צילום וצלמים

00:00 Speaker 1 We are looking at a letter from Yud Aleph Nissan of Tamuz Lamed Gimel, just about fifty years ago, as has been traditional. And I only, I only wanna do a piece of this letter. This letter actually has a few parts. It looks like the Rebbe wrote back to a couple of people all on the same piece of paper. I wanna just focus on this one. I think we're gonna do the rest of the letter later. The letter is on page kuf pe zayin of volume chaf tes, and it's letter number Yud Taf Shin Nun Daled. And here the Rebbe writes that he's received that he's received a letter and a pan. Then he has a couple of PSs. And this first PS is the one we're dealing with today. The Rebbe says, "Thank you very, very much for the picture that you sent." Now, what picture was this? We can look down below the line. Uh, there it is. It's Tira Terapene I believe that means it's a drawing, not a photograph. That's what I think those words mean. So I believe the person sent him a drawing, not a photograph. In any event, they sent a picture-- they sent a picture of the Rebbe that this artist had done by himself. The Rebbe is very happy about it. He thanks him very, very much. He says, The Rebbe says, "I'd like to go on and tell you more details about how much-- how thankful I am for you making this picture of I just

01:07 Speaker 1 don't have time to talk about this at length. The most important thing, what really matters, what matters the most is the impression of those who see the picture. Will they be impressed by it or not? Certainly. You certainly have heard from them personally. I'm sure they've praised you a lot for this picture. It's very impressive. So the Rebbe seems very pleased with this photograph. It's not a photograph, but this picture. And, um, it's a picture of the Rebbe, so you can imagine. I mean, obviously, we can't put ourselves in the position of the Rebbe, but there's different reactions a person could have to receiving a painting of themselves. The Rebbe seems pleased with this drawing, painting, picture, whatever exactly it was. Because of this letter, I wanted to launch into a larger discussion of the Rebbe's view on pictures in general that are taken of him specifically. So we're not gonna discuss this Tira Terapene Rebbe, an entirely different surga, which is the value of looking at a-- picturing the Rebbe's face, of looking at pictures of the Rebbe. Now, Chassidus is replete with this. It's very valuable. Um, i-imagining the Rebbe's face and, uh, and carrying with you a picture of the Rebbe. These are all things that are undisputedly valuable. What I wanna talk about today exclusively is the question of how the Rebbe felt about being photographed and what we know about that. And the answer is, he didn't love it. He-- The Rebbe generally does not like it when we take

02:16 Speaker 1 pictures of him. Um, I wanna talk first about wedding photographs 'cause that's when first was really a thing, is, um, from the time the Rebbe arrived i-in America until he accepted the Nasius, the Rebbe, according to, um... Where'd I find all these things? I had a source here somewhere, and I threw it off my page. That's strange. I shouldn't have deleted it. Where is it? Oh, some of them are in Yimei Melech, Volume One. You'll find them between the pages like three seventy-nine through three eighty. There's also stuff in Mikdash Melech, page three thir-- page thirty. There's a lot of background on this that I just wouldn't have found anywhere else, just history stuff. So apparently, from the time the Rebbe arrived in America until he accepted the Nasius, the Rebbe would intentionally move his head to the side to shield his face because he didn't wanna be in photographs. This went on for quite a while until, uh, until Taf Shin Yud Dalet and in Taf Shin Yud Dalet, the Rebbe started doing-- I guess before that, he probably was doing a couple also. But in any case, in Taf Shin Yud Dalet when the Rebbe was doing Chasunos, the Rebbe would officiate at weddings out front from seven-- near seven seventy. The, uh, the photographer started complaining to him. It was a Reuben Trainer. He complained to the Rebbe that he can't get a picture of the Rebbe's face at the weddings, and people aren't buying the pictures 'cause they wanted to purchase

