Ep. 33: How I Got Involved in Publishing The Rebbe’s Sichos with Rabbi Chaim Shaul Brook (Yiddish)

00:00 Speaker 1 In Shas, they had the strength, and they could... [unclear] ...he learned many pages and knew them by heart. The Rebbe once said... [unclear] ...when it came time to learn, it wasn’t there. We learn Torah with effort, and the same applies here. It’s a matter of being immersed in the Rebbe’s Torah. That is the way to bring the Rebbe back. We need to search in the Rebbe’s Torah—to look, to find ourselves there, to see what to do and how to do it.

00:27 Speaker 2 If you enjoyed this podcast, please like and subscribe so others can enjoy it too. And if you’ve benefited in any way from the Among Chassidim podcast and would like to give something back, you can do so today at derher.org/donate. I’m Yossi Kamen. Welcome to Among Chassidim, from Derher: an ongoing farbrengen about life as a chossid, our vibrant connection with the Rebbe, and an inspired life shaped by what he teaches us every day. Sholom aleichem, Reb Chaim Shaul. How are you?

01:08 Speaker 1 Boruch Hashem. Aleichem sholom.

01:10 Speaker 2 Okay, I can already feel it—I’m here with the microphone. And I hope it goes well.

01:18 Speaker 1 With the Rebbe’s help.

01:19 Speaker 2 Okay, may it go well. And here’s the question I’ll ask you, Reb Chaim Shaul.

01:27 Speaker 1 Yes.

01:29 Speaker 2 How many names do you answer to?

01:31 Speaker 1 Why am I called Chaim Shaul? I’m named after my grandfather, my father’s father, Reb Chaim Shaul Brook.

01:36 Speaker 2 Reb Chaim Shaul Brook. You’re also called Shaul, right?

01:40 Speaker 1 Yes.

01:40 Speaker 2 So tell us what comes to mind. Perhaps you can give us a bit of a picture of Shaul Brook.

01:44 Speaker 1 Ah, yes. Briefly, my family history and so on. I was born—but I’ll tell that part later. I’ve told quite a bit about my life story. He was born in 5654, in a Chassidic town called Snovsk. In Lubavitch they called him Shaul Snovsker. The name Chaim was added years later. We’ll get to that soon, when we return to that part of the story. He was named after his grandfather—his great-grandfather—Reb Shaul Levin. Shaul Levin was a chossid of the Mitteler Rebbe. He had been a rabbi in Russia. He left and traveled to Eretz Yisroel in 5640. He was already older, and he went to live in Chevron. There he was the rabbi of the town. He was respected among the chassidim. He passed away in 5653.

02:47 Speaker 13 Did the family remain in Lithuania?

02:48 Speaker 1 The family remained; they didn’t travel with him. The whole family stayed behind. I have letters he wrote to the family that show what conditions were like there in Eretz Yisroel. He passed away in 5603, with a burial... [unclear]. Fifteen years ago, Reb Shaul Montshener [?] passed away; over the years he had become related to me through marriage. He found it in the records of Kollel Chabad, just when they were making... a small headstone. Until the war, they didn’t know that it was... He had the name Nachum. He was a boy of about fourteen or fifteen. In 5667 and 5668, he went to study in Lubavitch. He studied in Lubavitch for eight years, until he married. He married my grandmother, whose name was Zivye. Her father was a chossid, Reb Menachem Mendel, a son of Krasnik. That was his name. His great-grandfather, Reb Menachem Mendel, was a chossid of the Alter Rebbe. Interestingly, Reb Menachem Mendel was a melamed in the town of Beshenkovitch. It was a Chassidic town. [unclear] My father was born there too. When my father was two and a half, the whole town burned down. During the war, my grandfather was nearly killed.

04:11 Speaker 13 In a fire, apparently?

04:12 Speaker 1 A fire. For years [unclear] the fire spread through the whole town. Reb Menachem Mendel appears in a recollection of the Frierdiker Rebbe, in Toras Moharayatz, at the end of Sefer Hamaamarim. The Frierdiker Rebbe was with some of them when they spent Shavuos with Reb Shimon. And they say that after Shavuos, a few days after Shavuos, they traveled to Reb Brinsky. It was a vacation spot where they stayed—a dacha. That was where the house was. On the way, they traveled through Rudnya. They went with Reb Shimon; they traveled together. Then they saw two chassidim sitting under a tree, wearing their tallis and tefillin, reviewing Chassidus. With their eyes closed, they were reviewing Chassidus. Reb Shimon came closer and stood there for a little while, listening to what they were reviewing. They didn’t notice him. As they continued on their way, he told the Frierdiker Rebbe that they were reviewing a maamar that Reb Shimon had delivered on the second day of Shavuos that year. “Go,” the Frierdiker Rebbe said to Reb Shimon, “and...” [unclear] Reb Menachem and the melamdim. He related that for more than three years already, they had walked to Lubavitch every year before Shavuos. In the account in Toras Moharayatz, that was the first year they went. Each year they arrived only after the Shabbos before Shavuos. And in many of the years when Reb Shimon wasn’t in Lubavitch, they went anyway, to hear Reb Mordechai. And

05:40 Speaker 1 they would stay until the Shabbos after Shavuos, then walk home. By then, they had been doing this for more than three years. The Frierdiker Rebbe said, “We’ll continue our journey later.” When they reached Rudnya, it turned out that something was missing from the scene Reb Shimon had witnessed. And Reb Shimon said to him, “You can’t leave it for later generations—look in the sichos.” That... for five thousand six hundred and one years and nine months, with... two of them there, fifteen days and nine minutes, or nine days and fifteen minutes, down to the minutes—the piece of earth had been waiting for the melamed, Reb Menachem Mendel, to repeat those words there. There is more at length about the words, as is customary in “it is considered” and the like, and three [unclear] wanted to. And they say that the Rebbeim pass things on through the merit of children and grandchildren. His father-in-law, my grandfather’s father-in-law. And my grandfather lived near [unclear], and there is one more difficult point. My father was named Menachem. Mendel.

06:50 Speaker 24 Menachem.

06:50 Speaker 1 And he traveled just before my father was born. My father was born in [unclear]. He was born near [unclear]. Before that, my grandfather had moved with the family to a town called Elnoy. Elnoy is a town in Russia, and he held a rabbinic position there. That was for several years. Then, in the last year, for the last Sukkos that the Frierdiker Rebbe spent there, all of his people traveled to him for Sukkos. My grandfather traveled there to meet him and was there to receive him. And the Frierdiker Rebbe traveled and sent a letter. This was across the border. Before that time, he told my grandfather to go establish a yeshiva and to send the family to Zvil. Zvil is near what is called Novograd-Volynsk. There were many chassidim there, chassidim from Reisen, Belarus. The elder Rebbe of Zvil was there; later he traveled to Egypt and was known as Reb Sholom of Zvil. His son was there. My grandfather wrote to the Frierdiker Rebbe that it was difficult: how could he manage with so many chassidim? What should he do with them? The Frierdiker Rebbe answered, “You are an ‘ish chalak,’ an upright person, and you will certainly be able to manage.” Before that, he had been close to him for several years, of course. Sometimes he traveled with only my father. It was related that one [unclear], eight years old, traveled with him. Later, the family arrived. He was arrested for teaching children,

08:15 Speaker 1 with that arrest the first time, and then a second time. Afterward he was sentenced to sweep the streets. I think [unclear] not a single Jew went out into the street while he was supposed to be sweeping. They wanted to humiliate him, so that the Jews would be left without a rabbi. From then on, he tried to find a way out. They worried about the children in Russia; it was very difficult. It didn’t happen so quickly. He studied [unclear] in Zhitomir—my father studied in Zhitomir. Afterward he was in Berdichev, another town not far from Zvil. My father also had an older sister, who married a Tomim named Yankel Schatz, Reb Yankel Schatz. The Communists killed him. One night they came in the middle of the night and killed him. Some time later, my grandfather traveled to Moscow and tried to meet with Kalinin. He did meet him and obtained visas for everyone to leave. My father was already almost eighteen. And at the end of [unclear], or more precisely on the night after Shabbos [unclear], at the end of [unclear], my grandfather traveled with all the children, with his wife, my grandmother, to Eretz Yisroel. They went straight from there, straight to Eretz Yisroel.

09:25 Speaker 31 And was he in contact with the Frierdiker Rebbe during that period?

09:27 Speaker 1 Of course! There are letters; there are references in the correspondence. The Frierdiker Rebbe would write, for example. And my grandfather wrote a letter, wrote [unclear]. And they wrote about how... how, since he wanted to leave, he should word the documents. In most cases it was literal, or in [unclear], it was [unclear]. In other words, there were hints. Even the Frierdiker Rebbe writes, ah, [unclear], literally. [unclear] It was worth the time. There are letters, really short ones, as they say, before—

09:58 Speaker 31 Before.

10:00 Speaker 1 So my grandfather’s letters were not preserved at all. From before Russia—apparently nothing. After Russia, from the time he left, every piece of paper was kept. It’s really remarkable. Among the students, they kept things all their lives. My grandfather’s letters to the Frierdiker Rebbe are in the library, because the Frierdiker Rebbe did come here. Everything arrived here.

10:21 Speaker 31 And he brought it here.

10:23 Speaker 1 The Frierdiker Rebbe was here. And everything has a stamp on it. [unclear]. He sends a letter, [unclear], with a stamp dated 28 Shvat. With that stamp. It was already 28 Shvat where he was. When... that’s also [unclear] an institution, when... it was stamped. Here in the letters there’s a whole section about Russia. There’s Russia, there’s a whole [unclear] here. Letters of the Frierdiker Rebbe. Who else has letters from the Frierdiker Rebbe [unclear], that... that’s already after, after Russia. Who asks whether he should travel to Russia—

10:46 Speaker 31 Who asked, uh, the Frierdiker Rebbe whether to travel to Russia?

10:49 Speaker 1 Of course. People hardly traveled. Until they did travel, it was straightforward.

10:51 Speaker 31 Yes.

10:52 Speaker 1 Not only that. He said they were considering a shidduch for his daughter. There was a shidduch for his student. He asked the Frierdiker Rebbe about everything. He writes where his daughter is and how old she is. And about the situation—that the streets are dangerous, and they don’t give them much time. Now there’s a Tamim, so-and-so. He studies here with me. He writes him all the details. That’s one side of it. Now, this young man wrote to the Frierdiker Rebbe. In time, we— all those letters are here. In time, we, uh, [unclear] daughter, and he got into trouble. [unclear]. My father didn’t quite travel with him. He hadn’t—gotten his visa. He was—the family was about to receive theirs. My aunt got a visa. But my grandfather said, “Don’t travel,” because her husband hadn’t gotten a visa. If she traveled, she would be left an agunah. Those who traveled—they remained in Russia until [unclear]. They couldn’t leave.

11:41 Speaker 31 Well.

11:43 Speaker 1 He was with [unclear], and they stayed here. My grandfather came to Eretz Yisroel and... to find out where she was. He went to live in Rishon LeZion. For a while he went to Tel Aviv, to the home of Rabbi Moshe Roslavsky’s father. He ate at Rabbi Aharon Babitch’s home; he ate at— that was later. Roslavsky ate at Babitch’s home. Rabbi Aharon, all the Babitches. He lived in Tel Aviv. [unclear] another home [unclear]. A small family with children. Until later, uh, after Yom Tov, he traveled. As before, to live in Rishon LeZion. Here, uh, an attempt—they mention it at the rabbinate. At that point the Frierdiker Rebbe wanted him to come to America.

12:16 Speaker 31 If they put—

12:16 Speaker 1 Every one of the chassidim who left, who left Russia—the Frierdiker Rebbe asked them to serve as emissaries. A small portion of the many who left. [unclear] came to America as an emissary. He couldn’t go back, because there was a war. Many chassidim arrived here. The Frierdiker Rebbe wanted him to travel to America to establish a yeshiva, [unclear]. Eighteen years from... Stalin’s world, to establish a yeshiva. And my grandfather was trying to do just that. He said he had an aptitude for teaching Gemara, Rashi and Tosafos to the children. To establish a yeshiva. And the Frierdiker Rebbe [unclear]. There are letters here from [unclear], from Shaul Jacobson. And he writes to Shaul Jacobson. My grandfather writes to Shaul Jacobson. This is what he writes him: he doesn’t want to travel, he wants to... he’s going to travel. They’re traveling for a year.

13:03 Speaker 31 Uh, not with the family, not—

13:04 Speaker 1 No, but for a two-year trip. That’s how it worked out. The Frierdiker Rebbe felt the family should travel with him; they would want to live together. And he traveled. He writes him that, in general, he doesn’t want to travel. Or that if he did travel, then from Europe—he hadn’t seen the Rebbe in ten years already. So he relents: I’ll travel, provided I can have yechidus with the Rebbe, and afterward he’ll go to America. In Poland, I think, they always had to give the consulate, the American consulate, a deposit. In fact, a deposit had to be put up in America so that he could travel abroad and not remain here. It wasn’t like during the Trump era, but it was, I don’t know, quite difficult. Five hundred dollars. That was no small thing. They didn’t have the money. My grandfather went to his brother-in-law, to... to Nachman Mendel Greznik, to his son. His name was Shalom; he was a shochet. Shalom Greznik. But he didn’t have five hundred dollars; that was a large sum for him [unclear]. My grandfather stayed where he was. Meanwhile, he became ill with [unclear] in his intestines. He was bedridden, between life and death. It wasn’t something that could, uh, as people say, [unclear]. They added the name Chaim to his name. He lived another twenty-seven years after that.

14:08 Speaker 31 That’s Chaim Shaul.

14:09 Speaker 1 Yes. And... he writes a letter to Shaul Jacobson about what happened. He says, “The doctors have already given up. He... he isn’t going to live.” He writes to him, “To be with the dead and to be with the living.”

14:25 Speaker 31 Jacobson writes that?

14:26 Speaker 1 No, my grandfather writes to Jacobson. But, “To be with the dead and to be with the living.” And he sent two telegrams to the Rebbe, and that’s where [unclear]: “I’m there. Now I still need to rest, until... but I don’t have a visa. So you submit a form from Rishon LeZion to the consulate in Jerusalem. You need to go borrow money,” he writes. In the end, the uncle, who wasn’t traveling. He travels [unclear], he believes, and he went. And there he was already working at the yeshiva in... in... uh, Tel Aviv.

14:52 Speaker 31 He said he had the yeshiva in Tel Aviv.

14:54 Speaker 1 A yeshiva in... uh, [unclear].

14:56 Speaker 31 There were already chassidim then—

14:57 Speaker 1 There was one; he was only [unclear]. There was a chossid, quite early on, who really drew people in. Yes, there was the yeshiva in Tel Aviv, and they studied at a very, very, very high level. It wasn’t Lubavitch yet. It was a Chassidic yeshiva.

15:09 Speaker 31 There were two yeshivos, in Rishon LeZion and Tel Aviv?

15:11 Speaker 1 Rishon LeZion was a yeshiva, but that was later too. Later. Tel Aviv had the yeshiva, the... the... It later became the one in Lod. Chabad came into it later. That was the yeshiva that developed in Tel Aviv. And... uh, we go with my grandfather to [unclear] Torah. And he—he said he was their rosh yeshiva and had a great influence on them.

15:26 Speaker 31 They weren’t Lubavitch students.

15:27 Speaker 1 There were many; there were older Lubavitchers who wanted to study there. Uh, Reb Yela, Reb Shacher, Schamberg-Goldfeld—they were all, uh, in later years at— There’s also the continuation here: the yeshivos had students, uh, Kfar Chabad, Rabbi Ashkenazi with, uh, with, uh, Yaroslavsky, Reb Srul Shmotkin. They all studied, they were all at the yeshiva there, in the— And [unclear], I sometimes go there, to the yeshiva. Shmuel Keber, his brother, [unclear]. When I think about it, that’s [unclear]. But there were many who weren’t Lubavitchers. Others stayed. Like Reb Munka Grozman. His father was still [unclear], but he—he studied Chassidus; it didn’t become his home. It wasn’t like it used to be, or like today [unclear], entering into Chassidus as people do now. That’s how my grandfather’s [unclear] was; he writes about the young men. About every young man in [unclear], he writes: “This one is a Ger chossid; at the end of the year his father [unclear] his son,” because the son had already [gone] to the yeshiva that year. “This one may be a Slonimer; his father didn’t let him stay here. This one may stay another year. This one belongs among chassidim; this one doesn’t.” He had a very powerful effect on the young men. He believed in Rishon [LeZion]. Every week there was Erev Shabbos, but a gathering at the yeshiva would take place the next day, on Shabbos or Sunday morning, and he would usually come before Shabbos. The yeshiva ran all week. And they all learned from him, they said,

16:42 Speaker 1 They learned much more from him when he was asleep at night, when he held a farbrengen with himself at night, than during the day. Of course they learned during the day, and they learned the Chassidus they learned. But it was with that same [unclear] of what people think a chossid should be. At night they saw how the man would get up and sit and learn. Not while fully conscious. People would say, the soul descends below only to go relieve itself; only the soul descends, uh, only [unclear] knocks, but it doesn’t sit and learn. Before that, he would also sit and learn a little.

17:05 Speaker 32 Yes, before, [unclear] at night.

17:07 Speaker 1 Before going to sleep at night, he would usually go and say Tikkun Chatzos, and afterward he would sit down to learn. And even late at night, when he fell asleep with a sefer in his hand, he talked to himself, argued with himself, [unclear] with himself. You can see how much more—uh, you see that years later, talmidei chachamim, sixty years later, the students here who are still alive, the older ones, speak about him with such feeling, with such—they miss him. It, it was, uh—

17:34 Speaker 32 And there was also the matter of material needs, wasn’t there?

17:37 Speaker 1 That’s another matter. Material things didn’t interest him. Once I asked my mother. My mother came from a Jerusalem family. On the other hand, my mother was a granddaughter of Reb Yosef Chaim Sonnenfeld, the rabbi in Jerusalem, Reb Akiva Yosef Schlesinger. And her father was a Jew, a Jerusalem Jew, with that whole pedigree. I asked, “How did the match come about?” My father was a young man with a full beard, a young man who worked and earned a living. Here I have to believe him when he says, “She made the decision herself. It really didn’t bother her.” She wasn’t—she would also say something like, “Well, at least I won’t have a good-for-nothing. He won’t be a good-for-nothing, certainly not.” [unclear]. Apparently, he knew about the yeshiva, and he went to work at the yeshiva, and he was there, [unclear]. They came with Sholom Chaim. And he went that route, [unclear]. He says, “The cheerful fellow is going with Sholom Chaim; let him come and be the mashpia.” And he went to Rishon LeZion to establish the yeshiva. To establish the yeshiva, he writes to the Rebbe that he wants to establish it. And the Rebbe tells him—this was a seventy-seven-year-old Jew. Today, a seventy-seven-year-old Jew doesn’t go off and establish institutions with such energy. Back then, a seventy-seven-year-old Jew had been through [unclear] three times, had been [unclear], had already lived a great deal. And he himself wanted to, there... and—

19:07 Speaker 1 The Rebbe says that there is enough work here in the vineyard of Chabad. You know? The Rebbe left that to him.

19:11 Speaker 33 And in Rishon LeZion, isn’t that called the vineyard of Chabad? After all, already—

19:14 Speaker 1 No, we’re establishing—

19:15 Speaker 33 Ah.

19:15 Speaker 1 You can’t tell this story in a few days, let alone briefly. There was a committee of five people. There were my father, my grandfather, and my uncle. There was Uri Ben Shachar, Rabbi Yaakov Yosef Raskin, who lived in Rishon LeZion. And there was Rabbi Yeshaya Shmotkin. Yeshaya Shmotkin—Shmotkin was a relative. His father was a relative. Or, uh, perhaps his father was a brother. Exactly, that’s, uh, exactly. And Yeshaya Shmotkin was a Jew from Podolia. He raised money for the yeshiva. He did, uh, something connected with—one thing for the yeshiva, and another to establish Beis Yaakov. He did that, uh—

19:49 Speaker 33 [unclear].

19:50 Speaker 1 With pennies. [unclear]. And my grandfather went to establish the yeshiva. He also worked for another four years and built the building. It was the first building Chabad built in Eretz Yisroel. There had been other institutions before, as I see it, but nothing like that, and not with [unclear]. That’s separate from Chevron. They bought a building, a ready-made building, in Jerusalem. In Lod, or in the orchard. A new building—his was the first that he built.

20:15 Speaker 33 Well, they barely had the money for it.

