בחירת מקום לימודים לילדכם

00:00 Speaker 1 We are looking in volume twenty-eight. We are at letter Yud Tav Tav Nun Dalet. That is from Menachem Av of Tav Shin Lamed Gimel. So we went a month ahead, but you'll forgive me, there's not a ton going on in Tammuz, so we might jump around a little bit until we get to Elul, where things will be packed again. In any event, we are in the middle of the summer, and, uh, I'm sure a lot of people in the room know Nachman Yehoshua Twersky. I, I don't know him personally, I only know of him. Some of you, he was probably your teacher, right? Do we have people here who were taught by him? Okay. Surley we have. I'm sure others too. I, I see. I see. Sur-Surley was taught- I was his neighbor for a while. Yeah. Well, I understand he's a very special person, and if at the end of this year you have stories, I'd, I'd love to hear them. I don't know a lot about his background besides the things that everybody knows, which are below the line right here. Uh, Rachmastrivka. He's the brother of the current Rebbe of Rachmas-Rachmas- Rachmastrivka, I think is how you say it. I have no idea. Um, he comes from a Rebbeish family, Pelesh Rebbes, and, uh, I don't know if he was directly in line to be the next Rebbe, 'cause I don't know if he was the older or younger brother or what the story was there. But I do know that his

01:00 Speaker 1 parents were not happy when he came to Lubavitch. That is clear from several letters that he has between him and the Rebbe, that he came to learn in seven-seventy, and his parents were very displeased. Uh, in a letter that we have from this year, he writes to the Rebbe again saying his parents are really unhappy, what is he supposed to do? And the Rebbe's answer to him is short, but also reveals the data that the Rebbe has in many letters, which we're gonna look at today. So let's look at the letter. Again, this is Yud Tav Tav Nun Dalet. The Rebbe writes, "Omnambi im yaseh kipsaktin ba'ar ba'shulchan aruch yadea sei simin reish mem?" Question mark, exclamation point. Do they... Ar-are you not aware of? Are you not ready to do according to the psaktin barur and Shulchan Aruch Yoreh Deah at the end of simon two hundred and forty. He says, "Kfar du ba'ze. Shnikve psaktin ze lei bilchas tamatira." We've already talked about the fact that this is specifically not a psaktin that is in Hilchas Tamatira. "Ki im be Hilchas Kavod, Kibud Av va'em." It's a halacha in Hilchas Kibud Av va'em. "Ve kaalah," and it should be simple and understand. "Az kara latim." The Rebbe seems frustrated by the question. My parents don't want me learning in a certain place, I wanna keep on learning. What am I supposed to do? The Rebbe says, "Psaktin barur in Shulchan Aruch." Let's look and see what he's talking about. The psaktin barur in

02:04 Speaker 1 Shulchan Aruch is over here. Make it a little bit bigger on your screen. Yoreh Deah two forty, sif is twenty-five, kaf. "The Mechabber writes, "Im ha'av writes to the Sha'ar Hazen, mot to the Kav Min Ha'alim ken, ha'av ben tera." That's not the part I wanted to show you, but now you know. "Talmid sh'retzah," here we go. "Talmid sh'retzah lalech l'makom acher." If a student wants to go study in another place, "Shupeteach, shiddu siman berakh bah talmuda lifnei ha'rav sh'shame." And he's certain that he's going to see a siman berakh from learning from that rabbi over there. "Vav yi'me khabeim," the father, he objects. "Lifshi de'eg be'is ir," he's worried that in that city, "im dikhakhavim alim," he's worried that in that city there are goyim that might kill him or might cause trouble for him. "Ein tzarakh lishmeil aviv ba'zeh," even though there's a tsakana, and certainly in lesser cases, as the Rebbe will explain in a lot of his letters in Sichas, uh, the father has no right to, um... I don't know. That's not what it says in Shulchan Aruch, that the father has no right. The father has every right. The son does not have to listen to him. "Ein tzarakh lishmeil aviv ba'zeh," the s-son does not have to listen to the father in this regard. So this is in Hilchas Kibud Av va'em. That's not in Hilchas Tamatira. In Hilchas Kibud Av va'em already says that if a child wants to learn somewhere, their father doesn't get to override

