The Sparkling Eyes: The Rebbe's Educational Revolution | Rabbi Shlomo Bar Nathan #005

00:00 Speaker 1 How do we take the powerful energy of our children, of our young people, and channel it in the right direction instead of beating it down and silencing them? For this episode, I sat down with Rabbi Shlomo Bar Natan, a mashpia at the Yeshivas Tzeirei Hashluchim and a lecturer at seminaries in Tzfas. Together we’ll explore what Chassidus teaches us about education, and we’ve tried to bring it down to the simplest practical realities of life. I’m Meir Wishnefsky, and you’re listening to On Chabad Education. Rabbi Shlomo Bar Natan, welcome.

00:29 Speaker 2 Thank you for inviting me.

00:31 Speaker 1 Yes, I’d like us to talk today about what education looks like through the lens of Chassidus. Let’s see if we can get there. What do we mean by education? And we’re chassidim, after all, Chabad chassidim. What does that mean? How does it translate into practice?

00:50 Speaker 2 Good question. I don’t know if one episode will be enough, but let’s start. The truth is that when you look at things from the perspective of Chassidus, you get a revolutionary view. It’s not just another insight or one extra detail. It’s an entirely different way of looking at things. I want to begin with a beautiful thought I heard in a sicha of the Rebbe. The Rebbe once asked about the beginning of chapter two of Pirkei Avos. It begins, “Rabbi says: Which is the right path...?” But usually, in the style of the Talmud, when the Gemara or Mishnah introduces the first opinion, it says, “Rabbi So-and-so said...” The second opinion, the one that comes to disagree, is introduced with “And Rabbi says...” In other words, saying “Rabbi says” rather than “Rabbi So-and-so said” makes it sound as though he’s presenting a second, dissenting opinion. Yet here a chapter begins, out of nowhere, with “Rabbi says,” as though he’s disagreeing with someone. The Rebbe explains it this way—and it’s a wonderful insight. Because Rabbi was the nasi of his generation, everything he said, on some level, came to challenge the status quo. What he said was a revelation of G-dliness from Above, not the reality we’re familiar with in this world. So when Rabbi speaks, it’s “Rabbi says” from the outset. Everything that came before is, so to speak, left lacking. I wouldn’t say it has no importance, but compared with this perspective, it’s as though its importance falls away. That’s the great innovation. What does this have to do with our subject? I’ll start with a story about the Rebbe. It’s an amazing story. On the surface it looks like a sweet little story, something you might simply say “oh” about. But if you look at it

02:55 Speaker 2 more deeply, it’s truly a revolutionary insight. In the early years of the Rebbe’s leadership, when he established the Chabad educational network in Israel, the Rebbe strongly pushed for it to be a public school system, so that all children could come and have the opportunity to study Torah and Chassidus.

03:21 Speaker 1 Here in Israel.

03:21 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, here in Israel. I don’t remember the exact details or what year it was, but in those early years he sent an emissary to see how the Chabad educational network in Israel was doing. Imagine: the Rebbe sends an emissary, and he comes especially to a school. I don’t know how many schools there were then, but they prepared a big welcome. The emissary arrived and repeated a sicha that the Rebbe had sent especially for the children. The principal received him, and so on. After the whole ceremony, they said goodbye. [unclear] And he left. The principal went back to his office, and a few minutes later—maybe ten minutes later—he came out. Suddenly he saw the Rebbe’s emissary, who apparently hadn’t left. He was peering through the little window in a classroom door, looking inside. He was practically spying.

04:25 Speaker 1 Looking into the classroom—

04:27 Speaker 2 Yes, looking into the classroom. I picture him “peering through the windows.” He’s an emissary, and “a person’s emissary is like the person himself”; and of Moshiach it says, “He peers through the windows.” So there he is, standing and looking in. The principal says, “Wait, you didn’t leave?” “No.” “What are you doing?” Then it dawns on him: “Did the Rebbe ask you to look through the window and check something when no one was paying attention?” The emissary thinks for a moment. “Well, yes. The Rebbe didn’t tell me not to say, so yes.” “Interesting. What did the Rebbe ask you to check?” Think about it for a moment—I’m stopping the story in the middle. What could the principal have imagined? Whether the children were listening? Whether the teacher was teaching well? Whether there was discipline in the classroom?

