שידוך עם בחורה שרמת שמירת המצוות שלה נמוכה יותר

00:01 Speaker 1 Okay. Today's letter is a short one. It's right in the middle of the page. It's the one that is denoted as Yud Tav kuf Peh. It's in Tav Shin Lamed Gimel, exactly fifty years ago. I-- My, my PDF doesn't have the page number at the top of it. What is the page number on this? It's page twenty-two. There we go, page chaf beh. Page twenty-two in the year Tav Shin Lamed Gimel, volume chaf Hes. I wanna read the letter first and then spend time talking about it. So let's read it. Short letter. The Rebbe says, "Amaina, I'm answering what you wrote to me." And this is clearly something about Shidduchim. Uh, it's-- we don't, we don't have in the footnotes or anything exactly what the letter was that was written to the Rebbe, but somebody had been asking about a Shidduch. So here's the Rebbe's answer. "Tnai Harishon LeChayim Meusharim," the first condition of a happy life, "Heder Chichuchim Tmidim," is the, is the absence of perpetual friction. I looked up the word Chichuchim, means friction. Perpetual friction. "Kilu Kedeas Bechol Yom Vechulu VeChulu." People fighting every day because they have difference of opinion. The Rebbe says that the step one of having a happy married life is to try to get rid of the situation where obviously people are gonna argue, but to have that-- to have recurring daily arguments is going to be the major problem in any marriage. If you can find a way to get rid of that, that would be

01:11 Speaker 1 one of the keys, the Tnai Harishon, the first condition for a happy life. Re-regular recurring arguments. "V'lachein," the Rebbe says, "Therefore," Am HaZeh B'tzar Achim Hashem Mitzvas Vechayim Me'atzmoi. Says, "Therefore, the person we're talking about who you wanna make a Shidduch with, they have to already be keeping Torah and Mitzvahs every single day on their own." V'lo B'tor Karbon V'asias Teva Vita Vechiaz Ba'zah. And not as a sacrifice or as a favor for the other party. So now we have a little more information on what this person had written to the Rebbe about in addition to whatever else they were asking. They were asking about a Shidduch, and they were going-- they were interested in marrying somebody who was not already keeping Torah and Mitzvahs on a daily basis. And maybe that person was willing to start keeping Torah and Mitzvahs once they got married or was becoming more frum gradually over time and wanted to know the Rebbe's opinion on this Shidduch. The Rebbe says, "The biggest problem you're gonna have in your marriage is going to be regular friction or recurring arguments." And regular friction and recurring arguments, one of the places these come from is when one party feels they had to make a sacrifice for the other. V'lo B'tor Karbon V'asias Teva Vita Vechiaz Ba'zah. When one feels that they've made a sacrifice or done a favor for the other person, and certainly when it comes to the daily observance of Torah and Mitzvahs, this can cause a friction in the

02:17 Speaker 1 relationship if one side becomes frum as a Karbon for the other one. V'zo Nesef Al Ha'ikkar. The Rebbe says this is really in addition to the main point. Pashut Padas Kol Man Basham V'et Hashem, which is simple to every single person who believes in God and His Torah. SheChayim Apirotzen Hashem Hamshiach Umbirchas Hashem, that living according to the will of God will, will, uh, will bring down the berachos of God. So the Rebbe adds another dimension, says, "Let's say that this-- Let's say it doesn't work out this way, and their family is not frum. Is that the end of the world? Yeah, that's the end of the world." SheChayim Apirotzen Hashem Hamshiach Umbirchas Hashem. Berachos come from living a frum life, so it's absolutely a non-starter that they need-- that, that this family needs to be frum. Um, and given that it's a non-starter they need to be frum, one side's going to have to give in and become more frum. And if one side feels that they give in as a way of a Karbon or as a way of a, of a favor being done to the other side, it's going to cause constant arguments, and that's not going to work out either. This is a lot of, uh, putting together puzzle pieces, as you can tell. The letter's not tot-- terribly complete, but it reflects the Rebbe's broader opinion that shows up in tons of letters. I found so many. Um, they all have this recurring theme. A lot of people write

