Ep. 48 // "From Auschwitz to Lubavitch" w/ Rabbi Nissan Mangel

00:00 Speaker 1 So as the ice broke already, Chassidis, there's something Chassidis, and Rabbi Rabbi Rabbi Ginguas. So when he came home after the shir, and also we went in the kitchen, I made myself a, a, a cup of tea. He made himself a cup of tea, we started to speak. He tell me a story about Bashem Tov, something about the Rebbe. Slowly, slowly, slowly, I became a Lubavitcher Chassid.

00:31 Speaker 2 Welcome to Homesick for Lubavitch, a podcast where we explore Lubavitch identity in the year 2024. My name is Bentzi Offson, and I will be your host. Let's begin. All right. Thank you very much, Rabbi Manguel. I'm sitting here with, I'm sitting here with Rabbi Nissen Manguel.

00:57 Speaker 1 Time is okay.

00:58 Speaker 2 Do you look good?

00:59 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

01:01 Speaker 2 You look fantastic.

01:02 Speaker 1 You're good, yes?

01:03 Speaker 2 They, they see you only from the side, though.

01:04 Speaker 1 All right.

01:05 Speaker 2 I'm sitting here with Rabbi Nissen Manguel, um, in Crown Heights. Thank you very much for making the time and for, uh, accommodating the schedule with the Brooklyn Marathon. It took me a little bit while to get in. Um, you were mentioning to me earlier that you remember me as a little boy in Hong Kong. Back in the day-

01:27 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

01:27 Speaker 2 ... you used to travel around to, uh, speak at different Chabad houses. Uh, you know, of course I remember-

01:33 Speaker 1 Practically all over the world.

01:35 Speaker 2 All over the world.

01:35 Speaker 1 There was no place where it wasn't. Australia, Africa, As- China, e- everywhere.

01:41 Speaker 2 Those days-

01:42 Speaker 1 Yes

01:42 Speaker 2 ... those days that was less common to travel around the world like that, no?

01:47 Speaker 1 Yes.

01:48 Speaker 2 It was less common.

01:48 Speaker 1 Yeah.

01:49 Speaker 2 What, what, what drove you back then to, to travel around and, and, and speak like that? It must have been very difficult, all the traveling.

02:00 Speaker 1 Since all the shluchim wanted a, from time to time, a speaker.

02:06 Speaker 2 Right.

02:07 Speaker 1 Speak on all kinds of topics. And they found, they thought that I, I'll be-- I'm a capable speaker, I could be able to do it, and they asked me, just like your parents asked me to Hong Kong, they asked me five times to Australia, maybe already Europe, all over the... And then I spoke all kinds of topics. Uh, uh, Yiddishkeit, first of all. If somebody leaves Yiddishkeit, how do you bring it back?

02:35 Speaker 2 Yeah.

02:35 Speaker 1 What the most b- the most successful method to bring a 13 back? Um, topics, for example, also the Holocaust, what I went through. Uh, how did I come to Lubavitch? What made me? I don't come, uh, as a, uh, in my childhood, I never heard the word Lubavitch.

02:52 Speaker 2 Really?

02:52 Speaker 1 I never. Although my stock is like from the Chassidis, but more the Stropkov, Vizhnitz, another Stropkov and Diver Chaim, the, the sons.

03:02 Speaker 2 Uh.

03:02 Speaker 1 But Lubavitch, I never heard the word Lubavitch. What made me Lubavitch? It's a very interesting thing. What ca- hashgacha protis or acci- uh, accidental, incident, accidental I came to Lubavitch.

03:13 Speaker 2 Right.

03:13 Speaker 1 Yes. For example.

03:16 Speaker 2 All right. So why don't we, why don't we begin with, with, with the story? I know that you've recounted the story of your survival and how you survived the Holocaust many times, and that isn't the main point of this conversation. But for those who are not familiar with your story, what is the, what is the gist of your story? Of where did you grow up? Um, where did, what did you go through during the war? And how, and how taka did you end up in Lubavitch?

03:45 Speaker 1 Just let me tell you briefly.

03:47 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

03:47 Speaker 1 The child of 10 years old, my parents, my sister and I went Auschwitz. Miraculously, Mengele, anybody wasn't a, a child of a certain height, immediately he-- this thumb determined the fate of six million Jews. He was sitting on a table, chain-smoking, cross-legged like this, and everybody had passed through, and this finger, when they flipped to this, uh, left side, gas chamber. Flip to right side, go to work.

04:27 Speaker 2 Did you know that while you were walking up to the line? Did you know that?

04:31 Speaker 1 We knew already at, at the beg- when we came to Auschwitz, we found that we knew already. I remember my father, the cattle coach, we squeezed like sardines in a cattle coach, over 100 people. By the end when they arrived in Auschwitz, two people were dead. Uh, we knew already what's going on. And I remember eventually I f- finally I fell asleep. What woke me up? My father was saying Viddui.

05:02 Speaker 2 Hmm.

05:02 Speaker 1 My father knew by heart, said Viddui, and he was crying because he know this is the end. This is the end. So we came to Auschwitz. We came off from the, from the, from the cattle coaches, and Mengele wasn't there because a day before, the American Air Force bombed Auschwitz. So he escaped. Eventually he came. So we lined up. When I got five in a row, um, everybody-- They didn't tell us we're going to a death camp. They told us we're going to a, a labor camp.

05:37 Speaker 2 Right.

05:38 Speaker 1 So everybody had valises with all kinds of pillows and quilts and all kind, uh, underwear and shirts. So we had all this, uh, uh, the valises. We lined up for Mengele should come. There was one of the, um, Bes- Besondes commander, special unit of Jewish inmates who had a triple function. One function is take out, take away the valises The second one, those who were sent to the, uh, to the gas chamber, push them into the gas chamber. It's number two.

06:12 Speaker 2 Right.

06:13 Speaker 1 Number three, from the gas chamber, the dead corpse, put them in the crematorium to be burned them.

06:18 Speaker 2 Right.

06:19 Speaker 1 So we, uh, I was standing, I was the first one, holding the hand of my mother in the line, the first in the line, holding the hand of my mother. I think I was-

06:28 Speaker 2 How, how old were you?

06:30 Speaker 1 10 years old.

06:30 Speaker 2 10 years old.

06:31 Speaker 1 Uh, came, and after was my father, and after is my sister, and another two people. The, the, the person from the Sonderkommando came to take away our valises, saw me, a little boy, says to my mother, "Give away the child. Save yourself." Because Mengele not only took the child, but the mother of the child also. Says, "What, uh, what, what do you gain by both will be killed? Give away the child. The elderly person will be killed anyways in the gas chamber, and save yourself." As my moth- uh, as he said this to my mother, and I was holding my mother's hand, I felt how my mother was clutching my hand tightly, like intimating, "Marames, my child, I won't give you away. I won't give you away." And of course, he had to go away because he had to take all the valises. Be five minutes later because hundreds, thousands of people came from, from Slovakia. Came back and he says, "Ma Hashem, give away your child. Why should you commit suicide? Why should..." And Reb Ben Zion, my hand, my-- I felt my mother's hand clutching even stronger.

07:46 Speaker 2 Huh.

07:47 Speaker 1 Then he says the following story to my mother.

07:51 Speaker 2 Th-this, this, uh, kommando.

07:52 Speaker 1 This kom- is Sonderkommando, special unit.

07:55 Speaker 2 Special unit.

07:56 Speaker 1 Yeah.

07:56 Speaker 2 So you think, you think his intentions were good.

07:58 Speaker 1 What?

07:59 Speaker 2 His intentions were, were, were good. His intentions were, were, were, were good.

08:04 Speaker 1 Yes, yes. He, he wanted to save my mother.

08:06 Speaker 2 Right.

08:07 Speaker 1 And he says, "If you want with your mother, you can have the same fate." He says, "Yesterday, the same thing, a mother was, uh, had a little baby. Had a little baby. And of course, passed Mengele, the selection. Yes. Went on the left side. And left side, the, the, the gas chamber. Then they took the, took the ch- the, the, the, the mothers in the gas chamber. They would not even let the mothers to hold the child, but separated children, also child- the children. On the one side in the gas chamber, the mother wouldn't give away the child. She wanted to hold the child. They go together to the gas chamber, die together, holding, holding, h- h- uh, embracing the child."

08:51 Speaker 2 So he told you this story.

08:53 Speaker 1 He said to my mother-

08:54 Speaker 2 This story

08:55 Speaker 1 ..."if you don't wanna have the same fate."

08:56 Speaker 2 And you under-

08:57 Speaker 1 Yes

08:57 Speaker 2 ... you understood all of it?

08:58 Speaker 1 I heard it. I heard it. So he said to my mother, "Give away your child if you don't wanna have the same fate as a mother just yesterday." In 1944, more Jews were killed than from 1939 to '44.

09:15 Speaker 2 Right.

09:16 Speaker 1 But anyways, he says, "This mother was sent to the ga- uh, the left side to the gas chamber."

09:22 Speaker 2 Right.

09:22 Speaker 1 She was holding that baby tight. And the SS says, "Give me the child. I'll throw the child in the, in the..." And she wouldn't give it.

09:34 Speaker 2 Right.

09:34 Speaker 1 So what did the SS do? Grabbed away the child from the, uh, from the mother, and grabbed the child. The two fiselach, the two legs sticking out. Took a rope and tied one leg to one truck which brought the children, would bring the people to the gas chamber. Another one to another truck, and said to the drivers, "Go in opposite direction." In front of the mother, the child was torn into two pieces. Can you imagine what was going on in Auschwitz? So he said to my mother, "If you don't wanna have the same fate, give away the child." Ben Zion, the, the, my mother didn't give away the child. And Baruch Hashem, my mother survived, and I survived. But anyways, this is in Auschwitz. I don't, I don't wanna... You see, I should not speak up the... Eventually-

10:23 Speaker 2 But where did, where did-- Let's, let's back up, let's back up a moment. Where did you come from? Where did you grow up? What was... Which, which-

10:29 Speaker 1 I, I grew up in Czechoslovakia.

10:32 Speaker 2 Okay.

10:33 Speaker 1 In 1938, Hitler wanted Hu- Hungary should join the war effort with Hitler, with, uh, with, uh, with Germany.

10:44 Speaker 2 Right.

10:44 Speaker 1 So gave away a part of Czechoslovakia to Hungary.

10:48 Speaker 2 Right.

10:48 Speaker 1 Hungary annexed a certain part of Czechoslovakia.

10:51 Speaker 2 Sudetenland they called it, right?

10:53 Speaker 1 What?

10:53 Speaker 2 This is the Sudetenland, the-

10:55 Speaker 1 Uh, this is not, this, this is different. This became to Germany, and this is became Hungary.

10:59 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

11:00 Speaker 1 So in Slovakia, a certain section of Hungary, he gave to Hu- uh, to, uh, of Slovakia gave to Hungary.

11:07 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

11:07 Speaker 1 And our co-- Uh, then it's called Kosha, then it's called Kosice. Kosice in Hunga- in Slovakia, Kosha. So we became Hungarians.

11:17 Speaker 2 You were in the town of Kosha?

11:18 Speaker 1 We was born in Czechoslovakia.

11:19 Speaker 2 What was the town called?

11:21 Speaker 1 What?

11:21 Speaker 2 What was the town called?

11:23 Speaker 1 Kosice.

11:23 Speaker 2 Kosice.

11:24 Speaker 1 Uh, it's Kosice in Slovakia.

11:26 Speaker 2 Kosice.

11:26 Speaker 1 Now it's also called Kosice.

11:28 Speaker 2 So what k- what kind of town was it? What kind of-

11:30 Speaker 1 It had 20,000 Jewish population, a population of 20,000 Jews. The most religious, uh, s- tow- city in whole Czechoslovakia. More than Bratislava, the, the, the capital, more than Prague, the most Jewish. Had yeshivas and had chederim, had everything. Beis Yaakovs, all, yeah. And had, uh, very, very Jewish. Yes.

11:54 Speaker 2 And your mishpacha-

11:55 Speaker 1 And in 1944, um, uh, G- Germany, when they, when Hungary was hesitant that maybe she should have saw that the, the, the Germany's, uh, is losing the war.

12:09 Speaker 2 Right, right.

