Ep. 2 // "Am I a Lubavitcher?" with Eldad Drori

00:00 Speaker 1 I'm an outlier. I'm not exactly following the same path as everybody else. I'm different. I look different. There was a period of time where I was like, "No, I'm more Yemenite." But really I was like, "No, no, no. I'm a Lubavitcher. I'm a Hasid of the Rebbe." That was the struggle, though.

00:19 Speaker 2 Welcome to Homesick for Lubavitch, a podcast where we explore Lubavitch identity in the year two thousand and twenty-three. My name is Bentzi Hofstien, and I will be your host. Let's begin. Our guest tonight is, uh, Eldad Jwory, who is, uh, originally from Minnesota, but he will introduce himself, um, in a bit. Uh, I c-came to meet Eldad in, here in Bala Cynwyd in Philadelphia, and, uh, over the years, we've gotten to know each other and, uh, discuss different kinds of things. But especially the past year or so, uh, we've discussed a lot about being in the gym, the gym bro life-

01:05 Speaker 1 Absolutely

01:06 Speaker 2 ... um, that Eldad has quite a headstart over me. He's been doing this for many, many years and, uh, is at least to me, a role model of somebody who takes it very, very seriously, takes his health and fitness and strength very, very seriously-

01:20 Speaker 1 Mm

01:21 Speaker 2 ... but does it without compromising at all on his, um, identity and his priorities, uh, his Jewish priorities, his, his Hasidic priorities. Very, very proud of who he is in that regard and, uh, and the gym is just a-- and the strength is just a part of-

01:39 Speaker 1 Mm

01:39 Speaker 2 ... who he is.

01:39 Speaker 1 Yeah.

01:39 Speaker 2 And so that's why I felt this would be a great, uh, conversation to have as part, as part of the HFL podcast. Um, okay, so let's, let's begin with that. Uh, why don't you, uh, why don't you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit where you came from and where you come from and, and your story and how you-

01:56 Speaker 1 Right

01:56 Speaker 2 ... how you ended up here.

01:57 Speaker 1 Right. You know, whenever somebody asks you, "Oh, where are you from?" I'm like, "Well, where do you begin? Do I even know where I am?" That's the real that's the real question. Uh, but originally I am from Minnesota.

02:12 Speaker 2 Minnesota.

02:12 Speaker 1 I grew up in Minnesota, Saint Paul, Minnesota. Some people say S. Paul, Minnesota. I grew up in a family of, thank God, 10. I'm a Lubavitcher, what they call an FFB, From From Birth. Although no one ever thinks that I am. They always usually ask me, they're like, "Oh, when did you become religious?" 'Cause, uh, first of all, I don't look Ashkenazi. I'm Yemenite. Partially, you know, they say half Yemenite. I always say, "Which half?" You know, how do you cut it? Um, and so, you know. And then growing up in Lubavitch community, it's like, you know, it's like, wait, what do you mean? I'm not Lubavitch. Uh, I'm, I'm a Lubavitcher just like anybody else who went through the whole system. So yeah, so you wouldn't think that just right, right off the bat. Uh, and then, you know, I'm the second to oldest in my family. Thank God I got seven sisters and two brothers, and all are amazing people, each with their own individual and difficulties, and parents who are great. So, you know, it's like, "Where are you from?" I'm from my family, you know? Doesn't really matter where the place that I'm from 'cause I've lived in New York, I've lived in California, I've lived in South Africa, I've lived in Israel. Now I live in Pennsylvania. So that's kinda quick synopsis.

03:28 Speaker 2 But talk about growing-- You grew up in Minneapolis, right?

03:30 Speaker 1 Saint Paul, yeah.

03:31 Speaker 2 So-

03:32 Speaker 1 Minneapolis is the Litvish community. Saint Paul is the Lubavitch community.

03:36 Speaker 2 Yeah.

03:36 Speaker 1 Yeah.

03:36 Speaker 2 For all those who haven't been there, we're talking about two neighborhoods that, that-

03:40 Speaker 1 Thirty minutes away from each other.

03:41 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

03:41 Speaker 1 That's right.

03:42 Speaker 2 But, but it's-- But, but for those who do live there, that is a world of a difference.

03:46 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

03:46 Speaker 2 Almost offensive to confuse the two.

03:48 Speaker 1 Well, no, it's a very nice community, the Minneapolis community. It's just that it's like we got together like once a year-

03:54 Speaker 2 Right

03:54 Speaker 1 ... if anything, if that. So it really are two separate communities-

03:56 Speaker 2 Got it

03:57 Speaker 1 ... completely.

03:57 Speaker 2 Yeah.

03:57 Speaker 1 I-- Like when people say, "Oh, you're from Minnesota. Oh, you for sure know this person." I'm like, "Uh, are they from Minneapolis? 'Cause I don't really know that community."

04:04 Speaker 2 Right. Okay, so you're from-- You grew up in Saint Paul. Talk a little bit about growing up in Saint Paul, and, um, talk about like, what were, what were, what, what was it like to grow up as a Lubavitcher in Saint Paul?

04:17 Speaker 1 Hmm. I wouldn't know anything different. I went to cheder. Um, you know, uh, I grew up in Lubavitch community, so I-- This is, that was the environment that I was in all the time. I didn't really know anything else. You know, there was the, there was being Jewish and the Goyim. You know, that's how it kind of was. Uh, I, m-my family, we are of course Lubavitchers, although we're Yemenite Lubavitchers, so you know. I grew up-- And then my mother, she also became religious. My father always was religious, but he learned in more of like a, you know, Yeshivas Harav Kook in I- in Israel and Yemenite. So there was an eclectic mix, I guess you can say, although I didn't really know that much of a difference until I started, of course, getting older, and I started seeing, oh, there are the Shlokems kids, and then there's the rest of us. And it's like, wait a second, why is there the rest of us? We're all Lubavitchers. I have the same education as you. Uh, I've gone to the same schools as you. Why is there a distinction? So the, there-- I did grow up to some degree, I guess you can say, with a hierarchy in that sense. Um, and it bothered me, of course, growing up. We can discuss that if you-- I don't know if that's what we're-

05:33 Speaker 2 Yeah, go for it

05:33 Speaker 1 ... here to discuss. But-

05:34 Speaker 2 We're here for everything, man

05:35 Speaker 1 ... but, but-

05:35 Speaker 2 We're here for everything. We're not h- we're not here to, uh, vent and like-

05:39 Speaker 1 Yeah

05:39 Speaker 2 ... vent about stuff.

05:40 Speaker 1 No, I, I, I actually-

05:41 Speaker 2 But, but we're here to hear, you know, what, what, what was it like? If that's how you felt growing up, and that's part of your story, that's, that's-

05:47 Speaker 1 Well, I think part of a person's strength comes from figuring out what you are, who you are, and then embracing it, and then growing from there, l- allowing it to sprout. And for instance, like we mentioned in the beginning about Lubavitch, Lubavitch being like, I mean, it had all these stories about The roads that were, you know, dirt roads and working hard and davening for hours. That's not the reality that I grew up with, right? I grew up with, if anything, thinking about my Saba, who made his way to Eretz Israel from Yemen, where he was com-completely persecuted, but from age 12, he made his own way. Like-

06:25 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

06:25 Speaker 1 ... he came from a family of tzadikim.

06:27 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

06:27 Speaker 1 So I grew up with, like, that reality, and it's like, oh. I actually even pushed aside saying, "I'm not gonna learn Yiddish. I'm Yemenite."

06:34 Speaker 2 Mm.

06:34 Speaker 1 Now I kinda regret it a little bit, you know. I fake a couple of words just like the rest of us. Um, so but I don't have that necessarily connection to all the dirt roads and-

06:47 Speaker 2 Like, how did you fit into the Chabad community there? I mean, you're already-- You're, you're making a point that even growing up in Minneapolis, in a Chabad community, the fact that your father, um, was himself... You know, he, he came from a Yemenite family, and your mother also became religious herself. So you didn't, you didn't feel-- On one hand, you felt like you were part of the Chabad community, but on the other hand, you weren't the same as all the, let's say, shluchim's kids or-

07:12 Speaker 1 Yeah

07:13 Speaker 2 ... like the-

07:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, for sure, 'cause I looked, I looked different, and there was differences in the way we acted. You know, the, the, the influences that I grew up with wasn't per se... You know, I, my father would, I, you know, my father would be sitting at the table learning Navi. He wouldn't necessarily have a, you know, a Maimer in front of him.

07:34 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

07:34 Speaker 1 Even though, of course, I grew up with that, and that's what I do because, you know-

07:38 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

07:38 Speaker 1 ... I grew up in Lubavitch's, Lubavitch system. But it was a v-

07:41 Speaker 2 So-

07:41 Speaker 1 It was a very different feeling. And then I also grew up around secular Jews who didn't even think they were Jewish. Of course, they are 100% Jewish, 'cause my mother's side of the family, she's the only one who became religious.

07:52 Speaker 2 So your fa- your father, your father and mother, they, they, they considered themselves Chabad?

07:58 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

08:00 Speaker 2 What-

08:00 Speaker 1 Chabad Yemenite, that's how we kinda put it. But yeah, they consider themselves Lubavitch.

08:04 Speaker 2 Right. S-so the-- it was because they chose to send you and your s-siblings to Chabad that they considered themselves Chabad? Or it was, it started with them-

08:13 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

08:13 Speaker 2 ... and then went to you?

08:15 Speaker 1 I think the way that it worked was is this, they happened to be in a Lubavitch community.

08:19 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

08:20 Speaker 1 Like, if we were in Israel, I probably would have grown up more of, like, Yemenite-

08:25 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

08:25 Speaker 1 ... type of Sefardic, uh, you know. There-- I always say there's a difference. Of course there's a difference, but what I'm saying is, like, more of, like, Yeshivat Rav, you know, Yeshivat HaKotel kind of thing.

08:35 Speaker 2 Right.

08:35 Speaker 1 Like Yeshiva, Yeshiva Hesder, that kind of thing. Like, I would've gone to the Israeli military, which I almost didn't when I was 18 anyway. Um-

08:42 Speaker 2 That's how your father grew up? He-

08:44 Speaker 1 Yeah

08:44 Speaker 2 ... he grew up in Israel, went to the army.

