5 of Teves - Didan Natzach, the festival of the books

00:00 Speaker 1 Today we're gonna talk in the Yemei Chabad. Actually, we're going ahead, and we'll talk about the Hey Teves. Hey Teves has several, uh, several, uh, entries on the fifth day of Teves. But of course, the, uh, most, uh, relevant and the last one that is important to us is called the Festival of the Dan Noつach, in which we were victorious, the festival of, the festival of the books, that they were finally, um, the court ruled, and we'll talk about it. But we go in the events, the way they took place, so we'll go in the history, uh, the days as it took place. So the first one, we're talking about the fifth day of Teves in the year Taf Reish Ayin Zayin. That's, uh, five thousand six hundred and seventy-six actually. Taf Reish Ayin Vav. In seventy-six. That was the passing of Harav HaChasid, Reb Mordechai Duber Slonim. As we, um, as we spoke about, he was the son of the Rebbetzin Menuchah Rochel, who was the daughter of the Mitler Rebbe. Okay, so this is December thirtieth in nineteen sixteen. During the war. Yeah. So the Mordechai Duber, uh, was with his mother. They lived-- They went up to Israel, as we studied yesterday or the day before, that they went up to Israel, um, together with her husband, Reb Yaakov Cholo Slonim. We learned about him, and he, uh, they had a son. His name was Reb Mordechai Duber. He was actually born in Lubavitch in the year Taf Reish, about

01:45 Speaker 1 in eighteen thirty-nine or eighteen forty. Right. He was five years old when he went up to Hebron, when his parents made Aliyah, and he went up to Hebron. And he was one of the leaders of Kollel Chabad in Israel. Kollel Chabad, that's the charity, uh, umbrella organization which supported, uh, various endeavors of Chabad, especially in Israel. Um, today, we also have a Kollel Chabad, which is a very successful organization which does a lot of good, helps people that are poor. It helps, um, people that are studying Torah. It's various different, uh, levels of support that it provides to, uh, these, um, to, to people. And, uh, he was, uh, very, uh, devoted to the Rebbes that he traveled many times to the city of Lubavitch from Hebron to be by the Rebbe. And the previous Rebbe writes about it in his, uh, sigas. Now, the first time there is the Rebbe writes or the-- it's related about his first, um, trip that he took to Lubavitch, he was already forty years old. Um, that means that he was already-- he left, he was thirty-five years in Israel. So for the first time, he was forty years old when he traveled to Lubavitch, and he went to the Rebbe Maharash. The Rebbe Maharash, I mean, his mother was the same generation as the Tzemach Tzedek, his mother. His mother. That's his first cousin because the Tzemach Tzedek, Tzemach Tzedek's, uh, first of all, the Tzemach Tzedek's wife was a sister to Menuchah Rochel. Um, Menuchah Rochel

03:46 Speaker 1 was a daughter of the Mitler Rebbe, and the Tzemach Tzedek's wife, Hay Mushka, was also a daughter of the Mitler Rebbe, uh, was the daughter of the Mitler Rebbe. But she married, Hay Mushka married the Tzemach Tzedek, whose son was the Rebbe Maharash, and she, Menuchah Rochel, married Reb Yaakov Cholo Slonim, who had a son, Reb Mordechai Ber- Uh-huh. -who, who ha-- who had a son, Mordechai Ber, who was the Rebbe Maharash's first cousin. He was the Rebbe Maharash's first cousin, and he traveled to the Rebbe Maharash. And when he came to Lubavitch for the very first time for him, he was a kid of five years old. He didn't probably know his ins and out over there. It was the middle of the night, and he had nowhere to go. So where was he gonna go in the middle of the night? So he asked the wagon driver that he should take him to the Rebbe's home, take him to the hou-house of the Rebbe. Um, he was sure that the Rebbe doesn't sleep, uh, at this time of the night. He's probably gonna be up. So when he came to the Rebbe's home, he banged very loudly, and the Rebbe Maharash opened the door. "Oi," he says to him, "Shalom Aleichem, Reb Mordechai Ber." Now, the Rebbe says to him, Mordechai Ber was surprised. How does the Rebbe recognize him? But the Rebbe saw him the last time was thirty-five years ago when he was five years old, and it's, it was forty