12:09 Speaker 1 She wanted to, to, to, uh, uh, se- sever itself f- from Germany So Hungary, the Germany occupied whole Hungary-

12:17 Speaker 2 Mm

12:17 Speaker 1 ... including our city.

12:19 Speaker 2 So until that point, you were allowed to live normal? There was no ghetto?

12:23 Speaker 1 Not normal. It's antisemitism, but we lived.

12:26 Speaker 2 No ghetto?

12:27 Speaker 1 No ghetto. Only when the Germans, when Germans occupied Kosice, then start to take the Jews into ghetto, from ghetto to Auschwitz.

12:36 Speaker 2 And you remember all of this?

12:37 Speaker 1 Of course, I remember about this.

12:39 Speaker 2 Yeah.

12:39 Speaker 1 It's my engraved, etched in my heart, in my dus, in my neshamah. Um-

12:46 Speaker 2 Mm.

12:46 Speaker 1 So anyways, so you want I should speak about the Holocaust? I want to speak-

12:49 Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, no. I, I, I wanna know-

12:50 Speaker 1 So anyway, so let me tell you

12:51 Speaker 2 ... you s- you said earlier that you didn't-- you grew up, you didn't hear about Lubavitch.

12:54 Speaker 1 I never heard about Lubavitch.

12:56 Speaker 2 So which city-

12:56 Speaker 1 After 19-- uh, in 194- after the war-

13:00 Speaker 2 Right

13:00 Speaker 1 ... after the war, um, Kosice became, Kosice became again Czechoslovakia, Slovakia.

13:09 Speaker 2 Right.

13:09 Speaker 1 Yes. Then the communists took over.

13:13 Speaker 2 Right.

13:13 Speaker 1 In 1944, 1945 to '46, Czechoslovakia independent country.

13:18 Speaker 2 So your family went back after the war?

13:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. Only my mother. My father didn't survive.

13:22 Speaker 2 Didn't survive the camp.

13:23 Speaker 1 Only my mother and my sister. Also miraculously, nisim, nisim, nisim. But in 1948, the Slovakia became, Czechoslovakia became communist.

13:34 Speaker 2 Right.

13:35 Speaker 1 So my mother was very much afraid, just in Russia. They want a Jewish chinuch. They want very co-kosher food. People have to work on Shabbos. So there was an opportunity that as, uh, orphan children roaming around after the war, these countries could go to England.

13:53 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

13:53 Speaker 1 So Czechoslova- uh, uh, um, the chief rabbi from England came to Czechoslovakia and arranged with the government. He have small co- all kinds of children. Uh, the parents didn't come back from Auschwitz and were hidden by Goyim.

14:06 Speaker 2 Right.

14:07 Speaker 1 And they're roaming around. What do you need them for? Let me take them to, uh, to, to Ger- uh, to England. So we got false papers that we are also orphans, false papers, and we came to England. And there, I joined a yeshiva, a Misnagdic yeshiva.

14:25 Speaker 2 Your mother came with, or she sent you off?

14:26 Speaker 1 No, no, no.

14:26 Speaker 2 She sent you off.

14:27 Speaker 1 Only children.

14:28 Speaker 2 Oh, she sent you off.

14:28 Speaker 1 My mother to s- remained in Czechoslovakia.

14:30 Speaker 2 Right.

14:31 Speaker 1 And I ch- I, I, I, I joined, I went to the yeshiva. Uh, uh, well how did I come to England? Only a student visa. A student.

14:39 Speaker 2 Right.

14:39 Speaker 1 So I had to join a yeshiva. Was not Lubavitch.

14:43 Speaker 2 Uh, right.

14:44 Speaker 1 And I-

14:44 Speaker 2 Was Gateshead?

14:45 Speaker 1 And I didn't hear of Lubavitch.

14:46 Speaker 2 Was it Gateshead?

14:47 Speaker 1 And I went, and it was a much better yeshiva, more private yeshiva, was Sunderland.

14:52 Speaker 2 Sunder-

14:52 Speaker 1 Sunder-

14:53 Speaker 2 Oh, Sunderland, right.

14:54 Speaker 1 Sunderland.

14:54 Speaker 2 Near Leeds.

14:55 Speaker 1 Gateshead was a big yeshiva like Bnei Brak.

14:57 Speaker 2 Right.

14:57 Speaker 1 And this is more Slobodka. Yeah, it's more private yeshiva, so I chose, uh, Sunderland.

15:03 Speaker 2 Right.

15:04 Speaker 1 And there I learned for three years.

15:06 Speaker 2 That's in the north of England, yes?

15:07 Speaker 1 What?

15:08 Speaker 2 Sunderland's in the north of England, yes?

15:09 Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes, yes. Not far, uh, 12 miles from the, from Gateshead.

15:14 Speaker 2 Right.

15:14 Speaker 1 But more a private one.

15:15 Speaker 2 Right. Okay.

15:17 Speaker 1 And there I learned for three years. The three years, they poisoned my mind. I come for-- I didn't hear of Lubavitch, but I'm still for Hasidish stock, yes?

15:27 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

15:28 Speaker 1 Um-

15:28 Speaker 2 Your fa- your father wore shtreimel on Shabbos?

15:30 Speaker 1 No, my zayde wore shtreimel. My father not, yes. But a Hasidish person.

15:34 Speaker 2 Right.

15:34 Speaker 1 But anyways-

15:35 Speaker 2 Oh, so your father was, was born to Hasidish faith? Yeah.

15:38 Speaker 1 Yeah, of course. We were-- Uh, and my mother, my f- and my grandmother, my mother all were f-f-from, uh, from, from Strapkov, from v- uh, from, um, uh, different town, from Sanz.

15:47 Speaker 2 Right.

15:47 Speaker 1 Sanz Hasidim.

15:48 Speaker 2 No, I'm just trying to understand-

15:50 Speaker 1 Yeah

15:50 Speaker 2 ... why he, why your grandfather wore shtreimel, not your father.

15:53 Speaker 1 Uh-

15:54 Speaker 2 How did-

15:54 Speaker 1 Let me tell you. Why your father is a shliach, and you do this? Everyone choose their own way. And it's-

15:59 Speaker 2 Oh, no, no, I'm not trying to judge your father.

16:01 Speaker 1 Yeah.

16:01 Speaker 2 I'm trying to understand-

16:02 Speaker 1 No, no, it's-

16:02 Speaker 2 ... the, the culture of the time

16:03 Speaker 1 ... yeah, yeah, yeah.

16:04 Speaker 2 So you-

16:05 Speaker 1 My father went more in business-

16:06 Speaker 2 Right, right

16:06 Speaker 1 ... in business, yeah. But very frum, to Hasidish.

16:09 Speaker 2 Right. Right. Okay.

16:10 Speaker 1 Um, and there they made, scoffed and mocked and ridiculed Lubavitch.

16:17 Speaker 2 Already then?

16:17 Speaker 1 Um, in Sunderland, there's across the channel, there's a yeshiva Bnei-- uh, in Brunah. They learn only Tanya. They don't anything else. And they don't, uh, Amaratzim, don't... So maybe-

16:31 Speaker 2 Why were they, why were they busy with Lubavitch? What did they care?

16:34 Speaker 1 A Misnagid is a Misnagid. You cannot say sh- so anyways, they told me there's a yeshiva, and they said they learn only Tanya, nothing else.

16:42 Speaker 2 Okay.

16:43 Speaker 1 So maybe I, I became a very, a big opponent to Hasidish. Um, in 1951, my mother, as I said before, my mother remained in Czechoslovakia.

16:56 Speaker 2 Right.

16:57 Speaker 1 And, um, under communist regime, we thought we were able to get, uh, get, get out. My mother, they heard that C-Canada made an, an arrangement with Czechoslovakia that the, uh, uh, uh, Canada is a huge country, m- uh, larger than United States. It had at this phase 80 million people.

17:16 Speaker 2 Right.

17:17 Speaker 1 So they wanted more immigration. So maybe people, uh, the Jews from, uh, from the Ca- from Czechoslovakia could come to Canada. But you have to have someone in Canada for send affidavit. So my sister and I decided to come to Montreal, and we come, get the green card, yes. And then we able to send an affidavit to my mother. She'll be able to come from the, from, from, uh, Czechoslovakia under the communists to... In the meantime, we were un-- uh, it, it took us a year to get the green card. So meantime, uh, uh, uh, uh, Czechoslovakia left a year ago to Israel. So my mother went to Israel. It wasn't necessary anymore sh-she should come to Canada. What should I do in Canada? I was a yeshiva bachur. I love to learn. What should I do? In Montreal was only one yeshiva, Yeshivat Tomchei Temimim.

18:14 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

18:14 Speaker 1 Should I go to Tomchei Temimim? I was poisoned against Hasidish.

18:18 Speaker 2 Right.

18:19 Speaker 1 So I came to Rabbi Kramer- Came to Rabbi Kamin. He was the, the, the menahil, director of the yeshiva.

18:27 Speaker 2 Right.

18:28 Speaker 1 Rabbi Greenglass, the mashpia.

18:30 Speaker 2 Right.

18:30 Speaker 1 I said, "I'd like to come join the yeshiva, but on three conditions. One condition, don't force me to learn Chassidus. Whole tachrim is learning to Chassidus. Don't force me learn Chassidus. Don't force me I should learn in the resembling with everybody else because I was afraid they influence me, mashpia on me. And also, I don't wanna s- s- uh, live in a dormitory, a pnimia. Only just give me a private room. They should pay." Can you imagine? Is it normal? Is it logical? Three such conditions. Whole tachrim is made in front of Chassidus, now I make a condition that should not, I don't wanna learn Chassidus, I don't wanna join with the bochurim that they be smadrich, and I don't wanna s- also stay in that pnim with them. I was sure they're going to refuse me.

19:19 Speaker 2 Mm.

19:20 Speaker 1 And two days later, Rabbi Kamin calls me up, "Nisan can come. He can g- jo- join the yeshiva." I don't have a proof, but I intuition my libe omarle. Libe omarle. They must ask the Rebbe-

19:37 Speaker 2 Right

19:38 Speaker 1 ... should I let such a bochur in the yeshiva? The Rebbe said, "Let eventually, eventually." So anyways, they let me in the yeshiva.

19:46 Speaker 2 This is already after Yutzfat, yeah?

19:48 Speaker 1 What?

19:48 Speaker 2 This is already after Yutzfat. So-

19:51 Speaker 1 After Rebbe, came my Rebbe, yeah, after Yutzfat.

19:53 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

19:53 Speaker 1 It's what? 51, Yud Aleph. Yud Aleph.

19:55 Speaker 2 Right.

19:55 Speaker 1 51, Yud Aleph.

19:56 Speaker 2 So right after, yeah.

19:58 Speaker 1 And I learned in the yeshiva, and they gave me a nice private room, a nice private, uh, uh, also a, a, a room where to stay in which, which to learn, and I didn't have learn Chassidus. One Friday night, extremely cold, uh, hot, humid, hot. I didn't have money to buy a, a, a fan, let alone a, a air conditioner. And I said, "Let me go there for a walk. It's very hot." So I walked from my apartment all the way down to downtown where the yeshiva was in Park Avenue, and I see it could have been like 11:00 o'clock, and then I see the light is still on in the yeshiva. The janitor didn't close the light. M- m- it means that someone is inside in the yeshiva. I go in, one person, Rabbi Eliyahu Chaim... Uh, no, uh, Moshe Chaim, uh, Moshe Eliyahu Galitzki. Rebbe Menachem, a Ziser Yid, a geschmacke Yid, a fine Yid. He tells me, "Nisan, come here. I wanna show you." He, he was sitting, learning Tanya. I did not-- If anybody else would ask me, I would refuse. But him such a eidel, such a fine Ziser Yid, I came. He says, "Nisan, sit down. I wanna show you what the Alter Rebbe says here. What did Alter Rebbe say in the Tanya, the Shir Tanya? "Ilo nitan leshush lanirot, uh, lanirot lo nireh gashmius ha- hakomos ha'om klal, only elekus." I learned a lot of Gemara in England. I learned a lot of Rambam. But the whole

21:39 Speaker 1 was elekus was a eye-opener for me. I couldn't imagine the whole... Everything's only elekus. So something, the ice broke. Understand? So meleth, this, this opened my mind that maybe there's something in Chassidus which I don't know. Then again, ashkeha pratith. A week later, Rabbi Galitz tells me, "Nisan, why do you have to live so far? You go by bus to yeshiva every morning. Takes you half an hour. Go back, come to me. I, I give you a room, a private room, not in the pnimia, and stay by me." At the beginning, I refused, but eventually I accepted. So as the ice broke already, Chassidus, there's something Chassidus, and Rabbi, Rabbi Galitz. So when he came home after the Shir and also we went to the kitchen, I made myself a, a, a cup of tea. He wants a cup of tea, but he start to speak. He tell me a story about Baal Shem Tov, something about the Rebbe. Slowly, slowly, slowly, I became a Lubavitcher Chassid.

