דיבורים בבית הכנסת

00:00 This is Igress, and today we are going to talk about what the Rebbe thinks about us talking in shul during davening, during Krias HaTorah. I don't think anybody's going to be surprised to discover that the Rebbe's shita is that we should not be talking in shul during davening or during Krias HaTorah. I think that's understood. But, uh, I think we probably don't know just how opposed the Rebbe is or what sort of language he uses surrounding it and, uh, the background, what some of our other Rebbeim have said about it. Certainly, there is a, uh-- Unfortunately, it really is unfortunately, there's a reputation that we are among the different groups of Jews that exist. May they all live and be well. I, I think Chabad probably has a reputation for being among the more talkative of the groups, and that's a real shame given how strongly our Rebbeim feel about it, and that's what we're looking at today. I will remind everybody listening that the reason why I'm doing this topic is because one of the regular listeners sent me a list of topics he was interested in hearing about, and this one was on it. So I'm always looking for things to investigate. And if you send me lists of stuff you'd like to hear about, I would love to look into some of them and see if there's what to talk about. Here, there's plenty to talk about, but don't talk about it in shul. And without further ado, I have a letter

01:01 for you to look at. An early letter. You can tell they're early because it's, it's using normal numbers. The letter is labeled Tav Reish Lamed, which means it was before the first thousand letters. Uh, this is from the year Taf Shin Yud, of Chaf Alef Sivan of Taf Shin Yud, and the Rebbe writes Shel Mo Bracha. And he has a letter that discusses a bunch of things that are going on in various-- in, in, in a, in a, in a shul. But the part that we're looking at, we're just gonna look at a small piece of this letter. It's on your screen. "Beneger le'adiv ba'eisa tefila," regarding the speaking during the time of tefila. People are talking during, during tefila time, during prayer time. "Mi yarihu shiydbuku bekes l'beis hamedrash Igeres Hakodesh, Siman Chaf Daled, v'atakas ha'maida raba shel kaved k'dushas Adoneinu shlita ad derech shmias Krias Sefer Torah." The Rebbe says, "I have a solution for all of your talking in shul problems. People won't stop talking in shul. I want you to hang two things on the walls of the Beis Medrash. I want you to hang Igeres Hakodesh, uh, from the Alter Rebbe." That's the n- the fourth book of Tanya. Two, three, four. Fourth book of Tanya. I want you to hang it on the wall, this, uh, this, this particular chapter, twenty-four, which we're gonna look at inside. And I also want you to attach a copy of the Maida Rabba, the great announcement from the Rebbe Nishmat Chaim, that

02:07 would be the Rebbe Rashab, about listening to Krias Sefer Torah. "Uvetech yesh nez anash," the-- I think in Tel Aviv, "ir Yerushalayim, mitig man nemetsikenin," I believe. Believe he's saying that it could be in any of these towns. Certainly, somebody has a copy. Ask around and you will find a copy of these things. I want you to hang them on the walls. This is the Rebbe solution to talking in shul. So if you are a member of a shul where people talk, the Rebbe says, "Advice, hang up these things on the wall and people will change." We'll get back to that later. I wanna show you one more letter before we look at what the Rebbe is talking about. This letter, as far as I know, has not been printed in Igress yet. It's from Taf Shin Lamed Tes. I don't believe we're up to Taf Shin Lamed Tes in Igress. Maybe that's why. I did find it in Hiskashrus and in a couple other places. I believe it was printed in Kerem Chabad originally. And the Rebbe writes this, "Kibalti michdav tluna me'echad mispalim beis hakneses shulai." The Rebbe writes, "I received a complaint letter, a michdav tluna, a complaint letter from somebody who davens in your shul." And he says that, uh, "Asher af al pi shemin hastam yesh ba gozma." It's certain that he's exaggerating. People are complaining to me that in your shul, they talk the whole time. I'm sure they're exaggerating. I'm sure it's not as bad as this guy

03:05 says. "Af al pi ken, kiven shebinyan hakavod beis hakneses negeach ach tzibur, ech tzibur magiv al tal teifaos, v'lo kol cach kavanas, uh, kavanas, ela shehanagasim era tagbo, tagbo, av harehi af dilim chalek mehatzibur higiv cach mechavas il hareha bezeh." The Rebbe says, "I'm sure he's exaggerating. When it comes to the kavod beis hakneses, when it comes to showing honor to a shul, that any sort of complaint or any perception of impropriety is something we have to deal with, and therefore it is my obligation to point out the following." "Umeduber hu shebeys hakneses yesh mispalim medabrim shes hatefila, v'shas Krias Sefer Torah v'keitz bezeh." The rumor is that in your shul people talk during davening and talk during Krias Sefer Torah. Now, the Rebbe says, "I don't believe them." I believe it's a rare thing that's happened every now and then. I cannot believe that any Chabad shul would have regular talking during davening or regular talking during Krias Sefer Torah. But, uh, since it's been brought up, I'm gonna have to address it. "Kamah. Meniach iní, meniach aní sheyesh bezeh hagzama." I'm certain that this is exaggerated. How many times is the Rebbe saying this? He's saying, "I don't believe it." "Ve'alaz yetz al betzibur, ve'inin veneger betzibur gam ken maspik." Says that any sort of negative rumor that comes out at the communal level is enough. "Umechaves sh'kol ech ad ech la'aseh is kol hatalui b'shlaya hiya makom l'tagbov v'tluna knizge l'il." But we have to do whatever we can to prevent this

