Ep. 61 // "Finding the Treasure" w/ Rabbi Velvel Lipskier

00:00 Speaker 1 Somebody could take that, that the Rebbe was unpleasable no matter what you did, right? He never said thank you. And the Rebbe said clearly, "Mi sheyesh lo ma'areis masayim." And you could take that, the Rebbe was demanding, the Rebbe was, was, was saying, I believe more. I'll, I'll take it a step further. You could look at it like you just got a hundred dollars. And I believe that the Rebbe was saying, "I hope you don't feel like you're doing me a favor, doing God a favor. I hope you feel like you just found a treasure, because if you do, you're gonna want more of it."

00:31 Speaker 2 Welcome to Homesick for Lubavitch, a podcast where we explore Lubavitch identity in the year two thousand and twenty-five. My name is Bentzi Hafetz, and I will be your host. Let's begin. All righty. We are here for a late-night jam with, um, esteemed friend, uh, Velvel Lipsker, resident of North Miami Beach. Currently... Can I say what you do currently? Everybody knows.

01:05 Speaker 1 Construction. Yeah.

01:06 Speaker 2 Construction. Um, I, I even dressed the part for the construction interview.

01:12 Speaker 1 I guess I didn't.

01:13 Speaker 2 But you had to, you had to one-up me with your white shirt. Anyway.

01:16 Speaker 1 Yeah.

01:17 Speaker 2 Anyway. Um, uh-

01:19 Speaker 1 And my green yarmulke, which I never wear.

01:21 Speaker 2 Green, green yarmulke. All right, so you, you asked how we start. Um, let's start, let's start a little bit off the cuff. Um, what's something you learned on Shabbos?

01:31 Speaker 1 What's something I learned on Shabbos? Um, I learned a, from Likutei Torah, yeah, Likutei HaMishkan. I'm trying to remember. I only learnt a very, very small piece.

01:44 Speaker 2 Oh.

01:44 Speaker 1 I learnt, um... Oh my gosh.

01:46 Speaker 2 There we go.

01:46 Speaker 1 Afternoon. Yeah, in the afternoon, I learned a ma'amar from the Friediker Rebbe, from Beis Nissan Tav Rish Sadek, which the, the-

01:55 Speaker 2 Are you talking ani yishane?

01:57 Speaker 1 Yeah. Ani yishane u'lebiel. Thank you. And then there's a biur on al. The next one, I don't remember, the . And, uh, it was very, very heavy ma'amar, the Friediker Rebbe's ma'amar. The ma'amar itself is in Yiddish. Uh, Kontreysem Alof. I think Sefer Ma'amarim Tav Rish Sadek was not printed yet.

02:13 Speaker 2 No.

02:14 Speaker 1 I looked. And, um-

02:17 Speaker 2 Where was the Friediker Rebbe then? In Lithuania?

02:19 Speaker 1 Tav Rish Sadek. Beis Nissan probably would've been in Riga, yeah. I think so.

02:25 Speaker 2 That's Lat- Latvia.

02:26 Speaker 1 Yeah.

02:27 Speaker 2 Yeah. No, 'cause it says in the Kontreysem, like each section Ma'amar is in a different place.

02:30 Speaker 1 Yeah. Where it was. I didn't look. I didn't look. I'm just trying to-

02:33 Speaker 2 Yeah

02:33 Speaker 1 ... go off the top of my head.

02:34 Speaker 2 Yeah.

02:35 Speaker 1 Um-

02:36 Speaker 2 No, 'cause I, I'm asking 'cause... Anyways, go ahead. Say what you were.

02:40 Speaker 1 Yeah. So, um, it... What caught me right away is lomed berabim be yom beis nissan. Like the Friediker Rebbe gave it out. Like, "I want you to learn this for-

02:53 Speaker 2 The yard site

02:54 Speaker 1 ... for the yard site." That, I don't know, just struck me, like, um, very... I was talking to somebody on Thursday night about, uh, about the Friediker Rebbe's ma'amarim, and he mentioned to me, a friend of mine said there's a certain... I'm, I'm gonna express myself very dumb over here. I'm sorry. Um, like there's a certain, um... He used the word warmth. There's a certain kedoof. I, I heard a story which I, I just wanna give that a, uh, preface. Two stories. I, I wanna give a hagdamah klalis. I'm discovering more and more that my memory is very inaccurate. I used to rely on my memory a lot, and I see that I remember things sh- sh'lo hayva lavo. So I'm gonna say something, and somebody's gonna shoot my head off and say it never happened that way. Then you're right. If I misremember, I misremember.

03:44 Speaker 2 Yeah.

03:44 Speaker 1 So anything I say is not fact at all.

03:47 Speaker 2 Yeah.

03:48 Speaker 1 But I heard a story once that the Friediker Rebbe was once crying bekol.

03:54 Speaker 2 Right.

03:54 Speaker 1 And somebody came in, and the, the family was there, the Alter Rebbetsin and the Friediker Rebbe's daughters, and he said, "Look what happened." And she said, "Don't, don't, don't worry. This is, this is, this is normal." And conversely, the, the Friediker Rebbe used to laugh. He used to laugh bekol also. But the Rebbe, he didn't see that at all. I, I, I believe I once heard on a tape the Rebbe laughing. I was shocked, like laughing bekol, and crying bekol also almost never. Almost never. You have a drop in Basse Gan Yisroel-

04:23 Speaker 2 Right

04:23 Speaker 1 ... the, the drop. Uh, but there, there was the famous, um, zun di gezuch, man di gezuch. I don't remember . But, uh, but again, in Russia. But crying bekol was almost never. But by the Friediker Rebbe, you see in the letters, he did , he did the oys, et cetera. So there's a certain kedoof. And it came across in the ma'amar also, like he's, uh, . And it's, it... This is what I want you to learn. This is what I want you to, to, to take in. And the ma'amar was a very important ma'amar. It was very, very simple. It was in Yiddish, so it was, uh, ani yishane u'lebiel, and ta'avodo or just . And, uh, I, I mentioned to you when we spoke, what does the Friediker Rebbe talk about? Basic stuff. Uh, being careful about basic things, being careful about staka. And then there's the biur, which was much more familiar territory, should we say. He talks about Sur LaVavi, and the Eibush that is, uh, is the . Then there's a whole which a classic with, um, that where, like, uh, that one person Cholums, and he talked about ani yishane u'lebiel, what it means to be asleep and not aw- not aware, but the neshama is always awake. So I was talking to a friend of mine about the ma'amar, and he asked me a question. He ki- he has a... He came... He learnt... He comes from a Lubavitch family, learnt in Lubavitch yeshivas, and something came up,

05:51 Speaker 1 which was very fascinating, and I was thinking about it before we spoke. So- We were talking about Tanya, and he asked me like, "What is Tanya like?" And I told him, "Actually, I have no idea." I have no idea what Tanya is. No idea what Hasidism is because you know the expression a fish has no idea what water is?

06:12 Speaker 2 Right.

06:13 Speaker 1 So as much as I have quite a few friends in other kreizen, you know, Hasidisha, Litvishe, and I like to read other things, but it's very hard to look at it without... Not what, how, what is classic Yiddishkeit, uh, without Hasidus or Hasidus Chabad, see?

06:33 Speaker 2 Right.

06:33 Speaker 1 I, I have no idea. I could read about it. I could hear about it. I could talk to people. I could try to ask them, and I like to ask like, "What, what is it like for you? What is-"

06:42 Speaker 2 Yeah, the Frider got a saying on this, that a Molde used to say, "A yid, a Hasid," and now they say, "A Hasid, a yid." Like at some point-

06:49 Speaker 1 Yeah

06:49 Speaker 2 ... it's like at this, the, the, like the framing flips.

06:53 Speaker 1 Yeah. I think it's easier for me to understand what it means to be a yid, I guess, than what it is to be a Hasid in the sense that I guess there's more non- non-Jews around.

07:02 Speaker 2 Let's just move it so that-

07:03 Speaker 1 Yeah

07:03 Speaker 2 ... the camera doesn't see all this.

07:04 Speaker 1 Oh, okay. Sorry.

07:05 Speaker 2 No problem.

07:06 Speaker 1 So-

07:08 Speaker 2 Just put it in your pocket

07:08 Speaker 1 ... you know, I guess you could see.

07:09 Speaker 2 Put it in your pocket.

07:10 Speaker 1 But, but, uh-

07:11 Speaker 2 But people can see the phone.

07:12 Speaker 1 What's it-

07:12 Speaker 2 Put it in your pocket.

07:12 Speaker 1 Huh?

07:13 Speaker 2 Put it in your pocket.

07:13 Speaker 1 Okay.

07:13 Speaker 2 No, the problem because you have the table.

07:15 Speaker 1 All right. It's still there.

07:18 Speaker 2 I don't know.

07:19 Speaker 1 So it's very hard to say. It's very, it's very hard to say . But anyway, yeah. So that's-

07:27 Speaker 2 It's fair to say what-

07:27 Speaker 1 ... within Shabbos. What, what exactly, what, what Hasidism brings to the table? Because I don't know anything else. I don't know any other relationship with the . I don't know any other relationship with mitzvahs. I don't know any other relationship with obviously, Hasidism.

07:41 Speaker 2 Why is it important to know that?

07:43 Speaker 1 I'm just, I was just contemplating. It's not important to know.

07:45 Speaker 2 Uh-huh. No, no. I'm saying-

07:46 Speaker 1 I was just-

07:47 Speaker 2 ... what, what, what-

07:48 Speaker 1 Oh, what prompted that?

07:49 Speaker 2 No, 'cause let, let's tease it out a little bit more. Let's say you don't know... Let's say you're a not Labavitcher.

07:55 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

07:55 Speaker 2 You're just a regular Jew, let's say, or-

07:57 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

07:57 Speaker 2 ... I know Jew's regular, everybody has their own particular thing.

07:59 Speaker 1 Own davka.

08:01 Speaker 2 But let's say we can generalize you're a yid. You don't know what it means to not be a yid. So maybe let's, you know, there's always that question-

08:07 Speaker 1 Well, no, it's easier. In other words, if somebody wants to... I mean, this is hypothetical. If someone wants to leave Yiddishkeit, they can leave Yiddishkeit.

08:15 Speaker 2 Right.

08:16 Speaker 1 Okay.

08:16 Speaker 2 Okay.

08:17 Speaker 1 And, uh, drop tefillin, mitzvahs, and, uh, join the secular world. It may take him a couple year-years till he gets used to it, but that's it. But if somebody theoretically would want to be a frum yid and strip away Hasidus Chabad specifically, what would that look like exactly? Okay, I guess you could stop learning Hasidism, change your... Put, start putting that tefillin backwards, you know? But-

08:36 Speaker 2 I mean, you would lose, you would lose them. You're saying, you're saying 'cause it's an idea?

08:40 Speaker 1 I-

08:40 Speaker 2 Yiddishkeit's also an idea

08:41 Speaker 1 ... R- Yeah. True. True. But it's, it's, it's not, it's not just an idea, it's an approach that I believe. I don't know. I mean, this is really a level, so.

