Episode 27: Celebrate Yourself 🎊 | With Odel Kliger

00:00 Speaker 1 You’re invited to a heart-to-heart conversation with Odel Kliger, a woman full of energy, who takes us through her life’s journey, full of challenges, and shows us how, in the end, joy wins despite everything. Come with joy. A reminder: if you enjoyed the content, you’re welcome to share it and pass it on to anyone who might want it. Intro, and we’ll begin. How can we turn our lives into lives of shlichus, full of meaning? I’m Chani Moskowitz, a shlucha in Kharkiv, Ukraine. In this podcast, we’ll meet different women who will share their shlichus in a variety of fields and, through their stories, help each of us find and define our own shlichus in the world. Because living the life we were created for is the best there is. Shlichus as a way of life. We’re starting now. Hello, Odel Kliger.

00:53 Speaker 2 Hello!

00:54 Speaker 1 How are you?

00:55 Speaker 2 Boruch Hashem, boruch Hashem.

00:57 Speaker 1 So why did you come all the way to Beitar Illit? Tell me.

01:00 Speaker 2 Why did I come?

01:01 Speaker 1 Why did I come all the way to Beitar Illit?

01:02 Speaker 2 Why did you come? Oh, because you’re a woman who, ever since you left Ukraine, has kept going with your shlichus.

01:09 Speaker 1 Okay.

01:10 Speaker 2 It doesn’t matter if you have to travel from one end of the world to the other. You’re doing holy work, and you’re incredibly interesting.

01:16 Speaker 1 Thank you. I came to see you in honor of the month of Adar. No, really, I watch you, and I see that joy isn’t just a slogan for you. I also love your honesty, because people often try to be happy and all that, but you often show that joy isn’t something that comes naturally. It’s not... it takes work.

01:39 Speaker 2 Not at all.

01:40 Speaker 1 It takes work. And that’s what I want to convey here, because girls often think, “Well, she’s happier. It comes easily to that one. Me, I’m someone who struggles. I’m not happy. I’m the kind of person...” And I really think we want to share a very special message today in honor of Adar, because it’s a great mitzvah to always be joyful. And Adar is the month of joy: when Adar begins, we increase in joy. So, would you tell the audience about yourself, so they can get to know you better? You’re going to be talking for a full thirty seconds, you know. You’ve got all the time you need now. Go ahead.

02:12 Speaker 2 Let’s try and get started. First of all, my life began in an unusual way, not the usual way, because I lost my father very young, when I was four. Yes, that was already something that wasn’t happy.

02:25 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

02:26 Speaker 2 And afterward, in the neighborhood, in the community where we lived, we didn’t quite... we didn’t fit in there. I don’t want to say this as an aside, but yes, as an aside: my father’s Ashkenazi side went up to heaven, so we were left with my mother’s Mizrahi side.

02:43 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

02:44 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, yes, yes. I’m explaining it because that really—

02:48 Speaker 1 Where did you live?

02:48 Speaker 2 We lived in Ramot Daled, on a street—in the Umm Duar neighborhood. The homes there were—

02:53 Speaker 1 The neighborhood’s population wasn’t, um...

02:55 Speaker 2 No, they were very respectable homes, very, very... respectable people. And suddenly there we were, little orphans. It didn’t sit right with people there. And then, after I’d lost my father and understood that I had no dad, I realized our everyday life wasn’t like everyone else’s anymore. We weren’t a typical home with a father and mother, Shabbos and holidays. Not at all. Then it was time for first grade, and I said, “Okay, never mind. At least I’ll start first grade, fit in socially, and be very, very outgoing.” But they didn’t accept me there either.

03:26 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

03:26 Speaker 2 There too, yes, they didn’t accept me. The regular community school, the—

03:32 Speaker 1 What, was it something official like that, or...?

03:34 Speaker 2 The regular Beis Yaakov school that’s supposed to accept everyone—

03:36 Speaker 1 Wow, unbelievable.

03:36 Speaker 2 They actually held an emergency committee meeting and decided that Odel Langer wasn’t suitable. So once again I understood that joy wasn’t exactly in our home, as they say. I went on with a lot of social difficulties, even at the new school I ended up in, and difficulties with my studies. I really had so, so many difficulties. I was constantly busy trying to please all the girls around me, make them happy, make them laugh, disrupt class, make animal noises—whatever it took, I’d do it, as long as someone would—

04:09 Speaker 1 Right.

04:09 Speaker 2 Give me a smile and bring some joy out of me. Really, that was my life. And physically, when I was very young, they suddenly saw that something was wrong. One morning, when I was six and a half, I couldn’t get out of bed. They ran tests and took me to the hospital. I was there for about ten days without a diagnosis. They didn’t know what it was, but something was happening to this little girl. Eventually they realized I had inflammation in the joints throughout my body.

04:36 Speaker 1 At what age?

04:37 Speaker 2 Six, six and a half, something like that. Yes.

04:40 Speaker 1 Wow.

04:41 Speaker 2 Something absolutely crazy, just impossible to grasp.

04:44 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

04:45 Speaker 2 I got through that too. It wasn’t an easy time. And again, I’m telling you, throughout that whole period I was trying to find a little attention, a little joy, a little acknowledgment from people, from the world. And I got used to it. I got used to that being my life. I’m not going to detail every journey, every hardship I went through—

05:04 Speaker 1 Just the highlights.

05:05 Speaker 2 The highlights. Okay, so when I was about nine and a half, something like that, I was in fourth grade—or fourth and a half—and apparently I was so, so, so, so restless and disruptive that the teacher told the administration, “It’s either me or Odel. Please, either expel her or I’m leaving your school.”

05:27 Speaker 1 Yes.

