Guide to Buying and Selling a Car According to Halacha – Preparing a Car for Sale

00:02 Speaker 1 You’re listening to the “Lemaan Yishme’u” podcast from Machon Halacha Chabad.

00:09 Speaker 2 Today we’ll begin a few classes on buying and selling a used car. This is really a kind of summary of various things we’ve learned before. In the past, we focused more on stores—on a seller and a buyer in a store. Today it’s secondhand sales, more a matter of private individuals dealing with one another. Some of the questions are similar, and some are different. When selling a car, right? I want to talk about both the buyer and the seller, in chronological order. So first, before a seller puts his car up for sale, he prepares it. There are many possibilities here. Some things we can see for ourselves are problematic, while others fall somewhere in the middle and need discussion. We’ll start with the most serious and work our way down. Someone changes the mileage on a car. That is certainly problematic. I don’t know how it works today with digital odometers, but it was certainly possible with mechanical ones. People did it. It does clash somewhat with the vehicle registration, which sometimes records exactly how many kilometers the car had at the time of its inspection. So that is an act that is completely—there’s no question that it’s forbidden. But there are things that fall somewhere in the middle. I’ll give an example.

01:44 Speaker 4 So why is it forbidden?

01:47 Speaker 2 Forbidden? It’s certainly forbidden. Certainly.

01:49 Speaker 4 No.

01:49 Speaker 2 Yes, there’s no question. Now, the next stage: a person has smoke coming out of his car. Smoke is coming out. You know, there’s white smoke, blue smoke, all kinds of smoke.

02:03 Speaker 4 Yellow, too.

02:04 Speaker 2 Yes, it indicates a problem. Now he can temporarily add something that stops the smoke from coming out, and then sell the car. But that’s like a Band-Aid. He isn’t really fixing the problem. Sometimes doing that even makes it worse.

02:21 Speaker 4 Can you check for that?

02:23 Speaker 2 Check whether he added something?

02:25 Speaker 4 No, whether there’s a smoke problem or not. The additive hides the problem.

02:30 Speaker 2 Yes, the person drives the car and doesn’t see any smoke coming out. So you’ve effectively hidden the problem. Now, that also sounds like something problematic to do, but there’s another possibility here that we need to examine. What if he says, “I’m an honest person. I tell the buyer about every problem with the car. I’ll tell him, ‘You should know, there was smoke, and I put in an additive.’” But what’s my aim? My aim is that he won’t see it with his own eyes. When you just hear about it, it sounds less serious. There was a problem, there was smoke, I put in an additive. That sounds less serious than seeing the smoke coming out with your own eyes.

03:13 Speaker 4 He also doesn’t understand. He doesn’t understand.

03:16 Speaker 2 He doesn’t understand these things. Right, exactly.

03:20 Speaker 4 And even though...

03:22 Speaker 2 Right. A similar example: say there’s a leak, and for now you put in thicker oil so it won’t leak. Or in the transmission. There are various examples I’ve collected, yes, examples I’ve collected. The next stage is someone who paints the car. Now, he paints the car. Sometimes he paints it because it was in an accident, so he straightens the bodywork and paints it. On the one hand, that conceals the accident. On the other hand, painting the car is a good thing to do for it. Now, here too, there’s a case where you paint—right, right.

04:05 Speaker 4 Because he doesn’t want people to ask him.

04:08 Speaker 2 Right.

04:09 Speaker 4 Simple.

04:10 Speaker 2 Right. Now, even with the painting itself, you might paint it so that it looks brand-new, or you might paint it and its condition is still visible. It doesn’t look new because of the paint. Today that’s not so much of a problem, because there’s a registration and you know exactly when the car was made. But in theory, it could be a problem if the buyer thinks it’s new. A step down from that is someone who washes the car, cleans it, tidies it up, or puts in a pleasant scent—does various things. Maybe some people even open the hood and wash the engine compartment. Then someone opens it and sees what looks like a well-maintained car. But that isn’t really the case; he hasn’t actually maintained the car all along. All these are questions. I’ll show examples in the sources. Obviously, they won’t be about cars; they’ll be other examples. What we’re really looking for here is an action that misleads. And you say, “I’m misleading him, but I tell him about it. I do the thing and I tell him.” Is that a problem? We’ll try to understand. And we’ll also try to understand the question of painting: if I paint the car, on the one hand I improve its appearance, but on the other I conceal the accident. Is there a problem with that?

