Lehisraanen Episode 14: Rabbi Yosef Yitzchok Liberov (Kfar Chabad B)

00:00 Speaker 1 Shalom aleichem. Welcome to another episode of the Lehitraanen podcast, where chassidim share their experiences and their lives with the Rebbe at 770, our home. Together, we refresh our spirit of hiskashrus and gain strength and encouragement for our daily work: preparing ourselves and the entire world to greet Moshiach, when we will soon be reunited with the Rebbe. This week we’ll sit down for a farbrengen and draw strength and fresh inspiration from the chossid Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Lieberow, one of the Rebbe’s shluchim in the Holy Land. He’ll tell us about his years at 770 in the seventies, and about a special yechidus he had as a child in 5726, even before that. And, of course, about the shlichus he received to travel to the Holy Land in 5758. This podcast episode is dedicated by one of the Rebbe’s shluchim in Europe, in the merit of his family and for the success of all the Rebbe’s shluchim in their mission to prepare the world for the coming of Moshiach Tzidkeinu. Rabbi Yosef Lieberow, hello and welcome. Shalom aleichem.

01:14 Speaker 2 Aleichem shalom.

01:15 Speaker 1 I’ll start by asking you what I ask everyone: Where are you from? Though in your case the question is a bit, uh, strange. But tell us a little—when did you arrive, how, and from where?

01:27 Speaker 2 Where did I come from? Well, uh, how many generations back do you want me to go?

01:33 Speaker 1 Reb Mordechai [?], the Alter Rebbe’s brother.

01:35 Speaker 2 Reb Mordechai [?], the Alter Rebbe’s brother. You’d have to ask my children about that, because they’re his descendants. Yes, so I was born in London, and when I reached yeshivah age there was still no Tomchei Temimim in England. The closest one was in Brunoy, with Rabbi Nissan, and I went there after my bar mitzvah. My bar mitzvah was in Nissan 5728, and the practice in England was that boys would leave for yeshivah at the start of the next term after their bar mitzvah. If a boy’s bar mitzvah was in the winter, he’d go for the term beginning on Rosh Chodesh Iyar; if it was in the summer, he’d go for the term beginning on Rosh Chodesh Cheshvan. Since mine was in Nissan, the plan was for me to go on Rosh Chodesh Iyar. Before my bar mitzvah, I had been to the Rebbe and had a yechidus with my mother.

02:31 Speaker 1 Was that your first time?

02:32 Speaker 2 No. That was already the second time.

02:33 Speaker 1 Hold on, let’s go back to the first time.

02:36 Speaker 2 Anyway, during that yechidus, my mother told the Rebbe that the plan was for me to go to yeshivah in Brunoy after Pesach. The Rebbe immediately said, “It’s not a suitable time to go to yeshivah.” The Rebbe explained that the vacation period was beginning. “It’s home vacation”—those were the words the Rebbe used, “it’s home vacation”—so the time would go to waste, and it would be better to wait until after the Yomim Tovim. This was actually very surprising. When we came out of yechidus, we thought: Everyone goes then. Everyone whose bar mitzvah is in the winter goes on Rosh Chodesh Iyar, and suddenly the Rebbe says not to go because of “vacation.” But in Brunoy, there was no such thing as vacation. The term began on Rosh Chodesh Cheshvan, ended on Erev Rosh Chodesh Nissan, or maybe a few days after Rosh Chodesh Nissan, and began again on Rosh Chodesh Iyar.

03:24 Speaker 1 With Rabbi Nissan, that was after 2 Nissan.

03:26 Speaker 2 Huh?

03:27 Speaker 1 I mean, with Rabbi Nissan it was after 2 Nissan.

03:29 Speaker 2 No, no, actually not. Actually not. I suppose it depended on which days of the week the dates fell. And the term ran from Rosh Chodesh Iyar until Erev Yom Kippur. If some wanted to travel to the Rebbe for Tishrei—which was rare then—they received permission to leave before Rosh Hashanah. But the yeshivah term officially ended on Erev Yom Kippur. And here the Rebbe brings up vacation. It was surprising. But sometimes everything becomes clear. It’s really a question of near or far.

04:01 Speaker 1 Near or far.

04:02 Speaker 2 Near or far, yes. That year, 5729—sorry, 5728, nineteen sixty-eight, if we’re going to tell the story—a major strike broke out in France. It was against de Gaulle, for anyone who remembers or knows about that.

04:18 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

04:18 Speaker 2 So a very big strike broke out. The whole country was completely shut down. No telephones, no mail. Uh, it was one big mess. And what became clear was that, as a thirteen-year-old leaving home and going far away, I would have spent half a year away with no contact at all: no telephone calls, no letters. We also relied on packages sent from home, which helped, and suddenly I would have had none of that. So the time would indeed have gone to waste. That’s what the Rebbe meant: the country was going on “vacation.” That’s how we understood it, and so—

04:58 Speaker 1 One thing you said—

04:59 Speaker 2 That’s how we explained it. So that’s how [unclear]. That was the beginning of my time in Tomchei Temimim.

05:05 Speaker 1 Now I’d like to go back a little. Do you remember when your grandfather, Reb Mendel, left Russia?

05:09 Speaker 2 Of course. That was—

05:10 Speaker 1 So tell us a little about your childhood.

05:12 Speaker 2 So—

05:12 Speaker 1 About, let’s say, what—

05:13 Speaker 2 My childhood? I was eighteen—

05:16 Speaker 1 Your mother was Reb Mendel’s daughter, and your father was the son of Reb [unclear] Yaakov.

05:20 Speaker 2 Yes. So even as a little boy, I knew that I had a grandfather who was in prison. Actually, he was no longer in prison when I was born; he was released a month after I was born. But that was the situation: my grandmother was here and my grandfather was there. I knew it, and you could feel it. We always prayed that he would come, because as little children we wanted our grandfather. Later, as we grew older, we understood just how—

05:47 Speaker 1 There was no contact at all? Letters, anything?

05:49 Speaker 2 There was, yes. What I remember is that letters would arrive from time to time. Even a photograph of him arrived—I remember that. But we knew that Russia wouldn’t let him go, wouldn’t release him, wouldn’t allow him to leave. Then one day, I remember, I was supposed to leave home for cheder, and suddenly my mother said, “They’re saying we should go up to Grandmother’s room.” Grandmother lived with us. We went to listen to the radio, where they were going to announce that Grandfather was leaving Russia. What happened—the story is well known—

06:19 Speaker 1 On this podcast, nothing is well known. We tell everything.

06:21 Speaker 2 The person who ultimately secured his release from Russia was the leader of the opposition in Britain at the time. His name was Harold Wilson. It happened through a Jew named Elchanan Leif [?], who was one of the leaders of Agudas Yisroel, and another Jew whose first name I don’t know. His surname was Springer. He had very strong connections, and they worked on it. I mean, they—

06:46 Speaker 1 Were people working to get Reb Mendel out?

06:49 Speaker 2 What happened was that they kept trying to arrange family reunification. That is, to get him out through a request from England, from France, or from Israel. My mother even went to Israel in 5708 to try to submit one, but every time they sent in a request—

07:11 Speaker 1 It was rejected.

07:11 Speaker 2 They would always throw it out. They always asked the Rebbe whether to pursue it, and the Rebbe gave a brachah, but the answer was always no. Then this Jew—I think his name was Elchanan Leif [?]—met my grandmother once, and my mother went along too. He asked, “What’s happening?” They said, “There’s no news.” So they went their separate ways. He went one way and they went another. Suddenly he called them back: an idea had occurred to him. The leader of the opposition in Britain was due to travel to Russia soon to meet Khrushchev. Khrushchev wanted a favor from Britain—that was the reason for the meeting. So, since Khrushchev needed something, they could ask him—

07:55 Speaker 1 There was a chance.

07:55 Speaker 2 To use the opportunity to ask him to ask Khrushchev to release a Jew who had family in England. Fine. So they asked the Rebbe, and the Rebbe gave his consent, and then we received the answer: yes. So this man, this Jew named Springer, requested a meeting with him and got one for Friday. This was fairly early in the winter—a meeting with Harold Wilson, the leader of the opposition. He got the appointment for Friday afternoon, about an hour before candle-lighting, in the city. He realized the meeting might run late, and even if it ended on time, it would already be Shabbos and he would have to walk back. So he dressed in his Shabbos clothes and came to the meeting that way. Wilson promised him he would take care of it. And indeed, he went to Russia and made a request for another four or five families to be reunited with their families in England, and Khrushchev promised him. That was how things were in Russia then—it wasn’t so simple. But in fact, he got it, boruch Hashem. I mean, it was announced on the radio, I would say, about three weeks or a month before he arrived, fairly early in Cheshvan, that he was going to leave. He had received permission to leave Russia. So that was when I first learned he was coming. Then, on the day he arrived, a telegram came saying he was arriving that very day, because until then we didn’t know exactly—

09:22 Speaker 3 When he would arrive.

09:23 Speaker 2 Because communication wasn’t quite, uh, like it was in later years, or like it is today. Yes, so that’s in answer to your question about whether I remember him arriving from Russia. Yes, I remember very well that he arrived from Russia. And one of the things that surprised him, when he saw me at eight and a half, was that I still hadn’t been to the Rebbe.

09:43 Speaker 3 That’s what he asked?

09:44 Speaker 2 Yes. He didn’t ask me. He asked my mother, my parents. After all, within a year—

09:50 Speaker 3 So when did you go?

09:52 Speaker 2 About a year and a half later, I went for Tishrei. That was [unclear]—

09:56 Speaker 3 Chabad. He went with Chabad, right?

09:58 Speaker 2 He went first. Two weeks after he arrived, on 19 Kislev, [unclear], he was already with the Rebbe.

10:04 Speaker 3 When he came back, what did he tell you? Do you remember?

10:06 Speaker 2 What did he tell us when he came back? That part I don’t remember. But there was a farbrengen on the first Shabbos after he arrived. People who weren’t from Chabad came too, [unclear]. Just seeing a Jew who had come out of Russia in those years was seeing something beyond nature. Afterward, he stayed with the Rebbe until around 19 Shvat, or a little after 19 Shvat, and then he returned. So again there was a very large farbrengen at home. At that first farbrengen, he had already managed to demand to know why there wasn’t a cheder here run entirely according to Torah. That was on the first Shabbos after—

10:45 Speaker 3 After he left Russia, or after he came back?

10:46 Speaker 2 After he left Russia. No—

10:47 Speaker 3 After he left Russia, already.

10:48 Speaker 2 That was at the Shabbos kiddush. Then he set his sights on one of his friends, one of the elder chassidim, who was also somewhat of a businessman, and demanded that he contribute a sum of money so they could open the cheder. I don’t remember it myself; I only heard the story afterward. And then, when he came back, he spoke to him—

11:11 Speaker 3 When he came back from the Rebbe.

11:12 Speaker 2 When he came back from the Rebbe. “Now we need to take actual steps, so what’s going to happen?” By then the man had already had a lechaim, and he asked him—

12:07 Speaker 3 [unclear] yechidus?

12:08 Speaker 2 Yes.

12:09 Speaker 3 There was.

12:10 Speaker 2 The Rebbe tested me.

12:12 Speaker 3 On what?

12:12 Speaker 2 On what I was learning then—the avos nezikin, the primary categories of damages. The Rebbe asked me questions about them: What is an ox? What is a pit? What is... The last question was, what is a pit? So I answered—I answered all the questions. I was very nervous about whether I’d manage to answer them all, but I said that a pit is when someone digs a pit and an animal walks along and falls into it. That’s the av nezikin. Then the Rebbe asked me—

12:48 Speaker 3 Even if there’s a pit, you mean.

13:09 Speaker 2 That if there’s a pit, you need to know to be careful.

13:12 Speaker 3 At your first yechidus, after all.

13:14 Speaker 2 Yes, right.

13:16 Speaker 3 What else do you remember from that Tishrei?

13:18 Speaker 2 I remember the farbrengens, I remember the cup, I remember—

13:24 Speaker 3 Was your grandfather near the Rebbe at the cup?

13:26 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, the Rebbe—yes.

13:27 Speaker 3 And you didn’t go up with him.

13:28 Speaker 2 No, no. No. I stood near his brother, near my uncle—

13:33 Speaker 3 [unclear].

13:33 Speaker 2 Mendel, yes. I stood beside him. That was behind the Rebbe, throughout the davening. I remember it—I mean, nobody told me about it. It came as a surprise to me when, suddenly, in the middle of Napoleon’s March at the end of Yom Kippur, the Rebbe suddenly—

13:55 Speaker 3 A lot of people describe it. I did merit to see the March, but afterward I was on the steps. What was it really like? I never saw it from there. What was that jump like?

14:04 Speaker 2 [unclear]—I mean, in the middle of the niggun, you know, it looked like... To me, it was like this: suddenly the Rebbe turned around. I’d thought it would be like all the other niggunim on Yom Kippur, when the Rebbe would motion with his hand and so on. Suddenly the Rebbe turned around, and I was standing at a distance of, I’d say, from here to that wall. That was the distance, and I—

14:27 Speaker 3 A meter or two, no more.

14:29 Speaker 2 No, maybe a little more—four meters. What’s happening here? And suddenly the Rebbe took the chair and put it beside the wall.

14:36 Speaker 3 The Rebbe moved the chair himself?

14:37 Speaker 2 The Rebbe himself moved the chair, put it by the wall, and gave this sort of—

14:43 Speaker 3 Jump.

