Lehisraanen Episode 16: Rabbi Yosef Yitzchok Katzman (Crown Heights) | Part Two

00:00 Speaker 1 Shalom aleichem, and welcome to another episode of the podcast Lehitra’anein, where chassidim share memories and bring to life the times they spent in the Rebbe’s presence and under his care, at 770, the source of life. In this way, we chassidim refresh our connection to the Rebbe, relive the atmosphere of those days, and make good resolutions to strengthen our study of the Rebbe’s Torah and follow his ways. And with Hashem’s help, we will see him again very soon. This week we continue refreshing our connection to the Rebbe with Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Katzman, in the second part of his memories and experiences from the Rebbe’s years of the 5730s and 5740s, as a bochur and as a young married man. Rabbi Katzman goes into every detail of what happened. As someone who lived it with his whole being, he will bring it to life for us and refresh our connection. And with Hashem’s help, very soon we will all merit the light of the face of the living King, and all of us will see the Rebbe again speedily. This week’s episode is dedicated to the success of all the Rebbe’s shluchim in the holy city of Netanya. More than fifty shluchim, may they continue to increase, are now holding their annual fundraising campaign for the activities of the Chabad Houses in the city. May each of them see great success, materially and spiritually, both in the campaign and in preparing the city and the entire world to greet our righteous Moshiach, with more Torah classes and more material and spiritual activity that brings nachas to the Rebbe, who sent them. Donated by one of the city’s shluchim, for his merit and the merit of his family.

01:31 Speaker 2 I was in Oholei Torah. I was actually in the second class, but I was in both classes.

01:41 Speaker 1 You helped Oholei Torah grow.

01:42 Speaker 2 Yes, because we insisted. At one point, the school only went up to fifth grade. First of all, when I entered Oholei Torah, there were maybe fifty students in the whole school. It went up to fifth grade. After fifth grade, you moved on to another school. Yes. Then the class above mine reached that point, and they insisted: “We’re not leaving. We’re staying.” Okay, so Oholei Torah hired a new melamed and added another class. The next year, we said the same thing: “We’re continuing.” Another melamed. Until there was no more room in the building. By the time my class reached that age, it was already 5729, even before 5729. By 5727 there wasn’t enough room, and we started moving around. Yes, from one shul to another.

02:54 Speaker 1 From one neighborhood shul to another.

02:56 Speaker 2 Yes. There was a shul right near Oholei Torah, which was on Eastern Parkway near Buffalo—way out there. There was a shul on Lincoln Place between Buffalo and Rochester. We would daven—we would learn there. After that they moved to a shul on Lefferts. And then they kept moving around until they reached Oholei Torah on Troy. Troy started in 5730, and even there, there wasn’t enough room. In 5733, we moved to [unclear], to [unclear], where the kollel is now. We learned there for at least that year, 5733. Yes, 5733. The benefit was that, from Minchah and Maariv, you were with the Rebbe every day. That was something. Paradise, truly paradise. If you wanted, you could come and see the Rebbe going in and out of 770. One thing I remember personally: I was a kid, a young bochur.

04:04 Speaker 1 Sixteen.

04:04 Speaker 2 I remember, I would daven and stand there. The bochurim would always move away.

04:12 Speaker 1 To the sides.

04:13 Speaker 2 To the south side, but I stayed. There was only one row on the west side. There were a few older men there, Hendel Lieberman.

04:28 Speaker 1 In the small zal, you mean, in—

04:29 Speaker 2 The small zal, yes.

04:30 Speaker 1 On the side they called the sukkah.

04:31 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

04:31 Speaker 1 There was just one row of older men.

04:33 Speaker 2 And the Rebbe was on the east side, by an ordinary table, with an ordinary bench. He would daven Shemoneh Esrei holding the siddur in his hand, and afterward he would take three steps back and forward. He was right there, in the middle of the room.

04:54 Speaker 1 Almost as far as the...

04:55 Speaker 2 Yes, and somehow I would stand there.

05:00 Speaker 1 While the bochurim were generally near the smaller room, what they called the room of—

05:03 Speaker 2 And over there, where I went, there was space. I would stand there when the Rebbe came out of Oseh Shalom. I was really, really close. One of the things I managed to hear many times was the Rebbe saying, “May He bring us the salvation of the King, speedily in our days.” He would say it many times. Once, I think I even counted ten times. But it was—

05:32 Speaker 1 The whole passage, or just the...

05:33 Speaker 2 No! That particular phrase: “May He bring us the salvation of the King, speedily in our days. May He bring us the salvation of the King, speedily in our days.” I heard from others that sometimes he said more words as well. I don’t know. I remember hearing “May He bring us the salvation of the King, speedily in our days” many times. That was one of the things that really, really stayed with me. To experience that, you had to be a child, free of responsibilities. That’s how we grew up, with all those privileges—being with the Rebbe here and there. The later years are another story.

06:15 Speaker 1 Which we’ll get to in a moment.

06:17 Speaker 2 There’s also yechidus. We need to talk about yechidus. Yechidus. This was my last yechidus. I merited to have it as I was approaching seventeen, in 5734.

06:34 Speaker 1 The Yom Kippur War was a time of—

06:35 Speaker 2 I went into yechidus after the Yom Kippur War. Something interesting happened then. My father held that, based on what the Rebbe wrote in Likkutei Sichos, volume 2, a boy could start putting on Rabbeinu Tam tefillin. The Rebbe writes that he wonders why Rabbeinu Tam tefillin aren’t put on, like Rashi tefillin, from bar mitzvah. But that wasn’t the practice. At bar mitzvah, you started with only Rashi tefillin. When you reached eighteen, you would ask the Rebbe. Sometimes the Rebbe answered yes right away. Sometimes it was on condition that you had your own pair of Rabbeinu Tam tefillin. Sometimes there were conditions about going to mikveh or learning Chassidus. My father came to me before that yechidus and said, “Ask the Rebbe about putting on Rabbeinu Tam tefillin.” I said to him, “First of all, no one does that. Why should I suddenly do it? Second, I’ve heard that the Rebbe sometimes makes it conditional. At least buy me a pair of tefillin, and I’ll tell the Rebbe that that problem doesn’t exist.” But I don’t know what it was—he insisted. He really pressed me. Usually he wasn’t like that, but he simply wouldn’t let up. I went into yechidus and wrote it down. What did I write? I wasn’t asking for myself, but my father was pressing me, so I asked about Rabbeinu Tam tefillin. The Rebbe, without—without, how should I put it—without, without—

08:29 Speaker 1 Without stopping, without—

08:30 Speaker 2 He said to me, “What you write about Rabbeinu Tam is a proper thing.” That’s it. Without any... So I don’t know what to make of it or how to interpret it. Those are the facts. That’s what happened. And then, in 5736, the Rebbe spoke on Purim about everyone doing it, and that’s when the practice began for everyone to put on Rabbeinu Tam tefillin. What else? What else can I tell you?

09:07 Speaker 1 What’s the first year you remember—not just as a child, but when you were already a little older?

09:11 Speaker 2 Tishrei for us—okay, this is also part of life in Crown Heights. What was Tishrei like? There were a few things. First of all, we really lived from one Tishrei to the next. We always knew: Tishrei was coming, guests were coming, and everything would be different. The Rebbe was different, [unclear] was different. We were different, too. Even us. Why? Let me describe it. Parshas Ki Savo would arrive, and Reb Dovid Raskin, who was the baal korei, would read. When he reached the end of the parsha, the verse “Look down from Your holy dwelling,” he would raise his voice. It was like a shofar blast. Tishrei—

10:10 Speaker 1 Tishrei is coming.