22:47 Speaker 2 This week's episode is brought to you by This World Is A Garden, a new film and concert production by Uvlah Media. Based on the Rebbe's first talk, Basse LeGani, the production tells the story of the Chabad vision lasting over 300 years, to see this world as God sees it, as His garden. Combining beautiful cinematography with a live performance of a string quartet, This World Is A Garden is a meditation on hope and holding onto a vision as time passes by. This production is now available to be shown at your Chabad house and community. Share the message and vision of Basse LeGani with your community in a way you never have before. For more information, please visit thisworldisagarden.com.

23:33 Speaker 1 This is, this is 5708.

23:36 Speaker 2 5708.

23:36 Speaker 1 And then, uh, uh, uh, Rabbi Galitz says, "Go to the Rebbe."

23:41 Speaker 2 Rabbi Galitz?

23:42 Speaker 1 Rabbi Galitz. So I went to the Rebbe. Then was a... So 5708 was a small Ohel. Not the big beis midrash, but the small Ohel. So I went in the Benjie Altheus, Benny Altheus, Benjie Altheus, remember Altheus? He was send the Rebbe sitting on top and the shack on a small table. The table was not larger, three-quarters of, of this where the Rebbe sitting. Not like now. And, uh, and, and, uh, the shack, and we were standing here outside, here, like here, and I was sitting behind him. In the middle of the frebrengen, the Rebbe sa- says to Benjie, um, "When seeing Altheus, who this bochur?" He said, "This is Nisan Mangel." So the Rebbe, when he heard Nisan Mangel, the Rebbe had a tray of marble cake covered with a, a cover. He took off the cover. The Rebbe took a big mar- piece of marble cake. He called me up, and he gave it to me. Afterwards, so this is the first, the vitamins, the Rebbe Chassidish vitamin, the, the, the marble cake. And then-

24:59 Speaker 2 Had you, had you written a letter before to the Rebbe? Had, had you had any-

25:03 Speaker 1 No

25:03 Speaker 2 ... nothing?

25:03 Speaker 1 No, no. Then I... Till then, I didn't write. No. I wrote later.

25:08 Speaker 2 Right.

25:09 Speaker 1 Um, until that happened. And then when I came, I went to Yechidus. So the Rebbe spoke with me at length, and the Rebbe said all kind of things which I should do. And, and the Rebbe says to me, "Tell me, how are you going back to Montreal?" So I said to the Rebbe, "I d- I co- I couldn't go by train, certainly not by plane. By bus."

25:40 Speaker 2 Right.

25:41 Speaker 1 So I said to the Rebbe, "I'm going to go by bus." The Rebbe said, "By bus? So you can stop over Utica, Albany, Buffalo and speak." I was a greener. How much I started just to learn Chassidus, just to learn Chassidus. The Rebbe said, "No." Immediately the Rebbe enlisted me. I should stop. But I was, uh, h- I, I come to the city, to, to these places. H- how me, Rebbe? So the Rebbe read my mind. Rebbe said, "Don't worry. Tzach is going to arrange it. When you come, arrive for this purpose for Albany," uh, there was, uh, Brickman. Remember Boruch? The, the Brickman was there. So he's gonna come. That hit the guys at some... So Rebbe says, "Stop here, stop here. Speak." How much I know Chassidus, but I spoke something about Tanya, Yesod Ashanah, and so. So this is the, the first Yechidas. Now let me tell you further.

26:34 Speaker 2 Did, did you, did you ask, did you ask the Rebbe anything about the Holocaust? Was that any part-

26:39 Speaker 1 The Rebbe, I never spoke with the Rebbe about the Holocaust.

26:42 Speaker 2 Hmm.

26:43 Speaker 1 The Rebbe never asked me about the Holocaust. Only, and again, Rebbe Rach Koidesh, the, uh, week before the chasune, and the Rebbe knew I didn't have any money. My mother was in Jerusalem. We couldn't take, she couldn't take out, but Baruch Hashem we were well off in Slovakia, Czechoslovakia. But they didn't let out any, any money.

27:04 Speaker 2 Right.

27:05 Speaker 1 So my mother couldn't f- uh, help me financially, and I learned in yeshiva the whole day.

27:11 Speaker 2 Right.

27:11 Speaker 1 I didn't do anything else to make money. Could've give private lessons. I didn't. So the Rebbe knew that I didn't have any money. So the Rebbe asks me, "Tell me, did you get money from Germany?"

27:24 Speaker 2 The reparations?

27:25 Speaker 1 Reparations.

27:26 Speaker 2 Right.

27:27 Speaker 1 I never said, the Rebbe never asked me. There's no, yeah. Rebbe see on that day, I got a check. I could have gotten a lot of money. Why? I could have said that I have nightmares, fears, I can't sleep. I could have given a big pension. But I've cla- don't tell lies. I dare can- can't tell lies. I didn't... If the Jewish wants to give me money, give me the kosher tzedakah.

27:55 Speaker 2 Uh, so it, it would have been a lie. You did not suffer from that.

27:58 Speaker 1 Baruch Hashem. Baruch Hashem, I always had a Muna Rabosies with me. So this I'm not speaking you. Always ha- I felt Rabosies with me. Let me d- d- uh, d- d- digress now.

28:10 Speaker 2 But you didn't wanna ever ask the Rebbe about the Holocaust? You didn't wanna ask, you said-

28:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yes. How much I'm entitled to. I, I was entitled to for, for so much, so much so they sent me the $345.

28:21 Speaker 2 No, no. I'm saying you didn't wanna ask the Rebbe about the Holocaust ever?

28:24 Speaker 1 I never spoke with the Rebbe. If the Rebbe didn't speak with me about Holocaust, I never mentioned the Holocaust.

28:30 Speaker 2 Why not? Why didn't you bring it up?

28:33 Speaker 1 What should I... I, I, I always in Chassidus, in in those, but I, I not-

28:39 Speaker 2 I mean, you saw, you saw terrible things.

28:41 Speaker 1 But I never mentioned to the Rebbe.

28:42 Speaker 2 That's what I'm asking. You saw-

28:44 Speaker 1 I'm sure the Rebbe knew everything about me.

28:46 Speaker 2 But you, you never felt like it was something that you needed-- You had no questions about it, nothing that you wanted to bring up to him?

28:51 Speaker 1 Listen, once I wrote to the Rebbe, "Tzemach Tzedek."

28:55 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

28:57 Speaker 1 And, uh, I, I, as I told you, I spoke all over the world.

29:00 Speaker 2 Right.

29:01 Speaker 1 And also many universities, uh, Yale, Harvard, Columbia, all over the universities. They invited me to speak in Yale University about the Holocaust. And then the dean of the university, the dean of, uh, the Department of Philosophy, the president, and a lot of s- uh, the students, gr- graduate students explained the Holocaust. How can such a thing happen? So I start to explain it of Esau, the Gilgulim. Not the person my father was a Frum, a reserved and fine person. They deserve such a mishebesh about those who should be shot. Yes. And millions of such Yidden, Frum Yidden. The majority of Yidden were Frum, uh, uh, Holocaust were Frum Yidden in Europe. Not like now. Why? So I explained it Esau, the Gilgulim. Sometimes a neshamah comes down to rectify what he did before. And we says in the first Beth Hamikdash, where Ovde Ba- Ovde Habaal, Ovde Avodah Zarah, Ovde, uh, Ovde Habaal. Yes?

30:14 Speaker 2 Right.

30:15 Speaker 1 Ovde Avodah Zarah, Chai Mesech. So it says in Kabbalah, in the sit-- in the Kisva Rishah, if a person dies Al Kidush Hashem, that they pra- uh, those Ovde Habaal serve the Abish- uh, serve the Avodah Zarah several times a day. So the Muslims, Mor- Morning Mu- Yeah, for each Avodah Zarah, the, the bow to the Avodah, Avodah Zarah, Chai Mesech. Throughout the, their lives, tens of thousands or hundreds thou- thousands of Chai Mesech. Is it possible to give a person Chai Mesech? He comes down. How often can he come down? Yes?

30:46 Speaker 2 Right.

30:48 Speaker 1 So what the Abish should do, they said, the Rishah says, um, the Abish there s- uh, makes a, a person dies Al Kidush Hashem, Al Kidush Hashem. So merely this takes off all the Chai Mesechs. And the Mitteler Rebbe in Shaarei Teshuva- Pink quotes also the Riza, and he says for this in, in the, in the Masat Slav, the, the, the Evan Ezra on many great g- g- Gegunim, Rishonim died, but with the crusaders, as you know, they killed.

31:21 Speaker 2 All right.

31:21 Speaker 1 Why? They were Gilgulim from by his vision.

31:24 Speaker 2 Hmm.

31:24 Speaker 1 So I myself g- uh, expanded this just like the Mitteler Rebbe says that, uh, died from the Rishonim, died for Gilgulim. So I said the same thing also six million Jews innocent, but they paid because they were Gilgulim from by his vision. So then I write-- I wrote to the Rebbe, but, uh, the Rebbe spoke also about, uh, the Holocaust, about for those. But the Rebbe didn't mention Gilgulim. So then I wrote to the Rebbe that I was invited to speak in the uni- u- New York University, in the graduate school, the president and Natz Meisus. And at the beginning, at the beginning, said Gilgulim, the J- uh, uh, Israeli students, they objected it. Said, "Of course," they say, "Rebbe, be patient. This needs a lot of explanation. The whole thing of Gilgulim comes from

32:14 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

32:14 Speaker 1 ... Gilgulim is a problem." I was invited to speak once for two hours. It was also videotaped. Eventually, I spoke 10 lectures for two hours. At the end of the 10th lecture, all those, uh, students, the Israeli Apikursim who didn't believe, didn't accept Gilgulim, got up accepted it. So I thought to the Rebbe that I spoke about it and Gilgulim, and it was accepted. So I was Maramus, how come the Rebbe didn't explain this explanation? Rebbe never gave the explanation. So the Rebbe answered to me, uh, s- "Why did they accept it? Because they believe in Gilgulim." I, uh, they didn't believe in Gilgulim, but the Rebbe said they, they believe in Gilgulim. Of course, after I spoke 10 times for two hours, they explained to them until they accepted it. Then the Rebbe asked the question, "If Isurim is only because of Gilgulim," the Rebbe asks me, "How will I explain this Isurim for an Alter Rebbe?"

33:11 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. Interesting.

33:13 Speaker 1 A Neshamah Kadisha.

33:14 Speaker 2 Right.

33:15 Speaker 1 That Rebbe says. Uh, this I could've also answered the Rebbe, but I didn't wanna answer. In the, in the first one in Bozker Gani, the Alter Rebbe q- uh, the, the f- uh, the Rebbe quotes from Shaye Nun Gimel-

33:29 Speaker 2 Right

33:29 Speaker 1 ... "A tzadik suffer- suffer- suffers to alleviate the pa-" But anyways, so this is the only time the Rebbe spoke about it with me, me about, about, um, with the Holocaust.

33:40 Speaker 2 So he, he didn't agree about this.

33:42 Speaker 1 What?

33:42 Speaker 2 He didn't agree with the Gilgulim idea.

33:44 Speaker 1 No. I asked the Rebbe, "Is it correct?" So the Rebbe said, "But Derech Klal, yes."

33:49 Speaker 2 Oh, okay.

33:50 Speaker 1 But there are exceptions, for the Rebbe says, "How come the Alter Rebbe?"

33:54 Speaker 2 Right. Okay.

33:56 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe, this was a, a, Mamash Chidush, that impossible to say during the Holocaust there wasn't one Neshamah Kadisha.

34:04 Speaker 2 Hmm.

