Zionism According to the Approach of Our Rebbeim

00:01 Speaker 1 Today, with Hashem’s help, we’ll speak for as much time as He gives us. We’ll discuss the subject we were asked to address here: Eretz Yisroel. What is the Rebbe’s approach? What is Chabad’s approach to the whole question of Eretz Yisroel? First, we need to say what kind of conversation this is. We’re speaking privately with bochurim—serious, inward-focused people, chassidishe yeshiva bochurim. They should know the Rebbe’s true approach to this whole subject of Eretz Yisroel, Zionism, the State of Israel, and so on. We’ll discuss some things that call for caution, and it’s good for bochurim to know about them. But not everything a person knows needs to be told to everyone. Chassidim have a saying about telling the truth. The Torah says, “Keep far from falsehood,” but it doesn’t say that you have to say everything that is true. In other words, you must be careful not to lie. That’s certain; lying is forbidden. But not everything that’s true needs to be said. So a person always needs to use his judgment. Why are we discussing this subject? One reason is that it’s relevant to bochurim on mivtzoim. They go out on mivtzoim and people ask them questions. They need to know what to answer—and have the judgment to know what to answer, whom to answer, when to answer, and so on. I don’t need to pour everything I know onto every person. Chassidim have another saying: there’s such a thing as truth out of place. A person says something true, but not in the right setting. Truth out of place is no good either. Yes, it’s true, but it’s out of place. What’s an example? Suppose a person studies Chassidus

02:48 Speaker 1 and reflects at length on the meaning of “The truth of Hashem endures forever.” Then he comes to davening and reflects on it throughout the entire davening. He reaches Shema Yisroel and cries out, “Hear, O Israel, Hashem is our G-d, Hashem is truth!” He has been reflecting on “The truth of Hashem endures forever,” so the words that come out are “Hashem is our G-d, Hashem is truth.” Is that true? Yes, it’s true, but it’s out of place. This isn’t where you say “truth.” In any event, this is a sacred matter. Not all the stories we’ll hear today are for sharing. There are many stories, private stories, that need to stay within these four walls. Each person needs to use his mind and judgment to know what he should explain to others and what he shouldn’t. That, too, is a sacred teaching. Now, to the subject itself. Chabad’s connection with Eretz Yisroel began long before Zionism. From the very beginning, all the Rebbeim had a very strong connection with Eretz Yisroel. Everyone knows that the Baal Shem Tov tried with all his might to travel to Eretz Yisroel. He set out, reached Turkey, and even boarded a ship. But Hakadosh Boruch Hu did not want him to go, and all kinds of troubles arose along the way. The ship broke apart, there was a storm, robbers came and nearly killed him, and he went through all sorts of turmoil. It’s known that the Baal Shem Tov was saved on Acharon Shel Pesach, and that’s one of the reasons for the whole custom of Seudas Moshiach—the Baal Shem Tov’s meal. Among Polish chassidim, many celebrate it on Acharon Shel Pesach as the Baal Shem Tov’s meal. We call it Seudas Moshiach. That is because he was saved from the troubles he faced at sea. So we know that the Baal Shem Tov tried, and tried more than once. In the end it didn’t work out. That’s—

04:54 Speaker 1 After that, we know that the Alter Rebbe also tried to travel to Eretz Yisroel and even set out on the journey. He reached Mohilev, a place near the sea where the ship was supposed to depart for Turkey, together with Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Vitebsk, Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Horodok. The Alter Rebbe was already there with all his bundles, everything ready, together with his whole family. But when he arrived, Rabbi Mendel of Horodok—who was, for the Alter Rebbe, half a Rebbe and half a friend—spoke to him. Rabbi Mendel of Horodok was many years older than the Alter Rebbe. Some say he had even visited the Baal Shem Tov several times, because he was so much older. After the Maggid’s passing, the Alter Rebbe regarded Rabbi Mendel of Horodok both as a Rebbe and as a friend. So when Rabbi Mendel traveled to Eretz Yisroel, the Alter Rebbe traveled too. When they reached the sea, they were about to board. Then Rabbi Mendel of Horodok asked the Alter Rebbe, “What will become of the chassidim if we leave? What will become of Chassidus in Russia? All of Vays Rusland, all of White Russia, Lithuania—it belongs to Chassidus.” The Alter Rebbe understood that he was not meant to go. It was an enormous act of mesirus nefesh. Rabbi Mendel of Horodok went to Eretz Yisroel. Reb Avraham of Kalisk went to Eretz Yisroel—those tzaddikim who were older. The Alter Rebbe had indeed set out, but he accepted the directive, accepted what his role would be, and returned to Russia. Then, under the authority of Rabbi Mendel of Horodok, the Alter Rebbe became the leader of Chabad Chassidus in Russia. And although the Alter Rebbe himself did not travel to Eretz Yisroel, he sent groups there. The Alter Rebbe founded the kollel. At first it was a kollel for everyone, for chassidim in general; it was not yet Kollel Chabad.

06:56 Speaker 1 By the way, two groups went up in those years. I’m speaking now about the years of the Alter Rebbe, after the Maggid’s passing, in 5536–5537—that is, about 230 years ago. At that time, two large groups traveled from Russia. One was a group of misnagdim, students of the Vilna Gaon. Historically, this is called the aliyah of the Vilna Gaon’s students. One of its leaders was a student of his named Rabbi Yisroel of Shklov, I believe. The other group went with Rabbi Mendel of Horodok; that was the aliyah of the chassidim. These were two waves of aliyah in the same period, a few years apart. They weren’t exactly one aliyah. There were the misnagdim and the chassidim, and from them grew two large communities in Eretz Yisroel. A trace of them remains to this day: the community of the chassidim and the community of the Perushim. There is still a shul in Jerusalem. We have someone here descended from an ancestor of ours, Rabbi Safra; that’s what they were called. Later, in the time of the Mitteler Rebbe—well, it’s known that the Alter Rebbe’s chassidim lived mainly in Tiberias and Tzfas. The Mitteler Rebbe then sent chassidim to Chevron. The Mitteler Rebbe founded the Chabad community in Chevron, a community that lasted many years. The chassidim did not want to go. The Mitteler Rebbe taught so much Chassidus—there was such an abundance of maamarim—that the chassidim wanted to stay and hear Chassidus. But the Mitteler Rebbe wanted to send the prominent chassidim. So, to persuade them, the Mitteler Rebbe did two things.

11:42 Speaker 1 One thing: the Mitteler Rebbe promised them that he would send writings to the Land of Israel, that he would send many manuscripts of maamarim there. And that is indeed what happened. The Mitteler Rebbe sent manuscripts to the Land of Israel. In fact, many maamarim of the Mitteler Rebbe that have been published today were not in the Lubavitcher Rebbe’s library. They were found in the Land of Israel, in the National Library in Jerusalem, at the university there. Many manuscripts of the Mitteler Rebbe’s maamarim, copied by chassidim, were found there. One of them, for example, is Imrei Binah, volume three. Everyone knows the book Imrei Binah, but there was another volume that had not been printed until some years ago—about twenty years ago—and it was printed from a manuscript in the university library in Jerusalem. The Mitteler Rebbe would actually send manuscripts, even manuscripts in his own handwriting. He was so involved in building up the community in Chevron. And as if that weren’t enough, the Mitteler Rebbe sent his daughter to live in Chevron. That was Rebbetzin Menucha Rochel and her husband, Rabbi Yaakov Kuli Slonim, who is [unclear] of the shliach Tony Slonim[?]. Somewhere along the line. Yes, Rebbetzin Menucha Rochel was the Mitteler Rebbe’s daughter. To strengthen the Chabad Jewish community in Chevron, the Mitteler Rebbe sent his daughter to live there. Large families grew from them, and to this day there are tens of thousands of grandchildren and later descendants of the Mitteler Rebbe.

13:21 Speaker 12 The second time?

13:22 Speaker 1 Huh?

13:23 Speaker 12 Second time?

13:24 Speaker 1 He sent manuscripts, and he sent his daughter. Those were the two things. One of the stories they tell—just by the way, about the Rebbe’s family—is that she was truly a Rebbetzin. According to the stories, she performed wonders and all sorts of things. One story the Frierdiker Rebbe tells, just by the way, is that Rebbetzin Menucha Rochel wasn’t so eager to travel to the Land of Israel, and he tried to persuade her. The Mitteler Rebbe urged her to go. She didn’t really want to, and once she said why she didn’t want to travel to the Land of Israel: she had heard that it rains a lot there, and she didn’t like rain. So the Mitteler Rebbe promised her that she would never get wet. She’s not gonna get all wet. From the rain. Huh? And they say that the blessing came true: throughout all the many years she lived in the Land of Israel, it never happened that—the wording there is that she “walked between the raindrops,” I think. I don’t know whether that means literally between the drops, or that somehow it always worked out that the rain didn’t fall on her. In any case, yes, the Mitteler Rebbe. So he built up the Chabad community in Chevron. Afterward, the Tzemach Tzedek continued the work. He, too, sent chassidim to Chevron, and he continued expanding the community there. Yes, there are quite a few letters about it. And Chabad’s presence grew further in the time of the Tzemach Tzedek. But all this was still the Land of Israel before the complications of Zionism. It was before the whole concept of Zionism had even been created. It was simply an entirely holy undertaking, and the whole idea was to travel to the Land of Israel for the sake of going to the Land of Israel. Among chassidim, the Land of Israel was always connected with serving Hashem, serving Hashem in the way of Chassidus, with a special kind of holiness

15:41 Speaker 1 and purity. We want to draw closer to G-dliness. So in the Land of Israel one can draw closer to G-dliness more strongly than outside it. Yes, as the Rebbe writes several times in Igeres Hakodesh, the Land of Israel is the gate of heaven, and there—the revelation of the Shechinah is present there more than anywhere else in the world. So chassidim always had the desire to go, yes, to move to the Land of Israel, just as Jews in every generation have always wanted to move to the Holy Land. Among chassidim, that was a fundamental thing. On the other hand, in the time of the Tzemach Tzedek we find the well-known story everyone knows: one of the great chassidim of his time wanted to move to the Land of Israel. He went to the Tzemach Tzedek to ask to go, and the Tzemach Tzedek told him no. He told him not to travel to the Land of Israel. The chossid kept pleading, and the Tzemach Tzedek told him the famous saying: “Reb Hillel doesn’t want to travel to the Land of Israel, and you do? Make the Land of Israel here.” That was the wording. Part of it is certainly well known, but what the Tzemach Tzedek said was: Reb Hillel doesn’t need to travel to the Land of Israel. Reb Hillel lived in the time of the Tzemach Tzedek. He was the chossid Reb Hillel. Who was on a higher level than Reb Hillel? Reb Hillel was the holiest, greatest chossid—a half-Rebbe. So if Reb Hillel isn’t asking to travel to the Land of Israel, why do you need to ask? So the Tzemach Tzedek told him: “Make the Land of Israel here.” Huh?

17:20 Speaker 14 Not there.