14:43 Speaker 2 Jump. Yes. I mean, he placed his foot on it and lifted himself up onto the chair. For me, that was one of the—really, it was the highlight of that Tishrei. Later I saw the cup. I wanted to make a bracha over the Rebbe’s cup, and they told me, “Only ‘simana tava,’” because I was a child before bar mitzvah. That was the first time.

15:05 Speaker 3 Had you been to see your grandfather, Rabbi Saadia, before Brunoy?

15:09 Speaker 2 Yes.

15:09 Speaker 3 Where was he then?

15:10 Speaker 2 He was in Morocco.

15:11 Speaker 3 So in 1950 he was in Morocco?

15:13 Speaker 2 In 1950, yes. I remember when he came. Apparently it was still during the [unclear] period. He came to London to visit us a few times. He moved to Belgium in the winter. The winter of ’53? The winter of ’54?

15:26 Speaker 3 Ah, I remembered that in 1950 he was in Belgium. But before that.

15:29 Speaker 2 But I didn’t travel to him. He would travel to us. Apparently, a few times when he traveled to the Rebbe, he stopped in London on the way.

15:37 Speaker 3 Rabbi Saadia had a different style, perhaps a more Jewish one.

15:40 Speaker 2 Uh, how should I put it? How would I define it? More, more emphasis on being a baal habos.

15:53 Speaker 3 Yes.

15:53 Speaker 2 Not that my grandfather Rabbi Saadia wasn’t a baal habos, but there, there was a stronger hiskashrus to the Rebbe. I’m saying that one of the things—perhaps I’m jumping ahead—

16:05 Speaker 3 That’s fine.

16:05 Speaker 2 Year by year. When the Rebbe sent the shluchim to Israel—think about why the Rebbe sent shluchim to Israel. The Rebbe sends shluchim to Texas, to California; that’s understandable. But what was there in Israel? What was lacking there that the Rebbe needed to send shluchim? So, apparently, the Rebbe said... At that time, after the first shluchim traveled in 5746, the Rebbe began speaking about matters of Moshiach, which aren’t something specific to Chabad. And of course, since this was a new campaign, there were people who didn’t know exactly how to spread it among [unclear], and so on. So they started asking the Rebbe questions, and the Rebbe said, “Why are you asking questions? You have the shluchim there. They were here; they know what it looks like. Ask them, and they’ll tell you what it looks like.” In other words, the Rebbe—

16:58 Speaker 3 Just a way of defining it.

16:59 Speaker 2 The Rebbe wanted to bring 770 here. That, essentially, was the [unclear]: to bring 770 here. That was how he saw it. Why did the Rebbe send him to Israel? Work it out for yourself.

17:10 Speaker 3 No, no, a little history now. Did Rabbi Saadia himself come from a Lubavitch family? Where did the name Saadia come from in the first place?

17:16 Speaker 2 It was in the family. My uncle told me that his father was called Tzvi Hirsch, his father was called Saadia, and his father was called Tzvi Hirsch. It went back several generations. So there were two brothers, him and his brother Hillel, who later became [unclear], and the Rebbe didn’t allow him to leave because he belonged there.

17:38 Speaker 3 He belonged there—belonged to Chabad, yes.

17:39 Speaker 2 He’s buried there in the Lubavitch cemetery. And they were two brothers whose father sent them to Tomchei Temimim because they were orphans. That is, their mother passed away when they were young, and their father remarried. That’s how I understood it. I don’t know; for some reason, people didn’t talk about or tell us all those details. So I’ve heard bits and pieces here and there. But since I only started taking an interest when I was older, I’m not so familiar with the details. Anyway, that’s why they both came to Tomchei Temimim. They have family—there were relatives here in Israel. I was once in touch with someone in Karmiel whom I met, not from his family but from my grandmother’s family. My grandmother was from the Edelman family.

18:29 Speaker 3 The well-known Edelmans?

18:31 Speaker 2 The well-known Edelmans. Shoval[?] Edelman—his father was my grandmother’s brother.

18:37 Speaker 3 And was Rabbi Saadia himself with the Rebbe during your years there?

18:40 Speaker 2 Was he with the Rebbe? Yes, he—

18:41 Speaker 3 He traveled there every time.

18:42 Speaker 2 Yes, of course he traveled. The first time he traveled to the Rebbe was in 5714, in ’14. I mean, I don’t know whether it was ’17 or ’18, but afterward he was with the Rebbe several times. I remember 5720, 5723—that was, I think it was 5723. Yes, he used to travel, that’s...

19:09 Speaker 3 All right, let’s get back to that. You arrived in Brunoy in the winter of ’50.

19:13 Speaker 2 I arrived in the winter of ’50, yes.

19:15 Speaker 3 And when did you travel to the Rebbe?

19:18 Speaker 2 Then I traveled to the Rebbe in 5731, after a year and a half—well, a year, almost two years after I’d been in the yeshiva. And by 5731 I’d already made up my mind that the following year I wanted to go study there, to leave Brunoy.

19:37 Speaker 3 So in 5731 you were there, and you thought you’d travel later on.

19:40 Speaker 2 No, in 5731 I traveled for Tishrei.

19:42 Speaker 3 Yes, and then I said—

19:42 Speaker 2 During 5731 already—perhaps even earlier, because there were a lot of American bochurim, and they start drawing you in, farbrengens and all that, so you want to be part of it too. But for me, I’d already decided by Pesach. I told my mother that I wanted to go the following year. So she said, “Here in Brunoy you’re close to home, and over there, who knows for how long?” I said, “That’s it—home is over there.”

20:07 Speaker 3 Did you go in for yechidus in 5731?

20:09 Speaker 2 Yes, yes.

20:10 Speaker 3 What happened?

20:12 Speaker 2 Well, in 5731, besides the yechidus—just the yechidus, I mean, [unclear]. I had this situation where I asked the Rebbe for a tikkun concerning my tefillin. It had only come to light in ’34[?], two and a half years after my bar mitzvah, that my hand tefillin had been invalid from the outset: the Divine Name was missing. So I told the Rebbe about it—I wrote it to the Rebbe—and the Rebbe gave me a tikkun. The tikkun was to be thoroughly familiar with the relevant laws of tefillin in the Alter Rebbe’s Shulchan Aruch. And the Rebbe stressed: the laws relevant to someone who puts on tefillin, not to someone who writes them.

20:53 Speaker 3 Meaning, not the laws of—

20:54 Speaker 2 Not the laws concerning the writing of tefillin. And two or three maamarim about tefillin from Likkutei Torah, Siddur, or Derech Mitzvosecha. That’s what the Rebbe answered me.

21:07 Speaker 3 Likkutei Torah, the Alter Rebbe’s Siddur?

21:10 Speaker 2 Likkutei Torah, Siddur, and Derech Mitzvosecha.

21:12 Speaker 3 So did you take a maamar from each one?

21:14 Speaker 2 I think, if I remember correctly, it was from all of them—from the Siddur.

21:19 Speaker 3 Who guided you?

21:20 Speaker 2 Who guided me? I studied it with Rabbi Yosef Yitzchak Kalpakovitch. He learned it with me. He was one of the older bochurim in Brunoy at the time. So—

21:32 Speaker 3 What else do you remember from that Tishrei?

21:34 Speaker 2 What else do I remember from that Tishrei? It was the famous Tishrei with the baalei batim whom the Rebbe appointed. That was on Sukkos.

21:49 Speaker 3 And before that, there was the Elul[?] of [unclear] and Sukkos.

21:52 Speaker 2 That was Elul of ’34. It was also the year the Rebbe stopped farbrenging in the sukkah. We bochurim had to keep the yeshiva schedule until Yom Kippur. I mean, we arrived before Tishrei and kept the yeshiva schedule through Yom Kippur. And a rumor began to spread in France, in the yeshiva, that the Rebbe didn’t want to farbreng in the sukkah anymore, because of something that had happened the year before—

22:14 Speaker 3 Right, in ’34 someone fell.

22:16 Speaker 2 Yes, Merlow, and it was really dangerous. Merlow was in a cast for half a year. That was Rabbi Merlow.

22:21 Speaker 3 Rabbi Merlow.

22:22 Speaker 2 So that was the situation when the news came out.

22:28 Speaker 3 You’d already known beforehand, back in Brunoy, that—

22:31 Speaker 2 No, no, not in Brunoy. I mean from France, from the yeshiva.

22:32 Speaker 3 Oh. When did you arrive at the Rebbe?

22:33 Speaker 2 Yes, we arrived for Selichos.

22:35 Speaker 3 Oh, right.

22:35 Speaker 2 We arrived in the middle of Selichos.

22:37 Speaker 3 Mm-hm.

22:38 Speaker 2 Then everyone began talking about what would happen and how it would work. I think it was after Yom Kippur, when it had become clear. So Zalman Gurary—Rabbi Zalman Gurary, who was on the organizing committee—gathered rabbis and guests from among the elder chassidim to ask the Rebbe to farbreng in the sukkah after all. Everyone was offering suggestions about what could be done.

23:10 Speaker 3 How to reverse the decree.

23:10 Speaker 2 Some suggested telling the Rebbe that the bochurim wouldn’t come into the farbrengen, that it would be only for the guests and the elder chassidim. I remember a man there, Eli Lis, who heard that suggestion and shouted at the bochurim, “How dare you suggest that to the Rebbe? The Rebbe would never do such a thing. That the bochurim shouldn’t be at the farbrengen—that’s all we need!” That was how he put it. Anyway, they approached the Rebbe in Gan Eden Hatachton after Minchah. Some people were downstairs, beneath Gan Eden Hatachton—there used to be a sink there; it’s been closed off now—and suddenly they heard shouting. Then they realized it was the Rebbe’s voice. The Rebbe was saying, “What’s going on? Where’s the organizing committee? Nobody’s taking care of things. Bochurim arrive, and they have nothing to eat to prepare for Yom Kippur.” So yes, it really was after Yom Kippur, because the Rebbe mentioned that they hadn’t had an adequate meal and nobody was looking after them. The Rebbe’s words were very sharp. The Rebbe also said then that he was prepared to walk up to ten minutes from 770 to a place where a sukkah could be built without any danger. But that wasn’t feasible.

24:15 Speaker 2 Feasible. I mean, the Rebbe had farbrenged in halls before. He’d left 770, but there was no place within a ten-minute walk of 770 where it could be done. They tried to find one. I don’t remember—presumably they did consider it, but that was the reality. Sukkos fell on Thursday and Friday that year. It began Wednesday night, and then they arrived. Quite a few guests had come from Russia for the first time as well. So they asked the Rebbe—I don’t remember whether this was before Sukkos—whether perhaps there could be a farbrengen after all, without eating, without saying l’chaim. But a dry farbrengen is really very, very difficult. A farbrengen without refreshments. I remember that was the Rebbe’s expression. In practice, on Thursday night, the second night of Yom Tov, something interesting happened. The Rebbe came upstairs after Maariv on the second night of Yom Tov, reached the door of his room, and began looking for his key. He didn’t have it; he’d left it inside the room. It wasn’t like you remember, when Leibel was always there to open it. The Rebbe didn’t have the key, and suddenly it started raining very hard. I remember [unclear]—he climbed up to the windows of the Rebbe’s room. I don’t understand—where was the Rebbe? The Rebbe was outside his room. Well. He was standing by the door, and they were going to look for the key. Why would the rain be a problem? Wait. I’m telling you what I remember. From outside, he climbed up to the window and broke one of the panes with an easy motion. He opened it, got in, and opened the door for the Rebbe. The Rebbe thanked him. Wow. What happened then was that a few minutes

26:13 Speaker 2 The Rebbe was waiting by the door, and the Rebbe announced that there would be a maamar in the shul the following evening. That is—whom did he tell? The people standing there. It wasn’t announced to anyone else. I don’t think it was announced, though perhaps it was, but the Rebbe told those standing there that there would be a maamar in the shul. And indeed, that evening—before Kabbalas Shabbos—the Rebbe came in, and we understood there would be a maamar. But before it actually began, the Rebbe said to leave the niggun of three movements for later. And then—where was the Rebbe sitting, in the usual place for a farbrengen? In the usual place for a farbrengen. Yes, everyone sat there, they sang a niggun, and the Rebbe delivered a sicha. I think there were several sichos, and then a maamar. [unclear]. What? [unclear]. So there was a maamar then, if I’m not mistaken. Yes. Yes, afterward it came out edited in [unclear]. It came out edited in [unclear]. Yes, that was it. Yes, that was on the second night of Yom Tov. After that—it was a continuation of that; it was connected. It was. In other words, throughout Sukkos there was a certain burden on the Rebbe, a certain pressure. The Rebbe was very—under strain. The Rebbe didn’t seem—there was a sense of the opposite of joy about the Rebbe. I remember one day during Chol Hamoed, when the Rebbe came into the shul. They used to put out the Rebbe’s Tehillim, and in the middle of Pesukei Dezimra the Rebbe opened the Tehillim. The Rebbe opened it and looked at [unclear]. He looked for some time; I remember that. I saw it. You can—who was standing next to me and saw it first? Chaim [unclear] Segal from Afula. He saw it. If he remembers it, he—