08:51 Speaker 2 Okay.

08:52 Speaker 1 It's not ...

08:53 Speaker 2 No, 'cause I, no, I-

08:54 Speaker 1 It was just contemplating.

08:56 Speaker 2 No, 'cause I, I think it speaks to-

08:58 Speaker 1 Well, ideas are ideas, I mean-

08:59 Speaker 2 No, no, no. 'Cause I think it speaks to, to a lot of people are looking for, um, a sense of ownership. That this is my choice-

09:09 Speaker 1 Right

09:09 Speaker 2 ... or this is my, this is my Yiddishkeit, this is my Hasidus, this is my-

09:14 Speaker 1 So Hasidus is easier-

09:15 Speaker 2 So-

09:15 Speaker 1 ... Hasidus is easier to understand because

09:20 Speaker 2 Or being a Hasid. That's what you're talking about.

09:22 Speaker 1 I'm talking about being a Hasid.

09:24 Speaker 2 Right. So people want-

09:25 Speaker 1 Being a Hasidus

09:25 Speaker 2 ... people want that to be theirs, and the question is, can it be yours without mamish dropping everything and starting from scratch? There is an allure of the, of the Ba'al Shem or the Tzemach Kohen that he chose it, and he knows why he chose it, and he knows that there's a before and after point. Whereas we are all kind of stu-- like you said, we're like fish in water, and so we don't know where the edge of it is, and it's like, uh, oh, you chose it really? You don't know anything else. Of course you chose it.

09:55 Speaker 1 I'm, I'm, I'm going a little further.

09:56 Speaker 2 But that's the-

09:57 Speaker 1 I'm going a little further.

09:57 Speaker 2 That's why I think it... Okay.

09:58 Speaker 1 I'm going a little further. I'm going a little further. Let's say, for example, the relationship with tefillin mitzvahs or what is a yid like without tefillin mitzvahs? What... So we're very clear. We were raised a very specific way, that a yid is . A yid is a neshamah.

10:13 Speaker 2 Right.

10:13 Speaker 1 That's number one. And number two, the gives neshamah's tefillin mitzvahs. Or the way you would explain it to a, a somebody who does not share tefillin mitzvahs, you explain to them that the tefillin mitzvahs is there to enhance the relationship that's already there. Um, there are people who they think of a yid that's not sharing tefillin mitzvahs as a goy.

10:32 Speaker 2 Okay.

10:32 Speaker 1 And they, they'll use that word.

10:33 Speaker 2 Right.

10:34 Speaker 1 Um, what does that even mean? So what is a yid to you? Like, I don't know. So that would never change. Like, even if I start davening this Chaskana's and put my tefillin backwards, that would never change. I can't leave that idea. Would there... I don't know of any other way to look at a yid, what I'm gonna go say, "No, okay. A yid is only tefillin mitzvahs, and that's it." Like we're gonna adopt another ideology. I don't even-

10:54 Speaker 2 Why, why not?

10:56 Speaker 1 I think you can't unsee something that you've seen.

10:59 Speaker 2 Ah, okay. Okay. So-

11:01 Speaker 1 Or, or the relationship to the or the relationship to Hasidus. So-

11:06 Speaker 2 I mean, what, what, what it sounds like you're saying is that on some level, on some level-

11:12 Speaker 1 It wouldn't make any sense to me. In other words-

11:15 Speaker 2 It wouldn't make sense to not be a frum yid?

11:18 Speaker 1 Well, you could drop everything and...

11:21 Speaker 2 Right. So the, the way you're framing it, it's correct me if I'm wrong, is that being a, being a frum yid or being a yid in general is a lot more like what-

11:30 Speaker 1 Concrete

11:30 Speaker 2 ... Hasidus called makiv.

11:32 Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no.

11:32 Speaker 2 Like... No, but makiv in the sense of like-

11:34 Speaker 1 No, no, no, no

11:35 Speaker 2 ...

11:36 Speaker 1 It's much more concrete.

11:38 Speaker 2 Like practical.

11:39 Speaker 1 It's-

11:40 Speaker 2 Yes or no, binary.

11:41 Speaker 1 Yeah.

11:41 Speaker 2 In or out.

11:42 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, I guess so. I guess so.

11:43 Speaker 2 In or out.

11:44 Speaker 1 Yeah.

11:45 Speaker 2 Whereas, whereas Hasidus Chabad in your mind is ideas-

11:51 Speaker 1 It's not just ideas. Ideas is like philosophies. It's like philosophies you either buy into or you don't buy into. That's not... I wanna say, "Okay, maybe there's 11 sfiros." You know?

11:59 Speaker 2 So what do you mean?

11:59 Speaker 1 I don't buy into the 10 sfiros, you know?

12:01 Speaker 2 So what do you mean?

12:03 Speaker 1 I mean that- I'm not sure when I cannot imagine life without it, and that's not to say that there is no life without it.

12:15 Speaker 2 I see what you're saying. Look, I'll tell you something, um-

12:18 Speaker 1 In other words, if you talk to somebody who came from outside the house, say, I, you know, before I came to Hasidism, I thought-

12:23 Speaker 2 There's no before and after

12:23 Speaker 1 ... and I hear the stories-

12:24 Speaker 2 There's no before and after.

12:25 Speaker 1 Yeah.

12:25 Speaker 2 There's no before and after. And look, it's-- I think it's probably similar to some people will be like, there's a certain thrill of a person who comes from nothing and makes a fortune-

12:35 Speaker 1 Right

12:35 Speaker 2 ... compared to the child who's born into riches and doesn't understand what they have and doesn't understand what, you know, what, what, what the-

12:43 Speaker 1 Started with small and really nice.

12:44 Speaker 2 Right. And, no, they're, they're, they're losing the-

12:46 Speaker 1 And-

12:46 Speaker 2 They, they'll, they'll never, ever taste that sense of accomplishment 'cause there isn't the before. And even by the way, even if they take-

12:53 Speaker 1 Even if they became very wealthy

12:54 Speaker 2 ... even if they build on it, there's that, that inflection point of there was a time when I... There was a no, and now there's a yes, that binary is not there.

13:01 Speaker 1 Right.

13:02 Speaker 2 Look, it's interesting the, the way you're talking. I don't, I don't know if it's the same in the clutter, but I think it's similar. I, uh, um, Eli Day Reuben, who we were speaking about earlier, was on the podcast, a good friend of mine. So he recommended to me to buy a book that just came out by Chaim Grade. I don't know if you saw that, Sons and Daughters?

13:19 Speaker 1 No. No.

13:21 Speaker 2 So it's a, it's, it's an... It was a novel that he was writing in serial, meaning he was publishing-

13:26 Speaker 1 Yeah

13:26 Speaker 2 ... in the newsletter, in the newspapers. I don't think he ever finished it. I didn't get to the end, but from what I understand, the book was never really finished. I don't know, fifty, seventy pages in or something. There's a very interesting stickle there, which I think you'll appreciate when I get to this.

13:39 Speaker 1 Yeah.

13:39 Speaker 2 The, the book revolves at least the beginning of this rav in some town, I forget the name of the town, some, some shtetl, who basically is, is, is, is constant perpetual suffering. He-- his eldest son has moved to Switzerland and lives with God knows who and, and has a child with God knows who. Um, his next son is living in some more sophisticated town, Bialystok, and is a... Where, where this whole family is... And there's this very poignant scene where this rav goes to a, a, another rav in another shtetl and is trying to figure out, how did you manage to, to raise your kids frum? That they all... That you have no money, you have nothing to offer them but gashmius, and yet they're all ready to live this life of sacrifice and, and Yiddishkeit. And he's thinking, you know, and, and the rav gives him one answer and another answer, and it doesn't satisfy him. Doesn't satisfy him. Finally, the rav, that other rav makes a throwaway comment that, "You know, my wife and I, both of us, our parents were, were workers. We, we come from a working class Yiddishkeit, and I became a rav, and she married me." And, and he said, "Okay, that's what it is. That's what it is." And there's this very, very powerful line, and it, like, it, it hit me. He's like, "Maybe my family is operating under too much weight of history. There's too much generations of Torah. Can't... It's too heavy. Can't hold it

15:01 Speaker 2 anymore. My kids just-- they're, they're running away." Whereas this guy is, it's, it's all fresh. It's, it's, it's pioneering. It's, it's, it's fresh. It's, it's light. It's not light that it's-

15:11 Speaker 1 Okay. That's a very, um, it's a very pessimistic view.

15:16 Speaker 2 No, no, but I, I think it's, I think it's relevant in the sense that it, it, it's-

15:18 Speaker 1 Yeah, no, it's relevant in the sense that it's, it's a lot as a finish because it's a... No, I wasn't talking about Hasidism being stale. I wanna be very clear about that.

15:25 Speaker 2 No, no, I don't mean it that way. I meant that, like, there is a challenge of... And I'm not saying that this guy's point or Chaim Grade's-- Chaim Grade in general, general is quite cynical towards it, right?

15:36 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

15:36 Speaker 2 But it, it's more there is a challenge that comes with, with like at some point that, that, that, that kind of ecstatic chachma moment of Yesh meAyin of Hasidism, that change of, from going from nothing to something, that, that moment, it's eight generations back. And like, uh, uh, is it really mine, or am I just going along with it?

15:57 Speaker 1 No, I don't-

15:58 Speaker 2 Is that what you mean?

15:59 Speaker 1 No. No. No. No. No. That's not what I mean. That's not what I mean. It's not what I mean.

16:03 Speaker 2 You were saying earlier that this ma'amar was, was, uh, talking about Parshat Zachor.

16:12 Speaker 1 Well, it wasn't the Parshat Zachor. It was Parshat Zachor too. There was two parts to the ma'amar.

16:16 Speaker 2 Okay.

16:16 Speaker 1 There was two parts to the ma'amar. There's the first part's on Rishon, and the, and the... I can't remember the second Devarim. It's escaping me for some reason. It's . Um, the first part was more... It was in Yiddish. It was very, very , very practical. The second part was more, you know, Hasidism, more the Rav style, my mother.

16:38 Speaker 2 So not ?

16:40 Speaker 1 No. No. No, it was not . No, I don't believe it is. Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. No, I don't think it's . Yeah. So it-

16:51 Speaker 2 It's very interesting that Hasidism, a lot of it is, um, like especially in Kontresim. I mean, really Kontresim has different sides to it.

17:01 Speaker 1 Right.

17:02 Speaker 2 But there are a lot of Kontresim where, yeah, it's like you're lear-learning a ma'amar, and suddenly he's talking about and, and like-

17:10 Speaker 1 Yeah

17:10 Speaker 2 ... so-

17:11 Speaker 1 Oh, there was a long over there, by the way, about the-

17:13 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. Who's, who's-

17:14 Speaker 1 ...

17:14 Speaker 2 Who's he talking to? Is he talking to Lubavitchers? Is he talking to Seat teens? Like, who's... Like, what, who's the crowd?

17:20 Speaker 1 Right.

