Ep. 65 // "I Can Tell the Rebbe Anything" w/ R' Mendel Posner

00:00 Speaker 1 I was a teenager, I was in New York, and I, and I was in Yechidas, 'cause I remember how that happened responded. And I told the Rebbe that it's much more comfortable to get on the subway and take off my yarmulke and go to Central Park and not wear yarmulke such a macha'im. Now, I wasn't telling him to... Not rebelling or putting a, a, a whatever, something in his side. I don't know. Are you my Rebbe or you're not my Rebbe? So if you're my Rebbe, I could tell you anything.

00:47 Speaker 2 Welcome to Homesick for Lubavitch, a podcast where we explore Lubavitch identity in the year two thousand and twenty-five. My name is Bentzi Hafetz, and I will be your host. Let's begin. Alrighty, we are here for another episode in Homesick for Lubavitch. Um, we're here in Atlanta or a suburb of Atlanta with Rabbi Mendel Posner, originally from Nashville, Tennessee. Thank you very much for making the time and rearranging your schedule. Uh, there was a quite a hefty delay on my end, um, getting in today. So thank you very much. And to all those listening, um, to all those listening, please subscribe, like, and do all the good things on the internet that helps this podcast flourish. If you'd like to support the podcast, please visit hflpodcast.com/donate. Anyway, Rabbi Mendel, pleasure to meet you.

01:52 Speaker 1 Thank you for having me.

01:53 Speaker 2 We spoke on the phone quite a bit a couple days ago. Um, and you have quite the story, that's for sure. So let's, let's, let's, let's, uh, rewind it a bit and begin and, and, and start from the beginning, or as close to the beginning as we can.

02:11 Speaker 1 Okay. So, um, after the previous Rebbe passed away and the Rebbe became Rebbe, he said that your first son should be named Yosef Yitzchak after the previous Rebbe. And my father's name was Yitzchak Zalman, so he couldn't name that.

02:37 Speaker 2 For, for those listening, your father was Rav Zalman Posner, the famous Rav Zalman Posner.

02:41 Speaker 1 Yeah. So, um, so the... What people would do, what a lot of people would do is they would ask the Rebbe what to do, and he'd usually say, uh, "Menachem Mendel." And so, um, Rabbi Kroner, Rabbi Oukroner told the Rebbe that when you say, when you say that, they think you're naming your ch- their child after you and only spar them to that. So the Rebbe answered that when I, when they named their child Menachem Mendel, I'm a Sfat, and then I go back to being Ashkenaz.

03:27 Speaker 2 He said that?

03:29 Speaker 1 Yeah. I don't know if he said Ashkenaz, but he said, "Yeah, I'm a Sfat, he, when he names the child, and then I go back."

03:37 Speaker 2 I thought, I thought they were naming after Tzaddik. That's how it was going on.

03:43 Speaker 1 Um, so when I was born, the Rebbe told my father that he should name me after whom I'm named after. He didn't say Menachem Mendel.

03:57 Speaker 2 So after the Tzaddik?

04:00 Speaker 1 After the Tzaddik, right. And I'm, I'm, I'm sure there are others, I don't know any others, but I'm sure there are. You know, 'cause they say that you're never the first in anything, so someone else before you. Um, but that's what it was. That was the first time. Um, the second time that I remember, I was around six years old, and my grandfather, who was Rabbi Sholom Aharon Kazarnowsky, sat behind the Rebbe. He was the one with a long white beard. And he sat just to the left of the Rebbe behind. And so I sat on his lap, and it looked like there were a thousand people there, although it couldn't have held that many people. Um, and at one point, um, my grandfather told me to go to the Rebbe and, and say l'chaim. I knew very little Yiddish at the time. I knew, "Vas makhstu?" How, how are you? I knew, "Vas is dein nomen?" What is your name? And maybe a few other words, but that was it. And so I went to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe knew my name 'cause he named me. So he said to me, "Vir uf minder?" And I had... I just shrugged. I just stood there and shrugged. I had no idea what he was saying. And he asked me again. I go like that, you know, shrug again. And my grandfather said, "What is the Rebbe asking you?" And I said, "I, I don't know." So the Rebbe turned around and to my grandfather,

05:53 Speaker 1 my grandfather leaned o- over or moved over towards the Rebbe, and he, he asked What, what he was saying, and he said, "Vu ruf? Um, you know, what is his name?" So my grandfather translated for me, and I said, "Menachem Mendel."

06:15 Speaker 2 How was your grandfather's English? Was it good?

06:17 Speaker 1 Yeah, it was very good. I'm sure it was very good, otherwise I, I wouldn't understand him. So yeah, it's very... He'd been in America a while, since early '20s.

06:29 Speaker 2 Right.

06:30 Speaker 1 Um, so my sister, Vivi Darin, who you's, um, interviewed, she has the memory in the family. She could tell you when... Everyone's got pittle talent. She could tell you.

06:42 Speaker 2 No, she said that he came years earlier.

06:43 Speaker 1 I think '23.

06:44 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

06:47 Speaker 1 Um, and then when I was 11, I had finished the school in Nashville. My fa- father had started a school.

06:57 Speaker 2 The, one second. Did the rabbi follow up with you after he asked your name? Did he follow up? Was there a follow-up to that question?

07:02 Speaker 1 I, I don't think so.

07:04 Speaker 2 Okay.

07:07 Speaker 1 Um-

07:07 Speaker 2 So 11 years old-

07:09 Speaker 1 Sure

07:09 Speaker 2 ... 11 years old, you're in Nashville.

07:11 Speaker 1 Right. So my father had a day school, and in fact, my father asked the rabbi if it should be a rabbi-taught day school, and the rabbi said, "No, it should not."

07:20 Speaker 2 Hmm.

07:21 Speaker 1 I don't know if the rabbi said it, it should be Torah Moshe, or my father asked should it be Torah Moshe, but that's what it turned out to be. And sure he was, uh, he came down first as to be rov of the shul, and so it was an Ashkenaz shul. Um, so my father had school kindergarten through sixth grade, and there was no other school to go to, so we asked the rabbi where I should go, and he said to go to Pittsburgh, 'cause my father's father had yeshiva in Pittsburgh.

08:01 Speaker 2 You're the oldest, right? Uh-

08:02 Speaker 1 Second oldest. Vivi Darin is the oldest.

08:04 Speaker 2 But you're the oldest boy.

08:06 Speaker 1 I'm the oldest boy.

08:07 Speaker 2 Okay.

08:09 Speaker 1 Um, so in Nashville, I was the only boy in Nashville that had to wear yarmulke in the street. There were no other Frum families. Um, I, I didn't have those words back then, but I guess you could call it a yarmulke trauma. Of course, every time we'd walk in the street, like to go to shul on Shabbos or Yom Tov, they'd be screaming out the windows, um, uh, not the most pleasant things.

08:45 Speaker 2 Hmm.

08:47 Speaker 1 Um, so then I went to yeshiva in, in Pittsburgh. I was behind everybody else because none of my friends had a father really they could learn with. Um, the interesting thing that... Well, two things, 'cause people ask, you know, "What kind of shlichus did you have when you were six years old or five years old or 10 years old?"

09:16 Speaker 2 Hmm.

09:16 Speaker 1 No other Frum people, so they gave me a nickname. I was called the little rabbi.

09:23 Speaker 2 Yeah.

09:23 Speaker 1 And adults would come to me with their problems, and I would sit and listen for as long as they talked, and I'd nod. I'd look them in the eye, and, "Your son is so smart." Of course, I didn't understand anything they said. I'd understand the words, but I couldn't really help them with their problems. Um, and there were probably around eight couples, maybe eight to 10 couples, that both the husband and wife were survivors of the concentration camps, and the way my father taught everyone, including us kids, was everything was b'ahava, with love. There was no fear. It wasn't even a word. And I found out when I, uh, got a little older when I was in yeshiva, they would use terms I didn't know the terms, but the behavior, well, that's simple. Everybody does that. Um, so for example, um, the purpose of, of everyone's purpose in life is, "La'asios li s'barech tirbeid achteinim," that you should make for God in this world a home, meaning that wherever you go, whatever you do, God is at home in your life. So he's never ashamed of you. He's proud of you. He loves you. There was no fear of God. Why would I fear God? He loves me. He's my father. Fear is negative, okay? We learned early on that, um, a mitzvah g'deres mitzvah. A mitzvah follows a mitzvah, meaning something that's positive leads to something that's positive, and something negative leads to something negative. So, and it never says anywhere that a negative

11:32 Speaker 1 thought will lead to positive behavior. That's impossible. So why teach people negative? There's only positive. And what it did, like for all of these families that, or these couples that were in concentration camps and their children after them, none of them ever had a complaint to God. None. There was such a deep love, and you'd ask them... Some of them would talk about life, and you'd ask them, "Why don't you have any complaints?" And it was like, God has a plan. I can't tell you what it is, but I have a purpose in life because I'm living. What could be better than that? So it's better... My father taught people it's better to focus on positive. And I'll give you a, a fast example when... I can't do anything fast, but I'll try. Um-

12:40 Speaker 2 Well, no, no rush here.

12:42 Speaker 1 So when, um, whenever I had break, like vacation, or if I'd come for Yom Tov, like come for Pesach or Sukkot, whatever, um, my father always said, "Come, let's go learn." And I'd ask him, "What would you like to learn?" He said, "Well, look at the bookcase and pick whatever you like, and we'll learn that." And he never told me, "Oh, that's too hard for you." Like in yeshiva, they'd say, "That's too hard. Too hard." No, if you know how to do something, nothing is hard. Okay. Plus, lucky for me, um, he taught us how to live Judaism, not terms. Terms are meaningless because for me, growing up in Nashville without any frum friends and without having a life, most of my friends, all of my friends, um, you're like, you're with me, so, um, since you, you're from Singapore, so you had the same experience. I, I, um, when I went to Montreal at 13, I know I'm segwaying, and I do it, so you'll bring me back. But, um, we were sitting on a bed or in the dorm, and one of the guys asked me if there were any frum people in Nashville. And I said, "Well, it depends how you define frum." "Well, how many people keep Shabbos?" I said, "Well, it depends how you define keep." And he said, "What do you mean?" I says, "Well, let's say electricity." "So is there anybody that doesn't put lights on on Shabbos?" And I said, "Possibly." "Was there anybody that doesn't

14:35 Speaker 1 watch TV on Shabbos?" "Probably not." I would say, "What about kosher?" "Well, it depends." I didn't know who ate out because that wasn't a discussion. We didn't eat out, so it wasn't even brought up, so I have no idea who ate out. But I'm sure if they went off to college, you know, the... They weren't living in Nashville, they probably didn't eat out. Um, then, of course, they asked the regular questions I heard when you spoke with my sister. Of course, the first thing they asked me, "Where is Tennessee?" And I said, "Well, it's in the South." And they said, "Oh, what's the climate like?" And I grew up on the National... with National Geographic. The climate. I lived in Tennessee. It's called the weather. And it's like, you know, it's warmer than it is in New York. But, you know. And, um, what language do these Jews speak? And just one, one, one at the, one point, someone asked me, "So you're from the South. Do you have slaves?" And I was like, "We do, but they have their own, own housing, and we don't whip them." They said, "Oh, so you have a plantation?" And I said, "Yes. How did you know?" And then asked me, "What do you grow on the plantation?" And I was like, I wasn't ready for this whole conversation. And I said, "Well, we grow cotton and tobacco," 'cause I just couldn't, you know, couldn't think of what it was. They said, "Well, what's tobacco?" I said, "Oh,

16:22 Speaker 1 in English, they call it tobacco." And then when we finished with the conversation, I said, "I'm just joking." They said, "It's okay if you own slaves." And I was like, "Okay, whatever." Um, so it was just so different. Everything was different. Um, going back to, you know, I was 11, so I was much more behind than everybody, and I was also advanced. Just my luck. Um, and so I was there for two years, and then I graduated.

16:51 Speaker 2 In Pittsburgh.

16:52 Speaker 1 In Pittsburgh, and then, um, I asked the reb- my father, I said, "Reb- rebbe, where I should learn?" And he said, "It's your son's choice. He can either go to New York or go to Montreal." And I thought to myself, "Well, New York, the kids are so close to the rebbe, it'll be impossible for me. They're like all very righteous and holy. I mean, they're by the rebbe, they have to be." And see, I grew up with, and I don't know how to say it in English, we were all . So you can say devoted, but it's a lot different than devoted because it was a two-way street, very much a two-way street. Um, and so I, I said, "I'll go to Montreal," 'cause it's much farther away from New York, and it's far away from, uh, New York. Um, and what I didn't realize was Montreal was like a shtetl in Poland. So my first teacher in Gemara said that he's gonna teach in Yiddish because English is a goyish shprach And I turned to the person sitting next to me, and I asked, "What's a shprach?" 'Cause my parents... Well, I'll tell you that in a second. So I raised my hand, and the teacher said, "Yes?" I said, "Can I ask you a question?" He said, "Yes." I said, "Well, you see, my father and mother, they were shlochim from the previous Rebbe. They were emissaries of the previous Rebbe, and they'd only taught us English. So you're telling me that my

18:51 Speaker 1 parents are like the goyim, right? Wow." So that was my first, like, jolt. And then Friday night I, I went to sh- to the minyan for the, for the guys, for the students. And I was very proud of myself because I, I had a suit. For my bar mitzvah I got a suit and a black hat. And so I was walking in like I was a little prince. And everybody, the teachers, the older students, the younger students, "How can you wear that?" I said, "Wear what? The suit?" I said, "It's just a suit." And they said, "Yeah, it's blue, and the goyim wear blue." I said, "You know, did I ever tell you about my father? He wore a blue suit, so you're telling me again my father's a goy." I was like, "This place is crazy." And so the first farbrengen- The first farbrengen, someone gives me a small cup of liquor. I had never had liquor in my life. So I said, "Well, I don't drink liquor." They said, "Well, you have to." And I said, "No, I don't. I don't have to." They said, "Well, all Chassidim drink mashke." I said-- It was actually my father's first cousin. I said, "Did, did you know my father? Did you ever meet him? You know, he's a shliach in Tennessee for the Rebbe. He doesn't drink mashke. Once a year he does. Once a year he makes kiddush on mashke." And I think-

20:33 Speaker 2 On Simchas Torah.