05:27 Speaker 4 If there’s a problem, then who was there? Ah, [unclear]. What? Everything’s fine. No, that’s certainly [unclear] the car.

05:40 Speaker 2 Right.

05:41 Speaker 4 And then it’s approved.

05:43 Speaker 2 Yes. Essentially, it’s been restored to its original condition. Nothing bad happened.

05:46 Speaker 4 He has no proof from an inspection or [unclear].

05:53 Speaker 2 Yes.

05:53 Speaker 4 He can’t provide an inspection report.

05:55 Speaker 2 Right. Now, that also brings us to the point about inspections. If you say, “I’m not telling him anything,” the person will have an inspection done and find out. Whatever they find, they find. That’s one possibility. The second possibility is that you say to him, “Listen, do you want to take it for an inspection?” You don’t tell him anything, and he chooses not to have it inspected. Do I then say that’s his problem? He could have had it inspected and found out what was going on, but he didn’t. The whole subject of inspections is another matter. I think it comes up in this class. If there’s time, perhaps we’ll get to it. Inspections are a very broad subject. Are you required to have one done? You aren’t required to. Is someone who doesn’t have it inspected considered to have waived his claim? First, as a general principle, in source number one, section 11, the second passage says that it’s forbidden to mislead even a non-Jew. It says here, in the second line: “Likewise, any kind of deception in buying and selling is forbidden, even toward a non-Jew.” In the second passage, second line: “Likewise, any kind of deception in buying and selling is forbidden, even toward a non-Jew. For example, if an item he is selling has a defect, he must inform the buyer, even if the buyer is a non-Jew. For if he does not inform him, he is misleading him and deceiving him, and it is as though he were stealing money from him. It is forbidden by Torah law, as explained in the laws of theft.” First of all, what happens if a person doesn’t disclose the flaws, the defects?

07:26 Speaker 4 That’s theft.

07:27 Speaker 2 It’s like theft. Why? Because right now I’m talking about a car without a defect—without a history of an accident. It’s worth a certain amount. Let’s say it’s worth twenty—thirty. With an accident, it’s worth less. If you don’t tell him about the accident, you’re stealing the difference. That’s why it’s forbidden by Torah law even when the buyer is a non-Jew. Now, that’s when I’m actually causing him a loss. But what happens if I sell it to him cheaply? I say, “Listen, it’s a bargain: twenty instead of thirty,” without saying why. The reason, in fact, is that it was in an accident. Now, if he goes to an appraiser, who examines the accident damage and tells him it’s worth twenty, not thirty, even though the price guide says thirty, then I haven’t misled him. I sold it to him for twenty. The Alter Rebbe continues. Section 12: “Even deceiving him in a matter that will not cause him a loss is forbidden toward a non-Jew by rabbinic law—for example, selling him meat from an animal that died without ritual slaughter as though it had been ritually slaughtered.” Right? In principle, a non-Jew eats either kind of meat; that doesn’t matter to him. But there is something about the taste. The price is the same. Meat from an animal that died without ritual slaughter and meat from one that was ritually slaughtered cost the same, so I haven’t caused him a loss. Nevertheless, the very act of deceiving him by not telling him is forbidden by rabbinic law.

08:47 Speaker 5 Arabs sell black.

08:49 Speaker 2 Ah, Arabs only sell black.

08:51 Speaker 5 Of course. What? Arabs sell black. Not that there aren’t [unclear] among them, but they always bring the same...

09:10 Speaker 2 Right, so here’s what comes out. If a person doesn’t disclose a defect and sells the item for more because of it, that’s theft according to Torah law. But if he sells it at a fair price and simply doesn’t disclose the defect, that’s deception, which is prohibited by rabbinic law, whether the buyer is a Jew or a non-Jew. Now what if I paint it, or do other things like that? That’s section 18. The Alter Rebbe says: “It is forbidden to enhance the appearance of a person, an animal, or utensils that are for sale.” Enhancing their appearance means doing things to make them look better. Let’s see an example: “An elderly Canaanite slave whose head and beard are dyed so that he appears young.” You have an elderly slave with white hair. You dye it black and say, “Here you go, a young slave.” That’s forbidden. A second example: “Or giving an animal bran water to drink, which makes it swell up and causes its hair to stand on end, so that it appears fat.” You give an animal bran water. It bloats, its hair stands up, and it looks fatter. “Likewise, it is forbidden to comb and brush it so that its hair stands up.” Now the next case is more like a car. Let’s see: “It is forbidden to paint them so that they appear new, when the improvement the paint makes is not equal to the increase in their price.” Because people think they’re new, the seller is misleading and overcharging them. In other words, you have an old item. As I told you, this isn’t so relevant to cars today, because today I have a car price guide. But with an old item that you paint, you can do one of two things. You can paint it so it looks nicer, but it’s still clearly old. You can see it’s been refurbished. Or you can paint it so well that it looks new. Where does this apply today? More often, you take something and put it in a new box, in packaging—