20:16 Speaker 1 Well, there was barely any money. My father told me several times that he worked for two weeks pouring the cement himself. That way it cost less. They built one floor, and then another floor afterward. Mother writes, writes to the students: he sits in the yeshiva all day; he thinks it’s easy; he goes [unclear]. He wasn’t thinking of earning money. And he wrote letters all over the world, and calculations, and things like that. Here, in the letters the Rebbe writes to—to everyone [unclear], as a favor to Chabad, that no one here should push, and this needs to be mentioned. The Rebbe gives the example of several Jews. One of them, the Rebbe says, is Rabbi Brook in Buenos Aires, who wasn’t supported from America; they didn’t send him money. He went and built the building himself, he says, and a favor to Chabad was not [unclear]. That was how it was a favor to Chabad in Eretz Yisroel. And [unclear], you’re right, that was disrupted too, he says, because a lot of [unclear] was disrupted. The Rebbe writes about it again in letters, [unclear] that here it is heresy, [unclear], [unclear]. Rabbi Brook—what he does isn’t supported; they do it, [unclear], [unclear]. He was a Jew from the yeshiva, until, until, until he went [unclear]. But when my father left Russia—my father left a few days after [unclear]—when they issued the visa, he couldn’t travel from Odessa to Eretz Yisroel. He—

21:33 Speaker 1 He traveled to Riga. He was in Riga [unclear]. In Riga, back then, there was a health resort. There was a Dr. Hertz there, and the Rebbetzin was there at the time, at a gathering. My father, as a young man, would eat; the Rebbetzin would farbreng; and at night [unclear] travel here. He had one suitcase with his belongings, and the second suitcase held an entire Shas—an entire Shas in two volumes. And he farbrenged the whole night. There was a plate of potatoes on the table that he didn’t finish. They said l’chaim, ate a little, took a little. Afterward, when they traveled, they naturally went through Vienna. The Frierdiker Rebbe was in Vienna—not in the city of Vienna itself. He was in two places, one [unclear] and the other in Purkersdorf. A place for treatment, [unclear] medical treatment. The Frierdiker Rebbe was an extraordinary tzaddik.

22:19 Speaker 33 Was that your father?

22:20 Speaker 1 Whenever the Frierdiker Rebbe was somewhere, someone was with him. The Rebbe, the Rebbetzin, his brother-in-law himself—there was always someone from the family. When my father arrived, he had never seen the Frierdiker Rebbe. But little by little, on his own—when he was a child, with the Rebbe, in those dangerous years, when, as they said, they knew what a Rebbe was from what they had heard. A Russian boy arrived, an eighteen-year-old boy. Before the trip they called him Chosson-Kohen[?]. And he was supposed to report to the Frierdiker Rebbe, without any set order, everything that was happening: what was happening with the learning, what was happening with the farbrengens, everything that—what was happening in Riga, which Rebbe was there, what was happening here in the house, in the courtyard.

22:56 Speaker 33 But the Frierdiker Rebbe already didn’t like [unclear]?

22:57 Speaker 1 Well, he didn’t like it, but not [unclear]. He was in Riga, but he was there for treatment. And he was there for a while. My father traveled and arrived; on 3 Nissan he arrived from Purkersdorf. On the way from Vienna, a young man from England—while the Frierdiker Rebbe was seeking medical treatment, many young married men from England had yechidus. He had confidence in himself. He had enough years behind him, but still, no. But my father arrived as a young man from Russia, who was [unclear]. And many young married men from England had yechidus; he came [unclear]. He never knew until a year later who the English person was. It was one of the daughters. It was the Rebbetzin, Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka; she was with the Frierdiker Rebbe. We also don’t know exactly where he was, when, who was where, when, and with whom. And she was the Englishwoman; there were many young married men, twenty-five [unclear] young married men [unclear]. When he came out of the yechidus, he was so [unclear]. He remembered one thing: the Frierdiker Rebbe had told him that he wanted to give him money to help with the journey. A young man from—. The Russian boys knew this, they knew it: take money from the Rebbe? You give money to the Rebbe. You owe the Rebbe. He said, “Rebbe, I don’t need assistance; I have money.” The Rebbe said, “I want—I want to be a partner in your journey.” He took the money. He went away from the—

24:10 Speaker 1 He arrives [unclear], pays for his father and for himself, and arrives just before Pesach. My father was beside himself. No one was there then. He hadn’t been there for ten years, perhaps nine. And the boys, once [unclear]. What did the Rebbe say? Remember, twenty-five, and he said, “I [unclear].” Father [unclear] wrote a letter to the Rebbe, to the Frierdiker Rebbe, saying that I [unclear]. The Frierdiker Rebbe wrote him a letter. “The student, [unclear] Brook, [unclear], who was here with me. I [unclear]. I said, he is traveling [unclear]. I asked that he go in [unclear] Rabbi [unclear] Chavitz and study with him, and that he have success in his learning, with perseverance and diligence.” And the letter again—about the letter. I’m skipping years; just the main point: I published the Frierdiker Rebbe’s Igros Kodesh. Now I’m looking at a letter the Frierdiker Rebbe wrote to Reb Mordechai Chefetz. It’s unclear. He writes about the studies and the order in the shul and the community, and, “You should know, from everything I’ve heard from various places—first of all, the student [unclear] Brook was here with me, that he should [unclear] in the beis midrash now.” He gave him a mission, and it seemed he was going out to do what they had [unclear]. I should have remembered. He asks the Frierdiker Rebbe and receives the answer: “Go, sit and learn, and be well.” Yes, he only asks what happened, and writes to him what happened. Ah, an interesting thing. Um, when... they’re already asking me [unclear] about Bnei El, to, to, to the Rebbe, to—

25:35 Speaker 1 The Frierdiker Rebbe. As I said earlier, we found this right after his time. Reb Srul Friedman would always say, “Ah, they were mekusharim—connected to the Rebbe—not like today, when someone thinks he knows what ‘connected’ means.” They weren’t necessarily observant, but they knew who was in charge. I can tell you one thing. I have something in my possession, and other grandchildren have things too: from my father, of blessed memory, from my grandfather, from the Rebbe’s letters to my grandfather. My grandfather himself received sixty-seven letters from the Rebbe. The first is from 24 Elul 5689, a response to a pidyon nefesh he had sent to the Rebbe Rashab. And what did he send with the pidyon nefesh? Instead of giving money, he sent something as his pidyon. He didn’t send money, so to speak; he sent a handwritten manuscript of the Rebbe Maharash, an actual holy book. A holy book. That was the value of his pidyon. Aha. And the Rebbe thanks him profusely: “Yaakov, shlita,” “many thanks, many thanks.” In those days, nothing like that had ever been given as the value of a pidyon. He would farbreng about it for weeks, about what he had heard from Reb Sudak. He would talk that week about what the Rebbe had accomplished through it. [unclear]. The Rebbe wants it done this way: with something that truly pains him to give up, something he cannot part with. For me, parting with a manuscript is a thousand times harder. I have no money, but I can’t part with this. This is what I give the Rebbe. That was the value of the pidyon he would always send—

26:45 Speaker 1 a manuscript. Of his sixty-seven letters, more than fifty are from the Frierdiker Rebbe himself. It wasn’t just about him personally; they concerned that yeshiva. In his letters you find things about that yeshiva. The Rebbe was involved with that yeshiva, and with me personally at that yeshiva. What did he write? Then there are countless letters here, dozens of letters to students, to my maggid shiur at the yeshiva, to the mashpi’im. We would say, “Speak to him.” We would say, “Ask him.” And sometimes, as the Rebbe would do, he would send him advice. The Rebbe wrote to a certain person and sent him advice. I said, “Come, speak to him,” because... We don’t know what he said. A long letter, which [unclear] filled. And your grandfather—your grandfather didn’t see the Rebbe for years and years? No. It’s a pity he didn’t come. My father once told me that he saw the Rebbe once. That he personally—the grandfather—saw him once. I saw him once even earlier, when I was with the Frierdiker Rebbe; once he saw him with the... Yes. That’s what my father told me. I don’t know. And your grandfather—did he come to visit? He came; it’s a pity about that. Here the first ones arrive, the first ones—the charter flight. The first charter flight, they arrive. There were pictures. I once heard a Jewish man tell the story. So he came, he came with his wife. She was his second wife. She was Shalom Goldschmid’s mother. A widow. He says, “Years—”

28:02 Speaker 1 “Your husband married in Chevron then.” [unclear]. She married [unclear], and Shalom was a student there too. Once he said, “Ah, you want to pay for the tickets? Who has money for a ticket?” The Rebbe says, “A ticket from here to there costs six months’ rent. Six months.” The Rebbe says, [unclear]. It stood opposite the square; I’m putting it together. And he approached one daughter—she wasn’t such a child anymore—together with my grandmother, [unclear]. At my grandmother’s. That was my grandmother, my step-grandmother. To be with his wife. And he approached, outside—that’s what Ber Leibik said. They saw him turn around; his nerves were getting to him, and he went in. Meanwhile he related that something had happened to someone in the family, a material concern, some problem—a health problem for a family member. And Reb Velvel says, “What do you do? How can you cry out like that?” He says, “Reb Velvel, would you go in even today?” What was it? He says, “There? How could one ask about material matters?” People couldn’t accept that such a thing was possible. That was the education in Lubavitch: there, you couldn’t say—as the Rebbe writes—“I’m asking about material matters.” No. I mean, the Rebbe says in those sichos that a Lubavitcher chossid comes to the Rebbe; he has a difficulty involving a daughter, a shidduch, something like that. How can he talk about it? He goes in for yechidus.

29:17 Speaker 1 Then he takes it and says to him, “Now you’ll be able to understand this matter.” And the father comes to the daughter and tells her, “The wife mustn’t let him travel.” Yes. And once, he was weeping, and people were already going in to him with all their concerns. That was the education. It wasn’t just something the Rebbe said; that was how they were brought up. I can’t even describe what it was like. Okay. And I can... I tried to shorten it anyway. That’s good. Okay, that was something about a Jewish man whom everyone knows, and... I don’t know, everyone knows about him. It’s... and... Yes, I think he really wore a shirt, yes, yes. It had to do with... He said he found things that seemed like an injustice concerning his daughter. That it never works out. It was there—ah, he wore that [gave it to him]? Yes. I know that in that case, with each side of the wedding, the chuppah side, the other man’s side. [unclear] He set it and said, “I’ll conduct the chuppah in Jerusalem.” He came to the yeshiva the next day and said, “So we’ll do it after the chuppah that was scheduled.” He said, “At twelve-ten?” He said, “Yes, that’s part of the yeshiva’s schedule. Here, we keep to the time.” But his children were very sensitive emotionally... because the chuppah, [unclear].

30:27 Speaker 1 [unclear]. Okay. Perhaps we can move now to the [unclear]? Your aunt was in... ah, Tiras Shemesh, in Eretz Yisroel. Your aunt was in Tiras Shemesh. She went to work there. The son-in-law went to live in Rishon LeZion. Your aunt? He lived in Rishon LeZion. He lived and worked there. He still worked there as an accountant. And he lived alone in Rishon LeZion. My mother came from a Jerusalem family, and when she moved to Rishon LeZion, she was the only woman who covered her hair. She isn’t here. And she worked there with the children. She looked after [unclear]. He worked, he worked near the brewery, and later with wine. He drove a truck. He worked hard to earn a living, you could say. My brother was born, my eldest brother, a"h—ah, Roman. He was born [unclear], and then a sister, and then, ah, my brother Levi Yitzchok. Was he the youngest in the family? Yes, the youngest. My brother Levi Yitzchok was born [unclear]. My father gave him the name Levi Yitzchok, and the first one was Levi Yitzchok. Why did he give him the name Levi Yitzchok? It was... She meant Levi Yitzchok, who, as he discovered later, was there in... ah, Alma-Ata—meanwhile—they gave him that name. But there was also [unclear] there, and afterward they gave—

31:47 Speaker 1 Yosef Yitzchok. Yes. I forgot: my father himself had thirty-one letters from the Frierdiker Rebbe. From... from wherever that must have been. He was... That’s part of it: he was already a young man of, ah, twenty-one, thirty-two years. He was, ah, a chossid [unclear] of the Frierdiker Rebbe. What? Why didn’t he give the name Yosef Yitzchok? What? There was a Jewish man living in Rishon LeZion, a certain man named Raskin—Dovid Raskin was there. He had known Reb Itche since Alma-Ata. And she wrote to him in a letter: what would happen about naming a child after Mother? The Rebbe received that. She had only one more daughter, and they all were given [unclear]. And that same Raskin wrote my grandfather a letter about the child born to my father, to my own father, [unclear]. My grandfather, my father’s father, was a holy man. What did he tell him? It was... [unclear] ... at the Shabbos table. My grandfather told him, “You want to give the Rebbe nachas? Name him Levi Yitzchok.” What do you make of that? She was in prison. She [unclear]. And my father wasn’t thinking about giving the Rebbe nachas; he gave him the name Levi Yitzchok. I believe my father had nothing to do with that. I mean, he did have something to do with it, but he didn’t know [unclear]. The letter was [unclear]. He wrote the Rebbe a letter and told him he had given the name; the Rebbe [unclear]. The Rebbe sent it,

33:08 Speaker 1 He gave the name—may Hashem grant him life—and he writes the names of the other children too. He brings it in the letter, number 12. He published the letters; they publish the sichos. The Rebbe writes, “It gives me the greatest pleasure that he named his son with the name mentioned,” z"l. And the Rebbe wishes him peace, nachas from the children, and nachas from himself. [unclear] what the Rebbe writes. For Chanukah, the Rebbe sent him money for the child—ten dollars—so he could go buy something. My father sent it back; he didn’t take the money. He thought she hadn’t meant it for him. A letter comes from the Rebbe—that is, the mother sends it to him. She writes to him again about the name. She sent him a little outfit, made to the child’s measurements. Every two or three years, perhaps they took a picture of the grandson and thought to send it. He never knew my mother. My mother also had [unclear] of Shlomo, who... she... where is it—the Rebbe wrote to her for Chanukah, because she had given the name. She says, “The child is growing.” “How is he? How are the other children?” she says. And... on it goes. My father lived [unclear] until 5750, the 21st. Now I’ll tell you about the children’s education there in... My oldest brother sent me to Chabad in Lod when I was nine. And the others—there was a Talmud Torah there, it was—

34:28 Speaker 1 Not a cheder, no. We had the Rebbetzin’s house; there was someone who went to Jerusalem. I mean, my father, the Rebbetzin, near Jerusalem. [unclear] nineteen years there. After that, we were little children here. He went to Chabad because the girls—he had two daughters in Chabad, here, girls in... there in Jerusalem... Since they were alone in Jerusalem, they went there and stayed until 5721.

34:50 Speaker 34 When were you born?

34:51 Speaker 1 5727.

34:52 Speaker 34 5727. In Jerusalem?

34:55 Speaker 1 Jerusalem.

34:56 Speaker 34 And you went to... [unclear] in Jerusalem?

34:58 Speaker 1 For a while I was in a regular cheder. Then I moved to the Chabad neighborhood, to the cheder in the Chabad neighborhood.

35:04 Speaker 34 The Chabad neighborhood. And at age seven?

35:06 Speaker 1 At seven, we went to Talmud Torah.

35:09 Speaker 34 So what years was that? Not Talmud Torah, but—

35:11 Speaker 1 No, Talmud Torah was my cheder.

35:14 Speaker 34 Ah.

35:14 Speaker 1 But I entered yeshivah in 5740, and I was there until... until 5745. In 5744, in the summer of 5744, I traveled from there and wanted to stay here. And the rabbi sent me straight back. I hid out with him to learn [unclear]. And I traveled [unclear]. And—

35:33 Speaker 34 [Unclear]?

35:33 Speaker 1 [Unclear].

35:34 Speaker 34 You mean Tishrei?

35:35 Speaker 1 No, in Tishrei I was [unclear]. I had been there once before. When I couldn’t stay, that was in Sivan 5736, I think.

35:41 Speaker 34 [Unclear], and the rabbi wanted—

35:42 Speaker 1 I hid out with him to learn [unclear]. I went for a while, and then when I arrived in 5735, I was—

35:46 Speaker 34 5735, the fifth.

35:47 Speaker 1 The fifth. And I got there and... stayed there.

35:49 Speaker 34 I have a question: When you were in Eretz Yisroel, [unclear], as a bochur, as a child, what was your connection, your sense of belonging, to the Rebbe [unclear]?

36:02 Speaker 1 Well, at home, from time to time we had [unclear]. I had letters that were here. I’ve already forgotten. My brother Ahar’le, [unclear], had been here briefly, before I was born. He was here briefly in 5724.

36:14 Speaker 34 Mm-hmm.

36:14 Speaker 1 He became [unclear], the father of [unclear].

36:17 Speaker 34 Yes.

36:17 Speaker 1 But later, from the time I was four, my brother Levitzi was here. Then my brother Shmulik was here. Only later did my brother Yaakov arrive. Phone calls were rare. There would be a short call from here. Levitzi always had a phone in his room here, while we didn’t have a phone at home. We had no phone at home. On the other hand, there were letters. Don’t forget the letters. There was an uncle here in Boro Park who would come to a farbrengen here: “Don’t forget to come and write; don’t forget to write that down.” That’s what we had at home back then. Eventually there were [unclear] broadcasts. Broadcasts we watched, [unclear], 20 Kislev, [unclear].

36:53 Speaker 34 In Jerusalem?

36:54 Speaker 1 Yes.

36:54 Speaker 34 Who would be there?

36:55 Speaker 1 That was—even when it was on 20 Kislev here, I don’t remember it on 20 Kislev, but I do remember [unclear]. I was always a child then. Don’t forget, once, on 20 Kislev... What do I mean? Every 20 Kislev there was a farbrengen here. We had what we had then. [unclear] Let me tell you two things. The first [unclear] brought two more things: there were the shluchim who arrived. What else was there? The first person who brought it was [unclear].

37:29 Speaker 34 The films?

37:30 Speaker 1 He came with a film, maybe only a two-hour film, and took it all around. In Jerusalem, one night, they rented a hall; you paid admission and watched it. He made it a big thing, [unclear]. Many people who had never seen the Rebbe saw him for the first time [unclear]—saw something moving, not a still picture. Every year he spent two weeks going around Chabad [unclear], in Jerusalem, [unclear]. He made the rounds to show... the Rebbe’s table. Everybody went to it; we waited for it, [unclear]. Don’t forget, back then it wasn’t like now, when everyone has WhatsApp. None of those things existed. What we saw that time is unforgettable. The first time, on 19 Kislev, we saw the Rebbe for the first time—it was on 11 Nissan, in the summer. We saw the Rebbe for the first time on... what do you call it? Live. We could see what was happening there in America; that was already on 11 Nissan. For the first time we saw the Rebbe in a live broadcast. You know what they did in the Binyanei HaUma hall? It had four thousand seats, and not just Chabad people were pushing

38:51 Speaker 1 to get inside. Can you imagine? It was truly alive! The Rebbe was speaking right then, and we could see the Rebbe. I went a few times. There was no room, there was [unclear], but there were people who had never seen anything like it, you know. And it cost money; it wasn’t free. That was how it was then. The first [unclear] brought, I think, the sicha in [unclear]. But the shluchim—the shluchim didn’t come. There were two of them in Jerusalem. I remember something interesting about them; it comes to mind while we’re talking about the yeshivah. It went on for weeks. What a generation that was! The shluchim were... I know what happened. What do you mean? They went. They took the [unclear], you know.

39:26 Speaker 35 On Wednesday they held a farbrengen—

39:27 Speaker 1 No, well, on Wednesday people were stirred up. A sicha had come out then. They said, “The Likkutei Sichos would normally arrive two or three weeks later.” Can you imagine? A short sicha, and then the Likkutei Sichos arrives from New York. And how many bochurim came? Ten bochurim from all over Jerusalem. I was there with [unclear] Stein and Tuvia Brori. And we were the only ones who learned the Likkutei Sichos, even though [unclear] what the Rebbe [unclear]. The regular bochurim—but Likkutei Sichos was [unclear], more precious than Torah. And we knew what was in the sefer, which sicha was which; we knew it differently. The shluchim brought the sicha in [unclear]. Another thing, later on, when [unclear], they began publishing the hanachos. In 5735 they would usually publish the Yiddish sicha; it hadn’t arrived. It came out in the hanachos. From then, up to my first sicha in the hanachos, [unclear]. I also traveled with some of the sichos around Eretz Yisroel, not just in Jerusalem, you know? And the bochurim in the yeshivah were new, and ten of Anash. On Fridays we would go to the place to pick them up. There was a shul there, with three people, an Anash shul. I would go there. By then there was more energy, and we were learning. Don’t forget, [unclear] in the yeshivah. Every farbrengen. It wasn’t only on Yom Tov, [unclear]. There was vitality, joy, celebration, and sichos. Everything.

