קידוש בין שש לשבע (חלק 2)

00:00 Speaker 1 This is Igris. We are looking at letters that have to do with Kiddush. Kiddush specifically between the hours of six and seven. Uh, these are not letters that are from exactly fifty years ago. This is a special topic. And last time we talked about, uh, we talked about the makar, right? So, uh, we-- let me just find where we are. We talked about the origins of the Minag. We talked about its place in Halakha, how exactly the Minag is to be practiced. We saw Gemara. I have the page in front of you for those of you following on the screen. We saw Gemara that's concerned about Mazal Madim, that's Mars, and we saw that there are seven planets. Rashi explains this. There are seven planets or stars or moons or whatever you wanna call them, that God placed in a cycle on the hour, every hour to rule over the skies, starting on Wednesday, which was the day that he created the sun, moon, and stars. So that order from the beginning of the fourth day of creation is Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Venus, Mercury, and then the Moon, and then it goes back again to Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, Sun, Mercur-- Venus, Mercury, Moon, and you just keep on going. The cycle repeats forever. If you follow that from the beginning of Wednesday and you reach Friday, you will find that six after-- six hours after midday, it is Mazal Madim. It is time for Mars to be in charge for exactly one hour, six

01:06 Speaker 1 hours after midday on Friday. And since the Gemara is concerned about Mars, as we saw, we're not supposed to bloodlet on times that Mars is dominant. Since the Gemara is generally concerned about Mars, we are generally concerned about making Kiddush during that period of time. We asked why. We saw in Eila Shabbos. I'm scrolling down so you can take a look at it again, refresh your memory. We saw in Eila Shabbos that says that there are two Malachim, two angels that escort us home on Shabbos. That's not in Eila Shabbos, that's the Gemara. But it says, as for those two angels, who are the two angels who escort us home on Shabbos? Those are Malachim that are associated with Jupiter and Mars, respectively. The Jupiter angel, which is Tzaddkiel, he wants to give us a beracha. And the Mars angel, which is the Satan, the Samach Mem, uh, obviously does not wanna give us a beracha, but he's sort of forced to say Amen. It says the Eila Shabbos, he's only forced to say Amen when it's not his time. If Jupiter is dominant, so it's Tzaddkiel's moment, and we're before six o'clock, uh, we make Kiddush. Tzaddkiel says, "Give him a beracha," and Samach Mem says Amen. But if it happens to be the Mars time when Samach Mem is in charge, it doesn't work that way. Maybe Mars is dominant, so maybe it can't be forced to say Amen. Maybe it can even, Rachmanu Liitzlan, issue the opposite of a beracha. So it's

02:06 Speaker 1 dangerous to make Kiddush during a period of time where that second angel, the one associated with Mars, would be able to not give us a beracha or not agree to Tzaddkiel's beracha. Uh, we saw that the concern about Kiddush, uh, between six and seven is, uh, is not in Shulchan Aruch. Let's scroll down a little bit. We saw that it's not in Shulchan Aruch. It's not in Mechabed and Rama. We did see that it's in the Magen Avram. Uh, and we quoted the Magen Avram, we read it together. We saw there's an Aruch HaShulchan that doesn't take it very seriously. The Aruch HaShulchan quotes the Magen Avram and says, "I don't really understand what he's talking about. Ein Mazal L'Yisroel. We're not worried about constellations in general. Why would we, why would we be worried about these constellations?" And he pushes away the Magen Avram. He thinks the entire thing is rather silly. But we saw, and this is crucial for us, that we don't think it's rather silly. We have the Alter Rebbe. The Alter Rebbe brings the Magen Avram and, uh, and says, "Yesh Misradin." He doesn't bring it as a din, he brings it as a Yesh Misradin, which sounds like it's a Minag. Uh, but he brings the Minag as something to be careful about, that some people are careful not to make Kiddush during the hours of six and seven because of, uh, the same reasoning brought by the Magen Avram and the one that we saw in the Eila

