Waiting Between Meat and Milk - Rabbi Moshe Kornowicz shlita

00:02 Speaker 1 You’re listening to “Lema’an Yishme’u,” a podcast of Machon Halacha Chabad.

00:09 Speaker 2 Hello, everyone. We’re continuing our discussion of kashrus, focusing mainly on the laws of meat and milk—matters that come up in every home, for every person. They come up all the time for women and for children, even young children. We’ll discuss various details and questions in these laws, beginning with the waiting period between meat and dairy. As everyone knows, after eating meat we wait six hours before eating dairy. There isn’t much to add to that, but there are some interesting halachic principles worth examining carefully. First, what is the reason for this law? Why must we wait six hours? The early authorities differ, and give two reasons. The first is meat between the teeth. There is a concern that even after a long time, meat may remain between the teeth, and when we eat dairy, we would, G-d forbid, be eating meat and dairy together. The second reason concerns how long meat takes to digest in the stomach: some time may pass while the meat is still there, leaving us with the taste of meat and dairy together. The halachic authorities discuss many interesting practical differences between these two reasons. We’ll mention just a few points. First, in practice, if someone finds meat between his teeth after six hours, he must, of course, be careful not to eat dairy until he removes it. He cannot rely on the fact that after six hours it is no longer considered meat. Similarly, suppose that after four hours someone finds meat between his teeth, dislodges it with his tongue and—oops—swallows it. This brings us into a dispute among the halachic authorities: must he now wait six hours from the time he swallowed the meat from between his teeth, or six hours from the original meal? So he should be careful not to do that, but spit out the

02:21 Speaker 2 meat rather than swallow it. If he swallows it, there is strong reason to be concerned that he must start counting six hours again, from the time he swallowed it. These are examples of the details that arise from this dispute. There is a well-known question about someone who chews meat for a baby without intending to eat it at all. He takes some meat from the soup and chews it to soften it, so the baby will have an easier time eating it. Must he wait six hours? The Pri Megadim, cited by the Pischei Teshuvah in Yoreh De’ah, section 89, says that although, according to either explanation, there would seemingly be no concern—it did not enter his stomach, so there is no lingering taste from digestion, and it did not get stuck between his teeth, since he did not eat it but only softened it—nevertheless, “the Sages made no distinction.” The very act of putting meat into his mouth requires him to wait six hours. There is also an interesting discussion about someone who tastes food and spits it out: must he wait six hours? According to most halachic authorities, he does not. The Yad Yehudah raises another interesting question: while someone is still within the waiting period after eating meat, may he prepare dairy foods, or are we concerned that he might swallow some? In practice, we are not concerned, and he may handle dairy foods even while he is still within that waiting period. Although one authority questioned whether we should be concerned that he might eat dairy, these rules are precautions intended to keep meat and dairy apart, and no such further restriction was imposed. There is also an interesting discussion about sharp foods in connection with the six-hour wait. We’ll speak more about this concept later, with Hashem’s help, but

04:19 Speaker 2 our Sages taught that certain foods behave differently when it comes to how flavors age and how utensils absorb and release them. These are sharp foods. Asafoetida and radishes are examples; in practice, onions and olives that have not been pickled are also considered sharp foods. A sharp food has the power to draw out flavors and to preserve and renew them. Therefore, when a sharp food is cut with a meat knife, it becomes meat, because it draws the flavor out of the knife and into itself. The question is: may someone eat an onion cut with a dairy knife within six hours of eating meat? The onion absorbs flavor from the dairy knife. Does he now need to wait six hours, or not? First, another basic principle of the six-hour wait: although we must wait six hours after eating meat, we need not wait six hours after eating food cooked in a meat utensil. If I cooked a potato in a meat utensil that had been used within the past twenty-four hours, I do not have to wait six hours afterward. The potato contains no actual meat; it has absorbed only the flavor of meat. If I baked potatoes in a meat oven, I do not have to wait six hours, because they absorbed only the flavor of meat, not meat itself. There is a major distinction between actual meat or meat fat and flavor released from a utensil. Flavor released from a utensil does not require a six-hour wait. Now let’s return to our onion. After eating actual meat, I cut an onion with a dairy knife. May I eat that onion? Halachically, the onion is considered dairy, because a sharp food can draw flavor out of the knife. The Pri Megadim, one of the great and highly respected halachic authorities, whose words are given very, very serious consideration,

