Ep. 83 // "On The Topic of Closeness" w/ Rabbi Leibel Korf

00:00 Speaker 1 The Rebbe went home after the chuppah. It was like 5:00 in the afternoon. It was a day chuppah, and the Rebbe went home. The Rebbe's in like for an hour. The Rebbe would go home for an hour, 5:00.

00:10 Speaker 2 So he was walking past the chuppah on his way home.

00:12 Speaker 1 The Rebbe was in the car already.

00:13 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

00:13 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe looked at me, and the Rebbe waved-

00:15 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

00:15 Speaker 1 ... like this, and I waved back. My father gave me such a chelek. He said, "Put hands. Why up the hands to zich?" I said, "Rebbe, mach me mit, mit the hand." So I said, "And he, he made heys to me. He made heys to me." He says, "If a Yid would said this is a chaver, and this is chaver, you should stay be a, be a soldat." So I'm staying from Rebbe young, a soldat, balden to zich.

00:37 Speaker 2 Welcome to Homesick for Lubavitch, a podcast where we explore Lubavitch identity in the year two thousand and twenty-five. My name is Bentzi Hafつn, and I will be your host. Let's begin. All righty. We are here in Las Villas. Las Villas, right?

00:59 Speaker 1 Yep.

01:00 Speaker 2 Las Villas, California, a suburb of-

01:04 Speaker 1 In LA.

01:04 Speaker 2 It's not a suburb. It's part of LA.

01:06 Speaker 1 In LA.

01:07 Speaker 2 Yeah, but, uh, most people think LA is just Hancock Park.

01:11 Speaker 1 LA is a very big city, and even the valley is part of LA.

01:15 Speaker 2 Right. Right.

01:16 Speaker 1 Small towns, communities.

01:17 Speaker 2 If, if there aren't kosher restaurants down the block, it's not LA.

01:21 Speaker 1 Yep.

01:21 Speaker 2 It's a ten-minute drive from Jeff's because, uh... All right.

01:25 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

01:25 Speaker 2 Not ten minutes, a half hour. Right. Your mom lives in the boondocks. All right, we're here, we're here in Las Villas with Reb Leibel Korff, and, um, the last time I was here was, uh, almost twenty years ago. Um, not quite, but almost. Almost twenty years ago when I was a schluch in Los Angeles. We walked here on Shulits night, and, um, and it's, uh, you're in the old Chabad house. It was like a , like a restaurant of some kind, right?

01:56 Speaker 1 Converted a restaurant to a Chabad house.

01:58 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a-

01:58 Speaker 1 For sure

01:58 Speaker 2 ... it was like, like a porch or something, right?

02:00 Speaker 1 Get on the porch first, then you come in, and-

02:02 Speaker 2 That's right

02:02 Speaker 1 ... we, we, we flattened the whole bar, and we made it one big-

02:06 Speaker 2 Yeah

02:06 Speaker 1 ... one big room.

02:07 Speaker 2 I remember, yeah, yeah.

02:08 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

02:08 Speaker 2 Yeah.

02:08 Speaker 1 It was nice room.

02:09 Speaker 2 And we spent, uh, we s- we had soda, and we, we shared, uh, we did taluka there.

02:14 Speaker 1 You spoke very well. You spoke at the-

02:16 Speaker 2 Thank you, sir.

02:17 Speaker 1 Yeah.

02:18 Speaker 2 Um, from my old career. My old career. Um-

02:22 Speaker 1 I told you then that the bochurim that spoke well did well on shlichas, so.

02:26 Speaker 2 Yeah, and look where I am now. Anyway . There always has to, there always has to be a yetzer hara in that klal. The... Anyway.

02:33 Speaker 1 Still young.

02:33 Speaker 2 It, the exception that prove, yeah.

02:35 Speaker 1 In a ch名ami.

02:35 Speaker 2 You know, I was sitting in Crown Heights this past Shabbos. I went to visit my parents, um, in Crown Heights. They live in Crown Heights now. Um, and, and, um, my father goes back and forth to Hong Kong for all those yentas who need to know. So, but as they're, they're, they're there for Shabbos, so I went to visit them for Shabbos with my family, and I went to, to shul, my class shul, um, on Lubavitch. And I'm sitting there, and I hear that a cl- a classmate of mine, actually a bit older than me, he just turned forty, he's going on shlichas this week to Vancouver. So.

03:17 Speaker 1 It happens.

03:19 Speaker 2 You never know.

03:21 Speaker 1 I hope that you understand, and I believe that every moment of your life, you're on the shlichas of the Rebbe.

03:27 Speaker 2 Uh-

03:27 Speaker 1 Wherever you are, whenever you are.

03:29 Speaker 2 I, I... It's, uh, let's talk about it. I, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not arguing with that, but I think there's a difference between the idea of shlichas and then actual shlichas.

03:38 Speaker 1 Of course.

03:38 Speaker 2 And I'm not talking just about titles and official, um, you know, uh, hierarchies or merches or whatever. I'm bl- And I think, I think, I think there are people who, who put everything to the side for the cause of shlichas, and they're putting, uh, their emotional wellbeing very often, their financial wellbeing, a lot of things to the side for that. And I think that ne- needs to be its own category and not... And even if there are things that I do that are aligned or adjacent to shlichas, I'm not... You know what I mean? It's not the same. Maybe it's connected, but it's not the same thing.

04:12 Speaker 1 It was my remark on that every . Right now you have this, uh, this could be the wants from you, and, uh, you should be .

04:23 Speaker 2 Thank you. So anyway, we're back here. We're back here. Zrek, zrek, what's a, what's a- Eventually I came back. Eventually I came back to Las Villas, and it's a pleasure to be here with you. And, uh, it was actually... It's a, it was a crazy story. I was... I realized that I had some time this evening 'cause I was here in LA this morning, and I realized I had some extra time this evening, and I was like, "Who should I re..." You know, I'm trying to find somebody to interview. I'm sitting in my car on Pico. We talk about Jeff's. On Pico. I'm sitting in my car and s- and I asked a few people for ideas, and somebody sends me Leibel Korff. I don't know. I'm gonna ask him to, in a few hours, I'm gonna that in a few hours if he's available. It's not even polite to ask somebody so last minute. And punkt while I'm having these thoughts, you walk right by the car.

05:14 Speaker 1 Thank you for clarifying that I'm not prepared for this event tonight. I'm happy to-

05:18 Speaker 2 No, but I'm just-

05:18 Speaker 1 ... share

05:19 Speaker 2 ... I'm just saying that I, you know, not that I'm a mumkhan ashkachan protis, but, uh, but, uh, while we're, while I'm thinking about you, Maush walked by the car. I walked out of the car, and we, here we are. So anyway, uh, you asked what we're gonna talk about. The truth is I don't know, but I'm sure you have a lot to say. Um, and so let's begin from the beginning. Uh, where does the story of, uh, Leibel Korff begin?

05:42 Speaker 1 In, in I guess, when I was born.

05:46 Speaker 2 Yeah, that part you don't remember.

05:50 Speaker 1 I don't remember. I remember from a very young age and growing, growing up in a, uh, two-family house on Utica. I'm president of Utica Rochester. It's, uh, it was a very, you know, it's- Two bedrooms and-

06:03 Speaker 2 Oh, so not the Kingston-

06:04 Speaker 1 No. My Zayde lived on Kingston from . My father was a bachur here when he stayed by my par-- by his parents' house. He moved to Montreal till .

06:18 Speaker 2 After his marriage?

06:19 Speaker 1 After his married. He was in Newark a little bit, then he was in Altaira, and then he went to Montreal as a mashpia.

06:25 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

06:26 Speaker 1 And he had to come back for reasons of health for my brother. We have a older brother that needed some care which the Canadian government couldn't provide, and he had to be in America to, to receive those benefits. So for a while he was here. Without my father moving, staying by my Zayde's house, but it ended up being that they had to move. So they, he got a job in Altaira. He was a principal for two years, and then he became mash, mashgiach, and then mashpia slash.

06:53 Speaker 2 So you were born when they already moved back to New-

06:55 Speaker 1 They moved back to . I was born two years later.

06:58 Speaker 2 Two years later.

06:59 Speaker 1 Yeah. And, uh, my father lived in a house. Zisha Feldman was upstairs, and Zisha is now Balfour, Balfour Place. It was Zisha and, and, and Chaim, Chaim, his wife, Khanetka, and the, and family. We lived upstairs, and we lived downstairs. And it was a nice little community, and-

07:19 Speaker 2 What's a shtetl little community? Crown Heights or, or that area of Queens?

07:22 Speaker 1 Well, Crown Heights, uh, was divided. No one lived in on President from Albany till Schenectady. No, no Yidden lived there.

07:32 Speaker 2 Right.

07:32 Speaker 1 So from Schenectady to Rochester, we had Yidden. And, um-

07:36 Speaker 2 Oh, so they got divided almost.

07:38 Speaker 1 It was like divided, yeah. So it was like its own community. We had three shuls over there. We had Frankel Shul, we had Kol Hasidim and Rebbe Meir Ovim, three shuls.

07:46 Speaker 2 Yeah.

07:46 Speaker 1 'Cause on Carroll Street was, was two shuls, and on President was one.

07:49 Speaker 2 And they're all Lubavitch shuls?

07:50 Speaker 1 No.

07:51 Speaker 2 No.

07:51 Speaker 1 They're all non-Lubavitch shuls. They were all dominated by Lubavitchers and non-Lubavitchers together. Like the shul across the street from our house, and Motte Schusterman would daven there often. Not really, but grown-ups were bringing there often. My fa-

08:04 Speaker 2 Motte Schusterman is Gershon Schusterman's father.

08:07 Speaker 1 Father, yeah. He was bachur.

08:08 Speaker 2 The bachur.

08:08 Speaker 1 Yeah.

08:08 Speaker 2 So you used to go to seven, seven thirty odd shul this morning?

08:10 Speaker 1 I walked, I walked with him many times, you know-

08:12 Speaker 2 So when did you... So wait, so you davened in these shuls when?

08:15 Speaker 1 I davened in these shuls Friday night usually.

08:17 Speaker 2 Friday? Uh-huh.

08:17 Speaker 1 Or if my father would go to yeshiva Friday night. So it's, it's not, you know, it's, there's no time that we went there. Sometimes it was on Shabbos. My father felt he would, he went to Machazik, and he stayed there on Shabbos.

08:28 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

08:28 Speaker 1 And then sometimes I davened by the Rebbe. He didn't always daven by the Rebbe.

08:31 Speaker 2 Right. On Shabbos?

08:32 Speaker 1 I went, I went Rabbi Schusterman 'cause I wanted to be by the Rebbe.

08:34 Speaker 2 On Shabbos?

08:35 Speaker 1 Yeah.

08:36 Speaker 2 All the years the Rebbe would come out for the whole davening of Shabbos?

08:39 Speaker 1 Of course.

08:39 Speaker 2 The whole davening?

08:40 Speaker 1 Yeah. O- uh, only, only during the week the Rebbe wouldn't daven Shacharis with the minyan, but on Shabbos the Rebbe would daven Shacharis.

08:46 Speaker 2 With the minyan or he was there-

08:47 Speaker 1 Always, always ten o'clock

08:48 Speaker 2 ... No, but he was davening with the minyan?

08:50 Speaker 1 Yeah.

08:51 Speaker 2 He finished davening with the minyan too?

08:53 Speaker 1 Yeah.

08:54 Speaker 2 Interesting. The Rebbe always-- That was a, that was a minhag of the Rebbe, you know?

08:59 Speaker 1 I don't know. I'm not a researcher on that.

09:02 Speaker 2 No, I'm saying-

09:03 Speaker 1 No, I'm saying the Rebbe-

09:03 Speaker 2 No, 'cause-

09:03 Speaker 1 You could tell him Tisha B'Av, you could tell him Tisha B'Av where the Rebbe didn't daven. The Rebbe went sometimes three steps back for reas- for-

09:08 Speaker 2 No, 'cause the Rebbe would, uh, very often were davening Berichas, right? On Shabbos not.

09:13 Speaker 1 Not, not much known about the Rebbe's Berichas davening, which I can't... I'm not a mumcha on that. When, when, when, if any of the times the Rebbe done Berichas.

09:20 Speaker 2 No, there are stories of, from Paris or something, Zayde Shemtov or something. No, there's a story.

09:25 Speaker 1 Yeah.

