Connection to Essence | Episode 6 | Between Us

00:00 Speaker 1 Connecting to the Essence. Hi, Sarah’le.

00:02 Speaker 2 Chani, how are you? We haven’t seen each other in ages. We really haven’t seen each other in ages.

00:05 Speaker 1 Right, and when we haven’t seen each other, we have things to talk about. Uh—

00:11 Speaker 2 Wow, it’s been incredibly intense.

00:14 Speaker 1 We’re both going through a very intense period—

00:15 Speaker 2 Oh, absolutely.

00:16 Speaker 1 Boruch Hashem. Are you feeling grateful or overwhelmed?

00:20 Speaker 2 Grateful, and at times overwhelmed.

00:23 Speaker 1 Tell me what you mean by overwhelmed.

00:25 Speaker 2 Um, sometimes, for a moment, it feels bigger than I can handle. I’m like, wow, this is so, so, so much. One thing after another. And sometimes I just want to pause for a second, to simply be, even for—

00:38 Speaker 1 No, are you able to just be?

00:41 Speaker 2 A lot of my creativity happens when I pause like that. I mean, there’s something you draw from a kind of—we were talking earlier about an empty mind. So your mind empties, and then something starts to flow. And right now, it’s flowing all the time. But it’s day and night, day and night, and I’m creating as I go. So I think that’s something really exciting.

00:57 Speaker 1 You go to sleep at night with an idea, and by morning it’s already in print.

01:00 Speaker 2 Or I don’t—yes, either I can’t fall asleep, or I’m thinking about it in my sleep. Then I get up in the morning—I get up really early—and I’m... and that’s it, it comes out of me. But, you know—

01:13 Speaker 1 When it comes out, are you happy with it?

01:15 Speaker 2 Usually, yes. But by then I’m already on to the next thing.

01:19 Speaker 1 Do you want to talk about Beinenu?

01:21 Speaker 2 What, the new series?

01:23 Speaker 1 The new product.

01:24 Speaker 2 What was that? Was this planned?

01:26 Speaker 1 No.

01:26 Speaker 2 No. I feel like I—I don’t want to.

01:28 Speaker 1 What was planned?

01:29 Speaker 2 I’m laughing because you suddenly asked whether I wanted to talk about it.

01:31 Speaker 1 No, because we’re talking about creating things, and I just saw the kit. You sent me pictures, and you’ve come up with an absolutely brilliant, heaven-sent idea here. Yeah. Why not talk about it? What interests me more is—

01:44 Speaker 2 Yes.

01:44 Speaker 1 Besides the finished product. People can see the products in your catalog and your ads.

01:48 Speaker 2 Right.

01:49 Speaker 1 That’s not what this is about. Why you do it, how you do it—your why is what interests me. I’m curious.

01:55 Speaker 2 Oh, wow, that reminds me that the why is ultimately what matters most. Because behind that why is a very, very deep need. I wasn’t even aware of it at first; today I am, but at the beginning I wasn’t. It’s simply to give people meaning, connection, and substance. Really. It starts with some idea I have in my head.

02:13 Speaker 1 Explain.

02:13 Speaker 2 For example, um—

02:15 Speaker 1 I think here it’s not an idea; it’s a value.

02:17 Speaker 2 But generally, with most things, most of the kits, I’ll be going through a period where something is on my mind. Even the previous kit, for example, about being in the moment—A Moment of Happiness.

02:27 Speaker 1 A Moment of Happiness is the clocks.

02:28 Speaker 2 The clocks. So I had this—

02:29 Speaker 1 Amazing. Gorgeous, from the pictures I’ve seen.

02:33 Speaker 2 Yes, really, thank you. It came out beautifully. But I’d been going through a period when I was really working on that very thing: being present in the moment. For the past few years, I’ve been working with a national mindfulness center. I create journals with them, in collaboration—I’d call them journey journals. And ultimately, the whole idea of mindfulness is to be in the moment. But my life isn’t exactly lived in the moment, because I’m constantly, constantly, constantly doing things.

03:01 Speaker 1 But you’re the one bringing all that activity into your life.

03:03 Speaker 2 I also really love doing it. It excites me and makes me happy.

03:06 Speaker 1 So where does being in the moment come in?