17:22 Speaker 1 In other words, something changed in the time of the Tzemach Tzedek. Yes, you could say that the Tzemach Tzedek began demanding something different. Although the Tzemach Tzedek himself expanded the—the—the community in Chevron and invested a great deal of money in it and so on, nevertheless, that saying of his is fundamental. We later see the Rebbeim using it. The Rebbe in particular used it extensively as a foundation of the Chabad Chassidus approach: “Make the Land of Israel here.” Our avodah now, during exile, is not to move to the Land of Israel, but to make the Land of Israel outside the Land of Israel. The idea is that a Jew is now wherever he finds himself and elevates nogah there into holiness and so on. He makes the Land of Israel in the place where he is. That changed the whole approach: moving to the Land of Israel is not necessarily our task now, our purpose in life. The task is to make the lands outside Israel into the Land of Israel. But if we look a little at the history of this, around that period Zionism began to emerge. So some people want to connect the Tzemach Tzedek’s statement to the fact that he was already tempering the drive to move to the Land of Israel, because the Land of Israel was beginning to become something taken up by outside forces. It was beginning to become a political issue. People began using it for purposes connected with outside forces, with the Maskilim, as we’ll now begin to discuss. So already then, the Rebbeim’s approach began to be that our avodah is not to move to the Land of Israel; rather, it is to make the Land of Israel here, in keeping with the idea of making a dwelling for Hashem in the lower realms. What happened in that period? This really began in the time of the Rebbe Maharash. If we look at it historically,

19:20 Speaker 1 in terms of what happened in practice, the story begins in the time of the Rebbe Maharash. But of course, everything takes time to develop. We’re talking about the period of the Rebbe Maharash, roughly a hundred and twenty years ago—the years 5631, 5641, around then. At that time, in Russia, Germany and several other places, there were the Maskilim. By Maskilim I don’t mean chassidim who were learned thinkers. I mean the Maskilim of the Haskalah. What do you call them—Enlightenment thinkers? That’s the short term. Huh? Enlightenment thinkers. Huh? The Maskilim—they were unfortunate people themselves. Explaining their history would take a class of its own. The Maskilim were a movement that began in the Rebbe’s time. They started in Germany. What was the name of the leader who started the whole Haskalah movement? Their aim was to make Judaism more modern: to bring in a bit of fashion, a bit of secular studies, to connect Judaism more with the world, so that religious Jews, so that Judaism, wouldn’t be seen as so primitive. They wanted to make it something more modern, and then they began introducing all kinds of rules and changes. Gradually, it developed into what we have today—the Reform and Conservative movements, and all the names they go by today. That was the Maskilim. They started in Germany, spread to other places and tried to enter Russia as well. Then a very great struggle began, starting in the Rebbe’s time. But the major struggle was in the time of the Tzemach Tzedek. Everyone knows that the Tzemach Tzedek spent more than half a year in Petersburg at the rabbinical conference. The Tzemach Tzedek was arrested twenty-two times because he fought the government, which supported the Maskilim. And the Tzemach Tzedek, together with Reb Itzele of Volozhin—the Misnagdim and [unclear]—fought the Maskilim.

21:34 Speaker 15 When was that?

21:36 Speaker 1 The Maskilim came from Germany to Russia. They wanted to build their institutions in Russia. Not only did they want to—they succeeded, because the government gave them a great deal. The Russian government gave them a lot of power. They wanted it to happen. They convinced the government that it was in Russia’s interest and in the government’s interest. And there were meetings, large meetings, and the Tzemach Tzedek already had enough [unclear]. I’m skipping over things here. Let’s go back for a moment. What I want to say is that the Maskilim had considerable power then. To some extent, they managed to bring their ideas in. Although, boruch Hashem, through the efforts of the Tzemach Tzedek, they did not gain too much power, they still had enough. At least as far as the government was concerned, they had a lot of money and a lot of backing to do whatever they wanted. In any case, in the time of the Rebbe Maharash, the spirit of Zionism began to emerge in Europe. It began through the Maskilim. The leader of Zionism was called Herzl—Theodor Herzl. His Hebrew name was Binyamin Ze’ev. Herzl was a Maskil, a Jew with no connection to Yiddishkeit at all. He came from an assimilated family. He had no connection with Judaism whatsoever. He was Jewish, but no more than that. He was completely distant from Yiddishkeit, and he was one of the leaders of the Maskilim where he lived in Austria, wherever exactly he lived. He began to dream about this at a time when there was a very great crisis.

23:23 Speaker 15 When was this—the Tzemach Tzedek?

23:24 Speaker 1 This was already in the time of the Rebbe Maharash.

23:27 Speaker 15 What year?

23:28 Speaker 1 Hmm? Well, around 5640.

23:33 Speaker 15 Was he the grandson of a Maskil?

23:34 Speaker 1 The Maskilim, hmm?

23:38 Speaker 15 The grandson of a Maskil?

23:39 Speaker 1 He was a Maskil. He was the grandson of Maskilim. His grandfather was one of the leading Maskilim. His father came from an assimilated family, descended from the Maskilim. He himself no longer had any connection to Yiddishkeit at all. But there was a major crisis then among the leaders of the Maskilim. They saw that their approach had not succeeded. What was the whole purpose of the Haskalah? They were convinced that if they made the Haskalah more modern—sorry, if they made Judaism more modern, more open—it would reduce antisemitism. Right? That was the whole aim. Well, their aim was to be able to do what they wanted, to live as they pleased. But the stated ideology of the Maskilim was that there was hatred of Jews, terrible antisemitism in the world, and the only way to break it was for Jews not to be so insular, so visibly different, but to be more like everyone else. In other words, the Haskalah. But they saw it wasn’t working. Generation after generation passed, and antisemitism only grew worse. That was when all the pogroms began, in 5641 and 5642—the great pogroms in Russia, in which hundreds of thousands of Jews were killed. Pogroms—something dreadful, rachmana litzlan, in history. The masses in Russia rose up. There were very wicked, cruel people among them. They invented an accusation that the Jews were to blame for all the world’s troubles. There were terrible pogroms in which people were killed. In short, the Maskilim saw that their approach wasn’t working.

25:34 Speaker 16 We weren’t talking about Zionism.

25:37 Speaker 1 Hmm?

25:37 Speaker 16 We weren’t talking about Zionism.

25:39 Speaker 1 Of course, when a non-Jew kills, he doesn’t make distinctions. Zionism didn’t exist yet. One moment. What happened was that Herzl was a very important leader among the Maskilim, highly regarded by his people. At first he came up with a proposal. Listen to this fine proposal: to eliminate antisemitism, all the Jews should convert to Christianity. You hear? That’s it. Finished. Hmm? Convert—how do you say “convert”? [unclear]. The Jews would become Christians, like the Christians, and that would solve it. And many actually did so. Many of the Maskilim converted at that time, because they simply thought that by doing so... Well, of course, a great dispute then broke out among them, a great deal of politics. He saw that this would not work, and then the dream of Eretz Yisroel began. The idea was that the only way Jews could live in peace was to have a state. They would have a state, a political organization, they would have power, and that would be the way to save the Jewish people. If the Jewish people had a separate state, they would have the power to stand up for themselves. As things were, the Jewish people were scattered in exile, with no leadership or support, belonging to no state, and so they had no power. Let them have a state like the other nations. No, they did not mean a state in Eretz Yisroel. They did not mean anything holy at all. They simply meant a state as a national matter. How do you say it in Spanish? As a matter of, uh... something national, uh...

27:21 Speaker 16 Language.

27:21 Speaker 1 I think there’s another word. Yes? I think there’s another word. [unclear]. In any case, that was his goal: a state, a state with power like the other states. Just as there is Russia and there is Poland, there would be a Jewish state, and they would have power. Herzl was so far removed from the whole concept that he did not even want Eretz Yisroel. His dream, his proposal, was to establish a state in Uganda. Uganda. Uganda is a country. That’s what we call it in Spanish. Uganda is... like some place [unclear]. Is that Uganda? Uganda is a country, somewhere in Africa. Entebbe is there, in Uganda. Herzl was the one who proposed it. What was his idea? That was the beginning of the idea of Zionism. The idea of Zionism began with a state in Uganda. What do I mean? The Maskilim had already been around in the time of the Alter Rebbe, wanting to eliminate the antisemitism that existed then throughout the world. There was Tsar Nicholas, the Cantonists began—all kinds of things. Jews suffered throughout the years, throughout the generations. And the Maskilim thought that if Jews became a bit more civilized, a bit more worldly, a bit more fashionable and savvy, they would get along in the world. Fifty years later, they saw that it had not worked. So they came up with this clever idea: the Jews would have a state and political power, and then nobody would start up with them and they could live in peace. That was how it began. That was the beginning of the Zionist idea, and the plan was for them to go to Uganda, buy very large tracts of land there, and build a state. That caused another dispute among the Zionists: Uganda? If there was going to be a state, let it be in Eretz Yisroel. In the end, the idea of going to Uganda was dropped, and they began to develop the idea of going to Eretz Yisroel. In between there was

30:04 Speaker 1 another idea: Argentina. Argentina was also one of the dreams at that time. This was in those years, a little later. It was already in Herzl’s time. Baron Hirsch, one of Herzl’s followers and one of the great wealthy men of that period, argued that they should establish a Jewish state in Argentina. He bought very large tracts of land and sent many people there. He sent them to Argentina, and in those years—we’re talking about roughly 110 years ago, let’s say—thousands of Jews came from Russia, Poland, and all kinds of places. They built the towns here, places like Moisés Ville and Basavilbaso. Well, yes, Palacio. There are many villages here, shtetlach, that were simply Jewish. They built them with Jewish names and Jewish significance. There was a shul there and a Sefer Torah and so on. Who was behind it? He was called Baron Hirsch. Baron Hirsch was a very wealthy man. He bought all the land and paid for everyone who wanted to go. The dream was to make a Jewish state here in Argentina. What happened in practice? Of course, most of them were not religious, but there were some religious people among them, a small number of the Jews who came here. And of course, those who were religious—their children no longer were, because they hadn’t thought about the next generation. Everyone was thinking only about saving himself, because there was a lot of deception. He promised them that when they came here, they would have bread... a land flowing with milk and honey. But in practice, he brought them here and they were given nothing. They were given fields with nothing on them, and had to build everything themselves. They simply didn’t have even the bare minimum. People died here.

32:15 Speaker 1 There are lots and lots of hardships here. Right? Where do you live? Concordia? Dundas? Who even knows? Santa Fe. Yes, Santa Fe, sorry. All right, I don’t really know that story very well. Huh? What’s that? What’s that? Mr. Montefiore[unclear], and there’s Eretz Yisroel. Yes, in Eretz Yisroel. No, no, that’s not it. They had no water or food. They didn’t. Nothing. That’s how they lived. Nothing. In Eretz Yisroel. Wait, there was still nothing in Eretz Yisroel then. Nothing. In other words, it hadn’t happened yet. It was still only a dream. So in those years, groups formed in Russia. That was when Zionism began. Zionism was the idea of finally going up to Eretz Yisroel and making it a Jewish state—but not a holy state. A national Jewish state, a place where Jewish people could live, a state like any other. They would have strength, political power, and they would act, lead the world, and have everything they wanted. What happened then? Two groups in Russia began working on this. One was called Chibas Tziyon, or, for short, Zionists, and the other was called Bilu. Have you ever heard of Bilu? Bilu is an acronym for “Beis Yaakov, lechu veneilcha”—“House of Yaakov, come, let us go.” That was Bilu. There are still traces of Bilu today, and some other trace of it too. I think it hardly exists anymore, but... They saw, of course, that if only the maskilim were involved, it wouldn’t work. If only the maskilim worked on it, it would go nowhere. They wanted all Jews to want to go. So they understood that, for it to succeed, religious people would also have to become enthusiastic about it. So the maskilim went—