03:06 Speaker 1 them. So Rabbi Twersky is writing to the Rebbe saying, "My parents are opposed," and the Rebbe's saying back, "Who cares? It's a pair sh'Shulchan Aruch." Uh, this is not a unique answer that Rabbi Twersky got. Several people got this answer. Um, we have over here a letter from, it's in volume twenty-four. It's on your screen. The letter is Tes Ayin Hey. This is in Tav Shin Chaf Vav. This is to Ha'avrek David. This is David Tachtel in Rene Barak. I don't know him. Do anybody here know him? I don't know him. Pitas Tachtel is how he might be related. "Shalom Uvrach," he writes. "Amar li lechtavim yemei lev shabbes kodesh b'shelb nigel lemuda." You asked me on Erev Shabbos Kodesh about your studies. "Apeleh asafek." The Rebbe says, "Once again, I'm surprised that you're even in doubt." "Hai psaktin barur hu." Once again, very similar lashon to what he wrote to Rabbi Twersky. "Psaktin barur," it's a very clear halacha. "Lolam, lolam yilmad adam makom sh'libo chafetz." A person should always learn in a place where their heart wants to learn. "Ugdela ha'ara zu ad k'dechak," and this ha'ara is so significant. "She'ein tzarakh v'khulu, ain yare dea sei simin reish mem." This is such a big ha'ara that you don't need to presumably listen to your parents if they don't want you to. See, and he's metayim to the siman in Shulchan Aruch, where it says that you don't have to listen to your parents if they don't want you to do that. The

04:10 Speaker 1 Rebbe then gives him a berakh that he'll continue with Sheked and, uh, Sheked and Hasmaden is learning of Chassidus and, uh, Chassidus and Nigla, and tells him he's cer-certain that he's keeping khitas. So what the Rebbe's basing a lot of this on, we have to go back a little bit. Um, uh, when I said makom sh'libo chafetz, did anybody get triggered? I got triggered the first time I saw it, to use the parlance of the age. The makom sh'libo chafetz usually means that you should learn the stuff you wanna learn. Usually, "Lelam yilmad adam makom sh'libo chafetz" means that if I feel like learning Chassidus instead of, I don't know, Tanakh, I should learn Chassidus instead of Tanakh. So there's a Gemara in Masechet Avodah Zarah. It's on Yud Tes Amud Alef. I have it on your screen. Let me make it a little bit bigger. The Rebbe's basing this on a Maharsha, as he says in a footnote in the Sicha. Let me take you back. So Avodah Zarah Yud Tes Amud Alef. This is a great story if you don't know it already. "Levi un'rebbi Shimun v'Rebbi yasak kavod d'Rebbi." Once upon a time, Levi and Rebbi Shimun bar Rebbi were sitting in front of Rebbi. "Vekhapas ek sidra," and they were trying to figure out what to learn. "Sal ek sifra l- Levi. Khapas ek sidra sal ek sifra." Okay, they were trying to figure out what book to learn. "Levi amar, 'Les nan Mishlei.'" Levi said, "I'd really like to learn

05:10 Speaker 1 Mishlei. That's what I'm into. I'd like to learn Mishlei today." "Rebbi Shimun v'Rebbi," he said, "Les nan Tehillim. I'd rather learn Tehillim." So they're, they're arguing over which drashah Rebbi is supposed to give. "Kaf le Levi v'eis v'Tehillim." Uh, Rebbi Shimun bar Rebbi was able to prevail over Levi, and they ended up bringing Rebbi Tehillim. So they brought Tehillim to be taught. "Ki matov. Aha ki b'seres Hashem cheftzei." They got to the line in Tehillim. "Ki seres Hashem kim, seres, ki im b'teres Hashem cheftzei." That the desire is the Torah of Hashem. "Parash Rebbi v'amar," Rebbi then explained and he said, "Ein adam lemed Torah elim makom sh'libo chafetz." Chafetz, a person shall learn Torah in an area which he wants, meaning that you should only be learning the books you're interested in. "Amar Levi," and Levi said, "Rebbi, nasata lan radush lamed." In that case, Rebbi, you've given me permission to get out of here because I don't wanna learn Tehillim. So it sounds like means that you should learn the sefer that you want. Later on, Rava says and that is noticed a little bit different from what Rebbe says up here, which is . I'm pointing that out to you 'cause it's exactly the . The Maharsha says, . That has to do . That a person should always learn from the place that his heart desires. means you should learn the sefer he wants . That means in the location or by the certain Rav that . And that's why it's

