נישואין לפני אח או אחות גדולים

00:01 Speaker 1 This is our Igros here. We are looking at letters from exactly fifty years ago, as has been our tradition now for quite some time. And, uh, something that we do occasionally is if somebody's interested in our group, the people who listen to the share, the people who attend the share, if they're interested in finding out something about the Rebbe's position on a certain topic and we haven't covered it, people are welcome to, and I'm encouraging other people to, uh, send me a message and ask, and I'll go looking for it to see if it's in our year or some other year. You're allowed to submit topics is my point. So somebody did submit a topic. I don't know if I'm allowed to say who it was. I don't know if these things are confidential or not. I-- whatever. Um, somebody- Confidential. Huh? What'd you say? I said it's not confidential. It's not confidential. Ruby Lipson submitted this topic. Ruby submitted this topic. He asked, what's the Rebbe's position on what order people can get married? And that is, can a brother get married before a younger sister, a young-- older sister before a younger brother, an older sister before a younger sister, an older brother before a, before a... I'm sorry, a younger brother before an older brother. Is there a, is there an order ? And that's what we're looking at today. The reason I'm, the reason I'm showing you this letter, this one from the Tuv Shin Lammed Gimel is not so much

01:03 Speaker 1 because it is one of the most important letters on the topic, but just because it is in Tuv Shin Lammed Gimel, and we are trying to base everything on this year. So I did find, I don't know if there's a single year in Igros where somebody doesn't ask this question to the Rebbe. It is in almost every year somewhere, and I just have a small reference to it here. If you look down in footnote number one, this is letter Yud Tuv Tuv Kuf, Kuf Beis. Footnote number one down here says that he's asking about a shidduch for him before his older sister. This is a guy who wants to know if he can get married before his older sister. And the Rebbe writes back, The Rebbe doesn't answer that one. The Rebbe says, "This goes according to a posek." Now, the Rebbe is usually a lot more explicit. So again, the only reason I'm pulling this letter is because I like to attach it to Tuv Shin Lammed Gimel. But let's dive into some of the many, many other letters that the Rebbe has on this topic, and we'll try to put together something like a shita. Before we get into that, though, I do wanna give a small introduction. And, uh, the small introduction is that this is not some Kabbalah thing. Uh, as you probably know, it's a posek in the Torah kind of, that Lavan, this is Lavan's minhag. We stole this minhag from Lavan. Lavan says, I have a bakria here

02:07 Speaker 1 who can correct my pronunciation that a, uh, or at least my . That the-- Lavan says that there's a minhag that we don't marry off younger daughters before older daughters. Question is whether we actually hold like that. There does seem to be a legitimate halakhic problem with a younger sibling marrying prior to an older sibling. You'll find that in Yera Deah two forty-four eighteen. We're not gonna read it now, but you can look it up. There are some posekim who allow a younger boy to marry before an older boy. They think this is only a girl thing. The posek implies it's only a girl thing, right? We don't give the younger daughter before the older daughter. Maybe it doesn't apply to brothers. That's on the books as a possibility. There are also posekim who think that the entire rule only applies if they are both engaged, and we're just trying to figure out when to schedule the wedding. So there is a possibility, this is brought, this is raised by the Igros Moshe. Rav Moshe Feinstein held this, and this is a very famous leniency on the topic, is that we're just trying to, uh, when we say that we don't marry off the younger before the older, that just means that if they're both, they both have a shidduch, they're both engaged, and we're trying to figure out how to schedule the wedding, there is a rule that we're not allowed to schedule the wedding of the younger sibling before the older sibling, but

03:03 Speaker 1 that shidduchim, it doesn't matter at all. If, if the other one's not even, if the other one's not even in shidduchim or they're, they're not, that they don't have anybody, then totally marry the younger before the older. This is the Igros Moshe's very famous way out of this problem. And I think it's clear from all the letters of the Rebbe that he doesn't rely on this at all. Um, the Rebbe seems to reject this idea throughout his letters. But it's good to be aware that there is a, there is a major heter on the books, which is that it might just be an, it might just be a m-- a wedding order thing, not an engagement or a shidduch order thing. There is a Taz in Yera Deah two oh eight that you should be aware of because he thinks this is actually an isser. That it's not something that's a, that's a nice thing to do, derech eretz, a minhag. He thinks that there's an actual isser, that we are not allowed to marry a younger girl off, of before her older sister. Uh, again, this is a minority opinion, that nobody seems to really think that, that nobody seems to really take this seriously, that it is a full on isser. Uh, when it comes to weird combinations, like an older sister before a younger brother or an older brother before a younger sister, I got that backwards. A younger brother before an older sister, a younger sister before an older brother, where

