Ep. 95 // "The Years Gone By" w/ Rabbi Zalman Lieberow

00:00 Speaker 1 Think to yourself, the smallest, tiniest businessman that has a successful business running, and he doesn't have a natural successor, isn't he gonna look to do something with the business or just let it drop? How in the world would you accuse the Lubavitcher Rebbe, which everyone knows is a very proper, you know, proper person, that he would take a company that he didn't build, it was built for seven generations, and he'll just let it drop down the cliff? And B'chavod, the Rebbe took us up to the cliff. The whole of the Rebbe is "Come, come." And he takes us to the peak of the cliff and leaves us? So logically, there's gotta be a plan. And my way of explaining the plan is . The Rebbe says, "You didn't get it till now. I'm gonna have to kind of walk to the side a second, and I wanna see how you guys are gonna act without me answering and writing and fabrianing. Let's, let's see how you can do it."

00:56 Speaker 2 Welcome to Homesick for Lubavitch, a podcast where we explore Lubavitch identity in the year two thousand and twenty-six. My name is Bentzi Hafetz, and I will be your host. Let's begin. Alrighty, we are here in Flatbush, Brooklyn, with Reb Zalman Librov, who it turns out is a cousin as well, and we'll get to that soon. Um, actually here in Flatbush, Brooklyn. Thank you very much for making the time.

01:30 Speaker 1 Thanks.

01:30 Speaker 2 And it's nice meeting you.

01:33 Speaker 1 So welcome.

01:34 Speaker 2 Shalom. So, uh-

01:36 Speaker 1 It's good to know your cousins.

01:37 Speaker 2 It's good to get to know your cousins, yeah.

01:39 Speaker 1 Especially when we have so many.

01:41 Speaker 2 Especially, yes, yes.

01:42 Speaker 1 The Hafetz have plenty, Librov have plenty.

01:44 Speaker 2 The Librovs have a lot of cousins. Librovs have a lot of cousins.

01:47 Speaker 1 Through Futuvass, not so many.

01:49 Speaker 2 That's what I was gonna say.

01:49 Speaker 1 But, uh, Shemtov second cousins, I have plenty.

01:53 Speaker 2 You're saying once you go a second cousin, ah, you-

01:55 Speaker 1 Yeah, second cousin.

01:56 Speaker 2 Yeah, Shemtov, uh, Serebranski-

01:58 Speaker 1 Yeah.

01:58 Speaker 2 Deitch, forget about it. You're up to the-

02:01 Speaker 1 Deitch, Deitch are not even really, it's like-

02:02 Speaker 2 Doesn't count Fair. Fair enough. All right, we'll get to it in a moment. Um, but before we begin, just a short reminder to anyone listening that enjoys the podcast, please like and subscribe on the platforms, and if you really like it, please support the podcast. It's hflpodcast.com/donate. Reb Zalman, let's begin from, let's begin from the beginning, shall we? Let me just have you turn, if you don't mind, a little bit straight to me, so the people can see. Um, why don't we start from, from the beginning? Uh, you, you already mentioned Futuvass, Shemtov, Librov. We un-- We know your last name is Librov. Give us a little bit of the background of where you come from.

02:42 Speaker 1 Well, my mother is, uh, Futuvass. My grandfather's, uh, only daughter. And-

02:51 Speaker 2 Mendel, Mendel Futuvass.

02:52 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yes. And, uh, yeah, that's where I come from, from that side. From my father's side, I'm Librov, Sadye Librov.

03:01 Speaker 2 So describe a little bit your two zaydes, Reb Sadye and Reb Mendel.

03:05 Speaker 1 Mm, quite know. It's, uh, repetitive a little bit, but you know.

03:10 Speaker 2 No. How many times have people heard about these two people from their, from their grandson? Probably not so many.

03:16 Speaker 1 Okay.

03:17 Speaker 2 Reb Mendel, Reb Mendel at this point is a, is a caricature. I mean, he's a, like, he's a legend kind of thing.

03:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. Um, I even meet all different, you know, Poleshok Hasidim that get very inspired by his name.

03:30 Speaker 2 Yeah.

03:30 Speaker 1 For some reason, he really got in there very strong. The Poleshok world, they very inspired.

03:35 Speaker 2 The Poleshok world also.

03:36 Speaker 1 Poleshok world-

03:36 Speaker 2 He was cir-- He was circulating on the internet a few months ago, Mendel Puterpass.

03:40 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but mainly in the Hasidish world, you know, Meylech Biderman keeps mentioning him, and, uh-

03:46 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

03:46 Speaker 1 So Baruch Hashem, at least he has, you know, he has, uh, people hopefully will learn from him, from his, uh, serious Nefesh. But even more, a stronger point I think of his serious Nefesh is his absolute devotion to the Rebbe. Absolute. Mamash. You know, um, the Rebbe was his only thing in his life. And, um, uh, what else should I say? I mean, everything is known.

04:09 Speaker 2 And I, and I was-- I know we're jumping around a little bit, but, but Reb Mendel w-went into Siberia, obviously, the time that the Friediker Rebbe was Rebbe, right?

04:19 Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.

04:21 Speaker 2 That's what he knew.

04:22 Speaker 1 Right.

04:22 Speaker 2 When did he find out that there was a new Rebbe? And, and when did-- Like, how did, how did he, how did he deal with that?

04:29 Speaker 1 I'm not so good at all the stories, but everything is, like, kind of printed already. But basically, the interrogator, I think, uh, um, kind of teased him with it and, uh, something like that with the passing of the Friediker Rebbe. I, I, I don't-- I'm not-- I don't remember exactly, so I don't wanna say things that are not, you know, Meduyak.

04:45 Speaker 2 Okay, so let's talk about your per-

04:46 Speaker 1 Yeah.

04:46 Speaker 2 Let's talk about your personal experience with him.

04:48 Speaker 1 But the famous story that everyone really knows is about the letter that he got from the Friediker Rebbe, um, you know, the email, as he call it, that he, uh, that he, uh, communicated with the Friediker Rebbe based on what he heard from the Friediker Rebbe when the Friediker Rebbe left Russia about Machshava Me'eres, that, you know, that, um, um, Vetachten, "You'll think, and I'll think, uh, or communicate." So he, he had to write-- he wanted to write a letter about, uh, about his wife, my, my grandmother, which was very sick on the way out of Russia. And when he had an opportunity, when he settled, uh, kind of after the interrogations and so on, so he kind of, uh, wanted to communicate, but how's he gonna communicate, you know? No paper, no envelope, no stamp, no or whatever. So he, he, he was writing it in his mind. He, he was writing a letter in his mind, uh, asking for a bracha, and believing like every Hasid believes. But you know, you don't expect a physical response. You expect, uh, same way. You think he'll think and, uh, But sure enough, he didn't know this till twenty years later. But sure enough, a letter did come, uh, back, uh, wherever the family, wherever my grandmother was at the time, I think in Germany, somewhere on the way. So, uh, a letter came from the Friediker Rebbe, and the letter says, "In response to your pan that you, uh, you're asking for bracha," and he,

06:11 Speaker 1 he gave an answer. So, um, it was-- it came back in writing So that's, that's a fascinating-- I mean, you know, you, you, we, we don't have so many stories literally like that, but it teaches. It's, it's a, it's resembling a cloud. It teaches us that there is communication. You know, the Rebbe finds it, like the Rebbe said about the resembling a cloud finding the way. So also today that we don't have the ability to write to the Rebbe, we c- we can write, but it's not the same, you know. So we believe that the Rebbe finds ways of communication. But this is just a unbelievable example, which is a fascinating story. But you do them a person, you know.

06:45 Speaker 2 Right. Right. It's still a beautiful story.

06:47 Speaker 1 Yeah.

06:47 Speaker 2 So when w- when was the first time you met him? Because you, you, you, you were growing up in England with your, with your parents, right?

06:53 Speaker 1 So I actually have, I have disclosed that he, he was my sandek.

06:57 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah?

06:58 Speaker 1 Yeah, because I, I was the first, uh, I was the first grandchild born after he came. He came in-

07:04 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

07:04 Speaker 1 ... Teshmel Tov Dalal, and I was born in Teshmel Tov Eh. So, uh, a year plus.

07:09 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

07:10 Speaker 1 Actually, not long ago, my older brother told me a very good feeling story that he says, "I entered, I entered into the world with a fabregen." Why? Because-

07:20 Speaker 2 That you entered or your brother?

07:22 Speaker 1 No, my brother was telling me about me. I don't-

07:23 Speaker 2 Your older-

07:23 Speaker 1 Yeah.

07:23 Speaker 2 Your older brother?

07:24 Speaker 1 Yeah. I don't remember when I entered into the world.

07:26 Speaker 2 That's what I was saying. I didn't know if it's-

07:27 Speaker 1 No, he was telling me that, that, uh, like I didn't know this till a couple of years ago. Now he said that, that, um, um, naturally, my, my, my grandfather at that time was staying by my father. Let's say it was in our house. And, um, and, you know, usually it's baby's born, baby's born, it comes from resembling Zacha. But over here, because of, you know, all the excitement in Mendel Futerfas, so people came over to say mazel tov to him. For him, it was a big simcha, you know.

07:52 Speaker 2 The f- first eynikl born after he came back.

07:54 Speaker 1 Yes. Yeah. So, uh, so when, when they came in to, you know, say mazel tov, what, what happens when you come to say mazel tov to the Mendel Futerfas, you know? It became a fabregen. So as soon, as soon after my birth, there was already a fabregen. Like I came in with a fabregen. It's an interesting episode, you know, besides the resembling Zacha. So he was my sandek, yeah. Um, also by mamish, I-- one of my children managed to be, uh, maybe even the last that he was a sandek. I, I, uh, you know, my first two boys-- No, actually my first boy, so my father was a sandek. And my second boy, my father-in-law wasn't exactly around. He, he wasn't here even. But my zeide, m- my second boy was born actually, uh, um, Sivan Teshmel Tov Dalet. So his bris was Monday morning, Dalet Tamuz, Teshmel Tov Dalet.

08:47 Speaker 2 Wow.

08:48 Speaker 1 Right, right after. It was like a chaotic bris, obviously. You see, there was no sudda. Whatever. It was, you know, it was what it was.

08:52 Speaker 2 There was no sudda.

08:54 Speaker 1 Yeah, as far as I remember, there was... Whatever. You can understand what was going on the next day.

08:58 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

08:58 Speaker 1 So, uh, but my zeide is-- And I, I invited, uh, Shloime Modjeski. I was looking for a 13-year-old.

09:06 Speaker 2 To be a sandek?

09:06 Speaker 1 To be a sandek, and he came along, tak, you know. He, he-- I barely came along, whatever. But, you know, we, we, you know, he was there already with his tallis. It-- This is all happening, you know, and there's no plans. So I already spoke to him before Shabbos about being the sandek. So he showed up one day morning in the Chabad House.

09:22 Speaker 2 Uh, here? Here in Flatbush?

09:24 Speaker 1 It wasn't here. Yeah, in Flatbush, yeah.

09:25 Speaker 2 Flatbush.

09:25 Speaker 1 In, uh, in Ocean Avenue.

09:27 Speaker 2 Right.

09:27 Speaker 1 And then my zeide flew in like a lot of people. He came in also Gimmel Tamuz.

09:31 Speaker 2 Your zeide, Mendel.

09:32 Speaker 1 Yeah. He flew in from Eretz Israel. He wasn't really doing well, but he, whatever, he just, he flew in, and he was here Sunday. And then naturally Monday morning, his eynikl is having a bris.

09:42 Speaker 2 He came to the bris.

09:43 Speaker 1 His ur-eynikl. So he came. And he's there, and he's not gonna be the sandek. So I remember the-- I have a memory of that. You know, I walked over to Shloime, and I said, "Shloime, my zeide is here. Could you please..." "Sure." He's my button. And then later, Shloime was the sandek of another one of my sons, the one passed away, unfortunately. But, um, so my z- so my zeide was a sandek for this, uh... He's now a shliach in Brazil, Yossi. So, uh, he was his sandek. I, I mean, otherwise, he-- I wouldn't have had him as a sandek, you know.

10:10 Speaker 2 Right.

10:11 Speaker 1 He just came to Flatbush.

10:11 Speaker 2 He wouldn't, he, he wouldn't have been here.

10:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, and then he stayed a couple of days. He couldn't really move around so much. He stayed in the Chabad House until he went back to England. And then, like I told you before, he, he didn't end up coming anymore to the Rebbe, so he lasted one more year. Gimmel Tamuz, Teshmel Tov, now on Eh. And the next day, Rebbe Yushanov, Yomi nine, he lo- he, he passed away. That, that's his-

10:32 Speaker 2 What, what was he like in private? Uh, do you have any zecher of him as a zeide-

10:37 Speaker 1 I mean, I, I, again, you know-

10:37 Speaker 2 ... like outside of the public persona?

10:39 Speaker 1 Again, I'm not, I'm not, you know, uh, I'm not a Balzikern. I don't have such memory, but I did live by him. One year, I was completely, you know, I lived over there, mamish.

10:48 Speaker 2 Where? Where was this?

10:48 Speaker 1 In Klachabad. I, I-

10:49 Speaker 2 Klachabad.

10:50 Speaker 1 Yeah.

10:50 Speaker 2 So he moved to Eretz Israel after your mother passed away.

10:53 Speaker 1 Well, the Rebbe s- the Rebbe kind of already spoke to him a little bit about it. Uh, Shloime Chaim Katzman passed away in the year Teshmel Tov Lamed Aleph. So, so again, not-- All these things are not-

11:03 Speaker 2 And your zeide at the time was in-

11:04 Speaker 1 London

11:05 Speaker 2 ... London.

11:05 Speaker 1 London. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:06 Speaker 2 What did he do in London between Chof Dalet and Lamed Aleph? What, how did he keep himself busy?

11:11 Speaker 1 Um, he was, he was, uh, I, I think he opened up with the help of Deitch, his cousin. Chaim Zeide was a sekhar.

11:17 Speaker 2 Right. He comes from a family-

11:18 Speaker 1 Right

11:18 Speaker 2 ... of sekharim.

11:19 Speaker 1 Uh, yeah.

11:19 Speaker 2 His, his father was.

11:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. As far as I understand it, the, all the business that he ran in the, in the '30s, in the tzaddiks or whatever, in the, in, in Russia, was all a business to make money for Techtanim. There was no, uh-

11:30 Speaker 2 Who's this? The zeide?

11:30 Speaker 1 My zeide, yeah. My zeide. Well, he did-- He, whatever he-- I don't even know what he did exactly.

11:35 Speaker 2 Right.

11:35 Speaker 1 But he was-

11:35 Speaker 2 You're saying in the com-- the, the black market businesses.

11:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, something like that. He was a-

11:39 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah

11:39 Speaker 1 ... he was a shrewd person.

11:40 Speaker 2 No, I'm saying his father had a factory in Kharkov.

11:43 Speaker 1 That I didn't even know.

11:44 Speaker 2 Yeah.

11:44 Speaker 1 His father?

11:45 Speaker 2 His father, Mendel Futerfas and Mariasha.

11:47 Speaker 1 Yeah.

11:48 Speaker 2 The one that passed away before him.

11:49 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:49 Speaker 2 Mendel by Mendel, right?

11:50 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

11:50 Speaker 2 So Mendel Futerfas Senior-

11:52 Speaker 1 Yeah

11:52 Speaker 2 ... had a rubber boot factory in Kharkov.

11:55 Speaker 1 Oh. Could be. Okay. It's all-

11:55 Speaker 2 They were, they were, they were relatively well-to-do people back then.

11:58 Speaker 1 Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

11:59 Speaker 2 I was told that, that the money that his mother had as an almona, she had a little bit of money, um, uh, you know, left from the business, whatever, whatever she had. Again, she sold the business or whatever it was. A lot of that money went to paying for Mendel and Hendel to go to Techtanim-

12:15 Speaker 1 Uh-huh

12:15 Speaker 2 ... and for people to watch them while they were there.

12:17 Speaker 1 Okay.

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13:18 Speaker 1 I, I, I wonder if he-- Now they're giving out a new book again. A lot of work is going to it. I wonder if that information is them, Stama. I, I didn't remember that piece of information. But the whole way, as far as I understand, he was a, he was a good-- You know, he was shrewd. Everyone knows. And he used to make money for Temim Kadumim, not for himself.

13:35 Speaker 2 Right.

13:35 Speaker 1 But then when he came to England, so he, um, he opened up a business.

13:40 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

13:41 Speaker 1 Yeah, we-- I remember as a child, you know, Ness Plastics it was called. I'll show him the Ness of him coming out of Russia, Ness Plastics.

13:47 Speaker 2 And he worked with the Dutch from, from America.

13:49 Speaker 1 And, yeah. Yeah, but I don't know how much he was... I don't remember him. I, mm, okay, I was a baby when he came. I was just born, right? In my growing up years, uh, so that's the thing. Could be when I, when I, when I, when I can remember is, like, when I'm six or seven, so then he already kind of is on, is in Eretz Yisroel. So I ca- I don't really have a time that I could have remembered, but I don't know how much he was physically involved. I'd have to ask my older brother if he was physically involved in the Mischler or just, you know, on the outskirts of it. But what I didn't, what I didn't, what I do know is, I heard or whatever, that the bit-- the way the business worked was is fifty percent was Beis Lubavitch, and the other fifty was divided between the three families, my Zayda and my father and my uncle. That's what I understood. That can be confirmed by Berel Foot the Vast, but this is what I always remember.

14:34 Speaker 2 That fifty percent of the business went to-

14:35 Speaker 1 Fifty was Beis Lubavitch. It was a shutaf, a hundred percent shutaf of Beis Lubavitch.

14:39 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

14:39 Speaker 1 So, and, and then he, I guess, you know, he used to-- He had his kviyes that he used to go, um, you know, uh, he continued it even after he became a Mashpiah in Eretz Yisroel in Chabad, but he, he had his kviyes that he used to spend a couple of months, you know, uh, raising money for Zecharyim, for, uh, for Alef Tairya. That's a very interesting story about Alef Tairya, that he, he used to raise money for Pidyon Shvuyim. That was, that's what it was called. I think it was to, it was to go to the Rebbe and, and I'm not sure exactly the details.