06:31 Speaker 1 brought down that way in Shulchan Aruch. This is a footnote that the Rebbe put at the bottom of a letter where he is tying to all the things I just showed you. He said, "Check out the Maharsha there, in Masechet Beitzah, in Shulchan Aruch, and the Rebbe says ." Then when it says the word reitze in Shulchan Aruch, it says in Shulchan Aruch that, uh, that he wants to go somewhere. This is hinting to the fact that this is something that cannot be controlled by a parent 'cause a parent can't really know what a child wants. is where a child desires to learn, and you can't enforce that. A parent can decide what might be best for their child in practice, but they can't decide what might be best for their child in desire, and the Torah is telling us that where the child wants to learn desire-wise should come first. There's a footnote here that I have on the page in front of you. It's at the bottom of the Likutei Sichos. I forget which Sicha 'cause I didn't write it down. It's a footnote in Likutei Sichos where the Rebbe gets into this issue and adds another point that we can add to our discussion. It says , uh, which is the din in Shulchan Aruch we just read. You don't have to listen to your father if he doesn't want you to learn in a certain place. He says that this is brought in, in Hilchos Kibbud Av VaEm. You'll remember from

07:30 Speaker 1 the letter to Rabbi Twersky that he also stressed that for some reason. We're about to find out why. The Rebbe is very interested by the fact that it's in Hilchos Kibbud Av VaEm, not in Hilchos Talmud Torah. the Rebbe says, "Why would the Shulchan Aruch have put it there?" Because that when it comes to success in Torah study, success in Torah study is one of the ways you show honor to your parents. So it's, uh, it's, it belongs in Hilchos Kibbud Av VaEm because on the list of ways to show honor to your parents is by succeeding in your Torah studies, and frequently that means defying your parents and going to learn where they don't want you to. So the Rebbe says the reason why it's there in the first place is because it's supposed to, uh, it's supposed to be a fulfillment of Kibbud Av VaEm, not just an area where you don't have to. I think most people read that section in Shulchan Aruch, say, "Here's the exceptions. You have to honor your parents except when they tell you to go learn in another place." That's not how the Rebbe is understanding this. The Rebbe is understanding this as you need to re- you need to respect your parents, and one manifestation of that is learning wherever you want, even if they're not particularly interested in you learning there. With that background, I wanna look at a couple other letters. There's a letter that is written to Yehudis Chaya Sternbuch. I don't know

08:35 Speaker 1 who she is. I wonder if maybe she's Dovid, Dovid Soloveitchik's wife because Dovid Soloveitchik married Yehudis Stern, Sternbuch, who was the sister of Moshe Sternbuch, but I don't know if the dates work. So I, I'm not sure who this is. Might just be someone with a similar name. In any case, the Rebbe writes and I'm responding to the letter that you wrote to me recently. the Rebbe says, "When it comes to things that are tied to our thought and our feelings of the heart, when it comes to or learning Torah, keeping mitzvahs, ." If a person wants to succeed in these areas, they need to follow the path of our Chafa- of our Chachamim. That they do it in a way that their heart desires. And this is included in this is how the heart wants to do something. He says, "You'll find this as a psak din in Shulchan Aruch in Yoreh De'ah," once again, going back to our Yoreh De'ah in Shulchan Aruch. I've already explained once, and he's actually referring to a Sicha, not the previous letter that we saw, but in any case, . Once again, I've explained a few times why this is not in Hilchos Talmud Torah, why this halakha that you learn in is not a learning halakha, but a honoring your parents halakha. because the Seder in Torah is also Torah. It's just a fun expression, means the order of things appear is also Torah, so we can study the order of things. From here we spec-