03:04 Speaker 1 Shabbos, Madim Samael, our Moshel at that time. We then clarified through several letters from the Rebbe that the Minag is not to make Kiddush between six and seven PM always, that the time does not change, that it's not Sheas Manias, that the hours are not funny, that the minutes are not funny. It's always from six to seven PM with a couple exceptions. Rule number one, in New York, that's actually five fifty-six to six fifty-six, because in the eighteen hundreds, New York decided to set all of their watches back four minutes so that trains wouldn't crash into each other in Philadelphia. And because of that, the actual time in New York right now, it says twelve forty on my screen, but actually it's twelve thirty-six, or maybe that's-- maybe I got it backwards. Maybe it's four minutes forward. In any event, you know how time works. Um, in New York, when it is actually mid-- when it's actually midnight, it is-- when it's-- when the clock says midnight, it's actually eleven fifty-six. When the clock says six, it's actually five fifty-six and right. And therefore, right now, when it's actually twelve forty PM on the clock, that means it's actually twelve thirty-six. Just fun fact about New York. We're off by four minutes, and we know it. So here, it's always going to be five fifty-six to six fifty-six. There's nothing funny happening here. You don't have to do any calculations or check HaShalom charts. It will always be five fifty-six to six fifty-six, to six

04:10 Speaker 1 fifty-six, with one important exception, and that is during daylight savings. When daylight savings is in effect, it will be from seven to eight because we again artificially change our clocks, even though time itself is not changing. In New York, that would be six fifty-six to seven fifty-six. We saw several letters from the Rebbe demonstrating that this is how to do things. We read them all last time. We're not going to read them again. Uh, now we're starting part two. In part two, we wanna talk about the various Heiterim that are available, uh, and non-Heiterim. Heiterim people want to use to get out of this Minag or get around this Minag. We're gonna talk about what works, about what doesn't work, and how to use it in our homes and in our lives. But before we do the stuff I have on the page, I wanted to say something about white wine and challah. Uh, something that comes up often. I have no sources on the page for whether you can, uh-- I have no sources on our page for whether you can make Kiddush during six-- between six and seven on white wine instead of red wine or on challah instead of wine. And the reason why I have no sources on the page is because no sources exist. As far as I can tell, there's no source for this Minag. There is a, a one pesek somewhere who one time suggested challah as a possible substitute, but it's not in this Kabbalah. Uh, the

05:15 Speaker 1 idea that you might have heard that is very popular rumor, that somehow it makes the Minag better or different if it's on white wine or challah is, uh, is, is as far as I can tell, made up. Uh, and the reason why is because the Minag has nothing to do with Kiddush. The Minag has nothing to do-- Excuse me. The Minag has nothing to do with wine. The Minag is entirely tied to Kiddush. If you look back in Shulchan Aruch, you look back in the Magen Avram and the Alter Rebbe, no one ever says you can't drink wine, uh, or you can't make Kiddush on wine during this period of time. The problem seems to be that these Malachim are able to, uh, these Malachim, these planets, are able to get involved with us if we make Kiddush, specifically the words of Kiddush, during six and seven PM. So it has nothing to do with the wine color. It probably has nothing to do with the wi- with the Kiddush material. Um, it would be-- The same problem would apply if you made Kiddush on challah. The same problem probably would apply if you made Kiddush on white wine Uh, it's noteworthy based on this that you don't really have to be careful to drink the wine before six o'clock because there's no problem with drinking red wine between six and seven. So I had that happen at my Shabbos table this week. My wife asked this question, is that, uh, is that I made

