החיים הנפלאים שהחסידות מציעה – הרב אריה גורביץ'

00:00 Speaker 1 Yiddishkeit is supposed to be good for you, and that is the position of Torah Chassidus.

00:04 Speaker 2 Right.

00:04 Speaker 1 You know, that is the position of the ultimate truth of the latest Tekufa, you know, Sheftim Ha'Alef and, and other places, like, your life is supposed to be awesome. Uh, and frum awesome, you know? Frum greatness. It's... Being frum should mean... And, and this is really the way Yiddishkeit was presented to me at the very beginning. Uh, the, the Jewish way of doing marriage is better than the secular way of doing marriage. The Jewish approach to parnasah is gonna be more successful than the non-Jewish approach to parnasah, if there is... There's not one non-Jewish approach.

00:33 Speaker 2 Right.

00:33 Speaker 1 You know what I'm saying? But the, the point is when you follow this approach, it's supposed to be very good for you.

00:37 Speaker 2 Right. You know when you're at a good toifn di gefar bringen and you wish it was being recorded? Welcome to Spreading the Springs: Conversations in Chassidus, a podcast far bringen where we have real conversations about real Chassidus. Welcome.

01:00 Speaker 1 Thank you so much.

01:00 Speaker 2 I'm sitting here with Rabbi Aryeh Garwitz. Um, the way we know each other is we work together in Bach Yeshiva, Ocean Parkway.

01:10 Speaker 1 Yep.

01:10 Speaker 2 Curriculum director, student progress, and that's your position, and I'm a teacher, and I, uh, help you out with the curriculum.

01:20 Speaker 1 Turn a Rosh Mesivta.

01:21 Speaker 2 Uh, yeah, exactly. And the... But there's a lot more to your story, so let's start with that. What's your story?

01:33 Speaker 1 Um, so the... I, I guess the story in terms of, like, how it relates to applying Chassidus?

01:38 Speaker 2 Yeah.

01:39 Speaker 1 Um, so my story is, um, I grew up in Florida, um, went to a Reform Hebrew school, and, you know, the... I grew up in a very Jewish area, but there wasn't a lot of, like, exposure, at least for me, to Torah, to Orthodox Judaism, to definitely not to Chassidus or Chabad. Maybe there was Chabad there, but I didn't know about it at that time. Um, I first started to learn about, uh, you know, traditional Orthodox Judaism, or what I was told used to exist. You know, that's the way they talk about it growing up. It's like, "It used to be that when you needed to daven, that you would have to get together 10 people to make a minyan," you know? "And it used to be that they pronounced, uh, patach and kamatz as two different, uh, two different sounds."

02:24 Speaker 2 Oh.

02:24 Speaker 1 You know, stuff like that. So Orthodox Judaism was really not on my radar. Um, but I was always interested in Judaism, and I was always philosophically minded, I would say. I always wanted to learn, like, the wisdom. I was never into, uh, you know, back then, I was never into, "Okay, let's all hang out together because we're Jewish," like Jewish community or, like, Israel even, or, like, that kind of stuff. I was into, like, if there's wisdom in Judaism, then I'm interested in that.

02:48 Speaker 2 Hmm.

02:49 Speaker 1 And where that led me was when I got to college, I went... Pretty much the first week that I was on campus, I went to a Jewish activities fair, and, um, there was something called the Maimonides Leaders Fellowship, and I was like, "Oh, Maimonides, I've heard of that guy. Maimonides Medical Center, that's where I was born. You know, my, my Reform rabbi said something about Maimonides by my bar mitzvah." You know, so I was like, "Maimonides, maybe that's something I wanna look at." Um, and it turned out that that was the Litvish Kiruv program, which I joined.

03:15 Speaker 2 Hmm.

03:15 Speaker 1 Um, it was absolutely amazing, and basically a year, like less than a year later, I felt like I was ready to go. I was ready to start keeping Shabbos. Like, it, it was, it was that amazing for me. Um, and my, my second year in college, um, I had already been... I went on a Birthright trip that summer before my second year of college. I put on tefillin by the Chrysler, so that was my first encounter with Chabad, if I'm rem-remembering correctly. And the shliach there says, uh, "So you go to University of Pennsylvania, you must know Levi Yoskowitz." I'm like, "Whoa, this guy on the other side of the world knows the name of the rabbi on my campus. I barely know..." I heard his name maybe once. You know, a friend told me about him. Um, and so I was like, "Okay, I guess I'm gonna have to go meet him properly if this rabbi on the other side of the world knows who he is," you know? Um, so my sophomore year, second year of college, I, I went and I, I wanted to start keeping Shabbos, and I didn't really know how to keep Shabbos, but I was like, "I wanna be going to Shabbos meals and, and, uh, whatever." And then it was gonna be Tishrei, and there's gonna be three-day Yomim Tovim, and I'm like, "Well, it doesn't make sense to keep Shabbos and not Yom Tov, so I guess I need somewhere to be for, for Tishrei." And

04:29 Speaker 1 that was how I really started spending time at the Chabad house, um, because it was right there on campus. And, uh, so that was where I spent Tishrei, and I started becoming close with Levi Yoskowitz, and he started spending a lot of time with me and answering a lot of my questions, um, answering them very well. And so for a while, I was kind of in this in-between zone between the Litvish Kiruv and, and Chabad. Um, obviously I ended up here. So, uh, I, I would say a big part of what drew me in, I mean, this we could talk for an hour about this by itself, but, uh, a big part of what I would say drew me to Chabad was the idea that there's kind of this higher spiritual reality, and we wanna be aligned with that. Whether that meant in maaseh b'pnim, so, like, for example, the fact that we wear tzitzit when we go to sleep is not something that the Pashtus halpin ikar that you would need to do, although now I've read reasons why it's a good thing halpin ikar also because you wake up in the morning-

05:23 Speaker 2 Right

05:23 Speaker 1 ... right? Um, you know, it used to be the yefteich aina before elokai neshama, so you could put on tzitzit after you wake up. So there's a ma'alah of doing halpin ikar, but the way I understood it at, at that time, it was something that, this is something that Rizol says to do.

05:34 Speaker 2 Right.

05:35 Speaker 1 So there's, like, a spiritual reason for doing it, so I'm like, "Okay, if there's, if the Rizol sees or knows about or however he knows what he knows, you know, uh, that there's some kind of reason to wear tzitzit when you go to sleep, then, like, I wanna do that." And the same thing is true not only in maaseh b'pnim, but also in, in midot, you know? And, and I mean, it's one thing not to get angry because it's not a good midah. It's another thing not to get angry because the thing happened to you because Hashem made it happen to you, and Hashem loves you, so He's actually delivering to you a good thing, so why are you getting angry about it?

06:07 Speaker 2 Right.

06:08 Speaker 1 Um, also the idea of having a rabbi, an idea of there being someone that is giving you direction based on this higher understanding, based on whatever type of communication he has with Hashem that the rest of us don't have.

06:20 Speaker 3 Right.

06:21 Speaker 1 You know? Um, so that was really a big part of how I started shifting in that direction.

06:25 Speaker 3 Of Chassidus.

06:26 Speaker 1 Yeah.

06:27 Speaker 3 So, like the depth of, the depth of Yiddishkeit, in a sense. Like you're saying b-b-- like both in the philosophy and in understanding and the middos and the Ma'aseh Avot, the depth, let's say, of the Ma'aseh Avot.

06:40 Speaker 1 Yeah. I, I mean, I would say there was a lot of depth in what I experienced from the Litvish kiruv also, but it was a different type of depth, which I also valued very much, um, and which still has an impact on me until today. But it was m-- I, I would say it was more a depth of, like, wisdom of living a good life in this world. Like what a good marriage looks like, you know? Um, real personal growth. Um, I, I think they have a, a lot to offer in those areas. Um, but I'm referring with this that, that drew me to Chassidus more to like the spiritual depth. Like there's-

07:09 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm

07:09 Speaker 1 ...an actual spiritual realm. There's like more to reality than, than meets the eye.

07:14 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

07:15 Speaker 1 You know? And, and we wanna be aligned with that. We wanna grow in our awareness of that, our understanding of that, and live our lives like that, you know, in, in accordance with that.

07:23 Speaker 3 Right. So in other words, like let's say in Chassidus, we know that there's the, the, um, the, the part of Chassidus that discusses, um, philosophy, hakirah, depth, basically. And then there's the part of Chassidus that talks about Elokus. So in other words, you're saying that it was the... You know, you could, you could have a lot of philosophy. Uh, you, you know, you have philosophy in, in Rishonim also. You know, you have, you have hakirah from... Not, that's not Chassidus per se. What Chassidus, Chabad came to add for that was the connection of Elokus with hakirah. In other words, the, the hakirah of Elokus, the limud, the, the learning and the, and understanding and the depth of Hashem, of another reality that, like, not a philosophy that's based on something that we could essentially talk about and pinpoint, and then just understand it on a de- on a deeper level and cultivate it, but, uh, understanding and a depth that's on something that might be inherently not palpable, not tangible, Hashem, but then making it real, making it, uh, discovering it-

08:28 Speaker 1 Exactly

08:28 Speaker 3 ...and really, uh-

08:29 Speaker 1 Yeah.

08:30 Speaker 3 Okay. That's, uh, that's, that's, that sounds like a very-

08:32 Speaker 1 Does that make sense with how you know me?

08:34 Speaker 3 Uh, y- well, oh, with how I know you for sure. But, uh, but it's, it's, uh, it, it sounds-- It makes sense also in terms of what Chassidus officially came to give us. In other words-

08:45 Speaker 1 Right

08:45 Speaker 3 ...it's like your, your discovery of Chassidus sounds like what we're all supposed to have in Chassidus. You know what I mean? Like, this is like-

08:52 Speaker 1 Yeah.

08:53 Speaker 3 ...like this is what we're supposed to be, uh, un... Like this is what s- uh, learning Chassidus is supposed to be different than learning, you know, Gemara for sure, but even, let's say, um, let's say hakirah. Let's say a person is pandering in, uh, in, uh, Kuzari or, or Mernebuch or Chejas.

09:11 Speaker 1 Right.

09:12 Speaker 3 The... And, and, and, and obviously not to say Chas V'Shalom that Mernebuch is not talking about Hashem, but it's not y-- I don't think you have to say that it's the primary focus. Let's say Mernebuch per se, it's, uh, talking about Torah, it's talking about mitzvahs, talking about the, the reason behind the mitzvahs. So obviously it relates back to Hashem. Chassidus, we're, we're literally talking about Hashem. That's, that's, that's the, that's the topic.

09:35 Speaker 1 Right.

09:35 Speaker 3 Um, we're, we might be using words of atsilus, of ach, of kesar, whatever, but it's talking about Hashem. It's talking about Hashem's f- uh, energy coming down into this world in one way or another.

09:44 Speaker 1 Right.

09:44 Speaker 3 And so it's technically a very abstract concept. It's not starting from the point of the person's life and the person's fulfillment.

09:51 Speaker 1 Right.

09:51 Speaker 3 Even of mitzvahs.

09:52 Speaker 1 Right.

09:52 Speaker 3 We're starting from Hashem and then his connection-

09:56 Speaker 1 Right

09:56 Speaker 3 ...to it. Um-

09:57 Speaker 1 It's like, "Da asa l'cha v'avdecha v'avdei v'lei shalom." You know? It starts with this knowledge of God, and then you bring that down.

10:02 Speaker 3 Exactly. So that-

10:03 Speaker 1 That whole story about the Hayom Hayom Havav Teves, which was my son's birthday.

10:07 Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

10:07 Speaker 1 But it basically says that, like, as much as we're learning, like in Yanim Naylim and Velokus, but the point is ultimately for you to feel connected to Hashem and you to improve your middos through this deep knowledge of even things like the Kav and the ReShuM and the, or in essentially Netzimtzim and stuff like that. You know? Like that's supposed to affect you as a person.

10:23 Speaker 3 Right.

10:24 Speaker 1 That, that I think is unique to Chassidus or maybe other... Maybe you could say that about also people who are learning Kabbalah. Um, but, but yeah, that concept that there's a spiritual reality, there's knowledge of Hashem to be had, and then we're gonna base everything on that.

10:38 Speaker 3 And, and then the punchline is to make it real in your life. Because it c- we could be talking about spiritual reality that has nothing to do with your life.

10:44 Speaker 1 Right.

10:44 Speaker 3 The Chassidus, Chassidus that as much as you're gonna learn the sp- the, the spiritual reality, now the eye-opening moment or moments-

10:51 Speaker 1 Right, right, right

10:51 Speaker 3 ...that it's your reality.

10:52 Speaker 1 Right.

10:52 Speaker 3 Yeah, and you have to make it your reality.

10:53 Speaker 1 Right. One of the biggest things that influenced me early on, if I would point to like a few things I learned in, in Chassidus, like I was learning the Chassidic Heritage series, my Maran from Chassid, these English ones that they put out.

11:03 Speaker 3 Right.

11:04 Speaker 1 Um, one of the ones that really influenced me, that was actually Kuntrez HaTefilah, wh-which people find interesting 'cause Kuntrez HaTefilah is kind of like this... It gets into all these technicalities-

11:12 Speaker 3 Yeah

11:12 Speaker 1 ...about the right way to be Misbonen and the wrong way to be Misbonen and, and, you know, it's hard to even like keep up with like all the different wrong ways of Misbonenus that it talks about. I was just looking at it before you came 'cause I was just th-thinking about it and being reminded of it. Um, but, but what stuck with me is like the overall message of like, it's really, really important that you actually connect yourself with this and align yourself with it, and there's changes in your emotions that go with that. There's a way of living that aligns with it, and there's a way of living that doesn't align with it. So whether I understood all the types of Prate Hisbonenus there, but that's one place where you see the message very strongly. And, uh, and it's from the Rabbi Rashab, which I, I think a lot of Bachur and Yeshiva associate the Rabbi Rashab with a lot of Hascala.

11:51 Speaker 3 Right.

11:52 Speaker 1 Um, but then you have the Kuntrez with the Rabbi Rashab, which really Kuntrez HaTefilah is like, basically it starts off saying that, "Okay, you have all these Mimarim and you're wondering what you're supposed to do with them."

12:01 Speaker 3 Right.

12:01 Speaker 1 You know?

12:01 Speaker 3 He says that people feel that they're, that they're learning a lot, but it's not helping them in their actual davening, right? He says that.

12:07 Speaker 1 Right.

12:07 Speaker 3 Yeah.

12:07 Speaker 1 Right, right. And Kuntrez HaTefilah is about bridging that gap. So I learned it... I, I didn't, I don't... I wouldn't say I started davening the way Kuntrez HaTefilah says to daven, but I got the message that the whole point of this is To align yourself with it, to change because of it.

12:19 Speaker 3 Wow.

12:19 Speaker 1 So that was, like, a very important hanacha for me early on about, like, what Chabad is about.

12:24 Speaker 3 Right. So let, let's go back to your story. So when... So you start learning Chassidus, you're still in college?

12:29 Speaker 1 Yeah.

12:30 Speaker 3 Um, I guess with Rabbi Chaskelovich or by yourself, whatever you could, uh, come across.

12:35 Speaker 1 Yeah. I, I mean, he, he gave me a lot of time, and, um, I also got, like, Chayenu. Um, I think it was Tof Shen Ayin Beis, and Chayenu was printing these little pieces of, of Ayin Beis in English.

12:47 Speaker 3 Mm.