17:20 Speaker 2 You know, and there's, there's... It's interesting there's a ma'amar-

17:24 Speaker 1 Well, uh, historically, it was very challenging at that time.

17:26 Speaker 2 Yeah.

17:28 Speaker 1 et cetera.

17:28 Speaker 2 Yeah. So there was a- Yeah. There was a, there was a... So there's a very interesting thing there where there's a ma'amar, Naso Malei Yeskur.

17:35 Speaker 1 Right.

17:37 Speaker 2 And there's a very interesting... I'm forgetting it now 'cause like, like you as well, I trust my memory less and less, but there was a Yoman that Chaya Fagin wrote around the time of that trip. It was als- it was in Lithuania, and you, you can see the crowd he was talking to. Uh, the, the whole few days that he was there was he was, he was up against a very, a very environment crowd personally, but also a crowd that was in a state of flux, like Yiddishkeit-wise.

18:10 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

18:11 Speaker 2 Like modern and, you know, and like there was a certain And it, it just, it, it's just f- There, there, there's, there, there's, there, there's something about, you know, these that they, they, they start f- they could start at very high ideas. It's a at the end of the day.

18:33 Speaker 1 Yeah.

18:34 Speaker 2 And, and what's it about? It's about-

18:38 Speaker 1 Yeah. And interesting, there's a thought that I had a lot of times over the years, is that in some ways, I'm not comparing, but in some ways there's a strong parallel today.

18:48 Speaker 2 Right.

18:49 Speaker 1 We, we have a generation of, of Lubavitchers who are very, very , very... Have a strong sense of connection, almost like when the came to America.

19:00 Speaker 2 Right.

19:01 Speaker 1 It was from Um, and that didn't come up in the home with the, that you had with in defense of Gaza.

19:09 Speaker 2 Right.

19:10 Speaker 1 Like people c- where that term comes from, it comes from the . It's not the, some- something that people made up. People come from and people have a strong-

19:17 Speaker 2 Sorry. That was in defense of Gaza, not Geza.

19:20 Speaker 1 And-

19:20 Speaker 2 It's two, two different things.

19:23 Speaker 1 Yeah, I get it. I get it. But, but people come from are very proud of it, very strongly proud of it.

19:29 Speaker 2 Right.

19:30 Speaker 1 And identify with it. And the approach then wasn't to crack down and, and you took Beth Freden Dean, et cetera, for example, which, um, some classes had their two or three Lubavitchers in the whole class.

19:43 Speaker 2 I literally interviewed a guy today.

19:44 Speaker 1 Yeah, I saw.

19:46 Speaker 2 Crazy story. Crazy story.

19:47 Speaker 1 I, I used to meet all the time when I lived in, in Taluk or in Borough Park or the... Yeah, I went to Beth Fred, I went to And, and warmed them up to the point that they made a, raised a whole generation from nothing.

20:00 Speaker 2 But not Lubavitchers. They-

20:01 Speaker 1 No. Well, well-

20:03 Speaker 2 Some of them, yeah

20:03 Speaker 1 ... both, both, both.

20:05 Speaker 2 But this guy, for example, was a-

20:07 Speaker 1 Yeah, this guy was from Mid. But take, take, uh, kids like, um... I'm gonna just take an example, the Hechts, which are really like a, uh-

20:15 Speaker 2 But that's before Beth Freden Dean, right?

20:17 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before Beth Freden Dean. Uh, that's just like a caricature, so-

20:20 Speaker 2 Right

20:20 Speaker 1 ... I'm using that as a stereotype. But just took kids and, and inspired them and picked them up and turned them into something-

20:25 Speaker 2 Right

20:26 Speaker 1 ... without, without any rules at all or cracking down. I'll tell you a story, uh, without names. But, uh, we're sitting once, Vaada, and, and there was people that are involved in the Chinuch, and there was discussion on the internet. So this is, this is, um, going back at least 15 years ago, maybe more. And there was somebody who shared a story about the radio. That he, he came not from Lubavitch, he came from Satmar. So I hope, I hope I'm not giving away too much identifying information. And, um, take that out. Okay. I'm just gonna go back. He came from, uh, the Kraizen. And he's so, so he, he was not raised in Lubavitch, he was raised in another, another, uh, Kraiz. And over there, there's a strong campaign against the radio. And he says one day that... And the kids came home, and one at a, one at a time, they all threw out their radios. And well, we lived without it. The radio was a very, very big-

21:19 Speaker 2 Deal

21:19 Speaker 1 ... big deal.

21:19 Speaker 2 Yeah.

21:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. When he came to Lubavitch, he said that his mother was like, "You know Lubavitch never have radios." They're just Throw out the radio.

21:26 Speaker 2 Right.

21:26 Speaker 1 All right, shine. And he said, and and I didn't, I didn't think of it at the time, but shortly afterwards I was thinking about, hey, your Melamed, your, uh, Mashpiim, whatever, the people who are being you, thought the radio was a terrible thing. So they inspired you to get rid of your radios. They didn't legislate. They didn't say, "Okay, no radios." They said, they you. They told you how terrible radio is and you have to throw it out, and each one of you went home and threw out your radios. that's not the point. The point is that they inspired you to do something. They didn't make rules against the radio. So I'm not going into the internet in the, over the last 15 years, we thought, you know, th- th- things... It's not the specifics of that. I mean, that's what happened to be the discussion about at the time. And there's many differences between the radio and, and the internet, et cetera. There's .

22:18 Speaker 2 Right.

22:19 Speaker 1 Or, or televisions and these things. There were, there were inspiration campaigns that went on. And I think in that way, in the 1940s or 1930s even, when you saw Jacobson was here in the '20s-

22:29 Speaker 2 That's right

22:30 Speaker 1 ... that he was able to take a generation that was inspired. They were-

22:33 Speaker 2 Yeah

22:33 Speaker 1 ... uh, Literally, People were awake and inspired, and work with that. And there's a lot to work with 'cause people are very... Pe- pe- people feel very, very connected, and there's a lot to work with.

22:43 Speaker 2 Spring is here, which means that in two months, many communities will be looking for a way to mark , the Rebbe's Yahrtzeit. If you're looking for an event that is memorable, meaningful, and affordable, let me recommend This World is a Garden, a film and live concert production created by us here at Uvla Media, inspired by Basse Le Gani, the first maimer the Rebbe said. If you're a regular here at HFL, you know that Basse Le Gani is something that we think about and talk about a lot, and in this production, we use the power of cinematic filmmaking and a live concert by a string quartet to bring the beauty of Basse Le Gani to your community and your audience in a way that they've never seen, heard, or experienced it before. The production has already been hosted by Chabad houses around the country and has drawn wonderful reviews. Our package comes with everything that you need to put on the production, the films, original arrangements for string quartet, publicity materials, everything besides the string quartet, which we recommend that you hire locally to save on travel costs. To find out more about this production, please visit thisworldisagarden.com. Again, thisworldisagarden.com. And now, back to the show. But, you know, it's-- that goes back to that point in a way of, of that, that, that, that, that, that paradox almost or, or, or that problem that Chaim Grad was pointing to. What do I mean by that? At that time, you are in such a state of

24:13 Speaker 2 like there's, there's only upside, right? Yisroel Jacobson in America, like what does he have to lose? Like th- there is no, there is no like Lubavitch institution with like if we, if we're lax, God forbid, the kids are gonna slip. There is no institution.

24:31 Speaker 1 That's true.

24:32 Speaker 2 There are no kids. There's like, there's just a handful of kids. We only have upside. I mean, of course, there's always a bit of downside, but the upside is so much bigger than the downside because you're like, "We, we can't stay this way. We're too small. We're too weak. Our numbers are tiny. We have to..." Right? And the Rebbe took that even to a much further thing, where it's not s- just to build up our community, it's to change the world. But it's like the, the story that still rings... Like one of the most powerful anecdotes from all my interviews in this podcast was the one that Rabbi New shared with his zeide, Klugant, in, in Australia.

25:04 Speaker 1 Yeah.

25:05 Speaker 2 Right? And he didn't-- he wasn't even bringing it... He wasn't even mentioning to bring up a point, but there was something powerful about here's this Hasid from Russia, from the old world. He sees his grandkids growing up from but not minhag Lubavitch, not Kimhi Chabad Israel and so on. He keeps his mouth shut. Like, there's something about like he, like, I'm not in a position now, and I, I'm reading into it of course here, but I'm not in a position now to come, you know, mamai lamata and insist. I have to-

25:31 Speaker 1 Okay

25:31 Speaker 2 ... it's a, it's a thing of kiruv like, "I have to." Like, we're lucky to be alive. We're lucky to have Yidishkeit grandkids. Uh, you know, I'm not here to... There's no g-

25:40 Speaker 1 Okay

25:40 Speaker 2 ... there's no... You see what I'm saying?

25:41 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

25:41 Speaker 2 And now, now we're in this place where there's the weight of like, what if, God forbid, when we make the wrong choice, and the kids that are supposedly doing well, they slip? God for... So everyone is so much s-

25:54 Speaker 1 There's also, there's also, you know, there's the law of prisbah.

25:55 Speaker 2 People are cautious.

25:56 Speaker 1 There's the law of prisbah.

25:58 Speaker 2 Right.

25:58 Speaker 1 Um, the law of prisbah says that, that it became impractical. So, uh, I'll say Hashem, Dennis Prager makes a point that humans are very, very kind to each other in small groups and very cruel to each other in large groups.

26:11 Speaker 2 Yeah.

26:11 Speaker 1 And basically, you don't go to war with somebody you know.

26:14 Speaker 2 Right.

26:15 Speaker 1 And when the Torah says not to take, not to take a ribis, it means kipschuta. Don't take ribis like you wouldn't take ribis from your brother.

26:23 Speaker 2 Right.

26:23 Speaker 1 Um, and-

26:25 Speaker 2 No, it uses that word.

26:26 Speaker 1 Yeah.

26:26 Speaker 2 L'chach l'saach, yeah.

26:28 Speaker 1 Yeah. And like, I mean, like, literally, when a person wouldn't take a... It, it's normal if the... Imagine if one brother charged interest to another. I don't care what it was for, for, for, for a deal. That's for a deal. And his father comes from Sugah, their brother, they were treating him like that. And that was... It was reasonable, acceptable, and it worked, and it works. And today, if a close friend of mine asked me for a loan or asked a close friend of mine, of course, it would go without saying. But once the group becomes large, the rules of the game change-

26:55 Speaker 2 Yeah

26:56 Speaker 1 ... and they cannot work.

26:57 Speaker 2 Yeah.

26:57 Speaker 1 The small rules can't work.

26:58 Speaker 2 It doesn't scale.

26:59 Speaker 1 It doesn't scale. And, uh, so it tells us that, that was between Lubavitch that the prisbah actually benefited, uh, prisbah, heter iska, all these things, they benefit the labor. They don't even benefit, benefit the ma'amer.

27:09 Speaker 2 Right. The economy, the economy came to a standstill. People couldn't-

27:12 Speaker 1 Yeah

27:12 Speaker 2 ... couldn't get money.

27:12 Speaker 1 Yeah.