05:28 Speaker 2 Which meant that they moved me from fourth grade straight to seventh.

05:31 Speaker 1 What?

05:32 Speaker 2 Crazy! Unbelievable, it makes no sense. You don’t hear of things like that. Suddenly I was with these huge girls, and at recess I’d run off to play with the little second-graders who were my friends.

05:42 Speaker 1 But how?

05:43 Speaker 2 Why, you’re asking? Because age-wise, I actually did fit in: they’d had me repeat first grade.

05:48 Speaker 1 Oh, because you were hospitalized.

05:49 Speaker 2 And when I finally reached second grade, they had me repeat second grade too.

05:52 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

05:52 Speaker 2 So in fourth grade the teacher said, “Odel isn’t the same age as the girls here. She completely takes over the class, and I’m not willing to have her here anymore.” Somehow I accepted it then, but even then... come on, it really wasn’t a pleasant time. In eighth grade, I jumped awkwardly in class while we were getting ready for some sort of test, and I tore the retina in my eye.

06:13 Speaker 1 Wow.

06:13 Speaker 2 I couldn’t see. Though two years earlier, I’d gone for just a routine eye exam, and instead of the doctor saying, “Six-six, the girl can see,” and all that, he said, “No, actually, she’s five-five. The girl can’t see.” So yes, I went through that stage too, with these gorgeous glasses that made me look awful. I looked like a Siamese cat. I was terribly embarrassed by them. I got through that stage too. At eleven and a half, one morning I washed the dishes and made my mother a cup of coffee. I put the kettle of hot water near the shelf, and when I stepped back, the whole kettle spilled on me. The skin on my entire leg just seemed to melt away. Third-degree burn, hospital, hospitalized for a few weeks. At one point my mother had put some drops on it, some [unclear] and turmeric—I don’t know what someone had brought her. Then one morning in the hospital, I saw a group of doctors, and they simply said, “Today we’re amputating your leg—

07:08 Speaker 1 Oh my goodness.

07:08 Speaker 2 Because you have gangrene.” And when my mother arrived at the shift change—I don’t remember who’d been there—she told them, “No, no, what are you talking about? Those are drops I put on it.” They said, “There’s no way you put anything on it, because this dressing is sterile.” She said, “Wait until tonight and you’ll see.” And slowly they saw that it was—

07:22 Speaker 1 Wow, wow.

07:23 Speaker 2 And in the end, they didn’t amputate my right leg.

07:26 Speaker 1 Wow, wow, wow. Thank goodness.

07:28 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, really.

07:29 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

07:30 Speaker 2 I got through that whole stage, but then I started running around. My name is Odel Ayala. Ayala, as in springy, never still for a moment. Almost every couple of months, I’d sprain my ankle, my wrist, my knee. I remember one day in eighth grade, we were playing a game like leapfrog, where one girl—

07:52 Speaker 1 Yes, yes.

07:52 Speaker 2 Crouches down, and everyone runs up, plants their hands and does a split in the air—

07:56 Speaker 1 Over her.

07:56 Speaker 2 So I did a split like that, fell, and injured both my arms badly.

08:00 Speaker 1 Wow.

08:00 Speaker 2 Hairline fractures, broken bones, sprains. I had casts on both arms, held against my chest, for three months.

08:07 Speaker 1 Wow.

08:09 Speaker 2 Yes, all that too. Oh, it was nothing, really—we’d gotten used to it by then.

08:14 Speaker 1 But how did you get through all that as a child? You really sound like some kind of—

08:17 Speaker 2 A crazy, crazy life. Yes, yes.

08:18 Speaker 1 Wow. Do you have any brothers or sisters?

08:21 Speaker 2 I do, yes. I have four siblings: a sister and three wonderful, amazing, sweet brothers.

08:27 Speaker 1 Are they all healthy and whole? Are they...

08:29 Speaker 2 Healthy? Come on, all of us are.

08:30 Speaker 1 Arms and legs intact.

08:32 Speaker 2 My sister was always so gentle, she was always—

08:35 Speaker 1 You got all of it.

08:36 Speaker 2 I got all of it, yes, all the wildness. Though my brothers also had injuries here, falls—

08:40 Speaker 1 Oh my gosh.

08:41 Speaker 2 I mean, we were really—

08:42 Speaker 1 A lot going on in—

08:43 Speaker 2 Kids, kids who—we really survived life.

08:46 Speaker 1 Wow.

08:46 Speaker 2 Really, really. And on top of all that, of course, there was my mother’s very difficult financial situation. She was the sole breadwinner, and back then there weren’t all these charities and funds. There were just the very basics: Yad Eliezer, Chasdei Naomi. I don’t remember exactly what Chasdei Naomi brought us—groceries—and Yad Eliezer—

09:05 Speaker 1 Maybe food for Shabbos, if they had Shabbos food there.

09:08 Speaker 2 Yes, oil, flour, sugar. We always remember, when we talk about it here at the Shabbos meal, and laugh about how we’d go to Mrs. Kletzkin and beg her to swap our can of purple eggplant for corn.

09:21 Speaker 1 Oh my gosh.

09:21 Speaker 2 For corn. Please, corn! That was our joy in life. And we grew up and grew up and grew up, and I went on to a boarding school up north. I enjoyed it tremendously. I really, really enjoyed it there, because suddenly it was something—

09:36 Speaker 1 High-school age.

09:37 Speaker 2 High-school age, yes. I mean, I still did ninth grade in Ramot, but even there they already sensed, somehow, that I was, um...

09:44 Speaker 1 Done with it.

