האם נסיר את הסכינים מהשולחן גם כשיבוא משיח?

00:00 Speaker 1 Welcome to another shiur on Hilchos HaMashiach. This shiur, which is about whether we will need to take off knives from our tables when Mashiach comes. As we will see, it's connected this week's Parsha, and it's also Lil Nishmash, Mashiach, Zvi Ben Alexander HaCohen, Hashem Yikom Damai, who had a special connection to the Mivtzat Kashrus, which is connected to this shiur. We find, uh, the Beit Yosef in Orach Chaim, Siman Kuf Peh, brings-- There's a din that by benching, by Birchas Hamazon, you take off the knives when you bench. It brings the reason-- It brings two reasons. First, he brings the reason, because it says, "Lo Tisan Eif Leim Barzel." He says in the pasuk that you're not supposed to put iron on top of the Mizbeach, uh, because you're not supposed to put something that's mekatsar, something that shortens the life of somebody on t-t-the Mizbeach, which lengthens the life of somebody. And the Shulchan, as we find in the Gemara Chagigah, the sh-- uh, table is compared to the Mizbeach. It's based on the pasuk, that the pasuk in, in Yechezkel first starts off, it says, "Hamizbeach Eich Zos Amits Kavivul." And, and then it continues, the end of the Mizbe-- And the end of the pasuk says, "VeDa BeAlai Zeh HaShulchan Asher Ofni HaShem." So the Gemara asks, the pasuk started with Mizbeach, it finishes off with, with the Shulchan, what's going on? It says, Sh-Shlach says, and Reichem say, they both say that when the Beit HaMikdash stood, the Mizbeach was Mechaper,

01:31 Speaker 1 atoned for peop-for, for people. And now we have the table, the Shulchan, when you have guests at the table, and so on. So that's Mechaper for the Aveyrus. So we see that the table is compared to the Mizbeach. So just like in the Mizbeach, you don't put iron on top of the Mizbeach. So the same thing on the table. You don't put iron on the table when you bench, and therefore you remove it, you cover it, uh, when-- by benching. Then he brings another reason, uh, from Rabbeinu Simcha, that s- that says that he heard another reason that one time somebody was benching, and when he-- after the Churban of the Beit HaMikdash, and he got to Bnei Yerushalayim and reminded himself about the Churban of Beit HaMikdash, he took a knife and he, and he stabbed himself. And therefore, the minhag is to take off the knives when you make the bracha. And he s- and he says that the minhag is that on Shabbos and Yom Tov we don't cover the knives. And, uh, if he says, he finishes off, but it would seem that according to the reason of Rabbeinu Simcha, there shouldn't be a difference between Shabbos and Yom Tov. But nevertheless, the minhag of Minhagim shel Yisrael Torahi, and therefore we take it off on, on the week, but we don't take it off on, on Shabbos. Uh, and, and that's what the Taka says in Shulchan Aruch. The Mechabber writes in, in Siman Kuf Peh, Sif Hey, that you

02:59 Speaker 1 cover the knives by benching, but you don't cover it by Shabbos and Yom Tov. So based on this, it would seem to be that according to the second reason... So the second reason that Rabbeinu Simcha doesn't apply when Mashiach comes. We're not gonna remind ourselves about the Churban, right? The Beit HaMikdash is already, uh, built. But according to the first reason, it has to do with the Mizbeach. So that seemingly, even when Mashiach comes, the Shulchan still has a connection to the Mizbeach. It's in a pasuk. And therefore, you would have to cover it when, when you bench. Now, we find the Taz on, on Siman Kuf Peh, Sif Hey. So the Taz asks, he doesn't understand why the Mechabber writes that according to the first reason, you don't have to take it off on Shabbos, and the second reason you, you, you-- Then this according to second reason, uh, you would have to take it off on Shabbos. He asked why. Seemingly, even for the first reason, if we're saying it's compared to, if it's compared to a Mizbeach, so that seemingly should apply even the first reason that, that you should have to, even, even on Shabbos, you should have to take it off the table. Why do we say that you don't have to take it off on the, on Shabbos according to the first reason that they say? So therefore, the Taz actually says that the Beit Yosef means to say that even according to the second reason, you have to