12:47 Speaker 1 So I'm learning Ayin Beis in English. Um, you know, he would give shiurim, and he would spend a lot of time answering my questions and stuff. And I actually started making chavruses with people at a, at a certain point. I, I would say... Uh, it's funny, this is like the work of just like a disha. There was a certain, like, extracurricular thing that I was involved with for 20 hours a week-

13:04 Speaker 3 Yeah

13:05 Speaker 1 ... for about a year, and it was, like, a commitment. So, like, I resented it, but I didn't quit it because officially I committed to it. And then afterwards, I was like, "Okay, if I could spend 20 hours a week on that, I could spend 20 hours a week on, on learning Torah, learning Chassidus, whatever it is."

13:18 Speaker 3 Yeah.

13:18 Speaker 1 So I got to a point where I was, like, learning with, like, I would say, like, 10 to 13 chavruses, like, an hour a week Chassidus just 'cause I had to, like, spread the word, you know?

13:27 Speaker 3 Uh-huh. Oh, you're saying, like, fellow c- students?

13:29 Speaker 1 Yeah.

13:29 Speaker 3 Oh, wow.

13:30 Speaker 1 Yeah.

13:31 Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

13:32 Speaker 1 Uh-

13:32 Speaker 3 And you were teaching that?

13:33 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

13:33 Speaker 3 Yeah.

13:33 Speaker 1 At, at a certain point.

13:34 Speaker 3 Right.

13:34 Speaker 1 I'm saying this wasn't, like, day one, but it was like, if you know Aleph, teach Aleph, you know?

13:37 Speaker 3 Right.

13:38 Speaker 1 It was so, it was so obvious to me that we have to, like, spread the word about this 'cause it, it just changed my life, you know?

13:43 Speaker 3 Wow. Were you, were you, like-

13:44 Speaker 1 So it was like there were the modern Orthodox students there. So, like, I remember one guy, we had a chavrusa called Tanya and Tangents 'cause we would start with Tanya, but then we would discuss, like, whatever. Or, like, I would try to find things like, uh, if there was a guy who was thinking of marrying his non-Jewish girlfriend, I would learn with him like Mitzvos Assos Yisroel from the Sanhedrin in English.

14:01 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

14:01 Speaker 1 You know, to try to get him to see, like, the, the Jewish neshamah, you know, stuff like that.

14:06 Speaker 3 Yeah.

14:06 Speaker 1 I would try to find, like, what's something that, oh, this guy was into... There was a statistics professor who was into Midrashim, like, he would just sit and learn Midrash. And I'm like, "No, but you gotta understand how deep the Midrash is." So I learned with him Birkei Moshiach also, and he was, like, blown away- ... by the way the rabbi, like, goes so deep into the, like, three different ways of explaining that Midrash, you know?

14:23 Speaker 3 Right.

14:23 Speaker 1 He's, like, used to just reading the Midrash in order.

14:25 Speaker 3 Right. W- w- how did you know all this by then? Like, how did you know that there was a Birkei Moshiach also that talked about a Midrash?

14:32 Speaker 1 It was whatever was available in English, pretty much.

14:34 Speaker 3 Wow.

14:35 Speaker 1 The, the Sichos in English has a Chassidic treasure chest, uh, version of that: Majmer.

14:38 Speaker 3 Right.

14:39 Speaker 1 Um-

14:39 Speaker 3 So you're learning on your own time, and then you find something, then you're like, "Okay, I could, I could, I could pass this on to s- this person."

14:45 Speaker 1 Yeah, pretty much.

14:46 Speaker 3 Wow. You, you... At this point, you're frum.

14:47 Speaker 1 I, I'm sure that I... Yeah. I, I became frum, like, pretty quickly. I mean, I... My second year of college. This is all over, like, a three and a half year span when I was in college.

14:57 Speaker 3 Mm. Okay.

14:58 Speaker 1 So I'm not necessarily saying every detail in order, but-

15:00 Speaker 3 Right. Okay

15:01 Speaker 1 ... um, but yeah, I pretty much became frum my second year. Um, I, I took things on over time with kashrus and, like, different stuff. But, like, Shabbos, let's say, was from, from, uh, the beginning of my second year of college, so.

15:17 Speaker 3 Wow. So you literally became frum and started teaching Chassidus right away. Like

15:20 Speaker 1 Pretty much. Uh, something like that. I don't remember the exact timeline, but yeah, there's actually-

15:24 Speaker 3 That's great

15:25 Speaker 1 ... like, a work study program where you could pay some of your tuition by working. So officially, I worked for the Chabad. I was teaching Chassidus. I was like-

15:31 Speaker 3 Wow

15:31 Speaker 1 ... I think that was only the last year that I was officially, like, a, a thing.

15:34 Speaker 3 So you were already on college l'chatchilah at this point in your life.

15:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

15:37 Speaker 3 Yeah. Like-

15:38 Speaker 1 It wa- it was, like, so self-evident to me that, like, that's what I was gonna do with my life. Like-

15:42 Speaker 3 Campus l'chatchilah.

15:43 Speaker 1 Yeah. Or, or not necessarily campus l'chatchilah, but, but some form of spreading the word about Chassidus-

15:48 Speaker 3 Oh, okay

15:49 Speaker 1 ... and, and Yiddishkeit.

15:49 Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

15:50 Speaker 1 You know? Like, it just... What it did for my life in such a short time was just incredible, and I'm like, "This is... We gotta just tell everyone," you know?

15:57 Speaker 3 Right.

15:57 Speaker 1 So I, I started with that very quickly.

16:00 Speaker 3 Okay. Then you finished college, or you ended early?

16:04 Speaker 1 I think I... I... So I went to yeshiva a couple times while I was in college, Rabbi Storfer's yeshiva in Miami. I went there for, like, a summer program and a winter program. That was, like, short term. Um, my parents really insisted that I finish college and not take a break or anything like some people do, which I think was a good move. And I finished a semester early 'cause I came in with a lot of what they call, like, AP credits. Like, basically college credits that you get in high school by taking advanced classes. So I was able to finish a little early. Um, I also took Hebrew and Yiddish while I was in college. That was fun.

16:34 Speaker 3 Hmm.

16:34 Speaker 1 Uh, 'cause I knew I was gonna be going to yeshiva, so I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna take the language classes-

16:37 Speaker 3 Nice

16:37 Speaker 1 ... while I'm here." So that gave me a little bit of a head start on learning inside. Um, but yeah, I finished college, and I went to Rabbi Storfer's yeshiva, um, from... It was basically Yitzchok that year until the end of the year. Um, then I went to Chavrei Torah for a year. That was an, that was an interesting turn in my journey. And then I went to Morristown for a year, and, uh, got married a little bit after that. That's the short version. We can zoom in on whichever part you want.

17:06 Speaker 3 Right. So let's, let... So there's, um... I, I shortchanged you by s- just introducing you as that we work together. Um, you, you also have, uh, s- something that's really, really cool, which the audience should know about- ... which is, uh, your coaching.

17:28 Speaker 1 Yeah.

17:28 Speaker 3 You wanna tell us about that?

17:30 Speaker 1 Um, sure. So first of all, it's your fault, so-

17:32 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm

17:32 Speaker 1 ... hopefully, uh, hopefully it's good things that, uh, are coming to the world from it. What could I say about my coaching? Um-

17:40 Speaker 3 Well, well, it, it's... The obvious question I need to ask is why are we talking about coaching in the middle of a podcast about Chassidus?

17:48 Speaker 1 Well, hopefully coaching is not something separate from Chassidus, so. Well, why are we talking about coaching, uh, in a podcast about Chassidus? Because coaching is about... You know, coaching the way I see coaching, obviously that's not the, the way that the, the entire world is experiencing the industry of coaching. But i- it's something that to me has been... I'm talking about in my life, not me as the coach. I al- I also have worked with coaches, um, particularly Aryeh Weinstein, who is the one that, you know, you've made that connection. Um, and that to me was like- I, I would say... You know, let me, let me preface like this. There's applying Chassidus when you're a bachur, you know, and your, your day is basically davening and learning, and there's applying Chassidus when you're married and you have kids, and you have parnasah, and you're much more involved in the world and other people and, uh, you know, jobs and money and stuff like that. It's a totally different chachmah. I mean, obviously, it's the same Chassidus, but the application of it can be much more complex, you know? Um, and so when I worked with Ari Weinstein, basically... Okay, we're skipping around. But, but basically, I ha-I went through a tekufah where I toned down my teaching and, you know, you, you probably remember there was a time when I was giving Mashiach shiurim and, and writing a Mashiach Q&A column every week. Um, I kind of toned that down when I started at

19:08 Speaker 1 Ocean Parkway, and I was just focused on, okay, family, you know, chinuch is like a whole... I'm, I'm becoming a curriculum director of a Jewish school, and I don't have a Jewish elementary school education myself. You know, like, there was a lot to, like, concentrate on. Having kids, that was a whole new world. So I got to a point where, like, the way that I learned to apply Chassidus in yeshiva was not, like, helping me with the sort of quote-unquote, "real-world," uh, challenges anymore, and I needed some help. And I, I wasn't super interested in, you know, therapy or coaching or anything like that really because to me, Chassidus has all the answers. Chassidus is the ultimate truth. Look at what it says in the "Yani Yosher" of Chassidus.

19:45 Speaker 3 Right.

19:45 Speaker 1 You know, all the chachmah of the world is a, is a mix of tov and ra, but Chassidus is the ultimate truth.

19:51 Speaker 3 Right.

19:52 Speaker 1 And any truth that's in the world, Chassidus has it also, so what, what would I need help for? Also, the idea of speaking to people about what's going on personally, that was, like, a totally new thing for me also. So, um, Ari Weinstein was really the perfect person to be, like, someone that I could trust, that I'm opening up to him, and I'm getting a real perspective of, of a Chassid and a shliach and, and all that, and it was just transformative for me. And as I, as I'm saying this, I had never actually thought of this until right now, but it's kind of that same feeling of when I became frum, and I was like, "I have to tell everyone about this." It was actually that exact same thing. It was like, I still remember the moment when I had the thought, like, this, like, in other words, this coaching, like, this is what people need. Like, people need from me. Like, if I'm gonna now get back into my tenui of, of teaching like I used to the college students, like, I, I felt like the biggest contribution I can make is not to give another shiur. There's plenty of amazing shiurim. I felt like the biggest contribution I could make, and also what I felt, like, drawn to do, was to speak to people about what's going on in their life.

20:51 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

20:52 Speaker 1 Um, because speaking to Ari Weinstein about what was going on in my life gave me things that no maimer ever could. Not because of the, not because of a shortcoming in the maimer, but what I see now is that you're, you're limited by the way you hear the maimer. And, you know, you're, you're limited by blockages that you have going on inside, that if you don't speak about those directly or, you know, find another way of working on them directly, I find speaking to be a very good one, then the maimer just doesn't go in the same way, you know? Or the messages of the Rebbe don't go in the same way. So I, I told Ari Weinstein, I was like, "You know, it sounds crazy. You're the coach over here, but I, I kinda feel like I could be doing this also." And he totally, totally encouraged me. He wasn't, like, defensive that, oh, there's gonna be another coach, and it's gonna take away clients or whatever. Uh, you know, nothing like that. He was totally committed to, like, me achieving my potential, and he totally just, you know, encouraged me. Um, and I'm doing that for a few years now, and, and, uh, Baruch Hashem, I, you know, I've managed to s-balance that with yeshiva. I'm still in yeshiva, but coaching on Fridays and Sundays.

22:00 Speaker 3 You can give yourself a plug. What's it called? What's, uh, how can people find you?

22:04 Speaker 1 Um, I mean, my website right now is called ariegurwitz.com, but I think it's gonna be changed soon to frumgreatness.com because that, that... It took me time to get to this message of frum greatness. Anybody who's listening that sees my WhatsApp status, they've seen #frumgreatness probably hundreds of times. Um, but the message is basically that a Torah life, and, uh, I feel like this message is like a fusion of, of everything we just said, like the Lifsh Kirov and the, and the message of Chassidus. Uh, a Torah life is supposed to be a successful life. Like, that's the script, you know? Of course, Hashem gives us Bechir Chachsh so we can go off script. But it's supposed to be that if a person is living according to Torah, then they should be happy in their life. They should have a good marriage. They should be able to earn a parnasah. You know, the-these things we, we know. We all know that there's so much struggle going on in this area today, and there's all kinds of reasons for that, and I think if we ha-really apply the Torah's wisdom properly, it doesn't have to be so complicated.

23:02 Speaker 3 Hmm. So in other words, um, the famous passuk Chassidus always quotes, "Elokim asah es ha'adam yeshar."

23:09 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

23:09 Speaker 3 "Hashem made a person to be straightforward."

23:11 Speaker 1 Right.

23:12 Speaker 3 So usually, when we read that passuk and learn about in Chassidus, it's talking about in terms of doing the right thing. I think that's usually how it's quoted simply in Chassidus, that the way, the way the world is supposed to run is on Torah mitzvahs, and then usually it's followed by, and if a person messed up, so then there's teshuva, you know, then there's another, there's another, uh, possibility. So you're saying that "Elokim asah es ha'adam yeshar" also means, like, mentally and, and, and physically and, uh, emotionally.

23:38 Speaker 1 Uh, interesting. I, I don't think of that passuk often, happens to be. Uh, the passuk I really think about is the passuk in Parshas VaEschanan of "Chachmaschem ubinaschem leeinei ha'amim."

23:46 Speaker 3 Hmm. Ah, okay. Great.

23:48 Speaker 1 Um, and it's really a few psukim over there, which I, I don't have the psukim by pet, but, but basically, there's a lot of... There's a few repeated lashonim there in Parshas VaEschanan about our, our wisdom and our understanding and our greatness. The nations will say, "Mi k'am gdol?"

24:01 Speaker 3 Right.

24:01 Speaker 1 Like, "Who's a great nation like this that's so close to Hashem that," you know, He answers their prayers and stuff like that. And there's a very interesting Rashi over there which says, um, passuk says something about being careful not to forget. Um, we say it in the Shema and Krias, but it's a different... We, I think in Shema and Krias, we're thinking of matan Torah. But here, Rashi says something a little different. Basically, Rashi says that the, this is the nations will see the Jewish people as a wise and understanding nation. That's only if we do the mitzvahs al mitasam, if we do them the true way, if we do them the way they're meant to be. But if we distort them, like, I, I think the lashon is "Veim ta'avsu es ham," like if you, if you distort them, "b'teich shechecha," then you get the opposite result, and you look like fools.

24:47 Speaker 3 Hmm.

24:47 Speaker 1 You look like shchitim.

24:49 Speaker 3 Wow.

24:50 Speaker 1 So basically, what that means is that Hashem gave us the Torah and gave us a choice. This is not talking about not being frum, right? This is talking about you could either do the mitzvahs the way they truly are, or you could do them in a distorted version because you don't have it exactly clear in your mind the way it's supposed to be.

25:05 Speaker 3 Hmm.

25:06 Speaker 1 Right? And that will make the difference whether you're seen as wise people or as fools.

25:11 Speaker 3 Wow. So in other words, you're saying that if the goyim are seeing the, the-- us as, uh, wise because of Torah, then obviously something that even the Goyim could relate to. In other words, a life that's, that they could appreciate is a, is a, is a healthy life, is a productive life, is a positive life. And that's-

25:26 Speaker 1 Yeah

25:26 Speaker 3 ... that's why we know it has to be in every aspect, not just-

25:29 Speaker 1 Yeah

25:29 Speaker 3 ... right things.