15:08 Speaker 2 There are a lot of famous stories that people say of him going to businessmen with Kunin and, like, all over America, right?

15:12 Speaker 1 Yeah, like Kunin. He used to go to Shmuel from Leipzig.

15:15 Speaker 2 Uh, yeah.

15:15 Speaker 1 Leipzig. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's true.

15:16 Speaker 2 Same, but in California.

15:17 Speaker 1 He had his-- He was a shadchan. He used to fablink California, Michigan.

15:22 Speaker 2 I didn't know, though, that he was a businessman also. That, like, he took care of himself on his own, and then this was for the moises.

15:27 Speaker 1 Hundred percent.

15:28 Speaker 2 He wasn't living off, off the fundraising.

15:30 Speaker 1 No.

15:31 Speaker 2 No, I didn't know-

15:32 Speaker 1 I don't think, I don't think he took a percent even.

15:33 Speaker 2 That's what I'm saying. I don't-

15:34 Speaker 1 No, he was a shadchan. He was raising money. But it's a very interesting story, but that, that, that, um, he, he-

15:41 Speaker 2 I didn't know that shadjans were businessmen sometimes. I didn't know that.

15:44 Speaker 1 No, I don't think-- I don't know. You know, there's different types of shadjans.

15:47 Speaker 2 I'm saying I didn't know that that was a thing. Apparently-

15:49 Speaker 1 No

15:49 Speaker 2 ...with him it was a thing.

15:50 Speaker 1 Yeah, but he wasn't really... That's what I'm saying. I don't know how much he was involved in the actual business. You know what I mean?

15:54 Speaker 2 Yeah, but he was doing something.

15:55 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Whatever. But he was a shadchan. He used to fablink-

15:58 Speaker 2 Right

15:58 Speaker 1 ...and, um, and raise money for, for the Rebbe's moises. That's why. I don't know exactly which, you know. Then they wanted him, he should raise money for Alef Tairya. For Alef Tairya, was it in England? I'm not sure exactly where, but he, he asked the Rebbe in Yechida, something like that, and, and, and he told the Rebbe something that he's raising money for Pidyon Shvuyim. So the Rebbe said, "Nisht, uh, uh, for kinder was learning nisht in the mud-- to save kids from learning in the mud, there was Pidyon Shvuyim." Be- uh, address the Pidyon Shvuyim.

16:24 Speaker 2 Uh, really?

16:25 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. That's how strong. It's a very powerful, uh, line.

16:27 Speaker 2 So that's, so that's-

16:28 Speaker 1 He raised also for that. I don't know exactly how the raising went, you know what I mean?

16:31 Speaker 2 Right.

16:31 Speaker 1 Um, my, my cousin, Shloime Foot the Vast, even traveled to him several times, and, uh, I, I don't know much about, you know, the details, but that's, that's what he used to do. He used to fablink in gates at him, snog the sh places, you know. They-- He was accepted. And then we start with what his main occupation was. It was Which was? Which was our-- the car accident when my mother passed away. So-

17:43 Speaker 2 I don't know this story. I mean, I've heard, I've heard-

17:45 Speaker 1 Oh, I mean, there's a big mess because that car, those days, my father was driving and my mother was in the front. And she was-

17:50 Speaker 2 Where was this? In England?

17:51 Speaker 1 England, yeah. And she was also pregnant and had a baby brother, which was not even a year old. And, uh, in those days, there were no minivans and seat belts and moises. It was a cargo, a small cargo van that my father had, and we were ten kids in the car.

18:03 Speaker 2 Your, your father's also a businessman.

18:05 Speaker 1 My father worked in Ness Plastics.

18:07 Speaker 2 Oh, he worked-

18:07 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah

18:08 Speaker 2 ...with you. He worked with-

18:08 Speaker 1 Yeah

18:09 Speaker 2 ...with the Shrey, yeah.

18:09 Speaker 1 Yeah. And, um, and then, uh, it was a t- it was a, a c- an accident that the car turned over, and all ten of us-

18:18 Speaker 2 Where was this? On the highway?

18:19 Speaker 1 It was, uh, right before the tunnel, the back tunnel it's called, yeah, anyways. I don't remember. And the... And I was, uh, out of the 10 children that were there, besides my father and mother, so I was the only one that went to the hospital 'cause I sprained my back. I was sitting on a cookie box, whatever, for two, three days, and my little brother was there just for checkups. So we all came out, Mom was unharmed. My father got, was injured, and then my mother passed away.

18:45 Speaker 2 From the accident?

18:46 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So, so, um, so I'm saying, the rabbi said, "He should always bet now with the Zahaven." It was a kind of a or something like that, you know? Yeah.

18:55 Speaker 2 How old were you when this happened?

18:57 Speaker 1 I was, uh, six years old.

18:58 Speaker 2 Six years old.

18:59 Speaker 1 Yeah. And, um, uh, whatever. And then, and then after that, the following year was already when, you know, it, it ki- it kind of came together, this, this accident and, and then, uh, passing away before that. So the next, the following year, he, he was sent to be a Chabad.

19:17 Speaker 2 Right.

19:18 Speaker 1 So that's when, that's when he comes, he comes there to Shull.

19:20 Speaker 2 And, and by him you mean him and your bubbe. We haven't spoken about her yet, but, but-

19:24 Speaker 1 Him?

19:24 Speaker 2 And your bu- and his wife.

19:26 Speaker 1 Talking about, I'm talking about my zayde.

19:28 Speaker 2 Right, but he went there to Shull with, with his-

19:30 Speaker 1 Wife, yeah, yeah

19:30 Speaker 2 ... with his wife, right?

19:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

19:31 Speaker 2 'Cause we haven't mentioned her.

19:32 Speaker 1 You know... Yeah, yeah.

19:32 Speaker 2 He wasn't single.

19:33 Speaker 1 No.

19:34 Speaker 2 Right, right.

19:34 Speaker 1 No, no, sure.

19:34 Speaker 2 I was... I'm, I'm assu- for people that don't know the history-

19:36 Speaker 1 Right, right, right. No, he was-

19:37 Speaker 2 His wife was in England-

19:38 Speaker 1 Right

19:38 Speaker 2 ... while he was in Russia.

19:39 Speaker 1 Right.

19:40 Speaker 2 And then he came out.

19:40 Speaker 1 For 20, yeah, for, for close to 20, 20 years.

19:42 Speaker 2 Right, they were married before. They were married in Russia.

19:44 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, sure.

19:44 Speaker 2 Then she, she escaped, he stayed. Maybe we should... Let's cover that briefly, the little bit that you know.

19:49 Speaker 1 The, the, the-

19:49 Speaker 2 I know you're gonna take it all the same, but-

19:51 Speaker 1 Very imp- very, um, very important part of that story is that everyone knows that he was involved with the Mochkins and the, the underground, the operation.

19:57 Speaker 2 One second, let me just open up for people-

19:58 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah

19:59 Speaker 2 ... 'cause not everyone-

19:59 Speaker 1 I can

19:59 Speaker 2 ... not everyone knows.

20:00 Speaker 1 I can. Yeah.

20:00 Speaker 2 I mean, even I don't know all the details, but basically, after the war was over, uh, Second World War, there was a for the-

20:07 Speaker 1 Right, an, an opportunity because the, the Russians, they didn't let anyone out-

20:11 Speaker 2 Besides the Polish

20:11 Speaker 1 ... let, let the Polish, uh, people that came in from the war-

20:14 Speaker 2 Right

20:14 Speaker 1 ... to go back out. So that was, uh, that opportunity they took advantage of.

20:17 Speaker 2 And they forged Polish-

20:18 Speaker 1 And they forged Polish documents, . And they, they, hundreds of, uh, of, of, uh, Lubavitchers became big families, came out at that time out of Russia. They escaped.

20:29 Speaker 2 Yeah, both, both sides of my family came out that way.

20:31 Speaker 1 Right, right. And even the rebbe's mother came out that-

20:34 Speaker 2 Right

20:34 Speaker 1 ... like that, Rebbetzin Chana. So, um-

20:38 Speaker 2 And then Mendel was involved in the Mochkins

20:39 Speaker 1 ... and at a certain point he was very involved.

20:40 Speaker 2 Right.

20:41 Speaker 1 He was one of, you know, there was, uh, a bunch of people. I don't remember exactly all of them, the Mochkins, and there was, um, Mumusara, and so on. And then when the, when he started to, when they started to feel that the S- the Soviets are-

20:53 Speaker 2 Picking up

20:53 Speaker 1 ... locking on, locking in, so he, at that point, it was, like, the last hope. So he was gonna go naturally, he was gonna hop on the last train together with his family. And then Reb Yechezkel Paltava, which was also part of it, Yehuda Kahn, his name was, I think. I think upstairs in Olam Kodesh in , I think it's, it used to or it still is now, has his, uh, name on Olam Kodesh. So Yehuda Paltava told him, "I didn't, I never knew that has a limit." means ego till the end. Whatever was, whatever was the, there was still to do, I don't know. But so he took it, it, it really got to the right place, and, uh, he sent his family, and he stayed till, till the end.

21:35 Speaker 2 And Yehuda Paltava also stayed?

21:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, sure. Yehuda wouldn't go. Yehuda Paltava, I don't even know exactly what happened, if he survived or not. They arrested all the Chebra eventually. And some of them were killed, and some of them di- I don't know exactly. And he, he survived. I don't... He's, and, like, the Mochkins somehow. I don't know the details of who got-

21:52 Speaker 2 But it's not negative. For Mendel-

21:53 Speaker 1 Right

21:54 Speaker 2 ... or your zayde-

21:54 Speaker 1 He survived, you know, b- b- b- it's related a lot to his strength and his, his shrewdness.

22:01 Speaker 2 Your zayde.

22:03 Speaker 1 yeah, obviously. And they always do whatever one can. So he survived through the jail period in Siberia, and yeah. That's, that's basically the story.

22:11 Speaker 2 Right, so but-

22:11 Speaker 1 But the, the point is that doesn't have a limit.

22:14 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a-

22:15 Speaker 1 You can't say, "I'm doing till here, till..."

22:17 Speaker 2 No, the, the point of the story is it's a nice wart, but he actually-

22:21 Speaker 1 He lived it, yeah

22:21 Speaker 2 ... he paid the, he paid the price for it.

22:22 Speaker 1 Right, right, right.

22:23 Speaker 2 It's a, as, as a wart, I can see a lot of people saying, you know, in the mikvah late in the morning in Crown Heights, but, you know. What, what are-

22:29 Speaker 1 They live it, yeah

22:29 Speaker 2 ... what are the consequences?

22:30 Speaker 1 Yeah.

22:31 Speaker 2 So your, so your bubbe lived in London for 20 years.

22:34 Speaker 1 My bubbe, yeah, yeah.

22:35 Speaker 2 And she didn't know if he was alive or not a lot of that time, right?

22:37 Speaker 1 No, I, I mean, at, at a certain point, they already had information. I don't know-

22:41 Speaker 2 But it, it was, it wasn't exactly... You didn't have, uh, amnesty, uh, whatever, what are these, these organizations checking up on the prisoners.

22:48 Speaker 1 Very strange. But they knew, they knew, I mean, I don't know. I don't know the-

22:51 Speaker 2 It's a difficult time is all my, is my point.

22:52 Speaker 1 Right. I don't know exactly what degree, but, uh-

22:54 Speaker 2 They weren't in touch on a regular basis.

22:55 Speaker 1 Right. For sure.

22:56 Speaker 2 And, and, and he came back to London 20 years later, so when your-

22:59 Speaker 1 Right

22:59 Speaker 2 ... when your mother passed away, and then they moved to Eretz Israel, it was with your bubbe. I just wanted to clarify that for people.

23:05 Speaker 1 Right, right, right. Yes. And a few, and a few members of my family went along 'cause they, 'cause they were nice to him.

23:10 Speaker 2 A few of your older siblings?

23:11 Speaker 1 Uh, two, two sisters and, uh, and one, and the baby boy. The baby, which is, you know, his name is Yisroelik.

23:17 Speaker 2 Yeah.

23:17 Speaker 1 So he, he went along also. And, um, yeah. And then later, I guess it was, uh, they asked the rebbe, and the rebbe, they, they took, they took me also when I was 11. Uh, so I stayed there. I, I lived in Chabad in Talmud Torah. And then I went on to yeshiva in Lod, so I was dorming, but, but that was my house, so, uh, yeah. So-

23:40 Speaker 2 What, what was it like to live with him at home? I mean, describe to, describe to me-

23:44 Speaker 1 It was nice

23:45 Speaker 2 ... describe him to me as a zayde, not as a ni-

23:47 Speaker 1 Right. I, I have a memory of me being very homesick, like, a few months later, Pesach time, and, uh, him, I remember him sitting on my bed and calming me down. Well, I don't remember what he was telling me, but, uh, yeah, whatever. He was, uh, he was always a k- you know, a, a but, uh, but he was, I mean, like, family person. I mean, you know, just talking about family, just lately they circulated somehow, I don't know, it just somehow got out, and people are circulating a picture of my first sister's, uh, wedding, um, to Weingarten in, uh, Grand Rapids, Michigan. So the family picture, he's laying over there. He's laying. A family picture, but he's laying on, on a few chairs.

24:30 Speaker 2 Oh, I think I've seen that picture, yeah.

24:31 Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, that's what he was, you know. He was, uh, I mean, you know. I remember, obviously, you know, he was always, you know, whenever he traveled, uh, anyone asked him, "Take me something," he always took, you know. My grandmother sometimes used to get all upset.

24:44 Speaker 2 He was a, he was a happy person?

24:46 Speaker 1 Very, very. Sure.

24:48 Speaker 2 Okay. He lived a very difficult life.

24:50 Speaker 1 Right. But he was, um, he-

24:51 Speaker 2 I mean, I mean, for those, again, for those who don't know, he passed away, his father had passed away while his mother was pregnant.

24:57 Speaker 1 Right.

24:57 Speaker 2 So he passed away without a father.

24:58 Speaker 1 Right.

24:58 Speaker 2 He m- named after his father.

25:00 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

25:00 Speaker 2 Then the-

25:00 Speaker 1 Born without, born without a father.

25:01 Speaker 2 Yeah, right. He was born without a father. Then he, then he, like you said, he was in Siberia with his family in England, uh, uh, separated completely for 20 years, and then he came, he came to England. His, his, his sister, Esther Goldberg, passed away just earlier-

25:17 Speaker 1 Right, Esther Abigail

25:17 Speaker 2 ... just before. His mother had passed away a few years before.

25:20 Speaker 1 Right.

25:20 Speaker 2 Right? And, and then his daughter passes away a few years later. I mean, these are-- each of these on their own are enough to break a person.

25:27 Speaker 1 Yeah, but he... Right. But he, he-- Like I said before, I was telling you the story.

25:30 Speaker 2 I wanted you to say it again.

25:31 Speaker 1 Yeah. So, so, um, so e-even though he was a person in the years, uh, I mean, I think all his life, but at least when I remember him, a Lubavitcher person, a person with a smile. Uh, you know, his farbrengens, his farbrengens were, were not musar. His farbrengens were jokes, were-- He was like, you know, Mendel Mohirov. Uh, if you-- people know him, it's the same style. He was, he was a geschmacke person. That's how he attracted everyone. His, his-- It was a geschmack. It was like a, a h-happening, uh, by his farbrengens, and, uh, some people would call him like a letz. You know what I mean? Like, you know-

26:04 Speaker 2 Right

26:04 Speaker 1 ... everything goes well. So, but even a person like that sometimes can get really, you know, uh, can get hurt. So the story that I, that I, that I, that I know, and I heard this from someone that... Like a firsthand story that, uh, Reb Moshe Katz of Munkacs was with him in the car, uh, on the way to or from the levaya of his daughter, and he was a kind of pounding to himself. He was, like, saying, "Mendel, Mendel, " Is the, is chapter eleven in, uh, in the Igeres HaKodesh in Tanya, where the Alter Rebbe-- It's just interesting, interesting point I wanna bring out over here. The Alter Rebbe discusses in two or three places in Tanya, in chapter Havav, and in chapter, uh, of Likutei Amarim, chapter twelve of Igeres HaTeshuva, and chapter eleven of Igeres HaKodesh. Those are three locations where the Alter Rebbe discusses the attitude that a person is supposed to have towards suffering, unfortunately, for all our enemies. But when it comes upon us, what, what, what kind of attitude? So in chapter Havav, similar to chapter Y et Beis in Igeres HaTeshuva, the Alter Rebbe focuses on explaining us the benefits. After all, there's a benefit. Because it saves you from-

27:18 Speaker 2 Right

27:18 Speaker 1 ... worse stuff. So kind of is, is psychologically telling you it's worth it.

27:25 Speaker 2 Right.

27:25 Speaker 1 But in Igeres HaKodesh, Alter Rebbe's approach is completely different. He says, "What? You think that the Aibishter did bad to you? What, what's wrong with you? You're It's clear, 'cause the only one that can do anything is the Aibishter, and the Aibishter is good. So it's gotta be good. And, and you can't-- If you doubt it, it's..." So the whole approach is completely-- There's no benefits. There-- No one's promising you anything good. It's all about, uh, it's all about believing in the Aibishter. And, uh, that's why we also always ask. The, the Rebbe always says, So here he's slapped with such a slap that, you know, he barely-- After he loses four children in, in, in the, in the, in the time of the war or whatever, from, from machlas, from sicknesses and things-

28:07 Speaker 2 When, when they were young.

28:08 Speaker 1 When they were young. They-- Children, you know, I don't know exactly the age range, but it was like, you know, from, from, from one till four.

28:14 Speaker 2 Yeah.

28:14 Speaker 1 Four boys, four children.

28:15 Speaker 2 So there's two surviving children and one-

28:17 Speaker 1 Two surviving children, and one of them now, a few years after he comes out of Russia, leaves eleven, elevenreis yamim. So this is, you know... So even a guy like him, uh, uh, which from, from me knowing him, I, I wouldn't expect him to be broken s-s-'cause he was such a Lubavitcher person. But seemingly, it hits a person.

28:37 Speaker 2 In private, he was saying to himself, "What, what's it gonna be?"

