'Lehisraanen' Episode One: Rabbi Chaim Sholom Segal, Part A

00:00 Speaker 1 Hello and welcome to Lehisraanen, the podcast that brings you the vitality of Beis Chayeinu. In this podcast, the Rebbe’s shliach, Rabbi Nachum Goldschmidt, sits down with chassidim who were with the Rebbe at 770 at some of the most special moments throughout the year. They’ll share with him—and with all of us—what they experienced, saw, and heard with the Rebbe. As Yud Shvat approaches, this is another opportunity for us to connect with the Rebbe and refresh our connection with him. The podcast will be available to listen to on all podcast platforms and in the Drive. Episodes will first be posted on the Lehisraanen channel and WhatsApp group. You’re invited to join now using the attached link and receive the episodes as they come out. The podcast is hosted by Rabbi Nachum Goldschmidt. Produced by Aharon Freiman. Enjoy listening. Lehisraanen.

00:45 Speaker 2 Hello, this is Nachum Goldschmidt. In the podcast before you, whose name says it all—Lehisraanen, “to refresh ourselves”—we’ll take a refreshing journey together. For a chossid, refreshing yourself doesn’t mean finding a comfortable armchair, sitting with your legs crossed, and watching the sun set over the sea. For a chossid, it means going back and reliving the special moments he experienced with the Rebbe at Beis Chayeinu, 770, the source of true life for us all. The Frierdiker Rebbe recounts something his father, the Rebbe Rashab, told him: a chossid needs to stop from time to time and ask himself, “Vos gedenkstu?”—“What do you remember?” Memory isn’t what it might sound like to us: recollections of long ago, a longing for something distant. Memory is something you live today. As the saying is explained, “We remember, and we act”: remembering gets us up to do something. Memory gives strength. It gives life, lifts us up, refreshes us, and gives us hope that very soon we’ll be with the Rebbe again. Recently, I went around meeting chassidim of all ages, backgrounds, and styles. What they all have in common is that they merited to be with the Rebbe during those years of light, and they still live those moments today. I wasn’t looking specifically for people who had a special yechidus or experienced some stirring, spine-tingling miracle. I looked for Jews who still live the time they spent with the Rebbe. Some were there for an extended period—a year or more. Others were there for just a single visit. What they share is that they live those moments with the Rebbe, and they’re willing to share them with us, to relive them together and refresh us with memories of those eternal moments. They’ll give us pleasure, and also a chance to draw a breath, get up, and do something so that we’ll be with the Rebbe again. I want to open the first episode with a chossid I sat with for more than two hours,

03:06 Speaker 2 listening to memories that flowed and stories that came alive. Anyone who has ever seen Reb Chaim Shalom Halevi Segal, the Rebbe’s shliach in Afula, knows that he lives in 770. Even today, after more than fifty years in Eretz Yisroel, carrying out his shlichus together with his wife, may she live and be well, his real life is the years he spent with the Rebbe. Chaim Shalom shares experiences of everyday life and of Tishrei, and, of course, the remarkable, special yechidus he had. As I said, we recorded for more than two hours, so we’ve divided the conversation into two episodes to leave some space between one episode and the next, one story and the next. With Hashem’s help, we’ll hear the first part this week and the second next week. I hope you enjoy it. Actually, I’m sure you will, because things that are alive with the life of 770 are fascinating and give life to us all. But above all, I hope these words give us the strength to refresh ourselves and live the eternal moments of a chossid’s life with the Rebbe, with hope and confidence that very soon we’ll all be with the Rebbe again. We’ll see those wondrous moments again, and, with Hashem’s help, in the complete Geulah we’ll see the Rebbe immediately, right now. Hello, Rabbi Segal. We’re a few days before Yud Shvat—seventy-five years since the Rebbe formally assumed the nesius, seventy-six years of the Rebbe’s nesius. As chassidim, we don’t like memories as something in the past, G-d forbid. But of course we all want to hear about, live, and feel more and more of life in 770. We want to hear from you about your kvutza and about the years you spent [unclear] with the Rebbe—anything that can bring warmth and life to Anash and the Temimim, let them feel what it was like to live in 770, and bring it alive for the young people, for all of us. Share whatever you can with us. When did you first arrive at the Rebbe?

05:12 Speaker 3 The 5730 kvutza. Pesach 5730. There was a whole story behind that too—how we got there and everything.

05:20 Speaker 2 Tell us.

05:21 Speaker 3 The whole... In Cheshvan 5730, we learned that the yeshiva administration wanted us to travel not for Pesach, but for Tishrei.

05:34 Speaker 2 Meaning that the kvutza normally ran from Pesach to Pesach.

05:37 Speaker 3 Two Pesachs. Pesach at the Rebbe’s was special, of course, but I mean in terms of farbrengens. After Pesach there was the Seder, and the Rebbe would go upstairs to the Rebbetzin, to the Frierdiker Rebbe’s apartment. But the ones who could enter for the Seder were only the kvutza that was leaving and the kvutza that was arriving. Now, in Cheshvan, we heard that the administration wanted to impose this decree on us. On the one hand, it would be very good—two Tishreis, with all the excitement and everything. But it meant staying in exile in yeshiva for another half year. Boruch Hashem, our kvutza had Menachem [unclear], may he live for many good years.

06:21 Speaker 2 Amen.

06:21 Speaker 3 He should be blessed. He was an initiator, and he had courage. I just had to get him on board. “Menachem, let’s write to the Rebbe. Let’s write—what could happen?” He went, took the letter, and put it [unclear]. We headed it, “We wish to see our king.” We wrote that we were desperate and pleaded that we couldn’t accept the decree the administration was planning, to keep us in yeshiva another half year. We begged: we couldn’t wait any longer; would the Rebbe give us the opportunity to come for Pesach, not Tishrei—for Pesach 5730. We sent the letter.

07:07 Speaker 2 That was in...?

07:08 Speaker 3 Cheshvan. Cheshvan 5730. I said to him, “Menachem, a letter like that—‘we wish to see our king’—that’s quite a way to put it!” Today, saying “we wish to see our king” is commonplace. Back then, that wording wasn’t commonplace. But I said, “Menachem, this really matters to us. Let’s write.” The Rebbe used to send replies then. We wrote out all the details in Yiddish. Usually a reply would be typed, and the Rebbe would add something at the bottom, either by hand or in typescript. Suddenly, after a month or a month and a half, a letter arrived from the Rebbe. The letter is with Menachem. I have to ask him for a copy—I keep saying I want to see the exact wording. It was a typed Chanukah letter, and at the bottom, beside his holy signature, the Rebbe added in his own holy handwriting: “I bless you to observe the mitzvos with love and awe.” More handwriting! Menachem said, “The Rebbe didn’t dismiss the letter; he asked us for love and awe.” All right, we needed a mashpia to tell us what that meant. What did the Rebbe want from us?

08:24 Speaker 2 The mashpia—the mashpi’im—didn’t know about the letter.

