-ri-rises to the level of Mekubal Tzedekim. Put another way, if a person has a choice of visiting the oil, visiting seven seventy or visiting, uh, or visiting the Kotel or visiting Maaras HaMa'anot, are, are these equal things? Are these similar things? Are there priorities? That's what we're looking at today. And for that, I have some letters on your screen. We're gonna go back in time significantly to a letter from the Rebbe Rashab. The Rebbe Rashab mentions the Kotel HaMaaravi. He mentions it when he's talking to Menuchah Rachel. Now, I had to look up the dates because in my head, the Rebbe Rashab was born after Rebbetzin Menuchah Rachel died, but they, they actually overlapped by twenty-eight years. So the Rebbe Rashab would have been twenty-eight years old, uh, at maximum, would have been twenty-eight years old when he wrote this letter because when he was twenty-eight, Menuchah Rachel died. Menuchah Rachel, of course, is the daughter of the Mitler Rebbe who went to settle Eretz Yisrael. She went to live in Hebron, and she began the Chabad presence in modern Eretz Yisrael. Okay. So Iggrot Rashab wasn't really modern. It was long before that. Iggrot Rashab, volume one, page four. Excuse me. The Rebbe Rashab writes to Rebbetzin Menuchah Rachel, He says, "No, please." When you do visit Yerushalayim, 'cause she lived

04:35 Speaker 1 in Hebron, He says, "Please daven by the Western Wall." "And please mention us for Teva, uh, for, uh, for all sorts of good and for, uh, ruchniyus and gashmius." So the Rebbe Rashab asks Rebbetzin Menuchah Rachel to daven for him and his family at the Kotel, which certainly does give a certain primacy to the Kotel that I might not have expected. We have several letters from the Friediker Rebbe that discuss the Kotel. One is in volume two, page four twenty-one. This one's just a quick one where he talks about its significance, the Rebbe Sholom Ubracha, and he says, "I was very happy to receive your letter." "I was very happy to hear that you all mentioned us by the Kosel HaMaaravi. I was happy to hear that you davened for us by the Western Wall." Now that's to be fair, the Friediker Rebbe might just be being nice. Somebody writes to you saying, "I davened for you by the Kosel." You write back, "Thank you for davening for me by the Kosel." But the fact that he mentions it specifically, I think might suggest that the Friediker Rebbe put some value in prayers that happen by the Kosel. This is really interesting. I don't know exactly what to do with this. This is in, uh, Iggrot Friediker Rebbe, volume four, page two twenty-eight. He's preparing a special gift and a special letter for a big donor who had helped the cause in Russia shortly after the joint pulled out, which is something we have a

05:41 Speaker 1 whole separate Iggros here on So there was a donor who was still keeping activities alive there, and the Friar could have wanted a very special gift made for him, and he sends a letter out saying that he wants somebody who really knows how to write nicely to write a real poetic thank you letter and to have people in Eretz Israel. He writes this to Shelem Ze'even, actually, and he wants people in Eretz Israel, different rabbanim to sign the letter to show that they all appreciate the support of this donor, and then to wrap it up in a pretty package with tablets on it. Now, read what he wants on the tablets. Then take this letter, and I want you to wrap it up tightly in a very nice bow-- in a very nice, uh, package. I don't know what... A tablin. A tablin. There we go. This should be in a, um-- It should have a covering of leather, and there should be like tablets on it. And on the tablets, these tablets should be both made of olive wood. And on one tablet, it should be a picture of the Kehilat Meravi, and on one tablet, there should be a picture of Ma'aras Hamachpelah. So these are images that the Friar could have was comfortable conjuring in his name. I think that this could, uh, this could almost justify, perhaps even directly justify a practice of putting these images on a pareches, of putting these images on a, a tefillin bag. The Friar could