03:58 Speaker 1 we have different genders among the siblings, um, once again, the posekim kind of go in all directions. When it's a younger brother getting married before his older sister, the Bach says not to do it, the Maharsham says you can do it, and the Chelkas Yaakov says to be strict. So this was the case that we just saw in our letter from Tuv Shin Lammed Gimel. The Chelkas Yaakov says to be strict about that when a younger brother is getting married before his older sister. Maybe that's why the Rebbe says you have to ask her up. When it is a younger sister getting married before her older brother, generally speaking, the posekim are lenient. We have a Chazon Ish, a couple others who are lenient in that case. Now, I said a second ago that the Taz holds it as a full on isser, but I told you that's a minority opinion. The truth is pretty much all posekim assume that this is an inyan in derech eretz, not an inyan in halakha, that it's polite not to get married before your older sibling. Uh, that's how the Maharsham brings it, that's how the Chasam Sofer brings it, and just about all modern posekim are working within that assumption. They're all assuming that this is derech eretz. Derech eretz isn't nothing, but we're not necessarily dealing with hard isser and heter. Because this is derech eretz, there are a few heterim on the books that are very well known that work according to everybody, and we'll

04:52 Speaker 1 see the Rebbe playing with them throughout these letters, so I want to introduce you to the halakhic heterim that are on the books. One, they're almost all from the Maharsham. The Maharsham has like four solid heterim to allow a younger sibling to marry first, and the Rebbe uses, I believe, all of them, or at least two of them very, very, very frequently. One of them is the one you've probably heard of, and that is mechilah. That is, if the older sibling gives mechilah, the older sibling forgives and says, "I'm okay with it. I don't mind if you get married before me," the Maharsham says, "That's fine." The Maharsham also says, "What happens if the sibling refuses to do that?" If y- the younger sibling's ready to get married, goes to their older sibling and says, "Will you please let me get married first?" And the older sibling's a jerk and says, "No." The Maharsham says if they refuse, you can still get married before them. This is just a, the mechilah is sort of a, uh, a formal thing, but it's not necessarily a, a active thing. There's another one in the Maharsham that if the older sister is twenty-two years old, that's the number he came up with. Once she's twenty-two years old, he says there's no hachpad at all. She's already, I guess, over the hill. I don't know what to tell you. Twenty-two is the number he puts on it. We're gonna see in the Rebbe that the Rebbe puts different numbers

05:46 Speaker 1 on this. He says maybe eighteen, maybe twenty. So we have a couple different numbers from the Rebbe, but it's definitely the case that if a o- older sibling is much older, an older sibling's, you know, forty, fifty, then we're not even talking about this anymore. Certainly, the younger sibling can get married before a significantly older sibling, uh, who's already, who's already, uh, far beyond the normal parasha of shidduchim. Of first . Uh, what about an older sister who's choosing not to be married? Uh, the Maharsham also says this is a hether. So let's say that, uh, this girl has an older sister, and she just doesn't wanna get married. She's never gonna get married. She says that she wants to be single forever. That also doesn't seem to be a problem. The Maharsham says, "Don't worry about it." And the other one is where the older sister is, is sick or has some sort of disability that makes it very difficult for her to find a shidduch, where we don't necessarily assume that she ever will find a shidduch, or we think that if she does, it'll take a very long time. The Maharsham is al- is also lenient there. Now, now that we know some of the Halakhic background, let's look at some of the letters. I have on your screen... Um, I'm gonna send you this. It's a, it's a really nice, if I do say so myself, summary of the Rebbe's shitas with different headings to make things easier to count. So

06:41 Speaker 1 the classic question, of course, is the younger sister before her older sister. We're gonna look at that one first. We have a letter here from where the Rebbe says, "I was pleased to receive your letter." And, uh, they ask the question, "Can the younger sister marry before the older?" And the Rebbe then says, "I want you to do the following things before the wedding happens." First of all, . Thing number one, in order to show that you are confident that the older sister will get married, the Rebbe wants the parents to set aside money for the older sister's wedding before the younger sister's wedding. I mean, the younger sister's ready to get married, but show your confidence in her. Start, start a savings account for the older sister's wedding. Thing number two, she should ask mechilah from her older sister. This is, of course, the advice of the Maharsham, the famous mechilah advice. Thing number three, do the wedding without so much, uh, don't make such a big deal about the chasuna. They say mitzvah, um . Okay. So the Rebbe also gives the advice that maybe they shouldn't do the wedding, maybe they shouldn't make the wedding an all-out, an all-out blowout affair because that might offend the older sister. And, uh, the Rebbe then writes at the end, "I'm waiting to hear the good news about the shidduch of your older daughter." So that's one piece of advice that we have from the Rebbe, sort of three tana'im, the three tana'im being that