28:08 Speaker 2 I remember seeing it too. At that time, in Eretz Yisroel—it was the twenty-fifth anniversary of the UN, and they held the thing they always hold around that time, the—what do you call it? I’ve forgotten. The assembly, yes. The assembly, the worldwide one, where all the leaders come. And then there was what was called the Rogers Plan. He wanted to raise the question of giving back territories, supposedly to make peace. The Rebbe was very much against it. But then, in 5731, the Rebbe began [unclear] with the householders. It was something to see how the Rebbe said what he said. He called the gabbai; he called Moshe Pinkus over, because he was the one who gave people the honor of reciting the pesukim. For the first one, they honor someone with the pasuk; they don’t sell it. And the Rebbe told him to announce, “[unclear].” On Simchas Torah 5731 they didn’t sell them—not even for the yeshiva? They didn’t sell them. They did sell them on Simchas Torah 5731 for the yeshiva, and on [unclear]—why? For [unclear]. Yes. Here they would honor the Rebbe with it. “[unclear].” And all the other pesukim, they would honor the guests who had come with them. But [unclear]—what? So the Rebbe told him to announce it, and he began announcing. The Rebbe asked, “Who can we put in Egypt?” For example—and I heard this myself—someone said Rashag, didn’t he? Someone said Rashag, and the Rebbe responded immediately. I heard him say, “Zicher, du kenst zayn mit shvere Mitzrayim.” Certainly, he was with [unclear] Egypt. Yes, that was—someone said it. They always say that someone called out Rashag’s name. That’s how I remember it, because afterward the Rebbe asked who—

31:51 Speaker 2 Who would be Egypt. Someone suggested Jordan too, for example. So someone said Jordan, and someone called out Hutner, because a month earlier there had been that whole story about what happened with him, but he wasn’t there. And that was how it went. [unclear] was from Iraq. Oh, for Iraq. Iraq, yes, yes. Who else among the householders do I remember from then? In any case, the whole crowd went with Rashag. Rashag went with the crowd and the householders, and that was that. They rejoiced. Then the Rebbe—throughout those hakafos of Simchas Torah, the Rebbe started every niggun himself, which was not at all usual. Yes, normally it wasn’t like that. But here the Rebbe started them. When it came to that point, other people started a niggun. Suddenly the Rebbe looked around and asked whether everyone was there, and the Rebbe began—in other words, the Rebbe began “Utzu Eitzah Vesufar,” the tune of the joyous song, right? “Utzu Eitzah Vesufar.” And afterward everyone [unclear]. After that it stayed that way, yes. And the Rebbe immediately began [unclear]. In other words, “Utzu Eitzah”—and the Rebbe began right away. The whole crowd was joyful. Yes. The whole crowd—it was an extraordinary joy. And the next day, at the Simchas Torah farbrengen, the Rebbe began speaking about it again. The Rebbe—the Rebbe said, “Who was it for?” Berel Levin. He was a bochur then. By 5734 he was already a bochur. Yes, that was Tishrei 5734. After that you went back to—Afterward I went back. Yes, that was a year in Brunoy. When did you become a student in Brunoy? That was—I already had that status after Tishrei 5732. By Tishrei 5732 you were already—I traveled after Yom Kippur, because I couldn’t travel earlier, given the situation with the accident in the family, what—

35:18 Speaker 2 had happened. When was the accident? The accident was at the beginning of Elul. So my father was in the hospital then. Were you in Brunoy, or were you at home, or...? I was in Brunoy. I received the telegram and immediately set out for London. I was already supposed to travel that Friday. To travel to the Rebbe? No, that Friday I was supposed to travel to England to prepare to go to the Rebbe, and before that Sunday I hadn’t yet [unclear]. Because of my father’s condition—he was in the hospital—I didn’t go, though I very much wanted to. They arranged for me to be able to travel after Yom Kippur. The plan was to stay until after Simchas Torah, and if necessary, I would return to England for as long as I was needed, and afterward I would go to yeshiva. We would see. I stayed and had yechidus with the Rebbe, so I had yechidus again. So you arrived for Tishrei. I arrived for Tishrei—for Sukkos and Simchas Torah. After Simchas Torah I went into yechidus, and then I wrote to the Rebbe. That is, I had a question: whether to stay and learn here, and if I stayed, whether at Oholei Torah or in Morristown. Now, my grandfather very much wanted Oholei Torah. The people running Oholei Torah were friends of his. And Ben Yosef Tov [?] also got involved in the matter, and so did Dovid. It really bothered him that I was thinking of going to Morristown. I was more inclined toward Morristown; for some reason I didn’t want to go to Oholei Torah. My grandfather had other reasons too. He looked for all sorts of reasons to get me to agree, so I asked the Rebbe. Grandfather was also there on 19 Nissan? Yes, yes. Despite the accident, he came right away. Yes. They decided he had to travel, and my grandmother traveled with him too, which was very difficult—

37:09 Speaker 2 for her. In any case, I asked the Rebbe whether I could stay here to learn, and whether—my father told me not to ask whether I should come back now, because everything was being taken care of. He might even come home with a nurse to take care of everything, though in the end that didn’t happen. But I shouldn’t ask the Rebbe about that; I should ask whether to stay here and learn. In other words, not to mention the option of going back at all. Yes. And if the Rebbe agreed, then the question was Morristown or Oholei Torah. So when I said—when the Rebbe wrote, the Rebbe began answering: “Regarding what you write about staying here to learn...” I was very anxious, because generally, with things like this, if you had previously been in another yeshiva, the Rebbe would refer you to its administration. Yes. I had already spoken to Reb Nissan about it, and Reb Nissan said, “Gezunterheit”—he had no problem with it. But I asked the Rebbe; I wanted to be completely sure. So Reb Nissan—and if the Rebbe told me to ask the administration, would that be enough? He said no, that wouldn’t be enough anymore. “If the Rebbe tells you to ask the administration, then you need to ask me, because I might have something further to say.” I was very anxious about what would happen. That’s interesting. It’s as though the question of the mashpia and the administration is a separate category. He was the administration. He was the administration. So there could be another consideration, for the good of the yeshiva or something like that. I don’t know; perhaps he had something from the Rebbe, so he couldn’t say more just then. From his own point of view, he had no problem with it. So I asked the Rebbe, and the Rebbe answered, “Regarding what you ask: if you have your father’s permission, you may stay here.”

38:41 Speaker 2 To study. I immediately told the Rebbe, “I have permission from my father.” “Permission from your father is certainly good. That is certainly good,” he said with a smile. No, you understand? Yes. Then the Rebbe said, “Regarding your question about Morristown or Thailand, approach both administrations. They’ll consider where you’re better suited. Or ask your friends.” “Or ask your friends.” “Or ask your friends.” I took the second option and asked my friends, and then I went to Morristown. I was in Morristown for my second and third years of study. That was the year—so it was the first year they moved to Morristown, wasn’t it? It was the year Morristown started, yes. Then, for my fourth year, I went to San Antonio. So you were in Morristown for two years? Two years in Morristown, yes. But during those two years in Morristown, I was also at the Rebbe’s every Shabbos farbrengen. We—I’m not certain, but when Newark first started, for example, the bochurim didn’t want to go there. Why? Because they were afraid they’d miss a farbrengen: often the Rebbe would only announce on Shabbos that there would be one. So the Rebbe told the administration they could call every Friday and be told whether or not there would be a farbrengen. That way, the bochurim in Newark didn’t miss any farbrengens. This went on for many years. But then, one Shabbos, some bochurim decided there would be a farbrengen. They didn’t ask permission and traveled in, but there was no farbrengen. The Rebbe said, “If that’s how they act, why do they need to ask me?” And the Rebbe stopped it. Stopped answering? Stopped. How did it work—would they call Chodakov? Rabbi Herson [?] would call Chodakov, and the Rebbe would be on the line. The Rebbe would tell Chodakov what to say to them.

40:21 Speaker 2 In other words, officially he wasn’t allowed to publicize it, but once the bochurim arrived, you knew that—then people knew it was happening. I don’t—I don’t know. The ones who were there. Now, what happened in Morristown? In Morristown, people said the Rebbe had reinstated this arrangement. But if the administration didn’t tell us—we didn’t know about it—so we were always worried: perhaps there would be a farbrengen and we’d miss it. That was how it went. But in Teves that year there were two Shabbos farbrengens in the middle of Teves, which was unusual [?]. In other words, there wasn’t supposed to be a farbrengen. We’d been told, “That’s it, we’re not traveling this Shabbos.” The administration had announced that we weren’t going. Suddenly, at one-thirty, Rabbi Shmuel Haber came in and said, “Anyone who wants to travel may go.” Some of the guys made it to [unclear]. Some got as far as Manhattan, to Lichtenstein, and went on foot—but there was a farbrengen. From that, we understood that apparently some sort of word had come through. Who was on the staff then? Haber was a rosh yeshivah—Shmuel Haber was a rosh yeshivah. Who was the mashpia? The mashpia was Rabbi Melech Tzvi. Melech Tzvi had actually come from Newark [?]. He had been in Newark. Yes, Rabbi Haber was new to Morristown. Rabbi Ozna [?] was in Morristown, but he had also been in Newark before. Ah, yes, that’s it. There was only one mashpia, and Rabbi [unclear] Cohen. Yes. How many students? How many bochurim were we? How many Temimim? The first year there were thirty, thirty-five of us. By the second year there were sixty. Approximately, if I’m not mistaken. And what do you remember from the year of the seventieth birthday? Anything special? It was the year of the seventieth birthday, and it had already begun in the winter. Things had already started. In other words, those who hadn’t been there for the sefer Torah celebration felt that what they’d missed then, they were going to get now. And it really reached a high point when the Rebbe spoke about

42:18 Speaker 2 it on Purim itself. It really reached a high point when the Rebbe spoke about it on Purim itself. That’s what we thought: that was the most we could expect them to do. Apparently the Rebbe had set the course—if he had done so for the sixtieth birthday, he would for the seventieth, especially since he’d already set it in motion a year earlier. But for the Rebbe to speak about it on Purim and encourage people to travel—that was the opposite of what happened in the year of the eightieth birthday. Back then the Rebbe spoke about giving gifts, you see. Yes. There was a farbrengen on Purim with a great deal in it—a number of new developments. One was that the Rebbe mentioned 1 Nissan. Another was that the Rebbe said bochurim entering yechidus needed to bring a note from the yeshivah administration saying where they were studying. That happened then, on Purim. It was something new; there had been no such requirement before. And what else happened then? There was another interesting point. Ah, preparations had already begun to move most of the bochurim studying at 770 to Chovevei Torah, because 770 was full. Nobody knew which had led to which: whether there were local homeowners who wanted to save it from being sold, and Chabad would take it over—but what would they do there? What was the idea? There was also the matter of strengthening the neighborhood. Then someone suggested: why do we need to study scattered around downstairs at 770, where things get disrupted and become a mess? The upstairs could be for the bochurim at 770—from the third year onward—and the chassanim and so on. The other guys would move out of the downstairs space. And then the uproar started. The bochurim weren’t prepared to accept it. They didn’t want it. “What do you mean? We want to be near the Rebbe.” They hadn’t considered that

43:59 Speaker 2 the learning could take place there, while the davening would be here. I remember that one day the bochurim put up a notice. This was before the era when such posters were forbidden, and the bochurim put up a notice in 770 saying that they wanted to separate us, cut us off from the Rebbe and move us away. It was unsigned and directed against the administration. I no longer remember the details, but it was something very forceful. There was an uproar—a battle between the administration and the bochurim. Then the Rebbe spoke about it. The Rebbe spoke about the upper waters and the lower waters, and the need to connect the lower waters with the upper waters. But then it was decided that we would go study at Chovevei Torah, while davening would remain at 770. In other words, Chassidus would be at Chovevei Torah, Shacharis at 770, Minchah at 770, and then we’d go back to learning, and likewise with Maariv. The davening would stay at 770; there wouldn’t be davening there. So that too—the upper waters—that was on Purim, Purim 5742. Before Purim 5742. Yes. Then 11 Nissan came around. Let me just tell you: I went into yechidus with the Rebbe in 5742, around then. I spoke with [unclear]. [Unclear]. I saw in the molad that Nissan—so I went into yechidus before Rosh Chodesh Nissan, because there was no yechidus in Nissan. There was no yechidus in Nissan, and I was supposed to enter yechidus with a note from the yeshivah administration. For some reason [?], the administration decided not to give the note to the bochur. They would submit it through their own channels. How did they submit it? Apparently they didn’t want the bochur to see the note in his hand, because he might open it. Though it never occurred to me: how could you open something you’d been given to hand to the Rebbe? You don’t play games with that. When I went into yechidus, the Rebbe took the note,

45:43 Speaker 2 He turned it this way, turned it that way, and I watched. Then the Rebbe said, “Vu iz dein tzetl fun hanhalas hayeshiva?”—“Where is your note from the yeshiva administration?” So I told the Rebbe that... It was very hard to speak, and I had to make an effort. I had wanted them to send it through the proper channels. The Rebbe immediately opened the drawer, took out a handkerchief, unfolded it, put it under my note, made some marks, and answered me. Did he look at the note? The Rebbe looked. To our eyes, it seemed as though the Rebbe hadn’t looked. No, but—you know, the Rebbe opened the note, looked at it for a second, and put it down. And the Rebbe gave me a bracha. The Rebbe told me to observe the birthday customs, to get an aliyah. I don’t remember the exact details, whether the Rebbe told me to get an aliyah on the preceding Shabbos. My birthday always falls on a Torah-reading day, so I don’t remember exactly how the Rebbe addressed that with me. That was in 5742. If we’re talking about yechidus, a new system began in 5743. Already that winter, when a bochur wanted to go into yechidus, he would approach Rabbi Groner and put his name down. Rabbi Groner would ask when his birthday was. After all, there was yechidus twice a week. Usually the bochur wanted to go in as close as possible to his birthday, before it, and Rabbi Groner would say, “Okay, you’ll go in on such-and-such a date.” In 5743, he began grouping all the bochurim together. A bochur would come wanting to go in on a particular day, around his birthday, and Rabbi Groner would ask, “When is your birthday? Okay, you’ll go in two weeks after it.” For some, it worked out beforehand. In other words, once a month he gathered everyone with