06:43 Speaker 1 have doesn't seem to have a problem with conjuring these images, although we don't see it much in Chabad. He put it on a package that had his name attached to it, specifically wanted an image of the Kotel on one and an image of the, uh, of the Ma'aras Hamachpelah on the other. Something we discussed last time we discussed the, uh, the Kotel in this Shir is that the Friar could have visited Eretz Israel in nineteen twenty-nine, and he visited the Kehilat Meravi. And although he wasn't the specific cause, Chas ve'Shalom, of the Hebron massacre and the riots that took place in nineteen twenty-nine, Yidden visiting the Kotel was bedaftacht, and at least the cause of these-- um, cause of the massacre. If you were to ask the terrorists why they were murdering Jewish children, they would say that it's because they set up seats and chairs by the Western Wall. They considered this an unreasonable encroachment on their territory, so the Arabs massacred a bunch of women and children, and men, of course, too, in nineteen twenty-nine in Hebron, and it was in response to people davening by the Kotel. That same year, shortly before the Hebron massacre, the Friar could have visited the Kotel and davened by the Western Wall. He davened Mincha there, he said Tehillim, and he kissed the Kotel, which is something, again, that you don't necessarily always see as something we talk about in Chabad. I don't know if, uh, I think a lot of us might go to the

07:43 Speaker 1 Kotel and wonder if you're allowed to kiss the rocks. The Friar could have kissed the rocks and cried on the rocks, and he describes this in a letter, a heart-wrenching letter, to his daughter, the Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka, in volume fifteen, page fifty-nine. We'll read some of the lines from that letter. He says, . She writes to him saying, "I'm worried about your health. You're traveling a lot. You just went to Eretz Israel. You're not healthy, and you're, and you're overworking yourself." He says, uh, "There was a good deal of Agmas Nefesh in the trip. It was not an easy trip." He, he said, "I really pushed myself. I worked hard. I cried seriously about the fall of our Lubavitch." The, the Friar could have already been kicked out of, had to move from his hometown. "I kissed the stones of the Kehilat Meravi with a, with a, uh..." It's such a strange phrase, with a joy that was bitter and sweet. A bittersweet joy. There we go. A bittersweet joy. "At the Kotel, I mentioned all of our family members that they should, uh, have m- with mercy and with grace. There at the Kotel, I davened before Hashem and all those holy places. but not for every single one of the individuals that we won't embarrass the names of our, of our holy forefathers. While I was in Eretz Israel, I never slept more than two hours," he says. "I used every second. I was worried about every second. ." So and

09:06 Speaker 1 then the letter goes on. But basically, he says, "I really did overwork myself when I was in Eretz Israel. I used the time there." And just I think this is an important letter to illustrate our behavior around the Kotel. The Friar could have does not visit the Kotel and take a look and go, "Ah, that's interesting." He goes up to the stones, he cries on the stones, he davens for his family on the stones with a bittersweet, uh, a bittersweet, uh, what, a bittersweet joy. I don't know what that feels like, but the Friar could have describes it. Okay. So the Rebbeim are certainly not saying that the Kotel is not to be prioritized. We have the, uh, Rebbe Rashab asking Menachem Nachum to daven there for his family. We have the Friar could have using the image of it, thanking people for davening for him there, and himself going there to daven with tears. Let's look at how the Rebbe handles the Kotel. This first letter is the least exciting of our letters, but I wanted to point it out to you. Somebody was a person who, uh, I, I don't know who this was, a Meshuzvi Halevi. I don't know if it says down here who he is. Segal. I didn't look up his history. I'm sure he's very important. Anyway, the Rebbe says in this letter that, uh, I guess the person wrote to him saying that he might be-- it might be better for him to engage in a different activity

10:03 Speaker 1 on Motzei Yom Kippur, but his tradition for years had been to be the person who blows shofar on Motzei Yom Kippur by the Kotel. And the Rebbe says, "Definitely don't stop doing this." The Rebbe says down here, "It should be simple. I'm surprised you'd even ask the following question. Therefore, I'm writing it specifically because, uh, I'm surprised even by the question. Do not give up your good custom and your incredible merit, the greatest merit, of blowing the shofar on Motzei Yom Kippur next to the Kehilat Meravi. Happy is your portion that you merited that." The Rebbe seems to feel that this is such an incredible honor to get to blow the shofar by the Kehilat, that this is not something you could even ask about potentially giving up. This next letter, I think we're gonna read the whole thing because it's a very powerful one. This is about somebody who reached the age of bar mitzvah. When he went for his bar mitzvah, he put on coat-- he put on his tefillin for the first time by the Kehilat. So the Rebbe writes this. This is letter, uh, Tes, Tav Mem Tes. It's from the year Taf Shin Chaf Tes. This is very shortly. This is one year after the liberation of the Kotel. The Kotel was liberated, I believe in, uh, in Chaf Zion, right? Uh, the, the, uh, the Zionists in the room can, uh, can correct me. I think it was Chaf Zion. So this is like a year after liberation