04:12 complaint from arising. So I'm sure he's exaggerating. I'm sure it's not true. Um, nonetheless, since he said it, you have to shut it down. "Derech agav," by the way, "vebadi yadea shedavka menager l'dibor b'sichah beis hakneses shas hatefila v'Krias Sefer Torah kir belekud tag bachol ha'deros." You certainly know that every one of the generations, uh, cried foul and really complained about the problem of people talking during davening and talking during Krias Sefer Torah. This is not a new problem and also not something that we only recently started caring about. This has always been something that the Gedolei Am Yisrael have really pushed for, for silence during prayer and Krias Sefer Torah. "Al yadei Medash, uChuzos, uHazon Ish, they released all sorts of a st-- all sorts of documents and statements and announcements trying to get people to stop talking during Krias Sefer Torah." And the Rebbe says, "If you'd like to see some of them, you should check out Igeres Hakodesh from the Alter Rebbe, Siman Chaf Daled." He's referencing it again. "Vegam Kol Kodesh shenif'ah b'Sidur Mitn'sayim, and also the Kol Kodesh that is published in the Sidur of the Mitler Rebbe that is put up by Kehos. Uvetech yesh etzli, o shiuch lakavel etzlanash yichya." Certainly, you have it, or Anash have it. "Kamah," as I've said, "retzein lifrah, lifarish emeduber hu kasee im Igeres Hakodesh hanao, v'shechech hanizukim bifim kamateiros lemiskaven." And he says, "I'm certain that if anybody is talking in your shul, I'd like to reiterate, I'm certain it's not

05:18 talking the whole time. I'm certain they just forgot and just very quickly said a couple words, so I'm not really coming to attack you, but I would like you to brush up on your primary sources for how important it is not to talk in shul." So here, the Rebbe is really, uh, the Rebbe is emphasizing, I think, just how, just how disappointed he would be to find that a shul really is talking during davening. And, uh, back here, the Rebbe says the solution is to look at the primary sources. In this letter, the Rebbe also says that we're getting from the Rebbe the impression, at least in Igress, that if we want to stop talking in shul, all we need to do is look at the primary sources, and we will be so shaken that we will never do it again. And in light of that, let's look at some of the primary sources. We'll look at the Igeres Hakodesh, which I'm sure you know. We'll look at the Mitler Rebbe, which you probably don't know. We'll look at the Rebbe Rashab's Maida Rabba, which you might have heard part of. We're gonna look at a piece of it. And then I'm gonna show you three great sichas from the Rebbe that discuss talking in shul during davening. Okay. First of all, Igeres Hakodesh, uh, of the Alter Rebbe in- Epistle, Chaf Dalid twenty-four, the end of the letter, he says that he very badly wants people not to talk in shul. I'm gonna read

06:13 it to you inside, even though you read it every year, 'cause it's good to have a refresher. And because if you go to a shul where people talk, the Rebbe says you need to refresh their memory by posting this on the wall. One thing that should go on the wall is this. Okay, "Therefore," says the Alter Rebbe, "Shlisayot de-Rabbana de-ra-de-razal." I hate when they spell these things out. "De-rabosenu zecher livracha kal vidza, uh, kal vidna." I'm coming here as a shliach of the rabbis. "Liz'echer zeh l'shav v'lichol nefesh." In order to make a decree that will be equivalent for everybody. A dec-decree applies to everybody. It's not just for the people who like davening. If you walk into the room, the decree is on you. "Shelo yasag siach, sichah b'teilam nishiach shel shlisiyot l'sipalu tefila ad gava kadish basra." That nobody is allowed to speak any idle chatter from the time that the chazan begins davening until the end of the last Kaddish. Shacharit, Arvit, or Mincha. And this is not just a Shacharit rule, this applies in Maariv, this applies in Mincha, Vechul. This applies at all, all the davenings. "Ve'ever al zeh bezadin," somebody who violates this on purpose, knowingly, "yeishav al ha'aretz," must sit on the ground. "Ve'yakish migivol anashim shtei reiyim nidoi sh'lemaylah," and should ask from three people who constitute a bezdin that they should release him from the nidoi, from the excommunication he's received from on high. So the Alter Rebbe is creating an excommunication here that didn't exist

07:18 before. That a person-- Or maybe that did exist before, but he's emphasizing it. That a person who speaks during the time of davening, they're excommunicated, and in order to be freed from this excommunication, they must sit on the ground as a sign of mourning and contrition, and have three people forgive them, forgive their excommunication from the Jewish people. "V'shav v'rapai," and as soon as he repents, he will be healed. "V'lichalah shum nidui lamafrea kol ikar." And then retroactively, he never was excommunicated. He never was in nidui retroactively. So he can rest assured that he won't have to worry about that for the rest of his life, but you do have to very seriously get yourself out of this. And by the way, I, I have not seen anything in Chasidus or from any of our Rebbeim that suggest that this is not still active. It would seem to me, uh, unless anybody knows of an exception to this rule, I don't know of anybody who overturned this, that if somebody talks on purpose during davening, bezadin, uh, and not just randomly, not, not forgetfully, intentionally talks during davening, sounds like the Alter Rebbe wants them to sit on the ground and ask for forgiveness from three yidden. I've never seen anybody do this, and I have seen people speak in shul, so I don't know. "Ki mitzchasav lechal, ki im al avodim v'pishim she'ein mochein u'mechalah v'akash kapara min hashamaim min ha'briyot sa'alav in p'li lizah." Because the entire intent of this excommunication was really