03:20 Speaker 1 to the Rebbe regularly asking about a Shidduch where the one party is, "Look, I'm marrying a Jew. This person is interesting to me. They're Jewish. They're just not frum, and they say they'll become frum, or they're gonna add in Torah and Mitzvahs. Maybe I can be Mekarev them. Maybe through marriage, I can bring them closer to Yiddishkeit." It's like some sort of a-- It's, it's a Shlichus, getting married to the person that I want. And people write to the Rebbe like this all the time, and the Rebbe has a very consistent answer that shows up across many, many letters. We're gonna read one of them together, which is the one that I put in the background link. So if you have a second, open that one up, the background link I wanna read. But before we do the background link, which we'll read together, I want to give you some highlights I found in other letters. So other letters, all from Tav Shin Yod Tes. I guess this was a, a, a year for that. Um, one is the letter that is-- You know, the letter numbers are funny. So the letter number is number Vav Tav Shin Nun. In that letter, um, a guy-- a, a woman is writing to the Rebbe saying that she's interested in marrying a certain guy who says he'll become frum once they get married. So the Rebbe's not pleased with this at all. He says that although the couple wants to please one another, so they're likely to

04:18 Speaker 1 pick up each other's, uh, nuances, each other's idiosyncrasies, he's likely to start following some of your habits. You're not talking about him picking up some of your habits. You're talking about somebody who's not frum-

04:27 Speaker 2 Okay. Um-

04:27 Speaker 1 Making a complete change in lifestyle-

04:29 Speaker 2 All right. I was-- I hope he's not picking up this shit because I'm already, uh-

04:33 Speaker 1 From one, uh, yeah, from one end to the other, um, making a complete lifestyle change. Mina katza la katza. This would totally change every aspect of their l-- daily life. It's gonna change every aspect of his world outlook. That's not a small thing that you kind of pick up as you get married. That's something that needs to be established ahead of time. The Rebbe also says that when this boy tells her that he's going to become frum once they get married, that's him admitting that L'hatchilah he wouldn't do it if it wasn't for her. He's doing it for the marriage. So it's impossible that when the going gets tough, he is not going to think of this as a sacrifice he made for her and ultimately damage their relationship very much al derech the letter that we just read, the regular frictions that come from the sacrifices. The Rebbe, therefore, in this letter surprises me, at least, by s-- He says, "Call it off." He says, "Call off the Shidduch." He says that, "If you really want to call off the Shidduch, at the very least, make sure this person actually becomes frum and stays that way for long enough that he knows what he's getting into, because otherwise, you're, uh, you're, you're setting yourself up for a life of difficulty." The next letter that I have here that has some of these highlights is in Vav Tav Shin Ayin Ches, also from the same year. Told you, Tav Shin Yod Tes was a year

05:32 Speaker 1 for these letters. And, uh, the Rebbe writes similarly that the point of a marriage is to raise a Bayis Neeman B'Yisrael and to educate your children Al Pi Toras HaKodesh, Al Toras HaKodesh, not to educate your spouse and change them. Chinuch and, uh, Chinuch and Shidduchim are not to be mixed. The Rebbe uses this Lashon in a couple letters where he says, "Ein Marvin Mitzvah U'Mitzvah, Ein Marvin Chin-- Ein Marvin, uh, Chinuch V'Shidduch." Not to mix these things together. That a p-- That the, the, the, the job of, the job of married people is not to, uh, is not to be teaching each other the basics. Their job is to present a unified front and thereby raise their families. So in this letter, the Rebbe goes on to say that even if he-- even if this person promises to become religious, it's impossible to know whether he's gonna fully follow through, especially since it was a favor, uh, so especially since it was to get married. He is agreeing to substantial daily obligations, and, uh, and it doesn't work that way. We can't be, we can't be sure that he'll even keep to what he promises. And once again, the Rebbe advises to call up the shadchan. He says, "This is a girl who should be dating boys who are already keeping Torah and mitzvahs." So we have here, um, something that I used to talk about a lot on Schlichas was something that I called the Teddy Bear Rebbe phenomenon. The Teddy Bear Rebbe

06:36 Speaker 1 phenomenon is that a lot of people have turned the Rebbe into a teddy bear, and that teddy bear fits their particular needs. Of course, the Rebbe is a, the Rebbe's a Zionist for everybody who's a Zionist, and the Rebbe is of course, he's a feminist for everybody who's a feminist, and he's a liberal for everyone who's a liberal. And at the end of the day, the Rebbe has very unique shitas that, uh, truth doesn't have a-- tru-truth doesn't have a political party, and, uh, truth doesn't have a ism. And the Rebbe's shita sometimes comes down in a way that just doesn't sound like we would expect the Rebbe we built up in our heads to be talking of. But here we are, letter after letter, people are saying, "Hey, I'm interested in marrying a Jew. I'm in love, and I think that I can, uh, I think I can have a positive effect on them and change them and make them better Yidden." And the Rebbe says, "No, that's not your job. That's not the way this works. When you're trying to find somebody to marry-

07:19 Speaker 3 The Rebbe's also not just being frum here, though. The Rebbe's being very practical that you're not gonna have a happy marriage.