10:11 Speaker 2 Tishrei is on its way. Then we would get ready for the guests. You have to understand: in those years, guests in general came to the Rebbe, but there was also a directive, at least for shluchim, not to come more than once every two years. And even once every two years—who could manage it? Did anyone have money? There was nothing. But people came. So every Tishrei there were new faces. A few people came every year, but they were the exceptions. There were new faces. And when people came, they didn’t come for two days, for Rosh Hashanah or Simchas Torah. They came—

11:04 Speaker 1 From Shabbos [unclear] until Zos Chanukah.

11:05 Speaker 2 At lea—no. Not until Zos Chanukah.

11:08 Speaker 1 That’s a novelty. That’s a novelty.

11:09 Speaker 2 No, no, there were... Chai Elul, yes. Some came from Chai Elul until after Shabbos Bereishis. A month and a half.

11:22 Speaker 1 Five, six weeks.

11:23 Speaker 2 Yes. And everything revolved around that. Which organizations were involved? There was Tzach, and there was Merkos. Today people call it the secretariat. Back then they called it Merkos, and they took care of everything for the guests. If someone needed a phone number, he would go into the secretariat and ask, “Where does so-and-so live? What’s the address?” They would answer you. In general, we used to wander into the secretariat office as though it were our own room. It was very interesting. So when the season began, Tzach would also start telling Anash when the planes were arriving, whether it was a charter or an ordinary flight.

12:15 Speaker 1 Flights they knew guests were coming on.

12:17 Speaker 2 So what does it mean when flights arrive? Everyone had to go to the airport, stand there waiting, and find a guest. Today it’s not... things are different. I remember my father didn’t even have a car yet. He would go and come back with a guest. Sometimes he was lucky and someone arrived—

12:47 Speaker 1 Whom he knew.

12:48 Speaker 2 Whom he knew. For example, I remember we once had Reb Avrom Lison[?] staying with us. He was our guest for a month and a half. I remember he slept in my bed and I slept on the couch. That’s etched in my memory. We would host guests, and more. That was how things worked. We waited eagerly: the guests were coming. I don’t know exactly how it showed. Older people could simply see the change in the Rebbe when guests arrived. It was wonderful. And then, you know, Selichos would soon begin. I’m talking about before the regular farbrengens began.

13:37 Speaker 1 Which started in 7/8.

13:38 Speaker 2 In [unclear]. Even in [unclear].

13:41 Speaker 1 Even on the first night.

13:43 Speaker 2 No, even in [unclear] it wasn’t regular yet. But with Selichos, you got a bonus. It wasn’t just Tomchei Temimim—the Rebbe came out for Selichos. The Rebbe came out every time for Selichos. Selichos was upstairs in the small zal, as I remember from my earliest memories. You’d get there and squeeze in, with more and more pushing as people tried to get closer. But the Rebbe would arrive and say Selichos. And I think the Rebbe stood in the same place. Yes, in the left corner. Yes, like—

14:31 Speaker 1 Like at Tomchei Temimim, not like yours.

14:32 Speaker 2 But with a shtender. He said Selichos with a shtender.

14:37 Speaker 1 A full shtender, or the kind you put on a table?

14:39 Speaker 2 No, no, not a full shtender. Yes. Selichos was special. I remember several times when we came for Selichos in the morning, at the regular time of seven, and there was no Selichos because there had been yechidus the night before and the Rebbe had said Selichos—

15:03 Speaker 1 Earlier.

15:03 Speaker 2 At four or five in the morning. I remember instances like that. Another thing was—

15:12 Speaker 1 Just while you mention it, it’s interesting: the niggun they start, “Rachamana Liba Ba’i,” afterward—did the Rebbe start that?

15:18 Speaker 2 That was only on the first night.

15:21 Speaker 1 Only the first night.

15:23 Speaker 2 And maybe on Erev Rosh Hashanah too.

15:24 Speaker 1 But not during the week.

15:25 Speaker 2 No. But on the first night Selichos was downstairs. And then there was another bonus: on Erev Rosh Hashanah the Rebbe davened with the minyan. There wasn’t a fixed time, though, which was interesting. After Selichos—oh, and Selichos on Erev Rosh Hashanah was at six-thirty, not seven. It was at six-thirty. After Selichos the Rebbe went to the mikveh, and Shacharis was when he came back. Sometimes eight-thirty, sometimes nine.

16:02 Speaker 1 Downstairs.

16:03 Speaker 2 No, upstairs.

16:03 Speaker 1 Upstairs?

16:04 Speaker 2 Upstairs. You could stand close and see the Rebbe wearing tallis and tefillin.

16:13 Speaker 1 And he put on Rabbeinu Tam tefillin right there in front of everyone, close up.

16:15 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. And—

16:19 Speaker 1 Interesting. I don’t think there’s any record of that. I think you’re leaving out—

16:24 Speaker 2 A picture? I don’t believe so. The whole idea of taking pictures was so out of the question. That was a bonus on Erev Rosh Hashanah. Yes, yes, there were really three times, four times, at most five times a year when we saw the Rebbe wearing tefillin.

16:45 Speaker 1 An occasion you remember—

16:45 Speaker 2 There was Erev Yom Kippur, Purim, and the yahrzeit. On every Yud Shvat; later on, at [unclear], but Yud Shvat and Yom Kippur. And then... No, no. Erev Rosh Hashanah too. Again, that was the routine: after davening, Rabbeinu Tam tefillin. Many people also tried to go to the Ohel and come back between Selichos and Shacharis, because after Shacharis people lined up for—

17:32 Speaker 1 Panim.

17:32 Speaker 2 Panim. That took time. And people tried, in what I call my early years, not to be in line while the Rebbe was there. No, although—

17:50 Speaker 1 They understood—

17:51 Speaker 2 They would start. But later, the idea was to be there when the Rebbe had finished. The Rebbe was inside. And then preparations began for the new year. The shul took on a new look—a different physical appearance. For example, the platform where the Rebbe sat during a farbrengen was usually made of a few pieces of wood, boards—I don’t know what you call them. Plywood, a few sheets of plywood over a row of benches. Benches like the ones in 770 today, because back then 770 generally had tables and benches without—

18:45 Speaker 1 Without backs.

18:46 Speaker 2 Yes.

18:46 Speaker 1 I still remember those sheets of plywood in 5722[?].

18:50 Speaker 2 Yes.

18:50 Speaker 1 When the Rebbe would walk.

18:52 Speaker 2 Oh, yes, from his place—

18:53 Speaker 1 On Sukkos, from his place to give the Sukkos blessing, the Sukkos sicha.

18:56 Speaker 2 Okay.

18:57 Speaker 1 They put it there. I remember because I was a bar mitzvah boy. It was—

19:01 Speaker 2 You couldn’t believe it.

19:02 Speaker 1 It’s a picture; there’s some basis for it going back to the fifties.

19:06 Speaker 2 So those were the benches they used for—

19:10 Speaker 1 Those plywood sheets.

19:11 Speaker 2 For Rosh Hashanah. On Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, they sold the seats, so people sat there too. The whole shul looked different. And then, after Rosh Hashanah, there was [unclear], which was very short.

19:37 Speaker 1 As a little child, did you manage to get into the meals upstairs?

19:41 Speaker 2 Just on Yom Tov, on certain dates? No.

19:44 Speaker 1 Okay.

19:44 Speaker 2 You asked, so I’ll tell you, but remember where we left off. I distinctly remember—I was probably ten—several bochurim were standing in the small zal upstairs. At around two o’clock, a bochur came in and said he had just been at the meal. It was Sukkos, probably. Sukkos? Chanukah? I don’t remember. It was a Yom Tov. The bochurim descended on him: “Wow, what nerve! What business does a bochur have going up there?” And I’m talking about bochurim who were chassidim, serious bochurim, who surely would have been among the first to go if they’d had the chance. But it was unthinkable, unthinkable. Sometimes we’d get scraps of information about what had happened. Meir Harlig[?] did go in, I think, and when someone came down, he would tell us. But it wasn’t accepted practice to go up there on Sukkos. On Pesach, I did go.

