למה צריך אנשים בשטח?

00:00 Speaker 1 This is Icarus. We're looking at letters from today exactly forty years ago. That's what we're doing for a little while. We're gonna switch between forty and fifty years ago. The letter we're looking at is Ches, Tav, Shin, Ayin, Aleph. That's its indicator at the top of the page. It's from Chaf Vav Heh Shvat. It's almost exactly what we're holding right now, near the end of Shvat, and it is a letter that is a total exception to about every rule. It's, it's a major exception to the rules in the Rebbe. A lot of times we do the opposite. We try to find letters that reflect a shitah. This letter does not reflect a shitah as far as I know. I, I'm not sure that the Rebbe ever said something like this besides in this letter. But the thing we're gonna pull out and discuss is a little more expansive. What we're gonna discuss today is the Rebbe's gonna use an expression in the letter, "Ein L'dayan Elah Ma She'eineiv Ro'eh," that a person can only really judge-- a, a judge, an ac-an actual judge, a dayan, can only judge based on what they see. And therefore, although the Rebbe is willing to give advice, he's not willing to give specific advice about things in a lot of cases 'cause he's not there. Boots on the ground are necessary to make good decisions. That's what we're gonna pull out of the letter and discuss at length. But because this is such a thrilling and exceptional letter to

00:58 Speaker 1 the-- a letter that's an exception to the Rebbe's general rules, we are gonna read the entire letters. The letter for today is again, Chaf Vav Heh Tav Shin Heh Chaf Daled. It's written to Dev Yuda, uh, Shechat, I believe, right? Does it say down here somewhere? Yeah, Shechat from Toronto. This is not-- Th-this is, this is Dovid Shechat's father? Yeah, Dev Yuda? I don't know. Um-

01:20 Speaker 2 Yes, correct.

01:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, okay. My Semikhah is from Rav Dovid Shechat. So this is the, uh, this is the Rav of the person-- This is the father of the person who gave me Semikhah. "Shalom u-bracha. „L'acharei hefsek nis kam mich'tav mechaf kimol Shvat." "After a break, I received your letter after a delay because of this be-Bais Haknesses, and there you wrote about the shul in Toronto that you attend." "Hine, afki bechalal en yanan li saru bekinenza." "Normally, I really don't get involved in these sorts of things, what kind of shul you go to." "At sheshailim datim babki evachul," "until people ask me for my opinion." The Rebbe says, "I don't usually just tell people where to go daven." "Aval kevin shekfi hasharta reka iz nitken glates," "Since I'm sensing that things are not smooth over there." "Ve'od gam zev ikra muskal rishon tzarchli es harbes ba-Bais Haknesses shall tar iz a kadesh." "And because at least at first glance, it would make sense to have more good shuls in the area." "Be'fat be'tiku v'seinozu," "especially in this generation, this time." "Machna matara," I believe. "Ve'ki etzabezeh," "in your particular area." "Lechein cheves dati," "therefore it is my opinion." "Bechetem lozeh," "that based on this." "Shapshva eiven zmani nachan adavar," "even though right now temporarily it might make sense." "Im kamatamishia kavan terasim be Bais Haknesses ei dis casev," "the udaven in the shul that you are discussing." "Avab nigeyl ikvias," "when it comes to a permanent arrangement." "Apia nau," "it would be based on everything I said before."