04:31 Speaker 1 take it off on Shabbos, and for sure according to the first reason. In other words, I would think that according to the, to the second reason, since you say that it's a-- talking-- the reason why you're taking it off is because he was mourning about the Churban. Come Shabbos, you're not allowed to mourn about the Churban, so maybe on Shabbos you, we don't have a worry about a Tsakanah, that you're gonna come-- the person's gonna come and stab himself, just like we've... So, so therefore, um, um, therefore, you, you, you don't, you, you, you, you don't have to take it off. Kama Shma Lan. That no, even according to the second reason, even according to Rabbeinu Simcha, you have to take it off, 'cause we're still scared, uh, that you, that you might come to stab yourself. That's what the Taz says. But as many point out, you see this from the Rav Amram and others, that if you look, if you look in the, in the Mechabber, it's very hard to say that the, that the Mechabber means to say even according to Rabbeinu Simcha. 'Cause, you know, 'cause the Mechabber, the Beit Yosef, the, the Beit Yosef writes that it's according to Rabbeinu Simcha, "Ein Lechalek," you can't make a difference between Shabbos and the, and the, and the weekday. Meaning to say that he was making a difference. He didn't mean to say it's not-- We're not missing a word in the Beit Yosef that it says even according to Rabbeinu Simcha.

05:53 Speaker 1 He, he writes, "Ein Lechalek," which means that, that there's no diff-- that, that you-- there's no difference according to Rabbeinu Simcha, meaning that according to the first one, there is a difference. And, and some explain that the, what's the difference that, that, uh, um, if you say it's 'cause of Shabbos-- if, if you say it's because of that it's reminded of the Mizbeach. So then even though that also has to do with iron shortening a person's life and so on, but that doesn't come from the person himself, that comes from the Shamayim. So if it's come from Shamayim, you have Shabbos. Shabbos me-- Shabbos is, is, is, is this, the, the source of Shabbos could, could protect the person and so on. But according to second one, it's supporting what the person himself is gonna do. So that Shabbos is not gonna protect us. You, you as the person himself might get all the, all-- get very excited and stab himself, and therefore you have to take it off. That's what some explain in the Beit Yosef. However... So based on this, we would still say that according to-- we could say that according to the second reason, according to Rabbeinu Simcha, you would not have to take it off when Moshiach comes, 'cause we're not worried about wor-- about people getting, getting overly, overly upset about over the Horban. But according to the first one, you would have to take it off 'cause it's still compared to the Mizbeach. However, we find in Levush,

07:18 Speaker 1 uh, also on Ko- on Kuf Peh. He asks the same question of the Taz that seemingly if, if you're comparing it to Mizbeach, so why should there be a difference between Shabbos and the weekday? Why-- W-w-there shouldn't be a diff-- there still shouldn't be a difference. And he gives a different reason. He's, he explains that this reason that we say that it's about, um, that it's compared to the Mizbeach, what it means to be-- what it means is that it's a remembrance that you're not supposed to put-- use iron while you're building the Mizbeach. Therefore, since on Shabbos you're not allowed to build the Mizbeach, you're not allowed to build the Beit Hamikdash, so we don't need to have anything to remind us that you're not allowed to put iron on top of the Mizbeach, 'cause you're not allowed to build the Mizbeach then. So therefore, we, we could leave the, the, leave the iron, you could leave the, the knife on the table just like we don't-- we, we-- during the week we say Mizmor L'Seuda, right? On Shabbos, we don't say Mizmor L'Seuda. Why? 'Cause on Shabbos you can't bring a carbon taker, so we don't say Mizmor L'Seuda. It's the same thing. On, on Shabbos, we, we don't need anything to remind us not to build the Mizbeach or the Beit Hamikdash, so therefore you can leave the, the, the knife on. But then he says, "That's going..." And therefore, and that's Dominican, the places where the Beit Yosef was, that's why