20:34 Speaker 1 On Simchas Torah, yeah.

20:35 Speaker 2 Right.

20:36 Speaker 1 And I said, "Probably because I don't think he has ever been by the Rebbe for Yom Tov. Maybe once when my grandfather had a heart attack he may have gone, but I was the-- I was my father's, um... I guess me and my sister were my father's emissaries for him, his messengers. And he could ask, "What's it like for the Rebbe to cry?" You know, when the Rebbe would, uh, heh, he would have all the, the messages on his, uh, what's it called?

21:11 Speaker 2 On his bima.

21:12 Speaker 1 On his bima. And he covered everything with his tallit, and he'd cry. It's hard to say without getting emotional. Um, just so many things, I'm-

21:24 Speaker 2 Your father would ask you what that was like.

21:26 Speaker 1 Everything.

21:27 Speaker 2 You would go for Tisha B'Av, and then your father would ask you how it was.

21:30 Speaker 1 Everything. Like, so the Rebbe would dance for Hakafot. He would dance with his brother-in-law, the Rashag.

21:39 Speaker 2 Right.

21:39 Speaker 1 He had a small sefer Torah.

21:41 Speaker 2 Right.

21:42 Speaker 1 And so I purposely was, wasn't the first person next to the table because it's, it's too sharp. So I'd be the second person, so I could lean over the first person, and I could reach the Rebbe's se- sefer Torah to kiss his sefer Torah.

22:01 Speaker 2 At what age is this?

22:03 Speaker 1 Um, so I'm-- That was at sixteen.

22:06 Speaker 2 Okay. Uh, a teenage boy.

22:08 Speaker 1 No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. When we-- When I was in yeshiva in Montreal, we used to take a bus down. One of the guys would rent the bus, and we would take the bus down to Crown Heights.

22:21 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

22:22 Speaker 1 So it started at thirteen or fourteen.

22:26 Speaker 2 Bar mitzvah boy.

22:27 Speaker 1 Right.

22:28 Speaker 2 And then you'd go home at some, some other point in the year, and your father would ask you.

22:33 Speaker 1 Yeah. Or I'd call.

22:35 Speaker 2 Right.

22:37 Speaker 1 Um, now that was the first time, when I was thirteen, was the first time that I had ever heard anything to do with being afraid of God, Yirah.

22:52 Speaker 2 Homesick for Lubavitch is brought to you by Yuvala Media, a boutique video production company servicing the Chabad and Jewish community. Since opening ten years ago, Yuvala Media has pushed the boundaries of artistic and thoughtful storytelling in the community with an insistence on there always being a memorable story as well as a beautiful and striking visual image that we believe is second to none. Over the years, we have worked with Chabad organizations around the country, as well as large organizations like Bonialo, Torah Umesora, and Hatalathon, guided by the belief that your story is absolutely worth telling with depth and creativity. If you are looking to tell your story with a video, please reach out to us at hello@yuvalamedia.com. Again, that is hello@yuvalamedia.com. A link can be found in the show notes. And now back to the podcast. So one second.

23:46 Speaker 1 Sure.

23:47 Speaker 2 We'll put a pin in that. You, you mentioned the tkiyas by the Rebbe. You also have painted the scene of being a boy that grew up in Nashville-

23:57 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

23:57 Speaker 2 ... very distant from the whole culture of, of Lubavitch, the community of Lubavitch, right?

24:06 Speaker 1 Right.

24:06 Speaker 2 How did you, h-how did you, um, like grasp tkiyas or these moments? Was it-- What, what kind of filter were you using? What, did your father-

24:17 Speaker 1 Okay

24:18 Speaker 2 ... prepare you for it? Was it just raw Nashville boy-

24:22 Speaker 1 So-

24:22 Speaker 2 ... seeing it?

24:23 Speaker 1 Okay, so when I was thirteen, I asked my father a question. And he answered the question, and he says, "You know, I want to make a deal with you. I want you to tell me everything you want to do, everything you think about doing, so we can talk about it." So I said, "Okay, I've got a few conditions. And if you meet my conditions, then I'll do whatever you like." I said, "My first condition is if I don't listen to you, it's not kibud av. It's not dishonoring you, okay? That's the first thing. Because I'm probably not gonna listen to you because I'm a teenager, okay? And it can't be breaking kibud av. That's the first thing. The second thing is, if you don't like what I'm doing, you can't yell at me. It's not fair. I'm telling you my secrets, you can't yell. And the third thing is, you can't show your emotions. I have my own emotions. I'm just 13. So those three things, then we'll do it, and he s- he agreed. And my whole life, everything I did when I left yeshiva, never yelled his voice. The only thing my father... Uh, and I'm trumping a little bit, but the only thing my father ever told me when I was away from yeshiva was one time he said to me, "You know, you can reach a higher level than I could reach." And I said, "I know, and I'm not interested." Like, what child would wanna be on a higher level

26:06 Speaker 1 than their own father? It does- nobody wants, no child wants to do that. You're telling me I can be on a higher level than the Rebbe? Excuse me, I'm not interested . Okay? That was the only time he ever said anything. My mother, the only thing she ever told me was, um, at one point she was... I was an adult living in Atlanta, and my mother was diagnosed with cancer, lung cancer, and she didn't have it... Oh, oh, I'm sorry. And so I stayed the entire month until she came out. And so my wife came to pick me up with my son, and my mother said to me, "I, I just want you to know, I'm proud of everything you do. Everything." Meaning, even though you don't keep Shabbos, I'm proud of you. Even though you don't keep kosher, I'm proud of you. It was like, wow. It was the most incredible thing in the world. Those were the only things my parents ever said.

27:21 Speaker 3 Hmm. Wow.

27:22 Speaker 1 Okay? They never blamed me. Nothing. They just... Okay? I wasn't... Re- rebelling was not a word. It wasn't a concept.

27:34 Speaker 3 Okay. W- we'll, we will get back to that.

27:37 Speaker 1 Sure.

27:37 Speaker 3 That's... We're, we are, we're not avoiding the topic, but I don't wanna lose-

27:40 Speaker 1 Sure. No, no, no

27:40 Speaker 3 ... you. Let's, let's talk about-

27:42 Speaker 1 Sure

27:42 Speaker 3 ... let's... So, so, so back to the tkiyas.

27:45 Speaker 1 Back to the tkiyas. So, I had a question. It was a teenager question, and so I asked my mashpia. Tell me how to say that in English.

28:01 Speaker 3 It's okay. I mean, it was a teacher and then-

28:03 Speaker 1 A teacher, but he was also he took c- care of you, of the students at, um-

28:10 Speaker 3 The people listening-

28:11 Speaker 1 For your spiritual.

28:13 Speaker 3 Yeah, the people listening know what it is.

28:15 Speaker 1 Oh, okay. And so it was something that was in Tanya. It was very negative. Well, I never learned negative. I learned Chassidus, so there's nothing negative in Chassidus.

28:31 Speaker 3 Right.

28:31 Speaker 1 How can this be possible? What was the-

28:35 Speaker 3 Are you-

28:35 Speaker 1 ... Ba'al HaTanya saying? Now-

28:37 Speaker 3 You, you can be specific about what it was.

28:39 Speaker 1 Okay.

28:41 Speaker 3 Right. Which is in Perek Zayin or Lev Avodah Tanya.

28:44 Speaker 1 Whatever. So-

28:45 Speaker 3 So as I said, it's an early Perakim or you-

28:47 Speaker 1 Right

28:47 Speaker 3 ... or Negia Zechiyah, you stumble into it there either also.

28:51 Speaker 1 Right. So, um-

28:54 Speaker 3 And you're a teenage boy.

28:55 Speaker 1 And-

28:55 Speaker 3 We're just framing what-

28:56 Speaker 1 I was 13. Right. I was 13.

28:59 Speaker 3 So this, this is a, this is a very confusing statement to come across at that age.

29:02 Speaker 1 Very... Yes, yes.

29:05 Speaker 3 Right.

29:05 Speaker 1 To me, to me, it was just a perfectly normal thing. Nothing was even made of it.

29:10 Speaker 3 It's also not really in your control at that point in your life.

29:12 Speaker 1 And it's... Exactly. So, um, my mashpia, um, he got an easy out by telling me, and I didn't realize at the time it was an easy out, but he got an easy out by telling me, "Your father knows a lot, lot more Chassidus than I do. So ask your father." So I asked my father, and my father said, "I don't know. Ask the Rebbe." That's what he said. "Ask the Rebbe." Now, I have to fast-forward a little bit so people will understand. When I went to yeshiva when I was 16, I went to, uh, Ocean Parkway. The very first Shabbos, well, every Shabbos, we went to Crown Heights to the Rebbe. And so all of my father's friends came over to me and introduced themselves. They c- uh, called themselves by their first name. Actually, the very first time I met my mashpia, he came into my room. It was my dorm room. I was very homesick.

30:31 Speaker 3 This, this is in Montreal.

30:47 Speaker 1 Montreal. I'm sorry.

30:52 Speaker 3 Yes.

30:52 Speaker 1 It was Montreal. He comes into the room. I stand up, um, out of respect, and, um, I put out my hand ... Call me Itche Meir." Now, he knew what he was doing When an adult tells a child, "Call me by my first name," then all the walls are down, and we can fight. You can't get away with anything. You can't anyway because of my father, son, and he taught us to ask questions.

31:26 Speaker 3 Right.

31:27 Speaker 1 So it was very interesting. Um, he actually didn't wanna be the Mashpia. He told the Rebbe he was... I think he started, he was in his 20s. He said, "I can't do it." And the Rebbe said, "You'll learn. You need to do it."

31:45 Speaker 3 Yeah.

31:47 Speaker 1 So, getting back to 770, the first couple weeks, uh, they'd introduce themselves, and it was one-on-one, and I would ask each one, "Tell me your favorite story of when my father was a bachur." If he was a bachur, he was in... I mean, first he went to New York. First he went to, um, what's it called? The liturgy yeshiva.

32:21 Speaker 3 Um, Te- Te- Teredath?

32:24 Speaker 1 Teredath.

32:24 Speaker 3 Teredath.

32:25 Speaker 1 There were Lubavitch there also.

32:27 Speaker 3 Right.

32:28 Speaker 1 But, I mean, that was the only place you could go.

32:29 Speaker 3 Right.

32:30 Speaker 1 So went first Teredath, and then, uh, Bedford and Dean, and then 770. I think that's what it was. So when my father said, "Bachur, what was, what's your favorite story?" And everyone told me the same story. That in the zal in 770 upstairs, my father would talk to the, it was the Ramash at the time.

32:54 Speaker 3 Right.

32:54 Speaker 1 He would talk, sit with the Ramash for three hours. They would stand, and they would talk.

33:01 Speaker 3 See, your father was a bachur. The Ramash, this was in times of the Frierdiker Rebbe, so the Ramash was-

33:05 Speaker 1 Right. It's in the '40s, you know

33:07 Speaker 3 ... Ramash is the-

33:08 Speaker 1 Mid '40s

33:08 Speaker 3 ... is, is the son-in-law, who for most people is very often-

33:11 Speaker 1 Oh, I'm sorry. So he was a son-in-law of the previous Rebbe.

33:16 Speaker 3 Right. No, but he, so he has this position, and so for that reason, he's very distant to most or removed from most people. Yeah, he, people... He's not, not as approachable as a regular person in shul.

33:28 Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah.

33:28 Speaker 3 Right?

33:29 Speaker 1 I assume so, yeah.

33:31 Speaker 3 But no, I'm just trying to paint the picture.

33:32 Speaker 1 Right. Yeah.

33:33 Speaker 3 I don't know what... It wasn't common for people to spend hours talking to the Ramash-

33:37 Speaker 1 Right. Right

33:37 Speaker 3 ... in the zal.

33:39 Speaker 1 My understanding, yeah.

33:40 Speaker 3 Yeah.

33:41 Speaker 1 I don't remember.

33:42 Speaker 3 No, it seems, it seems like, it seems like he was very kind to many people at the time, and very-

33:47 Speaker 1 Right

33:47 Speaker 3 ... especially, especially to boys that were... I heard from Rebbe, from Rebbe Lukrinsky. I once, uh, once interviewed him, and he spoke about how the Ramash at the time was makar of him as a young boy who was learning in Bedford and Dean. Especially they had a history with he, the, the, the Rebbe had a history, the Ramash had a history with, with, uh, with his parents, with the Krinsky, with the Krinskys.

34:12 Speaker 1 Right.