09:26 Speaker 2 They asked for a room with two, with two doors.

09:28 Speaker 1 Right.

09:29 Speaker 2 And then they, they spied, and they heard him davening. Sound, sound a true story?

09:33 Speaker 1 I, I'm not saying it's not. I'm just saying during the Re- during the Rebbe's-

09:36 Speaker 2 Nesius

09:36 Speaker 1 ... nesius, I mean, there were times bachurim looked in. Shlomo Zachiever brings about it, about the, the Rebbe used to ask for all the letters in the morning and daven-

09:47 Speaker 2 So it's-

09:47 Speaker 1 ... on the letters, you know, you know, during, during the week. They used to see through the window, Rebbe's hands on the letters. But-

09:52 Speaker 2 Wait, one second, one second. I never heard this before.

09:54 Speaker 1 Shlomo Zachiever brings about it many times, that, uh-

09:58 Speaker 2 The letters that people were sending their brachos. The, the, the, the-

10:01 Speaker 1 Yeah. He would call in to Maskirus often before davening actually. The kno- the knopfs. He didn't wanna start davening until he got all the letters.

10:08 Speaker 2 So, like, similar to the Tekias where, where he had all the letters when he said Tekias. So he-

10:12 Speaker 1 So Reb Yael was referring about that in his days.

10:15 Speaker 2 That the, that the Rebbe would daven-

10:16 Speaker 1 Daven on the brachos of the, of the, of Yidden.

10:19 Speaker 2 And then later on he would go tfiloh with them. But the early years he didn't, right?

10:24 Speaker 1 Not as much.

10:25 Speaker 2 Not as much. So he would daven in his room with the letters. Hmm. Yeah.

10:31 Speaker 1 I, I did not see it. It's not what I heard.

10:34 Speaker 2 Say there. Okay, we'll put a dis-- big disclaimer on the podcast that, you said it-

10:39 Speaker 1 Mark it a little boom. It wasn't like-

10:40 Speaker 2 Everything's clichéd anyway.

10:41 Speaker 1 It wasn't like, it wasn't like, uh, it wasn't like I for- I forgot what I heard. I know what I heard.

10:46 Speaker 2 No, look, I, I, um, you tell me what you think about this. To me, as I get older and as I l-- you know, experience more of life myself and people that I know, and of course, as you get older, uh, you know, both the people that you know and, and just the things that you learn about, you realize that life is a lot heavier than, than it was when you were a kid. Uh, there's also a lot of beautiful things that you experience, right? But so anyway, with time, t-to me, the, like, the thing that, like, yeah, I understand the Rebbe's a, a master Talmud Chacham, and I understand all these things of Halakhah and traditional... I mean, I don't understand, but I know and I believe these things. Tzidkas and all these things. You know, tzadik and a, and a sadder, whatever that exactly means. But, like, the thing that mamash hits me like a, like a, like a, like a truck is the, the weight that a Rebbe carries from the moment that he's Mekabel in Nesius of the, the, the, the burden of people's shver keitn that they send to him. Like, it, it's just, it's just staggering. Like, the amount of things that people pasht it. It's, it's not, it's not even a matter of what he's able to do about it. It's just the fact that he's- Burdened with it

12:08 Speaker 1 So again, I'll quote Rav Shlomo, which was after the Yechidas, and there was late Yechidas in the Rebbe Dam for the Amid, Tav Shechavhei. He said the Bechi, you could hear on tapes of them, the Bechi is, you know, after, after a heavy Yechidas, a heavy Yechidas, and the Bechi is that we're in the davening. As, as a-

12:25 Speaker 2 What do you mean, what's davening?

12:27 Speaker 1 Chakras. Chakras was right after Yechidas sometimes in the morning.

12:29 Speaker 2 And there was Avod HaMinyan?

12:30 Speaker 1 The Amid, the Tav Shechavhei.

12:31 Speaker 2 Oh, Tav Shechavhei.

12:32 Speaker 1 And the Bechi was, you know, after a long Yechidas, and the Rebbe Dam for the Amid, then straight after Yechidas, on his Rebbe would have an early morning before he went home after Yechidas.

12:41 Speaker 2 Right.

12:42 Speaker 1 And he said that the Bechi's were very strong, you know, like it was, you saw that it was, you know, following Yechidas.

12:49 Speaker 2 Yeah.

12:51 Speaker 1 Look, um, I'll tell you a small one like that. My f- my father seldom showed my brother to the Rebbe, but the Rebbe would always show care for my brother. Because my Zayde used to go in Yechidas every year from Tov Shlom Adalev. He used to go in Yechidas, um, for collecting Maimed in Toronto.

13:12 Speaker 2 Your Zayde, your Zayde was a, was a Shaddai?

13:14 Speaker 1 Shaddai. He used to go to Toronto and get Maimed. And there's, uh, some videos of it because, uh, Gem, you know, has the videos of who was ever in the zal after Yechidas Kolis.

13:26 Speaker 2 Right.

13:26 Speaker 1 He'd obviously sit downstairs.

13:27 Speaker 2 This was in the later years.

13:29 Speaker 1 Later years. But even those years, many times it was inside.

13:31 Speaker 2 I'm saying the videos were, are from the later years.

13:33 Speaker 1 Later years, right.

13:34 Speaker 2 Yeah.

13:34 Speaker 1 But never, otherwise it was in the room always. And, uh, he was still in the room. Tov Shlom Mentes was in the Rebbe's house, and then Nuna was in the Rebbe's room. Then sometimes it was in the Rebbe's room, sometimes it was after Yechidas Kolis. And he used to always ask about my s- about my brother. So-

13:49 Speaker 2 The Rebbe would ask your Zayde?

13:50 Speaker 1 Yeah. "Vos macht?" And he'd say, "My father's son. Vos macht?" So my father and mother were bringing him in, so they came by dollars from the front door. So at that time, the whole camp from Detroit was going by. And the Rebbe gave everybody two dollars as Loch in Detroit. To every one of them. And then the head counselors saw my father and my mother coming, holding someone and controlling him. They realized right away, they stopped the line. And the, the Rebbe looked up and said, "This is Yitzchak. Zamna of Yerushalayim." And after my father and my parents went by and they got dollars, the Rebbe didn't say anything to the rest of the line of the, of the kids going to camp. And then Rebbe Gorny kept on mentioning this Eich from Detroit.

14:32 Speaker 2 Wait, your, your brother was in Detroit?

14:34 Speaker 1 Yeah, I get it. So basically, they stopped the line of the camp going through to let him skip the line, so they should be able to go through.

14:42 Speaker 2 To come get a dollar.

14:43 Speaker 1 Right. So there's the, the, so the head counselors were getting a dollar. Each kid was getting a dollar at Loch in Detroit, at Loch in Detroit.

14:50 Speaker 2 And the Rebbe was saying at Loch in Detroit each time?

14:52 Speaker 1 Yeah, each one.

14:52 Speaker 2 This is on the way to camp?

14:53 Speaker 1 This is before they went to camp.

14:55 Speaker 2 Ah, okay.

14:55 Speaker 1 So he stopped the line in the middle of the camp line-

14:57 Speaker 2 Right

14:58 Speaker 1 ... so that he should go through.

14:59 Speaker 2 Right.

14:59 Speaker 1 So he's, they saw in the Rebbe the burden of what he just experienced, that he just didn't say anything to the other kids afterwards, sort of like he was still-

15:08 Speaker 2 Wow. Wow

15:08 Speaker 1 ... still, usually in dollars you could see the Rebbe sees one person and right away he changes to the next person.

15:12 Speaker 2 Right, right.

15:12 Speaker 1 It's like, uh-

15:13 Speaker 2 Right

15:13 Speaker 1 ... sh- you know, cut and, and straight, straight to another person's, uh, you know, many times when I went to my medal there's like three people in front of me. One person was very strict, the other person was a big smile, and the other person was-

15:24 Speaker 2 Right

15:24 Speaker 1 ... then it was me. Like, like-

15:25 Speaker 2 Right

15:25 Speaker 1 ... it's like no, no, uh, you know, there's total change.

15:29 Speaker 2 Which is exhausting, by the way. It has to be exhausting.

15:35 Speaker 1 I see. So you were talking about the burden, so I could, you know, I could tell you a story, a personal story that you saw the Rebbe's burden.

15:41 Speaker 2 Amazing, amazing story. So Leibel was telling him this is, they're also from Detroit?

15:46 Speaker 1 From Detroit, and nothing changed.

15:48 Speaker 2 Didn't change the, the comments didn't come quick.

15:51 Speaker 1 Maybe later on it started again.

15:53 Speaker 2 Hmm. Hmm. Yeah.

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17:56 Speaker 1 a conversation with my Zayde about that, and seeing it, you know, un- un- unprepared, this is a very unusual thing that never came with him. This was something that obviously the Rebbe's-

18:07 Speaker 2 You said your, you said be- before that your father didn't bring it up?

18:10 Speaker 1 Didn't bring him over often. No, no, if he's asking probably. No

18:13 Speaker 2 Your father didn't bring, uh, the topic up to the rabbi?

18:16 Speaker 1 No. For my dollars?

18:17 Speaker 2 No, in general. You said something about the, it, your father didn't, he didn't bring him often. He didn't-

18:21 Speaker 1 He didn't bring him to the rabbi. He didn't bring him to the house.

18:23 Speaker 2 Why? He didn't, he didn't want to be like-

18:24 Speaker 1 No, it was, it was not a com-- it's not a common thing that we did.

18:27 Speaker 2 It wasn't.

18:27 Speaker 1 He wasn't home. He was, he was in Kiriat, in other places. There was no reason to bring him.

18:31 Speaker 2 Uh-huh. Too complicated.

18:34 Speaker 1 Yeah, you have to control. It's, that's hard to do it by a dollar. It's hard to do it by a-

18:38 Speaker 2 Did your, did your father, did your father speak to the rabbi about it?

18:43 Speaker 1 There were times that we had ideas to do things, and the rabbi would either send, you know, to move out of Queens was always a no, and to, to other rabbo- other doctors was always, you know, different . But it wasn't... It was Kiriat. It was a lot of di- you know, direction, but not, not often writing.

19:02 Speaker 2 Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. This is something I don't look... There's something... For me, there's something extremely, extremely real about it. I, I'm not trying to take away from anything else, but, like, there are a lot of, there are a lot of things about, about and rebbeim and all these things that, that, that they're... In, in their worlds, they're just as real. The are also real. But, but for me as a human being, there's something about the, the you know what I mean? The, the, just the, the weight of it all and, and the fact that... I mean, I, you know, I, I, I tell stories for a living. I, I don't... Nobody's burdening me, me. Nobody's expecting me to actually help them, but they're just telling stories to me, and, and very often they're not telling me the real, real weight of the story. And, and sometimes I push it. I feel like I'm collapsing under the weight of it. And then I realize, like somebody told me, somebody told me the other day, like, um, he's like, "You know, like a modern Lubavitcher." And he's like, "You know, everybody has their, their, their, you know, the, their, their, their ideas and then where, you know, they, they, where they go with their different ideas. But when somebody has their actual problem, they have one address." Like, like the bur- It's just, you know, the burden of real, of real things.

20:26 Speaker 1 Uh, if, I don't mean to redirect this from being just for physical things 'cause the, the rabbi was full of that. You know, there's always, uh... You know, for the time that my Shuel Shalom was writing, uh, helping to pay the it was then called, um-

20:39 Speaker 2 Are you sure for the, for those who don't know

20:41 Speaker 1 ... from, uh, Morocco, so he-

20:43 Speaker 2 He used to work on ?

20:44 Speaker 1 He's was in the beginning, him and Rabbi Nachman Tzaddik and, and Shmuel, um, and the Mish-- um, Rabbi Bagimolski, um-

20:55 Speaker 2 Oh, you're talking about the, the first, the first-

20:56 Speaker 1 The first Chazzanas Dach, that's what they started with.

21:00 Speaker 2 Right. Okay.

21:00 Speaker 1 So Rabbi Chadikov complained to him why he's bothering the rabbi with it. people that have questions of life and death. And the Rab- Rabbi it was . And it was in Skub.