11:11 Speaker 1 of the Kotel. A Jewish boy puts on his tefillin by the Kotel in Chaf Tes. It'd be what? Sixty-eight? Sixty-eight. It's an incredible merit that you got to put on your tefillin next to the Kehilat. It's not just that it's gonna leave an impression on you like every good deed does, you're gonna be keeping this mitzvah every single day You're also gonna keep the mitzvah of loving your neighbor so you can encourage others to put on tefillin. This should give you a special merit that goes on for a very long time. I, uh, I'm not sure that we have to read the whole letter. I think the main point that I wanted was that one. I don't think this is mentioned in the second paragraph. Yeah, let's keep it just to that for now. Okay, so he says it's an incredible merit that you got to put on tefillin by the Kehilat and the fact that you put on tefillin by the Kehilat should instill in you, uh, in, in a lifelong passion for tefillin, a lifelong passion for helping other Yidden to put on tefillin. So the Rebbe so far has talked about the incredible zchus of sefer by the Kehilat and tefillin by the Kehilat. Over here, we have-- I have my notes here. Let's talk about tillim by the Kehilat, going to the Kehilat, let's say tillim. This is a really interesting letter. This is a letter to, uh, to try to encourage people to not allow-- this is a Mi Hu

12:21 Speaker 1 Yehudi thing. So they wanted to allow people to convert incorrectly to Yiddishkeit, to use a reform, a conservative conversions, and then to join the Jewish people and to move to Eretz Israel. The Rebbe was very worried about this. It was one of his main inyanim, one of his main battlefronts, if you will, was Mi Hu Yehudi. I wanna read this top paragraph, even though it's not shayach to us because it's so interesting. He says, "Ludav yes Knesset Tisha B'Av." He says, "I want you to speak in the shul on Tisha B'Av, and if that's impossible, at least on Shabbos Nachamu, because that's a nechamah on inyan Tisha B'Av. That allowing non-Jews to become Jews using a geirus, using a conversion that is not halakhic and, uh, and telling them then that they're Jewish in, in proper and non-halakhic conversions, allowing them into the holy nation, which is similar to the Beis Hamikdash, is just like Tisha B'Av. That when we allow somebody who did not convert properly to enter the, to enter the Jewish people, it's like something that happened on Tisha B'Av. What specifically? On Tisha B'Av, non-Jews walked into the Beis Hamikdash, and he said, "When you allow people to convert to Judaism improperly, you're taking a goy 'cause he's still a goy. He didn't convert, and you're allowing him to enter the holy Jewish people without doing the proper conversions." The Rebbe says this is an inyan of Tisha B'Av, very similar to what happened on Tisha B'Av. We mourn that every

13:31 Speaker 1 single year, and that we should mourn this every single year that they're allowing non-religious conversions to take place. Anyway, if you scroll all the way down to the bottom, the Rebbe is pushing very hard different initiatives to help prevent this terrible gezirah of the Israeli government allowing non-proper converts into, uh, into Eretz Israel as Jews. And then one of the things the Rebbe asks is, I want people going to the Western Wall, if possible. I want a twenty-four-hour watch over the course of Tisha B'Av by the Kehilat, and that is that they should be learning Torah that's allowed on Tisha B'Av and saying tillim in a way that's allowed on Tisha B'Av next to the Kotel the entire Tisha B'Av for twenty-four hours. The Rebbe has a little bit of mercy on us. He says they can switch out and take shifts, so that it won't damage their health, that they're gonna be there the full twenty-four hours. But the Rebbe asked that year that there should be a twenty-four-hour watch by the Kotel of people saying tillim, showing, I think, that the Rebbe considers it a Makom Kodesh at the very least, that he's treating it the same way we would treat any other one of the Makom Kodesh, the same way that people go to Kivrei Tzadikim. The Rebbe is sending people to the Kotel specifically to daven for a-- against a terrible gezirah that shouldn't happen to the Jewish people, a terrible decree against us. One more, and this is a letter