34:13 Speaker 3 Um, I think something to do with the Sfar, with printing Sfarim. I don't remember. So he was makar of him. So it seems like there was, like he wou- he would be makar of these, these, these bachurim and... But I, I, just it's also important to remember that he wasn't, that he, he had a very exalted position. He was chason v'nezer. So it wasn't, it wasn't exactly common for someone to sit and talk to him for three hours, just-

34:39 Speaker 1 They stand. Yeah, right.

34:40 Speaker 3 Yeah.

34:41 Speaker 1 Now, um, go back to, to Pittsburgh for a minute. Um-

34:48 Speaker 3 Just one second. So, so what, so that story, when people told you that story, what, what did that do for you? Excuse me.

34:56 Speaker 1 I was much closer to the Rebbe.

34:58 Speaker 3 I see.

34:59 Speaker 1 I was-

34:59 Speaker 3 From a personal connection.

35:01 Speaker 1 Well, yeah, personal connection.

35:03 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

35:05 Speaker 1 Um, and in a minute I'll tell you how it really became a very personal connection. So my father's father-

35:14 Speaker 3 Let's have a... One second. You asked me to draw you back to the stories. So you had written to the Rebbe-

35:19 Speaker 1 But I have to... No, so-

35:20 Speaker 3 You wanna say this.

35:21 Speaker 1 I have to-

35:21 Speaker 3 You wanna say this point. Okay

35:22 Speaker 1 ... this one point, and so it'll bring it more into-

35:26 Speaker 3 Okay

35:26 Speaker 1 ... so he was known to not use, uh, concepts like, um-

35:34 Speaker 3 Who was this?

35:35 Speaker 1 ... Dinah b'Tochtaynhem, my father's father.

35:36 Speaker 3 Your father's father.

35:38 Speaker 1 Rabbi Shalom Posner.

35:39 Speaker 3 Right.

35:40 Speaker 1 So like Dinah b'Tochtaynhem or Kabbalah of Zohar or whatever. He never said those words. He lived the words.

35:48 Speaker 3 Interesting.

35:48 Speaker 1 So when I first, I was in Montreal, I, I think it was Montreal. It was the first time I heard the phrase Dinah b'Tochtaynhem. I had no idea what it was. And then when he explained, the teacher explained what it was, so all the guys started saying, "Oh, that's too hard to do. You have to be like a Beineny to do something like that." And I'm thinking to myself, "I've always done that." That's how... Um, I have a friend here in Atlanta. Both of his parents, pa- pa- my parents were makar. And so he, he's, has, I know, had 10 children. Almost all of them are married. And he tells everybody, especially if I'm there, but even if I'm not there, he says, "If it wasn't for Rabbi, for, for Mendel Posner's parents or Men- Mendel Posner's father, I wouldn't be talking to you. I'd be married to... If I was married, I'd be married probably to a non-Jewish girl." So, and he, he would tell all his kids, "So be really nice to Mendy." Mendy is my nickname. Um, so he taught you how to live it, 'cause concepts is theory. Every concept is a theory, and it's different for every person.

37:09 Speaker 3 Right.

37:12 Speaker 1 So I come to Montreal, and there's only one person that... Well, one person in the yeshiva that really got me, and that was Rabbi Greenglass. And so I may have been maybe two weeks in Montreal, and Rabbi Greenglass comes over to me, and of course speaking in English, so I can't tell you exactly how his English was, but it was good enough for me to understand. And he says, "You know, your father is so far away from you. I'm gonna be your father."

37:46 Speaker 3 Here in Montreal?

37:47 Speaker 1 In Montreal. "You know, it's different for you over here. I want you to tell me everything that you tell your father, I want you to tell me." I said, "Everything?" He said, "Yeah, everything." I said, "Well, I have two problems with Montreal." I mean, maybe a few more problems, but two, two problems that bother me every day. You can't read anything English except for school. You can't read a newspaper. You can't read a Newsweek magazine. You can't read The New York Times or a novel or whatever I'm reading. And the other thing is you can't talk to girls. How crazy is that? They say, "Well, you can't even look at girls, 'cause if you look at a girl, you might talk to her. And if you talk to her, you're gonna hold her hand. And if you hold her hand, you're gonna..." See, that's what the Baptists said. "And if you hold her hand, you're gonna dance with her. And if you dance with her, well, you know what you're gonna do." And I would be like, "Are you out of your mind? My best friend, her name is Rita. I've known her my entire life, and I will continue talking to her the rest of my life. There's absolutely nothing wrong. My father doesn't think it's something wrong." So they never bothered me about that again, um, although they did confiscate all the letters she sent me, which was so stupid. Um, if it's writing, he would give me a hard time, but I

39:20 Speaker 1 mean, reading, he'd give me a hard time about reading. And, and so, you know, I'd never done this before, but I thought, "Why not? See how, how strong he is in his argument." And so I asked my father. I asked my father, um, "Is it okay to read? Can I have your permission to read?" He said, "Read all you like." I said, "The problem is Itche Meir won't let me." He said, "Just tell him that I said it's okay, and kibud av. That's all you need to say." Well, I was, I was a kid in a candy store. I was the happiest kid in the world 'cause now I beat him. Checkmate. And so the next time he said something to me, I said, "Itche Meir, I've got a problem, and I really don't know what to do. You tell me not to read, so I asked my father. He said, 'Okay, do I have your trust?' And he says, 'Tzik a zunt a reit.' And so kibud av, what do I do?" So he saw he's beaten 'cause he, I have to listen to my father. And, uh, um, so he said, "But don't share it with anybody." I said, "Itche Meir, no one wants to read The New York Times. It's the most boring thing in the world. They like the Post because on page six, there's a woman in a bikini." A bikini? What's a bikini? Silliness. I'm not interested in bikinis. Who cares? Checkmate. Finished. So that wa... But it was

41:00 Speaker 1 Rabbi Greenglass' response to me was, "Ah," you know, he'd go like this. "Don't even think about it. It's not your inyan."

41:09 Speaker 3 Oh, oh, when it gets to what?

41:11 Speaker 1 The girls, reading, same thing.

41:14 Speaker 3 He said it was-

41:15 Speaker 1 He wouldn't even talk about it.

41:17 Speaker 3 It's okay that you did it in his mind?

41:18 Speaker 1 Hundred percent.

41:19 Speaker 3 Really?

41:20 Speaker 1 Yes, because this is how my father... They spoke the same language, okay? My father spoke the same language. I need people that speak my language.

41:31 Speaker 3 Okay.

41:31 Speaker 1 So if I can't do it, you've gotta give me a good reason.

41:34 Speaker 3 Right.

41:35 Speaker 1 Well, telling me that I'm gonna have sex with a girl because I'm looking at a girl, or it's gonna come to that in no time at all, that's not an answer. You gotta give me an answer that works.

41:46 Speaker 3 Okay.

41:46 Speaker 1 Okay?

41:47 Speaker 3 Okay.

41:47 Speaker 1 Give me an answer. There is no answer. It's not ishkiten. I remember one time I asked my father a question about the Rebbe. The bochurim were asking questions about just... My father was like, "What kind of question is that? That's silliness. Talk serious. You have a question? Tell me. Tell me something the Rebbe said that you have a question."

42:09 Speaker 3 You're saying the bochurim were talking like gossip. The Rebbe did this, or Rebbe did that. Not gossip, but like yomas stuff.

42:14 Speaker 1 Not ishkiten.

42:15 Speaker 3 Yomas stuff, like what happened when.

42:17 Speaker 1 Whatever.

42:18 Speaker 3 Yeah.

42:18 Speaker 1 How did, how did he, how did he tie his shoes right over left or left over right? Don't even go there, okay?

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43:36 Speaker 4 At some point, you wrote a letter to the rabbi about your, your challenge understanding Tanya talking about-

43:44 Speaker 1 No, I didn't write a letter. So-

43:46 Speaker 4 You didn't write a letter.

43:46 Speaker 1 No. So I called my father-

43:47 Speaker 4 Your fa- your fa- your father asked you to, told you to ask the rabbi, yeah

43:50 Speaker 1 ... So, no. So, so I would... And this started as a regular thing when I was 14, at least until I went to New- New York, and then I had someone else take care of it. But, um, I would, I, I would, I called my father and said, "Can you ask..." 'Cause he, he told me to ask the rabbi, so I said, "So can you ask the rabbi this?" And so what my father did, he called Binyamin Klein, and I'll tell you why I called Binyamin, why I called everybody by their first name, 'cause that's everybody introduced me by their first name. So but it also makes you very close to that person.

44:34 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

44:35 Speaker 1 A rabbi, oh, that's distant.

44:36 Speaker 4 Right.

44:38 Speaker 1 So, um, so he would call Binyamin in the morning. Binyamin would go to the rabbi's office, knock on the door. The rabbi would, I don't, whatever, he buzz him in or whatever the rabbi did. He, he would ask, he ask the rabbi right then and there, and the rabbi answered him, and he came back to the office, called my father, and so my father always had answers in but however long it took, a couple minutes, whatever, he always had an answer. So as soon as I called my father, I had the answer. And the rabbi, I guess what excited me the most was the rabbi speaks my language. Okay? So speaking my language-

45:20 Speaker 4 What did the rabbi say?

45:22 Speaker 1 You know, I can't do that.

45:24 Speaker 4 You know what I'm saying?

45:25 Speaker 1 No, no, no. I'll, I'll tell you in a second. The problem with telling people my stories is nobody understands unless they speak my language.

45:33 Speaker 4 I see.

45:34 Speaker 1 Okay?

45:34 Speaker 4 Wow.

45:34 Speaker 1 And that's the problem I have with the Lubavitch claw because nobody understands, and it's like, "Well, you listen to the rabbi. You learn. He's my Morim." The problem with learning my Morim is you learn the concepts.

45:47 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

45:48 Speaker 1 Explain the concept. How does that affect your life? A tzitzis. Don't explain a tzitzis to me. Fine. How does that affect your life?

45:56 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

45:56 Speaker 1 And you look at me like I'm out of my mind.

45:59 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

46:00 Speaker 1 If you ask me how it affects my life, it's simple. I learned that when I was a child.

46:07 Speaker 4 Well, how does it affect your life?

46:11 Speaker 1 That's a different conversation.

46:12 Speaker 4 Okay.

46:13 Speaker 1 But let me, let me, let me give you an example.

46:15 Speaker 4 Okay.

46:16 Speaker 1 Um, smeach bechelkei. So my father would tell me all the time, "That's just money. You have the Aibishter. You have the Aibishter." It's like when I would go into yechidas, okay, and I'm sure there are people watching this. You're in yechidas, it was just you and the rabbi. Okay? Imagine one of your friends walks into yechidas. Imagine your yechidas lasting more than 10 seconds, okay? And your friend walks in, and what do you do? You turn to him and start talking to him. Of course not.

47:02 Speaker 4 Right.

47:02 Speaker 1 Okay? So here you have... I, I, I hate to break this to you, but Aibishter is in a higher level than the rabbi. I, I hate to break that to you. You're still a good Hasid, but Aibishter is a higher level 'cause you don't really worry about the Aibishter as like the rabbi. So here you have, you're, you're in shul davening, and you have melech malchei hamlachim Hakadosh Baruch Hu, just you and Aibishter. Okay? Of course, you're in yechidas. You close the door. Okay? I'm just imagining like closing the door, and it's just you and the Aibishter. Now, um, one thing you can have if you want, I used to walk every morning 45 minutes. To me, I was in Gan Eden because for 45 minutes straight, no phones, no nothing, just me and the Aibishter or me and the rabbi. That was it. It was like I've got the best of both worlds.

48:15 Speaker 4 Mm.

48:15 Speaker 1 Okay? But it's not, it's something you take for granted. It's like, it's not a boast. All my friends are like that. I have a... This Litvisher friend that I was telling you about earlier, I asked him because I thought maybe it's my memory. So I asked him, I said, "You know, when my father taught us in Nashville, did he ever teach you about yirah?" He said, "No, never." I said, "What'd he teach you?" "Ahavah." He said, "Just ahavah. No yirah." "Did he teach you to ask questions or just accept whatever your rebbe says?" He says, "I had a problem with that because my rebbe would teach me something, I'd ask a question, and his response almost always was, 'Ah, that's your problem. You don't believe in God.' And I'd be like, 'What are you talking about? I'm just asking.'" It's like the very first time emunah. We're learning about, about emunah. So I asked him, which Rabbi Meir was teaching the class. So I said, "What's emunah?" And I'm sure he was never asked that question because you know, you have to be a koifer to ask that question. I soon found out you have to be a koifer to ask the question. He said, "Emunah is emunah." I said, "No, no, no. You can't answer a question with the answer, or you can't answer a question with a question."

49:47 Speaker 4 Right.

49:48 Speaker 1 Okay? You can't do that.

49:49 Speaker 4 Right.

49:50 Speaker 1 He said, "Well, emunah, let's see, it's, uh, faith."

49:54 Speaker 4 Right.

49:54 Speaker 1 I said, "No, we're doing a dictionary. What's faith? What's, what's emunah?" He couldn't tell me.

50:01 Speaker 4 So that's when you found out that you were a koifer, when you started asking those-

50:03 Speaker 1 No. So one of my classmates said, "How can you ask a question like that? What are you, a koifer?"

50:08 Speaker 4 Uh.

50:08 Speaker 1 I said, "No problem. Why don't you tell me what emunah is?" And he's thinking, thinking, thinking. Finally, he says, "I don't know." Ah. "You're the koifer." "You can't even ask about it because you're so ashamed of yourself." Me? I'm not ashamed of anything. I don't have shame. I was never even taught shame.