21:18 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

21:18 Speaker 1 And they take a lot of credit for that. So the, the, um, the continuation 'cause it was from there that it was, the Chazzanim were saying so it's, it's we need it. So the rabbi was also on the same, in the same level. Could say it was my father-in-law was once, I think, in middle of a busiest, busiest day of, uh, of, um, d- of dollars on sukkahs, and like there was, there was so many halakahs going on in one halameid. It was at, it was like a, a schedule. And rabbi told and it wasn't his forty years, but it, it translated to him later when he was very sick, and it was forty years in Morocco. He asked, you know, felt that he, you know, he got the message then. But it was just the, you know, in middle of the hardest times, the rabbi would stop the middle of something and be burdened with someone else, whether it was because your father's in the hotel, his father's in the hospital, or that someone needs the support and the chizzok, or when the rabbi's in the... Or my modern, they say stories of, you know, going down all the way to it was done with on the way to the oil in the car and standing at the oil, and, uh, many other, other, other, other moments. I could tell you one story that I saw. I was only thirteen years old, and the rabbi then had a sciatic nerve. He, the rabbi had

22:40 Speaker 1 pain, but he couldn't... The rabbi didn't go out to daven in the zal. The rabbi would daven in the neir dachen.

22:45 Speaker 2 Where was this? When was this?

22:46 Speaker 1 Toshim and Vov.

22:47 Speaker 2 Vov.

22:47 Speaker 1 From Purim, all the way to listen rabbi daven upstairs, and the rabbi would go down for bergen only, Shabbos. And during the week, the rabbi didn't even go to the zal. He stayed right next to the door, dav- davening in the dachen. Could not hold on in front of anybody. It was so painful to walk.

23:03 Speaker 2 Oh, wait. So there's a minyan, there's a minyan in the hallway?

23:06 Speaker 1 In the neir dachen only.

23:08 Speaker 2 They brought a minyan of people and were, the rabbi stood in his office?

23:12 Speaker 1 My rabbi office was a standard. The rabbi's office to the standard.

23:17 Speaker 2 And this was in Mem-Vov?

23:18 Speaker 1 Mem-Vov.

23:18 Speaker 2 He wasn't l- he wasn't living in seven seventy. He would come to the office and daven-

23:22 Speaker 1 So the rabbi would come to the side door. That's when he started, the rabbi going through the side door.

23:25 Speaker 2 The drive, drive to-

23:27 Speaker 1 The drive to the side door instead of the front of seven seventy.

23:29 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

23:30 Speaker 1 And that's when it started 'cause they didn't want the rabbi, the rabbi started holding onto the railing there from inside. But if it was in public, they were certain the rabbi would hold, hold onto the railing.

23:39 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

23:40 Speaker 1 So they, they didn't want the rabbi to be burdened because... Anyways, so I was thirteen years old, but I somehow was able to get in there.

23:49 Speaker 2 Was just a minyan of people?

23:50 Speaker 1 Yeah, basically. It was a who should go in, but I managed with, with another chaver of mine. And we've, since I was in there before people came in, I was, I saw the label going, or we're going, going in to the rabbi after the rabbi came from the oil. So the rabbi was standing at the oil. He used to stand. He wouldn't sit-

24:08 Speaker 2 It's Mincha already.

24:08 Speaker 1 It's Mincha mayrov. Before Mincha, it was like five, ten minutes the rabbi's in his room between coming from the oil and go- and going out to Mincha.

24:18 Speaker 2 And he would read something there?

24:20 Speaker 1 I always want to know what the rabbi does.

24:21 Speaker 2 Right.

24:23 Speaker 1 And I'm thirteen years old, and I'm, I'm curious. I stand in a position where the rabbi walked in.

24:28 Speaker 2 So you could see through the door.

24:29 Speaker 1 The door was wide open. I'd see through the door.

24:31 Speaker 2 Oh, so they weren't hiding.

24:32 Speaker 1 He was walk- he was walking in.

24:33 Speaker 2 They weren't hiding.

24:34 Speaker 1 The rabbi, the rabbi walked in-

24:36 Speaker 2 Right

24:36 Speaker 1 ... and his, his body has to walk through the door.

24:38 Speaker 2 Right.

24:38 Speaker 1 So I saw. Saw the rabbi standing in magiya, the, the liquid. Standing by his bed. It was ro- it was rolled-

24:45 Speaker 2 Oh, there was a b- there was a bed in the office already at that point.

24:47 Speaker 1 Yeah, just on the fastest.

24:48 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

24:51 Speaker 1 And the rabbi standing over there, not sitting. And this, uh, this, you know, 'cause the liquid has to go out that night to happen before Mincha mayrov to send it back.

25:01 Speaker 2 And the rabbi, whenever he was making a sifri, he would stand?

25:04 Speaker 1 No. So this is the second ago, I understand. It was like more like a roll. It wasn't like a paper, and the rabbi was standing and, and I saw a sifri, something-

25:10 Speaker 2 But he would always stand when he did?

25:12 Speaker 1 No, no. I'm not saying he would always. I'm not in the room.

25:14 Speaker 2 You're saying he was punk standing then.

25:16 Speaker 1 I guess it was a very short time between-

25:17 Speaker 2 There was no time to sit down, yeah.

25:18 Speaker 1 There's-- Whatever. I'm, I'm young, and I saw it. It's not like a question what I saw. And-

25:23 Speaker 2 No, I'm trying to s-- I'm trying to see if there's a, uh, larger context to it. This is what you saw. That's it.

25:28 Speaker 1 It's a Thursday, and I saw he's making a sicha.

25:31 Speaker 2 Right.

25:31 Speaker 1 He's read- he's reading.

25:32 Speaker 2 You're n- n-- I'm saying you're not saying how it used to be. You're just saying how it was then.

25:35 Speaker 1 Could be that he looked, looked for a second ago, and just if it would catch one thing, he would go to the table and, and then correct it.

25:41 Speaker 2 Right.

25:41 Speaker 1 But he was reading it standing.

25:44 Speaker 2 Right.

25:44 Speaker 1 And to me, it was like, you know, just I gotta sh-- you know, at that age, I got a shiver to see that the Rebbe's like, it's negait and b-benefit, and it's, it's how much it's, uh, it's, you know, the, the people sh- that if-- the chassidim should get the sicha in time and that the, the, to put, uh, put himself... The burden of us is not just in the health. The burden of us is in our askanus, in our shlichas, in our learning sichas, in our being able to have, you know, provide for us the learning to have, to, you know, his own haga, his own sichas. Every, every element of it, every chaluka, every giving, every, every part of it's, you know, to me, I sense that, you know, what you're saying about Chayyei Olam himself and, and, and, and gezunt and other burdens, you know, besor b'chol mamash in everything.

26:32 Speaker 2 Right. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And there's a very, there's a very, um, it's a very deep caring over there, no question. Any kids view if you were, you know, seemed to be insignificant.

26:55 Speaker 1 So again, I was a kid. This is like a little bit of yasom about my youth. So Teshlamim Beis it started, right? But as I got older, maybe, you know, from Lamid Ches, let's say. From Lamid Ches, I witnessed, uh-

27:07 Speaker 2 You were there, Sof Zman? Do you remember it?

27:09 Speaker 1 I was there. I remember an aftzim breaking a window. I was like, "This is..." I'm a kid. I remember it looked like an aftzim, whether it was a yinner, whether it was a, a Hashem or someone else, but I saw someone breaking a window. To me, it looked like an aftzim.

27:20 Speaker 2 Could have been, yeah.

27:21 Speaker 1 And, uh, the back window-

27:23 Speaker 2 There's a whole bunch of, there's a whole bunch of them.

27:25 Speaker 1 There's, uh, the, the windows of s-- the windows in the back, and I was with my father the whole time. So Lamed Beis, Lamed Ches, uh-

27:34 Speaker 2 But you understood what was going on at that age?

27:36 Speaker 1 I thought, "Rebbe's nicht gezunt, and Rebbe in the luft."

27:39 Speaker 2 Right.

27:40 Speaker 1 So I went outside. We waited for the Rebbe to come out, and my-- we understood that the Rebbe is okay. I think the Rebbe came out, me and my father talked. Rebbe gave mach with the hand. So we went home.

27:48 Speaker 2 How do you remember your father's disposition throughout that whole thing?

27:51 Speaker 1 You know what? I don't know. I think-

27:53 Speaker 2 Do you remember?

27:54 Speaker 1 As I remember that night, he was concerned when we left seven seventy, but then he was sort of, uh, looked to me like he was comforted when the, when the Rebbe went out to the sukkah and that he made with his hand. That sounds fine, good.

28:06 Speaker 2 Right.

28:06 Speaker 1 Until we came back the next morning, I don't think he, he grasped the situation.

28:11 Speaker 2 And then?

28:13 Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't remember a lot. Just remember the daigen. I remember just going to shul, you know, going the next day to seven seventy on the way to the tate, and being brought to there by my brother and seeing the simcha of, of Lamed Ches. But I don't... Again, I can't, I can't share with you now the, you know, the, the, the veiki that my father told me afterwards, you know, what the matzav is, and that the Rebbe has to be gezunt, the Rebbe can't come down. But it was, again, rem- that, that part is not, uh, is not clear to me.

28:42 Speaker 2 That's not what you're bringing it up for.

28:43 Speaker 1 That... No. No. No, no. I wasn't bringing up Lamed Ches for Lamed Ches. I'm just saying that that's when it started my, my waking up to want to, to want to be in a very unusual way, 'cause I was, remember, I was all the way on the other side of Crown Heights. I was between Utica and Rochester, and there wasn't a lot of friends there. I had a friend, Mark Elder was my friend. I had sometimes the people on Crown or Carroll. But in general, it was my the melchovahs that came to my father to learn with him in the morning, chasidus, either six o'clock or six thirty.

29:14 Speaker 2 Over there?

29:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. It was kind of whatever shiur-- Before you went to the tate in the morning, he would learn with, uh, Tanya in English.

29:21 Speaker 2 Right. Uh, anybo- anybody my age is re- remembers in seven seventy the Tayer shiur.

29:26 Speaker 1 That's it.

29:27 Speaker 2 So, so this is, this is the beginning of it.

29:28 Speaker 1 It's, it's a different, a different gr- group, but there was a group there.

29:32 Speaker 2 Same idea, though.

29:32 Speaker 1 Same idea. Any time that my father had a rule, any time that somebody wants to learn with him, he's ready to learn. So six o'clock was the first shiur in my house. I was woken up by noises of, of screaming, you know, En- you know, English words in Ta- in chasidus.

29:45 Speaker 2 And your father's English was beseder at that point?

29:47 Speaker 1 I guess he learned, uh, high vocabulary by knowing, you know, uh, revelations and concealment and, and then eidus. Every time he learned a, he learned the words, and he, and he taught it.

29:57 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

29:57 Speaker 1 Yeah. People loved hearing from him. He learned-- He spoke with such, such, uh, hearts and such emes, and people loved coming to his shiur. It was a, a real... I, I, of course it was a havana also, but it was a lot of devotion and emes that they got to my father. Yeah. So I, I was a lot connected with older people. There was always older people coming to our house. My father would take me to yeshiva with him, so I'd raise the next elder vakhram, I guess. To take care of me was to take me to the chasidus, and I would, uh, chazak with the vakhram. So maybe I got, uh... At that age, I wanted to get old quickly, and, uh, was very intrigued and inspired about everything about the Rebbe. So even before Mamalif, when the Rebbe started Tzvoz Hashem, and then, you know, he welcomed all the children right, you know, to his, to his-

30:44 Speaker 2 So you were, you were, you were eight years old by, by Tzvoz Hashem.

30:47 Speaker 1 But so with Tzvoz Hashem already, I was eight years o-- I was the beginning of Tzvoz Hashem, beginning of Mamalif, I was eight years old.

30:52 Speaker 2 So you were, you were in the thick of it.

30:54 Speaker 1 Thick of it. So already six and seven, I started coming to my Zayde's lap, like a breng and it's like my father, and I started getting a, a, you know, a real liking and a urge to be there as much as possible of a breng.

31:05 Speaker 2 Where did your Zayde sit?

31:06 Speaker 1 Right there.

31:07 Speaker 2 Behind the Rebbe? He was one of the whitebeards.

31:09 Speaker 1 Yeah.

31:10 Speaker 2 And your father stood-

31:11 Speaker 1 Stood not too far from him, behind Rabbi Belunek and-

31:14 Speaker 2 Also on the platform

31:14 Speaker 1 ... on the platform.

31:15 Speaker 2 Also on the platform.