07:58 Speaker 1 you have to set aside money for the older girl, she should ask the mechilah from the older girl, and you shouldn't make the wedding an enormous thing. Uh, don't make it such a total blowout affair. We have here in a letter from where the Rebbe gives similar advice. So somebody's asking, "What should I do about this? The younger sister wants to get married. The older one is not married yet." Ask her for mechilah, first of all. So this is not the wedding, this is the tana'im. He says, "Do the tana'im without making such a big deal about it." Remember, in our previous letter, the Rebbe said, "Make it somewhat of a muted wedding." Here he's saying, "Make muted tana'im." And don't schedule the wedding so quickly. This is a strange shita for the Rebbe because if you ask the Rebbe, "When should I schedule my wedding?" He usually says, "As soon as possible." Here he says, "Don't, don't rush to schedule the wedding." It should be God's will that in the meantime, while you're waiting to schedule the wedding, that she'll-- that this older sister is gonna find a match during that period of time. So push off the wedding a little bit. Don't push it off a lot, but, you know, don't, don't rush to get married because truth is, the older sister might end up finding her, finding her shidduch in the meantime. The Rebbe adds, we don't know, this is just a nice line. Maybe because she's not jealous of her sister

09:15 Speaker 1 and she forgave her sister . Maybe in the merit of the fact that the older sister forgives her younger sister . So he says, "Maybe the thing that-- Maybe whatever, whatever, whatever, uh, ikar there is l'ma'ala preventing this older sister from finding a shidduch, maybe the fact that she forgives her younger sister and lets her marry first will be the thing that allows her to find a shidduch." So there's a little bit of comfort for the older sisters out there who are forgiving their younger sisters. Perhaps that is a zechus for them. I have one more on this topic. Once again, . Once again, this is a younger sister before an older sister. The Rebbe adds a little bit of a Mashiach twist to this one. He said, We're living in the final days before Mashiach comes. Mashiach can only come when all neshamas are in bodies, when all the children who are supposed to be born have been born. So if the older sister has a total mechilah, she completely forgives her younger sister and tells her, "Sure, go get married," look at that. Says even better if it's in writing or in front of kosher witnesses. And of course, I'll allow it, but only-- uh, then i-in that case, I'll allow it, says the Rebbe, but only if the chasan is yerushalayim. In addition to the forgiveness I asked for, And the Rebbe says, "I also would like you to set aside money for the older girl's wedding," and this time he says

10:37 Speaker 1 to set aside money from the funds also of the younger daughter. In the previous letter, he only said from the parents. So we have here in, uh, in, in summary, in summary, what we have from the Rebbe is a couple of bits of advice for if the girl wants-- if a younger gir-girl wants to get married before an older girl. It sounds like we need consent. We need her, we need her mechilah. It sounds like the tana'im or maybe even the wedding should be restrained. It sounds like maybe the wedding should be pushed off a little bit if we think that the older sister is in the parsha and likely to get married relatively soon. The Rebbe adds that in that merit of the older sister forgiving her younger sister, that's a merit for her to get married too, and also a merit for Mashiach to come. And the Rebbe adds in at least one instance that he'd like to see this mechilah in front of Adam or in writing, and he certainly wants them to set aside money for the older one's wedding. These are pretty consistent pieces of advice from the Rebbe when it comes to, uh, when it comes to that. Now, I brought you two letters here where somebody doesn't ask about the wedding, they ask about looking for a shidduch. They say, "Can we look for a shidduch out of order? Can I start? Can I-- Is it a problem if my younger girl gets ahead of shidduch before the