11:19 Speaker 2 Or, as I told you in earlier classes, I used to do mivtzoim on Bowery Street in Manhattan. There are lots and lots of stores there owned by Israelis, all next to each other. They all sell kitchens—those institutional stainless-steel kitchens. Now what do they do? If you go behind the store, you see rusty, really old kitchen equipment. If someone saw it like that, he wouldn’t even give it a second look. They wash it, scrub it, paint it with special paint and everything, then wrap it in plastic, and it looks new. They sell it in the store. Now, I think everyone there understands it’s secondhand. I don’t know whether that’s obvious or not, but the point is that what they do makes it look new when they sell it. That’s what he’s referring to here. He says the improvement made by the paint isn’t equal to the increase in price. In other words, its nicer appearance does add something. Let’s say an old product costs a hundred shekels. You paint it, and an old, painted product is worth a hundred and fifty. But you’ve painted it so well that people think it’s worth two hundred. “Because they think they are new, the seller is misleading and overcharging them.” There’s both deception and overcharging here, because you’re selling it for more on that basis. “But it is permitted to paint new items to beautify them.” If it’s already new and you’re just painting it to make it look nicer, that’s permitted. He says you may paint them “or beautify them in other ways, even if their price rises by more than the actual improvement, since there is no deception or overcharging here: the person paying extra for their beauty accepts that price.” New items.

13:21 Speaker 6 I want this one more.

13:23 Speaker 2 Exactly.

13:23 Speaker 6 I want this one more.

13:24 Speaker 2 Now he comes along and adds all kinds of things—designs, decorations, different details. The best example today is buying an arranged gift set.

13:34 Speaker 6 What?

13:34 Speaker 2 An arranged mishloach manos gift set, or a gift basket. Now, if you actually add up the products inside and the ribbon—

13:43 Speaker 6 That’s not the price.

13:44 Speaker 2 Right, they don’t add up to that price. So what would I say?

13:47 Speaker 6 Because of the work.

13:49 Speaker 2 Now let’s say even your work, together with everything else, doesn’t add up to the price. But in the end, the buyer knows; he sees what he’s getting. He wants to buy something nicer, and he agrees to pay because it’s nicer. There’s no deception here.

14:01 Speaker 6 They figure he won’t bother; he won’t go and do it himself.

14:03 Speaker 2 Right.

14:04 Speaker 6 Not everyone.

14:06 Speaker 2 Right. This is similar, for example, to section 25. We’ll read it later. All right, I’ll show it to you afterward. So here’s where we stand. We asked about painting a car and concealing an accident. First of all, if it was an accident that didn’t actually damage the car, and you straighten it out and paint it, seemingly you don’t even need to mention it. Nothing happened to the car. Whatever was out of place, I put back. But if something did happen to the car, you certainly have to disclose it. The question is whether the action I’m taking—painting it—is itself a problem. If I paint it in a way that suits its condition and its year, just to make it look nicer, that’s fine. But if I make it look truly new, as though it’s a higher grade than its actual condition or year, I think that’s somewhat problematic. Now I want to ask about that additive we discussed. I put in an additive so the smoke won’t be visible. That’s an act of deception, but I disclose it. I tell the person. Right? What’s the problem? Let’s see. There’s a real boundary here. Look at section 25, at the top right: “In a place where it is customary to mix water into wine while it is still at the winepresses, when the wine is fermenting and the water blends into it well and becomes like wine, one may mix in the customary amount and sell it without saying anything.” In other words, everyone in that place knows that while the wine is still fermenting, water is mixed in, the fermentation continues, and the water really becomes like wine. So it’s permitted. He says to mix it in and sell it without saying anything. You don’t mention that there was water in it. Why? “There is no overcharging here, since everyone knows that this is the custom, and they buy it with that understanding.” Everyone understands that they put water in it, and they buy

16:09 Speaker 2 it knowing that. Everyone knows. So there’s no issue of someone checking it and being misled. Elsewhere we saw that there can be a problem if someone else might taste it or inspect it; that could be an issue. But here everyone knew. And who? How? Yes. Now what happens? What do we have here? There’s a set amount that they specify. Say it’s thirty percent water. What if fifty percent water was added by mistake? That’s the situation now. It’s already happened. What should be done?