05:19 Speaker 1 years have passed by, and the Rebbe Maharash, uh, recognized him right away. So the Rebbe Maharash says, "Who else can go ahead and bang in my door two o'clock in the morning if not Reb Mordechai Ber?" Um, it's very interesting that the Rebbe Rashab, who is the son of the Rebbe Maharash, refers to him as my son-in-law. He used to call Reb Mordechai Ber, notwithstanding the fact that Reb Mordechai Ber was, uh, much older than him because he was in the same age as the Rebbe Maharash, or he was, uh- Even older than Rabbi Marash perhaps. I'm not sure exactly because the Rabbi Marash was the seventh son of the Tsamach Tzedek and he was-

06:15 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

06:16 Speaker 1 The was earlier. I'm not sure exactly who's older, but he was definitely much older than the Rabbi Rashab. And the Rabbi Rashab called him my son-in-law. Why did he call him his son-in-law? Because it says like this, that one time the Rabbi Marash was looking for his son, and he found that he was sitting next to this Reb Motke Ber who used to come to Lubavitch, and Reb Motke Ber heard from his mother, Malca Rochel, all the stories about the Mitteler Rebbe and about the Alter Rebbe because that was her grandparents. So he knew a lot of history, and he knew a lot of family history, a lot of stories. And the, uh, Rabbi Rashab loved to hear the stories, so he would sit for hours and hours with Reb Motke Ber listening to family history and to family stories. And when the Rabbi Marash went looking for him, he was busy listening to Reb Motke Ber's stories about, uh, his, um, his family. So the Rabbi Marash sort of said to his son, "Did you take yourself a son-in-law on kess?" You know, in the olden days, it used to be a tradition that a father-in-law who can afford it-

07:32 Speaker 2 Support him

07:33 Speaker 1 ... would take a son-in-law. They used to call it kess, they used to call it.

07:36 Speaker 2 That's not a term.

07:37 Speaker 1 Kessy, kess. I don't know, I'm not sure exactly why. It would be interesting to look up the, the, the, the source of the word kess, where does it come. But kess means, basically means that an eidem means a son-in-law in Yiddish. He said, "an eidem of kess," meaning-

07:51 Speaker 2 I heard the word

07:52 Speaker 1 ... you took a son-in-law as to support, which means he's a whole-- An eidem on kess is free, and he owes the, he owes his father-in-law everything, so he has to give him. His father-in-law supports him, so he has to spend time with his, with his supporter.

08:07 Speaker 2 Right.

08:07 Speaker 1 So the fact that Reb Motke Ber, he was taking up all Reb Motke Ber's time. He was sitting and listening to the stories. He said, "What is he, your son-in-law that you took him on kess?"

08:15 Speaker 2 Oh.

08:15 Speaker 1 That you're sitting and you're, you're, you're... So the name, he called him his son-in-law. So once the Rebbe said son-in-law on him, he called him an eidem. He used to call him my eidem. So Reb Motke Ber became his eidem. And, um, it says that, um, his son, he had a son who we call Schneur Zalman. Uh, Schneur Zalman of Slonim. That was the son of Motke Ber. He used to call him my grandson, the Rabbi Rashab, because he's his son-in-law.

08:45 Speaker 2 Right.

08:45 Speaker 1 So his son becomes his grandson.

08:47 Speaker 2 Is this a common practice for them to support son-in-laws? I mean, today it's not a big common practice.

08:54 Speaker 1 Uh, in some communities it's somewhat, yes. It is somewhat. It's still in some communities. Unfortunately, with the downturn, with the economic downturn-

09:02 Speaker 2 Just the cost of living today

09:04 Speaker 1 ... it's become, uh, very, very difficult. And I know that there was a lot of... In some, in some, in some quarters, you know, the, the idea of a, of a student studying and for many years after the marriage, um, still, uh, still exists today, and that's why we have all the kollels and the different... The, the real name of kollel is, is a reference to the places where they sit and study-

09:25 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

09:25 Speaker 1 ... beyond, uh, the yeshiva, which means people, Avraham, once they get married, and they still continue their studies in the, in these places of study, in the kollels. And many of them, if they were outstanding students, and the father-in-law was looking for a scholar for his son-in-law, so he would pay for it. And part of the payment was-

09:46 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

09:47 Speaker 1 ... um, that he would support them. Now, a lot of times the wives work and, you know, people have various ideals, you know. And, you know, you can't tell people what's important, you know, in life. Now, in the Chabad, generally, not-- there is exceptions to every rule. But in generally, the idea is that you study during your, uh, years in the yeshiva. Uh, and then when you get married, you stay maybe for a year or two, and then you go out and you contribute something to the world from all of the, your studies. But it's not, um, um... We don't dedicate just sit and study the whole rest of your life. But we also need, the Jewish people need great scholars and need people to study all the time also.

