פרק מיוחד: האם מותר לצאת מארץ ישראל?

00:00 Speaker 1 So today we are not looking at a letter from exactly fifty years ago, and that is because in addition to our regularly scheduled program, which is that we-- uh, if some-somebody has something going on in the background, if you'd mute yourselves. I don't know what it meant. I'll find out it's me once you mute yourselves. In addition to our regularly scheduled program where we talk about letters that happened exactly fifty years ago, we also take requests. If somebody is interested in finding something out, we'll try to find it in the Ingress. So Surly had asked last time when we talked about going to Eretz Israel, asked can we look into leaving Eretz Israel? And I ignored him for like two months, but here we are finally with a series of letters on when people are allowed to leave Eretz Israel. I want to start with this letter that's on the screen right now. It's from, uh, volume Yud Chet of Ingress. It was Sivan of Tav Shin Yud Tes, and it's a good outline of the Rebbe's sheet on this, and then we'll dive into some of the details. We have this letter, Sheol Mebracha, the Rebbe writes. Now that's a funky lotion. Excuse me. It's a funky lotion, L'olam. So Rambam says it's also to leave Eretz Israel to go to Chutz La'aretz l'olam. Some people read that to mean that a person is allowed to leave temporarily, they just can't leave permanently, reading l'olam as meaning you can't leave forever. Another way to

04:59 Speaker 1 read that is, and it seems as the more common way to read it, is that it doesn't mean forever, it means you're never allowed to do it. You're never allowed to do it even for a short period of time. This difference in Rambam is gonna show up in Achreim and in Shaalas and Teshuvot regarding whether a person can leave. The Rebbe-- I'm sorry, the Rambam has a few exceptions. El Limud Torah, you can certainly do it if you wanna learn Torah. That's one of the Rambam's exceptions. So if you wanna travel outside of Eretz Israel to go to Yeshiva, totally allowed. El Liisa Isha or to get married, El Ha'atzil Min Ha'akam or to save yourself from non-Jews who are trying to kill you. And then afterwards, Veyachtze La'aretz, he says, afterwards, you gotta come back. You're not allowed to leave permanently to learn or to marry or to flee, or to flee enemies. Uh, you go until the problem, until the problem that you have is solved, and then you have to come back. V'chen Yeitzeh L'scharah. He also says you can leave for business purposes. Aval Lishken BeChutz La'aretz Asur Elim Ken Chazak Sham Arav Ad She'naseh Sham A'dinach Chitim Shne Dinach. And he goes on and explains that it is forbidden to leave Eretz Israel permanently, which is why people read that L'olam as meaning permanently. It's forbidden to leave Eretz Israel permanently unless there is a significant famine there, unless the economy is really going poorly. He gives many examples of

05:58 Speaker 1 exactly what would have to be going wrong economically for you to leave, and we're not gonna discuss that right now. Then the Rambam adds, and I think this is the most important thing for understanding our Rebbe's sheet, is this last line here. Bava Pi Shemot L'tays En HaMidas Chassidus, the Rambam says. Even though it's Mot to leave, it is not HaMidas Chassidus to leave Those are the, uh, th-those are the sons of Naomi. Um, they were, um, they were the . And they left because of . They had good reasons for leaving . They had every heter in the book. The Rabbonim told them where you're allowed to leave. Nonetheless, when they left , they were destroyed completely. They died and their wives... I mean, Ruth ends up converting, but other than that, their entire families get wiped out for leaving. So Rambam ends by saying, even if you find a heter to leave , it's probably not a good idea, um, because we see from the Nevi'im that there were some pretty serious consequences. In the Rishonim, there are a few reasons given for why we shouldn't leave . The Ramban in Bamidbar says that it is a, it's an . So he goes, there is a mitzvot Aseh of , and you violate that mitzvot Aseh of by leaving . So the Ramban seems to hold that it is a mitzvot Aseh. Nobody else seems to agree with him. It seems like everybody else thinks it's a DeRabonim or some kind of .