16:40 Speaker 7 According to the Talmud, or what?

16:43 Speaker 2 Yes. So he says: “If more than the customary amount of water became mixed into someone’s wine, he may not sell it in a shop unless he informs the buyer, in which case he may sell it in a shop.” Too much water got mixed in; tell the buyer. Then where may you sell it? In a shop. What does “in a shop” mean? In parentheses: to customers who will drink it. Why? It’s liquor. “But he may not sell it to a merchant even if he informs him, lest the merchant deceive others with it.” You can sell it to private individuals. You tell them that you added extra water, and that’s fine. But you can’t sell it to a merchant, who might later sell it to others without telling them. Now let’s go a little further. Section 23: “All this applies where it is not customary for every wine buyer to taste it first. But where it is customary for everyone buying wine to taste it first, one may always mix water into it, provided the taster can detect it. Where not everyone tastes it, it is forbidden to mix it in.” He’s saying that in some places people don’t taste the wine; they just buy it. There you may mix in only the customary amount. If you mixed in more, you have to disclose it, and you may not sell it to a merchant. What about a place where everyone tastes before buying? Mix in as much as you want. Why? Because whoever comes to buy it will taste it.

18:13 Speaker 7 If it suits him.

18:14 Speaker 2 Yes, and he’ll see whether it suits him or not. That’s all fine. He ends with a place where not everyone tastes it. In other words, most people taste it, but some don’t. Not everyone tastes. You may not mix in water, because eventually someone who doesn’t taste it will buy it as is, and you will have misled him. Yes, right. Now here’s my question: What if I say, “I’ll inform everyone. I’ll mix water into the wine, and I’ll tell everyone”?

18:44 Speaker 7 So it’s beforehand; it happens in any case.

18:48 Speaker 2 Seemingly, what’s the problem? Seemingly. But notice that the wording doesn’t say that. It says that if someone had water get mixed into his wine. He writes it this way: “If the custom is to mix water in, you may mix in the customary amount. If more than the customary amount got mixed into someone’s wine…”

19:06 Speaker 7 He has to inform them.

19:06 Speaker 2 You have to tell them. But can I deliberately mix in more than the permitted amount and say, “I’ll tell them”? The Alter Rebbe doesn’t mention that, because in the next paragraph he writes that if everyone tastes it, you may mix it. If not everyone tastes it, you may not mix it. Wait, tell me: why not say, “Anyone who doesn’t taste it, tell him”? Suddenly that solution isn’t there. It appears only if it’s already been mixed in. Why is that, seemingly?

19:40 Speaker 7 Maybe...

19:40 Speaker 2 Good. Guys, think of it this way. First, even when it was mixed in already, what does it say? You may sell it to a person, an individual. You may not sell it to a merchant. Why? Because he might deceive others with it. In other words, this thing itself is problematic. This wine is problematic. I’m now creating something problematic. True, I’ll tell everyone. But first, maybe I’ll forget to tell someone? Maybe there’s one person I’ll forget to tell? Second, maybe the person who bought it will sell it to others? I’ve created something problematic here. Now, if it’s already happened to me... it’s already happened, so they don’t tell me, “There’s nothing to do; pour out the wine.” It’s already happened, so they permitted me to sell it and tell people, taking every precaution so people won’t be misled. So I tell them, and I don’t sell it to a merchant, only to private individuals. But I don’t see permission here in the Alter Rebbe’s words to mix it in deliberately and then tell people.

20:43 Speaker 8 On this point, there’s the issue of, uh... in buying and selling. There, the question is how much you’re allowed to mark up the price.

20:51 Speaker 2 Right.

20:52 Speaker 8 There it’s [unclear], and if you say explicitly—

20:55 Speaker 2 Right.

20:55 Speaker 8 They distinguish between the cases.

20:56 Speaker 2 Right.

20:57 Speaker 8 The question is, why doesn’t that apply here? Here. By the way, if I tell each and every person, everything will be fine.