03:07 Speaker 2 Exactly. And then, just before the clock came out, I went through a period when I simply said, “Hold on a second. What’s going on with me?” Time was flying, and I wasn’t even—I wasn’t enjoying it. “Enjoying” isn’t even the right word. I wasn’t pausing to be in that moment. There’s a book I really love, The Power of Now—one of the books I recommend. I’ve read it many times. It’s pretty profound. Worth reading. So I went back and read it again, and suddenly you realize that when you’re in the moment, simply in the moment, you can create a kind of flow. Your awareness is in a different place when you’re present in that very second. And I went back to practicing that specifically. That second when you’re here: I’m eating, and I notice that I’m eating. I’m sleeping—

03:50 Speaker 1 For you, that takes work.

03:51 Speaker 2 For me, it takes work. Yes. What—

03:53 Speaker 1 Do you know people for whom it doesn’t take work?

03:57 Speaker 2 I believe some people are more present. I think it takes work for everyone, and ultimately it’s a practice. There are people—for example, the woman I worked with at the national mindfulness center. She amazed me with the way she spoke, each word... Even my speech is really fast. She would pause. She’d say to me, “Wait a second. I want to breathe this in.”

04:18 Speaker 1 Wow.

04:19 Speaker 2 When she eats, it’s like—

04:20 Speaker 1 Did you ever ask her whether that came naturally to her or whether she’d worked on it?

04:23 Speaker 2 It came naturally to her. Well, what does “naturally” mean? She had worked on it.

04:25 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

04:26 Speaker 2 But it became a habit for her—

04:27 Speaker 1 She still lives with that awareness.

04:28 Speaker 2 Yes.

04:29 Speaker 1 Beautiful.

04:29 Speaker 2 We’d sit down for coffee, and I’d look at her and think, wow, she’s... she’s living differently. She’d sit there as though she had all the time in the world, and she’s a busy woman. She manages incredible projects. She once told me that she’d started practicing eating a square of chocolate over several long minutes, just to experience the taste. Something like that.

04:51 Speaker 1 Wow.

04:52 Speaker 2 And that’s an amazing exercise, because usually we eat a square of chocolate and we... I even noticed us just before this. We sat down to eat for a moment, and we were talking while we ate, on our phones, answering people.

05:03 Speaker 1 Eating is almost something we do on the side, along the way.

05:06 Speaker 2 We don’t really give it any attention. We didn’t experience it at all.

05:09 Speaker 1 Interesting. I’m trying to take this into my own life—to try it even once a day, at that level—because I don’t experience that myself. Let’s go back to the clock.

05:19 Speaker 2 But something comes to mind as a continuation of the clock idea, and it’s important: when we’re not in the moment, we’re either in the past or in the future. Either I want to get more and more and more done, or we’re in the past, with things that happened—

05:31 Speaker 1 Painful things.

05:31 Speaker 2 Processing them somehow, dealing with them. Right. And ultimately, this moment—the world is created anew every moment; a new reality really does come into being every moment. When I’m in the past or the future, I don’t allow that new reality to happen. I keep going with a script that’s inside me. I create a reality that isn’t new. When I’m here, in this very second—and I often say to the children, “Are we missing anything right now?” We have... It’s pleasant for us right now, even. We’re sitting here, I—

05:58 Speaker 1 That’s just what I was about to say: let’s practice it for a moment. Let’s do it.

06:01 Speaker 2 I’m fairly comfortable in this chair. I mean, I’m comfortable. I’m not hungry, thirsty, or tired. This moment, as we begin to talk. The weather is pleasant. In this moment, I’m not missing anything. Really, nothing at all.

06:12 Speaker 1 Okay.

06:13 Speaker 2 Right now.

06:14 Speaker 1 And if you’re not missing anything, can you be present?

06:15 Speaker 2 You can be present. You can develop a much more... You’re in a much greater state of flow. Because if I’m not in a state of lack right now, I’m in a state of fullness. In this very second, I’m complete. So think what kind of moment I’m creating in a world of abundance, where something new is coming into being.

06:31 Speaker 1 But right now, at this very moment, you’re also creating something.

06:34 Speaker 2 Right.