07:24 Speaker 1 Yeah. He says this is gonna-- the marriage isn't going to work, and also the frumkeit isn't gonna work. He keeps saying that, uh, that if they opt-in for these reasons, these are the wrong reasons. You know, this sounds almost like the... You, you wouldn't expect this argument from the, from the Rebbe telling us to go out on street corners with our tefillin and have people put on tefillin for the wrong reasons. It's very different when it comes to a marriage, very different when it comes to daily obligations. And, uh, this really is a, it's a very unique shita, I think. Um, with that background, I want us, if you don't mind, if you could open up this letter from Reb Shulem Hayom to Reb Shulem Hayom. It's the letter I put in as the background supplementary, that we just read it together. It's a little longer, but it has a lot of these positions from the Rebbe all spelled out very clearly to the premier mashpia, and it really, I think, drives home the point of the Rebbe's total-

08:05 Speaker 3 Where is it?

08:06 Speaker 1 -position on this matter. It's the letter that I have in the, in the WhatsApp group. It's there as the background link. So there's the letter link, and right below it is the background link. If you click the background link, it should take you to a letter, and you wanna go to the bottom.

08:19 Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, I see.

08:20 Speaker 1 The second letter on the page, the lower letter, the lower letter on the page. So it's written to a Rav Hasid. It's written to Reb Shulem Hayom Kas, the mashpia, the premier mashpia of the past generation, or one of the premier mashpiyim of the past generation. I don't rank people. But anyway, shalom ubracha, the Rebbe says. Uh, based on what we've been talking about, about a certain abrich. So there's a, there's a certain boy. He's asking about shidduchim. I've already spoken about this at length. The sign in Chazal, and I'd like to use Chazal's phrase, We don't mix two mitzvahs. And based on this, I'm hitting next on my screen. I don't want you to mix shidduchim and chinuch. It's a mitzvah to educate fellow Jews, and it's a mitzvah to get married, and I don't want you mixing the two. Uh, so don't mix the shidduchim and chinuch. Do not use your shidduchim as a way of bringing people close to Torah and mitzvahs. That's not what shidduchim is for. Especially since, based on what you write, this girl who we're talking about... So in the past scenarios, the prior letters I read to you was a girl writ-- was a girl each time writing about a not frum boy. This particular situation is a boy writing about a girl he wants to marry who's not frum. And Rebbe says, "Based on what you're telling me, she and her family don't know anything about religion." They have no idea-- She has no idea just

09:35 Speaker 1 how much of a life commitment this really is, how it's going to have to do with every single step of their lives. It's not like most people who are mistaken. That's a mourning thing. You know, being frum means that my husband goes to Shabbos, my wife, my wife davens in the morning, the Shabbos is not a kiddush, and that they're frum on Shabbos, they come just for kiddush, right? A lot of people think that what being religious entails is a periodic obligation, certain times a day or certain times a year. They don't realize that this is a total lifestyle change. So she doesn't know what she's getting into. She says, "Yeah, I'm fine with it. I'll, I'll, I'll come along and be frum too." She doesn't know what she's agreeing to. Um, just cutting through right here a little bit. I'm cutting through this paragraph 'cause I don't know how much of it we need. There, down there. I'm in the middle of that paragraph. The Rebbe says, first of all, uh, e-even if they do have this discussion and explain that this has to be done seriously, uh, she needs to know her basic obligations at the very least, which would be the things that a woman needs to be involved in principally in, uh, in halacha. She needs to know about kashrus, she needs to know about tznius, she needs to know about taharas hamishpacha, and she needs to know that she's gonna be expected to do these things, and, and she does

10:47 Speaker 1 not understand that that's what you mean when you say, "Let's live a religious lifestyle together." The Rebbe says additionally, and this is no less than the things we've talked about previously. In this, in this letter, the Rebbe takes a turn from the other letters that we read. The other letters that we've seen, the Rebbe's told him to break off the shidduch. There's, there's, uh, there's no reason there should be, uh, involvement between two people where one's, where one's frum and one isn't. Here, the Rebbe doesn't suggest that. I, I don't know why. Must be the specifics of the circumstance. But here he suggests-

11:17 Speaker 3 At the beginning of the first paragraph, I think it's f-- I think it was far along in the shidduch.

11:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, it must be that or-

11:22 Speaker 3 He's asked for invites. He was very far into it.

11:25 Speaker 1 Okay.

11:25 Speaker 3 So he's saying that if you-- if you're forced to do it, at least this is what you have to do.

11:30 Speaker 1 That's-- That, that's a good addition, Perez, because it reflects much more on what we're seeing in the other letters, where a lot of times in other letters that I saw, the Rebbe says, "Well, if you're already stuck with her, I have some ideas." But, uh, the Rebbe seems to want these called off. In any event, the Rebbe does give a program here, which I think is very interesting. The Rebbe does not just want her to learn the laws, he wants her to be absorbed in it for a while. I want her to go move in with a family of frum people. I want her to see every single day what a Jewish woman is. If she's not able to live there full-time, she can't literally move in, then then I want her there as often as possible. He wants full immersion for a little while so that she knows what she's getting herself into. She should learn or somebody should learn with her the basic dinim that she will need to know. If several weeks go by, and she's now fully exposed to what the lifestyle is, and she knows some of the stuff, maybe they can meet up again, this boy and girl. And see if she's really willing to one hundred percent accept what he's asking of her. LePella, Shein Mas, gather the rest of the letter. He says, "I'm surprised you didn't tell me about what went on in Pesach at the Yeshiva." He goes, "The Rebbe's talking to a Mashpia. He

12:48 Speaker 1 wants to know what's going on in the Yeshiva." So the first half of this letter I think captures a lot of the main points that we saw in the other letters. While I was going through them, I'd put together a couple of bullet points of what I think I found in all of these letters, and I think that might be a good review, and with that, we'll probably conclude for now. That the recurring themes I found in all the letters in these topics is, first of all, the Rebbe likes to stress in these letters that being frum is a daily obligation. That's something we all can take home. That, uh, that it is not something that you turn on and off when you go to Shul or when you turn on and off when you sit for a Seder or go to a Shir or attend a, a Shabbos kiddish. That it's a daily obligation that has to do with constant, constant avodah, and that's for everybody. That's not for, that's not for Lubavitchers. That's for anybody who is frum. It's a daily avodah. And that daily avodah, um, is not something that's necessary. The people can't just opt in that easily, go, "You know, I'm frum now." It takes a lot of work. Thing number two, becoming frum, the Ba'al Teshuvah, somebody who has fundamentally switched their lives over min hakatze lakatzah. The Rebbe used the lashon a lot in these letters, min hakatze lakatzah. And he likes to stress in these letters that

13:47 Speaker 1 it will de-demand not only a change in daily routines, which is what we talked about in the last point, but it's also gonna demand a change in worldview. They're gonna have to start seeing the world differently. Which is, is, is a valid point that gets left out a lot in the Ba'al Teshuvah discussions. It really isn't just a lifestyle, it's also a, a worldview. It's, uh, it's, it's almost like it's almost like a politic. You know, you end up, uh, seeing people and seeing items and seeing, uh, and seeing items in the news and seeing work completely differently. So you're asking somebody not just to change what they do, but to change who they are, and that's not something that happens because, uh, b-because, uh, as part of a marriage agreement. Uh, another point in a lot of the letters, when people become frum as a favor to someone else, it ultimately is problematic for their relationship with that person and unlikely to last when the going gets tough. I don't know how much this applies outside of Shidduchim, but my guess is it applies also to family members. That if we, because of our relationship to a family member we feel close to, say, "Hey, if you wanna be close to me, as a favor to me, be frum," that tends not to last. And, uh, I don't know if the Rebbe's saying that that applies across all of these or just to a marriage scenario, but I don't think it's hard to believe