09:59 Speaker 1 from here we see that it is, it's emphasized that Kibbud Av has nothing to do with the question of where a child should learn. Certainly, this needs to be done in a way of, uh, darkei naham, where there's not particular arguments. We don't wanna, we don't wanna upset anybody. It certainly is best to not get involved in any debates. So, uh, he's... The, the Rebbe's saying that just because the Shulchan Aruch allows a child to learn wherever they want to doesn't mean they have to throw it in their parents' face. It should be the darkei naham, darkei shalom, and the child should be respectful about the fact that they're not gonna budge on where they've decided they wanna learn. The Rebbe says this to a lot of baal teshuva, that, uh, when the, when the parents see that you're more careful with mitzvahs because you're learning in a yeshiva, wherever you wanna learn, one of the ways that shuts down the arguments is when they see how respectful you are. So you're going to... He's giving her the advice, or whoever she's passing this along to the advice, that they should respectfully refuse to learn where their parents want them to learn, and that the respect that they're showing will actually get rid of some of the arguments and the problems. It ends with a berakha down here, which we don't have to read right now. This letter is printed at least in part in Likutei Sichos, and, uh, I think that abbreviation is .

11:18 Speaker 1 I think they're just not saying exactly who the, uh, progeny is, that . But if I'm wrong, please correct me. of, I think of your children . Uh, this is a letter I didn't say where it was, but people listening, they can't always see. It's in volume twenty-four. The letter is . It's from sixty years ago Uh, almost exactly 60 years ago. How do you like that? Uh, the Rebbe says, "In the middle of the school year, I didn't wanna write to you about this." "And I had a couple reasons why I didn't wanna discuss this with you in the middle of the school year." So the Rebbe says, "First of all, I can't go against . Your son can learn wherever he wants. That's . So one reason I didn't wanna bring this up is because I have nothing to add, and I can't disagree with the Shulchan Aruch." "And furthermore," the Rebbe loves stressing this, "this is brought in and not in ." The Rebbe says on the other hand, "I didn't wanna cause problems in the house." "I was hoping that the issue would resolve itself." That's why I felt justified in not having this discussion with you in the middle of the school year, because I can't say anything different than Shulchan Aruch anyway, and I didn't wanna cause a fight where there didn't need to be one. But now it's time to sign up for school. It's enrollment period. So now that it's time for enrollment, um, that's supposed to

12:53 Speaker 1 be . It's a typo. The Rebbe says, "I'm therefore, uh, permitting myself to ask you or to tell you that it is my sincere hope, my strong hope, that you and your wife will both allow your son to learn in the place where his heart desires. Uh, and it would be best if that was with your ." Doesn't have to be, right? 'Cause Shulchan Aruch says they don't have to agree. But it would be best if you agreed as well. I also wanna point out, the Rebbe is gunning for this child. I don't know who this kid is, but the Rebbe's got his back. Says, the desire of your child to learn in this particular place is very strong. It's not something that's going to pass. It's not a temporary, uh, infatuation. As has become clear over the past several months. That means that this has to happen, and if it doesn't, there's gonna be negative outcomes. He's going to be upset. It's gonna damage his relationships. He's not gonna do well in school. He's gonna, he's gonna end up hating the place where you do send him. He's gonna have, uh, feelings of resentment toward the place that he does go. And many other problems. The Rebbe's listing the issues of prevent- of preventing children from going where they wanna go. These are negative effects that any parent, and certainly parents who care about Torah and mitzvahs, so certain wouldn't want to happen. So certainly then it's, uh, you must do everything possible, and