02:30 Speaker 1 "Teiv shiasid Beis Knesses latzme." "I think you should build your own shul." So the Rebbe is pushing a breakaway shul. I, I've never seen this before in any letter. The Rebbe's saying, "I think you should build your own shul just for yourself." "Ba filim yev dishu vey shi simitzar," "even though initially it's gonna be very difficult." This is another exception. The Rebbe usually doesn't tell people to make moves unless they have support. He says, "Even though initially it's gonna be difficult." "Tadi achdisa yiska," "I'm sure it will benefit in the long term." "Al kapannu yiratsa shiska ma'id," "and it should be God's will that it will benefit very strongly." So the Rebbe is telling him, "I want you to build your own shul just for yourself." Move on. "Shein L'dayan Elah Ma She'eineiv Ro'eh." "Now it is understood that since I'm not there on the ground in person,a judge can only judge based on what his eyes are seeing." "Ve'en ze misugin yanan bechalal," "and this really isn't my field at all." "Laamidafka al cheves dati kamura." "It's not my thing that I do, that I, that I, that I take my opinion..." The Rebbe is saying about himself, "I don't take my own opinion all that seriously when I'm not on the ground and, and I can't assess the situation." "Elimid gisa," "but on the other hand." "En yireh shai la'aliman yiran li l'teives kalmin amuravim." "I can't, uh, I can't turn my eyes away from that which I think is good for

03:30 Speaker 1 everybody involved." "Shiba efen anal," "that things should be in the way that I've described. You should have your own place." "Ba filim im ey eshe shia Beis Knesses beys imamish." "And if you're unable to build one in your house." "Tzarich li shtadel al derach Beis Knesses sheyakhl heitz ya tzmeyi es meshech Beis Knesses data." "You should at least work to get yourself a shul where you can be more independent than the one that you are in right now." It's unclear to me if he was davening at a shul or he was a Rav at a shul, or maybe they had a board that was, that was limiting him. Whatever it was, the Rebbe wants him to have more independence than he has right now and says, "If it means making a shul in your house, that's great. If it means moving down the street, that's fine too, but get out of there." And then the Rebbe says, "Kem shivis karav vanu l'Chodesh Adar." "We are now coming close to Chodesh Adar." "N'kudasa ve'emtsa achodesh hei yemei Purim." "In the middle of Adar is Purim." "De'mishtlach manos ish l're'ehu." "And the point of Purim is to make friends, to send gifts to your buddies." "Ve'achataim bezeh kiruv levav kol Yisrael ve'ad le'achdus amitis." "And one of the goals of sending shalach manos is that you'll make peace between people and bring people close together and create a real achdus." "Yi ratzon," "should therefore be God's will." "Shetaske pulazu teike veShabbos kodesh mevarchem Chodesh Adar." "Heilech vehesed

04:29 Speaker 1 ad kamis yahr ve'shmus amtsa Chodesh." "Therefore, I want you to start this at Shabbos mevarchem, and it should continue growing until the middle of the Chodesh." I do not know what that paragraph means because the Rebbe is saying that in the name of achdus, I would like you to make a breakaway shul. I, I don't know. But in any event, this is what he says, that this should happen specifically in Adar, and I'd like you to start immediately. So the Rebbe said earlier, "Although it seems like this temporary measure is okay, in the long term, I don't think it's gonna work out. Therefore, starting next week, this week, sorry, in this Shabbos, I want you to change things." Why? "Lechavud u'verach luzeis teyvis um shebechal amar venachas amitim benei Shiach yei dis a casev." Says, "I'm wishing you nachas from your son that you write about." I don't know which son this was. I don't know who his oldest was, but he clearly wouldn't have had other-- I guess at this point, he must not have had other sons, or the Rebbe wouldn't have given a bracha for just one of them. "Vezeich kol yetech al atzav Shiach ya." "Among all of the-- all of your descendants, all the people coming out." Maybe he just wrote about one kid who had a pro-- I, I don't know. I don't know. In any event, I don't know which child he's talking about, but the Rebbe gives a specific bracha for one of his sons and gives