08:19 only to kick out people who actively rebel, knowingly rebel, and don't care at all about to, to get atonement from God and from their fellow creations for doing this wondrous averah, this oven p'li, this incredible averah, which again, is talking during Shacharit. This incredible averah. So he says a- the, the excommunication was mainly there to weed out the Jews who don't even care about the fact that this is a very serious transgression. If you care enough to sit on the ground and ask for forgiveness, then retroactively you never were in nidui in the first place because clearly you do care. "V'gam dafke m'shav v'mezadan b'shat nefesh." And, uh, even this rule, you have to sit in the ground and ask for forgiveness, only applies if you speak intentionally in a way of, uh, shat nefesh, in a way like you're ex-expanding yourself, like you don't care what's going on around you at all. "V'lo ashicheach," it's not somebody who has just forgotten. "She'nizir k'm'piv kamatei sul miskavin." He's in shul and somebody asks him a question and he answers and, like, momentarily he forgets that he's in shul. This happens. "She'en sarah chatar klalah." A person who accidentally speaks in shul without thinking, a couple words come out of his mouth, that person doesn't need a chatar at all. They don't need to sit on the ground. They don't need to ask for forgiveness. "Ovei k'libus klal es likm tadek." And certainly, God is righteous, and He knows what goes on inside your heart and

09:23 inside your kidneys. He knows what's going on inside you. So God Himself knows, and you know, too, whether the talking in shul was accidental or on purpose. "Peyteh v'shem latevim lishon b'libesem." And God should do good to all those who are righteous and upright in their hearts. So these are, these are harsh words from the Alter Rebbe. The Alter Rebbe is saying that somebody who doesn't recognize the incredible gravity of the sin of speaking during davening, during Kriyat Shema, technically should be excommunicated. And anybody who does recognize the gravity of this and wants to do teshuvah needs to have a bezdin free them from their excommunication. And the only place where the Alter Rebbe is relatively lenient is with somebody who makes a mistake. If a person accidentally talks in shul, the Alter Rebbe is-- doesn't feel so badly about that. The Rebbe goes, "Look--" The Alter Rebbe goes, "Look, this happens." But as far as people intentionally speaking during shul, the Alter Rebbe has zero patience for them. I wanna show you something from the Mitler Rebbe, which might be the thing from the, the thing that the Rebbe's referencing from the Mitler Rebbe in this second letter. And whether or not this is what he's referencing, it certainly is worthwhile. Uh, I mean, everything's worthwhile. Worthwhile for our discussion. This is found in Igros of the Re-- of the Mitler Rebbe. So, so far we-- For the record, I know we're all over the place today, but we are still doing only letters.

10:22 We did two letters from the Rebbe, a letter from the Alter Rebbe, and now we're doing a letter from the Mitler Rebbe, so it's still an Igros year. An Igros of some kind. So this is in the Ig- This is in the Igros Kodesh of the Mitler Rebbe, and you'll find this in volume one on page two eighty-seven. And the Mitler Rebbe starts off the letter by saying, "I'm quite sick. I'm really not doing well right now physically, and despite that, I'm writing you this letter because it's very important." So this is, this is at the, at risk of the health of the Mitler Rebbe, he writes the following: "Lachem lehedia mishmi l'chol ir." I want you to let people know in every city in my name. In every minyan, "imsbuchim l'cheykes," whether they're close or whether they're far, "l'cheykim. She'yasu heskem chazak shelo yedaber be'es ha'tefila v'sha shiam hadachatz lifnei hateiva. V'yasu ish mashgiach nema ruach shelo yisa panim lashum ish gam yasim zadon l'chol eiver." On this, uh, "V'shmeu keich yaseh ve'alai liten keich eizeh on makam sheidiam, sheidiam agas." So he says, "I would like you to make an announcement that nobody is allowed to speak during davening from the time that the chazan gets up to the front of the room, uh, all the way until the end of davening," just like the-- his father, the Alter Rebbe said. And, uh, they should make one person, make a gabbai, who is the designated shusher. Put somebody in charge, "mashgiach nema ruach,"