06:35 Speaker 1 Because we’re creating something here. We’re having a conversation, which is a kind of creation that will also go out into the world afterward.

06:40 Speaker 2 Right.

06:40 Speaker 1 So can you still be present? Are you still in the moment?

06:44 Speaker 2 First, this is an unplanned creation. I mean, I think there isn’t—

06:47 Speaker 1 But you’re aware that something is being created here. I mean—

06:50 Speaker 2 Yes and no. I—

06:51 Speaker 1 Because before this, we were sitting on the couch talking, and I’m not sure we were present in the moment then, either.

06:57 Speaker 2 Right.

06:57 Speaker 1 And the fact is, we both escaped into our phones. We justified it by saying we had to, because it was work and people needed us, and so on and so forth. But ultimately, we were escaping there too, if we’re honest. And now we’ve sat down for the podcast with the gorgeous cups I made and everything. So what’s happening here? I’m trying to—

07:23 Speaker 2 So I want to—

07:24 Speaker 1 I want to learn how to do this so I can then bring it into my life when I sit down to dinner with my children, or even when I sit by myself.

07:33 Speaker 2 So what comes to mind right now is, first, the phones are off to the side. They’re a scourge of this world, for better and for worse, but... And when we haven’t planned anything—I mean, it started with me saying to you, “Hi, how are you, Chani?” I had no idea what the next sentence would be. So my heart is here. My heart is beating. I feel your presence, and I’m saying whatever comes to me in that second. I have no plan.

07:56 Speaker 1 Beautiful.

07:56 Speaker 2 I don’t have any particular thoughts, like, nothing. In that moment I’m just letting go—whatever comes up, comes up, and that’s it. So I actually think, now that it occurs to me, that a certain presence happens on the podcast because you—

08:09 Speaker 1 You’re available.

08:10 Speaker 2 In that moment, you’re available just for this.

08:11 Speaker 1 Beautiful.

08:12 Speaker 2 And that’s it. A new moment is created. I think that from that moment, a kind of flow emerges that can come much more naturally, more cleanly.

08:24 Speaker 1 It’s interesting that you also mentioned putting the phone aside. I told you I go out with my princesses for some fun, and in a moment we’ll talk about “Between Us.” Libi, who isn’t even three yet—one of the things she knows, and insists on, is that we put the phone aside. And it seems that even during the day, if we want to talk and we say it out loud, it’s “phone aside.”

08:45 Speaker 2 Amazing.

08:45 Speaker 1 And she’s even more hooked—I mean, she loves the phone so much she’d want to be on it all day, and she knows how to use it. You wouldn’t believe it.

08:53 Speaker 2 And of course, when you go out together, she wants—

08:54 Speaker 1 But that, her knowing that... it really moves me. So I made the clock—

09:01 Speaker 2 That she recognizes it.

09:02 Speaker 1 It’s incredible. Like, how can you instill that in children? So I made the clock, and—

09:08 Speaker 2 That’s it.

09:08 Speaker 1 What feedback do you get?

09:11 Speaker 2 Good feedback, thank Hashem.

09:12 Speaker 1 That they really manage to stop?

09:14 Speaker 2 First of all, because—

09:14 Speaker 1 Well, first of all, while they’re creating, they stop and they’re present—

09:17 Speaker 2 Right.

09:17 Speaker 1 And you do a workshop there. I mean, you led a workshop.

09:19 Speaker 2 Right, and at the end there’s also a mindfulness exercise, and there’s content there too. Ultimately, I believe it reaches people, and they take from it what’s right for them.

09:28 Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

09:29 Speaker 2 And again, a lot of people take the time to write to me afterward, and that’s very, very moving and heartening. It’s not something I take for granted, by the way. I’ve learned to do that myself, even if it’s just a little. I told you, I don’t... But when people sit down and write to me, I think, wow, when was the last time I stopped to write someone a thank-you? And ultimately, it’s thanks to them that I can grow too, because I ask what it was like and how it went.

09:48 Speaker 1 You learn.

09:49 Speaker 2 And I learn a lot from it. It changes so many things for me, because—

09:54 Speaker 1 It helps you refine what you do for other people.

09:56 Speaker 2 Yes.

09:57 Speaker 1 Beautiful.