05:22 Speaker 1 a bracha for all of his children. "Biachad mizu gaseir rabanis teuch ya." "Also with his wife." Okay, so a fascinating letter all by itself. The part we're going to dive into today, though, is this piece in the middle where the Rebbe says that, "I don't usually, uh, trust my own advice on certain issues," says the Rebbe. "My cheves dati," "what I think makes sense in a situation, I myself," the Rebbe says, "don't take too seriously unless I have boots on the ground, unless I'm there and I can see what's going on because there is a rule, 'Ein L'dayan Elah Ma She'eineiv Ro'eh,' that a judge can only judge based on what his eyes see." Now, this is not necessarily the conventional use of Ein L'dayan Elah Ma She'eineiv Ro'eh. This is used in Shas and Poskim all over the place. The makor, I believe, is a Gemara in Masechet Sanhedrin. This copied over funny, so I have, like- Extra words in this. I should have cleaned it up. Sorry. But it's okay. Only the people who were in the shiur in person can see how messy I made this sheet. Uh, there's a couple places in Halakha that, uh, ein ledayin el hamash ein havrays shows up. There's a Tur in Choshen Mishpat. The Ra-- It's quoting the Rambam that, uh, this is just to calm down dayanim who are afraid they're gonna get in trouble. Uh, anybody who-- The, the line before that, that I cut off, because again, messy sheet, is that a

06:27 Speaker 1 judge who messes things up, he really breaks the entire world. And a judge who answers correctly, he fixes the entire world, and he makes the Shechinah dwell among the Jewish people. So maybe a dayan will say, given that those are the stakes, what do, what do I want with this? I'm gonna get in trouble. Therefore, Hashem tells you, "I will stand with you in judgment." What this means is that a judge is expected to, uh... Huh? Oh, there's an echo on one of you. Yeah, I'll mute you all so that I can't hear myself. I know some-- I'm, I'm hearing an echo. I don't know. Anyway, the way that this idea in Tur concludes is that the judge is only judged himself based on what he sees. The judge is only supposed to do that which he sees. So if what you see is, uh, if what you see is what you see and it's not right, then Hashem will protect you from that anyway. God's gonna stand with you and, uh, and what you see is supposed to be the proper din. So it's used sometimes to comfort dayanim who are afraid of making judgments. Don't worry, your, uh, the, the quality of your work is judged only based on what's in front of you. You're not supposed to be able to, uh, discover secrets. There's a Taz, it's also a Shah, but the Taz is the one who says the word exactly in Yera Deah in, uh, Kuf Pe Ches that when a,

07:34 Speaker 1 when a rav looks at maras, he doesn't have to wait and see if the maras is gonna change color over time or whether it-- he has to-- whether you should wait for, uh, for something dry to turn wet or something wet to turn dry because what the dayan sees right now is what applies, not what he might see in the future. There's a Gemara in Bava Basra that copied over really funny with like random pieces of English that might not even be from the line here. But it's in Bava Basra Kuf Lamed Alef. Amud Alef where, uh, where Rav... I'm gonna get the characters backwards. Rav says to Rav Papa and Rav Huna, who was also was the son of Rabbi Yeshua. So Rav says to Rav Papa and Rav Huna, Brei De Rabbi Yeshua, that, uh, while he's alive, if they see a psak din that doesn't make a lot of sense, they should go to him and ask him shailas about it. But if they see a psak din after he dies, they won't be able to ask him what do they think of this. If the ps- if the psak din from Rav doesn't make sense, they won't be there to-- he won't be alive, so they won't be able to ask him for clarification. And in that case, they should, at the end of the day, do what they see fit. They should rule against him if they-- it seems necessary. Because a judge only bases on what his eyes see.

08:33 Speaker 1 So also this means you don't always have to follow rabbis above you. If you-- If they're not there to explain themselves, and they're not alive anymore, or they can't explain what they were thinking, then at the end of the day, a judge can only do that which he thinks makes sense. There's also a Shut Chasam Sofer that's sort of interesting that is a major usage of that a, that a bezdin that, uh, that finds out that another bezdin made a ruling, they generally speaking, aren't allowed to contradict the ruling of a separate bezdin. But if they know all of the situation, they know all the facts on the ground, they really are aware of everything going on, and they know that that other bezdin made the wrong ruling, they are, according to the Chasam Sofer, allowed to overturn it because a rav is authorized, or really anybody is authorized to look at a situation and say, "I know all the details, and since I know all the details, I can tell you definitively that somebody's wrong about something." The reason why I'm showing you these last two, this Chasam Sofer and also this Gemara in Bava Basra, is this is how the Rebbe's using it. The Rebbe's using as saying that, uh, if, if, uh, if a rav is there to clarify, if a rebbe is there to clarify, you know, he's in the room and he's looking at the situation, you can follow what the rebbe says. But you can't really follow what the