08:28 Speaker 3 Why are you emphasizing that? You’ll see in a moment. Anyway, we said, “There’s hope.” I didn’t think there was. Then came the big Yud Shvat. The mashpia, Reb Shalom Chaim, traveled to the Rebbe and came back full of experiences. He spoke in that style of his, [unclear]. He didn’t repeat everything, but he did tell us about something that had embarrassed him on Shabbos. He said, “I was in yechidus, and we spoke about the kvutzos, about Tishrei versus Pesach. I explained the whole matter to the Rebbe.” I didn’t even investigate at the time why the administration wanted Tishrei; to this day I don’t know the reason. “We discussed the kvutza, and the Rebbe said to me, ‘I don’t understand. They wrote me a long letter saying they want to come after Pesach. What’s going on with the connection between the mashpi’im and those they guide? Don’t they know what’s happening with them?’”

09:33 Speaker 2 In Hebrew.

09:34 Speaker 3 Oh, right. The Rebbe said, “I don’t understand. They themselves wrote me that they want to come for Pesach. Is there no connection between the mashpi’im and those they guide? Doesn’t the mashpia know what the bochurim want?” That was it. I said, “Menachem, it’s happening! We’re on our way!”

10:01 Speaker 2 How many signed the letter?

10:03 Speaker 3 I don’t remember whether it was ten or fifteen. We got all the—

10:08 Speaker 2 That was the core group.

10:09 Speaker 3 Yes, more or less. Maybe there were twenty of us. I think everyone was there. But we functioned as a group: let’s write to the Rebbe; let’s try to turn the world upside down. Anyway, then Shabbos Mevorchim Nissan came. After Shabbos, you didn’t go to sleep before finding out what had happened at the Rebbe’s farbrengen. The fellows would call to hear about it. You didn’t have a Shabbos with the Rebbe, but you had your group.

10:38 Speaker 2 I still want to come back in a little while to the atmosphere, to how the bochurim lived in Israel, but we’ll return to that in a moment.

10:45 Speaker 3 So he, just—

10:48 Speaker 2 From 19 Shvat until Shabbos Mevorchim Nissan, there hadn’t been one.

10:51 Speaker 3 There hadn’t been anything. How long is that?

10:53 Speaker 2 A month and a half.

10:54 Speaker 3 Yes, a month and a half. At the farbrengen, the Rebbe said: “There is a group of bochurim who want to come here to study the inner dimension of Torah. And the administration here, whose job is to see to it that bochurim come to study the inner dimension of Torah, are occupied with other things. They’re busy.” As he made this point, the Rebbe was sitting with his hands under the tablecloth, and as he spoke you could see his movements; he brought out his holy hand. “And what do they claim? In all of New York there aren’t enough beds? There aren’t enough sheets in New York?” [unclear] “So how does that fit with the Frierdiker Rebbe? What’s more important: making sure bochurim come here to study the inner dimension of Torah, or dealing with—” [unclear]. But he referred them to the Frierdiker Rebbe on that point. The bochurim were taking on the expense of 1,500 lira themselves, trusting the administration to reimburse them for everything. They were even coming into conflict with their parents. Their parents argued that they could study in Israel. Moshe Dayan, Moshe Dayan, who was the defense minister, said—his job was to make sure people didn’t leave the country. So he understood that the bochurim had to overcome everything and come here to study the inner dimension of Torah, while here was an administrative committee whose very job it was to arrange that. In short, it was quite an attack. We heard about it that night. I said, “We’re those Israeli bochurim. We’ll show them.” [unclear] There’s no such thing. If that’s how the administration acts, then no. After all, he was dealing with the bochurim; he was dealing with this matter right then. But the Rebbe knows what’s in their hearts. You understand? Then 9 Nissan 5730 arrived. That morning, everyone went to the airport. We were going to the Rebbe. So we—

13:10 Speaker 4 Did the administration in Israel say anything to you?

13:13 Speaker 3 Nothing at all. Gornisht. No, I approached them. I knew this was a group from three yeshivos, [unclear]. Each time there had been twenty, twenty-four bochurim. This time there were forty-four. Anyway, I went up to Yankel Katzman. “What’s going to happen?” “You’re not studying nigleh here. What do you need to travel for?” “Rabbi, I want to study [unclear].” That was before the... before that sicha. “That’s your purpose in traveling to the Rebbe? Here they have to tell you Chassidus. That’s something else entirely. A person has to establish himself in that for his whole life. And you come and...” [unclear]. I went up to Mashke and said, “Mashke, Chaim Shalom...” “Don’t worry. It’ll be all right.” “Mashke, if I don’t go, I’m going into the army.” “So you’re saying you’ll go into the army? That’s like shmad.” It wasn’t an idle matter; it was something very real. What did the army mean? “Don’t worry. It’ll be all right.” Well, after the Rebbe delivered such a sharp sicha, the affidavits for the twenty bochurim who were supposed to come were sent by mail as usual. But the affidavits for the additional twenty-four were carried by someone flying a day or two later. Within a few days the affidavits arrived. I ran over like a madman. I was sure mine would be among the additional ones—why would they put me in the original twenty? I ran and ran. No affidavit, no affidavit. I looked there—definitely not there—and not here either. I was beside myself. We waited a few more days, and twenty more affidavits arrived. Chaim Shalom was among them. I came to Mashke, and he said to me, “My dear fellow...”

15:06 Speaker 4 “I promised you. I promised.”

15:09 Speaker 3 Well, the day arrived. We came to the airport. Everyone was there—the Jerusalem fellows, everyone, of course. A whole group had grown here. So many bochurim, and all their families. Everyone was at the airport. It was something. You were on such a high, both physically and spiritually. Suddenly I saw Avraham Wolf, Yossel Bloy and Berke. What were they doing there? Ah, wait. It was simply that Shabbos—the Rebbe had taken them to task, and [unclear]. They had come, in a way, because of what the Rebbe had said about the group.

15:44 Speaker 4 That’s what you were thinking to yourself.

15:45 Speaker 3 Yes. So I assumed they had just come to see us off a little, to show that they were human after all. “Chaim Shalom,” Reb Ephraim called. I was busy with the checks and the luggage. “Chaim Shalom, come here. Something very important.” I thought, what could be so important? “In the middle of the night I received a telegram from the Rebbe. The Rebbe asks me to approach every member of the group and ask him what his purpose is in traveling. If his purpose is to sit and learn, fine; if not, the Ramban says it’s forbidden to leave Eretz Yisroel.” I had one ear on the luggage and one on him. An instruction from the Rebbe—what? So he asked me, “What do you plan to do? Sit and learn?” “Of course.” “Then come, let me ask you properly.” There was no question about it. But it took all the physical excitement out of the trip. Now that was the only thing to think about. He went up to each person like that. [unclear] showed them the telegram. And then we sat on the plane.

17:00 Speaker 5 Before we get to the flight, I want to pause for a moment to understand how you came to the Rebbe. Today we live in an age when everyone knows everything. But back then, over the course of a winter, what connection did a bochur have with the Rebbe? Was there any connection?

17:14 Speaker 3 You wrote to the Rebbe for your birthday. And of course you were interested in the farbrengens. When the Rebbe held a farbrengen on 19 Kislev, a tape would arrive two weeks later, and we would sit with Shlomo Chaim z"l and listen to the Rebbe. That was how it was until Shabbos Hagadol. Then, for the first time, there was a live broadcast, so there was more of a connection.

17:35 Speaker 5 Until Shabbos Hagadol. But before that, Shlomo Chaim would also sit and listen to the tape with you?