25:29 Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly. Which is, which is so interesting 'cause I think we, we can get caught up in an, a story in our heads like the opposite. Like, "Oh, we have the Torah, and it's totally the «foreign» and, you know, nobody understands, like, why it's valuable and whatever, and so they don't like us." And, you know, I, I think it's possible for a person to have that kind of narrative in their head. I'm not saying everybody does, obviously. Um, but that, that doesn't really seem to be the message. The message seems... Or, you know, I think more famous is, like, Or HaGoyim, right? Like, like, Hashem's chosen people are meant to be a light to the nation. Like, we're supposed to be demonstrating the life that Hashem had in mind, and other people are supposed to say, "Wow," you know, "That's amazing."

26:07 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

26:07 Speaker 1 Uh, another example of it is in Parashat VaEschanan. Um, it talks about Issachar and Zebulun, and it says that people would meet Zebulun-

26:15 Speaker 3 Right

26:15 Speaker 1 ... doing business with them, and then they would come to Yerushalayim, and they would be amazed by what's going on over there, the Torah and the food. I don't understand that Rashi about the food. If somebody could explain that one to me, that would be helpful. Um, but, but in other words, people come to Yerushalayim and see what's gon- going on over there.

26:29 Speaker 3 Right.

26:29 Speaker 1 And they're amazed. They're like, "I wanna be part of this," you know? And the, the same, it's like I right away think of, like, Crown Heights. Like, is, is, is this what happens? You know, we have shluchim that go out, and people are amazed.

26:40 Speaker 3 Right.

26:40 Speaker 1 And then you come to Crown Heights, and hopefully you're even more amazed- ... and you really wanna be part of it.

26:44 Speaker 3 Right.

26:44 Speaker 1 You know?

26:44 Speaker 3 Right. So what, so okay. So so far what you're describing is that by living a life from greatness, like you said, so how does Chassidus come into that? I mean, like, I think the answer is-

26:57 Speaker 1 Chazal not comment on what, what do you mean?

26:59 Speaker 3 Exactly. Meaning this is, what you're describing is about technically making the Torah ideals and principles and values real in a person's life to the point that even, like you said, even a Goy could appreciate that this is a, this is a powerf- this is a powerful life, this is a productive life.

27:16 Speaker 1 Yeah.

27:17 Speaker 3 Can you do this without learning Chassidus? Can you do this without doing the same process of applying the principles and the values of Chassidus?

27:25 Speaker 1 Um, so obviously it's, it's the thing that I'm talking about now is Peshat Yishil Mikra, right?

27:29 Speaker 3 Yeah.

27:29 Speaker 1 So, so I, I actually «foreign» that. It's actually good you're bringing that up because I, I think that one thing that was clear to me always from my journey is, like, I, I, I think sometimes... I don't know. I, it's hard to know how many people, you know, feel the different feelings that I'm saying. Like, sometimes I say these different things about what people feel, like what I said a minute ago, and I know there are gonna be peop- people that are like, "What is he talking about?" Like, "I've never had that thought cross my mind, ever." But it's like, I'm telling you, these are real things that happen in the world, you know? Like, I talk to people.

27:57 Speaker 3 Yeah.

27:58 Speaker 1 So I'm always, like, nervous to, like, give these examples. It's like, you know, it's like, "What do you mean people struggle with wanting Mashiach?" I'm like, "Yeah, no, it's true. People, there are people that struggle with wanting Mashiach, and it's okay. We don't have to pretend they're not," you know? Um, but then people are like, "What do you mean by that?" Anyway.

28:13 Speaker 3 So then, then it's not for, then this is not for them.

28:15 Speaker 1 Um, so, so what, what, what was that all of, uh, what was that an introduction to?

28:20 Speaker 3 About the Peshat Yishil Mikra. The-

28:22 Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. So I, I think that sometimes it's possible... I'm so, I'm so, like, people are gonna be like, "What are you talking about?" Um, it's possible to have this perspective where, like, Chassidus is amazing, and, and the Torah without Chassidus is not so amazing. You know? Uh, and there's a lot of reasons why someone could have that perspective. Like, first of all, someone might have that experience. They might experience Chassidus as great and Gemara as not so great. That might have been their experience in yeshiva, whatever. Um, they also might not have learned, you know, like a Rashi and Ramban on Chumash and seen how, like, profound one of those machshavim can be. You know what I mean? Like, sometimes people have an experience where Chassidus is the awesome part of Torah, and the rest of Torah is, like, not necessarily.

29:06 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

29:06 Speaker 1 You know? Um, and I, I think that's a mistake. I, I think that the perspective of the Rebbe is like, and all the Rabbeim, like, obviously, is Torah is amazing, and within Torah, you know, then there's this extra special part of Torah. There's a, the Rozin de Rozin. There's a Neshama de Neshama. You know? So I, I think it's actually very important, an important part of the correct perspective of Chassidus also to appreciate Peshat Yishil Mik- uh, Peshat Yishil Mikra and Nigla and, you know, like, if, if the Rambam gives you marriage advice, let's say, so Chassidus would want you to be highly aware that that, that's actually not the Rambam's marriage advice. That's God's marriage advice. You know what I mean?

29:45 Speaker 3 Right.

29:45 Speaker 1 "«foreign»"

29:46 Speaker 3 Right.

29:48 Speaker 1 So I think that part of Chassidus is, is appreciating Nigla.

29:53 Speaker 3 Right. As you're saying, especially in this concept of under- appreciating how Torah's values and Torah's ideas are also for you in your life.

30:03 Speaker 1 Yeah.

30:03 Speaker 3 That is a Chassidus ingredient.

30:05 Speaker 1 Right.

30:05 Speaker 3 That is a Chassidus perspective, even if you happen to be learning a Gemara and happen to be learning a Chumash.

30:10 Speaker 1 Right.

30:10 Speaker 3 Right?

30:10 Speaker 1 Like, we talk about this all the time in yeshiva. I always use the example of a sukkah. It's like, okay, a sukkah has to be less than twenty amos high, right? It's like, no, no, no. Before Hashem created the world, he thought about a sukkah, and he thought about a Jew sitting in a sukkah, and he thought that if a Jew sits in, in a sukkah that is higher than twenty amos, then that is gonna be... A- and eats a sandwich there, then that's gonna be an Avera instead of a mitzvah. Like, Hashem thought about that before he created the world. Okay, now you go, now you're ready to go learn about the sukkah.

30:36 Speaker 3 Right.

30:36 Speaker 1 You know? Uh, so the same thing is true, like, when the Rambam talks about how the, what the Chachamim, how the Chachamim tr- uh, commanded a husband to treat a wife and how the wife should treat the husband. You know, that's, like, something that is of Hashem's Chachma that is two thousand years before the world, and it doesn't mean seaman. It means midraga. You know?

30:54 Speaker 3 Right.

30:54 Speaker 1 It means, like, there's a Sefer HaChachma, and inside the Sefer HaChachma is Hashem's thoughts about how you should treat your wife.

31:01 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

31:01 Speaker 1 You know?

31:03 Speaker 3 Right. So, okay, so you're, you're saying it's from greatness. Um, you're saying that from greatness, basically that exact formula of taking the concept of from, of what Torah says and making it greatness, like in your life, that is a Chassidus, that is a Chassidus, um, exercise, so to speak. In other words, that is a-- that is something that Chassidus helps you be able to tap into. I mean, the Rebbe drilling in Torah shel Torah. Eventually, you're supposed to be able to think about that even when you're not learning a even when you're learning a, a .

31:36 Speaker 1 Yeah.

31:36 Speaker 3 Right? Right.

31:37 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, I actually... I, I would say the specific idea of from greatness, I, I would never have come to the idea of from greatness necessarily in-- with the, the highest I have for it without Chassidus. Technically, I'm, I'm actually basing the message in, in shot for a reason 'cause I really believe it's for every single Jew.

31:53 Speaker 3 Right.

31:53 Speaker 1 You know? Uh, but Chassidus just adds further highest, adds further understanding, adds further appreciation, you know, of every part of Torah. Um, I also would say that there's... I, I have a, like, a PDF guide that I made called "The Five Foundations of From Greatness," which is basically five ideas that I've... Uh, the way I would describe it is to say that if everybody had these five mental and emotional sort of pillars installed firmly in their psyche, you know, then, then the world would be a much better place.

32:23 Speaker 3 Mm.

32:24 Speaker 1 Um, and some of those I would say are based on Chassidus. Like, like for example, having a sense of purpose. Uh, having a sense of purpose is a big topic in Yiddishkeit, is a big topic in the self-improvement world. Uh, uh, when a person has a sense of purpose. Uh, actually, there was a book that just came out "On Purpose," which is an amazing book, and in the beginning, there was a whole hakdama about the ma'alot of having a sense of purpose. But there's sense of purpose, which is like my feeling that there's a purpose.

32:49 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

32:50 Speaker 1 And then there's, like, the actual purpose.

32:53 Speaker 3 Right.

32:54 Speaker 1 Right? And a person could have a sense of purpose that doesn't actually have anything to do with the actual purpose that Hashem had in mind when he created the world or when he's creating the world at every moment. So wouldn't it be most ideal if my sense of purpose could be derived directly from the actual purpose, which is actually revealed to us? And that's one thing that Chabad-Chassidus is very strong about, that, that dirah b'tachtonim, yeah, it's a Midrash, but I, I don't know of anybody, you know, I don't know of any Sefer or anybody that described dirah b'tachtonim as the purpose of all creation before the Alter Rebbe. I mean, do you? I, I've never heard of.

33:24 Speaker 3 No.

33:25 Speaker 1 You know, there, there's usually explanations that outside of the Chabad world are more typical, like tavata v'hitiv, and, you know, Chassidus brings those things also. Like, they also have their place, but this emphasis on dirah b'tachtonim-

33:35 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm

33:35 Speaker 1 ...and v'havesed b'virurim, let's say. Um, I mean, this is a whole topic we could, we could go into, but like-

33:41 Speaker 3 Yeah

33:41 Speaker 1 ...deriving a sense of purpose from dirah b'tachtonim and v'havesed b'virurim, that would be like a, a Chassidus specific, you know, application of from greatness.

33:49 Speaker 3 Right.

33:49 Speaker 1 Um, the idea of what I call Hashem-based self-confidence, which is like basically believing in yourself based on Hashem. So, so what do I mean by that? Is that if Hashem-- So if there's a purpose, these two things really go together. If there's a purpose, and part of that purpose has been assigned to you, right? Then it must be that Hashem also gave you the capability to fulfill your purpose. The part of the purpose. The part of the big purpose that's assigned to you, you must be able to do it. In other words, uh, heitan and the sinas choach go together. That's something the Rebbe talks about.

34:26 Speaker 3 Right. Right.

34:26 Speaker 1 You know, all the time. Um, and I, I don't know... Or, or we say, like, if the Rebbe, if the Rebbe right now told you to go and do some kind of thing in Australia or whatever, like you would-- The appropriate way to do that would be to believe that the Rebbe is sending you to-- with the choach.

34:41 Speaker 3 Right.

34:41 Speaker 1 That you're gonna be able to go do that thing. So I, I think, I feel like that's like a very Chassidus-based idea, you know?

34:50 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

34:50 Speaker 1 I, I haven't... I, I don't-- In my personal knowledge, like I don't see that being emphasized in other seforim and stuff the same way as it is in Chassidus.

34:58 Speaker 3 Right. So, so let's break this down. So basically what's happening is you're, you're learning, um, Tanya, let's say.

35:06 Speaker 1 Yeah.

35:06 Speaker 3 About the dirah b'tachtonim.

35:08 Speaker 1 Okay.

35:08 Speaker 3 Yeah. And obviously, Tanya and then every ma'amar of the Rebbe talk about dirah b'tachtonim. And when you... And dirah b'tachtonim is a massive sugiah, especially in the Rebbe's Sichos Ma'amarim. And it's a concept, right? There's the dirah, there's the tachtonim, and then the gedrah of tachtonim, and, uh, exactly what it means to make a dirah. Um, how Hashem, uh, why Hashem wants the dirah. How, uh, how to emphasize that the dirah is Hashem. Okay, right? All, all different topics. And then-- And, and a person could, you know, learn it and understand it and even appreciate it on the, like you're saying, in the sense of that this is the, this is the reason why the world was created. You could have that very clear in your mind. The world was created to make a dirah b'tachtonim. To, to bring that into your life, to make that part of who you are, is not only that, like when you're at a juncture of doing a right thing or chas ve'shalom the opposite, that you're gonna choose to do the right thing because you know that you have to make... You have a job till you make a dirah b'tachtonim. But you're saying it could actually shape not just the way you deci- make a decision to do something, but actually the way you view yourself as an entire existence, as an entire person, as an entire being.

36:21 Speaker 1 For sure.

36:22 Speaker 3 I, I am here as part of the dirah b'tachtonim. I am, I am here with a sense of... With a mission, with a purpose. Let's just say.

36:29 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.

36:30 Speaker 3 Or s- or same thing like in, you know, we said about Hashem, uh, Hashem-based, uh, confidence, right? So you're learning Tanya, Perek Bais, "Neshini sh'b'shaul, chelek k'vohamah," right? And again, so too... And then every ma'amar talking about neshamah. And all of a sudden, it takes just a moment of like very, maybe very lucid clarity of like, "So I am the neshamah," and, and like, uh, "Therefore, my entire life is a neshamah." So again, it's not just about like making a certain decision or doing a certain thing-

37:01 Speaker 1 Right

37:01 Speaker 3 ...because I have a neshamah, maybe even 'cause I am a neshamah, but actually in every single interaction that I have throughout my entire life, I could be approaching it with a neshamah perspective.

37:12 Speaker 1 Hundred percent.

37:12 Speaker 3 Right.

37:13 Speaker 1 I think the easiest would be to give an example. So here's a conversation that I've had multiple times. I just had a conversation like this, um, a couple days ago. Um, a lot of times people are deciding what they wanna do for a job. Let's say a Bachur who's deciding, you know, he's kinda out of yeshiva already. Like, I'm saying like older Bachur.

37:27 Speaker 3 Yeah.

37:28 Speaker 1 Like twenty-three, twenty-four, something like that.

37:29 Speaker 3 Finished yeshiva.

37:30 Speaker 1 Um, yeah, yeah. Not out of yeshiva. He finished yeshiva, so he's thinking about, like, what job to do. And, uh, and I've been there also. You've been there also, I'm sure. It's like, it's, it's very easy to look out at the job market and be like, "Okay, there's this, there's this, there's this. Where do I fit myself in?" And 'cause a lot of times people don't have that much confidence at that stage because they've never, they've never, like, been in the job market. So, you know-

37:53 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm

37:53 Speaker 1 ... they're not like, "Oh, I know that I have this to offer and I'm gonna go do that and be very successful at that." It's kind of like, "Where do I fit in?" You know? Um, and that sounds innocent enough, right? But I would say that that is actually not a Torah perspective on how to choose your job. Because the Torah perspective on how to choose your job, um, I have a little podcast episode about this one, is, uh, choosing your job the Shaar Bitachon way.

38:15 Speaker 3 Right.

38:15 Speaker 1 Which there's a, there's a part of Shaar Bitachon, a very small part. Obviously, the main part of Shaar Bitachon is the Bitachon. Uh, but part of the Bitachon is, hey, Hashem wants you to do His davos.

