Episode 7: Starting Off Right as a Kallah | With Chani Rabinovich, psychotherapist, kallah instructor and marriage counselor

00:01 Speaker 1 What small steps can bring about a big change in our marriage and become the foundation for stability in our lives? What does this have to do with body and soul? And how can tailored bridal guidance prevent problems down the road? A fascinating conversation with Chani Rabinowitz opens a window onto a whole world of marriage from a different perspective. How can we turn our lives into lives of shlichus, full of meaning? I’m Chani Moskowitz, a shlucha in Kharkiv, Ukraine. In this podcast, we’ll meet women who have brought their shlichus into a variety of fields. Through their stories, they’ll help each of us find and refine our own shlichus in the world. Because living the lives we were created to live is as good as it gets. Shlichus as a way of life. Let’s begin. Hello, hello, Chani Rabinowitz, psychotherapist, bridal and marital-intimacy educator, and marriage counselor. Chani, introduce yourself.

01:02 Speaker 2 Hello, nice to meet you, Chani. My name is Chani Rabinowitz, and I’m from Ramat Shlomo. I’m a mother of seven. And yes, I’m a psychotherapist, a bridal and marital-intimacy educator, and a marriage counselor.

01:14 Speaker 1 How did you get into this profession?

01:16 Speaker 2 Wow, it’s a long story. Many years ago, around ten or twelve years ago, I studied psychotherapy. I worked with many women and girls who had lots of problems that seemed very simple, but reached into their family lives and the wider circle around them. As we began talking more deeply and really exploring things, I realized there was so much they could change within themselves, in their self-love: Who am I? What am I doing in this world? With many of them, I delved into issues in their intimate and married lives, and I realized there were many problems we needed to address that aren’t talked about in the chareidi community. So I went to study and specialize at the Yael Center in Tel Aviv, where they teach marital intimacy. From there, I also expanded my skills in working with couples’ dynamics. When I saw how much there was to work on, and how many distorted ideas people had taken away from the guidance they’d received for marriage, I decided to offer bridal guidance in the most beautiful, genuine way, with the right tools and guidance for a happy life.

02:29 Speaker 1 Wow. An updated version of bridal guidance, basically.

02:32 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

02:34 Speaker 1 Wow. Tell me a little about the statistics; it’s interesting. In the chareidi community and outside it—divorce, marriage.

02:41 Speaker 2 Well, there’s before COVID, and there’s since COVID.

02:45 Speaker 1 Wow.

02:46 Speaker 2 Today, they say it’s one in three in the secular community, about thirty percent. And unfortunately, the percentages are rising in the chareidi community too. Of course, since COVID we’re seeing it much, much more. There’s work to be done, and we need to do it. That’s our shlichus here: to help everyone however we can.

03:06 Speaker 1 It’s an amazing profession. It’s truly a shlichus, one hundred percent. You’re actually saving homes.

03:13 Speaker 2 Absolutely. It’s a moving shlichus, and it’s deeply satisfying when I see a home rebuilt from the beginning, or when I help establish a home. It really gives me tremendous satisfaction.

03:24 Speaker 1 Chani, tell me—we can set aside the fact that every single person is different, every woman is different, each with her own personality. But Hakadosh Boruch Hu created men and women as opposites from the outset. There are gaps between us, but, as they say, that’s the system. Even though we’re opposites, we get married, and that’s really the secret. But when we’re not aware enough of those differences, it causes a lot of problems, brings a lot of problems to the surface. What do you have to say about that?