31:16 Speaker 1 On the platform.

31:18 Speaker 2 What, next to Nisan Manguel?

31:19 Speaker 1 Yeah, right behind Manguel.

31:22 Speaker 2 Hmm.

31:23 Speaker 1 So he always stood-

31:24 Speaker 2 He, he came on the-- He's been on the podcast. You asked me who's been on.

31:27 Speaker 1 Who was that?

31:27 Speaker 2 Rabbi Manguel.

31:28 Speaker 1 Okay. So . So yeah, so, um, so I had a real desire to be by the Rebbe as much as possible, and of course Hashem and-

31:42 Speaker 2 What was that like as a kid at the time? What did it... What... Did you realize what was going on?

31:47 Speaker 1 Did I realize what was going on?

31:49 Speaker 2 No, no. Did, did the, did the Olam realize that something was... Like, w-how-- What was the perception of it?

31:56 Speaker 1 There was all of a sudden that we mattered so much that the children all of a sudden that nobody could chase us away from next to the Rebbe when I was-

32:06 Speaker 2 No, but there were children rallies before.

32:08 Speaker 1 Ver- yeah, very few, but the Rebbe basically made the importance from, first of all, the, the, the, the, the Hakafah with the kids, and the Rebbe said he's not gonna do it again because it was the, the, the but the Rebbe had Hakafah with the kids. There's a, there's enormous, you know-

32:24 Speaker 2 Wait, there was by the kids. That-

32:26 Speaker 1 Yeah

32:27 Speaker 2 ... kids Hakafah? What, what was born ? You're saying 'cause there was no space for the kids-

32:30 Speaker 1 The Rebbe himself went around the people. It was, it was like, you know, pushy making a Seder there. Was, was, was-

32:38 Speaker 2 No, explain. Tell me the story. I, I had no idea of the story.

32:40 Speaker 1 The Rebbe came to that Hakafah. The Rebbe said only children should be there and only, only, uh, their .

32:44 Speaker 2 It was a separate Hakafahs or it was one of the same?

32:46 Speaker 1 Hakafah, Hakafah He.

32:48 Speaker 2 So the Rebbe was-- us- would stand on the Bima for that Hakafahs, right?

32:51 Speaker 1 Yeah.

32:51 Speaker 2 So what did Rebbe want?

32:52 Speaker 1 The Rebbe wanted to dance with the kids and came to that Hakafah with the kids.

32:54 Speaker 2 W-the Rebbe wanted to come off the Bima and dance with the kids? But other Hakafahs, he stood on the Bima.

33:00 Speaker 1 Right. Only, only Hakafah Alef and Hakafah Zayin the Rebbe would go down.

33:04 Speaker 2 Rebbe would go down

33:05 Speaker 1 Dance with the Rashag. Hakafah Alef and Hakafah Zayin.

33:08 Speaker 2 Didn't he dance with Rashag on the Bima also?

33:10 Speaker 1 No. Only in the Hakafah.

33:12 Speaker 2 So Hakafah Alef and Hakafah Zayin, he would come down to Rashag and dance where?

33:16 Speaker 1 In the center, in the center Hakafah Bima. It's like the Hakafah. The, um, stage would be like, you know, twelve inches off the ground, and-

33:26 Speaker 2 So there was a higher Bima?

33:28 Speaker 1 Well, just twelve inches off the ground.

33:29 Speaker 2 No, where did the Rebbe stand the rest of that Hakafahs?

33:31 Speaker 1 Oh, all the way in the front, like at the, the, uh place.

33:33 Speaker 2 Oh, by his regular, by his regular place.

33:34 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

33:35 Speaker 2 So he didn't come to the center Bima.

33:37 Speaker 1 All the Hakafahs, he would stay in the front besides Hakafah Alef and Zayin all the years. the Rebbe came to do a children Hakafah.

33:45 Speaker 2 About... So, but Hakafah Alef and Zayin didn't come to the center, center-

33:48 Speaker 1 It didn't come to the center

33:49 Speaker 2 ... the center Bima where that's all-- that's higher.

33:52 Speaker 1 The center Bima was not higher during, during . They took it out.

33:55 Speaker 2 Oh, they took out the center Bima. Okay.

33:56 Speaker 1 They only had a lower one which was about twelve or four-- maybe fourteen inches.

33:59 Speaker 2 So how did people see?

34:01 Speaker 1 That was the . It was like the lower spot, but the everyone's with bleachers around and they saw the inside. That was the best way for everybody to see, 'cause most people on the floor wanted to see.

34:09 Speaker 2 I see.

34:09 Speaker 1 The Rebbe would be too high, they wouldn't see.

34:11 Speaker 2 I see. So that was the Vart?

34:13 Speaker 1 I'm not sure if that was the Vart, but that was-

34:14 Speaker 2 That was the Vart

34:14 Speaker 1 ... that was the practicality. That was event.

34:16 Speaker 2 S- and there was only Hakafah Alef and Zayin.

34:18 Speaker 1 Yeah.

34:19 Speaker 2 And He, he wanted to... That one-- That year he wanted to do a Hakafah with the kids-

34:22 Speaker 1 Yeah

34:22 Speaker 2 ... and also attract to the kids. He was gonna go on the Bima with the kids?

34:25 Speaker 1 On the Bima and just dance with them, not holding on, you know.

34:27 Speaker 2 All the kids would go on the Bima?

34:29 Speaker 1 On the mid-- On the middle Bima, yeah.

34:30 Speaker 2 How many kids could go on the middle Bima?

34:31 Speaker 1 So that's the thing. So the Rebbe wanted to-

34:33 Speaker 2 So every, so every was pushing their kids on.

34:35 Speaker 1 So people that have around the Ches, it's called the Ches. People that have the around the Ches wouldn't re, wouldn't be ready to give it up because they need a place for Hakafah Zayin when the Rebbe coming back, and the Rebbe made like this, . So-

34:49 Speaker 2 The, the Ches is what? The Ches was-

34:50 Speaker 1 Is the, is the metal table that was surrounding the-

34:52 Speaker 2 Around that Bima

34:53 Speaker 1 ... the center, yeah. So it was a, like a protection. So-

34:57 Speaker 2 And the Rebbe wanted the kids to be there.

34:58 Speaker 1 The Rebbe want the kids, and if there's no room, move out so there's more kids can be surrounding the Bima.

35:03 Speaker 2 Uh-huh. And, and peop-- And he, he was not ? Not .

35:10 Speaker 1 They said Rebbe that it was a . I mean, I mean, people were moving back. Obviously, the Rebbe's going like this, you move back. There was with, it was a .

35:17 Speaker 2 It was a Balagan.

35:17 Speaker 1 It was a Balagan.

35:19 Speaker 2 So it didn't happen again.

35:20 Speaker 1 Didn't happen again.

35:21 Speaker 2 Where were you that year?

35:22 Speaker 1 Right there.

35:23 Speaker 2 You, you got in?

35:24 Speaker 1 Yeah.

35:25 Speaker 2 On the actual Bima?

35:26 Speaker 1 On the actual Bima.

35:28 Speaker 2 Wow. What was that like?

35:30 Speaker 1 It was chaotic, and I saw the Rebbe. My brother was standing on the table crying, and the Rebbe went to him like this.

35:34 Speaker 2 Which brother?

35:35 Speaker 1 Ben, Bension. Three years younger than me. And-

35:39 Speaker 2 That's not Psachi, is it?

35:40 Speaker 1 It's... No, Psachi's more. He's younger than that.

35:42 Speaker 2 Yeah. Okay. Oh, Bension in, in Florida.

35:44 Speaker 1 Psachi was a year older.

35:45 Speaker 2 Bension in Florida.

35:46 Speaker 1 Yeah.

35:47 Speaker 2 Yeah.

35:48 Speaker 1 Bension's, uh... Um, um, um, Psachi was born Mem. Yeah. And he's-- Bension was born Lamed He.

35:57 Speaker 2 Right.

35:57 Speaker 1 So on the Ches is a three-year-old on the, on the thing.

35:59 Speaker 2 She was three.

36:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. Um, yeah.

36:02 Speaker 2 She was crying 'cause of the Balagan. He didn't know what's going on.

36:04 Speaker 1 Scared, yep.

36:05 Speaker 2 It's must, must be very, uh, yeah, chaotic.

36:09 Speaker 1 Yeah. I was crying many times on this, so you never prepare.

36:11 Speaker 2 How long does Hakafah last for?

36:13 Speaker 1 I don't remember.

36:14 Speaker 2 You remember what, what nigun they were singing?

36:16 Speaker 1 In general, uh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the first and last. I think it was the same one. Maybe we want Mashiach now. I can't remember. Just look in the Yamans. That-

36:25 Speaker 2 No, no, I-

36:25 Speaker 1 ... it's not Hakafah with the-

36:26 Speaker 2 I'm not so... I'm not a historian. I just wanna know what you remember.

36:30 Speaker 1 That's what I remember. I don't remember the nigun exactly, but there was definitely, uh, a lot of children there. We were singing and-

36:36 Speaker 2 I want to shout to you. So the Rebbe was standing in one place and dancing and, and-

36:39 Speaker 1 Not one place. The Rebbe was trying to make a Seder, so the Rebbe was walking around in the Ches and then make-- There was a bar mitzvah, and then someone said he's holding somebody. The Rebbe let him , and it was like it was, it was negotiations. It was, it was, it was ... It was not, not to mention names, but it's, it was, it was a Balagan.

36:56 Speaker 2 And the Rebbe wanted to dance with the kids.

36:57 Speaker 1 Yeah. So like basically one place that was affected between the Ches and the Bima, so for Breingen is like, you know, 10 people could stand there. So that whole place was cleared out. So anybody that had they had to leave for that Hakafah because the Rebbe wanted all the kids there.

37:10 Speaker 2 Right.

37:11 Speaker 1 Other places you'd have to move back

37:13 Speaker 2 So it became a Balagam.

37:14 Speaker 1 So that's moving a little back. The other place that you got out, yeah.

37:16 Speaker 2 I mean, to be fair to these people, it was very, very hard to move away.

37:19 Speaker 1 Okay.

37:19 Speaker 2 'Cause there's people pushing them in, right?

37:22 Speaker 1 Many times over the years that I wanted to say then, it wasn't like the people in front's fault that they can't just, you know, leave, you know?

37:28 Speaker 2 Right. Right.

37:29 Speaker 1 So o-over these years, I got a real... What stuck with me was just the want to be near the Rebbe the whole time, and it was in a very real way, and I felt very special.

37:38 Speaker 2 But, but, but ex-but, but explain that, though. What, what, what do you, what do you attribute that to? It's not like, you know, you had, you had loving parents. You had loving grandparents. W-w-why, like what's the, what's the pull? Homesick for Lubavitch is brought to you by Yuval Media, a boutique video production company servicing the Chabad and Jewish community. Since opening ten years ago, Yuval Media has pushed the boundaries of artistic and thoughtful storytelling in the community, with an insistence on there always being a memorable story as well as a beautiful and striking visual image that we believe is second to none. Over the years, we have worked with Chabad organizations around the country, as well as large organizations like Boniolah, Torah Mesora, and Hatalathan, guided by the belief that your story is absolutely worth telling with depth and creativity. If you are looking to tell your story with a video, please reach out to us at hello@yuvalmedia.com. Again, that is hello@yuvalmedia.com. A link can be found in the show notes. And now, back to the podcast. I hope I'm not coming across being cynical about it. I'm just trying to... Because a lot of times people say that, and it's just accepted as a devar parashat.

38:53 Speaker 1 So let me tell you. You know, on one hand, you could say you start feeling special and connected and loved and in, uh, and in awe, all at the same time.

39:04 Speaker 2 Right.

39:04 Speaker 1 When I say feel special, there's one time by Fabringen that I was standing next to the Rebbe at his side, which I u- I used to stand even before the kids started coming in. They touched my mouth, like I told you, because I was sitting in my zeda. And, uh, sometimes there was other Mishamshems that their kids were there, but it wasn't common. Then later it became common. But I was always, always made sure to be there. And at one time, I wasn't like, you know, exactly in the front or exactly where I wanted to be. So I went around the other side of the Rebbe and stuck my head outside Rabbi Chad-- in front of Rabbi Chadikov, which is unusual 'cause usually Rabbi Chadikov is the first one close to the Rebbe. Kids would be behind him or around.

39:43 Speaker 2 Right.