09:33 Speaker 1 rebbe says if the rebbe's not in the room. If the rebbe's not there, um, to, uh, to analyze the details of the situation, it's very difficult to come to a conclusion. So the rebbe's saying this about himself, that until I've seen something, I can't really-- I can give you general guidance, but I can't give you specific guidance. And we're gonna see a couple other cases like that in the rebbe's letters where the rebbe says, "I have an idea of what you should do, but I can't tell you exactly what to do because ." Just one moment. Okay, this is fine. This letter that we're looking at right now is from... It's le- letter is labeled Alef Tuf Kuf Kaf. It's on your screen. It's from Tuf Shin Yod Beis. We're not gonna look at the first half of the letter, just the second half. There's a PS. PSs are a treasure trove in Igris. They're my favorite parts of every letter. You get these real innocuous letters, brachas for you and your whole family, then Nun Beis and the rebbe goes. So here, this person wrote to the rebbe about the way that some students were acting in a Chassidishe yeshiva and he says she, sh- that, that This person writes to the rebbe, "I don't like how long they daven. I think they daven too long." The Chassidim, the Chassidishe students are davening and I don't like it. Why? Excuse me. He's worried about Yehudah. He says, uh, "This doesn't match the rest of

10:45 Speaker 1 their lifestyle. These guys, they're not really, they're not really great bachurim. They don't learn that well. They don't, uh, they don't take, uh, Yiddishkeit or Chassidishkeit all that seriously. When it comes time for davening, they daven for six hours. I think that it doesn't fit their Madrega, and I also think maybe it's Yehudah. Maybe it's a way that they're showing off to each other." So this person writes to the rebbe saying, "I'm not sure about their davening ." The rebbe says, uh, "It could be that you're right about your . But certainly anybody who looks into the youth of our generation can tell you definitively that for them, they're coming out of a broken generation." Remember, this is written in nineteen fifty-two, so this is pretty shortly after the Holocaust. Uh, We gotta be very careful not to weaken any of their resistance to modern trends. Modern trends are pushing students all over the place, and if they're davening that is one of the safeguards they've put up to prevent them from being swept away by the, uh, by the fan- by the things that the current generation fancies. So we can't really, uh, we should be careful not to break down these barriers. The rebbe talks about how even people who aren't really at the proper Madrega, whatever that means, to be davening still should because it protects them from influences from the outside world. That's all in this middle section here. We're just gonna go right down to the bottom, though. At the

11:54 Speaker 1 bottom he says here, But it is understood despite everything the rebbe says, I'm not there. So at the end of the day, you're the, you're the teacher on the ground who sees the situation. I'm not in the situation of Based on what you told me in my letter, I think it's right for them to continue davening . But that's only based on what you told me because since since the judge can only judge based on that which his eyes are seeing, I can't definitively tell you that these students who aren't particularly good in other aspects of the Yiddishkeit and Chassidishkeit should be davening for hours on end. But I can tell you as a general rule, I think they should based on what you wrote to me, I think they should, and you who are on the ground are gonna have to make that final decision. We have a couple examples like this. The Rebbe most frequently uses this expression, at least from when I look through Igros, most frequently uses this expression when it comes to Chinuch. People write to the Rebbe asking for advice with students, and the Rebbe will say, "I have like, I have, I have a, I have a claw on how to deal with these situations," but I-- but you gotta, you gotta look at the situation as a person who's standing there. We have another letter that's a little bit like this. This is a letter labeled of The letter is from and, uh, of and somebody writes

13:04 Speaker 1 to the Rebbe, The, the, the Rebbe writes to somebody, doesn't say who. So actually, it does say who. Somebody says, um... Oh, look at that. Yaakov haLevi Polterak. Wonder if there's any relation. I have no idea.

13:18 Speaker 3 They're not Levian.