28:39 Speaker 1 So he was saying to himself, like, in the car, he was like, "What's-- Mendel, Mendel, " That's the opening two words of that chapter. What's gonna be? Like, where, where are you floating, you know, with your thoughts? The Aibishter did it, and, you know, that's, and that's how he lived. His life was full of emunah and bitachon, and he, and he s-- It was s-- You know, he spread it. All the people that got close, you know, that, that, that, that had to do with him always had that feeling.

29:05 Speaker 2 In private, you never sensed any heartbrokenness with him?

29:08 Speaker 1 Mm, I can't remember anything like that.

29:12 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

29:13 Speaker 1 Can't remember. A Lubavitcher person, he used to daven baAvoda, uh, for hours, that I remember. And, uh, my bubbe never heard from him Kiddush on Shabbos afternoon.

29:24 Speaker 2 She was okay with that?

29:25 Speaker 1 Yeah.

29:27 Speaker 2 What's your bubbe-

29:27 Speaker 1 And then, and then she gets a lot of credit because after all, her life was, you know-

29:31 Speaker 2 She also lived a hard life.

29:32 Speaker 1 For sure, for sure. She-- Mendel is, is a, is a Hasid. He's a Temimah. He's whatever he is. She, she was a-- I'm not gonna say an ordinary woman, chas ve'shalom. I mean, she was-- But-

29:46 Speaker 2 She wasn't put through the fire of Temimah that way. She-

29:48 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. It's different. She-

29:49 Speaker 2 Also, also-

29:50 Speaker 1 She, she, after my mother passed away, she couldn't get over it for years.

29:54 Speaker 2 Really?

29:54 Speaker 1 For years. Oh, she, she was... I remember, phew, for her-- Like, saying for Mendel, the way people know him, you can understand how he overcame it. But for her, you can understand what kind of macher it was for her, I mean.

30:06 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

30:08 Speaker 1 Yeah. So she had, she had a very hard time.

30:09 Speaker 2 What was her maiden name?

30:11 Speaker 1 Rubinson.

30:12 Speaker 2 Rubinson. So that's a Lubavitch family from-

30:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah

30:14 Speaker 2 ... from Russia.

30:15 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. They have, you have a-

30:16 Speaker 2 Yeah, there's other Rubinsons, yeah.

30:19 Speaker 1 She had a brother that lived in, uh, in, uh, Lud-- Uh, whatever. I mean, there's a lot, uh-

30:26 Speaker 2 Right. How did your-- Was your Zaidy Libarov alive then?

30:30 Speaker 1 Yeah. Alive when-- Yeah.

30:31 Speaker 2 How did he take it?

30:34 Speaker 1 Um, that, that his daughter-in-law passed away? I, I don't remember exactly, but, uh, he was, uh... Whatever. I don't remember. All right?

30:45 Speaker 2 Let's talk a little about your Zaidy Libarov.

30:47 Speaker 1 Yeah. So he was a shliach to Morocco.

30:49 Speaker 2 All right.

30:50 Speaker 1 In-

30:50 Speaker 2 Together with-

30:51 Speaker 1 Together.

30:52 Speaker 2 Together.

30:52 Speaker 1 Together at the same time, more or less. You know, those days-

30:54 Speaker 2 With Reb Matusov?

30:54 Speaker 1 ... Matusov was there. Uh, uh, what's his name? Deraspin and, and, um, and Edelman come a little later.

31:00 Speaker 2 Right.

31:00 Speaker 1 They're in the late yuds, in the late fifties. But he's there in five hundred and eighty-one. And, um-

31:06 Speaker 2 With Matusov

31:07 Speaker 1 Uh, yeah, but he wasn't in the same place. He was, uh, he, uh, Matusov was Casablanca. He was in, uh, Safrou. It's a different area. And he-- the reason why he eventually left was I think the Friediker Rebbe spoke to him about, uh... There was-- when-whenever, I don't remember exactly when it was, but the, not spoke, I mean, it was in letters. He didn't, he didn't see the Friediker R- I mean, um, you know, he came out of Russia befo-uh, before, before, um, before the Friediker Rebbe passed away, but he didn't, he didn't make it here to America, to New York.

31:35 Speaker 2 To America, yeah.

31:37 Speaker 1 Yeah. Um, by the way, he, he, uh, he actually, uh, uh, interesting, uh, he, he as a bachur, for some reason, he davened from the Friediker Rebbe, uh, the first year after Rebbe Rashab passed away. So, so the Friediker Rebbe got very sick, gedola, it was like two months, and the Friediker Rebbe was mamesh-

31:54 Speaker 2 Touch and go

31:54 Speaker 1 ... out. Huh?

31:56 Speaker 2 Uh, very, very not well.

31:56 Speaker 1 Very sick, yeah. So, uh, so he, he, he was picked for some reason to daven for the amud and say kaddish as part of the shnas avelus for the Rebbe Rashab.

32:04 Speaker 2 'Cause the Friediker wasn't shайkh, uh-

32:06 Speaker 1 No, the Friediker was completely, uh, yeah.

32:09 Speaker 2 Right.

32:09 Speaker 1 So, so, um, yeah. So he, he, uh, there was discussion about two options. You know, everyone that came out of Russia was sent somewhere. I always, I always tell this to people to understand what's meant to Lubavitch shluchas. You know, guys just crawled out of Soviet Union, to Brooklyn, to Shasman-

32:26 Speaker 2 Right, right

32:26 Speaker 1 ... Morocco, Tunis. You know what I mean? It's crazy. Think about it. Yeah.

32:29 Speaker 2 It's absolu- it's absolutely crazy.

32:31 Speaker 1 Yeah.

32:31 Speaker 2 Yeah.

32:31 Speaker 1 So, so he, he was, yeah. So, so there was a discussion. The, the Belgium was mentioned, Belgium-

32:36 Speaker 2 Oh

32:37 Speaker 1 ... Antwerpen. I don't know as what, but whatever the... And, uh, Morocco, whatever. But Lapeer, Tafshin Yud, and then the Friedi- the Rebbe is continuing the, the Morocco shlichas started from the Friediker Rebbe, but the Rebbe extend- uh, continued it. So, so he was sent Tafshin Yud Alef, and he was, um, he was there till, uh, till... I think what happened was this Nagadir, which is nearby Safrou, there was a massive earthquake then.

33:01 Speaker 2 Hmm.

33:01 Speaker 1 A lot of people were killed. So I think that the whole vicinity, the whole area kind of left, went to Safrou. I don't know. Basically-

33:08 Speaker 2 People got scared, yeah

33:09 Speaker 1 ... basically got emptied out. So his, his location was basically empty, and there was no point of even going to Casablanca at the time. Whatever. So I don't know exactly how it developed, but Lapeer, he went to the place that the Friediker Rebbe mentioned already tw- you know, thir- 13 years before, but yeah. So he ended up in Belgium. That's in Antwerpen.

33:26 Speaker 2 And had shlichas?

33:28 Speaker 1 He had shlichas, but a different type of schlichus. He was like a, he was like a very, a very influential mashpia, a different style than my Zayde completely. I remember-

33:36 Speaker 2 Your Za- your Zayde Mendel.

33:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I remember actually my, uh, my, my second sister married-

33:42 Speaker 2 This is-- I don't know if we said his name. Sadiya Lieber, right?

33:44 Speaker 1 Sadiya Lieber, yeah. My second sister, uh, married Itche Pevner, which is a inikel from Nisnenov. So that chassan was in Taf Shin Lamed Ches, it was like-

33:53 Speaker 2 The, the mashpia in Altair?

33:54 Speaker 1 Yeah. N-the mashpia in Altair, Itche Pevner.

33:56 Speaker 2 Yeah.

33:56 Speaker 1 He's Nisnenov's inikel.

33:57 Speaker 2 I call Pitcher.

33:58 Speaker 1 His mother.

33:58 Speaker 2 Pit- we could call them, we call him Pitcher in Yiddish.

34:00 Speaker 1 Pitcher, yeah.

34:00 Speaker 2 Yeah.

34:01 Speaker 1 Pitcher, yeah?

34:01 Speaker 2 Yeah.

34:02 Speaker 1 So, so he, so he-

34:03 Speaker 2 He's your brother-in-law.

34:04 Speaker 1 He's my brother-in-law. So he-- But his chassan was in Taf Shin Lamed Ches, so there was, it was, like, really exciting 'cause he had, uh, my Zayde Sadiya and my Zayde Mendel, and you had Reb Nisen also.

34:14 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

34:14 Speaker 1 And I said, "Give him geschmack," you know. All we needed over there was Mendy Schechter, you know.

34:19 Speaker 2 The, the, the, th- these are three very different personalities.

34:22 Speaker 1 Oh, yes. Yeah. I mean, Nisen and Sadiya are kind of more similar, but my Zayde and Mendel is completely different personalities.

34:28 Speaker 2 Oh, so Sadiya was more, like, straight, Torahdik?

34:30 Speaker 1 He was more like a, uh, ernst yid and, uh, you know, he was, uh... Mendel was more Derech Shvi style, you know what I mean? Uh, look, also these people, Nisen and Sadiya, we find out nowadays, you know,

34:43 Speaker 2 Not so pashut.

34:44 Speaker 1 No, I'm saying they were, they were more devoted to the Rebbe than people ma-made it sound like, you know, uh-

34:49 Speaker 2 Right

34:49 Speaker 1 ... you know, between me and you, it's all from Shpocha, but the Schechters made it sound like, you know, okay, well these guys are, you know, not makushia. They had a different style of haskafos.

34:57 Speaker 2 Yeah.

34:57 Speaker 1 But it turns out to be that even in Meftzem and things like that, they were very involved. However, Zayde Sadiya, my Zayde Sadiya in, in Antwerpen, the style was more like, you know, like Sidur people.

35:07 Speaker 2 Right.

35:07 Speaker 1 I mean, he, he became a kind of-

35:09 Speaker 2 But it's a former king also

35:10 Speaker 1 ... Yeah, yeah. He, he was like a holy man over there. Like, that's also things that we didn't-- we also didn't kind of associate with it, that, you know, as when a person, when, when a chassan gets a little too holy, you know, like a Rebbe, you know what I mean? Something like that.

35:22 Speaker 2 Right.

35:22 Speaker 1 No, but he had a very powerful influence on, on the Olam HaD- unbelievable. I mean, people till today that know Sadiya Lieber, it's like, you know. But in that style.

35:30 Speaker 2 How did he support himself? As like a-

35:32 Speaker 1 A gish, I don't know. Maybe people gave him money. I don't know.

35:34 Speaker 2 Right.

35:34 Speaker 1 Yeah. I, uh, he was a, he was like a full-time, uh, Horenes mashpia. I don't know exactly.

35:39 Speaker 2 Right.

35:39 Speaker 1 Taka-- I don't know when he came there, what he officially was doing. I don't know. That I don't know.

35:44 Speaker 2 Well, it's a different world back then also.

35:45 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

35:45 Speaker 2 Things were different.

35:46 Speaker 1 Not sure exactly. In, in, in, in, in Morocco, he was dealing with, you know, uh, Talmud Torah, whatever, yeshivas, meistes, everything. Yiddishkeit, whatever.

35:54 Speaker 2 So your mother grew up in Morocco?

35:56 Speaker 1 No, which mother? My, my father, you're saying.

35:57 Speaker 2 Your father, sorry. Your father grew up-

35:58 Speaker 1 No, no, no. He did-- I don't even know if my father ever went to Morocco. My father already, when they came out, when he went to Morocco, my father was already a 22-year-old in-

36:05 Speaker 2 Ah

36:05 Speaker 1 ... in Brouwer.

36:06 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

36:06 Speaker 1 Maybe, maybe one of the, one of his daughters or, uh, um-

36:11 Speaker 2 So they sent the parents away from the kids to Morocco?

36:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, but the kids were not kids really. Maybe the-

36:15 Speaker 2 Yeah

36:16 Speaker 1 ... the youngest daughter, Zerkin, Simcha Zerkin's wife was, uh, maybe. I'm not sure exactly. But I do-- I wanna tell you something very interesting about the schlichas in Morocco. I just, I just came across this letter not long ago. And in a way, in a way, it's a kind of, uh, an Igros Kodesh. The letter's printed, but, um, but missing a few parts. And why they're missing a few parts? 'Cause they're very sharp. So in a way, you know, it's a kind of a not a pleasant thing for especially a grandson to, to publicize, but I think it's so powerful just to teach us, you know, what means schlichas. What means schlichas? The, the, the devotion that the Rebbe expected. Not because the Rebbe is a hard boss. It's all about m-the, the, the medavtan. The Rebbe in, in, in the later years, when the Rebbe started to faratsta, like Taf Shin Ches, when the schlichim were mamesh, you know, the young schlichim, like, uh-

37:06 Speaker 2 Belz shluchim

37:06 Speaker 1 ... Belz shluchim and, and, uh-

37:08 Speaker 2 Chesed L'Aharon

37:09 Speaker 1 The Rebbe, the Rebbe shared a, a story important because, because there were some that didn't immediately say yes. So the Rebbe then spoke at the This is, this is the Rebbe, not the Frierdiker Rebbe. The Rebbe. The Rebbe- Yeah, yeah ... in Morocco saying- The Rebbe- ... that you left, that you left Morocco ... the Rebbe, the Rebbe is telling him, "You left Morocco for four months." Right. And then there was other-- But, and then Rebbe then says, "Look, I, I, I, I don't... Shlichus doesn't work properly if, if, if, if you do it by force. You just have to let me know if you want." It's a sharp letter. It's a very sharp letter. But what teaches us is that, that shlichus needed absolute devotion. No monkey business, you know what I mean? Yeah. And I'm talking about Zaidy Satmar was a was a You know, in a way, just like I said, the Rebbe is always caring about everyone and watching everyone, but not always you see it begotlu. You know what I mean? Like I told you a story, I'm gonna say that I have an experience that, that I... Unbelievable. I was-- I, uh, when I was in, I, before, when I came from Eretz Yisrael, in Eretz Yisrael, uh, yeshiva is younger. Used to be, at least.

43:30 Speaker 2 Right.

43:30 Speaker 1 So when I went into Lud, which is kind of, uh, what you call Beth Midrash, I was, um, I was, uh, 12. Basically... Well, I didn't actually have my bar mitzvah in Eretz Yisrael. I had it in England back at home, but my class went in Elul Tof Shin Lamed class. I was, like, uh, 12. I was in the younger ones. So when I came back to, when I came to Lud, I was just bar mitzvah. Um, so, um... Oh, and then when I finished Lud, I couldn't go straight to Morristown 'cause I was too young. So I went to Ocean Parkway. I stayed, like, an extra year 'cause I had to catch up the age, so to say. I was in Ocean Parkway in, uh, in Lubavitch Yeshiva, Ocean Parkway for a year.

44:08 Speaker 2 Around the, around the corner from here, almost.

44:10 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

44:11 Speaker 2 Mm.

44:11 Speaker 1 Then I had nothing to do with Flappers, but, you know.

44:13 Speaker 2 I understand.

44:13 Speaker 1 So I, I was there for a year. Uh, you know, that's when I joined my class, and then I went to Morristown. Um, and, uh, in Ocean Parkway, as a young bachur, we decided to make a hora tzimtzumim. So, uh, I got an interesting answer from the Rebbe then. It's, from the answer was kind of understood. The Rebbe was concerned about that there shouldn't be no, no doubles, meaning to say, those days in, in Tof Shin Mem Alef, uh, there was-- 770 wasn't really giving out horas, but Morristown and other telera. So, so they're kind of-- And Morristown's really New York. It's like in the same... So a lot of things double over, and the Rebbe doesn't like, you know. The Rebbe likes also shloken, two things together kind of. It shouldn't be, uh, same question asked in the same-

44:58 Speaker 2 Right.

44:59 Speaker 1 And then we suddenly show up, and we think that we're giving a nachas ruach, which we probably did, but made a new kayvitz in Ocean Parkway. So the Rebbe said, "Shulaitian nach palas." There shouldn't be doubles. I, I took it as, you know, the Rebbe says, "You know what? You opened it." Okay. The Rebbe's never gonna tell us to close it, but there was a kind of no point. That's the way I understood it. Whatever, but that's irrelevant at this point. When I come to Morristown, Meidel Tsvibel, alav ha-shalom, asked me to... That time he needed someone to take care of horas, so I took care of horas. He knew that I took care of in Ocean Parkway. Together, I did it then together with a guy, Yossi Alperovitch, uh, aden bay sodak. I think he was involved in Gesher Eychok. Whatever.

45:34 Speaker 2 He lives in England today.

45:35 Speaker 1 I don't know if he even remembers it, yeah. Could be if somebody remembers it, but we did horas together. We were kids, you know. I came to Morristown, so Meidel asked me to take care of horas. I took it, uh, so I agreed, and I was a, a, I was a man, one-man band at that point. Sometimes you have two guys. I was one. It took a year, and, um, mamesh a year went by, and I was falling under pressure, financial pressure.

45:58 Speaker 2 Oh, you had to raise the money for it?

45:59 Speaker 1 Raise money, hag doshes. You know, yeshiva didn't provide. I don't know. Whatever.

46:04 Speaker 2 You had to print it, you had to print it.

46:05 Speaker 1 I had to print it. Those days were not, uh... You know, I used to go to Dandy Print, Dandy Printing on, on Clappers Avenue or Chambers, uh, in Manhattan.

46:12 Speaker 2 I thought you were in M- Morristown. You said you come-

46:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, but I used to... Oh, so, so... But it's all from New York. Morristown is just the location of the yeshiva. The horas were produced by Morristown, but it was a production that was given out in 770. That's where-

46:23 Speaker 2 Oh.

46:23 Speaker 1 -it was the main place.

46:24 Speaker 2 So you came to 770 to print.

46:25 Speaker 1 Yeah.

46:25 Speaker 2 You came to do all the printing.