05:14 Speaker 1 Whether the classroom was orderly.

05:14 Speaker 2 Whether it was orderly, yes. Whether the children were paying attention. What did the Rebbe ask? “Please check whether the children’s eyes are shining.”

05:25 Speaker 1 Wow. Everyone, another episode of On Chabad Education is getting underway. If you connect with what’s happening here, click follow on one of the platforms. The more our community grows, the more we’ll be able to bring on special guests and produce content of the highest quality. Be part of the journey. Let’s continue.

05:43 Speaker 2 That’s powerful. The Rebbe didn’t ask about the method, how much discipline it required, how much order, how much material was covered. That wasn’t the question. That’s the second stage. He was asking about what comes first, what matters most: Are the children alive with it? Are their eyes shining? Are they engaged? You know when a child is leaning forward, completely excited and listening, with his whole soul in it? That’s what the Rebbe wanted to know. Why do I think this story is truly revolutionary? It isn’t simply obvious. It’s really a case of “Rabbi says.” Why? To explain it, let’s go into a concept in Chassidus for a moment. I’ll try not to go on too long. Chassidus discusses the verse in Parshas Behaaloscha, “When you kindle the lamps,” and also the verse, “I have seen, and behold, a menorah all of gold.” This refers to the Jewish people: every Jew is a lamp—“The soul of man is Hashem’s lamp.” In short, our soul is Hashem’s lamp; it’s a flame. The Alter Rebbe explains in Tanya that this flame is alive and searching. It’s as though the flame is trying to break away from the wick. It has life; it has warmth.

07:09 Speaker 1 It always wants to rise upward.

07:10 Speaker 2 It always wants to rise upward and connect with Hakadosh Boruch Hu. And what is Aharon HaKohen’s purpose? Aharon HaKohen is an educator. The Rebbe brings this up often in his sichos: Why is the passage about the menorah placed next to the passage about the tribal leaders? Because Aharon was distressed when he saw all the leaders bringing offerings for the dedication of the altar, while he hadn’t taken part.

07:31 Speaker 1 Where is my place?

07:32 Speaker 2 It was as though he was saying, “All right, I’m not part of this.” So Hakadosh Boruch Hu told him, “By your life, yours is greater than theirs.” What does “yours is greater than theirs” mean? The Rebbe explains: Aharon’s role is tending and lighting the menorah’s lamps—which means kindling a Jew’s soul. And that, the Rebbe says, is the work of education. The work—

07:52 Speaker 1 Aharon’s work is the work of education.

07:53 Speaker 2 Yes. Education means kindling a Jew’s soul. Hakadosh Boruch Hu gives parents and teachers thirteen years—twelve for girls—to kindle a child’s soul and inspire that child. What do I mean by “soul”? I want to explain, because everything has a soul and a body. Yiddishkeit, too, has a soul and a body. The body is the framework, the system: what you must do and what you may not do. But there’s also the soul, the fire, the energy, the connection, the enthusiasm, the shining eyes. That’s the soul, and that’s the heart and essence of education. Why is this revolutionary? Because usually, if you don’t think about it deeply, you see the whole business of education like this—I can say it bluntly.

08:42 Speaker 3 That’s what we’re here for.

08:44 Speaker 2 The child is a little wild thing, a kleine meshugene who comes to drive me crazy. And as a serious, grown-up educator, I’m supposed to calm him down, put him out, suppress—

08:56 Speaker 3 Beat it out of him, as if—

08:58 Speaker 2 Yes, yes, calm him down, put out the flames. “Settle down, kid.” I impose—

09:04 Speaker 3 Set a boundary.

09:05 Speaker 2 Set a boundary. I set limits, silence him, suppress him, because, basically, he has too much vitality. You could call it that. Children are practically climbing the walls, and we know this as parents and teachers. And it’s not just little children; I mean teenagers too. They have that kind of vitality and drive.

09:25 Speaker 3 Yes, energy.

09:26 Speaker 2 Yes, energy that can sometimes be hard for us to handle. So what am I supposed to do as an educator? Calm them down, put out the flames, quiet them a bit—and, if necessary, give them a bit of a scolding and suppress them.

09:41 Speaker 3 Yes, it’s like taking the sheep in the flock that wanders off to the side and giving it a few smacks.

09:47 Speaker 2 Exactly.