07:08 Speaker 1 The Rashbam in, um, Baba Batra and says that it removes, it removes you from mitzvot . That's just not a nice thing to do. You were to a whole bunch of mitzvahs before, Terumah and Maaser. Now you can't do them, so you're running away from mitzvahs. The says you're leaving something holy, which is just, you know, bad mitzvahs. Don't leave holiness. But one, one-- volume one, one-twenty, he concludes there that it's DeRabonim. So we generally don't decide-- don't understand it as being DeAseh. There are a few heterim on the books, and then we're gonna go back to the Rebbe's letters. Um, the couple heterim that we have are, of course, the Rambam list. You can go to learn, you can go to marry, you can go to flee people who are trying to kill you, you can go for business, you can go if you're very poor, if there's a real poverty issue, but you need to come back, and he says not to do this. There is a heter on the books for that if people are gonna wanna go honor their parents by visiting their parents outside of , that's a heter that's all over the place, and it doesn't seem to have any rules associated with it. So that's one of the most clear-cut heterim is to visit your parents. Mandy, you're safe. You can come back. Um, visiting is actually a heter that is well-established. Visiting , this does not just include going to the oil. This is the heter that's

08:09 Speaker 1 used to allow them to go to , um, and to allow them to go to any of the outside of . Seeking medical care is considered within the Rambam's running away to save your life, so you're allowed to go to seek medical care. The Magen Avram says you can even go to visit friends, but, uh, a lot of other people don't want to take that heter to that extreme that the Magen Avram takes it. Now, five fifty-seven says you can leave to take a job teaching Torah, not just to learn Torah. And, uh, it seems that according to some Acharonim, you can even leave for vacations as long as those vacations serve a constructive purpose. There's a Shevet Levi five one seventy-three who says that the main Issur is in leaving permanently and that there is sort of an Issur in leaving for vacations, but, uh, but only if there's no reason for your vacation. If you can find some worthwhile cause, you can even justify a vacation leaving . So looking at the Rebbe's letters and the Rebbe's sefas that we're gonna look at now, we'll see that the Rebbe is reflecting a lot of these shitas and bottom line telling us we have to ask the Rav. That's probably the biggest takeaway from the whole thing, is that the Rebbe almost never-- In a couple cases, the Rebbe gives a blanket heter to leave, but usually the Rebbe says you need to get an actual heter before you leave , a formal heter.

09:12 Speaker 1 So I have a few examples here of the Rebbe telling people to ask the Rav. This is from a letter from that's in that's in, uh, . By the way, you'll find a ton of these in . has a whole entry on, uh, the Rebbe's shitas on leaving . So the ones that are printed in this sort of text, they're taken right from there. So the Rebbe writes, everybody knows my general opinion on this matter. I hold it like the Rambam. That it's not Kedai to leave Eretz HaKodesh. I don't think he's talking about the first part of the Rambam. I think he's talking about the second part. That the Rebbe is saying that his, that his-- everybody knows his opinion is like Rambam, that even if we can find you a heter to leave, it's a really bad idea to be to stay. But if you think, the Rebbe says, that you have a particular reason that would justify your leaving , I want you to ask the Rav. There's another letter down here where someone gets a job offer. The person, they have a job offer, they have a steady job right now, but they, uh, they want to accept a position as a in Melbourne. They wanna leave for Australia. So the Rebbe says . He once again wants a psak din from Rav . The Rebbe adds because this is going to be a permanent position. Some people have read this letter to mean that had it been a temporary position

10:23 Speaker 1 leaving , the Rebbe would have allowed it without a heter, but that is not necessarily the case given the other things that the Rebbe says on the topic, so I don't think that's binding. Um, one more over here on this topic. This is somebody who wants to visit, I believe. Some-- A woman who wants to visit her relatives living outside of . These are not her parents, these are other relatives. He goes, "Of course, your husband needs to agree." And in addition, the Rebbe says. He doesn't tell her to ask a Rav. He says, "Make sure you're doing a mitzvah as well." That sounds a lot like the Shevet Levi. The Shevet Levi who had told us that, uh, that even though the Magen Avram allows you to visit friends, that's only, uh, that should only be if it's attached to a dover mitzvah. So the Rebbe seems to not say you need a Rav for this one. You just need... If you wanna visit friends, you can rely on the Magen Avram plus a mitzvah. But you have to find some mitzvah you're gonna be doing along the way. Otherwise, the Magen Avram, the Rebbe doesn't seem to want to rely on all by himself. Um, the Rebbe was very vocal about people not coming to him for Tishrei unless they got a heter from a Rav. There are two good sefas here that, uh, that bring this to light. Um, I don't think we really need to read the first one. You can