09:44 Speaker 2 Yes, done with it. I wasn’t really on track, with the energy, with... And my mother, you know, she was out all day—

09:49 Speaker 1 It’s so painful to hear—

09:51 Speaker 2 So she couldn’t make us lunch, you know, or sit and study with us. And I fell through the cracks in so many, many areas. So they genuinely thought boarding school would be a place where things would be good for us.

10:02 Speaker 1 Yes.

10:03 Speaker 2 And... once I got up north, I spent a whole year feeling, “That’s it. I’ve found my place. This is wonderful!” Socially, I fitted in perfectly.

10:12 Speaker 1 Now you’re trying to make yourself liked.

10:15 Speaker 2 Because listen, besides, there were all sorts of girls from the suburbs, from all kinds of interesting homes. And somehow, with my street smarts, I immediately thought, “Come on, take me as an Ashkenazi girl.” I did a very distinctive braid, too. I showed up in a button-down shirt, and right away I really got off to a very, very good start. But then suddenly, one fine day, I felt pain in my heart. More medical tests, and I had severe heart failure.

10:42 Speaker 1 Wow.

10:42 Speaker 2 It was looking very—

10:43 Speaker 1 How old were you, fifteen?

10:44 Speaker 2 Fourteen and a half, fifteen. Yes, yes.

10:47 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

10:47 Speaker 2 So even then, I was going to the doctors alone. Why alone? When I came to tell my mother, she said, “Oh! If anyone finds out, you’ll never get married. Be careful that nobody finds out you’re ill.”

10:58 Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, oh my gosh.

10:59 Speaker 2 So at that moment, of course, it became a secret. She wouldn’t know, and neither would anyone else. And... that’s how it was. Yes, I carried it for quite a few years.

11:07 Speaker 1 Wow.

11:08 Speaker 2 My shidduchim were terrible, too, because I’m the daughter of a ger tzedek, a righteous convert. Oh, I didn’t tell you that. I’m the daughter of a ger tzedek.

11:16 Speaker 1 An Ashkenazi ger tzedek, wow.

11:18 Speaker 2 An Ashkenazi from Germany—and my mother is from a Tunisian family of kohanim in Netanya. So that’s quite a combination. The shidduch world was absolutely terrible for me. It really was—

11:30 Speaker 1 Strange.

11:31 Speaker 2 It was like, “Wait, she’s Sephardi, so we have loads and loads and loads of possibilities. Wait, she also doesn’t have a father, so here’s a bachelor over fifty who has a father. And wait, money—here’s someone very wealthy, but he’s divorced with four children. So what? At least she’ll have money.” They tried to match me with anyone who came along—because of my Sephardi side, my Ashkenazi side, my ger tzedek side, money, poverty, everything. I met dozens of young men. I think close to a hundred.

11:56 Speaker 1 Wow, wow, wow, wow.

11:58 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

11:59 Speaker 1 You could do a whole... yes.

12:00 Speaker 2 Whenever I get to that in my talks, I actually stop. I can’t go on. Please, give me a round of applause.

12:06 Speaker 1 Listen, it’s unbelievable.

12:07 Speaker 2 Unbelievable, completely unbelievable.

12:08 Speaker 1 How many years did that whole shidduch period last?

12:10 Speaker 2 That whole shidduch period, um, yes, I won’t put this part on the podcast, but there was a certain part of it that—

12:17 Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, what a story. I’m still recovering from that. What was that?

12:19 Speaker 2 Almost, um, almost three full years.

12:21 Speaker 1 That takes tremendous inner strength.

12:22 Speaker 2 Yes, really, really, really.

12:24 Speaker 1 At that point, had you already recovered from all the...

12:26 Speaker 2 No, not at all. Recovered? I was still carrying the secret of my life. A closely guarded secret; I told no one. I even went and asked two leading Torah authorities, “Do I have to say that I have a heart condition?” They told me, “You have to ask the cardiologist. If you can give birth normally even once, you don’t have to tell anyone.” Once. Just one is enough. So I told no one. But could I really do that? In the end, a month before my wedding to Aharon, I felt—I said to Odel, “Wait, I’m sorry. I feel so deeply that he’s the one from the root of my soul. I have to tell him. I can’t, I can’t marry him with—”

12:57 Speaker 1 You felt like it would be a kind of deception.

12:59 Speaker 2 “Here’s someone who loves me so much and tells me I’m so sweet and wonderful and amazing. He should know.” So the night before the meeting where I was going to see him, I wrote everything down. Then I sat with him in a hotel lobby. I remember handing him several pages to read—

13:16 Speaker 1 Oh my gosh.

13:16 Speaker 2 And my heart—I was just about to pass out. Really, really. I was thinking, let’s see how he reacts. How am I going to tell him this?

13:22 Speaker 1 And your heart, um...

13:24 Speaker 2 How could he accept a wife who wasn’t healthy?

13:26 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

13:26 Speaker 2 You have to decide now. And he read and read and read and read. Then, at the end, he took out a pen, and I thought, “Oh no, what’s he going to write? ‘This was a mistaken bargain—get me out of here’?”

13:37 Speaker 1 A pig in a poke.

13:38 Speaker 2 A pig in a poke. “‘You’re nice, but I’m not up to this.’” I had no idea what he was going to write. And then he wrote something incredibly moving. I always told him, “You managed to fit every single most romantic sentence in the world into that note.” I think that was it—he just wrote. He said to me, “I will never leave you.”

14:01 Speaker 1 Oh my gosh, that’s so moving.

14:04 Speaker 2 That was it. From that moment, a stone—a boulder, a whole building—lifted off my heart.

14:10 Speaker 1 Wow.

14:10 Speaker 2 I’d spent years hiding it. It was this secret I kept—

14:12 Speaker 1 That’s terrible.

14:12 Speaker 2 With so much anxiety.