34:37 Speaker 1 and held meetings with various leading Torah scholars, trying to get them excited about the idea of settling Eretz Yisroel. To present it as a mitzvah—you can’t tell a religious person, “We just want to establish a state like the non-Jewish nations in Eretz Yisroel,” and expect anyone to want to go. Of course, settling Eretz Yisroel is a very great mitzvah. Throughout all the generations of exile, Jews always thought about settling Eretz Yisroel, and for someone who could go there, it was the dream of a lifetime. Settling Eretz Yisroel is a mitzvah. There is a dispute—this is relevant here—among the Rishonim about whether settling Eretz Yisroel after the Destruction is a mitzvah or not. The Ramban—the Ramban is even more emphatic than the Rambam—rules that there is a mitzvah to be in Eretz Yisroel. Settling Eretz Yisroel is a Torah mitzvah. A Jew who goes to live in Eretz Yisroel even during exile fulfills a Torah mitzvah. That is the Ramban’s position. Some say the Rambam holds this way too. Now, the Rambam discusses this somewhere—toward the end of the Rambam, in Shoftim, in Hilchos Melachim, or perhaps before that; I don’t remember where—what the law is regarding settling Eretz Yisroel during exile. [unclear] It is known that the Rambam himself wanted to go to Eretz Yisroel. In the end, he was there for only seven days and had to flee. The Ramban also went to Eretz Yisroel. The Ramban passed away in Eretz Yisroel. In any case, back to our subject. They knew that without religious Jews it wouldn’t work, so they approached various leading Torah scholars. And a number of those scholars became very, very enthusiastic about—

36:25 Speaker 1 the idea. Several leading Torah scholars saw it as something very positive. Among those who supported Zionism at the time—and their names are well known—one of the most prominent was Rabbi Tzvi Hirsch Kalischer, a very important rabbi. There was also Rabbi Shmuel Mohilever, and another one whose name I don’t remember. There were important rabbis then. They weren’t chassidim, but they were very important, widely respected rabbis. They became excited about the idea of settling Eretz Yisroel, about Zionism, and argued, based on various passages in the Gemara and elsewhere in Shas, that this was indeed what should happen. We shouldn’t wait for Moshiach to come from heaven and take the Jews to Eretz Yisroel. They brought all sorts of proofs from various places that Jews awakening on their own to go to Eretz Yisroel is a spark of holiness. Yes, the people who proposed it were secular—the maskilim—but since they were Jews, it was ultimately a Jewish spark. We shouldn’t spoil it. On the contrary, if religious Jews got involved, they could turn it into a religious Jewish endeavor, rather than a secular one like those elsewhere in the world. That was the position of the rabbis who supported it. The rabbis who opposed it argued that you could tell by its source what it was. Where did this whole drive for a return to Tziyon come from? From what—from the kelipos? Who did it come from? It came from the maskilim. That meant there could be no holiness in it. Its source was certainly kelipah. So they came out against it and fought it. One of the well-known Chabad stories on this subject concerns the Rebbe Maharash. People came to ask the Rebbe Maharash to take part in the movement for a return to Tziyon. They came specifically—

38:22 Speaker 1 from the Bilu organization. They approached the Rebbe Maharash, and he told them, “No, under no circumstances.” They began arguing, so the Rebbe Maharash said, “It’s very simple. The verse says, ‘Beis Yaakov, lechu veneilcha be’or Hashem’—‘House of Yaakov, come, let us walk in the light of Hashem.’ What are the initials of your organization? Bilu stands for ‘Beis Yaakov, lechu veneilcha.’ It stops exactly before the words ‘in the light of Hashem.’ ‘In the light of Hashem’ is left out of the acronym. If you add the words ‘in the light of Hashem’ to your group’s name, I will take fifty thousand chassidim and go up to Eretz Yisroel.” Those were the words of the Rebbe Maharash: if they added “in the light of Hashem” to Bilu, he would take fifty thousand chassidim to Eretz Yisroel that very day. Well, since the Rebbe Maharash did not go to Eretz Yisroel, they obviously were not prepared to add “in the light of Hashem.” But, of course, that revealed the root of the whole matter and their real aim. It was a matter of “the House of Israel will be like all the nations.”

39:34 Speaker 17 Even the

39:38 Speaker 1 No, of course. So what were the religious rabbis who supported it thinking? They thought they would be able to influence it from within. They would be able to persuade people and transform it. They would be able to gather... the holiness of Eretz Yisroel would have an effect—all sorts of dreams that they thought would work in that way. Yes. Huh? No, no, no, no. Bilu became [unclear]. I don’t know, I don’t know. Those were different institutions. I mean, [unclear]. What’s the word in Hebrew? They were different organizations, you understand? That was in the time of the Rebbe Maharash. In the time of the Rebbe Rashab, this struggle became much greater. That was when the main battle took place. Little by little, the issue began to heat up. It became the subject everyone discussed, with great intensity. For how many years? You could say from around 5640 to 5671. During those thirty years, this was the burning political issue among Jews: Zionism or no Zionism. Yes to this, no to that. The Rebbe Rashab was one of the fiercest opponents of Zionism among the religious rabbis. The Rebbe Rashab wrote thousands of letters and threw himself into the issue with all his strength. He fought it with all his strength and suffered greatly because of it. So much so that the Frierdiker Rebbe—one of the... In 5662, one of the most heated periods in the whole affair—5662, or 5663, if I’m not mistaken—that was the year they officially announced plans to establish a state in Eretz Yisroel. That was when things began. It was in those years. It was a very heated period. The Rebbe Rashab fought it with all his strength then. By the way, the yeshiva—

42:06 Speaker 1 Tomchei Temimim—there is a letter from the Frierdiker Rebbe in which he writes that the Rebbe Rashab founded Tomchei Temimim to fight Zionism. That is what he writes: the purpose of founding Tomchei Temimim was to fight Zionism. The Rebbe Rashab saw Zionism growing stronger and drawing in the younger generation. At the time, many boys from religious homes left religious life because of Zionism. Zionism became something like—a craze, you could say. The modern Zionists began drawing people in with the idea of Eretz Yisroel. They fired up the young people. Young boys were looking for something exciting, something with a bit of energy and strength, and this idea fired them up: We have Eretz Yisroel; we’ll take the land and build there. Pioneers, pioneers, going to settle the land. “Pioneers”—how do you say it? Pioneers. We’ll go to the Land and build a state. Then all sorts of organizations began springing up abroad, with all sorts of names. One was called Poalei Zion. There was even an organization in Lubavitch itself called Poalei Zion. I once told you about them—they were called the [unclear]. Yes, it’s recorded. They were a group in Lubavitch itself, and they caused a lot of trouble. So the Rebbe Rashab founded Tomchei Temimim because he saw Zionism gaining tremendous strength, and many, many—may Hashem have mercy—thousands and tens of thousands of young people from religious homes, homes of Torah and mitzvos, were being led astray in droves. The whole idea of Zionism had a powerful appeal; it was something revolutionary. So he founded Tomchei Temimim to save the younger generation from it. The Rebbe Rashab said that with the strength of the chassidim, we would be able to win them over.

44:12 Speaker 1 And that is indeed what happened. Ultimately, it is a Torah of life. First of all, it saved people. Those who were saved at that time were saved. It saved hundreds and thousands who merited to study in Tomchei Temimim in those years. Beyond that, Tomchei Temimim later spread, and its students became rabbis and shluchim—the very people who subsequently fought all these things. And there is that well-known sicha. If you read the sicha “Whoever Goes Out to the War of the House of David,” it says so explicitly. In the middle of that sicha, the Rebbe Rashab speaks about “Your enemies have taunted, Hashem; they have taunted the footsteps of Your Moshiach.” There is the Society for the Dissemination of Enlightenment, and he denounces them there in the strongest terms. Then he writes that there is another, new group: those who want to go up to Eretz Yisroel and build it. They reverse the verse, “Hashem builds Jerusalem; He gathers in the dispersed of Israel.” They think it should be the other way around: first the dispersed of Israel will gather—and they will gather themselves—and afterward they will build Jerusalem. They take the verse in reverse order, and he expresses the hope that it will not succeed, and so on. But in practice, that was when it was beginning. The founder of Tomchei Temimim was fighting the Zionists, and there he writes that the Temimim, chassidim who study this, are a weapon of war: “Not by might and not by power, but by My spirit.” Through the learning of the Temimim, they would be able to overcome all these things. And what happened? At that time, in 5662, people knew that the Rebbe Rashab was fighting this whole movement, and they caused all sorts of trouble. Rabbis were involved in these battles. There were very serious struggles then. It was not simple. They—

46:01 Speaker 1 They wanted to kill the Rebbe. There was an incident in 5662 when the Frierdiker Rebbe was on a train and a young man suddenly approached him. There was a different story involving the Rebbe Maharash. There was also this incident in 5662. The Rebbe Maharash’s was a different story. On the train, he saw a young man sitting there. Then the Rebbe approached the young man and said to him, “Give me what you have in your hand.” There was also a story with the Rebbe Maharash, but that is another story. Yes, with the Rebbe Maharash it involved the maskilim, while with the Frierdiker Rebbe it involved the Zionists. The Frierdiker Rebbe. They wanted to—“Give me what you have in your hand.” He shouted at him very forcefully and took the gun from him. I don’t remember exactly how the details went or how the story continued, but following that incident, the Frierdiker Rebbe was imprisoned. It was one of his arrests. The Frierdiker Rebbe spent several days in prison; it was one of the six times he was imprisoned, that summer of 5662. What else happened? Yes, there was also—in 5662. Later, in 5666, they came again. They took one of the Lubavitch boys, a boy who was somewhat vulnerable; they got hold of him and brought him over to their side. Then the boys from Lubavitch came and took him back. Yes, that happened. There was a whole story of the boy going back and forth. Then they came to Tomchei Temimim and broke all the windows and chairs. At that time, on Motzaei Shabbos Kodesh, they also fired shots. Yes, they wanted to kill the Frierdiker Rebbe and fired into his room. By a miracle—who was there?

47:55 Speaker 1 No one was hurt at all. They wrecked the whole zal there; it was complete chaos. All of that happened because of the story of a boy they had taken from one place to another. It’s a long story. But to get to the point, at that time the Rebbe Rashab was waging a major struggle against the Zionists. One account from that period can be read in the introduction to Kuntres U’Maayan. It gives a lengthy account, including the letter [unclear]. There is the letter. Reb Shmuel Slonim was also with the Rebbe Rashab then, regarding other matters as well as this one. The Rebbe Rashab then wrote the well-known letter explaining what lay behind Zionism. Put simply, the Rebbe Rashab already saw what the future held: Zionism would not only fail to achieve anything in holiness; on the contrary, its true aim, in the end, was to destroy Judaism, to attack its very walls. They latched on to one mitzvah, but their aim was to undermine other mitzvos. There is a lengthy discussion of it, but that was the period when the Rebbe Rashab fought Zionism. A few years later—at that time, this was how things stood. Among the religious rabbis, some supported Zionism, but one could say that most opposed it. A few years later, though, people had already begun traveling to Eretz Yisroel, and there were terrible pogroms in Russia. In 5664 and 5665, there were very serious pogroms in Russia. There is also the well-known story of the Rebbe Rashab: they told him that if the rabbis did not come together and work with the government, they would carry out

49:51 Speaker 1 So there were pogroms in 101 towns, and they not only [unclear]—they hoped for it. There is the well-known saying of the Rebbe Rashab: he said he was not surprised that only the body went into exile; the soul did not go into exile. The nations have power over the body, but not over the soul. That is the well-known saying of the Rebbe Rashab, who fainted after he finished speaking. The Rebbe Rashab fainted, and afterward he was placed under arrest for speaking against the government. Then Rabbi Chaim Brisker came to visit him and saw him crying. He asked him, “Why are you crying? You did what you could.” He said, “Yes, I did what I could, but we did not accomplish what we set out to do.” This illustrates the difference between a worker and someone who takes ownership. Someone who takes ownership is not satisfied just because he did what he could; he cares whether it made a difference. In any case, that is a well-known story connected with this subject. In practice, the Rebbe Rashab fought very strongly against Zionism. A few years later, some in the religious chassidic community saw that it really was no longer possible to continue living in Russia, and that they needed to move to Eretz Yisroel. So, as a separate undertaking, they formed something called Agudas Yisroel. It was not really part of Zionism, but they worked together in a certain way... In other words, we need to distinguish between the religious groups themselves. Those who supported moving to Eretz Yisroel need to be divided into two groups. One group consisted of the first religious Zionists, who worked directly with the Zionists. They fought battles from within and tried to change things. It did not work out for them, but at least they tried. So much so that when they saw it was not working... I forgot to mention something important. In those years, there was also a great deal of [unclear].