11:27 Speaker 1 read that on your own time in the, uh, in the . Take a look at the second one 'cause it's got really cool around it. This is um, and the Rebbe writes, There is another condition for anybody who wants to visit seven-seventy over Tishrei if they're coming from . First of all, they need a heter to come. Now, here's the detail that's different. That is, the Rav must be a Rav who lives in . You can't ask some American Rav to give you the heter. And furthermore, it's gotta be someone who really cares about , someone who understands and feels the dearness of , someone who cares about . You can't go to some Rav who doesn't like Israel anyway and ask him, "Can I leave?" You gotta find yourself a, uh, a Rav who's excited about the place. should get a heter from him, and otherwise, the Rebbe doesn't allow them to go. Uh, and the Rebbe then says, he says this in most of the circles on this whoever that is. Yeah, no, no one has a heter to come unless they, um, unless they get a heter first. Uh, this is a really interesting letter. I never would have guessed this in a million years. Someone writes to the Rebbe, they're living in Yerushalayim. They're not living in Eretz Yisrael. They're living in, like, the outskirts of Yerushalayim or in whatever is modern Yerushalayim. You know, the city limits are not what biblical Yerushalayim was at all. And somebody asked the Rebbe

12:46 Speaker 1 about leaving to move to somewhere else in Eretz Israel. I might have thought that if it was from Eretz Yisrael to somewhere else, there could be a problem. But look at this. The Rebbe says, "Well, you're talking about moving from Yerushalayim, The Rebbe goes, "Even though according to rumor, the present day Yerushalayim is outside the city limits of Yerushalayim that exist in the time of Shas, The Rebbe once psak din on this. The Rebbe goes, only look into moving after you've received a clear psak din from a Rav, you're allowed to leave modern Yerushalayim. The Rebbe is not sure. He thinks it might have the same dinim as ancient Yerushalayim, which a person was not necessarily allowed to leave. As I mentioned a little bit or hinted to earlier when we were talking about , the Rebbe does appear to have a blanket heter when it comes to visiting the oil. This is somebody writing to the Rebbe about their interest in leaving Eretz Israel to visit the oil. So, the Rebbe goes, "I only allow it. It can only be allowed in unique circumstances, umehem, but among them are one of those unique circumstances in which you're definitely allowed to leave Eretz Israel is in order to, uh in order to go visit . The Rebbe says to take a look in the Sefer HaMed. The Rebbe says to look in the Sefer HaMed, uh, in another poskin like that, says, "Certainly you can go to visit the tzadik, the nasi Hador, who the

14:08 Speaker 1 nasi," excuse me, "who you were close to. Certainly somebody, since he's your Rebbe, you learn his Torah, and you, um, you learn his Torah, and you, uh, and you act according to his lessons and his teachings. At the very least, you accept upon yourself to do this from now on." I think somebody is unmuted. I'm hearing, uh, something, but I haven't found it yet. Here, I muted everybody just to be safe. There we go. Much easier. You can all come back in a minute. Right. So it seems like there's a heter for visiting as well, and the Rebbe doesn't attach any rules to that. He doesn't say you need to ask . Uh, if, uh, but he does add that this is if you are planning on following the Torah and the customs of that tzadik. So I assume that there are a bunch of people very interested in leaving Eretz Israel to go to places like Uman, who don't necessarily want to embody the teachings of Rebbe Nachman. They might have a problem. Uh, so to summarize everything we talked about, and then of course, we'll open the floor as has been our tradition. The, the Rambam forbids leaving Eretz Israel. There are many achronim who say the prohibition is just derabbanan. And in addition to Rambam's heterim, there are several other heterim that are available on books. Um, and we listed a bunch of them. At the same time, it seems clear that there... And if you're going to leave, there needs to

15:19 Speaker 1 be some sort of pressing need or some sort of mitzvah. So we learned that the Rebbe holds like Rambam, that it's not kedai to leave. I said, I don't think that the Rebbe is holding like the first half of Rambam. I think he's holding like the second half specifically, where the Rambam says, "Even if I find you a heter, you really shouldn't leave." The Rebbe seems to feel this applies to anyone who has been there for more than thirty days. So even a traveler who stays in Eretz Yisrael for thirty days without leaving is gonna have to ask a shaila if they wanna go back home. The Rebbe says you need to ask a Rav if you think you have a reason that might be subject to a heter, if you have a job offer outside of Eretz Israel, if you wanna come to seven seventy for Tishrei, and he repeated this policy multiple times, that Rav must be a Rav who cherishes Eretz Israel. And even if you wanna leave modern Yerushalayim to visit parents, there appears to be a blanket heter of kibud av va'em. For other relatives and friends of the Magan Avram, the Rebbe still wants it tied to a mitzvah to visit the oil. There also seems to be a blanket heter, but it might require you to follow that Rebbe's teachings, um, and it might not be a, a blanket heter just for all . It might be one that might have to be one that you're associated with.