39:44 Speaker 1 And I just decided to, you know, stick my head out all the way. And, and the Rebbe, during the Fabringen, you know, clapped at me very strong. It was unusual during the Fabringen. And after clapping for a long time with me, asked me... Oh, it's a long time. To me, it felt like a long time. The Rebbe asked me, "Zelichaim."

40:01 Speaker 2 This is a Fabringen during the week?

40:02 Speaker 1 Shabbos.

40:03 Speaker 2 Shabbos.

40:03 Speaker 1 Shabbos Fabringen. And Rabbi Rich Spring came running with a, a bottle.

40:07 Speaker 2 So you're, you're sitting where all the kids are playing with their shoelaces, is that true?

40:10 Speaker 1 I never saw the shoelace being touched. That's a story from-

40:12 Speaker 2 So you're saying that, you're saying these stories are made up?

40:14 Speaker 1 I am not saying they're made up. I'm just saying it wasn't me, and I only just saw it myself. I was there.

40:18 Speaker 2 Okay.

40:19 Speaker 1 I used to stand over there.

40:20 Speaker 2 But that, but that, but that alleged space underneath the table.

40:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. So I was not mamish under the table itself, but a little further in front... On the other table, which has like a b-- like a, you know, every table has its posts. So I s- I stuck out my head in front of Rabbi Chadikov's chair 'cause he wasn't right next to the Rebbe.

40:37 Speaker 2 To sing. To sing.

40:38 Speaker 1 To sing. And I clapped, and the Rebbe clapped very, very strong with me. The Rebbe said, "Zelichaim." That's like a one... You say kidof, kidof that I felt. But I never felt that kidof that I wanted to, you know, like, you know, feel as if, as if not, you know, that I could, uh, th-th- like that kind of, you know, not... I remember one time, my father... This is probably Lamed Heh, probably Lamed Heh 'cause it was by someone's chuppah. So it's Lamed Heh for sure. And the Rebbe waved to me, so I waved back. My father got so upset at me.

41:13 Speaker 2 Oh, you were at a chuppah?

41:14 Speaker 1 I was at, I was... I'm, I'm just remembering the story.

41:16 Speaker 2 You were at a chuppah and the Rebbe was walking by?

41:17 Speaker 1 Rebbe, no, the Rebbe went home. The Rebbe went home after the chuppah. It was like five o'clock in the afternoon. It was a day chuppah. And the Rebbe went home. The Rebbe, to the Rebbe's home, like for an hour. The Rebbe would go home for an hour, five o'clock.

41:29 Speaker 2 So he was walking past the chuppah on his way home.

41:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, I was in the car already.

41:32 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

41:32 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe looked at me, and the Rebbe waved-

41:34 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

41:34 Speaker 1 ... like this, and I waved back.

41:36 Speaker 2 How old were you?

41:38 Speaker 1 I said Lamed Heh. Lamed Heh is, uh-

41:40 Speaker 2 Seven years old

41:40 Speaker 1 ... seven years old. And my father gave me such a chelek. He said, "Put hands. Why up the hands to zich? It's Rebbe. Mach mir mit, mit the hand." So I said, "He made heys to me. He made heys to me." He says, "In a Yiddish said, which is a chaver, Yiddish chaver, to stay behind, behind soldat. So stay behind Rebbe, behind soldat, all the hands to zich." And I got that a lot from my father in general about this, uh, this Kabbalah sale, this, this, you know, that you're just real... Remember when you're around the Rebbe that this is not, uh, this is not something you feel uncomfortable with. This is, this... And so the awe was there very strong, but in the same time, there was a... It was like I couldn't get enough of it. I always wanted to be more. I always wanted to have a front place by davening in the front, never miss it. And the Rebbe used to give nickels. I used to be there so many times the Rebbe gave out nickels. And-

42:31 Speaker 2 Do, do you think the two things were in conflict, the, the kid of the old school, like your, your father's, uh, approach and what the Rebbe was trying to do with the children?

42:40 Speaker 1 I don't think so.

42:41 Speaker 2 No?

42:41 Speaker 1 I think he instilled to me that the relationship should be a healthy one. The healthy relationship was that this from Rebbe, how, how, how stupid it would be if I would be a child growing up and thinking that I'm just a-

42:53 Speaker 2 A friend

42:53 Speaker 1 ... a friend. And, uh, to know that I'm, I'm ne- to know what I'm next to at a young age was a beautiful, beautiful gift I got from my father.

43:02 Speaker 2 Right.

43:02 Speaker 1 I loved it. I'm very, very, I'm very, I'm very, um, indebted to my father for, for giving me the kind of, uh, the kind of very strong, very, not strong, very, um, absolute Um, hadracha, that this is, you know, this is emes, and this is the Rebbe, and it's all that, all that matters. And being a Hasid is all that matters

43:26 Speaker 2 But a sadat is like a, is, is, is not usually seen as something of, of kiruv. And what you're describing is the Rebbe as being mekarev children. So how do the two go together in your mind?

43:39 Speaker 1 That the Rebbe shows me that he's, that he's being mekarev, and in, in return, I wanna remain a Hasid.

43:47 Speaker 2 Hmm.

43:48 Speaker 1 So if a kiruv will make you, you know, uh, feel comfortable, you know, you... He was, he was, he was making me, you know, realize that, you know, it's unbelievable the Rebbe showing you kiruv, you know. It's, uh... But you have to remember that you want, you wanna stay a Hasid. You wanna re- you wanna, you wanna n-nurture that relationship pro-properly. And I'm blessed with that. I probably went by the Rebbe by d'alos so many times. I don't remember ever saying a word. I always asked the moske to say for me. For some reason, I never felt comfortable to, you know, to, to voice my, my request to the Rebbe. I always had the moske ask for me, and something that stayed with me till tefilin days.

44:24 Speaker 2 All right. So explain that for a second. By cheridus, Bochur wouldn't speak to the Rebbe?

44:28 Speaker 1 First of all, not my age. We never went near the Rebbe.

44:30 Speaker 2 No, but I know, I know, but I'm asking you.

44:32 Speaker 1 Oh, of course it was okay to speak, the Rebbe wanted to speak, but it was-

44:35 Speaker 2 I'm saying, so why do you feel suddenly that there's this idea that you can't talk to the Rebbe?

44:39 Speaker 1 Never felt I can't. I didn't feel, I didn't feel worthy enough or, uh-

44:43 Speaker 2 No, but, but all the Bochurim did before.

44:45 Speaker 1 Right. I just didn't-

44:46 Speaker 2 See, it wasn't, it wasn't-

44:47 Speaker 1 It was me

44:48 Speaker 2 ... Uh, it was you. It wasn't that you felt this was the thing to do.

44:50 Speaker 1 No, no. It wasn't the derech that I believed in. No.

44:52 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

44:54 Speaker 1 I just, that, that's every time I went by, by, by d'alos, I just couldn't. I just tapped on the neshama, my melavus. You know, you know, I would tap quickly the moske and say just to mention or if you wanted to mention this my melavus. That's it. Uh, no other reason I have to say anything.

45:09 Speaker 2 Bochurim in general would, would, would do that, or?

45:11 Speaker 1 Nope. It was back. It was, was, uh, it was equal, I think. People that said, people that didn't say.

45:16 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. Do you regret now that you d- that you ever, that you never, uh, spoke?

45:23 Speaker 1 You know what? I don't think I can say the word regret. The word regret would be for things that I didn't do proper, that I could have done more. Pay attention more by farbrengen, not distract myself, you know, take more... And it's things that years later felt to me that there was moments that I was there that I could've, that I was right there, I could've remembered better, adhered to better. In the words of... In, in, in the list of regrets, it doesn't... No. It's, it's, I'm not so confident that this is like... But I maybe once or twice I should have let the Rebbe hear me, and, and maybe, you know, I would be uplifted more for that. I remember once at a time I didn't want to speak to the Rebbe. I wanted to say something, but I couldn't. The Rebbe, תשג, Erev Rosh Chodesh אלול. Recently a video came out on Jam that could, I, I could explain exactly what people see in that video 'cause it'll, it's sliced in middle from when the story that happened, and you see the later part of it. So Erev Rosh Hashanah, the Rebbe was going to the mikvah, and-

46:21 Speaker 2 So this is תש, אל תשג?

46:23 Speaker 1 Right. Erev Rosh Chodesh אלול. And I'm the last one by the car, and the Rebbe was giving out nickels to everybody, to all the kids. And I'm the last one, and the Rebbe stops by me, and the Rebbe goes like this, and like this, and like this. So he's telling me that he doesn't have any.

46:40 Speaker 2 He ran out.

46:41 Speaker 1 Yeah. So as a kid, I felt like he's telling it to me. I should tell him I'm okay. You know, uh, the words that were thinking in my brain was ""It was the words that I was telling myself to say, but I... The words that never came out. It wasn't a shita, it wasn't a derech, it just didn't come out.

46:58 Speaker 2 And you were then 11 years old.

47:00 Speaker 1 So I was 11 years old, yeah, 'cause, uh, it was Rosh Hashanah time, so in אלול I would be 12. In year תשע"ז I would be, I would be 12 that year. So I was 11.

47:11 Speaker 2 I mean, you've got... You're also 11 years old. A lot of 11 year olds are shy to talk to-

47:15 Speaker 1 I wasn't

47:16 Speaker 2 ... You're saying to, to, in general-

47:17 Speaker 1 I was comfortable then at that, at that age-

47:19 Speaker 2 You-

47:19 Speaker 1 ... to talk to, to talk to adults.

47:21 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

47:21 Speaker 1 But I, and I was thinking in my brain I should tell the Rebbe that I'm, that I'm okay-

47:25 Speaker 2 But-

47:25 Speaker 1 ... so the Rebbe shouldn't have to worry for me. The Rebbe turned around, and there was a person that wanted to give a reiki. I saw a quarter and a nickel in his hand. The Rebbe went like this. The Rebbe went back from his car to his room to get me a nickel. This is from his car, and this is Erev Rosh Hashanah.

47:39 Speaker 2 By the mikvah, he went-

47:41 Speaker 1 No. The Rebbe was in 770 going to the mikvah.

47:43 Speaker 2 Oh, going to the mikvah.

47:43 Speaker 1 And is, I was the last boy before the car.

47:46 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

47:46 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe went back. By the time the Rebbe came back, more kids were there, and more kids got nickels, but the whole bag of nickels came.

47:53 Speaker 2 Oh.

47:53 Speaker 1 Um, so to me it was, again, there was no question. I ran to my father. I looked for my father downstairs to tell the story that the Rebbe for me... So for my... I don't know if for my father was oy vey, you know. He made the Rebbe go all the way back just for what happened for you. But to me, it was just for me. This is Erev Rosh Hashanah, and just for me that the Rebbe was going all the way back. It meant-

48:12 Speaker 2 What... And what did your father, your father say something?

48:15 Speaker 1 No, it's... No, not, not negative.

48:18 Speaker 2 Right.

48:19 Speaker 1 No. I was standing in line waiting for a nickel-

48:21 Speaker 2 He, he knew you were wrong. Yeah

48:22 Speaker 1 ... No. There were times that Bochurim told me to go away because the Rebbe was like, "Always have to give me a nickel." So I would hide. But then the Rebbe would see me hide, and the Rebbe would go like this, take longer.

48:30 Speaker 2 But you were the only boy that-

48:31 Speaker 1 Sometimes I was there when-

48:32 Speaker 2 ... wanted a nickel

48:32 Speaker 1 ... the Rebbe was going to the mikvah or whatever, and I was always, I was trying to... I was there m-more often than other kids were.

48:37 Speaker 2 To get a nickel?

48:38 Speaker 1 No. I went to see the Rebbe.

48:39 Speaker 2 Just to be there?

48:41 Speaker 1 I just wanted to see the Rebbe all the time.

48:43 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

48:44 Speaker 1 So that's a very, you know, I can say right away. I don't, I can't, I can't pinpoint what made me do it. But basically, whatever my, my urge was to the Rebbe, w-to, to, to, to, to what the Rebbe is, it translated in a d- in, in Yichudsei. There's no question. All the books and all the sichas, everything you learn. There's no learning, learning and davening is the right thing, and just looking, uh, "" It's not like, uh, it's not like, you know, you have to go to big mashpia to get it. But for some reason, you know, that was just what was my... It's a tevi, it's a hada. It was very strong, and that's why I went very often, and I... And it's not one of the things I regret.