03:15 Speaker 1 the pictures just so they could get the Rebbe's face in them. So he told the Rebbe that's costing him Parnassa, and the Rebbe told him that he was allowed to take pictures of his face, and he stopped covering his face. So Reuben Trainer might have been the first person to get exclusive permission to get-- to take pictures of the Rebbe's face. Uh, when Reuben began taking a lot of pictures of the Chasunos, the Rebbe started limiting them. He was taking too many. So the Rebbe told him that there was a hard limit of one or two pictures, and there was at least one occasion that shows up in these books where Rebbe Reuben Trainer took a couple more than the Rebbe wanted, and the Rebbe spoke to him after the wedding and said, "I told you very specifically, one to two pictures per, per event." So the Rebbe allowed pictures of the Rebbe himself officiating at weddings at-- on a very limited basis for somebody's Parnassa. Besides that, the Rebbe continues to be pretty, uh, pretty, I don't know, cold to the idea of people taking pictures of him. There are several stories. There's actually a whole Der Herer article on stories of the Rebbe pointing to photographers who are trying to get pictures of him and asking them whether they'd learned Tanya that day. There's an entire Der Herer article of all the times, of all the times this happened. There were like seven or eight examples where, uh, where somebody's taking a picture

04:13 Speaker 1 of the Rebbe and the Rebbe sends somebody over to them or asks them personally, "Did you learn Tanya today?" Not Kitzur either, specifically Tanya. I don't know why. But the Rebbe seems to have confronted a couple of people and asked them whether they'd learned Tanya the day they were taking pictures. The Rebbe isn't a huge fan of wedding pictures in general, not just pictures of himself but pictures taken at weddings. There's a fairly famous fabricant from Chaf Av of Taf Shin Yud Dalet. You'll find that in Terras Menachem, Volume Twelve on page one fifty-three, where the Rebbe sort of, um, in somewhat of a joking way, but also def-definitely in a serious way, the Rebbe says that, uh, nowadays, black and white photographs aren't enough for anybody. He's saying this in Taf Shin Yud Dalet. Black and white photographs aren't enough at a wedding. People need color photos. And the Rebbe says somehow, despite the fact that Adam HaRishon didn't have any color photos at his wedding and didn't even have black and white photos at his wedding, they happened to-- they, they put together a successful marriage. So the Rebbe seems to be knocking the idea of pictures, photographs at weddings in general, and in the case of helping a photographer with his Parnassa, was willing to allow himself to be photographed. But the Rebbe's whole view on wedding photographs seems to be an overall negative one, and he doesn't seem particularly interested in having people take pictures of him. There are several cases

05:17 Speaker 1 at Fabregans where the Rebbe specifically called out people taking pictures of him and didn't-- and, and was displeased by it. Uh, we have a Fabregans from Purim of Taf-- Taf Shin Chaf Vav, I believe. Yes. Um, where a Tammim is taking pictures of the Rebbe. So this is a Tammim doing it. It's a Fabregans on Purim, so he's allowed to 'cause it's Purim. And the Rebbe asked somebody nearby who that is, and they told him that it's an Israeli Bachur, and the Rebbe told him to tell the Bachur to say lchaim and then take his camera away. And then according to the diary of, I believe, Rabbi Sassover's diary, he said-- the Rebbe then said quietly, "This is Chutzas and this is why the Neshama came down to a gulf to take pictures of me." So the Rebbe was very displeased that people were spending time taking pictures of him. There is a much more famous Fabregans on this subject from Chaf Av of Taf Shin Mem Dalet. You'll find that in the Hisdadius page four hundred and eighty-six, where the Rebbe goes on Uh, about the, about the Chassidim who are very interested in taking pictures of him, maybe too interested. The Rebbe says that some people think Chassidis demands we take pictures of the Rebbe walking, standing, motioning. They're doing it again and again. They just keep taking pictures of the Rebbe, and they think that's what Chassidis is. And the Rebbe says, "I once asked one of these photographers if they learned

06:23 Speaker 1 Tanya." See, just like our story that's in Der Her. And the photographer couldn't answer the connection. They couldn't understand the connection, the Rebbe says. The Rebbe then says that the photographer must have thought to himself, "What does something like Tanya have to do with this incredibly important lofty pursuit of taking photographs?" Uh, so the Rebbe then adds at the end of that farbrengen that some people need it for parnassa. Some people use photographs for hafatzah samayanos. The Rebbe seems to be okay with these things, with people taking pictures of him for the purposes of hafatzah samayanos, spreading Chassidis or for the purposes of parnassa. But the Rebbe says for all other people that we should demand pnimius, and that he doesn't want this chitzonius of people taking pictures of him. Again, I don't think this is to be connected to tzir pnei Rebbe, 'cause tzir pnei Rebbe is not chitzonius. The idea of, of picturing the Rebbe's face or carrying a picture of the Rebbe with you, this is not the sugiah here. The sugiah here is taking time to take pictures of the Rebbe, and that inyan the Rebbe felt was, uh, was an inyan of chitzonius that wasn't being used for parnassa or for hafatzah. I found a couple exceptions. We wanna explore some of those, and then I think we'll, uh, we'll probably end on the exceptions and open the floor for people who have more stories. Uh, there are a couple exceptions. So in the reshimos of Rabbi Sassover, he has