08:46 Speaker 1 Exactly. He didn't do Yeshiva Hesder 'cause I don't think they had that at the time.

08:49 Speaker 2 Right.

08:49 Speaker 1 But yeah, he went to Yeshiva, and then he went to the military. And then after the military, he went to Minnesota to visit my uncle, who was learning psychology in the University of Minnesota, and then my uncle went back to Israel, and my father stayed. You know, he met my mother there, and they stayed. My mother was learning at Beis Chana at the time.

09:08 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

09:09 Speaker 1 Um, and so being in the Lubavitch community, they, like, became Lubavitch-

09:13 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

09:13 Speaker 1 ... in that sense-

09:14 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

09:14 Speaker 1 ... because they were there. My father was working for the Chabad House in the beginning. Before my father became a rabbi, he became a rabbi when, uh, when he was 40, actually. But before then, you know, he was first working for the Lubavitch House. You know, he was the Israeli fixing things, taking care of stuff. Um, you know, now, of course, he's a, he's, he's a Rav, and he does, uh, he works at the OU. So it was that, that was the reason why. But I grew up Lubavitch my whole life. You know, I don't, I don't know any- anything else. I mean, I do know s- Yemenite, but, you know, I went through the whole system, so to speak.

09:51 Speaker 2 But that's, but that's precisely what makes this whole, that's what makes this whole, um, conversation tick, at least to me, is because, like, you say you're Lubavitch, and you are Lubavitch, but then the question is, what does Lubavitch mean?

10:07 Speaker 1 Mm.

10:07 Speaker 2 Because we, we have this, you know, there's a concept of Lubavitch that's like, you know, the mud roads in Lubavitch or, or, uh, the 770 and, and, and, you know, s-sitting at farbrengen, all these different images that we kind of associate with, with Lubavitch. But in your case, Lubavitch is, um, Minnesota. It's a very American kind of, a very American kind of story. Your father's from Israel. Your mother is in, in Beis Chana. They meet there. Like, it's, it's, it's a, it's, it's, it's not a different version of Lubavitch necessarily that-

10:43 Speaker 1 Well, sort of. Sort of. Yeah, like, growing up, I grew around the Friedmans. I grew around the Grossbaums. I grew around Rabbi Zalmingold. I grew around, you know, all these Lubavitch names, and I was just one of the crowd. I didn't know there was a difference until I started getting older, so to speak, and I started, you know, like... The worst thing I did when I was younger, I was a, so to speak, a good boy.

11:07 Speaker 2 Right.

11:07 Speaker 1 The worst thing I did was I started trimming my beard. My, my cousins did it. I was like, "Okay, I'm doing it." And then I remember, doesn't matter, individually, it came to my-- My father didn't know it was bad, so to speak. I'm putting quotation marks. You know, I was learning in Yeshiva.

11:22 Speaker 2 That's my phone. Yeah.

11:24 Speaker 1 I was learning in Yesh- I was, uh, uh, I was, I was, yeah, I was learning. I would think I was just, I was 13, and I was starting to grow my beard. Yeah. And like, you know, I was, wanted to look good, but I was still, you know, I was a masmid.

11:37 Speaker 2 Right.

11:37 Speaker 1 And I remember there was somebody who came and said to my father, he's like, "You know, your son is making trouble. Uh, he's cutting his beard." It's like, ooh, that's such a big deal. And my father, you know, not knowing, so to speak, that... He was like, "Oh, that's maybe not a good thing to do." And then we used to get into, we had, like, fights, so to speak, with, in regards to that. No, I was 15. I wasn't 13. I was 15 when I started trimming. And so, but that was, like, the worst of it. But then at that point, that's where I started being like, "Wait a second. What's going on here? Why can't you be-" Different and still good. And that as soon as you start going off of the track, so to speak, but you're still a good Jew. I was, you know, y- y- you all of a sudden start becoming the bad kid, and I was never the bad kid, but it started to come out that way, you know?

12:28 Speaker 2 Well, the, the way I'm hearing it, and, you know, this isn't to go down the kind of the well-worn path of, of, you know, how do we, how do we deal with education, ki- boys that kind of wanna do things differently, and how do we discipline them, and what's the best way? Uh, that, I, that's not what I'm, that, that's not what I'm thinking about now. What I'm thinking about is what you really had here was, you know, like, you, you had, you had a path that for a while felt like it was your path. Like you're going down this path, like with all your classmates growing up in the school, and you're like, "Yeah, everything seems to be... Everything seems to feel right." Right? And w- my path, each of us have a path-

13:13 Speaker 1 Mm

13:13 Speaker 2 ... which, which is, which is a, which is a result of, um, choices that we make, but also the past that we're, that we're born into, our, our parents, our grandparents-

13:25 Speaker 1 Yeah

13:25 Speaker 2 ... our, our cust- our family's customs, the, the, the, the traditions and the values that our parents pass on to us, right?

13:34 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

13:34 Speaker 2 That, that's what shapes our path. Then, of course, we make choices that continues to shape that path. So when you're younger and you're, you're in a Chabad school, you're like, "Okay, I'm Chabad. I'm Lubavitch," whatever you called yourself, and you grow up with your friends, and everything seems to align. Everything seems to go together. But then at, as you get older, and now your beard's growing, and you have a family background, like you said before, you had cousins that were trimming, like, "I'll also trim. Like, what's the big deal?" Right? Suddenly, you realize that your path, the, the, the past that you're carrying, the past that's shaping you, is pushing you off in a different direction than all of your classmates that you thought were so similar to you all this time.

14:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. Although all-

14:16 Speaker 2 It's not so much re- It's not so much... In other words, it's not so much a question of rebellion and not listening to the rules. It's more a question of who are you? What does it mean for you to be Chabad? What does it mean for you to be who you are? The question starts becoming more complicated, right?

14:33 Speaker 1 The push, the push, the push of Chabad wasn't from my family, per se. My father, you know, if you look at him, he looks like Yemenite Lubavitcher, right? But it was never really like that aspect, that push. It was more from, that wasn't anything. It was more from myself, uh, from my background, my yeshiva background, and then my brothers probably is also more looking at me versus looking at my father in that regard. Of course, we got our Yiddishkeit, our inner Jewishness, of course, from my father. You know, he's a role model to look up to. But the Lubavitch aspect, it's not my father, right? Because he became Lubavitch coming in the Lubavitch community. It wasn't that he was, like, taken away by this idea of Lubavitchness, you know, whatever that means. Um, so, you know. Although I always have felt that I'm a Lubavitcher, and I know I'm a L- a, a Lubavitch. Somebody asks me, it's like, "No, I'm a Lubavitcher." There was a period of time where I was like, "No, I'm more Yemenite." But really, I was like, "No, no, no. I'm a Lubavitcher. I'm a Hasid of the Rebbe. I'm-"

15:40 Speaker 2 Okay. So, so that's what I wanted to ask you.

15:41 Speaker 1 Yeah.

15:41 Speaker 2 What does it mean for you to be a Lubavitcher? 'Cause clearly it's, it's not... You, you... I want you to flesh out a little bit, like-

15:47 Speaker 1 Mm

15:47 Speaker 2 ... your, your, your uncertainty of, "Am I a Lubavitcher or am I a Yemenite?"

15:52 Speaker 1 Right.

15:52 Speaker 2 "Who am I?"

15:53 Speaker 1 Yeah.

15:53 Speaker 2 And then why you decided to yourself, not to make anybody else happy, why you decided for yourself that calling yourself a Lubavitcher is, is a more accurate identity. Explain that, that, that, that, that, that.

16:05 Speaker 1 Hmm. So it, it was a struggle for many, many years, meaning I am a Lubavitcher, but I'm also a Yemenite. So being-- So growing up, of course, like we were saying, hearing the stories of these individuals who are from Russia and their, the struggles that they went through, I never fully connected with that. I connected with more of the Middle Eastern side, so to speak, from the way I look and from my own family background. So now how do I reconcile those two dichotomies? So being a Lubavitcher, for me, at the time, it was I'm connected to the Rebbe. The Rebbe is my shepherd, you know? He is the one who I follow, even though I'm not following, so to speak. Like, for instance, I was trimming my beard. How can I be a Hasid of the Rebbe and trim my beard? I still struggle with that. I still trim my beard. It's long, but I still fix it up a little bit, right? So somebody would look at me, they'd be like, "You're a Lubavitcher." I'm like, "Yeah, I'm a Lubavitcher." It's like, you know the famous story from the Ger Rebbe. I think it's, pretty sure it's the Ger Rebbe where they, uh, he's, the Ger Rebbe's speaking to some, some Jew. He's clean-shaven. And, uh, after he's done, "" says, "Who is this guy sitting next to you?" You know, "How could he be sitting next to you?" You know, "He's clean-shaven." And he says that, uh, you, you know the story.

17:29 Speaker 1 But he says, he says, "When he goes to Shamyim, they're gonna ask him, 'Reb Yid, where's your beard?' When you go to Shamyim, they're gonna say, 'Beard, where's your Yid?'"

17:39 Speaker 2 Hmm.

17:40 Speaker 1 So I remember hearing these kind of stories, and these are the things that I connected with, being like, "Okay, I'm an outlier. I'm not exactly following the same path as everybody else. I am not the son of a shliach, so to speak," although we all are shluchim. We all went on Friday to put tefillin on people and give out candles, you know? And I am a soldier of the Rebbe. Okay, so I'm not following the path. And then that was the struggle, though, at the same time. But, but, like, I'm not. I'm different. I look different. I don't have a similar family background. Um, you know, I'm not a, I'm not a Deitsch or, uh, or you know, or a, a Greenbaum or whatever you want to call it. You know? I'm-

18:26 Speaker 2 Greenbaums aren't Gesh, just so you know.

18:27 Speaker 1 Greenbaums are not Gesh. Okay. All right. We're good. That's right. I don't know. Just they came in afterwards.

18:32 Speaker 2 Apologies to any Greenbaums listening.

18:34 Speaker 1 I'm not an Afsin.

18:37 Speaker 2 We're also, we're also not Gesh.

18:38 Speaker 1 We're not Gesh.