10:33 Speaker 2 Yeah.

10:33 Speaker 1 So you have, you have that also. In general Chabad, we don't do that most, most of the time, most people. Perhaps if there's an outstanding scholar and an outstanding, sometimes maybe somebody deserving. I mean, in Israel, they're having problems now with that because it became sort of, um, everyone is doing it. Uh, some people are not really-- not everybody is really studying. Some people are just, uh, you know, uh, using that as an excuse not to go to work or to laze around, to drink-

11:03 Speaker 2 That's it

11:03 Speaker 1 ... to get handouts or other things.

11:05 Speaker 2 Yeah.

11:05 Speaker 1 But, you know, but, you know, we have to judge everybody fairly. But-

11:08 Speaker 2 But it's an overall thing

11:09 Speaker 1 ... there is a, there is a mind, mindset, certain women, when they get married, they want their husband to be a scholar.

11:17 Speaker 2 Right.

11:17 Speaker 1 And they're ready to go to work, and they're ready to live a modest life, and they're ready to... And they don't need much, and they don't want much, you know. At least that's what they think before they get married. I think sometimes they change their mind.

11:28 Speaker 2 This is the way of the world.

11:29 Speaker 1 Yes, sometimes, you know, they're very idealistic, you know, uh, and then later on. But still, there's-- that's very, very noble for some people. But, I mean, most commonly people want a good life and, uh-

11:42 Speaker 2 Yeah

11:42 Speaker 1 ... financial security, and they want their... But in, in, in, in many circles, and actually in the Haredi circles, it is common practice to, you know, get a son-in-law who's an outstanding scholar, and the in-laws, if they're well-to-do, uh, will support them. And now with the crash and the financial downturn-

12:03 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

12:03 Speaker 1 ... a lot of them got into big trouble because they, um, they promised, uh, to support and they couldn't no longer do it. They couldn't do it. It was a problem. But in any event-

12:13 Speaker 2 Interesting it's still relevant

12:15 Speaker 1 Yeah.

12:16 Speaker 3 All right.

12:17 Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, doesn't always happen. Okay, so that's one thing of, uh, the Beit Tevuot. Now, another thing, the next thing in the order is actually the fifth of Tevuot in Tu Bishvat, uh, which is in the, uh, 19th, uh, third-- 1940, right in the-

12:33 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm

12:34 Speaker 1 ... onset of the war. Uh, the war, and the Rebbe, uh, actually escaped to-

12:41 Speaker 3 Riga

12:41 Speaker 1 ... uh, to, to Riga, to Latvia from Poland, um, during the Second World War. He escaped, um, he escaped, uh, Poland, uh, Warsaw.

12:52 Speaker 3 He went from Warsaw to Berlin and then to Riga?

12:54 Speaker 1 Yes, absolutely. He went to Warsaw to Berlin.

12:57 Speaker 3 Yeah.

12:57 Speaker 1 And he actually reached, uh, Latvia, he actually reached, uh, that day, um-

13:03 Speaker 3 So I think we talked about that yesterday, right?

13:05 Speaker 1 Yeah.

13:06 Speaker 3 The day before we talked about it.

13:06 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

13:07 Speaker 3 Yeah.

13:07 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Now, the, uh, previous Rebbe writes in a letter describing the situation of the Jewish people, what's going on in Poland a little bit. And you see from the Rebbe's letter that he really had no idea, the world had no idea yet, or maybe it hasn't started yet at the time. They hadn't started the systematic extermination of the Jewish people. Immediately, when did it start? In the, the-

13:36 Speaker 3 It's-- Actually, I was watching something last night. Uh, the, the concentration camps were, uh, in, in the 1934, 1935, right? 'Cause this weekend celebrates Kristallnacht.

13:47 Speaker 1 Yeah, but 19-

13:48 Speaker 3 Right?

13:48 Speaker 1 Yeah, so when was that?

13:49 Speaker 3 So, but Kristallnacht was in 1933.

13:51 Speaker 1 Yeah.