09:48 Speaker 3 Stay on track. Behave the way you should.

09:49 Speaker 2 The Rebbe says: You’ve understood it backwards. It’s exactly the opposite. What I need you here for is to inspire him, to kindle a spark in him, to fill his soul with vitality and desire.

10:01 Speaker 3 But here someone will come along and ask a question.

10:03 Speaker 2 Here it comes—

10:04 Speaker 3 Yes. He says, “If I’m supposed to keep inspiring the child all the time, the little one—”

10:07 Speaker 2 “He’ll go wild.”

10:08 Speaker 3 Right. “What will become of my classroom? Of life at home?” So what does it mean to inspire a child? I’d be glad if we could try to understand what that means.

10:17 Speaker 2 Okay, so here’s the thing. In education, there’s what I like to call “turn away from evil and do good,” and the “do good” of education is the goal. Where do you want to get to? To awaken in the child a desire, a connection, an identification with these ideas, with their essence, with Yiddishkeit, with himself, with Hakadosh Boruch Hu. Take a child who’s davening. Instead of shouting at him, “Daven! Say the words! Say the words!” try to awaken something within him—an inner stirring, inspiration. Tell him what davening can do for a person. Something that will awaken him and help him connect. I’ll tell you something. I don’t know if I can mention names, though this is certainly to the person’s credit. Two years ago, my son had a teacher here in Tzfas, in second grade. He was a little boy then.

11:20 Speaker 3 How old is that—seven, eight?

11:22 Speaker 2 Yes, eight years old, two years ago. I noticed that when he was out of school—on Shabbos, or whenever it was—he would daven with niggunim. He’d sing the davening to these deep niggunim, and he was really absorbed in it. I watched my son, and I say this as a pleasant surprise, because it’s not what you usually see. He was davening with a deep niggun, really immersed in it. His eyes were shining. Afterward, I wanted to ask him how it had happened, where he had picked it up, but I didn’t want to dampen it, or have him realize I’d noticed and then feel embarrassed, and so on. Then I noticed that his teacher sang the davening with the children, using deep niggunim. He let the child’s soul express itself, come out, flow. The child feels that davening is his own thing, that his soul is revealing itself and he’s connecting with Hakadosh Boruch Hu. The Rebbe says this in connection with the Rebbe Rashab, who came to the Tzemach Tzedek and cried, “Why doesn’t Hakadosh Boruch Hu reveal Himself to me?” The well-known story. And the Rebbe says every child can reach such a level, and we—

12:41 Speaker 4 Yes.

12:42 Speaker 2 We don’t quite believe it. Yes, yes, the Rebbe says it, and we treat it as something lofty and holy—

12:45 Speaker 4 And leave it there.

12:46 Speaker 2 But it’s absolutely real. A child can do it. You just need to trust him and give him the opportunity, and he’ll soar. He’ll flow with it; he’ll go with it.

12:55 Speaker 4 Yes, but I want to ask something and pin it down a little. The message we have in Chassidus, which the Rebbe brings from Rabbi [unclear], is: Inspire the child. Take the child and inspire him. That’s the “do good” part. Inspire the child, encourage him, do things with him. As you said about the teacher who sings the davening with him—it will stay with him for the rest of his life. My question is:

13:18 Speaker 2 How do we make sure there are boundaries, respect for authority, and everything else that’s needed?

13:23 Speaker 4 Where does that come in?

13:24 Speaker 2 Right. There are two things. Let me finish the “do good” part for a moment, and then I’ll move on to “turn away from evil.” On the “do good” side, I really connect with a story that’s brought very briefly in Hayom Yom, about the Baal Shem Tov and the Shpoler Zeide. As you know, before the Baal Shem Tov revealed himself, he worked as an assistant in a children’s school. He wasn’t even the melamed; he was the melamed’s helper. And once they asked—no, the story starts later. They asked the Shpoler Zeide, when he was a great and well-known tzaddik, whom everyone knew, and he served Hashem with such enthusiasm, vitality, strength and warmth that it was unbelievable. They asked him, “How do you do it? We all have good days and days when we’re not doing so well. But you’re always so full of life. How do you do it?” He said, “When I was a small child, the Baal Shem Tov was the helper, the assistant to my melamed. Once, while taking me from home to school, he put my hand on my heart.” Just imagine: the Baal Shem Tov himself comes down to the child’s level, physically and spiritually. He looks him straight in the eye and says, “Do you feel your heartbeat?” The little boy says, “Yes, I think so.” How I would have loved to be there and see that moment.