38:24 Speaker 3 Right.

38:24 Speaker 1 And part of the Bitachon is actually to realize that Hashem designed you. Uh, He, He compares it to animals. Just like Hashem designed animals, w- He designed their body a certain way to be able to catch the food or digest the food or whatever that they're supposed to eat, right? Some animals are predators, so there's, they need the claws and the whatever they need in order to catch their prey.

38:43 Speaker 3 Right.

38:43 Speaker 1 Some animals eat plants, so they have certain kinds of teeth and whatever. Like, I learned about these things in school.

38:48 Speaker 3 Okay.

38:48 Speaker 1 You know? And here it is in Shaar Bitachon. He says, "Uh, and also He gave each animal an appetite." The animal knows which food is for it 'cause it, it feels drawn to it, right? So he says that the same thing is true for us, that He gave each person certain talents, whether with their mind or with their body. And He gave each person a, a chibah for a certain kind of work, and you should be looking inside of yourself and becoming aware of, like, what is it that I have to contribute, and looking at that. So, so you actually start within yourself, knowing that there's something I'm meant to be doing in the world. I'm-- now I'm mixing in the purpose stuff.

39:23 Speaker 3 Right.

39:24 Speaker 1 But there's something I'm meant to be doing in the world, and I'm trying to figure out what that is, and that starts with me. That doesn't start with what's out there. Of course, uh, at some point it, it meets with what's out there, but there's a whole 'nother level of, of, like, self-worth and confidence, I think, when you see yourself as, "I'm here for an important mission. Hashem gave me talents." You know, the talents are gifts from Hashem. It's not ego.

39:44 Speaker 3 Right.

39:44 Speaker 1 Which this is where people... It, it's, like, interesting, like, um, it's like, whoa, I have talents? Like, can, can I say that I have talent? Can I say that? That's, uh, that doesn't sound like Bittul. That sounds like Yashus, right? Um...

39:58 Speaker 3 So you're saying a lot... Sometimes you have to, like, f- rewire a lot more than just what the question was. Like, uh-

40:04 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. It's like I, I would wanna not just help... So someone might come to me and say that he wants to help choosing his job. Should he do this job or that job? And I'm like, "I'm not just gonna tell you which job I think is a better job. I'm gonna notice if you're operating from the right perspective."

40:18 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

40:18 Speaker 1 "And I'm gonna point that out to you and teach you about that perspective and then ask you, 'So how does it look now from that other perspective?'"

40:24 Speaker 3 Right.

40:26 Speaker 1 And that can make a huge difference in what you end up deciding to do.

40:29 Speaker 3 You're saying it's more the very fundamental ideas beyond just the specific question.

40:35 Speaker 1 Right.

40:36 Speaker 3 As the fundamental c- of, uh, principles of Torah and of Chassidus and how to apply that to the specific-

40:41 Speaker 1 Right

40:41 Speaker 3 ... situation.

40:42 Speaker 1 Right. So the same thing, let's say you could have the same thing in marriage. You could wonder, "Okay, I'm, I'm doing this. My wife is doing that. You know, how should we work it out?" So one thing is how do you work it out practically, but another thing is are you seeing this as Hashgacha Pratit? Are you seeing yourself and your wife as two halves of one neshamah, and this is part of your teshuvah is to, you know, to work through this challenge?

41:03 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

41:03 Speaker 1 You know what I mean?

41:04 Speaker 3 Right.

41:04 Speaker 1 And, and the whole thing looks different when you look at it with that pair of glasses.

41:08 Speaker 3 Right. So here's an interesting question. W- is there... Do you have, like, a core, and maybe not one, but one of a core principle in Chassidus that you've personally seen, like, that when you translate it a certain way or explain it a certain way, all of a sudden it becomes so practical and so relevant in being able to answer so many specific questions? I mean, we kind of mentioned about the neshamah part before, so that would be, like, an example, I guess. But did, did, uh, like, in other words, I'm not asking just do you have, like, a go-to concept in Chassidus that could answer so many questions, but also, like, a go-to concept that so many people might just gloss over or read and understand but not appreciate the power of it, and then you see how it's so powerful in being able to practically guide a person through different, many different, um, experiences of life.

42:01 Speaker 1 Um, there, there's a few of them. I, I mean, that's, that's a big part of, I would say, what my five foundations are.

42:07 Speaker 3 Right.

42:07 Speaker 1 Like, it's kinda like five of those, and there are more of them.

42:09 Speaker 3 Right.

42:10 Speaker 1 The, the one that jumps out at me based on what you just asked is, um, I, I would say the idea of, like, Hashem's goodness and the idea of His davos.

42:19 Speaker 3 Yes.

42:20 Speaker 1 The, the Baal Shem Tov's father told him, uh, "Love every Jew and fear nothing but Hashem." Uh, I take that in a very practical way, 'cause one of the things that I've, I've come to see is that fear is, like, one of the biggest things that holds people back. And the way it holds us back is not that we are necessarily having anxiety attacks all the time. Um, I mean, that's one type of challenge. But another type of challenge is there are certain things that we won't do or that it won't occur to us to do because we're afraid, but we don't actually feel the fear. We only would feel the fear if we actually start taking that course of action. You know? So, like, if I would tell someone... Not if I would tell someone. If someone would, uh, let's say they own a business and they're, you know, they're making a certain amount of money, and, like, there's a part of them that really they would like to make more, you know?

43:05 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

43:06 Speaker 1 But they're like, "Nah, then I would have to do X, Y, and Z, and, uh, I don't really feel interested in doing that," and whatever. So the, so they'll stick with their current level of income, and they might even say that it's Hashgacha Pratit that they, that they have this level of income.

43:19 Speaker 3 Right.

43:20 Speaker 1 Um, but- If you start talking to them about those options, so then you might find out, like, actually the idea of doing more sales or take a Shliach, that's a good example. Uh, the idea of a Shliach doing more fundraising than is-- than whatever level of fundraising he's doing now. So he's not necessarily having panic attacks every day about fundraising, but if you start talking to him about doubling the amount of money that he's bringing in, and he starts thinking about the types of calls that he would have to make and the types of donors he'd have to reach out to and the type of presentation he'd have to make and all that kind of stuff, and so then it's like, there's fear there. But it was Behelem.

43:57 Speaker 3 Hmm. Right. Right. He wasn't scared of something concretely day to day, but now if he were to go further with this, with this, uh, project or whatever, then there would be so many things to be scared of.

44:07 Speaker 1 Yeah. So I, I would venture to say that, like, we all have something like that. We all have ways that we would theoretically-- Not even theoretically, we all have ways that we'd be interested in enhancing our lives, but the road brings up some kind of fear, and therefore, we don't look at it as, like, a realistic possibility.

44:23 Speaker 3 Hmm.

44:24 Speaker 1 Um, and we might not even notice that it's fear, but, but again, if you start going that direction, you start really envisioning yourself doing that thing, you'll notice the fear.

44:31 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

44:32 Speaker 1 And so the question that comes up is, well, is that fear of Hashem or is that fear of something else?

44:38 Speaker 3 I don't think anyone would say it's fear of Hashem.

44:40 Speaker 1 Right.

44:40 Speaker 3 Right.

44:41 Speaker 1 So it's-- So if it's fear of something else, well, the Baal Shem Tov told us not to have.

44:44 Speaker 3 Oh.

44:44 Speaker 1 Uh, the Baal Shem Tov's father said not to fear anything else.

44:46 Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

44:47 Speaker 1 So now that fear by definition is something that I would wanna get out of my system. Whether I take the course of action or I don't take the course of action, or I take a different course of action that I didn't even think of yet, but to notice that that fear is holding me back.

45:01 Speaker 3 Wow.

45:01 Speaker 1 And then I'm gonna blame it on Hashem, and I'm gonna say, "Well, it's Hashgachah Pratit, there's nothing I can do." Or, or not, or not Hashgachah Pratit, it could be what they call being a victim of circumstances. "Listen, that's just the way the world is."

45:11 Speaker 3 Right.

45:12 Speaker 1 But actually, it's not. On the other side of your fear, there's a whole another life.

45:15 Speaker 3 Interesting. So that's predicating that, that this-- So it, it-- As you were describing this, um, person who's stuck in a certain, um, limited life, I was thinking-- As you were saying that, I was thinking like, "Oh, this also talks about Mitzrayim." Right? And also, like as, as you were saying before, this is, like, a theme you'd come across all across-

45:34 Speaker 1 Oh, for sure

45:34 Speaker 3 ... all over in Chassidus.

45:35 Speaker 1 Yeah. This is all Yitzias Mitzrayim.

45:37 Speaker 3 Right.

45:37 Speaker 1 Everything we're talking about is Yitzias Mitzrayim.

45:39 Speaker 3 Right. And, and, um, and, and I mean, first of all, in, in that, in and as of itself, is already like, yeah, okay, so here we have a concept of Chassidus that we're reading about so much, we're learning about so much, and hopefully, we have realized at one point or another how practical it is in our life. But all of a sudden, this could become something that comes up every week, every month, whatever, every time an opportunity comes up. Um, okay, so that's already, you know, pretty cool. So you're saying that to connect that this Mitzrayim is fear. Okay, so that, that takes a little bit of like, mm, you know, I don't wanna, you know, psychology or self-reflection or, um-

46:19 Speaker 1 Self-awareness, I would say

46:19 Speaker 3 ... self-awareness. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

46:21 Speaker 1 I, I don't think self-awareness is not part of Chassidus.

46:24 Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No. I, I don't mean psychology in a bad way.

46:26 Speaker 1 Yeah.

46:26 Speaker 3 I don't mean psychology as opposed to-

46:27 Speaker 1 Well, psychology is, can mean-

46:28 Speaker 3 Yeah. No, it can-

46:28 Speaker 1 ... can mean a lot of things.

46:29 Speaker 3 Yeah, I shouldn't even say-- I-- Yeah, exactly 'cause I say without context, right?

46:32 Speaker 1 That's actually one of the things that I-- Okay, this is a whole thing, but that this actually is something that I would take a stand for, is like this mindset of like, "Oh, I'm not a psychologist." It's like, "No, you're not a psychologist, but you're a Chassiduh." A Chassiduh has to get involved with this inner world. That's a big part of it, you know?

46:45 Speaker 3 Right. Uh, uh, c-can we say that that's called being a Pnimiy? Like...

46:50 Speaker 1 Yeah. I think of ask a question usually related to Dvar Torah, an open-ended question. Everybody goes around the table and answers it. Um, so this past Shabbos, I asked, like, "What is a, a- an idea in Chassidus that you find is very, um, is very mind-cha-- is very life-changing, is very eye-opening? Not just as an, as an interesting idea philosophically, but as, like, a, um, a mantra, a mantra in your life." That, that was the question. It could be, like, a specific thought or a concept, whatever. Um, and a lot of people by the Suda actually pointed to that idea-

50:51 Speaker 4 Mm.

50:51 Speaker 1 -about how Hashem is-

50:52 Speaker 4 That's so cool.

50:52 Speaker 1 -is good, and Hashem is kind. Which also, like, uh, going back also to what we were speaking about before, that's not, like, Chassidus per se. That's not a Chiddush of Chassidus that Hashem is kind. We, we say it every day in Davening, like, a hundred thousand times. It's exaggerating, right? You know, Tay Hashem echad, and then, then Rachum echad. All these pesukim are describing the great-- the kindness of Hashem.

51:12 Speaker 4 Right.

51:12 Speaker 1 Um, yes, obviously a little bit deeper.

51:14 Speaker 4 I, I think Chassidus offers us ways of perceiving it, which maybe are not inherent in the pesukim.

51:18 Speaker 1 Sure. And, and it, it, it... Or Chassidus reminds us that it's a constant. Chassidus reminds us that it's a, that it's an absolute must, that it's not, like, an option.

51:26 Speaker 4 Right.

51:27 Speaker 1 Um, even that, obviously, you find that in, in the Rishonim, and you find that in, in Mosar, and you find whatever, and in, in, in other works. I, you know, I don't think anyone would say this is a Chiddush of Chassidus. But going back to what we said, yeah, Chassidus will highlight that. Chassidus will, will turn that into a topic of, like we said, of consistency. This will, this will be c-- this will be able to be a mantra because it's a truism. It's a, it's a maxim.

51:50 Speaker 4 Right.

51:50 Speaker 1 Um, so being able to... Yeah. So, uh, the, the... I think that's a good example 'cause it's not something very, super lofty. It's not something super deep. It does require a lot of emunah and, um, conviction that this is true always, and I'll be able to apply this always to my life.

52:06 Speaker 4 Right.

52:06 Speaker 1 Right. Okay. So yeah, so, so is it-- so that's something that you talk about a lot in your-

52:12 Speaker 4 Um-

52:12 Speaker 1 -conversations with people?

52:13 Speaker 4 Yeah. I actually, I ran a group program recently for the first time, and, and there was a lot of conversation about this specific-- probably more than any one point-

52:20 Speaker 1 Mm.

52:20 Speaker 4 -was, um, uh, there was a lot of good stuff that, that was, that everybody brought to the table in that group. But I think this one came up again and again. Um, a-and I was gonna say, like, I, I think of, like, uh, Skill Chabbina, right? Um, I guess, or Kadesh Shira'alf, which very often the response to that is like, "Well, that's very high level," you know?

52:40 Speaker 1 Right.

52:40 Speaker 4 Um, and, and we, we do that. We, we distance ourselves from the ideals of Chassidus by saying, "Well, that's a high level."

52:46 Speaker 1 Right. Do you wanna just summarize what it talks, like-

52:48 Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, yeah

52:49 Speaker 1 -you know, a little, little summary.

52:49 Speaker 4 Yeah. I mean, basically, the Alter Rebbe says there that, um, that your ratzon for banei hayom v'zaneh, basically all worldly matters, should be nothing. Like, you, you should be equally happy either way. „Hein v'lo hav shaven, atzla bash va'amitis," you know? If, uh, if you, uh, if you have children or don't have children, you have money or don't have money, you have health, you don't, you don't have health. It's hard to say these things. We don't wish these things on anybody.

53:16 Speaker 1 Of course.

53:16 Speaker 4 Um, but-

53:17 Speaker 1 You can't just tell this to someone else. Someone el- someone needs to say this to themselves.

53:21 Speaker 4 So in a, in a very, very personal conversation where there's a lot of trust, it, it, it becomes, uh, you know, and then the person knows that you're not, uh, downplaying what they're going through.

53:29 Speaker 1 Right.

53:30 Speaker 4 It, it becomes possible.

53:31 Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.

53:32 Speaker 4 Um, very delicately and very sensitively, obviously.

53:35 Speaker 1 Right.

53:35 Speaker 4 But, but no, but it, it comes up. Um, but, but also even just for ourselves.

53:40 Speaker 1 Yeah.

53:41 Speaker 4 Right? That's, that's, uh... Like, we-- Chassidus is basically talking there about, I would call it unconditional happiness. The technical term is De'shavas. Sometimes De'shavas could be translated as, like, sort of like a stoic thing. I don't know if people know about the Stoics. I don't know that much about the Stoics, but it, it basically means a mindset of sort of like very par, like everything is fine.

54:02 Speaker 1 Right.

54:02 Speaker 4 You know? But that's not really what the Alter Rebbe says there. The Alter Rebbe's talking about everything is good, everything's happy, everything is joyful. So unconditional happiness.