51:38 Speaker 1 When the religious Zionists saw that it was not working, they founded the organization still called Mizrachi today. Not the Mizrachi family—Mizrachi, the Mizrachi movement in Eretz Yisroel. That is when Mizrachi began. Mizrachi was the religious community that supported Zionism, but Zionism with a religious purpose. In other words, Zionism aimed at settling Eretz Yisroel, with everything conducted according to Torah and mitzvos, and so on. That was the religious Zionism of Mizrachi, which later... Huh? Yes, they were completely religious Jews, one hundred percent. Their leader at the time, the one who founded Mizrachi, was Rabbi Reines. Later there was Rabbi Kook, who was... We will mention all these names here. Kook and so on. Huh? They were completely Orthodox. What was distinctive about their approach was that they held that settling Eretz Yisroel is something very great. It is the beginning of the Geulah. That was their view: moving to Eretz Yisroel, this whole idea of Jews going there, is the beginning of the Geulah. That is how they saw it, and therefore, they held that it should be encouraged, while working to ensure that it was done in a religious way. So Torah and mitzvos were foundational for them... but settling Eretz Yisroel was, as it were, the ultimate aim, the goal, the main thing. That is the mitzvah and so on; all of Yiddishkeit is built on it. That is the goal, that is the Geulah. Huh?

53:17 Speaker 18 That is their source in Torah.

53:19 Speaker 1 Their source in Torah is the Jerusalem Talmud. You want to know their source in Torah? Their source is a passage in the Jerusalem Talmud. It says, “For the conductor, on the morning star, a psalm of David.” The Jerusalem Talmud asks: What is the “morning star”? It is when the light begins to appear in the morning, while it is still dark. Here they call it [unclear] dawn. It is when the light begins to come, little by little, while it is still dark. So the morning star appears gradually. The Jerusalem Talmud says that just as the morning light comes gradually, growing brighter and brighter, so too is the Geulah of the Jewish people. How will the Geulah happen? Not that Moshiach will come all at once and the Geulah will follow, but that the Geulah of the Jewish people will be like the morning light. The Jewish people will awaken gradually. In other words, there is a passage in the Jerusalem Talmud indicating that the Geulah will come in this way, as Jews gradually move to Eretz Yisroel—not the ingathering of the exiles all at once through Moshiach Tzidkeinu... Now, if there is such a passage in the Jerusalem Talmud, we will address it shortly. What is the Rebbe’s approach, the Chabad approach? Look, they have a source. What is the problem with it? We will soon address the Rebbe’s approach and this whole subject. Why is there this?

54:43 Speaker 18 Agudas Yisroel.

54:45 Speaker 1 Agudas Yisroel began mainly through very prominent rabbis. Huh? No, wait, wait, wait. No, that is not it. You do not need to mention that. Agudas Yisroel. You mentioned the Rebbe Rashab, so I will actually begin with the Rebbe Rashab. This is how it started. The story of Agudas Yisroel began in 5669. There was a very large gathering. Actually, before that, in 5668, 101 years ago, there was a very large gathering in Russia, held to strengthen authentic religious Judaism in Europe generally and Russia in particular. Jews from across the community were involved. This was connected to the fact that, at the time, the secularist Zionists had begun, rachmana litzlan, to draw in many young people. So they began organizing in order to do something about it. But it was not called Agudas Yisroel then; it was called Chevras Machzikei Hadas. Machzikei Hadas. That was its name at the time. Today it is Belz that is called Machzikei Hadas. In any case, that is how it was then. Chevras Machzikei Hadas was the organization the Rebbe Rashab founded together with Reb Chaim Brisker, Reb Chaim Ozer, and Rabbi Yankel Lipschitz, who was an important rabbi in Russia. Also involved was... In Poland there was the Rebbe of Ger, the Imrei Emes. There were various tzaddikim, great scholars, and important rabbis involved. The Rebbe of Slonim was one of the prominent figures, Rabbi Shimon Slonimsky[?]. They were great figures, both chassidim and Misnagdim, working as a group. It was a fairly good period in that respect: chassidim and Misnagdim lived in peace. Their aim was to fight the Zionists. They fought not only the nonreligious Zionists, but the religious Zionists as well. At the time, they opposed moving to Eretz Yisroel. What happened was... Well, from this, there was also a gathering in 5668.

56:56 Speaker 1 One that the Rebbe of Ger attended. Then, in 5669, there was another gathering where they discussed more than just—really, since we are talking now about Eretz Yisroel, you might think that was all they discussed. They discussed many other matters. This was one of them. At the time, the government in Russia also wanted to enact a decree. They wanted to—they only wanted to. The proposed decree was that all rabbis would have to study at a university. A rabbi could not serve as a rabbi unless he had a diploma, a degree, unless he had studied secular subjects. That was the first issue with the government. There was a struggle over that too. Rabbis were for it, against it, yes, no, halfway, a third of the way. There were several approaches to that as well, and to all sorts of other issues. One of the basic aims was to establish this organization. A year later, in 5669, there was a very large gathering. The Rebbe Rashab was behind the scenes; he was the one who managed the entire gathering. He wrote everything down and arranged it. That was at the time. The Rebbe Rashab writes that—he says “200,000,” using a particular expression there—ink was spilled like water for this gathering, until it could take place, until it came about. In any event, it finally happened. Many rabbis came, the most prominent rabbis from all the countries, and it had many repercussions. What happened was that another gathering was supposed to take place a year later, the well-known gathering called the Katowice Conference. The Katowice Conference was supposed to be a continuation of this gathering, another meeting to turn it more fully into practical action. But at that point, although the Rebbe Rashab had initially been deeply involved, as had the Brisker Rav, Rabbi Chaim, toward the end they began to see that the gathering was moving in the direction of encouraging

58:51 Speaker 1 moving to Eretz Yisroel—actively encouraging people to go there. Now, there was the Rebbe of Ger, who was a very influential leader at the time. The Rebbe of Ger—Ger Chassidus was in Russia; I mean, in Poland. People used to say that half of Poland was Ger and the other half was Alexander. So Ger was an enormous chassidic community. They had several—yes, more than a million people, and he had very great influence. Alongside him were various other Rebbes, rabbis, and tzaddikim who...

59:28 Speaker 19 Who was it?

59:30 Speaker 1 [unclear] The Imrei Emes. The Imrei Emes. [unclear] The Imrei Emes became Rebbe in 5665. His father, the Sfas Emes, passed away in 5665. In 5665, the Imrei Emes became Rebbe, and he was Rebbe until 5708. He passed away in 5708, in Eretz Yisroel. He was Rebbe for more than forty years. So the Imrei Emes was a very strong advocate of moving to Eretz Yisroel. He changed the approach. In other words, he argued that the time had come to move to Eretz Yisroel, though it had to be done entirely independently of the pioneers, the Zionists, and all that. Of course, we would make use of whatever we could, whatever was needed to merit settling Eretz Yisroel, but without any commitments, so as to remain completely separate from them. So those are the two groups I wanted to mention from that time. The Rebbe Rashab announced that he was not going to the meeting after all. It all happened at the last minute. The Rebbe Rashab announced that he would not participate, that he would not enter the meeting. Then Rabbi Chaim of Brisk said he would not go either. That was when the split between the rabbis who supported Agudas Yisroel and those who opposed it became official. What followed developed from there. If you want to know a little history, that is where what we now see in Israeli politics developed from. There were the first religious Zionists, as I mentioned earlier, including Rabbi Kook and the others. They are what are called today charedi-nationalist Jews, or charedi religious-nationalist Jews. That is what it says here on the sheet, Chardal. For anyone who wants to know what Chardal stands for: it is an acronym for charedi religious-nationalist Jews. These are the religious Jews

1:01:36 Speaker 1 who follow the Mizrachi approach, the approach of Rabbi Kook: that the purpose of life is settling Eretz Yisroel, together with strict observance of Judaism, Torah and mitzvos. These were the Jews who lived there in Gaza. They simply lived with mesiras nefesh. In fact, they are the only Jews today who still believe in Eretz Yisroel. Look at Zionism today: nothing remains of secular Zionism. There is no Zionism anymore; it is all nonsense. Today it is all a fight over a seat in the Knesset. Who will have a seat for four years? Who will make the money? There is no ideology. It is not as though there is some Zionist outlook today. Nothing is held sacred. Now, within religious Zionism there are those who are the settlers, what are called the “settlers,” who live in Chevron. They live in truly dangerous places in the Shomron, in the hills of Yehudah, in—what is it called?

1:02:44 Speaker 20 Jerusalem.

1:02:45 Speaker 1 All those places—that is where the settlers are. They are there, they are there. Yehudah, Shomron, Gaza. So that is what happened. That is what developed from the religious Zionists. From the meeting in Katowice, with [unclear] and that whole group, came what is called Agudas Yisroel today. It is still Agudas Yisroel. Agudas Yisroel has Degel HaTorah representing it, and later some of the Misnagdim joined as well. Although Rabbi Chaim of Brisk was against it, other Misnagdim later supported it. And that later led to the founding of Degel HaTorah in Eretz Yisroel, which I am not prepared to discuss. What matters here is that at the last minute the Rebbe Rashab withdrew—or however you want to put it. At the time, people did not understand why the Rebbe Rashab was so opposed. Because Agudas Yisroel really did not follow the Zionist approach, not even that of the religious Zionists. They were not people who said that settling Eretz Yisroel was the beginning of the Geulah. Absolutely not. Rather, they simply saw Hitler beginning to rise to power. In those years, very severe antisemitism began in Romania. They saw the troubles in Russia; the revolution in Russia had begun. That had been a few years earlier, but people could already sense that things were going to happen that would make it impossible to continue living in Europe. Antisemitism was growing enormously. You could not live there; you had to flee. Meanwhile, Eretz Yisroel was being built up. The pioneers were building Eretz Yisroel and were being given permission. The British were in Eretz Yisroel then and gave them permission to build and do various things. So why not?

1:04:30 Speaker 2 Why not America?

1:04:32 Speaker 1 Huh?

1:04:33 Speaker 2 Why not America?

1:04:34 Speaker 1 Because America was a very dangerous place for a Jew to live. It was a country where Jews assimilated. If you wanted to live as a Jew, there was nowhere else. Living in America was impossible then. For a religious Jew, it was impossible to live in America. It simply meant leaving Judaism behind. The Gerer Rebbe would not permit anyone to go to America before the war, under any circumstances.

1:04:57 Speaker 2 Which rabbi?

1:04:59 Speaker 1 He would not permit it.

1:05:00 Speaker 2 Huh?

1:05:01 Speaker 1 A Jew here even told me that he came here, to Argentina, before the war. He was a Gerer chossid. His father was a Gerer chossid, and he told me they went to ask the Gerer Rebbe. The Rebbe said, “Argentina is a treife country.”