40:50 Speaker 1 [unclear]. We learned in yeshiva; we heard something. Our mashpi’im convinced us to write things down, not to let the sichos go to waste. For example, when you write it down afterward, your whole mind is on it, and it sinks in. After a farbrengen, people would ask, “What did they talk about there?” What, what, what—what do you do with that? It grew stronger and stronger. In other words, what was already there simply met the technology. It became, uh—[unclear]. What was the question? Yes. What was it? What do you think about traveling to the Rebbe? In [unclear], how many Jews traveled? In [unclear], three or four Jews traveled from Eretz Yisroel. [unclear] traveled. The numbers grew; travel became easier, and it became—not so much because of money. I don’t remember [unclear] actually traveling, going in to a farbrengen from [unclear] rather than traveling there. [unclear]. When I was there for two or three weeks, where did I go? When did the businessmen come? All the [unclear] in the world travel in and out. Later, in [unclear], I traveled with all the [unclear]. I traveled to [unclear]. How did I travel to [unclear]? People traveled for the whole of Tishrei then. For two days. Afterward I was simply here. You see the Rebbe in the morning, and then you have to travel to [unclear]. That was the day, the first time people traveled to the Rebbe. I was lucky. In my class, I was even luckier: I was the first to travel. And not only

42:03 Speaker 1 was I the first to travel, I was the first to go twice, and the first to go three times. My mother and father had four sons. We were all here. My mother wanted to see. I saw for several years. You travel and see together with the children. Yes, you travel, you travel. It was 5736, I think; we went in ’76. I was a little boy, nine years old. Well, if you leave him at home, my father goes to work at five in the morning, we go to shul at five or six in the morning, and maybe there’s a trip, maybe a trip somewhere, so we go to daven, perhaps in Haifa or Tel Aviv, with a truck carrying wine, and we daven there. He couldn’t leave the child at home, thinking, “I’ll go to cheder; I’ll manage.” My sisters went to stay with my other, married sister. He took me with him.

42:42 Speaker 3 With your mother?

42:43 Speaker 1 Yes, with— That was my good fortune. We got there. The first time I saw the Rebbe was in 5736, at Mincha. I was standing in the middle of the hall. On that Yom Tov it was empty; everyone was standing. I stood there, a little boy. I remember a tzedakah box, the metal tzedakah box, resting on a siddur when the Rebbe came in. And the Rebbe looked. I didn’t know what it was. He went straight up to it. I was standing there. That was my first time seeing the Rebbe, and the Rebbe came into the small hall. It was in 5736. After his farbrengen—I swear, perhaps I was there, I don’t remember, but I remember, I swear I remember it, here in the Beis Hamikdash, I swear. I wasn’t there for the entire farbrengen. Yes, certainly, from halfway through Shabbos. He took me inside. He also took me back out. And I was there for four weeks altogether. We went to cheder, though sometimes we didn’t. I wasn’t allowed to play, but we were there with the children on Asarah B’Teves.

43:42 Speaker 3 Did you travel when you were older?

43:43 Speaker 1 Later, when I was older, it was 5739. I was older then. We were still—this brings us right here. I had a, uh, yechidus.

43:53 Speaker 3 With your mother?

43:53 Speaker 1 Yes. I can’t remember the exact date. My mother told me to write it down, and we still haven’t found it. Later we found [unclear], from when we were here. Uh, I hope to find it one day. It was either in Shvat or in Teves, in 5736. We went in for yechidus together. I remember my brother Leivitchi telling me, “It’s a much bigger room. Go up to the desk.” To a child, all of that really is big. I looked at [unclear]. We went right up to the desk. We stood there, little children. I saw the Rebbe leaning forward, right toward me.

44:23 Speaker 3 The Rebbe was sitting.

44:23 Speaker 1 Yes. The Rebbe asked my mother to sit down. “Sit down,” the Rebbe said. We kept standing. Again: “Sit down.” The third time she said, “I’m comfortable like this.” The Rebbe immediately asked what I was learning. I told him what I was learning. We were learning [unclear]. That went on for five solid minutes: What was the initial assumption? What was the conclusion? What was the main point? What was relevant? What made it necessary here? The Rebbe saw that I knew how to answer, the way a child answers. This was already my second yechidus, and I was trembling a little. I was a few years older and more afraid. Then the Rebbe asked how far I had learned. There was a bookmark at the right page, and it went all the way to the end there. I had learned through the next page. I said, “How far?” The Rebbe asked another question. I no longer remember what it was, but I didn’t know how to answer. I didn’t know. The Rebbe immediately asked, “Do you know how many tzitzis there are here?” I answered right away, “Two, four corners, and thirty-two tzitzis.” He opened a drawer; there was exactly a hundred dollars. When I answered, the Rebbe said, “Because you know, I’ll give you a hundred dollars to give to tzedakah.” I looked at my mother. There in the drawer was a hundred dollars, a bundle of hundred-dollar bills. Uh, [unclear].

45:36 Speaker 1 He held out his hand and said, “Whatever you can give from it, you can distribute either to a Chabad tzedakah fund or to [unclear].” With that, the yechidus ended—five minutes. My mother told me all my life that at my first yechidus, when the Rebbe told us to sit down, I couldn’t—I literally couldn’t utter a sound. A note was held in his hand, together with the child. Later, my brother Shmulik was already a chosson, on 2 Shvat. This was already 19 Teves; it was the day— On that same day, my father brought the whole family. Everyone came—all the sons, all the daughters. Each one went in for yechidus. I think it was at the end of Teves; that’s how I remember it.

46:14 Speaker 3 Was that with the Karlin chassidim? That—no.

46:16 Speaker 1 It was just my father, my mother, me, and two of my sisters, who were older than me, and other girls. As soon as we went in, the Rebbe asked what I was learning. I was, in fact, learning [unclear]. The Rebbe asked questions for eight minutes. I answered. My voice was shaking. So I was trying to collect myself; I meant [unclear]. But, boruch Hashem, I answered. Afterward he spoke for another five minutes with my father, and... about his sisters in Russia. A blessing. And the Rebbe said, “I’ll look into it further. You need a connection.” The Rebbe did say the word yechidus. This was in Uman. And the Rebbe said, “You can ask the Breslov chassidim. That is their custom.”

47:00 Speaker 3 Mm.

47:01 Speaker 1 My father said, “I need to have a connection to that.” So to speak, that was the yechidus. Each time I had five minutes, and once I had eight minutes. That makes thirteen minutes. Everything I do with the sichos, the maamarim, the Tanya—whatever else you like—it’s all in repayment for those thirteen minutes. And I believe I still haven’t repaid them. The Rebbe gave another thirteen minutes of his time. I hope that, with Hashem’s help, I’ll manage to repay the debt of those thirteen minutes. The Rebbe took that time from his own time—as they say, out of my own pocket.

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49:26 Speaker 3 of Derher through your financial support, as well as by visiting our website, derher.org, or contacting us to arrange a meeting. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the podcast.

49:37 Speaker 4 Was that your first year going in for yechidus?

49:53 Speaker 5 Yes. It happened two or three times. After that, when people heard us, they would say, “Don’t forget him.” People started shouting, and he says, “That’s what the Rebbe said.”

50:03 Speaker 4 That was once, during a certain period.

50:05 Speaker 5 Forget it, it was a bit of a thing. But there was a time when people asked why they had come, because—I remember the Rebbe said you could see groups, not—not anything without that. And...

50:17 Speaker 4 But there were a lot of groups.

50:19 Speaker 5 Yes, yes, group after group. One group stood on one side. The boys weren’t alone; they weren’t with the—with the—three families in a group. The women stood on one side, and the men on the other.

50:30 Speaker 4 In the room.

50:30 Speaker 5 In the room, yes. Then, when 5704 came, throughout 5704... Well, you understand, the boys [unclear]—when I went away to study, that [unclear] was already in my head. There was a German boy; they brought him in 5704. There was one boy [unclear], a class [unclear] boy who took the children. But, for Hashem’s sake, the boy—it wasn’t so simple [unclear]. A person didn’t stay much longer.

50:58 Speaker 4 But when were you there? You arrived after 5704, so was that when your friends left?

51:02 Speaker 5 Yes, yes, yes. For example, in 5702—I can start from the bottom—there was a class of forty children; there were twenty-two, and there were two eleventh-grade classes. Fourteen children came in 5702. It wasn’t like that anymore. When I arrived [unclear], I was like a visitor. I—I—I was [unclear] that I hadn’t pushed my way into it, into [unclear] the hospitality arrangements.

51:25 Speaker 4 Well, what about the boys?

51:26 Speaker 5 No, the boys slept in the guest accommodations. They were in apartments—I know where. Only now do people remember those guest accommodations. I already had brothers there, too, and there were homes and women who cooked. And when I arrived here as a visitor, I lived here. That was when I felt what it was like—the real taste, so to speak, not just the schedule [unclear]. I had everything, not just that. Yes, in 5704 there was a boy who came with me and slept in the same place as me throughout 5704. Nobody brought me; I came on my own that day. That’s how it was. And later, when the boys—when the seven younger boys [unclear]... There were boys here who ate all their meals in the yeshivah, immersed in the yeshivah, and slept in the yeshivah. And on Shabbos they would come looking neat. Look, that was how things were then, at a time when it wasn’t so close to the Rebbe’s time. I laughed about it; it was in the yeshivah. But I had—I had, as they say, a corner to escape to. Where could I escape, where could I go? Later I came here, as I said, [unclear].

52:21 Speaker 4 What pushed you to come somewhere else? What pushed you?

52:23 Speaker 5 Pushed me? It wasn’t that it was somewhere else. I was here like this—all my brothers were here. My brother Shmuelke came here when he was about twelve or thirteen. Dovid’l came here, but stayed only a short time. All my brothers lived here, and I wanted to be with my Rebbe. That was in [unclear], under [unclear]; Shmuel Greisman came. [Unclear] I had the strength to be with him, to be with him. I wanted to live in his [unclear]. The diaries came here; everything that happened came here. I wanted, I longed, to be in his [unclear]. [Unclear] studied. When a likut came out, they studied every likut with him. When a hanachah came, they studied the hanachah. I heard news from his [unclear], what was happening. I wanted to be here—I was seventeen. And my mother, for her part, said, “All the children have gone away. You’ll stay here. Someone has to stay.” And I said, “What have I done wrong?” I tried [unclear]. I did everything through little schemes, bit by bit; no one could [unclear] what I had done, and I left. We were happy; we were with the Rebbe. They ran away, or...? [Unclear] wrote to the Rebbe, [unclear]. I had already studied in Kfar Chabad for a few weeks when the Rebbe sent me back [unclear]. I spent a year in exile. And the family was already—was in...

53:35 Speaker 5 At twelve [unclear], I had permission from thirteen [unclear]. And afterward, once again, coming to another place—going through it all with the old misunderstanding, as they said. And I came here again. I stayed here from the end of 5705, from [unclear] 5705. My whole life was in his [unclear].

53:53 Speaker 4 All those years you were in his [unclear], yes.

53:56 Speaker 5 I went away once. I was a counselor at a camp in Detroit in 5716, and I spent four weeks on Merkos shlichus in Toronto in 5717.

54:08 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm. So how was it? You didn’t come for a short time—or was it short?

54:15 Speaker 5 No.

54:15 Speaker 4 No, just that one time.

54:15 Speaker 5 That was a problem. I arrived a year before my class, and I came to study at Chovevei Torah. But Mendelik came and told me, “If so, this Shabbos he can come to Tomchei Temimim. You can go study there. That’s a private place, Katz.” Then what happened? In private he tells me, “You’ve come here with all of them. Suddenly other boys from your year showed up. Because of that, you’re disrupting the whole system—the whole system,” he tells me. But then I stayed for one Shabbos. And as soon as I came here, when I went upstairs and started working on Sichos Kodesh... My friend, the shliach from Alaska, Yoske Greenberg, was working on Sichos Kodesh there together with Gershnaychem [?]. So I worked for eight weeks—

55:00 Speaker 4 What did the work on Sichos Kodesh involve? What—

55:03 Speaker 5 Sichos Kodesh was like this: In general, the Rebbe’s sichos weren’t made available to the public. They were working on—

55:07 Speaker 4 The sichos that hadn’t been smuggled out.

55:08 Speaker 5 The ones that hadn’t been smuggled out.

55:09 Speaker 4 The edited sichos.

55:09 Speaker 5 First of all, I was just a bochur. They were busy making a book and copying—

55:13 Speaker 4 But it was to help people have the sichos in an orderly way, Sichos Kodesh? What exactly was it?

55:19 Speaker 5 Sichos Kodesh—that was what they were making it for. There was a wealthy man there; I’ll come to that in a moment, how it worked, the wealthy man, the sicha. They went around collecting all the sichos they could find. They would take tape recorders with them and collect sichos from people. A bochur worked on it, took care of it. It was a publication. I think it was [unclear] for good sichos, and they distributed them for [unclear], Chanukah, and distributed some really good sichos. So when there was a farbrengen on Shabbos, it was twenty-four hours of the Rebbe. And... someone did for me... I was going to distribute what hadn’t been smuggled out. You see, this didn’t depend on the wealthy man at all. You know, from that they... made the rings. Sometimes it was in the Agudas office—yes, where the office of Klal Yisroel was, up there on the second floor, at Rabbi Shenderov’s [?]. Later they moved out of the office. There was a place on Lefferts, near Kingston, between Lefferts and Montgomery. There was a shop there with printing presses. We’d go there to print and to work. Sometimes I worked there for four hours. There was a book that took a hundred and fifty hours; people received a set. A set meant the texts—there was nothing like that.

56:31 Speaker 6 That was the payment.

56:32 Speaker 5 Yes, money went toward it. On many books, I worked an hour here, an hour there; it took time. I came and devoted four hours every day. Two weeks went by, and I’d already put in the hours. Then there wasn’t work again, preparing texts. Yes, you could say that. I did the work, and then Dovid Raskin gave me permission. He said it was all right for me to work here. So what was my routine?

56:53 Speaker 6 What was the work?

56:55 Speaker 5 The work wasn’t just one thing. Bringing tapes, collecting them, transcribing the tapes, printing, taking the pages to the bookbinder, typing from tapes, proofreading things—whatever was needed. There was work on every side of it here.

57:06 Speaker 6 They took old texts, and I would give—

57:08 Speaker 5 Passing things along, passing things along—it was very hard. And then there were other texts made word for word from the tape. At that point there weren’t yet texts you could simply take word for word from the tape. There were also notes people had provided, written down as they heard it. How could you check them? Yaakov [?] was more the... [unclear]. So, as I was saying, people worked on it; there were others, too. They did... they went to Dovid [unclear], and brought the sichos home from there. Today people send WhatsApps and emails. Back then it was all done with printed pages. Yes, they went to the bookbinder. The pages were still loose sheets. Then they collected them, you know, and made a book out of them. After the binding—yes, you took them to the bookbinder, got them back, and gave copies to people. That was everything that had to be done.

58:02 Speaker 6 So Dovid Raskin gave permission—he exempted you from the yeshivah schedule?

58:04 Speaker 5 He gave me permission regarding the schedule. Sometimes, near—

58:07 Speaker 6 Did he write to the Rebbe about you?

58:10 Speaker 5 No, I knew the Rebbe didn’t want to let me work on... I had already been here for some time. Here I said, “All right.” So I had the privilege of doing more of the work. Then, then there was—and they thought of bringing things like that. Here I said, there are exactly two study sessions: nigleh and Chassidus. And in the evening I could go, add a little more, work together with Peretz Levitch on the edited maamarim. There were more and more of them; we were involved in these things. He told me, “All right, when you come, Chassidus in the morning and the second class in the afternoon.” That time with the Rebbe, it just seemed—we had [unclear]. But go—

58:45 Speaker 6 But that was very unusual. The book took a great many hours then—

58:48 Speaker 5 Yes, indeed, yes, indeed. There was no fixed hour.

58:49 Speaker 6 I’m asking, here—

58:50 Speaker 5 There was a bochur who worked on [unclear]. He wasn’t the only bochur. Reb Dovid Raskin saw him and spoke to him. He said, “What am I doing?” “Sichos.” Here he got shas [?]. From where, then? Shas, yes.

59:01 Speaker 6 Yes.

59:02 Speaker 5 And he worked on Sichos Kodesh almost until the maamarim, until—it continued a little longer, but not all the way. And afterward he moved on to the maamarim, putting together the edited maamarim.

59:14 Speaker 6 I had a question before that.

59:15 Speaker 5 Yes.

59:15 Speaker 6 So we’re getting to the maamarim. Um, what was—did you stand at the farbrengen every week?

59:22 Speaker 5 What’s the question?

59:24 Speaker 6 And where was—

59:25 Speaker 5 What was it like? Before that, I lived it.

59:27 Speaker 6 Well, could it ever be like that again?

59:30 Speaker 5 A bochur’s life is [unclear]. Look. A normal Tishrei revolved entirely around the Rebbe. Take the first year, for example. The night before, we would go up to farbreng; there was a farbrengen. Then in the morning there was Selichos, then Shacharis. Here [unclear]. There was, there was [unclear] here. I tried to be there. Here I met [unclear], because they were only just coming back from there. And the, the, the [unclear] of the first year. Other bochurim stood here in front; here stood—everyone looked for a place. Then, that first year, there was a farbrengen, kiddush. I’m not talking about that. I experienced it: before that and after that, there was a farbrengen. Then we were even more [unclear]. Then, somewhere during Tishrei, there was a farbrengen with, with [unclear]. Then there was Yom Kippur. Then there was [unclear]. After Sukkos, every night. And then telling the stories, going out later to dance in the street all night and coming back the next day whenever we wanted. They would say, “We’re going to the Rebbe’s lulav.” It couldn’t be otherwise. A simple thing. For me, Tishrei was completely—as they say in 770, there wasn’t a night we slept in 770, [unclear]. Right through until after Simchas Torah. And then there was a bochur’s ordinary life in those years, when the Rebbe came every day to... You can’t imagine the [unclear]. I’m here. But we wanted to see the Rebbe. There was [unclear] down here, beneath the Rebbe, beneath [unclear], down here.

1:00:44 Speaker 5 We wanted to see the Rebbe—

1:00:44 Speaker 7 Seven o’clock [unclear].

1:00:45 Speaker 5 Seven fifteen [unclear]—

1:00:46 Speaker 7 [unclear].

1:00:47 Speaker 5 Coming from home. Then there was also Minchah, and there was also Maariv. The Rebbe’s arrival for Minchah, his departure after Minchah, his arrival. At Minchah I always stood, as one would expect, at [unclear]. But the other bochurim didn’t pay attention to that detail. Then there was a sicha for children. There was a sicha for [unclear]. There was a farbrengen on Shabbos, with the Rebbe speaking. I’m not talking about the middle of the week. Something might happen in the courtyard, something might happen [unclear], something might happen like that, perhaps at [unclear]. And every two or three days there was a farbrengen; that’s not what I’m talking about. And [unclear]. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Sometimes there would suddenly be a farbrengen. That was it—we lived in a different atmosphere, an entirely different one. And day-to-day life was also [unclear]. Another, another, another farbrengen. There was a farbrengen on Shabbos. Two hours, three hours, four hours. There were several Shabbosim when the Rebbe finished and it was already Motzoei Shabbos. Minchah and Maariv were together. We ate only the third Shabbos meal, and didn’t manage the whole meal before the farbrengen. Other householders went with their children, had the third meal, and came to the farbrengen later. They would go on Motzoei Shabbos, because on Shabbos they washed and ate fish and cholent and so on. As if Shabbos were an ordinary day. The review went like this—I wasn’t one of those who reviewed the Rebbe’s words; I’m speaking about everyone. I want to tell you: at night they would study Likkutei [unclear]. And in other weeks they would go, perhaps into the hall, to—

1:02:20 Speaker 5 To, uh, a study partner. They would meet to learn. They learned from seforim, learned on their own. Afterward they heard it in the seforim. They learned here and there. And they might miss, uh, Maariv with the Rebbe. I no longer remember exactly how that worked. I came in for the evening. It’s possible, uh, that they stayed later. Then during the week—because the Rebbe would call someone into his room, or perhaps go to the library. They would already go after davening. In winter, on Friday night, the Rebbe might leave at eight thirty. To go home. On a weekday they would go to daven, uh, at four thirty.