27:13 Speaker 2 Couldn't get loans.

27:14 Speaker 1 So there is a certain... Th-things don't scale. They, they just don't scale. And what works in small groups doesn't work necessarily in large groups. So that's true.

27:23 Speaker 2 Oh, so you, so you're approaching it from, from, from, from another, another, another problem. Maybe they're related. They're related. You're, you're, you're talk... There's something about... I agree with that a hundred percent, is that when you're, when you're smaller, there's, there's, there's space for organic connections and, and yeah. A-and as it gets bigger, things become a lot more corporatized and, and systemized just to, just to, just to allow it to function. There's just way more regulation just to allow this behemoth-

27:53 Speaker 1 It can't work

27:53 Speaker 2 ... to keep on moving. And it's like, you know, another Hashem memory, like Barack Obama's big chachmah was that, like, changing the US government is like turning around a battleship in a bathtub.

28:04 Speaker 1 Yeah.

28:04 Speaker 2 Like you, you, you can't. You can maybe move it an inch.

28:07 Speaker 1 Right.

28:07 Speaker 2 Like that's a big vort to the president to say, "Move the ship an inch," and eventually it'll make a difference.

28:13 Speaker 1 Yeah.

28:13 Speaker 2 And there is a bit of that. I, I think it's connected, of course. It's a problem of scale. I'm talking a little bit more-

28:19 Speaker 1 And I, I wasn't talking about scale

28:20 Speaker 2 ... the problem of fear. I'm talking about the problem of fear.

28:22 Speaker 1 But I, I wasn't talking about either. I was... Well, the problem of fear, I was talking about the, the upside.

28:26 Speaker 2 Yeah.

28:27 Speaker 1 The positive side is that if you were able to take a generation then-

28:30 Speaker 2 No, and I agree

28:31 Speaker 1 ... the mindlessness of that generation exists today because-

28:34 Speaker 2 But you need to have courage is my point. You need to have courage.

28:37 Speaker 1 I think-

28:37 Speaker 2 You need to have courage, and it's much... In a way, it's easier. It's se-

28:39 Speaker 1 That's not courage.

28:40 Speaker 2 No?

28:41 Speaker 1 No. You need to re, just reach out to people.

28:43 Speaker 2 Yeah, but you, you... My point is-

28:45 Speaker 1 I'm not talking about so much... First of all, I'm not talking about so much Bachrim. I'm talking about Bachamim to your light.

28:49 Speaker 2 Yeah. But even so, if, if you, if, if you accept, if you accept or you, or you give a geshpankte to, you know, chassidis being learned, let's say, just a stupid example, you learn chassidis in shorts. You know, you have, you, you, you have an event that in c- that has guys in Florida, people are wearing shorts, and they come together, and they're, they're, they're-

29:09 Speaker 1 People don't wear... I, I, I gotta stand up for my community. I don't see people coming-

29:12 Speaker 2 Not, not North Miami Beach. I'm saying so... Okay. Whatever.

29:15 Speaker 1 Okay.

29:15 Speaker 2 It's hot outside. They go to the beach. They have Hallel on Rosh Chodesh-

29:18 Speaker 1 Right

29:18 Speaker 2 ... and then learn chassidis at the beach. I'm, I'm, I, I, I'm-

29:20 Speaker 1 Okay. It's the story that Rab Marash with

29:22 Speaker 2 ... you know. Oh, what's the story?

29:24 Speaker 1 That, uh-

29:25 Speaker 2 I don't know the story

29:25 Speaker 1 ... that Rav Lemke Jambiner, he had a, he had a, he had a shich chassidis.

29:31 Speaker 2 Who was this?

29:31 Speaker 1 Rav Lemke Jambiner was the, what's the, um,

29:35 Speaker 2 Okay.

29:36 Speaker 1 So he was a chassid of Rab Marash. So he had a shich chassidis, look at that, a Thursday night, and he described Rab Marash. He said that, the, the Baal Habatim come, and they said, "We serve med." Med is, uh, like a-

29:49 Speaker 2 The Russian drink. Okay.

29:49 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's a Russian, like a honey beer, something like that.

29:51 Speaker 2 Right.

29:52 Speaker 1 Served hot. And he said, "It's ten lament," and send Rab Marash said that could hit him with med.

29:58 Speaker 2 Oh, so the Marash was not, was not, was not-

30:00 Speaker 1 That's not the story.

30:00 Speaker 2 Okay. Oh, I thought the story was over. Okay.

30:02 Speaker 1 No. So he stopped. Okay. Take it right. And the, in the main colleague, Mohammed Zizwal, it's a long, uh,

30:07 Speaker 2 All right. I remember that.

30:11 Speaker 1 Not very, not very complimentary. Anyway, the kid said the next time, so Rav Lemke went back, and he said, "That's it, guys. It's not, uh, not appropriate." So said he stopped the med, and the next time he came to Lubavitch, Rab Marash, uh, Rab Marash asked him, "How's the shiur going?" He said, "Listen, uh, you know, people don't come for the med, but, uh,"

30:29 Speaker 2 It helps.

30:30 Speaker 1 But it helps.

30:31 Speaker 2 They stay for the med.

30:32 Speaker 1 They stay for the med.

30:32 Speaker 2 Okay.

30:33 Speaker 1 Yeah. Anyway, the kid said the, the, the attendance dropped off.

30:36 Speaker 2 Right.

30:37 Speaker 1 So then Rab Marash told him, "Put it, put it back."

30:39 Speaker 2 Ah, interesting.

30:40 Speaker 1 Okay.

30:40 Speaker 2 That's very interesting. But that's-

30:42 Speaker 1 So-

30:42 Speaker 2 But that's a, but that's a very interesting story because, because the-

30:45 Speaker 1 Okay. So swap out the med for, uh, for a

30:48 Speaker 2 That's my point

30:49 Speaker 1 ... for Coca-Cola.

30:49 Speaker 2 That's my point.

30:50 Speaker 1 You know, I don't think that, I, I've been saying this for a long time, that herring and pickles is not any more chassidis than pizza and, uh-

30:56 Speaker 2 No, it's not. It's just, it's just more nostalgic and romantic.

31:00 Speaker 1 'Cause that's what they eat there

31:01 Speaker 2 Right, right. And, and it's what we don't eat now, so we don't associate it with our own time.

31:04 Speaker 1 But they did eat it then.

31:05 Speaker 2 Of course.

31:06 Speaker 1 It w- it was, uh-

31:07 Speaker 2 Of course. They enjoyed-

31:08 Speaker 1 I have to tell you a story

31:08 Speaker 2 ... and, and, and they enjoyed it then the same way you enjoy a slice of pizza.

31:11 Speaker 1 I have to tell you the story that I heard it from somebody that experienced it firsthand.

31:14 Speaker 2 Yeah, but also... but herring's also better for mashke than pizza, let's be honest.

31:18 Speaker 1 No, it's not.

31:18 Speaker 2 Not so true?

31:19 Speaker 1 I, I wouldn't know.

31:21 Speaker 2 All right. Well, it's pashut, it's fatty and it's oil.

31:24 Speaker 1 So when I drink mashke, I drink enough that herring wouldn't make a difference.

31:28 Speaker 2 All right.

31:28 Speaker 1 And, uh-

31:29 Speaker 2 But now

31:29 Speaker 1 ... at this point, yeah. Um, so I was in Russia. The, um... this was in the late '90s. The last time I went was 2004. They were doing the public Sdeah, and they had like, uh, a hundred-

31:40 Speaker 2 You went as a bachur.

31:41 Speaker 1 Yeah. They had like 100 bachurim going-

31:42 Speaker 2 I remember

31:43 Speaker 1 ... 500 bachurim going.

31:43 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

31:44 Speaker 1 Remember those days? So-

31:46 Speaker 2 I w- I was at the tail end, though, but I, I had my own, uh, exotic destinations to go home to

31:51 Speaker 1 It's just that it's, it's mamash nice, uh, this time of year. But, uh, the, the video Embers came out from, from the Rebbe.

31:57 Speaker 2 I, I remember.

31:58 Speaker 1 And this was the last time when planes still had the big screens at the time.

32:02 Speaker 2 Ah, yeah, yeah, I remember them.

32:03 Speaker 1 And we, and we asked-

32:04 Speaker 2 Now, now we're feeling old over here

32:05 Speaker 1 ... yeah. And we asked them to play Embers on the, on the, on the video, on the public thing. They did.

32:12 Speaker 2 It was on, it was on, uh, Aeroflot?

32:13 Speaker 1 Delta Airlines, whatever it was. No, it wasn't Aeroflot. I think it was Delta. I was like in and they played it. It was, it was very, very nice.

32:20 Speaker 2 Gibush.

32:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, gibush. Yeah. Davening, uh, davening and things. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But kids are... So I'm trying to remember where I saw it. It wasn't in Moscow, but I was walking one night and I see two guys standing on the lamppost. Older guys having... I wish I could give you the tsayur, and like, like this, you know.

32:45 Speaker 2 Two Russian guys.

32:46 Speaker 1 Two Russian guys looked lahav like two bachurim on Kings Highway at 3:00 AM on a Thursday night in Middle Terrace.

32:52 Speaker 2 Right, right.

32:54 Speaker 1 It looked exactly the same.

32:55 Speaker 2 Right.

32:56 Speaker 1 I don't think they were discussing, you know, if Stalin was good or bad or whatever it was.

32:59 Speaker 2 Yeah.

32:59 Speaker 1 They were older guys. They were drunks. They were, they were alcoholics. But I got like a reality check about what's going on over here, that these mannerisms or whatever, they're just Russian. They're not Chassidish.

33:10 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah. Hello.

33:13 Speaker 1 It's, it's... There's nothing wrong. No, it's, it's nice. Hashem is Zach. You know, I'm Russian through and through.

33:17 Speaker 2 Where do you think the drink, the mashke comes from?

33:18 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

33:20 Speaker 2 By the way, I, I-

33:22 Speaker 1 And, and I, and I love Russia, and I love Russianism-

33:24 Speaker 2 Yeah

33:24 Speaker 1 ... et cetera, you know. But it, it-

33:26 Speaker 2 Oh, for sure. I, I-

33:27 Speaker 1 All 16 grandparent, great-grandparents are all from there.

33:29 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

33:30 Speaker 1 But it's okay.

33:32 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, um... I mean, it's a lot of things like that. I mean, even-

33:38 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

33:38 Speaker 2 ... even for example, the minhag to not dress up the sukkah.

33:41 Speaker 1 Yeah.

33:42 Speaker 2 Like the o- from what I understand, there is another, uh, group of Chassidim, I forget the name, that also doesn't dress up the sukkah.

33:48 Speaker 1 Oh, the Russian Chassidim?

33:49 Speaker 2 Yeah, they're also. And it's like, it's how the Shabbos Yis that it's freaking cold on sukkahs, right? And it's like, there are a lot of things that are just-

33:58 Speaker 1 Well, it was pretty cold in Poland too.

33:59 Speaker 2 Oh, it was colder in Russia.