11:24 a trustworthy person, who not only will shush people in shul, but who's not gonna show favoritism. He'll shush everybody. Doesn't matter whether they're the most important guy, whether they're very rich, whether they're very poor, whether they are a, a big rav, or whether they're a regular person. Uh, he says, "I want somebody who's going to shush anybody who talks in shul, uh, to make sure that this doesn't happen anymore." And he says, "In my name and in my power, I want you to ge-- I w- I'm going to give strength, uh, for as far as my hand will reach, that this should happen, that people should strengthen this particular area." Now, after saying that he wants this very badly, and he wants there to be a mashgiach or a gabbai whose job it is to shush people, he goes on to say just how serious it is to talk in shul during davening. Who does not know about the incredible prosecuting angels, about the incredible negativity that can come? I don't have strong-- I don't have a good translation for but it's a bad thing. The horrible things that can happen to us. Nobody know, nobody realizes where all these evils in our lives come from. But in my opinion, all of the negativity in the world, all the all of the terrible things that happened to the Yidden, and he was living in a time where terrible things happened to the Yidden every day. And he said here that, uh, people don't recognize why

12:28 this all happens. says the Mitlabeb, in my opinion, I think that this thing, talking in shul, is what increases the incredible anger, God forbid, that is cast against us. So the Mitlabeb here is saying that he believes that one of the reasons why bad things happen in this world to Jews is because Jews talk in shul during davening, which is something I never would have said had I not seen it in the Mitlabeb. That, that wouldn't have been on my-- That was not on my bingo card, is that, uh, is that reasons for suffering around the world is some guy chatting during Shacharit. But the Mitlabeb says it is. He says, "I, I don't, I, I don't even need to write the incredible the incredible pain that I, that, that I feel when I tolerate this, when I notice, when I see this incredible this incredible barrier that's been breached, uh, among our nation." People talk about random things. They talk about worthless things. They talk about what's going on in the world. They share the news. And they do this during the time that the is davening. They, they-- these people, young people, old people, they're all throwing off the yoke of heaven and talking in shul. And he's saying, "I want you to have mercy on your souls, my dear beloved ones and my dear friends. Don't don't do this incredibly evil thing." "Be humiliated from your actions, that you've done these evil things." "You should be embarrassed and humiliated by these evil

13:55 actions that you've done, uh, next to Hashem." Uh, "He listens to you at all times, and you don't li-- and you don't have the time to listen to him." And, uh, he goes on to say some real, some real strong words. So the Mi-- I mean, even stronger. So the Mitlabeb here is saying that first of all, he's begging that somebody set up a gabbai to make sure people stop talking in shul. But second of all, he lays all of the problems of the Jewish people at the feet of speaking during davening. Says that it creates this incredible anger and kitrug on high, and that, uh, and that it causes him incredible agmas nefesh, and that if anybody cares about their soul and cares about their survival, says, "Have mercy on your own souls and stop talking during davening." So we're not gonna see anything harsher than that. But that one, if that doesn't send a chill down your spine, then you're not paying attention. Finally, the Rebbe said that he wants to have hung on all the shuls a Ma'amar Rabba from the Rebbe Rashab. This Ma'amar Rabba changed my life. Um, I, I do-- I don't mean to make Igress share a confessional, but it's safe to say that when I was growing up, on my list of things that I took most seriously in Yiddishkeit, being quiet during davening and during Krias HaTorah was low on the list. I definitely used to talk in shul quite a bit when I was younger.

15:00 And, uh, and I continued in one form or another, always justifying it as being, you know, it's sort of, it's a it's not right, but in theory it feels, it feels, it feels Hasidish to, uh, to not be too strict about, oh, oh, oh, in shul, you know, we-we- whatever, we're all friends, we all love each other. Uh, uh, I'm not justifying it, I'm telling you that my mindset going into this. And then I don't know, a couple years ago, uh, maybe five years ago, six years ago, really recently, I came across this Ma'amar Rabba, and it changed my life. Because this from the Rebbe Rashab is a long discussion about just how serious it is during-- to talk during Krias HaTorah at all. And, uh, I'm not gonna show you the whole letter, but this thing that the Rebbe once posted on the wall, I read this and I am now no fun to be in shul with. I, since reading this Ma'amar Rabba, it's hard to get me to talk in shul. I might talk in shul sometimes if I'm not davening, but during Krias HaTorah, you can't make me say anything after this Ma'amar Rabba. This Ma'amar Rabba from the Rebbe Rashab, uh, he pasted it on the walls of his Beis Midrash and it made an incredible shtum in Lubavitch. I don't think people understood. I certainly didn't. I don't think even people then understood just how serious it is to talk during Krias HaTorah. And the Rebbe Rashab takes it

15:57 incredibly seriously. So the Rebbe wants this hanging on the walls so people won't do it. I'm gonna show you some of the lines from it, but I also gave it to you on the WhatsApp group, and it's going to be, uh, online. We now have a folder where people can access any of the materials from the Shiurim. Uh, the link is in every one of the podcast episodes. So, uh, you'll be able to pull this letter and read it inside yourself. It's super long. We're not gonna read all of it. But, uh, he opens by saying that everybody needs to be very careful not to say anything during Krias HaTorah. Certainly, they're not allowed to talk during Krias HaTorah at all. And then he says, "Well, it's brought in the Gemara, it's brought in Halakha. There are certain situations where a person's allowed to learn Torah during Krias HaTorah," and he explores that possibility. But then he concludes by saying-- he essentially ends up saying he doesn't want you doing it anyway. Uh, in one of the lines that he says that nobody really loves Torah a-as much as they used to. That there was a time where somebody so thirsted for Torah so much, you could say that, uh, that their Torah is their parnassa, and it's painful for them to stop learning Torah even for a moment to listen to Krias HaTorah, but that doesn't really apply nowadays to people who learn during Krias HaTorah. It's because they don't wanna listen to Krias