14:13 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

14:13 Speaker 2 You can’t even imagine it, but I’ll give you an example so you understand. I’d make an appointment at the hospital’s cardiology department. I’d walk into the hospital and see lots of charedim. Immediately I’d think, “Oh no, everyone’s looking at me.” I was living in this movie where the whole world was talking about me, right? So I’d go up to the department and hide at the beginning of the corridor, because I’d see someone who looked charedi there, and I’d worry he’d tell someone, “I saw Odel Kliger in the cardiology department.” So I’d run around using all the elevators, hiding, trying to see where my appointment was. It was a whole drama, and I was alone. Alone, alone, alone. Really crazy, crazy. Um, that’s it. And then, thank G-d, we got married.

14:48 Speaker 1 Oh.

14:50 Speaker 2 It was incredibly moving and special. He knew my secret, and it was amazing. Then, a year after the wedding, we met with my cardiologist, and he told me, “Good, I’m very glad. But there’s one small procedure: you need to have a cardiac catheterization.”

15:05 Speaker 1 Oh my gosh.

15:05 Speaker 2 So I was hospitalized again, and this time they put in a stent, a balloon, so that, with Hashem’s help, we could bring a healthy baby into the world. I went through that stage too. And yes, life began moving along in a really good, enjoyable way. How wonderful! I had found my home, my place, my life, everything. And af—well, after two years, I gave birth to my second son—

15:31 Speaker 1 Wow.

15:31 Speaker 2 Whose name is Nosson Menachem Mendel.

15:34 Speaker 1 Wow.

15:36 Speaker 2 Yes.

15:36 Speaker 1 A name from every world.

15:37 Speaker 2 But I’ll tell you why. Wait, do you want to pause for a second? I have to show you why we named him—

15:41 Speaker 1 Show me, show me. I can edit this afterward.

15:43 Speaker 2 Okay, okay, okay. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Stories from the Rebbe’s Room. My husband—

15:49 Speaker 1 That’s interesting.

15:50 Speaker 2 My husband came to see me at Tel Hashomer Hospital, and he said, “Odel, what are we calling this baby?” I looked at him and said, “I don’t know. I don’t know.” He said, “Isn’t there a name you want?” Because we’d named Ephraim after my father. So I didn’t know; I didn’t have a name. Then that afternoon he came to me and said, “Odel, I’m leaving you this book. I read it, and I want you to read it. What do you say?” Now, I’m not someone who reads. I don’t—I can’t concentrate, I can’t focus, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t. And I read—

16:20 Speaker 1 While you were in the hospital.

16:20 Speaker 2 Story after story—

16:21 Speaker 1 It gave you inspiration.

16:22 Speaker 2 I don’t know. Story after story after story. I remember my husband came that evening, or the next morning, and I told him, “I have a name. His name is Menachem Mendel.”

16:30 Speaker 1 Oh, wow!

16:31 Speaker 2 “What?” he said. “We’re not Chabadniks.” I told him, “I don’t know what to tell you.” I look at his face, and that’s his name.

16:38 Speaker 1 Wow.

16:39 Speaker 2 I was stunned.

16:39 Speaker 1 Wait, so you added Nosson too.

16:42 Speaker 2 Nosson—we’re Breslov chassidim.

16:43 Speaker 1 Right, so that’s...

16:43 Speaker 2 So he’s Nosson Menachem Mendel, and day to day we call him Mendy.

16:47 Speaker 1 Really?

16:47 Speaker 2 Mendy.

16:48 Speaker 1 How about that.

16:50 Speaker 2 Yes.

16:50 Speaker 1 So the poor kid thinks he’s a Chabadnik.

16:51 Speaker 2 No, but do you want to see? Do you want to see what Chabad is? Can you see the picture? Stand here.

16:55 Speaker 1 Where?

16:56 Speaker 2 Stand here.

16:56 Speaker 1 Wait. Oh, I see the frame.

16:58 Speaker 2 You see the frame?

16:59 Speaker 1 Oh, the picture I have at home too.

17:01 Speaker 2 No, nobody else has this one.

17:02 Speaker 1 No? Isn’t it from Hidabroot?

17:03 Speaker 2 No, no, no. You won’t see anyone else with one this size.

17:05 Speaker 1 Oh, wow. We’ll have to show it separately afterward. How beautiful!

17:11 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, yes.

17:12 Speaker 1 Wow, wow, wow.

17:13 Speaker 2 Yes, so—

17:14 Speaker 1 It really brings all the different worlds together.

17:15 Speaker 2 We really do draw from all the different worlds, yes.

17:17 Speaker 1 That’s it.

17:17 Speaker 2 Chabad and Breslov and Rav Kook and Amshinov. We really—

17:23 Speaker 1 You enjoy all of them.

17:24 Speaker 2 Very much. And I wear a wig, and I also—

17:26 Speaker 1 Yes, I noticed.

17:28 Speaker 2 I wear dresses, and I wear jeans, and I wear flats, and there’s no, no, no, no, no—

17:32 Speaker 1 So every day you get up and wear whatever you feel like.

17:34 Speaker 2 Exactly, exactly.

17:35 Speaker 1 Yes.

17:35 Speaker 2 I’ll tell you why. All my life, I felt I had to fit in and put myself in a category: “They’ll like me if I wear this.” Enough! Only Hashem loves me.

17:46 Speaker 1 Right.

17:46 Speaker 2 Only Hashem. So really, from the moment I let go of what the world thought, brushed it off, I simply started living my life.

17:53 Speaker 1 No, you transcend all the different groups. That’s the best.

17:55 Speaker 2 Exactly.

17:56 Speaker 1 How about that. Wow. So wait, this is after you’ve been married for a few years, with two children, against all odds.