18:38 Speaker 2 We're also not Gesh. I mean, on- only from the grandmother's side, but the name Afsin's not a Gesh name at all.

18:43 Speaker 1 Yeah, all right.

18:44 Speaker 2 My grand-grandfather was the first Chabad guy in his family.

18:46 Speaker 1 All right. All right. All right.

18:47 Speaker 2 Yeah.

18:47 Speaker 1 It's a grandfather, all right.

18:49 Speaker 2 Yeah.

18:50 Speaker 1 So-

18:51 Speaker 2 I got one generation on you.

18:52 Speaker 1 You got one. All right, good. There we go. So yeah, so I guess that was, that was-

18:57 Speaker 2 But, but I want, I want you to, I want you to expand on a line you said earlier, which is very, very interesting to me, um, especially that we're talking about Sonny Adolph Nissen. Um, you... That even if you're not following, you're still a follower. What does that mean?

19:15 Speaker 1 Uh, well, a, a real soldier, uh, I, I shouldn't say a real soldier. Generally, when you think about a soldier, is they listen to the dictates of their commander. The commander says jump, you jump. The commander says swim, you swim. Although there are some elite forces where the elite forces, they a- actually pose questions. "I don't know if I wanna swim. This may not be the proper time to swim. Okay, you're the commander, you say swim. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I have to think on my own." And this is what makes them... I'm not saying I'm an elite soldier, that's not what I'm saying at all, even though that's what's coming off. But there is an element of that. So I don't necessarily see it as-

20:05 Speaker 2 In other words, you're saying that you're like, you're like an IDF soldier, where you-- the whole id- idea of IDF is don't- ... like follow orders, but also question orders kinda thing. Like your allegiance. Is that what you're saying?

20:17 Speaker 1 Sort of. I, I'm, I recognize that a, a Yid shouldn't be cutting their beard, just like the says, Midrash, so you're not supposed to cut your beard. We'll give the beard as an example 'cause that's something that I struggled with, just like I struggled with for a while about tzitzit. Even though now, of course, I always wear tzitzit, and I wear tzitzit in the gym. There was a period where I didn't wear tzitzit in the gym. There was a period, and-

20:38 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

20:39 Speaker 1 ... and I struggled with it. Even when I wasn't doing it, I felt guilty not doing it.

20:44 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

20:44 Speaker 1 Now, I always wore a head covering or a yamulka, but tzitzit was always a struggle for me, until I finally been like, "How could I be a Hasid," that's really what it was, "and not wear tzitzit? How am I supposed to represent to the world strength and spirituality if I'm not doing it myself?" And that's really-

21:03 Speaker 2 Even, even, even though there's, there's plenty of reasons, like you say, you could make a very easy hetter not to wear tzitzit in the gym.

21:09 Speaker 1 100%. You don't have-

21:10 Speaker 2 I'm sweating. I'm sweating. It's-

21:11 Speaker 1 Sweating. Uh, you don't have dal the kanfeis. There's so many. You don't have four corners. Why do I need to wear it? You only need to. I can show you the place in Shulchan Aruch where it exactly says that only you have to have, you're wearing four corners. Absolutely.

21:23 Speaker 2 No, that's in general that we don't have to wear tzitzit.

21:25 Speaker 1 Yes.

21:25 Speaker 2 We look for reasons to wear tzitzit, but you... But I'm saying in the gym, you could say like it's similar like going to the pool. It's just like you're sweating.

21:31 Speaker 1 Sure.

21:31 Speaker 2 It's-

21:32 Speaker 1 Absolutely. You could make a-

21:32 Speaker 2 You have plenty... You're, uh, I don't even know if that's valid halachically or not.

21:35 Speaker 1 Probably not. It's not. But-

21:36 Speaker 2 But it's certainly something that you could've told yourself.

21:38 Speaker 1 Absolutely, and there was a period where I, I wasn't telling myself that. I just wasn't doing it.

21:44 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

21:45 Speaker 1 And, um, until I decided, like, "No, you have to represent. This is what you're doing." You know, if you're, if you're gonna have strength, I use it as like a, as like a springboard. If I have my physical strength, then I have my spiritual strength. To me, it's not enough just to have spiritual strength. And to me, it, it, it manifests itself on more of the external. And I have found through interactions with individuals, how people see me is, you know, everyone is a, so to speak, a shliach in their own sense and in their own, in their own you know, their own community, so to speak. Whatever that community is. And there are certain places that each individual can reach in the proper way, and I feel like if I'm going to be doing this, which I am going to be doing this, meaning I'm going to be working out. It's not like I'm not gonna work out. To me, it's a, it's a part of what I am. If I don't work out for a few days, I start feeling like not myself. You know? To me, it's like a, it's a meditation. It's a place where I can release by lifting extremely heavy.

23:04 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

23:05 Speaker 1 It's a zoning out aspect to some degree. But so if I'm going to be doing that, I'm also going to be representing the element of Jewish people can be this as well.

23:18 Speaker 2 So I wanna get back to, to the gym. That's obviously-

23:20 Speaker 1 Yeah

23:20 Speaker 2 ... one of the main reasons we came to speak tonight. But, um, I want you to finish the thought. So you, you, you, you said, you said with the beard, you were struggling with the beard of... On one hand, you were-

23:30 Speaker 1 Yes

23:31 Speaker 2 ... you, you realize that, you know, the Rebbe and the Rabbeim would've been against cutting the beard. So you didn't finish that. Then you went to tzitzit.

23:38 Speaker 1 I'll finish that thought. Yeah. So that, that thought-

23:40 Speaker 2 So, so in other words, I want you to, to explain and flesh out a little bit the line that you said earlier of being a follower even if you're not following.

23:49 Speaker 1 Yeah. So I'll answer that with a story.

23:53 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

23:53 Speaker 1 So to speak. A quick story.

23:54 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

23:55 Speaker 1 I get, I get-

23:56 Speaker 2 Go ahead.

23:57 Speaker 1 Basically, somebody once came to a Rav and said to this traveling Rav, go to village to village, and said he had a problem with a certain tosefta. Right? A certain part of the Gemara. And instead of answering him the problem in the Gemara, he gave him 10 other sources of tosefisim in order to look up.

24:16 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

24:16 Speaker 1 And he said, "Learn them, and then next time I come through, I'll answer them, or I'll, we'll, we'll talk." So when he came back through, he came back, and he said, "I learnt those 10 other tosefisim, but didn't answer my question. I'm left with more questions." So he answered him, and he said that that's the point. Even though you're left with a question, the Gemara still goes on. So I recognize that there are many times as a soldier, you don't necessarily... So there are sometimes things that you can't do right this instance. And so instead of not carrying on, you acknowledge it. You say, you recognize what the truth is. So I'll say this clearly, and I've always said this. I never make excuses about, you know, as a Levite, how can I be trimming my beard? As the years go by, my family makes jokes. They look at, like, all the wedding pictures, and my beard has gotten longer and longer and longer, even though it's fixed up, but it's gotten longer with the years. You know, it used to be much shorter, very-- it was very short, and now it's, you know, it's... If you're-you can't see me on video, but on, on, on the podcast, but it's long, but it's still fixed up. And so I never made excuses and said, "Halakhically, you're allowed to do it." You know, it's either... I, I have a whole Sefer, uh, of, of how you're able to cut your beard. You know, you see many

25:43 Speaker 1 Talmidi Chachamim, they shave their beards completely. As a Lubavitcher, we don't do that. So I've never said that it was okay, but I recognize it, I acknowledge it, and I recognize that it's a struggle. And not every struggle are you gonna win today.

25:57 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

25:58 Speaker 1 And that's okay. Just like in the gym, not every day are you gonna have your best lift. You're gonna have terrible lifts most of the time.

26:05 Speaker 3 So let's get to the-- let's, let's get to the gym, but let's not do it sideways. Let's get to it.

26:08 Speaker 1 We'll do it sideways. Okay.

26:09 Speaker 3 So, like, how-- Let-

26:10 Speaker 1 So that-- I hope that answers-

26:11 Speaker 3 Yeah

26:11 Speaker 1 ... a little bit.

26:12 Speaker 3 I thought, I thought that was great. I mean, that's, that's how you're thinking.

26:15 Speaker 1 So I'm a s- I'm a soldier. I re- and I write to the Rebbe in pan. I write to the Rebbe that I'm your Hasid, even though I recognize that I don't necessarily all the time look exactly what somebody would think a Hasid would look like.

26:29 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm. Very powerful. Um, okay, so let-let's go, let's get to the gym. Um, you know, I, I got-- I've, I've gotten to know you a bit better about the gym over the co- over the past year or so. Um, but why don't you talk a little bit about how, like, how you got into the gym, when you got into the gym.

26:51 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

26:51 Speaker 3 And, um, I also think it's important to point out that, like, you know, uh, today the gym life or the g- you know, the gym culture has become something that's a lot more widespread and mainstream, and a lot more people are into it, a lot more people know about it. A lot more people, a lot more people from all kinds of persuasions are more comfortable to be there, but you were into this well before it became that super popular.

27:17 Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

27:17 Speaker 3 All right. So, so why don't you talk a little bit about, like-

27:19 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

27:19 Speaker 3 ... how you got into it and what it was like at the time, you know, coming back to our general conversation, what, what, what was it feeling like being a Chabad kid in the gym?

27:29 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

27:29 Speaker 3 What was, what was that like?

27:31 Speaker 1 It's interesting. There are many different beginnings to it. One beginning was, ever since I was younger, my father would always be teaching me, and I'm putting quotation marks, "Krav Maga." You know? He, he would teach me, you know, self-defense moves when I was younger. And I remember when I went... So, you know, at that point I was like, "Oh, my father, he knows how to fight, and, you know, I know how to fight, and I'm being to-- I'm gonna be like him." My father, I remember in the mikvah, he used to... In today's society, it would be, be like, "Oh, what is this?" But I remember in the mikvah, he used to be like, you know, my father always was fit. And I remember one time somebody was like, "Eh, what's that?" And he would lift his arm, and he had like a... He's like, "That's a tennis ball stuck in there." You know? It's... 'Cause he had a big muscle, you know. My father jokes now, and he says, "I had a tennis ball, you have a melon." You know? But, uh, so I grew up with, like, that sense. You know, my father did-

28:29 Speaker 3 That you should be strong.