21:05 Speaker 2 Exactly. What’s the difference? Over there, the person is what’s called “conducting business in good faith.” He sells at a high price, but he says, “I bought it for this much and I’m selling it for that much.” There, he hasn’t done anything to the product that could mislead someone. It’s an ordinary product, sold in the ordinary way. He’s just telling him, “I’m selling it to you at a high price, and you should know what I paid and how much I’m making,” and so on. So at no point along the way was there any problematic action. But here there are two stages. First, I do the mixing. Second, afterward, I tell all the buyers. Somewhere in between, something could go wrong. Now...

21:40 Speaker 8 The deception carries over.

21:42 Speaker 2 What?

21:43 Speaker 8 The deception carries over.

21:44 Speaker 2 Yes, so...

21:45 Speaker 8 Unless he does what they do when they print the alcohol percentage on every bottle. The percentage of dryness on every bottle.

21:50 Speaker 2 Oh, exactly. Now, if we understand why the Alter Rebbe didn’t mention this permission, we can apply that to our day. For example, suppose I sell a bottle of wine, and it’s printed at the bottom that it contains such-and-such a percentage of water. Hypothetically. Now, what could go wrong here? It’s not that I might forget to tell someone. It’s not that someone might deceive others with it. It’s printed on the product itself. Seemingly, there’d be no problem with that. Seemingly. Now my question is about—

22:28 Speaker 8 They’ll put in more and write something else.

22:31 Speaker 2 What do you mean? I didn’t understand.

22:33 Speaker 8 They’ll put in fifteen percent water and write ten percent water.

22:37 Speaker 2 No, I’m talking as the manufacturer now. I’m the manufacturer. I... I put it in deliberately; it didn’t spill in. I put in a higher percentage of water, but I write that on the product. Is there a problem with that? No problem at all. Seemingly, no problem at all. Now let’s turn to our case. This person has a problem with the engine: smoke is coming out, and he puts in an additive. I saw something called “honey,” I don’t know—it’s some additive you put in, and for the time being it stops the smoke. Is that action deceptive or not? It’s deceptive. That’s it. Now the question is: he says, “I’ll put it in and tell the buyer.” Would that be permitted or forbidden?

23:27 Speaker 8 It doesn’t matter, a person wants—a person wants—

23:30 Speaker 2 He’s selling it cheaply. He’s selling it cheaply. Let’s put it this way: in the car market, a car in good working order sells for its listed price. A car that’s no longer fully functional immediately drops to scrap value—a few hundred shekels for the car, and that’s it. Now, a car that still runs, where a person says, “I can get another year or two out of it,” can fetch more. So he says, “Listen, it has certain problems,” and the buyer will still buy it. He needs a car urgently right now, and he’s willing to pay around five thousand shekels for it. But the seller thinks to himself, “If the person sees the car smoking, it’ll put him off. If he doesn’t see it with his own eyes and only hears about it, it’ll put him off less.” You see, what he’s doing is deceptive, but he tells him.

24:22 Speaker 8 Even if he tells him, the buyer won’t know how much smoke there is, what kind of car it is.

24:27 Speaker 2 He won’t know exactly how much—

24:29 Speaker 8 Not exactly how much—

24:29 Speaker 2 How much smoke, what condition it’s in, what it’s like.

24:34 Speaker 8 The main point is that a person can sell something defective. In any case, there are risks.

24:40 Speaker 2 No, I think that also depends on the wine. What’s the concern there? Is it that a person might forget to tell one of the buyers—he’s selling to many people, and he’ll forget to tell some of them—or that the buyer might take it and sell it to someone else, or things like that? Or is it that, as a general rule, you don’t do something deceptive, even if you intend to tell people? Don’t do it. Right? So here, as for forgetting, I won’t forget. I’ve just done it, and I have one buyer in mind right now. I’m telling him; it’s not likely that I’ll forget. This isn’t a store with lots of buyers where I might forget. So I think it depends on that. There’s room to discuss whether it’s permitted or forbidden. Now, regarding painting the car, we said that if you’re not concealing anything here, and if you... What happens if you conceal an accident with the paint job but tell the buyer? You paint it and tell him. Here it’s different. Why? Because over there, the action served only to deceive. So they told you: don’t deceive and then tell people. Don’t mix in water and then tell people. But here, I want the car to look nice. The buyer also wants the car to look nice. So yes, once I’ve painted it, that conceals the accident, but I’ll tell him about the accident. I’ll tell him to go have it checked. In that situation, it would clearly be permitted.

26:03 Speaker 8 It’s like tasting it.