09:57 Speaker 2 So it started with that content, and then the clock came about. That’s where it came from. Now, with the “Between Us” series, people had asked me many times... First of all, I do a lot of mother-and-child sessions, like you do with Libi. People come to my studio, a mother and child—

10:14 Speaker 1 I do it with all my children.

10:16 Speaker 2 Yes, you told me.

10:16 Speaker 1 But Libi is little.

10:17 Speaker 2 But she’s the star. What can you do? We see her.

10:19 Speaker 1 Right, because the older ones—

10:20 Speaker 2 I remember Mushi too, by the way. I remember.

10:23 Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

10:23 Speaker 2 That was many years ago. I really remember it. It was—

10:25 Speaker 1 No, I meant I still do it today. These days I don’t share the older ones, because I respect them. They don’t want me to share.

10:30 Speaker 2 Wow, that’s amazing.

10:32 Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

10:33 Speaker 2 Speaking of that quality time, when parents ask me—and I also meet with children one-on-one in one way or another—I always say that the best therapy for a child is for the parent, for the parents, to make the time. I always tell parents, “Make king time”: time when you’re with your child and fully present. It can even be half an hour, but you’re there, present with your child. I always say, let the child choose what to do. No screens, no phones—take them out of the equation. But if the child wants to play a memory game with you, sing with you, go to the store for a moment, or take a walk, you spend that time together. Ultimately, it’s healing, because a child feels that you’re there for them. They open their heart, share things with you, trust you. To me, that’s the foundation. And that brings me back to this series of—

11:20 Speaker 1 So mothers and children would come to you?

11:24 Speaker 2 They came yesterday too. I mean, they still come—

11:25 Speaker 1 What is it? How does it work?

11:27 Speaker 2 Basically, it’s a session. I create a conversation with a placemat, guided imagery tailored to the mother and child, something they do together.

11:35 Speaker 1 Tailored to that particular child, or do you have something generic? Do you have a template, or do you speak with the mother beforehand—

11:42 Speaker 2 I speak with the mother. There’s a basic structure that’s similar, but I do hear about the child. I more or less know the child’s age, so I tailor it—

11:50 Speaker 1 Okay, so you prepare questions.

11:51 Speaker 2 The questions, the guided imagery. I also see the child. If I see it’s a very young child, of course I’ll use very simple, appropriate words. And if it’s an older child, then I’ll adjust the language and level, you know, and the creative part too. They create something together.

12:06 Speaker 1 Beautiful.

12:06 Speaker 2 An hour and a half that’s truly a gift to any child.

12:09 Speaker 1 They come, ostensibly, to create something together, and you guide it from a somewhat therapeutic place.

12:16 Speaker 2 They come for quality time. They know they’re coming for quality time. I think whoever comes does so with that awareness—

12:21 Speaker 1 And they choose a kind of project to work on together.

12:23 Speaker 2 Then you let the child choose what they want from everything available.

12:27 Speaker 1 And what’s your role there? To help them communicate?

12:31 Speaker 2 First of all, I’m present there, in that space. I step in very gently. I’m there, but I don’t talk much. I specifically want to give the mother room. There have been times when I really did have to step in—say, a mother read out a question and the child was silent. When that happens, I’ll often phrase the question differently.

12:52 Speaker 1 You teach the mother how to create that conversation.

12:57 Speaker 2 Maybe you could call it that. Again, I think most of the mothers who come already know how to do it. I mean, most of the mothers—

13:02 Speaker 1 Okay, but at the end of the day, your schedule and your time are limited. There are only twenty-four hours in a day.

13:06 Speaker 2 Right.

13:07 Speaker 1 So how did “Between Us” come about?

13:10 Speaker 2 Right. Again, it came from a need. People approached me many times, both about these sessions and about things for couples. Sometimes I put together kits like that, and people bought couples’ kits and mother-and-child kits from me.

13:20 Speaker 1 What’s a couples’ kit?

13:21 Speaker 2 They would choose something creative to do together, and I’d add some questions for them. But it really came from people reaching out to me with a need. For example, several wives of reservists approached me and said, “Listen, my husband isn’t home. What do you think? Maybe you could put something together for us.” So I would make something tailored to them. Then, one Motzaei Shabbos, the idea for “Between Us” suddenly came to me: to create a “Between Us” series—between me and my daughter, between me and myself, and between me and you. Meaning, between me and my spouse.