18:02 Speaker 2 Four years, I mean—

18:03 Speaker 1 Four years.

18:04 Speaker 2 Ephraim was born after two years.

18:06 Speaker 1 Oh, after the catheterization?

18:07 Speaker 2 Yes, after the catheterization came Ephraim—

18:09 Speaker 1 Wow, like a rebel.

18:10 Speaker 2 And two years later Mendy was born. And then it was like, that’s it. Wonderful, you’re parents of two children, and that’s that. Lovely. So I said to Him, “What do You mean?” I mean, what about a daughter?

18:20 Speaker 1 We were settled.

18:21 Speaker 2 I don’t... you want someone to blame? It wasn’t quite—

18:25 Speaker 1 Complete.

18:25 Speaker 2 Yes. So I really begged the Master of the Universe. I said to Him, “Master of the Universe, please bring me joy, bring me joy.” And Hashem gave us a daughter.

18:34 Speaker 1 Wow, wow.

18:34 Speaker 2 We named her Rosa Liba.

18:36 Speaker 1 Wow.

18:37 Speaker 2 That name is close to my heart. Yes, I’m going to get my drink, one second.

18:40 Speaker 1 That’s so moving, honestly.

18:42 Speaker 2 Yes, it really is...

18:46 Speaker 1 How old is she today?

18:47 Speaker 2 Libi is nine and a half now.

18:49 Speaker 1 No way!

18:50 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, such a sweetheart.

18:52 Speaker 1 Wow.

18:52 Speaker 2 She has such feeling, a special sensitivity. That girl really, really has a special sensitivity. Oh, and then, boruch Hashem, four years later, after a whole journey involving the Rebbe of Amshinov, Rav Kook, requests and prayers and all that, our youngest son was born.

19:09 Speaker 1 Wow.

19:09 Speaker 2 His name is Yaakov Aryeh. We call him Ari. And they say that everyone has his bread in his basket, right?

19:18 Speaker 1 Right.

19:18 Speaker 2 Every child brings his own livelihood with him and all that. But the truth is, when Ari was born, financially we were still squeezed into our previous home. It was really a very, very small, cramped place, and things were very, very hard.

19:28 Speaker 1 You were living here in Beitar.

19:29 Speaker 2 We were living in Beitar, in a relatively very small apartment. And then there were so many prayers—and what wasn’t there? And this enormous faith that Hakadosh Boruch Hu can do anything, that He is the One who can give to me, that I deserve it, that I’m a daughter of the King. I don’t have a father, but He’ll look after me, and He’s the only One I rely on. And Hakadosh Boruch Hu really gave us all this great blessing—

19:51 Speaker 1 Wow, that’s so moving.

19:53 Speaker 2 Beyond all reason. Yes, absolutely. It was as though He actually changed the way the bankers thought. They didn’t realize who they were going to give the money to, or what they were going to give us—

20:00 Speaker 1 Wow.

20:01 Speaker 2 So boruch Hashem, we really did buy this house and build it, and everything was wonderful. And throughout all of this, my mother lived right here in the building next to me. My mother was close to us; she would come over and everything. But the truth is, my relationship with my mother was very, very... not smooth. Not smooth at all. Ever since I was orphaned, I had a lot against her—a great deal against her. So much anger, so much resentment, so much... I don’t know how to explain it, shame about her, anger. Everything was all bottled up, and for years I couldn’t let go of it. I was married already and still couldn’t let go. I kept judging her, criticizing her, reproaching her. I was having children and still doing it. My children were getting older, and they were already talking back to me, and I was still talking about her. Wow. Yes. But then, just before Sukkos about twenty-four months ago, she was... she was living here in the building next to me. And, as an aside, I should mention that my mother-in-law is here, and my mother lived right here in the building next to me. So my mother was sitting with me here on the— Wait, where is your mother-in-law? She’s at work. Yes, yes. Oh, she lives with you. Yes, yes. Oh, I thought you just meant... No, no, no. Really, really. Wow. Yes, we really are... Shabbos. Yes, yes. Boruch Hashem— Wow. My mother was sitting with me here on the balcony, and we had this conversation. She was saying, “Enough, Odel, what do you want from me?” Wow. “Why do you want so badly to change me? Why do you keep reproaching me and getting angry at me?” And I’m telling you, I suddenly opened up and told her that I didn’t know, but something, something had shifted inside me. So she said to me, “Odel, enough. Let go. I’m your mother.

21:40 Speaker 2 Accept me as your mother already.” Wow. And she really said to me, “Enough. You have everything. You have a home, you have a husband, you have—you have everything. Don’t you want a mother too?” And that was a very... I haven’t even told you anything about my whole journey with her— Yes. —but I actually said to my mother, “You know what? Pray for me. Call me. I want to, and I feel it when you talk to me about joy and joy and joy.” No, most of my life didn’t have a drop of joy in it. I was always protecting myself. I was always holding myself back, bitter, suppressing all my desires, suppressing everything just so someone would love me, so someone would make me happy, so I could— Wow. —have a place in this world. That was my life: trying to have a place in this world. And sadly, after my mother and I had that conversation, she flew to Uman to visit my brother, and she got COVID there. I remember that. We brought her back to Israel. A plane—a flight, yes. An emergency flight; everyone pulled together. It was really something extraordinary. And after she’d been here for a week, she passed away. Oh, no. Which meant I was back in that place of being alone again. I have no father, no mother. I have children, I have a husband, I have family, brothers and sisters—everything, everything is wonderful. But you know, if we’re really talking about joy... wait a second, I suddenly feel like crying. Just give me a minute— Oh. Usually I don’t—there’s no waiting a minute; I cry straightaway. But it would be a shame to ruin the makeup I put on this morning. Oh, yes, yes, I got here early.