17:41 Speaker 3 That’s what I mean. Shlomo Chaim would sit and listen to the tape that arrived, with all those hours of the farbrengen.

17:46 Speaker 5 Would everyone sit down each time?

17:47 Speaker 3 Yes. Sometimes we would do it—but not in the middle of seder, of course. After seder.

17:51 Speaker 5 After the study sessions.

17:52 Speaker 3 Yes. In the afternoon he would get up and sit down to listen. It was four hours long. They would play an hour, an hour and a half, and more the next day.

18:00 Speaker 5 And you also mentioned that sometimes, after Shabbos, people would get together. You mentioned—

18:05 Speaker 3 We discussed what had happened that Shabbos.

18:07 Speaker 5 How would you call?

18:08 Speaker 3 Yes, we would call. There were all kinds of little arrangements. It wasn’t entirely straightforward. I don’t know if the Rebbe would have wanted it done that way, but stolen waters are sweet, you know? Anyway.

18:18 Speaker 5 But there was an atmosphere among the bochurim.

18:19 Speaker 3 There was an atmosphere. But I can’t say it was like the atmosphere today. I don’t know—it was different. The longing to travel to the Rebbe was certainly there; it was something powerful. But there was a great lack of information about what was happening with the Rebbe. If someone came back, you would hear him repeat a sicha, describe what had happened, recount a yechidus—a sicha, a yechidus, you understand? But to say that the strength of the...

18:50 Speaker 5 We’re up to just before Shabbos Hagadol. So tell us a little about the atmosphere in Israel that Shabbos Hagadol. Shlomo?

18:55 Speaker 3 It was extraordinary. First, we very much wanted our group to get started. One of us, alav hashalom, didn’t ask any questions and traveled for Shabbos Hagadol. When he arrived, they didn’t want to let him in. So he asked Shlomo Chaim [unclear]. In short, he got in for Shabbos Hagadol, and that was that. But he was able to. And if Munke hadn’t cooled us down, that Shabbos Hagadol would have been something else entirely. You thought that on Motzaei Shabbos you’d hear which plane the Rebbe was taking to Israel. Yes! Moshiach had come! No, the atmosphere was electric. All through Shabbos Hagadol they sat up the whole night farbrenging. Munke came to the farbrengen. “Oy, what are you dreaming about? [unclear] What do you think is going to happen here?” The fellows were in such a state; they felt, here it is, it’s about to happen, and they didn’t know what had happened [unclear]. By then it was already afternoon. So that was Shabbos there, while we were desperate to know exactly what had happened there. What had the Rebbe said? Had we finished the sefer Torah—the end of galus? You understand? It was electrifying. The longing to be there, when you weren’t there—you understand? I don’t think you can describe what it was like.

20:14 Speaker 5 Did Shlomo Chaim travel on his own, or did he have permission?

20:15 Speaker 3 He traveled on his own.

20:16 Speaker 5 I know he didn’t travel alone. I mean, did he have some instruction to travel, or was it his own feeling?

20:20 Speaker 3 No, not just a feeling. All those who traveled—there was a friend, Bilitz [?], Ephraim Wolf, people like that, real standouts. A lot of them. Anyone who could travel needed a lot of money. A trip to the Rebbe cost 1,500 liras—that was five months’ salary for a teacher. So the atmosphere on 19 Kislev, when there was a live broadcast... I remember [unclear] was in Israel, and he happened to meet Rabbi Poli [?].

20:44 Speaker 5 That was before Shabbos. This recording of 19 Kislev.

20:46 Speaker 3 Of 19 Kislev.

20:47 Speaker 5 Motzaei Shabbos.

20:47 Speaker 3 Motzaei Shabbos, yes.

20:48 Speaker 5 Meaning Sunday morning in Israel.

20:49 Speaker 3 Yes, yes. So you could see how much he wanted it, how he yearned to feel it. The longing just poured out of him. It was something. Slushberg [?] was at the Chabad [unclear], packed. The whole room downstairs by the yeshiva was [unclear]. People came from everywhere, from [unclear], from all over. Everyone [unclear]. That was what the whole broadcast was for. For long weeks, everyone sat for hours. I think that was when the Rebbe spoke [unclear] about [unclear]. It was really something. I also remember collecting money so that everyone would pay fifty liras. Yes, yes, it showed how thirsty we were for it. On Motzaei Shabbos, all we could do was listen. When Shabbos ended in New York, we heard what had happened, and then they brought some kind of recording, with the conductor and all of that, with the Rebbe.

21:44 Speaker 5 Did you already have the recording?

21:45 Speaker 3 A recording? I don’t think so—not even then. Where would we? They told me the Rebbe came down wearing a kapote. So everyone was looking to see what sort of crown the Rebbe was going to wear. In short, it was... it suited the whole thing. That was it. It was the Rebbe of Chabad’s crown, a crown of the kind Chabad had never had—[unclear] in the Rebbe’s year, and all sorts of things. There were quite a few things that... But the atmosphere was absolutely electric.

22:16 Speaker 5 So, with a feeling like that, you then traveled to the Rebbe on 16 Nissan.

22:20 Speaker 3 16 Nissan. We arrived in London; I think we had a stopover there. We arrived at eleven at night, around midnight. Then—no, afterward there was already a light on in the room.

22:30 Speaker 5 You arrived in New York at midnight on 19 Nissan.

22:33 Speaker 3 We arrived—I said it was...

22:34 Speaker 5 On 19 Nissan.

22:35 Speaker 3 No, on the ninth. We left in the morning, and by evening here—it was the ninth there. We didn’t know whether the Rebbe was there or not. When we got there, we saw a light on in the room. A light on in the room—the Rebbe was there. So we would see the Rebbe that very night. Anyway, we walked around, looked around. I saw the Rashag go in to the Rebbe. So I went over to Binyamin: “Is there yechidus today?” What exactly did he say? “Today? No. The Rebbe asked that the Rashag be called in.” The Rebbe gave eighteen dollars for the merit of each member of the group. The Rashag went into the Rebbe’s room, and the Rebbe personally gave the group that extra attention.

23:21 Speaker 5 Meaning the Rebbe was, so to speak, giving it from his own money.

23:23 Speaker 3 Eighteen dollars for the merit of each person.

23:25 Speaker 5 Forty-four hundred dollars.

23:27 Speaker 3 Forty-four hundred.

23:28 Speaker 5 That was on the day you arrived, then.

23:29 Speaker 3 Meanwhile, I was still...

23:31 Speaker 5 You knew him.

23:32 Speaker 3 Yes. Meanwhile, I saw him go in, so I asked. He said, “No. The Rebbe asked that he be called in.” The Rebbe called him and gave it to him.

23:38 Speaker 5 A Jerusalemite talking to a Jerusalemite.

23:39 Speaker 3 Yes, exactly—they understood each other. Then it got to a quarter to one. I saw Rabbi Chadakov come out, and I already knew...

23:48 Speaker 5 A quarter to one.