13:50 Speaker 1 Is there one for fathers and sons too? For fathers?

13:53 Speaker 2 No.

13:54 Speaker 1 But they can use it.

13:55 Speaker 2 They can use it, but I feel that I’m very much coming at this as a woman. It’s easier for me to connect with the mother-and-child side. But absolutely, with a father too—I’d love that. Amazing! They can connect. So they choose a creative project they want to do. They get a pair of cups and a few other things, a set of conversation cards, and they can take it out for the day, on a picnic, into the yard, or sit at home with it. And there’s—

14:21 Speaker 1 So they have, they have—

14:23 Speaker 2 A whole package.

14:23 Speaker 1 You planned it for them. You gave them a complete framework for that quality time.

14:25 Speaker 2 Right.

14:26 Speaker 1 And afterward they still have the cups and the cards. That’s beautiful.

14:32 Speaker 2 I have a bit of a challenge with this. I’ll tell you what my challenge is right now. If I’m being honest, and we’re having an honest conversation—we can cut this—I feel like it’s—

14:41 Speaker 1 Like it’s marketing?

14:41 Speaker 2 Like it’s marketing, and that’s really hard for me.

14:43 Speaker 1 Then no. That’s okay; let’s move on to another topic.

14:45 Speaker 2 No, maybe—

14:46 Speaker 1 No, my question came from—

14:47 Speaker 2 Right.

14:48 Speaker 1 Because I think this is something valuable, even if people don’t buy it. You’ve offered something here; you’ve created a framework. A mother can also go to a discount store, buy a craft project for ten shekels—

14:58 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

14:59 Speaker 1 And do the activity together. It’s not that they have to buy yours.

15:03 Speaker 2 Absolutely. If that’s how it comes across, then I’m more comfortable with it. Because there’s—

15:07 Speaker 1 No, no, absolutely. I don’t feel the podcast is a place for marketing.

15:11 Speaker 2 Great. Then I’m more comfortable.

15:12 Speaker 1 But I feel that if you’re doing something good and you want to tell people about it—

15:16 Speaker 2 Absolutely. So really, really—

15:17 Speaker 1 Some people specifically want these craft projects, some people will go to a discount store, and some people know how to do the projects themselves.

15:22 Speaker 2 Great.

15:23 Speaker 1 I’ve been going out for fun chats with my children for years. I mean, since they were little, which is why I connected with this. Moshe [unclear] would prepare a little program, draw one up: what we were going to do, where we were going to go, and what we were going to talk about. I mean, she would come to our chat very, very prepared. We talked about friends, about family, about siblings, about parents.

15:44 Speaker 2 And your children develop the skill, too, from doing it.

15:46 Speaker 1 Because I developed that skill in them through those conversations.

15:49 Speaker 2 Right.

15:50 Speaker 1 So what’s good about what you did is that some people like getting a kit. They like getting the whole package. So it’s not—careful, don’t—there’s no...

16:02 Speaker 2 No, no, I really did say that, and then I had second thoughts—

16:05 Speaker 1 It’s wonderful that you’re saying that openly, and I’m not going to cut it from the episode either.

16:08 Speaker 2 No, you can cut it. But what occurred to me afterward was that giving people the idea that they can do it themselves is a relief to me. And really, anyone can do it themselves.

16:19 Speaker 1 I’ll tell you what I want people to take away from this. I want them to leave with this idea of being present in the moment. What am I taking away from this? Fine, forget everyone else for a second. It’s about developing that muscle of awareness, of being present in the moment.

16:32 Speaker 2 Absolutely.

16:33 Speaker 1 Because I look at myself: I wake up in the morning with a lot of curiosity. I mean, my curiosity muscle is very well developed—

16:41 Speaker 2 Very.

16:42 Speaker 1 And Hakadosh Boruch Hu really brings a lot my way, too... He brings me into contact with a lot of things that interest me, boruch Hashem. But my curiosity, and all the things and activities I bring into my life through that curiosity, move me away from that path of sitting here and stopping.

17:02 Speaker 2 Right. In every coffee conversation or work conversation you have, you’re in the moment. Otherwise, I don’t think you’d be able to help people.