08:45 Speaker 1 they would take it o-- they wouldn't take it off on Shabbos, they would leave it-- Shabbos and Yom Tov, they would leave it on the table. And the Levush actually lends off that in, in where he lived, in Dominican where there was, that they, that they would take it off even on Shabbos. Why? He says, 'cause seemingly that they followed the, the reason of Rabbeinu Simcha that it's, that it's, that it's, that it's, that it might, that, that the person might get and stab himself, and therefore, and therefore they would take it off on Shabbos as well. And we find a similar concept and idea in, in other Mefarshim and other sources. The Torah Temimah also writes that it's not really compared to Mizbeach, it's just a Remez to like the Mizbeach and so on. 'Cause it would be 100% like the Mizbeach, you wouldn't be able to put honey on it on a table, just like you can't put on the Mizbeach and so on. So based on this, that it's only a, a Remez to the, to the Mizbeach when we don't have the Mizbeach, or it's a Remez that we should remember when we're gonna build the Mizbeach that, that you can't use iron for it. So it would seem that based on this, that also according to the first reason, when Moshiach comes, if you have the actual Mizbeach, we don't need any Remazim, we don't need any reminders about how to build a Mizbeach. We already have the Mizbeach built.

10:14 Speaker 1 So we would be able to leave the, the knives, the iron knives uncovered on the table when Moshiach comes during bentching. That's what it would seem to be. Meaning based on this, both-- according to both reasons, you could leave the table, you could leave the knives on the table during bentching. However, if you look in the Alter Rebe Shulchan Aruch, the Alter Rebe writes, uh, "Nagin l'chaz it hasakin m'shat birchat hamazon." He says it, it's the minhag to cover the knives during bentching. Why? Because they are shulchan demu mizbeach. The sh-- the table is compared to the Mizbeach, and it says by the Mizbeach, it says, "Lo tithnu af aliem barzel," 'cause the barzel is mekatze yomov shel Adam, and the Mizbeach is ma'rich yomov yemei ha-Adam. So you can't have the thing that's mekatze, the thing that make-- shortens a person's life on the thing that lengthens it. And this-- and, uh, we know that a table lengthens also a person's life through achlas yetsachrim. We know she, shekidui ha-legima, that, that great, great is, is, is legima, which means providing refreshments, uh, for other people, that it causes the Shechinah to rest. Meaning according to the Alter Rebe, this-- it's not a Remez about the building the Mizbeach. It's, it's dem-- a shulchan is compared to the Mizbeach, and therefore, um, you shouldn't put the iron on the, on the, on the table by bentching and you have to cover it. And the Alter Rebe doesn't bring the second reason, um, of Rabbeinu

11:57 Speaker 1 Simcha. He just brings the first reason and doesn't say it's about a Remez. So seemingly according to the Alter Rebe, which should also apply when Moshiach comes, that according to the first reason, if it's like a Mizbeach, it's like a Mizbeach, so then-

12:11 Speaker 2 Just like the Mizbeach you can't put iron, so too you can't put-- you can't have iron on the table when Mashiach comes. However, we find that the Rebbe finishes off that the minhag is not to cover the knife on Shabbos and Yom Tov. And he says, "Why?" Because in the weekday we cover it because it's the koach of Esav. A knife, iron knife is a koach of Esav and on Shabbos, the Satan doesn't have any power to cause stuff on, on Shabbos, and therefore we, we don't have to take it off on Shabbos, and that is the minhag in Shaal Oslel Torah. He finishes off in the same language of the-- from the Bisya Esav, and therefore we don't have to take it off on Shabbos. So based on this, seemingly, if we say that the reason is because on Shabbos we don't have-- there's-- the Satan doesn't have power on, on Shabbos, so then we could say that even last level, even though it's dayma compared to the Mizbeach, but if the whole thing is because it's, it's, it's about the, about the Satan having power, so perhaps last level, um, you also don't have to have it on the, on the table then. And, uh, and s- and you saw in, uh, in Sefer Yemei Moshiach Ba'alach from Rabbi Galitsky, which I've brought many times, in Chelek Sheni, uh, Siman Unches, he brings that, uh, that we find in the Sichos from the Rebbe, that the Rebbe explains that we find that although