49:27 Speaker 2 Right. So, so let's, let-let's, let-let's, let's spend some time about, uh, your father, who a lot of people listening to this, and I, I remember him from Ohel Torah. We saw one side of your father. But, uh, I'm sure there's, there's a side of him that you knew as a, as, as a son.

49:46 Speaker 1 Yeah.

49:46 Speaker 2 T-t-talk, talk a little bit about your father. For those who, for those who haven't put it together, Rabbi Pinny Korff.

49:53 Speaker 1 So my father was Ish L'chmi. Really Ish L'chmi.

49:57 Speaker 2 Yeah, no kidding.

49:58 Speaker 1 And he-

50:00 Speaker 2 One second. Is it true that he didn't sleep in a bed after Gemara Talmid or something?

50:04 Speaker 1 Not true. Not true. Not true. He basically would fall asleep on the chair. Had a neck :] next to him if he fall asleep too long, but he would try to finish Rambam, and many times it would be way in the AM, and he ended up in bed. But it was not that he made up not to go to bed because of Gilmotalas.

50:21 Speaker 2 Ah.

50:21 Speaker 1 No.

50:22 Speaker 2 So there's people... It's a legend that people made up.

50:25 Speaker 1 Yeah, it's not true.

50:26 Speaker 2 All right. Now that we clarified that, let's go back to your story.

50:29 Speaker 1 Father was a ish ruchni. He did the right things, and he was very into his avoda of, uh, mashpia-- being a mashpia for bochurim. It meant so much to him. He cared for bochurim. And he would come home every evening from seven to eight for din- for dinner. And from a young age, we always knew that we, even if we ate earlier when we came home, usually it was just cookies and milk. We went, we wanted to eat with my father, and my father would always read Something was read by the table. There was always a dinner table. We always sat down. Saper, we called it.

51:02 Speaker 2 Saper. Saper.

51:03 Speaker 1 My father would say, "Saper. Nu, come saper."

51:05 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

51:06 Speaker 1 He'd sit down.

51:06 Speaker 2 What is that, a Yiddish, uh-

51:07 Speaker 1 It's-

51:08 Speaker 2 Way of saying English?

51:08 Speaker 1 It's pronunciation. It's pronunciation of English, but it's not supper, it was saper.

51:11 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

51:12 Speaker 1 So he would say, "Come, let's do saper," and we would sit down. We'd always say a word. There was no such thing as, as wasting time. There was no such thing as a table with, with divrei chail. There was no such thing as a tolerance to, to something which wasn't an aveida. And a, a meal has to be in a kodesh. It has to be So we, we respected my father immensely. There's no... There's never anybody in our family that didn't look at him as, and has cared for us. I used to bother him when he used to walk with me. I said, "Pa, I'm not walking you for free. See, he used to tell me stories that have been So over the years, and I was young, we used to walk. It's a long walk from Utica to 770. So there were times I used to walk with him, and he used to tell me stories. Do I remember them all? No, but it was those, those stories of... Stories that say my mother Or stories that he only knew, but was-

52:04 Speaker 2 He knew, he knew a lot of maissos.

52:05 Speaker 1 He knew a lot of maissos.

52:07 Speaker 2 He, he picked that up from his father or just in general?

52:10 Speaker 1 I don't... I think in general, he remembered stories very well. He remembered the details very well.

52:14 Speaker 2 Right. He had a kush for stories.

52:16 Speaker 1 Yeah. And so most of the sefarim is now that they're writing them down. So they're all usually stories that he just remembers. He could sit for two hours and just, uh, you know, you know, share stories.

52:26 Speaker 2 Did you feel, did you feel that he was down to earth as a father?

52:32 Speaker 1 Of course. Um, you know, he wa- he cared. What- was like an aveida. You know, he was like, "You know what, what has to be done, well, I'll take care of you, you know, like, if you need it." There was always and, and... But he-

52:48 Speaker 2 No, because a ki- you're talking about the ruchnis at the table, but a, a kid, at the end of the day, a lot of the things they need from their father is, are gashmiyusike things.

52:56 Speaker 1 So it wasn't that he's c- he should relate things that I care about in order... I'll tell you something. It's interesting you saying that because I remember it was a Mordechai Ben David concert, and he knew that I would like a Mordechai Ben David concert, and I was shocked that he bought me a ticket. And it was Motzei Shabbos for, for, it was for Pisuoshim Tov Shemira. So he asked Pisuoshim Tov if it, if it could be from the same one. For the, for my, for my masa call or something like, you know. And then, and, and, and I remember, I remember Pisuoshim Tov standing there and saying, "Yeah, yeah, I can have the rookie." So I think I, whatever it was, my father wa- want, you know, helped me to go to a concert. My father always took me. My u- my brother, he also needed swings and go to Coney Island. He would take me with him. We always went to camp, thanks only from a very young age.

53:42 Speaker 2 Your father would go for the summer?

53:43 Speaker 1 My father went to, went to Siberia. He was there for the winter.

53:45 Speaker 2 Right, the Alter, the Alter group.

53:47 Speaker 1 Yeah.

53:47 Speaker 2 Right.

53:48 Speaker 1 So I used to go there from before my... From five years old, I went. I joined, I joined Bon Calef when I was like, you know, underage, you know. I was always in Gan Yisroel. I don't think... It was never f- never a thing that, you know, that I wanted and I didn't get. In other words, like it was reasonable, you know. You know, You know,

54:06 Speaker 2 Right.

54:07 Speaker 1 And always in the Gan Yisroel, the one year that I was-

54:09 Speaker 2 He wasn't, he wasn't looking to deprive you from gashmiyus. In the name of, in the name of ruchnis-

54:12 Speaker 1 No, but he didn't want me to make it, he didn't want me to make the, an issue of gashmiyus. But it wasn't like, you know, that, you know, we... I, I, I didn't feel... I felt sometimes, you know, maybe jealous of the kids have more or have, you know, go to a pizza shop, go to this, and I don't, and... But it wasn't-

54:27 Speaker 2 He was anti-pizza or it concerned-

54:28 Speaker 1 No, he didn't, he didn't-

54:28 Speaker 2 He didn't have the money for it

54:30 Speaker 1 ... we probably didn't have the money, but we didn't go out much to, to, to places. It wasn't, it wasn't such a upbringing by us too much. But we, you know, if I wanna m- I, I remember going to the pizza shop before farbrengen 'cause I went on, um, left Zayen. There w- it wasn't like it was the pride. I don't think it was the pride. No.

54:44 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

54:45 Speaker 1 He used to take me 'cause of my brother, every time he used to come home, he had to go to swing, he had to go to the park, he had to, he had to go to Coney Island and, and ride. So he used to take me both, uh, both together. I don't think any, all of my friends went.

54:56 Speaker 2 Right.

54:57 Speaker 1 So even the one year that I, my father's beard was cut in So I wasn't sure if he was going to camp.

55:03 Speaker 2 Oh, one sec. Uh, when the story with the Satmar they cut-

55:05 Speaker 1 Yeah

55:05 Speaker 2 ... his beard, so he didn't wanna go to camp 'cause he was in a beard?

55:08 Speaker 1 So there was a question if his, uh, 'Cause he was being watched all the time 'cause they threatened him that, uh, that something is gonna be done to him or something. They felt if there was some, there was some threats if he goes open and if he... And he did. He did make a whole court case. So he did feel threatened by them. So there was a question by the Rabbonim if he should go to the Gan Yisroel. There's less protection. There's no, it is just a camp.

55:29 Speaker 2 What, in Crown Heights you walked home with bodyguards?

55:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, the bochurim loved it. The bochurim had, uh, sticks and stuff. There was always downstairs at my house, the bochurim standing there.

55:38 Speaker 2 Did you know that the Rebbe had people walking behind him also with like, with sticks also?

55:42 Speaker 1 I know there were people behind the Rebbe. I didn't know about sticks.

55:45 Speaker 2 Aron Cousin told me a story. You know Aron Cousin?

55:48 Speaker 1 No.

55:48 Speaker 2 He walked once with, uh, with, with Shloime Kunin, and they, they had, they had sticks.

55:54 Speaker 1 Right.

55:54 Speaker 2 And That Rebbe once, um, one time that they were walking behind the Rebbe and somebody from the neighborhood who looked a little bit sketchy started approaching the Rebbe, and the Rebbe stopped and looked towards them

56:09 Speaker 1 You never know.

56:09 Speaker 2 Yeah. He told me the story. It's quite a story, by the way. Like, uh, you there with me or not? Are you... Like, do you notice? Are you noticing?

56:19 Speaker 1 No, like-

56:21 Speaker 2 Are you, you-you-you here with me or you're not here with me?

56:25 Speaker 1 I've...

56:26 Speaker 2 Needless to say, they were they were... they came running with their sticks, but they were more than happy to oblige. And, and the fellow left very quickly, but... So you see, the bach-

56:37 Speaker 1 So, so what happened-

56:37 Speaker 2 The bochur, the bochur followed your father with sticks.

56:39 Speaker 1 So, so, so what I was trying to say is that I wasn't deprived. I said, "You know what? I never went to Gan Yisroel Montreal. Let me go to my Gan Yisroel Montreal." So 'cause, 'cause if you're not going to Gan Yisroel New York, could I... They would let us go for free if my father was there as a staff.

56:51 Speaker 2 Right.

56:52 Speaker 1 So if you're not going there, let me put him in Gan Yisroel Montreal. So I was on the bus ready to go to Gan Yisroel Montreal when the rebbonim said that he could stay in-

56:59 Speaker 2 Parkville

56:59 Speaker 1 ... Parkville. So my uncle, Avrahamo, pulled me off the bus and said, "Go and hop on the bus. Come to Gan Yisroel New York." So-

57:07 Speaker 2 He wasn't in Florida?

57:08 Speaker 1 No, he was here in Crown Heights then, so he-

57:10 Speaker 2 Come then.

57:10 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So I'm just saying that, you know, he was-

57:13 Speaker 2 Yeah

57:13 Speaker 1 ... people were protecting my father. He should have to pay seven hundred and fifty dollars, you know. Money he doesn't have, so.

57:17 Speaker 2 Right.

57:18 Speaker 1 So I went to Gan Yisroel, but he never felt-

57:20 Speaker 2 But he, but he would've sent you there.

57:20 Speaker 1 He would've sent me, yeah. He already had... The check was written, you know. It was, it was, it was always... I never, I never felt really deprived. I felt like we was living a ruchnisdike life, and it's a beautiful thing, and I'm, I'm blessed to be part of this. Tultov Shimen, uh, Gimel. So like thirteen years, we were in that, uh, you know, small house with the two bedrooms. But then we moved into a very large, uh, apartment with six bedrooms, and later went down to three. But whatever. It wasn't, it wasn't like a de... From definitely Gimel and on, I never felt really deprivation or less, less than others.

57:51 Speaker 2 All right.

57:52 Speaker 1 No, but, uh, what I got from my father throughout all the time was unbelievable care. It was when you needed something, the attention was all the way. But we respected him a lot. We just realized that whatever he tells us is real. It's that mess, and it's, uh, it's for our good.

58:08 Speaker 2 Yeah. That's interesting. A mashpi-- The, you know, mashpia is a, is a, is an interesting, uh, space to be in. I, you know, I saw it when I was in Yeshivat also. 'Cause like on one hand, the mashpia exists in a world of bochurim, which is a very abstract world, you know, where like, uh, you know, like you're in a world where, where there's everyone around you is bochurim. They have no dayeis. It's, you know, in India it's all, uh, avodah ruchnius, and you're davening the whole day and vibbering the whole day and, and there's nothing to worry about besides that. But a mashpia with children has has things to worry about. So y-you know, it, it always like, what does it look like on that side of it? You know, and, and if someone like your father, who was a very, you know, bochurim, to bochurim, he looked like someone who lived in his own world almost. It's interesting to, to, to think about what he was like as a, as a father for especially with younger children. I'm sure as, as you got older, you became like a bochur.

59:08 Speaker 1 So I got older quick. Even before my bar mitzvah, I already, uh, started going to seven seventy like regularly, looking at every, every mechayim, talking about Kriya. 'Cause I went to... Those years we were still like young when we went to high school until mesivta, so I was like twelve years old, share Alef. So I just went constantly to mechayims, to the rebbe's, to the rebbe's Kriya, skipped school, you know, have- had excuses or whatever. And then like for a long time, Rabbi Groner, who lived across the street of us, would drive me home every night after Mayrav because I was... No way I could walk home alone.

