Conduct During the Torah Reading - Rabbi Eyal Peled shlita

00:02 Speaker 1 You’re listening to “Lemaan Yishme’u,” a podcast from Machon Halacha Chabad.

00:09 Speaker 2 Hello and blessings to all our dear viewers. We’re discussing Torah reading and the different situations that can arise. Sometimes there aren’t ten people for a Torah reading. This can happen to shluchim in various places: there’s a group of people, but not ten for the reading. What do you do? The book Nesivim Bisdei Hashlichus addresses this and argues that you can—sorry—that you can take out a Sefer Torah and read without a blessing. Simply read the whole parsha straight through, without a blessing. Some disagree. They say you shouldn’t take out a Sefer Torah just to read from it like that; in their view, we should read the parsha from a Chumash, not a Sefer Torah. There are sources that discuss this—the Shelah, the Pri Megadim, and other halachic authorities—but it isn’t entirely clear whether, when they say to read the parsha from a book, they mean a Sefer Torah. At any rate, it seems you can take out the Sefer Torah and read the parsha straight through. But, as we said, some are concerned about taking out a Sefer Torah for this and say to read from a Chumash instead. If there are ten people but no kosher Sefer Torah, we simply read the parsha from a Chumash, call up those receiving aliyos, and read from the Chumash without blessings or anything else. There are also situations where we want to take out a Sefer Torah to read something specific—not the weekly parsha, but a particular passage, such as the offerings of the Nesi’im, the Ten Commandments, and the like. Regarding the reading of the Nesi’im, there is a dispute among the halachic authorities about whether you may take out a Sefer Torah and read from it publicly without a blessing. And that is

02:28 Speaker 2 the main problem: when you take out a Sefer Torah and read from it publicly, you can’t read without a blessing. Since we don’t say a blessing over the reading of the Nesi’im or the Ten Commandments, that creates a problem. I can’t just take out a Sefer Torah and read the Ten Commandments from it without a blessing. That really is problematic. On the other hand, the apparent solution follows from what we said earlier: if there aren’t ten people, we can take out a Sefer Torah and read the Ten Commandments and the like, because this isn’t a congregation and therefore doesn’t require me to say a blessing. I can take out the Sefer Torah and read the Ten Commandments from it, just as I can read the passage of the Nesi’im from it, if there isn’t a group of ten. That is indeed the ruling in Nesivim Bisdei Hashlichus: you can take out the Sefer Torah and read the Ten Commandments aloud to children and so on—in the shul, of course—without a blessing, reading only that passage. Apparently, that should work as well. As for a minyan for Torah reading, as is well known, the Mishnah in tractate Megillah says that the Torah is not read with fewer than ten people. We need ten for a Torah reading. Sometimes we don’t have ten people who haven’t heard the reading; we have only six. That’s also all right. We can take out a Sefer Torah and read the parsha, but we need another four to complete the ten. Even if those four have already heard the Torah reading, we can still take out a Sefer Torah and hold the reading of the parsha. But again, that’s only if there are at least six people who haven’t heard the reading. With fewer than that—although some opinions hold that even with three you can

04:34 Speaker 2 take out a Sefer Torah and read the parsha for three people who haven’t heard the Torah reading—in practice, we don’t do that. Some say that’s only for people of a certain spiritual stature who are, well, I don’t know. In practice, we don’t do it. Only when there are six who haven’t heard the reading can they be joined by another four who have heard it, take out a Sefer Torah, and hold the reading, whether it’s the weekly parsha, the Monday or Thursday reading, the Shabbos reading, and so on. There’s one important thing to know. The Biur Halacha writes—and his reasoning makes sense—that even when only six haven’t heard the Torah reading and I add another four, there still have to be “ten who listen.” Torah reading was instituted for a congregation, not as an individual obligation. It’s a communal obligation, so there is no Torah reading without a congregation. Now, for those ten to count as a congregation, all of them must listen to the reading—ten who listen. Otherwise, they aren’t considered a congregation. So yes, I have six who haven’t heard the Torah reading and I bring another four. But if each of those four is staring at the wall or reading stories of tzaddikim, it doesn’t count. You need ten who listen. You need ten who listen. This is a very important halacha that people don’t know or pay attention to. Often we arrange readings before Yud Shvat and the like, dividing up the readings in various circumstances and places. We need to pay attention to this. It isn’t enough to have six who haven’t heard the reading. The other four must sit with an open Chumash and listen, so there are ten who listen. The only possible justification