03:53 Speaker 2 Okay, so first of all, the beauty of creation and of marriage is that Hakadosh Boruch Hu created man and woman. We enter into a relationship, an interaction as a couple, and there are so many differences between us. It’s very, very important to me to emphasize that and give it space: to understand, first of all, that the differences exist. Because when someone isn’t aware of them and insists there aren’t any—that everything looks the same, we grew up in the same neighborhood, we’re from the same community, our families know each other, and it all seems so familiar and obvious—I say that isn’t true. There are many differences between us. To begin with, we come from different families and different parents, and we’re male and female. So I sit down with couples and really talk about it. We go through a whole process of understanding that if we can look these differences in the eye, we can also learn how to work through them. The differences are there. The real question is how we bridge them and come together despite them. I want to start with the differences that sound the simplest and least challenging. But yes, even if we come from different communities or different families, of course there will be differences between our families. First, we have to understand that those differences exist. Once we do, we’ll have the strength and the tools to understand them. That’s on a level that might seem less important, but I do emphasize it and talk about it. We need to recognize even the more outward differences, which might seem to affect us less. But I go much deeper: into the differences in our mindsets, our ways of thinking, and our communication. A man thinks differently; a woman thinks differently. A woman can do ten things at once. A man needs to take things one at a time, and until he reaches his goal, he

05:50 Speaker 2 won’t move on. A woman can do everything in an instant. So we think differently. We speak differently, we feel differently, we communicate differently. There are also other differences, more focused on intimacy within the family and on family purity. When we learn to look at these differences, talk about them, and see them, it becomes much easier to bridge them.

06:17 Speaker 3 So I might say something to my husband, and he hears something else because he sees things differently, understands them differently, and we’re essentially not speaking the same language.

06:25 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

06:26 Speaker 3 And so many problems can come from a simple misunderstanding.

06:30 Speaker 2 Absolutely. I always compare the man to the sun—to strength, energy, and warmth. And the woman is the moon: she’s much more gentle, quieter. Sometimes she disappears, too, in our married life, with family purity. I actually see that image of the moon in a beautiful way. But we understand that there are big differences here. We understand that each has a different nature, and those differences really can lead to many arguments, a great deal of failed communication and a lot of misunderstanding. If we first learn what each person’s differences are, what each person needs, and what drives each of them—physically, emotionally, and mentally—and learn to look at that, it will be easier for us to start working and understanding. In our communication, our understanding, and every part of the couple’s dynamic, we’ll be better able to understand and know how to bridge those gaps.

07:26 Speaker 3 I’m curious whether you see a difference between couples who come to you because differences between them have caused all kinds of problems. Do you see a difference when a couple started out with a bigger gap—say, a bride and groom from different countries or different ethnic communities? Does that gap really have an effect, or are the issues more about differences in understanding? Do you see a difference?

07:52 Speaker 2 First of all, those differences clearly have an effect. There’s no question. Even when a young woman lives in central Israel and the young man lives nearby, there are differences between them. But first I want to explain that marriage takes work. When we bless a couple, we wish them a “binyan adei ad,” an everlasting building. Why do we say “building” and not “home”? Why not wish them an everlasting home? What’s a building? A building has much stronger foundations than a single house. A building has many rooms, many entrances, many windows. There’s work to do every day. A building is something we build throughout our lives. It isn’t something that’s ever finished: “I’ve finished building this home, and now I’m moving to another one.” There are so many elements to a building, and that’s why it takes work. The question is where each person is coming from, what they’re able to give in the marriage, and where they’re willing to compromise in light of their differences. Certainly, when people come from different countries or different communities, the gaps are much wider. But it comes down to each person: what they’re willing to take on, what they’re willing to build within themselves, and how much effort they’re willing to put into themselves. And when there’s a strong desire, the sky’s the limit.

09:05 Speaker 4 Wow. Chani, tell me, have you ever saved a couple from divorce?

09:12 Speaker 2 Wow, many.

09:14 Speaker 4 What an incredible feeling.

09:17 Speaker 2 Absolutely. The satisfaction is incredible. You feel that you’ve truly saved not just the lives of two people, but the life of a family and the lives of generations.

09:26 Speaker 4 Wow.

09:28 Speaker 2 It really is an incredible shlichus, with so, so much satisfaction.