28:30 Speaker 1 Yeah, you should be strong. My father was al- he was into Krav Maga, you know, martial art, and I wouldn't say he worked out growing up. I didn't say that, but he was always fit. And like I said, we, you know, my father growing up, he used to be the one also to clean the mikvah, and, uh, I would go with him. And so we would go and go sometimes into, like, the ladies' mikvah, and we would clean. He would make sure the ladies' mikvah's taken care of, make sure that it's clean. You know, we'd also take, of course, take a dip. And I remember he would always be like, okay, being, like, fit, and I would always, like, look at him, and I'd be like: Wow, that's, that's a man. You know? So that's one aspect, that influence. Like, I have that image. Even though my father now, he's 67, he's not fit like that now, but that's how I always see my father.

29:20 Speaker 3 S-so you grew up with an image of strong masculinity?

29:23 Speaker 1 Sure. Absolutely. My father was a very strong masculine figure. Of course, in a very Adel way, actually. It's interesting. People think Yemenites are Sephardim. They're not. Yemenites are a lot more Adel. That, if you can use that term.

29:37 Speaker 3 You j- you just attacked the whole Sephardi-

29:39 Speaker 1 Yeah, well

29:40 Speaker 3 ... Sephardic community. All right.

29:43 Speaker 1 Hey, strength is good for-in all aspects.

29:46 Speaker 3 Okay.

29:46 Speaker 1 Uh, so, uh, so that was one aspect. Then when I went to Israel when I was nine years old, I went to Israel when I was nine, and I, you know, I remember clearly I was a very picky eater. And so I remember eating all the time lebens and pita with... I didn't like falafels. So I would eat pita and french fries. I'd stick the french fries into the pita. And I remember I came back overweight, like I remember clearly, and I was like that for a few years. And I remember growing up hearing, uh... You okay?

30:20 Speaker 3 Yeah.

30:20 Speaker 1 I remember growing up, like, hearing, you know, "You're, you're, you're husky, you're big." Or people would say, "You're big." And my mother would be like, "No, he's husky." I would have to shop in like the husky section, but also my father is not a big man. And like even from a young age, I was already almost his size. You know, it's, it's-- I've, I have, uh, I'm, you know, I've got my Russian genes, you know, a little more, a little bigger, even though, you know, I'm five nine. I'm not like huge. Um, so I remember when I was 12, my father put in the backyard, he put two ropes up. One rope had knots in it, and the other rope had no knots, and they went 25 feet in the air. We had some beautiful trees in our backyard. And I remember my sister, Merav, she's a shulchan now in San Diego. I remember-- And then he also put up a pull-up bar outside, like, on the, on the, um, jungle gym. And I remember Merav was, as soon as he hung it up, he put a tire on the one with the, with the knots in the rope, took 25 feet in the air, and there was one that he put, like, a swing, uh, with no knots. And she was able to climb up with her feet up the rope with knots, and she was able to do, like, two, three pull-ups. I couldn't do one pull-up, and I couldn't go up... I

31:37 Speaker 1 couldn't climb up the one with knots at all. I remember how, like, embarrassed I was, 'cause I'm like, "I'm the man," you know? "I'm the man." I was 12, for God's sake. And I remember then and there, I remember the day I decided, "That's it. I'm going on a diet." At 12. And, you know, my mother's an amazing baker, and I remember clearly that week she made, like, these cookies in, like, a, a bear shape or something. And I remember not eating the cookies 'cause I was on a diet. And however long that went, I started dieting, and I started working out. I started doing pull-ups every day or trying to do pull-ups. And I remember I looked at that rope, and I'm like, "I'm gonna climb up you." And I remember I used to, every night, I would go outside and try to climb the rope, just to grip and to hold it. And after, I don't know how long it was exactly. It was, it must have been a f- a year. I was able to do 10 pull-ups, give or take, and I could climb up the rope without knots and without my feet.

32:42 Speaker 3 Hmm.

32:43 Speaker 1 Yeah. It was, like, I was able to, like, climb up and just hold my feet in the air. Like, I remember I used to s- I was... So that's kinda like where it began. So, uh, it must have been before 13 'cause I was still in feder. 'Cause I remember in between classes, in between, you know, when, when, when the teacher went out of the classroom, I remember I used to say to my- I, I told myself, uh, yeah, I was 12. I told myself, "Every day you have to do 300 push-ups." And I think I did it every day. I'm like, "You have to do..." I, I don't know. I don't think I said at that time. I think when I was 15, I said, "I have to do 100 pull-ups a day." But at that time, from 12, I'm like, "Every day I have to do 300 push-ups." So I remember every morning when I would shower, I'd do like 30 push-ups. And then in between classes, when the teacher left the room, I would do like 20 push-ups. And I, I counted, and I did this, I, I'm not joking. At age 12, I did this every single day until it became like a habit. Every day I would do 300 push-ups, 100 pull-ups, and, uh, dips. I did a lot of dips. And as I-

33:41 Speaker 3 What do your classmates think about all this?

33:43 Speaker 1 I re- basically-

33:44 Speaker 3 'Cause I, 'cause I love the tension here of, like, the kid of the Temani, you know-

33:50 Speaker 1 Well, you have to understand, the class was very small

33:52 Speaker 3 ...Tzahal officer. Yeah, but still, you're this, you're, you're in Minneapolis, forgot, uh, sorry, Saint Paul, in Minnesota for like, that, that's America, Amer- uh, Midwest America, son of a Temani immigrant. You know, so you have like-

34:06 Speaker 1 Israeli, yeah

34:07 Speaker 3 ...Israeli Temani, you know, Tzahal officer-

34:10 Speaker 1 Mm

34:10 Speaker 3 ...you know, doing pull-ups. You can get up your dad's, you know, um, uh-

34:15 Speaker 1 Rope

34:15 Speaker 3 ...basically rope from his, uh, what is it called? The course that you have when you first joined the army.

34:21 Speaker 1 Oh, the training course?

34:22 Speaker 3 The training course.

34:22 Speaker 1 Yeah.

34:22 Speaker 3 Like, he has this, he has this training obstacle course in your backyard.

34:26 Speaker 1 Yeah.

34:26 Speaker 3 And, like, your classmates, you know, from Saint Paul, Minnesota, like, what i- like, what's going on? Like-

34:31 Speaker 1 I think they tho- saw it as normal from a-

34:33 Speaker 3 Yeah?

34:33 Speaker 1 At least I didn't care.

34:35 Speaker 3 You didn't care. Okay, fine.

34:36 Speaker 1 I, I didn't care. I remember, I remember like-

34:38 Speaker 3 You're too young to, you're too young to think about that yet.

34:38 Speaker 1 I, I di- yeah, I didn't care. I, I remember some of them used to look at me, but I don't think they looked at me any, like, odd. Like, I have very few classmates. I remember probably Shmulie Bendit would probably just, like, look. I, I have no idea what he thought. I never cared what he thought. I don't think he thought it was weird. You know, I was friends with him. He probably thought I was like, "Oh, that's what Eldad's doing. That's what... Oh, the teacher's out. Eldad's gonna do push-ups now."

34:57 Speaker 3 Right.

34:58 Speaker 1 Like, I ha- I actually-

34:59 Speaker 3 Right

34:59 Speaker 1 ...had a quota. So, so yeah, that was-

35:04 Speaker 3 And the discipline, that kind of discipline you've, you had in general, like when it came to studies and life in general-

35:10 Speaker 1 Even, yes

35:10 Speaker 3 ...you were a disciplined kid.

35:12 Speaker 1 I was very disciplined. Even from, even with studying, I was, I always wanted to study.

35:16 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

35:16 Speaker 1 Yes. I mean-

35:17 Speaker 3 So you, so it wasn't like discipline only for this. You were a disciplined kid, and when you decided to do this, you were disciplined about this too.

35:23 Speaker 1 I, I guess, I guess that would be accurate to say. Yeah. I mean, uh, the discipline is still, is still a part of my life. I mean, I know Eli Landau. He's a, uh, very, very close friend of mine. He's right now, like, the, uh, CEO of The OK. I did smiha with him in Israel, in Kfar Chabad. And he tells me this story, which it didn't mean much to me. I remember he said that my mother used to send me, like, baked goods sometimes from, from America. And I remember one time she said, oh, I don't know if she said all the time, but he said that, "You used to take out of your closet two cookies every morning. You had a whole bag of cookies. You didn't take more than two. You always took two cookies to have with your coffee when we learned Exodus." And I'm like, "Really?" I mean, that does sound like me. I still do the same thing. It's like you take two. You wouldn't take more, you wouldn't take less. So I guess discipline is definitely a very big part of what I am. So I can't take credit for that, so to speak.

36:18 Speaker 3 Uh, so, so we're not gonna go through the whole step-by-step of, of your, of y- your, uh, time at the gym, which is already a few decades-

36:27 Speaker 1 Yeah

36:27 Speaker 3 ...at this point.

36:28 Speaker 1 Yeah.

36:28 Speaker 3 But I do wanna ask, in line with the conversation we're having, you know, as you-- So, you know, there's just something very innocent and, and simple about, you know, this kid at home and in his classroom just doing these kind of, you know, what, what a boy might do, I guess. You know, maybe he's a little bit eccentric, the, the extent of the, of the discipline that you had.

36:50 Speaker 1 Mm.

36:50 Speaker 3 But, uh, but boys all kinds of stuff at that age. Like, it's no big deal. But what happens when you grow up, and you start going out into the world, and things are getting a little more complicated, and going to the gym is now at odds with, let's, uh, either being in yeshiva or going to the gym is, all right- ... Chabad people go to the gym, and like, that's not a place where you belong as a Chabad guy.

37:13 Speaker 1 Mm.