50:31 Speaker 4 Huh. All right, so, so-

50:33 Speaker 1 So I had-

50:34 Speaker 4 So, so, so you come to this because-

50:35 Speaker 1 So with-

50:36 Speaker 4 So y- Yeah, go ahead.

50:37 Speaker 1 Okay. So with Greenglass, I could speak my language.

50:41 Speaker 4 So, so let, let's understand. Your language was speak to me, speak to me like a person, speak to me like a, like, like... Speak to, speak to me about God in Yiddish, guy, like you speak to me about this cup of coffee.

50:56 Speaker 1 Exactly.

50:57 Speaker 4 That's what you mean by your language, not some secret code or-

51:00 Speaker 1 No, the... No.

51:00 Speaker 4 No, but my language, like my ˈNashville Bahamas should understand, right?

51:04 Speaker 1 Yes.

51:05 Speaker 4 It's like the famous thing that the Hasidim used to say in middle of davening, in middle of Shema, he would tie up Shema in Yiddish. Or it's like as a Hefsich. You know what I mean? This, he would say it's from my ˈNashville Bahamas.

51:15 Speaker 1 Right.

51:17 Speaker 4 So that's what you're saying.

51:18 Speaker 1 Yeah.

51:18 Speaker 4 So, so take it back. So, so when the Rebbe answered you about your Shaila on Tanya-

51:23 Speaker 1 Okay. So what the Rebbe said to me was-

51:27 Speaker 4 Right

51:27 Speaker 1 ... that it's only, um... How do you say positive? It, it's only Simcha in Ave. Everything else, it's, it's not for you. It, it's, it's not even Negeh to-

51:51 Speaker 4 Don't get bogged, don't get bogged down in it.

51:53 Speaker 1 Exactly. Not only bogged down, it's not... The same thing I asked the Rebbe, all my questions about reading, about girls, the Rebbe would s- And the Rebbe would say to me, "Dav zitzn learn in Torah."

52:09 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

52:09 Speaker 1 Every time, "Dav zitzn learn in Torah." When I had a concussion when I was fifteen, and the Rebbe would talk to me exactly like I was, had no problem with my memory. He never even mentioned the word memory.

52:24 Speaker 4 Huh.

52:25 Speaker 1 Okay?

52:26 Speaker 4 Okay, so I wanna get back to still you, this, the, the moment of Tkhias that you came 'cause we're, we're circling around that. And there's so much to talk about, but I wanna, uh, to me, I feel like that's gonna be an important point. So y- you're painting this picture so far just for, just to organize a little bit.

52:41 Speaker 1 That was, that was my world.

52:43 Speaker 4 Yes, but what I'm trying to, what I'm trying to hone in on is that on one hand, you're, you're... It's a very interesting landscape that you're painting here. On one hand, you have this very robust interior world or private world, which is a world that, of, of, of language and thinking that you got from your father in Nashville.

53:07 Speaker 1 To you, it's a different world. To me-

53:09 Speaker 4 No, it's your world. I'm saying-

53:10 Speaker 1 No, no, no. What I'm saying is-

53:11 Speaker 4 But, but it's, it's different, it's, it's different, it's different from the people around you is my point.

53:15 Speaker 1 Right. But that's their language.

53:17 Speaker 4 I understand. So that's what I'm trying to... So, so to me, you're, you're painting a picture where you've come from Nashville. On, on the outside, you, you're a Lubavitcher, and not on the outside, on the inside also.

53:26 Speaker 1 Right.

53:26 Speaker 4 But you look like, you look like everyone else.

53:28 Speaker 1 No, I didn't.

53:28 Speaker 4 You didn't... Okay, you had a blue suit.

53:30 Speaker 1 I had a yamulka. I had tzitzit.

53:32 Speaker 4 No, no, yeah. No, like everyone else in Lubavitch. You come-

53:35 Speaker 1 Right. Oh, okay

53:36 Speaker 4 ... you, you come to the yeshiva, you're a Lubavitcher.

53:38 Speaker 1 So I-

53:38 Speaker 4 You're Shaul, you're Shaul Poser's zeinik, or you're Shaul Poser's son.

53:41 Speaker 1 I-

53:41 Speaker 4 But you're-

53:42 Speaker 1 I-

53:42 Speaker 4 But you're different.

53:44 Speaker 1 Okay. For one thing-

53:45 Speaker 4 That's my point, right?

53:47 Speaker 1 I was different in ma- many levels. So for example-

53:50 Speaker 4 So how did you x- understand Tkhias? Was Tkhias something that you understood together with everyone else, or was Tkhias something that you understood on your own language, like you said?

54:00 Speaker 1 It's... Let me tell you a different story.

54:03 Speaker 4 Okay.

54:04 Speaker 1 When I was around fifty-five or so, not frum, and when I say not frum, I ate chazer on Yom Kippur with a smile on my face. Now, the only reason I ate chazer on Yom Kippur, that Yom Kippur, I mean, I had it other times also, was it was not disrespect to the Lubavitch there.

54:21 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

54:21 Speaker 1 Not at all. Of course, I spoke your language. Okay?

54:28 Speaker 4 All right. So what was it?

54:28 Speaker 1 I-

54:28 Speaker 4 So what was it?

54:38 Speaker 1 You have a child, right? And your child is such a good kid. And Viamaal, they'll do something they shouldn't do. And you have a choice, okay? You can love your child unconditionally or give him a frask. I'll, I'll give you an example. So people... When, when I was in Nashville, and my father wanted to learn, so I'd learn with him. And then if someone came to see him, I'd leave his office, and they, they would talk, and as soon as they finished, he'd come and get me, right?

55:11 Speaker 4 Right.

55:11 Speaker 1 So, so I'd, and I'd sit and learn or read whatever I did in the small shul. There were, they'd dav- daven, you know, during the week. And this guy comes over to me. I have no idea who he is 'cause everybody knew me because I'm the rabbi's son, so they knew me. So the guy never came to shul, and he says, "I love your daddy, and you must be wondering why I love your daddy so much. I don't keep kosher, and I don't put on tefillin. I don't keep Shabbat." He's going through all the things he doesn't do. "And so you must be wondering why I love your daddy so much." And I, I let him do all the talking, and he said, "Your daddy teaches me everything, so I know better." So I'll drive to shul on Shabbos morning, and I'll walk into the chapel, the, the, they call it the small shul. I walk into the chapel, you know, Dad would be sitting there at the table teaching Torah, and all, all the men, women sitting around the table. And he'll look up and smile, and he'll say, "Mr. So-and-so, would you like to join us and learn some Torah?" He never says to me, "Now, you know better than to be driving to shul." So your daddy loves me unconditionally no matter what I do, even if I do things I shouldn't do. Okay? So that's one thing. Another thing is, and just let me-

56:44 Speaker 4 Okay, yeah, yeah

56:45 Speaker 1 ... I'll get-

56:45 Speaker 4 No, go, go ahead.

56:47 Speaker 1 So this guy calls me.

56:50 Speaker 4 Which guy?

56:51 Speaker 1 It was him, it's Gershon Grossman. He was my elder bachur when I was in Montreal. So he'd call me via mobile. He, I guess he's trying to-

56:57 Speaker 4 Oh, oh, he ca- So this is when you were fifty-five and-

56:59 Speaker 1 I was around fifty-five. So he calls me up at our store. We had a bridal store.

57:02 Speaker 4 I, I could just ask you not to leave, to leave the-

57:05 Speaker 1 Oh, leave it. Yeah

57:06 Speaker 4 ... 'cause we hear it on the mic.

57:07 Speaker 1 It's my friends.

57:08 Speaker 4 Yeah. No, no, it's, it's just they're very sensitive.

57:10 Speaker 1 Oh, okay. So, um, so my friends. Um.

57:17 Speaker 4 So Gershon was-

57:17 Speaker 1 So he calls me up. He asks me, "So how you doing?" And I said, "No complaints. Things are good." And he said, "And how's business?" I said, "Business, take that kaput is. It's not doing well at all." He said, "You just told me you're doing good." I said, "Well, I asked me two questions. You asked me how I was doing. No complaints. You asked me how the business is. It's not doing too well." So he says to me, "You're sameach b'chelke?" And I kind of shrugged, and I said, "I'm not sameach b'chelke, but I'm happy with what I got." He said, "Well, aren't they the same thing?" I said, "No, no. Sameach b'chelke is like hoy zush an apole, that's sameach b'chelke. You know, veinen is sameach b'chelke. It's a, it's a high level. Me, I'm a ienia party here that's nothing fancy, but I'm happy with what I got." Now, I've been happy with what I got my whole life.

58:19 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

58:19 Speaker 1 I didn't need anything fancy. Um, you know, I have this house. I would be fine without the house. My wife wanted a nice house, which grew up with, but it's doch s'vitch.

58:30 Speaker 4 Let's be honest. We're on a plantation here.

58:33 Speaker 1 We're that's right, a plantation. That's right. So, um-

58:37 Speaker 4 Yeah, we're just joking

58:38 Speaker 1 ... I mean, when I met her, we're not actually joking, but he just says that. No, we're not, we're not, we're not. Not a working plantation. The horses are backyard.

58:48 Speaker 4 No, it's, it's people, people still don't get the sense of irony fifty years later.

58:54 Speaker 1 So, so he sa-says to me, "You're the first person in our generation in my entire life that's sameach b'chelke." I said, "That's impossible. The only reason they don't tell you sameach b'chelke is either they think that they're boasting." Okay?

59:17 Speaker 4 Right.

59:18 Speaker 1 Or they don't, it's mainly because they're boasting, you know, they're boasting, they don't wanna... Because you don't talk about yourself.

59:26 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

59:27 Speaker 1 But everybody's sameach b'chelke. He says, "No, I'm, I'm serious." So I called my sister again, and the one in Brazil, she know, she l- she knows a lot of Hasids. A-and so I have, like, really deep conversations. And she says, "Yeah, most people aren't." I said, "I, I couldn't imagine it." So what I'm thinking by that's, that's, you know, my father would come home to shul, from shul, and then he'd daven.

59:58 Speaker 4 Right.

59:58 Speaker 1 We'd be eating lunch, and he'd daven. M-the fa- my most favorite nigun I ever had in my entire life was my father would walk back and forth, back and forth, and he'd sing the whole davening. That was my favorite nigun. I grew up really with a very ruchnisdige outlook.

1:00:27 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:00:31 Speaker 1 Um, I was sitting with my friends, and they were talking about Yechidas. And this guy says he was Yechidas for ten seconds, this guy for fifteen seconds, and I'm thinking, "How do you ask all your questions in fifteen seconds?"

1:00:46 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:00:48 Speaker 1 So I would go Yechidas, we'll bring everything back because one thing has to do with the other completely. So already I'm thinking, "Well, I have no idea how long. I don't look at a watch." It's not even shayeich to look at a watch. You're davening. You look at a watch, it's not even shayeich.

1:01:07 Speaker 4 Right.

1:01:07 Speaker 1 What's more important than Aibishter? So however long I daven, I daven. Now, if my wife needs me or some, a balabat needs, whatever, so that's something else. So I would go in Yechidas, and the Rebbe would look up at me and he'd smile. I get emotional when I talk about it. And he'd smile. Now, you know, when the Rebbe would smile, his eyes would light up. And the Rebbe was like my zeide. That's how he was to me. I was told two things. Oh, and this will answer a question that you were talking with, um, um, Chaim. His name was Chaim and his sons, but he was from Europe.

1:01:55 Speaker 4 Chaim Michl Katzen?

1:01:56 Speaker 1 No, not Chaim Michl. I think Chaim Michl was from Russia, but, um-

1:02:01 Speaker 4 I was talking to Chaim from Europe?

1:02:03 Speaker 1 Yeah, from Scotland or-

1:02:04 Speaker 4 Oh, oh, oh, oh, Shalom Jacob

1:02:06 Speaker 1 ... Jacobs, right. So- Um, 'cause I knew his father from Montreal

1:02:11 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm

1:02:13 Speaker 1 Um, and you had said how he pushed someone's hand away from touching the Rebbe. So whether-

1:02:20 Speaker 4 No, no, Ber Walp. I said Ber Walpgarten did that

1:02:23 Speaker 1 Oh, Ber Walpgarten did, that's right. But it was in the talk with this guy

1:02:27 Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

1:02:28 Speaker 1 Because he made the Rebbe feel bad, and to me it was totally different. So I was told not to do two things, not to shake the Rebbe's hand 'cause the Rebbe may offer his hand, Shalom Aleichem, and if the Rebbe does offer his hand, to look the Rebbe in the eyes and not even at his hand, so you don't notice the hand. And the other thing is the Rebbe may ask you to sit down

1:02:51 Speaker 4 In Yiddish

1:02:52 Speaker 1 Yeah. And you can't do either one out of respect

1:02:56 Speaker 4 Who told this to you?