47:29 Speaker 2 birthdays together. One night, everyone whose birthday fell in that period would go in. It caused an uproar, because many missed their birthdays, and they started shouting. I—I couldn’t do that. What? Who are you shouting at? Who are you? It couldn’t be that he did [unclear]. That’s what I wanted to ask. But it looked as though he did [unclear]. I mean, he must have been given the go-ahead: “You do it.” Not “I’m telling you to do it”; rather, “You do it.” But he handled it properly, so no one would feel it. In 5743, I wanted to go into yechidus, and he told me, “After Pesach,” because I’d come toward the end of the period and was traveling for yechidus. I had arrived in Morristown. Right. So I told him I was going home for Pesach. He said, “Oh, if so, you can go in this—this week.” Not for my birthday, but because I was traveling. Yes, a combination. Fine, so I gained from it. The following year, I wasn’t planning to travel. When I came to arrange yechidus, he told me, “After Pesach.” I thought, well, after Pesach will be after my birthday. I’m not going to take up the Rebbe’s time by going in afterward—what for? If it’s not before, then I decided I wouldn’t go into yechidus. I’d write a note. Fine. Then [unclear] afterward—that is, when the new term began—Reb Shlomo Zarchi called me over and asked, “Have you been to yechidus?” I said, “No.” “So when are you going?” I said, “I’m not going.” He said, “Why?” I said, “My birthday was already during Pesach. Why should I go in to the Rebbe now? What am I going to tell

49:07 Speaker 2 him—that I had a birthday? It doesn’t feel right.” He said, “What difference does that make? Go into yechidus.” All right. I said to myself, fine, that’s what he says, but I have my own opinion too. Another week went by; it was still during Bahab. He asked me again, “Nu, ven geystu yechidus?”—“When are you going to yechidus?” I said, “I told you I’m not going.” He said, “Listen to me and go. If you don’t, you’ll regret it.” That’s what Shlomo told you? That’s what Shlomo told me. So I understood there was a hint here. I put everything together: the new system that had started the year before, grouping the bochurim together for yechidus, and all that. So I went to yechidus. I wrote nothing, just my name and [unclear]. Nothing else. Nothing at all. Nothing about a birthday, nothing... Yes, I was going to yechidus. The Rebbe looked at the note and said, “Birthday?” When he asked, I said yes. The Rebbe said, “Nu, you had your birthday.” “You had your birthday.” I don’t remember whether the Rebbe asked me when my birthday had been. No, the Rebbe didn’t ask me. When was the yechidus? Mid-Iyar? The yechidus was after Bahab. It was before Lag BaOmer, and the Rebbe gave me a bracha. A friend of mine was standing there and saw me go in. When I came out, he came over and said, “Twenty seconds.” That was it, and it was the last time that... Soon afterward, bochurim stopped going into yechidus. [unclear], the Rebbe stopped it. Then I understood what Shlomo Zarchi had meant. He apparently knew it was going to stop, and that if I didn’t

50:47 Speaker 2 go, there wouldn’t be another yechidus. Of course, he didn’t tell me. He probably knew about the whole process. What had happened became clear afterward: the Rebbe had wanted to stop yechidus already in 5743, by Lag BaOmer. Leibel asked the Rebbe to... yes, and then he suggested doing it in this way. Because for the Rebbe there were really two issues: time—time—and the growing number of people. The crowd was growing, and there was the question of time. And then the Rebbe presented it that way too. Afterward, it wasn’t just a matter of going into yechidus: “Did you do what I told you last year? You didn’t? Then why did you come in?” Because going in had become a sort of routine. The Rebbe—the Rebbe said to someone... a sort of routine. Yes. Anyway, I did go into yechidus then. The Rebbe didn’t mention any of that at the time. You were already eighteen. In 5744. In the meantime, the Rebbe had told me—when I went into yechidus in 5742, before my birthday, I wrote to the Rebbe that I had completed the corrective practice. The practice you’d been given a year and a half earlier. So the Rebbe said... I began at seventeen. At seventeen already. Wow. Seventeen, yes. With no conditions. Usually there are conditions. I remember bochurim who were eighteen and asked the Rebbe, and the Rebbe said, “On condition that [unclear], you may begin putting them on.” But here there were no conditions. No conditions at all. The Rebbe said yes. You mean, after you’d completed that strong segulah—he didn’t suggest it on his own; you suggested it? No. The Rebbe said it was a strong segulah, and I began putting on Rabbeinu Tam tefillin as well. He suggested it—he suggested it and said that it was already... It followed from

52:33 Speaker 2 that. I wrote that I’d completed the corrective practice I’d been given. Yes. Nu, and how does that turn into being a [unclear] bochur? That’s different from... All right, listen. Like a member of the household. What does it mean to become a [unclear] bochur? It means you’re there twenty-four hours a day, there every day. When I was in Morristown, I made sure to see the Rebbe at least once a week. Wow. If I saw the Rebbe on Motzaei Shabbos, I made sure that the following week I had some reason to come to [unclear]. There were various matters involving the program, all sorts of things, and that’s how it worked out the next week. The first year, I was also in [unclear], so I would lead davening in the Rebbe’s minyan. In the Rebbe’s minyan. My grandfather actually claimed that too. Of course. You can’t imagine what joy it brings the soul when the Rebbe answers, “Amen, yehei shmei rabbah.” So when I was there and the amud was available, I would lead davening. I also read from the Torah in the Rebbe’s minyan a few times. Yes? When? Once, I read after a yechidus. The yechidus had ended toward morning. I was still in [unclear]; it was in Tammuz, Parshas Mattos. Then I asked Dovid Raskin the day before I finished saying Kaddish for the yahrzeit, and he let me read. After that, twice my yahrzeit fell on a Torah-reading day, and he let me read then too, even though I was a bochur. Since you mentioned reading after yechidus: were you one of the group who were there on yechidus nights? No, no, I wasn’t there. I mean, I’m talking about when I was in Morristown, so I wasn’t there. But at the hospital it was summer, and I was there. Some interesting people went in then. Who? Um, what was his name? I think he was the last

54:26 Speaker 2 Something like that, because of his size. Ah, well, he was a member of the shul of... of [unclear]. Avraham Ravitz. Ravitz. He had a long yechidus. He was one of the activists. Yes, he was active in Yad L’Achim, right. His yechidus apparently wasn’t short. It was quite long. And he was the last one to go in for yechidus. So every so often we looked through the window—not at the Rebbe, but at the rabbi, to see him. He was sitting there like this. What do you mean, like this, with both hands on his head? That’s how I saw him. That’s how it was. After that yechidus, I understood that there was going to be some kind of confusion [unclear]. So I asked that bochur—I only remember the incident. When he came out, did he tell you what happened in the yechidus? I don’t remember. Who else do you remember coming out of yechidus? I wasn’t hanging around there. I’ll tell you why. It was something like a parting instruction from my mother. When I told her I wanted to travel to study in [unclear], she said to me, “You won’t study; you’ll be busy with who went in for yechidus and who didn’t.” So I was very careful about that—not to be among the people hanging around there. Later, when I was a bochur in [unclear], I was careful about when I went to sleep so I could get to seder on time. Isaac Springer once told me, before I left on shlichus, that the Rebbe chose me because I kept the sedarim. That’s what he told me. Whether he knew what he was talking about or had dreamed it up, I don’t know. In other words, you did make an effort to be at Chassidus at seven-thirty [unclear]. Keeping the sedarim was something I took very seriously. Yes. Very seriously. Maybe I shouldn’t

56:02 Speaker 2 boast about it, but that’s how I was. It was important to me. Chassidim know that if they learn that from you, it can only be a good thing. So... all right. Interesting. Do you remember times when the Rebbe arrived while you were learning Chassidus? The Rebbe arrived. People used to say that sometimes the Rebbe would come early. For our Minchah, the Rebbe would come at eleven, eleven-thirty, twelve, and on Monday and Thursday he would come at ten. To [unclear], yes. Yes, that happened. And what was the usual schedule? Now that we’re talking about it—I remember one Shabbos Shuvah. What year was it? There was a Shabbos Shuvah when the Rebbe came to 770 very early. When he went in, he approached the mikveh door, and it was locked. Moshe’s father [unclear] was there, and he asked... Shmuel was in the room. In the room, yes. The Rebbe asked if anyone was there, and then he came out. And the Rebbe asked whether they could arrange for the mikveh on Union to be open, because he wanted to go to the mikveh. That happened one Shabbos Shuvah morning. The mikveh on Union? Yes, the Rebbe used to go to the mikveh on Union. He went to the mikveh? Yes, yes. No, I know about that later, but he went on Shabbos too? On that Shabbos, the Rebbe asked. I remember one Shabbos when the Rebbe went to the mikveh after davening. It was in Iyar 5733. That Shabbos there was [unclear], and after davening the Rebbe went to the mikveh. You could see his tallis peeking out from under his coat. I remember [unclear]; the Rebbe spoke to him, and he arranged for people there to know, because the bochurim were still there at that hour too. He made sure they knew the Rebbe was coming. But the Rebbe did sometimes arrive earlier. I remember one time. It’s a story that’s already been published

57:58 Speaker 2 in [unclear]: two bochurim would accompany the Rebbe from his home to 770. At night, three bochurim would accompany him; during the day, between 770 and his home. Whoever was in charge would always tell the bochurim when they needed to be there. On Shabbos morning, for example, it was best to be there by nine or nine-fifteen, no later, because that was around the time the Rebbe would leave. At other times on Shabbos, we could be there at eight, because the Rebbe would generally leave home at eight or eight-fifteen, so we would come earlier. I remember it was the Shabbos before Rosh Hashanah 5738. Thirty-nine? Thirty-eight, before Rosh Hashanah ’38. We had to be there, and we arrived at seven-forty-five and waited. Time went by, and the Rebbe didn’t come out. He didn’t come out. We didn’t have watches—it was Shabbos—but we could feel time passing. A non-Jew walked by, and we asked him the time. He said it was already eight-twenty. We wondered what was happening, but we kept waiting. After a little longer—Where were you standing, on President Street? We stood beside the Rebbe’s house, on the side. On the side of the house, but on President Street. We waited there, and more time passed. We asked again: it was already past eight-thirty, eight-thirty-two, and the Rebbe still hadn’t come out. Suddenly the door opened and [the Rebbetzin] came out. “Who are you waiting for? My husband has been at 770 for a long time.” The Rebbe had left at seven-thirty. Right. It couldn’t be that the Rebbe wouldn’t be there by eight-thirty. Yes. But she realized you were simply waiting there. I remember Erev Pesach 5737. They announced that Shacharis on Pesach—Erev Pesach was Shabbos—would be at six-forty-five, not seven-fifteen. Usually, with the regular schedule, they could daven at seven-fifteen. This time they needed to start earlier, so they announced six-forty-five.

59:50 Speaker 2 Because of the change in the clocks? Yes, yes. I was sent there too. To accompany him. To accompany him, and the Rebbe left home two minutes after seven. The Rebbe simply hurried, almost running. It was something to see. The Rebbe arrived, and two minutes after he arrived, he came downstairs wearing his tallis. There was one time we accompanied the Rebbe from his home, and just before he turned onto Eastern Parkway, a young fellow, some [unclear] non-Jewish kid, approached the Rebbe and asked where to catch the bus to Prospect Park. The Rebbe stopped and looked, and then gestured with his hands as if to say he didn’t know. As if he didn’t know. The bochurim discussed it afterward. Perhaps he was Jewish. Maybe he was, and with a non-Jew, would it be permissible to tell him? Perhaps. So people really could approach the Rebbe... That’s what we said. He came up to him—you don’t even register it at first, because he looks like a passerby. A passerby, yes. He isn’t one of our people. He’s walking by and the Rebbe is walking by. What are we supposed to tell him, “You’re not allowed to approach”? The Rebbe certainly wouldn’t want that. And suddenly he asks the Rebbe, and the Rebbe stops, looks back, and gestures with his hands. Since we’ve started talking about the daily schedule in your years there, the Rebbe would go home around five or six for supper. Yes. Did he come straight back? In the winter he would come back earlier. I think he was there for about forty-five minutes, if I remember correctly. And how long, at night, when it wasn’t

1:01:45 Speaker 2 During yechidus, what time would the Rebbe usually stay in his room until? Eleven, twelve. And... yes? Would the mashbakim stay until the end, or...? I remember that during yechidus, Chadakov would stay until the end. And Groner was there until the end. I don’t remember Binyamin. No. The diary says that during one yechidus Groner wasn’t there—Groner had gone to Eretz Yisroel because his grandfather had passed away—so Binyamin was standing by the door during yechidus. I remember that Shwadron [?] went in for yechidus around that time. Rabbi Shalom Mordechai Shwadron [?]? Rabbi Shalom Mordechai Shwadron [?]. And he was there, and the Rebbe was speaking with him, and then Binyamin opened the door. Meaning, to hurry him along. To speed him up, to hurry him. So this happened a few times, and Shwadron [?] turned around to see who kept opening the door. So the Rebbe said to him, “See, the Jerusalemites too.” Yes, Jerusalemites too. Yes. The Rebbe could have said that about us as well—Jerusalemites too. Yes. That I remember. I remember that Binyamin [unclear]. Was he in there a long time? Huh? Was Rabbi Shalom Mordechai Shwadron [?] in yechidus a long time? I don’t remember anymore. It was half an hour, a little more. So 5734, the whole period of the... Yom Kippur War. The Yom Kippur War was in 5734. [Unclear], everything was happening; a lot of things were happening. So there was that, [unclear], yes. Ah, that was—the Rebbe spoke on 15 Tishrei, at the conclusion, but [unclear] was astonishing... [unclear]. Yes. The Rebbe spoke about some Gemara; I’ve forgotten which Gemara, but the Rebbe spoke about that subject. And then, on Erev Yom Kippur, something very interesting happened. The Alter Rebbe rules that on Erev Yom Kippur, even on Erev—there are those who rule that when Yom Kippur falls on Shabbos, one says Avinu Malkeinu on Shabbos. Normally one doesn’t say it. But since Avinu Malkeinu isn’t said on Yom Kippur, it is said on Shabbos. Mm-hmm.