14:36 Speaker 1 that we looked at last time, but I wanna bring it up again. This is a letter that we looked at, like, six or seven months ago. It's also from our volume. It's from the year Tof Shin Lamed Gimel. So this was fifty years ago, but this was, uh, I don't know, an other, right? An other. Somebody writes to the Rebbe that they're visiting the Kotel, and they expect to get a pat on the back, and they do not get that from the Rebbe. The Rebbe says, "You told me that you daven by the Kotel." And the Rebbe is not necessarily proud. The Rebbe says, "You have to make sure that when you visit the Western Wall, it's not that you're davening next to a historical site. It can't be something that just mentions the past. It also has to have an effect on your present and future. You have to live a life that fits what the Kotel is supposed to be reminding you of." So the Rebbe is not at all content with people using the Kotel as a historical place. I saw a letter that I'm not bringing right now, but if you ask me for it, I'll send it to you, where the Rebbe has-- goes into more detail of this, about how anybody who sees the Kotel as a historical place is something the Rebbe is not comfortable with at all. It's not history, it's present, it's future, and that, uh, the Kotel is a holy place, but it is not

15:37 Speaker 1 to be used as a historical place. It's to be used as a present and a future that inspires us to be better Yidden. we have a letter from volume thirty-one. The reason why it's over here and not over there on the screen is because, as I mentioned to you, chabadlibrary.com, and I'm really hoping somebody from that website will hear this podcast and fix this for us, has not put any letters up after our year. So anything that's from volume twenty-eight onward, we've gotta go to-- it's, uh, chacham and take screenshots. Okay, so Igros Kodesh volume thirty-one, page ninety-two, the Rebbe writes about how he wants people to visit Eretz Israel and how he wants people to visit the Kehilat. This is for anybody planning a trip pretty soon, this is your moment. "Since everything is and if something's happening to you, God wants you to see it, the following appears to be the case to me. You've turned to me into something that's not really my business. So this is just a fun introduction. The Rebbe says, "You mentioned something in passing. I know it's none of my business, but since you mentioned it to me, it's that I have to mention something to you." And here the Rebbe talks. Excuse me. Everybody agrees that the holy land is the holy land. Ask a non-Jew, "What is Israel?" They'll call it the holy land. It's something everybody agrees on, that it's holy. This is not because there are people buried there. It's not because of

16:55 Speaker 1 the cemeteries in Eretz Israel. What makes Eretz Israel a holy land? It has in it I guess. It's a living of the Beis Hamikdash. The the holiness of Eretz Israel is a living one, not a dead one. It's not because of the graves there, it's because the living holiness of the Beis Hamikdash is there. The Rebbe says specifically what gives Eretz Israel its holiness. I've never seen anything like this anywhere. The Rebbe says, "What specifically gives Eretz Israel its holiness?" Specifically the wall of tears, which is the Western Wall. The Rebbe says the thing that confers modern holiness on Eretz Israel, 'cause the Beis Hamikdash isn't there. So what do we have that's giving kedusha to the Eretz HaKodesh, the Rebbe says? The Western Wall. That's the source of it. Says it's not the Kevalim, and it sure isn't the Beis Hamikdash. It's the Kehilat. And everything else there that's in Eretz Israel that people visit, all these other special places, they mention, they remind us of the fact that there is a current holiness in Eretz Israel called the Kotel Hamaravi, which is just an incredible praise of the Kehilat, giving an idea of just how important this area is. Now, the Rebbe says, "Therefore." Therefore, the main outcome of desire to visit the land of Israel must be that then- that it should inspire you to live a life every single day in the spirit of that kedusha, uh, every place that you find yourself, when you return back to America, when you're

18:19 Speaker 1 in, uh, when you're in, uh... What's that? The UK? Yeah. When, uh, the, the most important thing is you have to live a life according to God's command. He says specifically that the, uh, air of Eretz Yisrael should be brought back into your home every single life, every single day should be lived according to Torah, and that you should live according to the Shulchan Aruch. So the Rebbe's message here is that there's no such thing as tourism. We don't visit Eretz Yisrael because we wanna see Eretz Yisrael, we wanna see the holy places. It's because we wanna be holier people. We visit Eretz Yisrael, and then we breathe in the air of Israel. We act- we inhale in Israel, and we exhale back into our homes and bring that holiness back with us, and if not, no point in visiting. There's no point in visiting Eretz Yisrael if it's not supposed to make you into a better Jew, and what a better Jew looks like is someone who keeps the Jewish law. I wanna mention a few things that I'm not gonna bring on the page just as an aside, and then we'll finish for the-- for today. A few things that are not in letters or that in letters, but we're only gonna mention in passing. One is that, uh, the Rebbe was personally involved in setting up the tefillin stand at the Kotel immediately after the Six Day War. This isn't an igras, as far as I know, but it is a letter