1:05:16 Speaker 2 Do I know which Rebbes you went to?

1:05:20 Speaker 1 That was the Munkatcher Rebbe. The Munkatcher was in the Rebbe Rashab’s group. The Munkatcher was an ardent zealot. He was anti-Zionist to an even greater degree.

1:05:32 Speaker 2 Zionist.

1:05:36 Speaker 1 The Munkatcher was fiercely anti-Zionist. He would shout that Zionism was literally idol worship. To him, Zionism was idol worship. It was like wine used for idolatry. [unclear] The Rebbe Rashab once said something remarkable. He said he could not put his objection into words. When they asked the Rebbe Rashab why he was not going to that meeting—the meeting in Katowice at which Agudas Yisroel was founded—he said he would not participate. He said he could not explain it in words, but he felt that it was not right, that it did not smell right, that it was not headed in the right direction. [unclear] The Rebbe even cites this in a maamar. They asked the Rebbe Rashab: “If you give an intellectual reason, then one can respond to it intellectually. But what does it mean to rely on a feeling? You are not going just because it does not feel right to you?”

1:06:52 Speaker 2 He says, “It does not feel right.” He says it does not smell right.

1:06:59 Speaker 1 [unclear] That story. The story of Rabbi [unclear]. So the Rebbe Rashab said that a Jew whose yechidah of the soul shines within him can also rely on his feelings. That is a reason to come. A Jew whose yechidah of the soul shines within him can [unclear]. Huh? [unclear] The story of Rabbi [unclear]. It is in a maamar [unclear]; it is a maamar of the Rebbe. It is also a story. [unclear] Rabbi Shaya said.

1:07:40 Speaker 2 Rabbi Ashkenazi.

1:07:54 Speaker 1 Yes. From that came a major dispute, which perhaps is not worth discussing in detail. Most of the details are not particularly useful either. There was a major dispute then between the Rebbe Rashab and the Gerer Rebbe. It began then and continued, becoming even more difficult. In the time of the Frierdiker Rebbe, many letters went back and forth. The Gerer Rebbe encouraged moving to Eretz Yisroel and supported that whole undertaking, while the Rebbe Rashab was against it. He fought it very strongly, and there was a struggle. Letters went back and forth. There are letters from the Frierdiker Rebbe that the Rebbe did not permit to be printed. That is why I say perhaps we should not get into all the details of the story. When they were preparing to print the Igros Kodesh of the Frierdiker Rebbe and of the Rebbe Rashab, the Rebbe instructed that none of the letters dealing with Agudas Yisroel be printed. So all these letters appear in other books, but not in our books.

1:08:58 Speaker 3 Why?

1:09:00 Speaker 1 Why? There are books such as Chassidic Rebbes and Eretz Yisroel, books published in Eretz Yisroel, and Chassidus in Eretz Yisroel. There are modern books of that sort that people have published. The Satmar chassidim also printed a book about the zealots and all those who opposed the Zionists. They printed all the letters of the Rebbe Rashab and the Frierdiker Rebbe there. Some of the letters are very, very sharp—very sharp indeed.

1:09:34 Speaker 3 What is the problem?

1:09:35 Speaker 1 Huh?

1:09:35 Speaker 3 What is the Rebbe’s problem? What was the Rebbe Rashab’s objection?

1:09:40 Speaker 1 The Rebbe Rashab argued that, in the end, they would have to give an accounting. The very fact that you take part—even if you say, “I’m nothing, I don’t count”—matters. It’s not about what you think your participation means. You have to think about what they think it means. They take it as an agreement that you’re with them, that you’re one of them. So regardless of what they think otherwise, to them it already means that you, too, are a Zionist. And in fact, that is what happened. Eventually, Agudas Yisroel joined the government, had a say there, and worked within the Knesset. It’s not simple. They say that, in the end, you have to accept the reality of the Zionists. That was the Rebbe Rashab’s position, and afterward the Frierdiker Rebbe continued the fight against the Zionists very forcefully. Let’s move on and get to the Rebbe. There are still several important letters from the Frierdiker Rebbe in [unclear].

1:10:41 Speaker 3 I just wanted to say something.

1:10:43 Speaker 1 I can tell you about 5689, 5689. The Frierdiker Rebbe announced that he was traveling to Eretz Yisroel. He was the first and only Chabad Rebbe to travel to Eretz Yisroel. It caused an enormous worldwide stir. There was a tremendous stir throughout the world, even though they tried to keep it secret. But word immediately spread around the world that the Frierdiker Rebbe was traveling to Eretz Yisroel. This was in 5689, while the fight against Zionism was still going on. By the way, I forgot to mention something very important. At the same time that the Rebbe Rashab was fighting the Zionists—there are some very important things I forgot to mention—he was also establishing the Toras Emes yeshiva in Chevron. He bought the courtyard in Chevron, Beis Romano. In other words, on the one hand the Rebbe Rashab fought Zionism, and on the other hand he laid the foundation for Chabad Chassidus in Eretz Yisroel. In 5672—and this is something very important that I forgot to tell you, but it belongs to the history—the Rebbe Rashab sent Reb Zalman Havlin as a mashpia, together with a group of bochurim. There were nine bochurim, and they were the first shluchim. That’s when shlichus began: the first shluchim sent from among the students of Tomchei Temimim Lubavitch to Chevron, in Eretz Yisroel, where they founded the Toras Emes yeshiva. It was established in Cheshvan 5672. The Rebbe Rashab then... The truth is, there had already been Chabad chassidim in Eretz Yisroel before that. Chabad was there before, and there had even been a Chabad yeshiva called Magen Avos. But the Rebbe Rashab saw that if they didn’t send Temimim from Lubavitch, it wouldn’t be what it was meant to be; it would be something else. They weren’t learning Chassidus. It was a yeshiva called Chabad, but it had no real connection to Chabad. In practice, it was

1:12:54 Speaker 1 a yeshiva in Eretz Yisroel where they learned only Gemara all day. They didn’t learn Chassidus because there was no one to teach it. So the Rebbe Rashab saw that if they didn’t send something straight from Lubavitch, it wouldn’t work. In 5672, he sent Reb Zalman Havlin, one of the great chassidim who had grown up in Lubavitch, together with a group of Temimim—the very finest Temimim. Among them were Reb Alter Simchovitch, Reb Hilke Petcher[?], and Reb Shpiegel[?]. Reb Hilke Petcher[?]—people told remarkable stories about him. In other words, these were the very finest, most outstanding bochurim in Lubavitch. They were sent on shlichus to Toras Emes. At the same time, the Rebbe Rashab also paid a great deal of money—thousands, yes?—to buy the courtyard in Chevron. He bought Beis Romano, a courtyard in Chevron, and registered it in his own name, along with various other courtyards: the large courtyard, the small courtyard. I’m not such an expert on exactly how it all worked, but he bought large tracts of property. He also instructed chassidim in Russia to buy houses in Chevron with their money. In other words, even then the Rebbe Rashab was already dreaming about the future. More people would join eventually, as we’ll see later. That was really the foundation of Chabad Chassidus there in its authentic, original form. The Rebbe Rashab founded the yeshiva in Chevron in 5672. In 5689, the Frierdiker Rebbe announced that he was going to travel to Eretz Yisroel. It immediately began appearing in the newspapers, as though the Frierdiker Rebbe, too, was giving his approval, as though he was adding his signature to... Then all kinds of institutions in Eretz Yisroel began sending him letters.

1:14:46 Speaker 1 They came from Religious Zionist organizations and from Agudas Yisroel—all sorts of letters saying “Shalom aleichem” and “Welcome.” The Frierdiker Rebbe wrote a sharp letter. He said he wanted to make it known that no one should arrange a welcome for him. He was not coming in any official capacity, and no one should make anything of his visit. He was not traveling to Eretz Yisroel as an act of aliyah. Nothing of the sort; there was no connection. He was traveling to Eretz Yisroel solely to visit the graves of his ancestors. “Because I left Russia and cannot return there, and my ancestors are buried in Russia, I cannot visit them. I want to visit the graves of my ancestors, so I am traveling to Eretz Yisroel.” That was his purpose. He wrote in very strong terms that no one should even dare to interpret it as meaning anything else. It was only that, and nothing more. And even more than that: when the Frierdiker Rebbe arrived in Eretz Yisroel, he was concerned that people might still make a political affair out of it. So he summoned some of the prominent figures there—leaders of Agudas Yisroel and Mizrachi, and various people involved in religious politics in Eretz Yisroel. He called them in and told them—just look at the Frierdiker Rebbe!—that if anyone dared say a word using his arrival in Eretz Yisroel to imply any involvement in its politics, “I’ll send him as a shliach to the World of Truth.” Those were his words. So you can understand that everyone got the hint, as they say. That put an end to the matter. The Frierdiker Rebbe was in Eretz Yisroel for two weeks, and during that time he

1:16:33 Speaker 1 visited all the graves of tzaddikim. He went to Chevron, went to Meron, went to... It was as though he was completely at home there. The Frierdiker Rebbe spent two weeks in Eretz Yisroel, and there are many stories about the visit. This isn’t the place to go into all the details, because there’s a whole book about it for anyone interested, Masa HaRayatz BaAretz HaKodesh. After that book came out, letters that the Frierdiker Rebbe had written to the Rebbetzin came to light. The Frierdiker Rebbe traveled alone, but every day he wrote a letter to the Rebbetzin, his wife. Those letters were discovered after the book appeared. Of course, not all of them were published, but some were. They are extraordinary letters. The Frierdiker Rebbe describes certain things there in detail. Very special. But he emphasized that his trip to Eretz Yisroel had nothing to do with any other matter; it was only to visit the graves of his ancestors. It’s interesting that two days before 27 Adar, on Shabbos Vayakhel 5752—everyone knows this, and if not, they should know—on Shabbos Vayakhel 5752, in what was the last sicha we have heard from the Rebbe to date, the Rebbe mentioned that the Rebbeim had wanted to go to Eretz Yisroel, but in practice none of them had made aliyah. The Rebbe said that this was known from the Baal Shem Tov onward. None of the Chabad Rebbeim had made aliyah to Eretz Yisroel. Reb Mendel Horodoker had, but he was not a Chabad Rebbe. In any case, none of the Chabad Rebbeim had made aliyah to Eretz Yisroel. Then the Rebbe suddenly said: “But the Frierdiker Rebbe did go to Eretz Yisroel.” As the Frierdiker Rebbe himself said, that was not about Eretz Yisroel; it was about visiting

1:18:27 Speaker 1 The graves of the forefathers. The Rebbe, and as if it didn’t— that makes a big difference. That there wasn’t. Huh? He was in Tel Aviv, he was in Tel Aviv. Why was he there? Yes, that happened. He didn’t need to. Without that. Afterward. Neturei Karta was a different story. Neturei Karta. When the Frierdiker Rebbe arrived, Neturei Karta came to him with the... with the... with the... with the eight garments. What? With the eight garments. Jerusalem, Neturei Karta—we also need to tell one of the stories. We’ll get to Neturei Karta. One of the things, one of the things Neturei Karta stood very firm on was preserving all the Jerusalem customs in this area, out of respect. There must be no change; no one should dare. They fought very hard for it. So whenever prominent rabbis arrived in Jerusalem, they would immediately go to them with the Jerusalem-style clothing: the shtreimel, the... the robe, the kaftan—the way people dressed in Jerusalem. Here, you weren’t allowed to change that. You had to wear it, and many of the great Torah scholars who moved to Jerusalem accepted it. Now, most of them were great Torah scholars who had moved to Jerusalem, so it was almost a condition. You arrived in Jerusalem, and Neturei Karta would come to welcome you. My grandmo—my grandmother was... at the time... my grandmother would sew the... uh, the kaftans, and they would go and give them as a gift. A kaftan and a shtreimel, the outfit. So there were great rabbis who moved to Eretz Yisroel; Rabbi Diskin was one of the great Torah scholars. All sorts of people. No changing things. Where did it start? It doesn’t matter, but the whole foundation of religious life was that you mustn’t make any change. Every change is a breach. Every change is a breach.