06:12 Speaker 1 Kiddush at, like, six fifty-five. Like, we w-- or five fifty-five, excuse me. We were, uh, we were close, right before the time that, uh, that would have been a problem according to Mazal Madim. So we made Kiddush, like, a minute before that, and then, uh, by the time I was done handing out the wine to all the kids, who complained that they didn't get enough wine or want more wine or want grape juice. By the time the kids got it, they would have been drinking well into the sixth hour. My wife said, "Is that a problem?" I said, "Absolutely not. The whole problem is the Kiddush, not the drinking the wine. They heard Kiddush. It's over." Uh, another question that we can answer with this is one that I've heard asked before at fabrangens and such. People ask why we don't worry about drinking wine on, on other days of the week when Mazal Madim is dominant. Why don't we worry about drinking wine during the meal? You know, after I make Kiddush, why, why don't I worry about drinking wine in the middle of my soda if I'm between six and seven? And the answer, once again, is, is because this has nothing to do with wine and everything to do with Kiddush. Okay. That having been said, let's look at, uh, let's look at what we're actually covering today, which is a mixture of letters and Piskei Dinim regarding the leniencies we can use to get around the six to seven, uh, the

07:10 Speaker 1 six to seven issue, the six to seven minute. Uh, you're gonna see in these letters from the Rebbe two overall re-reasons to be lenient. Two reasons you could use to be lenient about making, uh, Kiddush between six and seven. One of them is Shem Mitzvas Lo Yadidha Davar Rah. One of them is that a person who keeps mitzvahs will not know evil. It's a Pasuk, and, uh, we generally hold that if somebody's in the middle of doing a mitzvah, they can't be harmed by anything, much less by Mazal Madim. Now, there is a mitzvah of making Kiddush. There's, uh, mitzvahs involved in the Shabbos soda. L'Chayim, you could get around the entire problem by saying, "I'm doing a mitzvah. Nothing can hurt me when I'm in the middle of doing a mitzvah." There's another excuse we're gonna see, which is Shem Psaim. Shem Psaim is a slightly insulting excuse that we use quite often, which means that God protects simpletons. Simple people, people who aren't too bright, God takes care of them. When people in general aren't careful about something, God protects the people who aren't smart enough to know that they should be careful. So we have these two ideas. The Rebbe's gonna use both of them in explaining some leniencies for the, uh, for making Kiddush between six and seven. And most of these len-leniencies appear in a series of letters the Rebbe wrote about the Minag in Eretz Yisrael. Apparently, there was a long-standing Minag in Er-in Eretz Yisrael not to be

08:15 Speaker 1 careful about this. The Minag was to be careful in America, but not in Eretz Yisrael. In the earliest letters that we have from the Rebbe about this, the Rebbe is shocked that this Minag exists and isn't sure it's reliable. So we have a letter from Igros Kodesh of Chelek Yod Beis. You'll find it on page two twenty-six. It's on your screen. The Rebbe writes, "The mashal kasuv she'ein cheshbon lezeh be'eretz hakodesh diban havesikin," in that you, which you write to me, that we are not worried, that, that, that we don't worry about m- not making Kiddush between six and seven in Eretz Yisrael. "Betach yeidiya," yeidiya, "tamim shel eilos she'ein cheshbon lezeh be'eretz hakodesh diban havesikin zeh bimeheim bar samcha." Says, "Certainly you will let me know the reasons of the people who are not worried about this, and you'll let me know whether they are reliable people." So the Rebbe says, uh, let-- "Look, if you have some source I'm not aware of, please let me know, but I'm not aware of any reason why in Eretz Yisrael they wouldn't worry about this. Eretz Yisrael is no different than anywhere else when it comes to the concerns of Mazal Madim." So the Rebbe, first of all, sounds surprised that this Minag exists and sounds like he would like to hear some sources and whether these sources are reliable. We have another letter. This is from Chelek Yod Gimel. This was from a year later. The page for that is kuf chaf. These letters are