37:13 Speaker 3 Like, you don't belong there. Talk a little bit about what it was like. Like, skip to that step where-

37:18 Speaker 1 Yeah

37:18 Speaker 3 ... going to the gym is more a-

37:20 Speaker 1 So growing, so growing up, I went to Minnesota Yeshiva for a few, bunch of years with Rabbi Willum. And because I would sleep at home, there was no difficulty with that. I would work out at the JCC at night, so there was no issue there. And then when my first away yeshiva, I went to South Africa, and you wouldn't call that the most Hasidisha place. So they actually had a small little gym-

37:52 Speaker 3 Uh-huh

37:53 Speaker 1 ... in, in the yeshiva, like, in like some basement. Like now, if I probably go back and I look at it, I'd probably think it's like, like really? That's, that's... So I would work out there. So there was no-- There was nothing at odd in that regard. And then the yeshiva after South Africa, I guess you can say the yeshiva that made me to what I am today. Which I should reach out to them and start giving them some donations actually, because they really made me to what I am. It was a yeshiva in Israel, uh, Yeshivat HaBucharim. It's, it's time The rabbi said, "Don't change the name," even though there was one Bukhari. Uh, I did and safers in the yeshiva there. And they actually had a cheder kosher, right? They had a, a, uh, workout room where after we would be, after we would, you know, finish chasidus at night, it's 9:30, we just finished davening maariv, uh, everyone would go do their own thing, right? And in this cheder kosher, there was a judo mat that actually I used to wrestle with some, some guys over there. Um, I would do jujitsu, they would do judo. There was a weightlifting room in there, and there was also like a ping pong table, which most, most of the guys would be playing, you know, tennis in a, that table tennis. I never did that 'cause I was always the guy working out in the weights, and I was known as that, right? It

39:18 Speaker 1 was just, that's already part of my identity. 19, 20, 21, that was already part of who I am. So there was never at odds with that in that regard.

39:31 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

39:31 Speaker 1 Like, I don't think I'd be able to handle... Like, I used to, in, in yeshiva at night, if I was not there, I would be practicing martial arts outside myself. I'd be practicing my katas, I guess you can say. I used to do karate.

39:43 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

39:43 Speaker 1 So there was never an at odds with that in, in regard to the yeshivas I went to. Even though there were some yeshivas, like in Israel, how could you have-- We had a basketball court in, in, out-outside, and a lot of the yeshivas in Israel was even stricter than like in United States, right?

40:01 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

40:01 Speaker 1 How could you have a basketball court? This campus happened to have a bas- this campus happened to have a basketball court. So that was never an issue. So you could possibly say, because I grew up with that this is not bad, which it isn't bad, right? Anyone who says it's bad, it's just a, the, the, it's, it's not-- They're reflecting on a time... I, I think it causes more damage to say something that is actually very healthy and good for you is bad, because then if you do it, that makes you bad.

40:36 Speaker 3 So let's talk a little bit about, like, what, what does the gym, what does the gym mean to you? What, what does it, what, what does going to the gym mean to you?

40:45 Speaker 1 Um, every day it's sometime, majority of the time it's, uh, a struggle. It'll be like, "Ah, great," but I still want to do it.

40:54 Speaker 3 No, but you said that, that at, at, by the time you're 19, 20, that's part of who you are.

40:58 Speaker 1 Mm.

40:58 Speaker 3 Like, what, what do you mean by that? Like, what's part of who you are? Like, I mean, the gym on one hand, like, you know, people have so much, people have so much, um... It means, it, it means so much to people in their life. Like, it's like a big part of who they are. But then when you go into the room, it's, it's a bunch of, bunch of metal. Like, it's like, it's like on one hand it's the most exciting place in the world, on the other hand it's the most boring place in the world. Like, so-

41:23 Speaker 1 Right

41:23 Speaker 3 ... it's basically what you make out of it, is what I'm saying.

41:25 Speaker 1 The gym to me is a place where you look at something that is, seems impossible, and with time that impossible turns to possible, and then you can look at more. And that, they'd be like, "Okay, I'm ready to take on that next one." You know, people come to me and they say all the time, you know, I mean, this is again a podcast, you can't see what I'm lifting. You go on my Instagram, you can see.

41:55 Speaker 3 I'll tell everybody in a second. It's okay. But I'll ask you in a second.

41:58 Speaker 1 But people are like, "Wow, you can do that." You know, I can lift heavy weight and I can jump very high, and I can do certain things that most of the percentage of the world doesn't do. For sure in the Jewish world. And people come to me in the gym and they're like, you know, Jews and non-Jews alike. It's not like most of the, most of the time it's non-Jews. How can you do that? And I'm like, "You can do that too." It's just... And I like, for instance, I'll give you an example. There's a movement that I do, it's called the zercher. It's called the vul- full zer- zercher. It's a, it's a combination between a squat and a deadlift, and you're cradling it between your arms. All right?

42:35 Speaker 3 I think I've seen a video of you doing that.

42:38 Speaker 1 Yeah. Great movement, great for mobility. Gr- it's a, it, it, it's a overall strongman movement. It's kinda like, uh, lift- lifting an Atlas stone. It's a similar movement of lifting an Atlas stone, just with a bar. And people are like, "Wow, I can never do that." And as soon as I hear somebody say that, as soon as I hear somebody say, "I can't do that," automatically something snaps in me. I'm like, I say like, "No, of course you can do that if you wanted to do that." 'Cause if I can do it, I'm not anything more biologic. Like, I'm strong and I've built myself up. But if you want to do it, you can do it. And I, that's the ph- that's a philosophy that I- Take with me. And I think the gym enables you to-- an individual to harness that. And of course, there are certain things that you can't do, like I'll never be a Michael Jordan, okay? No matter how hard and how much I practice. I'll never be a Hafthor Bjornsson, you know? You know, Hafthor Bjorn-- You know, if people don't know, Hafthor Bjornsson has wo- won World's Strongest Man many, many times. It's like saying, uh, it's like saying, you know, you know, he's, he was The Mountain in, uh, Game of Thrones.

43:49 Speaker 3 What's he, like six foot eight, nine?

43:51 Speaker 1 He's six foot nine.

43:52 Speaker 3 Yeah, you're never-

43:53 Speaker 1 Four hundred and something pounds.

43:54 Speaker 3 You're never gonna be six foot nine.

43:55 Speaker 1 I'm never gonna be that, no matter how hard I try.

43:57 Speaker 3 Right.

43:57 Speaker 1 But that's not what I'm trying to be. I'm trying to be the five foot nine guy who could deadlift almost six hundred pounds.

44:04 Speaker 3 Right.

44:04 Speaker 1 This year it's gonna be Tishah B'Av Freakish Gains, it's gonna be... I'm at five hundred and n- five hundred and eighty.

44:09 Speaker 3 Amen. Amen, brother.

44:11 Speaker 1 Five pounds off.

44:13 Speaker 3 Five-

44:13 Speaker 1 So I'm five pounds off from six... From, from not six hundred pounds, six plates.

44:18 Speaker 3 Oh.

44:19 Speaker 1 I, I probably actually can do it now. I, I haven't test-

44:21 Speaker 3 Six plates.

44:21 Speaker 1 Six plates. I haven't tested out my, uh-

44:24 Speaker 3 All right

44:24 Speaker 1 ... my full, full, uh, my PR yet, my recent PR. I can do five fifteen for four times, so.

44:30 Speaker 3 You can do five eighty, you can't do five eighty-five?

44:33 Speaker 1 Sometimes that, those five-

44:34 Speaker 3 Really?

44:34 Speaker 1 ... extra pounds. Oh, yeah. When you're reaching your max, when you're reaching like your max lift-

44:40 Speaker 3 Oh

44:40 Speaker 1 ... everything has to be on.

44:40 Speaker 3 I mean, I know I feel that. I, I've felt that, but I'm lifting much slower.

44:44 Speaker 1 Right now. Like, you're right now lifting three fifteen, I think, for deadlift. What did you get?

44:48 Speaker 3 No, my max on, uh, on deadlifts is three thirty.

44:51 Speaker 1 Three thirty. Okay. And do you remember when it was two eighty-five?

44:55 Speaker 3 I remember when it was two twen- two thirty-five.

44:58 Speaker 1 Two thirty-five. All right.

44:59 Speaker 3 Two five, yeah.

44:59 Speaker 1 And, and, and what happened when you crossed the... What was the threshold? 'Cause there are thresholds that we ca- that we cross.

45:07 Speaker 3 I don't remember.

45:08 Speaker 1 But there was, there was a threshold, right?

45:10 Speaker 3 Yeah, there was a time where, where suddenly, like, lifting two plates is not, is not a big deal anymore.

45:17 Speaker 1 Right. Exactly. And God willing, soon three plates will not be.

45:21 Speaker 3 No, no, I, I know. I understand. I'm just saying for me, I understand why five pounds makes a difference.

45:25 Speaker 1 Yeah.

45:26 Speaker 3 But I didn't realize that, like, at that level, at that... 'Cause five pounds becomes, as a percentage, becomes less and less with, with, with-

45:33 Speaker 1 It does. But when you're two hundred pounds, five nine, you know, I'm not the-

45:38 Speaker 3 There's only-

45:38 Speaker 1 I'm not at my two hundred-

45:39 Speaker 3 You're pushing the limits.

45:39 Speaker 1 I'm pushing my limits, especially because now I've, I've been, I've been training a lot with jujitsu.

45:44 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

45:44 Speaker 1 Because I train a lot with jujitsu, it's taking away from my heavy lifting, which... So that, that, that's why I'm like-

45:50 Speaker 3 Appreciate it

45:51 Speaker 1 ... if I was, if I was completely focused on just lifting heavy strongman lifting, I for sure would be able to get an before a period of time. But it's, you know, I do other things, and you know, that's, that's, that's okay.

46:04 Speaker 3 So you said, you said a, a really, really beautiful line, which is that the gym is a place where you look at the impossible and you make it possible, which is something that resonates very, very much with me.

46:16 Speaker 1 Yes.

46:17 Speaker 3 Um, and you know, if, if I was to add to it, it would be that what you're saying is that the gym is essentially a great metaphor for life. It's a, it's almost a place where you visualize where... You know, we all, we all have our battles in life, whether it's, uh, you know, on, on all levels, you know, mental, spiritual, financial, personal-

46:39 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

46:39 Speaker 3 ... private, public. We all have our battles that we're fighting, and the gym is almost like a place where you get to visualize it and crystallize it in this one moment-

46:47 Speaker 1 That's exactly it

46:47 Speaker 3 ... in this one movement.