59:42 Speaker 2 Rabbi Groner also lived all the way over there?

59:44 Speaker 1 He lived across the street between Hero and connectivity.

59:46 Speaker 2 So every day he-

59:47 Speaker 1 He would drive, he would drive over. And Shabbos, uh, later years, he had an apartment from Kol HaKabad there. He had... He stayed in the Kol HaKabad, uh, building. Shabbos. He had a Shabbos apartment.

59:57 Speaker 2 He was, he was told to live over there?

59:58 Speaker 1 So basically, by the rebbe in general, whenever you lived in an area... It's, it's lately, by the way, the nice, nice video from Jem on Shin Chof Tes in regards to Shem Israel. They bring out the point about Crown Heights, where the rebbe said it's n- you're not supposed to leave a neighborhood because for your own benefit and leave people behind. So once my father moved there, Tuv Sheva Lamed, he wanted to move once to be next to my grandmother because she wasn't feeling well. And the rebbe said that the foolish Lamed will come from So to my father, it was right away. He's never moving out of that neighborhood. Eventually, in Tuv Sheva Mem Tes, we had a fire, and we had to move, and Rabbi Heller said it's considered Chizik Hashana. We moved to 888 Montgomery. And then after my grandmother passed away, my Zayda asked us to move into the Kingston Avenue house with him.

1:00:47 Speaker 2 To help him out.

1:00:48 Speaker 1 He didn't wanna live alone.

1:00:49 Speaker 2 Right.

1:00:49 Speaker 1 He didn't wanna live alone. He wants us to move in with him.

1:00:51 Speaker 2 Right.

1:00:52 Speaker 1 I became his roommate.

1:00:53 Speaker 2 You Zayda's roommate? How was that?

1:00:58 Speaker 1 How-

1:00:58 Speaker 2 How, no, how was it? What was like-

1:01:00 Speaker 1 Very close. Me and my Zayda were very close.

1:01:02 Speaker 2 All the years?

1:01:03 Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, he's a bar mitzvah person. He's a bar mitzvah person. I, my Zayda used to go to Yichas, like I told you, every year at the Rebbe, and it was long Yichas than some of them. And I used to, I used to walk with him afterwards. He used to tell to me, I didn't write it down. Those are my regrets, writing it down or really remembering a lot of, a lot of details. But there were kid of the Yichasin.

1:01:22 Speaker 2 Where was he- Where, where was he? Where was your Zayda from? What, what's, what's his story?

1:01:27 Speaker 1 So my Zayda, interestingly, um, is Nikolaev, and then is Kharkov. So where exactly he was when he was Nik- how long he was in Nikolaev and when he ended up in Kharkov.

1:01:39 Speaker 2 He came from a Babsha family?

1:01:41 Speaker 1 I don't know. My, my Zayda's name is not Korv. You know that.

1:01:44 Speaker 2 No.

1:01:44 Speaker 1 So really. So my Zayda's father's name is Shalom Korv, but he was originally Khartanov.

1:01:50 Speaker 2 Oh, you're a Khartanov?

1:01:52 Speaker 1 Yeah. We're a Khartanov.

1:01:55 Speaker 2 So they changed their name what? For papers?

1:01:57 Speaker 1 My... For, for papers, not to go to the army. So there was a, a rule that one of the ways to dodge the army was if you were a single child to someone.

1:02:06 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

1:02:06 Speaker 1 There was a couple named Korv that did not have any children, and he was adopted by them, and he got their name

1:02:13 Speaker 2 Your zeide is Shie Korf

1:02:14 Speaker 1 Zeide is father. Shie Korf's father, Gedalia.

1:02:17 Speaker 2 Gedalia Korf. So he was adopted to avoid the army?

1:02:20 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:02:22 Speaker 2 Right.

1:02:22 Speaker 1 And his, Gedalia's father, Rabbi Avrum, he had brothers that were kn- known to be baal menagdim, Shalom and Aaron.

1:02:31 Speaker 2 Your, your grandfather's uncles.

1:02:32 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:02:32 Speaker 2 Your great-grandfather's uncles.

1:02:33 Speaker 1 My grandfather's uncles.

1:02:34 Speaker 2 Your grandfather's uncles.

1:02:35 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:02:36 Speaker 2 So Gedalia Kor- Gedalia Korf-

1:02:39 Speaker 1 It was-

1:02:39 Speaker 2 ... nee Chortonov's brothers were menagdim.

1:02:41 Speaker 1 Yes, and he was also a menagem, but not a composer. He sang.

1:02:44 Speaker 2 Right.

1:02:45 Speaker 1 And his father, Rabbi Avrum, was also a baal menagem, and he composed a few.

1:02:48 Speaker 2 Right.

1:02:48 Speaker 1 The famous It's, um, um, the famous, uh, There's a few others. And then their grandfathers also were all Hasidim. There's another two generations at least. There's a, there's a-- By now they found it, everything, the story about it.

1:03:06 Speaker 2 So your zeide, your zeide, Shie Korf, so so you, so, so you say he grew up at spent some time in Nikolaev as a boy.

1:03:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, he was, he was a yesom at a very young age, nine years old, and he ended-

1:03:18 Speaker 2 His father, Gedalia, passed away.

1:03:19 Speaker 1 Yes. He ended up being raised by his zeide, Pinya, which is his mother's father. His, his mother's father. And he-- Why am I saying that he was a yesom? He ended up being a bachur that, that was working in the yeshiva in Kharkov. And in Kharkov, there was this little restaurant, a lady-

1:03:39 Speaker 2 But this, but this in the days of who? Which Rebbe?

1:03:41 Speaker 1 Of the Rebbe, of the Frierdiker Rebbe. He never made it to the Rebbe Rashab. Couldn't afford the train.

1:03:45 Speaker 2 Okay.

1:03:46 Speaker 1 So he never made it to Lubavitch. He-

1:03:49 Speaker 2 'Cause he couldn't afford it.

1:03:50 Speaker 1 Couldn't afford it.

1:03:50 Speaker 2 Pashke, he couldn't afford it.

1:03:51 Speaker 1 Couldn't afford it. He was yesom. He didn't, didn't have anything.

1:03:54 Speaker 2 How old was he when the Rebbe Rashab passed away?

1:03:56 Speaker 1 So he was three years younger than the Rebbe, So he's born, uh, not, uh,

1:04:05 Speaker 2 So he w- he would have been not that old.

1:04:07 Speaker 1 Right.

1:04:07 Speaker 2 He's, it wasn't like he-

1:04:09 Speaker 1 Right.

1:04:09 Speaker 2 He was a bar mitzvah bachur essentially.

1:04:10 Speaker 1 Yeah, he was fifteen, sixteen, yeah. Maybe.

1:04:12 Speaker 2 He would have had to go to Rostov at that point also.

1:04:14 Speaker 1 Right. Right. But he, but he was brought to the Frierdiker Rebbe, but before that, he used to go to this restaurant, and this lady used to cook. That's where bach-- all of the bochurim used to eat.

1:04:24 Speaker 2 In, in Kharkov.

1:04:25 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe used to come there to visit his brother, Berel.

1:04:29 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

1:04:29 Speaker 1 'Cause my fa- my grandfather knew the Rebbe's brother Berel, And he said that they used to talk to the Rebbe learning. He used to talk to the Rebbe at the, uh, at the place of eating. So he-- that's how he knew, that's, that's how he knew the Rebbe, from Kharkov.

1:04:46 Speaker 2 Yeah, I heard a, I heard a great story from Yossel Motzkin, um, about that time. Apparently, he, he heard it from his fa-- from his zeide, I think. I forget. Uh, Shimonovich? Um, I think that's who he said he heard it from. That the Rebbe came to spend time with his brother in Kharkov. His brother was in the hospital there, right? And he says if-- it seems like the Rebbe originally came for less, like for a shorter visit, then ended up staying for almost a whole year or something. And he says, uh, the, the point was that the, the Rebbe came-- he had one shirt with him. And by the time, by the time he was, like, the ti-- the duration he was there, even though the, the shirt was washed, it was black. And, um, no, I, I, I was just-- I, I remember being very moved by the story of, like, what a brother does for, for, for his, for his younger brother. Now you have all the stories of how the Rebbe spent all his time learning, you know, at that age, and he, he wasn't looking to go out. He wasn't out and about in general, you know. He spent his-- sat at home the whole day learning, and he had a brother and spent... Yeah.

1:06:03 Speaker 1 Yeah, so my fa- my grandfather didn't tell me much about it. He just told me that he would come often, and he told me that he would meet with the Rebbe at the same place 'cause they would eat in the same place by the same lady.

1:06:12 Speaker 2 Oh, they, they ate together.

1:06:14 Speaker 1 Yeah. He says it was a place where they called a restaurant.

1:06:16 Speaker 2 But the Rebbe wasn't part of the yeshiva there.

1:06:17 Speaker 1 No, it wasn't a yeshiva. It was a lady that was a rest-

1:06:20 Speaker 2 No, but-

1:06:20 Speaker 1 It was a restaurant, so to speak, and that's where my grandfather used to eat.

1:06:22 Speaker 2 Also bachur in yeshiva.

1:06:23 Speaker 1 Yeah, I guess there was arrangements.

1:06:25 Speaker 2 I guess that's where the young, the bachurim ate. The Roshei Yeshiva ate there.

1:06:28 Speaker 1 But he said it wa-- he said they called it a restaurant. You were able to pay to eat.

1:06:31 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

1:06:32 Speaker 1 So you-- that's, that's where they both ate.

1:06:35 Speaker 2 And he would speak to the Rebbe there.

1:06:37 Speaker 1 He didn't elaborate, but the, that's where they said-

1:06:39 Speaker 2 He remembers him from there.

1:06:40 Speaker 1 He says that, that they, they

1:06:43 Speaker 2 Right.

1:06:43 Speaker 1 That they knew each other from there.

1:06:46 Speaker 2 Was it common back then for there to be Lubavitchers who weren't part of the, like, the strict yeshiva system?

1:06:52 Speaker 1 So I don't know, but I know that Lapeal, the Frierdiker Rebbe, they wanted to build up the place around Frierdiker Rebbe. It was especially before Pe'er Zayin, and my grandfather was brought to Frierdiker Rebbe. They wanted to bring bachurim there. Was then communism was, was terrible.

1:07:05 Speaker 2 Where was the Rebbe then?

1:07:06 Speaker 1 Leningrad.

1:07:07 Speaker 2 Leningrad.

1:07:08 Speaker 1 And my zeide was from the, was from the, uh, cheder of the Memarom.

1:07:14 Speaker 2 No, but I'm saying that the Rebbe never joined the yeshivas.

1:07:17 Speaker 1 Oh, the Rebbe didn't join yeshiva.

1:07:18 Speaker 2 So was it a com-- was it a, was it a common thing?

1:07:21 Speaker 1 I can imagine in Russia not everybody got to do everything, uh, but the, what the Rebbe did was the Rebbe's, was the Rebbe didn't-

1:07:27 Speaker 2 No, but in, but in those-

1:07:28 Speaker 1 ... needed something, needed something very different.

1:07:30 Speaker 2 No, but in those days, I was wondering how they, how they, how they, how they, um, how they thought of it.

1:07:36 Speaker 1 I don't know.

1:07:37 Speaker 2 You don't know?

1:07:38 Speaker 1 Don't know nothing.

1:07:39 Speaker 2 So your, your zeide after, after Kharkov went to Leningrad and was one of the chederim.

1:07:44 Speaker 1 Yeah. So that's late Pe-- mid-Pe is late, mid, mid, mid Pe's.

1:07:48 Speaker 2 But this is already in the very difficult years.

1:07:49 Speaker 1 Very difficult years. That's why they wanted bachurim to come. They needed a, they needed-

1:07:53 Speaker 2 But it was the, the yeshiva never, like, took a-

1:07:55 Speaker 1 Right

1:07:56 Speaker 2 ... full form of a yeshiva.

1:07:57 Speaker 1 The, the, there were people, askanim, that were making it happen, and my zeide was brought.