13:52 Speaker 3 But they, but the, they actually start moving Jews and people out with, in Germany in the middle '30s. They were starting to round them up. But the mass, the mass slaughter started when they entered Poland, because there were so many Jews, they didn't know what to do with them all.

14:06 Speaker 1 Okay. So here, this is what we're reading now, but you see from the Rebbe's letter, I'm gonna read a little bit of the Rebbe's letter now.

14:12 Speaker 3 Okay.

14:12 Speaker 1 You can see that the, um, the full devastation, the full savagery of all the-- what was transpiring wasn't yet at that point. Because even though the Rebbe-- This is what the Rebbe writes, um, and the Rebbe writes... This is dated on the fifth day of Tevet that he came to, to Riga in Tu Bishvat in, uh, in, in 1940. And he writes a letter, a public letter to the Jewish people all over. He writes a letter. He says, "I came today, thank God, from Warsaw." And he says, "I'm hereby going to fulfill the request of many of our brothers and sisters who live in Poland to extend to you greetings from them, and also a request f- to our brothers and sisters in all the diaspora, all over the, the Jewish world." He says, "It's undescribable what is going-- what is happening to our brethren during this war in the, uh, in, in, in, in, in Poland in general, especially in the days of the siege of Warsaw. Uh, it's something which is beyond words. Um, many were killed from bullets, many were burned alive. Most-- Many homes became the graves when their whole houses fell-

15:35 Speaker 3 Right

15:35 Speaker 1 ... destroyed right on top of them, and the people did not get a chance to run away. Many were wounded, devastated wounds, lo- losing, losing, uh, becoming, uh, handicapped for the rest of their lives. Blind, deaf, uh, hands cut down, uh, legs cut. Emotionally, people got sick, terribly emotionally. And, um, elders, youngers, women, children, everybody is just undescribable. The financial situation of the Jewish people is terrible. It's terrible the, the, the, the-- how poor and how destitute they are. It's-- Even before the war they were, uh, destitute. But now because of the war, all sources of livelihood, of earning money has sort of closed down. And most of the merchants and even the wealthy people amongst the Jewish people became totally poor without any, any funds. Hunger and, um, and the, the, the, the destitutes are everywhere. My hope is," the Rebbe says, "that all Jewish men and women amongst the Jewish people, the people of the God of Abraham, will realize the situation, and people will separate and give tzedakah, give money to support our brothers and sisters who have been totally oppressed in Poland. May Hashem have mercy on them." So from this letter, you actually see that they did not yet-

17:20 Speaker 3 That letter was circulated in Washington.

17:22 Speaker 1 What?

17:22 Speaker 3 Washington got a copy of that.

17:24 Speaker 1 That letter.

17:25 Speaker 3 But based on intelligence, they figured, and there was no CIA back then, is that the Germans were such a civil people that they could never do things that they were-- said they were doing, that people said were happening.

17:39 Speaker 1 But in this case-

17:39 Speaker 3 Based on intelligence

17:40 Speaker 1 ... but what he was saying, yeah. But over here, what they're talking about is before the roundup and the systematic extermination of the Jewish people.

17:47 Speaker 3 No, no, no. But this whole-

17:47 Speaker 1 They're talking about just the bombardment, when the Germans were bombarding and putting a siege.

17:51 Speaker 3 Okay.

17:51 Speaker 1 That was a, uh, uh, a side effect of the war. That was, uh, because-

17:56 Speaker 3 No, no, but don't get... It was only 30 days till they took over the whole country.

17:59 Speaker 1 Yeah.

18:00 Speaker 3 They just walked in-

18:01 Speaker 1 Which, which, which day was it that they actually took over the country, that, that-

18:04 Speaker 3 September 1st, I believe. What-

18:06 Speaker 1 The fifth of Tevet was December 17 in 1939.

18:11 Speaker 3 Right.

18:11 Speaker 1 That was the letter was. And that was-

18:13 Speaker 3 September 1st, they-

18:14 Speaker 1 And this was already what?

18:15 Speaker 3 September 1st they-

18:16 Speaker 1 So September was already overrun at that time.

18:18 Speaker 3 September 1st, yeah. But I, I-

18:20 Speaker 1 Because a few days before, in December- This was the fifth of Teves, but then the second of Teves, that was three days before, beis, gimmel, daled, he. Four days earlier, they had taken him out of Warsaw and brought him to Berlin.