14:27 Speaker 1 you have to do it in a way of . It's basically, if you don't want these terrible things to happen, you're going to need to take action and let the child go where they want to go. This strikes a little bit to a discussion we've been having lately in our chat about, uh, about making sure that, uh, , making sure that children find the right schools for them. The Rebbe here is actually saying something that you don't necessarily need to apply to our discussion, but can apply to any discussion, which is that when a child is placed in the wrong school, there's a whole bunch of negative things that happens to them. That there is such a thing as the wrong school, and he has here a list of all the negative outcomes of a child being in the wrong school. That is, uh, that is depression, negative relationships, uh, less , resenting the institution that they are learning at because they wish they were somewhere else. So just talking here about some of the downsides of not making sure your children are in the right school. Says to the, to keep the, the, the because this is a very urgent matter, I'm sending this by urgent mail. There must be some word for that in English, but I don't know how mail works anymore. Everything's an email now, but there was a word back then, I guess express mail. And I'm, I'm thanking you in advance for listening. Let's look at one more letter,

15:26 Speaker 1 and then we'll look at a and then we'll talk. This letter's super long. I don't think we need to read the whole thing. Actually, I'm sure we don't need to read the whole thing. Um, in this letter, once again, the Rebbe's talking to parents who aren't thrilled with where their child wants to learn. Since there's about this, there's no room for doubt. The were very excited about this . It comes down to . It's not a Gemara, it's not Megillat, it's in Shulchan Aruch . Even if the father's not happy, even if the father's worried about the child being in a . That comes from... Do we have-- Uh, did I get rid of it? I think I might have gotten rid of it. I had Shulchan Aruch on the screen before. Here it is. That comes from over here where it says, "Even if Goyim are going to, uh, even if the father's worried that the Goyim are gonna attack his kid." So the Rebbe says he's bringing down the even if the father's worried about a . Well, I had a lot of, uh, when I was going to Eretz Yisrael to learn, a lot of my friends' parents were worried about them going to Eretz Yisrael at the time there were, uh, rockets falling. It's a . Truth is, they didn't have to listen to their parents even if it was . Check it out there, Ayin Sham. The Rebbe says, since this is a , this is certainly a good thing.

16:52 Speaker 1 It's not just gonna benefit the student, it's also going to benefit his parents who don't want him to go. And since we're speaking about something that is about the heart's desire, we see and we understand. We understand and we see clearly you certainly can't decree a feeling, that he should want to learn in another place. There's a very interesting point that I hinted at earlier, but this is the Rebbe saying in the is that one of the reasons why a parent can't control is 'cause a parent can decree what a person should do, what their child should do, but a par-parent can't decree, they can't decree what their child should want. So it just doesn't work. One of the reasons why it's in is because it's impossible, and there aren't really any other options Uh, the Rebbe goes on to say something really interesting here that I just don't think we have time for. You should look it up. Um, I'm gonna post the link so you can read it yourself. He talks about how specifically when children are reaching the age of puberty and a little bit beyond puberty, that they develop and they have all sorts of, uh, strong... they have all sorts of strong emotions, and they can get very nervous, and they can get more nervous if their-- these needs are not met. And part of the, uh, and part of the stress of having them in the home is the fact that they feel they need to leave the home.

17:56 Speaker 1 It's this beautiful coming-of-age letter that we might do as a separate letter because it's really the showing the Rebbe's insight into how children of a certain age need to be out of the house, whether or not their parents are ready to let them go. But I don't think that's for us right now. The last thing I wanna show you is the Sicha, and one of the reasons I'm so excited about this Sicha is because it is very much a Gimel Tammuz sort of Sicha. It's the Rebbe talking in Tu Bishvat before he accepted the Siyus about the Frieda Rebbe, about his active role despite the fact that he's not in a Guf Gashmi. And in that, the Rebbe also talks about our Inyan. I just wanna show you at the top of the Sicha, this is not Shayach to our Inyan, but I love it. Look at this paragraph up here. The Rebbe says, "Yesh Nam Atamim Hadedbor Me'ele." People are shocked by what I just said about the MSC Shematinu BeTanach. It says in Tanakh, "VeYaveh Eliyahu Michgav MeEliyahu Hanavi. Vayehi Lav Michgav MeEliyahu Hanavi." It says in Tanakh that people received a letter from Eliyahu Hanavi several years after he had already gone up to the heavens and came out. "Michgam Achshav Yamshich HaRebbe Lishlach." So why are people so surprised that the Rebbe is still sending letters? Obviously, the Rebbe can still communicate with you. Eliyahu Hanavi still could communicate with people, and as the Rebbe says in that Sicha, in the