26:05 Speaker 2 What?

26:05 Speaker 8 It’s like tasting it.

26:07 Speaker 2 Right, right. Checking it—if everyone... Let’s put it this way: that’s a good example. If everyone who buys a car has it checked, it would be exactly like tasting it. In that case, perhaps you could even put in the additive without telling the buyer, in principle.

26:26 Speaker 8 Yes. He—

26:28 Speaker 2 Everyone checks, everyone checks. But what’s the problem? It says there that if not everyone checks, it’s forbidden. So if someone now comes and buys from you, and he himself doesn’t have it checked, perhaps it would be forbidden. If he takes it to an inspection center, they’ll presumably pick up on it, and that’s fine.

26:43 Speaker 8 The buyer is taking a risk.

26:46 Speaker 2 If he doesn’t have it checked.

26:47 Speaker 8 If he doesn’t have it checked.

26:48 Speaker 2 Yes. But what happens if he didn’t have it checked, and later he suddenly finds that his engine has failed? Then he says, “This was already there when you sold it to me. I had it chec—” Now he goes to a mechanic, who tells him, “This was a preexisting problem. The seller didn’t tell you.” You say, “I didn’t tell you. That’s your problem; you didn’t have it checked.” So what do we see from this example? Right. You can’t say to someone, “You didn’t have it checked, so that’s your problem.” If everyone has it checked, then fine—you don’t tell him, of course. They’ll catch it during the inspection. But if not everyone has it checked, that’s a problem.

27:18 Speaker 8 What’s the norm today? Does everyone have cars checked?

27:20 Speaker 2 I don’t think everyone does.

27:21 Speaker 8 Huh?

27:22 Speaker 2 Some people do, but not everyone.

27:25 Speaker 8 Huh? Not even fifty percent. It depends on the cars—the very expensive ones. The midrange cars, not really, right?

27:33 Speaker 9 If he only wants to have his car checked, he wants to—he says he doesn’t have the money to find what’s causing it.

27:42 Speaker 2 The buyer? Are you talking about the buyer? A buyer who wants to inspect a car but doesn’t want to buy it?

27:49 Speaker 9 He didn’t say he wants to buy it. He’s someone who wants to taste it. He’s not—he just wants to taste it to see.

27:54 Speaker 2 Oh, you’re really asking about tasting the wine or inspecting the car? That’s a separate issue—

27:58 Speaker 9 Tasting it for other reasons.

27:59 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, that’s a topic, a topic. We spoke about it recently in one of the classes, regarding all kinds of samples and tastings that people offer, and so on. So yes, that’s a different issue. You have to look at the seller’s willingness in general. If someone is standing outside a shul, offering, “Come, come, anyone who wants a taste, anyone at all,” and you see that he’s going after people to get them to taste it and doesn’t care at all whether they buy anything, then it’s permitted. But if he’s standing there and offering people the chance to taste, and it’s meant for people considering a purchase, then you can’t just taste it for no reason. They’re not offering it to just anyone. Now we’ll read only section 25. It’s something similar to what we were just discussing. Yes. “It is permitted to pick the waste out of groats or legumes so that they look attractive to the buyer, and this is not considered deceiving him, because this is something visible to the eye. The buyer can see and understand how much more they are worth once the waste has been removed, and he is happy to pay more for them so that he won’t have to trouble himself to sort them.” That’s what I mentioned earlier too. What?

29:06 Speaker 10 Better quality at the market.

29:07 Speaker 2 Yes. Now, in principle, someone buying groats at the market pays a certain amount per kilo. Then someone comes along, cleans them up, makes them look nice, and sells them for more money. Now, it could be—and the Alter Rebbe doesn’t mention this, but seemingly it could be—that if you take the groats as they are, they cost ten shekels a kilo at the market. Sort them at home, and in the end they’re worth fifteen shekels. But he sorted the groats and is selling them to you for twenty.

29:45 Speaker 10 Because of the work he did to improve them.