11:32 Speaker 1 older daughter?" So in this, uh, in this first letter up here, uh, I gotta tell you the truth. These two letters appear to contradict to me. I think in one he says it's a problem, in one I think he says it doesn't. Um, this is something for us to maybe discuss in the group 'cause we're, we're relatively short on time. Looking at the second letter down here, says that the older sister has an to her and this younger one is already in the parsha. The Rebbe says, "Now, we-- I want you to look into a shidduch for your older daughter, and I want you to do it first." It's a father's responsibility to find shidduchim for his daughters. Apparently, the Rebbe says that the Rabbeim were very strict about Lavan's decree that we don't put the young girl before the older girl. It states . Only find a shidduch for your younger daughter after you've found a shidduch for your older daughter In this letter up here, the Rebbe says basically that he's not worried about it at all. He says, "The inyan fun tey lasei tsadas need bechira," the entire inyan of giving a younger one before the older one, "ez me'negea de chasna be'poel." It's only about the chasna. "Aver iz net negea oyf, uh, oyspil der reddin fun di shidduch." Right? So this, he says this is not about reading the shidduch. Um, so I don't know what to do with the fact that in these two letters the Rebbe seems to

12:42 Speaker 1 say the exact opposite, and I'm not sure what we would do le'halakha. Um, it could be, as in all cases with letters, that he's speaking to different kinds of people. That's always a possibility. But he does say in this letter in Yiddish that it's not an inyan at all, and in this letter in Hebrew he says that it is an inyan, and I really don't know. I'll put it in the chat. We'll think about it. What do we do when it's a younger brother versus an older brother? Now that we're leaving the sisters behind, younger brother versus older brother. I have here, they're in English because I pulled them from various places online. This is a ksav yad from Chabad. It's not printed in Nigras. The Rebbe says in this ksav yad that it is his considered opinion, uh, that he, he would answer this to anybody that when it comes to sons, don't bother with it. Doesn't-- This doesn't apply to boys at all. This is just a girl thing. We don't give the younger si-- We don't let the younger sister get married before the older sister, but, uh, and that's sometimes a problem, but with brothers, don't worry about it at all. He says especially when the younger brother is already, uh, twenty years old. This is the younger brother. When the younger brother's already twenty, we have to hurry up and get him married as quickly as possible. He said that it should-- we should explain to the older brother that

13:36 Speaker 1 assisting his younger brother in doing a mitzvah, uh, is like he's doing a mitzvah too, and in that merit he'll find a shidduch as well. So he says to kind of calm down the older brother, but that there's no such akpada. There is a thing that's printed in Mikdash Melech, another one that's not printed in Nigras as far as I know, where the Rebbe says a very similar thing. He says that this, uh, this does not apply to brothers, and brothers can get involved in shidduchim without waiting for one another, and that they should forgive, forgive one another completely. Over here we have a letter. This finally is in Yigras. This is, uh, from Tuv Shin Chof, where the Rebbe says, "Ma non m'chutav eda satsas nef adas avur b'nei." He says basically you have two brothers, the younger one wants to get married before the first one. He says here, uh, "Hanal hu b'yadi yosef as kamase hamaleha shel b'nei." He seems to say... Well, it's not really the phrasing of the letter. I'll be fair. The Rebbe says that you're telling me that the younger brother's gonna get married first, and you're also telling me that the older brother's on board for it. And the Rebbe says, "In that case, I'm very happy." That's not the Rebbe demanding it though. That's the Rebbe saying that he's happy to hear that the older brother is on board. I have one more letter from you here. It's a letter that's labeled Zayin Tuv Reish Mem

14:35 Speaker 1 Beis about two brothers. This one says, "Amavuga mimeno el ha'achim avuga ram el ha'shelech patlez adlei zeh v'shel dati bazeh." That somebody asked the Rebbe that the younger son-- younger brother's gonna get married first. The older brother says he doesn't mind. Is there anything to be concerned about? The Rebbe writes back, "Muvad daas me'achreinim bazeh. De'es v'achreinim bazeh." There are many opinions in the achreinim on this. "She'b'negea legil ben sh'meina esrei ein machpin hamakdim ha'amor." That we don't worry about this from age eighteen already. "Vefrat b'kigan da, shach mavugar, yimcha v'mechila Gemara." So this is in the previous letter the Rebbe said that when the younger brother is, uh, is, is twenty years old, he's already in the parasha and should be getting married. We don't care what his older brother's up to. Here he says as early as eighteen, that once the younger brother's eighteen, there's no akpada at all. "V'yesh machim leme v'karov leme, sh'ze atzim yes agul lamaher v'yeches efshim isfarach." Once again, the Rebbe gives the advice that the older brother, uh, being mevat there is going to be a chos for his shidduch. I think I said in the very beginning of the share in the intro that these ages apply to the older brother, and I didn't mean it. I meant the younger brother, just to clarify. Okay. How about the sister before the brother? This is the last one I have on the page for you. What about the sister getting married before her older brother? So I