18:52 Speaker 1 part before it, he's still sending Shluchim, he's still actively involved in the lives of his Shluchim, and the Shlichus didn't end. Okay, that's not about what we're talking about. We're talking about his involvement. The Rebbe said it again, "Lamad Yeshiva Shelo Harabe." I don't know, but I guess from the Sicha that, uh, after the Frieda Rebbe was nostalgic, there was a bit of an exodus from Chabad Yeshivas. "Yesh Em Kehillah Shemekaydim Lamdem BeYeshiva Shelo Harabe." The Rebbe says there are certain people who used to learn in the Frieda Rebbe's Yeshiva, "VeAchshav Asu Shtus Kedei Liyatzu Misham." Now they've done something really stupid, and they've left because of the Nostalgias. "VeGam Elo SheMalbishim Zeis BeItzlo Eshel Mitzas Kibud Av VeEm." There are some people who are, who are clothing-- who are cloaking themselves in the Mitzvah of Kibud Av VeEm, saying that they're listening to their parents. My parents said it's time to go. I'm honoring my parents. "HaZeh Stam Shtus." He goes, "That's, that's a Shtus all by itself." "Ki Ei Zeh Shulchan Aruch SheBe'emor Achiv Kibud Av VeEm." The same Shulchan Aruch that told you to honor your parents, "Nemrah Gadol Sh'midei Geulah Tam Teirah Ein Lizachshuv Mikibud Av VeEm." The same Shulchan Aruch that says to honor your parents tells you not to honor them when it comes... not to pay attention to them when it comes to where you wanna learn Torah. "VeChen Amru SheHaAvde Idase BaAvida Saviv HaAvde Idase KeRemes." The Rebbe gives a second reason here and says there's a

19:54 Speaker 1 Halacha that if I lose an object and my father loses an object, finding my object first is a, is the priority. "VeHalacha Kaman VeKaman BeAvida Ruchanis." Certainly when it comes to a lost object that is in the spiritual sense. "SheNe feshel Hakis Alulah LeAvid Vego Ne feshel Hama'as." The Nefesh El Hakis can sometimes get lost in the body and in the animal soul. "VeMatzav Kaze Ein Lizachshuv Mikibud Av VeEm." When it comes to that, the Halacha is we don't pay attention to Kibud Av VeEm. So when it comes to where somebody learns, which is in Avoda Ruchnis, where they could potentially, Chas V'Shalom, lose their Nefesh El Hakis in their Nefesh HaChamas or in their Guf, then their Avoda comes first. Uh, the Rebbe then says here, not really Shayach to our Inyan, but nice to hear. "Tzadikim LaDaas Es Kedorah Zechus Belimah BeYeshiva Shelo Harabe." People need to know the incredible merit that they had by learning in the Yeshiva of the Rebbe. "VeEilish Zachu Lekach Tzadikim Leheidas LeShaveach LaShemis Barach Lakedorah Zechus Neflah Bechelkam." Every single one of us who had the great Zechus of learning in the Rebbe's Yeshivas need to thank God constantly for the great kindness he did for us in letting this be our portion that we got to learn in the Rebbe's Yeshivas. "Lachaz BeZeh BeChol Hatechum." We need to hold onto this with all strength. "VeEilish Asu Es HaShtus Kedei Lo Yatzu Misham." And those who did the great Shtus of leaving, "Motov SheYavzu VeAchzu Et Zion