54:09 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

54:10 Speaker 4 And the unconditional happiness, the Alter Rebbe says, is based on really, really understanding and seeing in your mind that... Th-this is the way that I explain it to myself, which, by the way, this is a whole, another whole thing, which is getting used to explaining what the text says in words that resonate within my own mind, which everybody has their own mind. So I'm sure that everybody who said this as a mantra, like, has a slightly different version of that mantra playing in their mind. So for me, it's like, um, I tell myself, "It's not the thing. It's Hashem's goodness dressed up as the thing."

54:44 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

54:44 Speaker 4 Because that's really what the Alter Rebbe is saying. It's not just that Hashem is good, it's the, the world is made out of the or, the shefa, the whatever you wanna call it, and, and that or, and shefa is benevolent. It comes from pach meila, which is the source of Gan Eden. So the same, the same process that Hashem used to make Gan Eden, which is a perfect world, ultimate pleasure, we have no concept even of the, of the pleasure of Gan Eden, made also this cup of water, and made also the germs that are making you sick, you know? Or made also the amount of money that you have or don't have. So if something goes wrong, it's like if, if someone misses a business deal, let's say, so it's not a missed business deal, it's Hashem's goodness dressed up as a missed business deal.

55:28 Speaker 1 Right.

55:28 Speaker 4 Um, my wife and I have been through multiple miscarriages. It's... And, and something that really helped me with that, this is this is real stuff, is, like, it's not just a miscarriage, it's Hashem's goodness dressed up as a miscarriage.

55:41 Speaker 1 Wow.

55:43 Speaker 4 And, and you'll see that baby los of loving. You know, it says that the, the babies that we had miscarriages, like, they're, you know, their neshamah was going through that process, and they'll be there by 3 as an Eisen.

55:52 Speaker 1 Right.

55:52 Speaker 4 You know? Um, and, and that's about the past or the present, and then about the future. Again, the same thing. Well, I could be afraid of that happening again.

56:02 Speaker 1 Hmm.

56:03 Speaker 4 But I don't wanna be afraid of that happening again 'cause that's a fear of something other than Hashem. So what do I want instead? I wanna feel like if it happens, that'll be Hashem's goodness dressed up as that. Meaning if it's a healthy baby, that'll be Hashem's goodness dressed up as that. And, uh, if not, that'll be Hashem's goodness dressed up as that. By the way, we have two healthy children, by the way, so I have a lot to be grateful for. Um, just putting that out there. So, uh, but, uh, so the same with anything. You know, the same in business, the same in... Okay, I'm gonna try to- something to improve my Shalem Bayis and, uh, you know, Baruch Hashem, I have a lot to be grateful for in that area, so I, I don't think I'm making any big efforts there right now. But, but I'm saying if someone is working on, uh, something in Shalem Bayis, so that might-- that particular thing might work, it might not work. But you can go forward with, uh, you can go forward with unconditional happiness. By the way, that's probably also gonna help. That's also part of what the Torah says when you have this Emunah that elevates-

56:51 Speaker 1 Right

56:51 Speaker 4 ...the highest out of that zone where it's creating the, the hidden good, you know-

56:56 Speaker 1 Right

56:56 Speaker 4 ...and, and turns it into revealed good. So that, that like is-- There, there's more there than, uh, a Pasuk saying that Hashem is good.

57:05 Speaker 1 Right.

57:05 Speaker 4 You know? It's like a whole perception of reality and how reality is coming to be at every moment out of Hashem's goodness. And if you could learn to not relate so much-- relate a little bit less to the outer layer and r- relate a little bit more to the Pimiyus, then you could feel good about it.

57:22 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. I mean, let, let-- if we could touch on this topic for a second, even though not to turn the whole podcast into this topic, but why should that-- why should the person therefore want a certain outcome if... You've said before, like Stoic, right?

57:40 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

57:41 Speaker 1 If, if everything is Taku v'Assim, so then why... Assim good.

57:45 Speaker 4 Yeah.

57:45 Speaker 1 So why should I want a specific outcome?

57:49 Speaker 4 That's a fantastic question. Because, yeah, 'cause if I'm happy either way, so then-

57:54 Speaker 1 Right

57:54 Speaker 4 ...like I said, I'm a captain, be happy. What's the problem?

57:56 Speaker 1 Right.

57:57 Speaker 4 The answer really becomes, this is how you start to b- get out of yourself a little bit and dedicate to the-- dedicate yourself to a purpose.

58:04 Speaker 1 Mm.

58:06 Speaker 4 So I could be happy either way, but Hashem has a purpose in certain outcomes, or at least in me putting effort into those outcomes.

58:12 Speaker 1 Right.

58:13 Speaker 4 And the mo-- if I'm happy regardless of the outcome, then I have more mental and emotional space to actually dedicate myself to what He wants.

58:21 Speaker 1 Right.

58:22 Speaker 4 And, and so Hislaus is really like, if you look at Savvas or Rivash, it's like one of the first things they talk about is it's, it's actually a, a very fundamental thing in Avoda. If you take, uh, look at the Amaram pair, Chaf Vav, which is very similar to the Askol Habina that we just discussed. It's also the same kind of message.

58:39 Speaker 1 Right.

58:39 Speaker 4 We can get into Diyuk and whatever, but Bechalal, it's also the same message about Gam Zu L'Tova, that everything is Hashem's goodness dressed up as that. So the reason why the author brings it up in Likutei Moharan is to say that you won't really be emotionally available for Avodas Hashem without this.

58:54 Speaker 1 If you're gonna be worrying about things in your life, then you're not gonna be able to-

58:56 Speaker 4 Yeah. Like he says, the only way that you could implement everything we spoke about until now, pair Chaf through Chaf He about, you know, winning the war of the Nefesh Elokis or the Nefesh Bahamis, is gonna be if you're Bizrizus. And you can only be Bizrizus if you're Basimcha, which involves being Matir your heart from all Dangav Aitzah Ba'alam. And this is the way you do it, by realizing that everything is Hashem's goodness dressed up as that.

59:15 Speaker 1 Right. So all of a sudden, the happiness is not for you to be okay, not just for you to be okay, because, yeah, technically, you should learn how to be okay with whatever happens in your life, but you should be happy in order to be able to serve Hashem and do, and do what Hashem wants. And I guess same thing with, um, let you know, um, ask-- davening for a certain outcome is 'cause you know that Hashem wants that outcome. And maybe sometimes we don't know specifically, and we have to ask a Mashpia

59:44 Speaker 4 Yeah

59:44 Speaker 1 ...and figure out what Hashem wants from us in any given situation. But once we do know what Hashem wants from us in any given situation, we need to be able to wanna have that outcome specifically 'cause it's what Hashem wants.

59:54 Speaker 4 Right.

59:54 Speaker 1 Even if I were to be happy with the other outcome.

59:56 Speaker 4 Right. I, I think in Savvas or Rivash also, the Baal Shem Tov says that type of thing. Like we really should, uh, whether it's there or somewhere else, but that idea of, you know, why daven to Hashem for a certain thing? You daven to Hashem that He should give you what's truly best for you.

1:00:10 Speaker 1 Is that-

1:00:11 Speaker 4 The Baal Shem Tov says that.

1:00:12 Speaker 1 Right. Is that, is that the way we... Is that what the Rabbi talks about, about davening, that you shouldn't ask for a certain outcome?

1:00:19 Speaker 4 Um, I, I don't know off the top of my head, but it, it's something that we can learn from either way, meaning like even if the Rabbi would have a slightly different approach.

1:00:27 Speaker 1 Right.

1:00:28 Speaker 4 But the-

1:00:28 Speaker 1 Uh, uh, sorry, let me, let me clarify. I, I think it, I think there's a difference when it comes to b-- um, fundamental needs, even Al Pi Torah in life. Bani Chayim U'Zani. We're supposed to ask for Sheles. There's a mitzvah, Sheles Trechov.

1:00:41 Speaker 4 Sure.

1:00:41 Speaker 1 Right.

1:00:42 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:00:42 Speaker 1 Sheles Trechov doesn't mean whatever Hashem wants for me is best. Sheles Trechov means what I feel Bedashmis-

1:00:50 Speaker 4 Right

1:00:50 Speaker 1 ...is better for me, which is let, let, let's use a very elementary example, to be healthy, right? I'm supposed to ask Hashem to be healthy, right?

1:00:57 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:00:57 Speaker 1 I'm not supposed to ask Hashem like, "Oh, please let me be able to live whatever life you want me to live." Right?

1:01:06 Speaker 4 Um-

1:01:08 Speaker 1 I, I mean, mean, which could include meaning being, continuing being sick, Chas V'Shalom.

1:01:13 Speaker 4 Right. I, I mean-

1:01:14 Speaker 1 Uh, this, I mean, this is not for Harav, it's for you

1:01:16 Speaker 4 Yeah. No, no, no, it's a, it's a great question. I, I think there's a lot of levels of this, meaning like, it's interesting, like you have the story of Reb Zusha that, uh, the Maggid sent someone to him to learn what it means, um-

1:01:28 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:01:28 Speaker 4 ...to, to be happy, right?

1:01:29 Speaker 1 Right.

1:01:30 Speaker 4 And, and he-

1:01:31 Speaker 1 Even when-

1:01:31 Speaker 4 Bedashmis, he had a lot of things that we would consider to be Surin, but he said like, "What do you mean? I don't know why he sent you to me. Like I've never suffered a day in my life."

1:01:38 Speaker 1 Right.

1:01:39 Speaker 4 So like, I don't know, we can make a whole pilpul now about what are his Trechov. If, if that's the way he feels, then what are his Trechov, you know?

1:01:46 Speaker 1 Sure.

1:01:46 Speaker 4 But, but you could also want that thing, like we're saying, like for the Kavanah of it.

1:01:50 Speaker 1 Oh, right.

1:01:51 Speaker 4 You know, for the, for the, the purpose, you know?

1:01:55 Speaker 1 Right. That's-

1:01:55 Speaker 4 But, but I don't think... However you exactly answer the question, I, I don't think this is really the Rabbi's approach that you should just like not- Like, not be asking for "." That doesn't seem to be, be the Rebbe's approach. But I, I think that that comes with an awareness also of like even the not is really and truly also Hashem's goodness that you could be happy with.

1:02:14 Speaker 1 Right.

1:02:14 Speaker 4 You know?

1:02:16 Speaker 1 Interesting. So-

1:02:17 Speaker 4 Like, you could daven, you could daven for your health to be restored and also know that if Chassidus Shalom's health wouldn't be restored, then that would be Hashem's goodness dressed up as your health not being restored, and that changes the way you experience the davening for your health to be restored.

1:02:30 Speaker 1 Right. I mean, that's the basic distinction-

1:02:31 Speaker 4 These are very sensitive topics, obviously.

1:02:33 Speaker 1 Sure.

1:02:33 Speaker 4 You know?

1:02:34 Speaker 1 100%. It's, uh... But they're real topics.

1:02:36 Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah.

1:02:37 Speaker 1 Like, um, uh, uh, this is, this is, um, this is the basic distinction between what happened in the past versus b'tachav for the future. Like, emunah in that whatever happened to me in the past is Hashem's best versus b'tachav for the future, that the future will be means the way I understand it to be good.

1:02:56 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:02:56 Speaker 1 What this conversation, I think, is shedding light on is that what do you mean the way I understand to be good? Shouldn't I be able to understand either outcome as good? And here we have the certain clarity of what Hashem wants there to be in the world. Like, I mean, let's-- Hashem wants you then to be healthy. Hashem wants you then to be-- to, to have children. Hashem wants you then to have money.

1:03:16 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:03:16 Speaker 1 Right?

1:03:17 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:03:17 Speaker 1 I mean, okay, like, like how do we know that, right? That's, uh, money. I mean, is money.

1:03:22 Speaker 4 Right.

1:03:22 Speaker 1 So how do we know that Hashem wants us to have money? Right? Like, uh...

1:03:27 Speaker 4 Well, there's, uh... I mean, Sharot B'tachav is, is all about that. We also have the the, the wealth, the everybody's rich. You don't know that you're rich?

1:03:40 Speaker 1 That everyone-

1:03:40 Speaker 4 Is that what you wanna talk about?

1:03:41 Speaker 1 -is rich or, or should be rich or can be rich?

1:03:44 Speaker 4 Uh, all the above.

1:03:46 Speaker 1 All the above?

1:03:46 Speaker 4 Uh, and if you don't see it, then it's because it's your avoda to be the magala with your avoda.

1:03:53 Speaker 1 Right.

1:03:54 Speaker 4 Um...

1:03:56 Speaker 1 So, so, uh, so let's say with that, with the premise of that sim- sicha, all of a sudden me asking for money and even a lot of money, not just like Sharot B'tachav level of having enough to live.

1:04:06 Speaker 4 Live, yeah.

1:04:06 Speaker 1 But hell, I mean, the Sharot B'tachav-

1:04:08 Speaker 4 It's pronassa and asheras.

1:04:09 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. E-exactly, exactly. So-

1:04:11 Speaker 4 So I figured out that you see that lesson, that is pronassa, pronassa and asheras.

1:04:15 Speaker 1 Right. And I think in gen-- Sharot B'tachav and I think in general in our Sheinim, um, I was recently even learning a and he talks about very clearly about- Yeah.

1:04:26 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:04:26 Speaker 1 About, uh, about asking-- about figuring how much you need-

1:04:29 Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, yeah

1:04:29 Speaker 1 -to be able to live.

1:04:30 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:04:30 Speaker 1 That's very limited in the way we view money.

1:04:34 Speaker 4 Right.

1:04:34 Speaker 1 That's not the way we view money.

1:04:35 Speaker 4 I mean, we need a lot, but

1:04:36 Speaker 1 What?

1:04:36 Speaker 4 We do tend to need a lot.

1:04:37 Speaker 1 We, we tend to need-

1:04:38 Speaker 4 Legitimately

1:04:38 Speaker 1 ...a lot and then want more than what we need.

1:04:41 Speaker 4 Right, right.

1:04:41 Speaker 1 No, no, not even to go on luxurious extra vacations per se, but even like to be able to, I don't know, go out to a restaurant or something, like, which is not-- I don't think the Semach Zedek, Semach Zedek is talking about that.

1:04:55 Speaker 4 I don't know if they had restaurants back then.

1:04:57 Speaker 1 One reason why Semach Zedek's not talking about it, among other reasons.

1:05:00 Speaker 4 Uh, that's how you read the Semach Zedek? That's interesting. I, I didn't-

1:05:02 Speaker 1 He talks about the, if I need five hundred or six hundred, I think his numbers are ruble for a month, so then, uh, working more than that is, uh, is, uh,

1:05:13 Speaker 4 But does that mean mamash, mamash to like c-cut it down to the absolute minimum you need to survive? Is that what he's saying?

1:05:18 Speaker 1 I don't know if the absolute minimum, but definitely-

1:05:20 Speaker 4 You need to go to a restaurant for, uh, enhancing to bring something into the house, you know.

1:05:26 Speaker 1 Right. So, so that-

1:05:27 Speaker 4 All these things, it also depends if you see it as a avodat Hashem-

1:05:30 Speaker 1 Right

1:05:30 Speaker 4 ...the thing that you need the money for or not, you know.

1:05:32 Speaker 1 I, I, I mean, yeah, exactly. Like, uh, is such an example. Would, would previous generations-- For sure in the Rebbe's world, for sure in, in, in-- I'm thinking that's where the Rebbe talks about, you know, asheras and gold and, uh, for sure you would say that in the perspective that the Rebbe's giving. And the perspective that we're familiar with in the Rebbe's Torah of right?