34:01 Speaker 1 Yes.

34:01 Speaker 2 Come on. And, and, and... Okay, so that's a little bit more cynical, but, but, but-

34:05 Speaker 1 No, it, it, it's cynical, but also mechirah. The whole, the whole whole feel of it. I was actually talking to someone about this yesterday.

34:08 Speaker 2 No, but the drinking mashke and the whole thing like untern tish.

34:11 Speaker 1 Yeah.

34:12 Speaker 2 That's what the poors are doing.

34:13 Speaker 1 That's exactly.

34:13 Speaker 2 And, and, and, and there's a reason why people in Russia were always drinking. It was freezing.

34:17 Speaker 1 Yeah.

34:17 Speaker 2 Life was miserable. Life was depressing. You had... By the way, the czars that were running Russia, they weren't just anti-Semites. They were demented meshugganim.

34:26 Speaker 1 Yeah. There's, by the way, there's a tape from the Rebbe where he talks about the last tsar, Tsar Nikolai, and he says, he says over there-

34:33 Speaker 2 I think he was one of the least meshorer ones, by the way.

34:35 Speaker 1 Yeah, probably.

34:36 Speaker 2 They, they were crazy.

34:37 Speaker 1 So he says,

34:40 Speaker 2 They were meshugganim. The family, a bunch of degenerates.

34:47 Speaker 1 Oh, they were gen- inbred, inbred degenerates.

34:49 Speaker 2 Inbred degenerates killing each other all day. Every-

34:52 Speaker 1 Yeah

34:52 Speaker 2 ... they... No, I was r- I was reading a biography of it, of the, of the whole Romanov family. Pashut, a band meshugganim. Look, some of them accomplished massive things, but like as people, they're pashut nuts, and you're living under their thumb. And one of the things the guy writes, which is also go back to Lubavitch mannerism, this historian writes, is that there was this culture developed in Russia where you are... you ex- you display servility like, uh, avdos-

35:18 Speaker 1 Yeah

35:18 Speaker 2 ... and like to the person on top of you, and complete tyranny to the person underneath you. And it's like, hello. What does that sound so familiar, right? Right? It's like... Like, yeah, exactly. Like maybe that's how we've sadly Yeah ... people are the loudest. Like the... say the, the most extreme things and-

37:01 Speaker 1 And-

37:01 Speaker 2 'Cause they're the most unbendable.

37:02 Speaker 1 Yeah. So, so you get this point of, of „Brechem un shtechen" and, and harshness-

37:10 Speaker 2 Right

37:10 Speaker 1 ... and unsatisfied. Uh, I'm gonna give you two examples 'cause they really, they, they talk to me. So farbrengen about this often, and today it's a different world. We used to have the cassettes of the Rebbe's ta- of the Rebbe's farbrengens.

37:28 Speaker 2 I remember.

37:29 Speaker 1 So Bochum had, like, these, uh, collections.

37:31 Speaker 2 Yeah.

37:31 Speaker 1 So you had Ma'aser Avos, obviously, stories, but then you had, like, the secret collections.

37:34 Speaker 2 Yeah.

37:34 Speaker 1 Collection of when the Rebbe spoke about, uh, you know, the different machliks that were going on-

37:38 Speaker 2 Right

37:38 Speaker 1 ... with other, other groups, et cetera.

37:40 Speaker 2 Right.

37:40 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe expressed himself very harshly sometimes.

37:43 Speaker 2 Right.

37:43 Speaker 1 And there were, there was some really... Some heavy stuff.

37:47 Speaker 2 Right.

37:47 Speaker 1 And people had collections of those. And one day it occurred to me, there's over six thousand hours of recorded farbrengens.

37:55 Speaker 2 Right.

37:56 Speaker 1 And if you take all the times the Rebbe spoke harshly together, put them all together, I doubt it reaches more than six hours altogether. I mean, just six times sixty. Uh-

38:05 Speaker 2 Six times a... No, six times a hund- six times, uh-

38:08 Speaker 1 Sixty. It's a few minutes. A few minutes here, a few minutes there.

38:11 Speaker 2 Oh, s- oh, you're saying in minutes? Yeah.

38:13 Speaker 1 Yeah.

38:13 Speaker 2 It's three six hundred minutes.

38:14 Speaker 1 Thir-- I, I don't think there's three six-

38:15 Speaker 2 No, no.

38:16 Speaker 1 No.

38:16 Speaker 2 No, it's three hund- three hundred and sixty minutes.

38:17 Speaker 1 I don't know if there's three hundred and sixty minutes where farbrengens that the Rebbe spoke harshly.

38:20 Speaker 2 Yeah.

38:21 Speaker 1 And for some reason, out of all the six thousand hours, that's your, like, secret collection. And when the Rebbe said things like, "Hashanah Rabah tavshil um baz, ez yehe zid kamal ufun Adler," very famous thing. Oh, then the Rebbe was just talking, you know. Then he was just, uh, then he didn't really mean it. That, that he didn't-

38:36 Speaker 2 What are you referring to?

38:37 Speaker 1 Hashanah Rabah tavshil um baz.

38:38 Speaker 2 What happened?

38:38 Speaker 1 A very, very long sicha. The Rebbe spoke a, a sicha every night of Sukkot.

38:41 Speaker 2 Right.

38:42 Speaker 1 So Hashanah Rabah, I believe it's almost two hours.

38:44 Speaker 2 Right.

38:44 Speaker 1 Th- this is in the mugediker sicha.

38:46 Speaker 2 Right. What did he say?

38:47 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe was speaking about the Tzemach Tzedek, the Benai Tzemach Tzedek.

38:50 Speaker 2 Right.

38:50 Speaker 1 And that the Friediker Rebbe said to write when he was preparing... I mean, I might, I'm, I could be, I'm conflating two things here, but I know that the Rebbe said that he should write, uh, "Krik bezos, krik bezose," and then even a rabin on each one of the Tzemach Tzedek.

39:01 Speaker 2 So even couple, even... Yeah.

39:03 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's actually even later. Uh, somebody once showed me about, uh, asked me recently about Retzah and, uh, Retzah. Sheesh.

39:11 Speaker 2 Yeah.

39:11 Speaker 1 And, uh, and the Rebbe said then, one of the erutz that the Rebbe took out was that the other yid came out, uh, uh, honor from Hashem Admer. This is in the mugediker sicha.

39:21 Speaker 2 Right.

39:22 Speaker 1 And for some reason, when the Rebbe says something like that, it's like, "Eh," you know.

39:26 Speaker 2 How do you understand it?

39:27 Speaker 1 How do I understand it? I'll talk about in a minute how I understand it.

39:30 Speaker 2 Okay.

39:31 Speaker 1 But I'll give you, uh... So, so as I... And the Rebbe spoke like that many times, that style. "Yehe zid halbach uvela."

39:37 Speaker 2 I see.

39:37 Speaker 1 Like any minor.

39:38 Speaker 2 I see what-

39:38 Speaker 1 That's what it, that's what I mean specifically.

39:40 Speaker 2 I see the point you're making.

39:40 Speaker 1 When the Rebbe's talking about... When the Rebbe is saying as he sees it, what's really going on, that he doesn't mean. And the one time that he said something, uh, "Sharfer vart," oh, now he's, uh, now he says... And all the excuses to the ...</uh, I don't know what kind of BS that is. You know, so the example I always give is you have Ashley.

39:58 Speaker 2 Right.

39:59 Speaker 1 And Ashley is, uh, is an olive base.

40:01 Speaker 2 Right.

40:01 Speaker 1 Each pasek is divided by two.

40:03 Speaker 2 Right. Right.

40:07 Speaker 1 So there's twenty-two pesukim over there. Well, twenty-one 'cause, uh, there's no none.

40:11 Speaker 2 Right.

40:11 Speaker 1 And each pasek is divided in two. There's forty-two phrases over there.

40:15 Speaker 2 Right.

40:15 Speaker 1 Out of forty-two phrases over there is is the only negative phrase in the whole Ash- Ashley.

40:22 Speaker 2 Right.

40:22 Speaker 1 And for some reason, that's all you're gonna notice.

40:26 Speaker 2 Right.

40:26 Speaker 1 And the other forty-one,

40:33 Speaker 2 Well, that, well, it's like they say in democracy, hate, hate of the opponent is what wins you elections.

40:38 Speaker 1 Is what wins you elections, yeah.

40:39 Speaker 2 Because hate is a stronger motivator than love.

40:42 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

40:43 Speaker 2 And, and there's something of... I think Chassidus also talks about this now that you're talking about it. There's something about miyus is, is more powerful than-

40:50 Speaker 1 Yeah

40:51 Speaker 2 ... Is a more powerful-

40:52 Speaker 1 It's a more... Yeah, miyo. They say in advertising that people seek to, uh, avoid pain.

40:56 Speaker 2 Right.

40:57 Speaker 1 Whenever you advertise something, solve, um-

40:59 Speaker 2 Find the pain point and then-

41:00 Speaker 1 Find it, find that it's solving a problem.

41:02 Speaker 2 Right. Find the point, find the pain, the pain, the pain spot and, and show that, yeah.

41:06 Speaker 1 So, so, but the truth is that it's not, it's not true.

41:11 Speaker 2 Right.

41:11 Speaker 1 You know, I, I always make a joke, the five percent rule. And if you could do math, five percent is not a rule by definition.

41:17 Speaker 2 Yeah.

41:17 Speaker 1 It's an exception.

41:18 Speaker 2 I, I, I think it's also, it's also a problem of imagination. There's a famous line by, by Tolstoy, I think, going back to our Russian, our Russian, our Russian ancestors or half the, half of those I understand, um, uh, that, you know, he, he begins one of his famous novels that all happy families are the same. It's the unhappy families that have stories to tell. Right? And there's something about, there's something about where, like, negativity ultimately or automatically has a shape, whereas, uh, like as a Hashem Yashmid, you can picture it.

41:49 Speaker 1 Yeah.

41:49 Speaker 2 The burning in hell, you know, the fire.

41:51 Speaker 1 Yeah.

41:53 Speaker 2 It's, it, it needs a lot more refined imagination to, like, have that mean anything. And the same thing in general in life, right? Like the negative, it's, it's very immediate-

42:01 Speaker 1 It's spicy

42:02 Speaker 2 ... and very visceral, whereas, like, the positive is like, "Ah, you know, whatever."

42:06 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

42:07 Speaker 2 And you need imagination.

42:08 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

42:09 Speaker 2 So, but, uh, but I see the point that you're making. The point that you're making is, in general, that, that, that we, we, we, we, we, we-

42:19 Speaker 1 Gravitate

42:20 Speaker 2 ... we gravitate, we gravitate to, in a way, the, like, the, the, the, the very small part of what Chassidus is talking about, which is here and there, a psasher fer vart, and the Rebbe's saying... Uh, and you'll find in the Friediker Chassidus also a, a psasher where Misbonu-

42:37 Speaker 1 And people will go so far as to say that that's what the Rebbe really meant.

42:41 Speaker 2 Right.

42:41 Speaker 1 They'll say that clearly.