1:02:56 Speaker 1 My father

1:02:57 Speaker 4 Your father

1:02:58 Speaker 1 Right. So respect is respect. So he-- the Rebbe knew me-

1:03:02 Speaker 4 Okay

1:03:03 Speaker 1 ... or he knew my neshamah, however you wanna look at it, and so if he's not doing it... I don't do anything to disrespect. That's not even a thought. You can't think like this and have that thought. So there are no negative thoughts. In my life, there were no negative thoughts, no shame, no pusha, none of this stuff

1:03:26 Speaker 4 So you said the, the Rebbe was-

1:03:27 Speaker 1 So-

1:03:27 Speaker 4 The Rebbe was your zeide, is what you're saying

1:03:29 Speaker 1 He was like my zeide to me

1:03:31 Speaker 4 Yeah

1:03:31 Speaker 1 Very close

1:03:33 Speaker 4 So when you came and you saw Tkhiyas, what did you see? I'm trying, I'm trying. I, I, I'm not-

1:03:40 Speaker 1 It was very powerful. It was, it was very, very powerful. Um, it was higher than words

1:03:49 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm

1:03:50 Speaker 1 Like, it was just wow. It was just-

1:03:54 Speaker 4 But how does it... I'm tr- Why I'm keying in on this is not because I, I-

1:03:58 Speaker 1 Tkhiyas. Tkhiyas was the same thing. The Rebbe-

1:04:00 Speaker 4 I'm asking-

1:04:00 Speaker 1 ... was called Schaeffer. This is-

1:04:02 Speaker 4 I'm as- I'm asking about... You're saying the Tkhiyas sounded the same thing? Same thing as what? I'm asking about Tkhiyas

1:04:07 Speaker 1 Crying. Crying

1:04:07 Speaker 4 No, but I'm saying the Tkhiyas, you're, you're a teenager from Nashville who-

1:04:12 Speaker 1 No, no, no. See? No, no, no. It's not Nashville. It's not a city

1:04:18 Speaker 4 No, but I'm saying you're a teen... I'm not-- My point is you're a teenager with your own language, and you're having a hard time communicating with h-ha- most of the Hashalim around you. So how are you understanding Tkhiyas?

1:04:29 Speaker 1 Because that's my language

1:04:30 Speaker 4 That's what we're trying to understand. What, what was your language about Tkhiyas? You're not, you're not understanding it in the jargon or the, the way that everyone around you is understanding it-

1:04:42 Speaker 1 So-

1:04:42 Speaker 4 ... that's what I'm trying to get to

1:04:43 Speaker 1 Okay. So, you know what they said about the Baal Shem, that, that he would-

1:04:49 Speaker 4 You said that, you said that you would tell your father about Tkhiyas, right? After, after Davening, after Tishrei, you would tell him

1:04:55 Speaker 1 No, I would tell him about the crying

1:04:57 Speaker 4 Oh, so that's what I wanna... So what, what would you... How would you describe Tkhiyas to your father? To the one-

1:05:01 Speaker 1 Oh

1:05:01 Speaker 4 ... to, to the one person that you, that spoke your language, how would you describe Tkhiyas?

1:05:07 Speaker 1 That's a good question. I have to think about it. No one's asked, asked me because it's, it's like this. It's... See, I, I, I could ask the Rebbe anything except for, um, um, sexual behavior that was unacceptable between two guys, okay? Yeshivas everywhere had, had that problem

1:05:36 Speaker 4 Really?

1:05:37 Speaker 1 Everywhere. Tels had that problem in Canada. In Toronto, I think there was a Tels in Canada, and Tels in Cleveland had the problem, Philly had the problem. Bobov-Chabad, they all had the same problem

1:05:50 Speaker 4 You're talking about molesting?

1:05:51 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:05:52 Speaker 4 Yeah. Okay

1:05:53 Speaker 1 Yeah. So I couldn't ask him. Years later, when I t- I was speaking with both my parents, I think it was after I left. So my mother said to me, because my father always said, "Don't speak to your mother about it. She wouldn't understand." So my mother says, "I would have understood better than you would understand," as she told my father. "I wish you would have told me because I would have told you to ask the Rebbe." That's how close I was with the Rebbe. I could ask him anything

1:06:23 Speaker 4 So why did you feel that was off-limits?

1:06:25 Speaker 1 Because

1:06:26 Speaker 4 Your father told you not to speak to the Rebbe about this?

1:06:28 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:06:29 Speaker 4 Why? Did he give a reason?

1:06:30 Speaker 1 Because it would give the Rebbe agmas nefesh

1:06:32 Speaker 4 That someone had bothered you, or someone had, had, had touched you inappropriately

1:06:37 Speaker 1 Talked about this

1:06:37 Speaker 4 So your, so your, so your f- your father told you, "It's terrible what happened to you, but don't bring it to the Rebbe. This is the one thing that's off-limits to the Rebbe"

1:06:47 Speaker 1 Anything that would give him agmas nefesh. There was, there was something else when, when I came-

1:06:52 Speaker 4 Well, so, so let me jump a little bit here. Sorry, sorry to, uh-

1:06:55 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:06:55 Speaker 4 ... break up. You're concerned about there was agmas nefesh and disrespect to the Rebbe, and I, I, I, I accept that wholeheartedly. I'm not, I'm not asking questions on, on that, on that sentiment or doubting that sentiment. How do you, how do you feel about that in the subsequent years when you're not frum? Uh, were you not concerned that that's gonna cause the Rebbe agmas nefesh?

1:07:23 Speaker 1 Okay. No, no

1:07:25 Speaker 4 Okay. That's, uh... Why not?

1:07:26 Speaker 1 No, not at all

1:07:27 Speaker 4 Why not?

1:07:28 Speaker 1 Oh, so, so many reasons why. First, for one thing, the Rebbe took on us on his plates.

1:07:37 Speaker 4 Uh-huh

1:07:37 Speaker 1 All the kids of the shluchim. I know for sure it was my father. But, um, he, uh, but there were also, uh, that's just what it was. If you were a child of a shliach, then the Rebbe took you on his plates the rest of your life. So I had no problem leaving Yiddishkeit because I'm on the Rebbe's plates. And it's, it's the Rebbe had told me before-

1:08:04 Speaker 4 But you, you don't think the Rebbe wanted you to be a, a frum Yid

1:08:10 Speaker 1 You know there's a phrase, and I'm sure you heard it, um, if you eat kashin temchitmimim, then you'll come back.

1:08:18 Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:08:20 Speaker 1 I, I remember one time the first year of our marriage, so we lived in Manhattan, and I walk- walked... A lot of times we walked past the mitzvah mobiles. And so one time we walk-- And my wife would always say, "Oh, just go put on tefillin," I said, "Why?" And so one time we're going past, and one of the kids asked me if I put on-- if I'm Jewish, and I said, "Yeah, I'm Jewish." He said, "But you put on tefillin." I said, "Why would I put on tefillin?" He said, "If you're neshama." I said, "I don't have a neshama." And he goes like this to me, he didn't have anything. And so as, as I continued walking, I turned around. I said, "I hope you get some kashin temchitmimim." That's my accent, a Russian accent.

1:09:10 Speaker 4 Well, why do you say you didn't have a neshama? What, what, what's that about?

1:09:15 Speaker 1 Oh, you don't wanna hear that story. So when I was fourteen, I called my father and said, "I'm finished with Yiddishkeit." So I can't go to the Rebbe, but-

1:09:33 Speaker 4 Why not?

1:09:34 Speaker 1 Because it would give him a snefesh.

1:09:37 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

1:09:38 Speaker 1 So my father said to me, "Talk to the Rebbe about you wanna leave. Anytime you have that feeling," this is before he gave me a shuz to talk anytime I wanted. Um, it was because I was, uh, finished with Yiddishkeit, I talked to the Rebbe. The Rebbe was very good to me. Um, I could, I could talk to him about anything. I remember when I was a teenager, I was in New York, and I, and I was in Yechidas, 'cause I remembered how the Rebbe responded. And I told the Rebbe that it's much more comfortable to get on the subway and take off my yarmulke and go to Central Park and not wear yarmulke. Such a machaie. Now, I wasn't telling him to... Not rebelling or putting a, a, a whatever, something at his side. I don't know. Are you my Rebbe or you're not my Rebbe? So if you're my Rebbe, I can tell you anything, and you don't, "Oh, Mendel, da, da, da, da, da." You don't play the games. So if you don't play the games, then I can talk to you. The Rebbe never played any kind of games with me.

1:11:07 Speaker 4 Right.

1:11:09 Speaker 1 I remember too many times the Rebbe saying... See, he knew that I learned.

1:11:15 Speaker 4 So what did, what did the Rebbe tell you when you said that?

1:11:17 Speaker 1 He told me I should learn Perik Lamate in Tanya. It says in Perik Lamate in Ta- Tanya that, that, uh, that, uh, that the shechinah rests on your head, so that's why you have to keep your head covered. He didn't say that. He just... He w- he didn't go there.

1:11:35 Speaker 4 He just said learn Perik Lamate.

1:11:36 Speaker 1 Perik Lamate. I must have learned it a thousand times. What are you telling me to learn this? But, um, he said, "That was easy to learn it." Usually he'd say that was in, in Hasidis, 'cause he knew that was my language, was Hasidis. I didn't learn in Yanim. That's, that's who I was.

1:12:04 Speaker 4 Did, did, did you maintain, did you maintain a connection with, with the Rebbe as you drifted away further and further?

1:12:12 Speaker 1 So I'll, I'll tell you an interesting story. So the first time that I was separated from all my friends in Yeshiva was, um... So when I was fifteen, I had a concussion, which nowadays they call a TBI, a traumatic brain injury, and what it does is-

1:12:32 Speaker 4 What happened? You fell off a bike?

1:12:34 Speaker 1 No, I was by Sheve Berachos of somebody that I, I really didn't like. He had serious problems, so I wanted to show him that I really liked him. He, he slept in o- in the, like, the back room.

1:12:45 Speaker 4 So you were being nice to him?

1:12:46 Speaker 1 I was being nice to him. And so we were doing kinda dance, and took four guys, and, and-

1:12:52 Speaker 4 How'd you hurt yourself?

1:12:52 Speaker 1 Well, anyway, so I flew. Me and this other guy flew, and so I hit the back of my head, knocked me out, and I have total amnesia. But, uh, they... Someone threw water in my face, and they woke me up, it's-- which is a terrible thing to do. They paled, they called an ambulance, and they took me to the hospital. I was in the hospital, I don't know how long. I know I was in and out of coma or whatever, I was consciousness. And actually, the only person that came to see, my father came to see me, but the only person, Shiva, that came to see me was Rabbi Greenglass. And I was in bed talking to my father, watching TV. I was watching TV, and my father was talking to me. He walks in-

1:13:35 Speaker 4 Rabbi Greenglass?

1:13:36 Speaker 1 Rabbi Greenglass walks in, and it's like there's no TV. He said hello to me, "Beshalav," you know, he talked to me. And, uh, he didn't even notice the TV. It wasn't there.

1:13:48 Speaker 4 Love it.

1:13:48 Speaker 1 It didn't matter.

1:13:50 Speaker 4 Right.

1:13:50 Speaker 1 That's not what's important. Um, the other person I was very, very close with... So I had three roommates my first year. One was Yosef Tobov, one was Gershon Kosbaum, the other was Levi Bisrittsky, who became the Rav in Sas, and it was... Yeah. Levi Bisrittsky was like my brother.

1:14:13 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

1:14:14 Speaker 1 Everybody was meshuggah, and he took me in almost like a brother, right? I was the closest... From all the bachurim in my tribe, I was closest to Levi Bisrittsky. I mean, it was just... And, and I was so different from everybody, and I mean, as he'd come in, not this way, uh, Elul, every night of Elul, he would come in plastered. And he would, he laid down, like one shoe on, one, one sock off. I mean, it was, you know, whatever. And then he'd, he'd come about two o'clock in the morning, he'd come in, and he'd lay down, and then he'd run to the sink in the kitchen and just, you know, throw up. And then he'd bring like a shisel with him, and every night it was like that. But besides that, I was an American kid, and he treated me like an American kid, but he treated me like he was always... See, he went to the hospital with me, so when I woke up, he was there.

1:15:16 Speaker 4 Huh.

1:15:17 Speaker 1 Which was enormous for me. Um, and so the problem that I had from that, I lost my short-term memory, so I couldn't take a test, and I had a lot of other problems I didn't... Well, I had a tremor, so it looked like I had Parkinson's, that kind of tremor.

1:15:33 Speaker 4 As a result of this concussion?

1:15:35 Speaker 1 Yeah. So I made it into a joke because at first, like, "Look at Poser's hands." And I said, "I'm an old man. You try it. You can't do it as well as I can do it." And then I turned it around and then said, "Look at Poser. He's an old man. Try doing what Poser can do. I bet you can't do it as well as he does it."

1:15:59 Speaker 4 Huh.

1:16:00 Speaker 1 So they didn't think anything of it. But I had a lot of other problems. I, um, I would blurt things out, like have no control over what you say.

1:16:09 Speaker 4 Like Tourette's?

1:16:10 Speaker 1 It's like, but not cussing. It's like, it's like even now I have the same problem. I'll think to myself, "Don't say that"-

1:16:18 Speaker 4 And it comes out

1:16:18 Speaker 1 ... and then turn around and say it right away. And I just... But I just tell myself-

1:16:22 Speaker 4 I mean, that s- that sounds like a pretty common Lubavitch condition.

1:16:24 Speaker 1 That's right. I found out it's... But I don't have filters. And I was like, "Let's make this up. We're sure good." And then my next conversation, at least I have an excuse. What's your excuse?

1:16:38 Speaker 4 Right.

1:16:40 Speaker 1 I'm talking to somebody, and someone else comes over and takes over the conversation, like I'm not standing there. And I didn't even notice it. I did it myself because that's what everybody does. Um, and then when I stopped doing it, I get annoyed with people. But I... Anyway, so that was a problem I had.

