'Lehisraanen' Episode Two: Rabbi Chaim Sholom Segal, Part B

00:00 Speaker 1 Hello, and welcome to Lehisraanen, the podcast that brings the vitality of Beis Chayeinu. This is our second episode. In the previous episode, we heard from the Rebbe’s shliach, Rabbi Chaim Shalom Segal of Afula, about his special experience of everyday life as a bochur in the Rebbe’s court. In this episode, we’ll hear about—and relive with him—the special moments he experienced and witnessed, and the special yechidus he had with the Rebbe. You can listen to the podcast on podcast platforms, YouTube, Drive, and through our channel and WhatsApp group. Lehisraanen. The podcast is presented by Rabbi Nachum Goldschmid and produced by Aharon Freiman. Thank you very much, and enjoy listening. Lehisraanen.

00:34 Speaker 2 He would immediately grab his coat and hat—the hat—and right away, with the wine. This was one of the times I saw that the window was open; there was air coming in. I don’t know how—I was learning downstairs, after all. That’s interesting too. Instead of learning upstairs, or maybe there was no room. To this day I have no explanation for how I agreed to learn with Itche Leritz [?], or by the rabbi’s bimah. Half the hall—Itche Leritz [?] Port was the mashgiach for nigleh. So beneath the bimah, there were bochurim. It got dark right away. There were no minyanim, no houses. I’m telling you, the Rashag’s mother had just passed away, so he was serving as chazzan, serving as chazzan.

01:20 Speaker 1 For...

01:21 Speaker 2 So, you see, [unclear]. He sits down and waits; he forgot he was the chazzan. After that, he would go looking for a minyan for Minchah altogether. So he’d walk around like that. This was his way of saying it when he came over to me: “Come, come.” As far as I remember: “You’re dancing with my brother-in-law.” That was how he put it. By the way, as for his relationship with the Rebbe: when the Rebbe came in, he had his own table there. The Rebbe wouldn’t sit down until he saw that the Rashag...

01:59 Speaker 1 Jokingly?

02:00 Speaker 2 No, this was during davening. There was the Rebbe’s table here, and his over here. The table was there with a chair.

02:07 Speaker 1 A table.

02:08 Speaker 2 No, no, I’m talking about davening. Davening downstairs.

02:10 Speaker 1 Downstairs.

02:11 Speaker 2 How far?

02:11 Speaker 1 He was between the chazzan...

02:12 Speaker 2 Upstairs or not? He was never there.

02:13 Speaker 1 Upstairs, he wasn’t there.

02:14 Speaker 2 Right, when it was downstairs, then he...

02:16 Speaker 1 Between the chazzan and the Rebbe’s bimah.

02:18 Speaker 2 The Rebbe would notice, look to see whether everything was all right. The fellows understood if the rabbi was missing a siddur or needed something. No—who used to attend to him? I don’t remember.

02:28 Speaker 1 If it was...

02:29 Speaker 2 Anyway, he had a few people. Kamenitz would sit with him and bring him seforim. Yossele was there—he’d be there all night, drawing all sorts of things out of him. His face shone, no question about it. But the Rebbe, very discreetly, would also look to see that he was sitting comfortably in his place, that no one was pushing him, and so on.

02:55 Speaker 1 So that was really where you sat. Just out of curiosity, after Minchah until late at night, the Rebbe would simply be sitting in his room while you were learning in the small zal?

03:04 Speaker 2 But I wasn’t in the small zal. I was...

03:06 Speaker 1 Learning in the room by the small zal.

03:07 Speaker 2 Learning, with the door closed so people wouldn’t see who came in and so on. Yes, I was learning downstairs. No, you don’t know—but I don’t know how I got upstairs. Suddenly I saw, or perhaps I went outside and saw, that the Rebbe’s window was closed. The air conditioner ran twenty-four hours a day, after all. The Rebbe was terribly hot, quite simply. He needed it all the time. Then he opened the window. So I went over. I saw the Rebbe, wearing his glasses, with a pile of open seforim. He was standing like this, like some rosh yeshivah.

03:48 Speaker 1 The audience can’t see, so I’ll explain. He was simply turning pages, reading.

03:50 Speaker 2 Reading.

03:51 Speaker 1 And putting a sefer aside.

03:52 Speaker 2 Putting it aside. He was so deeply absorbed, his forehead raised like this. Suddenly you see the Rebbe looking at his tzitzis. I saw that the tzitzis weren’t together: one here and one there, one here and one there, as though they were separated. Amazing, that too. That made an impression on me as well. Later on I looked again.

04:14 Speaker 1 The two strings—

04:16 Speaker 2 They weren’t joined.

04:17 Speaker 1 The two strings weren’t right next to each other.

04:18 Speaker 2 Not next to each other at all, on that side.

04:21 Speaker 1 You understand, the Rebbe was simply standing there, outside—

04:23 Speaker 2 You could see his face. When we would go in—when was it? You had nothing else to look at. People went in for yechidus after twelve, at two in the morning, and we’d sit for two hours and hear the shouting and [unclear] below us, right there. The Rebbe heard everything.

04:37 Speaker 1 Yes.

04:38 Speaker 2 And [unclear]—what was he shouting? “Shh!” It was quiet; you could really hear what happened with each person. So Kamcha [?] came out after two and a half hours. You know, everyone was asking, “Well, what did the rabbi say?” He said, “After those two hours I was with the Rebbe, I need two days now to sort things out. What did the Rebbe want from me? What does the Rebbe want from me? How do I put it into practice?”

05:06 Speaker 1 So it actually began with a Jew.

05:08 Speaker 2 Oh! Why? Why? Why? Oh! During the broadcast, that was a two-and-a-half-hour sicha on the whole subject, the issues concerning non-Jews and Jews. There was silence during the broadcast. That broadcast lasted eight—six or eight hours.

05:29 Speaker 1 They brought out all the—

05:29 Speaker 2 Seven laws.

05:30 Speaker 1 They brought out the non-Jews.