16:53 HaTorah. In the end of the day, he says he doesn't like it, but that does happen. After that, he says this though. That whole discussion is about people who want to learn Torah during Krias HaTorah. But to talk about regular things during Krias HaTorah, just to have a side conversation not about Torah during Krias HaTorah, everybody agrees that's completely asur. That's asur like eating treif, that's asur like eating meat on Shabbos. That simply is something that is forbidden. Talking during Krias HaTorah is completely out of the question. Probably more-- I, I don't wanna, I don't wanna rank mitzvas here, but probably more than talking during davening. There is a special place in the Rebbe Rashab, especially in the, in the Ma'amar Rabba, for someone who speaks during Krias HaTorah. He seems to take it just far more seriously than anything else. There's pages upon pages of him quoting Kabbalistic sources about what happens to people who talk during Krias HaTorah, and, uh, I don't wanna make this entire shiur doom and gloom. We already read the Mitlabeb, so we're already in a mindset. So I'm gonna skip a lot of that stuff and just suffice to say that there is, there, there is, there is no good end to people who talk during Krias HaTorah. But I wanna jump down here. He says, "Zel lashon haYavetz." He quotes the Yavetz in his siddur. Uh, amar meirah zeh ha'al, based on the Zohar that said earlier, don't talk during Kriyat HaTorah if you know what's good

17:59 for you. Mevar mi zeh gadol ein ha'kerei ma'shatz. Uh, he explains there the incredible punishment that comes to anybody who reads the Torah along with the Shliach Tzibur. That is, that he's reading out loud. You know when you're in shul and some people, they like finishing the lines by singing a little bit? Or the, um, what's the thing that they, uh, the, the thing that happens in all the shuls where they like, uh, on, on Yom Tov? What am I thinking of? Um, you know, the Maftir, the very famous, uh, everybody likes singing it now. Ka'elas. Ka'ela. The Ka'elas. So he's almost certainly talking about the Ka'elas. But in addition to that, they-- you probably have no-noticed there, some people in shul who read along with the Ba'al Koreh in a very loud way, where you can hear them audibly read along with the Ba'al Koreh, or they like singing the end of the trop signs, or they like concluding the Kriyat HaTorah. They make, they, they make it a, a group event of singing. So he says here that a person who does that, the punishment for them is cheit hanafshai. There's somebody who has sinned against their soul. U'minei haram lishmei ha'kriya mipi ha'shatz. And they prevent people from hearing the Kriyat HaTorah from the person who is leading properly. U'machmich dugma yena. And they contradict the dugma yena, which means they go up against, uh, they go up against spirituality itself. Al ken reih lashkiach al zeh, therefore we need to be

19:01 very careful to avoid this. V'la'neshe et ha'm kali reish, and we need to punish these people who are so lightheaded, these kali reish, heysim divrei Torah zmiras, who think that the words of Torah should be fun songs they sing in shul. So, uh, and the next time you hear Ka'ela in shul, I do wanna remind you that the Rebbe wants this hanging in Beit HaMidrash. A Medaor HaRabba from the Rebbe Rashab that says that we should punish the small-minded people who think the Torah is a cute song. Kimina geyshim sh'zavim nagvim heys Kriyat HaTorah tevis psukim sheyeish vem tatim yafim ve'evim lechei-lechei-lecheicheim. I mean, read that and tell me that's not what we're talking about. He says, says the Rebbe Rashab, let me give you an example. There are some people who like to sing along with the Kriyat HaTorah. They have certain words and certain psukim that have nice tunes that are sweet to their cheek. U'mishtadlan leha'rei zidi yasim, and they wanna show off that they know the trop. Ve'kol nigunasam, and they wanna show off the sound of their nigunim. U'meiniyam es adam lishmei ha'kriya, and therefore you can't hear the Ba'al Koreh. Now, if that's not Ka'ela, nothing's Ka'ela. But it's not just Ka'ela. I mean, this is a phenomenon in shuls, and he comes down on this really hard. Um, and he says here that, uh, that the incredible punishment and the incredible, the incredible, the incredible sin against your soul that's involved in doing such a thing. I'm jumping

20:02 down. One more thing I wanna show you from the Medaor HaRabba is his bottom line. The Rebbe Rashab says, "HaYetzer HaRa na," what comes out from all of this? "Sh'tzarich kolech lishmei Kriyat HaTorah mipi ha'shliach tzibur," that everybody must make sure they hear the Kriyat HaTorah, that they hear the Torah reading from the Ba'al Koreh. V'aser afiu limud be-Kriyat HaTorah, the Rebbe Rashab's conclusion is that it's asur even to learn during Kriyat HaTorah. Ve'kol sh'ken and certainly la'asuch sichah bateil l'chas v'shalom, and certainly to speak random things, God forbid. V'tev sh'ishma bateil ha'chumash, the best thing, what I really want you to do is to open up a Chumash and listen. V'chas v'shalom le'aseh leha'shatz, and God forbid, don't help the Ba'al Koreh. V'lo yikra im ba'kol, and don't read with him out loud. Ki im yishtak, sit there quietly. V'ishma ha'kriya, and listen to the Kriyat HaTorah. Va'azin amar lo yakshavta limitzvotai, v'haya knaar shlomecha. And it says, "The one who listens to my mitzvahs will have all sorts of, uh, like, like, their p-- the peace in their life will be like a river." And there's all sorts of berachahs for people who listen to God's mitzvahs. The Rebbe Rashab says this applies to somebody who listens to Kriyat HaTorah. So I don't-- A-again, we, we opened up by saying that the Rebbe clearly does not want us to talk in shul. And I told you, I think you'd be surprised just how strongly we feel about this. And, uh, I sure, I,