09:14 Speaker 1 in a slightly different format on your screen because they're taken directly from Shulchan Aruch, which I would like to make a pitch for again. In certain areas like this, when we're dealing with Halakhah, the Rebbe's letters on Halakhah, there is no better collation than, uh, than Shulchan Aruch. Okay. "Mashal kasuv she'eretz hakodesh diban havesikin zeh," that which you wrote to me, says the Rebbe, that they're not careful about not making Kiddush between six and seven in Eretz Yisrael. "Hineh, hineh, im hu minag mekubal sham, yesh lemehad tamim shelo atchilah lekablu." If this is in fact a Minag Mekubal, notice the Rebbe's lotion. He's not sure it is. He says, "If this is in fact the established custom," and he's not sure that it is, "yesh lemehad," the Rebbe says, "If that's the case, I can think of the reason why they didn't accept this custom in the first place." "VHar ga'on beShulchan Aruch sham da'at kolashon yesh nishadam." First of all, in the Altar Rebbe Shulchan Aruch, it says, it says, "yesh nishadam," that only some people are careful. "K'ne es bar s'lat chilah yesh lekadish meyad. La atchilah," people should be making Kiddush immediately. We talked about this last time. "Ach klalom yehi be sha'ah anal," even though sometimes the two times two intersect, sometimes they don't. "Ve'atam la'edah kabbalas minag zeh," the reason why some people didn't take on this Minag. "Af li k'shein zeh meyad bevai, kullo yesh lemehad mishum sheShem Mitzvas Lo Yadidha Davar Rah." L'Chayim, people did not take on

10:16 Speaker 1 this Minag, says the Rebbe, because they are assuming that Shem Mitzvas Lo Yadidha Davar Rah, that somebody who keeps mitzvahs will not know any sort of evil thing, that mitzvahs protect us. So the Rebbe makes a limud zchus on those in Eretz Yisrael who are not careful about this Minag, saying that they presumably are doing it in order to keep the mitzvah of Kiddush, specifically in order to do the mitzvah of making Kiddush immediately when they come home from Shul. And since that is a special mitzvah to make Kiddush immediately when you come home from Shul, you can make the argument that that mitzvah protects them. And it's impossible to do both of those things at the same time. You can't-- When you come home from Shul, if you come home from Shul exactly at six o'clock, you now have, you now have a choice. You're going to do the mitzvah of making Kiddush immediately, or are you going to wait an hour? So the Rebbe says, they might be saying to themselves that I'm going to choose the mitzvah of making Kiddush immediately, and since I'm doing a mitzvah, that's going to put me right into Mazal Madim's face. I'm gonna be right under Mars, and I don't have to worry about that because when a person is doing a mitzvah and they have no other choice but to encounter a Mazal that wouldn't be good for them, they're protected from that Mazal. This is the Rebbe's limud zchus. This is not the Rebbe

11:11 Speaker 1 giving a hat there. But this is the Rebbe's limud zchus on what is happening in Eretz Yisrael, is maybe they're so careful about making Kiddush as soon as they come home that they end up, uh, they end up relying on the mitzvah to protect them from the issue of Mazal Madim. We have one more letter to look at. This is from chaf hei tammuz and taf shin chaf hei, and it's, uh, in Igros Kodesh Melumim. I think they ult-- It's-- I, I think they ultimately, after the printing of this Shulchan Aruch, put it in a regular volume of Igros. But the Rebbe says this, "Keyved hamasham kigoyim da, da sh'ba'av," this is the end of a letter. I'm only showing you the last line of it because it's all we need for this purpose. Uh, this is something that is, uh, when it comes to all things that people, that people stomp on with their heels, when it comes to all things that people generally don't take seriously, including this Minag, "L'chem dinish leinagu Shem psaim Hashem." We can say that in any place where the Minag is not active, "Shem psaim Hashem," that Hashem protects fools, Hashem protects simple people. So we see here the two major Haterim that the-- that we have to get out of the six and seven are sort of being, uh, bannered around by the Rebbe. The Rebbe's introducing the idea that maybe in Eretz Yisrael they don't have to keep it because mitzvahs protect them. Maybe in Eretz