46:26 Speaker 1 That's, that's one of the reasons I actually never spent the Shabbats in Morristown. Even though those years there was a lot of farbrengens, but because they were, they were not mamesh every week. They don't-- Farbrengens every week started only after the Rebbe's son passed away, but there were... In the Mem Alef, the Rebbe started to do a lot of farbrengens. So yeshiva wants to crack down and said, "No, there's weeks... If we don't know for sure there's a farbrengen," which usually they would know before Shabbats, usually. But I ended up never, uh, staying. Like, I had this excuse, horas and this. I never stayed in Morristown. For three years, I never was Shabbats in Morristown. So I used to come to New York, and, and I used to do it the last minute. That's my nature, whatever, and I used to type, uh... Those days there were no, uh, laptops, but I used to have a Hermes typewriter-

47:05 Speaker 2 Right.

47:05 Speaker 1 -which is a portable. I used to type it in the car or something, yeah. And then the competition with the other telera, and, and, and befrat that I was the one kind of chasing Zev Kadana to, to make sure that there shouldn't be doubles 'cause I had a f- feeling of the acharas that I got an answer. The bottom line is, to make a long story short, the pressure was weighing on me. Now, the Rebbe was moed at any, like everything, every good thing, in the Yanai Matira, in a variety of ways. But Morristown got different... I mean, horas from there, from all places, got different answers, and it's kavod v'tach, whatever. Then the Rebbe would also talk about almost every farbrengen, almost. Uh, those years, I don't know exactly. Whatever. But, uh, many farbrengens the Rebbe would... There was like a say that the Rebbe would talk about the Rashi and the Ra- and Rambam wasn't then yet. But Rashi and the Kotzker Rebbe Yitzchak and Pirkei Avos in the summer. And once in a while, the Rebbe would also say, "Mit geshiben in di, eynik in di kleftzim," once in a telera, once this. And then there was also, there was also, uh, another level of idud where the Rebbe was once in a while magiya the sicha that he spoke on the horas. But here, suddenly, something unprecedented. I'm laying in my bedroom, my office bedroom, in the middle of the day, passes, uh, toildes, reitza. Like, mamesh a year after I

48:23 Speaker 1 took over horas, and I'm depressed deeply. And suddenly someone knocks on my door, and he says, "Label Groner's on the phone for you," in the office. There was no phones, you know.

48:32 Speaker 2 In Morristown?

48:32 Speaker 1 Yeah. He-- No one had phones, you know, uh-

48:35 Speaker 2 Morristown.

48:35 Speaker 1 In the office. Label Groner on the phone, like, in pitch in Morristown. Like, what? I didn't write to the Rebbe anything. I come running to the... I mean, you can imagine. Just out of nowhere. The Rebbe just gave out the horas 'cause we always used to bring two copies to all the maskiras. Rebbe used to always walk into the... A lot of times it happened in the bachur, we used to look which one he's holding. The Rebbe would have him sit there. It gave a lot of idud. But the Rebbe just gave it out middle of a Tuesday, and he wrote, he wrote on, on the horas. Unprecedented. And that's something, you know, um, the maskiras-

49:10 Speaker 2 What did he write?

49:11 Speaker 1 Horas on the horas.

49:13 Speaker 2 He wrote horas on the horas.

49:13 Speaker 1 Rebbe comes, not that he spoke on Shabbos. He, the Rebbe's writing horas on... That was the first time it ever happened.

49:18 Speaker 2 On the horas of the Morristown Kuntes.

49:20 Speaker 1 Of the Morristown Kuntes. And, and, uh, and, um, it, it, those days, so Label Groner says, "Come quickly to New York." For Label, it was also a shock. He says, "Come quickly to New York and take it. You have to, you know, you have to work on it." It's not, you know. So, uh, uh, we used to, um, uh, uh, also Martin Maskiras never gave out kisve yad answers. Answers were always, you know, dictated over the phone or written-

49:43 Speaker 2 Right.

49:43 Speaker 1 -on my label. That was the policy, whatever it was. But here it's like a sicha, like the Rebbe's magiya sicha. Today, you can't copy that 'cause it, the Rebbe's, you know-

49:52 Speaker 2 Right, yeah.

49:52 Speaker 1 -linking things. I come to New York, a whole new world. I don't know how to eat it. I don't know how to read it. It's like a whole, you know, the Rebbe's... So I went to Yel Tahan and Rabbi Feldman, and they helped me out, and they went and, and we prepared it for the next week. Those days they didn't print kisve yad. Kisve yad only came out years later. It's, uh, after Yemot Ha'moshiach it's, it became as a, it became as a... I, I call it like a Torah Chadasha 'cause, because, because now you see what's behind all the , whatever. But those days to prepare that they went to the Rebbe, the Rebbe wrote more. And I'm just .

50:22 Speaker 2 So these are, these are horas on horas that people wrote?

50:24 Speaker 1 Yeah. I'll give you an example, but the, we can talk over here whole night. But, uh, I, I'll give you an example. Shmuel Pesach Bagimilsky, he, he's the type of person that used to write-- A lot of people were, like, uh, kind of annoyed with this type of horas. He used to write tons of things that, that we always used to look for material. You know, you want the to have more and more pages. It's like a normal thing. He would-- He can provide you material, , you know, like from today. He, he used to write a lot of stuff and-

50:53 Speaker 2 And so all the horas were on the sifra printed the week before?

50:57 Speaker 1 Not-- There can be different things. Horas, just like today, horas, it's not different.

51:00 Speaker 2 Today, it's about all different sugyas. Then also-

51:02 Speaker 1 Right. Then also now it's became pupulim also. The Rebbe actually even wrote once that it shouldn't be so long things because there's, there's a difference between horas and a pupulim.

51:11 Speaker 2 Right.

51:12 Speaker 1 But, um, uh, the horas you'd be-- would be on the or on the that the Rebbe spoke Shabbos.

51:18 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

51:18 Speaker 1 And sometimes also you would have halacha, minhag. There would be different things, but not such long things. Shmuel Pesach Bagimilsky had a-- Before my season, he had a whole with Nisan Manguel about God and Lord and the translation. But he was an interesting guy. He actually ended up-- 'Cause a lot of his things were not accepted 'cause it was-

51:40 Speaker 2 Too much

51:40 Speaker 1 ... controversial or too much or too I don't know what. He ended up giving up his own kuntres called Shaales Perushim B'Igurim. Smart guy. Shaales Perushim B'Igurim is Rosh Yeshiva Shmuel Pesach Bagimilsky. But he-- I feel that he had a zechus with all the toughness that people had on him and didn't like. And even this hora that the Rebbe commented about was his hora, one of them. The Rebbe wrote about two, two horas, I think. One-- His hora, the Rebbe commented about it. I think it's a big zechus that he had that, that the Rebbe related.

52:08 Speaker 2 And so Reb Yisroel and Dovid Feldman, they-

52:10 Speaker 1 They helped me-

52:10 Speaker 2 ... incorporated that into the old sifra or they-

52:12 Speaker 1 No, no, no, it's not. Okay, there's a few things. Whatever. It's a whole discussion of its own, but, uh, we, we, we-- No. So I'll, I'll tell you about this one particular hora, which is a very typical for Bagimilsky to write. The Rebbe in, in, in, uh-- That's one of the reasons why I'm also very into not talking in middle of davening besides my father's education that he gave me. There's a Rebbe writes about not talking in middle of davening, very sharp. And then he writes that , not to talk anything from the beginning till Kaddish Basra, Shacharis, uh, uh, uh, Arvis uMincha v'Chulu. That's what it says in the printed Tanya. So, so the Rebbe in Ha'aros HaTshuvah makes a kind of a correction because what's Shacharis, Arvis, Mincha? Either it's Arvis, Shacharis, Mincha. Ma'ariv, you know, you go the order from the night, or Shacharis, Mincha, Arvis. What's Shacharis, Arvis, Mincha? So the Rebbe changes it around, and then the Rebbe removes the v'Chulu because what's the v'Chulu? So this is where Bagimilsky used to dig everywhere. So who would even think of, you know, . So he dug, and he came up with a way to re-- to reverse the Rebbe's tikun. You know, he's explaining why-- In it's not all written down today. It's all copies. People copied, so there can be different mistakes. So he's suggesting how it's not a mistake. So the Rebbe dismissed his, his, his correction. So the Rebbe dismissed what he was saying. However, the Rebbe

53:43 Speaker 1 did retract his correction. He was trying to retract the correction by explaining why it's written like that. The Rebbe dismissed it, and the Rebbe explained why he swore it doesn't make sense. And then the Rebbe wrote, that's the lotion, and he wrote a whole explanation of why Tache can be Sha- the way, uh, the way he originally written Tanya.

54:05 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

54:05 Speaker 1 The Rebbe, Rebbe explains that Shacharis and Ma'ariv have Kirsh in it, and Mincha doesn't have. It's like saying Shacharis and Arvis are Phil of Mincha. That-- those four lines are printed on every single Tanya from Taf Shin Mem Gimel on. They went into the Tanyas 'cause the Rebbe wrote-- You look in the back, in on the bottom of page-

54:23 Speaker 2 Right

54:24 Speaker 1 ... page Resh, it says that . So that was relatively simple. But then there's other things that, that, that, uh-- Well, take, for example, a few weeks later, the Rebbe did it again. A few week-- One-- It became like a kind of a routine. In the span of two years that I was in Oros town, it was like ten times. So, uh-

54:41 Speaker 2 The Rebbe would be-

54:42 Speaker 1 The Rebbe would write on the horas. Happened a, a bunch of times. And, uh-

54:47 Speaker 2 But what, what was Reb Yisroel and Dovid Feldman's involvement?

54:49 Speaker 1 So they helped me understand it and how to write it.

54:51 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

54:52 Speaker 1 Set it up, you know, because c-- you have to write, the Rebbe wrote this.

54:57 Speaker 2 I see. There's a background here.

54:57 Speaker 1 I needed, I needed to help me-

55:00 Speaker 2 Right

55:00 Speaker 1 ... you know, to help me, uh, present it and print it in the following week, you know, what the Rebbe's answer was. And, and, um, uh, now, for example, uh, a few weeks later, there was another hora from, uh, Bilsofsky. I think he's not around anymore. From, from, uh, from, uh, Australia. He also just lost, unfortunately, a granddaughter, twenty-three years old.

55:24 Speaker 2 Yeah.

55:25 Speaker 1 I think so. So he, he, he-- The Rebbe said that the Radatz got Smicha from the Tzemach Tzedek. So he commented, he made a hora. That's, that's what horas is. The hora that the Radatz, according to the history, was a child in the time of the Tzemach Tzedek. So the Rebbe corrected. The Rebbe made the correction in the, in the horas, and the Rebbe wrote, Tzemach Tzedek. Sorry, Smicha, Kibbal Smicha. It said-- It, it-- The quote said, "Kibbal Smicha from Tzemach Tzedek," and he asked on it. So between the word Smicha and Tzemach Tzedek, the Rebbe wrote an insert, and the Rebbe wrote, "Kibbal Smicha So that Maad Mo Maharaash, so when they printed the, the Hanukah, the, in the book, they corrected it in the book.

56:14 Speaker 2 I see.

56:15 Speaker 1 Whatever. So this is something that-- and I've also wanna, what I wanna say is that I don't know what the Rebbe's . What I can say is that the subject that the Rebbe commented on didn't seem to be can't wait from Tuesday to Shabbats. The Rebbe had a, the Rebbe speak Shabbats about these things, right? So the, what was it, was something over there that the Rebbe couldn't wait. It doesn't make sense. The only sense that it makes is that the Rebbe's thinking about me. And he says, "I'm gonna help Levi Yaron, I'm gonna pick him up." And he did. He took me out of a pit, and he threw me up to the highest roof. I'm, I'm, I'm, I don't want anyone to help me. I, I di-didn't want any partners anymore 'cause I was getting, I, I was have to share the . So a year later, I went to my brother's bar mitzvah in London. I got stuck a little bit over there. So Berel Lazar, uh, kind of came in, and he had the he got. So but, uh, then later we had to kind of share, so 'cause he-- everybody stayed inside. But I'm saying for the first period of time, so it took, it took... Even though I don't know, you know, different people have different things like that, but I, I feel that this is an experience that even if you don't have it the Rebbe's thinking about everyone. Like, one of my diff-- I had this close.

57:28 Speaker 1 The Rebbe was, you know, showed it to me but there's no other explanation. It's like the Rebbe's sitting on Tuesday afternoon in his room thinking about me, and he says, "Okay, I'll take care of him."

57:37 Speaker 2 How, how did the-- I know you have to go soon.

57:39 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

57:39 Speaker 2 How did, how did the, how did the bachurim then, uh, you could talk about yourself specifically, what was it like to come to seven seventy in the, in, in that the mems? And, you know, you hear stories from your zeides and so on, the you know, sharp letter. Like, uh, like, you know, there's this kind of relationship, and you come in the mems, and you're just one of a thousand bachurim or whatever, and you're, you know, you're, you're squeezing out of Fabringen. There's no, there isn't that personal interaction. Is it-- Was it something hard to-

58:12 Speaker 1 Well, you're f-- you're growing up with it. You don't feel these things. I mean, what are you saying? That, that we did, that we didn't get that personal attention?

58:18 Speaker 2 Yeah.

58:19 Speaker 1 That's the way we grew up. So what's the, I mean...

58:22 Speaker 2 You didn't see it as a thing.

58:23 Speaker 1 It, it's not, it wasn't something that you stopped to think about. You know what I mean? I mean, you know, in those, in the, in the mems that you're talking about, there was a major change with the Yechidas. You know-

58:33 Speaker 2 Right.

58:33 Speaker 1 The Yechidas, um, I mean, when I, when I, when we were, were bachurim, some section in any case didn't have Yechidas already from the late lameds.

58:39 Speaker 2 Right.

58:40 Speaker 1 The b-- the Gemara letters stopped already. But it's something that you grew along with it. You know what I mean? It's not something that-

58:46 Speaker 2 Yeah.

58:46 Speaker 1 -you stop to think about.

58:47 Speaker 2 Right.

58:48 Speaker 1 And by the way, since you're mentioning about the personal, not, you know, like I said, when things are not it doesn't mean it's not there. You know, there's a very interesting-

58:56 Speaker 2 I'm not, I'm not... I wasn't trying to make that argument.

58:58 Speaker 1 No, I'm saying, but there's a very interesting answer, which is just another oppor-opportunity to say it. But this yutz, um, uh, I think, I think I, I think I saw who it was. Oh, I think it was Reuven Dunin, I think, whatever. That he wrote to the Rebbe, I think, in Mendala, I think. Mendala. Which that was like a year after the Yechidas had kind of, uh, developed into a Yechidas chassidus. I think Reuven Dunin asked the Rebbe, "Could I have Yechidas ?"

59:24 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

59:26 Speaker 1 So, so the Rebbe responded back and wrote that, that it was right after Shavuos, uh, Shavuos the, the Rebbe did Yechidas chassidus seven times a year, I think. So Yitzivan, that year was Yitzivan. So the Rebbe writes, "You want Yechidas ?" The Rebbe says, "No, I always thought it was but I think lately I saw a copy. I think it's Basically, just to give it in the mashal, my mashal that I thought of is, first of all, the Rebbe's telling you like this. Number one, the fact that the water was once in a clear cup and I poured it now into a, a styrofoam cup or a paper cup, so the difference is that you don't see the water, right? But there's no difference in the water, right?

1:00:18 Speaker 2 Right.

1:00:20 Speaker 1 You want Yechidas ? We had it. Just Yechidas in the Rebbe's room, you saw it. You saw the relationship. You saw the connection. And now Yechidas chassidus, you don't see it so much like you saw it in the Yechidas in the Rebbe's room. Then the Rebbe's telling you another secret. He says, "No, no, no, it's not the same. When I poured it from the clear cup to the styrofoam cup, it turned into seltzer." The Rebbe, and, and, and, uh, the, the hesber also is that because we have more emunah, because you need more emunah. You know, when you're in the Rebbe's room, and you ask the Rebbe, and the Rebbe responds, "Alef, bet, gimel, daled, hey." Where you're standing by dallas, which is a kind of a substitute to Yechidas, and, and Rebbe gives you a push, and you don't know if the Rebbe heard you or didn't hear you, and then you have to believe that it was the same, well, Yechidas chassidus, the Rebbe's saying a sicha and, and, uh, or by a farbrengen, quote-unquote, was also a type of a Yechidas. And then, um, and then, uh, uh, you walk by and you get your dollar, you give the Rebbe the pound, it's the same. Says, "Yeah, yeah. If you, if you believe me, it's the same, and it's even more than the same. It's more." So because of that emunah, that, that draws more bracha. That's the hesber, because it's more emunah. We went up a level. You know what I

1:01:29 Speaker 1 mean? So, uh, uh, I actually, uh, I just met Heshy Kessler yesterday, my, married to my second cousin just so that. So he, I, I, he maybe once told me, but I forgot. He reminded me that my oldest son and his, one of his sons were born the same day. Come give a ladder. So I reminded him, and he re-he remembered that that day was a Yechidas . And as soon as I came from-

1:01:49 Speaker 2 You're talking about the Machnes Israel.

1:01:51 Speaker 1 Machnes Israel, yeah. And as soon as I came from the hospital, I went to seven seventy, and I walked into the Esos Nashem. That's where the bachurim used to be, by the sicha. And I, I, I walk in, and I, I hear the Rebbe talk about Uh, uh, so you surround him with, with shirim alios and, uh, pesukim. I'm saying there was different ways of communi-

1:02:10 Speaker 2 Right. This was during the-- the Rebbe had a to put a shirimalis in every-

1:02:14 Speaker 1 It was after. It wasn't-

1:02:15 Speaker 2 After.

1:02:15 Speaker 1 It was years later. I mean, this is-- the Rebbe spoke about that, I think, in Mandala. This is... The Rebbe would mention it once in a while.

1:02:20 Speaker 2 Right.

1:02:21 Speaker 1 But I'm just saying it's an ex-- That everyone has a lot of different experiences where the Rebbe communicated with them by fabringen. Sometimes it, it, it would be out of the blue, a subject or something, and on-only the person would know. Sometimes it can be part of a, a sikha. Whatever. I'm just saying-

1:02:37 Speaker 2 How, how, how do you know when it's, when it's actually a-an answer and not y-ih-- the, you know, the thing that you wanted to hear, so you, "I saw this," so-

1:02:46 Speaker 1 No, no. . That alone, if you wanna hear something and you hear something, that, that's what the Rebbe meant.

