Ep. 82 // "Wheelchair At The Rebbe's Farbrengen" w/ Tzvi Burston

00:00 Speaker 1 I decided I really wanted to see the Rebbe, and I was all the way in the back. And somehow I got in my head that I'm gonna push everybody out of the way and take the wheelchair and push myself, you know, towards, towards the front, and that's what I did. And people were saying, "Your son moved up." Went... Told my father, "Your son is, uh..." You know, he asked some people around where's my... You know. I remember I got to the front, and I saw the Rebbe go out. The Rebbe, you know, with his hand, you know, gave me a big smile.

00:42 Speaker 2 Welcome to Homesick for Lubavitch, a podcast where we explore Lubavitch identity in the year two thousand and twenty-five. My name is Bentzi Yavetzan, and I will be your host. Let's begin. All righty. We are here in, in Los Angeles for another edition of Homesick for Lubavitch with Reb Zvi Burstein.

01:07 Speaker 1 Wow.

01:07 Speaker 2 Shalom aleichem, shalom aleichem, Zvi.

01:09 Speaker 1 So glad to be on the podcast, Bentzi. I've, uh, you know, followed your work, and, um, you should be blessed with everything good and continue your holy work.

01:21 Speaker 2 Thank you, Zvi. Thank you, Zvi. So a number of people suggested that I have you on, and, uh, the pitch was that you can offer a very different perspective of growing up in Crown Heights-

01:35 Speaker 1 Yeah

01:35 Speaker 2 ... back in those days. Uh, why don't you describe a little bit, um, your story and the situation that you, that you were born with?

01:46 Speaker 1 Well, I was born 43 years ago. Um, uh, I was born in, uh, the Brookdale Hospital in Brooklyn to my amazing parents. Um, when I was born, uh, I was born in 1981, and, um, for some reason, you know, the birth... I was born early, and I was born premature. And my parents didn't think, uh, think anything of it until I was diagnosed with cerebral palsy. Cerebral palsy is a common, uh, neurological disorder that, um, a lot of people have, and it's very common. And but they didn't realize I had it until I was examined by a neurologist at six months of age. That means that I wasn't developing, uh, normally. Like, I wasn't crawling when you're supposed to crawl. I wasn't walking when you're supposed to walk. I wasn't talking when I was supposed to talk. So all the markers were a little off, uh, all the, all the milestones. And yeah, they ... My parents got a little nervous, and they, you know, took me to a neurologist that diagnosed me with this, with this condition. Um, it just so happens that later on I learned that, uh, the monitors that were supposed to monitor me in the hospital when I was born weren't working right.

03:33 Speaker 2 Mm.

03:33 Speaker 1 And, um, and I think the doctor waited too long to deliver me, and as a result, uh, things got a little very touch and go, and I was... And by the time this was, uh, obviously I found out later, but, um, I was losing oxygen. And, you know, and it was a very kind of touch and go, kind of dangerous kind of birth. And in 1981, you know, they don't have the same technology as they have today. So it was, you know, it was... I was in incu- After my birth, I was in an incubator for two weeks. And yeah, and, um, then, then I, uh, after I was diagnosed, I went to, like, these, um, HASC at the time, Hadassah Infant Stimulation programs, you know, so I can have, like, therapy and, uh, and different things. And, um, I went to different schools, and I... And also I have other siblings. I'm one of nine. So, you know, I've-- When I was born, I kind of flipped the script on my family life and-

04:58 Speaker 2 What do you mean?

04:59 Speaker 1 I kind of, like, you know, I was very different and, you know, it took a lot of... For my parents, for our, for my family, it took a... I would imagine it took a lot of getting used to. But interestingly enough is, you know, they say that, you know, they learned also things along the way that ordinarily wouldn't have a regular family. You know, I guess they learned how to be, you know, more sensitive because of me or more, you know, it's, it's, you know, there's a saying that, uh, people with disabilities bring out more in you, in us than we do to them. Yeah.

05:41 Speaker 2 So, so you're growing up in Crown Heights. When do, when do you begin to realize that you're different?

05:47 Speaker 1 Mm.

05:48 Speaker 2 Not that you're different-

05:48 Speaker 1 Uh-

05:48 Speaker 2 ... that your situation is different.

05:50 Speaker 1 I ended up, um, yeah, I, I realized that very early on 'cause people would, you know, stare at me, and I was a little kid, so I didn't know how to explain it to them, and I didn't use the right words, and I, I would get very upset And, you know, I would walk funny down the stairs in Crown Heights, and, uh, the neighborhood kids, some of them would line up and watch, you know? Um, now looking back, I, it would've been amazing to explain it to them and sit down with them and, and start a dialogue with them. But back then, I didn't know how to, how to do that. So I would get upset, but I, you know... I also had a special bike that I would ride, like, with the, with the, with the other kids ar-around the block. I remember, uh, they had gave me an, uh, they, my parents bought me an adaptive bike. And, um, yeah, but, um, I realized very early on that I was very I was different. But-

06:58 Speaker 2 Where did you go to school?