07:26 Speaker 1 a lot of stuff on, on photographs. I found like seven or eight things in those reshimos. He says, on by Kesher Halacha, a young boy was walking by Kesher Halacha and asked the Rebbe if he could take a picture of him. The Rebbe agreed, said he could take the picture, and then the Rebbe suggested he give th-this boy give the camera to someone else so that the-- they could capture the Rebbe handing the boy Kesher Halacha. So this shows, uh, I guess a certain sensitivity that there, that there's a, there's a value to capturing a moment with the Rebbe. And the Rebbe specifically orchestrated that moment, according to these reshimos. Told the boy to give the camera to someone else so that they could take a picture of the Rebbe and the boy-- the Rebbe handing the boy a Kesher Halacha. Uh, I'm sure you've heard that the Rebbe often talk about the importance of other Rebbeim's pictures. He mentions all the time that we-- people should be carrying the Friediker Rebbe's picture. A lot of letters, uh, where people write to the Rebbe that they have yehidah problems, the Rebbe will say to carry a picture of the Friediker Rebbe with them. And as Chassidim, we generally assume that when the Rebbe says to do something with the Friediker Rebbe, that this means we should be doing it with him. But it is ultimately unclear whether he applied this to himself. Of course, we also have the stories with, uh, with the Rebbe Rashab

08:26 Speaker 1 in, in Samach Lamed, where the Rebbe specifically wanted a picture of the author of those Maamarim to be in the book so people can look at the Rebbe Rashab while they're learning it right before learning Maamarim. Again, unclear if this applies to the Rebbe specifically. All we have are ex-- are specific examples to go after this. One example makes it pretty clear the Rebbe felt at least one of these minhagim applied to his own picture, and that's Rabbi Yankive Asif Raskin. Do we have any Raskins on the phone today? I don't think we have any on our, on our, on our call today, but, uh, I'm sure they're listening. I'm sure they will be listening. So, uh, Yankive Asif Raskin, he once asked the Rebbe in Yechidus about the fact that Chassidim were taking a picture of the Rebbe, not a picture of the Friediker Rebbe, of the Rebbe, and putting it under a baby by a Bris Mila. Did any of you guys do this? I was told to do this. I did this by my boys. Have you heard of this one before? So you-you're supposed to take-- There's a minhag to take a picture of the Rebbe and put it under the baby's pillow, uh, by the Bris Mila when they're under the sandek, under the, under the blanket. I don't even know what you call it. There's a baby. There's a sort of pillow thing. There's a Rebbe picture if there's a sandek, right? So the Rebbe picture goes in there.

09:26 Speaker 1 I was told about this too. So the Rebbe-- So, uh, Raskin asked the Rebbe about this, said, "People are putting your picture there. Are you okay with this?" And the Rebbe said, uh, "They're doing it wrong. They're putting it under the baby. It belongs on the sandek's legs, not by the baby's head." And it only applies to Chassidim who would have chosen the Rebbe as a sandek if the Rebbe would have agreed. And other people, they shouldn't do it. But the Rebbe, by giving that sort of answer, was also implicitly saying that he was okay with his picture being used because that was the question. Can we use your picture? The Rebbe goes, "Yeah, depending on what they do. It should be on the sandek's leg, not under the baby." Uh, which is effectively the same thing, but obviously there's layers here. And, uh, that it should only be for people who feel that way about the Rebbe. Rav Yitzchak Ginsburg one time wanted to include a photograph of the Rebbe in a Haggadah that he was putting together for visitors from Chabad, and he presented the Rebbe with a couple options for this, and the Rebbe chose a photograph and said, "This one looks the most like me." Was his lashon. So the Rebbe seems to have had a sensitivity to that at least, that his picture should go in Haggadahs and that, uh, that it should be one that looks, at least according to the Rebbe, that, uh, the Rebbe thinks looks like