17:08 Speaker 1 When I’m with people, I’m completely in the moment. But I want to find that moment for myself, too. And I do make time for myself. I write, I do things, but not... You’ve given me a certain focus on how to do it. You were asking whether I wanted something practical? I’m getting something practical here: checking in with myself, with the children, with my husband, with myself. Five minutes. Sometimes five minutes is a lot, but come on, be present.

17:37 Speaker 2 But that’s... In the end, this exercise really is five minutes. It’s five minutes at first, and eventually you learn. But I think the foundation is that when you do something, you’re... I think the Rebbe even spoke about this: a chossid is a person who does something and is fully present in it. In that one thing. You said it with other examples, you—

17:54 Speaker 1 About the Rebbe himself, too—someone once asked him how he could do... No, there’s a beautiful story about a doctor who came to the Rebbe and said, “When I’m at home playing with my children, I think I could be a great surgeon. I could be operating, helping people and saving lives. When I’m at the hospital, I think about home and how I could be with my children. How do you do it?” So the Rebbe said, “Be present. When I’m having coffee with my wife, I’m there one hundred percent.” I mean, the Rebbe really is an example of being one hundred percent present in every—

18:27 Speaker 2 Every moment.

18:28 Speaker 1 Present. But, um, let’s go back to feeling overwhelmed.

18:34 Speaker 2 Wow, right now I don’t feel overwhelmed anymore.

18:36 Speaker 1 Because you’re present in the moment.

18:38 Speaker 2 Yes. This morning I’d had a crazy week—one thing after another after another. I got home at midnight, a little later, and I woke up knowing we were meeting today, and I wanted it to be meaningful. But here we are, and it really, really has—

18:54 Speaker 1 Why? Because you stepped out of... because you allowed yourself to be present?

18:57 Speaker 2 Because I stepped away for a second from... what you’d call the matrix. I stepped away from all that craziness, and now I’m present.

19:04 Speaker 1 In a way, you made yourself step away.

19:07 Speaker 2 Yes.

19:08 Speaker 1 Happily, though. It’s not like we’re doing something unpleasant here.

19:10 Speaker 2 No, I’m really enjoying it. But when it happens, I say, “Wow, thank you. Thank you for—”

19:15 Speaker 1 I’ll come every day.

19:16 Speaker 2 Gladly, sweetheart. Are you sure we won’t record a podcast every day?

19:20 Speaker 1 No, no. Uh-huh. Wow. So, okay, you’ve also given us a tip on how... I think even when you’re overwhelmed, if you stop for a second and let it out, it drains away. Doesn’t it?

19:34 Speaker 2 Yes, but something came to mind when you mentioned a tip. One thing that also helps me is stepping outside myself for a moment. I might be in an unpleasant situation, or whatever, and realize I’m not in the moment. Then I look at myself from the outside. For a second, I can see what’s happening, and that higher self—it’s as though something up above suddenly sees me and—

19:55 Speaker 1 And puts the picture in order for you?

19:56 Speaker 2 And there’s a certain quiet. Yes, because when you’re up there, you’re in a good place.

20:01 Speaker 1 You’re in a good place, and you can see the perspective.

20:02 Speaker 2 Yes, you’re in a good place, you can see it, and suddenly you can look at it with a different sense of proportion. That calms you down, too, because that higher self is in the moment. You step out for a second: okay, here I’m doing fine, and here I’m not, and I bring things into sync. So when I notice it, I tell myself, okay, step out of this script you’re creating right now for a second and look at it from the outside. That’s another tip, something I can offer. But I do want to finish by asking about what goes on behind the scenes of your creative process. You don’t have to answer. In the end, you post a picture of a beautifully branded box; you open it, and there are cups and all these things inside. What is that? How does it happen? Only if you feel like sharing. Because I can see this might touch on something sensitive. Just a word. I’m feeling my way here—it’s not a marketing question. I’m curious. I know this from myself, too. We’re both creators, after all. There’s a connection there. We make things and create things, and I can wake up, go to sleep and wake up again... For me, these days, it happens with projects, too. I can think of an idea on Shabbos, think of a talk on Motzaei Shabbos, write it that night, and give it on Tuesday. Boruch Hashem. We also live in a generation where everything is here and now. I was going to say: I wake up in the morning and think of a booklet; by evening it’s out, and the next day it’s already written in English. But it fits. First of all, it fits with everything happening today. This acceleration is “Blessed is He who speaks and acts.” In the end, that’s how the world was created: through utterances. It happened. It was said, and it happened. With you, a creation comes into being, and because you also work in the world of physical products, your imagination can soar much