1:04:02 Speaker 2 The Alter Rebbe rules that it isn’t said on Erev Shabbos either. Avinu Malkeinu is not said. And I remember that at the Rebbe’s, in 5731, it was Shabbos, and they didn’t say Avinu Malkeinu. I didn’t know the Alter Rebbe’s ruling, so I told someone that we say it today. He said, “No, in Chabad we don’t say it.” Mm-hmm. “You’ll see.” Fine. And indeed, the Rebbe really didn’t say it. In 5734 there was the same situation, and Schmerling [?] from Tel Aviv was there. And this was about Avinu Malkeinu. Meaning, the Rebbe [unclear], “That’s not right.” That’s what he said. That’s how he shouted. He had that sort of voice. He said it should be said, and you told him that the Rebbe says not to say it. “You’ll see, that’s not right.” And in the end the Rebbe did say Avinu Malkeinu. So that was astonishing. It was astonishing. But that was apparently also connected with what the Rebbe described as words of prophecy. The Rebbe spoke about something. Send the children. Send the children to daven during the summer. Yes. That was what happened on Shabbos Chazon in 5733, when the Rebbe called for all the children who were in 770, anyone who had not yet reached bar mitzvah or bas mitzvah age, to come down to the farbrengen, and he would give them l’chaim. So the girls came down from upstairs. There was actually a girl who was already over bas mitzvah age, [unclear], and the excitement of Simchas Beis Hashoeivah came through. I remember Berl Ginsburg, who lived in Montreal. He was just before his bar mitzvah, but he was already wearing a hat. By the way, there in New York they start wearing a hat two months beforehand, when they start putting on tefillin. Yes. Here in Eretz Yisroel they aren’t particular about that. It depends on the community. Lately that may have changed, because people heard about what happened once with the Rebbe. What happened? Once a boy passed by without a hat, and they told the Rebbe. His parents said, “He started putting on tefillin today.” So the Rebbe said, “Then why is he walking around without a hat?”

1:05:40 Speaker 2 Really? Yes. You mean at dollars? At dollars, yes. Mm-hmm. Oh, boruch Hashem, you’ve reminded me. You’ve reminded me of a lot of things. So, Berl Ginsburg came over, and the Rebbe asked him whether he was not yet bar mitzvah. That’s how I remember it. Listen, I remember I was here in Eretz Yisroel. I came to visit my grandfather after Pesach, before Lag B’Omer. The situation looked so good. After all, you could walk through the Old City of Jerusalem without being afraid of anything. And here the Rebbe starts talking to you about the situation: [unclear]. The situation isn’t good. So I felt that the Rebbe was telling us there was going to be a war. So you could already feel it then. And you could see how the Rebbe did so many things with the children. [Unclear]. That was it. The Rebbe had already started speaking about it on Lag B’Omer. The Rebbe had already started speaking. Meaning, the Rebbe didn’t come out for a farbrengen on Lag B’Omer. Right, not on Lag B’Omer. But the subject revolved around [unclear]. Then the war broke out. The news reached 770 in the middle of Musaf. What—do people really claim that they came to the Rebbe? After all, they came to [unclear]. Is there any truth to that? That’s what people said. What happened then? On that day they told the Rebbe that war had broken out. When, when that day did they tell him? After Musaf. During the break, in the room? As the Rebbe went up to his room, before he went into the room. That’s what people were saying then in 770; I remember that. People talked about it a lot, [unclear]. And you daveners who chat during davening—yes, you really knew in the middle of Musaf. I remember someone coming in during Musaf and saying there was a war in Eretz Yisroel. Afterward, when the Rebbe came down for Minchah—

1:07:33 Speaker 2 Could you see something in him? Even beforehand? I—I could see it beforehand. You could see it in the Rebbe beforehand. Afterward there’s a date; it’s [unclear]. Did the Rebbe climb onto a chair or not? Yes. In 5734, what happened in 5734? In 5734 they made steps. No, the Rebbe didn’t climb onto a chair, if I remember correctly. I hear you. In 5734 the Rebbe was on a platform. The Tishrei davening was on a platform; that was the first time the davening was on a platform. From 5734 there was a platform for the first time. Yes. In practice, the Rebbe didn’t climb onto a chair. That’s how I remember it. That’s how it was. I wasn’t there for that argument, so... Later on, yes, he did. I remember one year when the Rebbe did climb onto a chair, onto a platform. Until 5742, I was told. Yes. No, from 5738 onward I was there, but later I wasn’t. I remember that one year they made a sort of raised step, a set of steps. The steps came out afterward, and the Rebbe climbed onto it. That was already during my years, even in the 5740s and 5750s. But you also remember that in 5734 the Rebbe didn’t climb up. The Rebbe didn’t climb up. That’s how I remember it. But there was tremendous—there was joy. The joy was very strong. Then there was something else. I remember Reb Yankel Katz—Reb Yankel Katz would always tell in Bnei Brak how people from Eretz Yisroel tried to bring the Rebbe a pan the next day, on 4 Tishrei. The Rebbe was going out to the Ohel, or to the mikveh. The Rebbe wouldn’t agree to take the pan and said, “Why are you crying? Write it with joy.” Do you remember anything like that? What I remember is that it was on Chol Hamoed Sukkos. On Chol Hamoed Sukkos they approached the Rebbe and asked. They handed him a pan. That is, I’m telling you what someone [unclear] told me—he was...

1:09:17 Speaker 2 One of the people. And the Rebbe said, “Joy.” Why like that? The Rebbe said, “But I’m on the side of joy. Why am I on the side of joy? Why are you trying to pull me in the opposite direction? Yes, you go to the Ohel. Go to the Ohel.” And I remember standing nearby when someone took out money. “Do me a favor, go buy me a bottle of mashke, because we’re having a [unclear] and we want to say l’chaim.” I said I was waiting for [unclear] to buy something, so I couldn’t. Later I asked him, “Did you manage?” He said, “We’ll drink in Dovid’s sukkah.” We realized they had a sukkah there, so... That’s what I remember from then. There was the farbrengen on Sukkos. The Rebbe—there was a farbrengen on the second night of Sukkos. In other words, there was Thursday and Friday too. The Rebbe held a farbrengen on Thursday. On the first day of Yom Tov, the Rebbe came out of 770 to go home. There were lots of young men standing around a police car that was there, because otherwise you couldn’t hear the news. All right, that I remember. That is, the Rashag asked me to find out from Rabbi Klein whether there was any news, in the middle of Yom Tov. In the middle of Yom Tov. So I went to him and said the Rashag had asked. He told me they had decided to go for Damascus. I passed that on to the Rashag. In other words, they had somewhere to hear it. I think they left a radio on throughout Yom Tov inside the offices. But here a lot of bochurim were standing around the police car, apparently listening to the news. The Rebbe came out of 770, and usually, when the Rebbe came out, people noticed immediately and dispersed. Here the Rebbe came down, passed the police car, and nobody moved. The Rebbe stopped and looked once. The Rebbe passed it and looked back again, and you could see the Rebbe wasn’t pleased. And then, uh—where did the Rebbe turn

1:11:21 Speaker 2 to look again? The Rebbe walked on and looked intently at the people standing around the police car. Then the Rebbe continued and turned around—uh, turned around. He turned, looked, looked once more, and then went home. So they weren’t accompanying him then? Apparently some people were. And the bochurim didn’t say anything to him? The bochurim were busy with what they were doing. They couldn’t just stop in the middle like that. Afterward the fellows caught on; they understood. When the Rebbe came back for Minchah, after Minchah the Rebbe announced there would be a farbrengen, and everyone understood that it probably wasn’t going to be very pleasant. And indeed, the Rebbe began the farbrengen: instead of doing what was asked of them joyfully, and holding a farbrengen, and doing it nevertheless—no, not a farbrengen. The Rebbe spoke in a very—yes, “nevertheless” is [unclear]. The Rebbe spoke very, very, very forcefully. It was unpleasant. About what—going to listen to the news? About being occupied with matters of death, or things even worse than that. Then Simchas Torah came. Simchas Torah was joyful. Yes. When was that? Yes, that was already in ’41. The Ohel, Hashem’s name. The Ohel, Hashem’s name, but here it was. But in general, I once heard from Reb Yoel—I was a young bochur, and Reb Yoel was not someone who spoke with a lot of outward emotion. Yes. I remember he once said this. Right. This is a preface to what I want to ask you. He said that with the Rebbe, you could see it even on Yom Tov. Already on Sukkos you could see joy. The moment the Rebbe came in for Maariv on Shemini Atzeres, before [unclear], before the break before [unclear]—just for Maariv. Yes. His face, he said—it brought out such a feeling of longing. Just to see for a moment

1:13:11 Speaker 2 that face, that joy. Absolutely. I’m saying, describe it a little—just an ordinary Sukkos, it doesn’t matter which year. Yes, absolutely. For the Rebbe, Simchas Torah was the joy. It was something entirely different. No. It’s a fact. Simchas Torah was special. Simchas Torah was even more joyous than Shemini Atzeres. Not than Shemini—even Shemini Atzeres, I mean. More than Shemini Atzeres. Yes. But you could already see it on Shemini Atzeres. Yes. Is there a particular Simchas Torah you remember? Where did you stand for hakafos? Where did I stand for hakafos? You stood close for everything, boruch Hashem, but... I think I stood at the corner of the farbrengen platform. The farbrengen platform. That’s the place the Rebbe [unclear], because you could see both: this and that. And I really had a lot of guests there [unclear]. Nowadays, at that spot—though I haven’t been at Simchas Torah for many years—all my cousins and nephews stand there together, all in one place. Where did Grandfather stand during hakafos? Reb Mendel. On the Rebbe’s platform, closer to [unclear]. The elders, or wasn’t he? The elders. Yes, he would also go in the hakafah with the Rebbe. That is, in the first hakafah with the [unclear]. So he was part of it too. Besides the Rebbe and the Rashag. They danced together. Yes, they would invite other elders too. When they went out first, all the sifrei Torah were being held. The chazzan went first, the Rebbe second, the Rashag third, and then another five or six people. They all stood to the side with the sifrei Torah and danced, while the Rebbe danced in a circle with the Rashag. How long did the Rebbe’s hakafah with the Rashag usually last? With the Rashag it was the minimum, because the Rashag was ill. How long? That was the Rashag. He pushed himself as much as he could, and you could see that he was

1:15:00 Speaker 2 making an effort to dance as long as possible. I’ll tell you the truth: the first time the Rashag didn’t come to hakafos—in ’41—everyone knew that this time the hakafah would be much longer. Afterward he did come. One year he wasn’t feeling well, but he made the effort to come. In ’48. I don’t remember when it was. In ’48 he made the effort and went upstairs. So they took him back upstairs. I do remember that. Before—before hakafos, and you could see that people understood. All right. No, that was in ’48. He really wasn’t feeling well. He was at Maariv, and then they took him back. It was as though he had come for hakafos, and he... Yes. Perhaps he had already bought a verse for the first hakafah, if he was there. A verse, if he was there. Yes. Then there’s another episode I remember from Simchas Torah ’48. Oh. On Simchas Torah, Rabbi Tedeshevsky [?] was selling the verses. After the Rebbe finished the first niggun before “Atah Hareisa,” he began making announcements. The Rebbe called him over and said something to him. He went back to where he had been standing, and the Rebbe said—the Rebbe, on Simchas Torah night, at night. So Anash. Yes. What does “at his expense” mean? As if he bought it for them? The Rebbe buys the verse and honors— And they would announce that the Rebbe was buying it. Yes, yes. Particular verses? I don’t remember particular verses, apart from “Aderes V’emunah,” which everyone remembers. By the way, was that Shemini Atzeres or Simchas Torah? “Aderes V’emunah” was on Simchas Torah. Simchas Torah. There was also a time when the Rebbe sang the verses of the fourth hakafah, something... “[unclear].” He did it with both hands. He did it with both hands. He had already put the siddur back.