07:05 Speaker 2 [unclear]. He discusses this not in the laws of meat and milk, but in the laws of Shavuos, where many laws relating to meat and milk are brought together. In section 494, in the laws of the Yom Tov of Shavuos, the Pri Megadim writes that eating a radish cut with a dairy knife within six hours of eating meat “should be considered forbidden.” He says that just as one may not eat dairy after meat, one may not eat a sharp food that has absorbed flavor from a dairy utensil. This is a significant stringency introduced by the Pri Megadim. A G-d-fearing Jew may be careful about it, and it can have quite a practical impact: if someone makes a salad and cuts an onion with a dairy knife, according to the Pri Megadim he should not eat that salad within six hours of eating meat. Other halachic authorities cite the responsa Mor VeOhalos, by an authority from a generation or two before us who collected a great many practical rulings on many subjects. He also wrote books on the laws of blessings, kashrus and salting. His work was a practical resource for Rabbi Einhorn[?] around 120 years ago, or a little over a hundred years ago. He writes in Mor VeOhalos that despite the Pri Megadim’s ruling forbidding it, the widespread Jewish custom is not to be stringent about this. People do eat an onion cut with a dairy knife within six hours of eating meat. So, as we’ve said, the Pri Megadim sets out a significant stringency: not to eat an onion cut with a dairy knife within six hours of eating meat. This has a major practical bearing on salad with onions, hot peppers and so on. Nevertheless, Mor VeOhalos records that Jewish custom is otherwise. The widespread Jewish custom—and Jewish custom has the force of Torah—is not to follow the Pri Megadim’s stringency. People eat an onion cut with a dairy knife within six hours of eating meat and are not particular about this. But it is important to mention this ruling for anyone who wishes to be stringent.

09:27 Speaker 2 And to be stringent in accordance with the Pri Megadim, who, as we said, is a major and important halachic authority. So although the responsa Mor VaOhalos testifies that the Jewish custom is to be lenient in this, and therefore the basic ruling is that one may be lenient, since we follow the custom, it is still proper for a person to be particularly careful about it. What happens in the reverse situation? Someone cut an onion with a meat knife. Does he have to wait six hours after eating that onion? According to the stringency of the Pri Megadim, a conscientious, G-d-fearing person who wants to follow his ruling to be stringent about an onion cut with a dairy knife after eating meat—should he go even further and wait six hours after eating an onion cut with a meat knife? The book Atzei Eilah addresses this, and the author of Bircas Habayis, Rabbi Einhorn [?], writes that although the Pri Megadim is stringent about eating something cut with a dairy knife after meat, even the Pri Megadim agrees that if someone ate an onion cut with a meat knife, he does not have to wait six hours. He brings support for this from the words of Rabbi Akiva Eiger in section 2. And the reasoning behind the distinction is simple. When someone eats meat, our Sages instituted a six-hour wait. Here the Pri Megadim says that when you eat something sharp, it is as though you ate dairy. But if I did not eat meat, and instead ate an onion cut with a meat knife, the reasons for our Sages’ decree do not apply at all. The taste will not be perceptible here at all, and therefore there is no need to be stringent about this even according to the Pri Megadim. That is the conclusion in Atzei Eilah. So even those who are careful to follow the Pri Megadim do not need to be stringent about an onion cut with a meat knife. Some books mention that there are people who are particularly careful and stringent about this, but those are personal stringencies, unlike following the Pri Megadim’s stringency, which has a substantial basis in halachah. Now I want to turn to the separation between dairy and meat. Do we find a requirement to separate