23:48 Speaker 3 Leave aside the quarter to one. He came out of the room and opened the door to Gan Eden Hatachton. So I knew that in a few minutes he would go in for a moment to sum up the day. That was the usual routine, to sum up the day. When they opened the door, you had to know that at precisely one o’clock, the lights would be switched off. We stood in two rows all the way along. And each of us—you know, you’re about to see him for the first time. There were those old lamps there, and everyone had to say Shehecheyanu. Suddenly there he was, and everyone was like this, and the Rebbe, with a bundle in his hand, looked around like this. “Shehecheyanu.” “Amen, amen.” You know, it all happened so fast. You were... I don’t know. You didn’t even have time to take it in, to look, before the Rebbe was already inside the building. It was amazing.

24:40 Speaker 6 He drove off.

24:41 Speaker 3 He drove off, drove home. Everyone said Shehecheyanu, standing there in two rows, with the Rebbe passing between us. The next day there was Torah reading, Torah reading. Everyone had a Chumash. The Rebbe received an aliyah, then stood off to the side. Once again, a close encounter: seeing the Rebbe with the Chumash and the door open. I could see the... those living details, the lectern. The older scholars stood outside; on ordinary days they weren’t inside. It was really something for the bochurim. We stood close and looked at the Rebbe, though not everyone managed to get close. Um, what happened there? We arrived... Yes, it was [unclear]. Then Shabbos came, with the farbrengen, and we had to find a place. As we used to say, you need a place.

25:30 Speaker 6 There wasn’t a farbrengen on the eleventh.

25:31 Speaker 3 No. On the thirtieth...

25:33 Speaker 6 There wasn’t one.

25:35 Speaker 3 So there were only two [unclear].

25:37 Speaker 6 There was one on Shabbos.

25:38 Speaker 3 There was a farbrengen on Shabbos—Shabbos Hagadol. On Shabbos Hagadol, during the Torah reading, they took out the Torah scroll. Moshiach’s Torah scroll had been kept in Rabbi Shmuel’s room. There were instructions about whether to take it out or not. So it may have been taken out every Shabbos, since it was a Torah scroll. By the way, that Torah scroll—or at least most of it—was written by an uncle of mine on my mother’s side, [unclear] from Borough Park. I don’t know. So the previous Rebbe... I don’t know.

26:16 Speaker 6 The previous Rebbe of Chabad.

26:17 Speaker 3 Yes. I think he either completed it or wrote it. He was the sofer. [Unclear], son of Fleischer [?]. Only later did I realize he was related to me, and that meant something to me. Anyway, they took out the Torah scroll, and suddenly it was found to be invalid. Four [unclear] checked the scroll without a computer. It was [unclear]. I think it was in a passage [unclear]. A nun was missing. Well, well, well—anything can happen. During the Torah reading, the fellows were standing facing forward, as in davening. Then there was a commotion. The Rebbe turned around. Rabbi Leibele [unclear] went white. Imagine—a Torah scroll, with everything surrounding it, and suddenly a nun is missing. This Torah scroll that... The Rebbe watched as they took out the second Torah scroll. He followed it with his eyes all the way to where it was brought. I think that on that Shabbos—I need to check again whether it was the same parsha, the same Shabbos—[unclear] said to me... Wolff was there in the morning. You could see him standing there by Gan Eden Hatachton, and the Rebbe [unclear]. Which parsha was it?

27:39 Speaker 6 Just a second. The Rebbe davened upstairs.

27:42 Speaker 3 When?

27:43 Speaker 6 That Shabbos.

27:44 Speaker 3 No. Downstairs, downstairs, downstairs.

27:45 Speaker 6 Downstairs.

27:45 Speaker 3 Downstairs.

27:46 Speaker 6 Meaning they brought the scrolls back from the bimah downstairs, and the Rebbe watched them the whole time, all along the way.

27:53 Speaker 3 Yes, all along the way. From the moment they took out the Torah scroll, the Rebbe watched it right to the end, until they put it back. Ah, at the farbrengen the Rebbe said: “There is the group that arrived, who themselves promised me personally that they would sit and learn. They promised me personally, personally.” And [unclear]... “One of the group has just written to me that, with Hashem’s help, he is planning—with Hashem’s help, planning—with Hashem’s help, after Pesach. Right now he’s busy with preparations for Pesach.” So... “What preparations? The Shulchan Aruch is already prepared. What preparations are there besides sitting and learning? There is no other preparation. And if he thinks he can’t sit and learn yet, there is still enough time before Pesach to return to Eretz Yisroel, because we have a prohibition stated by the Rambam.” After another jolt like that—listen, we had been given permission, but the Rebbe was keeping a tight rein on us. On the one hand, there had initially been a letter from [unclear] to Sholom Chaim, and then suddenly here [unclear]. In Nissan, the Rebbe spoke out against this whole approach of not wanting a group to come. And here, suddenly, a letter.

29:22 Speaker 7 A commitment.

29:23 Speaker 3 A commitment—and you had forgotten about me. What? Anyway, after that, after Pesach, at a farbrengen... Ah, on Pesach, at the Seder. The Rebbe would come in to see how things were arranged for those from abroad. We watched through the window, because the Rebbe carried himself so regally.

29:45 Speaker 7 On Seder night—we’re talking about Seder night—the Rebbe would go around to check.

29:51 Speaker 3 To check.

29:52 Speaker 7 On the bochurim.

29:53 Speaker 3 He would go through.

29:54 Speaker 7 And the girls.

29:55 Speaker 3 Yes, there was the one for [unclear], for Beis Chana.

29:58 Speaker 7 Beis Chana was the girls.

29:59 Speaker 3 There was one for the Russians too. So that makes three groups—or were the Russians also... No, the Russians were...

30:06 Speaker 7 [Unclear].

30:06 Speaker 3 [Unclear], [unclear]. But when he came in, that’s what we’re talking about now.

30:09 Speaker 7 I went.

30:09 Speaker 3 It was the first time. No, I stood nearby. Everyone stood by his own wall.

30:13 Speaker 7 Meaning you didn’t go to the girls’ place or to [unclear]?

30:15 Speaker 3 No, we stayed so that... I stayed so I might have time to run to the Seder. Maybe I could still get in.

30:23 Speaker 7 He went through where the bochurim were, first.

30:25 Speaker 3 First, yes, near the back of the shul. About fifteen minutes later, the Rebbe came out with an entourage, walking at its head.

30:31 Speaker 7 And all the bochurim were standing, each one...

30:32 Speaker 3 Each one by his own wall, and the Rebbe came in like that. It was the first time. It was the first Seder there; before that, they would go from [unclear] to a five-star hotel. So this was an entirely new place.

30:44 Speaker 7 That’s what the whole day was about.

30:47 Speaker 3 Yes, that was downstairs. Upstairs were all the pictures of the Rebbeim, with a huge picture of the Rebbe in the middle. And the Rebbe came in like this. The arrangement was such and such.

30:58 Speaker 7 What do you mean, “such and such”?

31:00 Speaker 3 So the Rebbe was pleased with the way everything was set up in the open area: long tables, everything in order, each person standing by his own [unclear]. He really looked around. I think I need to remember—I need to ask Dvorka. There were people who had made mistakes with the egg, putting it on the right or the left. Anyway, the Rebbe went through and looked. He approached the faucets. Now everything was covered in aluminum foil, and [unclear]. The Rebbe looked around at everything. There was so much steam you couldn’t see the walls or the markings; everything was covered in foil. He passed the faucets and saw that there was a cloth. The Rebbe reached toward it with his hand: “Vos tut men?” What do you do with this—with what remains here?