1:18:31 Speaker 2 So the Rebbe stood facing the crowd, holding the siddur, and read from the siddur—no, what he had. Throughout the hakafos, the Rebbe did a great deal, even in a hakafah when he wasn’t dancing. In any case, the Rebbe would say—when the chazzan, I mean, when the Rebbe went for the first and seventh hakafos, the chazzan would say, “Hashem, save us; may the King answer us on the day we call.” Yes. And the verses printed in smaller letters, the Rebbe would say when he returned to his place. After the hakafah? After the hakafah, the Rebbe would say the verses in smaller letters. Not during the hakafah. Not during it. It sounds as though you were there and never saw such a thing. I was there; I was a child. That’s what happened. Just a second, this is interesting. It wasn’t only the first and seventh; it was every hakafah. The Rebbe would stand in his place and, when... the Rebbe would look at the crowd. Between hakafos the Rebbe would look. And when the Rebbe stopped the hakafah—he stopped the singing—the hakafah was over. Then they would bring the sefer Torah. When the Rebbe [unclear] the sefer Torah, he would look at it. That’s the proper way when a sefer Torah is being carried: you look at it. Yes. So that’s what happened here. He followed it with his eyes. The Rebbe returned to his place and said the verses in small print. Then they took the sefer Torah from the Rebbe and began bringing sifrei Torah to others. The Rebbe stood and watched. He watched as they returned the sefer Torah to the aron kodesh. No, they didn’t return it after each hakafah; they passed it from one person to another. They didn’t return it. They didn’t. That’s another point. That’s what I remember. There are two interesting customs here. I... One second. This I remember: the verses in small print, what they call the small letters, the Rebbe would say after—after they finished the

1:20:03 Speaker 2 The niggun, the niggun. Every year. That’s what I’m telling you. The Rebbe would stand and watch. We’d get ready for the hakafah, and then the chazzan would begin. Someone would announce who was being honored with the hakafah. Then the chazzan would say, “Hoshiah; may the King answer us on the day we call.” The Rebbe would look out, they’d start the niggun, and the Rebbe would lead it with his hands. But only once the Rebbe himself started; then he would begin moving his hands. The Rebbe faced the crowd until he stopped moving his hands. Then the niggun stopped, and the Rebbe turned toward the wall and said the short verses. When he finished those verses, he faced the crowd again, and then the next hakafah began. The next hakafah began, yes. That’s how it looked from outside. In other words, it wasn’t the Rebbe saying the verses; it was the chazzan. Each hakafah had someone leading it, and everyone repeated after him. Yes, but the short verses—the Rebbe would say them after the niggun was over. Did the crowd say them afterward too? Anyone who noticed probably did, but the crowd didn’t notice. Whenever I tell people this, it was really different. I saw it time and again, and nobody—but even today, in an Anash shul, they don’t do it that way. Right, people don’t know about it. They do it the other way around. They say them immediately. Correct. Immediately, yes. The Rebbe said them afterward, both at his own hakafah and at the other hakafos. At every hakafah, right after “may He answer us on the day we call,” they would start singing the niggun. The Rebbe would look at the crowd, and then they would

1:21:35 Speaker 2 start singing. They sang the song, and the Rebbe turned toward the wall. Even at his own hakafah—the seventh hakafah, for example—it was the same. The Rebbe said “Shema Yisroel” and “Baruch shem” only after the hakafah. After he returned to his place, he said those verses. He had already handed over the Sefer Torah, and then he said “Shema Yisroel” and “Baruch shem.” So he actually said them at the end of the hakafah. Yes, yes, before they put the Sefer Torah away. Then they returned the Sefer Torah to its place, announced, “This concludes the seventh hakafah,” and said “Ribbono.” Now, another thing about Simchas Torah of ’70—wait, so in ’74, when he started singing. That’s what I don’t remember. Was it... I mean, it should have been the chazzan. It was in place of the niggun they sing while dancing. They wanted to start a niggun, but saw that the Rebbe didn’t want them to, because he wanted to begin himself. He took the siddur, turned toward the crowd, and started singing. He turned from facing the wall to facing the crowd? Yes. He turned with the siddur? With the siddur. He held it in both hands and began, “[unclear] ... and all the people ... forever,” and continued until he reached “[unclear].” Then he put the siddur down and said, “[unclear].” With both hands. Yes, with both hands. That was it. It didn’t happen at the other hakafos. That’s all. I don’t remember whether they sang another niggun afterward. I don’t remember whether that followed. But it happened only once. Later, when they started “Ha’aderes Veha’emunah,” how did that begin? What, the French “Ha’aderes Veha’emunah”? That was at the fifth hakafah. It was at the fifth hakafah.

1:23:09 Speaker 2 The Rebbe said to honor all the French visitors with the hakafah. They all began saying the verses. There wasn’t a Sefer Torah for each of them, but the Rebbe wanted all the French visitors to be together there. The Rebbe stood watching. They were already about to start singing—they had said the verses and wanted to begin—but the Rebbe was still looking out and wasn’t letting them start. The Rebbe asked, “Is everyone here?” When they told him yes, suddenly the Rebbe began—so they were all out in the middle of 770, while the Rebbe was in his place. In his place, yes. Then the Rebbe began “Ha’aderes Veha’emunah.” Where did the niggun come from? Nobody knew it, but everyone could see that the French visitors knew it. They sang the second part too, the part that goes “ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah.” The Rebbe didn’t object, and that’s how it remained. After the hakafah, once the Rebbe had gone to his room, Motke Bartolshevsky [?] stood there and taught the whole crowd the niggun “Mazel Zchuseinu.” He knew it from France. Now, on Yud Shvat, the idea of a crown on a Sefer Torah was introduced in Chabad for the first time. What, on Moshiach’s Sefer Torah? Moshiach’s. At that point there were two Sifrei Torah: Moshiach’s Sefer Torah, and then another Sefer Torah that the Rebbe had brought in. And on—when was it? What? On Yud Shvat. Before the farbrengen, the Rebbe came down with a Sefer Torah—another Sefer Torah. Another Sefer Torah. There were two Sifrei Torah upstairs in Shmuel’s room, one with a gold crown and one with a silver crown. Now, when they brought out Moshiach’s Sefer Torah, it

1:24:55 Speaker 2 had the crown on it. They would bring out Moshiach’s Sefer Torah for maftir on Yom Tov. So one Sefer Torah had a crown and the other didn’t. The Rebbe said it wasn’t fitting for one to have a crown and the other not to. So they should take the crown off the other Sefer Torah and put it on the Sefer Torah they read from. Then, at the hakafah in ’71, the Sefer Torah was left without a crown. The Rebbe also said not to dance with the Sefer Torah. The chazzan, who took the Sefer Torah, stood off to the side. He just stood there; he didn’t dance with it. That’s how it was on Simchas Torah of ’71. But afterward, on Simchas Torah of ’72, the Rebbe asked why there was no crown. They explained that, because it was the hakafah, they had left the crown off. So for one year it was without a crown, and as I recall, on Simchas Torah of ’72 they put it back. And then the Rebbe said to dance with the Sefer Torah? Yes. The first year, the Rebbe had said not to. That’s how I remember it. The second Sefer Torah the Rebbe brought—do they know where it is? That was also a Sefer Torah that came from Morocco. It was from Tunisia. From Tunisia. And there was another one then too. It was a Sefer Torah. There was also an occasion, people say, when the Rebbe asked for Gordetsky [?] to be there, and he opened the ark into which the Rebbe had placed the Sefer Torah. There are pictures of the Rebbe—yes, arriving with the Sefer Torah. After that, Simchas Torah of ’75? What happened on Simchas Torah of ’75? No, I’m asking what happened. What, at the hakafah? Not just the hakafah. ’74, ’75. Wait, the tanks. A little about the tanks. The mitzvah campaign tanks. They started in the summer of ’75. Seventy-five. Seventy-five, yes. Rabbi Shmuel Greisman was one of the first to organize it.

1:26:43 Speaker 2 Sholom Duchman—what’s his name?—as well. It was a truck with a microphone, to help people put on tefillin. The mitzvah campaigns were already underway; the mezuzah campaign had already begun. But then the emphasis was on the mitzvah of tefillin. Why trucks, all of a sudden? Where did the idea come from? Why did they suddenly decide on that? Probably because it gave people a place to step into, and you could drive around with a loudspeaker and make it more visible. Later we heard that the Rebbe was very pleased with it, so people became more enthusiastic. It was a truck; it wasn’t yet the camper with the projector. Right. They made that in the winter of ’75, because in winter you couldn’t drive around in a truck. A truck means one of those more open trucks. Later the Rebbe referred to them as tanks against assimilation. So someone drew a tank, and they began making stories out of it—how to put on tefillin in a tank. There was encouragement from the Rebbe too. Once, when the Rebbe came from home, something happened. Yes. As it grew and grew that summer, there’s the famous picture of the Rebbe standing with trees around him. He had stopped to look at the tanks. When the Rebbe arrived for the Torah reading, the tanks would head out. That meant that those who went on the tanks weren’t at the Torah reading. They heard the Torah reading first. They set out at ten, when the Rebbe arrived, and the Rebbe went in for the Torah reading afterward. That went on all summer. In any case, the yeshivah was very quiet in the summer. Students went out on Merkos Shlichus or to camps. So from the administration’s point of view, it didn’t interfere much. It was summer, and it continued until around the middle of Elul. Then, after Tishrei

1:28:53 Speaker 2 They wanted to keep it going. So Sholom Duchman told us about those enclosed trailers, where you could put a person inside and they could warm up and so on. But then the administration said the yeshiva couldn’t be closed, and they had to make a schedule: who would go on this day and who would go on that day. Did people go every day? I don’t think so. It was in certain periods. I don’t think they went in Cheshvan. Later, in Kislev, around Chanukah, it did start. It was at certain times, as I remember it. So I went once a week. During that year I was at Ocean Parkway. We were shluchim at Ocean Parkway, and we heard classes from Rabbi Yoel Kahn. What did it mean that you were at Ocean Parkway? Did you sleep there? We studied there. Every year there were shluchim— Yes, but I mean, practically, every farbrengen, every... That year the Rebbe sent shluchim to yeshivos. Yes, they went to other places, Montreal and Brunoy. So we wanted that too. It had already become a regular thing each year for bochurim from 770 to go for a year to strengthen a yeshiva. And the answer was that Rabbi Yoel would teach you a topic. Rabbi Yoel would come to give a class. There were classes on Samach Vav and classes on Tanya. The tapes, the recordings of Rabbi Yoel’s Tanya classes—I was one of the people who initiated that. Initiated it. There was [unclear] Posner, the shliach in Skokie, Illinois, and me. We got into the office. In the corridor of the offices there was a speaker system through which they could hear what was happening in every classroom, in all the rooms. So there was a connection: you pressed a button and could hear what was going on. If the administrator wanted to know what was happening,

1:30:52 Speaker 2 whether they were studying in Russia and so on—to keep an eye on the teachers, not the students. To keep an eye on everything. Everything. So somehow or other we got a key to that room, and when Rabbi Yoel came to give a class, we would put a tape recorder there and turn on the switch. Rabbi Yoel would not have agreed. We knew Rabbi Yoel would not agree to being recorded. Recordings still weren’t such an accepted thing then. Today you can’t speak without being recorded. So we did it quietly. But once Rabbi Bogomilsky caught us and took it. He didn’t say anything to us; he didn’t catch us setting it up. He just came in during a class, took the tape recorder and hid it. So we didn’t have the tape recorder. We knew he had done it, and we asked for it back, but he didn’t want to give it to us. “Who says you can do such a thing without permission? You have to ask him.” We told him, “Listen, we’re not doing this so we can say we have it. We’re doing it because there are people who want to hear it. Granted, Rabbi Yoel wouldn’t agree if you asked him, but why does it bother you?” In the end he returned the tape recorder to us. So the tapes of Rabbi Yoel’s Tanya classes come from those years, from that year. Wow, that’s a great merit, because those classes of Rabbi Yoel became the basis for— Yes. —thousands of people coming close to Tanya. And you would come—

1:32:27 Speaker 2 Were there farbrengens in the middle of the week throughout 5735? Hardly any. Yes, there were. There were? By 5735 there were already farbrengens. We would get word beforehand. There were farbrengens we thought might happen, and we would immediately leave by taxi. I remember the farbrengen in Iyar: the Rebbe arrived quickly and held a farbrengen. It was Rosh Chodesh Iyar. The maamar. By the time we arrived, we heard the first verse of the first maamar. The Rebbe began the maamar in the middle of the niggun. The Rebbe wanted to begin the maamar even before the rabbi was supposed to speak. His address. His address. So while they were singing the customary niggun, the Rebbe had already begun the maamar. Yes, the Rebbe began the maamar in the middle of the niggun. Wait, but was that the beginning of the farbrengen? What? Why did you arrive late? Didn’t you know there would be a niggun? No, I mean, it was the beginning of the farbrengen. The Rebbe hadn’t said a sicha first. The Rebbe would announce the farbrengen after Minchah. The Rebbe would go into his room after Minchah. It was already summer, so there wasn’t time to say the farbrengen would be in an hour. Generally, most of the surprise farbrengens in those years began immediately, or nearly immediately. And they immediately connected the sound system. In Montreal we missed the farbrengen in Adar of 5732 because it was truly unexpected. Nobody thought it would happen. The Fifteenth of Shvat had been in 5734. 5734, and the Rebbe held a farbrengen. So in 5732 we thought there might be a farbrengen, and they prepared everything. But by the time the Rebbe announced it after going into his room, everyone was already waiting in their places. Everyone expected a farbrengen. But in Montreal we heard it over the broadcast, because it happened so suddenly. We didn’t know there would be a farbrengen until the Rebbe began [unclear].

