Meshumadim, Wine and Coed Classes

Welcome to our weekly program, The Inside Story of Chabad in America, through the Mindel archives.

I owe my listeners an answer. A few weeks ago — about four or five weeks ago — I mentioned that the shluchim emailed me some questions, and that I have letters, maybe there are answers from the Rebbe. We mentioned then about Tesla, about the Pope, if you remember, and also about putting a stone in the Western Wall, and also the other questions that they asked that I didn't answer yet, and I said I would. So maybe today I will.

I found a letter here with some answers to what they asked. Remember, we asked: if a person has adult education classes, can they — should they — invite anybody that wants to come? What if anybody that calls, can I come? I mean, since they say "I'm Jewish," is that enough? Maybe this Jew converted to Christianity — he's a Jew, and he converted to Christianity. Can he come to the group? That was a question that everybody was waiting for. And I found an answer, also about wine: at a farbrengen with people who are not religious, should they drink wine together at the table? And also about mixing — can they sit together, women and men? This was the question that they asked, and there is an answer from the Rebbe. So I did find a letter here from the Rebbe, and I think it answers everything, and I'm going to do this.

But before this, I want to mention something — maybe I did mention it a few years ago. Rabbi Dr. Nissan Mindel, when he was a bochur in Russia, was beaten up by two goyim — they pushed him and punched him — and he ended up in the hospital, and it affected his ears. And what did it affect? He has to eat every three hours, otherwise he can faint. This is the condition — I don't know, this condition. So he doesn't know what to do, and this is about fasting on Yom Kippur. I remember that of course he fasted — he was in bed, he went to Neilah, and then he went here and there, but of course they didn't need [him to], but this — he doesn't know what to do. I mean, he has to eat. So he asked the Frierdiker Rebbe, and the Frierdiker Rebbe told him he should ask a rov what to do. As he was walking out from the Frierdiker Rebbe's room, [the Rebbe] called him back and smiled at him and said, "Don't forget to ask a kluger rov" — a clever rov. The rov was Rabbi Shmulge [?]. This was before Crown Heights — I don't know, no, this was in the '40s, this was early. So he asked a kluger rov, and [the rov ruled] he could eat half the day. So this is what the answer was as far as Yom Kippur was concerned.

Before this I wanted to mention this. Now, speaking about a kluger rov, I remember my father — when he was young, maybe before he got married, maybe after the wedding — he was in Russia. There was a Rabbi Mendel Dubrowsky, he was a big rov. I think I heard that he even once spoke to Rabbi Moshe Feinstein — somebody told me, I'm not sure. He was the father-in-law of Rabbi Dworkin, who was the Rov in Crown Heights, a big rov. So he was there with him in Russia, either a relative or close with us. So my father had shimush by Rabbi Dworkin — meaning that a rov, besides learning the halachos in general, should see how the rov conducts himself, how people come in with questions, he should sit by and see the way people ask questions. Rabbi Dubrowsky — this is shimush; if a person wants to become a rov, he should have shimush, it's very important.

So once a woman came in with a question about a chicken — nowadays there are no such questions, I guess all chickens are kosher, but years ago women used to check a chicken and if they saw something wrong, they would go to a rov to ask. So she knocked on the door, she went to Rabbi Dubrowsky with the chicken. Rabbi Dubrowsky said to my father, "You know what — you paskin." So my father looked at the chicken. My father said, "It's treif, because there's a certain place in the lung — that certain place everybody knows — that's treif." So he told the truth. So Rabbi Dubrowsky asked my father, "Tell me, what did you pasken?" He said, "I said it's treif." Rabbi Dubrowsky said, "Let me see the chicken." So he took the chicken, and he looked and looked and looked in it, and he said to the woman, "Here, take the chicken, go home, it's kosher." My father was shocked — I mean, everybody knows that place is treif. So Rabbi Dubrowsky said to my father, "I know you're shocked, I know. But I'm telling you, in her case, it's kosher." My father didn't know what case — in her case you can make it kosher. I think this is called a kluger rov, because it's straight, but sometimes you have to know when and what.

This also reminds me — talking about this — I remember that fifteen, sixteen years ago my daughter got married in Crown Heights, and on the day of the chasunah, in the morning, we went to the Ohel — that's the custom, to go to the Ohel on the day of the chasunah. I was going with my wife to the Ohel with the kallah, and I got a call that my mother had passed away that day. So right away I had to turn back, and the levayah was that same day. Anyway, so I didn't know what to do as far as the chuppah that night — what should I do? I didn't know that you cannot ask a shailah if you are an onen. I thought you could ask one [rov] or another and do what you decide, but anyway, I did ask — which I shouldn't have, but I did. So one rov said you are not allowed to go to the wedding, you're not going to go, even though I was an onen. One rov said you can go but stand outside; another rov said you can go, but you have to stand outside, not sit down. He said to me, "Let me ask you a question — you know it's a big mitzvah. Will your daughter, the kallah, feel bad if you're not going to be there?" I said, "I'm sure." He said, "If that's the case, you can go — not to sit down, but you can just be there." I think that's called a kluger rov. Sometimes you have to know — even though if I had asked a rov plainly, "You're not allowed," of course, your mother passed away that day, but this was a kluger rov.

Another thing this reminds me of, about a kluger rov: you know, Esther HaMalka said, "Go gather all the Yehudim, and let's fast three days and three nights." If she had asked a strict, by-the-book rov, "Can I fast?" — you're not allowed to fast, because the whole reason Achashverosh married her was because of her beauty, and when you fast, the beauty goes away. So that's a second [example]. That's what a regular rov would have told her. But baruch Hashem, Mordechai was a real kluger rov, so to speak, and agreed that she should fast.