1:16:59 Speaker 4 You told, you told me on the phone a very touching story of when you were bachur in Kfar Chabad, and you're struggling with this memory loss, and you're beginning to forget how to daven in the middle of davening, and something that Rabbi Ashkenazi told you.

1:17:14 Speaker 1 Okay. So-

1:17:15 Speaker 4 I f- That story, that story was, was very touching.

1:17:19 Speaker 1 So, so the Rebbe told us to go to Kfar Chabad for two years.

1:17:24 Speaker 4 Told you?

1:17:24 Speaker 1 No, no, no. They told... The Rebbe said to go to one of four cities.

1:17:29 Speaker 4 Told-

1:17:29 Speaker 1 You could either-

1:17:30 Speaker 4 Told who?

1:17:31 Speaker 1 Bachurim.

1:17:31 Speaker 4 Uh, uh-huh.

1:17:32 Speaker 1 From my... From... I know it was from Morristown, from a bunch of different yeshivas, to go for two years to either Montreal, Birminghama, and Eretz Israel. In Eretz Israel, either Yerushalayim or Kfar Chabad. So I'd already been to Montreal, and between Birmingham and Eretz Israel, I'd rather go to Eretz Israel. Between Yerushalayim and Kfar Chabad, I'd rather go to Kfar Chabad, 'cause right up the street is Lod, and I had an aunt and uncle in Lod. And in Yerushalayim, it would get colder, and it would rain more, and it... I did... It wasn't for me. So I went to Kfar Chabad. Um, I'm so tempted to say other stories. Okay, I'll try to stay on this story 'cause there's everywhere, so many stories. So-

1:18:16 Speaker 4 We'll, we'll, we'll come back around to it. Don't worry.

1:18:18 Speaker 1 Okay. So, um, so actually I was made it... Oh, oh, oh, I can't. Excuse me, everybody. It's very hard to... Okay. So I have four grand mal seizures. No warning. Well, actually the first time what happened was after my concussion, when I would write, I would have... It's called a hand jerk. So you're writing, and your hand goes like that. And so when I do that, I would pause till my hand was, uh... No one told me to, but I would just pause for a while, and then when my hand felt better, I'd go back to writing. And, uh, I was at my aunt and uncle's house in Lod. I was writing a letter to my parents, and I get this hand jerk, and I think to myself, "It's been going on for years. Why don't you just write again?" So I wrote again, again, and again, again. And then it's, it's called a extending. So my, my right elbow extended, then my left elbow extended, then my knees extended, so it shot me up, and then my neck extended, so I'm like this. And I'm thinking, "Okay." I was just, you know... And I see my aunt and uncle coming out of, out of room, and I open my mouth to say something, and nothing comes out. And the next thing I wake up in a bed in a different room. And my uncle or my aunt, whatever, they brought me to the room, and I'm in town bed. And so the doctor comes,

1:20:14 Speaker 1 and I ask him, "How long did it take you to get here?" He said, "About 15 minutes." Now, normally, if you're out for five minutes, you go into a semi-coma. If you're out for 10 minutes, you go into full coma, irreversible brain damage. And I, I had amnesia for about 15 minutes, which is perfectly normal, and I didn't... At the time, I didn't have irreversible brain damage. Came out later. And the Rebbe helped a lot with it. Um-

1:21:02 Speaker 4 What does that mean? Your parents wrote in for a bracha?

1:21:06 Speaker 1 No, no, actually, that's another whole story. Um, uh, I'll tell you-

1:21:14 Speaker 4 Okay, okay

1:21:15 Speaker 1 ... I'll tell you that story afterwards.

1:21:16 Speaker 4 Shell it for a minute? Okay.

1:21:17 Speaker 1 Yeah. So, um, so one day, I don't remember when it was. It was within a year of... So I, I came to Kfar Chabad, it was this, uh, Teves, so it's Teves, Lamed He. Yeah, Lamed He.

1:21:42 Speaker 4 So you, you had already told the Rebbe you're out, but you're still in the system?

1:21:46 Speaker 1 No, I was in Kfar Chabad.

1:21:47 Speaker 4 No, but hadn't you told the Rebbe you're out of Yiddishkeit, you're done with Yiddishkeit?

1:21:51 Speaker 1 I told him that many times as a teenager.

1:21:53 Speaker 4 But you were still in the system.

1:21:55 Speaker 1 I was still frum.

1:21:56 Speaker 4 But in your mind, you were out. You were checked out.

1:21:59 Speaker 1 No.

1:21:59 Speaker 4 So-

1:22:00 Speaker 1 No, I wasn't checked out.

1:22:01 Speaker 4 So what were you saying that you were done?

1:22:07 Speaker 1 Well, I made deals.

1:22:11 Speaker 4 With who?

1:22:13 Speaker 1 With my father and the Rebbe. My father and the Rebbe kind of played good cop, bad cop.

1:22:20 Speaker 4 Good cop, bad cop.

1:22:20 Speaker 1 It wasn't, it wasn't really good cop, bad cop, but I know everything that my father told me that he would tell the Rebbe, so we're all on the same page. So it, it actually came from my father's mouth, but my father would say to me, "Give me two more years. Just two more years."

1:22:44 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

1:22:44 Speaker 1 "Give me two years."

1:22:46 Speaker 4 They hoped that you would turn around eventually.

1:22:48 Speaker 1 Well, I mean, it didn't have... I still kept Shabbos. I mean, taken with my own... It's-

1:22:53 Speaker 4 No, but they-

1:22:54 Speaker 1 That didn't mean anything but-

1:22:54 Speaker 4 They hoped that you would come around internally.

1:23:04 Speaker 1 Hope is not a word.

1:23:06 Speaker 4 Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

1:23:09 Speaker 1 See, everything, everything is bitachon. Either you have it or you don't.

1:23:14 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

1:23:16 Speaker 1 Okay? So it's gonna happen.

1:23:19 Speaker 4 So they trusted you'd turn around, is what you want to say?

1:23:21 Speaker 1 No, they knew I was gonna turn around.

1:23:22 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

1:23:25 Speaker 1 The Rebbe knew I was gonna turn around, but my father knew. Um, it, it's kind of interesting because when I came frum-

1:23:31 Speaker 4 It, it... So sorry. So, so, so-

1:23:32 Speaker 1 Okay, so I have to finish the story.

1:23:33 Speaker 4 So, so, so-

1:23:34 Speaker 1 Okay, so let me finish the story

1:23:34 Speaker 4 ... you wanna tell another one?

1:23:35 Speaker 1 Don't ask me. Just wait a second. So now you're getting off the story. So anyway, so one day, um, I wanted to say... It was, uh, there weren't a lot of people around. I was in the zal, and I wanted to say Kirsh man bizman.

1:23:53 Speaker 4 In Kfar Chabad?

1:23:54 Speaker 1 In Kfar Chabad. And then afterwards, I'll put on tefillin, but-

1:23:58 Speaker 4 Okay

1:23:59 Speaker 1 ... right now I need to put on... I need to say Kirsh in time. So I put my hand over my eyes, I said Shema, and then I couldn't remember the next word. Why can't I remember the next word? Just don't even think to say the next word, so I don't think, and nothing comes out. Ah, there's a siddur right here. I can open the siddur. I'll open the siddur. Make sense? Open the siddur. I've never read this before. I can't even... I can't read Hebrew. I can't read Hebrew. So I went to, I went to front, it had Nekudot in half place. So I go to Nekudot. I've never seen this. No idea. So I knew Matiyashu Knazi because we all, all ate by Baba Tim, I, I... So Gersh Mendel Gubrelik is my uncle, both my uncle, and so he has two sisters there.

1:24:58 Speaker 4 Right.

1:24:59 Speaker 1 Um, don't ask me. Pearlin or something like that. And, uh, Azimof, may... I can't remember the names. Anyway, so-

1:25:10 Speaker 4 There, there, there will be, there, there will be people listening who know

1:25:12 Speaker 1 ... I used to go Friday night to one and-

1:25:15 Speaker 4 Okay

1:25:15 Speaker 1 ... Shabbos day by the other. And my cousin would go to Matiyashu, Matiyashu Knazi. So I was very much at home with him. I very much trusted him and his Torah, and so he was... They called him the machmir, and there was another rav, they called him the maker. So if you really want an answer, you'd go to Mati. So I knew that if I went to Mati, he'll tell me, "Well, there's nothing I can do. I mean, you just gotta do everything you do, can do." So I go to Mati, and he says to me, "Not only are you not mechuyav to daven, you're mechayav it's a tefillah, it's a tefillin or whatever, be kavannah." And, you know, it's like the, the cock... the, the, the rooster story- ... except you don't wanna be that person, but that was the only answer you get.

1:26:13 Speaker 4 So you said-

1:26:14 Speaker 1 So he said, "Your kavannah, just the kavannah, that split second of your kavannah-

1:26:19 Speaker 4 Mm

1:26:20 Speaker 1 ... you reach a higher level of shomayim that if I was in shul tefillin all day, I wouldn't come close to it." The problem I had was-

1:26:30 Speaker 4 It's a very powerful story

1:26:32 Speaker 1 ... the problem I had was no one believed me.

1:26:37 Speaker 4 That Mati told you, that, that Rabbi Ashkenazi told you this?

1:26:39 Speaker 1 Couldn't be.

1:26:41 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

1:26:42 Speaker 1 And then with memory, you don't have a memory. In this, I had a problem in high school. I couldn't take a test. "What do you mean you can't take a test?" And I remember in high school, I had Shrey was my teacher one year, and he had a Chumash test every Sunday. I could study for it and study for it. I'd come to the class, and nothing was there. So if he had a multiple choice, so I would just pick ones, you know? So after About a half a year, my average was from all the tests was seven. So I was, wasn't even good at guessing. Total guessing it was. I got my name right, and that was about it. So he takes me down to Tenenbaum, and they, and they were both gullible. If you, if you've never met a gullible person in your life, you had to have met one of these people. Tell them Amish anything in the world, and they'll eat it up. So they said, "If you don't take the test, we're gonna have to suspend you for two weeks." I said, "But I can't. I have no memory." He said, "What do you mean you have no memory? Everybody... No one else has a problem." I said, "I don't know about anyone else, but I have no memory." He said, "We're gonna have to suspend you for two weeks." I said, "Two weeks. Two weeks. You know, you see my hair is long. I, I'll comb it. Don't worry

1:28:06 Speaker 1 about that. I'll comb it. It'll look really nice." And, um, two weeks. Make it four weeks, because what can I do in two weeks? I'll take my yamulka off. I'll go to the movies. I'll sleep with girls. I just kept going on and on and on. I talked to a girl, but I didn't even have the gear. That'd be... I would- didn't even have a, a yitzt harut for the gear. It was just ain't happening. So, "No, no, no, no, no. It's-- We don't wanna kick you out." "We just want you to take this test." I said, "Okay. I'll make a deal with you." He said, "Yep." "If I don't take the test, you'll kick me out for two weeks." "Well, well, if I don't take the test, you won't kick me out at all. So what it's gonna be?" So that was my... But the problem was no one believes me. Now, I always had a ta'inah. I'm gonna get off for a second. I always had a ta'inah to the Eibishter. I have one ta'inah. Why did you make it so hard for me to talk to you? I was 15. What did I do that was so bad? And that was my ta'inah to the Eibishter. I had a ta'inah to the Rebbe.

1:29:31 Speaker 4 About your memory.

1:29:32 Speaker 1 Well, this was the ta'inah. My ta'inah to the Rebbe was, "You told me when I was a bocher that I sh- I should learn Chitas every day. I learned Chitas every day. So now I can't even read Hebrew. What are you playing with me for?" That's my ta'inah. That was my only ta'inah.

1:29:53 Speaker 4 You, did you enunciate it to the Rebbe? Did you say it to the Rebbe?

1:29:56 Speaker 1 No.

1:29:57 Speaker 4 But that was in your mind?

1:29:58 Speaker 1 Yeah. So, see, and also there was something different by me, and I just thought it was perfectly normal, is what makes... This is, okay, this is the difference. And I wouldn't talk about it because I heard that if you talk about it, then it's like saying you're a, a, an onof. Oh, look at me, I'm an onof, you know. If you say it, then you're surely not. But this is how I was. I didn't need to tell anybody, but this was my personality. When I either wrote to the Rebbe, even, even at from 14 to 16, every single day I wrote to the Rebbe, and I got my answer the next day, okay? Because that was the phone. There was no phone in the dorm or in the yeshiva, so I'd have to walk and to the hotel. It was a hotel on whatever street that was. There's a highway down below. So I only wrote chasidis, and this was my way of thinking. If I had a problem with my bo- my health, I'll ask the Eibishter. Because Eibishter, I don't need the answer right away. I know I'm gonna get the answer when He's ready to give it to me, when I need it. That's when I'll get the answer. Chasidis, I needed the answer right away. You give me the answer right away, then I can give my next answer because based on what you tell me, that's what my, my next question is gonna be. And I, I never heard a

1:31:35 Speaker 1 complaint from anybody because the very first Shabbos that I was in when I was 16, that I, I went to 770. I go upstairs Shabbos morning. I go into the tzall from one direction, and this fellow walks in from the other direction. And we get to the middle, and he starts talking to me. He says, "My name is Binyamin Klein. You know I'm friends with your father." He said, "I wanna meet you upstairs, up here every Shabbos morning. We'll sit over there on the benches. You'll tell me about your week, the good, the bad, everything. I wanna be your father. Be your father. Whatever you tell your father, that's what you tell me." I said, "Everything?" "Everything." So he already knew everything I asked the Rebbe, and he knew how, how to answer me because he ha- saw how the Rebbe answered me. And I wasn't just anybody. I was one of those that knew how the Rebbe talked, or at least how he talked to me.