14:58 Speaker 4 Yes.

14:58 Speaker 2 “Oh, yes, that’s my heart.” He tells him, “This heart—a Jewish heart—must always be warm, warm toward Hakadosh Boruch Hu and toward another Jew. Warm with love of Hashem and Ahavas Yisroel. Remember that.” And he said, “Ever since the Baal Shem Tov touched my heart, I’ve felt warm physically, from then on, always.” Hayom Yom concludes that this shows how an action of a tzaddik must have a lasting effect, and so on. But what’s the point here? How can you tell whether the Baal Shem Tov has touched your heart? The Baal Shem Tov means Chassidus. How can you tell whether you’re really a chossid, whether Chassidus, the revelation, the Baal Shem Tov’s Chassidic revolution, has touched your heart? If you’re warm. You measure it by warmth, by delight and pleasure in serving Hashem, by intention in serving Hashem, by the desire to do it. And once that desire is there, you need to make sure there’s also “turn away from evil.” What does that mean? I’ve developed the strength, the vitality, the soul—the main thing, the substance, the product.

16:11 Speaker 4 Yes.

16:12 Speaker 2 Let’s call it—

16:12 Speaker 4 The shining eyes.

16:13 Speaker 2 Huh?

16:13 Speaker 4 The shining eyes. What we spoke about at the beginning.

16:15 Speaker 2 That’s the product I’m developing and want to sell. Now, I can’t sell a product without a box and marketing and all that. I need to give it a framework. How do I do that? “Turn away from evil.” What does that mean? Not to dismiss or erase that vitality, but to channel it. The skill of a true teacher, a true educator, is knowing how to channel all that vitality, all those shining eyes, toward the right place and not the wrong one. In the language of Chassidus, the Alter Rebbe repeats this many times in Torah Or and Likkutei Torah: You must nullify the desire for the forbidden thing, not the capacity to desire. Here, “desire” means wanting to do something forbidden. I want something, but that thing is forbidden by the Torah. The Alter Rebbe says it’s very important, when you go through the process of refining and purifying yourself—

17:18 Speaker 4 A person working on himself.

17:19 Speaker 2 A person working on himself, of course. Nullify the desire for the forbidden thing. If I want to eat something that isn’t kosher, I take that food out of the picture. It’s treif, it’s pork—it’s gone. But the capacity to desire itself—the inner strength to want something, the capacity to connect, that wellspring of the soul’s desire—G-d forbid that you should put it out. You need to keep it alive so you can transform it, channel it and use it for holiness. Often, when people think they’ve succeeded in education according to what I would call a mistaken approach—suppressing, paralyzing and extinguishing the flames—they say, “Well, I’ve succeeded.” The child is a serious child. You look at him, and there he is. But he has no vitality, no connection. He doesn’t connect with these things; he doesn’t connect with them inwardly. He doesn’t understand their value intellectually, and he doesn’t feel their goodness in his heart. And then they call that kabbolas ol. Kabbolas ol doesn’t mean drying out the soul. Kabbolas ol means channeling the soul’s strengths toward the right place, not the wrong one.

18:42 Speaker 4 Now, okay, so we explained “do good.” We started with “do good,” and then we got into that story about the Rebbe and sparkling eyes. Yes, we said sparkling eyes. That’s what we need to look for. That’s the goal. Now I want to take all the “turn away from evil” and ask: What does it look like in practice? How do you take this idea? I’m a parent. I’ve heard this, and I want to come home tomorrow—or today—and act on it. I want my child to have that sparkle in their eyes. I’m a teacher in a classroom. How do I take this idea of Chassidic education and bring it down into everyday life, on the most basic, practical level? How do you see it playing out on the ground?