1:02:48 Speaker 8 No.

1:02:48 Speaker 5 A quarter to six, yes. The Rebbe would go to his room. He says the Rebbe was [unclear]. He says, “Listen, I know who was there. Whenever I looked, the door was closed.” The Rebbe says, “I came, and he always goes; the Rebbe has to go beforehand.”

1:03:01 Speaker 8 Were you in the hall, the small hall?

1:03:02 Speaker 5 We learned there in the small hall; we sat in the hall. Then, at eight, he said to go daven. We would stand there to watch, you know. Perhaps we’d be standing there and see the Rebbe arrive. One Shabbos, the Rebbe’s Shacharis was at nine thirty. In winter. Very, very, very late. [unclear]. At my brothers’ homes, at my brothers’ homes, they ate at normal times. Before six, seven. Imagine coming in at nine thirty—I’ll never forget it. That was the first place, two or three places, when the Rebbe, uh, when the Rebbe still went to the library. On Thursday nights, the only brother whose home we would go to was my brother Yossi, because he knew—the meal would be very, very late. Of course, he would only go at his usual time on Thursday night. [unclear]. There was a Shabbos table. [unclear] fish and soup, and, you know, nothing. Going to the yeshivah, say, for weeks. [unclear]. Yes, that sort of expression. But everyone was focused on the Rebbe. [unclear]. [unclear]. [unclear]. What is [unclear]? Maybe shluchim would arrive there. [unclear]. [unclear]. [unclear]. [unclear]. Even today it’s [unclear] to farbreng. They would start

1:04:24 Speaker 5 to farbreng. There would be another farbrengen. Each time there was a different guest. And from the people who went, once you heard, familiar faces would arrive. What had happened in yechidus. Where they talked about avodah with the Rebbe, how to go about one’s avodah. There were, there were wonderful farbrengens. [unclear]. That was the place where things moved on from there. [unclear]. [unclear]. [unclear]. And nothing was lacking; everything kept going. Everything revolved around the Rebbe, as you say. [unclear]. Every Sunday there was a whole [unclear]. Who was he? Who had arrived? And then the Rebbe said, “They turned the cameras around so quickly that they got in.” Afterward, there too, they [unclear] with the householders, with the wealthy donors, until they went in. Anyone who wanted to help was there. I helped with that, with getting myself in.

1:05:15 Speaker 9 Yechidus for the wealthy donors.

1:05:16 Speaker 5 Yechidus for the wealthy donors. I helped and pulled things along with the bank. He came in again with a piece. That was a general yechidus. Afterward they started in the women’s section, or [unclear] for women. [unclear]. That was how things were arranged. It lasted until [unclear]. Then came the difficult period, when people would call the department, and the Rebbe was very, very displeased about it. The Rebbe spoke about it at farbrengens. With mesirus nefesh, they got through it. Everything was—

1:05:45 Speaker 9 A difficult period.

1:05:47 Speaker 5 Difficult. That period lasted all year, until [unclear], going out in the cold in the morning, and [unclear]. You can understand that: he traveled to [unclear] and didn’t speak a single word of English either. Okay? [unclear]. I didn’t have the difficult words, as they say. I simply didn’t understand anything. Actually, it makes me laugh—how Reb Mendel used to put it when he told the story: was it “letivusa ihu” or “letivusa”?

1:06:09 Speaker 9 He used to ask.

1:06:09 Speaker 5 Yes, he used to ask. I too was at the gathering a lot, [unclear]. But we went. We’re here; we’ve already arrived; we’re here. It was a very tense period. Chanukah comes to mind. The Rebbe came every night for the lighting of the candles. One night he came to light the Chanukah candles; beforehand there had already been a small [unclear]. He arrived late. And, well, before that, I think, [unclear]. [unclear]. [unclear]. The father of one of the students, who was here with a group. He came every day for the lighting at night. It began to go more quickly. I think it’s written—

1:06:44 Speaker 9 But the Rebbe himself [unclear].

1:06:45 Speaker 5 Yes, every day. It was a very, very tense period. A very tense period. And afterward there was [unclear] involving lives. Uh, 27 Adar or [unclear]. Two [unclear]—

1:06:56 Speaker 9 Did it start on 27 Adar?

1:06:58 Speaker 5 It started on 27 Adar. 27 Adar was the first time the Rebbe [unclear].

1:07:01 Speaker 9 On Shabbos?

1:07:02 Speaker 5 Shabbos, uh, [unclear]. That was 27 Adar, the first time. 27 Adar or [unclear].

1:07:07 Speaker 9 27 Adar or [unclear]. But the Rebbe himself came to... to davening.

1:07:11 Speaker 5 But he continued doing that until Pesach. Even on Purim there was the Megillah; all of that had been before.

1:07:16 Speaker 9 Did the Rebbe read the Megillah?

1:07:18 Speaker 5 There were letters, there were various matters, there was Shabbos, the grooms, the grooms’ fathers, the grooms’ grandfathers. Everything was completely ordinary. The whole thing was ordinary.

1:07:25 Speaker 9 And how did you get through that period, with the Rebbe’s health? What was it like then?

1:07:30 Speaker 5 Well, it was... But all right, what could you do? We understood. It was such a strange period, a strange period. On the one hand, there was what had happened; on the other hand, the Rebbe came to the minyan every day. And every night he would leave. We saw the Rebbe going to Minchah-Maariv. It wasn’t permitted; the Rebbe was secluded. That’s how it went—

1:07:50 Speaker 9 The Rebbe was secluded then?

1:07:51 Speaker 5 Secluded. The farbrengens had already [unclear], but still, with all the upheaval. It was that kind of period, a strange period. On the one hand, the public [unclear]. The Rebbe wasn’t directly before the public, and all the— On the other hand, he came out to the public. And that began right after Pesach. What had already [unclear]—he started distributing dollars. That began—

1:08:10 Speaker 9 During that period.

1:08:11 Speaker 5 Right after Pesach.

1:08:12 Speaker 9 Right after Pesach.

1:08:12 Speaker 5 After Pesach he started distributing dollars. The first time, he gave out dollars in Shvat. The Rebbe distributed them and held a farbrengen the night before. Then he gave out dollars again in Nissan, before Pesach, on Erev Shabbos. He distributed them. And after Pesach, now the Sunday dollars depended on him. Yes. But at first it lasted ten minutes, five minutes, eight minutes, thirteen minutes. Later it grew. When another person came and asked for things, matters of life and perhaps death—what was permitted? They simply let it happen. We felt that the Rebbe specifically wanted this to be the time.

1:08:42 Speaker 9 The Rebbe started the whole thing in—

1:08:43 Speaker 5 The Rebbe started the whole thing. I’m putting this in my own words, not the Rebbe’s words. I can’t really tell the story properly. Until 5738 there was yechidus. In 5738, that was already a period of yechidus. Then it continued, with yechidus until [unclear]. Then another shliach, and it went [unclear]. He had already been living there before, [unclear] Shabbos. And then people studied the Rebbe’s teachings. There was a sicha with the Rebbe. When I say “one after another,” I mean [unclear], the speaker says. He says at a farbrengen, at [unclear], “No, that can’t be the Rebbe,” when the Rebbe comes in. There was [unclear] about the shliach, uh, whatever wasn’t filled, if so [unclear]. We can say to the Rebbe, uh, “This is so-and-so.” But—

1:09:25 Speaker 9 From a sicha.

1:09:26 Speaker 5 From a sicha, no, but the Rebbe—he comes in the morning. It wasn’t that only young people went; someone came with children. He came from... I don’t know, “I’m from Florida,” came with the children for [unclear]. What is [unclear]? He comes [unclear], he holds a farbrengen with everyone. Yes, there’s the Rebbe; the child says l’chaim. He [unclear], the Rebbe goes to Minchah, and [unclear]. But a sicha. It would be a few months, seven—seven years. And the Rebbe—where would he go? Another city comes in, at fifteen minutes past he goes to another yechidus, at seventeen minutes past to another yechidus. At dollars, two thousand people could pass by the Rebbe. Each one gets his half-minute, his minute, his ten seconds, and goes on from the Rebbe. The Rebbe was distancing himself from the public? Just the opposite. If so, now it depends on speaking to [unclear] about [unclear]. But a person comes to ask [unclear]; it depends. The Rebbe created this. I believe it took mesirus nefesh; [unclear] technically he had [unclear]. Because technically the Rebbe could say, “I’m going to establish an orderly system now.” Technically, technically, those are plans. But that isn’t true. The distribution of—

1:10:26 Speaker 9 It happened every Sunday, literally.

1:10:28 Speaker 5 The distribution of dollars was here, [unclear].

1:10:30 Speaker 9 And did a bochur start going like that?

1:10:33 Speaker 5 I’m telling you honestly: I went on my birthday, when I needed to receive something. One time I was [unclear] or had to take the long route. To go. The Rebbe stood there for an extraordinary length of time. Bochurim went in, I’m saying, but most... A bochur going all that long way—I can count the times on one hand.

1:10:53 Speaker 9 Yes.

1:10:54 Speaker 5 Almost all the others, the other friends, had an entirely chassidic outlook. That was how I lived, yes.

1:11:01 Speaker 9 Ah, that was the whole thing. Our whole lives revolved around the Rebbe, around that. That was everything.

1:11:06 Speaker 5 Your world revolved around what was happening: the Rebbe was coming, where the Rebbe was going, what it had been like. When I was once at yechidus at night, he came; a bochur once came. When someone came after, thank G-d, years—what happened, what was it like? We lived—our lives truly revolved around it, twenty-four seven.

1:11:22 Speaker 9 You were a bochur. I had...—

1:11:24 Speaker 5 I still had 770 as a home.

1:11:25 Speaker 9 Was that until 27 Adar?

1:11:26 Speaker 5 Until 27 Adar. Yes.

1:11:30 Speaker 9 Uh, when you were a bochur, on a Thursday night going into Friday, where was my living room? What was it like?

1:11:39 Speaker 5 That’s another subject. If we want to talk about something—what I was saying here about how it was—we lived around 770. Apart from the main point, which was that the farbrengen took place on Shabbos. True, everything revolved around 770: where the Rebbe came and where the Rebbe went. Over the years, that whole routine changed; that was [unclear] with the Rebbe.

1:12:05 Speaker 9 Ah, that was still in the month of Av.

1:12:06 Speaker 5 After the month of Av. Until then, perhaps there was a general rule: the Rebbe would leave every night and come back every morning. It could be Simchas Torah, when the Rebbe would leave at three or four in the morning, or it could be a winter day, when people went to daven and the Rebbe would go home at five-thirty. It could be summer, when the Rebbe would leave at twenty past [unclear], go to another farbrengen, to another yechidus. When there was yechidus, it was clear. All right, that was how it was. But the Rebbe always left every day and came back every morning. 15 Menachem Av—that happened in the month of Av. That was the first week the Rebbe was at home, during shivah. After that, the Rebbe was at home [unclear]. The Rebbe was at home for many Shabbosos too. For three Shabbosos, the Rebbe was at home. But on the first Shabbos after the shivah, the Rebbe came to 770 on Thursday night. The Rebbe came to 770; the others came afterward. So Levi Liberow approached me. I think we had to go to Shmulik Katz. People were talking that the Rebbe was staying overnight at 770 by himself. That’s what we understood afterward. Elimelech would leave after Maariv. The clock already showed one hour after Maariv, then two hours after Maariv. At eight or nine at night, 770 was empty. Someone might still be walking around until twelve, but at that hour, I knew people needed to be around. Anyway—

1:13:34 Speaker 5 At night, normal people go to sleep. The bochurim went to sleep. They were exhausted after a fifteen-hour day. They knew they had to come in the morning and be awake. You couldn’t go to sleep at two or three in the morning; otherwise you wouldn’t be able to get up. A normal chassidisher bochur would be there for Maftir, and certainly for Shacharis. If it was Shabbos, on Friday night he would be there for Tehillim. This one fell asleep, that one was here; at [unclear] they thought someone would be there—but 770 was empty. Empty, and I mean empty, empty, empty. [unclear]. And the Rebbe was sitting alone in his room. First of all, there was the guarding—simply guarding a holy place, out of respect. Even if only one person [unclear], that mattered. Second, the Rebbe was sitting alone. If the Rebbe wanted to [unclear] in the middle of the night, someone needed to [unclear]. [unclear]. For those two Shabbosos, that’s how it became. So, as they said, from [unclear]. As far as I know, this is what happened: Shmulik Katz from [unclear] would sit there from two-thirty until morning. Yoske Greenberg and I sat there from [unclear] an hour after Maariv. We found a quicker way to cover it until three or two-thirty, when Shmulik arrived. On the first Shabbos, the very first Shabbos, there was no arrangement at all.

1:14:56 Speaker 10 That was right from the first Shabbos.

1:14:58 Speaker 5 Right from the first Shabbos.

1:14:59 Speaker 10 Uh-huh.

1:15:00 Speaker 5 On Shabbos I sat, as though I were sitting in Gan Eden, in—uh, Gan Eden HaElyon. At the table in Gan Eden HaElyon. And you ask—the table in Gan Eden HaElyon was there, in Gan Eden HaElyon.

1:15:11 Speaker 10 Ah, was there always a table there?

1:15:12 Speaker 5 There was a table there, yes. And for yechidus, well, what the Rebbe [would do].

1:15:14 Speaker 10 With the...

1:15:15 Speaker 5 Yes, all right, [unclear], the table was there. Later they began using the table every night, to talk with the people who came for sichos, [unclear]. So the table stood by the wall, in the corner here—

1:15:28 Speaker 10 Next to the stairs.

1:15:28 Speaker 5 In the corner here. Yes, by the stairs, yes. Here was the wall of the Rebbe’s room, and here was the Rebbe’s— I sat beside it, and Yoske sat opposite me. The door was here. I could see the door; Yoske could see it. On the first Shabbos, after the third meal, when the Rebbe came to [unclear], we were sitting there. As it was, it was maybe, maybe—

1:15:52 Speaker 10 Presumably. There were other people in the house.

1:15:55 Speaker 5 In the house, in the house itself, when the Rebbe was at home, our friend Sholom Ber was right there, [unclear].

1:15:59 Speaker 10 Yes, that’s what I mean too.

1:15:59 Speaker 5 Outside sat Berke Yunik. His brother came too; he sat playing cards in the house there, which was near the Rebbe’s house. We’re talking about the arrangements—who sat on Wednesday—and the Rebbe returned for Shabbos. In practice, I sat there with Yoske Greenberg; I sat there afterward. And we thought, can I still speak today? Because it’s fairly quiet on Shabbos. You know how it goes: the Rebbe turns pages a lot. Yes, but we can ask Leibele, Leib Groner, because he wants to be where the secretary is. Go to him; he doesn’t want to sit on the back street. They were... The door is open, and you can move along the bench here. After all, that’s dangerous. We saw what to do. Every page gets turned. I can still speak today. What did we discuss? In practice, that night, here, about twenty minutes after—

1:16:49 Speaker 11 That’s from the first light until night, night—

1:16:51 Speaker 5 Yes, twenty minutes later, when... when he went with the key and opened up by the Rebbe’s house. We jumped over to the secretary. The Rebbe put his head out. The Rebbe had his glasses down here, without a hat. He got dressed quickly, got dressed quickly again. And we were left speechless—should we ask, “Rebbe, do you want this?” And the secretary knocked on the door. So I knocked hard, and the door opened. It didn’t take long. The secretary knocked again. For the first minute or two, I didn’t either—not when he ran, when he went to the second one, actually. Afterward, though, what did we do? First, the Rebbe wanted it. Well, I can’t—I can go knock on the door. When he ate [unclear], that was when the Rebbe first understood—no, the Rebbe was going without a hat. When they saw from a distance, he would open the door from here with the... with his Shabbos clothes. But when he stood looking out at the street, with his regular glasses here, his eyes looked three times bigger than usual; there were a few movements of his hand. And he waited a few minutes before going. So that’s how it was. At ten to two, that same night, the Rebbe opened the door again, with his glasses, and looked out and gestured with his hand. He only put his head out, got dressed quickly, and opened the door wider. In the morning, how does Bobraner put it, what happened? He says, “Well, what do you want?” He says, “What’s this? What—

1:18:25 Speaker 5 Oh, we can’t sit here.” I think, just to say—what, he stands there for less time and does the same thing again. I, I stayed. “We can’t sit there; we’re already involved in this. And secondly, I want to know—

1:18:36 Speaker 12 What are you doing here at all—

1:18:36 Speaker 5 “Oh, what am I doing here? That’s what I’m asking; after all, I don’t know what.” Yes, so he comes here and says, “I don’t know at all. The Rebbe wanted to see what it’s like inside here.” On the one hand, he told the Rebbe, “Two bochurim are sitting here.” So the Rebbe took that into account. He said, “What will happen? There are two bochurim sitting here all the time.” The Rebbe says, “They want to look in here and see what it’s like inside.” And the next time, the Rebbe didn’t notice and opened the door. It had to be every four—

1:18:58 Speaker 12 All those years.

1:18:59 Speaker 5 Except when it was necessary. No, he said he should go look, and there wouldn’t be... Ah, from here my Rebbe sat, where the secretary was. They put some kind of tea samovar there on the little table. You know, because I did—after all, we sat where this stands here—

1:19:15 Speaker 12 At your place.

1:19:16 Speaker 5 At our place. Our place.

1:19:17 Speaker 12 Our place, okay.

1:19:18 Speaker 5 We sat and sat there. They see it’s Shabbos; I can sit until six-thirty. But that was until six-thirty. But that was until two-thirty. They sit there. And we sat there—how nice—until two or three in the morning. And afterward the Rebbe went to Leib’s room. Ah, there, there they go when it’s open; they go, they go that day, you know. They go to open the door. So we don’t stand there with our heads turned toward the Rebbe. We—the Rebbe could, after all... We had to go; the Rebbe had to get up and wash his hands. And now up here he walks around a little, then again he goes, he goes and lies down on the bed. You see, they didn’t come up like that. They saw, you know, some part of it. Um, a chossid went to bring that fellow over.

1:20:05 Speaker 12 Shmuel Katz.

1:20:05 Speaker 5 Shmuel Katz. And he says, “He asked—I thought they were coming—so Zusha Greenberg came in his place.” Afterward the chossid went—ah, Yoske—they came to Eliyahu Kaplan. There was a rota there, at... ah, ah, after the candle-lighting for Maariv. The bochurim asked. Each one at his wedding, and then another two would come. I stayed until the end, because I remained on the bench until the end. Afterward, the two of us sat together. I asked for, and took, the early-morning shift. I would come at two or a quarter to two—once, at a quarter to. Afterward it worked out for me: I went and stayed until morning. In the morning I would leave, Leibel would come, he would do an hour, a quarter of the night, and I would go to sleep. I lost out afterward for a few years, because I was worse off at farbrengens. Can you stay awake all night and then farbreng properly? A person just can’t. And, um, at the farbrengen I would take—take—take part until after seven.

1:20:54 Speaker 12 Nasi.

1:20:54 Speaker 5 Yes, because I sat there at night, and I didn’t have nearly enough time to sleep because of the farbrengen. And I slept enough after the farbrengen; first I would go to the Shabbos meal. And even though on Shabbos we go to sleep, I—I—I’m only human. I can sleep here, after all. And I would sleep all week.

1:21:08 Speaker 12 Who else woke you up?

1:21:08 Speaker 5 Who woke me up? My brother Shmulik called me.

1:21:11 Speaker 12 Uh-huh.

1:21:12 Speaker 5 It was Shabbos. He was shouting into the answering machine, “Hey, Bob, hey, Bob,” he said. “At four in the morning, one time—hey, Bob—the Rebbe is farbrenging.” “How, how can I come?” You know, really. He says, “I—I’m telling you, go to the farbrengen. Just wait for me.” He gave me a place to go. Ah, at the time I lived near New York Avenue, Crown and New York. Motel Rifkin was in our house there; he gave the address. I ran to New York Avenue. I still made it to the Shabbos meal. The Rebbe himself, after all, slept—he was human. I missed all that time; I was sitting there with them. I can picture their faces. I sat there. Um, there was one time on Chol Hamoed Sukkos. Chol Hamoed Sukkos was on a Wednesday. The Rebbe was there on Wednesday for the Shabbos meal. Just for example, ah, the table [unclear]. The Rebbe was there on Wednesday. On Shabbos the Rebbe caught it. On Wednesday, ah, on Wednesday, on Wednesday the Rebbe caught it. On Wednesday Berke Yunik sat alone.

1:22:10 Speaker 12 In 770?