12:03 Speaker 2 dairy and meat? We have to remember that the basic practical ruling is that when someone eats dairy, as the Gemara puts it, “it may be eaten as afikoman,” he can eat meat immediately afterward. By law, he has to do several things: first, clean his hands so that no residue remains; and clean his mouth so that no actual dairy remains there. Then he may eat meat. The halachic authorities add that it must not be during the same meal. That is the basic halachah: there is no need to wait between dairy and meat. After eating dairy, one may eat meat immediately, provided one cleans one’s hands and mouth and ends the meal, with Bircas Hamazon, so that it is not the same meal. Nevertheless, we find that the halachic authorities were more stringent about this, as the Shulchan Aruch says: “Some are stringent even about eating meat after cheese, and that is the custom.” Some are stringent about waiting six hours after cheese before eating meat. The Shulchan Aruch cites this from the Mordechai in the name of the Maharam: “The custom is that if the cheese is hard, one does not eat even poultry after it without waiting six hours. Some are lenient, and one should not object, provided they do some cleaning and rinsing.” So the Shulchan Aruch—and it is good to be stringent. The Shulchan Aruch says that although the basic law requires no wait between dairy and meat, one should nevertheless wait six hours after what is called hard cheese. The basis for this is the words of the Maharam of Rothenburg. The Maharam of Rothenburg says, “In my youth, I used to make fun of this.” It goes against the law in the Gemara. Why are you inventing stringencies? He had also heard from his teachers that there was no need to be stringent about it; on the contrary, the custom seemed puzzling to him. What are you making up? The Gemara says, “It may be eaten as afikoman”—it may be eaten immediately. Why are you inventing rules for me? But once he encountered a problem, and he understood that there was reason for this stringency. So, of course, the whole idea of waiting six hours after hard cheese

14:22 Speaker 2 is a stringency, not a legal requirement. As the Shulchan Aruch puts it, “It is good to be stringent”—good and proper, but a stringency. What, then, is the reason to wait six hours after eating hard cheese? The Shach and the Taz, there in Shulchan Aruch, Yoreh De’ah 89, give what seem to be two different reasons and discuss the nature of the issue. The Taz brings up wormy cheese. This is cheese that has aged for a very long time, until worms have eaten into it. When you eat it, it has a strong, very sharp taste. That strong, sharp taste lingers in the mouth for a long time. So there is reason to be stringent: after eating something like that, you cannot simply rinse your mouth, clean your hands and eat meat. The taste of the cheese is still in your mouth; you may not eat meat now. The Taz says that this stringency applies specifically to wormy cheese, to cheese whose taste lingers in the mouth for such a long time. But with ordinary cheese that has become hard, there is no need to be stringent. That concern does not apply. You need to clean your mouth, and that is all—nothing more. That is the Taz’s view. The Shach writes that it does not have to reach the point of becoming wormy; it is enough for the cheese to be hard. The Shach says, “Presumably, if it has aged six months, it is considered hard,” as stated in Toras Chatas there, page 12. So the Shach and the Taz disagree about exactly which cheese this stringency applies to: only wormy cheese, as the Taz holds, or even ordinary hard cheese, as the Shach holds, provided it has aged six months. After six months it is genuinely hard, and there is already a concern that cheese will get stuck between our teeth. That is why we should be stringent, as the Pri Megadim explains there in discussing the disagreement between the Shach and the Taz. So in practice, nowadays, according to the Shach—according to the Taz, the issue is specifically cheese whose taste lingers. That

16:29 Speaker 2 is not yellow cheese or ordinary cheese. It is a very sharp cheese with a strong taste, the kind of cheese that is not very common in Israel, particularly not with the most stringent kosher certifications. According to the Shach, what matters is physical hardness: once all the moisture has left it, after six months, it is hard. So what is the status of cheeses called hard cheeses nowadays? Obviously, any cheese you can spread with a knife is not defined as hard cheese. Hermon cheese, which crumbles, has no basis for being considered hard cheese. Its taste does not linger, it cannot get stuck between the teeth, and it crumbles. There is no need whatsoever to wait six hours after eating it. The main discussion concerns what is called yellow cheese. Yellow cheese is harder: it does not spread; it is solid rather than liquid, and it is not pliable. Do we have to wait six hours after eating it or not? Clearly, none of these yellow cheeses are wormy, nor have they aged six months. Their production time is very short; it does not even reach a month. So, seemingly, they certainly do not qualify as hard cheese according to either the Shach or the Taz. Some of the leading halachic authorities in the Holy Land have nevertheless tended to be more stringent, on the grounds that no distinction should be made. But the basic practical ruling, as we have heard from prominent rabbis among Anash, is that there is no need to be stringent: after eating yellow cheese, one need not wait six hours. So although yellow cheese does not meet the straightforward halachic criteria for hard cheese—its taste does not linger, and it has not aged six months—several important halachic authorities here in the Holy Land in our generation have nevertheless ruled stringently and required a six-hour wait. This seems to be based more on the principle of not making distinctions, since, after all, it appears hard. In actual practice, there is no need to be stringent and wait six