1:05:52 Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah.

1:05:53 Speaker 1 I mean, it's, it, it-

1:05:53 Speaker 4 They put out a whole sefer about, uh, pronassa, uh, sucking recently.

1:05:57 Speaker 1 About what?

1:05:58 Speaker 4 About pronassa. There's a se-- You know, there's like a similar... I don't know if it's the same people that did it, but similar to like all the Sharot, you know, all the different topics-

1:06:06 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

1:06:06 Speaker 4 ...

1:06:07 Speaker 1 Right.

1:06:07 Speaker 4 Somebody just put out a pronassa one.

1:06:09 Speaker 1 Sharat Pronassa?

1:06:10 Speaker 4 No, it's not called Sharat Pronassa, but it's the same concept, like of that kind of halikhut.

1:06:14 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. I, I-- First of all, I think Sharat Pronassa would be an excellent title, but

1:06:18 Speaker 4 Yeah, whatever. Uh, they didn't ask me what title they should give it, but, uh, but it's amazing. There's a whole, there's a whole section of the sefer called Asheras or asheras.

1:06:26 Speaker 1 It's based on Seders, you're saying. So look at-

1:06:27 Speaker 4 The Rebbe, the Rebbe.

1:06:28 Speaker 1 Oh, the Rebbe. Yeah, yeah. Uh-huh, uh-huh. I mean, uh, uh, I think this is a little bit of interesting topic to go into for a second, but-

1:06:35 Speaker 4 Money's always an interesting topic.

1:06:36 Speaker 1 Well, money, so yeah. But, but m-not just money, but lifestyle. Like, you, you do-- It does seem that this would be a very classic difference between the Rebbe's approach and previous generations. Previous rabbeim, previous Hasidim for sure.

1:06:49 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:06:50 Speaker 1 Peskia and, you know, very clearly not indulging. Like, if, if a, if a Hasid of, of the, I don't know, Semach Zedek or the Rebbe Maharash, Chafes, came to his mashpia and said, "My wife really wants to go to a restaurant," whatever the equivalent of that would be then. I don't know. Take a walk on-- by the water maybe, right? And but like, "Whatever. I-- It's my time to learn," right? What would the mashpia in that generation say?

1:07:21 Speaker 4 Oh, I don't know. You would know that better than me, I'm sure.

1:07:23 Speaker 1 I don't-- I didn't live there. How would I know better?

1:07:25 Speaker 4 I didn't, I didn't either.

1:07:26 Speaker 1 But, but, uh, it f-- It-- we-- I mean, we have the concept of a Peskia. I mean, whatever we could talk about, like the whole...

1:07:33 Speaker 4 But the Rebbe wasn't talking about indulging in that sicha, uh, of Truman and Bass. It's not, it's not to be rich so you can indulge bagashmiyut.

1:07:40 Speaker 1 Okay, one second. Let's, let's refine indulge.

1:07:43 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:07:44 Speaker 1 I don't either mean indulge as in and, uh, uh, grobkite. No, the Rebbe is never condoning any of that. For sure not.

1:07:53 Speaker 4 Right.

1:07:53 Speaker 1 But we're talking about The Bayis Noa, Kelim Noam, right?

1:07:57 Speaker 4 Right. Right.

1:07:58 Speaker 1 Let, let, let's use that example, Bayis Noa, right? I mean, the, the Rebbe's quoting B- Bayis Noam, uh, Merchevet Yisroel, I think it's Gemara, right?

1:08:05 Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

1:08:05 Speaker 1 Right. It's, it's a Gemara.

1:08:07 Speaker 4 basically.

1:08:09 Speaker 1 Right.

1:08:09 Speaker 4 The same idea.

1:08:09 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:08:09 Speaker 4 Same, the same family of stuff.

1:08:11 Speaker 1 Uh, it's a Gemara, remember-

1:08:13 Speaker 4 The is like this, you know? Uh, it's a fusion of Yashes and Pitel like we spoke about before.

1:08:18 Speaker 1 Right.

1:08:18 Speaker 4 Yeah, go ahead.

1:08:19 Speaker 1 Okay. So, so imagine that example 'cause that's what I'm saying, it's a Gemara, so it existed previous to the Rebbe's generation, this saying, this-

1:08:26 Speaker 4 Right

1:08:26 Speaker 1 ... Ma'achal.

1:08:26 Speaker 4 Right.

1:08:27 Speaker 1 So, um, so, uh, Chassid and, and Darshvi... Uh, sorry, and Darhamishi and Darhvi goes to his Mashpiyan and says, um, "I'm thinking of maybe building a big, nice house." Right?

1:08:40 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:08:40 Speaker 1 What would be the response?

1:08:43 Speaker 4 It's funny actually. Um, a friend of mine when I was in yeshiva, when we were learning the Sicha, he, he looked up the Maharsha in the Gemara, and the Maharsha actually says that, "Therefore, they're not good things." The, the-

1:08:54 Speaker 1 'Cause they're not even that good

1:08:54 Speaker 4 ... Maharsha even said that to show them in a, in a bad meaning.

1:08:56 Speaker 1 Mm.

1:08:56 Speaker 4 It's like it makes him mugushah.

1:08:57 Speaker 1 Wow.

1:08:57 Speaker 4 I don't know how to check the Maharsha, but, but something like that, meaning the exact opposite of what the Rebbe's saying.

1:09:01 Speaker 1 Right. In other words-

1:09:03 Speaker 4 So-

1:09:03 Speaker 1 ... it, it's not just another taitch. It's like poshut, like, the perspective of how we look at that Gemara.

1:09:08 Speaker 4 Yeah, it's the exact opposite.

1:09:09 Speaker 1 Who said it's a, a positive thing? Wow, that's fascinating.

1:09:12 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:09:12 Speaker 1 Okay, fine. So, right. Or, or, I was a- actually just thinking, like, we do, we are told that Reb Pinchas, I think it was Reb Pinchas Reisas, um, I think o- o- one of the famous Chassidim of the Alter Rebbe, he had... He was very wealthy, and he had a big house. I believe it was Reb Pinchas Reisas. And, like, he said that why does he have a big house? Because, because he has a big house, so he's respected. I think he lived in, uh, Shklov, I think it was, a big city in Litvakim. So therefore, he has a say. Uh, uh, th- therefore, the meetings, the, the divrei, the call, whatever, the meetings are gonna happen in his house. Because they're happening in his house, so he'll have a say. And because he'll have a say in the, the Torchat, uh, uh, Kehillah, so he'll be able to make sure that the, the, the Chassidishe Melamed or something gets a raise. It's almost like a very, like, like, you know, b- beautiful, like, idea like that.

1:09:55 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

1:09:56 Speaker 1 And that's why he has a big house. So there had to be, like, the, the excuse, right? There had to be that excuse. There had to be that, like, very specific reason why you had a big house. But if a regular Chassid was gonna go to his Mashpiyan and be like, "Hey, I'm thinking of maybe I should get a big house," I, I don't wanna, I don't wanna postulate history, but I would imagine that they'll be like, "Whoa, what do you mean? Uh, scafia. You know, like, why do you want a big house? Where's it coming from? Probably the Itahara, maybe Merchevet Yisroel, look up to Maharsha."

1:10:23 Speaker 4 Right.

1:10:23 Speaker 1 Like, something like that, right? And-

1:10:25 Speaker 4 Maybe.

1:10:26 Speaker 1 Right? And comes the Rebbe and says, "No. Merchevet Yisroel in, in as of itself, it's a way of serving Hashem." Now, again, of course, it can't be far greft. Of course, it can't be indulgence.

1:10:37 Speaker 4 Right. I, I feel like the different-- What comes up for me when you say that story is the idea that doing things Leshem Shamayim makes all the difference. Like, even in eating food, right? Like, eating food Leshem Shamayim elevates it. You have to know what it means. Now, in order to eat the food Leshem Shamayim, you don't just say, "I'm eating the food Leshem Shamayim," and it works magic powers. Like, you have to actually be a person who has some concept of what it means to eat the food Leshem Shamayim and actually be in that space when you eat the food, and then that makes all the difference, whether it's elevating it or denigrating it.

1:11:06 Speaker 1 Right.

1:11:06 Speaker 4 You know, whether you're upgrading it or downgrading it.

1:11:08 Speaker 1 Right.

1:11:08 Speaker 4 So the same, the same thing, it says different places about, about money and everything. Like, uh, when you do s- when you use Gashmiut Leshem Shamayim, you're elevating it. So that's what I hear in that story. Like, he had a Kavanah L'Kus. He had a, he had a reason why, and it was Lovet Hashem, he should have a big house, and that was real for him, and then therefore it's fine. But you have to be honest with yourself if, if you're, if that's really what you feel.

1:11:35 Speaker 1 Oh. So the Rebbe is not giving a blank check of that everyone should have Herchava in all areas unconditionally. The Rebbe is saying that we should all be able to tune in to the real Kavanah and therefore have the Herchava?

1:11:51 Speaker 4 I think so. I, I mean, I don't think the Rebbe... I, I don't wanna say that the Rebbe doesn't want people to have Herchava if their Kavanahs are not perfect. I'm not gonna say that.

1:11:59 Speaker 1 Right.

1:12:00 Speaker 4 Um, especially because in that, actually, in that Sefer, there is a piece where the Rebbe spoke about the difference between the earlier Darash. Like, you see in... I always wondered, like, in, in, uh, Agur Saqueda, if you read through Agur Saqueda, it sounds like everybody's poor, and the other Rebbe's telling the, the other Rebbe's telling them that whatever money they have, to give it away.

1:12:15 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:12:15 Speaker 4 You know? So how does it stem with, with Truman and Bezos? It sounds like two different approaches.

1:12:19 Speaker 1 Right.

1:12:19 Speaker 4 Now, I actually found in that Sefer that the Rebbe, like, addresses it, that, like, in America it's different. Like, obviously, the Avodah is being managed the world in a different way-

1:12:26 Speaker 1 Mm

1:12:26 Speaker 4 ... with regard to shiras, so that-

1:12:28 Speaker 1 Right

1:12:28 Speaker 4 ... that makes a difference.

1:12:30 Speaker 1 Right.

1:12:30 Speaker 4 Um...

1:12:33 Speaker 1 This came in because-

1:12:34 Speaker 4 What was the reason for that?

1:12:36 Speaker 1 Um, uh, I don't know.

1:12:37 Speaker 4 It came in because what?

1:12:38 Speaker 1 Yeah. So this came in because r- I was saying about, like, b- w- when we talk about Banei Chayim Uzenei, and we wanna understand how, uh, we could have the Bitachon going forward and s- and realizing that this is Hashem's Kavanah. In other words-

1:12:52 Speaker 4 Right. Right, right.

1:12:52 Speaker 1 Yeah. That money could be included in that. So, okay, whatever. So we went into the Rebbe's-

1:12:56 Speaker 4 The Rebbe's Herah, I, I was gonna ask you a question about-

1:12:58 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:12:58 Speaker 4 ... about the, the Sicha by saying that I, I think that the Rebbe's Herah is, it's not just be rich and the end. It's be rich so that you can. And the Rebbe says a few things there about Minuchas and Efshom Minuchas, uh, and Minuchas Aguf. Like, like, doing Torah and mitzvahs, but Minuchas and Efshom Minuchas Aguf. The Rebbe quotes the Rambam Minuchas Teshuva that talks about Hashem giving us more Herchava so we can do more mitzvahs. Uh, the Rebbe says giving a lot of tzedakah, doing mitzvahs behitor lifnim hitor, you know, $500 Reigam.

1:13:28 Speaker 1 Right.

1:13:28 Speaker 4 Reigam, uh, they go up to $500 now?

1:13:30 Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

1:13:31 Speaker 4 Um, you know? Like, having the, the most expensive tefillin, the most expensive... Not the most expensive, but the most mehudar-

1:13:37 Speaker 1 Right

1:13:37 Speaker 4 ... which is naturally most expensive.

1:13:38 Speaker 1 Right.

1:13:39 Speaker 4 Um, you know, uh, fully investing in making your home a Mi- a Mishkan Hamikdash Hashem.

1:13:46 Speaker 1 Right.

1:13:46 Speaker 4 You know, which can mean investing in the actual home. It can mean investing in what's going on in the children's lives. It can mean investing in the Shalom Bayis, you know? Um, like, the, the Herah of the Sicha is based on the Mishkan. The idea of the Mishkan is you take the gold from Mitzrayim and use it for the Mishkan. So-

1:14:02 Speaker 1 Right

1:14:02 Speaker 4 ... it's not like be rich, and we'll think about what to do about it. It's be rich so that you can serve Hashem more b'shleimus. That's the Herah.

1:14:10 Speaker 1 Wow. So I, I think to tie it back-

1:14:12 Speaker 4 And the Rebbe's promise is that Hashem is vadai giving the bracha for you to be successful in making that happen. Vadai, mivarech. Like, that word vadai, like, stands out to me.

1:14:21 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. Right. So again, I mean, that, that... what we just said about, like, yeah, the Rebbe is also giving, like, a blank check to everyone. Everyone should be rich. And part of it is, like, part of it is, like, every Yid should be rich, period, and we'll figure out to make sure that it's all good a- uh, you know, I don't wanna say after, but, like, we'll figure that part out. But every Yid deserves to be rich. And then, like, I, I... In other words, I think anyone who learns that Sicha comes across, comes out with that message, and maybe it's not wrong, that like, oh, the Rebbe's saying that every Yid should be rich, period. But you can't ignore the fact that it's a whole Sicha, and it's a whole Sicha explaining about why a Yid needs to be rich, why a Yid should be rich.

1:15:00 Speaker 4 Yeah. That, that's an interesting question. Um, I mean, I mean, mitzvah, obviously, sechel.

1:15:06 Speaker 1 Exactly.

1:15:07 Speaker 4 Like-

1:15:07 Speaker 1 Like, the Rebbe gives the budgets of-

1:15:08 Speaker 4 ... another Yid's kashmiyus is, is my ruchniyus, so, like, I'm not supposed to be making chushbanos about other people having less kashmiyus.

1:15:13 Speaker 1 Correct.

1:15:14 Speaker 4 You know? But I, I do think that the mindset that the sikha is teaching, um, I, I'm sure the Rebbe wants everybody to have har chava v'goshmis regardless of what their intentions are.

1:15:23 Speaker 1 Exactly.

1:15:23 Speaker 4 And also, I think that the message of the sikha is go be rich because of the avodas Hashem that will come through it.

1:15:29 Speaker 1 Correct. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

1:15:30 Speaker 4 Which involves you being in the mindset, like you being that type of person that if I would have more money... It's like an interesting chushban as a person could do going back to self-awareness. It's like, am I the type of person that if my income would be 10X'd somehow, that good things would happen from that? 'Cause it's not always. It's not, you know?

1:15:45 Speaker 1 Right.

1:15:45 Speaker 4 You hear these stories about, uh-

1:15:46 Speaker 1 The lottery

1:15:46 Speaker 4 ... people in Hollywood, you know, you just waste all the money. Like, people make millions and then-

1:15:50 Speaker 1 Right

1:15:50 Speaker 4 ... and then waste it, and then they end up drunk and on drugs or whatever. Like, it's not necessarily a brocha. It really depends on who you are before you get that money.

1:15:56 Speaker 1 Right.

1:15:57 Speaker 4 You know?