1:22:10 Speaker 5 Yes.

1:22:11 Speaker 12 Well, no.

1:22:11 Speaker 5 Where are we? At the house. He always sat here. He would sit there—if the Rebbe needed something in the middle of the night, he would always lie there. Another thing: new things would come to him during the night. Something nice, an incident [unclear]. I put a note there in the middle of the night, because I had put the note there. The table that stood in the corner was next to the door.

1:22:29 Speaker 12 An incident—

1:22:30 Speaker 5 Half a door, half a door.

1:22:30 Speaker 12 It was right next to the door.

1:22:31 Speaker 5 Yes, the door was always open. The Rebbe had to turn around and go around it. It wasn’t far.

1:22:35 Speaker 12 Well, what?

1:22:36 Speaker 5 When the Rebbe needed to turn out of the room, there was a table there. Every time, every time—throughout Pesach there was a table there. The Rebbe would turn, ah, put things down, and the Rebbe would take things. You couldn’t see him; you could only see his hand, you know, passing something over. That’s how he would pass out the edited sichos and the edited maamarim. He would pass them out in the middle of the night—two in the morning, four hours, whatever it was; one in the morning, ten at night.

1:22:56 Speaker 12 So whenever the Rebbe put something down, the Rebbe would say to take it, something like that.

1:22:59 Speaker 5 There was something. That’s how it was there. Or you could put something down. The Rebbe might need to come to the door every ten minutes, or he might come to the door two hours later.

1:23:06 Speaker 12 Once he had an emergency.

1:23:08 Speaker 5 They put it on the table, on the table.

1:23:10 Speaker 12 They knew they could go straight there.

1:23:13 Speaker 5 It wasn’t on weekdays; they called him Berke Yunik [?], that was how the name was written. Leibel didn’t want other people sitting there in the middle of the night, because, ah, it wouldn’t be [good]—they would be handling the Rebbe’s things, and that was a private matter. Berke didn’t sit there on Chol Hamoed Pesach or Chol Hamoed Sukkos. That was his vacation.

1:23:30 Speaker 12 Mm-hmm.

1:23:31 Speaker 5 So the first year, on Chol Hamoed, we—we took turns. Each time, one of us would go dance. So, ah, for example, one night of Chol Hamoed Sukkos, Menachem Eizlish was sitting by the table. The Rebbe went out to the sukkah, his own sukkah. Yes, we took turns. Before that, we changed the lock on the Rebbe’s room. The Rebbe wanted the key to the old lock, because how would he get into the room—

1:23:54 Speaker 12 The Rebbe goes out to the sukkah—

1:23:55 Speaker 5 To the sukkah, closes the door.

1:23:57 Speaker 12 He goes back—

1:23:58 Speaker 5 He goes in, but they can’t find any key. It’s not working. The Rebbe goes into Leibel’s room there, and they start looking through the drawers. He looks there. There’s no key anywhere in the Rebbe’s room. The Rebbe calls a bochur, Menachem Eizlish.

1:24:11 Speaker 12 What? Yes.

1:24:15 Speaker 5 He says, “You can surely find Rabbi Groner. He’s farbrenging with Nochum in the street right now.” He goes; he’s farbrenging. Farbrenging? In Yiddish, farbrenging means, uh, as I said, in English—no, he’s farbrenging—

1:24:28 Speaker 12 “Hanging out.”

1:24:29 Speaker 5 Uh. He says, “No, he’s farbrenging. Farbrenging. The Rebbe is farbrenging with the crowd in the street.” I was terribly afraid for him; some Russian fellow was running around there. He also ran over to see me. So I called Leiby Lieber. “Where are you, Leiby?” He says, “Come to me.” The whole crowd was in shul. They ran over from there, from Leibel’s house. Everyone came—Leiby Lieber with Chanina, with Menachem. Everyone woke up. All at once the Rebbe says to Leibel, “He wants to get into the room. He can’t get in.” So, the key. Leibel opened the door. Then he closes the door and goes into the room. We were still sitting there. It was as though he wanted to lie down in bed for a while. I wasn’t there, only before everyone else. I hadn’t been there for two weeks. I went after [unclear]. Fogelman with [unclear]—that’s Mendel Fogelman—went to [unclear]. Leibel didn’t want the [unclear] to sit there. He wanted me to sit there. It wasn’t allowed. I moved the things to the sukkah the next morning. Otherwise, things outside for him, things inside for him. He says, “You sit.” I sat there that night. They hadn’t notified anyone. [unclear] said it was an emergency. There really was a note. One time, um, I don’t remember which day of Chol Hamoed it was, I was sitting there. It was exactly six-thirty when the Rebbe called.

1:25:49 Speaker 12 In Leibel’s office.

1:25:50 Speaker 5 Yes, I... with all the coming and going, you know. What do I do? I’m holding Leibel’s phone. He’s busy. He has a second phone; it had all his numbers. I’m holding the second phone. Um, [unclear]. I call, I call the Rebbe again. I know he’s there. [unclear] calls Binyamin. He’d been there for a hundred and twenty seconds. That’s the story. He came, I’m telling you, with his pants in his hand. He’d just—you know, in the morning, when he falls asleep, by the time he actually gets to sleep—yes, an older man. He runs. What am I supposed to do? I know the Rebbe has already called for the third time. So I knock on the door. The Rebbe doesn’t open. I was sitting in Leibel’s office, waiting. Then he comes back, knocks, and the Rebbe opens the door. He comes out with the lulav, of course.

1:26:41 Speaker 14 He comes out of the adjoining room with the lulav.

1:26:42 Speaker 5 With the lulav, and goes in. I’m walking along; he has the [unclear]. He looks at his watch; Leibel has arrived. I ask him, “How was the night?” And he says, “What happened?” I think, so that I’ll know—I tell you what happened. He told me he’d been on the phone with [unclear]. His father at home gave him [unclear]. It occurred to him that the phone was there. [unclear], [unclear]. They go to speak to Binyamin. Eventually they actually ask what happened. With that, uh, when he came back, I went out, you know, downstairs. And I immediately went back to the [unclear]. Binyamin asks if he can find out where he was. I say, “They called me; I can tell you.” It was quite a story. He didn’t, uh, tell me—what? This is how I saw it: I knock on the door. The Rebbe doesn’t open. Should I leave? Since they told me he’d called three times, I’m in the office and I call, uh, so-and-so, so-and-so’s phone, the—

1:27:29 Speaker 14 The [unclear]. I don’t know any more.

1:27:30 Speaker 5 That’s the phone. The Rebbe picked it up. He says, “It’s Binyamin,” right to the Rebbe. “Oh, it’s you? I thought it was the bochur from Sea Gate [?], so I didn’t want to open yet.” He tells me the Rebbe is sitting in an upholstered armchair. He comes in wearing an undershirt, you know? That’s how he came in and told the Rebbe he wanted to go to sleep. And he sees that the hadassim aren’t there—the two hadassim were supposed to be ready by the time the public came, after the set time. The time was twenty to seven. You understand, the Rebbe is going to sleep and there are only ten minutes left. He should go wake Dovid Raskin. Reb Binyamin runs in, and Dovid Raskin is woken up. Dovid Raskin runs to the mikveh. Then they go and buy hadassim. By eight, everything is in order; the lulav is ready.

1:28:08 Speaker 14 So the Rebbe, that night, at the time of taking the lulav, told the public that this was such a precious time—

1:28:12 Speaker 5 No, eight, after—after eight, they both had it.

1:28:14 Speaker 14 Yes.

1:28:14 Speaker 5 That was [unclear], you know.

1:28:16 Speaker 14 Meaning that you were there again, and when he called, he called right away—

1:28:19 Speaker 5 Of course! You heard a knock at the door—what? What? That couldn’t be.

1:28:23 Speaker 14 The Rebbe didn’t want that either?

1:28:25 Speaker 5 Yes, I think so. He didn’t open.

1:28:28 Speaker 14 Yes.

1:28:30 Speaker 5 Yes. Then there was another time, the first night of Pesach 5751. He was sitting after Pesach in the “kinder-shul.” It came right around midnight. I also can’t [unclear] remember him before midnight, but [unclear]. I thought—

1:28:48 Speaker 14 Always, unfortunately, right?

1:28:49 Speaker 5 I’m sitting there. We hold the Seder later.

1:28:52 Speaker 14 All those years with the [unclear]?

1:28:53 Speaker 5 [unclear] I wasn’t there. But on Pesach I traveled.

1:28:56 Speaker 14 Mm-hmm.

1:28:56 Speaker 5 On Pesach night I went to England. My parents are in England, so I went there. I went to sleep later, of course.

1:29:01 Speaker 14 In 5751?

1:29:03 Speaker 5 So, uh, we’re going back to that Pesach during the week at the Rebbe’s. It was, uh, the first Yom Tov, the first night. As usual, when you knew when—say, you’d work it out—the Rebbe would come out to give a blessing for the Seder.

1:29:17 Speaker 14 Yes, that’s before Shehecheyanu.

1:29:18 Speaker 5 Before Shehecheyanu. The family comes to the house; they come after the [unclear]. They just arrive. You can sit there the whole time; you have to [unclear] Shehecheyanu. Then you also have to wait and open the door. [unclear]. It has nothing to do with you. And the arrangement was that when the Rebbe reached karpas, he took out what was left in the [unclear]. They were on the table; we took them out. We took them out. And I see how he carries on, how the Seder continues, how things are being taken more quickly. [unclear]. The Rebbe made the charoses. The Rebbe did that, the little piece from—from the cup, with the wine, because the cup was dirty. I’m going back to tell you about that one time. [unclear] there—

1:30:03 Speaker 14 Exactly.

1:30:03 Speaker 5 ...during the meal, the Rebbe sent the cup to be washed. That happened once with Berel Lipsker [?].

1:30:07 Speaker 14 Exactly.

1:30:07 Speaker 5 Yes? And he—you also go with the [unclear]—the Rebbe takes out the cup. I simply didn’t know what I was supposed to do. Exactly. When I took the cup, I didn’t see the Rebbe at all; there was no conversation. I looked this way and that, took it over to the sink and washed it. While I was washing it, he opened the door. He hadn’t come out; it all happened so quickly. Then he made the blessing over the cup. I saw how he did something else before the farbrengen. The cup was upside down with a napkin over it. That’s how the Rebbe carried it inside. We ate—it’s too long to tell—I didn’t see. Then I see it’s over. Right away I see the Rebbe is already coming out. But he opened the doors one after another; there was a hook there that you could lock them with. He closed all the doors, a whole row of locks, locked all the doors. And I’m already standing—

1:30:51 Speaker 14 He locked the door.

1:30:52 Speaker 5 Yes, locked it. Say I was standing there. And I’m standing there again, really embarrassed—what should I do? Suddenly the Rebbe opens the door and looks out. It was like [unclear]. Right there. In all my years, the Rebbe had never moved away like that.

1:31:08 Speaker 14 What, where to?

1:31:09 Speaker 5 I went down to where the turn was, where the Rebbe was. Before [unclear], it used to be at the front. And there really was a chossid downstairs that night, all the way downstairs. So I asked myself, “Where does the Rebbe want to go?” The Rebbe says, “Huh?” I was standing right here; there was something here obstructing the Rebbe. I say, “There isn’t—there isn’t a piece on the stairs here.” The Rebbe moved toward the door, to close his door a little. I ran out, opened the lock and went down through the door.

1:31:37 Speaker 14 Ah, the entrance door was locked.

1:31:40 Speaker 5 Wait, it was locked. What could I do? They were standing there, I don’t know, about a hundred [unclear] in front of me. I went up to the door and waited.

1:31:48 Speaker 14 I ran immediately to open it.

1:31:49 Speaker 5 When the Rebbe moved, I ran, opened it and went down through the door. I stood by a window and watched. The Rebbe moved with large sheets of paper. It was Shabbos; there used to be a light. At that hour of the night there was no light at all.

1:32:00 Speaker 14 For him it was supposed to be Shabbos—it was Shabbos?

1:32:01 Speaker 5 Yes.

1:32:02 Speaker 14 With the stairs, with the—with the sheet of paper.

1:32:04 Speaker 5 Yes, what else? You know, he moved a little and looked like this, you know, toward the light over there, from those people, you know, very, very large.

1:32:19 Speaker 14 Did the Rebbe ever say the Haggadah to you?

1:32:22 Speaker 5 No.

1:32:23 Speaker 14 Never?

1:32:24 Speaker 5 No. There was another time on Sukkos. Talking and all that with him until... It was always that way with him until [unclear]. One night, at a quarter to four in the morning, the Rebbe opened the door of his room. I immediately understood what was going on, what concerned him. The sukkah was at Leibel’s, on Leibel’s Street [?].

1:32:50 Speaker 14 In his room?

1:32:50 Speaker 5 In his room.

1:32:51 Speaker 14 On the roof?

1:32:51 Speaker 5 On the roof.

1:32:52 Speaker 14 What was he doing there?

1:32:53 Speaker 5 Yes, what he did to arrange it, you know, was a whole undertaking. No, it wasn’t for Shabbos; there was an entire system. It took a lot of ingenuity, a whole arrangement for the roof, very, very carefully organized. And toward evening, toward evening, it rained, you know; that’s how it was. And the Rebbe opened the door of his room. He left the door open but didn’t come out. I went over there and heard a noise.

1:33:19 Speaker 14 That happened—

1:33:20 Speaker 5 In the morning, at a quarter to four in the morning.

1:33:22 Speaker 14 No, was that the first time the Rebbe used the sukkah?

1:33:24 Speaker 5 No, toward evening... He had gone there in the morning; that would only have been the first time. No, it happened at that hour.

1:33:28 Speaker 14 So everything was new—a new sukkah, a new arrangement.

1:33:30 Speaker 5 Yes, a new arrangement. And... you should know, he knew it covered the roof; you could see only a little of it from there. I opened the door. It was the kind of door that scraped as it moved, you know, not one that opened easily. I opened it and immediately ran down the stairs, and the Rebbe came out. At the bottom of the stairs there was a little nook by the entrance, a sort of recess. I hid there, you know. The Rebbe walked out of the room holding a book; I think it was a book. And he came to the sukkah—ah, here’s the sukkah. I had seen him once before, you know. I was hiding, but I saw that he was looking for [unclear]. The Rebbe did this, you know, for a while. When he started walking toward the sukkah, I ran upstairs and quickly closed the door. The Rebbe did try it; he knocked, and then closed the door.

1:34:18 Speaker 14 The sukkah.

1:34:19 Speaker 5 The Rebbe said, about fifty minutes. But the Rebbe came out. I was standing there, and the Rebbe came out and went into the room. There were no bochurim there, no young bochurim at all. He walked slowly. And once, on one of the nights, he went out to the sukkah. It was raining very hard there [unclear]. Can you imagine? The Rebbe entered the sukkah; there still wasn’t [unclear] in the sukkah. It was simply [unclear]. He sat in the sukkah for about forty-five minutes.

1:34:45 Speaker 14 In the office then?

1:34:46 Speaker 5 Yes. When the Rebbe came out, rain was already falling right into the sukkah. It rained and rained and rained. You couldn’t stop the rain then. You couldn’t say “Adon Olam.” The... the things were soaked, saturated with water. That was the protection they had there.

1:35:06 Speaker 14 And the Rebbe—once, you said, on one of the Shabbosim, it was... Did the Rebbe eat there? Did the Rebbe ever eat there?

1:35:13 Speaker 5 I don’t know. The lulav. No, no. You know, on a winter night in 5750, 5751, and 5752, the Rebbe didn’t usually sleep. The Rebbe would go up to his room at twenty past four, fifty minutes after Maariv. He would stay in the room until ten in the morning. Do you know what that means? Work out what that means. It means he sat in that room for sixteen, seventeen hours—in such a small room, the little room you see there. There was a bed there, and another table by itself. That was how it was... Every night, night after night, the Rebbe would sit there.

1:35:57 Speaker 14 And did the Rebbe eat there—what, have tea?

1:36:00 Speaker 5 He had a thermos in the room.

1:36:01 Speaker 14 In the room?

1:36:02 Speaker 5 Yes.

1:36:04 Speaker 14 Who brought it there, uh—

1:36:05 Speaker 5 In the room? On which night?

1:36:06 Speaker 14 No, who brought it in on Shabbos and—

1:36:08 Speaker 5 Sholom Ber Ginsburg did that.

1:36:10 Speaker 14 No, no, I mean at night.

1:36:11 Speaker 5 No, no, no. On Pesach the Rebbe’s custom was... the older man began the Seder later than we did, and Sholom Ber would do it after the Seder at his father’s. And I would say that [unclear]. Can you imagine the physical side of it, how much they endured? A great big iron [unclear], like soup in a hospital, and the Rebbe was going to eat the soup at two in the morning. How cold must it have been by then?

1:36:32 Speaker 14 Mm-hmm.

1:36:32 Speaker 5 But that’s how it was. And no one could see what the soup was like.

1:36:34 Speaker 14 And did the Rebbe have to take out the plate?

1:36:36 Speaker 5 Was the plate placed on it?

1:36:37 Speaker 14 [unclear].

1:36:37 Speaker 5 Yes. Pesach. On Shabbos he did all of that, uh—

1:36:42 Speaker 14 In the morning.

1:36:42 Speaker 5 Sholom Ber Ginsburg. No, I waited with that. I went for Shabbos.

1:36:46 Speaker 14 Ah, you waited until the Rebbe had finished his Shabbos.

1:36:49 Speaker 5 I waited until the Rebbe had finished.

1:36:49 Speaker 14 Mm-hmm. Okay. So, apart from that... Let’s get back to the maamarim.

1:37:02 Speaker 5 Yes.

1:37:03 Speaker 14 I know you did a great deal with the edited maamarim. For many years, most of the edited maamarim were in Melukat Alef. In later years, the edited maamarim appeared much more frequently. And I know there’s a lot to tell about how that worked. How did you become involved in it?

1:37:30 Speaker 5 I’ll try to make it as brief as possible. Here’s how it was: the first Melukat contains—the Melukat it belongs to—fifty maamarim the first time around. And even among those, there are always six or seven maamarim that... that had already carried over from other periods of the maamarim. That wasn’t what it was. Until 5746, there were fewer than fourteen—forty maamarim.

1:37:55 Speaker 14 Meaning that throughout all those years the Rebbe could have—

1:37:57 Speaker 5 Fourteen, thirty years—about fourteen, forty maamarim came out.

1:38:01 Speaker 14 The Rebbe couldn’t have said only a few maamarim. No [unclear].

1:38:04 Speaker 5 The Rebbe gave very few maamarim. Once or twice there was the maamar of [unclear], the maamar of [unclear], the maamar of [unclear], and an addition to the maamar of Shabbos the 13th. The Rebbe edited them toward the end of [unclear]. It was an extraordinary thing the Rebbe did, editing those maamarim. Apart from that, chassidim would ask the Rebbe to edit maamarim. [unclear]. And after the Shabbos maamar, chassidim asked on Shabbos the 13th that the Rebbe edit them. They needed the Rebbe to edit them. That was, uh, one of the earlier ones [unclear]; I don’t know which Rebbe edited it, I don’t know which earlier one it was, [unclear]. And it became customary among the... Over time, people would pass by and receive a bracha from the Rebbe—for a bracha, for success at home, and through that [unclear], and through that, parnassah. [unclear]. That was during the distribution of dollars, and it was [unclear]. People [unclear]. On one of those earlier occasions [unclear], it was Rabbi Moshe Devinsky. He approached the Rebbe, received [unclear] from the Rebbe, and asked the Rebbe for what he wanted. That was how he received [unclear] the maamar from the Rebbe. He received it from the Rebbe, and still there was a submission. The Rebbe edited it, and it was necessary [unclear]; he had to come in the morning, and he received it. The Rebbe didn’t want [unclear]. The Rebbe edited the maamar, and the maamar was ready. The Rebbe finished, and they distributed the maamar. That happened with Rabbi Moshe Devinsky. He got satisfaction from it. At the end of the day, that was how it was [unclear]; the Rebbe thanked him. The Rebbe received one each [unclear] Zalman [unclear] with the maamar, [unclear], and Zalman made an effort to have it ready for the maamar.

1:39:55 Speaker 5 More was needed, all of it in the maamar.

1:39:57 Speaker 14 It’s printed, that, that—

1:39:58 Speaker 5 Printed, yes.

1:39:58 Speaker 14 Yes.

1:39:59 Speaker 5 And there was another maamar [unclear]. And there was also this [unclear] in its entirety, part of Yom Tov [?]. And there was, uh, [unclear]. After the thirty-six, there was a maamar. If only—there was also, here, here, [unclear]. It happened occasionally, from time to time—very few maamarim.