05:32 Speaker 2 [unclear] was sitting there; it wasn’t good, they wouldn’t work late. So it was as though they wanted to get the Rebbe off the loudspeaker. It was an incredible, incredible experience. At first, during the first broadcast, they told me that if you stand next to it, it makes noise. You have to do something when you connect it. You connected it to the yeshivah’s public phone so there’d be a line, but then—oops. I don’t know who said it: make a short in the phase, put one wire against another, and then it wouldn’t make noise. Otherwise there was feedback, and you couldn’t hear well. Yes, whoever built the amplifiers did it himself, bli ayin hara, with that tape recorder. The hundred-and... what was that Sony model called? They used to buy it in New York for a hundred and five dollars. That was it. It was an experience for a bochur. You lived with Minchah, with Maariv, with the answers, with the notes, with the... Of course, you had to. Some—some—some learned. No question about it. Some made use of the—

06:45 Speaker 1 It was like—

06:46 Speaker 2 Amazing friendships. No question about it. There were exams, and all the roshei yeshivah and the administration would go in to the Rebbe’s room on Rosh Chodesh. A report on every bochur.

06:58 Speaker 1 Every bochur?

07:01 Speaker 2 Especially those in the kvutzah.

07:02 Speaker 1 What about the connection with Rabbi Matit [?]?

07:03 Speaker 2 I don’t have...

07:03 Speaker 1 Rabbi Dovid?

07:04 Speaker 2 Drizin, Marozov. Who else? How would I know who else?

07:11 Speaker 1 Shmuel.

07:12 Speaker 2 Huh? Who else could have been there? Springer.

07:18 Speaker 1 Rabbi Shmuel?

07:19 Speaker 2 Shmuel Witman. That was Shmuel. I had the—

07:22 Speaker 1 You didn’t have a connection with him?

07:23 Speaker 2 No. He would teach Tanya. Five bochurim learned there.

07:26 Speaker 1 No, the older bochurim.

07:28 Speaker 2 The older ones, yes.

07:29 Speaker 1 No, did he have a connection with him?

07:30 Speaker 2 They didn’t understand the way he spoke. It was very hard to understand his... But I remember the Rebbe on 13 Nissan, or on the day [unclear]. Inside his siddur he had twenty dollars. After Maariv, he would give it out. He would lead the davening, and give out from the Strauss packets—from the Strauss packets. Inside the siddur were the rubber bands. One of the amazing things was that when the Rebbe came in for davening on Friday night, the Likkutei Sichos booklet was inside his siddur. Who had prepared the booklet? Who had brought it? He’d come with the siddur and begin davening Minchah. As soon as he began “Chonen...” [unclear]. After that, at Krias Shema and so on, he did daven. Yes, I saw that. There, he would take out the sicha. This was the sicha. He’d read to the end.

08:31 Speaker 3 The title page?

08:32 Speaker 2 Yes, that’s it. He would do this, all the way to the end.

08:38 Speaker 3 With his finger.

08:39 Speaker 2 Like this, yes.

08:40 Speaker 3 You can’t see me, so I’m explaining.

08:42 Speaker 2 Like this.

08:43 Speaker 3 He’d run his finger along it.

08:44 Speaker 2 Like this, over the entire sicha, over the entire—

08:46 Speaker 3 The whole booklet.

08:47 Speaker 2 The front, the front of the sicha, before that. Then suddenly he’d start like this. After all, you’re learning [unclear]—

08:54 Speaker 3 The foreword, you mean?

08:55 Speaker 2 Yes, all the...

08:56 Speaker 3 First the title page.

08:58 Speaker 2 Before the foreword. The title page and the page after it, and then what’s in the—

09:01 Speaker 3 Yes.

09:02 Speaker 2 On the side, and sometimes at the bottom—he would look over everything. Only after that would he read the foreword, open the sicha, and suddenly begin studying the sicha in depth.

09:12 Speaker 3 With his hand on his head.

09:13 Speaker 2 You know, yes, like this.

09:16 Speaker 3 Come, come, let’s look at a sicha. Every Shabbos.

09:19 Speaker 2 Yes, that was the routine. With the rubber bands, when he stood during Kaddish, you would sometimes see him do this or this, almost as though he were playing an instrument. His gaze would be fixed on a particular spot, but he’d move his finger like this, very gently.

09:37 Speaker 3 On the rubber bands. They weren’t singing “Chavivi” yet.

09:41 Speaker 2 Which one? “Chavivi li keras karmi” [?].

09:44 Speaker 3 No, that’s when the Rebbe was chazzan. But when someone else was chazzan, he didn’t, didn’t sing it.

09:47 Speaker 2 No, no, it wasn’t sung. What are you talking about? “Chavivi” [unclear], that’s with the apples. It happens. They didn’t sing it while he was reading the booklet.

09:57 Speaker 3 And then, after that?

09:58 Speaker 2 When the Rebbe davened himself, well, I can’t really testify to it anymore. I don’t think so, no.

10:02 Speaker 3 So after that, on Friday night, the Rebbe would go up to his room—or he wouldn’t go up to his room?

10:05 Speaker 2 It took at least an hour, an hour and a half.

10:08 Speaker 3 You’d be asleep.

10:10 Speaker 2 No, I wasn’t there. When the Rebbe went to the dining room—if it was before that, then yes, I would stay and hand them the microphone, or whatever it was then. But the Rebbe would stay at least an hour each time. Afterward we would accompany him. I didn’t run to do that; I wasn’t one of those eager to accompany him. No, I don’t know why. That’s just how it was. There were Kaddishes.

10:32 Speaker 3 Then came the Lag BaOmer 5730 parade.

10:35 Speaker 2 The 5730 parade.

10:36 Speaker 3 Lag BaOmer.

10:39 Speaker 2 Yes. Of course, the weather was very, very wintry, and Lindsay arrived. Lindsay was the mayor, or the… yes, I think he was mayor then. There were clouds that looked as though they were just waiting to… And the Rebbe was standing there, making this motion with his hand.

11:03 Speaker 3 They’re going to dance.

11:04 Speaker 2 After the speeches. The Rebbe said in English, “They’ve postponed it until tomorrow.”

11:09 Speaker 3 That’s what the Rebbe told him? “They’ve postponed it. They’ve postponed it until tomorrow.”

11:12 Speaker 2 Yes, and that’s how it was. As soon as the parade ended—or later that day—it poured. But during the parade itself, not a drop of rain. What happened once it ended? No, it went between the drops.

11:23 Speaker 3 Yes.

11:23 Speaker 2 Rabbi [unclear]—postponed.

11:25 Speaker 3 Postponed.