19:25 Speaker 2 Ah, interesting question. Let me say something first. Think about it this way, Ami. I’m very struck by the fact that the first letter we received from the Rebbe as, you could say, a Rebbe, was written a week before Yud Shvat. Leading up to Yud Shvat 5711, everyone was asking what to do on the yahrzeit—what to do on the previous Rebbe’s yahrzeit. They didn’t know how to proceed. So the Rebbe wrote a letter listing the Chassidic customs he advised chassidim to observe that day: lighting a candle, giving tzedakah, receiving an aliyah on the preceding Shabbos, and so on. At the end of the letter, he gives an instruction. He’s already sending the chassidim out on shlichus, even before accepting the leadership. He says, “Please go to the places where groups of young people gather, and those who are able, those for whom it’s appropriate, should also go to places where young people who do not yet observe mitzvos gather.” Before accepting the leadership: go to places where non-observant young people gather. Right? And what would you expect it to say? Bring them closer to Judaism?

20:33 Speaker 5 Bring them closer to Yiddishkeit.

20:34 Speaker 2 Ah, this is what it says: Tell them about the Rebbe, the leader of the Jewish people—the Frierdiker Rebbe—how much he valued and loved, and how do you say it, looked up to...

20:49 Speaker 5 Admired.

20:50 Speaker 2 Yes, he admired the energy and special vitality young people have, and how important it is to channel that in the right direction. How much they can accomplish in Yiddishkeit and bring the world to its fulfillment, to Moshiach, with all that youthful energy. That’s very powerful. You’re looking at a young American in the 1950s who doesn’t observe Torah and mitzvos, someone caught up in assimilation, half—

21:27 Speaker 5 Assimilated.

21:28 Speaker 2 Assimilated. And the Rebbe looks at him with completely different eyes. The Rebbe says to him, “Wow, what vitality, what energy.” Like Rabbi Yochanan said to Reish Lakish when he was still Reish Lakish, still a robber: You look at a robber jumping into the water and say, “Your strength belongs in Torah.” Here, I’ve found a treasure. The Rebbe sees it as a treasure. There’s strength here; let’s use it. He didn’t start by saying, “How dare you do something wrong?” First he said, “You have incredible strength, and the Rebbe admires it.” From there, we take it and channel it.

22:08 Speaker 5 Toward Torah, or all the things that—

22:09 Speaker 2 Yes, toward good things, toward serving Hashem. What you asked is always the million-dollar question. There’s a story my wife always tells. We’re always talking about it at farbrengens. It’s a story about the Rebbe Maharash. It’s very interesting. I’m sure all the viewers know that the Rebbe Maharash was very, very ill physically.

22:34 Speaker 5 Yes.

22:34 Speaker 2 I mean, physically, throughout his life. From the time he was born, he had health problems—perhaps metabolic problems or something—because he had all kinds of health issues from birth.

22:45 Speaker 5 On the other hand, he lived in a very wealthy manner.

22:49 Speaker 2 Very interesting. Yes, financially he was wealthy, one of the few Rebbes who was truly wealthy, but in health he was really lacking. And that’s also why he passed away at a young age. Anyway, when he was a little boy, I think four or five, the doctors had already identified a problem. I can’t explain exactly what it was—perhaps something with his bones, or a motor problem, or something like that. So they told his mother, the Rebbetzin, that he needed to do what we might call physiotherapy: exercises with his fingers to maintain proper blood flow so that, G-d forbid, he wouldn’t develop problems with his hands. What the Rebbetzin did is very interesting. It’s a small detail in the story, but you see a lot of wisdom in it: “The wisdom of women builds her home.” What did she do? She hired a chossid who was a—what do you call someone who works with wood?

24:00 Speaker 5 A carpenter.

24:01 Speaker 2 A carpenter. She hired a carpenter to teach the child carpentry. That way, you’re not telling a four-year-old, “Make an effort; do these exercises.” He won’t sit there doing them for half an hour. He won’t do the exercises, and then there could be problems. But wait—why not? You’re the Rebbe, the Rebbetzin; tell him he has to do it. What about an education in kabbolas ol? His father said so, the Rebbetzin said so, the Rebbe said so; the child has to do it. And presumably he would have done it. But she found room for a little child’s creativity and imagination. She found a way to channel a physical need—something he needed because of a medical problem. And it’s known that the Rebbe Maharash really took to it and worked at it. Because when you work with wood for hours, you move your fingers in all sorts of ways. And it’s known that the Rebbe Maharash made... I think there’s... To give a practical example, I once heard an educator give a very interesting lecture. Anyway, I’ll try not to tell it in full. It’s a long story, but he was an adviser to many schools and principals, a nationwide consultant to many schools. A principal called him and said, “Listen, I have an impossible child. Neither I nor the teachers nor the parents—nobody knows what to do with him.” So what’s the problem? Is he violent? “No, no. He just interferes with the teacher. He doesn’t accept an adult’s authority.” What do you mean? There’s a problem in class, and the teacher tells a child, “Sit quietly for five minutes,” or whatever it may be. And this boy jumps in and says, “Excuse me, teacher, that’s not right. You have to tell him this, not that.” What—