16:14 Speaker 1 Uh, when it comes to learning Torah in Eretz Israel, there also appear-appears to be a blanket heter. Obviously, Kollel has been going on for a long time with students from Eretz Israel coming to learn in seven seventy. I didn't bring the Sifra on the page, but I did find a Sifra while I was doing the research along the way, where the Rebbe says they're not allowed to stop learning for even a minute while they're in America because their heter to be here is dependent on the fact that they are learning Torah. So that seems to be a clear heter as long as they're learning. If someone does come to America to learn Torah and then wants to, I don't know, visit New York City before they go home, it sounds like they might have to ask a shaila. They're here specifically to learn, and otherwise they don't have a heter to not be here. Okay. That's everything I've got.

16:50 Speaker 2 My, my only comment is that on the, uh, first original letter, I think the opening line-

16:55 Speaker 1 Yeah

16:55 Speaker 2 ... was, um, it actually, on the original letter, what it says is this seems like to somebody who lives in America and who wants to go to Israel for a few months, and that's where the question is. It's not somebody who lives in Eretz Israel who wants to leave Eretz Israel and come to America. It's first wants to go to Eretz Israel and be there for a few months, which the Rebbe responses that is, that is, that is an issue with once you're there for a few months of you being able to return.

17:23 Speaker 1 You are exactly right. There's a lamed there that I should have noted. The good news is that it doesn't change the meaning of the letter at least because-

17:29 Speaker 2 No, no, it doesn't change the meaning. Just wanted to point out that it's somebody who's in America-

17:32 Speaker 1 That is a-

17:32 Speaker 2 ... wants to stay there for a few months.

17:34 Speaker 1 That is a, that is a good point. Oh, well.

17:38 Speaker 3 Yeah. I was like, what if they're going to Israel to learn?

17:42 Speaker 1 Huh? Right.

17:42 Speaker 3 What?

17:44 Speaker 1 They, they can go to Eilat.

17:46 Speaker 3 They can go to Eilat?

17:48 Speaker 2 Yeah. The Rebbe says that they can go to Eilat to visit. If somebody goes to, goes to Eretz Israel, and they're there for a long time, they don't wanna be-- violate the thirty-day rule, they can hop to Eilat for a little bit 'cause it's technically not Eretz, Eretz Yisrael.

17:59 Speaker 3 Oh.

17:59 Speaker 1 Yeah. I learned that Eretz Israel and so did Zami. I never heard of it. I, I, I think, I think Mendy did too. I never heard of anybody doing this. I never heard of anybody leaving the borders of Eretz Israel for thirty days to not, to not worry about this. But I, I didn't find anything saying that they wouldn't have to worry about it. I, I don't know.

18:14 Speaker 3 It's the half the, uh, it's the half the-- me flew to, to New Zealand from Australia to... 'cause I had a six-month, s-six-month visa at a time. I could keep going to, to New Zealand.

18:25 Speaker 1 Yeah. I, I don't know. Um, I, I didn't find anything really, uh-

18:28 Speaker 2 Do we know practically-

18:29 Speaker 1 Yeah.

18:29 Speaker 2 Do we know practically how Rabbanei Eretz Israel, Chabad Rabbanei Eretz Israel have paskened in cases that people just wanted to live-- leave for business opportunities or whatever? Or I guess-- I mean, it seems like enough ways to get a heter around it, uh, whether it's for, for, uh, uh, medical treatments, permanent job, whatever.

18:47 Speaker 1 Yeah. Something we've seen in a lot of these letters is that, uh, in, in a lot of our previous letters that the Rebbe says that it's an . It doesn't really usually mean that we're not gonna get a heter. It usually is the Rebbe's way of saying, "This is a real issue, and I don't want you to treat it, uh, chalantily."

19:01 Speaker 2 Right. Which chalantily a word you're allowed to say? W-which then this case would go back to this letter and the Rebbe saying basically that, "Yeah, okay, you can find a heter, but why do you even wanna be in this parshah of looking for a heter? Why do you wanna be in a suffek, shakla v'tari type of situation?" You know, don't do it, basically, is what the Rebbe is saying. Like, yes, you can find a way out, but why even get into the whole back and forth of it?

19:21 Speaker 1 Which sounds a lot like, again, the Rebeshi and Rambam, right? That is that inik d'ila se, that, that, that we can find you a heter, but it's, uh, it's not a mitzvah to go. And, uh, Machl and Kilian went with a full heter, and look what happened to them.

19:34 Speaker 2 Right. Interesting