18:23 Speaker 2 Hours after yellow cheese—as we have heard from prominent halachic authorities, including rabbis of Anash—there is no need to wait six hours after eating yellow cheese. All the more so with melted or cooked yellow cheese and the like; that is much simpler. So we were discussing the separation between eating dairy and meat. We said that, according to the basic law, no waiting is required at all—only cleaning the hands and mouth and ending the meal. The Shulchan Aruch mentions a stringency regarding hard cheese, as we discussed earlier. Even so, our custom is to be more stringent, based on the Zohar, which says that one may not eat dairy and then meat within the same hour. From those words of the Zohar, we derive the practice of waiting an hour between eating dairy and eating meat. After eating dairy, we wait an hour, and only then eat meat. Seemingly, this also takes the place of cleaning the hands and mouth, since presumably, within an hour our hands and mouth will be clean. But even for us, even when we wait an hour, we must make sure it is not part of the same meal. We therefore need to bentch between the dairy meal and the meat meal—something that comes up especially on Shavuos. On this point, let’s mention two more interesting discussions among the halachic authorities. The first is whether one may bentch to create that separation even though one intends to continue eating afterward. Isn’t that an unnecessary blessing? Right now I’m in the middle of a meal, and I don’t need to make blessings on the foods I eat. If I bentch now, I’ll have to make blessings on the foods I eat afterward. I washed my hands and ate cheese; now I want to wait an hour and eat meat. If I don’t bentch, I won’t need to make a blessing on the meat, because it is still part of the meal. But because I bentch, I

20:29 Speaker 2 need to make a blessing on the meat. Doesn’t that mean I’m creating an unnecessary blessing? This is a major dispute among the later halachic authorities. It would seem from the Gemara that it does, but as clarified in Orach Chaim, siman 249, Kuntres Acharon 6, it appears to be permitted: as long as I do it for a halachic reason, it is considered a necessary blessing, and there is no prohibition. A second interesting point relates to these laws of separating dairy from meat. The Maharsham was asked about someone who began a dairy meal, waited, and intended to bentch in order to end that meal and begin a new, meat meal. In practice, he forgot to bentch and suddenly found himself eating a meat meal. What should he do now? Must he stop eating and bentch, or may he continue? The Maharsham says it is considered one meal only if he originally intended not to bentch. If he intended to bentch in between, that shows that they are two meals. His intention shows that he had finished the first meal and was beginning a new one. Therefore, the Maharsham says, if he intended to bentch and forgot, he may continue eating meat now. He does not need to stop. These are considered two separate meals, so the required separation between dairy and meat has been observed. Let’s move on to a new topic connected with separating and waiting between meat and dairy: the six-hour wait for young children. How long must young children wait after meat before having dairy? Before giving the practical halacha, let’s mention its foundations. There is a Midrash in Pesikta Rabbasi connected with Shavuos. The Pesikta says that when Moshe Rabbeinu sought to write the Torah, the angels would not let him. Hakadosh Boruch Hu asked them, “How do you observe the Torah?” Hakadosh Boruch Hu asked the angels who were preventing Moshe Rabbeinu from writing the Torah: Do you keep the Shulchan Aruch? Are you careful to observe the Torah? What example did He give? Hakadosh Boruch Hu told the angels, “A Jewish child who has just been weaned”—a two-year-old who has stopped nursing from his mother—“observes it more than you do.” A child, a baby who has only just been weaned, already observes the Torah more than the angels. Where do we find a child observing the Torah more than the angels? “When he comes out of school, if he has eaten meat, he does not eat dairy until he has washed the meat from his hands.” Hakadosh Boruch Hu tells the angels: A Jewish child coming out of school knows not to eat dairy after meat until he has washed his hands. “But when you descended and visited Avraham Avinu under the tree, he served you meat and dairy, and you ate, as it says, ‘He took butter and milk and the calf.’ And from here,” the Pesikta concludes, “it says, ‘Do not cook a kid in its mother’s milk,’ [unclear] ‘Behold, I am sending an angel ahead of you’—because this was said to the angels.” So one of the ways the Jewish people were praised above the ministering angels is that even young children, just [unclear], are careful about the laws of meat and dairy and avoid eating them together. The Pesikta states the basic law: there is no need to wait at all between meat and dairy; the child washes the meat from his hands, makes sure he is clean, and may then eat. But we know from the Gemara that we do not follow only the basic law; rather, one must wait six hours, as mentioned earlier. So how long must children wait? In his commentary on the discussion in Chullin about separating meat and dairy, in the chapter Kol Habasar, the Meiri cites a view among the early authorities: “Some explain that a minor who cannot manage to wait six hours, and whose meals are close together”—a child who eats meals close together and therefore cannot wait six hours—“may be assumed to digest more quickly, both in the intestines and between the teeth.” Some say that for young children, the reasons for separating meat from dairy—which, as we said, are meat caught between the teeth and digestion—work differently. Young children eat more frequent meals; it may be assumed that digestion is faster for them, and that their teeth become clean faster as well. Therefore, children need not wait six hours. Rather, “once he has ended one meal and set a time to eat again, that is enough, even within six hours, for six hours were mentioned only as the interval from one meal to the next.” That is the view of those commentators. They argue that, in principle, the basic halacha does not require children to wait six hours. Why not? Because their meals are closer together, their digestion and the cleaning of their teeth may be faster. So waiting the usual interval between their meals is equivalent to a six-hour wait for an adult. That is their view. But the Meiri says something interesting: “Although their words do not seem correct, because ‘from one meal to the next’ was stated without qualification and means an interval of six hours, [unclear]; otherwise, you would leave the matter without a fixed measure. Nevertheless, the same question may be considered regarding poultry, which digests more easily than other meat.” So the Meiri already brings a dispute among the early authorities: How long must children wait? Some commentators shorten the time and say it depends on the interval between the child’s meals. When that interval is short, the wait is short, because digestion and cleaning happen quickly. But the Meiri says no; he does not accept that distinction. Why? Because otherwise, “you would leave the matter without a fixed measure.” Throughout their teachings, our Sages established clear rules and boundaries—when something begins and when it ends. Without clear rules and boundaries, everyone would set their own. Therefore, in the Meiri’s view, it does not seem right to be lenient in this way. Nevertheless,