21:01 Speaker 3 You went up there too.

21:03 Speaker 2 As a child, as a child. When we had the Seder at home, on one night I would go to my grandfather’s Seder. My uncle, Reb Zalman Chanin, was there. He’s a few years older than me. He was a bochur, I was a child, and he would come home and make the Seder.

21:29 Speaker 3 Quickly.

21:30 Speaker 2 In a flash, and then he’d run off. He would ask the—

21:35 Speaker 3 Mah Nishtanah?

21:35 Speaker 2 Mah Nishtanah, and run off. So I don’t know when I suddenly decided I wanted to go too, and I started running along with him. I must have gone four times. Not four times—two nights, two... I went four times. One night—no, it was one night each year, the night I went to my grandfather’s.

22:00 Speaker 3 So there were hardly any children there. The child—

22:03 Speaker 2 No. I was there for the famous Seder people talk about, [unclear] and all the—

22:12 Speaker 3 Pushing.

22:13 Speaker 2 The last one, which was less formal. I was there. So I arrived on the first night. Usually it was the second night, and I stayed for the farbrengen, but this time I came on the first night. I was a child. Behind where the Rebbe sat there was a kind of cabinet.

22:41 Speaker 3 A chest of drawers.

22:42 Speaker 2 Yes, something like that, but it stood on legs, so there was room underneath. As a child I would crawl under it and come out right behind the Rebbe. There was always a bochur there, but I was right there. And again, as a child, I stood on the windowsill. Where the bridge is now, there wasn’t a door; there was a window. I would stand on the windowsill and look right—

23:18 Speaker 3 Down at the Rebbe.

23:19 Speaker 2 Down at the Rebbe, and I saw things. I remember how excited the Rashag became. The Rebbe started singing “Prozhe Station.” They had always sung only “Keili Atah,” and here the Rebbe started singing—I think it was after—

23:43 Speaker 3 After he finished pouring the wine from the cup into the sink.

23:45 Speaker 2 After he poured the wine from the cup back into the sink, the Rebbe started singing “Prozhe Station.” So that was right after the first night, “B’vo B’shalom.” I don’t remember exactly. That was apparently the only time the Rebbe really let loose. There, the Rebbe always sat as a chossid, but here the Rebbe himself started dancing. I don’t know whether he stood up or stayed seated and moved his hands. He encouraged the singing; people started singing and jumping, and then they broke the table. Chairs. The Rashag was very moved. I’m telling it exactly as I remember it. I was a child, after all. He, he got up.

24:43 Speaker 4 Toward the Rebbe.

24:44 Speaker 2 And leaned over.

24:46 Speaker 4 Toward the Rebbe.

24:46 Speaker 2 Over the table, toward the Rebbe, and said to the Rebbe, “May Hashem help that you lead us to greet Moshiach and bring me into the circle.” I remember the Rebbe raised his eyes and looked to the right, at the chair of the previous Rebbe, the Frierdiker Rebbe. The Rashag understood immediately what was happening. He said it again, in tears, with such emotion.

25:46 Speaker 4 The same thing, only he added the Frierdiker Rebbe.

25:48 Speaker 2 Yes.

25:49 Speaker 4 I’m just translating it.

25:50 Speaker 2 That’s how I remember it. And the Rebbe answered aloud, “Amen.” It was something wonderful. That’s a memory. You asked about Sukkos; that’s something special I remember.

26:06 Speaker 4 Let’s get back to Tishrei.

26:08 Speaker 2 Tishrei. After that came Aseres Yemei Teshuvah.

26:11 Speaker 4 Wait a second—do you remember tekios?

26:15 Speaker 2 Tekios. Listen.

26:17 Speaker 4 No, I’m not asking you to recount exactly what happened, because probably nobody can anymore.

26:21 Speaker 2 As a child, we knew that this was where the world was run from.

26:28 Speaker 4 It was with the Rashal.

26:29 Speaker 2 “All the inhabitants of the world pass before You.” The Rebbe blows the shofar. That was it. As a child, I really felt it. If the shofar blasts were difficult, I got scared. It didn’t sound good. I hoped the blasts would go well. The maftir was also very important. In the later years that didn’t happen. Throughout the year, the Rebbe would cry during the maftir readings, but the maftir about Chana on Rosh Hashanah frightened me! The main thing was to notice which words it happened at. Was it “For this child I prayed,” or toward the end, where it says...

27:28 Speaker 4 “And I poured out my soul before Hashem.”

27:30 Speaker 2 “And I poured out my soul before Hashem.” It was interesting which verses he would pray at. On the second day of Rosh Hashanah, hardly at all, despite “Is Ephraim My precious son” and “My compassion is stirred for him.” Not really. But the first day was very serious. Rosh Hashanah was serious. You kept quiet; you didn’t talk. The Rebbe didn’t talk. People said that on Sukkos, too, the Rebbe hardly spoke. They didn’t even sing at the meal. But on the other hand, there was “Avinu Malkeinu” before davening. The Rebbe would come in, sit down, say Tehillim, and then stand up and motion with his hand, and they would begin “Avinu Malkeinu.” That was always before davening, and then again during Shacharis and at Minchah. But apart from that, if the chazzan was in the middle of the repetition of the Amidah, he would... but not so much. Other things about Rosh Hashanah: there are the famous Rosh Hashanahs everyone talks about, 5734 and 5732, with the Russians. Before that, though, a few interesting details. One year was 5727, or 5726 or 5727. Reb Shashonkin arrived with his son, Yoske. He came to the Rebbe. A Jew from Russia was like a precious gem. Over the years, there were only a few of them—one, two, three, four, five. It really added something special. The Rebbe placed them beside him for the shofar blowing. He looked for the boy before the shofar blowing.

29:54 Speaker 5 Shashonkin’s son.

29:55 Speaker 2 Yes. He was my age—may he live a long life. He really was my age, so we were either nine or ten. Later there was a farbrengen, a Rosh Hashanah farbrengen. The Rebbe washed his hands for bread, and we children were playing outside. That really was the routine: we played outside, and when there was a niggun, we went in. In those years there was a special place for the children. They took the platform used for the Torah reading, put it behind the aron kodesh, and the children stood on it.

30:34 Speaker 5 The aron kodesh in the small [unclear] looked like a big aron.

30:37 Speaker 2 Yes, the small [unclear]. The children stood there. We would go in to say l’chaim and then go back. We were outside, and suddenly someone came out to us: “Shashonkin, Shashonkin, the Rebbe is looking for you.” The Rebbe is looking for him? We’re together, so we all go in.

30:58 Speaker 5 This is going to be interesting.

30:59 Speaker 2 Yes. And how was he supposed to get over to...? He climbed over the tables. I remember the sight. I managed to climb up somewhere high, and I could see him crossing the table and approaching the Rebbe. The Rebbe asked him whether he had washed his hands. He said no. The Rebbe said, “Go wash your hands.” So he went back over the tables, and the Rebbe watched with a smile.

31:29 Speaker 5 A smile on Rosh Hashanah.

31:30 Speaker 2 Yes, a smile. He watched this bewildered boy climbing back and forth over the tables. The boy came to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe told him to come around the table—not to stand in front of him, but to come around.

31:44 Speaker 5 To come around beside him and stand at his side.

31:46 Speaker 2 Yes, and his father was standing there too. He came around the table. The Rebbe called him over; he had washed his hands. The Rebbe cut him a slice.

31:57 Speaker 5 Of challah.

31:57 Speaker 2 Challah—a huge piece of challah.

32:00 Speaker 5 He broke it off by hand.

32:02 Speaker 2 Yes, and dipped it in honey, properly dipped in honey. He gave it to the boy, and the boy ate it, with honey all over his hands...

32:13 Speaker 5 Honey.