1:20:51 Speaker 4 Where did the shamash come from?

1:20:53 Speaker 1 Huh?

1:20:53 Speaker 4 Where did the shamash come from?

1:20:54 Speaker 1 Good question. In any case, when they came to whoever it was... when they came to whoever it was... when they came to whoever it was... When they came to the Frierdiker Rebbe, the Frierdiker Rebbe gave them a sharp look and asked them, “Who made you leaders? Who chose you? Who are you? Who are you to decide?” And then he came down hard on this and that. “Who made you leaders?” And he threw them out. He sensed it.

1:21:34 Speaker 4 How did they get to Eretz Yisroel? Were they from—did they arrive in...

1:21:37 Speaker 1 Who?

1:21:37 Speaker 4 Neturei Karta.

1:21:40 Speaker 1 We’ll tell the whole story in a moment. Wait. Let’s get back to where we were for a moment.

1:21:44 Speaker 4 The whole approach of...

1:21:57 Speaker 1 Far be it from me—there’s an order to these things. But, uh, the Rebbe Rashab wrote in letters about purchasing property in Hebron and all that. He wrote that because the Mitteler Rebbe—the Alter Rebbe and the Mitteler Rebbe, the Tzemach Tzedek—had invested so much of their energy in building the Jewish community in Hebron, he also wanted to, uh, continue that work.

1:22:24 Speaker 4 Simply because it was at that time.

1:22:25 Speaker 1 As though, as though it was— No, because there was a period... That’s a history of its own. The story was that after the Tzemach Tzedek, other grandchildren of the Tzemach Tzedek began to take charge there, not from—not from Lubavitch. The... from Breslav and Migler[unclear], Klaksberg[unclear], began taking control there. So the Rebbe Rashab saw that it was beginning to lose its—it was no longer Lubavitch. So he got involved. That’s a whole history.

1:22:55 Speaker 4 What’s the story with the Tzemach Tzedek in Jerusalem?

1:22:58 Speaker 1 Huh?

1:22:59 Speaker 4 The story of the Tzemach Tzedek in Jerusalem.

1:23:01 Speaker 1 The story of the Tzemach Tzedek in Jerusalem is that there was a chossid of the Tzemach Tzedek named Rabbi Yosef Rivlin. He was a chossid of the Tzemach Tzedek, and even before that, of the Mitteler Rebbe, but mainly he was a chossid of the Tzemach Tzedek. He was a Torah scholar, an extraordinary genius. He was a rabbi in Shloviakh[unclear], if I’m not mistaken, in Russia. Shlov[unclear]. In any case, he was a very important figure in Russia and a very great Chabad rabbi, a chossid of the Tzemach Tzedek, and toward the end of his life he moved to Eretz Yisroel. What happened? The well-known story about him is that he had some heart condition and went to the Tzemach Tzedek to ask for a blessing. The Tzemach Tzedek told him, “The condition you have is the subject of a disagreement among the halachic authorities: does it render an animal treif or not? Rabbi Yosef rules that it is kosher. But since Rabbi Yosef considers it kosher, if the ruling is that it’s treif, you would have to die. If the ruling is that it’s kosher, you can live with it. So, in Eretz Yisroel, who is the chief rabbi? Rabbi Yosef. Rabbi Yosef was the rabbi in Tzfas; he was the halachic authority of Eretz Yisroel. So because Rabbi Yosef is the halachic authority of Eretz Yisroel, if you go to Eretz Yisroel, you’ll be able to live a few more years.” So he moved to Eretz Yisroel and lived another twenty years or so. He took it from the halachah—[unclear]. So it’s considered treif. If it’s treif, you can’t live; if it isn’t considered treif, you can. He ruled that you can live. That’s the disagreement. Yes. So the Tzemach Tzedek told him, “Go to Eretz Yisroel.” According to Rabbi Liopolin[unclear], he went to Eretz Yisroel, went to Eretz Yisroel. So he began the Chabad community in Jerusalem. There was

1:24:47 Speaker 1 already a community in Tzfas, there was one in Tiberias, and there was one in Hebron. And he began—there had been a small beginning even before him, but mainly it was he and another group at that time who began the Chabad community in Jerusalem, and they built that shul. It wasn’t called Tzemach Tzedek then; there was no such connection. It was the chassidim of the Tzemach Tzedek who built the shul for their community. What happened was that the Arabs captured it from the Turks there—when the Arabs captured the Old City in 5708. So from 5708 until 5727, the Old City was in Arab hands. Jews couldn’t enter the Old City. Yes, for almost twenty years, from 5708 until 5727, the Old City was closed off; there was an exchange of fire, and they destroyed it. In 5708, parts of Jerusalem were destroyed. In 5727, during the Six-Day War, most of the Old City was in ruins. Almost nothing remained. The shuls, everything. There were ancient things there. The Tiferes Yisroel shul, the Nissan Beck shul, was an old, tall shul—the tallest in the Old City. Everything was destroyed. That shul was called Tiferes Yisroel. The Churva was destroyed too; everything was destroyed. Now they’re rebuilding it. In any case, the remarkable thing was that the only shul left intact, without any change, was that shul of Rabbi Liopolin[unclear]. It was the only shul that remained, and in 5727, when the Jews captured the Old City, they found the shul intact. So the Rebbe immediately wrote a letter saying they should take over the shul and call it Tzemach Tzedek. That was how it came to be called the Tzemach Tzedek shul. And the Rebbe immediately appointed gabbaim who would stay connected, so people wouldn’t just do as they pleased. The Rebbe always took care with this. There were always, always problems in Eretz Yisroel. Yes, they always had to watch who would lead there. There were

1:26:43 Speaker 1 all kinds of institutions. In any case, the Rebbe wrote a letter then saying that they should choose... It’s a very interesting letter the Rebbe wrote then. That was in 5708; there was an exchange of fire, and the Rebbe wrote that they should choose one person from each institution in Eretz Yisroel to serve on a committee. How do you say “committee”? Yes, a representative from each Chabad institution, and together they would run that shul. From Tzeirei Agudas Chabad, from... Colel Chabad, from... Tomchei Temimim. Every Chabad institution should send someone. What did the Rebbe write? “In the meantime,” the Rebbe writes, “since there isn’t time to arrange everything,” and so on and so forth—it could take a long time—“for now, I suggest” that the head of the committee of all the institutions together should be Avraham Pariz. And that came from the Rebbe. Anyone who knows who Avraham Pariz was understands why the Rebbe chose Avraham Pariz. In any case, that was the foundation of Tzemach Tzedek. Tzemach Tzedek. What happened? It’s late already. That’s a sign it’s late.

1:28:17 Speaker 5 The Frierdiker Rebbe in Eretz Yisroel. If you don’t know about the Frierdiker Rebbe in Eretz Yisroel.

1:28:21 Speaker 1 They turn to him. All right, the continuation of the story is that afterward came World War II. By the way, World War I—I always remember things I forgot. During World War I, the Toras Emes yeshiva stopped operating. Toras Emes began in 5672, as we said. In 5674 the war began, and all the students, together with the mashpia, returned to Lubavitch. So the Toras Emes yeshiva was closed for several years, throughout World War I, and after the war it started again. A few years later, it was already during the time of the Frierdiker Rebbe, and the Frierdiker Rebbe sent Alter Simchovitch to run the yeshiva again. So they reopened Toras Emes, but not in Chevron, because by then there were terrible troubles in Chevron and so on. The yeshiva, Toras Emes, was in Jerusalem, and that is the foundation of the Toras Emes yeshiva in Jerusalem to this day. In any case, let’s get back to the subject. During World War II the whole world came to a halt, and after World War II, Jews really needed to go up to Eretz Yisroel, and then the great war began. Now, some of the chassidim, Chabad chassidim, didn’t know what to do. They knew, after all, that the Rebbe was against Eretz Yisroel and the whole idea. The Rebbe had not instructed the chassidim what to do. Meanwhile, the chassidim were all in Europe—in Paris, Austria, Germany. Chassidim who had left Russia in those years, around 5706 or 5707—thousands and tens of thousands left Russia. It was the great exodus from Russia. So they all remained in Europe. Some reached America, and some stayed in Europe at the time. Then, in 5708, there was what’s called the War of Independence. That is, the liberation. Huh? The War of Independence was in 5708; it was a very difficult war. Many, many Jews were killed then. And what was the goal of the War of Independence? To establish the State of Israel officially. Even

1:30:29 Speaker 1 though the declaration about establishing the state, as we said, was back in 5677 or something around then, sometime in the 5660s. That was many years earlier, but World War I came in between. So everything got thrown into confusion, and afterward there was all the politics that had to be worked out. There were the British and the Turks, the Turks and the Arabs; there were wars, and there were the Irgun and Lehi. What was happening there in Eretz Yisroel was a complete mess. In practice, they didn’t manage to do it until 5708. Then there was very heavy fighting involving the Jewish pioneers and the Jewish organizations, as they were called then—the Irgun and Lehi. They were strong Jewish organizations, from which later developed what are called today Labor and Likud, the right and the left, right-wing and left-wing, and so on. Those were the people fighting the British then, and in the end they won. And after a great deal of blood was spilled, rachmana litzlan, and a great many Jews were killed, that day became the day of... Well, they declared it the day that, rachmana litzlan, they call Independence Day. Yes, yes.

1:31:39 Speaker 5 The declaration was before the war.

1:31:43 Speaker 1 The declaration was before the war?

1:31:44 Speaker 5 The declaration.

1:31:44 Speaker 1 Could be. Maybe I’m mistaken. All right, be that as it may. What happened in practice—and what happened with the Rebbe then is interesting—is that the chassidim still didn’t know what was happening. Yes, no, no, yes. In practice, many Jews went up to Eretz Yisroel. In any case, during the war people fled wherever they could, and of course thousands of Jews went up to Eretz Yisroel. It was one of the only places Jews could go. It was hard to get there, especially since, as is well known, during the war itself, ships carrying people there were attacked and people were killed, rachmana litzlan; people were sent to Cyprus, and all sorts of things happened. It was a mess. But after the war the gates were opened, and many Jews entered Eretz Yisroel. On the other hand, they didn’t know what Chabad’s position was. They knew the Frierdiker Rebbe was anti-Zionist. That they knew. They knew he was a staunch opponent who fought against it. He and his father—the Frierdiker Rebbe and the Rebbe Rashab—also fought against the use of Hebrew. There are entire letters saying one must not speak Hebrew. So he was a truly staunch opponent, and consequently, what were they to do? A delegation from Eretz Yisroel then traveled to the Rebbe. There was also a man from Agudas Yisroel named Moshe Porush, the father of Reb Menachem Porush, the grandfather of the younger Porush, whose name is Beni Porush. He says that the family name Porush comes from the Perushim we spoke about earlier—the Litvaks who went up to Eretz Yisroel in the time of the Vilna Gaon. They were descendants of that group. The Porush family has been a very prominent family in Eretz Yisroel for generations and generations.

1:33:26 Speaker 6 Two generations for Porush?