09:32 Speaker 4 So, Chani, is there a particular story? Something from your practice?

09:37 Speaker 2 Okay, so I’ll bring an example from the clinic. Not long ago, a very young couple from the Chassidic community came to me. The woman came first, on her own, and I heard that she was in a very, very difficult emotional state and had even experienced repeated miscarriages. Of course, I began to explore things with her and understand what was happening between them, what was happening in their marriage. I realized they had received improper guidance and had some terribly distorted ideas. At the second meeting, I invited her husband, and we sat and talked. For a moment, it looked like it might end in divorce, as you said, but I certainly don’t decide that for anyone. When I saw the willingness and commitment of this newly married couple, who had started their marriage from such a terrible place—with bride and groom guidance that had left them with so many misconceptions, or perhaps things they had misunderstood—I knew something there had gone badly wrong. So we began taking slow steps, as I explained. First, I spoke with the woman alone, and we understood that she had very, very low self-worth. She had lost herself. She had come to see herself as a victim, as helpless. In my professional language, I call it, so to speak, begging for scraps within the marriage. With a great deal of therapy and a great deal of willingness from both of them, boruch Hashem, today they live happy, joyful lives. They also had a daughter not long ago, besha’ah tovah. I think that’s the greatest satisfaction and happiness I could find in the work I do in this world.

11:20 Speaker 4 Wow. So it was ostensibly a marital problem, but the treatment went so much deeper.

11:24 Speaker 2 Absolutely. It was therapy—

11:25 Speaker 4 It’s rooted in something, and you also have to change your whole way of thinking to be able to work on yourself.

11:33 Speaker 2 You don’t start from zero; you start from below zero, as they say. They come into the marriage with a very, very, very big deficit. And slowly, at a snail’s pace, one tiny step at a time, with patience, with their tremendous willingness, and at their own pace—doing what was right for them, tailored specifically to them—based on all the questions I asked and everything I saw in their relationship, boruch Hashem, after a great deal of work and after building the foundations properly, they reached a happy life.

12:11 Speaker 4 Wow. It’s amazing, too, boruch Hashem, to see that a couple didn’t just find themselves in trouble: they also knew to ask for help, work on themselves, and save their marriage. And when your marriage is good, everything else feels manageable. It’s simply a gift for life.

12:25 Speaker 2 Completely. When the marriage is good, the whole home lights up. We light up the souls of everyone in the home, the very air and atmosphere of the home.

12:33 Speaker 4 Wow. I wanted to ask whether there’s a particularly moving moment you remember, but it sounds as though every course of therapy is a moving moment in its own right.

12:43 Speaker 2 I do want to say that, of course, I give couples very focused guidance about their marriage, but I’ve also taken on the work of guiding brides. I want to give each woman what she needs, based on where she’s coming from. Something isn’t necessarily right for a particular woman just because her friend went through it or her aunt told her about it. I really sit with each one, ask questions, and give her the guidance that’s right for her, because it matters to me that a bride leaves our meetings feeling as open and secure as possible, with a sense of stability and confidence about marriage. I think that’s the essence of a happy married life.

13:22 Speaker 4 Yes, starting off properly, rather than reaching the point where there are problems you have to treat and all of that. So what actually is a red flag? I’m curious whether you think that, even if a couple doesn’t feel there’s a problem in their marriage, there’s always room to improve, as people say about all sorts of things. Can things always be better, or should they come only when there’s a problem? What red flags bring people to you?

13:50 Speaker 2 First of all, I recommend not waiting for red flags. As part of my guidance, I also give couples the option of coming for another meeting. After the bride and I have built a good, open, communicative relationship and explored what she needs, she and her husband can come after the wedding feeling much more confident. There’s no need to wait for problems or red flags. On the contrary, the couple wants to live a good, happy, joyful life. That’s why I recommend that every couple simply come and gain tools for a secure, stable marriage. It brings peace and calm to the whole relationship.