07:00 Speaker 1 So, okay. So I went to school, uh, two different... I went to United Cerebral Palsy of Brooklyn for a, a bunch of years. And then I went to the, it's called W- And it's still around today, called the Henry Viscardi School. Wasn't Jewish. My parents got me tutors on the side for, I went to Cheder. But I went, uh, there for 11 years, and I, and I s- I started there, like, probably second grade, and then I graduated. I graduated high school with a GED. But growing up in Crown Heights also, I had a very unique relationship with the Rebbe. Um, the Rebbe, in his infinite wisdom, kept us busy. Kept-

07:50 Speaker 2 Kept who bu- kept who busy?

07:52 Speaker 1 Kept us, I said, them busy. Uh, we, when I was growing up, I, you know... Now these days, everybody needs a, you know, a gadget in their hands, you know? We didn't have that growing up, you know, back in Crown Heights. But the Rebbe, you know, I was by, even in a wheelchair, and I gotta give credit to my parents. They, they didn't let me, uh, they didn't let, you know... Just because I was in a wheelchair didn't mean I couldn't participate in farbrengens and, and dollars. And I remember . I remember everything. I, for two years in 1990 and 1991, before the Rebbe had the stroke, before , I davened by the Rebbe for two years in the . And I'm still friends with Yanky Klein now. He's a, he's a shaliach in Russia. And his father let me in with my father, and I went down by the Rebbe for two years every Shabbos. And the-

08:56 Speaker 2 You didn't, you didn't get pushed around?

08:59 Speaker 1 I mean, pushed around because it was too crowded?

09:01 Speaker 2 Yeah.

09:02 Speaker 1 No, the was very pr- You know, I was in the . I was very protected.

09:07 Speaker 2 Explain what that means. I wasn't there.

09:09 Speaker 1 Okay. So you had everybody else, and then as you got closer to the Rebbe's, to Rebbe's, uh, shtender-

09:17 Speaker 2 Are you saying when the Rebbe was the, as, was the chazan himself? Or even-

09:20 Speaker 1 No, well-

09:21 Speaker 2 Even, even-

09:21 Speaker 1 Even down

09:22 Speaker 2 ... even when he-

09:23 Speaker 1 When the Rebbe was the chazan himself, I wasn't there.

09:25 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

09:25 Speaker 1 Because it was too crowded.

09:27 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

09:27 Speaker 1 But the Rebbe's bimah, there was benches blocking off where, like, the Rebbe's, you know, immediate area. So you could get in, and then they would block it off with, like, chains and benches so nobody could, you know, nobody that, uh, wasn't allowed there couldn't get in. So-

09:45 Speaker 2 Uh-huh

09:46 Speaker 1 ... I would come, like, 5:00, 5:00 to 10:00.

09:49 Speaker 2 Wait. So, uh, one second. So, so the Rebbe's, the Rebbe's bimah was in the corner, and then what's, what's the ?

09:54 Speaker 1 Oh, after, after. That's what they called it. I don't know why.

09:57 Speaker 2 Oh, it didn't look like a . It looked like a ? What the-

10:00 Speaker 1 To them it did, but that's what they used to call it back then.

10:03 Speaker 2 So there, so there was a space between the chazan and the Rebbe that was empty.

10:06 Speaker 1 Yeah.

10:07 Speaker 2 And the tables-

10:08 Speaker 1 The, the Rebbe, the Rebbe had the steps.

10:10 Speaker 2 Right.

10:11 Speaker 1 His, his bimah, the shtender that-

10:13 Speaker 2 Right

10:13 Speaker 1 ... he's down on. The, that immediate area, they called the .

10:16 Speaker 2 I see.

10:17 Speaker 1 I would-

10:17 Speaker 2 And so who was there? The chazan, then Rabbi ?

10:19 Speaker 1 Yeah, Rabbi . Rabbi would come. He would stand near the . Um, I remember his grandson, Shmi Kramer, used to come. Shmi Kramer's now a shaliach in Mira Loma, I think. And, um, yeah.

10:38 Speaker 2 So they would-

10:39 Speaker 1 He was Shmi Klein

10:40 Speaker 2 ... so they would let you in?

10:41 Speaker 1 Yeah.

10:42 Speaker 2 What was the reasoning for letting you in?

10:43 Speaker 1 'Cause I was friends with Yanky Klein, and Benjamin Klein somehow took a liking to me.