29:09 Speaker 2 What do you mean? You’re a child; that’s chutzpah. He tells everyone what to do, interrupts the principal in the middle of conversations, and has this completely inappropriate, insolent attitude, as if he’s in charge. They didn’t know what to do with him. So the consultant said, “Okay, fine. I’ll come to the school on, say, Wednesday. Do me a favor and invite his father. I want to speak with the father for a minute before I meet the child.” Fine. Anyway, here’s what happened. He went into a lesson. He’d asked the principal not to say he was a consultant or anything connected with education—just a stranger sitting in on the lesson. He sat in the classroom and watched, and something very similar happened. Two children had an argument, the teacher made a decision, and the boy jumped in: “No, that’s not right. You’re wrong. This is how you do it, not that way.” Again. Afterward, the consultant met the father. He greeted him and asked, “Tell me, how would you describe your son?” The father was a bit surprised. “What do you mean? My sweet boy—he’s a good kid. I don’t know, I love him. He’s my son.” The consultant said, “No, no, I already know you love him. I’m asking how you would describe him. Let me put it this way: What makes him unique? What sets him apart from your other children, whom you also love with all your heart?” “What do you mean? He’s a smart boy, and I love him.” The consultant realized that the father had a general love for the child, but had simply never taken the time to think about who this child was, what his essence was.

30:53 Speaker 6 What makes him unique.

30:54 Speaker 2 His essence—who he is.

30:56 Speaker 6 Yes.

30:56 Speaker 2 Not how much he is, but what he is, what his essence is. So the consultant said to him, “Listen, I’ll tell you who your son is. I sat in that lesson for an hour and watched him. He’s someone with a burning passion for justice and fairness. He always needs to see justice done. He always needs to... What you have is a judge. You brought a judge into the world, or a—

31:25 Speaker 6 A lawyer.

31:26 Speaker 2 A lawyer, a rabbi who rules on halachah, whatever it may be. That’s what he was born for, and it’s hard for him when he sees something he feels isn’t—

31:35 Speaker 6 Right. An injustice.

31:36 Speaker 2 Injustice in the world, in the classroom, whatever it may be. So there are two options: either suppress that impulse, because it really isn’t his place—he’s a child and he’s being cheeky—or channel that energy in the right direction. So what do you do? He also discovered that what the father had said was true: the boy was very, very smart, clearly above average. So what did he do? He brought in the teacher and said, “Listen. Before each lesson, meet with the boy and tell him: ‘Everything I’m going to teach today, you can listen to it [unclear], but do it as homework at home. You’re smart; you’ll finish it in an hour. Complete all of it. What I want from you is to study this sugya.’ Then print out material for him from Shulchan Aruch, Choshen Mishpat—laws about judges and what to do when someone comes with a particular claim. Prepare a lesson for him: Mishnah, Gemara, Shulchan Aruch, Choshen Mishpat. If necessary, translate it and make it accessible at his level. Then ask him, ‘What would you do in the case the Shulchan Aruch presents? How would you rule? Which of the commentators do you agree with, and which do you disagree with?’” The boy didn’t really understand what they wanted from him, but they did it. He was already an impossible child in sixth grade or so. Everyone in the school just complained about him.

33:05 Speaker 7 All the teachers.

33:06 Speaker 2 All the teachers, all the children, everyone. His personality clashed with the people around him, but not in a bad or violent way—just as I described. Anyway, at first the boy didn’t understand what they wanted from him, but fine, the teacher gave him the pages. He looked at them, started reading, and he liked it. He said, “Oh, wait, this is interesting.” You could see him getting deeply into the sugya. He wrote something like a written opinion—I don’t know what to call it. The boy really got into it, and from sixth grade onward he began studying Choshen Mishpat properly. And, just as everyone would expect at the end of this story, I think the boy did become a judge.