12:08 Speaker 1 Yisrael they don't have to keep it because they are simpletons and Shem psaim Hashem and God protects simple people. But you certainly don't see the Rebbe happy with the fact that they're not keeping it. I went and looked among Chabad poskim. As far as I can tell, uh, all Chabad poskim say that this should be kept in Eretz Yisrael the same way it's kept in America. There might be a couple who don't, but that's certainly the majority position. So, uh, as a bottom line, in Eretz Yisrael, the Minag would not be any different than it is in America, and you can see the Rebbe's discomfort with the idea that there might be a difference in Eretz Yisrael over this Minag. The Rebbe does work with it, but he's clearly is uncomfortable with it. And probably based on that, Chabad Rabbonim generally say that in Eretz Yisrael you should be careful So now let's talk about what to do with guests, what to do with Shalom Bayis, what to do with small children. We're gonna try to end on time. I think we will, but if we go over five minutes, please forgive me. Talk about guests first because we have straight-up letters about this from the Rebbe. There's something called Likutei Mahari"ch. The Mahari"ch died in the, uh, in the nineteen twenties. So a, uh, an Acharon, but not, not, not a very recent Acharon. He is the source for the idea that we might be able to be lenient when it comes to guests.

13:03 Speaker 1 He writes, uh, "Lehatem Mishum Terach Mitzvah." I pulled this out of someone else's so it's not his exact words. It was very hard to find Likutei Mahari"ch. But he says that we can be mater when it comes for Terach Mitzvah, and Hachnasas Orchim is a mitzvah. So, uh, having guests in your home is a mitzvah, and in order to not inconvenience the guests, he says, you can make kiddush between six and seven in order to protect the mitzvah of Hachnasas Orchim. And, uh, he says there that this only applies to poor, uh, to poor guests, guests who are impoverished. But at the same time, a lot of other poskim have brought this brought this into their own shulhas to say that when it comes to guests, we can be lenient because there is a mitzvah of Hachnasas Orchim. And as we saw earlier, first of all, if we're doing a mitzvah, we don't have to worry about Mazzal if we're in the middle of doing a mitzvah. There is a mitzvah of Hachnasas Orchim. The mitzvah of Hachnasas Orchim might get in the way of our Minag to keep six to seven, and if it's a mitzvah versus a Minag, you know who wins. The problem with this is that we have a letter from the Rebbe that very explicitly says the opposite. So we have no choice but to pass him like the Rebbe. The Rebbe does not believe by any means that we should, uh, that we should push off this Minag when

14:06 Speaker 1 we have guests. Uh, so the Rebbe writes in this letter. This letter is-- Oh, no, I don't have the source. It's an Igros somewhere. You'll find it in . It says Sham there, and I don't remember what letter was before. Okay. says the Rebbe. In answer to your question, that you have a guest. In answer to your question, that you have a guest and you wanna make kiddush is certainly reasoning that had been sent to the Rebbe was, "Can't I make kiddush between six and seven w- when I have guests?" Because guests are having guests is and, uh, and I'll be protected by the mitzvah, uh, from any mazal, and this is a Minag. The Rebbe writes back No, can't do it. Doesn't work. Let's talk about your guest. What mitzvah is a guest doing? So a guest comes to your house. You're doing a big mitzvah. You have a guest. What mitzvah is the guest doing? No mitzvah at all. So what protection does the guest have from Mars? And the answer is none at all. Therefore, we don't have any place for the, for, for the protection, for the guarantee of s-somebody keeping a mitzvah, not encountering any evil. We have a problem, is that you might be safe, but your guest is not gonna be safe. And then the Rebbe adds on the end, and therefore, since your guest isn't safe, you're also not safe. So this is easy to understand. There's a footnote here that says from the just to understand