10:49 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

10:50 Speaker 1 And so I was there for, I w- I had the zchus to daven there for two years. And every time the Rebbe went down for, from aftares, the Rebbe come oftare for Shabbos, the Rebbe would look at me, and, you know, with piercing, piercing blue eyes. And, uh, you know. And these are memories that are indelible, you know, in my heart, in my m-m-memory.

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12:38 Speaker 1 It's a very interesting question because, you know, this is the only, this is the only way I know. You know, this is the only way of life I know. Yeah, you know, when I was younger, you know, I was maybe, you know, but now it's, I've come to terms with it and I-

12:57 Speaker 2 I know, but there are stories, uh, I don't know, some of them are true, some of them have grown hair, um, but-

13:02 Speaker 1 You know-

13:02 Speaker 2 But there are stories of like the Rebbe telling a child to get up and walk, and then he walks.

13:07 Speaker 1 No, no, no, I know those, I know some of those stories, not all of them, but that never happened with me. Um-

13:12 Speaker 2 So, so were-- did you, did you hope that it could happen to you?

13:15 Speaker 1 Of course. Of course, you know, as a chasid of the Rebbe, I, you know, I hoped that the Rebbe could, you know, do something, but I never, I never really asked the Rebbe, the Rebbe for a cure. I never, you know. I don't know, I just... Maybe I was young. So, here's another story. This mashke bottle right here, I got in 1988, uh, Shavuos, 1988. So my, my father had this custom that he would take us for Koich HaBracha, uh, twice a year, once after Zos Moadim, and once after S- after Shavuos. So, like, twice a year. So, I was starting a school in this, um, non, even non-Jewish school, but the, the special thing about that was, is that my parents had to fight with the Board of Education to get me funded to go to the school. And they... It was a big, uh, challenging fight. I don't know all the, you know, particulars, but it was either that, like the school district, go to a private school, or go to public school where I don't know what would've happened to me, like religiously, I'm saying. So, so it was the, I think it was the week before I started. So as was customary, my father took me with the wheelchair, took me up. I got the Koich HaBracha, my father got, and then Rabbi Groner motioned to my father to bring me back. And then the Rebbe , the Rebbe didn't say anything, but the Rebbe pulled out from his pocket the,

15:08 Speaker 1 the small mashke bottle. So after analyzing and, and, and, you know, going back and forth, what did the Rebbe mean? We finally figured out that this was a bracha for the new school that I was starting the week after Shavuos, you know. And then since my father was a teacher, we made a farbrengen the next, uh, the next day in his class. He was the first Kurder Rebbe in Ontario at the time. And, um, and the word got out that it, the word got out in Crown Heights that I had this bottle. We had to use the contents of the bottle, obviously, before that Pesach, you know. So I, um, people would come over to my house for brachos, but I would always tell them, "It's not me, it's the Rebbe. I'm a shliach of the Rebbe to give the brachos from this bottle." You know. And one couple came. They were married for 17 years, no children. The next, after they came for the, for, mm, a bracha, they had triplets the following year.

16:27 Speaker 2 What bracha were you looking for?

16:31 Speaker 1 What bracha? I wanted... See, it's, it was very hard, you know. When you're not, when you're going to a non-Jewish school, uh, it's very hard to like, you know, remain frum, and I'm still frum today. What kind of bracha I want- I wanted? That everything should go well. That I shouldn't, uh... Even though it was a private school, I, I was like kind of a shliach there, unofficial. I gave a matzos, you know, every year before Pesach. I, you know, I tried to connect to a lot of people.

17:16 Speaker 2 What I'm trying to understand is y- was there, was there no sense, people asking the Rebbe for brachos to, to, to fix the biggest problems. Why didn't you feel like your problem could be fixed as well?

17:30 Speaker 1 I, you know, I was very young. I was 12 when Gimel Chametz happened.

17:35 Speaker 2 Yeah, but a kid, a kid at a young age wants to be better, wants to play with his friends.

17:39 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. I alw- I always played with... You know, it's funny because even though I, I liked the kids on the block, I always gravitated towards adults. I always rathered my, you know, conversation with adults than the kids. But I don't, you know, I don't remember why I didn't s- ask, ask anything of the Rebbe. I remember on my birthday, in my broken Yiddish, I would ask the Rebbe, tell the Rebbe it was my birthday, and the Rebbe would, uh, you know, it was my birthday.

18:12 Speaker 2 Oh, by dollars?

18:13 Speaker 1 By dollars. So I would practice for a week, you know. I have this many ｡You know, my broken Yiddish and going, you know, going from the Rebbe. Um, I re- you know, that's a good question. I never was asked that question before. What did I want from the Rebbe? Or a berakhah, what kind of berakhah I wanted? I don't know. I just, I was so used to my, my challenge that, I don't know, I just never, I never really thought about it till now.