18:34 Speaker 3 September 1st, 1939, and it took them one month and five days to take over the country.

18:43 Speaker 1 So September and October.

18:45 Speaker 3 October. October the 6th, 1939, it was, it was all over.

18:51 Speaker 1 Okay.

18:51 Speaker 3 Then they start rounding up.

18:52 Speaker 1 Okay. So but apparently-- So this was right then.

18:55 Speaker 3 During the round up.

18:55 Speaker 1 October and December, and the Rebe-- that's exactly when the Rebbe escaped.

18:59 Speaker 3 Right.

18:59 Speaker 1 And that's exactly-

19:01 Speaker 3 Right.

19:01 Speaker 1 Wow. Just to sum this up, it seems like that it was right in the-- right then and there-

19:09 Speaker 3 Oh, yeah

19:09 Speaker 1 ... right then and there when they were starting to round up the Jewish people. And, uh-

19:14 Speaker 3 They were joining them

19:15 Speaker 1 ... but in the Rebbe's, in the Rebbe's letter, you don't see that yet over there.

19:19 Speaker 3 Not there.

19:19 Speaker 1 They didn't know. That wasn't yet known to them. Over there, he's just talking about the general devastation of the war and of, of their situation. Now, to a little bit happier news, uh, into the main, and finally that's-- we're talking about the fifth day of Teves of Taf Shin Mem Zayin. Um, talking about the fifth of Teves, so that's January sixth, 1987. Now, that was the day, as we've already mentioned several times, in which the judge and the courts, uh, uh, ruled, the judge ruled that the books belong to Agudas Chasidei Chabad. It belongs to the Chabad organization. It's not a private collection, and he ordered that all the books that were taken should be returned. Now, here's a little bit of, uh, history, what took place. The, um, the trial began a year before in 19...

20:18 Speaker 3 Eighty-- A year before is '86.

20:20 Speaker 1 It was 1986. It was the ni-- in Yut Tes Kislev, on the nineteenth day of Kislev in Taf Shin Mem Vav. That is when it started in front, in front of a judge called Charles Simpton. He was the judge in the case. The trial took three weeks. After the three weeks, the trial itself, there was a period that they would-- they brought all documents, supporting documents. That ended on the day of the tenth of Shevat, Taf Shin Mem Vav. These are all very special days. One is Yut Tes Kislev. You see the date that it started is the nineteenth day of Kislev, which is a holiday that the Alter, the Alter Rebbe, the, uh, Rashab was freed from prison. The, uh, end of this docu-- the end of the, the period of bringing the documents was the tenth of Shevat, which was the day of the yahrtzeit of the previous Lubavitcher Rebbe. On the fifth day, on the fifth day and of, uh, Taf Shin Mem Zayin, on Heh Teves, the fifth day of Tevet, Taf Shin Mem Zayin, the judge announced his decision, his decision.

21:29 Speaker 3 Was this in federal court?

21:31 Speaker 1 Yes. I believe so.

21:35 Speaker 3 Okay.

21:36 Speaker 1 And he, he announced, the judge, the ruling is, and the ruling took up forty pages of his ruling. The judge accepted the argument of Agudas Chasidei Chabad, which is the umbrella organization representing Chabad, that the entire life of the previous Rebbe were dedicated and devoted for the community. And he ruled in his, uh, in his ruling that the library is a public library, and it belongs to Agudas Chasidei Chabad, Chabad, to the general umbrella organization of Chabad. And the person is guilty, has to immediately return all the books and all the objects which he has taken without permission. He has to bring them back.

22:29 Speaker 3 We're, we're suing who now on this?

22:31 Speaker 1 His grand... This was the-

22:33 Speaker 3 The nephew or was that-

22:33 Speaker 1 The nephew.

22:34 Speaker 3 Okay. Gurary.

22:34 Speaker 1 The nephew. Gurary.

22:35 Speaker 3 Gurary. Okay.

22:36 Speaker 1 Barry Gurary.

22:37 Speaker 3 Was that his father, the one we saw at the cemetery?

22:40 Speaker 1 Yes. Yes.

22:41 Speaker 3 Okay.

22:41 Speaker 1 The Rashab, that's his father, Rashab Gurary.

22:44 Speaker 3 Next to the, next to the oval.

22:45 Speaker 1 That's right.