32:14 Speaker 2 He made the brachah and started eating, with honey all over him, and he started licking his fingers, while the Rebbe watched and smiled. It was such a sweet sight: the Rebbe attending to a child on Rosh Hashanah. Ah, it was something. That’s one thing. I remember something else, from that year or the following year, when the Vishatzky brothers arrived.

32:45 Speaker 5 Michoel and Bentzion.

32:47 Speaker 2 Michoel and Ben Chaim—Bentzion.

32:49 Speaker 5 Shaul Ber.

32:50 Speaker 2 No, Shaul Ber had come many years earlier. He was my teacher for many years, and he came alone.

32:57 Speaker 5 Shloime.

32:57 Speaker 2 Shloime didn’t arrive that year. It was those two brothers.

33:01 Speaker 5 Michoel Sholom and Ben Chaim.

33:03 Speaker 2 Yes. What’s interesting is that this has stayed stuck in my mind: they put up signs to reserve places on the benches, saying, “Reserved for the Vishatzky brothers.”

33:20 Speaker 5 Where were they coming?

33:21 Speaker 2 No, this was during davening. Where did they daven? The Rebbe stood in the corner. Usually there was a table next to him where the Rashag sat.

33:34 Speaker 5 Where was that? Near the chazzan’s stand.

33:36 Speaker 2 That table. Sternberg also had a place beside it, and beyond Sternberg was the chazzan. So it was on that table.

33:50 Speaker 5 Near the Rashag.

33:51 Speaker 2 Yes, between the Rashag—

33:53 Speaker 5 And the Rebbe.

33:54 Speaker 2 And the Rebbe, they put signs for Michoel Vishatzky and Bentzion Vishatzky.

34:00 Speaker 5 And they were actually young men.

34:01 Speaker 2 Young men, yes. Redheads. I remember them. That’s a memory. You could see how the Rebbe drew them close. They had just arrived—

34:11 Speaker 5 You don’t remember when Reb Mendel and Reb Berke arrived?

34:14 Speaker 2 I’ll tell you.

34:15 Speaker 5 Since you mentioned Reb Mendel.

34:16 Speaker 2 Reb Berke, I don’t—

34:19 Speaker 5 That was 5725.

34:19 Speaker 2 I don’t remember when he arrived.

34:21 Speaker 5 5725.

34:22 Speaker 2 Reb Mendel I do remember. Reb Mendel arrived for Tishrei. No, no, I don’t remember. He arrived for 19 Kislev. I think he arrived for Tishrei in 5725. That’s my understanding. Maybe it was 5721? I don’t remember whether it was 5721 or 5725. Reb Mendel arrived, and Reb Mendel came together with Shashonkin. To me as a child, they looked like brothers. They both had long beards and wore caps. I remember that during Chol Hamoed Sukkos. Besides the fact that they often stood near the Rebbe during davening, on Sukkos the Rebbe had them sing a niggun from there. I remember how they stood. It went, “da-ram, da-ram, da-di, di, di...” That was the niggun they sang then. And I remember someone named Pevzner arriving from Riga. I think it was in 5728, or perhaps 5729. A Pevzner arrived from Riga, and the Rebbe also made quite a farbrengen of it, gave him mashke, and there was a—sorry—a farbrengen in 5729 that was also very special.

35:45 Speaker 5 [unclear] What does that mean? What does “My heart says” mean?

35:49 Speaker 2 Yes, but there were also things involving mashke. The Rebbe gave mashke to those who had come from there. Those were things you felt. You felt something was happening. This was the center of the world. This is exactly where the Rebbe is—the world.

36:11 Speaker 5 I wanted to ask: you mentioned that you were a small group of children. At Birchas Habanim, were you actually an even smaller group?

36:19 Speaker 2 For me, with Birchas Habanim, it was like this. The first time I was there, I think, was in 5730. I wasn’t bar mitzvah yet.

36:35 Speaker 5 Close to your bar mitzvah.

36:36 Speaker 2 Before bar mitzvah, you weren’t—

36:38 Speaker 5 Children didn’t go in there.

36:39 Speaker 2 No. But in 5730, I don’t know how I managed it. I remember it was terribly crowded. The bochurim were packed in; the whole thing was frightening. But I remember taking the elevator up, to the second or third floor, I don’t know which. I came out and went down the stairs, which were packed too, but somehow I managed.

37:09 Speaker 5 And you saw it from above.

37:09 Speaker 2 I found a gap and saw it from above. That was my first time. And the second time, in 5731, they tried to have the Rebbe give the brachah by the entrance to Gan Eden Hatachton—perhaps there, by Gan Eden Hatachton.

37:30 Speaker 5 In the passageway, in the lobby.

37:32 Speaker 2 Near the doorway, like that. It didn’t work; it was really not right. So in 5732 they asked permission, and the Rebbe agreed to come into the small zal. That was the beginning of it.

37:51 Speaker 5 They were particular that married men shouldn’t be at Birchas Habanim.

37:53 Speaker 2 Yes, I remember.

37:55 Speaker 5 If you were all pressing in at the door like that.

37:57 Speaker 2 Trying, trying. Yes. I remember some members of the community saying, “We’re allowed.” They stood in the hallway.

38:07 Speaker 5 But inside it was only him.

38:08 Speaker 2 They didn’t go inside. I think I heard people say that the Rebbe asked.

38:19 Speaker 5 Could you tell us a little now about the farbrengen in the sukkah? There aren’t many people left who can tell us about being inside the sukkah—at least, I don’t know many in Israel.

38:28 Speaker 2 Okay, so I mentioned this: the first thing I remember is Reb Mendel and Reb [unclear] singing the niggun. That was in the sukkah.

38:35 Speaker 5 The Rebbe sat a little farther...

38:38 Speaker 2 Where?

38:39 Speaker 5 In the sukkah. If we’re looking at the sukkah as it is today, where was the front? Where?

38:44 Speaker 2 I think...

38:46 Speaker 5 Was his back toward Tashlich?

38:48 Speaker 2 Yes, his back was toward Tashlich. It was where the wall of the 770 building comes out past the small zal, by the second room, a little farther along.

39:08 Speaker 5 Yes, making the sukkah narrower.

39:11 Speaker 2 Yes. So...

39:12 Speaker 5 That’s where the Rebbe would sit.

39:13 Speaker 2 Before that, just before that. Why do I remember it? Because I also remember standing, as a child, at the window of the other room, or going in if I managed to. There was a table—by then there were two tables, or maybe just one, maybe two—and the bochurim were along the side. So I would sit on the table that held the bochurim back. If there was a bochur who didn’t mind, I stayed. Otherwise, they would throw me out.

40:00 Speaker 5 Was it a different kind of atmosphere, or was it like in shul?

40:04 Speaker 2 It’s hard for me to say. In shul I wasn’t so far inside. During those years, in the sukkah I was farther inside because there was no other way. I do remember—well, I don’t know—the first time I heard that niggun. The Rebbe finished a sicha, and suddenly, “Veha-ramai levi de-ramai la.” The Rebbe didn’t start it; the crowd did. But I had never heard that niggun before. It was special. I remember the Sukkos when it rained.

40:46 Speaker 5 [unclear].

40:48 Speaker 2 An unbelievable downpour. So, so there was—

40:50 Speaker 5 So it broke through.

40:52 Speaker 2 So it was Thursday, Friday, Shabbos. And that was the order with the Rebbe on Sukkos: Thursday, Friday, Shabbos. So, as after Rosh Hashanah, there was a farbrengen, and there was one after the first days of Yom Tov and after Simchas Torah.

41:14 Speaker 5 Kos shel bracha.

41:15 Speaker 2 Yes, the Rebbe gave his hands. Then afterward came kos shel bracha. If it was Friday—uh, Thursday and Friday—then Friday ran into Shabbos, so the Rebbe wouldn’t distribute kos shel bracha then. The Rebbe waited until the next day, Shabbos. What difference did Shabbos make? It wasn’t exactly clear, but that was the order. The Rebbe distributed kos shel bracha on Shabbos.