1:02:52 Speaker 2 Well, maybe it's what-- Maybe you're making... Maybe you're, maybe it's-

1:02:54 Speaker 1 No, it depends-

1:02:55 Speaker 2 You're looking for, you're looking for a convenient answer-

1:02:57 Speaker 1 Okay, yes

1:02:57 Speaker 2 ... and you find it, you know.

1:02:58 Speaker 1 And so we're not talking, you know... Uh, uh, just like today also, when people communicate through Yiddish, I always say this a hundred percent. I, I myself interpret and assist other people, but I myself won't assist myself. I-If the Rebbe's answer's about learning more, giving more tzedakah, you don't have to ask anyone. But if it's about something else, like, you know, a real question, then you, then you can be, uh, you're negia bedava. You have to always ask someone else. The same thing over here. Depends what kind of answer you are looking for. If you're looking for a q- something that you are biased about, then you won't be able to. You can't walk away. In any event, when the Rebbe gave you an answer bechsav, you also needed someone to-

1:03:37 Speaker 2 Obviously

1:03:37 Speaker 1 ... explain it to you and help you. So, koshke, again, if you s-by fabringen, you're getting, you're getting-- you're seeking, uh, something, the Rebbe to give you a, a bracha or so-something like that. But if it's a question, "Should I do this or should I do that?" And you're negia bedava, then for sure you're gonna have to take that info that you understood and ask a mashpia. There's no question about it. The Rebbe's answers don't, don't, uh, contradict the Rebbe's general hirah of, of, of consulting with a seviv harav or mashpia. No question about it. You can't take a halacha answer from the Rebbe because you understood it. Halacha has to go to a rav. The Rebbe's answer's only a-

1:04:14 Speaker 2 Right

1:04:14 Speaker 1 ... uh, you know, the rav has to know or the mashpia has to know what you-- what answer the Rebbe gave you, whether it was bechsav, like, like Garamo, when it was more begoli, koshe keren, now that it's not so begoli. You understand? Well, that's a, that's a topic on its own, but this isn't-

1:04:30 Speaker 2 How, how, how long did it take you to, to, to work through this? I mean, you spoke, um, you s- you mentioned earlier the birth of your son the day after Gimel Tammuz.

1:04:38 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:04:39 Speaker 2 And, uh, clearly, things were not... You, you, you-- I'm sure you weren't able to articulate it then the way you're articulating it now.

1:04:46 Speaker 1 Hundred percent. I mean-

1:04:47 Speaker 2 How, how did you work through this?

1:04:49 Speaker 1 Actually, actually, I always, I always complain about the people that knew exactly what to do a day after. It bothers me.

1:04:54 Speaker 2 It bothered you.

1:04:54 Speaker 1 That they knew what to do exactly.

1:04:56 Speaker 2 You didn't think you knew what to do?

1:04:58 Speaker 1 No. No, not at all. I knew I-- There were certain yone and wundern that I had that I believed the whole time.

1:05:02 Speaker 2 Right.

1:05:03 Speaker 1 You know, um, whatever. I'm not gonna get into the subject now-

1:05:05 Speaker 2 Right

1:05:05 Speaker 1 ... but, you know.

1:05:06 Speaker 2 Right.

1:05:06 Speaker 1 But, uh, but, uh, how do you eat it and how do you share it with others? No, I didn't know exactly, you know, if-

1:05:13 Speaker 2 Even to share it with yourself, you didn't know.

1:05:15 Speaker 1 Depends what you're talking about. I'm just saying, t-yeah, things took time. I mean, uh, you know, till, till I heard from others and I understood it and I digested it, bachulu.

1:05:27 Speaker 2 Right.

1:05:28 Speaker 1 Not, not, not about my emunah and the Rebbe's besuras hagolah. That I had no doubt. Uh, but till today, you, you have to know how to convey it to other people, bachulu, bachulu. But, uh, the, the-

1:05:39 Speaker 2 No, we're talking here more about the-

1:05:41 Speaker 1 The communi-

1:05:41 Speaker 2 ... the fact that you feel like you get an answer-

1:05:44 Speaker 1 Oh

1:05:44 Speaker 2 ... or how to process this kind of thing.

1:05:45 Speaker 1 Well, you have, you have, you have to remember that even before Gimel Tammuz, there was a tekufah that was also a different level.

1:05:50 Speaker 2 I understand.

1:05:50 Speaker 1 There, there was answers. There were ans-- I remember myself, uh, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I remember in Bais Yisroel when there was, when the Rebbe was in tekufah, that there was not even head, no even nodding with the head.

1:06:02 Speaker 2 You're saying when he was in the hospital?

1:06:03 Speaker 1 After the second chofetz chaim nada.

1:06:04 Speaker 2 In the hospital?

1:06:05 Speaker 1 Yeah. So there was even no nodding with the head. So then there became a whole question of chasidim and kallahs and you how to... I, I, I remember then there was-

1:06:12 Speaker 2 You're saying how do people get an answer-

1:06:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I, I, I, I don't honestly, I don't remember exactly what it was, but I remember there was a discussion and an issue, and I remember just popping up and s- and speaking like, you know, to the crowd that was then in the, whatever it was. It was like a hall where everyone was davening. I don't remember what I said. I just remember it was a discussion. It was a discussion.

1:06:32 Speaker 2 Um, you don't remember what you said?

1:06:34 Speaker 1 I, I don't remember exactly. Uh, my, my, my point was obviously that, that things have... I, maybe there was a svirah by certain like, you know, uh, shpitz chevre that maybe-

1:06:44 Speaker 2 You shouldn't get married?

1:06:44 Speaker 1 ... you know, I don't remember, get married, some-something like that. I, I think so, and I don't remember what I was saying, but it was like one of chiyuv, you know what I mean?

1:06:52 Speaker 2 Well, but so what was your, what's your gang? Uh, that's interesting. That's a interesting question.

1:06:56 Speaker 1 Look, the gang, the gang is like the Rebbe said even... Look, look-

1:06:58 Speaker 2 Why are you so klar that... No, but I'm asking you. I'm teasing it out. Why are you so klar that people should... If people were always waiting for the Rebbe to give an answer to be, to get married, and here the Rebbe is still, still with us, but he can't give an answer, so people have a svirah not to get married. Why are you so klar that, that they should?

1:07:13 Speaker 1 Well, well, first of all, I th-I, you know, I, again, I can't say that this is what I said then.

1:07:18 Speaker 2 No, I, I know that, but I'm asking-

1:07:19 Speaker 1 I don't, I don't know. I think it was on Shabbos, so it couldn't be recorded. But I, I would say now, I would say that, that, that, that b'klal, this, the, the Rebbe... First of all, the Rebbe gave hirer as klalios ahead of chofetz chaim nada, b'klal.

1:07:33 Speaker 2 Right.

1:07:33 Speaker 1 Already in mem bet and mem zayin, which those hirer as klalios was a kind of maybe preparing for this tekufah. And, and b'klal, the Rebbe, not because Chas ve'Shalom the Rebbe had no time for everyone. That doesn't make sense. The, these things are... It's all about Avodah beKechazai. This whole, you can't bring it up the whole night. It's all, it's, it's actually the sikha of this week in alef and next week is very much rimozim ahead of, of those days no one would think, but it's a kind of ahead of Gimel Tammuz. When the Rebbe's talking about, uh, bales chessed, that you don't need any more the machanuch, the one that's lighting the menorah. You have to be lit on your own. Avodah beKechazai is really the title for this era that we are in from Gimel Tammuz till today, which will be over. But- It's all about . The Rebbe prepared, and the Rebbe said that he shouldn't have to be the one to give the answer. Now, it's not chas veshalom the Rebbe's not giving the answer. The, the Rebbe is generating his bracha through a tsena. As you know, the Rebbe was always-- did everything in a very subtle, simple way. So you think you're gonna take a yiddin maven because it makes sense. Well, you're gonna go, you're gonna go take a yidd, and you're gonna go to a maven, right?

1:08:38 Speaker 2 Right. Right.

1:08:38 Speaker 1 A roif yiddin. So what's the ufto? What's the Rebbe ufgetan? You know what the Rebbe ufgetan? That when you go take a yiddin maven or to a roif yiddin or shtey roifim mummchim, because the Rebbe gehatzen, the Rebbe heyst dir. And I wanna tell you something. I have an experience where I like to say the story only because I want people, memeni yir'ah v'chein yasou, where I had a certain amount of money that I got on unfortunate circumstances, and, uh, but it was a certain amount of money from an insurance, from my acc- from my own accident that I had. And a part of that money I invested based on the advice of a real yiddin and a maven, and that maven himself invested together with me. And we did very well in the beginning. Then we cycled it a second time, and we lost our pants. And I'm very calm about it. You know why? 'Cause I feel that the Rebbe told me to do it. The yiddin maven is, is the Rebbe. When I come to the yiddin maven 'cause the Rebbe gehatzen, he's no more, he's no more, he's Yankel Berel. He's, he's the Rebbe. If I go to him als- auf iseichel, then he's a yiddin maven, and it's different. So, so the Rebbe ge-- the Rebbe's channeling his brachos through... Like, the Rebbe says, "Oy yoseh miky vshoteh." He can sit and talk a sicha, and he's directly talking to you, but you need a higher level of emunah. So

1:09:54 Speaker 1 when we came to the kufah that you don't, you're stuck, and you know, kind of don't have, uh, 'cause the-- those days, the Rebbe was still answering. Even after the Rebbe said he's not gonna answer, but he, he, he still, he still... Chossid kales was still getting answers, right?

1:10:09 Speaker 2 Right.

1:10:09 Speaker 1 Till Chof Zayin Adar, and after Chof Zayin Adar. So, okay, but now there's, now there's a kufah that the Rebbe's not nodding his head, so then you go ahead. Like the Rebbe said to us, "Until the Rebbe doesn't tell you no, then you go ahead." Also now, when a person asks the Rebbe something, and I, I, like many other people, use the Rebbe's Igres Kodesh. I, I don't like when the people say I ask the Igres. Ask the Rebbe. And one of the channels, one of them. So other people go to the Ohel, but this is a channel. So the, the Rebbe, the Rebbe, uh, a lot of people do both because, 'cause you don't-- Over there, you just can mispallel, but you don't have a way-- You're not making a keni for the Rebbe to answer you. The Rebbe, by the way, I heard by the way about a Chossid kale, this is interesting, that I went to the Ohel. Okay, say to him, "How do you know yes or no?" On the way back, they had an argument, and they broke up. The Rebbe has his ways, you know? It doesn't, it doesn't happen frequently, but it could. I'm just saying, efed bifinim derech, that's the lashon the Rebbe said about the Friediker Rebbe. And a lot of information, by the way, that the Rebbe said in Tuchin Yoch was all said ahead of time.

1:11:10 Speaker 2 Right.

1:11:10 Speaker 1 It's all, it's all mehurus. Whatever. So I'm saying, so the Rebbe-- You say till the Rebbe would say no to you, he'll find a way to say no to you. The Bible goes digein veiter and do it the way the Rebbe wants. So I'm saying even now, when a person writes into the, to, to the Rebbe, not always is there... I have a few stories that can blow mi- blow your mind. Shocking, clear stories. Mamash. Like, you know, you have, like you, like you have what's called on the, on the scale of, of, uh, earthquake. So you have the, um-

1:11:38 Speaker 2 The Rich- the Richter scale.

1:11:39 Speaker 1 Yeah. So, so, so in Igres Kodesh, sometimes it just, like word for word. I, I, I know a story of a shidduch in my family that the whole letter, no rumozim, the whole entire letter, except the date, was, was exactly... Whatever. It's a story with a, with-- It's a cake with a cream, with a cherry. It is a meyerdiker story, but ain't kinda mocking.

1:11:58 Speaker 2 I want-

1:11:59 Speaker 1 Not always, but, but, but sometimes a person writes in, and there's no clear answer. The Rebbe chooses. So what's the rule? The rule is very obvious. I mean, and no one made up rules over here, but this is a pisechel, a p... That the rule is that you, you, you, you do whatever the yiddin maven told you. I don't, I don't-- I, I disagree that people write to the Rebbe on questions that are really, "Should I go to this yeshiva, that yeshiva?" You have to first consult with the right people, the mashpia, the doctor, whatever it is. And then when you write in, if there's a clear answer against what they, that person told you, you have to go back to that mashpia and show it to that mashpia, and that mashpia has to understand that it's contradicting. You understand? You have to go back to the roifé. Let's say I have a story with a guy in one of my chevre that had a, a suggestion from the doctor to make a certain surgery. There wasn't an emergency. And, and he got an answer that the Rebbe writes to someone about a different surgery, about, uh, kidneys, whatever, but it was about surgery. And the Rebbe says, "Lo yikare d'ai," and there's other ways to do it. So, so I told him, "You have to-- Obviously, you can't contradict a doctor. If a doctor said it was an emergency, then you'd have to look for a different doctor to find support for this." And

1:13:09 Speaker 1 sometimes they, the, the answers have to go together with the Rebbe's general heroes. They cannot go against.

1:13:15 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

1:13:16 Speaker 1 So-

1:13:17 Speaker 2 I saw that, so I wanted-- I, I, I s-saw that on your WhatsApp status you have-- your, your WhatsApp profile, you have the sichas of Num Dehys.

1:13:26 Speaker 1 Num Dehys.

1:13:26 Speaker 2 Um, you've mentioned it also a few times. Uh, just to wrap things up a little bit, y-can you describe firstly how did you understand those sichas in those days? Did you understand that there was a different kind of sicha? Did you understand that something else was going on here?

1:13:42 Speaker 1 Well, well, first of all, it was definitely exciting.

1:13:43 Speaker 2 Just push, push, push it back a little bit. Yeah.

1:13:47 Speaker 1 The shite, the shite here was definitely exciting. I mean, uh, you know, it's, it's, you know, now always when you look, you have more time and later, and now that we don't have really, we're in a kind of an eiretz yefah oyeph. So you, you look at these things, it excites me even more.

1:14:02 Speaker 2 Really?

1:14:02 Speaker 1 The, the beshite. Oh, yeah. I see-- H-honestly, in some of these sichas, I mean, you should try it out, but some of these sichas, every time I read it, I've read them, you know, I, I can't say I studied them good enough yet, unfortunately. It was-- But every time I read these sichas, it blows my mind over again. Blows my mind. Some of them are, are, I mean-

1:14:23 Speaker 2 Give me an example.

1:14:25 Speaker 1 Take for example, uh, the sicha of last, of, of Nosay, stam, Nosay is last week. You know that the sicha of Nosay last week, Tosh Mamei, Tosh Ma'aleh, there was two farbrengens. You've s- You know the famous story. The Rebbe walked down unprecedented.

1:14:39 Speaker 2 Yeah.

1:14:39 Speaker 1 The Rebbe walks into the shul with a towel and a kavavat.

1:14:42 Speaker 2 At Mincha, right?

1:14:43 Speaker 1 Yeah, it was like... No, it wasn't Mincha 'cause Mincha was after the first farbrengen.

1:14:46 Speaker 2 Right.

1:14:46 Speaker 1 It was Mincha time. M-W-Would be Mincha time.

1:14:49 Speaker 2 Right.

1:14:49 Speaker 1 Eight o'clock. Shabbos goes out then at 9:00, and the Rebbe walks down to seventy-seventy. No secretaries, no no one. Uh, there's fifty people on seventy-seventy. You know, it's, well, fifty people-

1:14:57 Speaker 2 Having a second farbrengen.

1:14:58 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe decides to make a second farbrengen. So whatever. In that farbrengen, the Rebbe said to sing all the nigunim of the Rebbeim. It was like a, it was like a it was similar to a farbrengen that the Rebbe makes a day after Yom Tov.

1:15:08 Speaker 2 Right.

1:15:08 Speaker 1 Like, you know, Rosh Hashana and-

1:15:09 Speaker 2 Motzaei Yom Tov.

1:15:10 Speaker 1 A Motzaei Yom Tov, but when there's-- But when it's on Friday, the Rebbe would make a, a Shabbos two farbrengens.

1:15:15 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

1:15:15 Speaker 1 The regular Shabbos Shuva, Shabbos Bereishis, and then the, then later, a few hours later, he would make the Yom Tov farbrengen the continuation. But Shavuos never comes out Thursday, Friday, and Shavuos b'chol was, was Sunday, Monday.

1:15:28 Speaker 2 Were you there for this Shabbos?

1:15:30 Speaker 1 I'll tell you the story about that Shabbos. And I lived in Crown Heights still, except for in olive. I lived in Crown Heights, but it's so interesting. My wife and Krinsky, uh, Dovid Krinsky from Jam are cousins.

1:15:41 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

1:15:42 Speaker 1 Uh, g- she's a Gorelik, and my wife is Pozner. So we used to hang out a lot.

1:15:46 Speaker 2 Oh, which, which Pozner? From Lud?

1:15:48 Speaker 1 From Lud, Zisha Pozner, yeah.

1:15:49 Speaker 2 Oh, okay.

1:15:50 Speaker 1 So, so, uh, we used to hang out a lot in Dovid Krinsky's house. And that Shabbos, my wife was, you know, was in, uh, advanced pregnancy. She was, like, in the ninth month. So whatever. We, we spent Shabbos, the whole Shabbos day, we stayed there. And, uh, and so, so usually p-people after Mincha, after the Rebbe's farbrengen, you Mincha, then you have a summer three, four hours, and people start rolling back into seven seventy for Maariv nine o'clock. So, um, so, uh, s- and some people come eight o'clock, you know, and stuff. You know, you have all different types of people, but an average guy is gonna come nine o'clock. I didn't even come nine o'clock. Uh, I don't know if it was ite tebe ite tahara. My wife was, uh, advanced pregnancy, but, uh, I didn't show up even to Maariv, whatever. Unfortunately, so it's already nine thirty. The Rebbe started farbrengen eight o'clock. I don't know for nothing. Krinskys were not there. They were, I guess, uh, either they were taking a walk in the street, and they heard the noise, the farbrengen somehow. I was the only one in the house with my wife. Suddenly the phone rings. So for some reason, I picked it up, whatever. I already davened too. And who was on the phone? Moisha Gorelik. He was in Lunin, Brouha at the time. And, uh, he says, "Who, who's this?" I said, "Zalman." He says, "Zalman? What are you doing in here? The Rebbe's farbrengen." I said, "What?"