31:54 Speaker 7 The straining cloth.

31:55 Speaker 3 The strainer, the straining cloth. Anyway, then they understood. I didn’t hear.

32:01 Speaker 7 In Hebrew. What did you ask? What?

32:03 Speaker 3 What? What do you do with what? With the leftovers that remain here. That’s what the Rebbe said: it passes through, but here it pours out and is finished, while here it remains in the bowl. So he told me that Tomer Ashkenazi and his father argued that no, the Rebbe didn’t mean they should remove it. I said, I’m telling you explicitly: the Rebbe meant that it doesn’t belong there at all. It’s [unclear].

32:28 Speaker 7 There was some year when the rabbi checked it, or something.

32:31 Speaker 3 Maybe in a gentler way. No, the Rebbe wouldn’t agree—after all, with the chametz from his mouth. So, yes, no: “Vos tut men?” What do you do with what remains? And Mrs. Moussia[?], you wait all year for the blessing. The Rebbe would bless her before the end, too, with a long life.

32:45 Speaker 7 I heard the emotion in her voice when she described how—

32:48 Speaker 3 When she described it.

32:49 Speaker 7 That was her whole life.

32:49 Speaker 3 It was her whole life. When the Rebbe was about to leave, he would give her a blessing. The Rebbe also connected it with “Your children like olive shoots.” That is, all the [unclear].

32:59 Speaker 7 The verse, the verse.

33:00 Speaker 3 The verse—everything revolved around that verse. I don’t know about the Rebbe. The Rebbe also liked that song from the meals upstairs on Shavuos. He asked who had composed the song. He asked. Actually, we had gone to see the group off. Zalman Chanin was there too, and on the way back we sang it. He started singing it to the tune of “Dayenu,” like that. I don’t know what they told the Rebbe, why the Rebbe [unclear].

33:28 Speaker 7 But the connection was that the bochurim sang it together.

33:30 Speaker 3 Yes, yes, something like that. And it wasn’t just an ordinary verse. So the Rebbe [unclear] the whole thing. There’s no other song that the Rebbe [unclear], and altogether it was boundless. Anyway, a blessing for Shavuos, for Shavuos. Yes, I think it was for the people on Shavuos. The Rebbe gave a blessing. So someone who wanted a blessing—because [unclear], or Yehuda was sitting there—and he tossed a doughnut, tossed it. Look, one person wants a blessing, and everything gets jostled around. [unclear]. With one hand he threw it. All right, on Pesach I was in a great hurry.

34:18 Speaker 7 So on Seder night the Rebbe gave a blessing to the children.

34:21 Speaker 3 To the children, yes. He gave a blessing and connected it with the verse as well.

34:24 Speaker 7 And then he went to continue the Seder.

34:26 Speaker 3 And came back.

34:27 Speaker 7 And came back to the Rebbetzin’s home.

34:30 Speaker 3 Now, with all the commotion, a group that was coming back might have managed to get in.

34:33 Speaker 7 A group finishing.

34:34 Speaker 3 Finishing, yes. So I thought, this doesn’t work for me. What do you mean, they don’t let people in? You try. I had received a blessing. It couldn’t be that I wouldn’t be there. Still, the Rebbe was sitting there, and I was afraid. Who knows who would be at the door if we knocked, and how they would react? The Rebbe could hear. You don’t know—you’re new, you don’t know exactly what goes on there. So I finished my Seder very quickly. I drank the cup and ran upstairs. It was closed, and I waited. Suddenly [unclear] asked, and they opened the door. He opened the door and came with the candles. I said to myself, wait, the door is open and the Rebbe is sitting there. The Rebbe sat here, on this side. No, not there—the Rebbe was on this side. Here was the place of... No, it works out that way, as though the Rebbe was coming out of the previous Rebbe’s place. The Rebbe was sitting there, to the side.

35:34 Speaker 7 On the left.

35:35 Speaker 3 Straight across from everyone. I came in through the door, from there over to here. So the Rebbe looked like this.

35:41 Speaker 7 The door is on the Rebbe’s side. You’d have to go past him. You’d have to pass the Rebbe.

35:45 Speaker 3 Yes. The Rebbe looked over a little, checking who it was and so on. He seemed to look, and then lowered his eyes. I thought, let me let the Rebbe allow me to pass. It wasn’t comfortable, but I said to myself, I’m already here. The Rebbe didn’t react; he didn’t say no, or “Don’t let anyone else in.” He held the [unclear], and when he came back, we began. So I got to see the Rebbe sitting at one Seder. He didn’t sit back comfortably. He sat on about half the chair, alert, constantly glancing toward the previous Rebbe’s place. If someone pushed in around it to see, or touched something, or something moved, his face changed color. You felt that there was something there—not just an object—and that the Rebbe was not [unclear]. There was something there, and the Rebbe, too. Especially the way he sat, completely alert, every moment, with the [unclear], until there was a pile there. Meni told me at the time that he, too, had been at one or even two Seders. He wanted to take something of the Rebbe’s, so he approached, and the Rebbe turned around like this. In other words, there was a concern—a concern about chametz. So he dropped the idea. But the very fact that—

37:15 Speaker 8 Did more people from the first group come in?

37:16 Speaker 3 Yes, yes, a few more did. There were—

37:19 Speaker 8 The Rebbe didn’t respond.

37:20 Speaker 3 He just looked. That was it; we got past that.

37:23 Speaker 8 Well, what happened?

37:24 Speaker 3 It was a certain style—he said Nishmas with that kind of melody. To our ears, there was even more to it; he was really like that. And the Haggadah? Which Haggadah was it? I don’t remember. Which edition was that—

37:44 Speaker 8 The Rashkov edition.

37:45 Speaker 3 Rashkov, yes, yes. But he was sitting—

37:47 Speaker 8 His Haggadah.

37:48 Speaker 3 Huh?

37:49 Speaker 8 His Haggadah.

37:50 Speaker 3 Yes, his Haggadah. That was the one he had. And he sat there like this and read fairly audibly. At Nishmas, you could hear how he said “Nishmas.” When it came time to drink the cup, I watched very closely. So he did it like this. For Kiddush on Shabbos, the Rebbe would hand it to... And his routine was like this: they would prepare cakes [unclear], and there was—

38:22 Speaker 8 That’s where they usually come in.

38:23 Speaker 3 Usually, covered.

38:24 Speaker 8 So there would be a distinction between Pesach and the rest of the year. Yes.

38:27 Speaker 3 Yes. I just wanted to see... I noticed how he sat down, lifted the cloth, checked, took a piece of cake—just the way it is today. [unclear]. Then he put the covering back and closed it.

38:45 Speaker 8 Meaning, he took it out of the bowl.

38:46 Speaker 3 He took it out of the bowl and put it down for himself like this. There were lots of napkins; he covered it, and his cup was here. He took the cup, took a napkin and wiped it. It’s amazing. It says to rinse it; it doesn’t say to wipe it. [unclear], but the Rebbe wiped it, cleaned it with... I got up to see how he stood, just to watch how he stood beside the Rebbe. Then you could see exactly what kind of hiskashrus it was, what kind of bittul—something beyond comprehension. All the various tasks the shluchim were given, and the way he handled the gartel, not taking it off for a moment. He stood there like... But how did he know to take that gartel? The Rebbe took the goblet to fill it with wine. The Rebbe began the Kiddush part of the Seder.