23:09 Speaker 2 So I don’t ruin your makeup. Right. Um, so when we talk about joy, I really feel it’s right for me to speak about it, and about coping, even today, when I’m seeing counselors and a psychologist. I know I can’t just wave a wand over my life’s journey and say, “It’s over. Come back to life.” No. Right. It’s day by day, moment by moment. But when I talk to you about working on joy, you can have a week—and this is what I always tell my viewers—when everything is amazing. The whole world loves you. You’re so talented, and even the kids are suddenly so nice. Listen, their ears are open, they cooperate, they even put everything back where it belongs. And suddenly you feel like making meals, and everything is wonderful. Then another week comes, and you’re saying, “What am I doing in this world? I don’t have the strength to get up. I just want to stay in bed.” It’s always almost like depression, and I don’t feel like doing anything. Why am I doing this? And so on and so on. The highs and the drops are very, very steep. Women often say, “Wow, that’s not balanced.” Right, I’m not balanced in this life at all. And there are many, many more like me. Right. Even sensitive women from wonderful families, with parents who functioned as well as could be, but with no room to feel or express what they were going through. And we are in the generation of the Geulah, no question. We don’t know whether it will be ten years, a hundred years, or a thousand years, but we’re already in that generation. Our souls are so sensitive. But come on, Chani, we lack nothing. Not clothes, not food—any of us. Okay, you know, even when people say to me, “Wow, you have so many clothes…”

24:51 Speaker 2 Sweethearts, until six months ago I bought everything from gemachs. The Nechama gemach in Beitar Illit—I was their spokesperson. Yes, exactly. Wow. I relied on gemachs; I bought from gemachs. And it was funny: people say, “Wow, the financial situation.” But in terms of abundance, today there’s everything for everyone. Right. There’s everything. It never used to be like this. Never. No, no. What sense does it make to announce an end-of-season sale every three months? Tell me, is that normal? No, it’s absurd. End-of-season sales used to come every three years. The pajamas with cars on them would be passed down through at least three kids. Yes, and pants would be mended. Absolutely. Today we really are a generation of abundance. You walk into the malls, into all the stores—Golf and Fox—and you say, “There’s no end to it.” So why aren’t we happy? That’s what I work and fight for every morning: the work of being joyful. Because when we get up in the morning, we’re really not doing ourselves or the people around us any favors. The headscarf’s half crooked, we’re in pajamas, with that face and those eyes. A few minutes later, suddenly you say, “Wow, how wonderful! What fresh energy, what a new mood!” And that truly is “Who, in His goodness, renews each day.” Hakadosh Boruch Hu does that for the sun, the moon, the stars, the sky. And as for us, if Hakadosh Boruch Hu has given us our soul back, we need to do our own “renewing each day”—to renew, with the goodness He gave me, what Hakadosh Boruch Hu has given me. Beautiful. And it isn’t easy at all. Right. We wake up to a new day, but it’s our responsibility to decide how that day will go for us. You know, I really love the part where we say Modeh Ani. How should I start my day? By giving thanks. First of all, give thanks. It doesn’t matter for what—even just for waking up. And the whole idea of…

26:34 Speaker 2 gratitude: the moment I’m grateful for what I have, I’m happy, because I can see—I can see the glass half full. I see what I have. I say, “Thank You, Hakadosh Boruch Hu, for what I have,” and that automatically awakens joy in me. That’s why Hakadosh Boruch Hu put those words at the beginning of every day. But I really mean this business of going against our nature. Hakadosh Boruch Hu created us joyful. It’s the yetzer hara that keeps leading us astray and catching us off guard. He knows that if he can get us down, he’s got us. You have energy, and you can do incredible shlichus and bring joy to people. But all he has to do is knock you down for a second. And if you don’t pull yourself together, thousands of women will lose out. So why wouldn’t he do it? Do you know how often he does that to me? Of course, of course. Do you know how often he does that to me? It’s crazy. Sometimes I think of what they say about the funny clown: you have no idea how depressed he is. Right. For all my desire to tell you, “Get up, get up, do something,” do you know how many times I say, “Forget it, go to sleep”? What do you mean, “forget it”? Forget it. I’m fighting a battle. Heaviness, such heaviness. After all, we came from dust; there really is this weight that just pulls us so far down. Right, right. Our job is to rise above it. You know what I want to tell you? I just remembered something funny. Go on. Last night I was looking at myself and thinking, I need to color a little bit of my hair here, tidy up my eyebrow a little—little renovations. Then I looked at my husband and said, “Do you understand how much a woman has to put herself through, how much she has to suffer, and after all that…?”

28:03 Speaker 2 “And you—you can just sit on the couch and take off your socks. You don’t care what’s going on with your beard; it doesn’t bother you at all. Meanwhile, look how much I worry about making myself beautiful and presentable. And then, ‘Your desire shall be for your husband’—so you do the work, you suffer, and in the end it’s all for you!” Yes, poor guy. I can see how you’re looking at me. Wow. So what else? Tell us a little, as a mother of a family. Yes. Without the evil eye, four children. How do you see joy as something essential? I say it’s essential, and I’m sure you agree, for a healthy family—healthy emotionally—and for a good education. After all, tomorrow I could tell my children, “Keep Shabbos, do this, do that.” But if the joy is missing, I think it all gets turned upside down. Yes, yes. How do you see it as a…? First of all, there really needs to be honesty at home. Honesty. Honesty in being open about feelings. If, for example, I’m angry right now or something, I can say to my son Mendy, or to Libi, or whoever it is, “I’m not at my best right now. Please don’t push me right now; I’m just not there.” Yes, I really can tell her that I’m not okay right now. But I know the power of music can change things in a second. It’s up to us. So true. And the dancing. Music is magic. It really is magic. We just turn it on, put it at full, full, full volume, act silly with them and dance with them. To me, that’s three hours of the very best education there could be. Wow. Right. Be happy, dance, enjoy yourselves—that’s it. Come on, it isn’t always like that in real life. But I do always try to point all of us in that direction. I think that a lot of the time, people feel that

