Ep. 12: Is the Old Way of Chinuch Working? with Rabbi Yossi Korik

00:00 Speaker 1 Chinuch is the foundation of Yiddishkeit, and it's a, it's a, it's a from the yesodots of the obligations of parents and teachers to raise the kids to be proper Yidden Chassidim. So to say that the Torah or Yiddishkeit doesn't give us all the resources that we need and everything, you know, a hundred percent to be matzliach and to be able to fulfill the shluchus in the most optimal way, the pashut, I think it's kefira. So it's-- we, we have to be able to be loyal to these ideas and, and the, the more that we connect with that, that we remain loyal, even when sometimes it seems that it's difficult or it's, you know, oh, it doesn't seem like it's, uh, mainstream, it's, uh, it's not the, the new way. I feel that the more we stay remain loyal, the more, the more bracha we see, the more hatzlacha we see.

00:53 Speaker 2 I'm Yossi Kamen. Welcome to Among Chassidim by Der Her, an ongoing farbrengen about life as a Chassid, our vibrant connection with the Rebbe, and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. How are you, Reb Yossi?

01:13 Speaker 1 Baruch Hashem. Baruch Hashem. How are you, Reb Yossi?

01:16 Speaker 2 Baruch Hashem, doing good. And, um, it's good to-- I see you have the whole, uh, Der Her library in back of you, Our Days and The Rebbe Will Find A Way. These are the important seforim that you have.

01:30 Speaker 1 Absolutely. Big fan. Big fan. Der Her is a very big priority in our life.

01:35 Speaker 2 Okay. Very good. It's, uh, mine too. So we have something-- Yeah, that, that's another thing in common. I don't know of the same level, but, uh, but you're, you're probably more than me.

01:48 Speaker 1 I don't know. Well, it'll be left to be seen.

01:51 Speaker 2 Okay. Um, you have something that, um, I understand is, uh, unique in your shluchus, and maybe we'll start off with that. I believe that, uh, besides, or besides or in addition or I don't, I don't know exactly where it's holding, but, um, besides the typical Chabad house, you're also at the forefront of, uh, of educational institution, a mosad chinuch. Is that, uh, is that right?

02:19 Speaker 1 Baruch Hashem. Yes, that's correct.

02:22 Speaker 2 Okay. So, uh, not every person that we talk to, I mean, you're not the first mechanuch on, uh, on the podcast, but, uh, not every person has that. You know, I think every, uh, Chassid is a mechanuch, and, uh, especially if you have physical children, uh, so it's at the forefront of everybody's mind. But if you're-- if you have your roshei veruba involved in it, I'm sure you have a lot, uh, more-- you think about it a lot more in a more strategical way than others.

02:56 Speaker 1 I, I would hope so. That's, uh, definitely the idea. And, um, you know, the background of that is when we moved out in shluchus now almost twenty years ago, Baruch Hashem, so we came with a typical small town Chabad house community in the suburb of Sacramento. No, uh, plans for any moises chinuch or anything of that sort. We started with what typically small Chabad houses start with, the little Hebrew school, the Tefillin club. Here and there tried to make a Shabbos minyan, Shabbos meals, Yomim Tovim, you know, regular women circles, regular things. And, you know, Baruch Hashem, we had our own children and started to have more children, and they're growing up, and we, we really wanted something proper for them for chinuch. So the, the, the options that were available at the time, we didn't-- we weren't fully satisfied, not because necessarily the option is not a good option, but we wanted more for our kids. And, uh, still though shtikel nishtalos had varim, but there was a few other young shluchim families that were in the area as well at the same time. So I took it upon myself. I started to teach my own kids, and other shluchim heard about it, so they decided, you know, "If you're already teaching also, maybe you can have my kids join in." So, like, uh, without planning, without, uh, being something that we prepared for or, or set out to do, before we knew it, uh, we had, we had a s-- I had a

04:34 Speaker 1 small class of about four or five boys, and, uh, we were learning. They're young kindergartners. Then we came-- There was another class that came in. My wife taught, and I taught, and with a little bit of time, we started to bring out girls to help to teach. And Baruch Hashem, from there, it evolved into a full-fledged moises chinuch that really at the core of it was originally for shluchim's kids, but eventually it developed into beyond that. We, we started to have some community families join. At first, it was some Frum families, Baal Teshuva, that, uh, living in the Sacramento community with some more established Chabad house over there, and the Rabbi, Rabbi and Rebbetzin, uh, Mendy Cohen, well known, very special shluchim. So under their, their community, they have some Baal Teshuva, now they're mekubavim, so they started to join in as well. And Baruch Hashem, since then as well, we were able to have a certain degree of hatslacha, still minimal, and it's something that we, we hope to be able to expand and to grow, having local community kids join in. And it's something that personally I feel very passionate about because if we really look back at the sichas of the Rebbe in the early years, and, you know, behalal, I mean, the, the, the, the theme never really leaves the Rebbe's sichas and farbrengens, chinuch is front and center in everything the Rebbe always- Spoke about and, and encouraged and pushed for, and, uh, was heavily in-involved in. Um, but especially

06:11 Speaker 1 in the early years, you see like the-there's a lot of talk about the concept of taking just regular kids and bringing them to Chinuch Al Taras Hakedosh. You know, we know that the early shluchim, the first, first shluchim that Rebbe sent out, really that was primarily their focus. There, there was the-- these schools, these day schools that were started in, in different communities in the United States and then also abroad, the shluchim in Morocco and, uh, other, other places where they went out. It was really a big focus or even if you could say the primary element of it was, was schools, was teaching kids. And, and the idea was to take regular kids, non-frum kids, and bring them into Moser Chinuch. It wasn't about making schools for Lubavitcher kids. Obviously, that's no less of a priority, but that wasn't so much necessarily what the Rebbe was addressing when he was sending the shluchim and the focus. And I think that there, there was certainly a significant hatslacha in the shluchim that, that were involved in that. And it seems that for whatever reason, over the, over the decades, that approach or that concept maybe has died down a little. Um, and, and I don't know the philosophical backgrounds to all of that, but I think that part of it is that Lubavitch itself started to grow, and in-- and, and that in itself became already a focus of its own to have Chinuch for Lubavitchers. So a lot of the communities that originally were

07:42 Speaker 1 just far-flung communities became centers for, for Lubavitcher, for Anash communities. And, and many of those schools became Anash schools, which is appropriate and, and what should be. And it's, it's hard to really balance between, you know, having a full-fledged Anash school and then bringing in non-frum kids into that environment. It doesn't, it doesn't necessarily work out so well. And I feel that in our situation where it's like, you know, uh, what's the, what's the lashon?

08:13 Speaker 2 Something like that.

08:14 Speaker 1 Y-y-where, where the fact that we're in a small community, and because we don't have a big full-fledged Anash community, so that gives us in a certain way an advantage that even though we're, we're-- we designed our school and we're catering it to a, a level that's appropriate for shluchim's kids, for Anash kids learning Chumash, Mishnahs, Gemara, you know, it's not watered down. The, the, the kids who are Baruch Hashem going through the, the Moser here, they're graduating eighth grade and ready to go into yeshiva or into high school, you know, the boys, the girls, and then they have the-- all the skills and, and the background that they need to be able to be matzliach as far as their learning capabilities. But because we're a small environment, it's easier and it's, it's more like realistic to be able to adapt, to be able to have a kid that, that has no background whatsoever, to somehow give him the support and the ability to, to mainstream. And-

09:11 Speaker 2 So you're sa- So I think you're saying that historically, I mean, this ti- this started, uh, by the Friediker Rebbe, and you're saying it continued in the Rebbe's CSO, so like Morocco and the, the early shlichas was-

09:22 Speaker 1 Hundred percent

09:23 Speaker 2 ... I mean, the, the best way to do a Afos Hamayanos and Afos Sayados is to mechanech children and make sure that every Jewish kid-- I mean, how many times did the Rebbe speak about that, uh, sedot, the taysen der kinder, these thousands of kids in New York, the Rebbe says that they're not-

09:39 Speaker 1 Right

09:39 Speaker 2 ... getting a Chinuch. This is like something that the Rebbe said all the years. And you're saying whatever reason, you're, you're saying just technically some of the, you know, the achit mimim and some of these older Lubavitch institutions turned into Anash schools because, you know, the communities change or may- maybe because of the hatslacha of the shlichas, that, you know, people are Baal Teshuva and things like that.

09:56 Speaker 1 Right.

09:56 Speaker 2 But you think in essence, this is an integral part of the work of, of, of, of the Rebbe and of Lubavitch, of Afos Sayados is the be- the best way to do that is with a school. That, that's what you're saying.

10:08 Speaker 1 A hundred percent. I mean, think, think about it for a second. The, the-- we know that the Rebbe spent time with kids in, in, in a disproportionate manner compared to any other Rebbe before, and bechalal any, you know, nosi beYisroel.

10:23 Speaker 2 I think Adei HaYom, yeah.