1:33:27 Speaker 1 [unclear] at the time. So they went to the Frierdiker Rebbe, and he told them that things were indeed going to change. Although he was opposed to the state in Eretz Yisroel, the Frierdiker Rebbe even used an expression—I need to read it. The Frierdiker Rebbe said that if the Zionists succeeded and, rachmana litzlan, established a state in Eretz Yisroel, they would push off the Geulah by another... another fifty years. That is how the Frierdiker Rebbe expressed himself in one of the... He very much did not want it to happen. The Frierdiker Rebbe was very much against it, but in practice they established the state. So the Frierdiker Rebbe said—and this is the foundation of the whole matter—that although “my position did not prevail,” my father was against it and I am against it, nevertheless, now that thousands of Jews are actually there, our task is what the Tzemach Tzedek said: “We are workers of the day.” Chassidim need to bring light everywhere. So we need to make Eretz Yisroel a place of holiness, to make it the Holy Land. Consequently, now we need to see to building up Eretz Yisroel and strive to make it the Holy Land. That was the foundation of Kfar Chabad. Around that time, Shazar came to the Rebbe. Shazar was the son of chassidim and the grandson of chassidim. He was one of the leading figures of that period. And because Shazar came from a family of chassidim, he had a connection with the Frierdiker Rebbe. His parents had been among the prominent chassidim who helped the Rebbe Rashab a great deal. Rubashov is even mentioned in that connection.

1:35:46 Speaker 6 Them too?

1:35:47 Speaker 1 Rubashov. He wasn’t religious; he had drifted away. He was one of the young people who drifted away in Russia at that time. Some even say he studied in Lubavitch and was expelled. There is an account that he was expelled from Lubavitch. He was from those families, one of the young men who drifted away in those years, around 5661, and in [unclear] he came to visit the Rebbe. There is an interesting story that the Rebbe asked him, “What’s happening with your Yiddishkeit?” He answered, “A servant is not happy being left to his own devices.” That’s what he said. “A servant is not happy being left to his own devices.” Huh? How did I hear it? “A servant is not happy being left to his own devices.” And what does that mean? He told the Frierdiker Rebbe that although he was living without restraint, he wasn’t happy with it. “I’m suffering. Outwardly I still live without restraint, but I’m not happy with it. I’m not satisfied with it.” Then the Rebbe said something to him that transformed him. At the time he was completely different. He was completely distant from all these matters. He wasn’t the Shazar we know from the photographs. Back then, Shazar was completely distant from Yiddishkeit. He didn’t care about any of it. But there was one thing the Frierdiker Rebbe said to him at that yechidus, and it changed him completely. The Frierdiker Rebbe said three words to him in yechidus: “Don’t disgrace the Rubashov family.” Those were the words the Frierdiker Rebbe said. Don’t bring shame on the Rubashovs. Rubashov was his family name in Russia. His family, the older chassidim—his grandfather was a Rubashov. They were great chassidim of the Rebbe. Don’t disgrace the Rubashovs. That brought about an inner transformation in him, and he said he would do everything for Chabad. So he... so they bought the parcel of land that is Kfar Chabad today. Today Kfar Chabad is worth... Kfar Chabad, Kfar Chabad was

1:37:50 Speaker 1 at the center of the country. You have no idea how hard they tried afterward, once they realized they had given away such a good piece of land. Kfar Chabad is near Tel Aviv; it’s an outstanding place to build a settlement, a piece of land right in the center. They tried every possible way to get it back. They promised things, land elsewhere, Beit Shemesh, all kinds of places in the country. Kfar Chabad would be the center of the country, the heart of Eretz Yisroel. They didn’t give it up for anything. They caused a lot of trouble. Huh?

1:38:27 Speaker 7 With the Chabad settlement from Jerusalem.

1:38:31 Speaker 1 That comes out to [unclear]. In 5708. Ah, in 5709 the foundations of Kfar Chabad were laid. Kfar Chabad was then a small village that wasn’t called Kfar Chabad. It was called Tzafria. Tzafria. It had all sorts of names. Today it’s called Tzafria, but back then it wasn’t called Tzafria. Tzafria is already a Hebraized name. The Arabs didn’t call it Tzafria. Tzafria. Tzafria. Huh?

1:39:01 Speaker 7 Tzafria. Tzafria remained.

1:39:04 Speaker 1 Yes, but Tzafria had an Arabic name. Then the Zionists turned it into Tzafria. It sounds a little Jewish. Huh? But my grandfather was in Tzafria. I know it. I have the [unclear]. So, originally, Kfar Chabad was an Arab village whose residents fled after the War of Independence. It was an abandoned, desolate village. And what happened? Chassidim who came from Russia settled there. The Frierdiker Rebbe sent a special Torah scroll to Eretz Yisroel at the time. The letter is in the Rebbe’s book from 5709. The Frierdiker Rebbe sent a special Torah scroll from America to Eretz Yisroel as his participation in the founding of Kfar Chabad, with blessings and so on. That was in the month of Iyar 5709, right around now, sixty years ago. If I’m not mistaken, that letter was dated Erev Shabbos Parshas Bo 5709. If I’m not mistaken, that was when it was. That’s how I remember it. We need to check. That was how the founding of Kfar Chabad began, and then the Frierdiker Rebbe changed—meaning, he didn’t change his approach. The Frierdiker Rebbe was completely opposed to Zionism, opposed to the idea of the beginning of the Geulah. The Frierdiker Rebbe maintained that the Zionist idea itself was destructive to Judaism. But what should chassidim do? There are Jews in Eretz Yisroel—what, should we abandon them? Just the opposite. We need to act, to bring light, to make something righteous out of the State of Israel. That was the message the Frierdiker Rebbe began with, and afterward the Rebbe expanded on it. By the way, there’s a wonderful story. We’re among our own people here, among Anash, so I can tell it. Be careful—it’s not something to tell outside. Yes. There’s a wonderful story. I heard it here. Reb Leibel Groner told it; he heard it from—there was an incident involving one of the leading religious Zionists, one of the leading rabbis

1:41:15 Speaker 1 of Mizrachi, who came to the Rebbe for yechidus. His name was Rabbi Neria. Have you heard of Rabbi Neria? Rabbi Neria was a very important rabbi. His son was here a few years ago too. He had a grandson here who studied in the Talmud Torah. Anyway, Rabbi Moshe Tzvi Neria. A Jew who was very close to the Rebbe. He had a very good relationship with the Rebbe. Moshe Tzvi, right?

1:41:32 Speaker 8 Moshe.

1:41:34 Speaker 1 Moshe Tzvi Neria. In short, Rabbi Neria went in to the Rebbe, and during the yechidus he said that he wanted to know something. He had a question: Why don’t Chabad chassidim celebrate Independence Day? His question wasn’t so much about the beginning of the Geulah; he already knew that the Rebbe opposed that whole idea, and so on. His question was this: In practice, a great miracle happened. A miracle happened. It truly saved the Jewish people. Yes, the War of Independence saved Jews, and because of it Jews were rescued and had somewhere to go. Jews were fleeing the Second World War. So how can this be? You don’t celebrate the State of Israel, but at least thank Hashem for the miracle. So the Rebbe said to him, “Are you prepared to hear what I’m going to tell you? You won’t fall off your chair when you hear what I’m going to say?” That was the expression. “You won’t fall off your chair when you hear what I’m going to say?” “Whatever the Rebbe says, I’m prepared to hear it all.” So the Rebbe told him, “In my opinion, not only should they not have made it a Yom Tov; they should have designated that day as a day of mourning.” He looked at him like this. Then the Rebbe said to him, “In the War of Independence, thousands and tens of thousands of Jews were killed. And why were they killed? Why were they killed? The British government had given Jews the freedom to live in Eretz Yisroel under British rule. Eretz Yisroel could have been like Canada today. What is Canada today? Canada has the Queen’s picture on its coins. Apart from that, it has no connection. Almost none—I don’t know, maybe once in a while they need something... the Canadian government. Australia is like that too. These are governments considered to be under the British. In practice, they have full autonomy. They can do what they want. They live comfortably. Everything, yes. The only thing is, perhaps the Queen’s picture is on the coins?”

1:43:48 Speaker 1 That’s the whole thing. Yes. Britain offered Eretz Yisroel the same arrangement. Do what you want. Full autonomy; live your lives, live well. The only thing is that, formally, it would be under the British government. But there’s no—call it whatever you want. Conduct yourselves however you want. More than that: What was it, then? Because of the pride—the pride of the Israelis, who couldn’t bear having someone else tell them, “Enough.” “We have to be in charge.” So they were prepared to sacrifice thousands and tens of thousands of lives. That was the Rebbe’s courage. No, no, it’s a story.

1:44:40 Speaker 9 What is the... Did I hear you mention the Declaration of Independence?

1:44:42 Speaker 1 The Rebbe’s [unclear]. Huh?

1:44:43 Speaker 9 What is the... Did I hear you mention the Declaration of Independence?

1:44:45 Speaker 1 What, what did you hear?

1:44:46 Speaker 9 The story. Those are fine words, but not just fine words.

1:44:50 Speaker 1 Is it, is it a story? Is it a story? Huh? Is it a story?

1:44:58 Speaker 9 Just a little bit.

1:44:58 Speaker 1 There was a very big debate among the rabbis at the time. Hashem’s name isn’t mentioned in the Declaration of Independence. Huh? It was written as a name, but that isn’t a name.

1:45:14 Speaker 9 “Rock of Israel.” “With confidence...”

1:45:16 Speaker 1 “With confidence in the Rock of Israel.” “Rock of Israel” can be interpreted in two ways: the Rock of Israel, Hakadosh Boruch Hu; or the “rock of Israel” as the strength of the Israelis—a heretical interpretation. That was one of the issues.

1:45:27 Speaker 9 [unclear].

1:45:27 Speaker 1 [unclear], I remember. Is it a story? [unclear] already. What did I hear? That hope—what is it? [unclear]. So I find myself even in America. According to the Rebbe’s approach—I’m talking a little; we’re simply telling stories, and we need to explain the reasoning, the explanation of the matter. The Rebbe’s approach is this. The Rebbe writes something very simple. First of all, the Zionists come with a passage from the Jerusalem Talmud. It says there that “the redemption of Israel comes little by little,” along with all sorts of other statements like that. So the Rebbe says something very simple. In matters of halachah, who rules? Halachic authorities rule. There are works of halachah, and they issue rulings. There is the Shulchan Aruch, the Rambam, the Tur, and they rule. A person can’t issue a halachic ruling directly from the Gemara. When there is a clear ruling, you have to look at that ruling. On the subject of the Geulah, the ruling is the Rambam’s. The Rambam wrote it. If someone disagrees with the Rambam, then there is a dispute; there are two approaches among the halachic authorities. That’s how it works. So if I want to know the practical halachah in matters connected with the Geulah, I need to open the Rambam and see what the Rambam writes. The Shulchan Aruch didn’t write about the laws of Moshiach. The Rambam did. And the Rambam writes explicitly exactly how it will happen: “If a king arises from the House of David, who studies Torah and occupies himself with mitzvos like David his ancestor, and compels all Israel to follow it and strengthen its breaches...” That is a halachah in the Rambam, chapter 4, halachah 1. Does anyone write there against the Rambam? Is there a halachic authority who says that perhaps the Rambam isn’t right? Does anyone cite the Jerusalem Talmud and write, “No, there’s another way”? No. No one disagrees with the Rambam. That is to say, there are other matters on which they do disagree, but on the matters where they don’t disagree with the Rambam

1:47:29 Speaker 1 In other words, this is an unequivocal halachah. You can’t dispute it. So why are you coming to me with the Yerushalmi? With Midrashim and other arguments? The Rambam knew the Yerushalmi and the Midrashim, and nevertheless ruled that this is the way Hakadosh Boruch Hu will bring it about, and if it doesn’t happen this way, it isn’t Moshiach. That was the Rebbe’s courage: the reasoning of the Rebbe, based on Torah and halachah. We always saw this point with the Rebbe: Torah governs the world. The Shulchan Aruch. Later there was the battle over the territories. The Rebbe fought against returning the territories. On the one hand, the Rebbe opposed the whole idea of Zionism, the whole approach to the Land of Israel. On the other hand, when it came to returning territories, the Rebbe fought against it. What was the Rebbe’s argument? The Rebbe did not speak about the holiness of the Land of Israel or the mitzvah of settling it. The Rebbe said that territories in the Land of Israel could not be returned simply because of a halachah in the Shulchan Aruch: saving lives overrides the entire Torah. When non-Jews approach—even outside the Land of Israel, even if Jews live somewhere in Australia, on some frontier, and non-Jews approach a Jewish town in the middle of Shabbos—even if they are not coming for money but only over straw and hay, are you permitted to go out in the middle of Shabbos to fight them and kill them? That is an explicit halachah. It’s what the Shulchan Aruch says. This was already the position of the Frierdiker Rebbe. So when Jews live in the Land of Israel and an Arab comes and starts making claims about the territories, according to halachah, because lives are at stake, you have to go and fight him. That is where the Rebbe took the principle that the territories must not be returned. This was a central point for the Rebbe.