15:36 Speaker 1 think back here, that was the same question we had over here. Over here, the Rebbe said you have to ask a rav. And we said that there's probably good reason the Rebbe says you have to ask a rav because that's a tricky issue when it's the sister before the brother. That is the younger sister befo-- the younger sister before the older brother. I just wanna not get things backwards. When it's the younger sister before the older brother, there's a lot of room for leniency. When it's a younger brother before an older sister, we have a bach that says not to do it. Right. So looking over here, we have a sister before the brother. So this is the younger sister getting married before her older brother, which we know from, at least from our Poskim, that generally speaking we're lenient about it. Let's see what the Rebbe says. "Bechlal ha'zman, cheiniyoke, o mashakeis ve sheyesh la ach gadol mimena v'shanam." She has an older brother. "Yesh l'saba v'akesh mechila et slei shesh as from mechila. Sheasas de b'fnei slei shemi Yisroel." Wow, he wants three here. He wants dayanim. "V'sheyamim shemeich u'l'veileiv hashalom" to prove that it's l'veileiv hashalom. I don't know why the Rebbe wants that. Generally speaking, we're lenient on this. The Rebbe seems to be very strict about this. He wants a bezdin of three in this case. "V'nei seval zeh, yishal eshu v'chen meduezer heim shala." Everybody has to set aside money, a certain amount of money for the, for the

16:41 Speaker 1 chasuna of the older brother. And I don't know why the Rebbe's so strict in this particular letter. So if we wrap up the Rebbe's opinion across all things and try to get a, a coherent summary here, it sounds like that when we have an older sister and a younger sister, we have a bunch of rules. That is that the older sister needs to consent. They should be restrained or muted, tenaiya, maybe even a muted wedding, maybe even a later wedding to give her a little more time to get married. Um, we have that the mechila shouldn't, uh, there should definitely be a mechila. Maybe it should even be in front of edim, maybe in writing. Money should be set aside for the older sister's wedding. And the Rebbe says, of course, that in that merit, the older sister will get married too. When it comes to which should, what order to, to, uh, to get shidduchim in, I think we have two letters that conflict each other, so I really don't know the Rebbe's shita on, uh, on how to seek a shidduch for your younger or older child. Um, I see two letters that seem to be opposites. Let me know if I'm wrong in the comments. Um, when it comes to brothers, it sounds like we don't really worry about them at all. The Rebbe says in a few letters we don't wor-worry about them at all. He does express that he's happy about the mechila, uh, but certainly once the younger brother

17:35 Speaker 1 has reached, has reached age, age eighteen or age twenty, the Rebbe is not concerned about, about one brother, about an older brother, about a younger brother being married before an older brother at all. And the last thing that we saw is when the sister is getting married before her older brother, the Rebbe seems quite strict. He wants the older brother to be meichal her in front of, uh, in front of three people, in front of three Jewish people, which is, it sounds to me like a bezdin, and again, to set aside money. Our letter that we looked at from Tuv Shin Lamed Gimel was, just to remind us, 'cause I don't remember, was . This is a brother who wants to get married before his older sister. So that is a, that is our third example. Brother wants to get married before the older sister, and the Rebbe there says that you have to ask a rav if the brother wants to get married before the older sister. Uh, that makes a lot of sense because in that particular case, the Bach does say that you can't do it, and the Chalikas Yonkin says to be strict. So the Rebbe is saying to be, that you might have to ask a rav. You might not even be allowed to do it. That might not be a, might not be a heter even via mechila perhaps. Sounds like that's a very serious case. Okay, I think we lined up every possibility, yeah? I think we, I

18:34 Speaker 1 think we did every permutation of brothers and sisters. Wonderful. Um, please, questions, comments.

18:41 Speaker 2 I have a quick question. The last letter.

18:43 Speaker 1 Yeah.

18:43 Speaker 2 The last letter that you just brought to the, uh, the, uh, younger sister in front before the older brother.

18:49 Speaker 1 Yes.

18:49 Speaker 2 There's, there's a line over there, the sec-- third line from the bottom. It says, "V'noseh bazeh, y'shalish hu," him, he should, meaning to say the, the, the guy who's writing to the rabbi that he wants to get married before his older sister. Is that what it is?

19:04 Speaker 1 Don't think so.

19:04 Speaker 2 'Cause it-

19:04 Speaker 1 I think what's happening here is that the husband's writing that he's about to marry a girl who is getting married before her older brother.

19:10 Speaker 2 Oh, that's what it is. Okay, fine, because that's what... I didn't understand what he was saying 'cause he's saying that he should give, and also, .