14:48 Speaker 1 that if, uh, that if, that if somebody adding in the Torah and Mitzvahs as a favor to me is unlikely to have lasting power. That, that, that sounds possible at least. At the very least, that's the case when it comes to a couple. Uh, next point. Marriage is not an outreach pe'ulah. It's not, it's not kiruv. Pick a partner you can build a family with because this isn't the time for charity. People-- A couple needs a united and clear front, uh, for the job of raising children and building a home together, and that's not something that you can sort of build as you're going. You need to have a pretty clear idea of what sort of family you want to build prior to the marriage. And as Peretz pointed out, and as I have in my final note here, when a frum and non-person or a, a non-frum person are already dating, the Rebbe's advice is usually to break it off entirely rather than try to be mekarev one of them. Which is, you know, I think maybe not surprising when you read a lot of the Rebbe's stuff, but I think to a lot of people would be surprising that the Rebbe's not suggesting that we try to make this person frum in time for the chasuna. Rebbe says if they have frum person, non-frum, frum, frum person are already dating, he usually says he wants them to break it off. Hesitantly, the Rebbe occasionally allows them to, uh, to keep things going on

15:50 Speaker 1 the condition that they, they substantive-- sub-substantively, uh, start working toward real frumkeit. Not a promise that they'll become frum at marriage, and not even them starting to hesitantly take on a couple Mitzvahs, but total immersion. Moving into somebody's home who's frum, as we saw from the letter of Shlomo Chaim, and really seeing what they're getting into and agreeing with a full heart one hundred percent. Because otherwise, the Rebbe fears, first of all, that it won't stick, and second of all, that it'll ruin their marriage. That's what I have from all of these letters. Questions, comments, additions, please.

16:17 Speaker 3 If I can add for two minutes.

16:17 Speaker 1 Yes, Ben.

16:18 Speaker 3 I, I, I remember coming across one of these letters. I'm trying to remember who I spoke to. And I forgot what was the added context in it. Sometimes there's two types of people that wrote into the Rebbe. Sometimes the people themselves were actually came from Chassidish families, but they themselves didn't-- were not really frum. And they were dating girls, and they wrote into the Rebbe brachah v'shidducha, and the Rebbe made as if they're frum because they came from Chassidish family. He goes, "You're not shakshe to this girl. You're from, you're from Chassidish family and she's not frum." Rebbe totally disregarded that the person himself writing it was also not frum. And then sometimes the guys tried to find everything, "Oh, I'm gonna make her frum." Like-- And the Rebbe also called their bluff. The Rebbe knew that they weren't, they weren't even intending to do that, but they just wanted to get the Rebbe's brachah. But the interesting was-- The other one that was interesting was, I forgot where it was. I, I came across three letters where the Rebbe-- the guy didn't write to him that, that she's not frum, but the Rebbe basically said, "Oh, you come from this Chassidish family. It doesn't make sense for you to pass. And even if you want to be mekarev her, it's not gonna happen, basically."

17:12 Speaker 1 Excellent. Maybe if you can find some of those letters, you can toss them in the chat so we can compare them to the other-

17:16 Speaker 3 I, I don't remember when I saw it. It was at least fifteen years ago that I saw it. It's for sure fifteen years.

17:20 Speaker 1 Well, that's a while back.

17:21 Speaker 3 Yeah. It was just like-

17:22 Speaker 2 I also find it-- I mean, I, I'm, I'm not trying to be, uh, greater than thou, but, like, I find it interesting that, like, someone would wanna marry someone that is not aligned with their baseline, you know, observance.

17:36 Speaker 3 Don't forget, the early days in America, there was not a lot of frum people around.

17:40 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

17:41 Speaker 3 And again, if the people themselves are not so frum, so okay, she's not as frum as me, she's whatever, but you know, she doesn't cover hair. I would want her to cover hair, but whatever. I'll leave it like that, you know? There, there was a lot of-- The pool wasn't as big as it is today.

17:53 Speaker 2 Right.