10:24 Speaker 1 Right. So davar yedua. But even the, the, the times the Rebbe spent with kids, the children's rallies, the Lag BaOmer parades, who, who were the kids that were there? Of course, there were Anash kids, but there was a big push, and there was a big, you know, effort to bring in the, the Haredi Shteiim kids and these non-frum kids. And the Rebbe spoke to them the same way he spoke to everybody else. The, the expectation, the-- it seems to me at least, you know, this is totally my, uh, I'm not the That that's the way it has to be or this way it is. But it seems to me that the Rebbe's expectation is that somehow we could take a regular Jewish kid off the street, and, and obviously it has to be properly thought through and, and organized in a way that it, that it makes sense, but be able to bring that kid and give him a full-fledged Chinuch. A Hebrew school is a beautiful thing. Don't get me wrong. It's a, it's an amazing thing. I think every shliach that, that's in a community should have a Hebrew school and, and has to be able to do everything possible to be able to bring a kid into Hebrew school. But let's be honest, how much can a Hebrew school affect? You're gonna maybe teach them how to read, teach them a few yesodous in Yiddishkeit, which is beautiful. It's amazing. I'm not, I'm not knocking it. But if you could take a

11:39 Speaker 1 kid, that same kid, and teach him Chumash, Mishnahs, and Gemara, and, and, and Mamish like, you know, give him full-fledged Yidishigheit Chinuch. It's, it's uncomparable.

11:52 Speaker 2 I think, I think we see this across the board. For example, camp, right? Gan Israel. That was established by the Rebbe in, in the Chaf's and the Yud's, whatever the Chaf's when it, when it, when it started

12:07 Speaker 1 The users started the camp

12:08 Speaker 2 The users, the users and the halves when it started in the beginning.

12:11 Speaker 1 Yeah

12:11 Speaker 2 I think a huge percentage of the kids were for sure not Lubavitch, but not even necessarily Frum, Frum, uh, homes.

12:19 Speaker 1 100%.

12:20 Speaker 2 And, uh, and, uh, that, that was, that was, that was the chinuch that they got. And I, I think like you're saying, just, just, just it happens organically that it turned into an Anash. I think like you're saying, the Lag BaOmer parades, uh, were full of, uh, people that, uh, full of kids that, uh, might have gone to public school, whether it's through-

12:38 Speaker 1 Right

12:38 Speaker 2 ... release time or some other thing. Yeah. So, and the fact that things shift-

12:42 Speaker 1 I mean, I, I, I don't know, I don't know the numbers. You know this information better than me because, you know, you... this is something that the Her has written about. But the-- w-with 10,000 kids, what's, what's like an appropriate number for a Lag BaOmer parade?

12:56 Speaker 2 I don't know, but, uh, it sounds right.

12:59 Speaker 1 How many Lubavitch kids were in, in Crown Heights at that time?

13:02 Speaker 2 For sure it was probably a minority-

13:04 Speaker 1 Maybe a-

13:04 Speaker 2 ... at those rallies

13:05 Speaker 1 ... maybe a thousand. I don't know.

13:06 Speaker 2 Yeah.

13:07 Speaker 1 And so who were these other kids? They, they, they were probably other Frum kids, but a lot, a big percentage were non-Frum kids.

13:15 Speaker 2 And I think also part of it was, um, that, uh, at that point, at least in New York, Lubavitch was taking kids also without tuition. I think that, uh, that, that, that's a part of-- that was part of the draw. I don't know how that works today.

13:28 Speaker 1 Right.

13:29 Speaker 2 I don't know if that works today or how that works today. But that, that was, uh... I, I, I know a few, quite a few stories and quite a few people that, uh, that's how they became Lubavitch Hasidim because they, uh, 'cause their, their parents got either cheaper or free tuition to, to camp or to, to, to Beth Ferdinand or what-whatever it was. And even if not, even if it's not someone that, uh, became a full-fledged Hasid but had, had that, that, that chinuch, you know, in, uh-

13:57 Speaker 1 100%.

13:59 Speaker 2 Very interesting. So this is, uh, so, so, so at this point, this is your iker shlichus.

14:05 Speaker 1 It's, it's, it's one of the ikrim. I mean, Baruch Hashem, we still have a, a full-fledged Chabad house community with, uh, you know, all the programs and shiurim and the men's groups and women's groups and, uh, Shabbosim and Yamim Tovim and Hebrew school as well, uh, camp, you know, what you have in a, in a regular community. Um, you know, the Fiadek, a small community. Today, I have to be careful how I use that term because Baruch Hashem, shlichas has expanded. When, when I moved out almost 20 years ago, what was considered a small community today is like Ir Ve'eim.

14:37 Speaker 2 Right.

14:37 Speaker 1 Um, but, uh-

14:39 Speaker 2 And 20 years before it was, it was the same, you know?

14:42 Speaker 1 Right. Um, no. Okay. I don't know. I don't know if 20 years before was the same because really, you know, from Gimel Tammuz things exploded and-

14:51 Speaker 2 Right

14:51 Speaker 1 ... and, uh, you know, there wasn't, there wasn't necessarily such a big difference.

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17:00 Speaker 1 I'm, I'm extremely grateful for this chosid. Like I said before, it wasn't something we, we set out to do. It wasn't something we planned for. Um, but it's definitely become front and center of the shlichus. And Baruch Hashem, you know, we, we've, we've been very, uh, fortunate in the Rebbe's berachos and kochos that, uh, we have now three younger light that live in the area. Uh, one lives mamish in our community, uh, Mishpacha. Him and his wife, uh, Rabbi Uriel and Vayilech Roman, they're completely devoted to the shlichus, to the chinuch. Um, they both teach full-time. And they-- we have two other families as well that, that, uh, teach in the school who have other shlichasim nearby. Small, you know, small shlichasim, but, but, uh, they, they spend, uh, a ve- a very big majority of their time teaching. So my role right now in the school is more in the administrative aspect. I'm the principal and the administrator taking care of the hanhala aspect of the school. I'm not as involved in the teaching itself. Um, and it's, it's, it's a tremendous beracha. It's a tremendous chosid. And, and I see personally in, in our, in our- Shlichas in the community, in our personal life, in every aspect that the berachos and the kochos and the, the, the... everything that comes in the chosuv of the chinuch, it's unbelievable.

18:24 Speaker 2 So let me ask you a question-

18:25 Speaker 1 And it's clear that it's definitely something the Rebbe wants.

18:28 Speaker 2 Okay. So let me ask you a question. What are the, um... Is there like a unique, you could say, challenge or maybe something that needs to be focused on today in chinuch, you know, more today than before?

18:45 Speaker 1 You mean bechor?

18:47 Speaker 2 In general, yeah. What, what-- Is there like, uh, something specific that you're, that you, you've realized over, over the years of being involved in, uh, in chinuch?

18:56 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. Um, I don't see myself as a professional expert mechanech that, in that sense. Um, but I, I do, I do find, and I'm, I'm sharing this, you know, from my own personal experience, um, with, with the small moitz of chinuch that we have and, and, you know, my own in-interactions, personal interactions in chinuch. I, I do feel very strongly that staying, eh, honest and, and, and, and, uh, connected to the yesodis of, of what has been the masorah of chinuch for l'dor l'dor is, is the best route. It's the best approach. That's the foolproof. We know this works. And, and the, the toitos of that, I think are, are the, the, the, the healthiest, the, the best, and the most direct. And obviously, it's a, it's a big challenge to be able to raise Chassidishe kids, and we need a tremendous amount of siatah dishmaya and berachos and kochas, and, uh, this very fine and, and beautiful Chassidim and people that not-- are not always zoche, and people that are not necessarily and are zoche. So, you know, it's not chas v'shalom to point, to say in any way, you know, "This is the way to do it. You do it. Do like this, and it's gonna come out like that." You know, it's not, uh, it's not a recipe book that you, you know, you bake your cake on these amount of degrees with these ingredients and, you know, muftacha, that's how it's gonna come out. But, but I do feel that the

20:37 Speaker 1 more that we remain honest and connected and, and, uh, loyal, I think that's the word, to, to, to the masorah of chinuch the way it's been l'dor l'doros, the better chances and, and the more beracha and hatzlacha we'll have. Um, you know, kimu van, there's, there's ch-changes in, in reality in different things, and things have to be understood and, and discussed to be able to see how it's applied in, you know, the current environment and so on. But, uh, a lot of these new modern fads and new ideas and new concepts, I personally don't, don't connect to them that much, and, and I don't see that... You know, it's trial and error, and we don't know where that's gonna go. And we have a masorah that we, we... Chinuch is the foundation of Yiddishkeit, and it's a, it's a, it's a... From the yesodis of the obligations of parents and teachers to raise the kids to be proper Yidden and Chassidim. So to say that the Torah or Yiddishkeit doesn't give us all the resources that we need and everything, you know, a hundred percent to be matzliach and to be able to fulfill the shlichas in the most optimal way, the prashut, I think it's kefira. So it's-- We, we, we have to be able to be loyal to these ideas. And, and the, the more that we connect with that, that we remain loyal, even when sometimes it seems that it's difficult or it's, you know, oh, it doesn't seem like it's, uh,

22:05 Speaker 1 mainstream, it's the, it's not the, the new way, I feel that the more we say remain loyal, the more, the more beracha we see, the more hatzlacha we see.