14:30 Speaker 4 Wow. So really, every couple can find something with you. It’s basically...

14:37 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

14:37 Speaker 4 Part of life.

14:38 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

14:40 Speaker 4 Because it’s interesting. Marriage includes little crises, and sometimes a couple doesn’t know: “Do we have a problem? Maybe we need therapy? Or don’t we have a problem?” And sometimes there’s simply no one to ask. You don’t talk about these things with the people around you. So you’re saying that, whatever it is, at worst it won’t hurt to ask.

15:00 Speaker 2 Right. In the guidance I give brides, I really bring in real life and practical tools, too. I don’t talk only about the first year; I talk about far beyond that. We discuss all kinds of problems that come up. We talk a lot about conflicts and tools for resolving them. We talk about differences, as we discussed, and about arguments. We talk about so many aspects of married life, where little problems arise here and there when you’re in a relationship with another person. So when a bride comes to learn, I try to give her all the tools she needs to feel secure and at ease in her marriage. Of course, I tell her that it’s all theory until she gets married. Once they’re married, I’d like to see them together and help them build their marriage together, with tools for a good marriage.

15:50 Speaker 4 Yes, it’s interesting to learn from a notebook about something you haven’t actually experienced yet.

15:54 Speaker 2 Right. Even though I really try to give them the right content and the right feeling as they set out toward a good, happy life, of course there’s a before and an after. Just as we give them general support in all kinds of areas of their lives, I think there’s no question that we also need to support them in building a healthy, happy marriage and give them reliable tools to keep their marriage going at the pace that’s right and good for them.

16:30 Speaker 5 Has a bride ever come back to you after a few years and said, “Chani, that thing you told me—wow, I’m so glad you said it”? Things she presumably didn’t fully understand at the time. Has that happened?

16:45 Speaker 2 It happens a lot, boruch Hashem, with Hashem’s help. The shlichus here is incredible, and I know I’m doing something tremendous. They’re so impressed by the knowledge, the tools, the support. Even afterward, they feel they truly received the most I could give them toward a good, healthy marriage.

17:09 Speaker 5 It’s so important. Think about it: a person gets up in the morning. What do they do all day? They invest in their finances, their home, their children, their clothes. What don’t we put thought and time into? Yet marriage, which is really the foundation of everything, can sometimes seem like something to take for granted, something automatic that just happens. But it’s actually the first thing we should invest in.

17:35 Speaker 2 Absolutely. Our Sages already said, “Because he is accustomed to her, he grows weary of her.” And we really do feel that there’s a great deal of wear and tear in our marriages. It becomes part of our day-to-day routine, as you said, and everything just stays the same. I want to say that you have to invest in a marriage, make an effort, and think afresh at every moment about what comes next. What can we do? How can we communicate more? How can we deepen that communication? How can we be more available to one another? We need to keep thinking about giving, about being there for the other person. And we need to remember the days before we were married, when we were a bride and groom and our thoughts were constantly on the person we were going to marry: how we could surprise them, what we could do, what we could give for them. Life wears us down. So I really ask every couple to think afresh each morning about how to begin our Modeh Ani in our marriage, too.

18:40 Speaker 5 It’s not a luxury; it’s truly an obligation.

18:43 Speaker 2 An obligation and a privilege for every couple.

18:45 Speaker 5 Something worth doing.

18:46 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

18:47 Speaker 5 Chani, what tip do you have? Girls who aren’t married yet are listening, too, and they might be thinking, “What do I know about marriage?” But some things you hear beforehand stay with you for life. Is there a golden tip you’d want every girl to know—something absolutely essential?