21:05 I sure was going through this material. Uh, you have the, you have the Alter Rebbe saying that a person who speaks during davening is essentially in cherem. You have the Mitler Rebbe talking about how all negative things that happen in the world are because people talk during davening. You have the Rebbe Rashab talking about the sin against your soul and the incredible weight of the sin of simply singing along with the Ba'al Koreh, let alone talking, God forbid, during the Kriyat HaTorah. And I want to just conclude by showing you a couple sifas from the Rebbe where he expresses similar frustration in his own words. We are relatively out of time. I'm gonna run late, but you obviously, uh, should feel free to leave if it's beyond your schedule. I'm gonna keep going till we finish these three sifas. Uh, they're not long. Uh, maybe we'll be here another, I don't know, five, ten minutes. But just letting people know since we, uh, some people schedule their lunch hour or half an hour around the Yigrash here, uh, in case you need to go, don't feel bad. Okay, this sicha is from Parshat Nitzavim of chaf Ches Elul of Tavshin chaf Ches, chaf Ches, chaf Ches. And you will find it in Terias Menachem, volume fifty-three on page four sixty-six. And I'm just gonna show you a little piece, although this has a lot to do with da-- with not talking during davening. The Rebbe says, "L'chol ha'resh," first of all, "ve'dgel iz hirush l'dvar

22:09 d'van bateil v'esa k'neses," regarding how you have to be incredibly careful not to speak any idle talk in the shul, "ve'frat b'shasat tfilat k'neset ha'torah," and especially during davening Kriyat HaTorah. So just what the Rebbe is saying here is that if you're in a shul, you're not allowed to have casual conversations in shul, period. Once you walk into that room, there's an Aron Kodesh, there's a Torah in there, people normally use this space for davening. A shul is not a place where you're allowed to have casual conversations. Uh, but certainly, certainly, you're not allowed to have them during davening Kriyat HaTorah. And, uh, the Rebbe wants to point this out and say we need to be more strict about this. "U'lehakpid al aniyyas Baruch Hu U'Varuch Shemeha," amen, and we need to be more careful about saying Baruch Hu U'Varuch Shemeha and amen, answering in shul. "V'kayedu ad kamishtadlu acharmeinu b'tikun ha'davar." It is well known just how hard our predecessors worked to fix this matter. And when he says that now, I think we really know what he means. This means a little bit more than it might have had we not seen the background. The Rebbe is saying here that this is the long-term effort of many Rabbonim before me, and certainly the Rebbe is at the very least thinking of the Medaor HaRabba of the Rebbe Rashab, the harsh words of the Mitler Rebbe, and the Igeres HaKodesh of the Alter Rebbe, and probably a lot more. This has been spoken about

23:08 for years and years, the importance of making sure that we are strict to not talk sicha bateila, devarim bateilim in shul, certainly not during t- during davening and during Kriyat HaTorah. Another short piece of a sicha I wanna show you. Uh, this has not yet been published as far as I know in, uh, in nice form, meaning it's still typewritten. But this, you'll find this in Sefer HaSichas, in Sichas Kodesh. You'll find this in Sichas Kodesh of Tav Shin Mem. It's in the third volume, and it is on page either nine thirty-four or fifteen, because again, the pagination in these old books is just not fantastic. But anyway, what the Rebbe is saying here, I have a small piece I wanna show you. I highlighted it in the box over there so you can find it nice and easily. Uh, he says there are some people-- And actually, the second half of this sicha, I'm glad I gave it to you because you're gonna find it entertaining if you read the rest of it. I'm gonna tell you just the part that has to do with us, but, uh, if you have a second to go back through this, you wanna enjoy, uh, you wanna enjoy a sicha, l-look at this inside. Anyway, the, uh, the Rebbe says that there are some people who have trouble focusing in shul. They're pacing, they're pacing out front. They, uh, they have trouble focusing on davening. And the Rebbe says that if they're going to fill some of