1:33:58 Speaker 2 So you did make it from there? You expected to make it to most of the farbrengens. Who? Yes, we came from [unclear]. No, we didn’t miss a farbrengen. Yitzchak, you stayed in the yeshiva? Yes, there was [unclear] from 5734 to 5735. When the Rebbe went to the sedorim, did you go? Yes. So what was the procedure when the Rebbe came to the...? The Rebbe would come in, and we bochurim would be waiting. We would arrive right away. It was at [unclear], as it was called. Yes. Where Tzeirei Chabad is. Where the kollel is today. Where the kollel is today. We would arrive right away, take our places, arrange the crowd and wait for the Rebbe to come. I remember in 5734, the Rebbe came in and passed through the first corridor. There was one table, then another table, and another. The Rebbe would walk through, look around, go into the kitchen, and then bless the— The matzos. The matzos. Afterward he came out, stood there and gave the blessing. I had seen where the Rebbe stood in 5734. It was a little far from where I was standing, and I hadn’t managed to get a place there. The Rebbe stood there. Was it a short blessing or a long one? What? In 5734 the Rebbe said [unclear], “As in the days of your going out of the land of Egypt, I will show him wonders,” very soon indeed. Since the [unclear] of that year was like “the days of your going out of the land of Egypt”—that is, Pesach [unclear]—so “I will show him wonders” very soon indeed. The blessing was a sentence or two. In later years, before the Rebbe stopped going, it was a little longer, but then it was really just that. I remember that in 5734, when the Rebbe came in, it was on Shabbos, so they had set out candles. Yes. Candles, candles, candles. So the Rebbe said that two...

1:35:48 Speaker 2 Two candles should be next to each other. [unclear]. Not joined together, but next to each other. There’s also something else: Yankel Katz from Chicago used to sit with us at the Seder. He was one of the people who sat in the Rebbe’s sukkah; he was close to the Rebbe. Yes, so he— Did he keep coming after 5731? Yes, he kept coming, and he was with the bochurim. He ate with the bochurim. There’s also the thing with Musya. I still remember Musya. The Rebbe had told her to light a candle and bring the candles she lit into the hall, where the bochurim were. In my time she treated it with tremendous reverence: since the Rebbe had told her to do it, she really did it. So—you’re talking about [unclear]. When were you there? I was there at the end of [unclear], after Gimmel Tammuz. But she was still doing it. Apparently, the Rebbe had once told her to bring a candle for the bochurim, so there would be a candle at Kiddush. She would light it somewhere in the kitchen, where she was sitting separately, and bring over one candle. No, after that came the whole matter of the holy shluchim. I once heard that when someone mentioned that expression to the Rebbe, the Rebbe said you mustn’t say it. That’s what the Rebbe said? Yes. The Rebbe said, “Translate it into English.” In English, “holy shluchim” would mean that the shliach himself is holy. That’s already a long story. So... Yes, that was all in 5736. Yes. It was a very big thing. Who wouldn’t have wanted to be included? You went in 5738. Yes. When did it begin? When did you find out there would even be a group? When did I find out there would be a group? When did you—and the public—find out? In 5738, the Rebbe spoke about it on Yud Shvat. Yes. And people began submitting notes the next day.

1:38:04 Speaker 2 The replies started coming out on Friday, the eve of Shabbos Mevarchim. That was when the selections were announced. Yes. Rosh Chodesh was on—Rosh Chodesh was Tuesday and Wednesday. Wednesday was Rosh Chodesh, and Thursday was 2 Adar. Yes. And then they started. There was a very heavy snowfall, so Binyamin couldn’t [unclear] by telephone, and it was hard to reach people; the bochurim hadn’t arrived. But in the previous group, a year earlier, in 5737, names had started coming out just a few days after Yud Shvat. Here it took two weeks after Yud Shvat before names started coming out. What people said was that the Rebbe wanted to hear from all the shluchim who were already here, from the first two groups of 5736 and 5737, that they agreed to remain in Eretz Yisroel [unclear]. Because when the Rebbe spoke about the shlichus, the Rebbe hadn’t said it would be permanent; it was spoken of as [unclear], or perhaps that after two years they would go home. And here—later on, it became clear. That it would be permanent; by then, that was already known. So they said it took time until everyone had written, and then the list started coming out. I was the last one to receive word from the Rebbe. The last? I was the last, and I was in London. My sister got married that same week, on 2 Adar, and the snowfall was very heavy. The wedding was on Thursday. We didn’t travel until Wednesday night. Wow. We booked a flight, and we all arrived— You traveled from the Rebbe, from New York. Yes. We arrived Thursday morning, and the wedding was Thursday evening. Wow. Then came Shabbos, and on Sunday evening my aunt got a phone call from Binyamin. He was looking for me. I called him, and he told me that I had been— Selected. Selected. So [unclear] was very happy. [unclear] was at the wedding, because it was his grandson who married my sister. So there was [unclear]. I had been selected for the shlichus.

1:40:17 Speaker 2 He felt you were his student. What? He saw you as his student. Something like that, apparently. You were close to him. When I was a bochur, we were both redheads. He didn’t give me a hard time very often. In the end, it helped. You heard the story. I heard the story afterward. I said, “In the end, it helped.” Yes. What happened with me was this: On Motzaei Shabbos, I called to speak with one of my friends. What happened on Shabbos, on 17 Nissan? He asked whether I was going. I told him, “I don’t know anything about it. Nobody has told me a thing.” Apparently he told Mendy Groner. Mendy Groner told him that I was planning to return from England only the following week, so Binyamin called. Apparently he hadn’t wanted to trouble me with it. So my grandfather asked me, as soon as I arrived, [unclear] to Zurich. I said I was planning to travel the following Thursday, a week after the wedding. He said, “Then get me a ticket too. I want to travel as well.” Why? He said he was a shliach and hadn’t seen the Rebbe for a few months. He missed him and wanted to see how things were. That is, he had been there on 17 Teves. He had been there on 17 Teves. He had traveled on the eve of Shevi’i Shel Pesach, and he wanted to see the Rebbe. To see how his health was. His health, yes. That was very important to him. So I arranged a ticket for him, and then Binyamin said [unclear] the ticket for the next day, and he traveled with me. The next day he traveled with me, and we arrived, and afterward— Wait, he was there because he had simply come for the wedding. He had come for the wedding, yes. Then he traveled to the Rebbe, and he planned to return on the Sunday before Purim.

1:42:06 Speaker 2 So before Shabbos he submitted a note saying he was traveling on Sunday. Back to Eretz Yisroel or to London? To Eretz Yisroel. Yes. And the Rebbe answered that, if he could stay a few more days, the Rebbe wanted to send him together with the shluchim. Apart from Purim—Purim had come first. So that was it. In other words, the Rebbe had sent Mendy with the first group and Yosef with the second group. So what did he do in 5737? He was there in 5737. In Shvat he was with the Rebbe; he was there to proofread the Seder, so the Rebbe included him with the group. And here the Rebbe included his grandfather with the group, and he too received the same full envelope. So he received everything the shluchim received, apart from the money in the envelope. Wait, but before that, on Purim, the Rebbe delivered a maamar. There was a maamar. “LaYehudim.” Afterward there was—yes, it wasn’t “VeKiblu HaYehudim.” What do you mean, “Kiblu HaYehudim”? I didn’t hear that; you’re saying “LaYehudim”? No, no, “VeKiblu HaYehudim.” “Kiblu HaYehudim,” yes. The Rebbe [unclear]. Yes, that was right afterward. Yes, yes, immediately. Also with the sicha. Right. It was in the kuntreisim; it was for 21 [unclear]. Afterward the Rebbe began speaking about the shlichus. Then the Rebbe called us to come up. To come up in front of everyone. Yes, and the Rebbe gave each person an envelope. The Rebbe gave us provisions for the journey. What was in the envelope? There were kuntreisim: a kuntres of [unclear] with the signature, and a maamar, “Ve’eileh Hamishpatim,” which the Rebbe had proofread. There was a Purim 5737 kuntres, the maamar “LaYehudim,” and the sicha the Rebbe had delivered for the shluchim going to Tzfas. The Rebbe then said that tomorrow, before the departure, he would give us Likkutei Sichos. In the sicha, the Rebbe said he wanted to give them provisions for the journey: books, including a book that explains what the Master of the Universe wants.

1:43:57 Speaker 2 That is what the Rebbe called Likkutei Sichos: a book that explains what the Master of the Universe wants of us. That was the book we received from the Rebbe. The Rebbe had requested that it have a special cover. The first two groups hadn’t had that. And here it came together with—with that week’s Likkutei Sichos selection. There was a dollar with it. That’s what we received from the Rebbe: the Likkutei Sichos selection that came out then, [unclear]. That same week, yes. And a kuntres of [unclear]. No, no, I received that afterward. That was on—on 12 Tammuz we received a general letter. The Rebbe sent a letter, and we received it. So I merited to receive the general letter with the kuntres. In other words, the Rebbe sent a letter to all the shluchim. Yes, it was a general letter. There was a drawing for it. How was it, folded up like that in the envelope? With the kuntres of [unclear]. Yes, so I won the letter. And... then the Rebbe gave us the envelope. The Rebbe then gave the instruction to send people to Tzfas, to send people to Jerusalem, and to distribute them in Kiryat Malachi and throughout Jerusalem. Afterward the Rebbe asked the shluchim to come down from the groups. Those who traveled—the married men, and also you bochurim? Yes. Then everyone approached the Rebbe. Each person received an envelope, but they left in that direction. In other words, the Rebbe was sitting here. In the center. We came from here, and we— You came through the corridor— Yes. From the west. The way the Rebbe came in. And you went out toward the inside, yes. The shluchim came from the stairs here. Which stairs, the ones by the...? Are there stairs there? By the [unclear]. Yes. Yes. The stairs, and they went up— Straight onto the platform. Straight to the Rebbe, and they went back— Down those same stairs. Yes. They didn’t go through the crowd at all. They didn’t pass through the crowd. Yes.

1:45:46 Speaker 2 That means they received the envelopes, and along with the envelopes they also received two dollars to give to their parents. We had already received ours. To give to their parents. To give to their parents. Then, after they went down, the Rebbe said that he wanted to express his deep thanks to the parents who had raised children who became shluchim. He asked the shluchim to come up again, and he would give each one two dollars to give to their parents. After he had given the shluchim what he gave you. Yes. So he gave a sicha and asked us to come up again. Now I come up. First of all, my grandfather didn’t know what this meant for the parents. Suddenly the Rebbe took two dollars, smiled and gave them to us. To us too. Now I’m thinking, what do I do? Take two dollars or take one? Because I only have my father. Um. Then I see that the Rebbe takes them and gives each person one and then another one. He doesn’t take two and hand them over together. One and then another one. So I understood that I should take one and go. And that’s what I did. The Rebbe finished giving everything out, saw that it was me, and continued. He didn’t say anything. Afterward the bochurim descended on me. They said I should have waited; the Rebbe was giving everyone two dollars. I didn’t know what to think. What was this? Then Binyamin said to me—remember Binyamin?—“If the Rebbe had wanted to give you another one, he would have called you back and given it to you. The Rebbe didn’t call you back. That’s a sign that the Rebbe gave them for parents who are living.” But Binyamin said, “You know what? Take another dollar.” So I took one. It was one of the Rebbe’s dollars. I took it and gave it to my father

1:47:14 Speaker 2 and told my father—our flight had stopped in London for a few hours, and they gave me permission to go out and meet him. I gave him a check. I said, “This is for you,” and also the dollar from the Rebbe, the one I’d gotten from Binyamin. Wow. When you arrived in Eretz Yisroel, was there—apart from the famous letter—any other personal attention? Apart from the famous letter, the letter to the shluchim dated 25 Shvat 5739. Yes. Apart from that, was there any personal attention connected with your trip? Personal attention? What do you mean by personal attention? Everyone had his own personal matters. The fact was that the Rebbe hadn’t given us permission to travel. Back. To come back. Then, when a shidduch was suggested for Sholom Duchman with a young woman from Crown Heights, the Rebbe agreed to the shidduch. They asked the Rebbe whether he should travel to meet her. Come here to meet her. The Rebbe said she should travel there. As for the wedding, the Rebbe said yes, it should be held where the bride was. So the French fellows came with him—Avraham Boruch Gurevitch, Yitzchak Goldberg and [unclear], Yitzchok Gurevitch, yes. They came because they had to arrange their papers. No. They didn’t have citizenship, because in France they weren’t French citizens. Um. And they were in the middle of that. When they traveled, the Rebbe told them to return, and they too received, along with everyone else, the Likkutei Sichos and the envelope. They gained twice over. Meaning, when had they actually arrived—in 5738? They arrived in 5736. No, they were part of the 5736 group. And they came back around 5738. They arrived in 5737. Ah, Sholom Duchman’s wedding was in 5738. His wedding was on 4 Adar I 5738. Yes. Ah, so they came and received it again together with you. Yes.