18:48 Speaker 2 Interesting.

18:49 Speaker 1 You know? I, I always, I always, you know, I always thought this is the way it was, and I have, you know, I'm gonna m- do the best I can with the challenges, you know, that I have. Y- you know? And keep in mind also, there was no... When I was growing up with Rex, there was no friendship circle. Friendship circle's now global. Every state, every country has some sort of friendship circle. But in my day, there was, there was really nothing, and I, I remember my parents begging, like, Lubavitch Shimon to set up something on every Sunday maybe, or, you know, very rarely or maybe once a month we would have a special program for maybe an hour on Sundays, you know? But I have people tell me now, "Oh, I saw you in 770 when you were a kid with a wheelchair." And I'll tell you a funny, a funny story. My father brought me to Farbrengen. Somehow in my head, I s- it was very crowded. I for, you know, don't know which Farbrengen it was. But I decided I really wanted to see the Rebbe, and I was all the way in the back. And, and somehow I got in my head that I'm gonna push everybody out of the way and take the wheelchair and push myself, you know, towards, towards the front. And that's what I did. And people were saying, "Your son moved up." Went... Told my father, "Your son is, uh, you know, he..." Asked some people

20:32 Speaker 1 around where's my s- you know? And, uh, I remember I got to the front, and I saw the Rebbe go out. And the Rebbe, you know, with his hands, you know, gave me a big smile. Um, there-- For me, for me, the Rebbe meant everything.

20:57 Speaker 2 What did Mashiach mean to you in those days?

21:01 Speaker 1 Mashiach. Mm. Well-

21:06 Speaker 2 'Cause a lot of people, uh, when you were growing up, that was certainly-

21:09 Speaker 1 Yeah, that was-

21:10 Speaker 2 ... a big topic

21:11 Speaker 1 ... that was the topic.

21:12 Speaker 2 For, for a lot of people, it was an abstract thing. Right? A lot of Lubavitchers will tell you that they d- uh, the Rebbe wants Mashiach, so I want Mashiach, but life's good, back then.

21:21 Speaker 1 Yeah.

21:22 Speaker 2 What about you?

21:23 Speaker 1 Um, sometimes it was confusing because I remember one rally, the Rebbe, I don't know what prompted the Rebbe to say this. Obviously, the Rebbe is on a much higher level, you know, than us, and maybe, you know, he had Rokeach Yiddish. I remember distinctly as a kid, my r- my brother, I would go to all the rallies, and remember the, you know, the, the big orator, amazing JJ, Rabbi JJ Hess, and all the... And the Rebbe said, I remember this clearly, the Mashiach's coming tonight. So as a kid, what do you... I remember going on, going home, telling my mother we have to, you know, Mashiach's coming tonight. I-- If the Rebbe said something, you know, you believed it.

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23:16 Speaker 1 Yeah, of course. Everybody says, you know? The people were, you know, they're not gonna be in wheelchairs anymore.

23:22 Speaker 2 Right.

23:22 Speaker 1 Or, you know-

23:23 Speaker 2 But for most people, that's an abstract thing. Most people don't think about it-

23:26 Speaker 1 Maybe

23:26 Speaker 2 ... in a real way.

23:27 Speaker 1 Maybe. No, but for me, I couldn't wait till Mashiach comes.

23:30 Speaker 2 Right.

23:30 Speaker 1 You know? 'Cause somebody told me you're gonna not, you know, I'm gonna be free, you know?

23:36 Speaker 2 Somebody told you that?

23:37 Speaker 1 A lot of people told me that, you know? We're not gonna have disabilities anymore. We're not gonna, you know... Every- everything's gonna be amazing, you know? Uh, yeah. I mean, kids, kids tell other kids certain things also, you know? Kids told me that, "Oh, you probably can't wait till Mashiach comes." I went to 770 a lot when I was younger. But kids, kids would also say the craziest things.

24:04 Speaker 2 Because well, kids are kids.

24:06 Speaker 1 You know?

24:07 Speaker 2 Yeah.

24:08 Speaker 1 So Mashiach was explained to me as a kid, "Okay, we're gonna go on a cloud." You know?

24:15 Speaker 2 Right.

24:16 Speaker 1 Of course, wow. You know?

24:18 Speaker 2 Yeah, but that's the thing. For a lot of people, it's just fantastic.

24:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, it, it-

24:21 Speaker 2 For you, for you, it's like, "I can get out of my wheelchair."

24:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean-

24:25 Speaker 2 I mean-

24:25 Speaker 1 I-

24:26 Speaker 2 Let, let me ask you if it, if it... I hope it's not being too intrusive.

24:29 Speaker 1 No, uh, uh, yeah.

