Frierdiker Rebbe’s Conversation With Soviet Interrogators

Welcome to our weekly program, The Inside Story of Chabad in America, through the Mindel archives.

Today is the yahrtzeit [connected to the Frierdiker Rebbe] — I mean, today is also the yahrtzeit of Rabbi Nissan Mindel. He was born [date unclear], the secretary — the secretary of the Frierdiker Rebbe. And he — he passed away [date unclear]. He was born [unclear], he was given over to the Rebbe — that was his life.

So today I want to share with you a letter that the Frierdiker Rebbe wrote himself — he signed the letter he wrote. We have the original, and this letter he wrote in 1944, in Hebrew, and I will translate it into English. He wrote this in 1944, written to Rabbi Nissan Mindel. Now, why did he write this letter? Let me tell you the background.

In 1944–45 there was a learning group in a dentist's office in Manhattan, and that group was given [taught] by Alexander Cowan [?], every Wednesday at 8:30 — a group of scientists, about twenty-five people, I think. And the lesson was read from a text based on the Bible. The Frierdiker Rebbe was very, very interested in this group. This was the beginning, I guess, of adult education in America. He sent Rabbi Mindel every single week to attend the class and to give him right away a report of the questions that the people asked — we will probably do the questions maybe next week, I don't know if we'll have time — and he was very interested. And every week the Frierdiker Rebbe said that he should tell the Ramash [Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, later the Lubavitcher Rebbe] the questions that they asked.

So what happened is that the Ramash wrote down the answers he gave. We have here, saved, the questions and the answers that he gave — he wanted him also to participate, to give the answers next week. I think we will do some of the questions that they asked, and what he answered.

One day [Rabbi Mindel] came to the Frierdiker Rebbe and gave a report, and he said that the class needs a little bit — I mean, it lacks some enthusiasm, some spark; it's getting a little, I don't know, a little boring. So the Frierdiker Rebbe said, "If that's the case, you should tell them a story. By telling a story, maybe that will bring them some higher enthusiasm."

So the Frierdiker Rebbe sat down and wrote a letter, and he said, "Take this letter, read it to them, and that will give the class a lift again." And this is how it happened — he wrote it, and this was written by the Frierdiker Rebbe.

So, some of what we know happened in Russia — I think this letter is the beginning. This is a letter from the Frierdiker Rebbe. So now I'm going to do this in English. He wrote it to tell this class, and this was translated by Rabbi Mindel. It's a translation of the Frierdiker Rebbe's interrogation by the GPU in 1921.

So now, the letter goes — the Rebbe writes:

It was in the summer of 1921, in the month of Tammuz, in July, when I, the Rebbe, was invited to appear at the Cheka — the Extraordinary Committee, later to be known as the GPU, the equivalent of the Nazi Gestapo, and dreaded no less. The hour was the customary one. As the Rebbe was still in mourning after his father — this was during the mourning period — I was in the middle of the Amidah, when three Chekists entered the room, armed to their teeth with rifles, guns, Caucasian knives, and belts of ammunition.

Not attempting to disguise their hatred, they went up to me and told me I was requested to accompany them immediately to the Cheka. Two of the men were of the Yevsektsia — that's the Jewish Section — and the third was a gentile. When I told them I wished to conclude my prayers, the two Jews almost fell upon me, trying to tear off my tallis and tefillin, telling me that those days were over. If not for the gentile companion, they would have forced me to accompany them before concluding my prayers. The gentile guard, however, prevailed upon them to let me conclude my prayers.

I recognized one of the Jews as a native of Chavel [?], having once come to me for help; I secured a position for him with a tobacco firm, and even lent him some money to start a business of his own. That was, of course, before the revolution.

The Rebbe continues, writing: When I concluded saying the last Kaddish, I took off my tallis and tefillin and accompanied them to the dreaded Cheka. I had an armed guard on each side of me, and one walking behind, like a very dangerous criminal. In those days one never knew whether one could come back alive from a visit to the Cheka — that's how dangerous it was.