1:32:49 Speaker 4 So putting this all together as we're, as I'm trying to-

1:32:52 Speaker 1 So I never compared myself to anybody else

1:32:54 Speaker 4 ... Putting this all together as I'm try- as I try to make sense of, of this fascinating, bewildering story, you said earlier that y- your father and the Rebbe would encourage you to give it some more time, some more time, learn more, learn more, you know, don't focus on the negative. Keep on, keep on adding, um, uh, learning and, and other positive things.

1:33:25 Speaker 1 I'll tell you, I'll tell you what the Rebbe did for me. I'll tell you what the Rebbe did for me. So I came back to the States, it was in seventeen seventy. And so at the Razag, whatever that's, it's also on seventeen seventy. We had a class for Yidei for Tzmichah. Now I couldn't read, so I had, I had a Chevrusa. He would do the reading, and then we'd talk. Now, I had Shimus from my father. I had the experience from my father and all the questions. I knew all the questions because all those years of hearing all the Shaitas and the answers.

1:34:08 Speaker 4 Right.

1:34:08 Speaker 1 And it was all my language. I mean, it was just part of who I was.

1:34:13 Speaker 4 Right.

1:34:13 Speaker 1 So I didn't have to memorize anything.

1:34:15 Speaker 4 Right.

1:34:15 Speaker 1 That was me. So whoever was doing it comes over and he says, "Well, why aren't you saying anything? Why aren't you reading?" I said, "I can't read." He said, "Well, then I kick you out." I said, "Well, I can't read." He said, "I kick you out." I said, "Okay, no problem. Farhad me. Test me." "No, I refuse to test you. I kick you out." So now I have a choice. I know, I know for a fact that if I go to the Rebbe and tell him that he's just kicking me out, he won't Farhad me, the world will get back to him really quickly, and he'll Farhad me. He'll let you do anything. Okay? I'll get my Smicha.

1:35:00 Speaker 4 All right.

1:35:02 Speaker 1 But I, it would give the Rebbe a Nefesh that he has such a, a, a teacher that teaches, that treats a student so poorly. I didn't want to give that. That's not worth it. The Eibish said, "I have, I have, uh, I have Bitachon." I always have to think of the word Munafurs to get Bitachon. "I have Bitachon that everything will be fine." So I'm good.

1:35:29 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:35:29 Speaker 1 I'm good. So I go back to Nashville. I took a year off, and I didn't know what to do. I can't do anything. Mamish nothing. And I'm Frum. Tzitzit out, full beard. Didn't, I mean, I, I, the only time I comb my beard was brush it after you take a shower, you have to brush it out so it doesn't get knots or whatever. I didn't put anything in my beard. It didn't smell, you know. That's not so, that's so, that's so Gashmistik. I couldn't do such a thing. Now, when I was 15 years old, I asked the Rebbe Rishus to go to college when I finished high school, and the Rebbe answered me Mufrich Legamri. My father also asked Rishus when he came to Nashville. He asked the Rebbe Rishus to go to Vanderbilt University. He wants to study philosophy, and the Rebbe said, "Permish me, I finished." I think, I think it was called the Lange Briv. I don't, I don't know if that was my fa- But I know it was a, a letter because I had a nice conversation with my father afterwards. I asked him, in his older, older years, I asked him, "How did you feel when the Rebbe gave me a Shus, a Shus and a Bracha to go to college, and he wouldn't let you go to college?" He smiled from ear to ear. It was like, "Wow." So what happened was-

1:36:51 Speaker 4 So what do you think that meant?

1:36:52 Speaker 1 Oh, he was so happy.

1:36:54 Speaker 4 That what?

1:36:55 Speaker 1 That, so I'll tell you in a second, you'll understand. That I went to co- That the Rebbe gave me a Shus and a Bracha to go to college. So what happened was, um, a friend that my parents were Mekarev, her, her husband was never anything Yiddish. It wasn't until after they retired that they had, had a kosher home, and they went to actually a Chabad house. But, but, um, she says, I said, "I can't do anything." She said, "Mendy, you can do anything." I have a f- I have... And so I said, I told her what I could do. I liked special ed. So she said, "Look, I'm friends with the head of special ed at Peabody." Peabody was a teacher's college. It's now part of Vanderbilt. "You'll talk to him." I said, "I can't read. I can't write. I can't take notes. I can't test, take tests. How am I gonna be in college?" She said, "They'll work it out for you." So I went there, and I spoke with him. Over two days, I spoke with him for three hours, and he said, "I want you to go to school here." And I said, "Why? You don't know me." He said, "Well, I'll see how you do. You'll set an example. You can do it. And I'll give you your own office in my suite of offices, and one of my secretaries will do all your typing for you, so you don't have to write any papers. And you'll have your own phone,

1:38:38 Speaker 1 and if you get tired, just shut the door. You have a key to the door, to the office. You just shut the door and shut the light and just sleep. Whatever you need." Now, I was Frum. In fact, someone asked me, a professor asked me if I could speak in tongues. What's tongues in Hebrew? L'shainis, languages. I said, "Of course we all can speak in tongues." To them, tongues is some kind of gibberish thing that, you know, they're going.

1:39:07 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:39:08 Speaker 1 Oh, I didn't know that either. Tongues. So now I'm like, you know, an angel. So my, I get a call. It was my father's secretary. Been the secretary for many years. She says, "Your father is hopping mad. I've never seen him so mad. And he wants to see you right now, immediately, as soon as you can get here. I don't know what it is, but he's mad. I've never seen him so mad." So I go there. My father says, "So, you're going to college?" I said, "Yeah." He said, "Did you ask the Rebbe?" I said, "No." He said, "Why not?" I said, "Well, because if I ask the Rebbe, and the Rebbe says no, I'm gonna go anyway. I have to go. The reason I have to go is because society has accepted me." I had, I was taking this vocational stuff to see what I could do.

1:40:09 Speaker 4 Right.

1:40:09 Speaker 1 I could do nothing. Nothing. Mamish. Because I had such a tremor. I didn't have the fine motor.

1:40:17 Speaker 4 Right.

1:40:18 Speaker 1 I, I mean, I could mamish. I couldn't, like the retarded, they, they do beads, yeah?

1:40:22 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:40:22 Speaker 1 I couldn't do that.

1:40:23 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:40:24 Speaker 1 I mean, mamish nothing. So, so I went to college, and the next semester I told my father, "Okay, now you can ask the Rebbe. Says, no, I won't go. But if the Rebbe says, the shul's permission to go, I need a handful of brachos. I need a bracha to have..." Reading wasn't a problem, it was retention. I could read it, but I wouldn't remember anything I read.

1:41:02 Speaker 4 Right.

1:41:03 Speaker 1 I need the retention. I could not write, okay? I couldn't take a test, I couldn't take notes.

1:41:10 Speaker 4 Right.

1:41:10 Speaker 1 And there's a whole bunch of... There was like five or six brachos, and you need to tell the Rebbe like this. "If you really don't want me to go to college, then don't give me the brachos. You know, deep down you don't want me to go, don't give me the brachos, and I won't go."

1:41:27 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

1:41:28 Speaker 1 "But if you really want me to go, then I need the brachos." And I told the Rebbe where I was going to college. Now, a teacher's college, it's like 99.99999% female.

1:41:39 Speaker 4 Right.

1:41:40 Speaker 1 And they don't dress tzniusdik, and I'm a Hasidish bachur, still a bachur. And they gave, Rebbe gave me the shul and all these brachos.

1:41:53 Speaker 4 Really?

1:41:54 Speaker 1 Yeah. And it was a couple months later. So I was used to learning Bechoros, okay? There's no computers.

1:42:04 Speaker 4 Right.

1:42:04 Speaker 1 Okay? Um, I remember one time I had to write a position paper. So I write this paper, and I show it to a friend of mine in class. "Is this a position paper?" She said, "No, it's not." It... So she told me, "Hey," she... Well, the person told me... Yeah, it was, she, it was a girl. She told me what a position paper is. I made a mistake. I brought it in on Monday. I thought it was due Monday. No, it's not due till Wednesday. I brought it back on Wednesday, I got 100, okay? So that's... So I'm there a couple months, and I used... I shared an office. They gave me a... I was in grad school, actually. I was in grad school. So I went from, actually from ninth grade to grad school. I can tell you about that afterwards if you like. So, and I did it APA style. So APA is like an inch from here, an half an inch, and the whole thing. I don't know how to set margins. I have no idea.

1:43:04 Speaker 4 Right.

1:43:04 Speaker 1 So I took a ruler, and I drew it out, yeah, on a, a thinner piece of paper. So when I put the paper over, it's perfect. It took me forever to type it 'cause there was no... You had to put the-

1:43:21 Speaker 4 Right

1:43:21 Speaker 1 ... whiteout or something. You know, it wasn't like nowadays. It was perfect. Everything I did was perfect. That's just what you do. I'm, I'm a shliach. I mean, the Rebbe said how many times, the Rebbe say to go to a girls' school, I don't know.

1:43:39 Speaker 4 So you thought you were a shliach there?

1:43:41 Speaker 1 Sure, sure. I started out even before I took a course. I started out with early childhood education. Had no background in it. I taught... It was handicapped and non-handicapped together, and they were age 21 months to four years. I'd never... With my, maybe my nieces and nephews or something, but I never, not teaching. So I did the first semester, and then I thought, I said to him I wanted to the second semester, same kids. And I told the teachers, 'cause usually it was like two teachers in a classroom, two teachers and an aide or whatever. And I said to them, "I wanna work with the hardest child you have that no one has ever been able to work with, and tell me what they need." And so they, they gave me the child, duldich, I mean, he would lose attention by just the floor.

1:44:40 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:44:40 Speaker 1 He'd pick at the rug, whatever. Just... So I took him... There's a room that you observe. I took that room, so it was quiet. You couldn't hear anything. And he was just wild. So I had to teach him, um, to finish a task. This is a child that has zero attention span. I mean, nothing. If you pointed to th- to three dots and say, "One, two, three," he couldn't even get to the one. He was already looking around the room. The other thing is, once you get him to complete the task well, then bring him into the classroom and teach him how to socially interact. And I thought... I remember the first day was 10 seconds, and the teacher said, "That's it?" I said, "Yeah, that's it." I have all the patience in the world. I mean, these are the Rebbe's kinderlach, you know?

1:45:41 Speaker 4 Right.

1:45:41 Speaker 1 And they have such a hard time, the least I can do is give them everything. And I taught him everything, and that was without classes. There was nothing. So I'm not gonna major in that because it's too easy. I need a challenge. So the next thing I went into was mental retardation Now this was a child that knew two words, mommy and baby. He was baby, I was mommy. I said, "My name is Mendel, and your name is Timmy," or whatever. And that's it. You're not a baby, and I'm not a mommy. And I taught him so much. I thought, "This is so easy." And I went from one to the next, the next until I found something that was very challenging. Plus you had, had to do all the academics and change the diapers g- because these were kids that were non-ambulatory-

1:46:33 Speaker 4 Right

1:46:34 Speaker 1 ... non-verbal.

1:46:35 Speaker 4 Mm.

1:46:36 Speaker 1 They... And, and they didn't have range of motion. So if they have range of motion, it may take a while to get, get their hand to their mouth.

1:46:44 Speaker 4 Right.

1:46:45 Speaker 1 No, no range of motion. So it was, um... So I specialized in feeding techniques of severely brain damaged children. So these children, they was kind of rotted out in the mouth. They had no idea how to chew, how to swallow. So when you eat, you put your food on the tongue, on your tongue, and then you lateralize it. So you move it to the right and you chew, move it to the left and you chew until you're ready to swallow it, then you swallow it. But they can't do any of those things, and, and that was just one thing. I mean, you're teaching academics, so the teacher said, "Okay, so let's hear you teaching colors. This is blue, this is red, and so you see that and just know which one is which, and then put your hands as far apart as possible, and whichever one they look at, that's the answer." And with pronouns and just regular academics, everything. And, and this is my magic story. I told you I had a magic story, so let's... Then if you wanna take a break, whatever you wanna do. So this is my magic story. So one day I'm teaching a math c- uh, it was two kids I taught, and so they were in a wheelchair, so I pick them up off the wheelchair and I put them down. And one day the teacher's standing there for however long, a half hour at least. She's standing behind the kids, and I'm like, "Boy, I must

1:48:17 Speaker 1 be m- messing everything up." I mean, how, why else would she be standing there? So I'm finished. I put the kids back in the classroom, and I come back to straight with room, and I said, "Okay, what am I doing wrong?" She said, "I want your magic." I said, "Magic? What do you mean magic?" She said, "I've been doing this for 10 years. I specialize in these kids, and this is the end of the second year in a row that I have them. I want your magic. How do you get them to point? They can't point. They can only do it with their eyes. You come off the street, you're a stranger. They don't even know you. You're only there for the practicum." The practicum is supposed to be 20 hours, but in the year I put in over 100 hours, and then I added another 50 hours to work in other classrooms, and I told them I wanna be a substitute. It can be a different classroom every time because I wanna, I wanna prove to myself that I can teach any child. So she said, "They can't point." I said, "Oh, yeah, they, they've always pointed." She said, "I get they can't. They physically can't. How do you get them to do it? A stranger off the street, in no time they're pointing." I said, "It's really quite easy." I see this is how I talk. I just talk.