13:19 Speaker 1 Yeah, they're not Levian, so I, I, I doubt there's a relation. Anyway, we have a Polterak. I guess not, I guess not related or maybe related. I don't know. Maybe they are.

13:26 Speaker 3 Or are we gonna find out now that they are related?

13:27 Speaker 1 This is where we find out that they're Levian. Yeah. I don't know. Um, interesting. Okay. In any event, uh, the decision that you are making about this particular school relies on many details. There's all sorts of things to consider, levels and such. It's also possible the letter I'm receiving isn't exactly reflecting the situation. We've had a shiur on this before, that the Rebbe sometimes says, "I, I'm, I'm hearing, I'm hearing one side of an argument, and I sense you might not be telling me everything." You're complaining to me about a, about a school, telling me how this school should be run and how things should be done differently. I, I can't help you. Uh, only somebody who's there can help you because a dayan can only judge based on what he sees, and I can't see what's actually happening in the school. I just received your letter. It's based on that which is, that which, that which is it, which it is said that salvation comes from great counsel. So I want you to consult with Yiras Shamayim, Askanim Yiras Shamayim, who are on location. Why? Because because really the only people who are able to judge a situation are people who are in it. Somebody from the outside can offer an outside perspective, and that's great, but if they can't see what's going on, they, uh, you know, there's a flip side to this. A judge can only judge based on what he sees, and a judge is not permitted to judge based on

14:46 Speaker 1 what he cannot see. Uh, this is actually, the Rebbe quotes this in many sichas. This is a Nedivi Yehuda. The Nedivi Yehuda asked the question, uh, why, uh, why, uh, aren't allowed to be put to death. I'm sorry, aren't allowed to be, aren't allowed to be put-- are, are allowed to be put to death if they, uh... I'm, I'm saying this totally wrong because, uh, 'cause I don't have it on the screen. The Nedivi Yehuda asked the question. we pass in this way that, uh, that if somebody's going to get , they're gonna get the death penalty from Bezdon, and they do teshuvah, we don't, uh, stay the death penalty. We give it to them anyway. They die anyway. Why? If they do teshuvah, if a person does teshuvah, and they are, and they're and God's gonna get them, we can, uh, we can get rid of that penalty. God's not gonna hurt them if they do teshuvah. But we hurt them even if they do teshuvah, and the Nedivi Yehuda's answer is, a judge is not permitted to judge something he can't see, and a judge can't see whether he did teshuvah. Since it's not something that can be seen, the judge can't change the ruling based on it. This is another education one, and I might make a whole shiur out of this at some point, but I'm giving you, uh, this because I'm not sure I will. Uh, this is the Rebbe on whether you can hit students, hitting students, corporal punishment

15:45 Speaker 1 for students. Um, I'm young enough that these letters are like, uh, are like relics to me. I'm like, "Oh, this is a-- this never happened, and I can't imagine that anybody in a yeshiva ever hit a student." But, uh, but I'm I'm told that, that-- I'm told you only have to be like five or ten years older than me to think that's laughable. So in any event, this letter is from Dalet-Reish-Ayin-Vav. That's the, that's the label in the letter. The letter is Tav-Shin-Tav-Zayin, and this letter doesn't say the dayan thing. This is just the first letter. I'll, I'll show you what I mean in a second. The Rebbe Um, I wanna-- I'm mainly I'm mainly, uh, coming to talk to you about your students and what you wrote to me about your students. It seems like you're being pretty harsh on them. It sounds like you're smacking the kids. It sounds like you're hitting your students. it should be understood, says the Rebbe, The Rebbe says, "This definitely is not appropriate for older students, and if I were not too afraid to make the following claim, I would say I don't even think it's inappropriate for your young students. I, I think really you probably shouldn't hit any of them." So the Rebbe's being hesitant about this, saying, uh, "I know the people." This is-- Remember, this is the year, um, this is the year nineteen fifty-seven. I think hitting students was pretty popular back then. Popular. I think it was pretty popular. But, uh,