41:45 Speaker 5 In the middle?

41:46 Speaker 2 No, no. After the farbrengen. Presumably before Mincha.

41:53 Speaker 5 Oh, so yes, during Shabbos.

41:55 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, during Shabbos, of course. I don’t remember whether it was... No, the Rebbe didn’t daven Mincha at the farbrengen place then. He finished the farbrengen, said the after-blessing—

42:06 Speaker 5 The afternoon farbrengen.

42:08 Speaker 2 Yes. And he would begin distributing, perhaps even before the after-blessing. I don’t remember. The Rebbe distributed kos shel bracha. So [unclear] was like this: there was Friday, Shabbos—uh, Thursday, Friday, Shabbos—and at night there was a farbrengen, and then during the day it rained. I remember the picture of the Rebbe sitting in the rain as though nothing had happened. I remember the coat on the back—

42:44 Speaker 5 On the back of the chair.

42:45 Speaker 2 Of the chair. He came in wearing a coat, but he didn’t sit with it on. And then there was kos shel bracha, the Rebbe out in the rain. I’m almost certain it was raining and the Rebbe distributed kos shel bracha there as though nothing had happened. Then there was the last time, [unclear]... By then they had made the sukkah a little bigger. What does that mean? Before, the sukkah covered only the area of 770. The other building was still there, with, what do you call it, parking for the resi— So one year they decided to build over that area, like a pyramid. It gave them a little extra space, up to the wall of the other building, where the library is. One extension, and they also built a platform. They didn’t just put up benches and tables; they built a platform. In other words, it was supposed to be more orderly. Unfortunately, it turned out the opposite. The benches and tables held up, but that platform didn’t, and they fell. The whole story with Rabbi [unclear], what the Rebbe said, and then the next year the Rebbe said it was dangerous and he wasn’t prepared to [unclear]. All kinds of things like that. Erev Yom Kippur. What was Erev Yom Kippur for us? It’s actually only in recent days, when people reminisce about life around the Rebbe and tell stories, that you become aware of it. I even heard women talking among themselves. Our whole lives revolved around the Rebbe. A Shabbos meal? There was no such thing. Of course, I’m talking more about the later years, because earlier it was only once a month. But our whole lives revolved around the Rebbe. Just as an example, in the later years I would go to the farbrengen, and when I came back, my wife would rush off to hear the review.

45:09 Speaker 6 The review.

45:09 Speaker 2 The review. Levi Gerlik would give the women a review in English. She would rush off. The Shabbos meal—and the Kiddush—would wait. Then we would have the Shabbos meal.

45:19 Speaker 6 You made it work.

45:20 Speaker 2 Yes, it was like that with everything. Erev Rosh Hashanah, Erev Yom Kippur, Erev Pesach—it all revolved around the Rebbe. Erev Yom Kippur: how did your Erev Yom Kippur begin? With kapparos. To do kapparos, we had to travel to the Bronx. That was a story in itself. There were no cars; you had to arrange a ride. When you got there... We would get up at four in the morning to make it, and anyone who could tried to get back early to see the Rebbe. The Rebbe’s kapparos were at six-thirty. Six-thirty. At first, the first times I was there, it was where today’s 770 is, right at the back. Yes, so people would run to catch the kapparos. Then Shacharis, but you also needed a place in line for lekach. People would hold places for lekach. How did you manage lekach and davening?

46:43 Speaker 6 The Rebbe also went to the mikveh.

46:44 Speaker 2 Right, and davening went very quickly. On Erev Yom Kippur, davening was really fast. The Rebbe went to the mikveh before Shacharis, and then came Shacharis. Not long after Shacharis, lekach began, and that went slowly. There was no rush; the Rebbe would stop people and even speak to them. It meant hours and hours standing in line. And you had to eat.

47:22 Speaker 6 No, no, no. You didn’t see it outwardly, let’s put it that way. You didn’t see the Rebbe under pressure, as though he had to keep to a clock.

47:30 Speaker 2 Keep to the clock? No.

47:32 Speaker 6 Surely there was pressure.

47:34 Speaker 2 That’s not—

47:34 Speaker 6 Keep to the clock? No.

47:36 Speaker 2 Right.

47:36 Speaker 6 What I remember—I mentioned here once Erev Yom Kippur 5732. It was simply incredible, that long sicha.

47:45 Speaker 2 No pressure. As though there was no pressure. As Rabbi said, for him there was no time. Afterward you still had to eat the meal, didn’t you? How did it all work? And then you had to come back for Mincha.

48:03 Speaker 6 Mikveh, [unclear].

48:04 Speaker 2 Yes, and there was no microphone then. There was no microphone at [unclear]. You had to push your way in.

48:14 Speaker 6 Upstairs or downstairs?

48:15 Speaker 2 I only remember downstairs. Yes, by the beginning of the fifties it was already downstairs. There’s a video.

48:24 Speaker 6 You’re right.

48:25 Speaker 2 There’s a video.

48:25 Speaker 6 The fifties—that’s around Chof-Gimmel or something?[?]

48:26 Speaker 2 Yes, there’s a very early video.

48:28 Speaker 6 Where you can see, yes, you can see the Rebbe.

48:30 Speaker 2 The Rebbe’s place was on the floor.

48:33 Speaker 6 Yes.

48:34 Speaker 2 So they would prepare something. I don’t know if they were actual steps or who knows what. The Rebbe would climb onto that table between him and the Rashag. The Rebbe would stand there. In the video you can see the Rebbe holding onto the—

48:50 Speaker 6 The wall.

48:51 Speaker 2 The wall.

48:51 Speaker 6 Now I understand where that table was.

48:53 Speaker 2 Yes, the Rebbe would stand like that, holding the wall, and say the blessing, always with his eyes closed. A very serious, short blessing. Usually it spoke about things like doing genuine teshuvah. Over the years it changed completely into sichos.

49:16 Speaker 6 Often, pesukim from the chapter of Tehillim.

49:19 Speaker 2 Not in those years.

49:21 Speaker 6 No, I mean later on.

49:22 Speaker 2 Later, yes. And afterward the bochurim [unclear], they didn’t eat at all. That’s a separate matter. We ran home to eat properly and come back there [unclear]. The whole thing of the Rebbe going to his place, taking a Sefer Torah and standing beside the chazzan—for us, the Rebbe was doing things that [unclear] would do, or something. Something was happening here. For us, Yom Kippur night was also very special. They sang a lot of [unclear], and [unclear] sang more than ever before. The next day, Yom Kippur, the Rebbe stayed for Tehillim afterward. But the next day, Yom Kippur, felt strange. There was nothing special in Shacharis, no maftir. It was a little like, okay, now we’re Jews like everyone else. Now we daven like—

50:45 Speaker 6 Like all of the Jewish people.

50:45 Speaker 2 Like Jews daven.

50:47 Speaker 6 What’s written in the machzor.

50:49 Speaker 2 Because we didn’t have those things. The only thing was the bowing, the bowing during Musaf.

50:54 Speaker 6 Seeing the Rebbe during the reading.

50:55 Speaker 2 That was something. The way the Rebbe bowed—even into the very latest years, the Rebbe bowed. I can’t manage to do it. Somehow the Rebbe dropped to his knees, prostrated himself, and got up. It was a kind of leap; that was how he did it. And during “VehaKohanim,” before they even began—when they began “VehaKohanim”—the Rebbe was already standing and looking at the chazzan.

51:35 Speaker 6 Actually, because that’s what it says. Yes. That’s what it says: that the Jewish people saw the Kohen then.

51:41 Speaker 2 It says the Rebbe Rashab used to do that, through the entire melody and the nusach. There was no break where you knew when the Rebbe would finish the reading. So to manage to see that bow, you had to stay alert and keep watching.

52:04 Speaker 6 Alert, to see when it would happen.