24:30 Speaker 2 Yeah. When, when you dream at night-

24:33 Speaker 1 Yeah

24:33 Speaker 2 ... do you, do you ever dream of yourself not in a wheelchair?

24:38 Speaker 1 So there's something interesting.

24:40 Speaker 2 Yeah.

24:40 Speaker 1 So whenever I do my... I'm not into meditation and all this, but whenever I close my eyes and think of myself, I imagine myself running-

24:52 Speaker 2 Mamish?

24:53 Speaker 1 ... with an iPod. Like, you know those ads, you know?

24:56 Speaker 2 Yeah, sure.

24:56 Speaker 1 With the-

24:56 Speaker 2 The AirPods

24:57 Speaker 1 ... AirPods and the-

24:59 Speaker 2 Going for a jog.

24:59 Speaker 1 Yeah, going for like, on a beach and with the sunglasses, and the guy is ripped. You know what I mean? I, I imagine myself like that.

25:07 Speaker 2 And when you... And do you dream sometimes that like you're, you're f- you're, you're running, and then you're-

25:12 Speaker 1 Sure. Yeah, every time I, you know, close my for sometimes.

25:16 Speaker 2 Right.

25:16 Speaker 1 I dream myself like that. Yeah. Yeah. And it's very interesting.

25:21 Speaker 2 That's very interesting.

25:22 Speaker 1 It's, it's... I mean, it's interesting to me. I don't know.

25:24 Speaker 2 No, it's fascinating actually for me also.

25:27 Speaker 1 You know? Um, it's, it's interesting because somebody once told me, he's like, you know, a friend of mine once told me, he's like, "Gee." And, uh, he's like, "Oh, you like every... Like, you're in a wheelchair, so you're very slow." I'm like, "No, I like everything fast." Fast questions, fast cars, you know? I like music that's fast.

25:50 Speaker 2 Your, your mind, your mind is fast.

25:52 Speaker 1 Yes.

25:52 Speaker 2 Your bo- your body has its-

25:54 Speaker 1 Right

25:54 Speaker 2 ... limitations.

25:55 Speaker 1 You know? I like fast wheelchairs, uh, fast cars, you know?

25:59 Speaker 2 You dream of fast.

26:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. My mind thinks fast.

26:04 Speaker 2 Really?

26:05 Speaker 1 Yeah. Like if I have to be somewhere, I'll, I'll... I don't know. You never observe me on the street, but I run. I, I go with the cars and

26:14 Speaker 2 I see. Huh.

26:15 Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm, I'm... You know, s- it's funny because I-

26:19 Speaker 2 So did... So when you... So when you were... This was when you were younger too, yes?

26:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. Wanted everything fast.

26:26 Speaker 2 Your ankle's falling off?

26:27 Speaker 1 Cars, you know. Sorry.

26:29 Speaker 2 I'll go fix.

26:32 Speaker 1 Yeah. All good.

26:33 Speaker 2 So, okay, to me it's just, it's just fascinating. What, what's a, what's a boy in a wheelchair in Crown Heights in 5700 dreaming about?

26:45 Speaker 1 I mean-

26:46 Speaker 2 'Cause-

26:47 Speaker 1 Of course I got, of course I don't want, I don't wanna misguide you and say I wasn't jealous of my siblings going with their friends whenever they wanted. For me, it was a whole project to get down the stairs.

27:01 Speaker 2 Right.

27:02 Speaker 1 You know, to get out of the house. When it snowed in Crown Heights, I wouldn't go out of the house for two weeks 'cause the snow would be piled up at my door. You know?

27:09 Speaker 2 Right.

27:10 Speaker 1 And, uh, my father would have to shovel, or whoever had to shovel just to get me up and down the stairs, you know? But when I was out, also swimming actually made me... One of the first times I, I was swimming, I was able to walk in the water.

27:32 Speaker 2 Right.

27:32 Speaker 1 It's such a freeing-

27:34 Speaker 2 It felt magical.

27:35 Speaker 1 Yeah. It felt like, "Wow, I have no problems."

27:39 Speaker 2 Huh.

27:39 Speaker 1 Right now. I'm saying for this moment, you know? Walking in the water, you know. We had swimming in my school like every week in elementary school. High school, they s- they s- they focused more on aca- academics. But every week I was able to swim in the pool.

28:00 Speaker 2 After Chabad another, did you feel like you had a different understanding of the Rebbe's matzav than other people, given that you were deeply in tune with the limitations of, of, of, of the body?

28:14 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, I was very young. Keep in mind I was very young, and I-

28:18 Speaker 2 Yes

28:18 Speaker 1 ... had a lot of my own stuff going on. But now I realize the Rebbe was disabled.