1:17:12 Speaker 1 The Rebbe farbrengen from Brouha. He calls me.

1:17:16 Speaker 2 That's funny.

1:17:17 Speaker 1 I ran to seven seventy. Meshuga, I come in, I see a wall of people, and all I heard was, "Baruch eleinu shechachalu mishaloi." I gave a bentching.

1:17:25 Speaker 2 You gave a bentching.

1:17:26 Speaker 1 And then Kasher Bracha I got. So that's my experience in that farbrengen. However-

1:17:29 Speaker 2 Oh, the Rebbe gave Kasher Bracha there?

1:17:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. The Rebbe benched. The Rebbe watched him bench and gave Kasher Bracha, yeah.

1:17:34 Speaker 2 Uh-huh. So, so what-

1:17:35 Speaker 1 Kasher Bracha was in a whole different area. It was like, uh, close to the Mizrach. The Rebbe farbrengen b'chol, he sat-- you know where he sat? He sat, he sat on his, on the davening bimah. The Rebbe went up-

1:17:45 Speaker 2 They set up a table and-

1:17:46 Speaker 1 They-- first, the Rebbe was sitting on... They put-- someone put the chair there, and the Rebbe put-- he sit on the banister. Then they put-- brought the small dollar table, whatever, I don't know. They... This is what I heard, you know. And yeah, the Rebbe was farbrengen over there.

1:17:58 Speaker 2 They had wine and, uh, wine and challah in front of him? You said he came to-

1:18:00 Speaker 1 I don't know if they had wine. Maybe they brought wine. But the Chabad... The Rebbe came even without challah. There's a whole question where the challah came from. Some say Levi Gorelik got it from Beyond the Klein. He brought it over the backyard. Some say they got it from upstairs. Ich weiss nicht. Somehow they altered the challah. They didn't even have a shisel. That they-- someone said that they-- someone put a hat, and the Rebbe's, it fused, and then they found the, the lid of an urn, which is like, uh, sometimes you have this tall lid. Whatever, uh, this is a, uh, a heavenly-

1:18:26 Speaker 2 Hemoda gezachen.

1:18:27 Speaker 1 Yeah. So in that farbrengen, the Rebbe said to sing Nigunim, just like, you know... The truth is, originally, the Nigunim was only Rosh Hashanah. Mamash, I think, maybe from Dalet, Mem-Heh became also all the Yomim Toivim. I'm not sure.

1:18:39 Speaker 2 I didn't know that.

1:18:40 Speaker 1 Yeah. Chabad was only a Rosh Hashanah inyan. And by the way, on a side note, I just wanna tell you, Rosh Hashanah b'chol, they say that the Rebbe said it about the Rabbeim, that they used to be Merumos Rosh Hashanah about special events, you know, like Peisachim, approaching 100 years soon. For the Rebbe, different, different inyanim. Rosh Hashanah in the Beis, which is the last Rosh Hashanah that we heard the Rebbe speak, the Rebbe was Merumos two inyanim, gimel tammuz of Zayda. I mean, this is-- again, it's, it's open for interpretation. But I just wanna tell you, it's very powerful because there's one place where the Rebbe talks about the Tekiah Gedolah, that it says, "Ad she Yadimu p'nei haTekiah," until the face of the, the Tekiah becomes red. And the Rebbe, the Rebbe says, "Shehadam olel harosh," the blood goes up, but it should be an ofen bari. I mean, a stroke is blood in the head, you know. It's something over there that the Rebbe's are kind of, uh, trying to sweeten. Then, early in the farbrengen, the Rebbe mentions the Nigunim. So the Rebbe talk-- mentions the Rabbeim. So he mentions all the names. Unusual, I mean, I don't know exactly how unusual, but it's ju- every time it's a little bit different. But over here, the Rebbe mentions, you can see it's, it's not, it's not in a mugger, but it's in a built-in mugger. The Rebbe mentions the Rabbeim. When he comes to the Tzemach Tzedek and the Rebbe Maharash,

1:19:54 Speaker 1 the Rebbe throws in a, a very interesting line. He says, "Ki yedua," that there was a special Kesher of the Tzemach Tzedek and the Rebbe Maharash. Uh, "Ki yedua," the word Chassidim, "Echad b'echad yigoshu." Echad is a Gematria Yud Gimmel, and you have Yud Gimmel Nisan, Yud Gimmel Tishrei. And then the Rebbe says-- A-actually, that word maybe the Rebbe doesn't mention there. He mentions it many other times. I'm not sure. But then the Rebbe says they had a special Kesher, and the Fridik-- the Tzemach Tzedek got Memane givern the Rebbe Maharash b'chayav, vail is nisht givern si-- is nisht, is nisht givern sikher, si said efshar zayn inyanim from V'al Af U'tashuv before, be-before, uh, before Bais Hamashiach. Basically, he's-- the Rebbe's saying very clearly, you can look it up yourself, the Rebbe's saying that the reason why the Tzemach Tzedek was Memane the Rebbe Maharash was because there's a possibility there'll be V'al Af U'tashuv. Uh, if you read it, uh, i-in-in reverse, and we all know very well that the Rebbe was not Memane anyone, and on the contrary, we even know that there was a, a certain story when the Rebbe gave over the information to Chodikov and to Mindell So they are kind of the way-- It was all by pe. So when they wrote it, not that they thought that they're gonna be Rebbe or anything like that, but they wrote it in such a way that the pyramid of the Moses of the Machnisol, no, is that they'll be

1:21:13 Speaker 1 the kind of the top of the pyramid and the, and the, and the Rebbe crossed it out, said, like, "I'm gonna leave the Moses in the hands of one or two people." You know, the Rebbe excluded any sort of any type of... So if you read in reverse what the Rebbe is saying in the last Rosh Hashanah is that if, if you're-- He's mamar because, because unfortunately there might be fortified. And, and then, and then, so why is the Rebbe not mamar? Yeah, whatever. Read between the lines. But I think it's unbelievable that the Rebbe's maram is destroying Yonom because I know they give him Tammuz. But getting back to... I'm sorry.

1:21:48 Speaker 2 So what, what excited you from Parshas Nosy?

1:21:50 Speaker 1 Nosy, right. Yeah. See, you have a good memory. I, I get distracted. I go on side roads, you know.

1:21:56 Speaker 2 I, I, I, I, I, I, I get paid to be an interviewer-

1:21:59 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:22:00 Speaker 2 For my life.

1:22:00 Speaker 1 So Parshas Nosy, Parshas Nosy is one of the examples. And again, it's not that I remember this midiva, especially this fabregen. I'm not a chozer. This fabregen I wasn't even there. Like, I wasn't there unfortunately. So but the, the Mugra di Kesifa. Yeah, let's go by the... The, the Rebbe says to sing the Nigunim of the Rabbeim. So in the, in the Mugra it says, "Aseres HaNigunim." So how do you get, how do you get Aseres HaNigunim in nine Rabbeim? Yeah. Actually, in, in the, in the, in the, in the Fabregen HaYedua, where the Rebbe broke the union of the Seferim, Tes Tav Tammuz, Taf Shin Mem He, the Rebbe called it 일부터 ברכתם כוס. When the Rebbe, like, exploded with the, with the Seferim. So that, that was a very-- And that's ם יומטב. That's a very, very heavenly thing. The Rebbe made an early fabregen. He made it before Shkiah. He said, "I wanna chap a rain before Shkiah on Tes Tav Tammuz." And the Rebbe said to sing Nigunim of all the Rabbeim. That's like a crazy thing. The only other time the Rebbe-- Not Yom Tov was, was the שים שפטר של משיח. So the Rebbe said to sing all the Nigunim of the Rabbeim, and he said because it's a יום הוודה, it's not Yom Tov, it's a working day, should do it by Kitza. And then when he got to, Yoel got to the end of the בנגני, when he got to the end of the בנגני, which was

1:23:11 Speaker 1 next nigun would naturally be Who Will It Be Now, the Rebbe started the Ma'ayan. That's interesting. Like, the Rebbe purposely stopped it by-

1:23:18 Speaker 2 When was this?

1:23:19 Speaker 1 This is Tes Tav Tammuz Mem He.

1:23:20 Speaker 2 Right.

1:23:20 Speaker 1 But getting back to Nosy. So they sang all the Nigunim, including Who Will It Be Now. So now you have nine Rabbeim and, and, and the Rebbe says, "Aseres HaNigunim." So the, the Rebbe doesn't leave you to make the calculations. In this, in the Mugra di Kesifa, again, I don't know what's Melamida Lamata, what's Melamata Lamida, like, who wrote it, but it's Mugra. So the Rebbe... The count is like this. The Sholosh Urez is counted as three. Then you have a Keiliata again of the Alter Rebbe. So now we have eight from the Ba'al Shem Tov till the Rebbe, okay, but there's nine Nigunim over there. All right? And then it says, "Va'aseres," and the tenth nigun, "HaNigun L'Melech HaMashiach." That's how the Rebbe counts the ten Nigunim. Nigun, Aseres HaNigunim, and he counts them like that. VaNigun A-- Va'ase-- Nigun Aseri, Nigun L'Melech HaMashiach. That's one, one thing. It's one out of many other things. Then, on the name of the Friediker Rebbe, the Rebbe many times would say that the Friediker Rebbe's name is connected to the Geulah, right?

1:24:20 Speaker 2 Right.

1:24:21 Speaker 1 Yosef Shmoive, Yitzchak Shmoive. So over here, on the name of the Friediker Rebbe, there's a star, and it says, Yose-- Uh, uh, uh, "Shebes Shmoysov Kshurim HaMaGeulah." And he brings Psukim. On the name of the Tzemach Tzedek it says the Rebbe's name. It says, "Be-- By the, by the Tzem-- By the Tzemach Tzedek." Over there it says, "Shebe--" And this... Line after line. "Shebes Shmoysov Heng Shmoysov Shemelech HaMashiach." And there were many things like that throughout the year. So, but some of them came later in-- When the Rebbe edited the Sicha, they came in later. But I'm just telling you, you asked me what, you know, the, the isius the Rebbe was using. First of all, the fabregens in that year, there used to be for many, many years, all the years, the first nigun that they would sing when the Rebbe make Kiddush, right after Kiddush, was the Nigun of the capital. That year it became Sisah Besisah Usifas Geulah, used to sing.

1:25:15 Speaker 2 Nun Beis.

1:25:16 Speaker 1 Nun Alef-

1:25:16 Speaker 2 Nun Alef

1:25:16 Speaker 1 ... Nun Alef. Yeah. So that whole year cycle from right after Chabres Nisan, mainly from Tazria Metzaia, when they announced in front of the Rebbe, if he-- The whole-- More or less all those fabregens are isius. The Rebbe, the Rebbe's, like, bombing, uh... Heavy stuff I'm saying. You know, there's-- The Rebbe, several times the Rebbe says, "Menachem Shmoive." Uh, one time, one time he says, "Vegam Mendel Shmoive." Uh, the Rebbe keeps talking about it. Well, take for example, there's a Ba'al Ha'Nura and a, and a Chasam Sofer that have a similar quote that I don't know, I never made a search yet, but I think in forty years, maybe once, maybe, maybe not, in one year cycle, the Rebbe talks about it six times. What does it say? It says, "In every generation, there's a, a person that's royal Yesh Mashiach, and when the time will come, the Habrisht will send him." So two similar quotes. Not only did the Rebbe spoke about it six times in one year, in one of the places the Rebbe added B'ksav Yad, "Uv'dereinu Nesi Dereinu," who it is. Like, as if someone would think it's the Baba of the Rebbe. Like, you know, the, "Uv'dereinu Nesi Dereinu K'ved Ushmezmo Chad Hu." The Rebbe, the Rebbe was pounding that year, uh, so many different angles about, about, about-

1:26:29 Speaker 2 What do you think the point of that was?

1:26:31 Speaker 1 I-- This is-

1:26:32 Speaker 2 How do you understand it? I'm not here to argue with you.

1:26:34 Speaker 1 With, without... No, I'm saying without discussing how to convey it to the-- First of all-

1:26:38 Speaker 2 I'm not talking about that

1:26:39 Speaker 1 ... first of all, there was no consensus about, about publicizing the Rebbe then as Mashiach, uh, till Taf Shin. Almost by no one. Almost. I would say up to ninety-nine percent. Uh, everyone ultimately accepted this Likuta, uh, you know, gradually.

1:26:55 Speaker 2 But how do you understand it? I'm not looking to argue with you.

1:26:58 Speaker 1 I, I understand it, the Rebbe, we reached a p-- Look, okay, I'll tell you very simple. Hashem Shalom. Twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, sixty. One day. One day, we will have to know who Moshiach is. So I think that we reached a point in Taf Shin Nun Alef and Beis where the Rebbe announced the Geez Mangulaschem. It became, it became an automatic... If you go through this whole history, which is a topic which I think is a very important... I'm sure there's Sfarim where people wrote about this, but I'm just-- It's one of my dreams to really thoroughly go through the history of how this develops, starting even from the Gemara's times. But basically, in our generation, the concept of identifying Moshiach, because we're closer to Moshiach, became much, much more than ever before. It's not a new thing from this generation. It always existed. Go through the Gemara, Rishonim, Acharonim, Chassidim. It always existed that this, that this... The HeMed writes, "V'chol dor haya mashul achzim mi-yer Moshiach." In this generation, starting from, from the Rebbe and Avram Paris going on to Fridyke Rebbe, it started to grow more and more and more. But then there was always setbacks. I'm, I'm going very bekitza, but the setbacks have ahezbra. And then it's funny because the, one of the biggest setbacks was Mem Hei, right? Shabbos Bereshis Mem Hei. This is Roclag, everyone knows that. I was with the Farbrengen. What happened? Fire. Basically, it, it, it didn't start... Dovve Shalom Bevolpa was proceeding. He, he

1:28:30 Speaker 1 got this chinuch from Avram Paris, Machias Lonim. There was a certain element of Chassidim that had-- And they got it from the Rebbe. This whole thing originates from the Rebbe. The whole concept of identifying is something-- It's, it's, it's, it's originates from the Rebbe. Do you know that there's a letter that was written to the Rebbe in Taf Shin Lamed Alef? Okay. I, I remember always writing to the Rebbe, Chabad MoShLita. Yeah. Only in Alef it became Chabad Mo-- Uh, Melech HaMoshiach Lita. But now we hear that here and there, there were a few people that used to write to the Rebbe like that always. There's a famous story with Berke Hein that he wrote to the Rebbe, "Yechi Haschakad MoMelech Ham Melech Hamoshiach." And the Rebbe smiled and he says, "What's happened to them, Hei?" So the Rebbe's commenting about it. So it was always part of, uh, Lubavitch. Uh, I grew up as a child always knowing it. But then, then Volpa, which is a big Lamdan, he, he, he extended it in a, in a deep Him. He really-- He knows how to write, this guy. He's a, he's a super-- He can write overnight a whole book. And he dealt with this topic, but he started to pull the string a little bit too much. And now also, when there's opposition from within, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a proven fact. With Avram Paris's story, with flying papers from the plane or always there was a setback inside, so it

1:29:48 Speaker 1 caused the Rebbe to, okay, kind of hold off. Volpa didn't have the sechel to know when to stop. So he was like-- He was-- He, he had correspondence. He was writing to the Rebbe there and back. This Simchas Torah didn't suddenly happen. And he was, he was pulling it too tight. Like, you know, he was- Right. So suddenly, Shabbos Bereshis, they sang Chayei El Dinenu, which was a nigun that they sang by the Rebbe for s- eight years. You can see they, they even extended it. It used to be Chayei El Dinenu, Morenenu, Rabenu. Chayei El Moshiach. They used-- In the later years, they used to sing Chayei El Harebbe Moshiach Tikenu. And the Rebbe swings his hand, and you can see videos. But that was the nigun that the Rebbe suddenly explodes. And not because-- They sang it before, but it w- wasn't because of the nigun. It was be-- It was-- It like-- The, the pot boiled. You know what I mean? And then the Rebbe suddenly stopped the middle of the nigun, started to scream all about Am Shteta Fatah Sama Yonas and Medoch Yeret and, uh, don't dare to do it right to Bechol Bechol Bechol, right? So, so, so I remember Yael come for bringing Yutais Kislev that year, a month later, upstairs in seven seventy. And Yael says, in his life, he says, he's been to all the Farbrengens. He's never heard the Rebbe address himself to the Nir Moshiach as Sober Goli like, like, like that Farbrengen. And

1:31:09 Speaker 1 why? He explained. The Rebbe spends ten minutes screaming how it's not the time to do it. You can't do it. The Rebbe, instead of the Rebbe saying, "It's wrong. It's against Halakha. Cut it out, Shalom Aleichem Shalom." No, the Rebbe keeps explaining why it's not the time. How derek like when Yosef Zayda, uh, went to Shem Tov, um, uh, wanted to put out Derech Mitzvah Sefer. You think about it nowadays, what's, what's giving out Mitzvah Smida Melech in Derech Mitzvah Sefer? It's like, it's like such a power of, uh... Similar to Yona Avtzin that came out in Geula LeGeula. You know that book? Yeah. Geula LeGeula? Yeah. So Yona Avtzin, your uncle, yeah? My uncle, yeah. So that book is a very innocent book, right? It's not like, you know, Rebbe, Moshiach, anything, right? Do you know that that the Rebbe didn't want to give out i-in those years, and later the Rebbe said to give it out things? There was a change, not because the Rebbe changed his mind. It's because there's a-- You know, it's step by step. So he wanted to give out Mitzvah Smida Melech, and the Rebbe gave- Well, well, in your mind- So what did Yosef Zayda said-- did say then? He said, "Rechaim," right away. With my Zayda, I think he says. The fact that the Rebbe wrote that it's, that it's not this man, ain't this man drum or something like that, he says that, that Rebbe's telling you that not now. Wait, hold off. It's gonna