1:08:01 Speaker 2 But I'm saying the yeshiva never took the shape of-

1:08:03 Speaker 1 Right

1:08:03 Speaker 2 ... the old-time chederim-

1:08:04 Speaker 1 Exactly

1:08:04 Speaker 2 ... with the whole-

1:08:05 Speaker 1 It was very difficult times.

1:08:08 Speaker 2 Right. But they were trying to make some semblance of a yeshiva in Leningrad.

1:08:13 Speaker 1 He didn't talk to me much about that. He used to hazard to me stories that happened that, you know, hiding some of the Frierdiker Rebbe that he took, and he was supposed to give back after the, uh, the arrest. It's Um, you know, 'cause they gave it to him to hold onto so if there's-

1:08:27 Speaker 2 Shabbos, Shabbos of, uh, of, of my mother.

1:08:30 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, if they would confiscate it and not, not make it back to the Vidik Rebbe, but they wanted to make sure things stay whole, they gave out to people-

1:08:38 Speaker 2 But the keg-

1:08:38 Speaker 1 To hold on

1:08:38 Speaker 2 ... the kegiu was after that?

1:08:40 Speaker 1 They were worried to lose things, so they gave it out.

1:08:43 Speaker 2 Oh, kegiu is after all papers.

1:08:44 Speaker 1 They were-- Things that-- He only told me was things that Saviat and my mother, things that they were scared to lose. They gave it out to different people, made it in the gap, and then

1:08:52 Speaker 2 So-

1:08:52 Speaker 1 And I gave it all back

1:08:54 Speaker 2 And not everybody gave it back.

1:08:55 Speaker 1 Not everybody gave it all back. That's like... He told me an interesting story that happened once. Then he told me that, um, one time he was by chazzling a maimer with Vidik Rebbe, and the maimer took it in Gan Eden. And in the middle, there was an important phone call about the situation. So the Vidik Rebbe said, "From Gan Eden in Blatter." And he went to take the phone call.

1:09:17 Speaker 2 In the middle of the maimer?

1:09:17 Speaker 1 In the middle of my, no, middle of, of my zeide chazzling back the maimer. The Chazzim used to chazzle back the maimer-

1:09:22 Speaker 2 Right

1:09:23 Speaker 1 ... with the Vidik Rebbe. So he was chazzling the maimer with the Vidik Rebbe as a chazzor.

1:09:27 Speaker 2 Yeah, but it was a s- very serious ti-

1:09:28 Speaker 1 Serious

1:09:29 Speaker 2 ... uh, with the, with the-

1:09:30 Speaker 1 Wouldn't interrupt. Wouldn't interrupt otherwise

1:09:32 Speaker 2 ... wouldn't everywhere Gartel when he was doing it?

1:09:33 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. It was a very serious time. It was a serious moment, he said. It was like that maimer. And then he came back from the phone call, Vidik Rebbe said, "With a niggen." He said, "Niggen Gan Eden."

1:09:43 Speaker 2 Wow, that's a story.

1:09:44 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:09:45 Speaker 2 That's a story.

1:09:46 Speaker 1 So my zeide really felt that strong. And the Vidik Rebbe would, like, be so present in the maimer.

1:09:52 Speaker 2 From Gan Eden in Blatter to-

1:09:53 Speaker 1 Blatter. And then he said he came back, he said, "With a niggen." He said, "Niggen Gan Eden," like, like a maimer, like a maimer tune.

1:09:59 Speaker 2 Hmm. What a, what a story. That's a beautiful story.

1:10:02 Speaker 1 Yeah.

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1:10:40 Speaker 1 My zeide in general over the years-

1:10:42 Speaker 2 Let's talk closer to the mic

1:10:43 Speaker 1 ... from, from Tovshni at Gimel, he, you know, the fabrangens, the, you know, his kids all went on shlichas, you know. Eventually, you know, Milahia started with, with some work, but eventually, you know, went into Ez Asachim, which was a devotion to shlichas in Russia. There was a chinuch over there of, uh, Mizanech Sidem Forem. There's no, there's no, there's no, there's no question about it. Um, the pride of his, uh, of Emel and, and Basheva, you know, Detroit, and then Miami was, of course, uh, this was, uh, this is the pride of the, of the family. You know, the, the, the shlichas, my father, what he did as Ashpa, which was what the Rebbe wanted him to do. And eventually, you know, he went into the, uh, shlichas in Ez Asachim. So all these, all these, all these things was very ingrained by us from a very young age, and it was a geshmak-

1:11:35 Speaker 2 Right

1:11:35 Speaker 1 ... to be, to be a Sidem and to be part of this. And, and to us it was, like, the l- luckiest thing to be part of. I felt from a very young age just so... Maybe father gave me a little bit of that, that, that pride and that, that, that, that, uh, you know, venifleno, asheno matif kol keino. And that, you know, it's a real, it's a real gift that we have to, to have such clarity and to have a, to have a Rebbe and to be okay with that.

1:12:01 Speaker 2 Your father felt that way? Your father was, had that kind of feeling of, um, uh, like a closeness also? Because, uh, I, I remember hearing, like, stories of your father being very, um, he, he had to, he wrestled with a lot of, uh, uh, a feeling of inadequacy. Or have you heard these stories?

1:12:19 Speaker 1 As a bachar, maybe-

1:12:20 Speaker 2 As a bachar, like-

1:12:21 Speaker 1 ... as a bachar, he would write to the Rebbe-

1:12:22 Speaker 2 Like the, like he-- I heard once a story. You tell me if you heard it from him or if I got it wrong. That he, like, he, he, he came to the Rebbe, like, sfeikas, like, if he means it, and he's not even sure if he means-- If, if he's, he's not sure if he's, if, if he means this question, if he means it or not. And, like, the, the Rebbe, like, told him, like, "Move past these, these, these doubts."

1:12:43 Speaker 1 I don't remember. I mean, just today everything is printed, you know, all these letters that he has. I don't remember that, that area. But definitely questioning himself and doubting and efshin, yish, efshin, efchafard, tanmer was always a Kabbalah sale-

1:12:56 Speaker 2 Right

1:12:57 Speaker 1 ... bitldike approach that he had that was, that was, that was shining in him, of course. And to me, I was proud of it. My father was a bitldike Rebbe, this is-

1:13:06 Speaker 2 But we're doing-

1:13:06 Speaker 1 ... this is who I am

1:13:07 Speaker 2 ... but I'm saying, did he have that-- You're talking about a very positive feeling.

1:13:12 Speaker 1 Right.

1:13:13 Speaker 2 He's talk-- Y-you do you feel that he had that same kind of, uh, sense of, like, uh, kiruv and, or is more like aim of a pachad and...?

1:13:25 Speaker 1 Yeah, a good question. And I don't know how to answer that 'cause I wasn't deep into his avoda. But what he conveyed to us was that every, you know, uh, you know, restriction that we have is because we want our avoda to be pure. And if at the table he didn't like my mother asking me if something tasted good because ma'as mamad avdin dema ebishn was a real thing to him, and he really wanted to convey that to me and to all the kids, that, uh, we're here for one reason only, and it's, it's, it's, it's avoda. Everything is, our whole life is avoda. And, and, and n-not that he's not happy with that. It was very-- He's appreciating every second that he's, has that avoda, but that was it. Life is avoda, sirving the Ebishn. Giving your guf something, being into it and being excited about it is a, is, is, is a, is a shame. You know, why, why have that, you know? And any moment I have, he would take me, if tza'yim, every moment he had, he was going yud ki vav, and he'd run into a lot of people. We had mekar- we had people coming to our house that always needed kiruv. The stories that I was always around was he was worried when somebody needed his help. He would stop everything he needed to, you know, to give the money he doesn't have. And the, the feeling the need of doing something in avoda, whether it's mekarav another

1:14:45 Speaker 1 Yid, mekarav a bachar, or being more, or being more avod Hashem in his own way. But I think that ultimately that brought him to the greatest, you know, uh, you know, I'm not gonna say fulfillment because he was bitldik, but the greatest, you know, confidence that this is what's needed and this is what's negeia. So it wasn't a, a, it was a freilechch chassid, he fabrangen. He loved going to the Rebbe because he was fabrangen. When Rebbe was in the town, I would go with him all the time, and he would sit there and would listen till the end. He would listen to Rabbi Pliskin, he would listen to people fabrengen that were-

1:15:19 Speaker 2 He had a good time. He had a-- he enjoyed doing that.

1:15:21 Speaker 1 He loved, he loved-

1:15:22 Speaker 2 Yeah

1:15:22 Speaker 1 ... fabrengens. He loved the fabrengen. And he, when he argued with, you know, people that came to his house asking questions-

1:15:27 Speaker 2 See, he wasn't a, he wasn't a sad-

1:15:29 Speaker 1 No

1:15:29 Speaker 2 ... tzamrachin Jew.

1:15:30 Speaker 1 Not at all. Not at all.

1:15:32 Speaker 2 Yeah.

1:15:32 Speaker 1 Not at all. So sameach bacholke in, in every way.

1:15:36 Speaker 2 Right.

1:15:37 Speaker 1 Every way. Nah. The even Hashem, but he was s- but he was sameach bacholke when he has his ach davka nisht, because davka nisht. And every time I told him to buy a new hat, to buy something, he's, "Ach davka nisht." You know, like, he didn't re- he didn't, he didn't like the, the attention to it. And he, he really lived his life of being a yirei Hashem. So again, y-y-it's confidence, it's, it's simcha by fabreng. He sit by fabreng, he sit by Shabbos table. He l- He, he's shiny at a Shabbos table. We all sat there, we never left. There was always kedusha when he spoken. There's no talking gossip was going on in Kara- at our table, ever. It's a sicha. It's Chabad, a ma'aseh from Rebbe. There's only a conversation about positivity. You know, you're in like an oasis of, of, of yirei Hashem. And we looked at him with awe, and he loved, he loved it for sure. And we all looked at him in awe and respected it, and, and we're felt lucky that we're part of such a, such an environment.

1:16:32 Speaker 2 How do you translate that? I mean, I maybe I put you on the spot to this question. How do you translate that into a world of, of shlichus where saf k'saf, you're forced to, you know, you li- you build a beautiful Chabad house. You're, you're-- The, the, the, the, the definition of the job is that you have to worry about gashmius a lot more. I mean, y-you can't get away with, uh, you can't get away with, with the pure ruchnius. I mean, I don't think you can. How, how do you f- In your mind, how do you translate your father's, uh, tzugang, you know, in the way you raise your own children or-

1:17:09 Speaker 1 Beautiful question. And it's interesting that I think after his passing, and I was talking about shlichim-

1:17:15 Speaker 2 Of course

1:17:15 Speaker 1 ... that sometimes I think that I internalize and I realize more sometimes after his passing, even though he came here sometimes every year. You remember? I don't know if when you were here shul as he was here.

1:17:30 Speaker 2 No, I don't think so.

1:17:30 Speaker 1 But he was-

1:17:31 Speaker 2 But I was, I remember from old times

1:17:32 Speaker 1 ... he was here many times. I'm saying he came to our Chabad house many times.

1:17:34 Speaker 2 I don't, I don't think I remember him here.

1:17:35 Speaker 1 And he's-- So he used, he used to come for a Bris or he used to come for a shul sometimes.

1:17:40 Speaker 2 Maybe, yeah.

1:17:40 Speaker 1 He's here at least, you know, ten times or seven times.

1:17:43 Speaker 2 So he come to visit you.

1:17:44 Speaker 1 Come to visit, stay here, and he push it, enjoyed it. Sit tov bechaliv kummen. Dokumen, sit this time, mention Tanyaling, tfilin latayden. He loved coming here. So much nachas from our Chabad house. Every report I used to give him, the whole makarov people. He loved, he loved seeing this. He loved seeing this grow. But he didn't relate to the build-- He wouldn't relate to the building here.

1:18:04 Speaker 2 And what are you doing?

1:18:05 Speaker 1 Like, he wouldn't relate to it. I remember that time I took him for a tour, and Rabbi Josh Gordon was one of his closest moshiachim. So I wanted to be-

1:18:13 Speaker 2 Uh, Josh, Josh Gordon was close with him?

1:18:15 Speaker 1 Yes. He felt that maybe-

1:18:17 Speaker 2 Owes, owes a year

1:18:18 Speaker 1 ... owed a lot to my father. Oh, he said-

1:18:19 Speaker 2 They, they kept up a con-connection?

1:18:20 Speaker 1 He just told me that he owes a lot to him in the hasfalot years before his-