11:27 Speaker 2 And the way they arranged it around the… Ah, you remember how he was then. He stood on the same platform as the Rebbe, but had a lectern at the side. The Rebbe would move over a little. I still remember how, a minute before the Rebbe would come out, I would lift and bring [unclear]. There was [unclear], but in a different form. He would come out like that, wearing his gartel. I carried that lectern then; it had to be set up. I helped with it. He stood like this. Then they included the Rebbe’s newly published likkut in the sichos. Everyone sang and danced. We danced there near the Rebbe because the likkut had come out. Afterward the Rebbe asked who—and there, too, he asked in the room that night—“Where did this song come from?”

12:22 Speaker 3 Lag BaOmer.

12:23 Speaker 2 By Lag BaOmer it was already… The Rebbe immediately…

12:27 Speaker 3 He sensed that it was—

12:28 Speaker 2 He sensed there was something to it. Take it from me for a moment. Wow. And Lag BaOmer.

12:35 Speaker 3 That was actually the group from 15 Shvat. When did [unclear] return? Right after…

12:40 Speaker 2 The end of Nissan.

12:41 Speaker 3 They returned at the end of Nissan.

12:42 Speaker 2 And then you started—

12:42 Speaker 3 And then you started singing it.

12:44 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. That’s when we started singing it. So by Lag BaOmer it was already part of what was going on. Now, it was actually Mordechai Ben David who performed it. He sang it.

12:57 Speaker 3 The whole 15 Shvat?

12:58 Speaker 2 Yes, he was in the park on 15 Shvat. They brought him, and the Rebbe came out while he was still performing. So the Rebbe told Leibel to tell him, “I have a long day today, with a lot of work. If he could shorten it…” So he would know that…

13:25 Speaker 3 So what happened? When they brought him again on the thirteenth, he cut it short too?

13:27 Speaker 2 Yes, he cut it short.

13:28 Speaker 3 So by Lag BaOmer already—

13:29 Speaker 2 Yes.

13:30 Speaker 3 They had begun to understand by then that—

13:32 Speaker 2 The Rebbe wasn’t—

13:32 Speaker 3 Looking for concerts.

13:33 Speaker 2 Yes, exactly. He wasn’t looking for that. And that’s how things went. So that was the first time. No, there had been one in 5727, [unclear]. You could see from it the Rebbe’s attitude toward—

13:46 Speaker 3 Children.

13:46 Speaker 2 Children. It was something, really something. His whole face… The Rebbe had that beard, and his face looked broad; it wasn’t so gray. He was standing behind the Rebbe, and the Rebbe gestured to him with his hand like this: “Go!” Then suddenly they came out to the park, and the Rebbe’s car arrived. J.J. was about to begin speaking there. So the Rebbe waited at the entrance until he finished speaking. The Rebbe listened; he didn’t go in.

14:17 Speaker 3 It was a surprise when the Rebbe arrived.

14:18 Speaker 2 Yes, that’s right, I think. They had made such an effort. There had been talk that there needed to be enough children, and they began turning the world upside down to bring children, but they hadn’t done enough. The Rebbe had a visit somewhere; it was pretty [unclear]. Afterward, boruch Hashem, the results… The Rebbe was pleased with how things were conducted, with the games. Then suddenly the Rebbe arrived, on his way to the Ohel.

14:44 Speaker 3 Yes.

14:44 Speaker 2 So he sat in the front, sat in the front.

14:47 Speaker 3 The way he would ride—

14:48 Speaker 2 In the front.

14:50 Speaker 3 And from then on it became the regular practice: each time he drove by [unclear] and through the park.

14:54 Speaker 2 Ah, wait. After that there was another time in the park.

14:58 Speaker 3 Yes.

14:58 Speaker 2 One time—well, one time there was no parade at all.

15:01 Speaker 3 Lag BaOmer.

15:02 Speaker 2 Oh, the Rebbe was… [unclear]… He was beside himself. He hardly ate. His conduct was very, very… He took it very, very seriously. No, you could see it.

15:22 Speaker 3 You can see in—

15:23 Speaker 2 I didn’t know what the Rebbe was feeling. But here you could sense something beyond comprehension. She was occupied with it, she, she… I have a desire that they should keep me [unclear].

15:36 Speaker 3 Yes.

15:36 Speaker 2 That’s a reminder, that’s clear. Living with the Rebbe as part of a group—it, it—how do you put it?

15:47 Speaker 3 It makes you into a different person, into—

15:49 Speaker 2 You’re in your own world. You’re ready to give up a great many things in the world for the sake of the group. Every day, too, you were immersed in that life. Even as bochurim, you constantly saw the secretaries coming out with letters from the Rebbe, going in again. This secretary, then the other secretary. Yes, had an answer come out or not? You really lived it. But people learned; they sat through seder. You learned Chassidus in the morning, and then the whole day…

16:15 Speaker 3 The secretaries didn’t go in during the day. They went in after davening, didn’t they?

16:19 Speaker 2 To the Rebbe? No, during the day as well.

16:21 Speaker 3 Yes.

16:22 Speaker 2 Yes, there was an order to it. They had their own schedule. Each day had its schedule. Leibel was there at first; he would go to his office with—

16:31 Speaker 3 Bindings.

16:31 Speaker 2 With books, with bindings. He had set times. Chodakov would sometimes sit there too. There was a special place for notes for Chodakov, and there were notes for the secretary.

16:41 Speaker 3 Chodakov sometimes sat in the secretary’s room?

16:43 Speaker 2 Yes. After davening, with the tefillin, he would take them out there. But even if you wanted to approach him and speak to him—if you wanted to speak to him at all—you had to speak to his secretary, [unclear], and make an appointment. He would speak, but he was brief. Shh.

17:01 Speaker 3 Did he have any connection with the bochurim?

17:04 Speaker 2 No. You saw him and you were afraid. You were careful. You knew: “An eye sees and an ear hears.” You couldn’t know where it might get to. Not at all. I’m talking about [unclear]. You saw him. But the connection to the Rebbe—that was clear: the farbrengens, and everyone waited for his day, the day of his yechidus. That was—

17:28 Speaker 3 Which was his birthday.

17:29 Speaker 2 Yes, or close to his birthday. But each person had one. At every yechidus, the families with children went in first, then the chassanim and kallos [?], then the young married men, then the older people. It was organized. The Rebbe had a list and would check people off. It was coordinated with the—

17:48 Speaker 3 In other words, the Rebbe had a list of everyone who was supposed to go in that evening.