1:40:16 Speaker 14 So from time to time they submitted each maamar to the Rebbe, Rabbi—

1:40:19 Speaker 5 Right. So it was a maamar connected with Yom Tov [?], a maamar [unclear]. As for the other maamarim, sometimes the Rebbe didn’t ask that they add the maamarim. For example, the Rebbe asked that they include “Hanistaros LaHashem” among the maamarim—all three maamarim. That came out in 5736, but—

1:40:36 Speaker 14 “Hanistaros LaHashem”—what is that, [unclear]?

1:40:38 Speaker 5 I don’t know. “Hanistaros LaHashem” is [unclear].

1:40:41 Speaker 14 I know, but it wasn’t all good.

1:40:42 Speaker 5 The Rebbe’s maamarim from 5711 that were once printed in [unclear]—that’s “Hanistaros LaHashem.”

1:40:49 Speaker 14 So they added more maamarim for Yom Tov [?] when they submitted them to the Rebbe? Was that [unclear]?

1:40:53 Speaker 5 [unclear].

1:40:53 Speaker 14 [unclear].

1:40:54 Speaker 5 Yes.

1:40:55 Speaker 14 They asked? They presented them?

1:40:56 Speaker 5 Yes. From time to time. The Rebbe would [unclear], [unclear] the maamarim. But that happened only from time to time. After 5728, the Rebbe gave a series of maamarim: Tishrei, Motzaei Simchas Torah, Motzaei Shabbos Bereishis, Noach, Lech Lecha. Before that, there had been those maamarim. Others connected with it, the Rebbe didn’t give.

1:41:19 Speaker 14 So the sicha—that was the whole arrangement, that the Rebbe didn’t give—

1:41:23 Speaker 5 I think the sicha... It wasn’t like that. That’s the sicha, that’s Likkutei Sichos; it isn’t—

1:41:27 Speaker 14 But even in general, that was the arrangement: the Rebbe didn’t give them.

1:41:30 Speaker 5 It wasn’t like that. Likkutei Sichos wasn’t complete—

1:41:32 Speaker 14 There were people even in those years.

1:41:33 Speaker 5 There were periods, too.

1:41:34 Speaker 14 Yes.

1:41:34 Speaker 5 In general, when someone spoke, the maamarim weren’t available. For [unclear] five years, there were no printed maamarim at all. There were no printed maamarim whatsoever. [unclear] In 5736, on Shabbos Chayei Sarah, there was “And Avraham Was Old, Advanced in Days.” The Rebbe delivered a maamar on Motzaei Shabbos, after Parshas Chayei Sarah, [unclear]. The Rebbe delivered a maamar. A sicha [unclear]—that was another time. And you should know, even a printed maamar: as Shavuos approached, they submitted a maamar to the Rebbe. [unclear] At the conclusion of the printing of the Torah of [unclear], the Rebbe said this, that at the conclusion of the printing of the Torah for our receiving of the Torah. The maamar—and then it depends; perhaps another time [unclear] a different answer. In general, until that time, apart from one occasion, all the maamarim had been here in advance. The Rebbe was [unclear]; two came out the following week. [unclear]. [unclear]. [unclear]. And it says [unclear]. The Rebbe [unclear] another [unclear] here. And it says, “With joy for Shavuos,” [unclear]. There was a whole [unclear]. Hirshel thought the Rebbe wanted a maamar for every Yom Tov. The Rebbe had already done so before Shavuos. Reb Eliezer said, “But they had made booklets before, because before then it wasn’t possible to give an instruction.” The Rebbe does give an instruction. I’m sure, but the Rebbe says what it means to make booklets. Anyway, they argued here: you say one thing, I say another. And in practice, the Rebbe edited the maamar.

1:43:11 Speaker 5 After that there were two [unclear]. Then the Rebbe edited the maamar for Shavuos itself, from [unclear], 5746. There was great joy. And, to return to [unclear], it came out [unclear]—it was Shabbos, Shabbos Chukas-Balak in [unclear]. Exactly like [unclear]. Shabbos, Sunday, and [unclear] the Rebbe gave, added the maamar [unclear] with one signature. What was significant, and very noticeable, [unclear] was that in one day the Rebbe was already saying it was past the time. They took the maamar as it was written in large print. They argued about it [unclear]: it couldn’t remain pending forever.

1:43:44 Speaker 15 It remained pending.

1:43:45 Speaker 5 Yes, that was another week that they worked on it.

1:43:46 Speaker 15 Was that, was that [unclear] of Lahak, or even before Lahak?

1:43:50 Speaker 5 No. Yes, it was pending—call it chaos, call it whatever you want. I think that was it, yes; they worked on it here, I’m quite sure.

1:43:55 Speaker 15 But that—

1:43:57 Speaker 5 [unclear].

1:43:59 Speaker 15 Ah.

1:44:00 Speaker 5 And the Rebbe handed him the maamar, and there was great joy over the maamar. Afterward, the maamar was exactly as the Rebbe had handed it over, and the Rebbe said, “Get up for [unclear]; we’re going from—ah, [unclear]—the last maamar concerns the [unclear] on Shabbos. And here, in Elul ’43, in [unclear] ’43, they write the [unclear].” The Rebbe handed it over once. But the second time, the Rebbe said—he didn’t say it; that was just how it seemed. That impression shaped the edited version. He took down the table, did... took—I mean, took—the meal, made very fine distinctions, you know, from one to the Rebbe, [unclear]. In general, the procedure was—so, in the second round of editing, when... with the first one, the second round of editing was when they divided the maamar into chapters. Until someone had divided it, but not—

1:44:51 Speaker 16 The procedure was—so, on one occasion there were two rounds of editing.

1:44:53 Speaker 5 Two rounds of editing. Until ’48, there were two rounds of editing. A fourth thing.

1:44:57 Speaker 16 The first round of editing was for editing, and the second was to check—

1:44:59 Speaker 5 Another round of editing.

1:45:00 Speaker 16 To check that it was indeed correct.

1:45:01 Speaker 5 That it was indeed correct. The Rebbe added things in the second round of editing, ah, to make sure it was right. That was the edited version they could be sure of.

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1:46:42 Speaker 17 Here, that had never happened. You start with a maamar: the Rebbe hands over the maamar. Then, after the editing, they begin a second time, after all the text is there, to divide it into chapters—chapter two, chapter three. Here, with this maamar, the Rebbe himself divided it into chapters.

1:47:00 Speaker 16 Ah, that was with the first round of editing?

1:47:01 Speaker 17 With the second round of editing.

1:47:01 Speaker 16 With the second round of editing.

1:47:02 Speaker 17 Himself, himself—

1:47:03 Speaker 16 But there had already been—

1:47:04 Speaker 17 They didn’t think, they didn’t think this was the second round of editing. In fact, the previous round of editing had been five years earlier.

1:47:08 Speaker 16 Ah, okay.

1:47:08 Speaker 17 They had already grown accustomed to it. The Rebbe himself would divide it into chapters. After all the editing, the Rebbe would hand it over, and the way things worked with him, if it was already a second time, they would never print it. Once, several years passed in between. The maamar still wasn’t edited until it was edited. On Sukkos, there was the maamar “Chag Ha’asif” here; by the end, they had already seen the booklet “Chag HaSukkos,” or the booklet “Shemini Atzeres Simchas Torah.” So all those maamarim that were delivered, [unclear]. Well, Reb Yoel could already see that this was indeed what the Rebbe wanted, so they began working on the maamar. In the early period, the greatest credit has to go to Yoel Kahn. He brought Reb Yoel to his home. The Rebbe would sit at night, the entire night, to deliver the maamar. Someone had to type it up for him; someone had to check everything for him. He served him and hardly slept—that’s what he did in the early period. But there was more and more of it then. Reb Yoel—he was someone to work with. He only had his evening livelihood, whatever he could manage to do with that. Still, afterward he could run around, ask questions, work, and get things done; they lived with it. He deserves the credit. Afterward—I want to say one more thing about that occasion—he sat with him for several hours. It’s, as they say—

1:48:20 Speaker 16 Did you mention, ah, ah, ah, ah, that thing earlier?

1:48:22 Speaker 17 Earlier? [unclear], that’s how they spoke. Ah, you got to know a little about it here, didn’t you?

1:48:28 Speaker 16 Mm-hmm.

1:48:31 Speaker 17 And, ah, it was a kindness that we began preparing the maamarim, the first maamarim that came. Wait, I’ve forgotten. Maamarim for all the Jews, and then printing the maamarim.

1:48:39 Speaker 16 As they regularly did it themselves.

1:48:42 Speaker 17 Yes, they did it there.

1:48:43 Speaker 16 Otherwise, they would have had to stop preparing maamarim altogether.

1:48:44 Speaker 17 Well, making introductions was normal. It wasn’t, ah, a situation where we could try to see how people held it up and so on, but here it went through.

1:48:51 Speaker 16 That was part of the editing in... that was—

1:48:53 Speaker 17 After another two, two places learned how to do it, but that stands in contrast to what came before; there had already been enough troubles. So they did it themselves—two books. It might have become necessary later, but Boruch Hashem, they were passed on. Ah, there, first of all, everything was for him. A complete recovery. And all of it was inspiring; he could choose whatever he wanted. There were several books they worked on, which could help with it, but he could sit for three days straight and immerse himself in it.

1:49:18 Speaker 16 Where was that, again?

1:49:19 Speaker 17 On Eastern Parkway, at Montgomery Street.

1:49:21 Speaker 16 Okay.

1:49:21 Speaker 17 In the basement they rented. Later he moved it to Motel Rivkin’s shtiebel. He wanted to come there to work on it, and they would sit with him for twenty-four hours, forty-eight hours, seventy-two hours. That was always how it went. I did whatever I could; there was no one else to handle all the practical needs. He would forget to eat, rachmana litzlan. They would be there for twelve hours. When he needed to make a copy, I was [unclear]. He had a pen and paper, paper. What he wrote would be typed up. Then: “Bring me a copy from here, a page from there.” We would search, go from house to house, looking for the versions that had been given out, with their mistakes. Then we would bring back the corrections. But each person had to pick up his own copy, because I made sure all the [unclear] was there. And you could see that over the years more than 160 edited maamarim came out. They came out, only over time. There were different periods. There was a period, for example, from after Tishrei—in the middle of Tishrei, from 9 Tishrei—until 21 Teves, when there still hadn’t been a single edited maamar. Once a maamar was submitted, the Rebbe would get to it. Then there was a second period, in 5748, when the maamarim came out upon submission. He didn’t give me all the maamarim. Only individual ones. For example, in 5750, there were all the booklets for 4 Kislev, for 9 Kislev—the maamar we have is from 5739. What? By then it was already 5749, ten years later.

1:51:01 Speaker 18 From them.

1:51:01 Speaker 17 But the Rebbe had already given one and submitted another maamar. The maamar after 5749 came out twenty-eight weeks later. And there was a submission from the previous year that the Rebbe had already given back. There was a submission from a later year. There was once a period of several months when there was nothing at all. That was very, very hard. I don’t know how [unclear] held up. It says, “Working on a maamar.” A passage [unclear] with [unclear]. What? You know, people were already used to things like that, but it was a great disappointment, truly. You know, [unclear]... And for a long time he was distressed about that maamar, right to the end.

1:51:41 Speaker 18 There was a period—what happened? There was a period when the Rebbe stopped getting to the maamar, until he did get to it. What actually happened there?

1:51:49 Speaker 17 It’s a story about [unclear], when they were going to discard a maamar—about that maamar being edited. What he [unclear] would give, what, where—

1:51:55 Speaker 18 So I’ll tell it. The story was—not [unclear]. You have to tell it.

1:52:00 Speaker 17 It isn’t a story. It was, uh, the beginning—uh, 18 Elul, and the Rebbe still hadn’t given back the maamar. On Rosh Hashanah, the Rebbe put out the Rosh Hashanah maamar, which was in [unclear], a large book of twenty-eight. And then, at one point, it appeared that the 18 Elul maamar had come out, and it appeared that [unclear] had come out. He hadn’t—there was some sort of getting to it.

1:52:23 Speaker 18 In other words, there came a period when it was as if the Rebbe was getting to it, and yet it still hadn’t—

1:52:28 Speaker 17 No. The maamar was lying there, waiting for him to get to it. “What can we do?” he said. “It’s lying on the Rebbe’s table. It’s lying on the Rebbe’s table.” In fact, it looked as though it had come out; they saw it there, and here a little [unclear] went across the middle, with, with milk. It was there on the table. The Rebbe hadn’t found the time to get to it. A whole week went by and the Rebbe hadn’t gotten to the maamar. Sukkos came and the Rebbe still hadn’t gotten to the maamar. And, thank G-d, [unclear]. Then the Rebbe went into the sukkah and took the maamar with him. [unclear]. And as soon as the Rebbe came back, [unclear], he handed over the maamar. The Rebbe said, “What do I need to say? I’ll get to it.” [unclear]. I didn’t grasp what he was saying. He said, “I don’t know. I’m giving you [unclear].” When I thought about what the Rebbe was saying, everything went dark for me. I immediately ran straight to that house. [unclear]. My friend, doctor, this isn’t simple. That’s what the Rebbe is saying, my friend. It’s, it’s—how do you put it?—it isn’t simple, yes. [unclear]. Are we going to go around saying that the Rebbe says he hasn’t gotten to it? You know what those times were like. Forget it; it became part of my life. Yes, yes. And he gave it, and...

1:53:50 Speaker 17 All of a sudden. [unclear]. What, what is happening here? A whole Tehillim, with such frightening words, and the Rebbe was there the entire day. I wasn’t at ease, but what can you do? You know. [unclear]. Whatever will be, will be. I went straight there. I thought about what to do. It fell on me, but I wouldn’t. Let them keep theirs. I went to a small kiddush in the shul. People came. And after the nighttime farbrengen, I said, “Really, just a little l’chaim.” Not too much—truly just a little l’chaim—to lose, how do you say it, the fear. I waited on the step where the Rebbe came down from the high platform. The Rebbe came down—the little jump. On the way down, yes. Everyone would still approach him, asking for blessings, personal blessings, and the older people would say that this should be for everyone, every Jew. I waited on one step, and—this was 5752. When the Rebbe reached that step, I gathered my courage. I said to the Rebbe, “May we merit to print the maamarim again.” To that he answered, “Amen.” And another ten maamarim later, he was already holding [unclear]; it continued until Purim Katan, as I saw it. Another ten maamarim after that. Yes. What would happen? Okay, let’s read the maamarim. What else is there to say? Okay, let me ask you: everyone knows you as “Lahak.” Maybe you can tell us a little about Lahak. What is it? How did it come about? Lahak is a—

1:55:16 Speaker 17 Story—and... and how you got involved in it. In Lashon Hakodesh, it’s a story that began in 5741, on 10 Nissan. Dovid Feldman wrote a transcript in 5731. He had already been writing transcripts for—fifty-two years? We’re in ’52, half a year. In any event, he had already been writing transcripts in ’31. They weren’t officially published for months. There was some of it, but by ’36 the work of preparing transcripts had become much more established. For a few years, they wrote up the sichos there. Then the person writing the transcripts went on shlichus. Who would do the sichos? The Rebbe’s [unclear] was already much greater, as is well known. In ’37, [unclear]. So they took the transcript work further; Hershel and Reb [unclear] and... Shimon worked together happily. That’s just a side point. But Dovid was living in Eretz Yisroel. There wasn’t a large [unclear] in Eretz Yisroel demanding it. He wanted a sicha in Lashon Hakodesh. It couldn’t—no, the entire transcript was in Yiddish. Everything was in Yiddish. This came up, as I remember it. Then Meni Wolf said, “I’ll take responsibility for the practical side.” Dovid came back. “Meni Wolf in Eretz Yisroel?” “Yes.” “Okay.” And Dovid Feldman came back here from shlichus, and they wrote the sichos in Lashon Hakodesh. This happened on 11 Nissan 5741. He wrote the sichos here, Melech Gurvitz typed them up and sent them to Eretz Yisroel, where Meni printed them, and from there he—

1:56:36 Speaker 17 Sent them back here. Many people went to the airport and handed over the papers. Many put sheet upon sheet of what had been printed and handed it over at the airport, and it was printed in Eretz Yisroel. And to this day, you see, many people came forward about it; there were people who didn’t like it, and many tried to stop it, and so on and so forth. But the point is that this operation went on here and stayed alive, and after a while they printed it here. With all the people who came, I had opportunities to speak, to speak with Jews about the Rebbe, and I have so many answers. I saw the Rebbe come in carrying the “Anash-Black” books—not once, not twice, not three times, more than that. The Rebbe came in with the books. There were two sichos—at Mincha, on a day in Teves, when [unclear], and on a day in Tammuz—two sichos, and the Rebbe came in with the books. That was something remarkable. And that’s not even to mention the years when the Rebbe was able to edit the sichos: there are hundreds of sichos here that the Rebbe gave from “Anash-Black.” There are hundreds of answers here that Dovid Feldman received about... about other questions that many people had concerning the sichos. This is where the [unclear] undertaking began; the [unclear] needed to be a regular thing. All right. [unclear] was toward the end of the year. They arranged it so that everything from Rosh Hashanah to 19 Kislev would make one book, and they printed a book. Each time, before Rosh

1:57:59 Speaker 17 That year, the Rebbe received a book covering Rosh Hashanah through 19 Kislev. This went on for four years. By 19 Kislev he would receive a book—on 19 Kislev itself, exactly. There was a whole plan to publish those books. And, as I said earlier, I distributed the sichos in Eretz Yisroel in 5742. Then, right afterward, I distributed the sichos in Jerusalem, [unclear]. After that I came here. They were working on Sichos Kodesh, but from time to time things took a while, and then they would get moving again. A little here, a little there, here [unclear]; here someone lends a hand, but not [unclear]. But here, the way it was there—they called him the “shlof-meister”—that was how they worked for a long time. [unclear], Melech went on shlichus. Melech Gurwitz. He was the director [unclear]. So who was in charge upstairs? Meni Wolf worked on it; part of the money went toward working with the Netzach Yisroel yeshiva for the bochurim here. Aharon Pfeiffer worked on it, and Reb Mottel—Mottel from Shulwein—one of those who gave the shiurim. Reb Shimon worked with David [unclear]. But one thing really was [unclear] here. But it went ahead. With the time and money involved, it was a little harder; it wasn’t moving. I got drawn into it a bit and put money into it—a small amount. In the end, it brought blessing: I already had a foothold in the funding. It started with a smaller amount, but then grew. And David pulled me [unclear] into the work on the, on the—

1:59:27 Speaker 17 For Reb Levi Yitzchak. They had already brought younger people into it, somewhat younger people.

1:59:31 Speaker 19 Those are the sichos—

1:59:32 Speaker 17 Sichos from... from the years of Reb Nosson Shottel. That’s, uh, from—

1:59:36 Speaker 19 Where did that happen?

1:59:37 Speaker 17 David had already been working on that for a long time. Let’s talk about it. A little—

1:59:40 Speaker 19 A side project, a side project.

1:59:41 Speaker 17 Yes, the idea was to create a new section, a new section, a new section. Here you have to create the right environment for it, but that takes time. You have to prepare headings and all that for [unclear], type up the typewritten [unclear], record them. You have to set up places, provide what’s needed, put out an announcement. There was a day for it, I think, once a week. They worked only on that. On the other side, there was the whole business of establishing the text of the sichos. She helped here for a long time and helped there. And when they had almost finished Sichos Kodesh—even a little before that—I was already more deeply involved in [unclear]. And there, with the maamarim, with Reb Yoel. Reb Yoel worked there every afternoon. It went along; they worked together. But I kept saying, “I’m helping, I’m doing things, but this isn’t my undertaking. I’m going on shlichus, to Eretz Yisroel, home. I don’t want to stay on as the mashpia.” I got involved, and became more and more [unclear]. I helped, and there they talked about money, about raising money. Then they ran out of strength. [unclear] said he couldn’t keep it up. Everyone said, “I don’t want any more [unclear].” So then it was going to be established, [unclear]. And there we had the edited sicha every week. That was—

2:00:52 Speaker 20 The Rebbe instructed that the sichos from the farbrengen be edited.

2:00:57 Speaker 17 Every week they provided [unclear]. Before that it had happened perhaps once. It wasn’t a major problem until it became a week-by-week thing. Over time, it became every single week.

2:01:07 Speaker 20 Week, uh, after week, after the—

2:01:09 Speaker 17 That’s a whole history. You can’t tell it in one minute. Not that either; here it became [unclear].