22:15 Speaker 2 What's an example of this? Say...

22:20 Speaker 1 What? A specific example? I mean, I think there's, there's, uh, you know, many, many things in, in, in the, you know, the context of, uh... You know, I'll take, I'll take an example that's maybe not as, uh, um, extreme, if we wanna say. I mean, it could be other people may see it as extreme in different ways. But this is something the Rebbe spoke about himself. And, and, um, we have the aspect of, of how, what priorities do we set in the chinuch as far as limudei chol and, you know, things, uh, things in that way. So I'm not, you know, getting into the specifics to which subjects and, uh, talas hakes, whatever it is. You know, I think there's, there's a bit of, of, uh, opportunity for every community, every situation to be able, you know, like, uh, define themselves and understand. But I think that the more that we take the Rebbe's words seriously and, and, you know, kipsutam, the more we see the hatzlacha. And a lot of people, even among Anash, we have concerns about what about a tachlis, what about a parnasah, what about, you know, what's gonna be with the future? And this all really boils down, down back to the idea of bitachon, that we believe, that we understand that everything that we have comes from the Aibishter. And when we follow the Aibishter's way, that's the, that's the best, you know, that kei hayenu v'reichameinu. This is the, the best way. The, the Torah is, society, and

25:16 Speaker 1 people are open to listen to this idea. But I explained to people is that Chinuch is not about just teaching subjects. It's not about amassing knowledge. Knowledge you can learn any time. Chinuch is about the Yesodis, Emunah, and Yiras Shamayim. I recently came, came across a Sikha, I don't remember the exact source, so forgive me that I'm not, uh, giving you the exact source. But recently, I came across a Sikha. The Rebbe says there that Amal, it, it used to be that the, the Chinuch in the schools was primarily to teach Pashet information, Chumash, Mishnah, Gemara. You had to know Vimilederent, you had to know how to learn and know what to learn and information. And Yiras Shamayim, you would learn at home. That's how it was Amal. So today, it's not necessarily reliable or it's not av-always available to learn Yiras Shamayim at home. So therefore, it became now the responsibility of the Moses Chinuch to teach Yiras Shamayim. And the Rebbe says, not only as a side thing, also Yiras Shamayim, but that becomes the Iker. That's the Iker Chinuch of the Moses to teach Yiras Shamayim. And Chochmah, the information, you know, Chochmah, when I don't talking about Chochmah Sometz HaElok, I'm talking about Chochmah of Torah.

26:28 Speaker 3 Torah.

26:28 Speaker 1 The, the information of Torah, if you don't get to as much as you wanted to, it's okay because you can always make it up later on. But the Yesod of Yiras Shamayim, it's not always easy to, to get back if you didn't get it as a child, if you didn't have it, the Yesod is right there from the beginning. It's connected to the famous, uh, idea that says, "Chochmah bagoyim taamin, Torah bagoyim al taamin." So the Rebbe says basically the Torah is Yiras Shamayim, and today the responsibility of the Moses Chinuch is to teach Torah, to teach Yiras Shamayim. And, and, and if we respect that, if we recognize that even for ourselves, not just how we talk to a fa- a, a non-frum family who potentially is, is, uh, gonna come join a Moses Chinuch, but even for our own selves. What are the-- what are our values? Sometimes you, you, you hear from parents, you know, even things like, "Oh, how many blat Gemara the kids get to learn this year? And then I, I-- Is it-- And what level is it? The Metsuyim or Nishmatzuyim? And I'm not chas v'Shalom, I'm not Echmach Nishab. I'm not undermining the importance of pushing children and g- encouraging them to, to be Matzliach and to learn more. And there's, there's Baruch Hashem, many kids who are very Mochser, they're very capable. They could, they could-- And they need to be pushed because if they're not, that's-- it's-- side, it's a waste and side, they also

27:43 Speaker 1 start to get bored, and they get involved in other things. So it's important, but that's not the priority. How do we measure the success of a, of a, of a Shnas Alimudim is not based on how many blat Gemara they covered, and if they know more of it Bal Peh or less of it Bal Peh. That's all very important, but I think the most fundamental Hatzlacha of a, of a Shnas Alimudim is to see have the-- been instilled real values of Yiras Shamayim in the kids. And, and, you know, the Yiras Shamayim is, is, is expressed in every aspect. Vimedavint, uh, in, in-- and how they, they have Anhagas between each other. The, the, the, the-- how, how they have Avas Isro, um, you know, the respect for how they learn Torah. All of these things is, is aspects of Yiras Shamayim. And of course, as Hasidim, Hiskashas is part of Yiras Shamayim. It's, it's an Edelkeit. Uh, that, that you, you instill the values of Hiskashas in the children, that's, that's the most tangible Yiras Shamayim because it's something that, you know, is much more relatable to us. And I, I hope I'm not, uh, you know, saying things here that, uh, sound borderline , I don't know. But I think that our, our, our Hiskashas to the Rebbe is, is, is, is a representation of our connection to the Aiblishte.

28:57 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm. Um, maybe this, um, this theme that you mentioned that the Rebbe says that, um, Beis Chinuch is not just about what you learn, it's about the environment. I don't know which Sikha you're referring to, but this is a theme that I've seen across, uh, I guess, Kaddish. There's many letters from the Rebbe to this effect. And, um, I mean, it's 100%, and that's why there has to be room in every Mesivta Chinuch for all types of kids, even academically, right? Even if, uh, if a child is, uh... That's you, you talk about the Metsuyim. But what about if a child's not a Metsuyim, but he needs that Chinuch environment? And I, I imagine the same theme applies later on as well. You know, in Yeshiva, for sure, when you're, when you're older Bachar, older girl, you're being-- that's when you're m-molded. Um, I think with little kids, people are, are more alike. When they get older, they start developing into their own character. I mean, it's something that, uh, th-th-there may be someone that doesn't excel academically, but, um, they're benefiting tremendously from the, from the, from the Ave, from the atmosphere of, of the Mesivta Chinuch that they're in. And that's as important or more important 'cause that's who they are. That, that's what shapes who they are, right?

30:15 Speaker 1 A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And, and I, and I think that, you know, a lot of the-- a lot of these things that you're, you're talking about in the, in the world of the Mesivtas and in the high schools, and that's definitely not, uh, an area that I'm personally involved in. I have my own children, Baruch Hashem, but not, uh, in, in, in managing a Moses. And it's in its own-- It has its own set of challenges and things, so it's definitely not my place to comment on that. But I do believe that a lot of the symptoms, if you wanna say, of the challenges and situations that can develop and become manifest in a more greater and, and bigger way, like you described, when it comes to going into the Mesivtas and in the high schools, is really values and things that start in the school, in, in the younger, in the younger age. I'll give you another example that you asked me for, for an example. You have the concept of Mashmas and Kabbalah sale. Today, there's a notion in the modern world that you have to talk to your children, you have to listen to their opinion, and you, you, you don't, you know, come from the top down. Everything has emes, everything has value, and everything has truth. So, you know, I'm not, uh, negating the idea. In other words, it's not a boot camp, and it's not the idea of, of, uh, uh, you know, do as I say

31:27 Speaker 1 or else. But the value, the concept of mashmaas, that a child needs to know that, yeah, you have an opinion, and yes, you have desires, and you have, uh, things you wanna do. You do wanna do it, you don't wanna do it, but that's secondary. The first yesod is the Ribono shel Olam, and we do what Ribono shel Olam says. And that's something, you know, that, that a child needs to know, and it needs to be ingrained in, in their consciousness from, from the ground up, you know, from the young age up. Take-- If you have, for example, you know, I'm, I'm just giving this as, as a theoretical example 'cause I'm not involved. I don't know for sure. But if you have a bachur that maybe is not a mosher in learning, and it's hard, you know, segat teminisht, but he want-- he's, he has lachluchis of Chassidishkeit, and he wants to be in a proper mesivta, and he wants to be in the avir, the fabringens, and the mevtzoim, and fine with the... But if he has the, the, the, the yesod of mashmaas and kabbalas ol. So maybe he doesn't learn so much, but he comes to the sdarim, and he participates, and he sits by davening. I don't think there's gonna be any mesivta that's gonna kick out a bachur like that. Even if he's not learning, he's not passing the test. He maybe sits and talks the whole seudah. I don't think-- It, it could be I'm wrong, but I