28:25 Speaker 2 Right.

28:25 Speaker 1 You know? And I re- I wasn't there, but I remember, um, when the Rebbe wanted something, and it was, I think it was Yud Tes Kislev.

28:37 Speaker 2 Yeah.

28:38 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe was on the porch for like seven hours.

28:41 Speaker 2 Yeah.

28:42 Speaker 1 Of course, I felt bad for the Rebbe. I, you know, I was crying. I mean, what could the Rebbe-

28:46 Speaker 2 Oh, you, you were there?

28:47 Speaker 1 No, I wasn't there, but I-

28:49 Speaker 2 Heard about it

28:49 Speaker 1 ... heard about it, and I have seen videos. Yeah. I mean, for seven hours. And I, I have friends that communicate with a, a board. You know, like a communication board. They point with their head what they want.

29:07 Speaker 2 Right.

29:08 Speaker 1 So for the Rebbe also, in front of thousands of people, you know, I felt so bad for the Rebbe. You know? What could the Rebbe possibly want?

29:21 Speaker 2 Hmm.

29:21 Speaker 1 You know? And, and I don't think in those days, Chabad another was 1994. These things, like these communication devices were just popping up.

29:32 Speaker 2 Right.

29:32 Speaker 1 So they didn't have a, you know. Maybe they'd had it and we never saw it, but they didn't bring it out for the Rebbe.

29:39 Speaker 2 Right. No, but I, I wonder how many people in Crown Heights even thought of it in those terms. You know?

29:44 Speaker 1 I, I don't think many, many people.

29:46 Speaker 2 No.

29:47 Speaker 1 And you gotta keep in mind that a lot of people, and I thank my... Sorry.

29:52 Speaker 2 No.

29:52 Speaker 1 I thank my parents every day that I wasn't sheltered. There was a lot of people in Crown Heights I didn't even know were disabled because their parents never, never took them out.

30:03 Speaker 2 Uh, you're saying, you're saying your parents let you live your life.

30:06 Speaker 1 Yeah.

30:06 Speaker 2 They didn't hide you.

30:08 Speaker 1 Okay. I wasn't in , I wasn't in 770 during Tishrei, during the washing machine days, you know? You know, 'cause it was too dangerous.

30:17 Speaker 2 Were, were you, were you upset about that?

30:19 Speaker 1 Of course. You know, I wanted to see the Rebbe dance.

30:22 Speaker 2 A kafes.

30:22 Speaker 1 Yeah.

30:23 Speaker 2 You missed a kafes, basically.

30:24 Speaker 1 Yeah. The one re- a kafes I remember was when the Rebbe was on the porch already. It was very different, you know?

30:31 Speaker 2 Right. Right. It was le- le- less-

30:32 Speaker 1 You know

30:32 Speaker 2 ... less pushy probably.

30:33 Speaker 1 Yeah. And I, I was able to... I think I was somewhere across from the Rebbe, so I was able to see the Rebbe, but it was very different. But I-

30:44 Speaker 2 So, so did you feel, did you feel like you were inside Lubavitch or outside Lubavitch?

30:51 Speaker 1 A very interesting question. I think I was in the middle of two worlds, the secular and, uh, and Lubavitch. Whenever I would go ... to nights, you know, with the bus and, um, after school, yeah. When you're coming, when you're, when you're reaching 770, and you feel this, even though, you know, you feel this awesomeness, you know? And yeah, I was, yeah, I feel s- you know, that I was stuck between two worlds, and yeah, but I always had, you know, I always knew what the... You know, I guess I always knew that, that I was watching or, you know. I always had this, this thing in the back of my mind, you know? You can't cross certain lines.

31:46 Speaker 2 Right. But, uh, s- for so many Lubavitchers, being a Lubavitchers, being together with other Lubavitchers, right? And living the life like everybody else lives and going to-

31:53 Speaker 1 So on Shabbos, I was together in 770.

31:55 Speaker 2 Right. But you're going to school the whole week that's different than them and with kids that they wouldn't, you know.

32:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. I... So I had to... So it's funny, in my school that was totally secular, I had the distinction of having the largest family in the school.

32:12 Speaker 2 Right.

32:13 Speaker 1 You know, 'cause I had, you know, in our own large family. And you know, every time my mother would have another, Baruch Hashem, another child, they would make fun of me. Like, "Oh, wow. Is there room for you in your house?" You know?

32:30 Speaker 2 Right.

32:30 Speaker 1 Um, I also went... I also felt, I'll be honest, I felt bad for myself, but also I went to non-Lubavitch camps.

32:40 Speaker 2 Right.

32:40 Speaker 1 That were terrible for me. I'm not gonna name names 'cause-

32:44 Speaker 2 Right.