16:57 Speaker 1 nonetheless, the Rebbe says, "Your older students, I really don't want you hitting them, and the younger students, I, uh, I strongly think you might wanna reconsider." I, I believe we discussed this last time you were visiting, says the Rebbe. And so I would like you to immediately change your behavior. A couple letters later, we have-- Clearly, this person wrote back to the Rebbe and said, "You don't know what kind of students I'm dealing with." That's, that's clearly from the context of this letter, Dalet-Tav-Yod, that this person wrote back to the Rebbe and says, "Yeah, I got your letter, and you're telling me not to hit the students, but they need to be hit. They are bad kids." And so the, the Rebbe writes back to in response I'm responding to your letter in response to my letter telling you to stop hitting the kids, and since I'm not there on the ground and a judge can only judge based on what he sees, it is possible um, dot, dot, dot, which might be smacking. Uh, he says that, uh, that, uh, it- it-- since I'm not on the ground and I can't tell, it might be that the, uh, that the, uh, that the behavior that you are seeing in these kids, the only way to deal with these particular children is to be very harsh with them and perhaps even hit them. And it might be, you know, you're the teacher, you're there, maybe these kids do need to be smacked. I can't tell

18:08 Speaker 1 you, says the Rebbe, for sure that they don't need to be hit. nonetheless, I still wanna know whether you're hitting them out of kindness or hitting them out of, out of, uh, out of stringency, whether you're hitting them out of hasid or out of gevurah. even in situations, and the Rebbe's saying could be this is one of those situations. Even in a situation where you're telling me you have no option but to be very harsh and hit these students, even in those situations where you must use corporal punishment, even so, I'd like you to be lenient, and I'd like you to show mercy. That a person should be very careful to always draw forth with their right hand, only push away with their left hand. The Rebbe's saying, uh- You're, you're right that I'm not there and I can't make the call whether some students need to be hit. But first of all, I want you to-- if you need to hit somebody, you better be out of kindness. And second of all, I think even in a situation that demands hitting, there's room for leniency and room for mercy, and the Rebbe's encouraging him not to use corporal punishment on the students. There are two situations I wanted to show you that are kind of out of the box. Uh, they don't really fit the, uh, the shita I'm building here. If I had to build a shita out of this year today, I would say that when it comes to education particularly, uh,

19:18 Speaker 1 the Rebbe used this a lot in education. That when it comes to education, the Rebbe's ha'aras for educators, I'm not sure how seriously to take them. And I, God forbid, don't mean not to take the Rebbe seriously about anything. I mean that the Rebbe tells educators frequently that even when he has a deeply held belief that is a shita by him, that since he's not in the school with the students, it's hard for him to make that call. He said that about learning about richas. He said that about, uh, issues that were going on in a school. He said that even about corporal punishment, which the Rebbe clearly is pretty strongly against, he still says, "Even in these situations, if I'm not in the school, you can't really tra-- you can't really trust my advice. This needs to be-- decisions need to be made by Yiddishneim ala'aser, people who are there, a dayan who can see what's going on and make that call." Uh, despite the fact that that is a shita by itself, I wanted to pull a couple sort of out-of-the-box ones just because they were interesting. This one down here is written to, uh, Schneur Zalman Gorelik, who asked the Rebbe about learning the halachas of Eretz Yisrael. He was in Eretz Yisrael, I believe, and he wanted to learn the dinim that have to do with Eretz Yisrael. Uh, I gue-I guess shmita, things like that. So beinin limud halachas of Eretz Yisrael. Sorry, this letter is labeled, uh, Gimel Tav