10:25 Speaker 1 him. Um, also on my exceptions list, our letter-- So our, our letter really is kind of an exception. We have here, it's not a photograph, so this could be the Rebbe feels differently about, about, uh, drawings and paintings, but I don't think so. I think that there's a, there's an idea here that the act of getting a picture of the Rebbe is an act of chitzonius. Um, but the Rebbe appreciates them sometimes when they come in. So in our, in our letter, we have the Rebbe thanking somebody for, um, thanking somebody for sending him a picture. We have a couple other examples of that. So again, in the Simei Melech and the Mikdash Melech, there are a few examples. There's a Yid from Nice, France, gave a local Chabad Sheliach a picture of the Rebbe and the Friediker Rebbe sitting together in a horse carriage. The Chassid brought it to the Rebbe in Taf Shin Chaf Ches, and the Rebbe was very happy to receive it. He said he wanted to keep the picture, and the lashon they have there in the books is, That the Rebbe says, "By looking at this picture, I remember the situation we were in at that time. It takes me back," says the Rebbe. So the Rebbe seems to appreciate the pictures on that front. There's a sort of similar story where the Rebbe showed a French journalist a picture of himself in Tamuz Lamed Alef when that French journalist was in Yechidus. And the Rebbe told this journalist

11:32 Speaker 1 that he had just heard that the Rebbe had just arrived in Paris a moment before the picture was taken, and an ani, a poor person, had just asked him for tzedakah. Is-- Rebbe told the journalist that it's brought in Zohar that when you arrive somewhere new and an ani asks you for tzedakah, that's an inyan of Gdolus Hashchinah. The Rebbe at that moment paused where he was standing and started thinking about this at length. He was musing on this idea for a long time, and while he was musing, someone took the photo. So again, this is an example of the Rebbe thanking somebody for a photograph that they presented to him that brings him back to a time where he can then-- which reminds him of a situation in which the photograph was taken. So putting it all together, I guess Hard to know exactly a, a straight up . But we have things from Fabregans, and we have more direct announcements than that. But besides people who are try taking pictures of the Rebbe before Parnaso or for Hafatzo, the Rebbe does not seem pleased with people taking pictures of him and seems to feel that's an opinion of Chitzonios and that it's inappropriate for Tumim, it's inappropriate for Bachrim, inappropriate for Chassidim in general. The Rebbe is not a fan of people taking pictures of him outside of specific circumstances. Um, as for the pictures that already exist, we have from at least a couple of sources, we have from the, uh, the

12:37 Speaker 1 Sandek situation and from the, uh, Kesher Bracha story, that it seems that the Rebbe is okay with us using those pictures once they're taken, and certainly I think most of us have quite a few Rebbe pictures lying around, so it'd be a real problem if we didn't. We'd have to clean out our houses of all of our photographs. And it also seems that there is some-- there are some stories on the record of the Rebbe appreciating pictures that are sent to him. Uh, this ex-- this letter that we have is one example of somebody sending the Rebbe a drawing that he appreciated, and we had a few other examples of the Rebbe enjoying pictures of him that were taken. Okay, that's it for me. Who else has stories or comments or things to throw into the mix? Does this translate into taking pictures, um, of the Tzaddik at the Ohel? That's a strange question. I don't mean a bad one, just a strange one. Um- I was looking for some sort of application ... if taking a, take, if taking a picture-- Yeah. Well, if taking a picture of a Rebbe is an act of Chitzonios, I would assume a ta-- unless it's for Parnaso or Hafatzo, I would assume that taking a picture of anything is a, is a sign of Chitzonios, uh, unless it's for Parnaso or Hafatzo, right? 'Cause the, the best thing to take a picture of ever would be a Tzaddik, and if even that's off limits, I would say

13:48 Speaker 1 it sounds like, it sounds like, uh, hobby photography is not on the menu for Pnimius, at least. Uh, yeah, I would apply it to the Ohel. And this has become, if anything, maybe a little more relevant than it used to be, maybe a lot more relevant than it used to be. You know, everybody complains now that people spend time taking pictures of things on their phones and not living an experience. You can just imagine what the Rebbe's comment would be with people, uh, if the Rebbe, you know, walked into Seven seventy and all the iPhones came out. You know, live in the moment a little, don't stare at me through a, through a lens. Just a thought.