15:26 Speaker 1 this letter, which is with, uh, the of the Rebbe is a little difficult to unpack. I wanna read this footnote. It says, What's the whole reason I'm rushing kiddush? It's for my, uh, and putting it between six and seven. It's for my guest. And since doing that will hurt my guest, what kind of mitzvah is it to welcome guests into your home and hurt them? So if we're worried about this causing a negative effect on somebody, making kiddush between six and seven, if we say it's dangerous and it can hurt somebody, then we know that, uh, that since the guest is not doing a mitzvah, he's not protected, so he's gonna get hurt. And so now why am I doing kiddush between six and seven? To hurt the guest. Is that a mitzvah? No. So I'm not protected either. You understand? It's a, it's a subtle point, but it's an interesting one . It says that when I make kiddush between six and seven to help my guest, I'm hurting my guest because my guest doesn't have a mitzvah to shield him. And since I'm hurting my guest, I'm not doing a mitzvah either 'cause a mitzvah of Hachnasat Orchim is not hurting your guests. So the Rebbe says you absolutely cannot make this argument for a guest. I'm gonna put a footnote on this and say, we're gonna get back to this. There are situations where you definitely can make kiddush between six and seven for a guest, but not this one. Not because

16:32 Speaker 1 you wanna make things more convenient for your guests. Uh, but first, in order to understand when we can use that exception, we need to look at Shalom Bayis. When it comes to Shalom Bayis, we don't have anything explicit from the Rebbe, but we do have a tshuva from Rav Bryne. Why do I say a tshuva from Rav Bryne? Well, if you go on asktherav.com, you will find his quick English answers to questions that are asked. But if you look below those English answers, sometimes he will write like six pages, uh, explaining his psak that he wrote in one sentence. And these are, for all intents and purposes, shailas and tshuvas, and they're, they're, they're very well-written. They're worth reading. So, uh, next time you check Ask The Rav, scroll down and, uh, and see what he writes in Hebrew. So Rav Bryne writes about Shalom Bayis regarding kiddush between six and seven. Says when it comes to Shalom Bayis, Shalom Bayis Adam, obviously the most important thing is Shalom Bayis. Why? Because Shalom Bayis is a and this is a Minag. And if it's a Minag versus Shalom Bayis is going to win. We don't have to worry about any danger that will come from making kiddush between six and seven in order to maintain Shalom Bayis and not have your wife and kids angry at you because there is a rule that mitzvah, somebody doing a mitzvah is protected from problems. What Rav Bryne explains here is something that I kind of said outside,

17:32 Speaker 1 which is that the rule of Shem and Mitzvah, that when I'm in the middle of a mitzvah, I'm protected from any negative effects, only applies when you can't have both at the same time. So I can't have it. If, if, if I, if, if I'm in a family where the family is going to argue if I make kiddush between six and seven, excuse me, if I don't make kiddush between six and seven, then I have a choice. I can either do the dangerous thing or the but I can't have both. I can't have Shalom Bayis and my Minag. If I can't have both Shalom Bayis and my Minag, then I can't have-- Then what I'm also saying is I can't have both the and the Minag. If I can't have the and the Minag, choose the . But in a lot of cases, that's not the way it comes out. In a lot of cases, I have a choice, and in a lot of cases, I can do both the and the Minag if I'm a little bit creative. So says Rav Bryne, The reason why, in general, we don't say that the mitzvah of kiddush protects us from Mazal Madim is because we can keep the mitzvah of kiddush and also keep the Minag. How? By making kiddush earlier and making kiddush later. But in this case, but when there's a concern about Shalom Bayis, I can't do both at the same time. I have to choose, and if I have to choose, I'm

18:36 Speaker 1 going to choose the mitzvah . However, he says down here, but don't rely on this latkhila and try to avoid it however possible. What does that mean practically? Practically, it means we should be discussing with our wives, we should be discussing with our children and with anybody else in our house who maybe doesn't want Shalom if, uh, if we, if we, if we keep this Minag, the importance of the Minag. That Minag-- That Minhag Chabad are the thing that keeps us together, that keeps us strong throughout the generations, that there's a real basis to this, to maybe have them listen to Shir number one, where we explain that there really is a, that this is not a new Minag. This goes all the way back to the Gemara concern about Mazal Madim, that it's in the Shulchan Aruch. We should do whatever we can to explain to our families, uh, that, that it's important not to make kiddush between six and seven. If, however, that fails and the final decision is, am I gonna keep the mitzvah of Shalom Bayis, or am I going to keep the of not making kiddush under Ma-under Mazal Madim, the obviously wins. And not only does the win in that case, in that case, since the would be impossible with the Minag, we're protected from the negative impacts of the Minag by the . So that's the deal by Shalom Bayis. To summarize Shalom Bayis in a sentence, convince your families not to make Kiddush between six and seven.