32:46 Speaker 1 don't think any mesivta is gonna kick out a guy like that. But if a guy, silent nisht, and he's disruptive, and he's not showing up, I'm not here to defend the moises or not in one way or another, and it's not-- I'm not involved in that degree, but I can only imagine that that creates more of a challenge. So if, if the child from the youth is ingrained with this value, you know, that's, uh, that's, that, that, that's the way it should be. Uh, we-- I once had, uh, an incident with, uh, one of our talmidim in the school. So, so there was-- There wa-- I was walking down the hallway, and I saw a talmid was standing outside the class. So I said to him, "Why aren't you in class?" And he said, "Because, uh, I do- I don't, I don't wanna learn. I don't wanna, I don't wanna learn what they learn in class." "So what are they learning?" "Learning math." He said, "I don't wanna learn math." "Okay. So what do you wanna do?" He said, "I don't wanna do, I don't wanna do something else. I don't wanna do anything. I don't wanna go in. I don't wanna learn." I said to him, "You don't wanna learn it?" So he said, "No." So I said, "Wow, that's really, really amazing." He said, "What do you mean it's amazing?" He looks at me, "What do you mean?" I said, "I think you have an amazing opportunity." He said, "Well, what opportunity do

33:55 Speaker 1 I have?" I said, "You have an opportunity now to go and learn something you don't wanna learn just because that's what the Seder is right now. That's what the Ribono shel Olam wants you to do. Right now, the Ribono shel Olam wants you to go and learn this math. So if you wanna learn it, that's great. That's beautiful. Then you're learning it because you want to. Maybe you're also doing it because that's what you're supposed to, but what you want to. But you know how happy the Ribono shel Olam becomes when you do something that you're supposed to do when you don't wanna do it? He's much happier then than if you do it because you want to do it. So because you don't wanna do it, now you have a huge opportunity. If you go in the class now and sit down and do your math work, the Ribono shel Olam is gonna be smiling like you've never seen before." He looks at me, "Really?" I said, "Absolutely." He ran into class, he went and learned. I think that if a kid goes out of a shnas alimudim with such a value, I don't care how much Gemara he learned. I don't know how much Chumash, Mishnah, he's sichas. I think if, if, if such a concept is successfully ingrained in the mind or the heart of a child, I think it's the most successful shnas alimudim you can have. These values, this, this-- these are the things that are gonna help this person

35:07 Speaker 1 when he's a bachur in yeshiva, when he's a yungerman in his own mishpacha, and when he's a shliach, a businessman, whatever he is. These are the values that the world doesn't have today. The concept that a person is, is given over, committed to doing something because that's what you're supposed to do. This is who you are. These are the values. And, and if you look a lot of the Rebbe's responses and sichas and things, even when people-- the Rebbe responds to people, dilemmas, and challenges, oftentimes it's, it's kind of this idea. The Rebbe shifts the perspective. The person is saying, you know, "I don't like it. It's-- I'm in pain. It hurts. I'm upset," and this. And the Rebbe, instead of like dealing with the actual emotion that the person's having, he just shifts the view and, and, and essentially takes him out of himself and brings him into recognizing the, the shlichus, the achrayus, the opportunity, the zchus that he has, and then say, "Of kehin." You know, you're like in a different place now. Th-you can't get that in the world. The world doesn't have that. It doesn't exist.

36:06 Speaker 3 And just, just, just the, just the opposite. I think the world today-

36:09 Speaker 1 Exactly. The world pushes you down

36:10 Speaker 3 ... te-te-tells you how you're feeling, and therefore don't do what you don't wanna do, and don't do something that makes you uncomfortable, and, uh, and, um, raises the generation or generations that way. And lav davka are the results so pretty.

36:27 Speaker 1 A hundred percent. I think you're saying it very politely, but I would say davka lav.

36:32 Speaker 3 No, it's actually an interesting concept because, um, you, you hear the way people talk about in how to deal with hardships. I mean, to me it was always what, what, what people are, um, talking about doesn't seem in line with, I guess, the Rebbe values are very hard to, you know, what, what, which, which, uh, page of Chumash or which blatt Gemara you're referring to. So I'll tell you the Rebbe values that I learned from the Rebbe. It seems if you read the-- if you read, like you said, if you read the Igeres, the Rebbe very much is pushing people You know, towards what's good for them as opposed to what they perceive to make them feel good in the moment. And, you know, flipping the conversation. And I think, I think if it comes from a harsh way and you tell someone, "You're no good," and therefore, that's not really effective. But the Rebbe I think brings out how they have the ability to rise to the occasion. I think that, that, that's, uh... I mean, the letters the Rebbe's usually talking to adults, right? That are, that are dealing with this.

37:43 Speaker 1 We have letters to give and have letters to kids.

37:44 Speaker 3 Yeah. We just in the, the Here For Kids magazine, we've been featuring, uh, letters to, uh, a letter to children-

37:50 Speaker 1 Oh, yeah?

37:50 Speaker 3 -every single, every single month. Yeah. In the upcoming ones, a kid wrote to the Rebbe, "Is it true that the Rebbe speaks all languages?" And the Rebbe says, "No, unfortunately, I do not." I do not, uh, not speak all, all languages. Um, it's very interesting. The, the story that you said before that you told the, the child, it's a story of Samach Zedek, I think. That he said, uh-

38:15 Speaker 1 Fill me in.

38:16 Speaker 3 I think it was Samach Zedek.

38:18 Speaker 1 Oh, that he said .

38:20 Speaker 3 Yeah. He, Chassid said he doesn't have Chesed.

38:22 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

38:23 Speaker 3 I learned that in Samach Zedek what what should I do that I do have Chesed?

38:27 Speaker 1 Correct.

38:27 Speaker 3 It's a, it's a... You know, you have an advantage.

38:30 Speaker 1 I mean, this co- th-this, this idea is, is, is not the be- is, is Torah. This is, I mean, everything is the Yeshiva of, of Yiddishkeit. I think the-- well, to me personally, what I feel one of the Chidushim of, of, of the Rebbe's Torah and the Rebbe's approach the Rebbe's Torah Shvi is Malchus. Malchus, the whole of Malchus to bring the Shechinah lamata ba'aretz, right? The whole, the whole point is it has to become real. Uh, to, to be an Oved, to be a in, in Yichud DeLo, that's, you know, it's good for DeRah Rishon, DeRah Sheini, DeRah Shlishi. DeRah Shvi, the whole point of DeRah Shvi, it has to be lamata ba'aretz. If it's not lamata ba'aretz, if the, if the if the, if the physical of the world doesn't understand, doesn't relate, doesn't connect with the idea of Yichud DeLo, of, of whatever it may be, in the Emunah, in the Bitachon, in the high ideas, then it's not DeRah Shvi. So I think o-one of the things that we see in, in the Rebbe's approach, machlal, is the, the, the-- there's a certain Pshitos, there's a certain simplicity. Of course, it's not simple. The Rebbe is sharing very profound and, and deep, deep concepts, but the manner, the method, how the Rebbe conveys it is through such simplicity that, that when you hear it, when you see it, it makes you look... It makes you think like, "How did I not, how did I not notice that on my own?" But

39:55 Speaker 1 obviously, you know, it's not something we would notice. But the Rebbe just ch-changes the angle, and it's like suddenly now in this perspective, the whole reality is different. So, so let's talk, you know, give an example. The Rebbe's everything is Emes. There's no, there's no bluffing. There's no, uh, everything's 100% Emes. So the Rebbe looks at a person, the Rebbe sees him how he is in, you know, Mekorei HaRishon. What's the person? The person is a Neshamah l'chisk, he's Chelek eloka mimaal. That's who he is at the core. Everything else is secondary. It's added. It's, uh, things that positive, not positive, whatever things that, that stick on. So when the Rebbe gives somebody guidance, the Rebbe responds to somebody in their challenge, in their difficulty, whatever it may be. So essentially, what the Rebbe is doing to the person is he's saying, "You're looking at yourself, you're looking at your sit-situation on a very external reality of who you really are. Let me bring you back to your Mekorei HaRishon, and when you identify yourself in that way, your problem is non-existent. You're, you, you've, you've shed the whole problem of ." It's like, it's not that you have a problem they have to deal with, you know, the whole thing is, is . There was a, there was a mine, I think-- I believe you posted it in, in, in, in the WhatsApp a few months ago. This a while back. But, and y-you may remember, I don't remember the details, the exact thing,

41:22 Speaker 1 but there was somebody wrote to the Rebbe something that, uh, he needs to be able to be Misgaver on the Yetzer. And the Rebbe said, "Misgaver, uh, you know, just something like just, just do what you're supposed to." Do you re-remember what I'm referring to?

41:38 Speaker 3 No.