17:51 Speaker 2 Yes, there was a sheet. I didn’t see him doing it, but he would check people off. The Rebbe would start yechidus early, and then around Maariv he would come out with bindings. You could see he was drenched in sweat.

18:10 Speaker 3 Between the yechiduyos—in the middle of yechidus.

18:11 Speaker 2 In the middle of yechidus, the strain was hard.

18:13 Speaker 3 Where was Maariv?

18:14 Speaker 2 Upstairs.

18:14 Speaker 3 In the zal, or—

18:15 Speaker 2 In the zal, the upstairs zal. By twelve, eleven, or ten, he would be completely drenched, but you could see it. You could see it in his eyes. Even when you saw him going home toward morning, you could see the strain on him. He always wore a coat, a coat, even [unclear]. Because we got involved… From what we heard, [unclear]. People would say that the children weren’t interested in all of that. But if you were interested, you’d watch who came out. You wouldn’t go up to some ordinary young man coming out and ask him what happened. But an askan, a rabbi—there were people from all over the world all the time. Then with the chassanim and kallos [?], one said this, another said that. It really was—

19:05 Speaker 3 About how long would an average young married man spend in yechidus?

19:08 Speaker 2 Two minutes. What? A bochur, though—

19:15 Speaker 3 Really, he didn’t have… Tell me, how long for a bochur?

19:18 Speaker 2 Also very, very short. Mine was five minutes. That was—

19:22 Speaker 3 We’ll get to your yechidus in a moment. But for a bochur going in for his birthday?

19:26 Speaker 2 Two minutes.

19:27 Speaker 3 Two minutes.

19:27 Speaker 2 The Rebbe would read the note, [unclear]. It was something. It was rare for the Rebbe to take longer. Even with chassanim and kallos [?], there was [unclear].

19:37 Speaker 3 About how many people would go in on a night of yechidus?

19:40 Speaker 2 Several hundred.

19:40 Speaker 3 Several hundred, three times a week.

19:43 Speaker 2 Twice.

19:43 Speaker 3 Twice.

19:44 Speaker 2 In my time—

19:44 Speaker 3 Sunday and Tuesday.

19:45 Speaker 2 Usually it went on all night, from eight or seven until eight in the morning, sometimes until ten. On 18 Kislev… Ordinarily it lasted until five or six in the morning.

19:56 Speaker 3 Sunday and Tuesday.

19:56 Speaker 2 Sunday and Tuesday—Sunday and Thursday.

19:59 Speaker 3 Thursday too.

20:00 Speaker 2 Yes, Sunday and Thursday. Yes. That’s how it was. Now, before yechidus, you would see that the lamp in the Rebbe’s room was a Shabbos lamp. In my innocence, I went over to Leibel and said, “Look, if there’s some kind of spiritual preparation, it’s like the light of Shabbos before he receives people for yechidus.” He laughed at me. It was very simple: the Rebbe had worked all day. He would just lower his head onto the desk and rest for about half an hour, thirty minutes.

20:45 Speaker 4 When?

20:46 Speaker 2 Before.

20:47 Speaker 4 Before yechidus, the Rebbe would lower his head onto his arms by his desk and rest.

20:52 Speaker 2 After 5739 there was already a bed, so it was different. And after a few months, the whole bed was covered with…

21:01 Speaker 4 Books and notes.

21:02 Speaker 2 He would pass by the side. He could have gone in if he wanted to, but that lamp was outside too. I don’t know, but to learn—that was the whole thing. He would come in with a sefer in his hand. They say that all the sefarim have the Rebbe’s notes in them. They still haven’t opened them up to this day. There are sefarim all over the room. You can see it’s preserved; it’s intact. There’s an actual Shas there, and all kinds of other sefarim too.

21:27 Speaker 4 There are many accounts from people who saw, several times afterward, that the Rebbe went straight to those sefarim.

21:34 Speaker 2 Motzaei Yom Kippur. I don’t remember whether it was in [unclear]. The Rebbe went after Yom Kippur, after the [unclear]. They were waiting for Kiddush Levanah. Right away, he opened a Gemara [unclear].

21:49 Speaker 4 Before Kiddush Levanah?

21:50 Speaker 2 Kiddush Levanah.

21:50 Speaker 4 You saw that?

21:51 Speaker 2 No. Afterward, Leibel came out and told it that way.

21:54 Speaker 4 He told the story.

21:54 Speaker 2 That’s how he put it. The Rebbe was delayed for five or ten minutes, but yes, the Rebbe simply went straight over.

22:01 Speaker 4 To a Gemara.

22:01 Speaker 2 A Gemara.

22:04 Speaker 4 In the years you were there.

22:05 Speaker 2 Yes, through ’29, yes. Not in ’31.

22:08 Speaker 4 We’ll still get to Tishrei ’31, and to yechidus too—we’re not skipping that. So it was summer, and the bochurim...

22:16 Speaker 2 It really was empty, completely empty. Not just a little empty. Even at the Rebbe’s minyan, almost everyone was from out of town, more or less. Yes, yes, the fellows made a point of davening with the Rebbe. Of course. And then you come to a farbrengen for the first time—you have no idea where you’ll find a place. Everyone has a place. What am I supposed to do? Where will I stand, all the way at the back? There are already regulars. Suddenly I see the Rebbe coming in. There are two benches there, where people stood, [unclear].

22:54 Speaker 4 On the platform in the main shul, you mean.

22:55 Speaker 2 No, no, by the entrance the Rebbe used.

22:57 Speaker 4 Oh, at the entrance, near the pyramid.

22:59 Speaker 2 Near the pyramid. There was a path from the pyramid between two benches. I saw that beside the benches there was an empty spot.

23:09 Speaker 4 [unclear].

23:10 Speaker 2 I don’t know. I’ll set up a box here.

23:13 Speaker 4 You had your eye on it.

23:13 Speaker 2 Let’s see how it works out.

23:14 Speaker 4 You had your eye on it.

23:15 Speaker 2 I did, but there was a problem. I had to get a box ready and tie it down so nobody would steal it. That was what occupied me on Friday: how do I arrange it? Where do I put it so I won’t have to carry it in from the courtyard? Don’t ask. What a box I had! I would stand between Goldstein and [unclear]; Leibel Kaplan was behind me. Leibel [unclear] stood below. So it was quite a spot. From there I was pretty close to the Rebbe at farbrengens.

23:47 Speaker 4 You could see from there, and hear too.