52:05 Speaker 2 Besides, the Rebbe was on the floor; there wasn’t a platform yet. And later we went up. At least you knew when they had finished bowing to—to—to—

52:19 Speaker 6 That’s where they begin.

52:20 Speaker 2 “All our people,” and then you knew there would be a reading before the chazzan began, and we... But that was afterward. Other than that, there was nothing. Then there was the break [?]. I have to tell you something. It’s a beautiful thing, though it has nothing to do with those years. Later on I developed this obsession: I loved seeing the Rebbe leave 770, especially after a farbrengen. But I would also run upstairs to see the Rebbe enter what they called Gan Eden Hatachton, and then go into his room. I remember once—actually, it happened twice. Once was on Yom Kippur, when the Rebbe went upstairs during the break [?], and once on Simchas Torah. It was Simchas Torah night, at four in the morning, after the hakafos and after the—after the farbrengen.

53:24 Speaker 6 After the farbrengen and after the hakafos.

53:25 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, after a whole night, ten hours. I ran upstairs and stood by the elevator.

53:41 Speaker 6 Next to the elevator, by...

53:43 Speaker 2 Yes. The Rebbe was passing. I don’t know whether I was already standing there when the Rebbe passed, or whether I was on the other side and ran over. The Rebbe went into Gan Eden Hatachton, opened the door and entered his room.

53:56 Speaker 6 Into Gan Eden HaElyon [?].

53:57 Speaker 2 Into Gan Eden HaElyon [?], alone. And he left the door open because Rabbi Chadakov still had to go in after him. So there were five seconds.

54:12 Speaker 6 When Gan Eden HaElyon [?] was open.

54:15 Speaker 2 I saw the Rebbe cross the... the...

54:20 Speaker 6 The threshold.

54:20 Speaker 2 The threshold. He ran like a child to his toys and opened a Gemara. He hadn’t taken off his hat. All right, on Yom Kippur he wasn’t wearing a hat, but no—

54:40 Speaker 6 Still wearing his tallis, with the—

54:41 Speaker 2 With his tallis. On Simchas Torah he didn’t take off his hat; he ran and opened a Gemara. Ask me how I know it was a Gemara. Maybe it was a Shulchan Aruch. But it was a book—

54:54 Speaker 6 A big book.

54:55 Speaker 2 To a child, that’s called a Gemara. Like—

55:00 Speaker 6 You’re remembering it from when you were still a child, and you can picture it clearly?

55:02 Speaker 2 No, I was already a bochur.

55:04 Speaker 6 The early 5730s.

55:07 Speaker 2 It was probably later. Probably the late 5730s, and I wouldn’t argue if you told me it was the early 5740s.

55:15 Speaker 6 Actually, maybe this is a good opportunity to jump ahead a little, even though we haven’t spoken about... about Simchas Torah. No, because what I’m saying is—

55:22 Speaker 2 Gladly.

55:22 Speaker 6 I’ll tell you why, too. There are still many guests from Simchas Torah I want to get to. But specifically as someone who, to me, represents a person who’s been here from age zero—let’s say, since you were a little boy—I want to jump ahead to the 5740s. There’s a feeling that the 5740s were different, a greater feeling, and also—

55:43 Speaker 2 Okay.

55:43 Speaker 6 I’m talking about getting a feel for the practical side of it.

55:46 Speaker 2 First of all, I have to disqualify myself. I was already married.

55:51 Speaker 6 Married. That also, also the—

55:53 Speaker 2 Being a yungerman is a different story.

55:56 Speaker 6 Let’s mention Vaad Hamimush, and everything you were involved in. After all, you were, let’s say, part of the walls of 770, there with the bochurim, and I specifically want to hear about that. We don’t have much time. It’s Erev Shabbos Kodesh, already well past midday. We still have...

56:10 Speaker 2 So, here’s how it was.

56:11 Speaker 6 A few episodes from the 5740s, as they say.

56:14 Speaker 2 By the 5740s, I had already begun my communal work. A little earlier, when I was a bochur, I was one of the organizers of the Yom Tov marches, and also of what’s called today [unclear], every Shabbos. I was involved in that. That was my work for at least two years. There was an incident in Williamsburg, which was my area, and after that I had to switch and go to other neighborhoods. That’s when they started going to Queens; until then, there had been no such thing. Now, speaking of that period, for the fiftieth anniversary we made a Shabbos march to very distant neighborhoods. We didn’t know whether there would be a farbrengen, so we prepared as though there wouldn’t be one. As it turned out, there was a farbrengen. They’re printing that farbrengen now, I know. It was in honor of the occasion; it was special. I don’t remember any special mention of that march. There was one incident with the marches. We all know the Rebbe called those who went somewhere close “smart boys.”

57:43 Speaker 6 Clever boys.

57:45 Speaker 2 Yes, the ones who went somewhere close. I remember one time, one year, when I sent... Oh, okay, this is another important point. Although I had reached—

57:56 Speaker 6 Feel free.

57:58 Speaker 2 I didn’t write to the Rebbe. That wasn’t how it worked. Above me was Tzach, and Tzach meant Rabbi Dovid Raskin. I passed things on to him, and he wrote to the Rebbe. So if you ask whether I received answers from the Rebbe about all that communal work, I didn’t. It might have happened once—

58:23 Speaker 6 That’s exactly why I asked [unclear], may he live for many years, Rabbi Nachum [unclear], who worked at Tzach.

58:27 Speaker 2 Yes.

58:28 Speaker 6 Even though I came in as a young married man.

58:29 Speaker 2 So, no, not even then.

58:29 Speaker 6 There was this sense of, “What do you want from me?” It belonged to Liebel, to the rabbi at Tzach, you know.

58:34 Speaker 2 Rabbi Shlomo Liebel. Right, right, right. That’s important to know.

58:36 Speaker 6 That was simply how things worked.

58:38 Speaker 2 That’s important to know.

58:39 Speaker 6 So what if he was the one who wrote it? He also knew how to write, and he would write. It doesn’t matter, you know.

58:43 Speaker 2 People ask about it today, so you should know. Today the Rebbe answers much more, and you have a much more direct connection. There was one time when we submitted a report, and I knew about the “smart boys.” What does that mean? Going to a shul in Crown Heights? That isn’t important. I remember one time Rabbi Dovid called me over and showed me a note, in large letters: kuf, hei, question mark.

59:21 Speaker 6 Exclamation mark.

59:22 Speaker 2 Exclamation mark.

59:23 Speaker 6 Meaning Crown Heights.

59:24 Speaker 2 Crown Heights—what was the question? So I immediately went and phoned all the shuls to find out. I submitted that, in my opinion, we had to do it. It was important too, even if the Rebbe called it “smart boys.”

59:41 Speaker 6 Where, where is Crown Heights? Why didn’t you report on going to Crown Heights?

59:44 Speaker 2 We had to. It was important to the Rebbe. Then there was more communal work with the Persian children. When the children from Persia arrived, in [unclear], I was very, very busy with that. Do you want to hear about other things?

1:00:06 Speaker 6 Whatever you feel like. No, no, no.

1:00:07 Speaker 2 No, no, no.

1:00:07 Speaker 6 I was just steering the conversation; I didn’t—

1:00:08 Speaker 2 You’ve got me going now. So let’s start with the situation with the Persian children. I remember before Pesach... We bochurim ate there. Their Seder was held where the crowd now spills out, and there was a kitchen there. Before that, the bochurim had eaten there for several years. So the kitchen was there. Before Pesach we received instructions: the Rebbe had told Rabbi Hecht—Yankel Hecht received the instruction—to make sure they got all the food according to their custom. What was their custom? Persians eat rice on Pesach. Not kitniyos, but rice, yes. So they cooked rice. There was a cook, or partly... I don’t remember exactly. No, it was the older boys among them themselves. I was there when the Rebbe came—

1:01:12 Speaker 6 To visit.