20:19 Speaker 1 Kuf Samech Daled, and it's from Chai Sivan of Tav Shin Tes Vav. So beinin limud halachas of Eretz Yisrael, when it comes to learning the halachas of Eretz Yisrael, Hineh ein l'dayan ela ma she'eineiv ro'es. You can-- a judge can only judge based on what he can see. U'meila, and therefore, yishamesh b'sefarim hanimtza u'matzu b'sivota. I want you to use sefarim that were written in Eretz Yisrael about this shailah. That is, some, some Rav in Chutz La'aretz writing about shmita is not really authoritative compared to a Rav in Eretz Yisrael writing about shmita. So he's telling him, "If you wanna learn certain dinim, I want you to go to Rabbanim who are seeing these things, not people who are talking about it in theory." This reminds me of stories that they always say in Smicha programs about people who, uh, who learned everything about treifas but had never seen a lung before. You know, the Rebbe's saying that if you can't see something, you really can't write about it. So when you're choosing what books to read, I want you to read sefarim on halacha about people who have practically dealt with the halacha, not theorists. And this last one, we saw this in a previous year, but I cannot stop bringing this letter up because every time I read it, I, I get excited all-- I get excited again. It is without a doubt the most entertaining letter from the Rebbe that we have ever seen in this year. So even-- I think now

21:18 Speaker 1 we've discussed it three times at least. This is a, uh, a group of, uh, Satmar Hasidim wrote to the Rebbe asking how he can say that the Six-Day War was a miracle. And the Rebbe has like a multi-page takedown of their approach that Zionists can't do mir- miracles can't happen through Zionists. And the Rebbe really pushes this idea very hard. Uh, but at the very end of the letter, one of the last things he says is really the ultimate zinger of the entire letter, and that is, "Dr. Kastner haya chul. Vechol ze b'mtzas nitzulo chu." And those chulus are et ceteras that are there on purpose. Dr. Kastner was one of the people who was, was, was a Zionist. That's what the chul is. He was a Zionist, and he wasn't, as far as I can tell, I mean, I don't wanna judge people after they're gone, but he certainly was not a, a famously Hasidishi Yid. So he was a-- Kastner was a Zionist, not necessarily a wonderful person either. And nonetheless, it was through him that the Satmar Rebbe himself was saved. That's the second v'chul. So Dr. Kastner, who was a Zionist, was the one who saved the Satmar Rebbe, and they cel-- and Satmar to this day celebrates that day as a miracle. So you're telling me that miracles can't happen through Zionists. I believe your biggest miracle you celebrate in Satmar happened through Dr. Kastner. But if you don't believe me, says the Rebbe, "Ein l'dayan ela ma she'eineiv ro'es.

22:25 Speaker 1 A judge can only judge based on what he sees. I wasn't-- I, I'm not in Eretz Yisrael. I didn't see the Six-Day War. I can't tell you for sure that the Six-Day War was a miracle." You know who gets to make that call? Yeshalu et dayanei Yerushalayim tzidkenu ve'sicanu elehem nisim. Ask the dayanim in Yerushalayim whether they feel there were miracles. They were-- they're dayanim. They saw, they saw the Six-Day War. Let them make that call. V'frat hasaraiv de'eida acharit, o is, uh, Rav Epstein, you should particularly ask him, v'dal. He will confirm that this, uh, that the Six-Day War was done in a way of miracles. So we've seen now a bunch of letters from the Rebbe saying that unless a Rav sees something personally, he is not necessarily trusted to make a definitive call about the specifics of that situation, particularly in Chinuch, but maybe in some other areas too. All part of a bigger shita we're building out from the Rebbe on ein l'dayan ela ma she'eineiv ro'es. That's it.

23:15 Speaker 2 Uh, just to my man Musger, this, uh, Rabbi Gorelik that, that last, last letter was written to, he was the mardash of Chabad.

23:25 Speaker 3 That's great. Um, my, my, my thought is like this is very interesting. I think the first letter should have been the last letter, meaning you go through all these things of saying it m-- that ein, ein, ein l'dayan ela ma she'eineiv ro'es, where the Rebbe basically goes through so many situations where he says, "I can't tell you what to do because I have no idea to see." And then you get co-- you finish it with a letter where the Rebbe says, "I see, therefore do." Like even though I'm in New York and you're in Toronto, and usually I would say, "Ein l'dayan ela ma she'eineiv ro'es," he gives a very, very direct instruction to do something, which means the Rebbe is basically saying, "I see."