So anyway, I just wanted to mention, talking about a kluger rov — now let's go back to what we mentioned before, the question. So here I found the letter — this is a letter from the Rebbe to someone who is in Russia — he lives in America but asked about Russian Jews. We'll see.

"For tactical reasons, it is more convenient to reply to your letter in English than in Russian. You may of course continue to write to me in Russian, but let me know if you prefer to receive the reply in Hebrew or English."

The Rebbe writes: The question that you asked — in a certain city there are Jews who converted to Christianity, and some of them now feel an urge towards Judaism and would like to join a Torah study group. What should be the attitude towards them? This was the question, I guess, a few weeks ago.

The Rebbe answered: In general, each individual has to be considered as a separate case, and the criteria for admission to the study group should be an assessment of the expected result — is the individual likely to return to Judaism by attending the Torah study, or will it have the opposite effect? So you have to know beforehand. He converted to Christianity — the Rebbe explains that in making such an assessment, two kinds of individuals should be borne in mind.

There may be one who has become a missionary — in this case he should not be judged favorably, even though he's a Jew. Moreover, it is in the nature of such a convert to seek justification for his conversion at every opportunity; hence he will not stop at distorting and misrepresenting the truth. So he should not be invited — you have to first know who he is, if he is that kind of missionary, even though he's Jewish, but his whole intention is to make them believe what he believes.

A further factor: the study classes are attended by Jews not all of whom are a hundred percent firmly entrenched in Judaism. Some of them are rather weak and have doubts. Consequently, if these were to meet with the said element in an atmosphere of Torah learning and discussion, that association may be very harmful to them, in view of the weakness of their own convictions.

On the other hand, the Rebbe presents a second type of convert — those who converted not because they were brainwashed, but for some foolish external reason, and more particularly those who come under the category of tinok shenishba [captured infant]. In this case, the prospect of helping them return to Judaism is of course more promising. The above are general guidelines, and each individual case should be considered on its own merits, as mentioned.

In addition to this — in view of the Holocaust, which was largely an outgrowth of centuries-long animosity and persecution perpetrated against Jews — if there is a Jew who, despite living so close in time and place to this atrocity, yet finds it proper in his mind and heart to become a part of and to be identified with the creed and its proponents who claimed so many innocent Jewish victims — men, women, and children — all in the name of Christianity, then perhaps it may be possible to bring him back to his senses in other ways, but hardly by means of Torah study.

At the same time, the Rebbe says, considering those among the study circle members who are so-called borderline cases, whose Jewish identity is still weak and who have to be strengthened in their commitment to Torah, it is easy to see how harmful it would be for them to come into close association with these elements — all the more so since it would be difficult to limit such association to the periods of Torah study and preclude them from meeting afterwards in other situations.

So this is the answer to the first question.

Regarding the question we had about wine: when inviting non-observant Jews who had been brought up in non-observant homes, is it right to drink wine with them? As yesterday [in a previous letter] answered, in view of the fact that non-observant Jews constitute a wide range from one end to the other, and for understandable reasons it is impossible to check everyone's Jewish credentials, why enter into a questionable situation when there are many other drinks than wine that could be served in such company, with no concerns involved? So when you have people that you don't know who they are, you shouldn't drink wine — you can have other drinks.

Now the third question that they had: there is a group of young women who would also like to learn Torah. Would it be permissible to admit them to men's study classes, or should separate classes be formed for the women? In the latter case, would it be proper to have male instructors for them? This was the question.

And here the Rebbe answers: In view of the extraordinary circumstances and difficulties in that country — talking about people in Russia; this question, I guess, was about the people of Russia, but then the Rebbe presents it for people who are here also, we'll see — I would be inclined to take a more lenient view, to admit women into the men's classes. The Rebbe would be lenient. However, in order to emphasize the exception, due to the extenuating circumstances, and also in order to be mindful of the din, two provisions should be made, even though the halacha is lenient, but the Rebbe wants to say two things here: one, to teach in a co-ed class only such subjects as are also incumbent on women — such as the basics of faith, love and fear of God, prayer, and the like — these would be the subjects dealt with in such settings. And the second thing: separate seating should be arranged for the men and women — they shouldn't sit together. This would also preclude other personal associations, such as mixed dancing, and although we are speaking of persons who, by reason of background, are not otherwise averse to mixed dancing and socializing, it is obvious that this should not be permitted in these groups, and no heter — no permission — should be given for such practice, explicit or implied.

I must emphasize again one more paragraph: that this permission mentioned above — that the Rebbe was lenient in regard to co-ed study — is based on the special circumstances prevailing in that particular country, there being no other way to save them from assimilation and intermarriage. It should in no way serve as a precedent for other countries where those circumstances do not prevail, nor continue even in that same country when the situation improves sufficiently not to have to resort to that leniency.

So we see from here that the Rebbe holds that — I guess it's only in that [situation] — but usually you should be very careful when you have groups where women want to come, men want to come, so you have to really know.

Then the Rebbe finishes: Turning to the rest of your letter, I will remember in prayer those you mentioned when visiting the holy resting place of my father-in-law [the Frierdiker Rebbe], of saintly memory, whose concern for his fellow Jews, particularly in that country, knew no bounds, to the point of self-sacrifice, and as our Sages of the Talmud [say], the shepherds of our Jewish people do not forsake their flock even after their histalkus, and continue to intercede and plead on their behalf. And we're praying for good wishes.

So this is what the Rebbe finishes. So this is the answer for the people — I had this in mind that I had to answer them. I had a few calls later that I didn't answer, so I wanted to.

Now, since next week is Tisha B'Av, I want to wish that it should become a Yom Tov, and we should see the building of the third Beis Hamikdash speedily in our days.

Next week we will continue our weekly program. Thank you.