19:39 Speaker 1 If you really can't convince them, obviously the choice is Shalom Bayis over the minute. But that is only if you can't convince them otherwise. One more note, what about small children? Children have a lot of trouble waiting, especially if you're gonna keep them up late, you're gonna have them wait until, uh, until after seven to make Kiddush. Maybe it's past their bedtimes, maybe they'll be hungry. It is important to note that it is, uh, it is forbidden to not feed the kids before Kiddush, and it might be a mitzvah to feed the kids before Kiddush. We should specifically be feeding our children before Kiddush. This is in the Aruch HaShulchan. You have the Aruch HaShulchan two sixty-nine three. The Aruch HaShulchan says the following, It is mutar to feed a child food before Kiddush. Generally speaking, we're not allowed to eat before Kiddush. But a child, it is mutar to give them food at, before the night Kiddush and food before the day Kiddush. And it's asur to make them wait. It's asur to make them suffer. If the kid says, "I'm hungry," it's asur to say to a child who's under bar mitzvah, "Hey, uh, you have to wait till Kiddush." If they're hungry, you have to feed them. Because generally speaking, parents have a rule that they're, that we are not allowed to feed children forbidden foods, but this only applies to foods that are intrinsically forbidden. But when the food is mutar, but it happens to be a time where the food

20:50 Speaker 1 is asur. So it's food that is mutar, but I can't eat it right now because it's the time of Kiddush. And then it's mutar to give it to a child. As a matter of fact, we give kosher food to children on Yom Kippur for that same reason. Even a child who is not going to be in a sakana if he fasts, we feed children, uh, kosher food as long as they are allowed to have it, even if it's in a time when generally speaking, other people aren't allowed to have it. Point here is that not only is it, not only are you allowed to feed children before Kiddush, uh, it might be asur. It might be asur not to feed them before Kiddush. So if the issue in your family is not your wife, or if you're a wife listening, if the issue in the family is not your husband, if the issue isn't the adults, but the issue is the children, that the children will complain if they have to wait until after seven o'clock to hear Kiddush, then there's a very simple answer, and that answer is to feed them. Not just mutar to feed them, probably obligated to feed them. So feed the kids before Kiddush. Absolutely feed the kids before Kiddush. Not only is that not a halakhic problem, it is a possible cheov. So let's summarize everything we talked about today and all of the, uh, possible heterim and the ways that we deal with different situations when it comes

21:49 Speaker 1 to Kiddush between six and seven. First of all, we said that if you are going to be lenient about Kiddush between six and seven, it's going to be for one of two reasons. It's either going to be because you believe that when you're doing the mitzvah of Kiddush or the mitzvah of Shalom Bayis or some particular mitzvah, that you're not damaged by anything when you're doing that mitzvah. That's one reason. And the other one is shomer shabbes, that we believe that simple people who don't care about things like this generally are not harmed by them, that simple people are not harmed by things God protects them. Uh, I will note that the reason the Aruch HaShulchan gives that we don't do it because, uh, because ein ma'aseh l'Yisrael is something that the Rebbe is daye mi she'yedayim. The Rebbe really does not like that answer. He doesn't quote the Aruch HaShulchan, but he pushes away that answer whenever people mention it in letters by saying that clearly the Gemara itself is concerned about ma'aseh madim and people living in even in Eretz Yisrael, uh, in, in Bavel, people in the Gemara are concerned about, about ma'aseh madim. So there's no reason to say we shouldn't be concerned, and they were concerned. That's a, that's a strange argument from the Aruch HaShulchan and a little difficult to understand in the first place. Uh, in Eretz Yisrael, we said most Chabad Poskim say that, that we should keep the same rules, uh, six to seven, no Kiddush.