13:51 Speaker 2 the first two Beis Hamikdash, um, you know, you-- they, they didn't really have iron in the building of the Beis Hamikdash, it was mostly made of, of, of stone. We find that the third Beis Hamikdash is gonna be made of iron. There's gonna have lots of iron in the-- within the building of the Beis Hamikdash. Why? Because it's gonna be-- it's gonna weaken the koach of, of, of, of, of the negative aspects of barzel, uh, which is that it's a sword and it takes away the life of people and so on, and therefore you'll be able to have iron in the Beis Hamikdash. So that would seemingly fit to what we just said, that seemingly if you say the whole reason is because of, of-- on, on Shabbos you could have it because Esav is weakened, so the koach of Esav is weakened, and therefore we find last level it won't be, it won't be such a big problem, and therefore you'll be able to have iron on the Mizbeach. That's, that's what he says. However, um, on, on this, on this explanation because this that you can't have iron on the Mizbeach is actually-- barzel is, is, is actually a posek in the Torah. So it's, it's a lav, which seemingly would apply definitely at least in the, the beginning of Yemei Moshiach when they build the Beis Hamikdash. We know there's two tekufos, and maybe that's, that's a separate shiar. But in the beginning it, it would apply. And so if-- and it--

15:23 Speaker 2 so-- and if we're saying that it's completely dayma to the Mizbeach, so why, if just like the Mizbeach, you can't put iron on it, same thing on the table. You shouldn't, you shouldn't have to-- you shouldn't be able to have iron. And this concept you say that in, in the Beis Hamikdash you're able to have iron, that's a separate din. There's a din about the Beis Hamikdash in general, and there's a din about the Mizbeach. However, if we look, if we look in the Rambam, so we-- if we look in the Rambam, Hilchos Beis Habchirah, Perek Alef, Halacha Tes Vav and, and, and so also in Halacha Tes Zayin. So, so the Rambam says that the stones of the-- in Halacha Tes Vav of, of, of Hilchos Beis Habchirah, says the stones of the az-- of the Heichal the Azarah, if they got, uh, if they got, uh, if they get damaged, they got a split, shenifgemu or shenigmemu, so the, the posek and you can't redeem them, you have to bury them. And then he says, "Any stone that iron touched, even if it didn't be-- if even, even if it d-d-- even if nothing happened to it, it wasn't damaged, you can't use it for the Mizbeach or for the, or for the ramp, or for the kevish," uh, 'cause it says, and right-- and it says that if you build it with a stone that, that iron touched it, the Mizbeach or the ramp, so you get malkus. Then in the next

16:53 Speaker 2 Halacha, Halacha Tes Zayin, um, he says that if, uh, if after you already built, uh, the Mizbeach, if the stone was damaged, even shenifgema shenaga ba'barzel after you built-- achei shenivnes Mizbeach haba kevish, so that stone is a evan psula. V'shak she'all the other stones are, are, are kosher. And then the Rambam finishes off, that they used to coat the Mizbeach, uh, twice a year with, with, with cement or on, on Pesach and, and Sukkos time they would coat it. But he says when they would coat it, they would have to use a cloth. You can't use, uh, an iron to, to, to put the coating on it 'cause you're not allowed to touch it with iron. So they would use a cloth to cover the Mizbeach, to put the coating on to mimelaben the, the Mizbeach. On this, in Halacha Tes Zayin, the, the Rav asks why was it only, uh, first of all, first of all, he says it wasn't, it wasn't with a cloth, it was a-- with a piece of wood. Fine. But he says it, it wasn't seemingly only the Mizbeach, the whole Azarah, the entire Azarah they would have to do that. They would have to use this, this alternative method, not iron. You have to use something else to smear this, this, this, this cement or plaster to, to, to smear it on because you can't touch it with iron. On this, the, the Kesef Mishnah asks on the spot. Uh, he asks, "I don't understand." Um, the--