19:17 Speaker 1 If you look to the, uh, graph at the top, when it says .

19:19 Speaker 2 His shadchan and her parents.

19:21 Speaker 1 Yeah.

19:21 Speaker 2 His shadchan and her parents should put money.

19:23 Speaker 1 Right.

19:23 Speaker 2 Okay, fine. So that-- I didn't get that part. That's good. The other one is the one that you said that seems-- seemingly is contradictory, the Yiddish one, the-- those two that seem to contra-contradict each other.

19:31 Speaker 1 Yeah.

19:31 Speaker 2 So the-- in the first one, um, the rabbi is writing to the person that they're, you know, they're giving you a, a, a, a shadchan, right? And, you know, he says that the, the is more negai to the chasidun itself. Um, but it's not so much when you wanna just, like, talk shadchan, like when people wanna be masia. And even the trim it's not so important, right? As long as it's done, like, a little bit more quiet. And also because in the meantime, there could be a change, right?

20:04 Speaker 1 Yeah.

20:04 Speaker 2 So he's basically saying that, you know, there-- it's-- it-- the issue of getting married is more about getting married, not about talking shadchan, and it's not even about the trim as long as it's done quietly. In the second letter, this one here, he's writing that there's a... one for his older daughter. Um, the-- they don't have anything for his older daughter. They're only talking for the younger daughter. And he says he should look for a shadchan. Like, you should do-- you should be mistadel to look for the sh-- for, for, for, for, for the shadchan. He's not telling them that they shouldn't get married or they shouldn't do it. He says, you know, "Just double your efforts in looking, in looking for a shadchan for your older daughter." That's what it seems like. So it doesn't seem like it's really contradictory that much. Even though the second part he says that even though it says in the Pasuk, um, uh, . I don't know. It's a little-- It's, uh... I'm, I'm not a hundred percent 'cause the base there basically says, uh, . Like, he's-- here he's giving specifics that you should really double down the efforts on the older sister, and only after then make a shadchan for the second one. So it seems very clear here in this, um... Interesting. Okay. I, I thought maybe it was-- I thought maybe as I was reading, 'cause we're reading it so quickly, that it was about just the talking and not actually the rebbe giving,

21:20 Speaker 2 um, giving advice not to make the shadchan, but here it seems like he's actually saying clearly not to make the shadchan.

21:26 Speaker 1 Could be one of those cases where the letter was just sort of a... The, this second letter in Hebrew, it sounds like he's hitting this father pretty hard. I think maybe th-this could be one of those cases where the, the rebbe's not saying a, a general rule, but he's saying, "This guy needs to-"

21:37 Speaker 2 Right. That's what I was gonna say. I was gonna say it might not be a general rule. It might be that he's, that he is, that this is a specific instruction to a specific person based on the rebbe's knowledge of this person and their behavior or their, or their hishtadlus for their daughter. 'Cause in the other letters, he doesn't say that. He says, "It's gonna be a zchus. You're gonna get mechilah. If you set aside money, it's gonna be this, and the mechilah is gonna be a zchus." Here he's saying, "No, you, you re-- have a responsibility to work to get a shadchan for your daughter, and until that happens, don't marry off the younger one." To be more specific, 'cause the other-- the theme and the thread in all the other letters is quite different.

22:18 Speaker 1 Yeah, I think so too.

22:19 Speaker 2 And also, interestingly enough, in the boys' area, with the boys, they're getting married, different boys or whatever, there's... In some of the letters, the rebbe doesn't mention the concept of mechilah. Some of them, he does say mechilah. Some, he just says yaskim, right? You should, he, he should be maskim. And some of them, he says you should ask mechilah, and the mechilah is gonna help. So it seems also like even in the concept of either mechilah or haskamah, at least with the boys' part, it also may be more individualistic than general rule.

22:45 Speaker 1 Yeah. There seems to be a overall leniency around the boys. Um-

22:48 Speaker 2 Right.

22:48 Speaker 1 Rebbe says it's more of a, uh, I'm glad to hear he's okay with it, but either way.

22:54 Speaker 2 I got, I got a little-

22:54 Speaker 1 We also don't know how they asked

22:55 Speaker 2 ... allowing me to comment. Sorry.

22:57 Speaker 1 Yeah. We also don't know how each, each person asked the question.

23:02 Speaker 2 Right.

23:02 Speaker 1 So there could be other information that was already dealt with that, that-

23:07 Speaker 2 That's also an important part