19:15 Speaker 1 from Maskires where the Rebbe writes to the Chassidim in Yerushalayim or in the area and says to them, "I would like a permanent stand set up there." He actually suggests the printing of the Shema cards. This is the Rebbe's idea to print Shema Yisrael and the berachos on nice laminated cards, and the Rebbe establishes the stand almost immediately after we win the Six Day War and get the Kotel back. This is one of the Rebbe's projects, the very successful tefillin stand by the Kotel. Another thing I wanna mention is that we've talked a few times about over the summer of nineteen seventy-three, the summer of our year that we're learning, the Rebbe kept pushing chinuch initiatives. He used that, uh, we needed to somehow defeat some enemy. Nobody knew what he was talking about. The Rebbe says in the Sicha that he himself did not know what he was talking about, but that some sort of inspired him to say that we needed children to be learning and davening to help destroy an enemy. And shortly after the-- shortly after the new year on Yom Kippur, the Yom Kippur War was launched, and the Rebbe says in the Sicha that the reason why it was such-- we saw such miracles during the Yom Kippur War was because of this preemptive measure to have children davening all throughout the summer. Part of that was that in the summer of nineteen seventy-three, the Rebbe did at one point call the Chassidim in Eretz Yisrael or the Maskir-

20:14 Speaker 1 Maskires called Chassidim in Eretz Yisrael and asked them to bring children to the Kotel and have them daven specifically at that place in the merit of what would ev-eventually be the winning of the Yom Kippur War. The other thing that I wanna point out, 'cause it's cool history that I don't think anybody knows, most people don't know it, I'm sure some people know it, but certainly I, I, I never knew anything like this. The Rebbe had a series of letters with a Rabbi Getz. Rabbi Getz was the Rav of the Kotel up until nineteen ninety-five. Uh, and he was the, he was the Rav there, and the Rebbe writes a few things to him. Two things that I think are really interesting for us. Uh, one is that Rabbi Getz was very much involved in the Kotel excavations and digging the tunnels and trying to find things underneath. The Rebbe was very against it. The Rebbe says the most important thing here is that I'm hoping you'll send me good news that you have completely ceased this digging underneath the Beis Hamikdash, that tunnels even in a way that's going to serve the Beis Hamikdash, even in a way that's going to help out or help sustain the wall, the Rebbe did not want any digging under the Kotel, and he asked Rabbi Getz very-- to stop it. As far as I know, Rabbi Getz did not stop it. As far as I know, Rabbi Getz was one of the main people involved in it.

21:13 Speaker 1 But in any case, he writes this to Rabbi Getz of the Kotel. The other thing that he says to him that's so interesting is that he thanks Rabbi Getz very much for setting up signs declaring that there needs to be tzniyus by the Kotel, that there needs to be mechitsas by the Kotel, that there needs to be rules by the Kotel, that the Kotel is not a place that anybody can just go and pray. It's a place, place that has to be treated with kedusha. He sends the Rebbe the various, uh, warnings and signs he put out and the Rebbe says, "Thank you, thank you for sending me these warnings and for putting them up in the first place." The Rebbe wants the Kotel to be a place that is, uh, that is holy for davening, and if you know what goes on in modern politics, you know just how important this particular letter is. So in summary, let's sum everything up. Uh, in our letter today, the Rebbe suggests visiting the Kotel as a possible replacement for visiting him personally. He says that this is not a letter that he wants publicized, this is not a herut haRebbe, but it does give us an idea of the supremacy of the Kotel that the Rebbe, at least in one case, saw the Kotel as a reasonable substitute for visiting him, at least in the year of Hakal, and that's definitely an emphasis we're not used to seeing in Chabad. But the truth is, when we