41:40 Speaker 1 It was a very... I, I, I, I don't have it on my head. But ev- but the point was that the, the per- the person was looking at is that I have a challenge and have to be Misgaver on my challenge. Look, look at Torah Samuser. Look, uh, what's the approach? You have Ra, and you have to fight the Ra. Don't do this. We have Shmiras Ha'ein. They're all these things, all true things. We all, we have to do all these things. But what's the approach? There's a, there's a Ra, there's a negativity, and you have to be Misgaver. You have to have Kochos. The Rebbe suddenly says that take a different approach. It's not about being Misgaver. You, B'tivata, in your nature, your true natural self doesn't do these things. You have nothing to overcome. You just have to tune back in to your natural self. Obviously, how do we do that? You need a lot of Chassidis and, you know, we have to do-- we have to, we have to connect to the truth. But that's, that's the idea in every aspect. So a lot of these concepts that maybe you were foreign, you take a Yid and you give him to do a mitzvah. The whole concept of the Mivtzoim. You go take a Yid off the street and tell him, tell him to put on Tefillin. It's not just that in, in we say, "Oh, there's other crisis in other sects of Yiddish, of, of the, of the Jewish community." They,

42:56 Speaker 1 they don't understand. They don't buy into this idea. How do you take a Yid? Even, you know, you think the Chassidim or the Rebbe Rashab or the, the Rebbe Maharash would understand what that meant? I mean, to some it's a foreign concept. Even when the Rebbe introduced these concepts, many of the other Chassidim also were struggling with the idea. It wasn't necessarily, you know, that, uh... But The Rebbe's showing us that the real mitzvos of this guy in the street, who is he? Is it-- Today, we've, we've in many ways become accustomed to see people that way. We see a Yid, right away we look at the neshamah, come, bring a guy in, simcha, say to come dance. I don't know, recently I saw, you know, the story from Jam or whatever these... You take a guy out off the street, and they, and they, and then they, they bring him into, to, to Lubavitch. Within a month, he's having a kiddush to the Rebbe for his birthday like he, like he's, he's been a bachur in yeshiva. Like a guy, I don't know if he's even kosher. But there's no-- The Rebbe's not mechallel. It's a Yid. This is... That's it. It's the emes.

43:56 Speaker 3 I don't know if this is, uh, true what I'm saying, but I noticed today we have also outside of Lubavitch people being mesasik in, uh, bringing people closer to Yiddishkeit, Kiruv, et cetera. So I don't know if this is a true thing, but I noticed that sometimes when the people that are doing this talk, they use like a shprach, like, like this X amount of baal teshuva, and like, you know, we, we have a Shabbaton, and we tell them this, and we tell them that in order to, to hook them in and, you know, X amount to get, get, get, get involved. It's like a whole statistical game with, with the, with the tactics and, uh, you know, turnover, turnover rates. And I think that's a fundamental... I mean, it's a nice thing, but I, I think it's a fundamental difference in approach. Like you're saying that the way the Rebbe is mechaneches and the way shlichus is done, the way, uh, is that we're not here to figure out a way in order to get you there. We, we're here to be megaleh your neshamah. So it's gonna be a mitzvah, it's gonna be a shir tefillah, it's gonna be, you know, I think it's, uh, it's practical implications in the way we look at a person and the way we deal with people because of this. Uh-huh.

45:10 Speaker 1 I think that many of the chassidim, if they knew for sure that a certain individual is not chayav to become a baal teshuva, uh, it's not a candidate. There's no point. What's the point to bring him in to learn in the yeshiva or to, to come to the Shabbaton if, if somehow there's a guarantee he's-- this guy's never be coming frum. Forget about it. It's not happening, okay? So next. He's not a candidate.

45:33 Speaker 3 Right.

45:34 Speaker 1 For the Rebbe, the way, the way the Rebbe taught us, I mean, of course, we want him to be mekarev every Yid to every part of Torah. That's not, chas v'Shalom, we're not belittling the importance of, of making Baal Teshuva. I mean, mekarev a Yid a hundred percent. Make him chassidim. We want every Yid to be learning Chitas, Rambam, you know, Mefsoim, Halacha, everything. That's, you know. But if, if a Yid, if all he's gonna do one time is a mitzvah fill, is that? That's the, that's... And the Rebbe, the Rebbe says this is what the Alter Rebbe said in Tanya. You know, there's the, there's that famous, uh, sicha, I think it's Purim Torah Shechai, I don't know, one of the early years. You know, the Rebbe's like, it's, it's like, I don't know the exact words, but the mitzvah is You know, it's, it stays forever. One mitzvah. That's chassidus. But until Deirashvi, who understood what the Alter Rebbe said in Tanya, that it meant bepoyum hamash to go schlep a guy off the street and put on tefillin.

46:31 Speaker 3 Yeah. Um, it's, it's interesting that, uh... So I, I think-- So back to the chinuch for a minute. There are, um... And I'm, I'm not here to, uh, I don't view, uh, these conversations as, uh, figuring out, uh, problems that need to be fixed. You know, we're talking two chassidim together. Um, I, I, I think that sometimes that you're saying that the, the, the proven way of chinuch is the best way. Obviously, not everyone that was a mechanech fifty years ago was, was doing it right, right? So I think there are certain things you can learn. Um, one thing that I-- One thing I feel personally might have been lacking, I mean, I'm not so old, but at this point, it's a few years ago since I've been in a yeshiva or a school. One of the things I might have been lacking that I think has changed is that there are certain people that are mechanechim that haven't really thought about, you know, the chinuch. You know, they're trying to run a system, they're trying to run a school, they're trying to run a classroom. I mean, I myself, I was a learning teacher in camp. It was all about how do I get the kids to sit down and, and, and listen and not, uh, call out. Um, but u-ultimately, true chinuch is when the, the mechanech connects to, to a talmid and views, uh, you know, um, and views that talmid as, as a son and is invested in them. And, um,

48:12 Speaker 3 so that's something that was always supposed to be there. It just might not have existed always in all of the meistes chinuch. Um, is that, is that something that, uh, you feel is, uh, important to, to focus on today?

48:27 Speaker 1 A hundred, a hundred percent. A million percent. I mean, uh, the chlal, I think it's, it, it's, it's an important concept. I, I personally, I don't know, I feel that oftentimes people get, like, confused or get carried away. Torah is emes. Yiddishkeit is emes. That doesn't mean that every frum Yid is emes. Just because somebody's religious, just like, just like, you know, uh, you, you have a non-frum person will say, "Oh, I don't like the religious because they're scammers," or, "I, uh..." 'Cause one frum guy scammed him. Are you gonna say now that that, that, that boy is frum, so if he's frum, then he represents Yiddishkeit?

49:10 Speaker 3 He's a frum away.

49:11 Speaker 1 I mean, everything he does is a... Listen, we're still, we're still i-individuals, human beings that, that are not perfect, and we have faults, and we have yetzer hara, and we do things we shouldn't do. Even, even among chassidim, this reality exists. You know? It's not-- None of us are perfect. So when we say that it's important to look at the masorah of chinuch and to, and to remain loyal to that, I'm not saying that every single teacher that ever historically was a mechanech, we should model and say, "Ka'zot hei ve'kadesh. This is the way to do it." I, I think back then it was true, and I think it's true today. It's always gonna be true that in, in-- there are people that are more loyal and more sincere and, and more committed and more dedicated to doing their role the way they should, and there are people that are less. And everyone has to grow and has to become better. And certainly, I think that there's a very beneficial and positive idea that the chlal in the, in the more recent, uh, times, ch- chinuch has become much more a topic and, and there's a lot more effort and a lot more emphasis in, in enhancing and be- bettering the Klal, the, the, the style and the moises of chinuch. So I think that that, and could that gang, that idea is very positive, and it's very important. And, and, and I do think that that exists today more than Amal. Amal used to

50:42 Speaker 1 be, you know, then it comes down to melamed, mechanich, yeah, you know, especially if you couldn't find any other job, go be a teacher and, uh, figure it out. Go in the classroom, you have the kids. No, whatever. Figure it out one way or another. And today, we take things a lot more serious. It's become much more structured than that way, and I think that's a positive thing. You know, it doesn't mean that we have to throw in the garbage the Masada because now we-- now we figure it out. No. We, we, we, we still have to. It's good that we, we, we're more careful to make sure to hire teachers that aka wanna do it and aka care about it, and, and we wanna give more resources, more training, more, uh, support. All of that is very good. But what-- none of that has to be outside of the Masada. The Masada is still the, the Emes of Torah. That's what we have. And that's how we should train our teachers. That's how we should give them the values. And a hundred percent, somebody who, who's, who's lax in chinuch either shouldn't be there, or they need to shape up. It's, it's very important. The fact that a, that a teacher has to connect with the Talmud in a personal way, mamish care about him and, and, or her, and, and really, you know, be there and connect in that way is fundamental. And I think today there's more of an emphasis, there's more

51:59 Speaker 1 talk about it, we should say, than maybe it used to be Amal, and that's a very positive thing. But the, the, the, the, the values and the approach, I think, should be within the Masada. One of the integral components of being a Hasid are the Chassidishe Yamim Tovim and Yemei Depagra. Whether it's Hey Teves, Yut Shvat, Yud Aleph Nisan, or Gimel Tammuz. These days give us an opportunity to connect with our Rabbeim, to connect with each other, and be better Hasidim. What is the story behind each of these days? How did the Rebbe commemorate and celebrate these days? And most importantly, what are the lessons, the takeaways, and the action items, HaMa'aseh Hu Ha'Ikker needed for each of these days? All of this and much, much more are answered in the new set recently published by Der Her. Our Days is a journey through the Chabad calendar in story, meaning, and practice. With over seven hundred beautiful glossy pages with elevated content, beautiful, beautiful photographs, you, your family, and friends will enjoy and live with each Chassidishe Yamim Tov. This book is a must for every Lubavitcher home, for every shul, for every school. It is a perfect gift item. This will not collect dust. It will be used day after day, month after month, year after year. You can have this set. Go to derher.org/ourdays. Order your set today and start living like a Chassidishe Yamim Tov. I heard a story, um, I think I heard it from, uh, from Meir Harlig, that there