18:39 Speaker 2 we learned earlier, the Rambam writes earlier in the same Perek, he writes that in the rest of the Azarah in the Heichal, um, um, you're, you're, you're, you're allowed to-- it's allowed-- you're allowed to touch it with iron. You're not allowed to, um, you, you-- it says that it says, They didn't hear-- you c-- you didn't-- nobody heard the, the, the sounds of iron while they were bui- bui- while they were making it. That's talking about while they're making it, that you can't hear iron then. But that if the iron should touch it, even inside the Mizbea-- even inside the Beis Hamikdash, you are allowed to. It's not a problem. So why does the Raavad say-- what's the Raavad's problem with the, with the, the Rambam that you can't-- that, that he says it's not just the Mizbeach, it's the whole entire, it's the whole entire Beis Hamikdash. It's not true. As the, the Rambam said earlier, you can't build it with iron, but you could touch it. Iron could touch it. That's the question of the, of the Kesef Mishnah, or he's answering the Raavad. I found in the Sefer Maaseh Lemelech from Rabbi Israel Abushaneig on Hilchos Beis Habchirah. Um, the Sefer actually, if you go into the Rebbe's room, uh, even now you could see that the, the Sefer the Rebbe had is Sefer on the, on the shelves in his room. Um, so he writes over there after he brings the, the Shailah from, of-- he brings the Raavad, then he

20:09 Speaker 2 brings the question of the Kesef Mishnah, and so on. And then he brings from the Sefer Lechem Yehuda that he wrote that the Kavannah of the Raavad, the Raavad holds that this lav, this Isur, that you're not allow-- that you can't put iron, losinin felaim barzel, on the Mizbeach. It's specifically q-- if you're gonna make a Gam, you're gonna damage the Mizbeach, or you're gonna make something missing from the-- one of the stones of the, of the, of the Mizbeach. As it says, But just touching itself, it's not really possible. And what we say that you shouldn't, uh, that you shouldn't touch with, with, with iron is because we're scared that maybe you're gonna touch it. And so meaning you can't touch it in a way that it's gonna be missing, that's gonna, gonna cause some damage to the Mizbeach. So therefore, he says that it comes out that the actual Isur of not having iron on the Mizbeach and the Isur of iron in the, in the Azarah, in the rest of the Beis Hamikdash is more-- is, is the same, is the same Isur, that you can't miss anything, you can't make a Gam, you can't make a , you can't cut anything in the-- of the Mizbeach or the Beis Hamikdash with, with, with iron. And therefore, that's what the Raavad is asking. Why are you saying that you, you were-- we were only careful with this, putting the cement with iron not to do it on the Mizbeach? You should be

21:37 Speaker 2 careful in the rest of the Beis Hamikdash. However, the Rambam, he ho-- the-- this is what the Maaseh Lemelech, uh, bringing from the Sefer Lechem Yehuda, explains that the Rambam holds that midirabonon, there's actually on the Mizbeach, there was actually a separate Isur of Negiah. And therefore, it's, it's not as the Raavad says that they're, that they're completely equal, the Isur of the Mizbeach and the Isur of the Beis-- and the rest of the Beis Hamikdash. And therefore, why does he only stress that we can't do it on the Mizbeach, seemingly you can't do it on the rest of the Beis Hamikdash? He said, "No, according to the Rambam, there's a Isur midirabonon of Negiah." So meaning there's midiraisa, you can't build it, you can't make a Gam, you can't make damage it with iron. But just having iron on the Mizbeach, that's not the lav midiraisa. That's not Asu midiraisa. That's only Asu midirabonon. Based on this, if it's only an Isur midirabonon to have iron on it, that you can't put iron on top of the Mizbeach, seemingly because of the reason that we brought, because as the Gemara says, because the-- 'cause, uh, uh, uh, iron is mekater yom shel adam, it shortens a person's life. The Mizbeach is meant to be marech, to, to lengthen a person's life. So therefore, the Rabbonon were gezer that you shouldn't put iron on it. But that's still not-- that's not-- that's only midirabonon based on this reason. And if this reason doesn't apply anymore,