I was led into a large room where some fifteen men sat at a long table, on each side, with two men at its head. I was placed at the end of the table, still surrounded by the armed guard. One of the two men sitting at the head of the table turned to me, saying: "We are members of the committee investigating religious activity under the auspices of the party. We are engaged at present in investigating the Jewish faith. We had some questions cleared up by Rabbis Berman and Goldberg, whom we had invited here. Now you have been invited to clear up some questions with regard to Kabbalah and Chassidus." He spoke in Russian. Although I know Russian well, I replied in Yiddish: "I have already been invited twice before to the Cheka, when I already stated that I would not deviate from my principles, and the man — or devil — hasn't been created yet who could make me give up as much as an iota."

Before I managed to conclude these few words, one of the Chekists present, sitting near the head of the table, picked up the gun lying in front of me — in addition to being armed with a gun, each one had a gun lying on the table before him, no doubt to intimidate — and said, "This toy does away with many principles and opens the mouth of the dumb." "You are absolutely mistaken," I said, "for this toy impresses only those who do not believe — these cowards who have only one world and many gods, to whom each passion is a god, and they are afraid to lose this only world. But we Jews, who have only one God but two worlds, this toy does not frighten, and even makes no impression whatsoever."

"We did not do this for the purpose of annoying you," said the chairman, "let's hear your principles — maybe we can get together on them." Word for word, in English, the Rebbe writes: "My principle is that I do not wish to hear nor to speak any language but Yiddish, even amongst Christians, and especially amongst men who belong to the Jewish people." "How do you know that we are Jews?" one of them asked. So I answered: "Maybe I'm mistaken, and not all those present here are Jews. My grandfather [?] could recognize a Jew at a glance, even in the street. Once, when he was in Kiev, walking along Christiane [?] Street, he stopped a young man dressed in modern clothes, clearly anxious to disguise his Jewish origin, and asked him where a famous professor lived. The young man became incensed and said, 'How do you know that I am a Jew?' 'The stress has left its effect upon your nose,' said my grandfather. 'Now, that I cannot recognize by that same criteria, but I still believe I am not mistaken.'"

The first question was: "You observe your faith in every detail — you keep your head covered, you wear tzitzis, and so forth. Now, all these things you do — do you do them because of conviction, or because of faith and habit?" So I answered: "From absolute conviction." They said: "If so, convince us also, and bring us to the same spiritual level as yours." Then I said: "I am prepared to oblige you, and surely you will give me the opportunity to fulfill your request. You will admit, however, that if a student of astronomy were stopped in the street by someone with a request to explain to him the system of the stars and planets, surely the student of astronomy would tell him: I cannot explain it to you here in the street right now, but if you really wish to learn, come up to the planetarium, and you will see with your own eyes, through the telescope, the movement of the stars and planets. Similarly, I say to you: if you really want to learn and be convinced about our faith in God and His oneness, come with me to the house of God, put on tefillin, eat kosher, observe Shabbos — your mind will be clarified as well as your heart, and you will be able to understand with a clear thought, and I will surely bring you, little by little, to the conviction of the truth of our faith and the Torah."

"But first explain to us intellectually," they said, "and then we will take upon ourselves to observe the Jewish faith. But until then we cannot accept religious matters as truth." So I answered: "You surely know definitely that food does not merely satisfy the stomach and give strength, but even fattens, because it turns into blood and flesh. In medicine the process of digestion is clearly explained. But suppose someone said: I shall refuse to eat until it will be explained to me how the food turns into blood and flesh — it is necessary to believe, and to eat and drink first, and then go and study medicine if you wish. And so it is also with religion."

This is the letter, and the Rebbe signs this letter. This letter was given to the group — the group needed a lift — and they spoke about this letter for days and days, and it gave them a lift, gave them enthusiasm in their whole class, and they went over it again and again. These words that he wrote made a profound impression on the people, and this was one of the first adult education classes. Rabbi Mindel and the Frierdiker Rebbe were very much involved in this [unclear].

Next week I will share with you — written from our Rebbe, the Ramash — some of the questions that they asked, and the answers that the Ramash gave to them. Thank you.