20:57 Speaker 1 Halacha," they should go back and ask by the Halacha, "VeKula Hai Vu Ulia," and maybe just, maybe Yakanzu Esen, maybe just, maybe they'll be allowed back in. Anyway, what we have here is a whole bunch of letters from the Rebbe on the issue of Makom Shliho Chafetz, all centered around a frequent question people would send to the Rebbe, whether it was the parent asking the question or the child, saying that they oppose where their child is choosing to learn. And the Rebbe really, uh, defending the idea in Shulchan Aruch, calling it a Psak Din Bader and saying there's really no room for discussion, that when a child decides that they wanna learn Torah in a certain place, the parent's input really stops mattering. And although the Rebbe in these letters is very frequently, maybe even always, defending them going to seven seventy, this simply applies across the board. You can't say Shulchan Aruch only applies to, uh, only applies to seven seventy or Lubavitch Yeshiva. This, uh, this is a Psak Din Shulchan Aruch. If a child wants to learn in an appropriate place for them, it can't be inappropriate, it can't be a place that, uh, that does inappropriate things or doesn't teach well. But if they want to learn in a place that is a place of Torah, Makom Torah, then it's Makom Shliho Chafetz. And, uh, we have limited ability to control that, close to none, because we don't know how Chafetz works for our kids. And, uh, and it, it benefits

21:57 Speaker 1 us and them, as the Rebbe says in several of these letters, us and them, to find the places that suit our children best and make sure that they go there, especially if that's a place where they want to be. Because one of the things that makes it suit them best is that it's Makom Shliho Chafetz. Okay.

22:18 Speaker 2 As always, I have a comment, but I have questions. A few things, uh, three things that, that came to mind. First of all, in the original Psak Din of the Shulchan Aruch, it brings that even if a parent is, is concerned about, uh, Shabo, Shabo, Shabo Isir Hoovid KeChaveh Maal, that there's a-

22:33 Speaker 1 Yes

22:33 Speaker 2 ... physical danger. What about when parents feel there's a spiritual danger? So for example, taking the Turski situation, where he comes from a certain line of Chasidishe Rebbes, and, uh, his, his, his, his parents are concerned about a spiritual, uh, danger, not necessarily a physical danger. Would we say that it's equal? I mean, I know that the Rebbe in his letter seems to say that it is, but from Shulchan Aruch it's not Mash.

22:56 Speaker 1 No, but he calls-- he thinks it is, right? Hunam BeZe, Yibim YeAsif Psak Din Barur VeShulchan Aruch, and he's Metayen to that, to that Siman and Sif. The Rebbe feels that Siman and Sif is Shayach to that question.

23:06 Speaker 2 Okay, that's number one. Number two is staying on this letter, his parents are not the ones that don't want him to go stay in Lubavitch. It's his grandparents. If you look at it, it says over there, "Agmas Nefesh SheYesh Liziknoi HaAdmor," that his grandfather is a Rebbe, the Rachmastrivker Rebbe. And his grandfather is having Agmas Nefesh from the fact that his grandson, who is or, or is not maybe perhaps the next in line to become the Rachmastrivker Rebbe at some point, um, is not going to Yeshiva. So it's interesting that still that's related to Kibud Av VeEm. It goes according to the Psak of the Rambam, and of course it's Chayav L'Chab, L'Chab Liziknoi. Just an interesting, uh, thing to point out that it relates to a grandparent over here, not even a parent, and yet the Rebbe's being Metayen that it's Kibud Av VeEm.

23:47 Speaker 1 Good Ara. Good Ara.

23:48 Speaker 2 Now, the third thing I want there to be here is that Rabbi Greenglass once, uh, once told me, because we spoke about the concept of, uh, Lo Elom Yom Et Adar Vamakom Sh'libe Chafetz, and Rabbi Greenglass' answer was, "Avim Dar Vis Uvutze Chafetzem." You have to know where to want. Yeah, you want, but who says what you want is the right thing? So he used to say, "Avim Dar Vis Uvutze Chafetzem," or the line that he used to say that-

24:11 Speaker 1 That's what the Rebbe's saying in the, in the last Sicha

24:13 Speaker 2 ... Right. Right. Right. Correct.