17:55 Speaker 4 The other part is also people meet each other, and they fall in love-

17:58 Speaker 3 Right

17:58 Speaker 4 ...and then they start trying to figure out how they can fit a square peg into a round hole-

18:01 Speaker 3 Correct. Correct

18:01 Speaker 4 ...or it goes the other way. It's not like they're going on Shidduchim, finding somebody and a Shadchan gave them a, a suggestion of somebody who wasn't as frum. It's somebody they met someone that is, they fell in love, and now let's try to figure out, being that we're not so religious, how are we gonna make this work? Um, I wanted to just, uh, bring, bring, bring up two, two things. Um, number one, you mentioned before about the teddy bear Rebbe. There's an interesting interview with Gershon Shusterman on, on, uh, Behind the Bimah. Gershon Shusterman, who was a Shliach, I guess he's a Shliach out there in California, whose wife passed away-

18:29 Speaker 3 Yes

18:29 Speaker 4 ...I think it was thirty-six years ago. Was a Shliach. His wife passed away thirty-six years ago, and he just came out with a book called Why, God, Why? How to something, something when you're dealing with hell or something like that. When you're going through hell. Some kind of a book about-- It goes through his whole experience about it with his wife passing away and his children and everything else. He was interviewed about this book. But over there, he does mention-- I forgot the full context of it, but he does mention that at some point, he had written a very, very long, um, s-serious letter to the Rebbe, and he got back a letter very, like, you know, with very specific instructions about his avodah, and it-- he was upset about it. Like, he, like, was expecting some sort of empathy or sympathy from the Rebbe, and he didn't get the sympathy that he wanted, and it took him years to really, really soak in the Rebbe's letter and understand what the Rebbe's meaning from the letter was. So just 'cause you mentioned the whole teddy bear Rebbe thing, I thought that-that sparked that story. It's kadai to listen to that interview. It's interesting. Um, the other thing I wanted to say is where you write that the Rebbe-- what the Rebbe writes there about going and immersing yourself in someone's, uh, family, um, my parents had that situation as well. My mother went to, uh... My parents went to Rebbe in Yechidas, and they-- it

19:34 Speaker 4 was their first Pesach as quote-unquote "official" Lubavitchers. My mother came from a Modern Orthodox home. My father was a Ba'al Teshuvah. And my, my parents asked the Rebbe, like, "What should we do?" Like, "Chumras-wise, what should we take upon ourselves?" Basically, they're coming raw. They have nothing. They, they don't have any Minchagim. They don't have any family Minchagim. And the Rebbe basically suggested that they go and sit at, in Rabbi Dworkin's house, it was on Shimon Dworkin, all of Hashem's house, and that my mother should watch her and sit with her as she prepares for Pesach, and from there she should learn. So it turns out that, like, most of my mother's Pesach recipes are, uh, Rebbetsin Dworkin's recipes. You know, the fish is her fish, and the meat is her meat, and whatever it is. But that's where my mother picked up on, on, on her chumras and which products she does use and doesn't u- doesn't use came from the same, uh, uh, Hayom, and the Rebbe, they should sit and immerse themselves with someone who's doing it and kind of learn from there what they should take upon themselves.

20:21 Speaker 3 So my parents went to Fagostuck's house for the first Pesach, and they got some weird chumras that we carried for many, many years. Um, um, one point that you mentioned already, but I wanna-- I think I, I think it's a point, uh, about, you know, uh, in a marriage, the job of marriage, I think it's very practical, um, that a husband's job is to be mashpia, not-- but not to be mashpia to his wife. Meaning, it's not a husband's job to tell his wife, "Oh, you should start learning Chitas. I think it would be very good for you." Because then that, that creates animosity if she's doing it for you. And you mentioned it, but just focusing on that, like, I forgot who it was, but Mashpia told me basically, you know, it's a husband's job to make sure that the house runs, uh, between the mitzvahs. But the specifics of her personal life are not your business if it doesn't affect the whole house. Um, if it doesn't affect the Yidishkeit of the house, then, you know, davening or Chitas or Rama, these are things that are beautiful, but it's not a husband's job to make his wife do these things, and it's important to do it. Rather, obviously, he encourages, "Let's learn it together," and she enjoys it, whatever, it's something else. But when she does it for you, there's gonna be a generation of a, uh, of animosity there, especially if there's some times when a husband encourages his wife to do

21:25 Speaker 3 certain things, but he himself doesn't do everything that he has to. So then she's like, "Wait a second, you're telling me to do this, but you don't do everything you have to do." That also creates further animosity.

21:35 Speaker 4 No, Yisroel, this is, uh, Silverstein, this is your point to jump in and say, "A chassid makht a svivah."

21:40 Speaker 3 Absolutely.

21:42 Speaker 4 A chassid makht a svivah. You make a svivah in your house as well. You, you do-

21:45 Speaker 3 He's making a svivah as well