39:37 Speaker 8 At the next point.

39:38 Speaker 3 Yes, he already had it on himself, and the Rebbe gave him a glance and nodded like this. So he did like this, and the Rebbe like this. Then he approached and took the cup.

39:53 Speaker 8 Slowly.

39:54 Speaker 3 He filled it and began moving it very slowly, creating that atmosphere. The Rebbe was still looking in the siddur, and when he came very close, he moved it. Then, after he said [unclear], he placed it right in front of the Rebbe. The Rebbe lifted the cup, held it like this, and said it quite quietly. Not everyone heard his Kiddush. I could barely hear it myself. He made Kiddush. He didn’t drink like this. He finished saying the blessing, lowered the cup and held it like this.

40:28 Speaker 8 His hand at the side.

40:29 Speaker 3 Like this. He made Kiddush, with the cup tilted like this.

40:34 Speaker 8 Meaning, he put it down and then picked it up again from the side.

40:38 Speaker 3 Afterward he immediately put the napkin aside, and right away... The Rebbe did this beforehand, so he took back the cup and asked for more wine, and they brought wine. On Pesach, while he held the cup, he kept it like that. I watched: no, none spilled.

40:51 Speaker 8 Nothing spilled?

40:52 Speaker 3 Nothing. Like this, with his body, like this—he finished the entire cup. He made sure it didn’t...

40:59 Speaker 8 Since people can’t see, I’ll explain. Every Shabbos at Kiddush, he would take the cup, put it down, and pick it up from the side.

41:05 Speaker 3 Put it down from the side.

41:05 Speaker 8 On Pesach, while he was still holding—

41:07 Speaker 3 The cup.

41:07 Speaker 8 Until Kiddush, he didn’t put it down.

41:09 Speaker 3 He didn’t put it down. On Pesach he didn’t put it down.

41:11 Speaker 8 Interesting—and not a drop spilled.

41:13 Speaker 3 Right, he also moved his body to recline. So he went like this. There was that kind of flow to it. That’s the second—it’s two cups, I think.

41:24 Speaker 8 No, one cup.

41:25 Speaker 3 One cup.

41:26 Speaker 8 Or you didn’t manage to—

41:27 Speaker 3 No, no.

41:27 Speaker 8 That’s why he wouldn’t come back. No, one cup.

41:30 Speaker 3 Not like that. But again, every moment. What it came to in the end was the whole... and that kind of tune wasn’t really a tune, it was more like... the whole atmosphere. Ten chassidim sitting there. The Rebbe’s home had this particular feel to it. You felt there was an energy there, something. It wasn’t something you find elsewhere. It was something special.

41:57 Speaker 8 About how many people were standing along the sides?

42:01 Speaker 3 About fifty. I think [unclear] and a few others were also standing behind the Rebbe.

42:08 Speaker 8 In the house.

42:08 Speaker 3 I preferred to be facing the Rebbe, not behind him, so I could see his movements, what he was doing. After that came [unclear], and it started with Eliyahu’s cup.

42:21 Speaker 8 [Unclear].

42:22 Speaker 3 [Unclear]. Eliyahu Hanavi. He stood up, of course, and started with the cup. The bottle and the bottle, one plate after another—you couldn’t follow it closely enough to know exactly what was happening. And so on.

42:36 Speaker 8 Was there singing at that moment? No.

42:38 Speaker 3 He was busy with that behind him. He poured and poured and poured until he finished, wiped his hands with the napkin—the napkin that I remember was really his towel. And suddenly I saw that, almost as though before davening, he straightened his...

42:57 Speaker 8 His tie.

42:58 Speaker 3 He straightened his gartel. He went toward where the Rebbetzins were sitting, the Rebbetzins’ room. Ten chassidim were sitting there, and in the other room...

43:06 Speaker 8 A large room, ten chassidim.

43:07 Speaker 3 And there sat Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka, Nechama Dina, her sister Chana, Manya [?], and another woman. Who knows? I think that was it. He went in like this, with his hands like this, holding it in his hand.

43:24 Speaker 8 With the siddur, with the Haggadah in his hand.

43:25 Speaker 3 With the Haggadah in his hand, and the cup. The cup was covered with a napkin, I think. He approached, went in [unclear], like that, and came out downstairs. There, through the corridor—[unclear]. I can’t forget that corridor. Anyway, corridor after corridor—that was the first night. So we went to escort the Rebbe, whoever could. It was already twelve-thirty, one in the morning. We waited for the Rebbe to come out. The Rebbe came out.

43:55 Speaker 8 And the Rebbe went into his room.

43:56 Speaker 3 Yes, he put down the cup and the other thing and put on his coat. The Rebbe came out in a coat, and he came out from there [unclear], with everyone singing to him and making motions with their hands. Instead of going left, the Rebbe went right.

44:11 Speaker 8 Toward Kingston.

44:11 Speaker 3 Toward Kingston, Kingston. Not [unclear]. We followed the Rebbe, and the Rebbe was making motions with his hands like this. Motions of boundless joy. He turned onto Union, turned onto Union, and suddenly, near the kollel, the Rebbe motioned with his hands for the boys to stop singing. I saw Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka coming out from the kollel toward the passageway.

44:34 Speaker 8 By way of Tashlich.

44:35 Speaker 3 By way of Tashlich. She crossed over to Union, and the two of them walked together. Chesed walked behind them, and Chesed told me they spoke: “How was [unclear]? How was the Kiddush at Father’s?” I don’t know—he told me about it at the time. I said to him, “What?” He had been standing very close to Father. All sorts of customs came up, and he mentioned that Father had done this and that, and I... Fool that I am, I didn’t pay attention. I hate hearing about things only after they’ve been written down.

45:02 Speaker 8 And Chesed told me about it.

45:03 Speaker 3 This I don’t know; I heard it firsthand. After he left, I said to him, “I saw you walking very close. What was it?” They did talk about the Kiddush of [unclear], how it had been at Father’s—something like that.

45:13 Speaker 8 Did the bochurim keep walking, or did they stop when the Rebbe stopped them?

45:16 Speaker 3 The Rebbe just motioned like this. So only Chesed went on and escorted the Rebbe home. That was fine. As for the second night, I don’t remember. I was there the first night; the second night too? Right now I can’t quite remember whether I was there both nights or just the first. But on the second night there was a farbrengen, with explanations of the Haggadah, explanations of the Haggadah. The Rebbe came downstairs at one-thirty; it was a two-and-a-half-hour farbrengen, with eyes closed. Throughout the farbrengen—people, after four cups, fall asleep and so on. I think it was one of those without niggunim, but I need to check again whether it really was like that. Sometimes there was even a maamar in [unclear] during it, but mainly it was explanations of the Haggadah. Afterward the Rebbe went home. That was the night of... After that, throughout Pesach, there were no farbrengens, no sichos. Only after Pesach... Lots of visitors came from all sorts of places, but most of the bochurim had gone to their parents for Pesach, so it was empty, and the group was very prominent in—

46:32 Speaker 8 The Rebbe’s davening before that.