1:32:21 Speaker 1 come a time. What I'm trying to say is that Taf Shin involved exactly-- It's shocking. No one has a real explanation till today. One year later, one year only, exactly to the day. I mean, a day off. The Rebbe suddenly said, and that's, by the way, one of the first sichas that started the new trend of the Rebbe, uh, being Maggid Hasichah every week. It, it didn't start m- it started in the erech, and then it went Simchas Torah involved. What does the Rebbe say? "Nosi Hadere is Moshiach. " And the Rebbe says, "We can't titchen Moshiach Hashem." You know, some of these nights like, look, Moshiach Hashem is a title that, that, uh, Moshe Feinstien wrote on the Rebbe. So it's not really like, you know, Moshiach. It's, you know, it's like, it's like another one of those heavy, lofty titles. So they have a says we can't touch on this. And they can read for people have names and those are gonna become a Moshiach gibberish to them. Well, as they did, the CS on divas is divas is this is heck of a clay sickle of mass and gossip. He, he, he, he mashallah him powerful. One year after the Rebbe screams about not saying it, but the oil was still, the oil was still shocked. That took a few years till the oil melted, but the Rebbe himself kind of reverses it. In Tofshin Nun where it became a whole new Tikkun. When the Rebbe said the year is Mangala didn't

1:33:44 Speaker 1 come Stamos. After the fall of Soviet Union, and if you think about it, it became a... It's historic. People don't know this. Karagil, a lot of shocking things go with it. They, they able to push it under the carpet in such a subtle way that you don't get tavka. Do you know the, the, the Rambam quotes the Gemara Amashmuel I think, "Amen. Elimelech Moshiach Elishibben Marcus Luad." The Rambam tavka explains the reason for it, that the, the, the, the transition of Elimelech to Yemos Moshiach will be r-- they won't-- don't expect this spooky stuff. That will come later, but that's not gonna be right in the beginning. At least it doesn't have to be. And, and everything is a muscle. What's gonna be, what's for sure gonna be in the base of English lab, but there'll be Shibboleet Malchus. Shibboleet Malchus means we won't be subjugated to America and to other nations, the Khulu, but we'll be in the leading force like Shlomo, David, and Shlomo. But really, Shibboleet Malchus, the main, the good of Shibboleet Malchus is Torah, Missus. If you look in history from Khum Mesam Ekdesh till today, till Tofshin Nun, there was never a time that simultaneously in the whole world and without pressure. Shlomo Malach's times or whatever it is, it was the pressure of Shlomo Malach being the king. Nowadays, the Goyim are not under any pressure. Why are Goyim allowing us do Torah, Missus freely? This is-- it's unprecedented, the whole world. So really it started off with

1:35:17 Speaker 1 America, but then when the Soviet Union fell on the whole Western Europe, now from Tofshin Nun Berech till today, we are in a historic moment where the year does not have any problem doing Torah, Missus. Ninety-eight percent. Even Iran. Iran is not against Torah, Missus. They're not into Torah, Missus. Okay, now you're having in Europe issues in middle, but overall, they used to be, they used to be the golden ages here, there, not-- but never simultaneously the whole world. This is something that I think if you check history, for two thousand years, we haven't had this. But the Rebbe never used the exact expression, but basically that's what happened when the Soviet Union fell. The Rebbe connected to Gula, and that's when the Rebbe decided he gives Mangola them, and that's when everything changed. So now you're asking me what I understand from it. Very, very, very, very simple. Because before we, before saying the Rebbe's Moshiach before was a Sidra Shaharish, but it went up and down. I mean, there's a I'm trying to limit myself. There's a story that the Rebbe himself says about how he-- Rebbe doesn't say clearly that he, but everyone knows that the Rebbe spoke about people that were saying about Frederick Rebbe's Moshiach, and there was like a hand-- one or two handfuls of sitting them then in Tofshin Gimel. Who were those two people saying it? Also relatively, relative to those times. It wasn't in such publicity like now. And Ron Perez and the Rebbe, they used

1:36:44 Speaker 1 to add, and the Rebbe says a story about it, that he-- that someone came to complain to his Rebbe, Hayitacham Rabavitch saying Moshiach is coming with his organ, the Hazer Moshiach, that the Frederick Rebbe's Moshiach. And this Rebbe, they say it's a caption, it's a Rebbe, Zalman Garay Shver, told his Hasid. And the Rebbe is saying the story, not, not Rebbe, not Rebbe Tofshin Chof. And the Rebbe is saying the story, and the Rebbe says, "So he told him that this Rebbe told this Hasidim, what's your problem? Zuck to the Hakava Bechol Mishe Yovi, or it's Nisht Mir, the way such a Nisht Mir, but Arjas Azer." This is the Rebbe saying the story. You understand? But Khulu, Khulu, Khulu. When it came Tofshin Nun, then... Now, when it came Chof Ches Nissan, this is the history. This is the brief history. When it came Chof Ches Nissan, the Rebbe said, "Two thousand second." So there was a few different ways that people took it. They were all shocked, right? The Rebbe said such words. So there was a few different attempts. There was, there was an approach like Geshe Mendel kind of came up with some type of, uh, we're gonna force the Gula or something like that, and Rebbe wrote him a very sharp answer. "You, you missed the point. That's not what I meant." Then you have, uh, Itshiki Gansburg, which was not a lazy man. You can't say that he's stamina. He was a person that toiled to the last breath.

1:37:58 Speaker 1 If you know who I'm talking about, Itshiki Gansburg. He got up, and he, he got up by Fabregen, Shmini, two days after. And he sa-- and he sa-- and he says, "Tzadik Goza" by, you know, between the sickness. "Tzadik Goza Konsh Boroch Hamakayim." And the Rebbe, "Zol Goza Zayn at Moshiach Hakuma." And the Rebbe got very serious, and the Rebbe said, "The Giminesh Kanaya Arbat." Like, I kind of like, "I know what I have to do." Basically, the Rebbe said that's not the point. What was the point? You know the, you know the video where the Rebbe tells this lady, it's function of the Chamonas to see. She wasn't the-- doesn't seem to be a Lubavitcher, but she came to the Rebbe by dollars, and she tells the Rebbe, "We always relied on you, and, and, and I wanna see my son." Like my, my Shver always used to say, "Everyone has a different reason why they want Moshiach to come." He wants-- someone wants the Rebbe to Madala, someone wants to get salvation. That's not the real reason why Moshiach has to come. Moshiach has to come because of Gilel Hacus. But whatever. But she's an innocent lady, and she's crying to the Rebbe, and she says, "We always..." So the Rebbe said, "But if you-- I'm the Rebbe." You ever saw this video?

1:38:55 Speaker 2 Yeah, I've seen it.

1:38:56 Speaker 1 So I said, "Then, then I'm telling you that it depends on you, you, you." And then she repeats herself, and the Rebbe gets very serious. It's, it's a-- and I always wonder, like, the Rebbe's a kind of not acting, quote-unquote, uh, it's like Hofchu Midah Sarach, Midah Sadin. And my interpretation from, for why the Rebbe gets so strict about it, and he points and he says, "And you, you." The Rebbe almost kind of screamed at her. I think that the Rebbe was trying very hard to convey a message. "Guys, it's not about me giving up. It's about Avoda BeKech Hatzmai." That's the Tacha site. That's the first Sicha. The first Sicha after you-- Basile Gani.

1:39:33 Speaker 2 So, so in your mind, even after Yezman Golasm, or precisely after Yezman Golasm, it's still Avoda BeKech Hatzmai?

1:39:41 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That last stage, basically the Rebbe said it right in the first Sicha after the first Maimer, Hamadaha Leington.

1:39:49 Speaker 2 Right.

1:39:50 Speaker 1 Obviously, there's a lot of Avoda BeKech Hatzmai done till then, but that's the only way you can really interpret. Again, I, I don't want to touch a topic and not, not give, you know, give it the right amount of attention. But basically, the way I look at... Everyone understands that Gimotamos is not Mikronik. Nothing is Mikronikris. Nothing. Koshke Vakov Achim or something like this with the Rebbe. A-and the Rebbe also, also, one of the logic ways, logic ways that I can explain a novel Babicha about this whole issue is I tell them-- They ask people who used to ask, now they don't ask anymore, "What about a successor?" I tell them, "Think to yourself, the smallest, tiniest businessman that has a successful business running, and he doesn't have a natural successor, isn't he gonna look to do something with the business or just let it drop?" How in the world would you accuse the Babicha Rebbe, which everyone knows is a very proper, you know, proper person, that he would take a company that he didn't build, it was built for seven generations, and he'll just let it drop down the cliff. And befrat of the Rebbe took us up to the cliff. The whole Tofshnun and Al of the Rebbe is, "Come, come." And he takes us to the peak of the cliff and leaves us.

1:41:00 Speaker 3 No.

1:41:00 Speaker 1 So logically, there's gotta be a plan. And my way of explaining the plan is avoid the B'ka Chatzei. The Rebbe says, "You didn't get it 'til now. I'm gonna have to kinda walk to the side a second, and I wanna see how you guys are gonna act without me answering and writing and fabriking. Let's, let's see how you can do it." That's my way of interpretation. And I think that we-- I don't wanna say Chas Vashalom. I mean, the fact that we didn't finish the process 'til now means that we're failing, and we have to keep rethinking about it. I was just sitting yesterday by Chasam and talking to one of my old friends, and unfortunately, we're not-- You know, we're friends, but we're not on the same side. And I was telling him, "Let's talk. Let's... Like an army. Let's, let's, let's figure out what's, what's going on over here." You know, the-- It's still-- It's an ongoing-- The Rebbe, the Rebbe used the words that Moshiach is suffering in Golus. Well, the Rebbe stop suffering? The Rebbe suffering. He wants us-- Whatever. But basically-

1:41:53 Speaker 3 What did he say to you? What did your friend say?

1:41:55 Speaker 1 I don't know. Whatever.

1:41:56 Speaker 3 It was in Skabel?

1:41:58 Speaker 1 I don't know. In Skabel, I told him, I told him, "I'm waiting for a call from you." I, I've been doing this for years, for twenty-five years. I, I always call. I don't wanna say no names now. It's whatever.

1:42:06 Speaker 3 No, don't say names.

1:42:07 Speaker 1 But I have, I have friends on the most extreme side. But Baruch Hashem, we're good friends. But this discussion of this, there's a certain, Maisa certain that doesn't let. 'Cause the certain knows that there will be discussion, it will be solved. I, I promise you. I'm telling you, if there'll be discussion with the will to solve, it will be solved. Don't let-- People don't have to have the same, uh, uh, exact views. Uh, I have a beautiful, beautiful, uh, thing that I learned. Someone, someone wrote to my attention, I think it's powerful. I wrote an article once in Beis Moshiach about the Rebbe's last-- It's called The Rebbe's Last Pencil Mark, which is so significant, Al Pisachu. And Koshakin, the Rebbe himself said about the Freda Rebbe, "I wish people would pay focus to the last things that the Freda Rebbe said." 'Cause naturally, a parent gives guidance. You know, if he wants to give a Beremus, he'll give a Beremus, but he'll, he'll give-- He won't leave us-- You know, if a father, if a parent leaves a child, he's gonna leave either a babysitter, or he's gonna leave a camera. He's g- he's not gonna leave a child in there. So the Rebbe left us guidance. So the last sikkah that we were sikkah to hear from the Rebbe, which is, um, uh, uh, Vayako, Vayako Mabeis. So, so, so Motta Shabbos, so that we do it. The Rebbe, it wasn't the first time Mamash, but still it was something that people spoke

1:43:25 Speaker 1 about. The Rebbe knew that Monday will unfortunately maybe be Chavsai Nodah. He's not gonna be back here the sikkah that he did every week, so the Rebbe made a few-- Mamash, uh, two small things on the top of the, of the line of, of, of that sikkah Vayako. Now, the Chal, the Techelan of the Fabringen was about Machta Shekel, about Achtas. So, so all the years, like a lot of people, I don't know of anyone that I heard an interpretation or anyone look for. Uh, the Rebbe, they-- It was exciting to know that the Rebbe Motta Shabbos planned, you know. Many years later, like, it goes back twenty years ago, but twenty years, uh, fifteen years after Gimmel Tammuz, whatever. I was sharing this information with a few guys in Chabad House, and one guy used to stand and ask questions, you know. He's, he was like, uh, "What did the Rebbe correct?" Uh, he stood and asked it, like he didn't really... I'm telling you the Rebbe corrected, but I didn't tell-- I said, "Really? You know what? He's right. How comes the Rebbe, in search what the Rebbe corrected?" There's tons and tons of Kisveiad, but this is the last Kisveiad. Unbelievable. I, I'm, I'm gonna skip the first one. The first one's, uh, it's very interesting, 'cause the Rebbe tr-- Okay, the Rebbe said that in most years, the first word, most years, Vayako BKude is Mhuber. That's what I shared with this friend yesterday. Most years, Vayako BKude is Mhuber. The

1:44:36 Speaker 1 Rebbe crossed out the word most, Rave, and he wrote Kama VaKama. Twelve out of nineteen years is Mhuber. How do you-- How does the word Kama VaKama instead of Rave? I mean, it's a real Rave. So my interpretation then, going back already fifteen years ago, I didn't realize how right I was, that Rave is not an Achtas word. Rave is powerful, Al Pisachu and Al Pitecha. Rave.

1:45:00 Speaker 3 Right.

1:45:00 Speaker 1 But, but you see, nowadays, I didn't even know it then. Nowadays, you see in America and Eretz Yisroel, the Miyut is kicking the Rave. They're fighting the Rave. The Miyut doesn't wanna accept the Rave, even though the Rave is supposed to have the legal power, right?

1:45:15 Speaker 3 Right.

1:45:16 Speaker 1 So what do you see? The Rave is not Achtas. Rave is powerful, but it's not Achtas. So the Rebbe says, "I'll take out the word of Rave, and I'll use a word which is barely correct." You can't say Kama VaKama on twelve out of nineteen, but Kama VaKama, 'cause Kama VaKama is out. But that's not so-- This is, this-- The next one is greater. The next line, this is, this is something that my son gave me this insight, Levi. He says, "The last word was, "The last pencil mark that we have is, is crossed out the word." So in my mind, I would just say, "Well, the Rebbe said, why do you have to have two words that are separating? One word's enough. Maybe in Hebrew it's more correct." He s- s-- Levi says, my son Levi says, "Nefrades, Deus Nefrades is a, is a creation of the Ein Stein, not by mistake. We're not sheep. We're humans. And, and, and we're all supposed to have a different opinion That, uh, character, different character. Dayenu is not a character opinion, opinion. Why? Why do they-- a husband and wife, they have the same opinion exactly, something is wrong with there. You're supposed to, like they say, You're supposed to have different-- it's different characters. What's the beauty? What the Yiddish that likes the, the fistfight? No. The beauty is that even though you're nifrades, you're not nifne atsmam. There's two people running a family, there's a bunch of children, but it's mishpacha achas. You have

1:46:40 Speaker 1 a kehillah of a hundred, two hundred, three hundred people, three hundred dayus. How many mish-- how many kehillas is it? Kehillah achas.

1:46:47 Speaker 3 Right. Being different doesn't mean that you're alone.

1:46:50 Speaker 1 But it's unbelievable. This is the last thing that we have left. I don't care if people... The more interpretations that can lead to good things are more we-welcome. The Torah has multiple. But there's interpretations of power, and you've seen, I wanna show you. Just to prove how powerful this is, give a look what the Satan accomplished. The essence, if you think about it, what, what does the Satan do? He takes a twenty percent argument of a husband and wife, which is legitimate. Stupid stuff. Yeah, legitimate. And instead of doing it the regular proper way, which is discussion, or sometimes even a third party, and then everything is solved. And the neighbors know that there's only one family here, and the neighbors don't know that there's two. Children don't hear two opinions here, one opinion. There's two opinions, but they reconcile it, right? What does the Satan do? Satan of, I guess, he has a special tool. He goes , he blows it up thirty, forty, forty, fifty, sixty, a hundred, a hundred and twenty percent chilukidais. And then the Satan is so happy. You know why? Because it's not chilukidais anymore. At that point, it's chilukial of others. When I, when I do-- When I, when I publicize this issue, every single time, for thirty, for th- for thirty-five years, from, from Aleph, every time my mind is drilling of how to do it in such a way that it should be digestible. Like the Rebbe says, "Eifa lamaskabal, let take the dynamite, the tohu,

1:48:07 Speaker 1 and put it into tikkun." Tohu, I told these chevre in seven seventy, tikkun b'tikkun is not our avoda nowadays. Tikkun b'tikkun, there's a lot of... Lubavitch does beautiful things that-- unbelievable professional-- professionality. That's tikkun b'tikkun. Tohu b'tohu is much easier than tikkun b'tikkun. Tohu b'tohu means you don't have to think about anyone and everything. You just spritz.

1:48:30 Speaker 3 Right.

1:48:31 Speaker 1 Yeah. That's not the avoda. The avoda is tohu b'tikkun, which is a tough avoda, but we have kelim for it, koichos for it. The Rebbe gave us koichos to take, uh, um, a hundred thousand watts and put it in a bulb. That's koichos. It's hefker hateva, we can do it, but it's not easy. So what I'm trying to say is that in an Aleph, there's no question about it, that an Aleph and a Beis, the Rebbe shows us clearly that the time is ripe for the world to know what they have to know before Mashiach comes. There's a Sichot Mishpat in the Aleph, and the Rebbe says, "Midoi Malca Mashiach," the, the appointing of Melach Hamashiach has already been done. We're actually There's a concept. Mashiach is not supposed to drop with eight wings from the sky on top of our head. We're supposed to accept him, but just like David HaMelech. You know, David HaMelech was appointed, anointed by, by, by, by Shmuel Hanavi, right?

1:49:22 Speaker 3 Right.