23:49 Speaker 2 Yes, you could hear the Rebbe speaking aloud. Sometimes the Rebbe had a cold, but you could still hear him. At a farbrengen he would also sit on just half his chair, poised like this. And when they sang from the Chumash, he would open the Chumash [unclear] and look into it. Only on Shabbos Bereishis, when they would auction that off...

24:10 Speaker 4 Always.

24:10 Speaker 2 He would lean back like this, holding the...

24:14 Speaker 4 Make himself comfortable.

24:15 Speaker 2 Make himself comfortable with the Chumash. And then [unclear] came up. I don’t remember what year it was. There was no shtreimel. So the Rebbe did this to his hat and looked over like this, pointing with his finger.

24:29 Speaker 4 While looking into the Chumash, he pointed with his finger.

24:31 Speaker 2 Like this, with a little smile.

24:32 Speaker 4 At the hat.

24:32 Speaker 2 At the hat, like this. Then he took the napkin from the cookies and tossed it to him. And it stayed there for the whole—

24:43 Speaker 4 That was in the last year, in—

24:44 Speaker 2 Yes, the one that’s written about. After that they made sure there was at least one shtreimel. That was something. The way he sat like that—also when he came up on Yom Kippur night for Tehillim, he would lean back.

24:58 Speaker 4 Make himself comfortable.

24:59 Speaker 2 Make himself comfortable and read like that. On Simchas Torah, when he came in with the Tehillim at night—and it was very short—he would keep his hand on it and turn the pages the whole time. It goes very quickly.

25:10 Speaker 4 By “short,” you mean because there’s a large commentary at the bottom, so there aren’t many lines of text.

25:14 Speaker 2 So he was constantly turning pages while standing. Once, he finished before the chazzan. He immediately asked for a siddur and began saying Korbanos. Usually, toward the end, he would indicate with his finger that he hadn’t finished yet. Every time, except that once. I was that bochur. There were other fellows too. [unclear]

25:44 Speaker 4 Tishrei ’31.

25:46 Speaker 2 Tishrei ’31.

25:48 Speaker 4 That was your first Tishrei. Did they prepare you?

25:51 Speaker 2 Tishrei ’31. So, like this.

25:54 Speaker 4 Did they prepare you? Tell you what was going to happen?

25:56 Speaker 2 Of course we knew. We were kept up to date on everything. There were reports. Anyone who had been there for Tishrei would tell you exactly what happened. So I said to myself: I want to see how the Rebbe davens. I want to be there on Yom Kippur and see how the Rebbe reads [unclear]. I also want to hear and see the shofar blowing. So do I stand here or there? What do I do?

26:20 Speaker 4 In the order of the Vidui, it says that among the Rebbeim, some read this part, some read that part.

26:27 Speaker 2 So I said, let’s see; I’ll try. I had already seen in the morning—or at night—that the fellows were claiming places for the shofar blowing. And in the morning, before davening, there were already ten or fifteen rows before the Rebbe came in. Everyone was focused on his spot. Every moment someone else arrived and signaled, “My place, my place.” I was standing close; people didn’t push quite so much near the Rebbe’s place.

26:49 Speaker 4 There wasn’t a platform.

26:50 Speaker 2 There wasn’t a platform, just [unclear].

26:52 Speaker 4 There wasn’t a platform there either.

26:54 Speaker 2 There was a carpet, and in front of the carpet was the guests’ long table. So I’m standing there, thinking: what will happen now when they blow the shofar? Then I say to myself, wait, what did I do? I didn’t stay there. Maybe I climbed onto a chair? I don’t know. Perhaps onto a table at the side. I don’t know how we managed it. Maybe I was standing at some height. I had a direct view of the Rebbe’s place. I saw, and the Rebbe spoke aloud. I watched the whole sequence unfold before me. They brought it in that morning and placed it on his shtender. Afterward he arranged it here: three small bundles and two large ones, arranging them on this side and that side. And then the one who led the service. The haftorah, with weeping—wow, something extraordinary. Chana and her children. [unclear] verses. What a moving occasion! And the preparations for the shofar blowing, with the shofars. I saw it from a distance, so I couldn’t see every detail. I saw Groner standing beside him, and somehow [unclear], and the little black shofar. Then, after he put it down in front of him, he held the tallis like this on both sides. His whole forehead was uncovered; his eyes, his face—it was as though his face were burning like fire. Such an awe-inspiring face. What can I tell you? And “Why is it necessary...” [unclear] He threw himself forward onto his face and swayed there, weeping. Rabbi Groner put his ear close to hear the Alter Rebbe’s niggun that was being sung.

28:41 Speaker 5 Leibel Sandler.

28:42 Speaker 2 Leibel Sandler, yes, very close, and still he could hear his niggun. Afterward the Rebbe raised himself back up, and then came the verses, “Who believes...” Everything was quiet. It was such a—I can’t describe it—the atmosphere during the verses and the brief shofar blasts. Brief, the—

29:08 Speaker 5 Let’s go back to Tishrei.

29:10 Speaker 2 Tishrei. The Yom Kippur blessing. You come for the blessing before Yom Kippur. The Rebbe gives the blessing, “In My garden I planted...” Well, what then? Was I going to go eat now, look for my friends? Forget about it. People were coming in, and I came to stand right by the door. Little by little it got closer. Minchah was at plag haminchah, plag haminchah. In short, I was already about five rows away. I hadn’t eaten or drunk; I didn’t care. Hearing the blessing—that was what mattered. Then, right at the last moment, just before the Rebbe arrived, someone pressed against me in the crush and blocked my ears. I stood there half-fainting.

30:02 Speaker 5 Oy vey.

30:03 Speaker 2 And all I heard was “and blessed is He”—the Rebbe saying [unclear]. The blessing was quite short, really short. They managed to print it right away, to make copies right away. So I thought, I’ll go out. There were three exits, and there were taps. I wanted water. A fast was coming; tomorrow was the fast. This was no joke. The Rebbe went into his room after the blessing and came straight down. I went down the stairs to get a drink. Then—wait. I’m at the back of the shul, and I need to be up front. What’s going to happen? Drink? Forget it. There’s no way to drink. Leave the water; I’m here and the Rebbe is here. I thought, wait, the Rebbe has just gone in; let’s go around the back. I ran after him. By the time I got to my place, I’d forgotten food and drink. Nothing mattered. You were already caught up in it all. The main thing was that you were standing opposite the Rebbe. Now it was Yom Kippur, with all of that. Someone would hand the Rebbe—what was his name, Binky [?]—the Sefer Torah. The small Sefer Torah. Everything was done with such respect. The Rebbe was never without [unclear]; everything, the Rebbetzin too. It was something. And the solemnity of Yom Kippur too. The Rebbe sat for much of Yom Kippur. He stood only during—so he was sitting much of the time.