1:49:08 Speaker 2 The French fellows who went in 5736. Yes, they too. In other words, people who went in 5736 and came to the Rebbe now, the Rebbe told them— And Lishitzky [?], was Lishitzky [?] there too? Oh, no, you’re talking about the bochurim. Not necessarily. Yes, these were bochurim. Yes. Lishitzky [?] went as a married man. Lishitzky [?] had been there long before that. He’d already been in New York for many years before— Before the group, then. So they received Likkutei Sichos volume 11 twice as well. Volume 11 and volume 10. Yes. By the way, I’m just saying—this doesn’t have to go in the podcast. It’s interesting: in 5736 they left on 11 Shvat, right? Yes. The Rebbe distributed Likkutei Sichos volume 11. Yes. And there was also the Rebbe’s eleven—eleven, wasn’t there? Eleven for Jerusalem. Yes. There were a lot of elevens here. Yes. Meaning, it may be connected with the matter of [unclear] that the Rebbe mentioned. Anything is possible. With this whole shlichus, there were things the Rebbe—as we said at the beginning—the Rebbe conquered Eretz Yisroel with it. Right. So when did you next come...? Now, ah, moving on. In other words, the Rebbe didn’t give permission to travel. You went to Jerusalem, right? You were at—where did you sleep? Tzemach Tzedek? Yes, Tzemach Tzedek, yes. Where did you sleep? At Toras Emes. The Rebbe also said that there, at Toras Emes, and here there would be— Toras Emes was already on Yirmiyahu Street. What? Yes. Toras Emes was already on Yirmiyahu Street. Yes. So in the morning we’d get up for seder Chassidus. A taxi would take us to Tzemach Tzedek, and there we had seder Chassidus, Shacharis, breakfast, seder nigleh, and a second seder nigleh. After the second seder nigleh we’d go back, and the evening seder Chassidus was at Toras Emes. That was the schedule, and on Shabbos we were at Toras

1:50:49 Speaker 2 Emes. Every Shabbos I went to Tzemach Tzedek. I went to Tzemach Tzedek. At the time I had this desire to go to the Kosel Hama’aravi, to ask for a bracha at the Rebbe’s table. That was—[unclear]. I’ll tell you something very interesting too. The Rebbe had told us that when we got there—so I said to the fellows, “[unclear]. Let’s go straight to the Kosel Hama’aravi. Let’s go to the Kosel now.” They said, “Why? What for? We can do that tomorrow.” They looked at me like, “Only you have to [unclear].” But that didn’t speak to me at all. I wanted to go. That was the place to ask for a bracha at the Rebbe’s table. Fine, all right. No, not then. It had just come out of my mouth. The moment we arrived at Toras Emes, we started getting off the bus. Chanoch ran over and told us, “Don’t get off!” The Rebbe had said to go straight to the Kosel Hama’aravi. That’s what Chanoch said. Yes. So we went to the Kosel Hama’aravi. Your feeling had been confirmed. I don’t know how you’d put it, but that’s how it happened. So I would go to Tzemach Tzedek. I regularly davened at Tzemach Tzedek; every Shabbos I davened there. Afterward I’d walk all those steps and then go up through the market. Fine, but that was Shabbos. I mean, officially, Friday night the seder was at Toras Emes. When did you next travel to the Rebbe? Now, by Elul we were constantly looking for a way. Really, the longing began the moment we got here. And how do you deal with that longing for the Rebbe? It was very hard then. In the summer we decided to bring

1:52:49 Speaker 2 Freidin [?] to show us a film of the Rebbe from Tishrei, so we could see the Rebbe not just in photographs but moving, alive. It cost money, so we advertised it, and the hall at Toras Emes was full. All kinds of people came, paid and went in. So we had that. Then Elul came, and I thought—wait, every Motzaei Shabbos we’d get together to hear what had happened on Shabbos. Yes, meaning that every Motzaei Shabbos we heard the farbrengen. Every Motzaei Shabbos. That was one of the things we gained: we heard almost every farbrengen. We missed the one on Acharon Shel Pesach, we missed Erev Shavuos and we missed Shavuos. But apart from that, we heard almost every farbrengen. Around Elul I thought I’d try writing to the Rebbe. I wrote that every year since my mother passed away, I had gone to the Ohel on her yahrtzeit. As a bochur, I’d travel to the Ohel. It wasn’t like today, when you stand on a corner looking for a ride. Today you don’t even need rides. Boruch Hashem, there are buses. Back then I’d take the subway, which took about two and a half hours. Then I had to walk for about half an hour. But I did it every year; going on the yahrtzeit was important to me. In other words, you would set out early and get there; you were already familiar with the trip. Yes. No, it wasn’t Elul—it was actually in the summer. So—yes. So I wrote this to the Rebbe and said that I wanted to travel for the yahrtzeit. I was wondering whether I could come this year. The Rebbe put a large question mark on the note and wrote, “Not advisable.” Not advisable. So, ah—a question mark. That’s what Binyamin told me. The Rebbe put a question mark on the note and wrote, “Not…”

1:54:29 Speaker 2 It was worthwhile. And afterward, in [unclear], I became a chosson, and I understood that yechidus was out of the question—I wouldn’t be able to go in for yechidus. So I suggested to my bride that she travel. There was also a wedding in her family then, so she could travel and go in for yechidus on our behalf. And that’s what happened. She traveled and brought in a note from me as well. The Rebbe gave a blessing, but it still bothered me that I wouldn’t be able to daven from the Rebbe’s siddur. So I wrote to the Rebbe and sent the note with her. I sent the note to [unclear]. In other words, I wanted to daven from the Rebbe’s siddur. Why not? Why couldn’t I? The response to that note was a general one for all the shluchim: it was discussed in Shulchan Aruch, and the whole matter belonged with Rabbi Moshe. As you know, the Rebbe had spoken about wasting money on overseas trips for weddings—overseas trips for weddings, flights, and trips to Eretz Yisroel. If there were problems with the schedule, one needed to ask a rav. That was the Rebbe’s answer. Then one shliach immediately took his family, [unclear], and traveled. In other words, he arrived before 17 Nissan, when the Rebbe had already released everyone. Yes, and when he arrived, the first person who met him—I don’t know whether it was [unclear] or [unclear]—asked, “What are you doing here?” So [unclear] said he had come to the Rebbe for Pesach. “Now you’re coming for Pesach, before the seventeenth? What about matzah? What about [unclear]?” And [unclear] came down on him. Druskin came down on him, and they understood that this wasn’t wanted. I had already said that I was planning to travel to London on Erev Pesach, be with my father for the Seder, and then travel to the Rebbe and return after Pesach. In other words, it was during—yes, that’s right—bein hazmanim. And they began to—

1:56:30 Speaker 2 They began trying to persuade me: “You can see that the Rebbe isn’t pleased with this.” I said, “The Rebbe isn’t pleased? What isn’t the Rebbe pleased with? The Rebbe isn’t pleased when people arrive three weeks early, but I don’t see that here.” And I did travel. When I arrived, [unclear] asked me how long I had come for. I told him, “Until [unclear].” Fine. Dovid Druskin asked me too. It all went smoothly, without any problems, and I had the merit of receiving the siddur from the Rebbe on [unclear]. A siddur for...? For the wedding, before—when did you get married? I got married on 7 Tammuz. Ah, and she traveled abroad— She traveled in Adar. Why so long beforehand? Why? Why did she—why was the wedding so much later? No, why did she travel abroad— No, she traveled for her brother’s wedding. Ah, I understand. So she traveled abroad as a bride-to-be. As a bride-to-be, because she was there in [unclear]. Mm-hm. In the end she traveled; we used to travel about twice a year. And then— I understand. So she traveled, and then you traveled on [unclear] and received the siddur— From the Rebbe. As a chosson. As a chosson, and I came back here. Yes. You came back to Eretz Yisroel. Yes. The wedding was in Eretz Yisroel, and— Yes. When did this whole subject of [unclear], of coming to [unclear], begin? It began—actually, as soon as they started in the Rebbe’s office, then... In the mems, no—my [unclear] was in Tzfas. And afterward, did you come together, or had the Rebbe not given an answer about coming? Tishrei, that very Tishrei. Ah, so when did you get married? You came that very Tishrei? Yes. It wasn’t planned. So what— It simply wasn’t planned. I hadn’t thought about it. In the end, she had been there in Adar. Mm-hm. I was now, in the end, [unclear], but Rabbi Yisroel Hoffman, a"h, lived here among us in Kfar Chabad Bet, and he [unclear]—

1:58:16 Speaker 2 —in a chassidisher way. He started taking action and speaking to the Rebbe. No, he started talking about what this was. I came home and said, “That’s it, we’re going.” And...? We went. We traveled for 13 Tishrei because she was a teacher, a homeroom teacher, so we couldn’t travel earlier. The following year we traveled for 6 Tishrei because school finished earlier. In 5741. Were you abroad in 5740? Why? After [unclear], I had an entirely different view of the Rebbe’s time. In 5740 there was a choice, wasn’t there? There are different approaches. Zalman Gurary would argue [unclear]—that the Rebbe gives only one. I actually told someone this yesterday too. Rabbi Kramer of Montreal was once with the Rebbe on Pesach [unclear], and at a meal after Pesach [unclear], the Rebbe turned to him and said, “Come in to see me after Yom Tov.” All right, he heard him. A few days after Yom Tov, he still hadn’t gone in. The Rebbe met him—Rabbi Sholom met him—and asked, “[Unclear], were you with the Rebbe?” He said, “No.” “Why not?” “I saw that the Rebbe was so tired and weak, and I didn’t want to disturb him.” So the Rebbe said, “[Unclear].” How would you translate that? I don’t— You don’t need to spare the Rebbe. You don’t need to hold back, something like that. Hold back. Hold back. So that’s what our Rebbe told him about the previous Rebbe. Yes. All right, so he went in. He went in to the previous Rebbe. A few years later he came from Montreal to see the Rebbe, and there was some problem for which he very much wanted the Rebbe’s blessing, for the Rebbe to take care of it. I don’t remember the exact words; I heard the story from him. So he kept pressing—

2:00:17 Speaker 2 —the Rebbe, and the Rebbe said to him, “What do you want from me? Why are you pressing me?” He told the Rebbe, “But I heard from the Rebbe that one shouldn’t hold back with a Rebbe.” The Rebbe said to him, “But one doesn’t need to be extra scrupulous about it.” One doesn’t need to be extra scrupulous. So you didn’t go in for yechidus? No. I received all the blessings without going in. I have no doubt about that. And when did you begin working with Machon Levi Yitzchak? Immediately. That’s another story. It was printed recently in one of the volumes of letters that came out. I wrote—I told you, in this podcast nothing is known. As soon as I became a chosson, my grandfather pressed me about Machon Levi Yitzchak, because he had taken responsibility for it after his brother-in-law passed away, after the rabbi passed away. A week before the accident, he had told him—there were stories behind the scenes—“I ask you to make sure this continues.” And then suddenly what happened, happened. So my grandfather wrote to the Rebbe. In fact, the children of Rabbi [unclear] had asked him to keep it going, and they funded it. He asked the Rebbe, and the Rebbe answered that if they would indeed fund it, he should take charge. That was in 5735, and I arrived—I mean, the end of 5734. It was in Tammuz 5735, and I arrived in 5738 and became a chosson. So he wanted me to take charge of it, because it was, how do you say, struggling. They needed someone to run it, someone to strengthen it, someone who... I wasn’t interested. But what happened? I wrote to the Rebbe. He had asked me, “Write to the Rebbe, write to the Rebbe, ask.” I didn’t receive an answer, so I understood that the Rebbe didn’t agree. In other words—

2:02:02 Speaker 2 —that was how I interpreted it. Afterward, Yisroel Leibov began looking for new people for Tzach, a new leadership for Tzach. After the Rebbe sent the letter in 5739 saying that the shluchim were not meant to remain here, and so on, he came to Tzfas and wanted to start speaking with shluchim about joining it. Tzach. Yes. One of the shluchim was Greisman. He spoke to him, and Greisman said he was willing to consider it on condition that I agreed too, that he speak to me and get my agreement as well. So he came to speak to me. In Jerusalem. Yes. He met me in Kfar Chabad. I no longer remember whether he came to Jerusalem or not. I heard the proposal and decided that I would soon be traveling to the Rebbe, so I would ask Rabbi Hodakov how to approach these matters. I went and spoke with Rabbi Hodakov. Rabbi Hodakov said, “Write to the Rebbe, but if you have more than one proposal, write to the Rebbe about all the proposals you have.” He explained it: if you write one proposal and the Rebbe doesn’t agree, the Rebbe will tell you no, and then you have to ask again. Write about all of them, and then [unclear]. So I wrote about both Machon Levi Yitzchak and Tzach. Regarding Machon Levi Yitzchak, I wrote that I had already written about it in Teves, but the Rebbe hadn’t answered, so I assumed the answer was no, and therefore I was asking about Tzach. This was when you traveled for Pesach 5739? Yes. And the Rebbe answered the part where I wrote that I hadn’t received an answer and had interpreted that to mean no. The Rebbe said, “That’s not so; its turn to be answered had not yet come.” Its turn to be answered had not yet come. Yes. That’s what the Rebbe—

2:03:50 Speaker 2 He wrote: “And if it seems that he is capable of it—but priority...” “If it seems that he is capable of it.” Then I got to page 98, and the Rebbe wrote again: “And if it seems that he is capable of it, but priority goes to Rashak, with whom Rabbeinu spoke.” Rashak is an acronym for Shmuel Berzenger. Shmuel Weizman. But the Rebbe wrote “Rashak.” So that was the... No, not that. Which book was it? He printed it. How do I remember? He printed HaMaayan, HaMaayan with the [unclear]. He printed it. All right. I have the book. Anyway, “priority goes to Rashak, with whom Rabbeinu spoke.” Rabbeinu, yes. So my grandfather immediately understood that the Rebbe was hinting here that he should go—and that he should make an effort. That is what the Rebbe wrote. I came back here, and Yisroel Lieberov said that he already had a full board, because this one had asked and that one had asked. That was fine, okay. So I went in the direction of Machon Levi Yitzchak, and then I wrote to the Rebbe and received approval. Our long conversation with Rabbi Lieberov has ended, but it is far from complete. We really could listen for many more hours. What we got was only a taste of life—real life in the Rebbe’s presence at 770. With Hashem’s help, very soon we will all see the Rebbe. That is what we can all wish for and long for, very soon. Then we will see eye to eye, in a living way. May you all have good news, salvation and comfort. We will just note again that this episode was dedicated and sponsored in the merit of one of the Rebbe’s shluchim in Europe, who wishes to remain anonymous; for the success of the shlichus of all the Rebbe’s shluchim, wherever they may be; to prepare the world to greet Moshiach Tzidkeinu; and in the merit of his family and household, may they live and be blessed with every good thing. And may we all see the Rebbe immediately, right now. Good news. Much success.