34:06 Speaker 1 I wrote to the Rebbe, if what Torah says, "Rubum ke culum" for Neshamas in our times are Gilgulim. That's Alter Rebbe says in Torah. So the Rebbe said, "Rubum ke culum," but not everybody. Impossible to say as it wasn't in the Holocaust one Neshamah Kadisha. So tell me, Bentzion, who could it have been? The Alter Rebbe was autistic when they told him he's not Neshamah Kadisha. Again, B- Li Ba Al Mami, the Rebbe. The Rebbe.

34:38 Speaker 2 Hmm.

34:38 Speaker 1 Yes, the Rebbe suffered. Yes. Somebody wrote to the Rebbe, "Rebbe, how can you speak up at the Holocaust? You didn't suffer." The Rebbe said, "I didn't suffer? What happened to my brother and to my children, to the-- Ach, um, uh, to, to my whole family perished, and I had to run from back and forth." So anyways, he had Neshamah Kadisha.

34:57 Speaker 2 Did, did you, did you feel at the time that the Rebbe was another survivor of the war? Did you see him that way?

35:04 Speaker 1 No, I didn't feel it, but only say a letter what the Rebbe says, "I'm also a survivor."

35:09 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

35:09 Speaker 1 But the Rebbe say impossible to say that during the Holocaust there wasn't a Neshamah Kadisha.

35:14 Speaker 2 Hmm. You said earlier that, that around that time you felt that you were now a Lubavitcher. What, what did that mean at the time? It, it described to me the world where y- your whole, your, the, the world that you grew up in is destroyed, right? You can't go back to that world. It's not-- doesn't exist anymore, and now there's this new world that you have to find a place in. What does it mean that you feel like you're Lubavitcher? You feel like you're part of the community, you feel like you have a-

35:44 Speaker 1 The Iker Lubavitcher felt I have a Rebbe. Before I was on own, had to make all my decisions, everything which I lost on my own. Afterwards, I felt everything what I... I have a Rebbe, come up to Rebbe several times a year for brangens. Memaler I have a Rebbe. In, uh, I said, "Az al chorav," says Pirkovis, "Have a Rebbe." I felt I have Rebbe. And let me just tell you, I came on f- came up at least three, four times a year to the Rebbe from Tofshem Base. And I know many Meisus which afterwards, but, uh, uh, from Tofshem Base, who remembers my... That, uh, very few, very few people are still alive.

36:29 Speaker 2 Right.

36:29 Speaker 1 But anyways, let me just tell you. Once I come into the Rebbe, come the Rebbe, the Rebbe tells me, "Learn Kriyat Shma five times."

36:42 Speaker 2 Hmm.

36:44 Speaker 1 Every week, the whole S- whole Seder from Kriyat Shma five times.

36:49 Speaker 2 Five times. That's a, that's a-

36:50 Speaker 1 And not like, say, Tehillim, that there's a... This, you have to understand every word. You deserve to hear it.

36:57 Speaker 2 That's, that's a big, that's a big, uh, work.

37:00 Speaker 1 Yes. And this not in the Sefer in the Yeshiva.

37:02 Speaker 2 Not in Seder.

37:03 Speaker 1 Not in the Sefer in Yeshiva.

37:06 Speaker 2 Uh.

37:06 Speaker 1 I remember I came up Parshat Hanan and went to the Rebbe Yechidus, and Rebbe asked me, "Tell me, V'gatez-" So the Rebbe, Rebbe Zeshw, had to many times be up to 3:00, 4:00 in the morning and make for himself from the, from the Likutei Torah a whole Pirush on Tanya. Took out the Pirushim. But anyways, so the Rebbe Shmechel, that learns through five times whole Likutei Torah. Afterwards, let me tell you Chidushim was Avzemer Chades, Anya Koton in Lubavitch. Okay? Um, next year, the Rebbe tells me I should go and Chassid Chassidus, uh, uh, every, b- Shabbos between Mincha and Maariv, go Chassid Chassidus.

37:54 Speaker 2 In Montreal?

37:55 Speaker 1 In Montreal. Then was no Likutei Sichos around.

38:00 Speaker 2 Were, were you one of the only people who spoke English at the time from your time in England?

38:04 Speaker 1 I hardly spoke English.

38:05 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

38:07 Speaker 1 In England, I didn't... I only learned Limudei Kodesh.

38:09 Speaker 2 I see. So you didn't speak English?

38:11 Speaker 1 And I came to, uh, to, to, uh, to Montreal, a student visa. So I had to learn, I learned, uh, I, I finished high school in less than a year.

38:22 Speaker 2 Where? In England?

38:23 Speaker 1 England, yes. Rebbe came and gave a private for trigon- trigonomete- uh, uh, uh, of, uh, English composition and history and, uh, trigonometry and, um, I'm tired of it, uh, and, um, and, um, uh, algebra, all these meises, and Baruch Hashem, I finished it with high marks. So I finished it. But anyways, so then the Rebbe s- tells me I should go. And next time, next year, the Rebbe asks me, "Tell me, do you have a Seder to learn Likutei Torah every Shabbos?" I learned all kind of Chassidus, some Achva, I'm... But don't, not Likutei... So, so I said, "Rebbe, Rebbe, no, I d- I don't have a Seder to learn Likutei Torah, a Seder. I'm learned. However, since you told me last year I should go to sh- uh, to, uh, Chassid Chassidus in shul, I don't know what, uh, what the material." So what did... I learn schnell, a maamer in Likutei Torah. I take out, I kash every maamer with a gute kashe.

39:26 Speaker 2 Right.

39:26 Speaker 1 Then, then I take a gute tares and me, I take a toichna, a, a mishmash. Rebbe see them, believe me, my heart was beating. Why? Because the Rebbe, Rabbi Greenglass, Reb Moshe Motkin said, "You have to say Divrei Harav. Don't say your own words, no Pirushim. You say a maamer, Divrei Harav." Here I make my own maamer. So Abba, but Rebbe Shmechel said very good. So Rebbe saw I don't have a material for what to say, my Morim. Uh, uh, uh, two weeks later, until then Rebbe wasn't Magiya the, the Sichas. Yael wrote the Sichas-

40:04 Speaker 2 Right

40:05 Speaker 1 ... and Rebbe wasn't Magiya. Came out, I, I don't know if, uh, because you don't remember, came with a blue page, uh, the title page and, uh, a gray page, uh, a green page, and four, five pages. After I told the Rebbe Chochma was zugen, so Rebbe was Magiya. And for why? Because Rebbe said just like that said, said me, most like Rebbe said that also. So then the whole Likutei Sichos started from when I told the Rebbe Chochma was zugen.

40:35 Speaker 2 You, he's, you saw a connection there?

40:38 Speaker 1 Don't you see? C- c- uh, t- for three years the Rebbe didn't do it.

40:42 Speaker 2 Right.

40:42 Speaker 1 Suddenly a week afterwards the Rebbe's Magiya, yes? And then came your grandfather, started to print them. Then come the whole Likutei Sichos.

40:49 Speaker 2 My great-grandfather, yeah.

40:51 Speaker 1 You want tell a second thing which came, uh, uh, um, uh, was Avzemer Chades in Lubavitch? By your chasune, did you read the Rebbe's letter?

40:59 Speaker 2 We did, yes.

41:01 Speaker 1 Yes.

41:01 Speaker 2 Yeah.

41:02 Speaker 1 Where did it start?

41:03 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

41:04 Speaker 1 Until Chof Alef, Rebbe was Mesadi Kedushin.

41:08 Speaker 2 Right.

41:09 Speaker 1 Chof Alef, Rebbe stopped Mesadi Kedushin.

41:12 Speaker 2 Right.

41:13 Speaker 1 Mesadi Kedushin. Um, the whole time from Tov Shi Yud Alef to Chof Alef, my mother was in Yerushalayim, I was in Canada, the Rebbe didn't let me go to Eretz Yisrael.

41:30 Speaker 2 Why not?

41:31 Speaker 1 Tzorich Ingodt. The Rebbe sure, Rebbe, I shouldn't go to Eretz Yisrael. My mother begged. She said, "Come, my mother wants to see the, the child."

41:39 Speaker 2 Right.

41:39 Speaker 1 And especially she didn't see before the war because of the Holocaust.

41:42 Speaker 2 So the Rebbe told you not to go?

41:43 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe, b- every time the Rebbe says no. Once the Rebbe, my mother wrote a very strong let- letter to the Rebbe that a mother wants to see. So the Rebbe tells me on Yechidus, "You know what? Since your mother is very anxious to see you, heartbroken, you go to London. She will go to London and meet there, but not in Yerushalayim."

42:03 Speaker 2 So he didn't want you to go to Eretz Yisrael?

42:05 Speaker 1 The question was.

42:07 Speaker 2 Mm.

42:07 Speaker 1 Eventually, Chof Alef I got married. Um, Elul I got married. My mother came to the chasune. We went to the chasune, uh, my mother tells me she's going to ask the Rebbe for the Rebbe should Mesadi Kedushin.

42:30 Speaker 2 Oh, so the wedding was in Crown Heights?

42:32 Speaker 1 Crown Heights, yes. My, my, my, my wife comes from Crown Heights. She was born in Crown Heights.

42:36 Speaker 2 Okay.

42:37 Speaker 1 So, um, I said to my, my mother, "Please don't ask the Rebbe, 'cause the Rebbe can make a difference between one Talmid, another Talmid. The Rebbe stopped, and Rebbe, don't ask." But the Rebbe said, "But I'm gonna ask." I said, "Mommy, if you're going to ask the Rebbe, I'm no, I won't take you in. I won't take, uh, take you to Yechidus. You won't come with me." She promised me she won't ask the Rebbe. She went to Yechidus, and Rebbe spoke with my mother a long time. After the Rebbe turned to us, gave us Broches, Broches, Broches, and we walked out. My mother kept her word. She didn't ask the Rebbe. But as we were sh- uh, Rebbe, by the threshold of the door, my mother budge, goes back That's all probably Yechidas. But our Yechidas, she promised me she won't. Now it's all probably Yechidas. She wa- barged back and went to the Rebbe and said to the Rebbe, "Rebbe, please be mesader kiddushin my son." So the Rebbe says this verse, "I would like very much to do it, but how can I make a dis- a distinction between one Talmud and another Talmud?" A Yiddishe mame says, "But isn't my son different?" A Yiddishe mame. So the Rebbe says, "I know, I know even more than you know, but how can I make a distinction? However, what, whatever I do, although I want to be with Gufi, I come to the chuppah, V'ruchi Benishmosi." That Rebbe said, "I come V'ruchi Benishmosi." For

44:12 Speaker 1 this my mother was happy. I came to the chuppah. I said, "I didn't have who should part of it be the arrangement. I didn't have anybody." So David Ruskin was very c- close to me, very a good friend. She asked him, "You make arrangement. He, uh, when, when go to the chuppah, when go to the shiva, uh, the, the, the mayim, you do it, you make arrange." So then I tell him I'd like the Rebbe's letter. The Rebbe sent to everybody a letter. I said, "I'd like the Rebbe's letter should be read."

44:41 Speaker 2 That's a Yiddish letter?

44:42 Speaker 1 No, yeah, yeah. Zogte mir, um, zogte mir, "Who should read it?" "What, what, what?" Say, "Who should read it?" Say, "You should read it." And Ben Zion then started, he read it. I can, I can show you a picture before the chasunah. Then started the second inyan, the Rebbe's letter should be read by the chuppah.

45:04 Speaker 2 Hmm.

45:04 Speaker 1 But till then it wasn't.

45:05 Speaker 2 Hmm.

45:06 Speaker 1 There was no such a thing. He said the Rebbe's letter. Third one I'll let you for some other time.

45:10 Speaker 2 So you one second. So, so, so you, so you wanted the letter to be read because the Rebbe said that-

45:18 Speaker 1 Ah

45:18 Speaker 2 ... I'll be a V'ruchi Benishmosi.

45:19 Speaker 1 The Rebbe said V- uh, V'ruchi Benishmosi by the chuppah, and tell me what does the Chazal tell us? "Onechi."

45:26 Speaker 2 Right.

45:27 Speaker 1 "Ano Nafshi K'tov Zihovis."

45:29 Speaker 2 Right.