46:49 Speaker 1 That's exactly it. When people, people-

46:50 Speaker 3 And, and like, and like, okay, I'm just... I, I just have to be able to do this, which I can't do right now. I have to figure out a way how to get there, and that's going to help kind of unlock... It's a key that's gonna unlock something in my mind that tells me the same way I could do that here with this piece of metal, I could do it in life as well.

47:08 Speaker 1 One hundred percent. People ask me, like, "What are you training for?" That's usually the question I get, because the way I train is I'm training, it seems like I'm training for something, which I'm not. Um, I'm... Well, I say I'm training that if I can make it in here... This is what I always say: "If I can make it in here, I can make it out there."

47:28 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

47:29 Speaker 1 And that's what it is. This is like... This, if you can lift that extra piece a little two point five pounds, and I'm gonna add, you know, the, onto my bench, that extra ten pounds on each side, which is a lot per bench, by the way, if you're adding extra twenty pounds, uh, then-

47:46 Speaker 3 Yeah, tell me about it

47:47 Speaker 1 When I... Exactly. Exactly. Then as soon as I walk outside, I can have that relationship with that person in my life that's difficult. I can conquer that, that, that goal with studying that I need to study. I can get that sale, you know, even though I don't do sales, but I can imagine that being something.

48:10 Speaker 3 So how does that, how does that fit into your identity of... Your j- overall identity or more particularly your Chabad identity? Especially that, um... Okay, so you said that in yeshiva it was not so at odds, but I don't think until very recently, and even till today, I don't think people expect, and you touched on this earlier with the tzitzits, I don't think people expect the two to go together, being a Chabadnik and being a, a gym rat or being some powerlifter.

48:43 Speaker 1 Mm.

48:44 Speaker 3 You know, for all those listening, Eldad, Eldad's a powerlifter by every-

48:48 Speaker 1 Yeah

48:48 Speaker 3 By every definition of that word. What, what are you, you, you, you bench?

48:53 Speaker 1 My bench is fairly weak. My bench is, my bench is-

48:55 Speaker 3 I started off with the weakest. Well, let's start with the strongest.

48:56 Speaker 1 My bench is weak. My bench is a, at, today I did three thirty-five.

49:00 Speaker 3 Okay. Okay, fine.

49:01 Speaker 1 It's, it's, it's a weak bench.

49:01 Speaker 3 Very, very, very, very weak, folks. Very, very weak, folks. Um, um, what is that, like the top four percent of people?

49:08 Speaker 1 The guys who I lift with, the benches should be at a four oh five right now.

49:11 Speaker 3 Okay. And squat?

49:12 Speaker 1 But my, my squat is at five twenty.

49:15 Speaker 3 And your deadlift, you said is at five eighty.

49:16 Speaker 1 Five eighty. Yeah.

49:17 Speaker 3 Okay. Okay. So you're, you're a powerlifter. You're a powerlifter that could compete with, with, with, with very, very, uh, high-level athletes in that field. I don't know how many people would, would, would, would think of the word powerlifter to follow Chabad, like Chabad powerlifter.

49:34 Speaker 1 Mm.

49:34 Speaker 3 Those aren't two words that would go together. So, like, how do you see the two going together? Are they two separate parts of who you are? Like, I'm Chabadnik, as you described earlier, and that's one part of who I am, and then there's me in the gym being a powerlifter as a separate part of who I am? Or do they work together? Do they-

49:54 Speaker 1 I, I guess you can say the idea of b'gashmiyus and b'ruchnius really resonates with me. The idea... Like, I remember the story of Reish Lakish. Remember, you remember when I learned the story of Reish Lakish and Reb Yehonon, where it says that Re- Reish Lakish, when he was, when he, when he was once a head of the bandits, or whatever you wanna call it, he saw woman swimming in the, uh, lake, river, whatever it was. And it says with one leap, he was able to jump into the water. And, uh, he noticed it was a man, and then after he noticed it was a man, Rebbe, Rebbe Elchanan basically said to him that, "If you do teshuvah, if you think I'm something, you can marry my sister. And if you think I'm beautiful, you should see how beautiful she is," essentially. I'm paraphrasing the Gemara, of course. And then it says that after he, he accepted immediately upon himself that he's going to, you know, be a baal teshuvah, and it says he wasn't able to leap right out, right?

50:52 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

50:52 Speaker 1 Matrish kocho. His, his, his strength got weakened because he went into Yiddishkeit, so to speak. And so whenever I learnt that Gemara, I remember learning that Gemara, and I was like, "Nah, nah. This, this... No, this is, this is not right. This is something-- So this is a, the explanation, something's off with my understanding. This is how it's always translated. It doesn't really mean this." So I have-- don't have a great answer for that.

51:17 Speaker 4 I think the Gemara says even more explicitly somewhere that, like-

51:20 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

51:20 Speaker 4 ... Torah, like, weakens a person's-

51:22 Speaker 1 Right

51:22 Speaker 4 ... I guess it's Matash's Kohe or something. Yeah. Mateish's Kohe, like a-

51:25 Speaker 1 Mateish's Kohe. Yeah. Yeah. Matrish Kohe. Matech's, Mate- uh, Matech's Kohe.

51:29 Speaker 4 Matech's Kohe.

51:29 Speaker 1 Yeah. Makes your, makes your body weak.

51:31 Speaker 4 Yeah. And, and, and one, one, one could also just go to any Yeshiva and, and see it for themselves.

51:35 Speaker 1 And see it for themself. And so you could possibly say that I always would be like, "No, you can be..." You know, if you look at the stories in Navi, you look at Yehoshua, you look at the battles that-- I mean, these were warriors. Jewish people were warriors. They weren't, they weren't weaklings who sat down eating cholent on every Thursday night and, and, and, and, you know, if you look at pictures, and people would be like, "Oh, that's not what a Jew is." No. A Yid is supposed to be somebody who is extremely strong, and the nations don't wanna mess with you, and you serve Hashem internally, and you're kind to others. I... and, and I guess you can say I very much try to manifest that concept and that idea, that they don't have to be at odds with each other, just like, you know, Reish Lakish not being able to be strong. Maybe in those times. I'm not, you know-- And I still think Reish Lakish probably was extremely strong. I mean, we know, we, we, we know that it says that when the... I forget who the, the Tanayim were, but they were so big, but that's also they're saying they're fat, but they're also extremely strong. So I, I-- if anything, you can say I'm trying to manifest that idea, that begashmiyus and beruchniyus. If I can be strong begashmiyus, then beruchniyus I can be strong. And as soon as I start becoming physically weak, I also feel like I don't

52:57 Speaker 1 know if this is not my, this is not my identity.

53:00 Speaker 4 Mm.

53:00 Speaker 1 You know? The identity is very much tied with strength. People, you know, I remember somebody once asked me, and it's been like, "Well-

53:07 Speaker 4 Hmm

53:07 Speaker 1 ... what if you're, what if you're not, what if, God forbid, something were to happen?" W- I'd be like, "I think part of me would feel like is missing." God forbid. I hope that never, that never happens. Uh, you know, it's, it's like part of what we are, are our s- what we are externally. And what we are externally is a lot of times also showing what's internally.

53:27 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

53:28 Speaker 1 Just like a hair, right? What's the reason why we grow out our hairs? Because... Or our beards. It's that which is internal comes out and shows externally.

53:37 Speaker 4 I mean, what you're saying, in other words, is that, um, I th- the way I understand it is that you take, you take the, you take your body, and you take the physical part of who you are very, very seriously. That's a very real part of who you are, and therefore, um, you cannot have a s- a spiritual side of you that's in the abstract that is totally disconnected from that. Where like, "Oh, yeah, like I, I could, you know, I could be this weak person and, and be my spiritual self." No. Like, my spiritual self is intertwined with my physical self, which is, which is strong, and, and, and I'm working on the strength, and that, that feeds back into my spiritual self, which is also about strength and overcoming and discipline.

54:22 Speaker 1 Yes.

54:22 Speaker 4 And, and, and it has to be both. Like, it, it cannot be this abstract. I cannot separate the two, is what you're saying. I cannot separate-

54:29 Speaker 1 Yes

54:30 Speaker 4 ... the physical. Like, oh, that's, you know, either I have it or I don't have it, and then I have the spiritual, which is not dependent at all on where, where I am physically. Like, no, the two-- I-I'm a soul in a body.

54:40 Speaker 1 Yes.

54:40 Speaker 4 The two have, the two work in tandem.

54:42 Speaker 1 Yes.

54:43 Speaker 4 Yeah.

54:44 Speaker 1 Yeah. To me, it, it's when, it's when they both are feeling filled, that's when you're a whole individual. Now, that's to also... That's not to, that's not to belittle the fact that when you are very physically taken care of, in shape, it-- with that comes a lot of other challenges, especially in the gym, you know, uh, you know, with women in the gym. That's not like that's not a challenge. That, if anything, that, that, that adds part to the challenge. Um, so I'm not trying to belittle that. Like, when somebody takes care of themself, and they look good, that comes with a whole slew of other problems.

55:26 Speaker 4 You feel like that's the biggest challenge that, that, that arises from the gym? I mean, I, I un-- Like, that to me is, like, the low-hanging fruit. Like, okay, you can't go to the gym 'cause there are women there. Okay. I, I, I understand that, frankly. I understand why people would be uncomfortable or would say that it's wrong to go because of that. But I mean, in terms of, like, where the gym could lead, I mean, d-don't you feel like the-

55:46 Speaker 1 I think women are everywhere.

55:47 Speaker 4 Exactly.

55:47 Speaker 1 So if you, if you-

55:48 Speaker 4 Exactly

55:48 Speaker 1 ... if you, if you wanna have a problem with women being in the gym, you have a problem with women being in the grocery store.

55:52 Speaker 4 Yeah.

55:52 Speaker 1 You have women being, being, being outside.

55:54 Speaker 4 If anything in the gym, if anything in the gym, like the, the, the... What's the word? The, the, the quorum of the gym- ... kind of just the, the, the rules of the gym would dictate that you have to, that, like, you have to tr- tr- treat them with res- it-

56:10 Speaker 1 There is

56:10 Speaker 4 ... it's almost like-

56:10 Speaker 1 There, there's almost like an-

56:11 Speaker 4 You get more in trouble in other places where things are less, less formal and less, less public. The gym's a very pu- very public place.