22:53 Speaker 2 The angels who objected to Moshe Rabbeinu receiving the Torah: Do you observe the Shulchan Aruch? Are you careful to keep the Torah? What is an example of this? Hakadosh Boruch Hu tells the angels, “A weaned child of Israel”—a two-year-old who has stopped nursing from his mother—“observes it more than you do.” A child who has only just been weaned already keeps the Torah more than the angels. Where do we find a child keeping the Torah more than the angels? “When he leaves school, if he has eaten meat, he does not eat dairy until he washes his hands clean of the meat.” Hakadosh Boruch Hu tells the angels: A Jewish child leaving school knows that he may not eat dairy after meat until he washes his hands. “But when you came down to Avraham Avinu at the terebinths of Mamre and visited him, he brought you meat and dairy, and you ate, as it says: ‘He took curds and milk and the calf.’ And from here,” the Pesikta concludes, “it is said: ‘Do not cook a kid in its mother’s milk’ ... [unclear] ‘Behold, I am sending an angel before you,’ for this was said to the angels.” So one of the ways in which the Jewish people surpassed the ministering angels is that even young children, just weaned, observe the laws of meat and dairy and take care not to eat them together. The Pesikta states the basic law: There is actually no need to wait between meat and dairy. Rather, he washes his hands clean of the meat, makes sure he is clean, and then he may eat. But we know from the Gemara that we do not stop at the basic law; one must wait six hours, as mentioned earlier. So how long must children wait? The Meiri, in his commentary on the discussion in Chullin about separating meat and dairy, in the chapter Kol Habasar, cites an opinion among the Rishonim. There are those who explain that a child who cannot manage to wait six hours, whose meals are close together—a child who eats meals in quick succession—and therefore cannot wait six hours, may be assumed to digest more quickly, both