45:29 Speaker 1 The Yiddishe writes itself in the Torah, yes? "I rise V'ruchi Benishmosi kulchat." A Torah and Davis is one. The Rebbe sends a letter and se- writes it, yes? The Rebbe puts it in his letter. So the Rebbe is here, push the Kashrus also. Then he started this inyan. See, people let me know the, for six months

45:48 Speaker 2 No, I, I, I technically never understood how it started. I never knew. I always wanted to know how it started, when it sta... I thought it started many years later.

45:56 Speaker 1 No, no, no.

45:57 Speaker 2 Started by you.

45:58 Speaker 1 I can show you the picture

45:58 Speaker 2 No, no, I believe you . I believe you.

46:01 Speaker 1 The chasa- the chasunah picture.

46:02 Speaker 2 I, I always assumed it started years later, but you're saying-

46:04 Speaker 1 Yeah

46:04 Speaker 2 ... it start... I thought it-

46:05 Speaker 1 Yeah

46:05 Speaker 2 ... started when maybe the Yechid- the Yechidasim-

46:07 Speaker 1 Yeah

46:07 Speaker 2 ... stopped.

46:08 Speaker 1 Yeah.

46:08 Speaker 2 But you're saying it started already back then. Hmm. So is it you, you were at that point a bocher in 1770, or you were-

46:16 Speaker 1 I was-

46:17 Speaker 2 ... you were still-

46:17 Speaker 1 ... a bocher, a bocher talmid chacham. A bocher-

46:20 Speaker 2 In 1770?

46:20 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe told me.

46:22 Speaker 2 Now, but, but you were still in Montreal or you already lived-

46:24 Speaker 1 No, I always lived in Montreal.

46:26 Speaker 2 Okay.

46:26 Speaker 1 But he, but the chasunah, I came to, to New York.

46:28 Speaker 2 Right.

46:29 Speaker 1 Then I ch- changed, and the Rebbe knew that I learned. Now let me tell you. I, I d- I didn't think of ge- getting married. I wanted to learn.

46:39 Speaker 2 Right.

46:40 Speaker 1 I got married when I was 26. I learned. In those days, the Rebbe sent till ch- till, uh, actually till Chof Alef to, to, uh, for Anash and also some bochurim, Rosh Hashanah tevilas. Rosh Hashanah, Kesivah, Kesivah U'tevah.

46:58 Speaker 2 Right.

46:59 Speaker 1 Uh, the Rebbe also sent me always every year. Every year after the signature, the Rebbe said a postscript, yes? Nicht, nicht a bet siddoch. Always something. In Tov Shin Chof, the Rebbe writes me, uh, uh, "Hagia zman sh'is anan be'shidduchim." So I said, "Think about shidduchim."

47:17 Speaker 2 The Rebbe would send a letter to each individual chasid before Rosh Hashanah or you got-

47:21 Speaker 1 Yes, yes. No, to, to, to your grandfather, to those. There wasn't a Tish Chof, the one so many chasidim.

47:27 Speaker 2 Right, right.

47:27 Speaker 1 Not like nowadays.

47:28 Speaker 2 I understand.

47:29 Speaker 1 Yes. Um, so the Rebbe sent, I don't know, everybody, but, uh, and for bochurim also, certain, uh, Chabadish albo-

47:38 Speaker 2 Right

47:38 Speaker 1 I got ev- every time I got. Yes?

47:41 Speaker 2 Right.

47:41 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe says, "It's, it's anin." So then, um, I said to Rebbe, uh, "Give glass." The Rebbe told me, "Sit down. I know..." He said, "Tell Shidduch Ash- Ashkenazim." So I didn't have who should in- inquire for you, your parents. These are good shidduchim. That's a good shidduch, the parents, right? So I always ask the Rebbe. So the Rebbe negated. Once in one week, I got seven hatsos, and very good hatsos. Suggestions. So I didn't know what... Usually, I would call up the Rebbe, "I have this hatsot. Should I be, be interested in or not, not?" This time seven, so I decided I'm gonna come to the Rebbe. And Rebbe Hadakov, every time when I wanted to go to Yechidas, he always let me in.

48:31 Speaker 2 Why?

48:33 Speaker 1 Ask Rabbi Hadakov.

48:35 Speaker 2 Uh, do you have... Now, so do you have a, uh-

48:36 Speaker 1 Uh, the anyways, every time I came, he... I tell you, I'm more like a maise, later.

48:42 Speaker 2 Okay.

48:43 Speaker 1 And so, uh, the Rebbe, uh, uh, I came to, uh, thus went Yechidas. I showed the Rebbe the settle of the seven Mishpochas, and Matisyahu Choshin Mishpo- Guta Mishpochas. The Rebbe never had a pen. The Rebbe had a pencil only, only a pencil. So negate one after the other, all seven the Rebbe was negated. Not for me.

49:06 Speaker 2 Mamash?

49:07 Speaker 1 Mamash, all seven. So then the Rebbe, "Not I should go out and not... No, this for me." Then the Rebbe says in the, "Listen, me, I have a yatzah. Ich have the yatzah." I said, "Rebbe's got yatzah, a shidduch." "No. Ich willst das arbeiten for mir."

49:23 Speaker 2 Hmm.

49:26 Speaker 1 Um, so the Rebbe says there's the Likutei Torah, many, many mistakes, nisht mamash mekomos. Same thing on, uh, the, the Shulchan Aruch has all many, many mistakes, nisht mamash mekomos all this, and I want you should do that.

49:43 Speaker 2 Hmm.

49:43 Speaker 1 That the Rebbe gave me.

49:44 Speaker 2 Hmm.

49:45 Speaker 1 And then, so I said, "Start for the Rebbe." So I worked for the Rebbe before I got ha- I got married, like two, three years. And the Rebbe said, "I want you should get paid."

49:54 Speaker 2 From Montreal, you were-

49:55 Speaker 1 In Montreal, and I, I should get paid. And I worked, that's Chutz L'Zman, at night a lot later on Likutei Torah and, uh, Ma'amarim Mekubalim and so on.

50:07 Speaker 2 And so the Ma'amarim Mekubalim-

50:08 Speaker 1 But I never wanted to take money.

50:10 Speaker 2 So the Ma'amarim Mekubalim in the back of Likutei Torah is your work?

50:13 Speaker 1 What?

50:14 Speaker 2 The Ma'amarim Mekubalim the back-

50:15 Speaker 1 No, no, no. Afterwards, I, just, uh, I started it, but I, the, the Mar Mikamis, Shakhna, what became very, very heavy a lot.

50:24 Speaker 2 Right.

50:25 Speaker 1 So then we give to, I give the Rebbe later, and then the Rebbe give to Kitri. But, uh, the Mar Mikamis is me. I give a lot, a lot. From Hilchas Nida and Hilchas Chash Mishpat, I give a lot. But anyways, Chevre, uh, Rebbe Tzion, um, what did I wanna say? Then, the Rebbe told, "I want, I, I want you should, you should get paid." I was brought up from the Rebbe Nempt Menish, Megidde Rebbe, Tzaddokai, yes? Nishme. I did not... Although I didn't have any money, I did not take for three years working for the Rebbe hours every day, many hours, and I didn't get paid. I didn't wanna get paid. A week before the Chasana, when I went in with my wife, with my mother. So the Rebbe says, "Please, I want to make a ch- you make a Cheshbon." The Rebbe says as follows: "For three years, how can you know how many hours?" Yes? Yes. Um, how much I, I, um, does. Because for every hour, Chevre... So the Rebbe says, "If you ask more than you're entitled to," biblically, the Rebbe says, "Me, be Moichel for you. If you ask less, you Moichel for ask." Can you imagine? I should be Moichel for the Rebbe. That's what the Rebbe said. I should make a estimate, and if I... Rebbe Tzion, I didn't. So a week before the Chasana, I didn't ask. I didn't want take money from the Rebbe. Come the day of the cha- the Chuppah, the afternoon is

51:59 Speaker 1 the Chuppah, I davened Shacharit with the Rebbe together and because wanted the Rebbe should not, not have to say Tachnun, the Choson, the, that Tachnun. And then the, after davening, Chadakov comes over to me, the Rebbe says, "You cannot go to the Chuppah unless you make a Cheshbon with us." Can you imagine? So, and before the Rebbe said to me, "Make a nice Chasana on my Cheshbon. I'll pay it for the Chasana." Now, the Choson have the music and when the v- videos and the ph-photographs and the flowers, yes? The Rebbe says... Rebbe Tzion, I never take a penny for that. The Rebbe said, "On my Cheshbon, make a nice Chasana. A Rebbe good Chasana." We had also, we took, took the, the, the, the Reimer, the, uh, um, Erlich. You remember the Erlich? You heard?

52:56 Speaker 2 The, the, the composer.

52:57 Speaker 1 Yes.

52:58 Speaker 2 Yonty Erlich.

52:58 Speaker 1 Yonty Erlich. It was a beautiful Chasana. The Rebbe said it should be a beautiful Chasana.

53:03 Speaker 2 Ah, he sing by your Chasana.

53:04 Speaker 1 He came, yes, b- but for the Rebbe, I didn't take a, uh, one penny.

53:07 Speaker 2 He didn't take one penny.

53:08 Speaker 1 Yeah, but he, the Rebbe said to, "I, I can't go until I make a Cheshbon." What do you think? For three weeks, uh, for y- three years working, how much do I, uh, uh, in thousands of dollars. A Shliach came to me before. He says, "I need money." A Shliach. Chadakov, the Che... Merkos had a, a, a, a, a, this, um, a Chesed fund. Any person from abroad can borrow $200. Don't forget it was '56, you know, $200 was like $2,000, yes?

53:42 Speaker 2 Yeah.

53:42 Speaker 1 Can borrow $200. Anybody who works for Merkos can make $700.

53:47 Speaker 2 Hmm.

53:49 Speaker 1 So he comes to me, he says, "Listen, please, I need money. I don't have money. Please, I took already $200. Go to Rebbe Chadakov and borrow, and I'll pay you back." Borrow for him $700. The Shliach never paid me back. I Moichel for him. I Moichel, but bleiben Shalom. Yes. But so I said to Rebbe Chadakov, "He make my Cheshbon, be Moichel, I owe you $700." This... And for three years working, seven... Rebbe Chadakov was in seventh world, uh, in seventh he-heaven, right? That, uh, uh, uh, be seven... This was the gantz maise. All right?

54:24 Speaker 2 What was the story with Rebbe Chadakov you wanted to say? You said, "I married the girl maise with Rebbe Chadakov."

54:29 Speaker 1 Yes. So let me just tell you. I'll see you soon, Mitch Hashem. Yes. I'm going now. I'll talk to you. Good.

54:39 Speaker 2 Sorry, sir.

54:41 Speaker 1 Yes, yes. Till six o'clock I go, okay. So tell me now. Um, the Rebbe sent me several times to Lakewood.

54:57 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

54:58 Speaker 1 'Cause do a little bit hard to learn, and go to Lakewood, make Hasidim. So tell me, let me tell you the second time. B'derech klal, at the Yeshiva Montreal, uh, uh, uh, before Rosh Hashanah already, from Chayei Elul, closed up and came to New York till after T- uh, till after Tisha B, till after Sukkot. I felt I can daven much better. Rosh Hashanah I'm keep it in Montreal, in, in New York, pushing ahead with him, "We'll come and daven and this." So I always came only for Sukkot. Sometimes I came up for Rosh Hashanah and Kippur also. But b'derech klal, I felt Rosh Hashanah and Kippur is supposed to special, uh, I, I belonged in Montreal. I came up for Sukkot. The first day Chol HaMoed Sukkot, the Rebbe made a big farbrengen. It's called a s- the farbrengen from Merkos L'Inyonei Chinuch for the Yeshiva Bachurim. Came from Telshe, Das, from Mir, from all over, from Berlin, called for the Yeshiva. And they made a big farbrengen And of course, I was also there already by the farbrengen because I came up for Sukkos. Next morning, Rabbi Chodov calls me over, tells me, "The Rebbe saw you by the farbrengen, and Rebbe asks you, 'What does Nissiman Gel do here? He should be in Lakewood.'" "Rebbe Chodov, I was, I was in here Rosh Hashanah. I was, I was here Shabbos Shuva. I was here Yom Kippur. I came for Sukkos. Now the Rebbe sends me away?" He says to me, he's like,

56:41 Speaker 1 "Nissim, ‹foreign language› Rebbe. The Rebbe says to you b- you have to go to s- to, uh, Lakewood." And then he says to me, "Take, uh, uh, ‹foreign language› also Hashanas." You know, for, for Hashana Rabah, Jewish have to be whole chol hamoed, whole chol hamoed. I won't be at Rebbe's farbrengen every, every night.