1:01:12 Speaker 2 To visit.

1:01:13 Speaker 6 He went into the kitchen.

1:01:15 Speaker 2 The Rebbe always did, at all the Seders. The Rebbe went into the kitchen for the bochurim too. Right. Yes, yes, that happened. The Rebbe went into the kitchen. I was standing in a kind of corridor, and you could look into the kitchen from there. The Rebbe went in. There were pots—

1:01:39 Speaker 6 Big pots.

1:01:40 Speaker 2 Huge pots of rice. And I remember how the Rebbe went over and looked into the... It was almost as if the Rebbe were checking that everything was all right.

1:01:57 Speaker 6 They say the Rebbe moved his head but didn’t bend down.

1:02:00 Speaker 2 I don’t think so. I don’t believe I saw anything like that. I remember that he—

1:02:07 Speaker 6 Looked.

1:02:08 Speaker 2 Looked, and it was huge. He managed to see.

1:02:12 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

1:02:13 Speaker 2 It didn’t work like that. It wasn’t a pot he looked into. At the yeshivah on Forty-Forty, the flame was—

1:02:21 Speaker 6 The flame was low.

1:02:21 Speaker 2 Low. That was it. Then I had an experience. I don’t know... If we start telling these stories, we’ll never finish. I had an experience on Erev Yom Kippur. That one was personal. The whole... It was chaotic. The whole situation with the Persian children really was chaotic and disorganized. The only organized thing was the camp they made for them. In the summer they bought a property, and the children had a camp outside the city for a few months. Things were organized there. And I was—

1:03:04 Speaker 6 In charge.

1:03:04 Speaker 2 What do you call it? The director, the head counselor.

1:03:07 Speaker 6 Yes.

1:03:10 Speaker 2 So when the end of summer came, we saw that going back to Crown Heights wouldn’t work. Tishrei would be even more difficult. Better not to. We would stay there until afterward. Of course, Simchas Torah was another matter. Until Hoshana Rabbah.

1:03:30 Speaker 6 There’s a limit to how much you’re willing to give up.

1:03:32 Speaker 2 We stayed there until Hoshana Rabbah.

1:03:34 Speaker 6 With them.

1:03:34 Speaker 2 With them.

1:03:35 Speaker 6 So they wouldn’t get lost in the chaos.

1:03:36 Speaker 2 No, and also so they... Yes, I was there for Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. On Erev Yom Kippur, the Rebbe gives out lekach. The Rebbe distributes lekach. I thought to myself—we were several bochurim thinking about it—listen, it isn’t fair that they won’t receive lekach from the Rebbe. Taking everyone to New York on buses was out of the question. The whole idea simply didn’t exist. But what could we do? We decided to hold a lottery. One person would win the right to travel to New York.

1:04:19 Speaker 6 To bring back lekach from the Rebbe for everyone.

1:04:21 Speaker 2 Yes. I won the lottery. I was going to 770. I thought to myself: this was 5740, Erev Yom Kippur 5740, two years after 5738. At the time, the prevailing feeling was that people should approach the Rebbe less often. There were times when the Rebbe wasn’t pleased with that, though there were also times when he was. And we were sharp young bochurim. I wasn’t going to approach him whenever I had the chance. I don’t remember whether I had ever gone up to receive lekach. Someone else could take it, someone else could. What would the Rebbe mind if someone from the community took it? It wouldn’t be a problem at all. But now I had won the lottery. I had to approach the Rebbe. My mind just couldn’t grasp it. No. It couldn’t be. Then I had an idea.

1:05:29 Speaker 6 I mean, it’s hard for us to understand—

1:05:31 Speaker 2 I wasn’t ready. Under no circumstances was I ready.

1:05:35 Speaker 6 I just want to put this into words, as they say. Since you’d been there from 5737, there were only a handful of times you’d ever approached the Rebbe—or perhaps you’d never approached him at all up to then—

1:05:44 Speaker 2 No.

1:05:45 Speaker 6 And it wasn’t as though—

1:05:46 Speaker 2 You didn’t approach him. I picked up the phone. Of course, there were no cell phones yet. I called Rabbi Hecht—J. J. Hecht, who was our director. I asked him, “Are you going?”

1:06:04 Speaker 6 To get lekach.

1:06:05 Speaker 2 “Of course.” I said to him, “You know what? I happen to be in town. When you go up, you should ask for some for the children.”

1:06:19 Speaker 6 The children from Iran.

1:06:20 Speaker 2 The Per—oh, the children from Iran. “And I’m going back for Yom Kippur, so I’ll take it with me.” That’s what I told him. He was enthusiastic. “Oh, thank you so much for reminding me. What a good idea. Yes, I’m definitely coming.” “Okay, what time are you coming?” He said, “At twelve.” “Fine, I’ll wait for you by the exit at 770.” So I stood there. Twelve o’clock came. Then twelve-ten, and it was almost twelve-thirty. The line ended; it had been a relatively short line. I could see the very last people going through. Where was Yankel Hecht? I had no phone. I was standing beside the secretary, Rabbi Binyamin Klein. He knew me and asked, “What are you standing here for?” I told him, “I’m waiting for Yankel Hecht to bring me lekach.” He saw that the line was over and said, “Go up yourself.” “Are you crazy? How can I go up?” He practically pushed me forward. I went up, asked for lekach for the children from Iran, and left. I traveled to the camp. When we arrived, we distributed the lekach, made a few more batches, and gave it out to everyone. Everyone was happy. Just before Yom Tov, Levi Hecht, J. J.’s son, was there with me. He called his father. We were sitting in the office at [unclear]. Suddenly, sitting beside him, I heard shouting. His father was shouting and shouting: “Where is that Katzman?” “What happened?” “He embarrassed me so badly today.” His son asked, “What happened?” He said, “We agreed that I’d go to the Rebbe to ask for lekach for the children. I went up and asked. The Rebbe said to me, ‘Katzman has already taken it.’”

1:08:43 Speaker 7 “Katzman—Katzman already took it.” I’m translating from—

1:08:45 Speaker 2 Yes. We can stop here. That’s enough.

1:08:49 Speaker 7 Yes.

1:08:50 Speaker 2 Erev Yom Kippur. The Rebbe is thinking about it. That’s the point. Who took it? For whom did he take it? What difference would it make to give another piece? It just shows you, first of all, how every detail with the Rebbe was considered, and how every detail mattered. These are lofty things, things in the heavens. That was it for me. If I’d had another opportunity in my life—and it was the same Yom Kippur... But when we asked him what had happened, he told us. His son asked him, “But when did you get the lekach?” He said, “At one-thirty or two.” So his son said, “But you agreed on twelve, didn’t you?” “Twelve, twelve—what difference does it make what time we agreed on?” But the Rebbe had stopped. That’s right, I arrived at one-thirty and there was no lekach left. I insisted: I’m getting lekach; I’m not moving. I stood by the Rebbe’s door and waited. At around two, the Rebbe opened the door and asked, “Is there anyone who hasn’t received any yet?”

1:10:11 Speaker 7 Who hadn’t received lekach yet.

1:10:14 Speaker 2 So I was there. I took lekach and made my request. The Rebbe said to me, “Katzman has already taken it.” These are the kinds of things that are astonishing. Astonishing. All right, tell me 5743, tell me 5740—and who was I, anyway? Just another bochur. These were things that... Then the next stage was Tzivos Hashem, when the Rebbe began Tzivos Hashem on Sukkos.

1:10:49 Speaker 7 In 5741.

1:10:50 Speaker 2 In 5741. I was on the team that came up with all sorts of ideas and projects. There was a great deal of back-and-forth with the Rebbe then, too, but not through me. After he was appointed—

1:11:12 Speaker 7 [unclear]

1:11:12 Speaker 2 Rabbi Binyaminson[?], then it went through him. I think he, too, went through—

1:11:18 Speaker 7 Tzach?