53:55 Speaker 1 was an Hasifa. I think his father was at an Hasifa called by the Friediker Rebbe. And they were discuss-- It was a different abundance. His father was a Rav. And there was different, um, discussions happening about what the American Jewry needs, you know, at that time, in the nineteen forties and tafshins. So like, uh, so-s- someone brought up kashrus. They were kashrus. So, so the Friediker Rebbe said, "Kashrus, let men lozen for the ungarishe. Let the ungarishe take care of the kashrus. Unzer inyen, what's our inyen chinuch?" And I f- and I, I think what that means, what the Friediker Rebbe was saying there, that, um, we're not-- I mean, first of all, we have to do what's, what's lacking, right? And if, uh, if American Jewry, there's, there's majority of American Jewry is not keeping Torah and mitzvahs, so that's what we need to be mesasik with it, mesasik with. That's much more important than us having, uh, Chalav Yisrael and, and good, good meat to eat for, for, for, for so the Shabbos. Um, but it's also like that became-- I mean, when the Rebbe came to America, America's inyan chinuch. I mean, that, that was the whole thing about, about education. It's mamash the, the, the whole, um, the whole Derashivi was, was, was built off, off of chinuch. And, um, it's, uh-- I mean, the Rebbe Rashab, the famous ayin yeim with Rebbe Rashab says you have to think about chinuch half an hour every day, right?

55:29 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

55:29 Speaker 1 I wa- I was looking at it recently. I think it's Mashma. A lot of people, like, feel guilty about it. That means they have to, they have to think about chinuch of their own children half an hour every day. Probably means that too. But if you look at the Lashon, I believe that it's about chinuch, general, about the, about how to educate Jewish children. So I think it's like, it's mamash like a focal point of, of the Rebbe. And also the Rebbe in Igress, you could see that it's a-- that the Rebbe gives it as a, as a tikkun to people

56:02 Speaker 5 At people that are, uh, struggling with the chatz ne'urim, the Rebbe tells them to be mis'asik in chinuch of children. Like, this is like a mamash tikkun for your neshamah for, for, for certain things that you, uh, tr- transgressions that you've done. It's like mam-- This is like-- It's like, uh, it's the focus of everything, uh, the chinuch, chinuch. Um, and, uh, and, and, and the chinuch at times, like, hey, this, that is obviously-- I'm saying you, you, you, you figure out that it depends on the place. That's the, that's what the Rebbe's, uh, approach is.

56:38 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, when we, when we were-- when our school was becoming more official, so I was, uh, discussing with Rabbi Mendy Cohen, who's the, you know, shliach in, in the general area, and the, the school that we, we took on when we became more official was really through his direction and, and encouragement, um, because it's really a school that's servicing the whole greater Sacramento area. It's not like, you know, ju- even though it's in our Chabad house, but it's not, uh, just for our own community. So everything is, you know, been through his, his leadership. So at the time, we're talking about, you know, some general direction for, for the school. So, um, we discussed that, uh, I should reach out to a few of the, you know, menaleh amoysters of the, of the original schools or some of the schools that started, you know, decades before to, to get some insight, some of the Rebbe's hadracha on, on how the schools were established, what's the right kind. And we, we were trying to figure out Limudei Cho, not Limudei Cho, how much of it, yes, and, uh, you know, what's the approach? Who are we catering to? Are we catering to the shluchim's kids? Are we catering to our community? Like, we're, we're trying to, you know, get a sense. Um, so w- somebody told me that Rabbi Wolf in Chicago had a, a ma'ayan from the Rebbe about it. So I reached out to him, among others that I reached out to

57:59 Speaker 1 as well, and, and if I remember correctly, I don't, I don't think I'm quoting the, the ma'ayan exact, but something to the tune of that the, the Rebbe basically he, he wanted to know, I believe his question was, whether he should, he should open a day school. I don't know if he asked like in New Haven or if he-- uh, Worcester, or it should be like a cheder like in Detroit. And, and, and the Rebbe told him-

58:22 Speaker 5 One has Limudei Cho and one has zero. Okay.

58:24 Speaker 1 I-- Yeah, I don't, I don't know if that was the definition or whatever, but, but, um, he said that the, the answer was that it's something to that effect. So, so I said, "Okay, so that's interesting. So how did you take the... You know, how did you take?" So he's like, "So we decided we're gonna make a day school. It's not gonna be a cheder." So I asked him, I said, "So Rabbi Wolf, you believe you have a day school?" He said, "Yeah, we, we run a day school. What do you mean? It's not a cheder." So Cheder Lubavitch of Chicago is a day school. So I'm thinking to myself, if that's a day school, then, you know, what, what's left on the table?

59:07 Speaker 5 Right.

59:09 Speaker 1 So it, it was just that's an interesting, uh-

59:14 Speaker 5 Yeah, I mean, I mean even, even in, uh, say even, even in Crown Heights, there was a, a latera opened.

59:22 Speaker 1 Right.

59:22 Speaker 5 I mean, ultimately, ultimately that looks like that's the, the Rebbe's ratzon is where ap- where appropriate and possible to have pure Limudei Kodesh, and the Rebbe's very passionate about it, and the Rebbe speaks about it. And, um, apparently subsequent to that, uh, farbrengen is when latera was established. But there's also, there's also Lubavitch Yeshiva that, uh-

59:44 Speaker 1 A hundred percent

59:45 Speaker 5 ... that, that existed. And, uh, even, even in Be- in Bedford-Stuy, there were different tracks, by the way. There was Limudei-

59:53 Speaker 1 So Bedford-Stuy was, was a thing only for older kids, no? Was it for, for young kids also?

59:58 Speaker 5 Yeah, for young kids. Yeah.

1:00:00 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:00:00 Speaker 5 Uh, they had both, you know, but they also had a track of just Limudei Kodesh at a certain point.

1:00:04 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:00:04 Speaker 5 That, uh, that, that's something. Um, and it's also interesting, Rabbi Wolf Taka was on the podcast, and he mentioned that, that he-- the Rebbe Chadikov was a mechanech.

1:00:16 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:00:16 Speaker 5 You know, the, the, the head of the maskirim of the Rebbe, you know, by, by, by profession, I guess, he was a mechanech. So this was always a very central and focal point of, uh, of, of, of the, of the Lubavitch, uh, network. Um, and I think shluchim are doing it now more. There are more schools opening today-

1:00:37 Speaker 1 A hundred percent

1:00:37 Speaker 5 ... than, than before.

1:00:39 Speaker 1 Yeah. I, I, uh, I agree. You know, so I don't wanna get carried away. This is, you know, whatever. But you mentioned it, so I'll, I'll, I'll make a comment on it. If you don't like it, leave it for what it is. Um, there's this, there's this thing, you know, yes, Limudei Cho Kodesh, only Limudei Kodesh, not Limudei Cho. Yes, Limudei Cho. One thing I think it's important to, to clarify and, and, and without this nekuda, I think that the... You know, oftentimes this conversation could be like misdirected. Saye from, from the, from the side of saying, you know only Kodesh, no Cho at all, and Saye from the side that says, "No, we need Cho." That a child needs to have a language that they can communicate in, they can read, write, and speak in that language. If they don't have that, you can't be mechanech them. So if, if zocheh so that y- that you could speak, read, and write in Yiddish, aslech, aslech, aslech, aslech. But if you're not there, then not to teach how to read and write a language. I'm not talking about, uh, tachlis, you know, be it to have a job. Pashut, they can communicate. I think, I think you're missing a bit. I, I, I don't, I don't-- Personally, I haven't found anything in the Rebbe's Torah, and I'm, I'm not saying that I read it all. Could be I'm wrong, and I would love somebody should show me if I'm wrong 'cause I, I, I think

1:02:19 Speaker 1 it's, uh, personally important to me and it's something that I'm involved with. But how could you be mechanech a kid without giving the ability to read, write, and speak a language fluently, appropriately?