57:05 Speaker 2 Right.

57:05 Speaker 1 Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, simchas Tosheiva.

57:09 Speaker 2 Right.

57:10 Speaker 1 So I hold, yeah, yeah, that's what Rebbe said, "Till Hashanas." Till Shemini Atzeres, Hashana Rabah. So I, I, I said, "I, I won't be able to get Hashanas in Lakewood, but Rebbe to- the, the Rebbe said should take Hashanas also." I went to Lakewood, and Rabbi Aharon Kotler was a emesdikim fo misnaged against the Rebbe. Emesdikim. Also, simchas Tosheiva was the chabad, um, uh, mitah Rabbonim. He used to come in the, in the sukkah at nine o'clock with his son, his son was called Schneer, Schneer Kotler, and all the, uh, um, the Kollelhevrah. The bochurim left home, but the Kollelhev, uh, uh, who got married lived in L- Lakewood to this date. There could've been 50, 60 Kollelhevrah. So all went in the sukkah, and also participated, and also spoke. After 10 o'clock, Rabbi Aharon Kotler left, Schneer Kotler left, and then I took over. Farbrenged with them with the Kollelhevrah, Chassidus till five, six o'clock every night.

58:19 Speaker 2 He knew about it?

58:20 Speaker 1 What?

58:21 Speaker 2 Rabbi Kotler knew about what you were doing?

58:24 Speaker 1 I have no idea. But I was farbrenging, yeah, and Rabbi Aharon Kotler had, had, had a, uh, hope was holding for me because I, I spoke with him in learning.

58:34 Speaker 2 Uh, he knew who you-

58:35 Speaker 1 I, I don't, I guess don't, I don't know if he knew it, but he wa- he was mechabed me.

58:39 Speaker 2 So he knew who you were?

58:40 Speaker 1 Yes. I, I knew him. I was that together with him in the sukkah and also-

58:45 Speaker 2 Oh, I thought maybe he didn't pay attention to you.

58:46 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, no, he knew. Uh, once after, uh, after Shav..., uh, after simchas-

58:52 Speaker 2 And, and you were there with, like, a Lubavitch hat and everything or?

58:55 Speaker 1 I didn't have a, a B-, a Moshiach.

58:57 Speaker 2 No, no, no.

58:58 Speaker 1 He looked, uh, yes.

58:59 Speaker 2 Lubavitchers, the hat they went down.

59:00 Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes, yes. And I spoke Chassidus. He, he was an almond. Had a room, and they gave me a room near him. And one night after simchas Tosheiva, that could be five, six o'clock in the morning, so a little bit tipsy. But you know what tipsy means? A little-

59:17 Speaker 2 Of course, of course.

59:19 Speaker 1 Yeah. And by mistake I went into his room, opened up the door to his room. He turned on the light, and he said, "Where is doch?" So I said, "Nissiman Gel" and closed the door and I went away to fatty. But anyways, so they're like this the whole every Shim... every night chol hamoed, so farbrenging with the talmidim, with the, the, the Kollelhevrah that in Lakewood. Came Hashana Rabah, was happy already, and now on day of Hashana you have to say dvarim, you have to say tehillim, so when I'll be able to go to schlafen? I won't have to farbrengen. So at a big Beis Medrash that, uh, the Shivas Rabbeinu, I loved that, I mean. So Aharon Kotler, Schneer Kotler and a couple talmid were discussing that Hashanas, then I understood they didn't have, you know, the segulah. You know, Hashanas with segulah is not so kosher. And so they understood why the Rebbe told me I should ta-take also Hashanas. But anyways, so I said whole dwarim, and I was in middle of tehillim. I was almost three-quarters finished with tehillim, and I, I didn't want to go and discuss with him the, that with the gatz meyses because I want to go to schlafen already. So around one o'clock, half past one, a young man comes in nicely dressed, very nicely dressed, and comes over to me, gives me, "Shalom aleichem. Are you a Lubavitcher?" Said to him, "Yes." He said, "Tell me, can I ask you a favor?" Said, "What's the

1:00:52 Speaker 1 favor?" "Can you come over to my house?" Said to him, "Listen, I'm almost finished, like about three-quarters, another 50 kapitel. If you can wait until I finish tehillim, then I go over to your house." I come over to the house. He said, "I learn in the Kollel. I'm a Kollelhev here, young man. And I'd like you to learn with me a Perek Tanya." Said to him, said, "Why couldn't you learn in a, in the..." He had a pri... The Kollelhev, each one has a private apartment. "Why couldn't you learn Beis Medrash with the..." "Did you see Rabbi Aharon Kotler? If he would see I, I learn Tanya, he would throw me out." Said, "I want you to learn a Perek Tanya." Rabbi, and see, I was so sleepy every night. During the daytime if you sleep, you can't catch up.

1:01:42 Speaker 2 Right.

1:01:42 Speaker 1 And you get... And I went to sleep five, six o'clock every morning every, every s... So I was hoping to, uh, at go schlafen Hashana Rabah. He asked me to learn Tanya. Once I hear the Rebbe sent me to, to, to, to Lakewood, I'm going to learn with him Tanya slowly, explain what a nitzoos means, what a, a tzimtzum means.

1:02:03 Speaker 2 Which Perek did you learn? Which-

1:02:04 Speaker 1 I don't remember this.

1:02:05 Speaker 2 Okay.

1:02:05 Speaker 1 I don't remember this And slowly the Perek took at least 45 minutes.

1:02:11 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

1:02:12 Speaker 1 I've thought, "Baruch Hashem, now I can finish and go shlafen." Said, "Can I ask another favor?" Said, "What?" "Can you read me another Perek?"

1:02:20 Speaker 2 Hmm.

1:02:21 Speaker 1 You can't imagine, mamash mesirat nefesh. I couldn't, I, I, I, I couldn't drink because my... I mean, you don't drink because it's a Sukkah-

1:02:28 Speaker 2 Right

1:02:29 Speaker 1 ... Chabad. And my mouth was dry already. And again, I still learned with him slowly, slowly because once I'm a Shaliach of the Rebbe, do this properly. And I learned every word, every s- this line properly. Get another foot. Reb Menachem Mendl, the second Perek. "Can I ask you another favor?"

1:02:51 Speaker 2 I think I know where this is going.

1:02:52 Speaker 1 I said, "Not a third." Soon he'll hear this, "Morid Kimaitim." So he says, "Can I, uh, I can ask you another favor a third time?" But this time was already Alos Hashachar. Can you imagine? Alos Hashachar was a day already. Then if he finished, he says, "Let, let, let me tell you why I asked you to learn three Perekim of Tanya." "I'm a Talmid Muvhak of Rav Aharon Kotler. I'm already 29, 23, 30 years old. I couldn't find a Shidduch. I asked Rebbe Kotler for a Broche. He gave me a Broche, it didn't work. I went to this one, to Reb Moshe Feinstein, to all the Gedolim in America. It didn't work. I went to the Gedolim in Eretz Yisrael. All the Gedolim, the Rebbe, Tzaddikim in Eretz Yisrael, didn't work. So vel, I had no Bechirah. I know I'm Talmid Muvhak of Rav Aharon Kotler, but I'm Re- I went to Lubavitcher Rebbe and asked the Rebbe for a Broche. So the Rebbe told me, "Learn every day a Perek Tanya, and soon you become a Cho- a, a Chosid."

1:04:04 Speaker 2 Hmm.

1:04:05 Speaker 1 "Today I became a Chosid, Hoshanah Rabbah."

1:04:08 Speaker 2 Hmm.

1:04:08 Speaker 1 "That's why a token of appreciation for the Rebbe. So I want to learn three Perek of Broche of Tanya."

1:04:16 Speaker 2 Hmm.

1:04:17 Speaker 1 Can you imagine?

1:04:17 Speaker 2 Hmm.

1:04:18 Speaker 1 The Rebbe sent me, and then he asked me, "Tell me, when are you going back?" No, the Rebbe, "Can you ask another favor?" Says, "Reb Boruch Shayele Lamdan." Says, "No, when are you going back?" Says, "Hoshanah Rabbah." Says, "I like to have Selichos on, on Hoshanas this. I'll go back tomorrow afternoon. To Hoshanas, I'll eat here in, in, in, um, Lakewood, in the Yeshiva, and I'll take a bus." Said, "Can I take a le- c- can I give a letter to you with you to the Rebbe?" "By all means." So he gave me, in the davening, gave me a letter I should take to the Rebbe. I took a gray hound bus. I arri- I arrived maybe a half an hour before the Shkiah. So I ran f- fast to the Rebbe Chad Gadol, gave him the letter, and then went to the Mikveh. And Motzei Simchas Torah, the day after Simchas Torah, I went to Yechidus. Reb Menechem Mendy, I just opened the door. The Rebbe saw me, a smile a mile long. And the Rebbe asked me, "Wasn't afraid to tell you to, to learn Chassidus with him?" Said, "Because Rebbe, you be a..." Said, "Yes, the Rebbe, he was afraid, and that's why he told me this." But the Rebbe so with Simcha, and the Brocha became fulfilled. If you want another Ba'ayinan for Dechut, another-

1:05:38 Speaker 2 So, so the Rebbe said, "Was he afraid that you should learn Chassidus with him?"

1:05:41 Speaker 1 The Rebbe asked me, "Wasn't afraid?" Because he mu- must have wrote in a letter that I learned with him Chassidus Tanya.

1:05:47 Speaker 2 Wasn't, wasn't he afraid?

1:05:48 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe asked me, "Wasn't he afraid to learn Tanya?"

1:05:51 Speaker 2 Right.

1:05:51 Speaker 1 Because he didn't write it, he wrote in his apartment, not in his, you know. So I said, "The Rebbe, yes, he was a bit afraid because Reb Aharon Kotler was there." The smile from the Rebbe.

1:06:01 Speaker 2 Did you, did you at the time... 'Cause it, what's so interesting about these stories is that you're going back to the time right after the war, and Lubavitch is a very small group. The Rebbe sending these individual letters before Rosh Hashanah. Lakewood is the fier small, right? Because, wait, you said there's 50, 60 people in the Kollel. Today that's, today they have 5,000, who knows? And it, the, it's almost like, what's the expression in, in, in, uh, the Pasuk? The whole, the whole, uh, Achashverosh tells Esther, "The whole land is in front of you." There's... On one hand, the, the community is so small, but the future is not defined.

1:06:42 Speaker 1 Let me tell you, Chabaisé-

1:06:45 Speaker 2 Okay

1:06:46 Speaker 1 ... which I heard Tov Yehud Beis. I don't know if, or if he heard it from, from me because I made bits and also what I mentioned now. Um, there was a Satmar younger man. And, uh, in those days, Satmar had a Bes Medrash here. There were men, not only Bobover were here-

1:07:06 Speaker 2 No, sure, sure

1:07:06 Speaker 1 ... Satmar.

1:07:07 Speaker 2 Sure.

1:07:08 Speaker 1 So the only Rebbe, which became a Rebbe in United States, is our Rebbe.

1:07:14 Speaker 2 Right. Uh-

1:07:14 Speaker 1 All our Rebbes came from Europe.

1:07:16 Speaker 2 In those days.

1:07:17 Speaker 1 The Beyaner Rebbe, the Bobover Rebbe, the, the Friediker Rebbe, all came from Rebbe.

1:07:21 Speaker 2 You're saying in tho- in those days?

1:07:23 Speaker 1 From, from... Yeah. And the only one who's newly minted a Rebbe was only our Rebbe.

1:07:29 Speaker 2 Hmm.

1:07:30 Speaker 1 So this Satmar younger man was curious, how does a Rebbe which made in America, is a genuine Rebbe?

1:07:38 Speaker 2 Uh.

1:07:38 Speaker 1 Or Rebbe is like, uh, this, uh, wishy-washy? What kind of Rebbe? So he decided he's gonna come to Crown Heights. He had a family in Crown Heights.