22:45 Speaker 3 Okay.

22:46 Speaker 1 That's right. Now, this is what the, uh, conclusion that the judge writes in his, in his letter, in his ruling. He says, "After listening to the testimony in this case, and after looking into the documentation, the many proofs and the evidence that was presented by both sides, I've come to the conclusion that this library was not a personal asset of the Rebbe, Friediker Rebbe, Yosef Yitzchak Schneersohn, at the time of his passing." And that's in, in such, so the, uh, other arguments is null against it because there is no, uh, question that outside of an inheritance, the other side has no claims to the books. Their only claim is that they get it as inheritance. So Agudas Chasidei Chabad, which is the umbrella organization, has the, uh, full, uh, victory, and they have the full rights to demand that all the property that was taken should be brought back. Now, this was, uh, something that the Rebbe took very to heart, and the Rebbe was very, very upset about it. So it wasn't just about fighting for a library, but for the Chassidim and for the Rebbe, it was the Rebbe's-

24:12 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm

24:13 Speaker 1 ... the Rebbe's honor and the Rebbe's, uh, wishes and the Rebbe's... And besides the spiritual, uh, you know, meaning of it, of all these, uh, heritage and, uh, uh, for many generation. So the news of the victory, uh, spread out very, very quickly throughout the world, and everywhere that they heard about this, the victory, it became a major day of joy and happiness for all the Chassidim. Many thousands went out into the streets, and they were singing and dancing all day. But the main place of the joy was actually in Seven seventy, in Beis Chayenu, where thousands ga-gathered, and they celebrated the great victory. The, uh, climax of the joy was when the Rebbe, after Mincha, in the Davened Mincha, the big shul, usually he didn't always daven during the regular...

25:15 Speaker 1 On the holidays, we Davening the big shul, but otherwise, he would Davening upstairs. But when there was a big crowd, he would go downstairs. Downstairs. Downstairs. Downstairs. Downstairs versus the upstairs shul. Oh, there's one upstairs too? Yeah. We-- I showed you through the room over there, the upstairs, the upstairs room seventy. Not the first floor, the main floor. You know, we saw the Rebbe's room. Yeah. So there is a shul over there and the, uh- Oh. The Davening. Oh, okay. Yeah. That little... Oh, oh. Further. So he used to go in there. On the weekdays when it was quiet during the Mincha, Ma'ariv- Oh ... he would Davening over there. Oh, okay. Also for when there was Torah reading. Now, so, so what happened was he went down to the big shul, and they Davened, uh, the Mincha with a, uh, festive tunes, the tunes of the holidays. And after the Davening, the Rebbe started to give a special talk. And the Rebbe-- amongst other things, the Rebbe said that at the time of the incarceration and the freedom of the Alter Rebbe, um, still the one who was rejoicing in the redemption, he learned from everything that took place an instruction in the service of God. He didn't just take this as a, just as a victory, but it meant and it had a, a message, it had a lesson for what to take out in God's service. And one of the lessons that he took was that he needs to add with more

26:43 Speaker 1 force spreading the wellsprings. This is the teaching of Hasidism to the outside, to the public. So taking that into consideration, it is very clear what is the instruction, the internal inst-- godly instruction to what do we need to take from what happened over here, the freedom and the victory. That it's specifically one of the arguments and one of the complaints was from the other side is that Agudas HaChabad isn't a functioning, a viable organization that is doing, that is really active. Um, that means these arguments tell us that we should now learn to strengthen even more, spreading out the teaches of-- the teachings of our teach-- of our Rebbes, and to learn it publicly and individually with great joy and with great excitement, with joy that would break through all the boundaries. This joy continued also the following days. For seven days, the Rebbe would say each day a special talk he would give following that. And those days are sort of called like the Shivas Yemei Hamishnah. Just like my wedding, after the wedding, you have seven days of celebration. Yeah. It was like the seven days of celebration of the return of the victory of the book. So the day of fifth of Teves has been set for a day of a festival called the Dan Notzach, which is the words of the Midrash, "Ours war was victorious." That we were victory that we're able to regain the ownership of the book, which is the victory of the light over darkness, people trying