56:17 Speaker 1 Standing in the... If a- most gym people know, if you're a gym person, if you're gonna be sitting there watching somebody work out, no matter whether if they're clad or if they're clothed in a certain way, and if you're there sitting watching, you're gonna be considered a creep.

56:33 Speaker 4 Right.

56:33 Speaker 1 So absolutely. If anything, you learn on how to not leer, how not to foc- You learn how to kinda stay focused within your space with being friendly and nice. That's interesting. Most gym environments, most gym environments, everyone is friendly.

56:49 Speaker 4 Right. That's very, very interesting.

56:51 Speaker 1 There are, of course, always-

56:52 Speaker 4 There's always a bad apple.

56:53 Speaker 1 Yeah.

56:55 Speaker 4 But I mean, I, I've always ascribed that to the fact that everybody there essentially kind of knows what you were saying earlier, which is I, I had a limit that I thought was a hard limit, which I overcame, which I, which I failed at for many, many... for, for, for a long time. Many, many attempts I failed, and I finally overcame it, and nothing came easy, and the guy next to me is going through the same thing.

57:22 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

57:23 Speaker 4 And like, there's no, there's no finish line here. There's no, there's no-

57:27 Speaker 1 That's right

57:28 Speaker 4 ... there's no, there's no haves and have-nots 'cause whoever has wants more.

57:32 Speaker 1 That's right.

57:32 Speaker 4 Uh, you know, so it seems to me that that's probably what's going on there. But, but I-- But going back to your earlier point that, like, the, the, the pitfalls of going to the gym to me would be less about, you know, the, let's say, the immodesty around you, which at this point I feel is... I don't feel like it's worse in the gym than it is everywhere else. Like-

57:54 Speaker 1 There's immodesty everywhere.

57:55 Speaker 4 Yeah. The people, the, the... Like, I mean, look, I, I haven't-- Maybe I'm convincing myself stuff, but I don't, I haven't seen people dress in the gym any worse than they're dressed in the supermarket to be honest with you.

58:06 Speaker 1 It's the same.

58:07 Speaker 4 It's the same thing. I, I understand that if you get too involved with other people, and you get too comfortable, and you f- you lose your internal boundaries, and you use the gym as an excuse to kind of blur your own boundaries, then it could lead to problems. But that's not-

58:21 Speaker 1 But you can do that anywhere.

58:22 Speaker 4 Exactly. No, but if you use the gym as like a, as an excuse, right? See, it's all about keeping boundaries. I feel like the bigger pitfall is, at least from like a religious perspective, is like taking your body too seriously and kinda getting too overly involved. You know, there's like where's the line of that healthy respect for the body and that healthy consideration for the body-

58:49 Speaker 1 Right

58:49 Speaker 4 ... and the becoming, you know, the bodybuilder, you know? That, you know, you wanna, you wanna be that, that guy who's-

58:56 Speaker 1 Well, this goes back to, like, the times of the Greeks, right?

58:59 Speaker 4 Right. Exactly.

58:59 Speaker 1 It was, like, kind of like the Greeks versus the y- the Jews.

59:02 Speaker 4 Right.

59:02 Speaker 1 That the Greeks, they focus on, of course, the physical aspect.

59:05 Speaker 4 Right.

59:05 Speaker 1 But I would, I would, I would argue and say that they were focusing on the body just as the body versus the body intertwined with s- the spiritual.

59:17 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

59:18 Speaker 1 And I, it's not like I am, like, being spiritual in the gym. I'm, I'm not that kind of individual at all, but they are two aspects of ourself. We have the neshamah-

59:27 Speaker 4 You don't have a, you don't have a beer for deadlift of kavana or something?

59:30 Speaker 1 No, exactly. I don't have a certain, a certain type of kavana right before I lift, and I focus on a certain alef right before I lift. Actually, one of my close friends, he, uh, one of my close friends actually listens to Yossi Jacobson w- the whole, his whole workout, and he, he works out for like two hours. Uh-

59:50 Speaker 4 That's funny

59:51 Speaker 1 ... it's Mark. Mark.

59:53 Speaker 4 Okay.

59:53 Speaker 1 He works out for two hours. And-

59:56 Speaker 4 That, that's why he can't deadlift more than 225-

59:57 Speaker 1 It, it... The name doesn't, the name doesn't-

59:58 Speaker 4 That's why, that's why he can't deadlift more than 225.

1:00:02 Speaker 1 Th- th- his name doesn't do him justice. He's a big Talmid Chaham guy.

1:00:06 Speaker 4 I got it.

1:00:06 Speaker 1 And, and, uh, but he, he says that he, his take, if you were to ask him, which we've had multiple covers, his take is, is that he can't find an excuse for working out other than if he's listening to Asher, and thus he can, thus he can-

1:00:20 Speaker 4 Interesting

1:00:20 Speaker 1 ... say why he can work out for two hours, 'cause he's listening to Asher. Which he really is, 'cause I hear the whole Asher on Friday night.

1:00:27 Speaker 4 All right. No, I know he does.

1:00:28 Speaker 1 Or a song.

1:00:28 Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah.

1:00:29 Speaker 1 Yeah. So everyone does have... You could to some degree say that everyone has their, their limit.

1:00:34 Speaker 4 But so you're saying earlier, you're not, you're not, you're not arguing that lifting is a spiritual thing for you. That's not what you're arguing.

1:00:42 Speaker 1 I'm, I'm not saying that I'm getting this amazing spiritual aspect to it. I'm saying as an individual who is made up of a guf and a neshamah, I have to feed the guf as well.

1:00:56 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:00:56 Speaker 1 And so Hillel did a favor to his body by eating. I do a favor to my body by working out.

1:01:02 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:01:03 Speaker 1 Hillel wouldn't be able to learn if he didn't eat. I can't learn if I can't work out.

1:01:11 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:01:12 Speaker 1 Does that put me on a much lower level? Most probably. And you know what? That's okay.

1:01:17 Speaker 4 You're, you're not Hillel. You're Albert.

1:01:19 Speaker 1 I'm not Hillel Zotcha. But th- that's, that's what I'm referring to in that aspect.

1:01:24 Speaker 4 I mean-

1:01:24 Speaker 1 And then, and then even, uh, and then taking it one step further, the one step further is then when people see me, they're like, "Oh, that's what a religious Jew looks like? No, no, no. Religious Jews are supposed to be overweight and don't take care of themselves, and they got a straggly beard that they never try to make themselves presentable."

1:01:42 Speaker 4 Like me. Like me.

1:01:43 Speaker 1 It's like, "No, you have a very nice beard." People take care of their beards.

1:01:46 Speaker 4 Thank you.

1:01:46 Speaker 1 You can-- There's, you know, you don't have to-

1:01:48 Speaker 4 What is straggly? For everybody who can't see. Go ahead.

1:01:50 Speaker 1 I'm saying my brother-in-law doesn't touch his beard, and he puts stuff in it. He makes it, makes sure it looks good, presentable. There are ways... People, for some reason, have an association as a religious Orthodox Jew. Forget about being a Lubavitcher. An Orthodox Jew is somebody who's overweight, doesn't take care of himself, and they wear white pants, uh, a white shirt and black pants. And it's like-

1:02:11 Speaker 4 I think a lot of Orthodox Jews think of themselves that way also. I don't think it's only from the outside. I think from the inside. I, I know I felt that way-

1:02:18 Speaker 1 Yes

1:02:18 Speaker 4 ... my whole life until two years ago. Is that like There are all these, let's say, for lack of a better word, Goyim in the gym working out, and then there's us who some of us are born muscular or just-

1:02:30 Speaker 1 Yes

1:02:30 Speaker 4 ... genetically better off in terms of h- you know, physique or, or strength. You know, like, there was always a, the one family I remember growing up, like, uh, the, the Zirkind family.

1:02:41 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:02:41 Speaker 4 'Cause they're known 'cause it w- it-- in 1770 by the Rebbe, there was the Zirkind family.

1:02:46 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:02:46 Speaker 4 They were the ones that would walk in front of the Rebbe during Tisha B'Av-

1:02:49 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:02:49 Speaker 4 ... to make the line.

1:02:49 Speaker 1 Clear the path. They're so big.

1:02:51 Speaker 4 Clear the path, and 'cause they were so str- apparently they were-

1:02:53 Speaker 1 Strong

1:02:53 Speaker 4 ... not just big, but they were, like, strong like-

1:02:54 Speaker 1 Yes

1:02:55 Speaker 4 ... ox.

1:02:55 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:02:56 Speaker 4 And it's like they're the, they're allowed to be strong 'cause they're born that way. Me, I was born very weak. Like, I never did Chag B growing up because I, like, I didn't feel strong enough to do Chag B. I was a, I was a weak kid.

1:03:08 Speaker 1 And I would even state, I would even go a step further, and some people would be like, "Wait a second. If I wanna look good, I don't know if I can be religious looking good, thus I'm not gonna be religious."

1:03:17 Speaker 4 Exactly.

1:03:18 Speaker 1 Like, you have to choose.

1:03:19 Speaker 4 Exactly. Exactly.

1:03:19 Speaker 1 And it's like, it's like, no, you don't have to choose. They're actually elements of the same. You can still be true as a, as a good Jew or a Hasidisha Jew, whichever one you wanna put it, however you wanna put it, and still live within the world.

1:03:36 Speaker 4 So you feel that that's part of why you go is because you, you feel like that's almost a mission of yours to kind of demonstrate that you can be both or that you should be both?

1:03:47 Speaker 1 Yes. It's like when I see people in the gym, young Jewish guys. I guess you can say now I'm not considered per se young, you know? I'm almost 41. People are like, "Oh, you're almost 41." It's like, "Yeah, I'm almost 41." And I see them taking off their yarmulke, you know, to look like the other people. I walk up to them and I'm like, I say to them, I'm like, "There are enough of those without a yarmulke who are strong. There aren't enough of us with the yarmulke who look strong. Represent."