25:18 Speaker 2 in the intestines and between the teeth. Some say that the reason for separating meat and dairy, as we discussed, is meat caught between the teeth and the time needed for digestion. With young children, whose meals are more frequent and closer together, we may assume that digestion in the intestines is faster and that their teeth clear of meat faster as well. Therefore, children need not wait six hours. Rather, once he has finished one meal and set a time to eat another, that is enough, even within six hours, since the six-hour period was mentioned only as the time between one meal and the next. That is the opinion of those commentators. They argue that, in principle, the law does not require children to wait six hours. Why not? Because their meals are more frequent, we may assume that they digest food faster and that their teeth clear of meat faster. So waiting the length of time between his meals counts for him as the equivalent of an adult waiting six hours. That is their view. But the Meiri says something interesting: “Although their words do not seem correct, because the time between one meal and the next was stated without qualification, meaning approximately six hours, [unclear]; otherwise, you would make the rule vary from person to person. Nevertheless, one could consider this in the case of poultry, which is easier to digest than other meat.” So the Meiri already cites a dispute among the Rishonim. How long must children wait? Some commentators shorten the time and say it depends on the interval between the child’s meals. When that interval is short, the wait is short, because digestion and the clearing of the teeth are faster. But the Meiri says no; he does not accept that distinction. Why? Because otherwise, “you would make the rule vary from person to person.” In all their rulings, our Sages established clear rules and boundaries—when something begins and when it ends. Without clear rules and boundaries, each person would set them for himself. Therefore, in the Meiri’s opinion, it does not seem right to be lenient in this way. Nevertheless,

27:28 Speaker 2 The Meiri says that with poultry, there is more reason to be lenient in these matters, along with many other arguments of the poskim. The discussion is treated at length in the writings of the poskim, as in Yabia Omer, vol. 1, siman 4, which brings much further debate on the subject. [unclear] There is a letter from the gaon Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Shimon Dworkin, the mara d’asra of the Rebbe’s beis midrash [unclear] and one of the elder Chabad chassidim of the previous generation. Let’s read his words: “Regarding educating young children to eat dairy after meat: In my opinion, for the very youngest and weakest children, you may be lenient and wait one hour, after cleaning and rinsing the mouth. For older children”—still under bar mitzvah, of course—“if this is difficult for them, at least three or four hours. There are opinions that, since the day is shorter in winter and the interval is from one meal to the next, this length of time suffices in summer as well. [unclear] But in our case, one may be lenient for the time being.” Let’s explain what he means. Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Shimon Dworkin is saying: When I’m lenient with a child, I don’t set arbitrary intervals. I don’t invent times based on my own reasoning and logic, because there would be no limit to that. [unclear] If I want to set a waiting time for young children, I have to find a basis for it in halachah. Besides the opinion requiring six hours, we also find an established opinion—the Rema’s—that waiting one hour is enough. Rabbi Dworkin also cites what appears in Darchei Teshuvah, siman 89: poskim record a Jewish custom of waiting three or four hours, since in winter the interval between meals is shorter. So, Rabbi Dworkin says, once I find these different opinions in halachah, I can rely on existing halachic opinions for young children. For the very youngest children, then, wait one hour. For the weakest and youngest children—

29:48 Speaker 2 wait one hour. Up to age two or three, when they’re weak, wait one hour. As they grow a little older, they have more strength, can eat other foods, and aren’t agitated or distressed, wait longer with them. Following the halachic guidelines, wait three hours at age three, and later increase it to four hours. Of course, when appropriate, the aim is to bring them to waiting the full six hours required by halachah. And why, really, should we try to have them wait six hours? Logically, there are so many grounds for leniency with young children. Even so, this is about education: educating them in Jewish practice and in the halachah of the Shulchan Aruch. So all the leniencies we’re discussing—waiting one hour for weak children, three hours, four hours—apply when there is a real need. But if a child ate meat and now wants ice cream, why be lenient? We’re talking about a genuine, practical need. In such a case, no, you don’t have to insist that the child wait the full length of time; you can be lenient and wait one hour for the youngest children, three for older ones, four, and so on. But when it’s simply a treat and there’s no need, it’s very worthwhile to try to have even young children wait the proper, required amount of time. We should mention another opinion among Chabad rabbis. Rabbi Belinow gives a somewhat different schedule. He writes that up to age two, there’s no need to wait at all, only to clean the mouth. From ages three through five, wait three hours; at ages six and seven, four hours; at age eight, five hours; and at age nine, six hours. In other words, starting around ages five, six, or seven, add an hour each time and educate the child gradually. Perhaps that’s good, sound educational advice. Again, from the standpoint of halachah, we don’t set these matters by arbitrary intervals; there are parameters and rules, as our Sages established for

31:53 Speaker 2 us.