1:07:48 Speaker 2 To make an bedikah.

1:07:50 Speaker 1 And next to the near, let's say, bedikah, safer, near, let's see, see.

1:07:55 Speaker 2 Right.

1:07:55 Speaker 1 He said he's gonna come Friday night to learn about the Rebbe. This Tov Yehud Beis, just a year, just a year after the Re-- And see what kind of Rebbes are made in America, made in USA.

1:08:09 Speaker 2 Right.

1:08:10 Speaker 1 In those days When the Rebbe just, uh, a- a few months after the Rebbe became a Rebbe, that the Rebbe didn't even a chair. After the Rebbe had a, a nice chair, yes.

1:08:21 Speaker 2 Uh-

1:08:21 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:08:22 Speaker 2 Sure.

1:08:22 Speaker 1 The Rebbe came into daven for Mincha, where did he sit? On the bench with the bochurim. He didn't have a chair.

1:08:30 Speaker 2 He didn't have a chair during davening?

1:08:32 Speaker 1 He'd sat on the bench with the bochurim learning.

1:08:35 Speaker 2 Huh, that-

1:08:36 Speaker 1 And all of a sudden Rebbe comes in with the whole entourage.

1:08:39 Speaker 2 Right.

1:08:40 Speaker 1 Later, the Rebbe came in with Rabbi Chadakov, with Klein, Rebbe Yoel Groner, and Yoely K- the whole... He there came alone.

1:08:47 Speaker 2 Right.

1:08:48 Speaker 1 By them, uh, b- uh, uh, oyes un brocheve, eish un merkahas. Rebbe comes in Satmar. He there comes alone.

1:08:55 Speaker 2 Right.

1:08:56 Speaker 1 Where they sit? On a bench.

1:08:58 Speaker 2 Also, also-

1:08:59 Speaker 1 Shmektish with the Rebbe

1:09:00 Speaker 2 ... just a hat, yeah.

1:09:01 Speaker 1 Yeah. The, the, the... Wait, wait with the hat. Wait. This is a different ma'aseh.

1:09:06 Speaker 2 Okay.

1:09:07 Speaker 1 This is a, a third ma'aseh.

1:09:08 Speaker 2 Okay. We'll get to it.

1:09:09 Speaker 1 But here, he says, "This is not a genuine, authentic Rebbe." Just, uh, thought to himself, "Maybe it's only by Mincha." Came to Maariv, Kabbalat Shabbat it'll be more eish merkahas. It may more with the fire if it's those standards. Came to the Ma- Maariv, the same thing also. The Rebbe, you know, came in. The Rebbe, uh, touched the parochas, you know, and sat down on a bench, poshe with the bochurim learn. And the whole davening is ganshmid gansht. Nothing's... He decided what he wanted to see, he saw already. He's not a genuine Rebbe. He's, uh, made in America, this abba's Rebbe. He won't come tomorrow anymore. Fartik, he has... What he wanted to see, he saw already, and he says, "It's not a Emesdik Rebbe." He went back to his uncle and aunt for a seudah Shabbos. Seudah Shabbos, ma'apikedre, and went to sleep. Middle of the sleep, there's a chalom, a chizoin, a vision. The Friediker Rebbe stands over him as he sleeps, "Al tigu be-meshichoi. Don't degrade, don't look down, don't touch." Meshichoi, the Rebbe called him meshichoi. Yes?

1:10:23 Speaker 2 Huh.

1:10:23 Speaker 1 "Al tigu be-meshichoi." And he woke up, and he saw the Rebbe was very stern, very serious, and he go- got up. So he said he was enveloped in sweat from the fear. He decided he's gonna come back tomorrow, yes to the davening in Sam Tsani. So you remember when you come in, in upstairs, there's a door and opposite the windows.

1:10:48 Speaker 2 Right.

1:10:49 Speaker 1 Yes?

1:10:49 Speaker 2 Sure.

1:10:50 Speaker 1 He stood by the window. This Sam Yinger man stood by the window.

1:10:54 Speaker 2 And the Rebbe sat by the door, yeah.

1:10:56 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe, the Rebbe came in. Usually, the Rebbe would come in, go to the Ohel HaKodesh.

1:11:02 Speaker 2 Yeah.

1:11:03 Speaker 1 This time when the Rebbe, uh, after he had the dream and came back Shabbos again, so the Rebbe came in. The Rebbe noticed him standing by the window. The Rebbe went over to him, and he says q- quietly, "Chalomas, don't listen to chalomas. Chalomas shav yedabeiru. Chalomas have no meanings." Can you imagine the roch HaKodesh?

1:11:24 Speaker 2 Hm.

1:11:25 Speaker 1 The Rebbe knew his chalom and says, "Don't pay attention to..." The Rebbe said, "Meshich, al tigu be-meshichoi." So the Rebbe, s- said, "Don't pay attention to the chalomas. Chalomas, the Gemara says chala- it's opposing in, in, in, in this, mes-- Chalomas shav yedabeiru. Chalomas mean nothing, meaningless." And then he saw who the Rebbe is.

1:11:47 Speaker 2 Hm.

1:11:47 Speaker 1 Can you imagine this?

1:11:49 Speaker 2 Who told you this story?

1:11:50 Speaker 1 This story, not he told. I wasn't there, but I heard it from somebody who heard it from him.

1:11:55 Speaker 2 Wow. Hm. S- so, s- at the time, did you sense that there was a whole shailah of where things were going in, in terms of the... It's after the war. E- everything from the past is gone, basically, yeah, and now there's a chance to build a new, a new dor, a new world here in America, which up to a few years ear-

1:12:22 Speaker 1 Let, let me tell you. By Noach, it says three times the word Noach. It says, "Noach, Noach, he stadi chayo, chayo benos Noach." So Hazal tells us why it says Noach. He saw three worlds: the world before the flood-

1:12:37 Speaker 2 Right

1:12:37 Speaker 1 ... the flood, and after the flood. We can see we're also like this. The world before the Holocaust, the Holocaust, and after the Holocaust. We also saw three different worlds, and, uh, if not the Rebbe, without any doubt, 99% of Yiddishkeit would be now assimilated, intermarried. Who stemmed this assimilation? Who checked it? Who stopped it? The Rebbe with his shluchim.

1:13:06 Speaker 2 But did you feel that at the time? Because you're telling me all these-

1:13:09 Speaker 1 No, no, no

1:13:10 Speaker 2 ... what did you-

1:13:10 Speaker 1 The Rebbe now, honestly, our Rebbe with roch HaKodesh.

1:13:13 Speaker 2 But-

1:13:13 Speaker 1 Rebbe a tzadik

1:13:14 Speaker 2 ... but what did you feel at the time when the Rebbe sends you to Lakewood to sit on the bus and go and sit in Lakewood in the sukkah every night and to fabregen and to learn? What, what did you feel-

1:13:24 Speaker 1 I saw the nisim the Rebbe foresees what, uh, his shluchim will be able to accomplish.

1:13:29 Speaker 2 But what did you f- what did you think you were accomplishing, is my question. What was the goal?

1:13:32 Speaker 1 The shaliach didn't know. Afterwards. Just take the Rebbe, the, uh, the Rebbe said to learn a perek Tanya.

1:13:38 Speaker 2 Right.

1:13:38 Speaker 1 And become a, a, a chosid, yes?

1:13:40 Speaker 2 Right.

1:13:40 Speaker 1 So afterwards, I realized how the Rebbe, the nes of the Rebbe, the broche of the Rebbe, how it worked.

1:13:46 Speaker 2 Right.

1:13:46 Speaker 1 Do you wanna hear another ma'aseh from Lakewood?

1:13:48 Speaker 2 Sure.

1:13:50 Speaker 1 Another ca- another time. Uh, tell me, how much time do we have?

1:13:56 Speaker 2 As long as you can go.

1:13:57 Speaker 1 Okay, yeah.

1:13:57 Speaker 2 I, I'm-

1:13:58 Speaker 1 But remember, we stop... C- go to 15, 20 minutes, we stop, okay? Um, the Rebbe sent me several times to Lakewood. Once, I made a whole group to learn Chsi... I learned with them Chsidus. Then I learned, um, uh, made they should c- learn, continue learning Chsidus. And one person became particularly close. He wasn't with, uh, still a talmid from the, from, uh, Rav Kotler, but came a little bit close to, to, to the Rebbe, to Chabad Lubavitch. Was open-minded at least, open-minded. I said I wanted very much he should come to the Rebbe. I was in Montreal, and he went to Lakewood. So I always tell him, "Why do you come from Lakewood, take a bus, come to fabregen Shabbos Vorchim or the..." You bes... He never wanted to go. Once I had to come to the Rebbe for a Chsidus, so I s- uh, send him a postcard. It was, uh, 50, 60 years ago. Before internet, before sa- smartphones. And I sent him a, a postcard, "I'm coming for Shabbos, Shabbos Vorchim. I'm coming for, for, to New York. Why don't you come also join me?" So he came, And arrangement where she stay, stay with me together. Stayed by the, by Rabbi Groner, the old Rabbi Groner, for Shabbos, and he enjoyed very much the fabrangen. And next month, I told you Rabbi Chadakov always let me in whenever I wanted to come in. Yechidas always let me in. So this time I went to Rabbi Chadakov Sunday morning. After davening,

1:15:36 Speaker 1 I tell him, "Listen, I'd like to go to Yechidas." He tells me, "Don't you know tonight is Rosh Chodesh? Rosh Chodesh is no Yechidas. So how can you go to Yechidas?" So I say, "Okay, for me, I can be moichel, but I brought this, this bocher, a top-notch bocher from, uh, from Lakewood, and, um, what will he think that I poshed, I bluffed? I want he should come to the fabrangen. I don't want Yechidas." So he tell me, "What can I do? There's no Yechidas." I sh- so I tell him, "Rabbi Chadakov, where is Rosh Chodesh?" I say, "." "Let us in before, in the afternoon." And he, "There's never Yechidas." So I tell him this in big voice, "Listen, do you want to make a machnai sedor in Lubavitch? We can have Yechidas afternoon." Um, but there was . Several times I went in afternoon, several times. But listen... Several times. But anyways, but there was . So I tell him, I apologize. He said, "Listen, I made a mistake. I didn't realize that Rosh Chodesh is Sunday night." So , I, I'm, I'm sorry. And he bought a ticket to go back because I thought he going Yechidas. Sunday night, 10:00, go back to Lakewood. So I had to stay in New York Sunday. So we learned Yechidas in the morning, in the afternoon. Then I start to learn with him Tanya. I learned Tanya, and I saw he was very much impressed, inspired with Tanya. Then suddenly he blurts out, he

1:17:15 Speaker 1 says, "Tell me, is Tanya Torah? Can't you learn T..." Uh, what, what I mean, "Can't you learn, uh, Torah you mustn't learn without Birkat Torah first. First you have to Birkat Torah. If you don't say Birkat, you mustn't learn Torah. Can't you learn like a newspaper? Can you do..." It was about, it was, uh, . So I, then I lashed out to him, "You know what Tanya is? Primas Hatorah, Nishtonei HaTorah, Ikkar HaTorah, Torah Chadosha." And I spent a great length, about over, almost over an hour, what is Primas Hatorah, Rozeh le'ozeh, Rozeh de'rozeh. And it came like 7:00. Rabbi Chadkov, uh, comes over to us, "There was, he can go in." Now that he is, he says cannot, but he must have asked the Rebbe. There was, "He can go in." So I, uh, so I tell him, "Listen, I write a tselal when I go in to the Rebbe. You just go in and speak. You go in, and while you speak with the Rebbe, I write my tselal." He went in, and over about Shidduchim and all kind of matters, what should he do, and, uh, uh, after virtue what, all kind of, uh, uh, shailas. But came, comes out red, his face like burikes, like beets. I was frightened, "What goes on? What happened?" So I tell him, "Zachi, what happened?" He says, "I can't speak. I can't speak." And of course, I couldn't speak. I went in, and I asked my shailas. I finished my shailas. I asked the Rebbe...