23:08 Speaker 2 um, it's, it's when, when, when Mashiach comes. So therefore-- so we ta-- could maybe have the lav that you can't build a Mizbeach with iron. But as we brought from the Alter Rebbe, that's not what-- according to, according to the Levush, it's about a Zecher, about building the, about building the Mizbeach. But according to the Alter Rebbe, it's just about it-- the Shulchan, a table being dema lemizbeach. You're allowed to put iron on the Mizbeach. Midirabonon, there's a gezer. The, the, the, the Rabbonon said that you can't put it because the mekater yom shel adam. When Mashiach comes, if it won't apply, so then you could put it-- you should seemingly be able to put the iron on the table when you bench according to this reason. On that note, I found the Chesed Le'Avraham from Rabbi Avraham Azulai, uh, which was the grandfather of the Chida. So he writes in his HaKoz on the Levush, and the Chida himself also actually brings this in the name of his grandfather in Birkei Yosef and the Shulchan Aruch and Siman Kuf Peh. So he brings another few reasons why we wouldn't put a-- we would cover a knife, uh, iron knife on the table, uh, while we bench. So he says another reason is, uh, because we find, which is actually in this week's parasha, as I mentioned at the beginning of this shiur, that the berakhah of Yaakov is metal hashamayim meshmanei haaretz, and the berakhah of Esav is al-kharvokha tihyeh. So therefore, by benching,

24:43 Speaker 2 when we're, when we're mentioning benching the berakhah of Yaakov, that how the berakhos haaretz, that the-- how the land is, is blessed, how there's a berakhah in the land. So therefore, we cover the knife, which is the berakhah of Esav. 'Cause it says, "Ki le'yanu achshaveit rosh al ge- uh, al gerot hatzadikim." We're talking about tzadikim there, the, the berakhah of tzadikim, so we cover the, the knife, which is the berakhah of Esav. He another reason that in benching we find the entire aleph-beis in benching besides the lamed-feh or the end feh, um, that we don't find that in the entire benching. He explains that the lamed-feh stands for charain af, and meaning wrath and anger. And anyone who has kavanah while they benching, if you have proper kavanah, so then wrath, af, charain af can't-- does not shelit on the person, doesn't affect the person. And therefore we co- to, to, to show this, we cover the knife during, during, during, during benching to show that the Satan is not shelit, doesn't have any power if we're doing-- if we're benching properly, uh, the, the Satan doesn't have, have any power over us. And then he finishes off that according to all these reasons, um, we don't cover the knives on Shabbos and Yom Tov because Shabbos and Yom Tov is a remez to Olam Haba, when all the klipis will be vamtik didinim, uh, the, the, the klipis will be sweetened, and bela hamavet lanetzach, and therefore we don't have to cover it

26:32 Speaker 2 on Shabbos and Yom Tov. And therefore he's obviously disagreeing with the Levush, that the Levush, uh, said that you-- that the, the minhag is to leave it on-- to, to cover it also Shabbos and Yom Tov. And he says, "No, since Shabbos and Yom Tov, it's the main Olam Haba when you won't have the klipis, so therefore you don't have to, you don't have to cover it." Which this seems to be in line with what we were saying, that in Olam Ha- that Olam Haba, when Mashiach comes, when we won't have the klipis, so we taka won't have to cover the knives when we bench. And should taka be as, as, as the, as the, as he finishes off, that bela hamavet lanetzach, moche ha'avaye lekim dimem al kal panim, and we should be zecha to the geulah shleima may it be speedily in our days.