24:06 their time, uh, 'cause they have extra time, you can assign them tasks. Don't have them pacing in front of the shul. Put them to work. And what should people do if they can't focus during davening? Have them, give them the task of cleaning the shul. And the Rebbe says, this is a big inyun. It's very important to clean the shul because the cleanliness of the shul has two aspects to it. There is cleanliness of the shul in ruchniyus and cleanliness of the shul in gashmiyus. That is, there is a spiritual and physical kind of clean. He defines the spiritual cleanliness of a shul is based on asu l'davar b'shasot tfila, b'shas Kriyat HaTorah. So the Rebbe says that the c-- the spiritual cleanliness of the shul, a shul is considered spiritually dirty if people are talking during davening and talking during Kriyat HaTorah, and you clean it by closing your mouth. As for the physical cleanliness of the shul, it also needs to be physically clean. There shouldn't be sh-- There shouldn't be, uh, dirt on the tables or on the floors. And then he goes on to say that, uh, how important it is to make sure that people-- that everybody works together, not just the gabbaim, but that everywhere-- everybody works together to keep a shul physically clean, which is why some of our gabbaim would really enjoy reading the rest of the sicha. But the first part is really important. The Rebbe is saying that a clean shul in gashmiyus means that

25:08 there's no dirt on the floor. And a clean shul in ruchniyus means that people are not talking during davening Kriyat HaTorah. When you talk during davening Kriyat HaTorah, you make the shul dirty, spiritually dirty. The last sicha I want to show you is a little bit longer, but deeply entertaining, and this you'll find in Todes Menachem Tatshin Mem Gimel, uh, volume two, and it is on page eleven thirty-one. And the Rebbe says, “Meimer mosker,” as an aside, I want to explain something to you, and he talks about talking in shul. He says, “Ki sh'adam mokach.” We see apparently just how hard it-- how important it is to explain and to encourage people regarding this. “She yesh nah Yehudim she takeim beyad bekomi shnas.” There are some Yidden who the moment they wake up in the morning, even before they've said Modeh Ani, they immediately need to listen to the radio to know what's going on in the world. And of course, our equivalent nowadays is that some people check their phones even before they say Modeh Ani. They wanna know what's going on in the world. “Ma'amer pleni ben pleni, be Washington,” you have to know what this guy said in Washington. You have to know what this senator said. “Menegal, uh, le Suria v'Lebanon,” or, you know, they say, "I need to know what's going on in Syria. I need to know what's going on in Lebanon." They, they, they read the news immediately and obsessively. “Ma sheha ham'dvarim shel ha goy be Washington

26:15 menegal et hachashb'yas shel hamshash kene.” Now, what exactly does some non-Jew in Washington have to do with the entire purpose you were created, which is to serve your Creator? Nothing at all. So, I mean, and for all the people whose yetzer hara tells them they should be reading the news, you should remember the first half of the sicha where the Rebbe says, "I'm not sure what some guy in Washington has to do with your cr-- with your purpose of being, which is to serve your Creator." But in any event, “Ma meisif l'cha b'ahavah b'iv-- uh, b'ahavat Hashem?” How is this going to increase your love of Hashem, which is the root of all of the positive commandments? How is this going to increase your yiras Hashem, which is the root of all of the negative commandments? Now, the Rebbe continues. So first of all, he goes after people who listen to the news. But second of all, “Leolam vad, sheba atsim misnag be'efen kezath.” Not just that you do this. So right, you read the news, which is already bad enough. “Elu oizes,” it gets worse. “Hu gam m'vaveis chaverei.” You start confusing your friends. You tell them about the news. “Vach nasu lebeis Knesset.” You arrive in shul. “Misapru l'kula ma sheshama, uh, al, al tei beradio.” The first thing you do when you come to shul is you gotta tell all your friends what you read-- what you heard about on the radio, you know. And, uh, obviously, we still do this nowadays,

27:10 except it's what we saw on our phones, right? “She'al pi shekol hapolitikim, chashu she goy be Washington yev'efen tach, yisbar l'sef kasav she'avefefen hafchi.” Then how does radio go and, and media has not changed at all. The Rebbe says, "What did you hear in the news today?" That even though all of the politicians think that some guy in Washington said something a certain way, it turns out that really he said it the opposite way. That's media, right? “Butzar klades l'kula mesbechius v'chadashus.” You have to prove to everybody that you're an expert in the news. “Uv'zei iz batel gadol chashiv usai.” And this is how you're going to prove that you are an important person. So you show off by showing everybody that you know what's going on in the media and that you are an informed member of society. Now, the Rebbe continues, “Hu hail u'khbeys haKnesset l'hilis palach Kodesh Baruch Hu.” A guy comes to shul to daven to Hashem. “Umakom zeh,” and instead of that, “Harim u'bavas shar yordim tsayim beys Knesset, mapri'ah leha mitb'ilasam.” And what do you do? You're supposed to come to shul to daven, and instead you confuse everybody else, you annoy everybody else, and you bother them from their tefillah, from their prayers. “Umekavem i shul mokrach laafkin es k'dlasai, b'dez kol haches misnachas k'de'eilam,” because why do I feel justified in messing up everybody else's davening? 'Cause everybody has to know that I'm an expert in world affairs because I listen to the news. “Al kir beys