1:49:48 Speaker 4 Right.

1:49:49 Speaker 1 And it's, it's, you know... I said, "You know, it's really quite easy." I said, "All you have to do is you have... And actually this works for anybody. It works for your wife, your children, your students, mamesh, anybody it works." Doesn't always work with my wife, but, um, sometimes I'm not as patient as I should be, but there's two things you have to do. It's just two things. You have to love the child more than you love yourself. What does it mean to love them more than yourself? You know, it says, it says in «» I think that you can't «», you can't actually love more than yourself. I can prove that you can, okay? The way you love a child that the only time you see him is for a few minutes every day, or through if, if they're your students, so a few hours a day. The way you love a child more than yourself is when you go to bed at night, you're only thinking, "How can I make this child's life easier?" You wake up in the morning, that's what you think. Go to the bathroom, you bring a manual with you. Forget about your stupid newspaper and your all this «», don't do any «», only the child. The other thing is treat that child like they're perfectly normal. There is absolutely... Okay, fine, you may not play in NFL. Well, I can't play in NFL either. Okay, you're not ambulatory, so maybe you won't walk. Well, not everybody walks.

1:51:26 Speaker 1 But you've got a mind. You're a genius. You point. Why do you point? Because I treat you like everybody else. You love me because I love you.

1:51:42 Speaker 4 So how does this trace back to the Rebbe? That's, uh, my interest.

1:51:45 Speaker 1 So it traces back with, to the Rebbe... This is gonna be a hard one 'cause this was a really long yechidas. So it was my last yechidas. So it was lamed daled, and I was born in Adar, Adar Sheni, but I, I don't remember if this was a, a leap year, leap year. I was born a leap year, but I don't remember if this was a leap year or not, but it was the end of Adar where And so my, my rebbe came over to me, Meylech Tzvi. I, I, I never called him Meylech. My rebbe, I never call by my first name, the first name except Richmeier because he asked me to call Richmeier. Um, he asked me if I was going in Yechidas, and he wasn't really asking a question. He just... And I said, "No." He said, "What do you mean no?" I said, "I'm not." He said, "You have to." I said, "No, I don't." He said, "Well, are you gonna die?" I said, "Look, I'm just a bachur. I don't have to waste the Rebbe's time. I'll write my tovot, my question, whatever. I'll give it to Moskiurus. Moskiurus will give it to the Rebbe, and I'll get my broche." About two months later, I had, I had over twenty questions, and I had... I needed an answer. And so I went to Meylech and I said, "Look, I didn't go in for my Yemei Iedis. Can I have rechus to go in now to get my rechus?" And so

1:53:15 Speaker 1 one of the questions was, "What should I do th- in the summer?" And I came like five or six choices, and one of the choices was... Well, so the Rebbe's choice was, and it was a longer answer than I normally get. So the Rebbe's choice was that I should sit and learn in Morristown, because Morristown is different than all the other yeshivas. But when we sit and learned, now the Rebbe knew I had no memory.

1:53:50 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:53:51 Speaker 1 So why would he pick that one? So Rebbe, um, Rebbe gave me a broche that's ad hayom. It's still a broche for me. And the Rebbe said to me, "Du vas farshteyn az alts vas G-t protesia." You have to understand that everything is divine providence. Ve ish- as it state in, ve, ve ish state in posek Hashem Shem Yocheved, Hashem tzuchu yade minecha. It says in Tehillim that, uh, Hashem will watch you, Hashem will shield you with your right arm, with his right arm. Now, in Chassidus it means b'ruchnius. And it also means b'gashmius.

1:54:37 Speaker 4 Right.

1:54:38 Speaker 1 That was Thursday night. Shabbos night we went to Chidush. We used to have a drive from Buring to Chidush. Uh, we had a, a, a electric stove. So I, I didn't know gas stove, you turn it on, it goes, it goes up in the, it goes up.

1:54:55 Speaker 4 Right.

1:54:55 Speaker 1 So I leaned over to light a cigarette, I turned it on, boom. It burns me. So I go like this and I see something on my hand. I smell it, it's burnt. So it's here in my, my eyelashes to my eyes and my head. I used to have hair. It's over here.

1:55:13 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:55:15 Speaker 1 And we go back to Morristown. Sunday it started to hurt me. Monday already it's, it's almost swimming. It looks like swimming. And they told me that there's this doctor in the Bo-Bo-Bolshevist side. Um, just as an aside, we call it's, everyone ca-called it the other side, and the other side in Aramaic is Sitra Achra.

1:55:46 Speaker 4 Right.

1:55:46 Speaker 1 Sitra Achra is the other side, but Sitra Achra doesn't mean...

1:55:49 Speaker 4 Right.

1:55:50 Speaker 1 Anyway, so, so the doctor tells me, "You should go to a doctor immediately." I mean, uh, for your eyes. "Because s-such intense heat burns the cornea into eyes, and I don't k-know why you're not blind." So I made an appointment and on Wednesday... A-and I tell him the story, what the Rebbe said to me. He said, "You know, if I didn't know about the Rebbe, I never would have believed it happened because you should be blind, completely blind. There is nothing wrong with your eyes. You'll get through a little red. I'll give you a little something like this, put, put your eyes, and that's it." So, um, the, the Rebbe s-said I shou-should learn at Morristown, so I came out of Yechidas. Now, when you went to Yechidas, and B-B-At least for me, B-Binyamin was doing the Yechidas. He opened the door and I went in, then he closed the door, and he did not touch the door until I opened it. He didn't pull it, pull my jacket or anything. However long I was in there, I was in there. So and then I would tell him what the Rebbe said, so that... And then he would tell me to write it down. But I would tell him right away what he said, because you know I was gonna forget it right away. This way he could tell me. So what happened was he says, "Ah, there's Meshuchart. You've got to tell him what happened, what the Rebbe said about Morristown." So I told

1:57:25 Speaker 1 him. So he said, "Anything you want, anything you want, I'll do for you." He was just like, you know. I said, "Anything?" He said, "Yeah." I said, "Well, I'm gonna need a degree. I probably need a degree, but, um, I made this BM at Morristown a year." Rebbe-

1:57:44 Speaker 4 So let, let, let's try to wrap this up. Let's try to, for the people listening, let's try to wrap this up.

1:57:48 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:57:48 Speaker 4 So if, if I have sum up, if summing up what, what we've been talking about the past couple hours, it's, it's certainly a, a, a very ind-individual... It starts off as an individual journey and ends off as an individual journey. We haven't even covered-

1:58:05 Speaker 1 Okay

1:58:05 Speaker 4 ... the coming. One second.

1:58:06 Speaker 1 Okay.

1:58:06 Speaker 4 The coming, the coming and the going and everything. But w-we, we... Looking back on this story, looking back on this story, uh, decades later- You said that your father and the rabbi trusted or knew that you were gonna either stay or come back one day. Do you feel, do you feel... And you spoke also about, um, not causing the Rabos Nefesh. When you look back on your story years later, that includes many, many turns and, and, and, and detours from the straight and narrow path. Do you feel that, um, this is a story of Nachas Ruach? Do-- What, what do you feel? What, what, what do you feel?

1:58:51 Speaker 1 So there's one... Look, I'll tell, tell you one last story.

1:58:54 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:58:54 Speaker 1 Just one. So when I went to college, I came back for Tisha B'Av, part of Tisha B'Av, and my friends asked me what I'm doing. And I said... I told them the whole story.

1:59:10 Speaker 4 Right.

1:59:11 Speaker 1 And as soon as I finished the story, they said-- they called me a Shaygets.

1:59:16 Speaker 4 Really?

1:59:16 Speaker 1 And they wouldn't talk to me. They put me in Cheydim. Not a game actually, even after I became frum. Not a word. So I went, you know, where the, the ceiling is lower near the bathrooms. So just happened that, uh, what's his name? Gershon Grosspont was in Townsend's film. And he asks me, "So what are you doing? How are you doing?" Whatever. So I said, "Uh, keep busy," 'cause I'm not gonna hear from him that I'm a Shaygets. Now, I'm, I'm frum. Everything. Frum, kashrus, everything. So he says, "But doing what?" I said, "Keep him busy." He said, "But what are you doing?" And so I told him the story, and he smiles. I said, "What are you smiling for?" He said, "What do you mean what am I smiling for? I know more than the Rebbe knows. That's incredible." I said, "But none of my friends will talk to me." He said, "Oh, so they know more than the Rebbe that I can't even go there."

2:00:34 Speaker 4 Huh.

2:00:36 Speaker 1 So I would go to all... I was known to go to all the Chasidas, even when I fried out, I went to all the Chasidas. Um, my cousins, their kids, I mean, all the Chasidas went. And no one would talk to me. I mean, my family would talk to me, but guys that I went to yeshiva all my life. I went to my, my nephew's wedding, Mendy, Mendy Darren Yisroel BB's.

2:01:05 Speaker 4 Right.

2:01:05 Speaker 1 Yeah. I went to his Chassan, who married Yisroel. I think it was in Yerushalayim. And there was an English fellow there. And I said, "Do you know anybody here?" He said, "Just the family. Your family." He said, "We're all the family."

2:01:24 Speaker 4 Yeah.

2:01:25 Speaker 1 So I said, "This is what's gonna happen. We're gonna be standing here talking. No one knows you, and they're going to say Shalom Aleichem to you, Mazel Tov, and maybe even have a conversation. They won't even say a word to me. They've known me most of my life." Someone came over, didn't say a word to me. After he walked away, I said, "Oh, he's my cousin." Wrap your head around that. So my brother's getting mar... Fast-forward, my brother's getting married in London to Shmolu's daughter. And my parents asked me to come for the Uvruf and the Chassan. I said, "No one talks to me, and a bunch of black hatters." And I was frei. In gantzem frei. There's actually such a thing as in gantzem frei. And look, I agreed. "Okay, fine, I'll come for the Uvruf. Chassan, I'm not staying a week with these people." Thursday night, my parents went with my brother for a broche. After the Rebbe gave them a broche, he asked by name, who's going to the wedding? Shifra Rita, that's Bibi? "Yes, she's going." "Menachem Mendel?" "No." And he went through the names. The Rebbe didn't say anything. My father tells me, "Maybe it was Shabbos night, tomorrow morning, the Rebbe's giving out dollars. I want you to go for dollars." So I, I wasn't gonna go. I, I, I said to myself, "I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid. I'm not gonna go to the Rebbe frei. It's just not gonna happen." The Rebbe's gonna say, he's,

2:03:48 Speaker 1 he's gonna say something. He always had something to say. I think he looked with a roll his eyes. He'll do something. And I just talk about Rabos Nefesh. It's not happening. And so, and you know, you know why I wasn't going. So 'cause he knew everything about me. I mean, no secrets. So I, I said, "I don't believe it. I don't believe in dollar shmalers. I don't believe it." My father said something rarely. It was two words. He rarely used it. And he knew if, if he said it, then I would get the candy, or he would get the candy. But it always happened. Okay? So he says to me, "Kibud Av." Kibud Av is Kibud Av. I don't have a choice, so I go for the dollar. So the Rebbe's very smart. This is what he did. Smart. He gives my father a dollar, and he gives me a dollar. Now, he knows I'm going back to work tonight, so I don't have a ticket. Probably don't have a passport, or you would've heard about it. Wedding's, I think, Wednesday night, and this is Sunday morning. So, so he said, "Rebbe gives my father dollar." Then he gives me a dollar, and, and then he give me a second dollar, and he said to me, "So get him off stock in London." That's what happened.

2:06:01 Speaker 5 You should give, you should give it for Seforim-

2:06:03 Speaker 1 Get him off stock in London

2:06:04 Speaker 5 ... in London.

2:06:05 Speaker 1 Now those were the days when Rebbe, he, he stopped giving dollars. And just to go back to my Yechidut, my last Yechidut, Tishrei, Lamed Heh, the Rebbe said in Hasicha, "What's this thing o- of bochurim getting a dollar every, for every birthday? They can write to Pan and give it to Moskiris. Moskiris will give it to, to me, and look at the beracha." And I went, "Yes!"

2:06:35 Speaker 5 No Yechidutim.

2:06:37 Speaker 1 That stopped Yechidutim. There was no Yechidutim afterwards. That's what I'm told my Mashpia, exactly what I told my Mashpia in Oder. We spoke the same language.

2:06:50 Speaker 5 Uh-huh.

2:06:51 Speaker 1 So that's what it is. So that's my Rebbe crying. So I went inside, I cried. It's heaven.

2:07:04 Speaker 5 Powerful story.

2:07:05 Speaker 1 Yeah.

2:07:06 Speaker 5 I think that's a right note to, to end this. Thank you very much. It's been qui- quite a ride to-

2:07:12 Speaker 1 Yeah

2:07:12 Speaker 5 ... been quite a ride today. Um, you should have many, many years of, of, uh, health and simcha, and Sameach Bechol Yemei Chayei.

2:07:22 Speaker 1 Amen.

2:07:23 Speaker 5 Thank you. Thank you, Mendel. The music for this podcast comes from the album "Repentance Doors" by Oren Dror and Nadav Bachar, and is used with their permission.