19:05 Speaker 2 Wow, you’re really challenging me, because every part of it is a must. But I’ll try very hard to give you the essence. A lot of brides come and ask me, “Give us the tip. Give us the essence of married life. Give us the right formula for making it as good as it can possibly be.” I think that, before and after everything else, it’s respect. We need to respect our spouse and understand that every person deserves respect, no matter where they came from or what they’ve done. If we’ve decided to get married, there has to be mutual respect in our relationship. Respect gives us a sense of security, and that security brings peace to our home, to our ark. It’s what holds us together. Home is a feeling of calm and peace. It’s the ark of our marriage, and I think respect is the very essence of married life. But you’re challenging me, and I can’t stop at respect. Respect is the foundation, and I’d add communication. I talk a lot about intimate, open communication with our spouse: being present, understanding what each person needs, talking and sharing even things that seem tiny or silly to you. That’s what builds an emotional connection, and that’s the connection we want to build gradually in our marriage, so we can reach love, closeness, peace and friendship. Wow. But then you really need to bring your husband along, because he needs to know this too. Right. To make sure you’re on the same page. Right, but since I meet with the bride first, in our initial sessions, this is the first thing I talk about. Communication opens the way for the healthiest, safest and most open conversations. When a person feels secure, it’s much easier for them

21:15 Speaker 2 throughout the relationship and with all the challenges ahead of them. So start talking. Start being honest and genuine, and don’t be embarrassed. What feels right for you? What do you need? What works for you? Really start talking and communicating. It opens hearts. Wow, that’s so important. Okay, Chani, people get married and the years go by. Here I am, almost nine years married. Wow, it’s unbelievable. So give us old-timers a tip too, ten years down the road. Something new, some fresh insight. Okay, I don’t have anything new to offer. I can only help us focus. I always like to tell the story of a renowned cardiologist who came to the Rebbe and asked him the secret to a good marriage. “I see patients from all over the world, around the clock, and give them the best care I possibly can. But when it comes to my home, my ark, my wife—that seems beyond me. My patience runs out… Wow. Everything just disappears.” So he came to the Rebbe with that question, asking for an answer, and the Rebbe told him to take a lesson from the Rebbe and the Rebbetzin, who would meet every day at five o’clock for a cup of tea. It means being present with each other and making even ten or fifteen minutes of uninterrupted time for your relationship, to talk and share with each other. We’re not the Rebbe and the Rebbetzin, but I do give this tip, because I think it can change any couple’s life. Choose a particular day and make it a standing date. Pick whichever day works for you, but make it your day. Go out and spend time together. Not with your phones or social media—with your spouse. When we make this a regular part of our lives, it gives us security. It gives each couple something to look forward to: that day when they can

23:20 Speaker 2 be present, do something together, go out and enjoy themselves. Sometimes it’s coffee; sometimes it’s a date. It gives you something to look forward to in your marriage, a regular ritual that brings security to your relationship. Stability. Maybe we should also say what not to talk about when you meet. Don’t talk about the kids; don’t talk about work. Exactly, exactly. Don’t start settling scores. That’s not the time; settle those things somewhere else. Sacred time. It’s sacred time to enjoy being together as a couple, in a way that works for both of us. We’re here for each other. Make the effort. Hire a babysitter. Absolutely, absolutely. Get dressed up, plan a date, think of a place you’d like to go, and do it. I also think it’s a tip for staying young. Absolutely. Keep going out together and… Beautiful. Chani, let’s end on an optimistic note. A few words to close, and how can people reach you? How do they find you? Boruch Hashem, we’re making the effort and seeing results. I truly wish every woman would put the tips we’ve discussed into practice: good communication, a good relationship and listening to each other. With Hashem’s help, you can have a happy, peaceful, stable and secure life. You’re welcome to come see me. So how do people reach you, Chani? Okay, I’ve expanded my hours, and I now see people both in Jerusalem and in Kfar Chabad, which is in the central region. My phone number is 050-40-30-507. I look forward to seeing anyone—from a newly engaged young woman to a young couple just starting their marriage, and couples further along too. You’re warmly invited to invest in what matters most. Thank you, Chani. Thank you so much. My pleasure.