1:49:22 Speaker 1 Did he become king right away? No, it took seven years till he was... First, he had his fight with Shaul. That's something else. But even when Shaul died. There has to be Kabbalah Samachals. It's, it's, it's all about-- But the Hamashiach needs us to be Mekabel him as a Melech. Yeah. So, so remember, that's not an easy thing. And now we have the Nisayon HaGimotamos. But, but you asked me what happened in Aleph and Beis, and that's what was understood by everyone then. Everyone accepted that. Everyone understood that, wow, we've reached the time. It was like, I remember those days, I was like, "Oh, wow." Like, I remember years before, it was like a secret. It was like, you know, a Lubavitch inside thing. And now we can say the Rebbe Melach Hamashiach. Wow. It's like I, I remember after the, after Yichi, the, when the Rebbe came out, uh, uh, Yom Kippur, Rosh Hashanah. Rosh Hashanah, Rebbe still was not on the porch. It was just behind the window. But I think, I think, uh, I think Matsey Yom Kippur-- Well, basically, Yom Kippur Sukkot, that's when it started. So the first time the Rebbe came out and it was a, it was a struggle. Some saying Yichi, some saying uh. And, and, uh, they sang-- One time they sang Yichi, and the Rebbe, after forty-five seconds, had to close the win-- the curtain. So then the Chevre said, "Ah, you see? Because he sang Yichi." The next day, the Tache got scared. So

1:50:31 Speaker 1 next day, they sang Sheivona Mesechta Shmoneh. Forty-five seconds, Rebbe closed the curtain, so there's no liar. It was like a struggle. Then what happens Simchas Torah? This is when it started. Simchas Torah, most of the-- Rebbe came out earlier than, than expected, and, uh, and most of the-- wasn't even there. Uh, Talucha. So-- But the crowd that was there kind of, uh, it was not in the direction. So they sang, well, all the Hakafot, all different Nigunim, but there's no Mashiach, nothing. So Berel Lipska, I kind of... This is always on, uh, you know, he, he kind of feels bad. He says, "Wow, Simchas Torah, the Rebbe's day, we're not gonna say Yichi." So, so it comes already the last Hakafa, and the Rebbe's holding the Sefer Torah. And Berel Lipska decides he's gonna... Not gonna sing because the, the Nigun of, of, of Hakafot is, it's the Nigun of Hakafot. He's not gonna start a different Nigun. But he just-- As soon as the Rebbe has a Sefer Torah, he gets the guts, he climbs up, and he says Yichi. He sa-- He announces Yichi. I mean, the first time he announced Yichi was Shabbos That's the Halal, uh, you know, before Chof Zayin Adar. So he announces Yichi, and the Rebbe cl- the Rebbe makes with his head. So he announces a second time. Three times. But the Rebbe makes his head so strong that it-- The kind of-- The Rebbe pushes in a fourth time and a fifth time. There was, like,

1:51:56 Speaker 1 no question. Like, ev- the people that saw it, the Rebbe, like, Marvelous, pushed his way through four, five, six, seven, eight times. And what happens when you announce seven, eight times? It develops into a Nigun. So it became a Nigun. So, uh, so, uh- Okay. So then they tied it, and it was not for the public. It's only for inside. Comes it was the day of Siyam HaRamvam, and again, it wasn't such a big but it's a video. And the Rebbe comes out, and they start Yichi, and then the Rebbe starts shaking so strong that Moshe Klein had to hold the chair from the back, kind of the trunk. The Rebbe was shaking away. And I remember then, that's how I told you the story, that I, I see it later. I saw the video because we were not there. We were with Siyam HaRamvam. And I, I see the Chanah Pervan. I start touching him. I say, "Are we, are we still here? Are we still here? Is this G-d still?" I, I couldn't believe it. So whatever. I'm, I'm just saying, it just was like so clear that this is now a, a, a new Gili. It's a Gili that now... Uh, I, I, I'll tell you also-

1:53:00 Speaker 3 But what, but what do you do with that?

1:53:01 Speaker 1 One more thing. I wanna tell you one more thing.

1:53:02 Speaker 3 In, in, in your mind, what do you do with that?

1:53:03 Speaker 1 Let me tell you one more thing.

1:53:04 Speaker 3 Because, because it's 30 years later.

1:53:06 Speaker 1 One second. One more thing I wanna tell you.

1:53:07 Speaker 3 Okay.

1:53:12 Speaker 1 Always when the Rebbe spoke about the Tzemach Tzedek, he'd always sneak in the name, name of Moshiach. Actually, going back to the the Rebbe started . So it's on tape. The Rebbe says So and the Rebbe smiles, and the Rebbe says We don't wanna tease the world. That's one of the places the Rebbe sneaks in, in a, in a, in a humorous way, how , how Menachem and Moshiach is the same thing. Whatever. But the Rebbe talks about the Tzemach Tzedek, and he says that his name is Moshiach And technically you can say, "Okay, that means the Gili of Moshiach." You know, it's two things. So you have over here the Rebbe's efforts in Moshiach. Okay, now go back to your question. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

1:54:30 Speaker 3 Yeah, the question is you, you, you-

1:54:32 Speaker 1 What do you do with it today?

1:54:33 Speaker 3 Well, you've, you've spoken about that already, but you were just mentioning how at the time you felt like Moshiach had come.

1:54:41 Speaker 1 No. It's not not.

1:54:42 Speaker 3 And, and, and 30 years later... So how, how, how do you, how do you deal with that?

1:54:45 Speaker 1 No, I, I questioned... I was, uh... What I'm trying to say is, like, "Wow, are we still here?" No, I, I, honestly, obviously, I did not feel that... Uh, well, again, later, you have to understand, when the Rebbe said to learning Yomi Moshiach, I think about this a lot of times. It sounds like, you know, oh, well, after Nisan, we expected a bigger explosion, right? And then the Rebbe suddenly comes with this simple, uh, learning Yomi Moshiach Geulah. Yeah, it's a kind of, you know, too simple for us. It's like not, um, not dramatic enough. But later, I thought about this so much, and I say, "Wow." How the Rebbe's-- Like I said before, the Rebbe does everything davka subtle. That's the Rebbe's Derech because everything has to channel through Derech HaTeva, which that's, by the way, an unbelievable tochen of the sicha of Gimel Tammuz, the last time we heard the Rebbe speak in an alef. All about everything has to be by Derech HaTeva. Powerful sicha. So the Rebbe channels everything in such a subtle way. So, uh, no, I'll... I'm trying to remember what I was gonna say. Um, I forgot what I was gonna say. Ah, so learning Yomi Moshiach Geulah is, is like a subtle, gentle, very kashmak way, like, how to bring this powerful stuff into the world. 'Cause when you're learning Yomi Moshiach Geulah, you learn so many different things that we didn't know before. We always knew Moshiach. Well, coming of Moshiach. What's coming? Moshiach. Some big

1:56:11 Speaker 1 bang is gonna happen. Moshiach came. And when you learn Yomi Moshiach Geulah, you learn to find out that it's a process, that, that the Moshiach... There's certain places where it writes in a Midrash, in, in, in Midrash Rabbah, that, uh, right? that technically happened. Moshiach came. The Rebbe, the Rebbe uses the word Moshiach came. And I like to always tell people, "Stop asking where's Moshiach. Let's ask where am, where am I. Where are we?" In other words, according to the Rebbe and according to the way we studied in the Moshiach did happen. The Geulah is yet what we're waiting for, and even the Geulah, according to certain sichas of the Rebbe, the Rebbe says v-v-very clear, the And by... And, and this is another thing. I, I, I'm wonder-- I'm just wondering, you as an example for a lot of other people, if you know this thing that I'm about to tell you now. When the Rebbe said to learn Yomi Moshiach, the Rebbe said, you know the whole list, yeah? Rebbe gives a list. And then the Rebbe goes all the way down the list and he says, You aware of that?

1:57:28 Speaker 3 I remember hearing that, yes.

1:57:29 Speaker 1 So first of all, the Rebbe always has-- I don't wanna use the word hides. It's not a proper word to say. The Rebbe always talks about himself. You know, the Rebbe told the, the lawyers, which Yosefa was there, right? But, but, but it's fine. The famous thing that they asked the, the Rebbe, who, who does he refer to when he says, You know that? So the Rebbe pointed to himself.

1:57:51 Speaker 3 Right.

1:57:51 Speaker 1 The Rebbe-- To them, the Rebbe spoke clear. But everyone understood that . Now, not Hashem Shalom, the Rebbe is a kind of using the Friediker Rebbe as a shield. No. The Rebbe and the Friediker Rebbe is one entity that we don't understand. It's beyond. It's not the same as all the Rebbeim. It's like there's something there that they won't let see us. Like the Rebbe said-

1:58:07 Speaker 3 How, why are you so sure that the Rebbe wasn't talking about the Friediker Rebbe-

1:58:10 Speaker 1 The Rebbe, first of all-

1:58:11 Speaker 3 ... Friediker Rebbe.

1:58:12 Speaker 1 First of all, the Rebbe himself said it, I'm telling you. But you're saying-

1:58:15 Speaker 3 He, he said it to the lawyers once

1:58:17 Speaker 1 Right. And he's saying, uh-

1:58:18 Speaker 3 From the

1:58:20 Speaker 1 Many times, there's-- I don't have exact but many times the Rebbe will talk about things that the Friediker Rebbe didn't say, that we know, that we know any any-- And the Rebbe, Ram Mashiach also about The Rebbe says in the name of the Friediker Rebbe, I don't think there's any place that the Friediker Rebbe says. Friediker Rebbe is the one that spoke about this The Rebbe says, I think that's in the also, one of the places. But who's the ? Where did Friediker Rebbe say it?

1:58:52 Speaker 3 So why is he saying it about the Friediker Rebbe?

1:58:53 Speaker 1 'Cause the Rebbe and the Friediker Rebbe is one entity. It's one Matias. Uh, uh, the which is the only that Rebbe ever bringed, which is a interesting because Rebbe bring in every Yemei Elul and every Yom Tov to every Rebbe. But the Rebbe-- There's a, there's a kind of-- Okay. So in that the Rebbe starts off the sikha saying, but it's six-- The sikha about Yechia Melech talking about when the Rebbe spoke about the Indian. It wasn't Rebbe just mentioned it to say. Rebbe had a whole buildup, how it's important to say Yechia Melech because it adds to the Melech. So the Rebbe starts off the sikha saying that sixty-eight years of the Nasius of the Friediker Rebbe, of the . Exa-- How many years was the Friediker Rebbe Nasi? Sixty-eight years. You have thirty years from Taf Resh Peh to Taf Shin Yud, another thirty-eight years to Lamed Hes, to Mem Hes. So you see how I'm talking about it's one Nasius? That the Rebbe talks about this.

1:59:48 Speaker 3 Or, or you could say that the Friediker Rebbe became a Nasi sixty-eight years earlier, and the Rebbe believed that the Friediker Rebbe was still a Nasi-

1:59:54 Speaker 1 Right

1:59:54 Speaker 3 ... the whole time.

1:59:55 Speaker 1 Okay, but, but we all know that the Rebbe is a . The Rebbe, Rebbe didn't say that he's-

1:59:58 Speaker 3 But maybe he felt the Friediker Rebbe was his .

2:00:01 Speaker 1 Yeah. The Rebbe, the Rebbe Teka once said that the and I'm-- He's just the hands and feet. You know, as a Yalfim-

2:00:06 Speaker 3 I'm not here to argue. It just seems to me that the Rebbe actually believed that the Friediker Rebbe was the Nas-- Was

2:00:10 Speaker 1 Right. But the Rebbe also knew the reality. The Rebbe didn't know that he's Nasi?

2:00:15 Speaker 3 I, I, I don't know that we understand these things better than he did.

2:00:18 Speaker 1 Doesn't the Rebbe say ? Doesn't the Rebbe say-- That the Rebbe talks about the seventh generation? Even though the Friediker Rebbe is, is the Nasi now. The-- I'll tell you a better one. I heard-- I remember hearing it-

2:00:30 Speaker 3 No, no, no. That's-

2:00:31 Speaker 1 I re-remember, I remember hearing it by a Fabringen, it's a . I remember hearing it by the Fabringen. The Rebbe says-- The Rebbe mentioned and the Rebbe says like this, sometimes they say from the Ba'al Shem Tov that the Rebbe . It's, it's brought down before. Says, from, from the Ba'al Shem Tov. Rebbe kind of pauses. You know what that means? Rebbe's clearly saying that he's . Clear. You can't get it clearer than that.

2:01:05 Speaker 3 I, I mean-

2:01:06 Speaker 1 Rebbe says,

2:01:09 Speaker 3 I, I understand, but, but we're talking here about the Rebbe saying that the Friediker Rebbe's and, and saying that he didn't mean that, he meant something else. That was my only point.

2:01:18 Speaker 1 No, I didn't, I didn't say he didn't mean that, he meant something else. He meant that and he meant that. It, it's-- The Rebbe is one entity with the Friediker Rebbe. I don't have to explain it. I, I can't explain exactly what it means. But the are one entity. But here there's a and the Rebbe also relates to it. He explains the difference of this generation and other generations. And that's it. The Rebbe is the-- From one side, the Rebbe is the same.

2:01:41 Speaker 3 So let me, so let me ask-

2:01:41 Speaker 1 Okay

2:01:42 Speaker 3 ... so let me ask you a question to wrap it up.

2:01:43 Speaker 1 Yeah.

2:01:43 Speaker 3 I mean, I, I, I, I'm not-- I, I didn't come here to argue.

2:01:47 Speaker 1 Right.

2:01:48 Speaker 3 Um, as you mentioned, there are-

2:01:49 Speaker 1 I came here to discuss.

2:01:50 Speaker 3 No. And, and, and as you mentioned, there are differences of opinions, very strong differences of opinions about these topics. And, uh-

2:01:58 Speaker 1 Actually, I wanna, I wanna make a correction. I-- My opinion is that there's not very strong difference of opinions of the topics. Uh, uh, if there is, it's only a lack of knowledge that people have. I, I personally think that the real difference ultimately, if it'll be discussed, is in differences of how, if, and how to publicize it.

2:02:16 Speaker 3 Well, I, I know, I know that-

2:02:17 Speaker 1 I'm telling you, I can-

2:02:18 Speaker 3 I know. Uh, but I, I also-

2:02:19 Speaker 1 If you want, some other day-

2:02:21 Speaker 3 I-

2:02:21 Speaker 1 I'm telling you, I'll show you.

2:02:22 Speaker 3 Hey, look, uh-

2:02:23 Speaker 1 You are arguing.

2:02:23 Speaker 3 I'm not here to argue with you.

2:02:24 Speaker 1 No, you won't. You won't be able to.

2:02:26 Speaker 3 Fine. But I, but, but, but I, but I can say that there are many people who would disagree with that assessment, that would say there are sharp differences of opinions.

2:02:34 Speaker 1 In what?

2:02:35 Speaker 3 In, in, in, not, not, not-

2:02:37 Speaker 1 If the Rebbe's called the

2:02:39 Speaker 3 In, in, in a lot of the things that, that, that, that, that you mentioned. What does Mashiach mean? What, what, what, what actually did change by Gimel Tammuz? What was re-- what really happened before Gimel Tammuz, and so on. Um-

2:02:51 Speaker 1 Well-

2:02:51 Speaker 3 No. These things-- A lot of these things, even, even you're acknowledging in the past few minutes that a lot of these things are, are, are right? And so, and so-

2:02:59 Speaker 1 Right.

2:03:00 Speaker 3 R-r-right. So, so all-- I, I, I don't want to... I, I, I-

2:03:03 Speaker 1 Yeah. That, that might be an argument if Gimel Tammuz changed anything

2:03:06 Speaker 3 ... I don't wanna take-- I don't want to be the person here to-

2:03:08 Speaker 1 Right.

2:03:09 Speaker 3 I don't wanna-- I didn't come here to argue with you.

2:03:11 Speaker 1 Right.

2:03:11 Speaker 3 I don't want, I don't want to be the person to represent another side. I don't even wanna be the person to represent that there is another side. But, but there-- But we know that there's sharp differences of opinions here. Um, uh, you know, so the que- the question is, the question is... I mean, really, I don't, I don't know that I need to p-pose that as a question. Um, you know, it seems like you, you, you feel that, that really everyone agrees. So I was going to ask, I was going to ask, you know, how-- Y-you spoke about people coming together. How would you come together with people who disagree with you?

2:03:44 Speaker 1 By discussion.

2:03:45 Speaker 3 By discussion.

2:03:46 Speaker 1 That's, that's exa-- No. By and, uh, and, and to give a... I'm, I'm, I'm-- We're there.

2:03:51 Speaker 3 Right.

2:03:51 Speaker 1 We're there. That's not a problem. I-- You know, you have always these extremes, but overall, I'm there, and I've, I've personally, I'm friendly with everyone, Um, but coming together, I mean it deeper. I don't even-- I-- When I say come together, I don't mean make a joint event and avoid certain things. No. That's, that's nice, but that's not, uh-

2:04:15 Speaker 3 No, to get to, to get to the-

2:04:16 Speaker 1 Get together, I mean discussion. Like a husband and wife-

2:04:19 Speaker 3 Get to the

2:04:20 Speaker 1 Uh, uh, ge- if a hus-- Okay, let's put it this way. If a husband and wife don't throw chairs at each other, and they live peacefully in two separate rooms, this is nisht. That's not it.

2:04:28 Speaker 3 You, you're not advocating that every husband and wife should throw chairs at each other.

2:04:32 Speaker 1 What?

2:04:32 Speaker 3 You're not advocating that all husbands and wives should throw chairs.

2:04:33 Speaker 1 No, no. I'm saying it's not enough.

2:04:36 Speaker 3 You're not enough-

2:04:36 Speaker 1 I'm saying it's not enough.

2:04:37 Speaker 3 It's not enough just, just to get, just to get along.

2:04:38 Speaker 1 Just the fact... Yeah. I'm sorry if you got me wrong.

2:04:41 Speaker 3 Yeah. No, the-

2:04:42 Speaker 1 If the husband and wife are je-- are peacefully living in the same house in two separate rooms-

2:04:46 Speaker 3 Right

2:04:46 Speaker 1 ... but they don't throw chairs at each other, that's not enough.

2:04:50 Speaker 3 Right.

2:04:50 Speaker 1 It's like saying for a Yid to be kind and to be nice, it's not enough. Kind and nice. A Yid has to do A husband and wife cannot just be good by not throwing chairs at each other. There has to be discussion, and they have to reconcile. So you're asking how do I view the opposite sides. I, I'm telling you, I view that the opposite sides, it's only meissers Satan that n- that n- that's why-