22:12 Speaker 1 look back, we found that it was actually a pretty old appreciation for the Kotel. Uh, we have the Midrash, of course, that says the Shechinah never left the Kotel Hamaravi, but we also have the Rebbe Rashab telling, uh, Rebbe Tzvi Elimelech of Dinov to please daven for him and his family there. The Friediker Rebbe invoking its image in a few letters and on his own visit, visit-- in his-- on his own visit leaning on the Kotel and, uh, kissing it and crying on it and begging for, uh, for mercy for his family from Hashem. We have the Rebbe emphasizing its importance as a place to daven, to do mitzvahs, and also elevating it, I think, as a pretty special place in several letters, including that one letter where he told us that the entire kedusha of Eretz Yisrael comes not from the graves there, but from the Kotel specifically. The Rebbe is also, however, careful in all of his letters to remind us that it can't just be a historical site, that a lot of people are not doing Kotel properly, that it needs to be something that inspires us in our day-to-day lives. Okay, that's it. That is the Rebbe on the Kotel. Questions, comments, complaints? Talking a little-

23:05 Speaker 2 Isn't there something along the lines that, uh, all the tefillahs goes up through the, um, Ma- uh, Maaras Hamachpelah?

23:14 Speaker 1 Yep. So there was a conversation with the Lalover Rebbe at the time. Um, I think Rabbi Shmuel was his name, something with a Shin. He was the Lalover Rebbe at the time, or maybe a relative Lalover Rebbe. There's a recorded conversation, that's how we know. It's printed in the Sichas as a recorded conversation between the two of them, and the Rebbe asked him that the Mitler Rebbe says the tefillahs go up through, uh, through the Maaras Hamachpelah and, uh, and the Midrash says the Kotel. I might have gotten it backwards. It might be that the Mitler Rebbe says the Kotel and the Midrash says Maaras Hamachpelah. Either way, there seems to be a steer between something the Mitler Rebbe says and what the Kotel says. The Lalover Rebbe responded to the Rebbe and said, um, and said, "Maybe it's that that was back then. That back then it used to go up through the Kotel, and nowadays it goes up through Maaras Hamachpelah." And the Rebbe said, "That can't be because the Halakha is that if you're living in America, you daven toward Yerushalayim. If you're living in Eretz Yisrael, you daven toward Yerushalayim. If you're living in Yerushalayim, you daven toward the Kotel. So it must be prayers still go up that way, so it can't be that it was just back then." And so then given-- the Rebbe then said, "perhaps that it stops at Maaras Hamachpelah, and then only after that goes to the Kotel Hamaravi, and then it goes up."

24:13 Speaker 1 So that was the Rebbe's, uh-- That's what you're thinking of. Yeah, it's a, it's a conversation-

24:16 Speaker 2 I think it's the opposite, but yeah, okay.

24:18 Speaker 1 Did I get it opposite? Very possible.

24:19 Speaker 2 I think. I'm, I'm not sure. I'm not a hundred percent sure.

24:21 Speaker 1 Totally possible it's the opposite. Whatever. He says the, the Rebbe's, uh, the Rebbe's compromise is that it stops at both. I don't remember where it goes last. Totally could be.

24:28 Speaker 2 All right.

24:29 Speaker 1 Yeah.

24:31 Speaker 3 I, I do, I f- I do remember and, that there's-- that there are those that argue on, in, in general, whether the Kotel Hamaravi has anything to do with the Beis Hamikdash at all. Now, those that say it really has, if you look at the physical geography, topography, and all that kind of stuff, the people, the scholars who really understand the build of the Beis Hamikdash and how it was and where it was, there's a very good chance the Kotel Hamaravi has zero significance to the Beis Hamikdash. Um-

24:56 Speaker 2 In what, in what re- what, uh, realm?

24:59 Speaker 3 Is it similar to this concept that, you know, when people see it as a holy place, therefore it gives it some sort of kedusha?

25:06 Speaker 1 I don't think we can say that based on the Rebbe's letters, 'cause the Rebbe, for example, in this letter that I have on the screen right now, it says He says that the Shechinah never left that particular Kotel Hamaravi. He says that the thing that's giving Eretz Yisrael kedusha right now is the existence of the Kotel Hamaravi. And in a lot of letters, the Rebbe very much, uh, very much attaches the Kotel to the Beis Hamikdash. Uh, for example, in this letter here, where he says the highest kedusha of Beis Hamikdash nowadays is only in the Kotel Hamaravi. So, uh, any, any excavations notwithstanding, the Rebbe Shlicha is very clear. The Rebbe Shlicha is definitely that the kedusha is inherent to the Kotel because of the Beis Hamikdash.