06:41 Speaker 2 for those who aren’t careful about this is connected to the next halacha we’ll discuss. It’s true that a Torah reading can’t begin with fewer than ten people. But there’s a halacha that also applies to davening—and, in fact, to almost anything that requires ten—that if we began with ten, we can continue. The same is true of Torah reading. If we began the reading with ten, then even if one, two, three, or four people leave in the middle, we can continue as long as the majority of the minyan remains—that is, six people. What counts as beginning? Even starting the blessing counts. If the person called up for the first aliyah has already begun the Torah blessing, that counts as beginning. Saying “Borchu” doesn’t count. If he has only said “Borchu” and people leave, that’s it; we can’t continue. But if he has already begun the first blessing over the Torah reading, even though the reading itself hasn’t yet begun, that counts as beginning. From then on, if people leave—even four people—we continue the reading to the end and also say the half Kaddish afterward, because it is connected to the reading. That’s when people leave in the middle. We can apply this to what we were just discussing about ten who listen, at least after the fact. In other words, if even when four people leave in the middle we still fulfill the obligation of Torah reading, despite no longer having ten people there, then seemingly the same applies to ten who listen. That is, even if those four who complete the ten

08:53 Speaker 2 They aren’t listening to the reading, but if they heard at least the first blessing of the first person called up to the Torah and answered amen, then when he recited that blessing, there were ten people listening. So if afterward they become distracted and so on, it doesn’t invalidate the reading after the fact. That’s one way to judge the situation favorably. But of course, we don’t do that, just as we don’t leave in the middle of the Torah reading. Nobody would dream of going outside and saying, “Well, we started with ten, so I’m going for a walk.” Of course he wouldn’t do that. The same applies here. Ideally, we should make sure that the four who complete the minyan also listen to the Torah reading. That’s the halacha. That’s how it should be, for the sake of proper order. Now, if we started with ten, as we said, and are continuing, we complete the entire reading, including the half-Kaddish afterward. But the haftarah is a separate matter. So if I no longer have ten, we say the haftarah without the blessings. Although I began the Torah reading with ten and can finish it, I can finish only the Torah reading. The haftarah is considered something new, so if I don’t have ten, I say it without the blessings. Now, when we said that we need four people to complete the minyan, there’s something to bear in mind: those people must have some obligation to hear the Torah reading. Even if they’ve already fulfilled that obligation, they’re still people to whom the obligation applies, and I can count them toward the ten needed to take out a Torah scroll and read. But if we’re talking about someone

10:44 Speaker 2 who has no obligation to hear the reading at all—for example, someone from Eretz Yisroel who is abroad on the second day of Yom Tov—he has no obligation to hear it. I’m not getting into the halacha now of whether he has to observe the second day of Yom Tov. But in a situation where he doesn’t have to observe it, he has no obligation to hear the reading at all. I can’t count him toward the ten, because this doesn’t apply to him; he isn’t obligated in it whatsoever. He has no obligation at all to hear the Torah reading, so I can’t count him to complete the minyan. But if it’s the other way around—someone from abroad who has come to Eretz Yisroel—then even though they’re reading a different parsha abroad, ultimately he does have an obligation to hear a Torah reading. He may not be supposed to hear this particular parsha now; abroad, where he’s from, they’re reading another parsha. But he does still have an obligation to hear a reading, just of a different parsha. So that’s fine. I can count him toward the ten for people who haven’t heard the reading and want to take out a Torah scroll. The question arises whether there are situations in which a person... We said that there need to be ten for the Torah reading and that one must not leave in the middle. We said that after the fact, if some of the people praying leave, we continue. As long as a majority of the minyan remains, we continue the reading to the end. But the question is: Is it ever possible to leave in the middle of the Torah reading? If so, when? First, we need to know that it is forbidden to leave in the middle of the Torah reading. And as we said, when I say “in the middle”

12:47 Speaker 2 of the Torah reading, I mean that even if the person called up has only begun the blessing, I can no longer leave the shul. I have to stay until he finishes his reading. Now, if he has finished and we’re between one aliyah and the next, it is permissible to leave. Some want to say that one shouldn’t leave even then, but in practice we are lenient: if there is a need—a valid reason, of course; one doesn’t just leave for no reason—one may leave between aliyos. But during an aliyah itself, one may not leave the shul. It’s forbidden. Even if the reading hasn’t begun yet, once the person called up has begun the blessing over the Torah, we can no longer leave. We have to wait until he finishes his reading, and then we can leave between aliyos. This halacha applies even to someone who happened to walk into the shul just to get a book and suddenly finds that the Torah reading is starting. He, too, cannot leave. Even if he came in only to call someone or the like, he still must not leave. And the Aruch Hashulchan writes that even someone who needs to use the bathroom so urgently that he has reached the point of bal teshaktzu may not leave in the middle of the reading. He says it’s like Shemoneh Esrei: one doesn’t leave in the middle of Shemoneh Esrei even if that means violating bal teshaktzu. So here, too, the honor due to the Torah is so great that it overrides the concern of bal teshaktzu. On the other hand, the Kaf Hachayim says that a woman, since she is not obligated in the Torah reading—for, as we’ve already explained,