42:42 Speaker 2 Right.

42:42 Speaker 1 They'll say, "Well, all the nice things the Rebbe talked about, that was all for the camera."

42:45 Speaker 2 Yeah.

42:45 Speaker 1 "Have a jam." But now, „B'tzrichus der gerer Rebbe un dem Rebbe Leybun." Now, there's, I ves dem l'fregen, you know, the fact is that the Rebbe did speak harshly to Bochum, and they told the... They always said, you know, "Akiru fun a Rebbe, ez a yid chuck." That's a good question. Ez a ere a gute kashe. Right? A Chabad can tell it. So that's what I'll say. I would rather say I don't understand the half a „Pasuk Hashem Yashmid" and the other forty-one- Uh, uh, so can make sense than say, "No, this one I understand, another forty-one don't make sense."

43:08 Speaker 2 Well, I also think, I also think people are, are conflating two things here.

43:12 Speaker 1 Yeah.

43:12 Speaker 2 You know, the... When the Rebbe's talking chasidus, he's talking about what he, what he believes and what he sees the potential in people. And-

43:18 Speaker 1 I don't think it's just potential

43:19 Speaker 2 ... No, no, but not potential in some abstract way. Like what he believes they're, they're capable of, yes?

43:25 Speaker 1 Yeah.

43:25 Speaker 2 And, and, and so in that sense, it's overwhelmingly positive. You could argue that, you could accept that and also argue that when Bochurim are coming by dollars, that, you know, i- if, if the Rebbe smiles the whole time at Bochurim, like, i- he's making it... He's... What, what he's saying, since isn't that you're, you're good and it's easy and it's over. What he's saying is, "I believe in you, but I- I'm gonna demand from you too."

43:49 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

43:50 Speaker 2 Saying it's not a student.

43:51 Speaker 1 It's not a... No, the truth is it's not a student.

43:53 Speaker 2 Right.

43:53 Speaker 1 That, that... Of course not.

43:54 Speaker 2 Right.

43:55 Speaker 1 Of course not.

43:55 Speaker 2 No, 'cause you were bringing it up that could be a student.

43:56 Speaker 1 No, I was saying that they have to unlearn the whole... And start listening to different, going to different to unlearn everything.

44:03 Speaker 2 Right.

44:03 Speaker 1 To unlearn and realize how much... When chasidus is nothing of the sort. Chasidus talks about the Yichud of the Neshamah-

44:09 Speaker 2 Right

44:09 Speaker 1 ... of what a person is. And yes, it doesn't just come with it. It's a . It's much more than that.

44:15 Speaker 2 Right.

44:15 Speaker 1 It's in the reality.

44:16 Speaker 2 Yeah. There was a, you know, there was a time, there was a time a few years after I got married and I started going into making videos or films, whatever, and there was a, there was a pr- project that I took on and I didn't know what I was doing. So I, I spent a lot of money on it that today I... Like I laugh at how much money I spent on it. And but, you know, in terms of like how the world does things, it wasn't outrageous. And in my mind, it was like, okay, 'cause I came from this like Chabad house mindset. I had... It was this cool project. It was an inspirational video. There was a great story there. Let me go reach out to some of these Baal Batim that I know, and some of, some of them had actually told me when I was younger, "When you have... Find this project, come to me and I'll support you." And I was like, "Okay, they'll, they'll, they'll give me the money to pay for it. I'm not asking them to, to make me rich off it, but to pa-" And I remember that feeling when they told me, "No, like we're not, we're not doing it. We, we love you, but we're not doing it."

45:11 Speaker 1 Right.

45:11 Speaker 2 And at the time it was very disappointing. It was also like... It was crushing because I had always in my mind assumed that that's-

45:19 Speaker 1 Yeah

45:19 Speaker 2 ... the guy told me he would help me out.

45:22 Speaker 1 Right.

45:22 Speaker 2 Like he, you know, he was, he was close family friend. And in hindsight, I know it was the biggest blessing because it forced me, maybe not in that moment, but over time to like, okay, how do I figure this out for myself? And what that did was, is it, like, it, like, it unlocks certain things in you and it's like, no, I, I don't need to, like, I don't need to just rely on someone else. I can figure it out, and that forces me to get better at what I'm doing and forces me to-

45:52 Speaker 1 And you're gonna do well. You, you are gonna do well.

45:54 Speaker 2 Right.

45:54 Speaker 1 You're not, uh-

45:55 Speaker 2 Right. No, but it's, it, it, it's, it's also like you, you become a, a, a, a- ... a stronger person, right? You become a stronger person, and you grow, and it's hard to grow. It's hard to grow. And, and yeah, and, and that is, that is, that is the... Look, that, that is a challenge of any parent with a child essentially, right?

46:17 Speaker 1 Yeah.

46:17 Speaker 2 Like-

46:17 Speaker 1 Of course. Of course

46:18 Speaker 2 ... how do you, how do you, how do you raise your child into an adult without being, you know, without being too harsh, but also without suffocating them with love and helicoptering?

46:29 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. But, but over here, over here, there's an added element, and that is that there was a lot of talk clearly of, like, talk about Russian . It's... In, in other words, it didn't come out of nowhere.

46:42 Speaker 2 No.

46:42 Speaker 1 There, there was very, very overt talk like that by certain and certain other people who... Bochurim today, it's not so popular anymore.

46:50 Speaker 2 I'm not trying to gaslight you. Don't-

46:52 Speaker 1 No, no, no, no, no. No, I understand it. No, I'm saying there was a lot of unlearning to do. That's what I mean, specifically.

46:56 Speaker 2 All, all, all I'm pushing back at, if I'm pushing back at all-

46:58 Speaker 1 No, I don't think you are. Doesn't sound like you're pushing back

46:59 Speaker 2 ... is that, yeah, is, is, is that, is that-

47:01 Speaker 1 Sounds like you're agreeing.

47:01 Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm agreeing. It's just that... 'Cause sometimes what happens is, is people go to the other extreme. They're like, "If this is all positive, then this whole narrative of the Rebbe being-

47:11 Speaker 1 No, it's true

47:11 Speaker 2 ... stern and discipli- discipline- disciplinary-

47:14 Speaker 1 Yeah

47:14 Speaker 2 ... doesn't fit." And it's like, no, it's not a student.

47:16 Speaker 1 It's not a student.

47:16 Speaker 2 It's not a student. Like, like, you know, the, the, the, the, the Rebbe's telling... The Rebbe's saying in a what he believes is true about you, but... And that could be the most positive and empowering message in the world. But if he... If you're in his space, you're, you're looking at him eye to eye, and he c- and he, like, gives in-

47:38 Speaker 1 I'll, I'll go a step further. I'll go a step further. Um, I'll go a step further. This is just like a philosophy that I have. You have in davening. We say,

47:48 Speaker 2 Right.

47:52 Speaker 1 Like first together. And a person can look like the average needs his ego stroke before you ask him for anything like that.

47:58 Speaker 2 Right.

47:58 Speaker 1 How does that work? Uh, I don't wanna talk at this-

48:00 Speaker 2 Well, so, so chasidus talks about this.

48:02 Speaker 1 That, uh... Yeah.

48:03 Speaker 2 Zamaritun.

48:04 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I wanna give a, a different, a different twist to it.

48:07 Speaker 2 You're going for it. Okay.

48:08 Speaker 1 Yeah. And it... But it's like a 15-year-old doesn't behave like that.

48:11 Speaker 2 Right.

48:11 Speaker 1 I mean, a true 15-year-old. The guy who does that-

48:13 Speaker 2 The Czar, the Czar of Russia behaved that way.

48:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. And there's... That, that's not a joke. He really did.

48:19 Speaker 2 No.

48:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. And today you look at somebody like you need a doctor if you need your, your ego stroked at that level.

48:24 Speaker 2 Right.

48:24 Speaker 1 You know, the CEO is not gonna last.

48:26 Speaker 2 Right.

48:26 Speaker 1 People are gonna rebel. You're ascribing such immaturity to the average guy.

48:29 Speaker 2 Right.

48:30 Speaker 1 Now, what I think is happening is, is something completely, completely different. Uh, I'll give you, I'll give you a mashal which I used for myself. Um, suppose somebody who really, really, really loves you and you know 100% wants only your good gives you a little package. It's not wrapped very nicely, and it... You don't know what's in it, and he gives it to you, and he says, "You're gonna really thank me for this." What do you assume is in there?

48:58 Speaker 2 Not- nothing much.

48:59 Speaker 1 You just... Well, somebody you really like and you really trust, and he told me, he told you-

49:04 Speaker 2 Oh, okay

49:04 Speaker 1 ... "You're gonna thank me."

49:05 Speaker 2 Okay.

49:06 Speaker 1 You assume there's something good in there.

49:07 Speaker 2 Okay.

49:08 Speaker 1 Unless he's con-- playing, playing a cruel practical joke-

49:10 Speaker 2 Okay

49:10 Speaker 1 ... which he's not that kind of person.

49:12 Speaker 2 Okay.

49:13 Speaker 1 You assume there's probably something very good in there, otherwise why would he tell me that?

49:16 Speaker 2 Right.

49:16 Speaker 1 So the way I understand today, the average guy says, "Okay, before we start talking, I want you to understand who I am. I am . I take care of the whole world. I look out for everything. I'm . That's who I am. Now let's talk." So if you believe that about me, and I send you some packages that look a little funny, but if it's on the yeseid that I'm only good, that then you're gonna have a little bit of a different approach. You-

49:46 Speaker 2 Right

49:46 Speaker 1 ... and, and if something doesn't look pretty, you're gonna say, "Well, I wonder what he's trying to teach me here."

49:51 Speaker 2 Right.

49:51 Speaker 1 But unless you say the average guy is, is, is sadistic, and he gives you bad things, and he tells you, "You must thank me." But we assume the average guy is not like that.

50:01 Speaker 2 Right.

50:01 Speaker 1 So if he's telling you harsh things, there's probably some kind of lesson here. There's probably some kind of... And I think the same thing. When the Rebbe's telling you, "Look, I... You are a yechidut shebanafes. I'm yechidut shebanafes." Let's take that as the yeseid, where we're starting. I heard, I heard this, that there's a Kabbalah .

50:20 Speaker 2 All right.

50:21 Speaker 1 That, uh, I, I'm assuming you're familiar with that term? So I heard, I heard from somebody-

50:25 Speaker 2 The rebbe is a, is a good person, a kind-

50:27 Speaker 1 It's not just the rebbe's a-

50:28 Speaker 2 Kind

50:28 Speaker 1 ... it's the rebbe's kind.

50:30 Speaker 2 Right.

50:30 Speaker 1 The rebbe's kind, and that is part of the function of a rebbe, to be kind.

50:32 Speaker 2 Right.

50:33 Speaker 1 Now, I heard this from somebody, that when the rebbe passed away, Beis Nissan, so I mean, anybody with half a brain would assume that the Fridre rebbe is the malamech.

50:43 Speaker 2 Yeah. He was, he was the only rebbe that was so clear.