46:33 Speaker 3 He came in downstairs for all of it. On Pesach, Minchah and Maariv—no, Shacharis was downstairs, Minchah and Maariv upstairs. The Rebbe would come in for davening as usual; on a weekday, he came through the regular door. He had the table with the... But on Erev Shabbos the Rebbe would daven very close to Shabbos, at three or four o’clock. Then the Rebbe would come in.

47:10 Speaker 8 Close to Shabbos.

47:11 Speaker 3 Yes, it was close to Shabbos. Wait, though: he davened Maariv downstairs, and Minchah was upstairs. Shabbos Minchah was upstairs, that’s certain. Maariv was downstairs. I’ll remember why in a moment. He would come in through the corridor and the back door there, and there was—

47:28 Speaker 8 The door of the small room, the small room of—

47:31 Speaker 3 The small room. Yes, the room with that wooden bookcase. They put a shtender right by the door. But on Erev Shabbos he didn’t sit by the window then; he stood at the shtender with his hand like this, and you could see it in his face.

47:50 Speaker 8 Okay, explain it to me again. All right, his face.

47:53 Speaker 3 It was really as though—

47:54 Speaker 8 As though there was a little repose.

47:55 Speaker 3 It was repose; it’s written about. It’s a time of—

47:58 Speaker 8 A taste of [unclear].

47:59 Speaker 3 [Unclear]. And you could see it.

48:00 Speaker 8 In the middle of the window.

48:00 Speaker 3 His face, too—his eyes were closed the whole time. There was the window, but he stood like this, with his hand like this, each time. Afterward it stopped. Why? I don’t know why the Rebbe stopped doing that at Minchah. For Minchah he then started going back out.

48:20 Speaker 8 He also went out through the corridor.

48:21 Speaker 3 Through the corridor.

48:22 Speaker 8 Not to go...

48:22 Speaker 3 Not to go...

48:22 Speaker 8 Not to go to the entrance door.

48:23 Speaker 3 He only looked at the paroches.

48:25 Speaker 8 At the Gemara.

48:25 Speaker 3 Something happened, and because of that it changed. But standing—the shtender stood where that door was.

48:31 Speaker 8 The entrance to the office.

48:32 Speaker 3 The Rebbe never davened facing books. Even upstairs, when he davened after the histalkus of my father-in-law, the Rebbe, they put a shtender there for him.

48:38 Speaker 8 Upstairs in the apartment.

48:39 Speaker 3 In the apartment, yes, in the apartment. [Unclear]. So he davened facing that. Yes, it was needed. Now, on Shabbos by day: even when there was a farbrengen downstairs, everyone wanted to go upstairs for Minchah. The Rebbe would daven upstairs, coming in through the corridor, and they set up the table. Meir Alex [?] arranged the table and shtender for Shemoneh Esrei. But during Chazaras Hashatz, the Rebbe would sit beneath that window. That’s where he sat, and at Modim he would move...

49:11 Speaker 8 With his hand, his hand and his forehead.

49:12 Speaker 3 His forehead, like this, with his hand. On his way back, he went around [unclear] so he could touch the paroches, and went out the back. That was on Shabbos. On Chol Hamoed, instead of the table that was there, they put a shtender there for him.

49:30 Speaker 8 Underneath.

49:30 Speaker 3 In place of the chair.

49:31 Speaker 8 Beneath the window.

49:32 Speaker 3 No, not at the entrance.

49:33 Speaker 8 At the entrance.

49:34 Speaker 3 In place of the table. On Chol Hamoed there was a shtender. [Unclear]. By the shtender, with a chair.

49:40 Speaker 8 Because there wasn’t a set seating arrangement. Maybe they couldn’t move the table.

49:43 Speaker 3 Yes, that’s how the Rebbe tried not to disturb the congregation. He would try to come at exactly three-fifteen. Sometimes there were delays, or sometimes the Rebbe wouldn’t come out at all. In the middle of [unclear], I don’t know. I didn’t investigate it then or ask Levi what the Rebbe was doing, but you could see signs like that on his hands. I don’t need to be there for that. The Rebbe was still learning.

50:07 Speaker 8 His own things.

50:07 Speaker 3 His own things.

50:08 Speaker 8 Yes, that was it.

50:09 Speaker 3 His schedule, his schedule. But what was interesting was that on Chol Hamoed he also came in as usual and looked at the... just looked at the... He didn’t go over from his shtender to Anash, and then he went out. He looked like this, as I remember it. He would only touch it when he passed right by it. I tell the boys that we never dared touch the spot where the Rebbe had touched it with his hand. Today it’s become the thing to do—everyone has to touch it. There was such awe, such awe. You know, even more than that. I ask: if you’re so aware of that, how do you still go up and do it?

50:54 Speaker 8 But very quickly. There’s also a video in which the Rebbe asks, after yechidus for the donors, when there were partitions there in the later years—

51:01 Speaker 3 Yes, downstairs.

51:02 Speaker 8 That they open the partitions, because he wants to see Anash.

51:05 Speaker 3 Oh, right. Because he looked over, too. They had closed off a partition there for Maariv.

51:09 Speaker 8 They put up a partition so it would look nice.

51:11 Speaker 3 Yes.

51:11 Speaker 8 For the donors.

51:12 Speaker 3 Also, when he davened Maariv after the large farbrengens, there was a board there so he wouldn’t daven facing the...

51:19 Speaker 8 That was on Shabbos.

51:20 Speaker 3 At large farbrengens on Motzaei Yom Tov. The Rebbe wouldn’t go to his place on the platform. They would put his shtender there, and then there was that...

51:30 Speaker 8 In the later years, that was the case at every Shabbos Minchah.

51:32 Speaker 3 But before leaving, he would glance over at Anash and then go out.

51:39 Speaker 8 Nu, Acharon Shel Pesach of ’76.

51:42 Speaker 3 So at the end of the farbrengen, the Rebbe took the matzos, and there were two groups there. One group was going up to Eretz Yisroel, and the groups had held a farbrengen together. The idea was that one should strengthen the other, and they were told to hold a farbrengen together first. The two groups held a farbrengen, and the Rebbe gave the matzos to Mendelik. Mendelik took care of everything he had been asked to do. That was in the dining room. That was your Chassidus farbrengen. It was different from other farbrengens. It had a very special order to it. There was a maamar, then a niggun, then a second maamar—and the Rebbes’ niggunim, too. At those farbrengens in general, you could see the Rebbe during a niggun. You could see that the Rebbe was preparing himself. It wasn’t just automatic. He lowered his eyes, and gradually his whole face changed. I said that Boruch and I watched this very closely. His face would change—on Shabbos, when the Rebbe came in, at all sorts of moments. Suddenly we’d say, “Oh, look how the Rebbe looks!” His face looked—I don’t know how to describe it. That’s how it was.

53:06 Speaker 9 In other words, the audience can’t see the pictures. So tell us: could you see different expressions on the Rebbe’s face at different times?

53:13 Speaker 3 Yes, you could.

53:14 Speaker 9 On Shabbos, on Yom Tov.

53:15 Speaker 3 On Shabbos, on Yom Tov. I’m talking about Rosh Hashanah, and his face—his whole face. Do you know what it was like? Even from a distance you could see it.