29:48 Speaker 2 Right, but the improvement he made isn’t actually worth that much. He sorted them and, in effect, raised the price sharply. But the Alter Rebbe says, “Yes, that’s fine.” Why? Because you can see exactly what was done. A person knows how much ordinary merchandise costs, and here he sees it. As he says, “It is something visible to the eye, and the buyer can see and understand how much more they are worth, and he is happy to pay more for them so that he won’t have to trouble himself.” True, you raised the price, but it’s worth it to him not to have to bother. So that’s what he said about mishloach manos packages and all that. He sees how much you’ve actually raised the price for him, and even though you’ve raised it, it’s worth it to him because he won’t have to bother arranging it, or he doesn’t know how to arrange it, and so on. The same applies to a car. You add various special upgrades. You add, uh, a camera and this and that, and because of all those upgrades it sells for much more. Now you say, “Wait, what? I only added a little.” For example, I once wanted to sell my home, and a real estate agent came over and told me, “Listen, just replace the doors. It’ll cost you such-and-such, and it’ll raise the price by much more, because people will want to buy it.” So I replace the doors, pay a little, and then get a lot more. It isn’t a question of how much I invested and how much I get. In the end, it’s about what the person sees in front of him. There’s no deception here. Now, what happens if someone—we mentioned this at the beginning, but didn’t state the exact ruling—there’s a problem with his car and he sells it cheaply, but doesn’t tell the buyer about the problem? He sells it cheaply. One possibility is that he says, “Listen, the car has various problems. I’m not going to list them all for you now—various small problems, for example—and altogether I’ve taken five thousand shekels off the price because of them.” In principle, that is permitted according to halacha. It’s permitted. If you genuinely estimate that that’s what those problems are worth and have reduced the price accordingly, that’s fine. But what happens if you don’t tell him there are problems? You just say it’s a bargain price. What? Sometimes a person is stuck and wants to sell quickly. Not always. The price sometimes—you’re right—sometimes the price is a warning sign. You’re right, but not always.

31:37 Speaker 2 “I’m not going to list them all for you now—various small problems, for example. Altogether, I’ve knocked about five thousand shekels off the price because of them.” In principle, that’s permitted according to halachah. It’s allowed. If you genuinely estimate that those problems are worth that amount and you’ve reduced the price accordingly, that’s fine. But what happens if you don’t tell him there are problems? You just say it’s a bargain price. How so? Sometimes a person is in a bind and wants to sell quickly. Not always. The price can sometimes—yes, you’re right—sometimes the price can be misleading. You’re right, but not always.

32:10 Speaker 10 Not always. Sometimes the market is... down.

32:20 Speaker 2 If the market is down, then its price is down. In other words, that’s a sign that the price guide isn’t accurate if the market really is down. But what sometimes happens? A person wants to get rid of something, wants to sell quickly, so he lowers the price. It happens sometimes, not always. Sometimes a low price means there are problems, but in this case there are problems and he lowered the price because of them. Or, for example, he painted an item to make it look new but sells it at the price of an old one. He hasn’t made any claims about it. He’s selling it as an old item. We have a quotation here from Rabbeinu Yonasan of Lunel, one of the Rishonim. He says the following: “Even if he makes them cheap”—yes, he takes elderly servants and dyes their beards so they look young, but sells them cheaply, at the price of elderly servants. “Even if he makes them cheap, so that even if the buyer knew they were old he would still buy them”—he would buy them at a price appropriate for elderly servants—“even so, this constitutes deception, because they buy from him on account of the low price he offers them. Had they known these were old utensils or elderly servants, they would not have bought them merely because of the low price, spending their money on something old.” They wouldn’t... the price, the discount, wouldn’t have persuaded them to buy something old, but they think it’s new. They say, “Oh, something new at that price”—so it’s worth it to them. In practice, you haven’t caused them a financial loss, but it’s deception. That’s what it does. Now let’s continue with the last things we mentioned, and with that we’ll finish. Someone does various things to make a car look attractive that don’t hide anything. He washes the car before selling it. Every time a buyer comes, he washes the car for him. He puts on good music, adds

34:11 Speaker 2 a pleasant scent, does all kinds of things. In the end, he influences the buyer’s decision. That same buyer might not have bought it if he’d arrived and the car hadn’t been washed and there’d been no music or pleasant scent. Now, because of what you did, you got him to buy it. Is there a problem with that? Or, for example, when you come and tell him, “Listen, this car...” and emphasize the car’s advantages. You’re not concealing any problems from him, but you’re emphasizing its advantages. Is there any problem? So let’s look at Mesillas Yesharim. We mentioned this at the time too. Number three, Mesillas Yesharim, chapter 11. “And if you say in your heart: How can we possibly avoid making an effort in our business dealings to persuade others regarding the merchandise and its value? There is a great distinction here: Any effort to show buyers the true quality and beauty of an item is good and proper.” If I come and emphasize an item’s advantages, I’m telling them about it. Seemingly, washing it and playing music are included in this too. Things like that, which persuade him that the item is good, are good and proper. “But anything done to conceal the defects of his item is nothing but fraud and is forbidden. This is a fundamental rule of honest business dealings.” In short, this isn’t stopping us from marketing and doing things like that. Anything that emphasizes the good is no problem. If it’s done to conceal the bad, that is certainly forbidden. Concealing the bad. Tidying up the house, washing it, making it smell nice. Yes. It’s interesting: I remember that when I was looking into selling, someone suggested putting vanilla extract in the oven and turning it on, so the house would smell like baking. That’s interesting. Say I made sure to bake cookies whenever a buyer came. Now when a buyer walks in, what sort of feeling does he get?