50:45 Speaker 1 That was so clear. He was a ben Yochid. And the rebbe . And I heard that they were chassidim, that when they saw the tavah, they were actually surprised.

50:53 Speaker 2 Why?

50:53 Speaker 1 I don't know what they were thinking exactly, but they were actually surprised. The reason is because as the , the Fridre rebbe was known to be very, very harsh.

51:00 Speaker 2 Very sharp, yeah.

51:01 Speaker 1 And, and he would throw a bachur left and right, and there was no anachmanus.

51:05 Speaker 2 Right.

51:06 Speaker 1 And because they have a Kabbalah, the rebbe's a guta, they cannot see the Fridre rebbe functioning as rebbe.

51:12 Speaker 2 So what did they think was gonna happen?

51:14 Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't know what they were thinking, but this, I heard the story. I wasn't there. This is going back now 105 years ago.

51:20 Speaker 2 No, I understand. But, but there was such a story-

51:22 Speaker 1 Yeah

51:22 Speaker 2 ... going around then.

51:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. And then we know that the moment the Fridre rebbe changed from being to being rebbe-

51:30 Speaker 2 Changed

51:30 Speaker 1 ... it, it, it overnight.

51:32 Speaker 2 Overnight?

51:32 Speaker 1 Overnight. Became a rachman, became-

51:34 Speaker 2 Man

51:35 Speaker 1 ... I'm not sure before, but that's the way I heard the story. I wasn't there.

51:37 Speaker 2 Wow. Wow.

51:39 Speaker 1 So if we take that that the rebbe's a guta, the rebbe's a rachman, the rebbe's averachman-

51:45 Speaker 2 So we have to change our whole-

51:46 Speaker 1 You see this-

51:46 Speaker 2 We have to change our whole framework

51:47 Speaker 1 ... then, then anything on top of that-

51:49 Speaker 2 Yes

51:49 Speaker 1 ... with that background, it, it completely changes the conversation.

51:51 Speaker 2 Yes. Yes, I agree with that. Homesick for Lubavitch is brought to you by Yuvala Media, a boutique video production company servicing the Chabad and Jewish community. Since opening 10 years ago, Yuvala Media has pushed the boundaries of artistic and thoughtful storytelling in the community, with an insistence on there always being a memorable story as well as a beautiful and striking visual image that we believe is second to none. Over the years, we have worked with Chabad organizations around the country, as well as large organizations like Bonioelo, Torah Mesora, and Atzalathon, guided by the belief that your story is absolutely worth telling with depth and creativity. If you are looking to tell your story with a video, please reach out to us at hello@yuvalamedia.com. Again, that is hello@yuvalamedia.com. A link can be found in the show notes. And now, back to the podcast. This idea that we play this game with each other where you think the rebbe is XYZ, I'll bring you this, this example, , that, that proves that . Like in, like in our conversation, you think the rebbe's a, a guta at this, and I'll show you a example, the famous story of the rebbe demanding from the shluchim and, you know, the shlicha's crying and, and then, and like, and, you know, and then, and Chodikov is bashing him over the head and, like, you, you have... Like, there are klalim, there are, like, axiomatic principles that don't get budged by your anecdotes. Well, like, I don't care. Like, my one

53:22 Speaker 2 is always rebbe was a smart man, so if your anecdote leads to stupidity, I don't accept it. Like, it's not possible. Like, and even if it happened, I'd, I don't accept it. I know that might sound ridiculous, but, like, if you're gonna argue something like it comes to yeshivas, for example, sometimes you'll hear people arguing insane things. The rebbe said this, therefore, we're gonna have a yeshiva that's not function... That's totally dysfunctional. It's like, no, no, there's no way in, in the world that the rebbe wanted a dysfunctional yeshiva. There's no way. You, you could say a lot of things the rebbe wanted the yeshiva to include-

53:54 Speaker 1 It's called the

53:56 Speaker 2 But that the rebbe wanted a dysfunctional yeshiva?

53:57 Speaker 1 No, I'm saying the way the rebbe would get frustrated-

53:59 Speaker 2 Exactly

53:59 Speaker 1 ... he caused stupidity.

54:00 Speaker 2 No, he wanted people... He wanted yeshivas to learn. He wanted bachurim to be living up to the highest potential. He also wanted other things that made things even harder and complicated. He wanted bachurim to be in the yeshiva that the yeshivas felt were pulling down the yeshiva. He wanted a lot of things. But stupidity, it was, he was not for, right? And you can take axiomatically that the rebbe was not... I'll give you even a better one. Uh, stupid is a little bit, uh, it sounds not . But, you know, I'm not gonna argue that I, that I have a, that I personally have a problem with cynicism, but I know for a fact the rebbe was not a cynic.

54:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's something that I heard you say over and over again on the podcast.

54:33 Speaker 2 That was. That-

54:34 Speaker 1 And it is just three lines that I-

54:35 Speaker 2 Yeah

54:36 Speaker 1 ... that I love, that really hooked me. One of them was the rebbe was not a cynic.

54:39 Speaker 2 He was not.

54:39 Speaker 1 You can argue whatever you want, but he was not a cynic.

54:41 Speaker 2 Axiomatically, the rebbe was not a cynic, right? He didn't, he didn't say things to make people feel good. That's not even a cynical thing. But he didn't, he didn't, he didn't, he didn't... Nothing that he said wa- was said with, like, some kind of, uh, you know, like, uh, with cynicism, like, half-baked or, or, like, like, like this kind of, like, fatigue in the, in human potential.

55:04 Speaker 1 Hmm.

55:04 Speaker 2 Always believed in the human potential, desperately believed in it, and, like, fully believed in it, right? So if you're gonna come and tell me some line and attribute it to the rebbe as cynical, I don't care if you have Maramokemus, I'm not accepting it.

55:16 Speaker 1 Not accepting it. And, and there's, there's a context over there.

55:19 Speaker 2 Right. There has to be.

55:20 Speaker 1 So-

55:20 Speaker 2 There has to be, right? And, like, we have to be able to say there are axiomatic parts. So, like, what you're... Going back to your point, like, there, there are, there are, like... The, if the rebbe's a guta, right, the rebbe's a ki- the rebbe's a kind person, right? The, the, the point of chassidus is to, is not to make you feel good about yourself-

55:38 Speaker 1 No, it's, this is a state of reality

55:39 Speaker 2 ... but to, but to bring out... but, but to elevate you and br- but, uh, not in terms of self-help, but to, but to bring out the best of you and, and the most of you and, and to do in a way of kindness, in a way that, that brings out the geshmak inside of you.

55:55 Speaker 1 Yeah.

55:55 Speaker 2 If you accept it as an axiom, everybody else with their stories can go pound sand. Like, it's irrelevant. You have a, you have a maise and I know a person that was there. I don't care. It's irrelevant

56:06 Speaker 1 I, I'll, I'll go further. Something that the rabbi would always say, and this is something that bothered me for a long time. And I s-said once by farbrengen and the guy, guy came back to me, and then later, uh, the story-- there was more to story, but of a thing that the rabbi said all time, "Mish'ish amana reitz m'asa'yim."

56:20 Speaker 2 Right.

56:21 Speaker 1 And the rabbi being told Th-David Chase, a Jew, is never satisfied.

56:23 Speaker 2 Right.

56:23 Speaker 1 The rabbi's used those words then. And you could look at it, there's a midah, it's called being unpleasable.

56:30 Speaker 2 Right.

56:31 Speaker 1 And, uh, it's, uh, very difficult to live with somebody who's unpleasable.

56:33 Speaker 2 Yes.

56:34 Speaker 1 It's, uh, probably part of a personality disorder, something like that.

56:36 Speaker 2 Right.

56:37 Speaker 1 And somebody could take that, that the rabbi was unpleasable no matter what you did.

56:41 Speaker 2 Right.

56:41 Speaker 1 He never said thank you.

56:43 Speaker 2 Right.

56:43 Speaker 1 Al-almost never.

56:44 Speaker 2 Right.

56:44 Speaker 1 Almost never. Very, very rare occasions. And the rabbi said clearly, "Mish'ish amana reitz m'asa'yim." And you could take that, uh, the rabbi's demanding, the rabbi was, was, was saying, I believe more... I'll, I'll take it a step further. "Mish'ish amana reitz m'asa'yim" is a direct quote from the Gemara. I'll translate it in English. Somebody who has a hundred zuz wants two hundred zuz. And the way I understand it, what the, what the rabbi was saying was, you could come and tell me, "I put on tefillin with a hundred people." Okay. And the rabbi's gonna say, "Mish'ish amana reitz m'asa'yim." So you could look at it, you did a big mitzvah, you're getting a big chet like an Ohedin. If you're a Hasid, you don't believe in Ohedin, you believe in Din of Tachtonim, you're even more closer, and you get a check. Or you did a big mitzvah and you did something wonderful, I'm gonna give you an award, you get it, you came to heaven. Or you could look at it like you just got a hundred dollars. And I believe that the rabbi was saying, "I hope you don't feel like you're doing me a favor, doing God a favor. I hope you feel like you just found a treasure, because if you do, you're gonna want more of it."

57:45 Speaker 2 Mm.

57:47 Speaker 1 In other words, it's not just encouraging Vart. The rabbi's saying, "Let, let's get up here. You're coming to tell me, like... My mother, you don't have to come and show me your marks."

57:54 Speaker 2 I see.

57:54 Speaker 1 Like, Mish'ish amana, you just got a hundred dollars.

57:57 Speaker 2 Wow.

57:57 Speaker 1 And appreciate what you have, and you're gonna want more. If you really know what you got, you're gonna want more of it.

58:02 Speaker 2 Right. Right. And so, so even the demand is coming from a place of caring.

58:07 Speaker 1 It-it's coming from a place of caring. It's coming from a place of, of, of a place, a place of lichtigkeit.

58:13 Speaker 2 Right. Lichtigkeit, yeah.

58:14 Speaker 1 A, a place of life is great.

58:16 Speaker 2 Right.

58:16 Speaker 1 You just, you just, you realize you won a hundred bucks.

58:19 Speaker 2 Right.

58:19 Speaker 1 You remember the end of Uncle Pinchi when he gets the winning, the winning lottery ticket? Like, do you realize you just got the winning lottery ticket?

58:24 Speaker 2 Right.

58:24 Speaker 1 Like, wow.

58:25 Speaker 2 Right.

58:26 Speaker 1 I hope you want more.

58:27 Speaker 2 Right. Right. Hmm. Yeah, look, I, I, I think, I think... Look, I, I, there's, there's no other way to say it. I, I think being a rabbi puts, puts a person into a tough spot. It's, it's a tough place to be in, right? There, there are many stories of, of, uh, the, the first years of the Neseus where, where, where the rabbi suddenly finds himself in situations where people that he was close with beforehand-

59:01 Speaker 1 Yeah

59:01 Speaker 2 ... suddenly were, were, were respecting him, and it seems like the rabbi was not happy about that. Like, there was, he, like, he, he dis- he expressed-

59:11 Speaker 1 That was part of Mesirut Nefesh.

59:13 Speaker 2 Right.