14:24 Speaker 2 Right. Perhaps, perhaps you could say that the difference is the pursuit of pictures versus the picture itself. Um-

14:29 Speaker 1 Definitely

14:30 Speaker 2 ... and that makes-- maybe-- and maybe that has to do with the Tanya. So you're saying if you le-- didn't learn Tanya today, then the Ikron Chassidus you're missing, and you're going to find your Chassidus in a picture, that's not how you're gonna find it. But if it's to supplement your Chassidus learning, or maybe that's, maybe, you know, you have Pnimius and Chitzonios. But when you're doing just the Chitzonios, then that's a problem. Also, there's-- you, you-- the Rebbe could be pro people having a picture of the Rebbe and still not wanting to have paparazzi-style people running after him with pictures all the time.

15:00 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's probably the case. Given that-- given how much emphasis the Rebbe does put on seeing Rebbe and Rebbe pictures once people have them, it seems that this, uh, this, this negativity toward pictures is, is, uh, is very much about the act of capturing them, not the fact that you have them.

15:17 Speaker 2 If I recall, I think the Rebbe would sometimes, my father, I think, told me that-- I don't know if it's sometimes or it has happened, that the Rebbe basically took someone's film out of the camera taking pictures of him.

15:28 Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

15:29 Speaker 2 There's before

15:30 Speaker 1 I found this one story in here where they, where they said to take the camera away, where the Rebbe, the Rebbe instructed people to go take the camera from somebody. I didn't hear about the film. But in any case. I also heard-- I also read one touching story I just didn't include in my, in my list of notes, that after something like thirty photographs of the Rebbe had been taken total, um, one of the, one of-- somebody in the Maskiros, I think, um, thought that the Rebbe's mother might like some of them and put together an album and gave an album of the pictures to the Rebbe's mother, Rebbetzin Chana, and she loved it. And the Rebbe called him in and told him how much naches his mother got from the pictures. So the, the Rebbe certainly understands the value of the pictures once they exist. I don't think he really liked it when we took them.

16:09 Speaker 2 Right. But it also explains, let's say with a kid, right? A kid does not necessarily have that Pnimius to connect connection yet. So for a kid, it's okay to have a Chitzonius connection.

16:18 Speaker 1 Would also explain why he comes-- Yeah. It would also explain why he comes down so much harder on Tumim doing it.

16:23 Speaker 2 Right.

16:23 Speaker 1 People who really should have a Pnimius connection.

16:26 Speaker 2 Right.

16:29 Speaker 1 Well, just a, a peek into Chabad history, spinning off a letter from fifty years ago.

16:35 Speaker 2 I mean, for spinning off an Ohel thing, I ca-- I, my, my personal feeling is like, I think that when people take pictures in the Ohel itself, I don't think people in Yechidus would take-- turn around and take a selfie. So I find it weird when someone takes a selfie in the Ohel.

16:47 Speaker 1 I find it weird, too. But at the very least, I mean, that's extreme. I think even if you go down to something less extreme, you get the result that they shouldn't be taking pictures in the Ohel because w-what, what Chitzonios to be at, to be at the Ohel snapping pictures, right? Like, that's a place of, that's a place of a real internal connection. That's a place of Pnimius.

17:03 Speaker 2 But then, but maybe there's the other aspect. You wanna look back and remember that time you were there and the emotions and the feelings you felt when you were in that, in that situation.

17:11 Speaker 1 Well, are we talking, like, in the Ohel or, like, in front of the Ohel?

17:13 Speaker 2 Let's say in front of the Ohel. Let's say you had a, a trip with your, you know, with your family

17:18 Speaker 1 Everybody takes pictures in front of the Ohel. That's not Yechidus. That's, you know, the tent out front.

17:21 Speaker 2 Right.

17:22 Speaker 1 I mean, I don't mean, like, in the cemetery. I mean... Who doesn't have that picture? I thought you meant, like, in the room, in the room, you know?

17:29 Speaker 2 No, in the room, in the room, I fi-- I find it very weird

17:30 Speaker 1 In the room, in the room, I can't imagine. But... All right. Might be short on practical applications this particular Shiur, but that's okay. Sometimes it's, sometimes it's just about the-

17:43 Speaker 2 The prac-- applications is focus on Pnimius and not Chitzonios.

17:46 Speaker 1 That's right. Practical application is to focus on the things that really connect us to the Rebbe.

17:51 Speaker 2 Learning Chassidus.

17:53 Speaker 1 Yeah, parents.

17:54 Speaker 2 And Nigunim also.

17:55 Speaker 1 And Nigunim also. Okay. Thanks, everyone.