32:46 Speaker 1 And I thought these camps were similar to CGI, you know, Montreal, New York. No, they were horrible. Th- these ca- these counselors, they were like 16. They didn't even know how to take care of somebody with disabled, you know? So they would put us to bed like, yeah, at 7:30, and like, I'm like, "Where is the night activity? Where's the, where's the spirit? Where's the, you know, bunk competitions and..." You know? Yeah. But I, but I also wanted to get away from home. That's why I went. And I met some good people there. I'm not gonna say not, but I was, it was devoid of... Yeah, I had some fun with friends-

33:31 Speaker 2 Right

33:31 Speaker 1 ... that I met, but it wasn't on the level of, "Wow, I'm gonna have bunk competition. I'm gonna have an overnight," and then, you know.

33:39 Speaker 2 Right.

33:39 Speaker 1 "I'm gonna be like everybody else." So I have to tell you, and I'm gonna say this, with Chaim Shovbrook, I used to go to his house, like, very often.

33:52 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

33:52 Speaker 1 And, and his mother, Chanchi, always home. She took me out. She took me out on Kingston. She took me out to the pizza shop 'cause back then their, her brother-in-law, Yosef Brook, uh, owned the pizza shop.

34:08 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

34:09 Speaker 1 You know? This is back in the day. But she, and I owe her a lot.

34:16 Speaker 2 Huh.

34:16 Speaker 1 And Chaim Shol, I owe him a lot, and I owe the whole Brook family a lot 'cause they accepted me with open arms.

34:24 Speaker 2 Yes, .

34:25 Speaker 1 And, and, uh, Chanchi, you know, she, she was ahead of her. She was ahead of the time. What can I tell you? She, she, she... And it wasn't a burden for her. It was a pleasure.

34:39 Speaker 2 Hmm.

34:40 Speaker 1 You know, I never wanted to... And this is the, this is the issue. I never wanna be a burden on people, you know?

34:46 Speaker 2 Right.

34:47 Speaker 1 You know? But Chanchi made me feel like part of the family. My whole life, I'm trying to be like... I'm very approachable to people.

34:55 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

34:56 Speaker 1 And I like explaining myself, and I, I enjoy... I love people. I like going out, and I-

35:03 Speaker 2 Right

35:03 Speaker 1 ... studied social work a little bit. That didn't pan out the way I wanted it.

35:06 Speaker 2 Right.

35:07 Speaker 1 But just know that I'm very comfortable with myself, and I, and I owe my family a lot and, you know. Just to be accepted, it means a lot, you know?

35:20 Speaker 2 It sh- Look, it sh- it shines through. It shines through. I, I can't imagine anybody... I don't get the feeling from you that you're asking anybody for the quote, unquote, "Rachmanus."

35:28 Speaker 1 No. 100%.

35:29 Speaker 2 And I don't think anybody's-

35:30 Speaker 1 It's-

35:30 Speaker 2 ... gonna feel that.

35:32 Speaker 1 It's-

35:32 Speaker 2 Uh, it's... Look, it's a, it's a, it's a simchas hachaim that is very hard for me to, to understand.

35:40 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

35:41 Speaker 2 It's, it's, it's, it's something that's gonna take me a long time to unpack and figure it out.

35:45 Speaker 1 No, I wouldn't blame you. There are moments that, you know, there are-

35:48 Speaker 2 It doesn't make, it doesn't make a difference. The fact that you can have moments like this is, is to me very hard to understand. Not that I don't believe it, but it's something that would take me a long time to figure out.

35:59 Speaker 1 I guess because, uh, yeah, it's because that's who, this is who I am. It's my essence, you know? Yeah, of course, you know.

36:09 Speaker 2 And-

36:10 Speaker 1 You want everything, you know.

36:13 Speaker 2 But there, there's no need to take away from whatever work you have to put in to, to find it within you. I'm s- I'm, I'm sure, I'm sure there, I'm sure there are times where you could, where you could, uh, go the other way.

36:24 Speaker 1 Yes.

36:24 Speaker 2 And it's a choice.

36:25 Speaker 1 I'm not telling you that there aren't moments that I don't have right now.

36:28 Speaker 2 But the, the fact that right now you're like this means that you chose to be like this.

36:31 Speaker 1 Yeah.

36:31 Speaker 2 You chose to be happy.

36:33 Speaker 1 I choose happiness. That's all.

36:34 Speaker 2 Yeah. So it's, it's a, it's a powerful, powerful lesson. I wanted to ask you, just to wrap up.

36:39 Speaker 1 Yeah.

36:40 Speaker 2 Um, I wanted to ask you to, just to wrap up, what is the What would you say, what would you say has changed for you over the past, uh, 30-some years in terms of, in terms of being a Lubavitcher with this challenge? What would you say has changed?