28:12 Knesset tali amnam shalach she asur le davem be shaas hatefillah.” It is true that it's hanging on the wall of the shul, that it's forbidden to speak during davening. “Aval mirab tirah sa be sefer, be sefer, be sefer chadashus ein lefanai k'mo lehis takal shel zeh.” He says that if there's a tablet in the shul that says you're not allowed to talk during davening, but he's so busy saying over the news that he heard, he has no time to look at the wall and see this announcement. “Lach neina,” and recently, the Rebbe says, the custom has become that the gabbai will announce that we're asking that all the small children should make sure that they are quiet and don't bother people in shul. “Uvmakon l'vakis meah yeladim shuv hasheket.” Instead of telling the kids to be quiet, oh, that it would be a lot better, says the Rebbe, if you would ask the adults to be quiet. And this, of course, happens all the time. You'll be in a shul where there is a low roar of adults talking. A kid will run in and make a loud noise, and everybody shushes the child. And the chil-- the adults, they don't talk to. So the Rebbe's complaining about this. The Rebbe's saying, instead of gabbaim shushing children, how about we start by shushing the adults? “U'nei beitz tamim.” There's two reasons why everybody wants to shush the kids and not the adults. “Nei beitz tamim. Alav, avil am namaf rimah yeladim, harim am b'rechiuv v'mash

29:14 ein k'movugarim.” The Rebbe says there's two reasons why you shouldn't worry so much about the kids. Number one, even if they are disturbing the davening, at least they're not barchiv. Um, they, they, they're not obligated either way, so, you know, they're, they're not obligated to not disturb the davening, whereas the adults are actually doing something wrong and should be stopped. And “beiz v'ikar,” the more important reason why you shouldn't worry about the kids too much is because “yelad katzin yadehu bas-- sh-- bas-- beys Knesset l'hilis palach Kodesh Baruch Hu.” Ask a small child why they are in shul. They know that shul is there to daven to Hashem. They know in theory that a shul is where a person davens, not talks. “L'chen kash nefesh beys Knesset.” Therefore, when a child comes to shul, “Harim nes and prut l'tsdaki mesichal.” If it's a weekday, he puts a coin in the pushka. “Mikach biyad sidur.” He's going to naturally grab a prayer book, a siddur. “Namit lis palach mesinas.” He's going to stand and daven properly. Basically, the Rebbe's saying a child's default when they come to shul is to be good in shul. “Halavai lo hayah roiah es anagas shomu bogarim.” But then he sees that all the adults are talking, “Vayelem mehem,” and then he learns from them. “Ki kash ef es takal hanagas avi v'sabai, az rachmana lichlan ma shirah hulu.” He sees his father and his grandfather chatting in shul. He becomes a talker like them. So the Rebbe's saying the main

30:14 reason I want you to go after the adults who talk and not the kids is because the kids are talking in shul because they see the adults do it. Kids don't start off thinking you talk in shul. Kids start off thinking you daven in shul, and they see adults doing it, and that's why they're doing it. So if you really wanna get to the root of the problem, the root of the problem isn't the loud kids, it's the loud adults. Go talk to the loud adults. So what we see from here is that we started off with, uh, with letters from the Rebbe where he says if you wanna stop people from talking in shul, you should really show them the primary sources 'cause most people don't recognize just how serious this is. And I told you personally, I also didn't realize just how serious this was until relatively recently, until maybe a couple years ago, just how serious this is. The Rebbe's main approach is if people are talking during shul, uh, educate them. Let them know just how serious it is. And then we looked up just how serious it is, and we read some things that are uncomfortable to read. We read the Alter Rebbe telling us that a person is technically excommunicated for talking in shul. We saw the Mitler Rebbe tell us that world tragedies come from people talking in shul. We saw the Rebbe Rashab tell us that talking during Krias HaTorah is incredibly bad. Uh, even ta-- uh,

31:10 even learning Torah during Krias HaTorah is really bad. Certainly, Sichah B'Talah during Krias HaTorah is not good at all. And, uh, and the Rebbe, he puts a bunch of chas v'shaloms around that God forbid someone would talk even in learning, but certainly in Dvarim B'Talum during the time of the Torah reading. We saw the Rebbe Rashab really lash out at people who think that the Torah is mu-- a musical number and like to sing along with the Baal Kriyah. So during Krias HaTorah, absolutely out of the question. And then finally, we looked at a couple sichas, and what we got from these sichas is that the Rebbe talks about in this first sicha how this is an old problem, and we've been working on it for generations, and it's very important to make sure people don't talk during davening and Krias HaTorah. In the second sicha, the Rebbe said that a shul has to be clean in gashmius and in ruchnius. And a cleanliness in ruchnius means that there's no dirt in the spirit of the shul, and dirt in the spirit of the shul is people who think they can talk in shul. And finally, we saw the Rebbe take aim at people who, first of all, are obsessed with the news, but second of all and far worse, bring it to shul with them. And then from there, the Rebbe pivots into a discussion of in general what we should be quieting in shul. And contrary to really popular custom, which is shushing

32:05 the kids, the Rebbe says, "I don't know why you're shushing the children. Why don't you tell the adults to be quiet?" Number one, because the kids are not obligated to be quiet in the first place, and number two, much more importantly, the kids are only talking in shul. If you have a shul where the kids are loud, it's probably because the adults are loud, and if we start with the adults, we will root out the problem at its source. Hopefully, having looked at all this together, we've fulfilled the hirah of the Rebbe in his original letter to inform people of the primary sources, and that way, uh, in that way repair what seems to be a very serious barrier among the Jewish people that has existed for hundreds of years, and that hopefully we can once and for all close up with God's help, of course. Thank you all very much.