1:04:20 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:04:20 Speaker 1 That's what I say. And there's, like, one guy in particular in the gym where I work out now. Very strong kid. He's 18 years old, and I see the struggle. You know, 18, I, I, I get it. I was in the same struggle. He's very strong. He's good-looking. He takes off his yarmulke. Sometimes he puts it on. Sometimes he takes it off. Sometimes he puts it on. That's his struggle. And I think that by him seeing another guy who's stronger than him, uh, and I'm not saying that as, like, showing off. I'm just saying that as somebody who's-

1:04:50 Speaker 4 You've been at it for longer. There-

1:04:52 Speaker 1 That's what I always tell him. I'm like, "You're gonna surpass me, actually," which he probably will if he continues, if he continues. Um, when you see somebody who's lifting well and still representing being a Jew, you can, to some degree, on a small element say that that's a shlichus.

1:05:11 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:05:12 Speaker 1 Even if I'm not, even if I'm not teaching him a tzedakah or something. You know what I mean? There's still an element of that. And if there's-- if we're living in the, in this world and you have that ability to influence, you should influence.

1:05:27 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:05:27 Speaker 1 There's, there's enough of them out there that are not doing the influencing.

1:05:32 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:05:32 Speaker 1 So there should be more of us who do that.

1:05:35 Speaker 4 No, it's a beautiful thought. It's a beautiful thought, um, because I, I, I'm also seeing it from the other side. Um, you know, I have a tendency being, being someone who makes films and kind of looks at interviews and tries to tie them in together, so sometimes I I overthink how the interview f- one part of it ties into the other. But, you know, the, you're talking about there's enough of us, there's enough of those who aren't Jewish or aren't religious who are in the gym doing their thing, but I see it also from the other side. There are enough Lubavitchers who are doing Lubavitch the way, the, the quote unquote "typical way of doing things." And you had the opportunity, being the son of a, um, Israeli Yemenite Sah- Sahal, um, veteran who showed you a, a example of masculine strength and in his own way kind of hinted to you or, or just by his presence-

1:06:37 Speaker 1 Just being

1:06:38 Speaker 4 ... just being. Well, with the rope that he hung up on the tree.

1:06:41 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:06:41 Speaker 4 It showed you that there was something to strive for, that there was something that you could, you could attack, something that you could grow into.

1:06:48 Speaker 1 Sure.

1:06:49 Speaker 4 You know, he, he, he set this path for you that most Chabad guys didn't have.

1:06:55 Speaker 1 Hmm.

1:06:56 Speaker 4 Right?

1:06:56 Speaker 1 Yeah. Sure.

1:06:56 Speaker 4 And, and, and so it's not only that there are enough not religious people or not Jewish people in the gym, there's also, there's enough Lubavitch people who aren't in the gym, right? And then there's you being in the gym and being that Lubavitcher who shows that you can do both or that maybe, or that at least maybe you could do both. Maybe that's another-

1:07:15 Speaker 1 Or if it's, or even taken-- It d- it doesn't have to even be in such a, in such a altruistic way or in such a... It could be like it's okay to be in the struggle.

1:07:25 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:07:25 Speaker 1 It's, it's okay to be struggling and to not necessarily have an answer right away, and you don't have to lose your identity as a Lubavitcher, as a Jewish person, as an Orthodox, or as your connection with God if y- there, if your outlet is towards something else. Like, you know, the famous thing that we used to always say in yeshiva was that not everything mutar you should have, right?

1:07:51 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:07:52 Speaker 1 Essentially. And that always to some degree bothers me. That, that, that line might, might work maybe in the dirt roads of Lubavitch, but we have other kinds of struggles. You know, we have, you know, we always talks about mesirat nefesh. We have mesirat haratzon, which is, which is, which to some degree is even harder than mesirat nefesh. And especially living in the society that we live today, there are challenges that maybe those Hasidim, they were working those, walking those dar- those, those dirt roads and sitting in y- in, in, in, in, in shul being able to daven for hours on end. Maybe they were running away from their family 'cause they didn't have any parnasah. Maybe they wanna be able to make it in the challenges that we have today. It's possible to... It's possible. I'm not, I'm not-

1:08:37 Speaker 4 We don't know.

1:08:38 Speaker 1 We don't know. My point is, is saying is that, is that-

1:08:41 Speaker 4 We can't-

1:08:41 Speaker 1 ... it's okay to have, to recognize the struggle.

1:08:44 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:08:45 Speaker 1 And for others to see that there is an Orthodox Jew doing something, that you don't have to not be religious or not represent being what a Jewish person is and not do. You can still be that and still do that.

1:09:02 Speaker 4 Yeah. I, I, I think so. I, I, I... That resonates very much with me. You know, uh, we started off, we started off tonight by asking a question like, what does it mean to be Chabad in 2023? And the answer is, um, it means what people make it to mean, essentially. And, you know, every person ultimately is going to, based on their past and based on their upbringing and, and their parents and the story of their lives, is going to shape what it means to be Chabad in their own way. And, you know, you certainly have laid a path for, for yourself, and for others, including myself to a degree, to see what it means to be, um, Chabad and, and, and, and very loyal to that identity, and loyal to that mission, while also being very, very, um, dedicated to the, to the, to the craft and, and to the, to the effort of, of, of, of lifting and, and investing in your strength and investing in your body. Uh, you've definitely, you've, you, you've definitely pushed it. You've pushed what it means to be Chabad in that direction.

1:10:18 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:10:18 Speaker 4 In that small direction.

1:10:20 Speaker 1 Hmm.

1:10:20 Speaker 4 And that's ultimately what each of us are going to do in some way or another.

1:10:24 Speaker 1 Yeah. Some will do it financially. You know, I always hear that for the, the businessmen, some, that they can enter the other places that can enter, right?

1:10:31 Speaker 4 Right.

1:10:31 Speaker 1 The famous, the fam- I don't remember who the rabbi was talking to, but it's like you can enter in some places that other people can't enter.

1:10:36 Speaker 4 Right.

1:10:36 Speaker 1 And each of us have a certain aspect of that. It's just don't, don't... I would say, I would, I would s- end off, so to speak, by saying don't trick yourself. Don't think that, oh, it's, that's okay. In the sense that, for instance, it's okay to cut your beard. No, it's not okay. Are you doing that? Yes. But it's, don't try to, don't try to say, "Ah, I'm in, I'm in the gym with women who are not dressed properly. It's okay." Like, well, no. It's, they're... But I'm not trying to tell them how to dress, but don't try to fool yourself and think that, oh, you're gonna be, you know, the tzadik and nothing can ever happen to you. It's like you have to set parameters for yourself, you know? Don't, uh, don't think that, "Oh, I'm gonna take off my yarmulke just now." No, everything can happen. You have to recognize the difficulties and the troubles, but at the same time being true to what you are.

1:11:33 Speaker 4 We're in uncharted... Look, we're in uncharted territory. At the end of the day, when you do something that isn't condoned or isn't familiar to your community's way of life, and isn't, isn't, isn't entirely comfortable or doesn't mesh comfortably with your, with your upbringing, you're always in uncharted territory, and there's always gonna be some kind of risk there, right? We don't know how it's gonna end.

1:12:00 Speaker 1 Hmm.

1:12:00 Speaker 4 Like, it, it, we don't know for sure that being in the gym is 100% the right place to be in.

1:12:06 Speaker 1 Sure.

1:12:06 Speaker 4 Right?

1:12:07 Speaker 1 Sure. Absolutely.

1:12:07 Speaker 4 But what you're saying is, is that, you know, you don't see a way where you can't put, put in that effort, where you can't, where you won't m-

1:12:18 Speaker 1 No

1:12:18 Speaker 4 ... where you won't go to the gym, and you feel like, you know, "I have to figure out a way. I have no choice but to figure out a way to make these work." And not just to make them work as two parallel universes that have nothing to do with each other, but to make it work as part of my identity and to allow my, my investment in my strength and my, and my physical side sh- uh, inform and, of course, strengthen my spiritual side. And then on the other hand, to let my spiritual side inform and strengthen my physical side.

1:12:53 Speaker 1 Sure. Yes. Absolutely. Follow the two peas in a pod.

1:12:57 Speaker 4 Anyway, it was a pleasure talking to you.

1:12:59 Speaker 1 Yeah, absolutely.

1:12:59 Speaker 4 I hope, uh, of course, we're gonna continue. We both, uh, daven in the same shul. But, uh, I definitely learned a lot tonight, um, more than I thought that I would. And, uh, yeah, thanks for-

1:13:09 Speaker 1 Thank you

1:13:09 Speaker 4 ... thanks for, thanks for-

1:13:10 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:13:10 Speaker 4 ... giving us the time. And, um-

1:13:13 Speaker 1 And God willing, this should be a very successful podcast.

1:13:16 Speaker 4 And God willing, you should hit six plates.

1:13:18 Speaker 1 That's right. Amen.

1:13:19 Speaker 4 Six plates.

1:13:20 Speaker 1 That's right.

1:13:20 Speaker 4 Six plates. Anyway, for all those who don't know what six plates are, it's, it's a heck of a lot of weight.

1:13:25 Speaker 1 It's 585 pounds.

1:13:26 Speaker 4 Yeah, but, you know, I- ... I have a f- you know, like, in a way, like, I, I think, at, at least, you know, I, I'm way newer to this than you are, 585 pounds is almost something that's, like, hard to comprehend when you ...

1:13:38 Speaker 1 It's a bit. It is, but-

1:13:39 Speaker 4 A heck of a lot of weight. Heck of a lot of weight just to lift.

1:13:41 Speaker 1 But there isn't... Yeah.

1:13:43 Speaker 4 Yeah, think about lifting, what is it, a quarter of a car?

1:13:45 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:13:45 Speaker 4 Whatever.

1:13:46 Speaker 1 Just about.

1:13:46 Speaker 4 Anyway, good luck on li- good luck on that.

1:13:48 Speaker 1 Good.

1:13:48 Speaker 4 And, uh, and once you hit that, I'm sure you're gonna have something else you wanna hit.

1:13:51 Speaker 1 That's true.

1:13:52 Speaker 4 Anyway, thank you very much.

1:13:54 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:13:54 Speaker 4 It's been a pleasure. The music for this podcast comes from the album Repentance Doors by Oren Sornot and Havahkar, and is used with their permission.