36:21 Speaker 2 A homey feeling, with a pleasant smell. It gives him a feeling that persuades him to buy. It has an effect; these things have a big effect. But what about this case? I put vanilla extract in the oven. I think there may be a problem here, because in the end it gives the impression that something is baking. I mean, I don’t know, maybe. I don’t know. It’s worth discussing. You’re not deceiving him about something specific, you’re not hiding a defect, but you’re giving him—

36:46 Speaker 11 It looks good, doesn’t it?

36:47 Speaker 2 Huh?

36:47 Speaker 11 No, it looks, it looks good.

36:49 Speaker 2 Yes, it could be that there’s—

36:50 Speaker 11 You want to sell the clinic, which is—

36:52 Speaker 2 Yes.

36:53 Speaker 11 A residential apartment. You sell it to him at the same price, the price you want. If he wants to buy it, he buys it; if not, he doesn’t. What’s the problem?

37:00 Speaker 3 That’s what he says, right?

37:02 Speaker 2 What?

37:02 Speaker 3 Isn’t that what the rabbi—

37:04 Speaker 2 Something, something about showing the true quality and beauty of the item.

37:08 Speaker 3 I don’t know what, what—

37:11 Speaker 2 No, that’s clear. No. Things that are, uh, normal are certainly fine. What I meant was that you’re giving him the impression that something is baking there, when all you put in the oven was extract. He walks in—

37:24 Speaker 3 If you were actually baking, then—

37:26 Speaker 2 No, actually baking. I’m not saying it’s outright deception, but maybe there’s something about doing that which isn’t appropriate. In other words, you’re doing something as if—I don’t know.

37:38 Speaker 3 Nice pictures in the house, that’s—

37:40 Speaker 2 No, not everything. Beautiful pictures really are beautiful pictures. Music is music. The question is, I mean, are you dealing here with something that doesn’t suit your nature? To come and put—

37:51 Speaker 3 The problem is to put it in the back and not—

37:52 Speaker 2 Just in the back like that. Maybe, I don’t know. Certainly not; that’s not—certainly that isn’t included in [unclear]. This is showing the good, the goodness and beauty of it. That’s part one. In the next class, if there is one, we’ll talk about advertising—

38:05 Speaker 3 About water.

38:06 Speaker 2 What? Rabbeinu Yonah—I mentioned this earlier. Come, let’s read it. “Know that one who mixes one thing with another, whatever mixture he wishes, and informs the buyer, bears no responsibility at all for that mixture.” That’s the wording. Someone started to say that perhaps the Alter Rebbe mentioned mixing water into wine: if it got mixed in, you can inform the buyer afterward. Now here—what? At first it doesn’t seem so. He writes it in an interesting way. He says: “One who mixes and informs the buyer bears no responsibility at all for that mixture.” Maybe that’s the difference between what we discussed earlier and what we’re discussing now. There, there are many buyers, so when you mix it, you might only inform the buyer afterward. Here he says “the buyer,” in the singular. There’s one particular buyer; you mix it and immediately tell him. So you bear no responsibility at all for that mixture. Perhaps that’s how we can reconcile Rabbeinu Yonah with the Alter Rebbe. In any case, the Alter Rebbe didn’t mention this. It’s only Rabbeinu Yonah, one of the Rishonim. The Alter Rebbe didn’t mention it. In short, that’s the first stage. The next classes will be about advertising. How do I advertise the car? And when someone actually comes to buy, how do I speak with him? There’s a buyer; a buyer has arrived, a friend wants to buy. What is the buyer allowed to do? But we’ll cover it briefly, because, as I mentioned, these are long classes with all these details. We’ll go through it all briefly until we finally get to the purchase itself.