2:01:14 Speaker 20 What was the reason the Rebbe gave the instruction to edit the sichos?

2:01:19 Speaker 17 The Rebbe—what can I say? Where do I begin? But the Rebbe gave instructions to print more and more of his maamarim, his sichos, his selections.

2:01:25 Speaker 20 Afterward, they had that whole matter; they asked for it, absolutely.

2:01:27 Speaker 17 What do you mean, “they asked”? There was still the Rashi section, and afterward it became an “Addition to Rashi.” It became—it remained a small section. Later they were going to take it out; it had already been edited. Shlomaleh [?] was doing the finishing work so it could be taken out. Then there was [unclear] and a problem: they were pressing ahead with the maamarim, which we had been working on. Before that, there was also the question of money—how to allocate money for everything being done. For the Rebbe, so that it would be, uh, I did... I mean, I was working; I couldn’t [unclear]. Since I came here, everything had been paid for with money from private individuals or my own money, which went toward working on other things so we could obtain funding from them. That was how it was; that was how the situation continued. And then more books came along. In practice, Reb Yoel and David felt—and they kept trying to convince me—“You have to take this upon yourself, this undertaking, the management.” I didn’t want to. But you know, day after day after day, they persuaded us, and we wrote a letter to the Rebbe. It was already Cheshvan and [unclear].

2:02:26 Speaker 20 You wrote it?

2:02:27 Speaker 17 Yes. They persuaded me about the wording, and I said, “Remember every word.” But in practice, as things changed over several years, I saw it go this way and that. They pulled me in to take over the management. And I wanted to go on shlichus to [unclear]. I asked someone, and the answer was no. You know what I could do? The Rebbe circled [unclear] “accept,” and from—well, as they say, from then on it’s history, without any [unclear]. You know? And afterward, after that, there was Lag BaOmer, there was, uh, 19 Tishrei [unclear] as well, here and there. From that they made the sichos of the first year. That was normal. It was all—

2:03:05 Speaker 20 It came into being as something sacred, and it wasn’t—

2:03:07 Speaker 17 Yes, it’s sacred, but whether you’re pleased with it or otherwise, I didn’t do it in the usual way. And what we do—

2:03:11 Speaker 20 In other words, the Rebbe’s sichos from all those years—he no longer gives them for this.

2:03:15 Speaker 17 He doesn’t hold otherwise, yes. As for a written transcript, there was already something earlier here, [unclear] the Rebbe gave. For example, the book Toras Menachem, [unclear]. That was the first book for which the Rebbe gave [unclear] permission to take the transcripts.

2:03:25 Speaker 20 Toras Menachem.

2:03:26 Speaker 17 Toras Menachem.

2:03:26 Speaker 20 They asked the Rebbe, they asked the Rebbe.

2:03:28 Speaker 17 Yes, of course. How could they not have asked? Before that there was a book called Maayan Hayeshuah, which the Rebbe simply held, and the Rebbe wrote very, very strong words about it, and so on. Then there was the book Dvar Malchus. That was something the Rebbe was thoroughly pleased with. That, essentially—and then they did many other things. But it developed over time, only without that—how would they know? They were generally concerned with putting things in order. They had a small, attractive foundation of transcripts, but by 19 Kislev they were talking about working on a transcript for the 20th, for Nissan 5712. Throughout Nissan they were persuading people about the transcripts. [unclear] showed it to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe edited it. And here, in Nissan 5740, they would distribute material from Nissan 5712. And fifty years—

2:04:15 Speaker 20 Did you think the Rebbe would edit it?

2:04:17 Speaker 17 Why not? Where would it go [unclear], here—

2:04:21 Speaker 20 Even though, that Yom Tov, he did in fact edit his own words.

2:04:23 Speaker 17 They had kept it here for [unclear] years. Are you asking [unclear]?

2:04:26 Speaker 20 If so, they simply intended that the Rebbe would edit [unclear] too.

2:04:30 Speaker 17 [unclear]

2:04:32 Speaker 20 Okay.

2:04:34 Speaker 17 ... And they worked on it so it would already be ready, right? Afterward, they told me, uh, I’m setting aside time for myself. They were—we were beginning to get into the sichos of 5710. No, it was after Pesach 5712 that we began 5710 and 5711. The first volume actually came out in Kislev 5713.

2:05:01 Speaker 20 Yes, 5710.

2:05:01 Speaker 17 Yes. After that we did the second volume, of 5711. That was about, uh, a little under a year, shortly before the end of the year of [unclear], that’s [unclear], 5705. Only then did it come out. Here a transcript from Tishrei would come out, a transcript from Nissan, from Kislev. There was no fixed schedule; pieces came out—one farbrengen, then another. Eventually a whole farbrengen came out. That was a big thing. Once people said, “This is a book. Give us a kuntres we can study,” they still didn’t know. And once we had the privilege of providing the sichos in Shabbos B’Shabbato. After all, we worked first on the sichos. From the [unclear] we put out eighty issues here. What didn’t we do then, as they say? In addition, forty-three issues from my [unclear]. Add it up and that’s a hundred and twenty-eight issues, and there was still plenty of [unclear] left. There was more that hadn’t been done. Then, when the kuntreisim started coming out every week, it caused a great stir. Everyone, the whole world, began taking them and studying them every week. There was also a time when the Reshimos came out in batches, every week. From a certain point on, they didn’t come out every week, and it appeared that they were putting them out, that I was [unclear]. So that was how they worked on the Reshimos. The work on the Reshimos eventually ended, but they worked for Chabad. That part was done for the shiurim, but Chabad came first. Here I’m helping to get involved, already in—

2:06:36 Speaker 17 In Chabad there are other things too. Here I’m printed in Kesser Shem Tov. Here I’m printed in Tzavaas Harivash. And here I gave others as well; earlier, it was the other way around. On the contrary, I tried to help Chabad wherever I could. I published Toras Shalom so Chabad could see it and study it. I don’t know who sees it, though. Over time, it all got complicated. We did what we could. On the contrary, we helped and printed things earlier. And this came earlier for Russia—they say it was for Russia. They printed Tzaddik, Tzaddik I and Tzaddik II, Tzaddik III and [unclear], and the notes [unclear]. All of that. And from there I was already thinking—I had given more earlier, and I continued. On the contrary, it’s possible to help. In 5748 they printed Igros Kodesh, volume eight. It had lain around for several years, going neither here nor there. Then Berel Levin got involved and did it. We did all the work around it. Afterward, it was [unclear] for Chabad.

2:07:27 Speaker 21 Because, because he kept it, wrote everything, uh—

2:07:30 Speaker 17 No, no, he wrote what needed to be done. No, no—yes, he kept it. There were years when things were available and years when they weren’t. I can’t go into all the precise details; it wasn’t a separate undertaking. I don’t know what it meant for him personally. But at first he printed it with Igros Kodesh, volume [unclear]. Over time he printed volume [unclear], volume [unclear]. After that, Berel was still working on it. Otherwise it would have been even more mixed up. Over time, letters from earlier years came in, letters people already had. And then they began to be printed in the installments. You prepare an installment, and then there are new letters for it. This one gets added, and that one gets added, and another one gets added. There were several hundred letters sitting there, and I thought, how am I going to handle this? I’ll make a supplement volume. But do you make a supplement volume? And will it fit on the shelf? What do I do with the material on the side? It went around in my head and came up several times. Then once, when I was traveling with Leibel Alter in the area, looking for a place before continuing on, we stopped. It was for some children—there was a bar mitzvah there, and [unclear] was sitting in [unclear]. That’s when it happened. It was a three-hour trip each way. You know, we talked on the road whenever we had the chance. Among other things, I told Leibel, “They’ve given me several hundred letters. How can I possibly put them together

2:08:46 Speaker 17 in my lifetime? How can this be done properly? Where do they belong in the study of it?” Leibel said to me, “I don’t understand you. You have the biggest platform in Lubavitch. All of Lubavitch hears the sichos every week. Take one page each week, add a letter, and keep it going that way.” And since then, a letter has been published each time. And I can say one more thing: the more letters were printed, the more the Rebbe sent. People send them in; they arrive from different places. As they come in, we work with them.

2:09:19 Speaker 22 So you think that the work has already begun?

2:09:24 Speaker 17 Begun? It hasn’t begun at all. We just have to keep going and do it. A day has only twenty-four hours, but we keep at it, keep at it, keep at it, and we’re not doing enough.

2:09:31 Speaker 22 That’s something I wanted to ask. During those years—the years of the Rebbe’s nesius—new transcripts, new material, new writings kept turning up. I understand that back then you had to go looking, ask people and investigate. But today, when a new manuscript or a new transcript turns up, how much harder has that become?

2:09:54 Speaker 17 How much harder has what become?

2:09:55 Speaker 22 How does it reach you? How does it get to you?

2:09:59 Speaker 17 What’s the right way to answer that? The Rebbe sends it. People may not understand that, but that’s what actually happens. I don’t know why. Things turn up with people, in all sorts of places. Someone finds material he’s held on to for fifty years. Time goes by, and one day he decides to put things in order. He’s already eighty—or seventy-five, seventy-seven. What then? He calls me. How did it happen? One day it occurs to him. I come to someone, and I promise him. He has things he can’t let go of. There are others who have already laid hands on material, and others who kept things for themselves. And there are things that lay in places, mixed up, without anyone knowing. Sometimes it takes an argument; sometimes you have to go there—whatever it takes. But when he gave it to me, he gave me another bag as well. We don’t come and take people’s things. [unclear]

2:10:45 Speaker 23 Aha. And over the years, things come in on their own, and then—as more comes in—how much of it gets published? And of the material available to work on, how much was missing?

2:11:03 Speaker 17 How can I put it? As I said earlier, we still didn’t know with complete certainty how many maamarim the Rebbe had said. People always believed that the maamarim had surely been preserved. The ones that came in accumulated, of course. Four hundred and fifty-seven maamarim were missing. The Rebbe said 1,568 maamarim—1,568 that the Rebbe said. That was how many were missing. There was a great uproar, a great uproar. Eventually more than a hundred of them were found on tapes, but they hadn’t been released or worked on. There were also other notes. There were thirty maamarim that [unclear] had written down, but he had kept them. There were also maamarim he had written down that were still lying in the library, in the Rebbe’s library. There were more handwritten notes from a number of farbrengens. Material the Rebbe’s secretary had written to Shmuel Kapsky, to Rabbi Kaplan, to… Shalom, Rabbi Shapiro. Who had kept it—there were monthly sets of notes like that. A Yid like Dovid Fisher, yes. He wrote from 5724 onward, from when he arrived, until a late Shabbos in 5729. It’s all written there. And we also have chassidim, yes, who actually went and wrote things down. Arele Goldstein began writing in the middle of 5727. In the middle of 5729, Yossi Hecht of Elad began writing. There are complete farbrengens here, with three different accounts, and then it turns out there’s nothing. Four hundred and fifty-seven maamarim were missing. Today, after easily more than forty years, there are still

2:12:42 Speaker 17 thirty-three maamarim missing. Chassidim went and worked on it; it continued, and now it has stopped at [unclear]. Four hundred and nineteen farbrengens were completely missing. Today, eleven or twelve farbrengens are still completely missing. Of course, that number isn’t certain. At one point several hundred sichos were missing—sichos, nothing beyond that. For example, the Rebbe would come into a room for children. The Rebbe would come into a room for—for all the [unclear], yes. Several hundred of those were missing. Today, perhaps twenty-something are missing. But apart from the farbrengens, there could be a farbrengen that contained thirteen sichos in sequence. You might be missing two sichos from it. Altogether, only fifty sichos from all the farbrengens are still missing. But four hundred farbrengens have come in. A great deal came from tapes, a great deal from written accounts of chassidishe farbrengens, and a great deal from other sources. And suddenly more and more keeps turning up. About an ushpiza, about a particular Yom Tov, when someone writes—Reb Leibel [unclear], looking around, [unclear], and Chaim, and Chaya, Chaim, Reb Yosef Katz, who would farbreng. He covered this passage, and someone else covered that passage—that’s a sicha, I think. I can’t write it down. This one wrote it here; that one wrote it two days later. Did this person write it, or that person? From two sets of notes—

2:13:53 Speaker 25 That’s the situation in general.

2:13:54 Speaker 17 Certainly. This is one of the hardest tasks, and we also have to go through all of it here. Yes.

2:14:01 Speaker 25 Aha. I want to go back. I forgot to ask about something—about Toldos Menachem.

2:14:11 Speaker 17 Yes.

2:14:14 Speaker 25 What happened with the picture of the Rebbe’s father?

2:14:17 Speaker 17 That’s another one of the things that really troubled us. We’ll go through it. The first Toldos Menachem book, [unclear], the large, complete one—the Rebbe gave permission to print Toldos Menachem. [unclear]. There was [unclear] who went in the morning, and the Rebbe asked him whether the book would be ready by Shabbos. On Wednesday night, the Rebbe instructed them to print another bound book. Everything depended on the computers and all those things. I don’t know how they did it. Yes, it came up several times. They had long sheets, pages pasted together with source references, lines added to the source references, and headings. You can’t imagine how it was put together. It upset the Rebbe, it angered the Rebbe; he always submitted it to the second—[unclear]. Yes, that push came several times [unclear]. [unclear]. He brought it himself with the whole folder and did it. The craftsman sent it along, and he gave it to the bochur. The Rebbe took it on 28 Teves. The Rebbe made a wrapper on 28 Teves and circled a place in the letter to show where it should be submitted. [unclear]. He took it from her. Then came the second book. Yes, [unclear],

2:15:38 Speaker 17 That brought us to the Chabad archives dealing with Russia. And there was a photograph of the Rebbe’s father from Stalin’s time [unclear]. I knew that the Rebbe had given very specific instructions twice to print the photograph exactly as it was. [unclear].

2:15:52 Speaker 25 The Rebbe forbade it.

2:15:54 Speaker 17 You have to bring the person in.

2:15:56 Speaker 25 For—

2:15:57 Speaker 17 Why didn’t we... We didn’t include it. We didn’t include the photograph at all. Write a short letter. As we see, the first time the Rebbe printed Likkutei Levi Yitzchak, he included the photograph of his father. So now this photograph would appear officially. It would come from the institution—

2:16:09 Speaker 25 But what do you mean by “the first time”?

2:16:11 Speaker 17 The Rebbe printed Likkutei Levi Yitzchak in 5730. It has the photograph, the old photograph they had. The Rebbe printed it. So there was room here to print the photograph, a new photograph. Even though they were keeping it, there was the expert. And they wanted the Rebbe to approve it verbally, without anyone seeing it. Perhaps they had shown it to the Rebbe earlier. And there was a whole discussion about who would write, what we should do, whether they wanted it or didn’t want it. It came down to the details, to the scribe; Rabbi Krinsky took it. The Rebbe traveled to the Ohel [unclear] by car; this was after the Rebbe. And the Rebbe wrote someone a note in the car about what to do. They couldn’t read it, so he went in to the Rebbe again. In practice, the answer came out later through Groner. The implication was that permission had been given only to print it, and that was all. Afterward they showed the photograph; it went to an expert. This was at a certain point, before 1 Tishrei. It came down to details, details about the [unclear]. In practice, he went in to the Rebbe. It was at night, Thursday night, before Erev Shabbos. Erev Shabbos was Sunday night. So it was 8 Menachem Av—8, uh, 8 Elul 5711, at night. It came out the next day, Friday. Uh, no, he went in on Wednesday night, and they printed it on Thursday. It came out on Thursday. He went in to the Rebbe on Wednesday night. And after Rabbi Krinsky went in that Wednesday night, they said that perhaps

2:17:33 Speaker 17 the Rebbe would ask for the photograph. That was very difficult. They told Rabbi Krinsky, “Rabbi Krinsky, go in”—and he went in. “We have to send the book to print today.” The Rebbe laughed: “Ask for it? Where is it?” He said, “Perhaps—where is it? It’s this big.” In practice, he went in, and the Rebbe opened the folder and saw the photograph. The Rebbe said—as Yudel later recounted—“This can stay with me, yes?” He said, “They said it was only for printing; there is only one photograph.” And the Rebbe said, “Nu, they don’t print at night anyway. It will be back by morning.” The Rebbe kept it in his room all night, and by morning he sent it out. And indeed, on the night of 5 Tishrei, the Rebbe received the book in his holy room, printed and bound, with the photograph. And the photograph was seen again later.

2:18:13 Speaker 25 The only photograph we have is in that book. Okay, there’s nothing— No, that photograph exists. It’s simply, uh—

2:18:25 Speaker 17 The Rebbe paid the people who did the work on it. It was a mitzvah, a mitzvah... It took a great deal of work, and the sichos that actually make it up. What makes the book one of the Rebbe’s books—its layout, the recording—and then the Rebbe paid, paid Dovid Felder. That was the amount for his work; that was the cost. But there is one photograph.

2:18:41 Speaker 25 Yes. I notice that there were other sources and other projects dealing with sichos, earlier sichos, transcripts, and so on. And because of that they stopped, since new things then get held up. Seemingly, it’s [unclear] that was simply done right away; they didn’t put it out. So perhaps that’s why they didn’t continue working on the sichos right away and carry on the process. Meanwhile, many sichos that had been missing were added. This comes from—uh, we know that the Rebbe writes that it’s difficult, because they live with teachings. And that is one of the main, important things in his Chassidus. So when [unclear], someone wants to approach the sichos, the Rebbe’s Torah. In general, there is a great deal of distress over the sichos, from—from [unclear], from [unclear], from memories. So what—uh, how, how—what is the way to approach the Rebbe’s Torah and study it in depth, when there is, as everyone knows, so much of it?