53:28 Speaker 9 We’ll get to Tishrei as well. But first Elul begins, and the regular schedule starts.

53:35 Speaker 3 Yes. So, then—

53:37 Speaker 9 What was the relationship between the bochurim and the Rebbe?

53:39 Speaker 3 We would get up at night, and the bochurim would stay for yechidus too, to see who went in and who came out. We were very careful.

53:48 Speaker 9 It sounds as though the bochurim were nice.

53:51 Speaker 3 Yes, yes, they were nice. But it wasn’t so simple. We were careful that when the Rebbe finished yechidus, he shouldn’t see us. Or if the Rebbe held a minyan in the early morning for Yehuda Krinsky’s hachnasas sefer Torah, the guys made sure we weren’t part of that minyan.

54:05 Speaker 9 You didn’t join?

54:06 Speaker 3 We didn’t join that minyan. Then again, I would often eat the cake they brought in the morning for the seder. But that was [unclear]; there wasn’t really such a concept. On Friday they would [unclear] to buy something. But the schedule wasn’t orderly; there weren’t the mivtzoim. Of course, people went out for Mivtza Tefillin, but I didn’t go. I stayed to see where the Rebbe was going. I was very, very much a “kriecher”—always trying to get close—in an extraordinary way.

54:35 Speaker 9 That’s the “kriecher” we want to hear about. But on an ordinary day, did you have any kind of set schedule?

54:43 Speaker 3 Every day we waited to see the Rebbe arrive. You were in the middle of seder, after all.

54:48 Speaker 9 What time would the Rebbe arrive in the morning?

54:50 Speaker 3 Ten.

54:51 Speaker 9 Ten.

54:51 Speaker 3 Now, if it was [unclear], he would arrive at twelve, but for the Torah reading it was always exactly ten. The door would open and the Rebbe would come in. There was the Tehillim—putting down the Tehillim. He would also get an aliyah, and each time it was shelishi. But the secretaries stood outside. I wonder why.

55:15 Speaker 9 Just to let a few more people in? How many were there altogether—thirty?

55:20 Speaker 3 Thirty. Only bochurim, not married men, and not—perhaps there was one other “kriecher” like that, but you generally didn’t see them then. I think it was thirty-three, though I’m not sure. But let me give you an example. An example of what? Mainly, there was a group of Americans who didn’t care what anyone else thought. I remember once standing downstairs, very close by. I see Yossi [unclear] and [unclear] off to the side. I say to them, “How can you sit here chatting and running the world when the Rebbe is right there?” “The Rebbe’s there—so what is there to see? He’s davening. What is there to see?” “Today the Rebbe came in wearing a gray tallis with the lining at the back.” “What are you going on about?” “Today the Rebbe’s shoes had—”

56:12 Speaker 9 Open holes.

56:12 Speaker 3 Open holes. By the way, the Rebbe’s shoes were always polished, and his hat was brushed. There was—

56:20 Speaker 9 Every day.

56:21 Speaker 3 Every day. The shoes were torn, but polished. That’s another story. Yes. And Simchas Torah was incredible, in the rain and all that.

56:34 Speaker 9 Tell us, tell us.

56:35 Speaker 3 He wore those shoes for fourteen years, until someone arranged for him to replace them. That was something people used to say. I remember either hearing it said that way or hearing an exaggerated version of it. Apparently the Rebbe had some trouble with his feet—

56:50 Speaker 10 A heel spur.

56:51 Speaker 3 That was why he also walked in something like slippers, like—

56:55 Speaker 9 House slippers.

56:55 Speaker 3 House slippers. This was on Simchas Torah 5731. I was standing very close. The platform was only so high; it wasn’t—

57:07 Speaker 9 Like this—

57:08 Speaker 3 It wasn’t like the one with metal railings all around.

57:10 Speaker 9 Twenty centimeters.

57:11 Speaker 3 No more. No, no—it was eighty centimeters, less than a meter.

57:18 Speaker 9 Less than a meter.

57:19 Speaker 3 But it came right up to my—

57:21 Speaker 9 Knee.

57:22 Speaker 3 Yes, yes. When I cut my knee and it bled from all the pushing, I knew exactly how high the platform was. In the front row, with people pressing behind you—it was terrifying. The air conditioners didn’t work, there were thousands of people, and you were standing right in front. But then there was everyday life: the Rebbe’s Minchah and Maariv, seeing the Rebbe. And of course we watched his calm, his quiet: how he would open the siddur, put on his gartel, and while putting it on, check whether there was a new face. He would notice him immediately. You could see that the Rebbe had noticed someone: a Sephardi standing there, saying Kaddish. He would begin saying it, you know, right in front of the Rebbe, and the Rebbe would look at him with such affection and compassion.

58:25 Speaker 9 In the nusach of the Sephardim, of the Edot HaMizrach.

58:27 Speaker 3 Then we get to [unclear], and I see the Rebbe at [unclear]. Listen, who else was there?

58:33 Speaker 9 [Unclear]?

58:34 Speaker 3 Come on, now you’re bringing in 5730. This was still 5731. It was only in the group. He stood opposite the Rebbe and said Kaddish, when you mentioned [unclear]. From that moment, everyone at the minyan knew I would be going out at [unclear]. That set off an alarm. But then the Rebbe would put on his gartel, take his siddur from the table, and, in one movement as he closed it, put his fingers in place before tucking in the gartel. And he would stand there without making movements. If anything changed, Menachem and I would turn the world upside down. We watched every day: at Minchah, how he said Ashrei, or [unclear], and [unclear], and Lechu. He would repeat words twice, as he did during the Torah reading on Shabbos while waiting for the sefer Torah: “Ashrei shekachah lo, ashrei shekachah lo.” I watched him and heard him saying the words. He would say them, repeat them, and do the same with his gartel. After the shiur ended, he would close the siddur like this. He had the key to his room. He would reach toward the table and murmur—

59:52 Speaker 9 He would already take the key from the table.

59:53 Speaker 3 Yes.

59:54 Speaker 9 Before leaving the small room.

59:56 Speaker 3 He would move his hand like this, look around at the people, and go out with the siddur in one hand and the key in the other, opening the door.

1:00:11 Speaker 9 The door of the small room.

1:00:12 Speaker 3 And if someone was standing behind him and the Rebbe wanted to speak to him, he would turn his head like this. The person immediately understood that the Rebbe wanted him. Either he would go over, or the Rebbe would stop by the mezuzah and say something to him, or he would go into the room with him. Otherwise the Rebbe would leave on his own. If someone wanted to say hello or exchange a few words—some “gezunte reid”—that was how it happened. For most people who wanted a few words with him, that was the place.

1:00:41 Speaker 9 And then he would go straight into his room.

1:00:44 Speaker 3 Yes.

1:00:44 Speaker 9 A big yasher koach, Rabbi Segal, for joining us to refresh ourselves, to relive and experience those eternal moments, those moments you were privileged to spend with the Rebbe. As we said, this is the first installment of your memories. With Hashem’s help, next week we’ll have the continuation, about daily life in Beis Moshiach and about the extraordinary yechidus you were privileged to have with the Rebbe. We hope you have indeed been refreshed and gained new life and vitality. And with Hashem’s help, very soon we will all see the Rebbe and meet him again. Good news.