28:27 Speaker 1 to take away, and this is the victory of the light over darkness. And as we already learned, that later on, this was already-- this was challenged. The verdict was challenged in court. Oh, it was. And then it was confirmed again. But then they didn't make already a whole- So they get the books back. Yeah, but they, they-- the other people appealed. They didn't, they didn't- Oh, what happened? The other side appealed this ruling, and they lost on the appeal again. But the second time when they lost on the appeal, uh, and the books actually came back- Oh, wow ... and everything was brought in, um, the Rebbe said not to, uh, not to make, uh- To sue anymore. No, not to make a lot of noise about it and just to, just... The Rebbe was kind of, uh- Well- Uh, kind of actually upset when the people were wasting time from study and then doing things and then-- and the Rebbe said, you know, "That's enough." And this celebration remained mainly on the fifth day of Teves. Yeah. What were you saying? So, so what I'm saying is initially they went to the religious court, and they couldn't establish- They never-- this never went to the religious court- Oh, never ... because people would not abide by the religious court. Cases that are not, uh, that are not, uh, uh, able to be edu-- properly educated by the, uh, adjudicated by the rabbinical court go to the, uh- They go right to civil court. Yeah.

29:48 Speaker 1 Uh, in order to go to a Beth Din, you know, both parties have to- Agree ... agree and wanna accept the Beth Din, and that's, you know, was kinda hard. Now, our Beth Din unfortunately doesn't have that much teeth. Um, you know, they can't enforce and they can't, uh- No, no, no, no ... and, um, it's hard to find a, a Beth Din to undertake a case like that. So this wouldn't be- Isn't it an embarrassment to go to civil court to deal with a religious issue? It's not only an embarrassment, it's, it's against Halakha in cases. But, um, when, when we have to save... Uh, justice is very, very important in the Torah. To do justice and to do what's right is very, very important. If you have to do justice, which means if somebody's trying to steal something from you and take away from you, it's very important, and it's Halakhically, uh, sound to go ahead and protect the one who is being robbed from someone. You know, there's a lot of times there's various different manipulation and tactics and delay tactics of not to bring about fear and what's right. And, uh, and therefore, in these cases, to help bring back property from, uh, what is rightfully, um- Once it's not only, uh, allowed, it's a mitzvah to go to court to get it back to them. Now, the question is, who says that you're right? You know, that's only by assuming that they're right. I mean, I think in this case

31:18 Speaker 1 you had a individual versus a whole organization. Yeah. And it's really, um, anyone with a, uh, little bit of, uh, secular sensitivity would realize that you can't take away... You know, the Rebbe is the heir to the Chabad movement, and the previous Rebbe was the Rebbe of the Chabad movement. And for anybody to deny that or try to s- say that there is something, um, person- personal here, that would be, um, going against, you know, simple logic and- The courts don't like dealing with religious issues. They feel very uncomfortable with them. Yeah, sometime, but yeah. But sometimes they- This wasn't a religious issue. Well, it was a religious- This was a question of ownership ... ownership. Yeah. This was ownership. Who- And the courts w- Who does it belong to? Now, also, um, this Barry had an axe to grind from way back. Obviously. He never, uh, he never accepted the Rebbe. So to him, uh, he, he, he found a, an opportunity now to cause trouble. Again, I'm not sure what motivated him. Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure whether it was just purely financial. Maybe he was just out for the money. I don't know. Could be. Uh, but the money he spent- Of course ... and the money it cost him, he would've probably, uh, asked to give him what it cost. They would probably give him some money and, uh, and then he wouldn't have to go steal and take all this stuff. Again, I'm not familiar exactly- No, I

32:56 Speaker 1 don't even know. It's just- ... what, what, what motivated what went on over there. You never know what motivates people. But I'm saying general principle we need to know. Of course, one has to go to a Beth Din and one... But the very, as much important principle is it's the Torah wants that there should be justice. The Torah wants that people who commit crimes and people that take something that doesn't belong to them, that we should as swiftly and as promptly give it back to the rightful owners. That is Halakha. So it's not- So that's where constitutional law comes in- Yeah ... based on that principle. That's right. So we want, we want-- The Torah doesn't want people to, uh, lo- end up losing because they have to go to the court. The Beth Din is not meant as a means of causing people hardship, but it's meant to- Justice ... justice. And if justice cannot be served, like in cases that the Beth Din can't handle, then it is a mitzvah to go ahead and- Right ... try to get what belongs to you, uh, because that really belongs. And in this case, we w- this wasn't a personal matter. We were trying to get back to the organization what is rightfully theirs.