29:51 Speaker 2 A little fake, like it’s just outward. So I’m not happy right now. So what? I’m going to put on music and start dancing? Who am I fooling? I’m fooling the yetzer hara—that’s the point. We really do need to be a little fake sometimes, to bring out joy even when we’re not feeling it. You know what? I’ll give you an example. This past Shabbos, something happened on Shabbos morning—never mind. I was setting the table here, and suddenly my husband told me, “We have guests.” I was like, “What? Oh, wow.” This cloud came over me: “Wait, excuse me, why didn’t you tell me?” A woman can be reluctant to have guests—that’s for sure. And I see my husband saying, “Why does it bother us? What’s the problem? They’re bringing food; everything’s taken care of.” What did we say? I found myself going into the room and opening this book, with [unclear] on the chairs. I opened it and said, “Hashem, I’m so angry right now, and my pride won’t let me go out and tell him, ‘You know what? Fine, I’ll go along with it.’” My pride wouldn’t let me. Really, with our husbands, there’s often that pride. Right. I went into the room and opened the book, and right there I saw a prayer for a couple: “Master of the Universe, help me let go of my anger. Help me accept my husband and understand him.” I was so moved. Listen, at that very moment I took a deep breath. I said to myself, “What, do you want to ruin the Shabbos table? Take a deep breath.” I went out, sat down on the couch, and acted as though nothing had happened. Wow. Listen, that took real strength on my part. First of all, I say, we really need to ask Hashem for mercy, because otherwise we can set the world on fire in a second—with our words, our behavior, our actions. Right. Very often it’s precisely people with a lot of energy. That can be very dangerous too. Yes,

31:24 Speaker 2 Right, I agree with you. People don’t see that. Listen, what do they see? They see the fun. They see all that. I’m very, very... Wow, that’s something. Joy also shows faith. After all, when we aren’t happy, we’re essentially saying that Hakadosh Boruch Hu is sending us bad things, that we have reason to be angry. But if we look more deeply, as they say, “Just as one blesses for the good, so one blesses for the bad.” Hakadosh Boruch Hu sends us only good. The question is how willing we are to look deeply, to see it and understand that Hakadosh Boruch Hu sends us these things. Yes, it’s not all confetti and chocolate, you know. Speaking of the month of Adar, do you know how they make us happy in Adar? [unclear]. Yay, how fun. But I’ll tell you, at my age—thirty-eight—I can say that Hakadosh Boruch Hu has never disappointed me. For years now, I’ve had this saying that’s always on my lips: In every harsh judgment there is hidden kindness. Even if I look back over time, everything I went through that seemed harsh ultimately held tremendous kindness that was hidden at the time. Wow. And that’s been true of one thing after another. You know, even with the heart surgery. Listen, I was dying. I was hanging between heaven and earth. I felt as though a semi-trailer had run me over and I was in pieces. I said, “Why did You wake me up? Why did You give me life in intensive care? Come on, You could have just taken me to You.” And today I say thank You. Look at the lowest place you were in. It was like, what else did you need? An orphan, sick, and this and that and that. And it was precisely from that point—I remember being in the hospital and saying,

32:55 Speaker 2 “Master of the Universe, in every harsh judgment there is hidden kindness, and I believe that with complete faith.” So that’s the saying I carry through my whole life, the one I repeat all the time. Hakadosh Boruch Hu truly is always good and does good. Right, we need to see it at the time. You know, sometimes we see it only in hindsight. Later we say, “Oh, what happened to me then—that was for the good.” But to believe it’s for the good at the very moment it’s happening—that’s the hard part. Because you can’t see it. Right. Two weeks ago, just before Shabbos, I took a fall here and dislocated my shoulder. An ambulance on Shabbos, off to the emergency room. Where’s the Shabbos table? Where’s the kindness? Oh, wow. I don’t know, but in the end I understood something from it. I worked on myself and understood something beyond nature: I have no pain at all in my arm. The last time I dislocated it, I couldn’t move my arm for almost two months. Wow. So everything—Hakadosh Boruch Hu is so good to us and guides us so precisely. First, we just have to pay attention and believe that everything here is being directed. I always say: this whole life is a movie. Right. There are dark parts of the movie, there are bright parts, and there are parts that are really colorful and beautiful, and then there are challenges again. But first of all, know that it passes. This too passes. Completely. The movie never stays on the same scene. Absolutely. Tell me, I wanted to ask you something. I once heard you say something very interesting that connects to this. We’re talking about joy, joy, joy. But in day-to-day life, when I get up, when I’m with the children, when I’m going about my day, I want my home to be happy and I want to have good energy. And Pesach is almost here too. Although, you know, it’s not nice to say this, but it’s a little stressful. No, no, in my house we don’t [unclear] on Pesach. That whole thing.