1:15:57 Speaker 1 Right. Yeah. It's, yeah. Every-- The, the stat- the statistics of people who win the lottery and then be- lose it very quickly, everyone knows those statistics, especially when they win the lottery, and yet it still happens-

1:16:09 Speaker 4 Right

1:16:09 Speaker 1 ... to most of those people. So-

1:16:10 Speaker 4 Right.

1:16:11 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:16:11 Speaker 4 So maybe Hashem in His goodness is waiting for us to be the type of person that it's for sure gonna be good for us to have the money, and that's when He'll give it to us.

1:16:16 Speaker 1 Right.

1:16:16 Speaker 4 Maybe.

1:16:17 Speaker 1 Right.

1:16:17 Speaker 4 Maybe that's one component of the avoda.

1:16:18 Speaker 1 Especially for, to understand the past. But to, like, in other words, to be able to come to terms how me not having money necessarily till now was for the good.

1:16:28 Speaker 4 Oh, for sure.

1:16:29 Speaker 1 Yeah. But, uh-

1:16:30 Speaker 4 That was Hashem's goodness being dressed up as you not having money and so on.

1:16:33 Speaker 1 Exactly.

1:16:33 Speaker 4 If you don't mind my saying that.

1:16:34 Speaker 1 Yeah, no, no.

1:16:34 Speaker 4 Hopefully you trust me enough that I can say that.

1:16:36 Speaker 1 Uh, yeah, yeah. Um, the, the... To-- We went on a tangent about the money piece and, like, comparing it to, to previous generations, the Rebbe's view, which, you know, is, is, is always an interesting idea. And, and I, I think this, this could be a full topic for itself, how to, um, resolve a lot of the paradoxes that we find between previous generations in Chassidus and, and, and these generations. I mean, there's, there's blatant sterios in Chassidus, things that the earlier Rebbeim have said. And, and not only our Rebbe versus the other Rebbeim, Chas V'shalom. Even like... I'm saying it's nothing to do with, like, our Rebbe versus the other Rebbeim. It's even, you know, you read from the, I don't know, the Mitteler Rebbe to the Rebbe Rashab, and there's different ite sprachim. Even in, like, um... I was recently just, uh, um, listening to something about, um, the b- oh, R-Rebbe Shay's Taub. The, yeah, his sikha this week. Um, sharing the sikha this week about the Bir of Eisav. And as he goes into the, the different Maamarim claim it talks about the Bir of Yishmael. And like, there's, like, open sterios between I think it was the Mitteler Rebbe and Rebbe Rashab or something like that. So-

1:17:37 Speaker 4 Okay. Sounds cool.

1:17:38 Speaker 1 Yeah. So in other words, the, the... It's a, it's a good topic for itself, and I think everyone appreciates that there's this concept of the different tzfufos and the different, uh, the different Rebbeim. Um, but, but to put that tangent aside, to-- I think what, what, what's emerging from here, to, uh, to tie it back, is w-w-when you were talking from, from greatness, so, like, a thought that came to my mind, which I, I, you know, I know the answer. I'm just bringing out the question is, like, from greatness, really? Like, whoa. Like, we're supposed to be great? Like, isn't that, uh, gaava? Isn't that, uh, yeah, like you said before, yeshes, tziyus. And the answer, of course, is that it's from greatness. It's, it's, it's the greatness that's-

1:18:17 Speaker 4 You got it.

1:18:18 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:18:18 Speaker 4 That's exactly the idea.

1:18:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's the, uh-

1:18:21 Speaker 4 I almost didn't hire Ari Weinstein as a coach because he talked about greatness on his website.

1:18:25 Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

1:18:25 Speaker 4 I was that close to ruining my entire life over the word greatness.

1:18:28 Speaker 1 Uh-huh. Interesting. Good.

1:18:30 Speaker 4 So-

1:18:30 Speaker 1 And you were able to, to incorporate that into your-

1:18:31 Speaker 4 So, and, and I spoke to him about it afterwards. Like, "Yeah, I feel like I like this message of greatness, but..." And then, then it hit me, from greatness. Oh. It's like the, it's like the light of the moon, not the light of the sun, you know? It's reflecting-

1:18:42 Speaker 1 Correct

1:18:42 Speaker 4 ... Hashem's greatness.

1:18:43 Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.

1:18:43 Speaker 4 That's from greatness.

1:18:44 Speaker 1 Oh, exactly. So that-- So from greatness means that the greatness of Hashem, the greatness of Torah, and therefore the greatness that Hashem and Torah want from you, right?

1:18:51 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:18:51 Speaker 1 So, so again, forget about the money bit between the previous generations and now. The Rebbe is telling us that, that we, that our kavana, the kavana that we have to make a dibbur tochainim, and therefore to have a very good life, goshmis and ruchnis and benefesh and emotionally and psychologically and all that. So all that means that you should have good things going for you, and therefore you should want those good things and ask for them. So yes, there's the hashgacha piece of if it doesn't happen like that, then I'm happy with that also. And I could even think about the future. Could theoretically think about the future.

1:19:27 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:19:27 Speaker 1 This is, this is a whole new vort. I could theoretically think about the-

1:19:30 Speaker 4 I love this. Yeah, I know what you're talking about.

1:19:31 Speaker 1 Right. Think about the future that I, I still won't be hap-- I still won't be rich, and I still won't be healthy, chas v'shalom, whatever, et cetera. Um, and I, and I, and I know that I could be happy about that, but I could still want and demand and ask and daven for health and wealth and all that because I know that this is ultimately what Hashem wants.

1:19:50 Speaker 4 Right.

1:19:50 Speaker 1 And if Hashem doesn't give it to me, that's His business.

1:19:53 Speaker 4 Right.

1:19:53 Speaker 1 But, but I know that going forward, this is what Hashem wants from me.

1:19:56 Speaker 4 Hundred percent.

1:19:56 Speaker 1 So this is... I mean, I, I, I, I know that this question comes up a lot in bitachon and tefillah, this thing, this, um, this, uh, this question, this contradiction of, like, if I really believe that everything Hashem wants is good, so why do I even need to daven for certain outcomes?

1:20:10 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:20:11 Speaker 1 The, this is a whole vort to the answer, which is, um, Hashem's kavana. You could be happy, but what does Hashem want?

1:20:19 Speaker 4 Right.

1:20:19 Speaker 1 Right. And Hashem wants you to be happy in the sense that, like, what you're, what-

1:20:23 Speaker 4 Yeah

1:20:23 Speaker 1 ... you think your, your nefesh behamis wants, that's what Hashem want. Okay.

1:20:26 Speaker 4 No, hundred percent.

1:20:27 Speaker 1 This is, uh, that's, that's very eye-opening.

1:20:28 Speaker 4 Uh, to me, I, I... The easiest way to see it is, um, you know, one of my favorite sikhas, which I also have a short podcast episode about, is, um, sikha-- Simchas Torah taf shin nun beis. It's a very short sikha. You see, I'm into taf shin nun beis. Um, where the Rebbe says this idea over there that we should greet Mashiach, which, which means that our day-to-day life should look like a me'ein bedugma of the day-to-day life of Bnei Yisrael in the desert. Or in the days of Mashiach. Same idea. So basically, the, the... I actually see that sikha as kind of like the klal of all the later Hebraists that are coming in beis, like the sashiras, for example. The, and the rabbi says that it's, this is a Rav Simcha Zelig and it should be Nimsha all, all whole year. So in other words, there's an Avoda of make your life a Me'ein V'dugma of the life of Yemot HaMashiach. That's an Avoda. You're also gonna enjoy it because Yemot HaMashiach is gonna be awesome for you.

1:21:24 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:21:24 Speaker 4 But that, that's an Avoda.

1:21:26 Speaker 1 Right.

1:21:26 Speaker 4 Like Hashem wants that. Hashem wants that for whatever moments we're still in Galus, which those moments have now extended for over 30 years, um, since the Rabbi said this Seira. That's part of what we're supposed to be doing.

1:21:39 Speaker 1 Right.

1:21:40 Speaker 4 So when you think of it that way, it's like, well, what's gonna, what's it gonna be like in Yemot HaMashiach? In Yemot HaMashiach everyone's gonna have everything, and you're also not gonna be Niftas Din HaGashmiyut at all. You're gonna have more Gashmiyut than you could dream of, and also not be so into it. You're gonna be into it less than you could dream of.

1:21:56 Speaker 1 Right.

1:21:57 Speaker 4 Like the Rabbi says, um, "Kol Hamadaim Mitziyim Kafar" doesn't only mean that they're going to be plentiful like dust, it's also like Mitzriyim can mean like Chashuvim. They're gonna be like, like valued l- like dust.

1:22:08 Speaker 1 Right.

1:22:09 Speaker 4 So you'll have all of it, but it won't be so important to you. That doesn't mean you won't enjoy it, I don't think. It just means it won't be your priority because you'll be so deeply engaged in a relationship with Hashem that that won't feel so important.

1:22:18 Speaker 1 Right. Or maybe to tie it back, maybe it means that you're gonna be engaged in it, but not because of the way you think of it now as a pleasure in as itself, but you're gonna be engaged in it because it's what Hashem wants.

1:22:30 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:22:30 Speaker 1 And that's the, and that's the way to do it nowadays also. It's the Avoda, how to engage with Kashmiyut now also.

1:22:35 Speaker 4 Hundred percent.

1:22:36 Speaker 1 Right.

1:22:37 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:22:38 Speaker 1 Can, can we g- talk about that, uh, you've mentioned that you're into Nanofan Beis?

1:22:43 Speaker 4 Sure.

1:22:43 Speaker 1 So, so w- the reason why I'm gonna pick on that is because, um, it comes out from our conversation. Forget about me knowing you, uh, before this. But- ... just from this conversation, I think anyone listening to this conversation could appreciate that you have a very, Baruch Hashem, you have a very, um, like strong ability to crystallize and make relevant the point and the message and the, and the guiding principle of what Chassidus is coming to give us in any specific given, my Mercaz, et cetera. So Nanofan Beis, anyone who knows, anyone who's touched Nanofan Beis knows that those are actually sometimes most abstract and, and like vague, mysterious, um... I mean, they come across that way. Like, like-

1:23:28 Speaker 4 Yeah, we, we can experience them that way, I would say.

1:23:30 Speaker 1 Right. There are people. There are people that might say-

1:23:33 Speaker 4 There is a thought that could occur to a Jewish person, that's it. Yeah.

1:23:36 Speaker 1 Yeah. That, uh, that these are like not practical and like, uh, not, not practical in the sense of like that there's nothing for me to take out of it, but like very deep and very like Rabbi's like pushing, changing reality and like telling us, uh, not telling us, but like showing us, talking about a reality that's seemingly not the reality. Talking about the way it's g-- like you just mentioned on Sestera, talking about the way it's gonna be when Mashiach comes and making us feel it now or telling us that we should feel it now. Um, how does that become relevant? How does that b-- I mean, there's the, I, I think I know the answer in an escapist kind of way of like, yeah, if you imagine everything from a Gula perspective, so then you're not gonna suffer with anything and you're not going to, uh, you're not going to view anything of, as a problem.

1:24:19 Speaker 4 Right.

1:24:20 Speaker 1 I, I, I could get that, but I'm sure there's more depth to it, which is not just as like, "Oh, in the Gula, there's not gonna be any problems, so therefore force yourself to feel that there's no problems now." I'm sure there's something more than just that. And, and again, I'm not, I'm not even like, I'm not even like asking as much to turn this into a sheer in and often a base versus what ma- what got you attracted to Nanofan Beis. From what I understand, this was like even of the earlier, uh, stage of your-

1:24:52 Speaker 4 Yeah. Yeah, yeah

1:24:52 Speaker 1 ... of your attraction to Chassidus.

1:24:53 Speaker 4 Sure. What personally got me into it, um, I'll tell you, a big part of my journey from very early on was the idea of truth seeking. Going back to one of the guest speakers who came to speak at this Litvish, uh, Kiruv program. There was a guest speaker that they brought who touched, uh, I would say he like touched my heart more than anything else. I know there was a lot of good stuff there that touched my heart, but this is like something that became like my foundation in my mind for like a very long time, is the idea of truth seeking. Um, which is like on one foot, we wanna know the accurate description of reality. If you, if you... He, he gives this example like, uh, if you as a kid you walked into a bank and you see, um, a line of people going, giving money to the bank teller, and you misunderstand what's going on. He said it much better than I'm saying it. But if you misunderstand what's going on, it looks like everybody's just giving their money to this person. There's a person who gets to stand there and just collect all the money. So a kid might think, "Oh, I wanna be a bank teller because then I just get to have all this money." You know? Not in like a bad way. I'm saying it, I'm not saying it right. But you get what I'm saying.

1:26:02 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:26:02 Speaker 4 If, if you have an inaccurate description of reality, you think that it's the bank teller's money, so then you pursue one thing. If you have a different, if you have an accurate description of reality, you'd pursue something very different.

1:26:10 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:26:12 Speaker 4 Um, and he, he brought it out in, in many, you know, very powerful ways and, and his main message ultimately was, um, to look for the truth in terms of like, just 'cause you were brought up secular or if somebody was even brought up Christian or, or however they might have been brought up, seek the truth. Like just because you were born into a certain thing doesn't mean that that's the truth. I guess a lot of people listening to this podcast happen to have born in, have happened to have been born into the truth, but you know, but a lot of people weren't, obviously. So, so seek the truth, right? And that was a big part of what motivated me to, you know, not just do a few mitzvahs or whatever, but to really go all the way with Yiddishkeit. And then the next question on my mind, because I was involved in both Chabad and, and Litvish, uh, Yiddishkeit was, is there a truth within Yiddishkeit itself? So I, I think a lot of people who are involved in Kiruv, let's say, will say like, "Whatever Derech HaMavet Hashem speaks to you, that's what your Neshamah is meant to do." There, there's no like... Okay, we're gonna get politically incorrect over here. There's no, there's no one Derech which is more the truth than another Derech.

1:27:12 Speaker 1 Right.

1:27:13 Speaker 4 But comes the rabbi And there's a whole lot of stuff that the Rebbe says that seems to be saying that this is s- this is not just another derech, this is something-

1:27:23 Speaker 1 Something

1:27:23 Speaker 4 ...this is something special. Yeah.

1:27:24 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:27:24 Speaker 4 Chasidus Chabad, learning not at all Torah Chasidus. I saw a sicha once, I think it's, uh, somewhere in all through Dal, maybe I'll get to it in Yahrsha'ir, that, uh, the Rebbe says the whole machloket of Shitas Chabad and Shitas Polonye is only now, but los of l'ave, everybody will be motze, motze to Shitas Chabad because everyone's gonna be moiler to stay as Hashem.

1:27:40 Speaker 1 Uh-huh.

1:27:41 Speaker 4 You know, I think the Rebbe says something like that. You know, there, there's a lot of stuff from the Rebbe that says, "Hey, this is not just another derech on the way to Hashem, this is something special."

1:27:47 Speaker 1 Right.