59:13 Speaker 1 I mean, we don't have to talk about the rabbi's Mesirut Nefesh, but it was clearly part of Mesirut Nefesh.

59:16 Speaker 2 Yeah, no, it's part... It's a, it's a real thing. Like, uh, I heard the story of Rav Bongart, and Rav Bongart used to shake his hand, and then one day-

59:23 Speaker 1 He was a dwarf

59:23 Speaker 2 ... no, well, so you, you heard the story.

59:26 Speaker 1 Yeah.

59:26 Speaker 2 And, like, someone was giving the hand, and Rav Bongart just slaps it down, and, "You also, you're also buying into this?" And 'cause they were close beforehand.

59:32 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

59:32 Speaker 2 And Rav Bongart, you know, is a person that people liked.

59:34 Speaker 1 Right.

59:35 Speaker 2 And you're also, you're also now like, "Who's gonna be my friend?"

59:39 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

59:39 Speaker 2 We're all... You know, and you understand, not that I'm trying to understand rabbi's psychology, but you understand the necessity that the same way a melech and these kind of-- or even a CEO in a company, lehavdil, right? Where it's just about business, let's say. There has to be separation.

59:55 Speaker 1 Yeah.

59:55 Speaker 2 You, you, you, this idea, this kind of modern idea of like, we're all gonna work without offices, or it's gonna be like open. It's, it's, it's been shown to be more or less a farce.

1:00:06 Speaker 1 Yeah, it doesn't really work, right.

1:00:06 Speaker 2 No, in a way, those people are the biggest tyrants. Like, like, like, "Kilu-"

1:00:11 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:00:11 Speaker 2 "Kilu, I'm like you." No, you're not like me. You, you, you're the boss. You own the company, and, and all the games that you're gonna play to make it feel equal are not... It's a, it's a joke.

1:00:20 Speaker 1 It's, it's-

1:00:21 Speaker 2 It's a farce. There has to be hierarchy, and, and, and so that is for sure that. And like, yeah, and they... A-and, and, and, and in a way, that is what's, what's, what's Hayom Yoma, what the rabbi's, nishtalent, chassidim's are nishtalent.

1:00:36 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

1:00:36 Speaker 2 Like, that-- But that's the Vart that it's saying. It's like accord- like logically, they have to be nishtalent.

1:00:43 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:00:44 Speaker 2 Logically, there has to be such a divide that there's no way of bridging it.

1:00:48 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:00:49 Speaker 2 At once.

1:00:49 Speaker 1 That's the, that, uh, before you start learning is

1:00:55 Speaker 2 Right. Right. There has to... You're not allowed to go to, you're not allowed to go, you're not allowed to go to the mikveh. Like, there's, there are rules.

1:01:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:01:02 Speaker 2 Yeah.

1:01:02 Speaker 1 Yeah. So, so, so, so once, once you take those axioms of what, what a rabbi is, and then take a Mayim Mer and take it, it doesn't-- It's not about the demanding or believing. It's, it's... I think it's much more than that. It's describing, it's describing a new reality, and we're living in that reality, and it's a reality that's also very inclusive. It's a reality that's very inclusive. Um, I was talking to somebody recently about, about different, uh, different and Kabbalah and and the other Talmidamagit, and he asked me if... Rav Nachman talks about this a lot, Para Averes. And he asked me if Chassidis Kabbalah believes in this also. So, you know, one thing that we quote very, very often is which sounds very nice in Yiddish, but if you say it in English, it says that a man who sinned and returns is greater than a man who never sinned. I mean, there, there's no -

1:02:00 Speaker 2 That's what it means. No

1:02:01 Speaker 1 ... you can make it a little shinier and a little nicer, but that's actually what it says.

1:02:03 Speaker 2 How you people make it shinier, the Baalshesi? That's, that's my Nefesh.

1:02:06 Speaker 1 Use holy words like... You look-- Use holy words like Baalsheva and forget what Baalsheva actually means.

1:02:10 Speaker 2 I don't know. Baalsheva halacha someone that avera, avera.

1:02:12 Speaker 1 Somebody who did an avera, which means that, and this is basic, it talks about in a lot of, uh, lot of other Chassidishe Svarim That doing averis is part of the, is part of the journey. That's, that's the way it is.

1:02:24 Speaker 2 You're talking about Rav Nahman mainly?

1:02:25 Speaker 1 Rav Nahman, Rav Tzlagga. Kane talks about it a lot.

1:02:28 Speaker 2 Right.

1:02:28 Speaker 1 Trends a lot. He talks about this.

1:02:31 Speaker 2 Right. I mean, in a way, it's, it's by definition, right?

1:02:34 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:02:36 Speaker 2 Right. So, so what were you gonna say?

1:02:38 Speaker 1 I'm saying that, that the... What Chassidus talks about, what, what Chassidus talks about the whole person, you know, Chassidus, it includes everything, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

1:02:48 Speaker 2 Right.

1:02:48 Speaker 1 It includes-

1:02:49 Speaker 2 So that's what you mean by inclusive?

1:02:51 Speaker 1 Yeah. It includes the person basher o'sham, as you are.

1:02:54 Speaker 2 Right. Uh, but you're pushing back against something. Are, are you, you're just pushing aga- back a certain zeitgeist that you grew up with, a certain-

1:03:02 Speaker 1 Um-

1:03:02 Speaker 2 -mindset?

1:03:03 Speaker 1 I don't know how I grew up with that.

1:03:05 Speaker 2 No, I-

1:03:05 Speaker 1 I can't even say that I know because-

1:03:06 Speaker 2 Say, but what, what, what, what, why do you feel it's so important? You feel that a lot of people your age grew up with this kind of-

1:03:11 Speaker 1 I, I, I don't care what's on people's heads, so I don't know.

1:03:14 Speaker 2 But for you, it was-

1:03:15 Speaker 1 I just know what I believed. Yeah.

1:03:16 Speaker 2 You believed for a long time that Chassidus was, uh, that there was gonna be disappointed with you.

1:03:23 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:03:23 Speaker 2 I do remember that now that it comes up. I remember there was a line that we used to be said in Yeshiva a lot, that when Moshiach will come-

1:03:30 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:03:31 Speaker 2 ... the Rebbe's gonna call you in and is gonna, uh, like, like-

1:03:35 Speaker 1 It depends on all, all the, all the nice things.

1:03:37 Speaker 2 The... Right. I remember... Now I'm remembering that that was always expression. Like, like, you... The Rebbe's gonna walk in and... 'Cause I think the Rebbe made that expression once or something.

1:03:44 Speaker 1 Could be.

1:03:44 Speaker 2 That the, you know, the Rebbe's gonna walk in, if you think about it, the fidika's gonna walk in and full house to like, you know. What are you, what-

1:03:51 Speaker 1 This, this-

1:03:52 Speaker 2 Right. And so that becomes now a whole paradigm of you're living in constant fear and shame about... Right? Look at-

1:04:00 Speaker 1 You know, the Rebbe said, and also Tofshunum Beis, I think it was, uh, Simchas Torah. I was... I, I mean, these are fabrengens that, that were shocking. I, I wanna go back to what I started saying, and I know what Chassidus is. The Rebbe says then, "I'll tell you, Moshiach,

1:06:18 Speaker 2 You were there?

1:06:18 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I thought we're gonna talk about that a little bit.

1:06:20 Speaker 2 How old were you?

1:06:21 Speaker 1 I was born 1980. So Simchas Torah Nun Beis, I was 11 and a half. I was, uh, 11 and a half.

1:06:27 Speaker 2 But you were old enough to like-

1:06:29 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:06:29 Speaker 2 You're sitting in fabrengens listening.

1:06:30 Speaker 1 I was sitting in fabrengens since I'm very, very little.

1:06:32 Speaker 2 Listening.

1:06:33 Speaker 1 Very close. I could. Now, listening is, first of all, by the time I was getting older, the Rebbe's voice didn't carry on Shabbats.

1:06:39 Speaker 2 Right.

1:06:40 Speaker 1 I know. It simply didn't carry.

1:06:41 Speaker 2 Right.

1:06:42 Speaker 1 Secondly, when you don't understand something, it's much harder to hear.

1:06:46 Speaker 2 Sure, sure. 'Cause you're... You have to make up each sound.

1:06:48 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

1:06:48 Speaker 2 You can't... You have no context.

1:06:49 Speaker 1 Yeah, I have no context. The sicha's are very, very high. There's a few vagu- uh, vacher di sichas that I remember very, very clearly. So for example,

1:07:05 Speaker 2 How are you understanding it at the time? Like, did you feel the Rebbe was talking to you? Did you feel the Rebbe was talking into the sky and just you were the person to listen to it?

1:07:13 Speaker 1 Um, okay. That's a very good question. We, we could go there soon. And I'm, I'm, I'm gonna answer. I'm thinking it's really a whole separate topic, and I thought I wanted to talk about that a little bit.

1:07:20 Speaker 2 Okay.

1:07:20 Speaker 1 What was life like for a 12-year-old kid in Tofshunum Beis?

1:07:22 Speaker 2 We got, we got time.

1:07:23 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. But I wanted to talk about or go back to this specifically, and the Rebbe said then all the kids should say l'chaim, which I remember 'cause then the kids started a song. We sang, we sang Am Yisrael. Uh, Simchas Torah fabregen was a very interesting, uh, before, b- before our kafes. Most of the Bachmer on Taluka.

1:07:37 Speaker 2 Right.

1:07:38 Speaker 1 It was a very, very, um, a very beautiful fabregen.

1:07:41 Speaker 2 This is almost like a shtikel rally almost?

1:07:43 Speaker 1 No, not at all. Not at all.

1:07:45 Speaker 2 So what was the-

1:07:47 Speaker 1 It was very small physically. It was very intimate.

1:07:49 Speaker 2 Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

1:07:51 Speaker 1 Um, I don't remember if people before Kiddish or after. I, I simply don't remember. You gotta look at the, the amount then.

1:07:56 Speaker 2 Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

1:07:56 Speaker 1 No, I bet the Rebbe... People said l'chaim, saying also been after Kiddish.

1:07:59 Speaker 2 Right.

1:07:59 Speaker 1 Yeah. So, so the Rebbe spoke about then about, about kids and machane kids. And this I don't remember from the fabregen, but I looked at the Muggdier Sicha afterwards, and the Rebbe said then about

1:08:18 Speaker 2 Uh

1:08:21 Speaker 1 That the Rambam writes that the way you mechanech people who prizes.

1:08:25 Speaker 2 Right.

1:08:25 Speaker 1 And the notion of Katanim is-

1:08:26 Speaker 2 Yeah, he didn't have, he didn't have much trust in kids

1:08:28 Speaker 1 ... it's not just that was the normal way, and that's the way-

1:08:30 Speaker 2 Right

1:08:30 Speaker 1 ... kids were raised for the last, uh, six hundred years

1:08:32 Speaker 2 No, but especially the philosophy way is not, yeah.

1:08:35 Speaker 1 It's not just the philosophy way. That's how-

1:08:36 Speaker 2 All right