33:57 Speaker 7 Wow. He works in that field.

33:58 Speaker 2 He works in that field, and he really succeeded. And not only that: for the rest of his years in school, he never talked back again. They found a place where he could put this concern of his, where he could put his whole heart into it. Then he no longer needed to argue with everyone about justice and fairness, because he had a way to explore justice and fairness through his study of the laws of Choshen Mishpat. I think that’s a good example of—

34:29 Speaker 7 Of finding something. Finding a particular point, and starting there to let him—

34:34 Speaker 2 Let him run with what he has inside him, in the right way and the right place.

34:38 Speaker 7 Yes, but I’m thinking about this within the school system. If we look at the system, it’s...

34:43 Speaker 2 In the system, it’s hard.

34:44 Speaker 7 Yes. Wow.

34:46 Speaker 2 But as parents, for example, it’s much more—I don’t know if I’d call it easy, but you have much more room to act. You can have heart-to-heart talks with your child. But, for example, as a mashpia working with teenagers—do we have time for a story?

35:05 Speaker 7 Of course.

35:05 Speaker 2 Yes? It isn’t only about channeling the smile, inspiring them and giving that inspiration direction. It’s also about allowing the mind and heart—what Chassidus calls the inner life of the soul, its faculties and its innermost dimension—to connect with the process. I’ll try to keep the story short. Many years ago, I worked at Siyuta[?], and one student wasn’t coming, wasn’t coming—

35:35 Speaker 7 Siyuta is for the ages before yeshiva ketanah.

35:37 Speaker 2 Uh, no, yeshiva ketanah.

35:39 Speaker 7 Oh, yeshiva ketanah.

35:39 Speaker 2 Yes, yeshiva ketanah. He was fifteen.

35:41 Speaker 7 Fifteen.

35:42 Speaker 2 He wasn’t coming to the morning Chassidus class because he wasn’t getting up. Once, twice, three times. So I went to talk to him after class, sometime in the middle of the day. “Hey, how are you?” “Yeah, fine.” “Where were you? What’s going on? Why didn’t you come?” “I go to sleep late. I don’t know, I just don’t make it.” “Why? What’s happening?” “I’m not telling you, because then you’ll tell the mashgiach and I’ll get in trouble.” I said, “Okay, what if I promise this stays between us? I only want to help you, not punish you or tell the administration.” He said, “Okay, I’ll trust you, but don’t—” “No, don’t worry.” Okay. He told me he’d gone out with a friend, and it got late because, I don’t know, while they were out they met some girls. Then they chatted and laughed, and one thing led to another. Here was a serious yeshiva student who was supposed to be G-d-fearing and so on, and suddenly he was getting involved in matters of immodesty, with everything that implies. That’s why he was ashamed and didn’t want the administration to find out. He said, “Now you hate me, right? Now you’re going to lay into me, yell at me and throw me out of the yeshiva.” I told him, “No. I’ll try to explain why the Torah places such strong emphasis on this, so that you can see the point for yourself and decide whether to act properly or not. You’re already a grown person, right?” “More or less.” “Okay, but you’re smart enough to understand.” “Okay.” So I sat with him and explained what to do with these powerful feelings, what we have them for, and why Hakadosh Boruch Hu planted in us these feelings that develop during adolescence—in what I call a tsunami

37:41 Speaker 2 of hormones. Okay? It’s hard for them, hard for them to control it. So we sat together, and I explained what it’s for, why it’s there, how to use it properly, when, how much, why and how. We just sat there for an hour.

37:57 Speaker 8 Wow.

37:58 Speaker 2 I’m telling you, I remember this story even though it happened many years ago. Why do I remember it? Because his eyes opened wide. He was like, “Ah!” His eyes lit up. It’s not just enthusiasm for davening. Eyes lighting up means you’re inviting the child’s—or teenager’s—mind and emotions, his mind and heart, to be part of the process. You’re not just imposing it on him; you’re inviting him to appreciate it. And notice something: we always talk about kabbolas ol, right? Accepting the yoke of Heaven. Have you noticed that kabbolas ol means accepting a yoke, not placing one on someone? I can’t put a yoke on him. He’s not a donkey.

38:42 Speaker 8 I have to accept it upon myself.