2:19:55 Speaker 17 You’re asking two separate things. As for what you said about other people working and building up a body of work, you have to ask them. That has nothing to do with me. As for the “hanachah of actual Elokus,” you have to understand that there, too, the time comes and the Rebbe returns and continues speaking, continues farbrenging. There has to be a place where they discuss right away how to work, how to approach the Torah, how to write, what you write, what the machine is. Otherwise I’ll write it. First you have to buy computers, try out people, try out colleagues—you simply have to... Each person decides what his work is. We’re talking, at every moment, about the great thing that will apparently come; the Rebbe returns and continues the work. That is the first thing. We carry on, drawing on the Rebbe, his strength, and the Rebbe’s sicha. The second part of your question is about the sheer number of sichos. But first there is the broader question: in the situation we are in now, after Gimmel Tammuz, what strength and [unclear] should there be in a sicha? That is the first thing. A chossid is just like a soldier in the army: an army soldier knows all the army’s orders. A chossid of the Rebbe knows what the Rebbe wants, what the Rebbe says, what the Rebbe thinks, how he wants people to conduct themselves in this situation, in that situation, in another situation, and how to do it. A

2:21:23 Speaker 17 Jew—whether you’re a shliach, how a mashpia in a yeshivah should conduct himself, and so on and so forth. It can be, “Let’s go and see”—study the Rebbe’s Torah. That is the first thing. Without it, you can’t even begin to talk. There is another advantage to this: when you study the Rebbe’s Torah, through that “the person who studies”... Generally, a person cannot think two thoughts at once; he can think only one thought. Rashi, citing our Sages, says of the “pit”—what is the analogy of the pit? The pit, its empty space: “There were snakes and scorpions in it.” When the mind is empty, snakes and scorpions enter it. In practice, that is how it is in the world. Precisely as this has become the generation of the Geulah, one can see the Rebbe throughout the world, see him on video, hear him, and study Torah in the same language. As you said, there is so much Torah that... No one can say, “I have...” Anywhere in the world, one can receive it, one can receive it. But the kelipah also enters here and brings that darkness into the openings that exist. A person cannot hold both this and that in his mind. It doesn’t work. The Rebbe sometimes makes this point too: you cannot have materiality and spirituality together. They don’t go together. It doesn’t work together. It doesn’t work. One does not go with the other. When the mind is filled with the Rebbe’s Torah,

2:22:50 Speaker 17 with the Rebbe’s thought, with studying the Rebbe’s teachings, and nothing else enters—that is the first gain. Second, when the mind is filled with the Rebbe’s Torah, down to its depths, with a profound idea—not every Jew is capable of profound study, but every Jew has a feel for its depth. He studies and thinks, and as a result his speech comes out as it should. We’re talking about how we speak to other people, about Torah, and to ourselves—to ourselves with our children, to ourselves with our wives, and to ourselves with the people close to us. The language will be the Rebbe’s language, and the actions will be what the Rebbe wants. Automatically, the whole person is shaped that way. There was once a letter that Tzach wrote to all its members. It was a difficult period, and by 11 Nissan, when the Rebbe was turning fifty-five, all the members of Tzach were to study the Rebbe’s five edited maamarim—the maamarim that had been edited. The five edited maamarim. [unclear] “Mayim Rabbim.” The idea was that this should bring about a spiritual bond. [unclear]. The Rebbe took the words “spiritual bond” and made [unclear]. But here it isn’t merely a spiritual bond; here there is a bond like no other. It can encompass the physical as well, “including him from every side and corner,” literally. As a person studies, there will be

2:24:20 Speaker 17 His soul is alive, “and a wondrous union unlike any other”—not merely to take pleasure in the fact that the Rebbe’s soul is alive. That is the first thing. If we want to live with the Rebbe, this follows now from Yud Teves. What did the Rebbe say? Every year he will be more alive, more active, through us, among us, and with us. How will the Rebbe be more active among us and through us? When we go much further, build another building, another shul, another mikveh, another yeshiva, and bring another person closer to Yiddishkeit. That is how the Rebbe will be more active, more and more active, among us and through us. To reach that point, we have to learn Likkutei Sichos. There is no other way. Without it, we cannot achieve anything. The advantage is that it is available in every language—if you need English, Russian, French, Yiddish, or Lashon Kodesh. Whatever your language, there are easier things and harder things. They are even making books from Likkutei Sichos for children now. A child of about ten, or even younger, can learn the easier material prepared for their level. A bar mitzvah boy can already learn more—an easier sicha from Likkutei Sichos. A fifteen-year-old boy needs to learn something deeper. A yeshiva bochur should take the substantial sichos on nigleh. And he should not just learn them—there is certainly a way to study Likkutei Sichos broadly. Sometimes people work through the whole of Likkutei Sichos. A bochur can spend ten years in yeshiva learning Likkutei Sichos continuously,

2:25:45 Speaker 17 and still never get through it all. You have to learn it and keep learning it. Now, when you learn a sicha, there is a way of learning where you simply read through Likkutei Sichos, but that will not accomplish anything. People who take a sicha and learn it once, then learn it a second time, study its very words, and delve into it “with careful study and depth,” again and again—they become different people. They live differently. That is a way to live; that is how we need to learn Likkutei Sichos. Everything else follows from that. The footnotes are part of it. There are easy footnotes that young children can learn, or even someone who cannot push himself very far, even a layman who is weak in this area. Sometimes he can learn them. And sometimes there are difficult, hard-to-understand details. A bochur is already at a higher level; he needs to learn them, not pass them by. I say this maamar is a little like a song; that is how to describe what they live with. Take a chossid who tries once, tries a second time, to learn the maamar once a month. In other words, when there is a Chassidus class, the maamar needs to be there. But the maamar needs to stay with him: when he walks down the street, it should ring in his head. [unclear] Yes, once people saw the Rebbe, and they heard all the precious [unclear] already here. [unclear] Now, without this, it is impossible. There is so much truth. Everyone can already get through enough. Now

2:27:02 Speaker 17 there is a layman who finds it difficult. He learns only in English. Another learns only in Lashon Kodesh. That is no problem. It is available in every language. He cannot learn a difficult sicha, a difficult piece from Likkutei Sichos. There are easier translations in Hebrew. But this is the Rebbe’s Torah. Today, some of these things have been prepared in a form suited to every level, with so many explanations, notes, and explanations of words. The excuse people once had no longer exists. He can be in Australia, in Russia, wherever he is. He can go online and download it in whichever language he wants, and he can live with the Rebbe. That is what I can say. On the other hand, we saw a period when the footnotes were always understandable. At the same time, there were difficult sichos from Likkutei Sichos that were submitted to the Rebbe for review. One issue was that the Rebbe felt not enough effort had been invested in them. When there was tension, the Rebbe received... in the end, they saw that with every maamar—and once there were four hundred bochurim who would repeat the maamar by heart. The Rebbe would sometimes rebuke them. Sometimes the Rebbe would not allow it, when they had not reached an agreement about what to do, what needed to be done. Besides that, whether he wants to or not, when they go out into the street, whether he walks through water or not in his clothes, you see [unclear]. There is a Jew who has been in this for a long time; he no longer has...

2:28:32 Speaker 17 Shabbos, a Jew and Shabbos, and he does not... I will not say—certainly not more than a bar mitzvah boy. From that point on, he is going to say a Jewish word: an easy word, a word with flavor, without delay. There is a Jew from a religious background, but he is not observant. You can say an easy word to him, but it should be a word from the Rebbe—about the parsha, the holiday, or the day. But Torah needs to be engraved in your mind, known for a number of reasons, not just something you can say glibly. And not glibly to the point of [unclear]; today people know how to laugh at him. With thirty [unclear], with thirty [unclear], there needs to be a firm grasp of a maamar. Another Jew gives himself over despite the contradiction, a letter, something known to be alive—but we live as human beings, and so it goes out into the world. How do we expect to bring him into that world, and bring the world to the study of Chassidus and the Rebbe’s Torah, when it is known not to laugh at him? There is no shortcut in this matter. You have to learn it. But the learning is not something you do once at home and then just repeat the cycle.

2:29:29 Speaker 26 Okay, “I will illuminate you forever”?

2:29:31 Speaker 17 The Rebbe said that. The Rebbe said at a farbrengen after Pesach, [unclear]. The Rebbe said that when Hashem gave the Torah, in response to the request that [unclear] seven heavens, one heaven, He said: “Make Me one small place, make Me a little room, and I will illuminate you forever.” And the Rebbe said that there are tzaddikim whose Torah and learning shine forever, because they invested something of their souls in their Torah. The Rebbe also once explained what he meant by the words, “I am going to heaven, and the writings remain here.” He said that the body and the physicality of this world must now go to heaven. But it continues: his mind, his spirituality, is still here [unclear].

Also, as at an event, when we as rabbis bring physical [unclear] to be his generation, the Rebbe said that it must pass through him. The Rebbe will continue through his maamar in the physical world, but he says: “The writings remain here. You learn my writings, and I will do everything for you.” That is already how the physical connection is transmitted. We do not talk about it. The Rebbe once said at a farbrengen: “Why don’t you learn the maamarim? There are maamarim from your Rebbe.” The Rebbe immediately said: [unclear]. With that [unclear], it carried him through, when he was once very weak.

2:30:46 Speaker 17 We learned from [unclear]; we fell from a height of about five hundred amos. But when the Rebbe goes, you can simply go along—until you cannot. Without [unclear], it is not worthwhile; here, it certainly is not worthwhile. So you spend some time learning from the Rebbe: one time you learn ten amos, another time twenty. It creates a connection, it has an effect, it is alive. It is so satisfying. Learning that way, through the allusion and its application, the flavor, the— the new insight from above, the— we, we enter another world. We are in a difficult, difficult world. What is going to happen here? What do people think? What is happening in the world? We have everything with the Rebbe; we have to live with it.

2:31:22 Speaker 27 Okay, what did you do here?

2:31:25 Speaker 17 I can’t speak.

2:31:27 Speaker 27 I make a distinction here: a chossid who merited to hear from his Rebbe and continues to do so, to engage with a sicha. That is [unclear]. Hashem, through the development of the world—technology, videos, and recordings—makes it possible to transmit him as if alive, to hear him as if alive. And the fact, the fact, the present reality, that you can simply hear him as he spoke and see him yourself—that is something tremendous—

2:31:56 Speaker 17 Something amazing.

2:31:57 Speaker 27 Something amazing. That is, uh, an innovation [unclear] in its own right. And there may be people who understand the language but do not understand the meaning. Yes, they do not know what it means. Now, when you arrived in Eretz Yisroel, did you understand the sicha right away? Did it take time? And—and—and—

2:32:17 Speaker 17 I understood in Eretz Yisroel. At home, we spoke Yiddish.

2:32:20 Speaker 27 Because I don’t know it—

2:32:21 Speaker 17 Our language.

2:32:21 Speaker 27 That’s the language.

2:32:22 Speaker 17 When he was already a ten-year-old child, we’d come home and perhaps still ask what the Rebbe had said, but it might have been something light, or a story—where the Rebbe said something like this or that. And I can tell you, when he was a little older, it was different. First, they spoke about writing things down, perhaps even writing out a maamar as it was being delivered. They learned more. What else did you learn—halachos? Later, did someone know a maamar? They hadn’t learned it from the Rebbe; they knew it themselves. But after the halachos, then, then you could get into it. That was the order: Rashi, [unclear]. I’m not saying that a ten-year-old grandson was a genius here, but he wasn’t allowed to just listen and run ahead. Why do you seat a child in yeshiva? He learns Gemara, Rashi, Tosafos, until age eleven, and he’s still weak at it. You keep him there until thirteen; perhaps he can learn a whole passage and move on. By fifteen, he may already be able to learn Gemara on his own. It doesn’t happen in one day. A sicha is a sicha. What’s the question? But without learning, you can’t move ahead. There has to be some order. I’m saying, you can’t always [unclear] learn. I remember there were bochurim in our yeshiva who said, “We’re trying a little Chassidic translation.” They said—I don’t want to mention names or say where this happened—“This is for us.” And—

2:33:31 Speaker 17 There was a mashpia, somewhat Chabad-oriented, who said, “Learn it with him from the text of Samech Vav. You’re learning Samech Vav.” For him it was with the text, [unclear], but that’s understandable—precisely the straightforward meaning. He, the son, the “past”—that’s [unclear]. They come and want [unclear] to be a tzaddik. “Learn Samech Vav with them.” These are little children. But they were already talking about kedushah; whoever understood could see it. Later, when someone understands, he says, “This is too difficult for you. Yes, it really is difficult. Let him take another path.” But they enjoy it there. You have to find ways to draw the children, the bochurim, to things they find appealing. There are bochurim who like to learn. I need the sichos—the interesting sichos, as they say. I can’t [unclear]—how do you put it? One likes sichos about a Jew; another likes sichos about merchants. It should be just what—

2:34:20 Speaker 27 Nachum Karlinsky

2:34:21 Speaker 17 Don’t tell me. He’s already brought that into it. I don’t want to mention names. I say to him, bear in mind: where people don’t believe in the power of the Rebbe’s sichos, what does it depend on in a sicha? But what does he learn in yeshiva? He learns a passage of Gemara and understands it. And sometimes he has a hadran from the Rebbe, with all that power. Ah, he loses himself in it. Why? They’re good, after all. They’re good, one with another. Well, wait—it develops. There are more substantial things we can hear. There are more substantial things we can see. Strong things—a piece of music. Anyone who was at a farbrengen would have seen it. That’s all right already, ah—

2:35:01 Speaker 27 That, ah, here, here, here we’ve already—

2:35:05 Speaker 17 Stop. We need to—let’s talk about working people. Let every working person take ten minutes a day—

2:35:12 Speaker 27 I was just speaking with—

2:35:13 Speaker 17 And to look at the news—

2:35:14 Speaker 27 Yes.

2:35:14 Speaker 17 And to look at WhatsApp. Ten minutes a day, no more.

2:35:17 Speaker 27 I was just speaking with a young man, and he told me, “I’m already a businessman.” And he told me that the fellows had decided at a farbrengen that they needed to follow the farbrengen.

2:35:29 Speaker 17 Yes.

2:35:30 Speaker 27 But they still ask. I say, perhaps it’s because he isn’t used to it.

2:35:35 Speaker 17 He said.

2:35:37 Speaker 27 He said, he said, “The fellows”—there’s no problem with that. First, he needs to be near his Rebbe at home. Second, the Rebbe reviews it. They stand there—older people, young adults. I know people in their forties who don’t know who they are, standing at a farbrengen.

2:35:51 Speaker 17 I’m telling you something simple for young people: take ten minutes a day at a set time. During those ten minutes, even with the phone in hand, you’re not on WhatsApp or doing other things. Kol Hashaah, Kol Hachassidus—these are all [unclear]. If so, he didn’t want to look at it. He didn’t want to look at it. But it has to become something more [unclear] for him personally. Or, for example, the Likkutei Sichos project. We’ve seen that it’s simple: hundreds and hundreds of people are able to learn, and they learn a maamar every Shabbos morning. It becomes ingrained in a person. And people have gone through Mishnayos, the words of Chazal, and roughly more than fifty percent of Likkutei Sichos. Of course we have to encourage people and come up with suggestions, with things they’ll find appealing. Just as you have to give little children [unclear]—you give them candies and other things—so you have to give older people something else, which—

2:36:45 Speaker 28 Yes. I know—by the way, another thing. I know that over the years there were certain projects worked on here: the sichos and the Rebbe’s mother’s memoirs. First, there’s a plan to do, on one hand, the sichos, and on the other, the memoirs, and—

2:37:05 Speaker 17 One of the things being done now is the sichos that Rabbi Zalman Chanin has been assigned to work on for the coming years. Right now it’s quite close to the end. I can already say it’s close [unclear], but [unclear]. And the sichos—we’re not doing enough with them now, but they’re coming out in an orderly format, [unclear], according to the teachings of Chazal. To do it properly, with [unclear]. Until now it was simply reprinted as it was. I mean, the recorded sichos have already come out, and they’re arranging them further [unclear] themselves. And the Tanya altogether is a way in from, ah, one, one, one, one—open. And the diary. It was higher than—this fits—from the 187 sichos, that’s twenty; where is the, ah, the recorded sichos? And about forty—where is the diary? With the rest, you also have to know how to get into “Brov Vekhor” [?], where the Rebbe gives a letter—the point where the letter says something—and, ah, make it into [unclear]. If the Rebbe writes something, people sit down and organize themselves to do more holy things, not just for no reason. But the material in the letters—you have to work on that too.

2:38:11 Speaker 28 Yes.

2:38:12 Speaker 17 That embarrasses me.

2:38:13 Speaker 28 So my big project, the one I worked on, was Tanya Hashalem. And they can already—they can already complete it. They already interviewed Malka Plan about it on this podcast.

2:38:26 Speaker 17 Yes.

2:38:26 Speaker 28 And—

2:38:26 Speaker 17 Was there more to do on that?

2:38:28 Speaker 28 There may be more [unclear] in it.

2:38:29 Speaker 17 We need to—

2:38:30 Speaker 28 But there’s still the Tanya, well.

2:38:32 Speaker 17 There’s still a lot to do. The Tanya is something that’s finished. What we didn’t have—we hardly [unclear]—but the Tanya is already here.

2:38:39 Speaker 28 How many, how many—

2:38:40 Speaker 17 Boruch Hashem, there have already been forty thousand.

2:38:41 Speaker 28 Yes.

2:38:42 Speaker 17 And a little more than two thousand copies of Tanya remain. As for what’s left now, I don’t know what will happen in the next two weeks, [unclear]. Here in New York, I don’t have much stock left. I simply don’t have any left myself. And I hope for the best—that more [unclear] will arrive and we’ll print another twenty thousand. A lot of people say it’s not normal to print so many and sell them so cheaply. All those people, all the [unclear], all the [unclear], can say whatever they want. [Unclear] doesn’t enter into [unclear]. I’m a merchant, but this isn’t about commerce. Those same people said that about the first twenty thousand, and surely the same thing could happen with the second twenty thousand. We have no choice: we must flood the world with the Rebbe’s Torah. As long as the Rebbe’s Torah hasn’t reached every Jew, we haven’t even begun the work. Once it reaches them, then the work can begin. The Rebbe isn’t waiting for us. There’s no question about it. But someone might say we shouldn’t rely on that, because we haven’t done it yet. What are forty thousand copies of Tanya? The Jewish community is so large. The Jewish world is so large. [Unclear]. Here we can do something; we can be satisfied with—

2:39:55 Speaker 17 Of the number we know for certain were sold, eleven thousand copies of Tanya went to the wider public, not to the Lubavitch community. And that is the victory. As the Rebbe said, “I ask myself: with this, we haven’t even begun to work yet.” On the other hand, we’re sitting here now and working on [unclear]. Boruch Hashem, the earlier section is finished. We’re working on Part One. It takes time. I know it takes time. But the first one keeps going further and further, reaching more people all the time. We can’t come to Jews who have barely learned how to study Chassidus and give them something that he knows well himself, something he knows [unclear]. It’s difficult. On the other hand, he speaks in [unclear] language. That may also be a source; perhaps the Rebbe said it. And they need a path until they reach the good sicha that has already been worked on and prepared. Later, through all the things that were done, a person comes in and becomes the Rebbe’s Jew. But it’s hard for us. [unclear] It doesn’t come easily to us.

2:40:51 Speaker 29 So are there other things that could be done, that you’re planning or would like to do? Is there a dream along those lines?

2:40:59 Speaker 17 That thing. But, uh—

2:41:01 Speaker 29 What’s it called?

2:41:02 Speaker 17 But meanwhile—

2:41:03 Speaker 29 What’s it called?

2:41:03 Speaker 17 There are only twenty-four hours in a day, after all.

2:41:05 Speaker 29 What—what would it be? What should there be? What could there be?

2:41:08 Speaker 17 The Rebbe’s Haggadah. Like the Tanya, but they aren’t involved with it the way they are with the Haggadah.

2:41:12 Speaker 29 How? In what format?

2:41:14 Speaker 17 In this format. It is the Haggadah, after all. And then there’s also the Rebbe’s—

2:41:18 Speaker 29 All the sichos from—every, every—

2:41:20 Speaker 17 All the sichos of all the Amoraim and, uh, of all the Rebbes, really. There’s the chain of Rebbes in the Haggadah—the Chassidic Haggadah.

2:41:25 Speaker 29 The complete Haggadah.

2:41:27 Speaker 17 A complete Haggadah. As I said, it’s the complete Haggadah, but it’s from 5750. [unclear] You can’t leave it like that; you can’t let it become outdated.

2:41:40 Speaker 29 Yes.

2:41:40 Speaker 17 What—how can that be with the holy Haggadah? It’s the holy Haggadah, after all. You can’t [unclear]. What? Only what the Rebbe [unclear]? Only what the Rebbe did? We can’t get people to do it for that. We can’t do it that way. We’ve already tried it again a little. A few different things came out, or [unclear]. Those are experiments with what is written in Tanya. It simply didn’t do anything for us, and we didn’t talk about it with people at all. We spoke with people for eight years. And here I give the greatest credit to [unclear], who were the [unclear] Jews. We call it Yiddish here, but what we mean is that we’re reaching them. I said, “[unclear].” This is a book whose donors won’t be publicized. It’s a book people will give money to produce without limit; I didn’t yet know how much at the time. That’s the truth: someone wants to give the Rebbe a gift, without getting anything back. With other things, you build a building and want your name there; you produce a book, it costs a hundred thousand dollars, you put in a hundred, and it’s made public. Here they want nothing. They want to give the Rebbe a gift. And the Rebbe [unclear]. It wasn’t that some force sent a message and they acted on it, and the Rebbe supported it, because the Rebbe already says explicitly [unclear]. And the Jew was moved: “Yes, I want to give the

2:42:47 Speaker 17 Rebbe a gift.” Later, people with greater means came, and there was more money—all well and good. But to do it once because someone had a dream—there are things of the Rebbe’s that need to be done, and, remarkably, that needs to be said. The Rebbe is going to make some albums, and you’re not supposed to put crazy amounts of money into that? If the Rebbe wanted it, it has to happen. You build a Chabad House for ten million dollars; a mikveh is needed, so it has to be built. Here you can—you see it, you see the Rebbe in [unclear]. Here nothing else is needed; you need to do what the Rebbe wants. The whole world should already be doing this, so that the Rebbe will be present in every home.

2:43:25 Speaker 30 In short, there are a thousand things to do.

2:43:27 Speaker 17 Yes, there’s work to do here. But I need to study; I need time to study it myself. You can’t put it together just with—

2:43:35 Speaker 30 Yes. Okay, we’ll meet again, [unclear], Iti Teicher.

2:43:41 Speaker 17 Perhaps the Haggadah.

2:43:42 Speaker 30 Perhaps the Haggadah. And we’ll see the Rebbe.

2:43:46 Speaker 17 That is indeed a kind of seeing, but above all, we must study the Rebbe’s Torah.

2:43:50 Speaker 30 Yes.

2:43:50 Speaker 17 Though another teaching says about this that “it is foolish to touch Moshiach’s head.” But it can’t be that Moshiach’s head is “foolish to touch” in the teachings, that it’s something that doesn’t remain.

2:43:59 Speaker 30 Yes.

2:43:59 Speaker 17 L’chaim and blessings!

2:44:00 Speaker 30 Goodbye, stay healthy, and much success!

2:44:02 Speaker 17 Goodbye, and be well.