22:47 Speaker 1 The Rebbe's clearly not happy with the, not happy with those who don't. He offers justifications, but they're definitely shaky justifications. The Rebbe is generally not happy with people who aren't keeping this minhag in Eretz Yisrael. When it comes to guests, we said there's, uh, room for leniency for some people. There's the Kutim Arech, but that leniency is not for us. We have the Rebbe saying to be strict, uh, because you put your guest in danger. When you put your guest in danger, you're not doing a mitzvah anymore. The thing I wanted to point out at the end was that let's say that we have a guest who will leave and not be our guest if we don't make Kiddush between six and seven. Now we're back in the Shalom Bayis territory. Remember, the rule was, as we learned from Rav Ryan, regarding Shalom Bayis and regarding any daraysa that's up against this minhag, that if the two are impossible together, we choose the daraysa. There's a mitzvah daraysa of hachnasat orchim, and if that mitzvah daraysa will be impossible if I don't make Kiddush between six and seven, then obviously I'm gonna choose the daraysa. So if you are running a Chabad house or you have people coming to your house, you have guests who you wanna, uh, you wanna welcome in to do the mitzvah of hach-of hachnasat orchim, and they literally won't come or literally will leave if you are not making Kiddush between six and seven, then that's very clear. That's a

23:46 Speaker 1 daraysa versus a minhag, and we choose the daraysa. But what would be more-- what would be better is to explain to them the importance of not making Kiddush between six and seven or otherwise structure the day so that the problem doesn't arise in the first place. This same principle applies, of course, to Shalom Bayis. Uh, Shalom Bayis being a mitzvah daraysa, we should try to explain or work around it in a way that will make it possible to have both Shalom Bayis and not Kiddush between six and seven. If that's not possible, the daraysa is gonna beat the minhag because, and, and because the daraysa beats the minhag, you'll have the additional protection of somebody keeping a mitzvah being protected from negative outcomes. When it came to small children, we said feed them. Not just feed them because it's mutar, but feed them possibly because it is obligatory and maybe asur not to feed them. Okay. Thank you all very much. Questions, comments?

24:35 Speaker 2 Um, I don't really have any questions. I think this was very thorough, and I think it was very good. Um, the, uh, I did have the question, but you answered it, which was about the difference between the Shalom Bayis question and a, uh, hachnasat orchim question. Um, but I guess the answer is that you could, you could, you could fulfill both with the hachnasat orchim. You just fulfill it an hour later. The other thing I, I think that, uh, that is important is, uh, maybe, I don't know, it's, uh, it's that That a lot of times when it comes to these things, the reason why there is so much discord or pushback from, from, from family members and everybody else is 'cause they don't see it as being something genuine. And the minute it's something that's genuine and it's something they see, you know, if the husband's a shagai, no-nobody in the family is gonna say, uh, "Come on, stop it. Make kiddush now." I don't know. Just a thought.

25:25 Speaker 1 So a couple comments. Um, one is, if I'm not mistaken, and I think Shloime can back this up, back in the day, there was never a discussion of the extra four minutes here, four minutes there. Would we include that in the Shehecheyanu that we keep six to seven, and the four-minute leeway is pretty much whatever was became in a yes already? Because I think it's been a recent discovery of... Not, it's not a discovery of the time difference, but a discovery of people actually keeping these four minutes off. When I was younger, I never heard that in my life, and I think Shloime mentioned this also once. That's one question.

26:01 Speaker 2 Yeah, I-

26:01 Speaker 1 Um, the other que-

26:02 Speaker 2 -heard it either, and I definitely think it would fall under the Shehecheyanu. Um, I, I... This, this was relatively new to me too. I think only in the past five years or so has this four-minute thing, um-

26:10 Speaker 1 Right

26:11 Speaker 2 ... uh, we always just did six to seven. Yeah. I'm with you.

26:15 Speaker 1 Uh-