38:44 Speaker 2 I have to help him take upon himself the yoke of Heaven, especially if he’s a teenager and not a tiny child. That’s where I’m trying to bring him. His eyes really opened wide, and he said to me—I’d explained it to him, and I don’t want to go into the details—“Ah. Wait, now I understand something.” What? This was a fifteen-year-old boy. “Could it be that, because of everything you explained—why Hashem gave us these feelings, why we have these powerful emotions, how I need to control them, and how to nullify...” I’d explained to him that you nullify the desire, but not the capacity for desire, because one day you’ll use it for holiness, and so on. He said, “Could it be that because people don’t go through this process, most of the men at my father’s Chabad House are divorced?” Do you see where we got to?

39:47 Speaker 8 Yes.

39:47 Speaker 2 He understood—

39:47 Speaker 8 He applied it that far.

39:49 Speaker 2 Yes, a smart kid. He took it further. He understood why the Torah’s path, the path of modesty, helps us live the life he wants and is looking for, but in a much better way than if you do it in a way of kelipah, following the yetzer hara, and so on. He understood it and applied it to life. It all clicked for him—click, click, click, click—and that was it. It didn’t happen again afterward. He came back to himself. It’s a process. Of course, I wouldn’t do this in a classroom. You can’t do it in front of everyone, but you have to look for opportunities. Maybe Shabbos afternoon comes around, and you have some time to talk. If he feels he has someone he can trust and can open up to—because instead of judging and scolding him, you’ll help him grow.

40:46 Speaker 9 Instead of sculpting him, you become a gardener.

40:48 Speaker 2 Exactly. And that’s the point I wanted to get to. Yes, exactly. This story has always stayed with me. I heard it years ago. There was a famous sculptor in Europe—in Italy, I think—called Michelangelo. I think he sculpted a statue of King David or something, and it turned out to be a masterpiece. Everyone praised him, and then they asked him, “How did you manage to sculpt something like that?” And he said, “When they bring me the raw material, I can already see the sculpture. I just remove everything that doesn’t belong.”

41:35 Speaker 9 I see.

41:37 Speaker 2 And I think about how sometimes we, as parents or educators, think we’re supposed to sculpt a child into some model of a good child. So I cut away parts of his personality. I strip parts of him away through all kinds of harshness, shouting, and scolding, and I try to bring him to where I think he needs to be. What’s the difference between a sculptor and a gardener? We talked about how the Frierdiker Rebbe says that an educator is a gardener. A gardener fertilizes the plant, tends it, waters it, and shields it from the scorching summer sun, and so on. But he’ll never try to turn a potato into an apple tree, because it won’t work. Or if it does, maybe that’s kilayim—I don’t know. But one thing is certain: if you try to... It’s interesting that the Hebrew words for “sculpting” and “invalid” have the same root. That kind of education is invalid. You won’t succeed, and it’s wrong; it’s treif. That’s not how it’s supposed to be. And maybe I’m making a connection here—perhaps that’s why, or it’s related to why, the prohibition repeated most often throughout Tanach is the prohibition against idol worship. “You shall not make a graven image”—but it’s not only about making a statue to pray to. Don’t make a statue out of your child, because he isn’t a statue. You need to help him develop and grow, not sculpt him. I think that’s the crux of it.

43:22 Speaker 9 Rabbi Shlomo Bar Natan, before we finish, a small tip about education—educating ourselves, educating our children—something you take with you, something that stays with you.

43:33 Speaker 2 Okay. The tip is based on the introduction to the Tanya and to Chassidus as a whole. Before the Alter Rebbe even begins the book, he writes that he’s going to explain how to come close to Hashem by a “long and short way.” Right? So, in simple terms, for me the long and short way means letting go of the pressure and anxiety to see immediate results and focusing on the process. When you focus on the process, you enjoy it and you also get results. When you focus only on results, in the end you don’t get there, and you suffer along the way too. So adopt that mindset of the long and short way. Enjoy the process, and with Hashem’s blessing, you’ll surely get there.

44:31 Speaker 10 Shlomo Bar Natan, thank you very much. Yasher koach.

44:34 Speaker 2 There’s still a lot more to discuss about this, but with Hashem’s help we’ll have more opportunities.

44:40 Speaker 10 With Hashem’s help. Thank you very much. Yasher koach.

44:41 Speaker 2 Thank you so much, dear friend. All the best.