1:27:47 Speaker 4 Right? And that really bothered me for a while. Um, and so there was-- for me, there was like truth-seeking within Yiddishkeit itself, and obviously that led me to go into Chasidus. And then within Chasidus, oh, there's different camps about certain questions, right? So what about that? What about that? What about that? And that, that led me to wanna pursue the truth all the way to the end. And part of that was the idea of like when you're learning in yeshiva and you see the... You're learning Shulchan Aruch and that tells you to serve Hashem in one way. And then you're learning Sichot HaRabbeinu and that tells you to serve Hashem a different way. And then there's a Farbrengen going on that's telling you a different way, you know? S- and, and so every week you're learning three different ways of serving Hashem. And like, where am I supposed to put my focus? You know? Um, how, how do you organize it all and know like what you're really meant to do? So I was really... The years that I was in yeshiva, I was really like thirsting for that clarity of like, how am I really supposed to know, you know, I guess now I would say the best guess that I could take at, at what Hashem really wants me to do. And I started figuring out different things. First of all, the idea of each Rebbe being a, a tekufa. Um, and I'm not gonna be meirach about that. I think that's a

1:29:03 Speaker 4 pretty, that's a relatively easy one. Um, but then you discover the idea of there being tekufas in the Rebbe's Nasius itself. The Rebbe talks about Chof Beis Tvat, Ninbeis, uh, Mishpatim, Ninbeis. There's a sicha of Choldes Tav Shenun where the Rebbe says that Nun should be Nisim compared to what was before that. Um, Mishpatim, Ninbeis, the Rebbe actually says every year is like one of the Mem Beis Mosais in the Midbar from Tav Shenye to Tav Sheninbeis. Um, which is interesting 'cause that makes it sound like there's a Chider of Ninbeis even the Gabbi Nin Alef.

1:29:31 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:29:31 Speaker 4 Um, but so that idea of tekufas kind of led me like, "Okay, well, I wanna get the, I wanna get like the most up-to-date software," so to speak. You know? Like, you want the most up-to-date version, that's how you're gonna get the best answer.

1:29:43 Speaker 1 Right.

1:29:44 Speaker 4 Uh, and I think we all kind of intuitively know this because like nobody would say, "What, what year did the Rebbe come out with Rambam Tav Shen Dal Mem?"

1:29:50 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:29:51 Speaker 4 So nobody would say like, "You know something? I'm only holding by like Tav Shen Chof Gimel, so I'm not gonna learn Rambam." You know?

1:29:58 Speaker 1 Right.

1:29:59 Speaker 4 Or, "The Rebbe only came out with Rabeinu Tam at, Rabeinu Tam Tefillin at whatever time that was."

1:30:03 Speaker 1 Wow, that's something. Yeah.

1:30:04 Speaker 4 So, so I'm, I'm a Chassid of the Rebbe from before then, so I don't put on Rabeinu Tam's and I don't buy Rabeinu Tam's for my kids, you know?

1:30:11 Speaker 1 Right.

1:30:12 Speaker 4 Like, y- we don't, we don't do that. Like, everybody understands that we don't do that.

1:30:15 Speaker 1 Right.

1:30:16 Speaker 4 Um, so to me, like Nin Alf, Nin Beis is the same thing. It, it's, it's more-- It's trickier because a couple reasons why. I think one reason it's trickier is the shorter time. Um, also the differences are not like these very gashmius take a different... Not gashmius, but I'm saying-

1:30:33 Speaker 1 Right

1:30:33 Speaker 4 ...very pilpul hamistic, Rambam and not Rambam, Rabeinu Tam, not Rabeinu Tam.

1:30:36 Speaker 1 Right.

1:30:36 Speaker 4 But it's, it's more in Hashkafa, it's more in Midot, it's more, it's more subtle. Um, but, but there's very real stuff over there like Avodah Zarah being finished or Avodah Zarah not being finished. What does that mean? You know? So to me, I'm like my, in my truth-seeking mindset that was instilled in me from back then, like, it's like if the Rebbe's saying that Avodah Zarah is finished, there's probably a reason why the Rebbe's saying that. There's, there's probably some difference in Avodah. And if there is, I wanna understand it because if Avodah Zarah is finished and that makes a difference in what Hashem wants from me and how my life is supposed to look, then I want the later version. I want the post-Avodah Zarah version, not the pre-Avodah Zarah f- being finished-

1:31:17 Speaker 1 Hmm

1:31:17 Speaker 4 ...version.

1:31:19 Speaker 1 Wow.

1:31:20 Speaker 4 And when I learned the Sichas, um, you know, I, I don't learn like the Devarim Halacha Sichas like every week or anything. But when I-- the years that I was very involved in learning them, I was kind of like, "Okay, you're right. Th- they could be very abstract and a lot of connecting this and that and the date and the week and the Parshah and that, right?" But there's also like, if you look at... Usually, I'd say like the beginning of the Sicha and the end of the Sicha. First of all, a lot of the Sichas, I actually only realized this later on. A lot of the Sichas Beis Alef, the Rebbe actually says we're gonna come out with the Hera that connects this, this, this, this, this.

1:31:52 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. Leaves the map. The, uh, gives you the-

1:31:55 Speaker 4 Yeah, but the fact that we're gonna come out with the Hera. In other words, the-

1:31:58 Speaker 1 Oh.

1:31:58 Speaker 4 What if the Sicha is a Hera?

1:32:00 Speaker 1 Right.

1:32:00 Speaker 4 That's what the Sicha is in a way.

1:32:02 Speaker 1 Right. I, I-- Yeah, I think we all understand that going in.

1:32:05 Speaker 4 So-

1:32:05 Speaker 1 Just like any Sicha, that there's gonna be a Hera at the end.

1:32:08 Speaker 4 Okay. Okay.

1:32:09 Speaker 1 I think it's, I think in Alf, Nin Beis Heras themselves are sometimes like a little bit more like, um, a little bit more-

1:32:15 Speaker 4 Okay

1:32:15 Speaker 1 ...like you said before, Hashkafa oriented or-

1:32:18 Speaker 4 Right

1:32:18 Speaker 1 ...therefore less, feeling less relevant.

1:32:21 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:32:21 Speaker 1 That, uh, yeah.

1:32:22 Speaker 4 Okay, that's interesting. I, I was thinking of a different... I thought you were saying something else, which is it doesn't sound like there's that much-

1:32:28 Speaker 1 Focus on Hera at all?

1:32:29 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:32:29 Speaker 1 No.

1:32:29 Speaker 4 I, I thought that's what you're saying.

1:32:30 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:32:31 Speaker 4 So, okay. So, so in that case, like basically what I would do was I look at it kind of like learning Halakha versus learning Gemara. So like you can know Halakha where you know the whole Sha'ar Avot, or the whole Sugya that led up to that Halakha, or you can know the Halakha or anywhere in between.

1:32:44 Speaker 1 Right.

1:32:44 Speaker 4 Right? If you read the Halakha in Kisvei Shofeiim, you're gonna have one, uh, I'm thinking of all our conversations about Kisvei Shofeiim. You're gonna have one level of knowledge. If you're gonna read it with Al Terav Shofeiim, you're gonna have a different level of knowledge.

1:32:54 Speaker 1 Right.

1:32:54 Speaker 4 If you learn from the Gemara through the Rosh, through... Right? So there's all kinds of various levels of background knowledge you might have about any given Hera.

1:33:02 Speaker 1 Mm.

1:33:03 Speaker 4 But I wanna understand the Hera. So what I would do is like, because the Sichas are long, and at that time I was trying to do it every week, I would learn the Sicha, I'd say like very Lagisa to get the overall themes and whatever. I wouldn't try to master every connection and whatever. And then when you get to the part where you see that it's The hayra lapel, or it's the, especially in this generation, or especially in this year, or, like, any of those things that the Rabbi says again and again, slow down. Learn that part really, really well. I'd underline and, um, I learned it with the Sefer that they have of the 」、「Piyutim」 which brings, you know, what, what is the Rabbi quoting?

1:33:39 Speaker 1 Right.

1:33:39 Speaker 4 The Rabbi was all, all the time bringing these sources. What are the sources?

1:33:43 Speaker 1 Right.

1:33:43 Speaker 4 Um, sometimes they're not that complicated.

1:33:46 Speaker 1 Right.

1:33:46 Speaker 4 Um, and when I, when I did that, I-- to me, I just felt like there are things there that are different and, like, highly relevant. I could give a couple of simple examples if you want. Um, but it's like, this is different. There's, there's stuff here that I don't know that it says it anywhere else, or maybe it, maybe it says it a little bit, but here it became the Mishnah Achrona, so to speak.

1:34:08 Speaker 1 Right. For sure. One example.

1:34:12 Speaker 4 A simple example. Um, okay. Have you heard anywhere in Chassidus that there is a, uh... Have, have you seen any other Mimar or Sicha, not from the Maftirim base, which says that you should do a form of hisbodedus where you're envisioning, uh, what the Geulah is going to be like, and that is elevating your whole Avodas Hashem, that's elevating your limited, your Shleisha Kavanot, Avodat Yemot HaKasadim? Is that something that comes up in, like, any Mimar that you're aware of?

1:34:44 Speaker 1 Right. Doesn't sound familiar.

1:34:46 Speaker 4 So in the Sicha of 19 Shvat, the Rabbi talks about exactly that. Um, the Rabbi says, um, "Mistakal ba Shlosha Devarim," you know, the Rabbi's learning it out of that Pirkei Avos.

1:34:56 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:34:58 Speaker 4 And the Rabbi teaches there, obviously not literally, Shlosha Devarim as the third Geulah, the third Beis Hamikdash, and to be Mistakal at it, and through that, like, arouse a, a desire for it, and that will elevate your whole Avodas Hashem. And the Rabbi says, "Ve'en ta'abad le'de'avera," you won't come to any Averos, like in any, any of the Shlosha Kavin, and not even le'de'avera, not even Ta'avas Ha'eiter. So looking at the Geulah became, uh, an eitzah for Ta'avas Ha'eiter. It's like, what? You know? Um, the-- I, I've given a Shiur on it if anybody wants to actually, like, hear just the Shiur on that part of the Sicha. But that's what I would do when I would give them Shiur years ago. That's the type of Shiur that I would give. Like, "Let's focus on this part and see that there's something really new over here."

1:35:43 Speaker 1 Uh, so, so-

1:35:44 Speaker 4 Um.

1:35:44 Speaker 1 Okay, one second.

1:35:45 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:35:45 Speaker 1 Can I interrupt you? So that's on an academic level.

1:35:47 Speaker 4 Once again, divine kind of stuff.

1:35:48 Speaker 1 Right. That's on an academic level, right? So we appreciate academically the, the Chiddush of the Sicha and the fascinating, uh, type of Hayra the Rabbi's giving here. But now what's the, what's the re-- not, not relevance. What's the practical imple-implementation of that? How does that look? What does that mean to be Mistakal? I mean, I'm not familiar with that Sicha per se to say that, like, does... Maybe the Rabbi himself spells it out over there. But I would imagine that it's not extremely spelled out in, like, what does that mean to be Mistakal in the way that the Geulah is? How would you explain that? Like, what, what, what, where...

1:36:26 Speaker 4 Um.

1:36:27 Speaker 1 How do you drive that point home?

1:36:27 Speaker 4 I would love to actually look at it, which obviously we're not gonna do now.

1:36:29 Speaker 1 Okay.

1:36:30 Speaker 4 But, um, just 'cause it's not super fresh in my mind, every detail.

1:36:34 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:36:35 Speaker 4 But one thing that the Rabbi does say over there, which this goes back to the idea of looking at the footnotes. There's a footnote there which refers to Shulchan Aruch, when the Rabbi talks about Mistaklos.

1:36:42 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:36:43 Speaker 4 So me just learning the Sicha, I didn't know what, what sif of, uh, Shulchan Aruch it was referring to. Um, when I learned it with, uh, the 」、「Piyutim」, or if anybody just opens up the Sefer, you see that it's talking about Birkas Kohanim. And the Alter Rebbe talks about why do we cover our faces with a tallis by Birkas Kohanim? 'Cause there's an ex-- it's there to be Mistakal, for the Kohanim to be Mistakal to the people or for the people to be Mistakal at the Kohanim. Um, and it says, "Afilu ri'aya ba'am ha'amatur," but still we cover our top. We don't do ri'aya either, basically. We don't glance either. But there's a difference in Halakha between Mistaklos and ri'aya. I'm sure... I think I can think of other Halakhas also where, where there's that difference. So Mistaklos is focused, prolonged gazing, right? Um, we find also this lashon of Mistaklos in other places in Chassidus that talk about hisbodedus, like, um, Pirkei Avos of Tanya, the hisbodedus associated with Tefillas Mistaklos Bikar HaDamah.

1:37:40 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:37:40 Speaker 4 He also talks about it in Krias Shma Tefila. Um, right at the beginning, there's a whole piece about Mistaklos. So his Mistaklos is like a form of deep hisbodedus where you're, like, gazing in your mind's eye at something.

1:37:52 Speaker 1 Right.

1:37:52 Speaker 4 Now, when you learn Krias Shma Tefila, and it talks about Mistaklos, it's talking about Mistaklos at... I, I don't remember exactly right now, but, but something of Seder Hastachlus, right? Something of Elokos, something Ruchni. So you're gazing in your mind's eye at something that is not of this world.

1:38:07 Speaker 1 Right.

1:38:07 Speaker 4 And trying to generate emotions based on that. And the Rabbi's saying, "Use that same Kayaf of Mistaklos, of focused thought, focused gazing, focused hisbodedus, and not casual, not ri'aya, Mistaklos at the Geulah." So yeah, the Rabbi doesn't necessarily, like, break that down into so many details, but, like, I think the point is, uh, I think Chassidim always had an understanding that there's a certain element of the Rabbi says to do something, we figure out how. You know?

1:38:34 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:38:34 Speaker 4 Uh, there's definitely stories about that. I remember I was in shul one time, somebody told a story like that, and somebody was like, "All right, that's not Mashir." And yeah. Um, you know, like, we have to be willing to, to, to figure out how. Like, if the Rabbi said to do that, then it's not, like, not a practical thing. We have to have that Hanaha. The Rabbi doesn't tell us to do things that are not practical things.

1:38:52 Speaker 1 For sure.

1:38:54 Speaker 4 So, so then, okay, so I'm gonna try to sit and spend time being misbonen. You wanna do thirty seconds, a minute? What-whatever you wanna do. But try, try it out. Try to be misbonen at the Beis Hamikdash Shelishli.

1:39:10 Speaker 1 All right.

1:39:11 Speaker 4 And whether that means the Gashmius Beis Hamikdash Shelishli, if you wanna look at the physical picture, if you wanna learn about the Inyan of the Beis Hamikdash Shelishli and how it's the, the... Which is actually what that whole Sicha is about, is the Ma'alos. That's why it comes at the end of Sicha, 'cause the Rabbi explains how the Beis Hamikdash Shelishli is the idea of Bli Gul, then has the Ma'alos of both the first and second.

1:39:28 Speaker 1 Right.

1:39:28 Speaker 4 Beis Hamikdash, and that's why it's actually better that we went into Galus so that we could get that.

1:39:32 Speaker 1 Right.

1:39:32 Speaker 4 Um, so it comes Behemeshech the whole Sicha, actually. So actually, now that I'm s-- now that I'm talking about it, I'm remembering that if you just learned the Sicha in order, then the Rebbe actually just gave you a lot to be misbonen on about the third Beis Hamikdash.

1:39:44 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:39:44 Speaker 4 Um, so, so if a person sits and does that, the Rebbe's telling you, yeah, the Rebbe's not giving you a script, you know? And the Rebbe's not telling you how much time and those kind of details. Maybe it's better that the Rebbe doesn't, 'cause maybe that's personal because they need to You have to, you have to be willing to play around with your own mind and like we were saying before, like figure out what clicks in your mind.