21:42 Speaker 2 further. And at the push of a button, you’ve woken up in the morning and you’ve got everything you need at home. Come on. Yes, that’s true. So, anyway, do you want to share about that? I’d be happy to. First of all, I think I told you that it really starts with some idea that comes to me, and then I get caught up in this excitement. Where does the connection to the essence come into the idea? The idea is always the essence. It’s never a product. A product. No, that’s not what it is. It’ll be an idea that I really feel, and then I’m on an expressway internally. I can’t let it go. Even if I go to bed and tell myself, okay, you have to sleep, I’ll sleep with that thought and wake up with it. You know, there have even been times when I woke up and told Yanky in the middle of the night, “Wow, I have a name for it, I have a name!” And he’d be like, “Go back to sleep.” Anyway, things like that—different things come to me. So I wake up in the morning and get up for that; I get up and go to the computer. Now, over time, I’ve also developed, as a hobby, a real love for all kinds of printing machines. Right, come on—you wake up in the morning and there’s a machine at home, too. Come on. So I really have an enormous range of... How does that fit, if you’re such a spiritual person? Because it shortens the process for me. I want something, and I have it. I want something, and I have it. I’m not dependent on... Come on, but it’s a kind of paradise that isn’t for everyone. Not everyone would want to learn the technology of complex machines, or buy machines when people have no idea...

23:14 Speaker 2 They’re like enormous machines. In short, there’s a real learning curve. Every machine has its own... But it fascinates you. It fascinates me like crazy. When I want something, I’m on it. But you never feel satisfied, either. I mean, you buy one machine and you’re already thinking about the next. Because then there’s something else I want. Though right now, I think there are only two machines I want. Okay, tell us. No, that’s it. So are you going to tell us what they are? What else? What machines? A more advanced laser machine than the one I have, thank G-d. No, come on, it really is material stuff, and it really excites me. What can I do? Amazing. No, but you connect it. You connect the... Through it, you can bring your essence into the world, that connection. Yes. Amazing. To me, it’s a playground. I mean, I... But I think if I brought in a lot of people who say “playground” and showed it to them, the moment they tried to start working, they’d break out in a sweat. Because in the end, you have to get to know, like, ten or twenty different kinds of machines. I once worked at a print shop with those huge machines. Wow, it was paradise for me. But did you get to use them? Yes, yes, yes, of course. You know, I used to work with a print shop in Tel Aviv, and every so often the owner writes to ask if I want to come in for a few hours. He offers you work. One day he invited me to go with him to an exhibition, because I used to pester him endlessly about the machines. And he’d groan and say, “Do you want to buy this? Do you have a meter-by-meter space free at home?” That’s what he’d ask me. And then one day he called me and said,

24:39 Speaker 2 “Maybe you’ll fly with me to an exhibition?” I said, “Of course, I’m flying with you already.” It didn’t happen. I mean, I’m joking; I wouldn’t have flown with him anyway. But lots of times when he’s under pressure, he writes, “Come on, come in and do a few hours for me at...” That hasn’t happened either. But I really do love it. So you wake up with an idea, and you already know which machines you’re going to use, or...? I usually start creating it on the computer, you know, and then it depends. Take the Beinenu kit, for example: I knew I wanted to make cards. So I went and laid out the cards, and then I knew exactly what the sticker on the box should look like. So I made it. Usually, all the things... I mean, these are things I do myself. Lately I’ve really been trying to hand more of the graphic design over to a graphic designer, but when I want something done right away, it happens right away. Amazing. Beautiful. But fifty percent contributed to that. I—I mean, why do you care? Oh, stop it. Essence. Huh? Why is that... First of all, I think we talked about important things here, and... Thank you so much. You’re fascinating. Thank you. So are you. Thanks. We’ll meet again. Yes.