37:07 Speaker 1 You mean like where's my right now? Where's my, my-

37:12 Speaker 2 No, no, I'm not asking for the kind of . More in terms of dealing with, um, a disability. W- what, what, has, has anything changed in the way that you see yourself or the way that you see yourself vis-à-vis the community?

37:27 Speaker 1 Well, I will tell you-

37:28 Speaker 2 Has it become, has it become easier or has it become harder to identify with the community?

37:33 Speaker 1 I will tell you right now, like, in Los Angeles itself, in my shul, I go to a minyan every day.

37:41 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

37:41 Speaker 1 In the, in Crown Heights, I wouldn't really go to minyan every day. I would, of course, put on tefillin at home, but it's much easier to get around here.

37:52 Speaker 2 Right, sure.

37:53 Speaker 1 And it's, it's every morning I try to daven with a minyan. Yeah, and, you know, sometimes when I'm not in shul for two, two days, I get a text, "Where are you?" You know? So people, people notice me, and I have my, my minyan that I'm part of. Yeah, so in here in LA, you know, I've, you know, I have friends that I hang out every Shabbos with. We, we frum ring, you know. Um, I remember the first Kimhi Thomas I was here, the gabbai of the shul asked me if I wanted to be aliyah. You know, in 770 it's who you know and who, how you know them. I wasn't used to, like, uh, "Do you need an aliyah?" Give him a da'amos.

38:45 Speaker 2 Right.

38:45 Speaker 1 I'm like, "Sure." You know? It was always like, who am I, who am I gonna know in, in 770 that I could get an aliyah?

38:53 Speaker 2 So you feel more, you feel more included?

38:55 Speaker 1 Sure. Yeah. Here, yeah. I remember Rabbi Rich, alav ha-shalom, like the Rav's father now, he would make sure that I would hold the Sefer Torah on Simchat Torah, you know.

39:08 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

39:09 Speaker 1 He would give me one. Yeah, and, uh, sure, I feel, feel very included now. And yeah, in, in 770, yes, I had my, my friends that I, I, um, you know, hung out with in the back of 770, but it's, it wasn't, uh, it's not the same. But yeah, I feel more connected here than maybe even after Kimhi Thomas. I mean, when the Rebbe was alive, I felt connected to the Rebbe, obviously. You know? And the genius of the Rebbe, in my opinion, was that he made you feel like you're the only person in the world. Whenever you went for dollars, it wasn't like, "I'm too busy. Here's a dollar." You know?

40:01 Speaker 2 So, so you're s- you're telling me that before Kimhi Thomas you felt connected to the Rebbe, but not so much to the community?

40:08 Speaker 1 Not really.

40:09 Speaker 2 But now you feel connected to the community?

40:11 Speaker 1 No, there was, there was, there was friends that we went to-

40:16 Speaker 2 Right

40:16 Speaker 1 ... shul together.

40:17 Speaker 2 Individuals.

40:17 Speaker 1 Yeah.

40:17 Speaker 2 But you said you didn't feel so much in place with the community.

40:20 Speaker 1 Community, no.

40:21 Speaker 2 But now you feel connected-

40:22 Speaker 1 Yeah

40:22 Speaker 2 ... with the community.

40:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. That's that's very honest.

40:27 Speaker 2 Very interesting.

40:27 Speaker 1 Yeah. And, you know, it's feels good to be connected, you know?

40:34 Speaker 2 It does feel good to be connected.

40:36 Speaker 1 And like, if I'm not praying shofor Malchut for two days, I'll get a text, "Where are you? Are you okay?" I'm like-

40:43 Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah. So you got a-

40:45 Speaker 1 "My tefillins."

40:48 Speaker 2 Yeah. It, it, it feels good to be connected. So anyway, Tzvi, thank you very much for this time.

40:52 Speaker 1 No, thank you.

40:54 Speaker 2 Thank you very much.

40:54 Speaker 1 Thank you.

40:54 Speaker 2 It's a pleasure, pleasure-

40:55 Speaker 1 Thank you for being with us

40:56 Speaker 2 ... pleasure meeting you. And to-

40:58 Speaker 1 Likewise. Likewise

40:59 Speaker 2 ... thank you. And thank you, Chaim Shaul, for the idea, another friend.

41:02 Speaker 1 Thank you, Chaim Shaul.

41:03 Speaker 2 And, uh, and-

41:04 Speaker 1 You're doing amazing work

41:05 Speaker 2 ... and, uh, continue to inspire people with your simchas haim and your positive outlook to life.

41:12 Speaker 1 L'chaim.

41:15 Speaker 2 The music for this podcast comes from the album Repentance Doors by Oren Dror and Nadav Bachar and is used with their permission.