31:29 Speaker 5 Only during Vidui.

31:31 Speaker 2 During Vidui, yes. Then he would sit down.

31:34 Speaker 5 What about jumping onto the chair?

31:37 Speaker 2 That jump was something. Now, on Yom Kippur there wasn’t a platform. So there was—

31:42 Speaker 5 In your group too?

31:47 Speaker 2 No. He came for Tishrei then. Libel tells me, “We have to do something here right away. Before nightfall, let’s get organized, hold hands like at demonstrations, and not let—”

32:03 Speaker 5 Not let what?

32:05 Speaker 2 People—

32:06 Speaker 5 Push.

32:07 Speaker 2 Onto the carpet. And we saw it was already getting bad. We moved forward on the carpet, kept moving, until we were almost at the chair. Before that we were still a little farther back, but the moment the Rebbe jumped—there was this rounded chair, and the Rebbe jumped onto it and held himself like this, G-d forbid. It was really rounded, not... And his face—

32:33 Speaker 5 You mean the seat.

32:36 Speaker 2 The seat.

32:36 Speaker 5 The rounded one was the regular red chair.

32:38 Speaker 2 Yes, the regular red one, but—

32:40 Speaker 5 It wasn’t flat. It was a little rounded.

32:42 Speaker 2 So he held himself like this, you know, during the march. Suddenly the tallis went like this.

32:49 Speaker 5 The tallis.

32:51 Speaker 2 It jumps.

32:52 Speaker 5 Falls over his whole body.

32:53 Speaker 2 Completely over his whole body. And the movements—we were right up by the chair. After the Rebbe had covered himself, we touched it, and afterward we went back when the Rebbe came down. But what pushing! What a crush! Why? You had to see it. It was even more than that. It was a completely different dance. It was with his whole body.

33:16 Speaker 5 On—

33:17 Speaker 2 Simchas Torah.

33:18 Speaker 5 But wait—about how long did the march take?

33:21 Speaker 2 A few minutes. What, [unclear]? Not ten minutes, not ten.

33:26 Speaker 5 Did the Rebbe cry?

33:27 Speaker 2 No, there were—

33:29 Speaker 5 Tears.

33:30 Speaker 2 But no. What we saw more was the Rebbe’s joy. Afterward there was this feeling—you saw, they did this around him: “We won. We won.” I’m telling you, you could see victory.

33:45 Speaker 5 Afterward. But after the march, did he lift the tallis while on the chair or down below?

33:50 Speaker 2 No, while still on the chair, even before... Yes, yes.

33:52 Speaker 5 You could see his face.

33:53 Speaker 2 You could see his face. His eyes were tearful, but his face was full of joy. There’s nothing else like it. Afterward too, at the Rebbe’s march with a kippah. Which—

34:11 Speaker 5 Sukkos.

34:12 Speaker 2 Sukkos.

34:13 Speaker 5 That one, your uncle.

34:15 Speaker 2 Yes. Sukkos... The Rebbe appointed the... on the first night of Sukkos. I remember he said to Rabbi Eisenberg [?], “You were with [unclear].”

34:27 Speaker 5 With Tzvi.

34:27 Speaker 2 With Sandler.

34:29 Speaker 5 Sukkos, though, Sukkos. All right.

34:36 Speaker 2 Wait, Sukkos—what happened during Sukkos? Because of Mordechai breaking his leg, it was understood from the Rebbe that he wasn’t going to hold a farbrengen on the second day of Sukkos. So they said, “There are guests here.” Rabbi Segal, Rabbi Leibov, and Rabbi Chanzin asked permission to ask the Rebbe if they could enter the lower Gan Eden after Minchah on the first day of Sukkos. The Rebbe agreed.

35:17 Speaker 5 To make their request.

35:19 Speaker 2 And he was willing to speak with them. The Rebbe agreed to let them in.

35:21 Speaker 5 Meaning Leibov asked whether they, the guests—

35:23 Speaker 2 Wanted to come to the Rebbe. “They want to make a request; they’re my guests.” So the Rebbe said, “What, am I not a host? All right.” After Minchah, Chaim was standing there too. He was from [unclear].

35:35 Speaker 5 Oy.

35:37 Speaker 2 And the Rebbe went like this: “Oh, very good. If you’re here, you’re my guests, I’ll tell you what’s going on here. There was an incident. There was a farbrengen in the sukkah, and no one thought about how to make sure nobody would get hurt.” So the water—the Rebbe indicated that the water had come up to here.

36:01 Speaker 5 Up to the leg.

36:01 Speaker 2 Up to Mordechai’s leg. The Rebbe immediately showed, “Up to here, up to here. And someone broke his leg, and no one thought about how to...” To Rabbi Leibov and Rabbi Segal the Rebbe said, “I have no complaints against you, but if you want, I’ll tell you how things work here. What do you want me to do—take a white horse? Go into [unclear]? I could take a minyan for myself, go into my room and do the hakafos. Why do I need all the...?” In short, “There’s a group of French people here. Nobody thinks to give them a cup of hot tea. There hasn’t been any hospitality since then. Nobody is looking after them. There are bochurim here who need to hear the blessing on Erev Yom Kippur. They want to hear it, and nobody thinks about how to make sure they can all hear what they need to hear. And they want to.” [unclear] “So what do you want me to do?” He poured out his heart. Yes. In short, then they knew what [unclear] meant. After that, Chaim went off. My uncle Chaim Sholom said, “Rabbi [unclear], after hearing words like that from the Rebbe, can you keep quiet?” And my uncle [unclear]. He didn’t understand. My uncle was there too, and he didn’t understand what had happened. Suddenly, later that night, the Rebbe announced that there would be a maamar the next day, [unclear], on the night of Lag BaOmer. What a privilege.

37:50 Speaker 5 Hallel...