34:28 Speaker 2 You once talked about having high positive energy. Oh. And how sometimes we need to stop for a moment when we... I’ll give you... So I... Great. I’m really glad, because this is something practical. Yes. First of all, “Whoever repeats something in the name of the person who said it brings Geulah to the world.” I heard this from Mrs. Yael Zaltz Alfam[?]. Nice, I’ve heard her too. Yes. So here’s what she says: A woman, with the best of intentions, takes a day off work, for example, and says, “This morning I’m going to get things done. I’m going to get this room done, and that one, and that one, all the upper cupboards and all the lower cupboards. I’ll make lunch too, and the neighbor just had a baby, and I’ll do this and that and that and that.” Wonderful. And she starts on the room, right? She begins taking out all the clothes, taking everything out, with music playing in the background. Music. She says, “Listen to this energy! I’m going to finish all the rooms today.” She’s in such a wonderful, positive frame of mind. Except she hasn’t reckoned with the fact that suddenly it’s two o’clock, all the clothes are still out, and you can’t walk on the floor. Then it’s already a quarter to three and she has to leave to pick up her child from daycare. So at some point she stops everything. Yes, and suddenly her husband opens the door. She looks at him, and he has no idea what’s going on. In a second, all that high positive energy turns into high negative energy, and she starts shouting: “Can’t you see how hard I’m working? Look at the children! Take them, move, I’ll move this, I’m here, I’m there.” And that’s without even mentioning that, during all that high positive energy, she banged her elbow, nearly fell, and spilled something. She was moving at full speed, you know. And she just brushed it all aside. And what Yael

35:56 Speaker 2 So you’re saying—no, you don’t understand, this is what I explain all the time before Pesach. High positive energy is wonderful for the first hour and a half, but then you have to switch immediately to low positive energy. That means: stop for a moment. Low positive energy. Positive, but low. Something a little more relaxed. Make yourself a coffee, sit down and read a book, watch a video, draw something, put on something soothing, call your mother—take a moment to feel. Even just ten minutes is enough, but calm down for a moment. Then you go back to high positive energy. Do another drawer, another dresser, clear something else out. Right, control the pace. And then go low again. Go to the bathroom, eat a piece of fruit. Just come down from high positive energy to low—low positive energy. Otherwise, you start with high positive energy and get thrown into high negative energy. And from high negative energy, where do you immediately drop? Into low negative energy. And a complete collapse. Which means: okay, I don’t care, and I don’t care about the kids either. Fine, let the whole house be full of chametz. You go into your room. So... goodbye, Pesach. Goodbye. Don’t talk to me. That’s it, the celebration is over. Right. And this happens in the best of families, all the time. Wow. We need to know that our bodies aren’t Duracell batteries, fully charged from morning to night. If you’re fully charged, wonderful. Use a little of it, then take a moment to feel. Plug yourself into the charger. Plug yourself into the charger. Exactly. Watch something, listen to something, do something you love, and then carry on. And do it again. Otherwise, in a second it all plummets, the red light starts flashing, and Hashem protect the Jewish people. Wow, wow, wow. Listen. Yes, this is something every woman absolutely needs to know. Absolutely. Really. Listen, when it comes down to it, Purim, Pesach—we need to be joyful all year round. It’s not... We’re children of Hakadosh Boruch Hu. “It is a great mitzvah to always be joyful”—that’s

37:44 Speaker 2 really something that... I also notice in life that every woman has her own challenges. Well, you’ve really been through something, and I’m not comparing myself to you, but each woman has her own baggage. Sometimes I look around and it seems everyone has good energy, while I’m the only one thinking, “What’s wrong with me? What’s happening to me?” And how is she dancing, and how is she happy, and how is she doing all that? I really think that, as it says in Tanya, we need to know ourselves—to know that this is how we were created. We’re heavy, as you said; we were created from dust. We’re heavy, that’s where we are, and Hakadosh Boruch Hu tests us and tells us: “No, you need to fight this. You need to fight it, get up and be happy. This is where I’m testing you, and this is your victory.” It starts there. What, be happy like children? It’s the month of Adar, there are costumes—it’s beneath me. But really, whoever embraces that, as they say, gains everything—she does, her children do, and everyone around her does. Because when we’re happy, the people around us benefit, and we’re simply the best versions of ourselves. Absolutely. And more than that, women can often look at the outside. Come on, listen: she’s got everything in order, she has an amazing husband. Right. She has money, her children are well brought up, and on and on and on. So what does she have to complain about? Why is she grumbling? Or, on the other hand, there’s the woman whose whole life seems to be a mess, and all sorts of things like that. Another thing Hakadosh Boruch Hu has truly given me: I hear from hundreds of women a day who write to me. Listen, women from the very best, most beautiful families tell me, “No one would ever dream what I’m going through.” Yes, so often you hear women saying to someone, “What

39:20 Speaker 2 are you complaining about? Do you know what goes on in the oncology ward? Do you know what goes on?” And I say it’s such nonsense to tell them that. Does it have to come to that? No. No. You do need perspective in life, of course. But each woman’s soul is precisely matched to what she can bear. A woman could live in a golden cage. There could be billions there—money, diamonds, gold, and so on. But she doesn’t have a drop of love or happiness. So if she’s depressed right now, it doesn’t matter how much she has around her. She’s sad; she’s utterly miserable. Do you understand? That’s what I’m saying. It doesn’t matter who someone is or what she has. Each woman’s measure of joy and sorrow truly corresponds to what her soul is able to bear. Right. And this is something each woman needs to choose anew every day of her life, because Hashem really brings us these tests in life. And joy truly is the thing today. Come on. The thing today. May everyone have a joyful month. Amen. Amen. And may we truly always be joyful. Not just because we put on music or something like that, but because we really reach a place in the soul of joy—an inner joy. A joy that doesn’t depend on anything. Exactly. And that’s what we need to ask the Master of the Universe for. Absolutely. Actually say to Him: “Master of the Universe, make me happy. Master of the Universe, give me the desire to get up in the morning, to be good. Give me the strength to carry out my shlichus here, my purpose, my motherhood, my marriage—all of it.” Just keep asking for that. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, thank you, dear Odel. Thank you so much. Thank you so, so much.