1:02:31 Speaker 5 I agree with you a hundred percent. And I, you-- We're veering off from the typical style of where this podcast works, but, uh, let, let, let's keep it real and natural. So we'll, we'll, we'll go with this. I know myself, I had children in a, in a mesivta chinuch. They si- have since moved to a different mesivta chinuch, but they were no-- there was no limudei chayeil period. And the kids came home, and they were translating everything into English, like, berachos in the beginning, which is not the way I grew up. I mean, berachos was in Y-- in only been Yiddish. When I was a kid, I knew how to write and read Yiddish. So I called the principal. I said, "What's the plan?" Meaning it's the am ha-sefer, right? We, we, we, we, we read, we read books, and we write notes, and we write chodesh HaTorah. I'm saying whatever it is, but they, they don't know how to read or write English, and I think that's what the Rebbe wants. But they don't know how to read or write in anything, or they're not learning how to read. Like, I can't give them a, a book to read in Chinese, English, Yiddish. So he's g- the principal's giving me a whole explanation that whatever, they're gonna learn English on their own. I don't know, something that didn't make sense to me at the time. Ultimately, I ended up switching to a different mesivta chinuch where it's also limudei Kodesh, but they still everything,

1:03:43 Speaker 5 everything's in Yiddish, and it's great. First of all, the English part, I don't know, most kids end up picking it up on their own anyway somehow. But, um, it's not the-- But the point is that they can read, write, and articulate in Yiddish. Great. No, no, no problem. So I think you're a hundred percent right that if whatever reason it was decided that you can't do Yiddish, which is another conversation, which this talk may be be-be beyond the scope of, uh, of this conversation, the Yiddish or not. But if they're not, if they're not speaking Yiddish, they need to be able to fill out-- to, to do a test. There's a certain school that they just weren't giving out tests because, uh, the kids couldn't write anything. I don't think that's, that was-- that's the Rebbe's kavana at all with only limudei Kodesh.

1:04:27 Speaker 1 I, I, I don't believe it. I don't believe so. I, I mean, give you a, a smaller example. Um, you know, when I was a bachur in yeshiva, you know, in yeshivas is every Shabbos somebody says a ma'amar, right? It's a normal thing in most Lubavitch yeshivas. And the bachurim say, "Ma'amarim." So when I was a bachur in yeshiva, I would say probably ninety-nine percent of the time, the bachurim or whoever was chazing the ma'amar, chazed the ma'amar in Yiddish. They were always, you know, here, bachur that came from Australia. Achray, he says, "The ma'amar is psak hidush davka." And a few years ago, I was, I was, uh, visiting one of, one of my, my kids in yeshiva, and, you know, the-- I saw bachurim say ma'amar, and the bachur say ma'amar in English. Like, at the first second, it was, like, a little uncomfortable. I was like, "Oh, like, what's-- psak hidush of Lubavitch yeshiva, like, ma'amar in English?" But then also, like, if the bachur can't say the ma'amar in Yiddish, he doesn't speak Yiddish. I mean, he maybe understands. He can learn a sicha, but he don't-- he can't chaze a ma'amar in Yiddish. So, so, so just say, "Oh, no. Okay. So then chazen sh'ma'amar." If that's the language you speak, so say this in English. Is it so bad? Say it in English. Say that. Of course, Yiddish is p- is beautiful, and it's special, and it's precious, and we know the Rebbe loved it, and it was very

1:05:42 Speaker 1 dear to the Rebbe, Yiddish. The Rebbe spoke in Yiddish. The Rebbe didn't have to speak in Yiddish, and then Rebbe chose to speak in Yiddish. So the Yiddish is very important, not undermining it. But if for whatever reason it's not there, to, to say that because of that, we're not gonna give them the tools to communicate. Push to communicate. As I mentioned, a medabeh. What's the medabeh? A medabeh that can reden, right? The medabeh has to be able to speak, to communicate. You don't give him the tools to communicate, y-y-y-you're, you're, you haven't even started. You're not dealing with humans. It's like, uh-

1:06:17 Speaker 5 I, I spoke to a mashpia-

1:06:18 Speaker 1 ... you're training cows

1:06:19 Speaker 5 ... I spoke to a mashpia that gives a-- he speaks in Yiddish in his shiurim, and he said a sophisticated word bachur didn't understand. So he said the sophisticated word in English, and the bachur didn't understand. He says, "I don't know what to do here." I'm saying. Yeah. Okay. So that's-

1:06:38 Speaker 1 Okay. There were always words that, uh, you know, here and there a word, you know. The Rebbe himself at the farbrengens, uh, laughed, uh, on different occasions. You know, he said this, I don't remember what the word was. It's a word that the melamed said. He said, "Nisht, the melamed gave us what the word is. Nisht, he can fast and nobody knew." But that's the word we say, fine. So here and there, you know, there's always a word that nobody, nobody happened, nobody.

1:07:01 Speaker 5 Okay. And since you brought up the Yiddish, I'll just give a plug the other way, which is in line with what you're saying about that the old way is, is usually a good way. A lot of times when it comes to chinuch, we feel that, "Okay, whatever. It's a different time, it's a different place, and I, I grew up like this, but, uh, my kids are living in a different reality." So, so I think I- maybe you could debate what, uh, how high on the pedestal Yiddish is in this conversation. Maybe that's a debate or not, I don't know. But if let's, let's say you think that Yiddish is a value, right? Let, let's say that's something that you think is-- it's a nice to... It's a lot of people are inclined to say, "Okay, whatever. It's a different time. Next. I can't, you know, I can't even think that my kid should speak Yiddish." And a lot of them, that's an attitude that is wrong because just like you're saying that, you know, the Rebbe always spoke about the generation gap, and the Rebbe was saying that we have to-- the lack thereof, how the best, and there is no generation gap. So obviously, there is, you know- Today is not 30 years ago, and 30 years ago is not 30 years before. But a lot of times we, we like take it for granted, okay, there's a generation gap and forget it. But sometimes, I mean, when it comes to the Yiddish itself,

1:08:23 Speaker 5 there's a certain, um, a, a child that n- that can at least understand Yiddish is light years ahead i-i- just i-in, in, in Lubavitch. Say, first of all, you can understand the Rebbe. Secondly, you can read Likutei Sichot. Third of all, you don't have... You know, you can hear, uh, a, a vort of Chassidim in its original and understand it. I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, um, just as-- I'm g- putting in a commercial for this, just as, um, part, part of the theme of what you're saying that, um, sometimes l-l- ha- seeing the value in just the way, in the way things were done, th-th-this might be included in that.

1:09:04 Speaker 1 A hundred percent. No, I, I, I agree, and I think that people should be inspired. And even if it's, uh, you know, i-if it's not the whole thing, that's-- it's also good to teach certain things in Yiddish. You know, I think i-in, you know, in, in our school, which Becholal is not a Yiddish-speaking school, we still make it emphasis to teach all the kids how to say the Manishtana in Yiddish. There's certain things that, you know, obviously, you teach them how to say it. They should understand it in English also. But every kid, even the kids who are non f- non-frum families, they should be able to go home and say a Manishtana in Yiddish. It's a beautiful thing. They're not learning Yiddish because of that, but Yiddish is, is, is something very precious and something the Rebbe, the Rebbe really cares, cared about very, very much. So definitely we should try, but we have to be realistic. I think, I think one of the biggest proofs to this balance is the Der Hed. Wh-what's the Der Hed? Y-you, you, you taking a, a platform that is designed to impart the Lachluchis of Chassidishkeit, and really, the Der Hed should be a Yiddish magazine. That's-- If you want it to be appropriate, if you want it to be-

1:10:15 Speaker 5 Or, or in, or in Lashon Hakodesh, yeah.

1:10:16 Speaker 1 In Lashon Hakodesh, whatever it should be, it should be, you know, the, the way it should be. But what's the whole vort of Der Hed? Is it we-- Let's be, let's be realistic. Let-- Yes, we all should learn Yiddish, but the Rebbe, lehisato, we have a huge segment of our society, I'm talking about our Anash society, that is not Yiddish-speaking, or at least not fluent Yiddish-speaking, and even not Lashon Hakodesh-speaking.

1:10:41 Speaker 5 Yeah.

1:10:41 Speaker 1 And i-if, if we need to reach them in English, then we need to do that. And the Der Hed manages to communicate these values without compromising in the, in the integrity and the, the Reichheit and the, the, the juiciness of, of the, of the, of the, of the Lachluchis, but it's .

1:11:02 Speaker 5 Yeah.

1:11:02 Speaker 1 So people can relate to it. It's a beautiful thing.

1:11:04 Speaker 5 It's something that I-

1:11:05 Speaker 1 That's what the Rebbe wants

1:11:05 Speaker 5 ... it's something that I tell people all the time, especially, especially when I talk to, uh, donors to Der Hed. It's a question I get, like, "What was the genesis of the idea?" The answer is very simple, that not every Bachur or every Anash is able to access material 'cause they're all in Lashon Hakodesh and in Yiddish. So it was felt that, uh, this, this needs to be available in English. I mean, that's very simple. Yeah. So hundred, hundred percent.