1:49:12 Speaker 10 Sometimes giving back land officially is supposed to make things safer, because they’ll respect it and all that.

1:49:16 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe... True, there were people who lied and misled everyone, claiming that this would be a path to peace. The Rebbe stood up and cried out, “You say this is peace? The Shulchan Aruch says it isn’t!”

1:49:28 Speaker 10 The opposite of peace.

1:49:29 Speaker 1 Your own reasoning tells you that if you give the Arabs some piece of land, there will be peace. The Shulchan Aruch says that when a non-Jew comes to fight a Jew—not even to fight, but just to quarrel over straw and hay—you have to go to war against him, because you cannot make peace with him. That is what the Torah says. The Torah, though, comes through Torah scholars. In practice, there were many then who weren’t against the Rebbe. Today everyone already admits it. Heaven forbid—it took all the troubles we’ve had. Now all the leading rabbis... Oh, the Rebbe, yes.

1:49:56 Speaker 10 The Rebbe’s point here was that what they were doing involved saving lives. The Shulchan Aruch says so, and we see that this is what the Arabs themselves say.

1:50:04 Speaker 1 The Rebbe cried out that this was halachah. Then, little by little, over time, the Rebbe kept showing how events in practice bore it out too. At first, it had not yet happened in reality; at first, it was a matter of halachah. The Rebbe cried out immediately in 5727, right after the war—the Six-Day War—when they began returning territories. That was when they already started saying it.

1:50:25 Speaker 10 Why not?

1:50:26 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe immediately spoke out. At the time, people still thought differently. What the Rebbe said had not even occurred to anyone, at least not according to their own reasoning. What do you mean? You have to make a deal. If you want quiet, you have to give them something back, quiet them down, and that’s the end of it. Peace for everyone. In 5730, when nothing had moved yet—yes, it was just after the Six-Day War—everyone was afraid. The Arabs were afraid of the Jews. They were only beginning to do a little business. It was the Jews who began to dispel that fear. They were the ones who started looking to make deals with the Arabs: maybe we should give them something back, return something. Maybe we really aren’t right. That was the problem of Jews in exile: Jews are afraid of themselves. So they began making overtures. In 5730 the Rebbe wrote that if they spoke about a small piece of territory in Shechem, they would end up returning Jerusalem. When the Rebbe wrote that, people were embarrassed. Chassidim were embarrassed to repeat it in public. It seemed like such a wild fantasy: the Lubavitcher Rebbe was saying something unthinkable. You simply couldn’t suggest returning Jerusalem. It was beyond anyone’s imagination. But as time went on, the Rebbe kept showing that this was where things were heading. In 5730, in 5738, and then in 5739, there was the return of Sinai, and everything that followed.

1:51:49 Speaker 10 What about the territories? What about closing off the territories?

1:51:55 Speaker 1 In short, before we get to the practical point, there’s one more thing. Just a moment, one more thing. The Rebbe cried out several times at farbrengens that those who say the conquest of the Land of Israel was the beginning of the Geulah are not only wrong to call it that—they are causing the exile to become more severe, Heaven forbid. They are prolonging the exile and making the darkness deeper. Why? Because when you call something that is actually darkness “the Geulah,” that itself makes the exile greater. This was another point the Rebbe cried out about: how can you call it the beginning of the Geulah? The beginning of the Geulah means there should be a greater purification from the yetzer hara, and so on. Yet ever since the State of Israel was established, they have fought against religion and tried everything they could to undermine, fight, and abolish matters of religion. How can that be called the beginning of the Geulah? On the contrary, it is desecration and denial within the Land of Israel, the King’s palace. There is one more interesting point I want to mention about the Rebbe. Someone once asked him: If this really was not what Hakadosh Boruch Hu wanted for the Land of Israel, how is it that the War of Independence took place and the Jews won? If Hakadosh Boruch Hu did not want it, He could have prevented it. After all, He gave them the strength. The Rebbe answered very forcefully. He gave the example of a woman divorced from her husband, separated from him, who had nowhere to live. She was living on the street, in a very difficult situation. Her husband took pity on her and gave her a place in his house. He saw that she had nowhere to go, so he opened his home and gave her a place to sleep and lay her head. Through this, the Rebbe explained what happened

1:53:52 Speaker 1 in the Land of Israel. During the exile, the Jewish people are considered like a divorced woman. Hakadosh Boruch Hu, so to speak, took pity on the Jewish people and opened the Land of Israel to them so they would have a place to be. But that still does not make it the Geulah. That was one of the things the Rebbe said. This brings us to settling the Land of Israel, which raises another question. Why is there a mitzvah to settle the Land of Israel? Shouldn’t we all therefore go there? The Rebbe answered that too. According to several Rishonim, that is indeed the position. But Tosafos at the end of Tractate Kesubos cites Rabbeinu Chaim, who says that because it is impossible to observe the mitzvos—and very difficult to observe all the mitzvos that apply in the Land of Israel, including all the laws of its produce and tithes, and so on—there are many difficulties in fulfilling those mitzvos there today. Therefore, there is no mitzvah to move to the Land of Israel now. The Rebbe also cites the Meiri. In other words, there is a dispute among the Rishonim over whether moving to the Land of Israel now, during the exile, really is a mitzvah, given the problems that may arise. And you could see this with the Rebbe. He was very, very careful about it. It is known that the Rebbe never ate produce from the Land of Israel. Several times people tried to bring the Rebbe wine, spirits, and other things from the Land of Israel, but the Rebbe never ate or drank its produce, even when he was assured that the tithes and everything else had been taken care of. The Rebbe was always concerned about the laws that apply to produce from the Land of Israel. It was a very distinctive and interesting practice: the Rebbe was extremely careful not to eat produce from there.

1:55:34 Speaker 11 Is it a mitzvah, though? Is it something good?

1:55:37 Speaker 1 Huh?

1:55:37 Speaker 11 Is it a mitzvah, though? It is something good, yes.

1:55:40 Speaker 1 That is the discussion the Rebbe writes about there, citing the Rishonim. Some halachic authorities say that because of the difficulty of fulfilling those positive Torah commandments, there is no obligation today to move to the Land of Israel.

1:55:49 Speaker 11 But is it good?

1:55:50 Speaker 1 It’s good, certainly.

1:55:51 Speaker 11 It’s the mitzvah.

1:55:52 Speaker 1 Yes, yes, yes. Then there was the question of the Rebbe going to Eretz Yisroel, and why he did not want to go. The Rebbe was asked many times; people tried to persuade him to go, but he never wanted to. There are a number of aspects to this, and a number of stories. One very interesting story is about Rabbi Shlomo Goren, who was one of the chief rabbis. He told a wonderful story: he had been to the Rebbe for yechidus several times, and each time he asked why the Rebbe did not come to Eretz Yisroel. He asked four times, and each time the Rebbe gave him a different answer. After the fourth answer, he understood that this was the real answer. What happened? I don’t remember the order, but I’ll tell you what I remember. I read it many years ago. On one occasion, he said to the Rebbe, “Why doesn’t the Rebbe move to Eretz Yisroel?” The Rebbe answered that he wanted to be in contact with all Jews, and there were countries he could not contact from Eretz Yisroel—Morocco, Tunisia, Russia, all sorts of countries. Because he wanted to be in contact with the whole world, he lived outside Eretz Yisroel. That was one answer the Rebbe gave him. Another time, the Rebbe said, “If I go to Eretz Yisroel, I don’t know how I’ll come back. Going there is fine, but leaving Eretz Yisroel is forbidden according to halachah unless one has a special dispensation. I’m not sure about that dispensation. So if I go to Eretz Yisroel,

1:57:48 Speaker 1 I don’t know whether I’ll be able to come back.”

1:57:52 Speaker 13 Huh? Only if I go.

1:57:54 Speaker 1 Apparently that continues what I was saying before: “If I go…”

1:57:58 Speaker 13 [unclear]

1:58:01 Speaker 1 I’m telling the story. The third time he asked the Rebbe, the Rebbe told him… Ah, I don’t remember. There was a third answer.

1:58:13 Speaker 13 What was it?

1:58:14 Speaker 1 That was the fourth and last one.

1:58:16 Speaker 13 [unclear]

1:58:19 Speaker 1 [unclear]

1:58:20 Speaker 13 Well, that’s my life.

1:58:23 Speaker 1 Of Yehoshua.

1:58:23 Speaker 13 [unclear] They do that, make the announcements here, and that’s it.

1:58:33 Speaker 1 No, what supervisor? What is there at the end now? What supervisor?

1:58:37 Speaker 13 They did it from here. I know.

1:58:42 Speaker 1 So the last thing was this: on the final occasion he was there, he asked the question. The Rebbe told him, “I took it upon myself—I took it upon myself [unclear]—that from now on I would go only with him. When my father-in-law, the Rebbe, passed away, I took it upon myself that from then on I would go only with him, only with…” And then the Rebbe began to cry; tears came down. Rabbi Goren understood that the matter ended there.

1:59:18 Speaker 13 That’s it. That’s [unclear].

1:59:20 Speaker 1 Hey, how did that happen?

1:59:21 Speaker 13 That’s not what he’s talking about.

1:59:25 Speaker 1 And what else? Of course, there is much more to discuss, but time is short and the work is great. We come to the sicha from 5751. I’ll finish with this last point. In 5751, during a period when the Rebbe was speaking strongly about Moshiach and preparing for Moshiach, on Shabbos Parshas Pinchas the Rebbe devoted an entire farbrengen to the Tzemach Tzedek’s saying, “Make this place Eretz Yisroel.” The Rebbe explained at length how this whole idea of “Make this place Eretz Yisroel” is what we call preparing for Moshiach. The Rebbe explained in detail, based on everything written in the Torah, how to make Eretz Yisroel. [unclear] thought, speech and action [unclear]. In Parshas Pinchas, the Rebbe explained at length what each aspect means in our avodah: our thought, speech and action must all be complete. That, specifically, is the preparation for entering Eretz Yisroel—for making Eretz Yisroel here. May Hashem help us and all the people of the land, and may we go up to Eretz Yisroel together.