14:49 Speaker 2 the Torah reading is an obligation of the congregation, and women do not have the status of a congregation—is, strictly speaking, exempt from this entire obligation. The Kaf Hachayim therefore says that a woman may leave even in the middle of the Torah reading if she needs to. Of course, she shouldn’t leave for no reason. If she has come to shul to hear the Torah reading, she should show respect for the Torah scroll. But if a need arises—her baby or child needs her, and so on—she may leave even in the middle of the reading. That is the ruling of the Kaf Hachayim. There’s another question about talking during the Torah reading. This is actually a very important subject, one that all the halachic authorities address. First of all, it’s an explicit ruling in the Shulchan Aruch, based on the Gemara, which says that from the moment the Torah scroll is opened, it is forbidden to speak even about a matter of halacha. That’s what the Gemara says: “Once the Torah scroll has been opened.” Even if they haven’t begun reading yet—if they’ve only placed the Torah scroll on the bimah and removed its cover—the Gemara says that once it is opened, it is forbidden to speak even about a matter of halacha. In other words, one may not even discuss Torah. The Zohar says very powerful things about the Torah reading: a person should “sit in awe.” He should feel as though he is now at Mount Sinai, hearing the Ten Commandments. Imagine starting to talk in the middle of that. One should sit with awe and reverence and act as though one has no mouth. As the Zohar puts it, “as one who has no mouth,” as though one has no mouth, as though

17:02 Speaker 2 He has no mouth at all, so he says nothing—complete silence. There’s also a statement by the Rebbe Rashab in a letter I wanted to bring. I didn’t manage to get to it and pull it out, but it’s very worthwhile to read. I couldn’t even find the source, but there’s a long letter from the Rebbe Rashab in which he goes into the matter in depth. It’s a real halachic analysis of the Shulchan Aruch, and he proves that according to every opinion, and everything we’ve been discussing, you cannot talk during the Torah reading. He speaks in words full of feeling and force about how utterly out of the question it is. There’s no basis for thinking it might be permissible in the first place. Now, we’re talking even about the time between one aliyah and the next; all the more so during the Torah reading itself. That is completely out of the question. On a lighter note, I saw someone say that Hakadosh Boruch Hu says, “Why did I come, and there was no man?” He’s expressing a complaint, as it were, about coming to shul: “Why did I come, and there was no man?” So this person says the point isn’t necessarily that no one was there. The emphasis is on “no man.” We know that ten measures of speech descended into the world, and women took nine. So when Hakadosh Boruch Hu comes to shul and hears everyone talking and talking, He says, “I came here, and there’s no man here.” They’ve all become women, all become girls—they just keep talking. So first of all, this is halachah even without considering any matter of extra piety, or Chassidus, or what the Rebbe Rashab and the Zohar say, and so on. It’s simply

19:04 Speaker 2 established halachah. Once the Torah scroll is opened, you may not talk, even about a matter of halachah. So it’s obvious that you don’t talk during the Torah reading. That’s basic. The question is whether you may talk between one aliyah and the next. The Bach says that you may discuss Torah between aliyos. The halachic authorities took it a little further and wrote that it need not specifically be Torah discussion: you may also speak about necessary matters. Again, not just idle talk—“How was it? What did you do? Where did you go?”—but brief, necessary matters. Since they also spend time reciting Mi Shebeirach blessings and so on, that does allow for some speech. But again, only between aliyos, and only about necessary matters. The Pri Chadash writes this too: only necessary matters. But you have to know that since you may not talk during the reading even about halachah, studying during the reading is also a problem. It isn’t so simple. The Aruch HaShulchan says it can be permitted only if the person is sitting off to the side and it’s evident that he has already heard the Torah reading. People can see that he’s already heard it, and he’s sitting off to the side and studying quietly, without being heard. Only something like that can be permitted. By the way, that person who is studying must respond to Barchu, though he is not required to respond to the blessings over the Torah reading. But in general, even someone who is studying or occupied in prayer must stop and respond to Barchu, Kaddish, and Kedushah. So that’s how we need to conduct ourselves during the Torah reading. As we said, we need

21:19 Speaker 2 to listen in complete silence, certainly while the Torah is being read. The only time speaking is permitted is between aliyos, and only briefly about necessary matters. Only then may one speak.