1:11:32 Speaker 1 But I, I, what I, what I wanna emphasize is, and not... I'm preaching to the choir. You don't need me to tell you why the Der Hed is important and beautiful. But I think, I think it's, it, th-this is the, the, the, the, the, the novelty of this approach. I-and, and I feel that in a certain way, this is what we're striving to do in our Mosot Chinuch as well. In one hand, we need to adapt to the crowd. We need to adapt to the audience who, who, who we're catering to. But on the other hand, in the process of doing that, we don't have to compromise ki useh whatsoever on the message, on what we're giving over. So that the Hed could say, "Oh, it's an English magazine, so it's gonna be calm. It's a, uh, uh, watered-down version. We'll have some things traditionally." No. It's if, if, if you translated a hand in Lashon Hakodesh, it would be like, you know, perfect top-of-the-line Chassidishe magazine. And it's just that it's in English. Even the things that the, the Hed, you know, didn't do right away, but they, they started to do that you put in the, the years. You put the, the Hebrew year, and then you put the English year. I think it's a beautiful thing. So the English year. Listen, the poor guy who's reading it doesn't know what five six seven two is, you know? So give him the... Give him a reference.

1:12:52 Speaker 5 Sometimes the, the Erchem of the Hed don't know either.

1:12:57 Speaker 1 You know, we, we, we all live in this dirah yosom.

1:13:01 Speaker 5 Yeah.

1:13:01 Speaker 1 But I think that that's the point I'm saying here with the Chinuch as well. In one hand, we have to make a Mosot Chinuch that could be realistic for a non-frum kid to join. But I don't think that in the process of doing that, we need to water down the level of the Chinuch. Say, "Oh, if you want, if you want a non-frum kid to join, then you have to teach social studies, and you have to have, uh, five hours a day of, of Horeb and maybe one or two hours of Kodesh. And Gemara, who needs it? How, who's... The kids are gonna learn Gemara? What are you? You crazy? They're not, they not understand. They sh- you should teach them about how the Rebbe Yutras kids live. Tell them a Sicha. Eh, come on, let's be honest. These are not..." I think that we could do both. We could make the, the, the, the, the, the style of the Chinuch in a way that it's relatable, and we don't have to water down. We don't have to compromise on the standard and the values of, of what we're teaching.

1:13:59 Speaker 5 I think what you say makes a lot of sense. Also, if you think about it in general, how we take Chassidus and teach it to people, right? The Rebbe said that Lubavitch is Nishkam Haflag. Chassidus is Nishkam Haflageh. The Rebbe says from Alter Rebbe. That's not a party. The Rebbe said the first night, Bas Agani, Yichvat. And I think it's the same exact concept with the way we deal with Yidden in general. Like, they aren't like-- It's not like this Yid is not Chayav to hear about, I don't know, Yutas Kislev. He's not Chayav to hear, you know. Uh, in 10 years, once he comes a lot closer, then I could tell him about it. He's Chayav to hear about it on day one, just like he's Chayav to Chinuch on day one, right? He's Chayav to, he's Chayav to the Tanya on day one. It's the same, it's, it's a very-- So depending on what level it is, you know, you're gonna have to explain every line and what everything means, or you're gonna have to explain every three lines, you know, depending on what, what he knows and, uh, where he's holding in, in knowledge. But every-everything is for everybody.

1:14:57 Speaker 1 Hundred percent.

1:14:57 Speaker 5 That this is, this is, this is an essential core, uh, you know, uh, attitude of the Rabbeim and of the Rosh Yeshiva especially. I'm saying this, this is like a very important thing.

1:15:07 Speaker 1 The Rebbe credited to the Friediker Rebbe, but I don't know if it actually happened in the times of the Friediker Rebbe, that the idea of, of being mefitz Torah and ChassidusYeah

1:15:24 Speaker 5 Who-- Tell me who, who-- how many Chinese are learning Tanya? 'Cause the Rebbe wanted. And, and if I'm not mistaken, I remember hearing that story. The Rebbe asked specifically, the Rebbe 40 years ago, wanted a Tanya in Chinese. Was that from a Tanya in Chinese? The Rebbe-- That's take-- He don't compromise the message and then say, "In Chinese, we're gonna make up some small little book that has some snippets of, of Chassidus." No, Tanya. The, the same Tanya that the Bachar is learning in Yeshiva, that you-- the, the same Tanya the Alter Rebbe wrote page by page in Chinese, in English, in French, in Russian, every... This is the idea. We, we have to be able to-- And that's the Rashbi. I, I believe in some sijjas the Rebbe speaks that it's the Friediker Rebbe, you know, whatever, but I don't know if the quote comes-

1:16:11 Speaker 1 No, 'cause the Friediker Rebbe did, he did, um, translate, um, I think into German. There were, there were, there were certain thing-

1:16:16 Speaker 5 Uh-huh

1:16:16 Speaker 1 ... that the Friediker Rebbe did do, yeah. But obviously, when the Rebbe kochs in it so much, this is like the whole-

1:16:22 Speaker 5 Right

1:16:22 Speaker 1 ... the-- it's, it's, it, it really happened in a real way during the Rebbe's nesias.

1:16:29 Speaker 5 Right.

1:16:30 Speaker 1 Um, there's a-- I know, I know of a person that, uh, this person, you know, he's frum for 50 years, but his first interaction was by m- you know, he happened to be in someone's house and pulled off, this is in the 1960s, and pulled off an English Tanya off a shelf and started reading it, and was fascinated by, by the concepts. Someone that didn't have a background b'klal in, in, you know, Jewish education.

1:16:57 Speaker 5 That must have been a very bright person because I, I, I, I, I don't know how he can read those Tanyas back then and actually understand.

1:17:04 Speaker 1 Happens to be it was and, uh, and, uh, yeah. But, but, but, but as you think about it, it's like the Rebbe made a whole-- the Rebbe was very happy about the Tanya being translated into English then.

1:17:14 Speaker 5 Yeah.

1:17:15 Speaker 1 You open it up, exactly like you're saying, like w-what is this? You know? This is not lessons in Tanya line by line with explanation. This is just straight up in English and like, you know, that's it. It's, it's the Rebbe-- It's, it's, it's Uh-huh. Okay. So, uh, very insightful, and, um, I think that, uh, your approach is unique. It's a very unique... It's a-- And I never heard of it. I never heard anything like this before. This, this type of school and type of attitude, and that you're able to... I know in other communities there's been an issue when a school that was started for, you know, like a, like a, like a, like a Hebrew academy, and then became an Anash school, and people can't figure out how to correlate both the things together. And you're going on a, a

1:21:10 Speaker 5 The , right? It's all overt

1:21:13 Speaker 1 I met a yid recently that, um, told me that he went to Lubavitch school, one of the Afikims. We'll leave their location out. He says, "Back in the 1960s or '70s." And he tells me, "You know, I had all these teachers." And he starts to name me all the Lubavitcher teachers that he had. "I never heard about the Rebbe or about Chabad. When I came to New York, I heard about the Rebbe and I went to farbrengen or whatever. So I feel like that was, that was then. That was, that was at that time. You know, may- maybe they were supposed to do that. I don't, I don't know. But today it's a whole, it's a whole, it's a whole different ballgame. It's and the, the, the Mayan is, is out there and, uh, it's, it's for the taking for everyone

1:21:58 Speaker 5 Now, now that, now that you're mentioning this, you know, the, the, the, the Rebbe's reach I mean, it's become so incredible and especially, you know, even talking the last few months that, uh, even if the Hasidim don't wanna talk about the Rebbe it's too late. The world already found out-

1:22:20 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:22:20 Speaker 5 ... and the world leaders are fighting over, you know, who's, who's more connected with the Rebbe. So forget the Hasidim, the they don't need us anymore. They already found the and, uh, you know, come over. And I'm, I'm exaggerating a little bit, but yeah, I mean, today the, the Rebbe is popular. It's not, uh, it's not something, you know, we have to anymore be, you know, second guessing. Should we say, should I take a guy to the IO or not? Today, you know, uh, that's it. You know, the, the, the... All the big hotshots of the world, everybody's running to the IO. That's, uh, it's, it's amazing. Really, if you stop and think about it, it's unbelievable. And this is Mamish. I think even post it's Mamish, Mamish, uh, the, the, the, the most recent development in a certain way, and it's amazing. It's amazing, amazing, amazing. This is Mamish, Moshiach has to be coming. No other option.

1:23:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. And, um, and the Hasidim are-- I mean, there's a word from Geshem Mendel. If it's coming outside that, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna wanna get into the farbrengen in '70s and it's gonna be full of, uh, other people. You're not gonna be able to get in. You know, you, you, you-

1:23:30 Speaker 5 Right

1:23:31 Speaker 1 ... the Us Hasidim won't be able to even, won't be able to even get in. So I think we're, we're starting to see that a little bit.

1:23:36 Speaker 5 I hope, I hope you didn't give up your locker over there, you know, that you had then.

1:23:40 Speaker 1 Yeah. Exactly. Okay. Yossi, I really appreciate this, and, um-

1:23:48 Speaker 5 Of course

1:23:48 Speaker 1 ... I think it's a, a fresh, uh, perspective that, uh, many people will, uh, benefit from.

1:23:57 Speaker 5 thank you for the opportunity, and, uh, it's a, it's a pleasure to farbreng with you. keep up the great work, Yossi. You're doing great in the and everything. It's, it's beautiful. So

1:24:08 Speaker 1 Thank you for the encouragement.