37:51 Speaker 2 Hallelujah! Hashem brought back the water. Five times. It was such a gift—a gift from G-d. Who could stay away? Who wouldn’t come? Even I was at the review. Everyone... It was... How could you pass up something like that? So at the beginning of the farbrengen, he looked all around to see whether people had room to stand, whether anyone was being pushed. Sometimes there were even fights.

38:15 Speaker 5 It was in the shul, not at the end.

38:16 Speaker 2 Downstairs. Downstairs. All right, what led up to the water? He looked around, checked everyone; he feared for their safety. But it was such a gift. Oof, I can’t forget the feeling when the Rebbe received that. Afterward, at Simchas Beis Hashoevah... That was on Seder night. By then the Rebbe was already suspicious. Which Yadgar was there? I said Iraq, and Shmuel Witman, America, and Krasnov—Krasnovsky. What was the “Big Four”? He had four great powers. There was Russia. Well, who was Russia? Avalsky was in charge of Romania, Yadgar of Iraq.

39:07 Speaker 5 And your uncle was in charge of Eretz Yisroel.

39:08 Speaker 2 Eretz Yisroel, and—

39:10 Speaker 5 Guri Segal.

39:12 Speaker 2 Guri, Guri was in charge of Yemen. And all the while, the Rebbe—this was the one Seder when the Rebbe stood facing the crowd and looking—

39:23 Speaker 5 From the box.

39:24 Speaker 2 From the box, yes. And he was very—

39:27 Speaker 5 Open.

39:28 Speaker 2 Very open. On the one hand, suddenly you saw the Rebbe being so approachable. But there was a smile too. Yadgar said, “He’s looking at me. It’s my birthday today.” “Well, then come over, come over and receive [unclear]. What are you waiting for, an invitation? Come over and receive [unclear]. What are you waiting for, an invitation? You’ll have blessing and success.” Like this, with his hand.

39:58 Speaker 5 The shul.

39:59 Speaker 2 Before, before the—

40:01 Speaker 5 Between one kabbalah and the next.

40:02 Speaker 2 Yes, yes. Between that and the next thing. So he stood there. “Stand here and say the blessing.” That was in 5735; afterward it was because it had happened in 5731. Then at the farbrengen on the twenty-first, and afterward at the hakafah of the [unclear], they sang “Utzu Eitzah.” For twenty-five minutes: “Utzu Eitzah.” His face—suddenly everything changed, like this, with his hands. He looked at the crowd, and you could see the Rebbe was [unclear]. Breaking through worlds. Afterward, at the farbrengen, I was standing like this. He said, “Now we’ll do things this way, so it won’t look like [unclear]. Since the non-Jews are voting now, we, here with my Big Four, will vote that Eretz Yisroel belongs to Hakadosh Boruch Hu.”

40:57 Speaker 5 Standing?

40:57 Speaker 2 Standing, like this.

40:59 Speaker 5 He stood with both hands on the table.

41:00 Speaker 2 He stood there—that was how it was arranged. So they couldn’t see him.

41:03 Speaker 5 But the crowd couldn’t see you.

41:05 Speaker 2 Like this.

41:05 Speaker 5 Both hands on the table.

41:07 Speaker 2 Standing like this beside the table.

41:08 Speaker 5 Tell me.

41:09 Speaker 2 Standing beside the table. “Now we’ll do things this way. [unclear] The non-Jews want Eretz Yisroel, and everyone here decides unanimously. Whoever agrees with my words should answer amen.” Like that. Afterward the Rebbe said, “Where I come from, it’s customary to go to the theater. So here, in order to get out of this, I’ll have to put on a little theater: someone should ask...” [unclear] Oy, oy, oy—enough! I won’t forget it. It was something, something. The Rebbe referred to the Big Four afterward in Igros Kodesh too. There were all sorts of hints in the middle of farbrengens, or he would tell them to say l’chaim. He referred to my uncle a great deal, and wrote to him [unclear].

42:02 Speaker 5 It’s starting again.

42:03 Speaker 2 Wait, where? Sholom, you said Chabadniks—whoever it was—and he said that every l’chaim there was a Chabadnik with a Chabadnik, Chabadniks. That shows there was something about the Rebbe. Otherwise they wouldn’t have fought, because it was Chabad. There had to be something there.

42:20 Speaker 5 It had a huge effect. That’s for another conversation. I’m thinking about [unclear] and all kinds of things. No, not now. All right, when was the yechidus?

42:29 Speaker 2 The yechidus was on August 8. Now, each person’s yechidus—and you could already see it two months, a month, beforehand. He was going in for yechidus. You could see the seriousness, the learning, the preparation.

42:44 Speaker 5 You’d notice that a bochur—

42:46 Speaker 2 You knew immediately.

42:47 Speaker 5 Was going to have yechidus soon.

42:48 Speaker 2 About me, most of it about me. They immediately understood: suddenly he’s sitting and learning, with a sefer all the time, instead of running up and down. He’s a certain type of person. And I decided that this yechidus—this is the whole foundation a person needs to carry on with his life. So what? I said I had to be, how do you say, open, not conceal or hide anything. You can’t try to fool anyone. You’re facing the Rebbe; you have to be completely straightforward. I said, fine, what is there to be afraid of? [unclear] He’ll shout at me? You know what? Fine. But the opposite is true: I keep to my schedule. I’m there for everything. I don’t leave the schedule for anything, not to visit relatives, nowhere. I’m here twenty-four hours a day, and I know everything. I watch the clock, I watch the davening, how the Rebbe davens and all the Rebbe’s movements. I know, and I follow it all, and that gives me what makes me feel like myself. I don’t belong in the whole world of learning; it’s not for me. Learning is not on my account. I belong to all of that, and I ask for a blessing that it should be that way.

44:15 Speaker 2 I laid it all out like that over five pages, absolutely unequivocally. Fine.

44:21 Speaker 5 That I should ask for a blessing for...

44:23 Speaker 2 A need. I have nothing to do with...

44:27 Speaker 5 Being around it.

44:28 Speaker 2 Yes, that it should grow stronger, that I should be able to... How do you say it? That it should teach me, that I should learn from it, that I... Fine. You wait outside. Of course, you fast that day. You go to the mikveh. There are all sorts of preparations. I was afraid. I knew this wasn’t... this wasn’t ordinary. You write it down, but no, I hadn’t really thought it through. I said, he’ll accept me as I am if I write the truth—what I think, what it is. It’ll come. I knock on the door and go in. His hat is down like this, over both eyes.