1:11:18 Speaker 2 Rabbi Dovid. Yes. But certainly at the beginning, everything went through Rabbi Dovid. I remember things I worked on, bringing changes to all sorts of things. My department was the toys, or the little items—the tchotchkes.

1:11:41 Speaker 7 Prizes for the children.

1:11:42 Speaker 2 Prizes, and the badges too. I was always involved in those things, and we had to think about asking whether the Rebbe approved or not.

1:11:50 Speaker 7 Oh, the Tzivos Hashem badges, the hats.

1:11:52 Speaker 2 Come, I’ll show you something. There’s a pushka there.

1:11:57 Speaker 7 A blue tzedakah box.

1:11:59 Speaker 2 This is the pushka. If you look, it has a—

1:12:06 Speaker 7 A paper covering.

1:12:07 Speaker 2 A paper covering. It’s a pushka belonging to the Chabad community. At the time, Tzivos Hashem was in the same building—

1:12:16 Speaker 7 As the Chabad community.

1:12:17 Speaker 2 We shared space with the Chabad community, and I had an idea to make a pushka for children: a big pushka, with children climbing ladders to put money in. That was my idea. I went to a designer. There was back-and-forth, over and over. I didn’t even have a way to send the Rebbe a sample. So I took one of the Chabad community’s pushkas and wrapped the design around it. That was the first sample. It went in to the Rebbe. Luckily for me, the Rebbe sent it back out, and I got it back.

1:13:06 Speaker 7 That’s the box that was in the Rebbe’s room.

1:13:08 Speaker 2 The one that had been with the Rebbe. The one that looked like this was [unclear], and a thief broke it open and took out the money. Things like that happened. There were a few things. I don’t know whether I sent this one through Rabbi Dovid as well. Rabbi Dovid.

1:13:26 Speaker 7 He returned it to you.

1:13:27 Speaker 2 He gave me the sample. So I have it. I have a few things like that from all those years. That was part of our work. Then the Sefer Torah project began, and—

1:13:46 Speaker 7 More things for children, and things for adults.

1:13:48 Speaker 2 Yes, but it’s interesting that the Rebbe didn’t want Tzivos Hashem to be run—

1:13:53 Speaker 7 It would be—

1:13:54 Speaker 2 It was separate, an entirely separate department. But the Tzivos Hashem gatherings began to be held regularly. Another thing I worked on was what they call public relations, publicity. Today there’s the internet. Back then, if you wanted someone to hear about something, you had to get lists of all the newspapers, make copies, put them in envelopes and mail them. If anyone at a newspaper picked it up, it felt like a gift from heaven.

1:14:42 Speaker 7 What’s amazing is that the Rebbe was involved even with every announcement and every item of publicity. It would reach him, and there would be edits down to the details. Maybe not every last detail, but it mattered to him.

1:14:54 Speaker 2 Nothing—

1:14:55 Speaker 7 There wasn’t anything—

1:14:56 Speaker 2 No.

1:14:57 Speaker 7 Nothing was simply released.

1:14:58 Speaker 2 No, but there was a procedure. For example, Rabbi Yehuda Krinsky and Rabbi Nissan Mindel had to review things. If they approved them, that was accepted. That began early on, around the end of 5734 or 5735, when things started, because there wasn’t much material then. At first, there really wasn’t. The Rebbe said there wasn’t time to go over every single thing. For example, once the Rebbe said there wasn’t time on Chanukah to hold a separate Tzivos Hashem rally and a special gathering for the elderly, Tiferes Zekeinim. So that was probably in 5745. Perhaps 5745.

1:15:53 Speaker 7 So they held them together?

1:15:55 Speaker 2 Yes. The Rebbe suggested holding them together.

1:15:58 Speaker 7 But in later years they were separate.

1:16:00 Speaker 2 There was a rally—I was already involved by Chanukah. Yes, I thought it was a good idea and sent something out. The New York Times, no less. The New York Times.

1:16:28 Speaker 7 They ran a story about it?

1:16:29 Speaker 2 They didn’t write a story. They called and said they wanted to photograph the event. Now, photograph the event—who was I to refuse? Of course, I went to Rabbi Yudel. I think Rabbi Yudel asked the Rebbe, because the photographer was on the stage with the Rebbe and actually took pictures. They put it on the front page—not the international section, but the New York section.

1:17:03 Speaker 7 They made it the cover page of the New York section.

1:17:05 Speaker 2 It was the cover page of the section, about half a page with a photograph. Those were things that...

1:17:14 Speaker 7 There is so, so much more to hear from you, and we’re already getting close to Shabbos Kodesh.

1:17:18 Speaker 2 I want to finish with one thing. Maybe I should have opened with it, or brought it up somewhere in the middle. You mentioned in passing that Rabbi Mindel’s yahrzeit is on 4 Tammuz. I want to share an experience I had with Rabbi Mindel on 4 Tammuz 5754. We were all broken, crushed, stunned. We didn’t know what to do. We couldn’t even talk to one another. I remember coming back from the Ohel. I had gone on the fourth. What happened there isn’t relevant now. I came home to Montgomery Street, and from a distance I saw Rabbi Mindel, with his grandson supporting him.

1:18:33 Speaker 7 When he arrived from Eretz Yisroel.

1:18:34 Speaker 2 He had arrived, yes. I ran and ran. Oh, maybe Rabbi Mindel would say something. I ran up to him. Rabbi Mindel was very approachable and friendly. He knew me, and I felt very comfortable with him.

1:18:55 Speaker 7 He knew generations of your family.

1:18:56 Speaker 2 Yes, and he was like that with everyone. I wasn’t special, but I felt very comfortable approaching him. So I went up to him. I looked at him, and he looked at me. We looked at each other. What could I say? I had to ask something. We stood there for about half a minute, and then he took hold of my beard and studied me for a moment. Then he raised his hands, looked at me and said, “Ah! Es vet noch zayn a vos tzu farbrengen.” There will still be something to farbreng about. I was stunned. That was what was on my mind then—whether to farbreng or not. Those were the last words I heard from him. It was like his parting message to me. The following year, on 4 Tammuz, he passed away. Today we see [unclear]. Without farbrengens, without coming together, without [unclear], we have nothing.

1:20:19 Speaker 7 This podcast is part of the farbrengen. I can tell you that—

1:20:21 Speaker 2 Exactly.

1:20:22 Speaker 7 Now, around Gimmel Tammuz, I’ve had the chance to see Jews from all over the world, bli ayin hara. Jews are listening and living with the Rebbe, and their connection to the Rebbe is being renewed. I’m sure that very soon this will strengthen—

1:20:35 Speaker 2 L’chaim, l’chaim, that—

1:20:36 Speaker 7 L’chaim. That it will bring us even closer to the Rebbe, and we will see the Rebbe again. I’m holding on to—

1:20:41 Speaker 2 That on the Shabbos near Gimmel Tammuz, we’ll hear the Rebbe’s farbrengen. L’chaim.

1:20:45 Speaker 7 Amen, l’chaim. A guten Erev Shabbos, and Moshiach now.

1:20:49 Speaker 2 Amen.

1:20:53 Speaker 8 Thank you very much to Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Katzman for the stories, for the life in them, for the renewed inspiration to connect to the Rebbe, and for the expression of vitality and joy. May Hashem help us truly strengthen our connection to the Rebbe. “In the light of the King’s countenance is life”—may we all merit the complete Geulah and see the Rebbe return, the King in His beauty, immediately. As mentioned, this episode was dedicated in honor of the Rebbe’s shluchim—more than fifty shluchim, may their numbers increase, in the city of Netanya. These days they are raising funds for their year-round activities. May they have great success in their campaign and in their work preparing the city and the entire world to greet our righteous Moshiach. May more and more Jews become chassidim connected to the Rebbe, bring the Rebbe nachas, observe more Torah and mitzvos, and bring the Geulah very soon.