1:18:54 Speaker 1 Uh, the Rebbe asked me, "Tell me, what is he going to do now?" So I tell him, "10:00 he's going to go back to Lakewood." So the Rebbe says, "Oh, but David Raskin, every Rosh Chodesh in those days made a fabrang for the bochur." There weren't so many bochurim. It was 50, 60, huh? "Made a fabrangen." So the Rebbe says, "See to it he should stay by the fabrangen." He said, "Ich veis mit dem gut sekvetchen." I say, "Pushie, Pushie," I went, I say, "It's very, zehr a gute zach. Fabrang mit sekvetch zehr a gute zach. Very good." So I came out, and I tell him to pr- "Just, uh, stay by fabrangen, and you go, uh, later, later." I persuaded him, and he stayed, tzu sekvetcht. Then I asked him, "Tell me what happened. What happened that you became so red?" So he said, "After I asked all my questions, the Rebbe told me should learn every day in the morning a perik Tanya, and I should know Tanya is, is Primas Hatorah. You mustn't learn Tanya before Birkat Torah." Because he, he did not learn. And Saturday explain Tanya is Primas Hatorah, Rozeh le'ozeh, Ikkar Hatorah, Torah Chadosha, and says, "Mamish, he felt the Rebbe heard every word which you said, and the Rebbe repeated it." So he said, "Mamish ruach hakodesh." Hmm. "Mamish ruach hakodesh." Eventually he got married. And I made for him a shehakol berachos. We were very good friends then. In Montreal, he got married in Montreal. I asked

1:20:36 Speaker 1 the kitch- the cook in the kitchen make a, a cook start. I pay his moshes for, uh, pay his moshes for the fabrang, made on a shehakol berachos. Then he said, "Yitzchak," he says, "Listen, I want you to repeat what the Rebbe told you, that you should stay by the fabrangen to gut sekvetchen." I say, "Yes, my big in the Rebbe does, but as, as I said, it helped, it helped me a lot. I became at least close to the Rebbe." This is-

1:21:01 Speaker 3 Hmm

1:21:01 Speaker 1 ... all right? So again, um, what did, what, what, what the Rebbe, um, again, the Ruach HaKodesh, which the Rebbe repeated, and the Rebbe said, "Learn a perek Tanya, and Tanya is, is Rozai the Reiss."

1:21:20 Speaker 4 Was, is that, that's why you were so loyal to Lubavitch because of the Ruach HaKodesh?

1:21:25 Speaker 1 No, no, no, no.

1:21:26 Speaker 4 Or, or because-

1:21:27 Speaker 1 I was loyal to, to Lubavitch because I became a Lubavitcher just like you loyal to Lubavitch. I also became loyal.

1:21:32 Speaker 4 No, I was born, I was born-

1:21:34 Speaker 1 Yes

1:21:34 Speaker 4 ... I was born into a Lubavitcher family.

1:21:35 Speaker 1 Yes. You know what the Alt Rebbe says? The Rebbe says, "The biggest Hasidim were geborene Hasidim."

1:21:42 Speaker 4 Geborene Hasidim.

1:21:42 Speaker 1 "The Alt Rebbe didn't have one Hasid, a geborener or geborene."

1:21:47 Speaker 4 No, that, that's-

1:21:47 Speaker 1 "The geborene are better." I don't have himself.

1:21:50 Speaker 4 That's what I'm asking. That's what I'm asking.

1:21:52 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:21:52 Speaker 4 I'm, I'm asking at the time, did you at all f- did you at all feel that the, that the Lubavitch Rebbe had a different vision for the world?

1:22:00 Speaker 1 The Rebbe, I do the Tzadik HaDor, what's that Rebbe, Rosh Bnei Yisrael.

1:22:04 Speaker 4 Right.

1:22:05 Speaker 1 Every dirt is a Moshe Rabbeinu. This is Moshe. This, I became so.

1:22:09 Speaker 4 So you f- you felt that already at the time?

1:22:11 Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

1:22:14 Speaker 4 Hmm. And e- eventually, you, you moved here and you worked on the, on the siddur, yeah?

1:22:21 Speaker 1 The siddur, and the siddur also, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

1:22:26 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:22:28 Speaker 1 Let me tell you in conclusion-

1:22:31 Speaker 4 Sure

1:22:31 Speaker 1 ... another mefus to the Rebbe. Um, I don't know how old I was, 18, 19. I went to yechidas, and the Rebbe asks me if I put on Ramat Riv film. I said to the Rebbe, "No." "Why not?" "Because nobody puts on tefillin. Tell me, when did you start putting a gartel? When you start putting a sha- uh, uh, uh, a, those, a, a tallis? After the chasuna."

1:23:11 Speaker 4 Right.

1:23:11 Speaker 1 In those days, everybody put on a ga- also Ramat Riv film only after the chasuna.

1:23:17 Speaker 4 Right.

1:23:18 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe said, "What? Why not?" So he's asked the Rebbe, "Rebbe, Rebbe holds I should put on Ramat Riv film?" Said Rebbe, "Zicher." I come back to Montreal. As I told you before, I didn't have any money. So I tell Rabbi Gingold not my initiative, it was the Rebbe's, "Should put on Ramat Riv film." So Rabbi Gingold tells me, "Um, go..." There was a battemacher, his name was Schwartz, a ardent Satmar Hasid, a foe against Lubavitch. Go to... He's a battemacher. "Go order by pair of tefillin, and in the meantime I have a extra pair of tefillin, Rabbi Riv film. I'll give you my Rabbi Riv film tefillin." And all the people bought Rabbi Riv film. I went to him and, and order the tefillin. The Rebbe said to Rabbi Kramer he wants the bochurim in Montreal should also have exercise. Bochurim should have, have, have... Itam lut, Rambam says.

1:24:27 Speaker 4 Right.

1:24:27 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe, uh, arranged with the YMHA in Montreal, swimming and basketball in YMHA, and ping pong, all that. I, instead of going swimming or basketball, those, I went to him to see the progress of how the tefillin are being made. And he was mamash as a son in Lubavitch. He called the Rebbe a student, college student, a Zionist, Chabad, with a modern... As a gefell. So after, uh, and always spoke, and I said the Rebbe was a tzadik earlier and tzadik codesh. Always we... Every Sa- every Friday, as I wanted to see how the, the tefillin is made, and every had a sisuchim. One Friday comes to, when I come to him, says that, "Reb Nisen, I'm becoming Lubavitcher Hasid." "So what happened?" Give it a, "A Zionist, a college student." "Yes." So after mir, Reb Yolis, the Satmar Rebbe, the f- his Rebbe went to Toronto. All the Satmar went to Toronto from Montreal. But then my family is called a tish. You know, it's called a tish. So as if of a brangink, middle of the tish he says as follows. "Some of my talmidim last year went to Houston." So this go back 50, 60 odd, not like this now. Completely fry, apikursim. Not nothing, and only a Reform, wasn't Conservative, completely fry. "Went to Houston because the, uh, real estate was very good, business, and oil was very good, and became very successful. But they wanted to have Satmar shita. And so their parents sent every week a package Satmar

1:26:17 Speaker 1 shita. After a year, it was very difficult for them, so they came to the Satmar." This is what he says about the tish, which he repeats to me. He says they should s- he should send a shaliach to Houston. "They are going to provide him with parnasa very, very generously. Parnasa berevach. As long as he should have, they should have Satmar shita." So Satmar said, "What do you think? What did I do? What did I say? What was the reaction? I will not send because you need flesh. I should endanger the neshamah, the nefesh of my talmid. At the beginning, he have the till, the, the tzes, uh, the, the, the, the payos outside. Eventually put the payos behind. So apikursim will shiv him off the street. Eventually cut it and said the shtreimel until we go to m'dechi al dechi. So I will not endanger the neshamah of my talmid for you need flesh." This idol Ba'al Shem Tov, the Ba'al Shem does it. And not only that, the Talmidim don't become, the "" don't become kale. They bring him the horse of Ba'al Teshuvot. He says, "What the, the Ba'al Shem can do, I cannot do." Can you hear?

1:27:29 Speaker 4 Mm.

1:27:29 Speaker 1 The Satmar was

1:30:22 Speaker 4 Right.

1:30:22 Speaker 1 Also it turned you off.

1:30:24 Speaker 4 Right.

1:30:24 Speaker 1 For him, from their background, a rabbi goes with a modern hat is not... But after he changed his mind when the Ba'al Shem says.

1:30:31 Speaker 4 Mm.

1:30:32 Speaker 1 Okay?

1:30:33 Speaker 4 What, what, what would you say are you the most... Looking back after, after, this is already, what is it, 50, s- 50, uh, no.

1:30:43 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:30:44 Speaker 4 70 years from the time that you're just, that you're talking about now. It's 70 years already. What would you say is the most surprising thing looking back?

1:30:52 Speaker 1 Let me tell you.

1:30:53 Speaker 4 What are you most surprised by?

1:30:55 Speaker 1 The Rebbe, our Rebbe, had so many accomplishments. So many accomplishments.

1:31:20 Speaker 4 Mm.

1:31:23 Speaker 1 The It either grows or withers away. Lubavitch keeps on going. Even the Misnagdim, the Satmars, and Lakewood, the highest, highest respect for the, for the, for the Rebbe and for... Go to, to Ohel. Uh, always you find dort Satmar Hasidim, Bobov Hasidim, uh-

1:33:37 Speaker 4 But did, did you think this would happen back then when you were younger? Did you-

1:33:41 Speaker 1 No

1:33:41 Speaker 4 ... did you expect this to happen?

1:33:42 Speaker 1 No, no. Uh, y- y- you never know. You never know.

1:33:44 Speaker 4 What did you think, what did you think was going to happen?

1:33:48 Speaker 1 I know the Rebbe's abba, Moyshe, Rosh Yeshiva in Israel, and I hoped the Rebbe said, "Hagea zman gulaskem." Let me tell you, and I'd like to finish with this.

1:33:59 Speaker 4 Sure.

1:33:59 Speaker 1 When my oldest son, Eliezer, al avashalom, when he was three years old, uh, I took him into yechidas for op shere نش. The Rebbe asked him, "Do you know Shema Yisrael?" He says, "Yes." The Rebbe asked him, "Will you tell it to me? Will you say it?" "No." He said, "No, I won't say it." So the Rebbe's asking him, "If I give you a dollar, will you say it?" He said, "Yes." So the Rebbe says, "Say Shema Yisrael, I'm gonna give you a dollar." He said Shema... Uh, uh, he said Shema Yisrael, all the way to the... Not only Shema Yisrael, Hashem echad, Baruch Shem, all the way to the end, "Chсам tanuzot beshert uveserech ho-sherech." But the Rebbe noticed he didn't put his hand on his face. So the Rebbe started to speak me with important, "When you say Shema Yisrael, you put his hand on your face." And the Rebbe started to explain to me. Then the Rebbe stopped. The Rebbe says to me, says to me, "Kh'hadem tsu gezugt a dollar. Ve zugs tsu a kind af men haltn vort." The Rebbe apologized. He stopped speaking with me. "Men zugs al, men zugs, uh, uh, tsu, uh, a kind, men zugs uh, a kind af men haltn vort." Then he went up, up to his drawer and gave him a silver dollar, and we still have the silver dollar. What do I f- what do I say? Now, of course, uh, uh, Eliezer told him, asked him, uh. He says, "Yes, when

1:35:34 Speaker 1 you go shlofen in the morning, but during the daytime, it's yes." But anyways, what did the Rebbe say? "Ve zugs tsu a kind af men haltn vort." Yes? What did the Rebbe say? We are the kin of the Rebbe. We are the kin of the Rebbe. Hagea zman gulaskem. We are the last dor from G- from golus. The first dor from gola. Rebbe, Rebbe, Rebbe, dos tsu gezugt, dos mir gezugt. Er ve zugs hatz, uh, uh, er, ve zugs tsu, ve zags a kind af men haltn vort. Rebbe haltn vort. Chutz mir, Philip, kapay, how can I tell to the Rebbe? Rebbe once, uh, tell me, told me, "If you have a good ideas, send, uh, s- tell me." I should tell the Rebbe good ideas. But that's what he tell me. Rebbe have good idea. "Take haseg, hagea zman gulaskem, und Rebbe hat tsu gezugt, haltn vort." Okay?

1:36:23 Speaker 4 On that note, we, uh, yeah, a big hashvekah. Thank you very much again for, for making the time. Thank you to your grandson for arranging it, and, uh, appreciate it very much. Thank you.