45:08 Speaker 5 The hat is down over his forehead.

45:09 Speaker 2 Already down like this...

45:10 Speaker 5 Almost to his eyes.

45:12 Speaker 2 Almost, almost to his eyes. And he’s alert and serious. And you approach him. “May you live.”

45:22 Speaker 5 “May you live.”

45:22 Speaker 2 Yes, certainly.

45:23 Speaker 5 “Remember us for life.”

45:25 Speaker 2 Not just “May you live”—may you live a long, good life.

45:28 Speaker 5 What’s in the room? Hundreds...

45:30 Speaker 2 Who looks around the room? You look only at the Rebbe. You hand him the notes. He takes them very seriously, picks up his pencil, puts on his glasses. [unclear]

45:46 Speaker 5 He coughs.

45:46 Speaker 2 Every cough. He finishes reading like this. He doesn’t raise his eyes; he doesn’t look at you. Maybe when I first came in—I don’t know, I didn’t think to look. I... I was... You were what? He finishes reading. “Because what you’ve written here, that you...”

46:12 Speaker 5 Does he raise his head?

46:13 Speaker 2 No.

46:14 Speaker 5 He doesn’t raise his head.

46:15 Speaker 2 He puts down the note. “Since you write here that you don’t belong in learning—if you’ve decided, if you’ve decided, that means you don’t belong in learning—then there’s no reason for you to return to yeshiva. Go back to Eretz Yisroel and join a kibbutz, religious or not religious, though a religious one would be preferable. Be on a kibbutz. Don’t return to yeshiva. But for you, this is final. Nobody will change your decision. Since you’ve decided that this is how it is, that you don’t belong there, then clearly you have no reason to...” And within a year or two—two years—you’ll get married, so then, naturally, it won’t be possible. A kibbutz, a kibbutz... What do you mean? I go outside, book a ticket, arrive back in Eretz Yisroel in the middle of the course—three weeks in. What are you doing here? I come to my father and say, “What did you give me fifteen hundred euros for? And now I’m supposed to go to a kibbutz?” [unclear] What do I do? What? What? How do I... what does one do? How do you go on after something like that? What can you do? Jump off a roof? In short, would you want to relive that memory? What do I do? What do I do? What do I do? And as he finishes saying this, he raises his head a little. “Did you have an aliyah this week?” [unclear]

47:58 Speaker 5 [unclear]

47:59 Speaker 2 “Did you give tzedakah before Shabbos? May you have some success and blessing.” He began giving blessings, and I’m still alive. He raised his eyes like this. [unclear] I stepped outside, a little shaken. Rabbi Zaletzky[?] meets me. “Did you get mashke?” I wanted to give him mashke, of course. And I paced back and forth for half an hour. “What happened to him? What?” That’s what he says to me. I went back to my room. I had a friend, Motty Strenger. I said to him, “Motty, you won’t believe it. I don’t even know what I’m going to do anymore. I’m... I won’t know what to do with myself. I don’t belong.” “What? What happened? What did he tell you?” “I wish it were just that. Tomorrow I’m there. What are you talking about?” “Come on, explain yourself properly.” I said, how can this be? If I’d sent someone to some Rebbe, to some Chassidic court, and he’d gone in to ask for a blessing, they would have told him, “First start learning; don’t talk nonsense.” But here it was explicit, absolutely explicit: you decided, so nobody is going to budge you.

49:29 Speaker 6 Don’t return to yeshiva. I translated it into Hebrew. Yes.

49:33 Speaker 2 In short, I came out, and the next day I sat with myself. I hadn’t slept all night. But what does it really mean? The Rebbe said that I had decided. So today I’m deciding differently. My decision is that I will start learning for an hour or two. Reb Binyamin Klein is looking for me. [unclear]

49:59 Speaker 6 Take the Rebbe’s answer.

50:00 Speaker 2 Yes, right away. I said to him, “What do I do? What do I do?” I sat with Motty again. Motty said, “Let’s be precise about what happened.” I wrote down what the Rebbe had said. [unclear] Tomorrow morning I’ll decide that I’m a prodigy. I’m the greatest scholar; everything is open before me. Tomorrow I’ll find a chavrusa for nigleh and for Chassidus, and I’ll go conquer the world, just like that. Suddenly I took it all on. I opened Gemara Pesachim. [unclear] I’m learning Chassidus, nigleh, one line at a time. Two weeks later, I write to the Rebbe: “The Rebbe gave me an instruction. I made this decision, and not only did I decide...”

50:48 Speaker 6 I decided.

50:49 Speaker 2 “I decided, and I’m carrying it out. This is my chavrusa, this is what I’m doing, and this is what I decided.”

50:57 Speaker 6 Don’t just decide—do it.

50:58 Speaker 2 So the Rebbe gave you the strength to know that you have the strength. In other words, you have potential. If you come up against all sorts of things in your shlichus and something isn’t working out, then decide that you can rise to it.

51:17 Speaker 6 Well, Rabbi Segal, there’s still so, so much more to hear.

51:20 Speaker 2 A little more...

51:21 Speaker 6 Yes, that’s already...

51:22 Speaker 2 Rabbi Oz[?].

51:23 Speaker 6 No, we want to go to Munich[?], and we also want to hear about all those times when [unclear] passed through your hands. All of it.

51:29 Speaker 2 All right.

51:30 Speaker 6 We’ll come back. The main thing is that these shouldn’t just be memories of the past.

51:32 Speaker 2 May it be so, with Hashem’s help.

51:34 Speaker 6 May we merit to meet the Rebbe again.

51:36 Speaker 2 I said that it gives a person his footing. It’s not a small thing.

51:38 Speaker 6 I said, what is it?

51:39 Speaker 2 The first yechidus gives a person his footing.

51:42 Speaker 6 It gives him his footing.

51:43 Speaker 2 Yes, that’s what I would say. I write to the Rebbe all the time. If only I had the inspiration I had then.

51:50 Speaker 6 The vitality... [unclear] Life. Life.

51:56 Speaker 7 Thank you very much for listening to the second episode of the Lehitra’anein podcast. We’re sure these words will inspire you, too, and give you strength to renew yourselves and strengthen your connection to the Rebbe. Many thanks to the podcast’s host, shliach Rabbi Nachum Goldschmidt, and producer Aharon Freiman. Thank you all. We’ll meet again in future episodes. Good news—Moshiach now.