Ep. 55: The First Jewish Event At The Kremlin with Rabbi Berel Lazar

00:00 Speaker 1 Kamuv and I agreed, and I wasn't, I wasn't too happy, but, uh, I realized I have no choice. And, uh, on Motzei Shabbos Lechos, I remember after Lechos, my father comes over to me and he tells me, "Because you listened to the Rebbe, because you, you're doing it, uh, we know it's not easy, you're gonna get a present." And he took out from his pocket a ticket, and he said, "You're going to go to the Rebbe for Tishrei." And that was incredible Kamuvin. From the moment I landed till Motzei Simchas Torah was twenty-four seven, seven seventy.

00:36 Speaker 2 I'm Yossi Kamin. Welcome to Among Chasidim by Der Her, an ongoing farbrengen about life as a Chasid, our vibrant connection with the Rebbe, and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. Shalom Aleichem, Rabbi Lazar. How are you?

00:53 Speaker 1 Aleichem Shalom.

00:54 Speaker 2 Okay, thank you.

00:55 Speaker 1 Amazing, Baruch Hashem.

00:55 Speaker 2 Okay, good. Thank you for making time of your very, very busy schedule.

00:59 Speaker 1 Not so busy.

01:00 Speaker 2 Okay. So everyone knows Rabbi Lazar, the Shliach in Russia, Rabbi Rashi. Um, not so many people may know a little bit about the background. We've actually published in Der Her, um, some information about your father. But also, I wanna start a little bit with your grandfather, Zemer Steinmetz, that I know there's a lot of rich, uh, stories over there, how he became connected to the Rebbe, and also, uh, the poetry with the Rebbe. So maybe you could tell me a little bit about that.

01:33 Speaker 1 So first of all, uh, yes, I remember coming to the Rebbe for us was also staying by my grandfather. That's where we used to stay, and, uh, it was interesting to see how he became more and more of a Chassid of the Rebbe, like, mamash every year became more and more. He came from, uh... He was actually, in his young years, he was very connected to many, many gedolim. Like he always used to say that it was a, a Sif of a Gados Yisroel. He was there. He was one of the youngest people there, the Sif, uh-

02:01 Speaker 2 Where are you talking about? Where is he from?

02:02 Speaker 1 This is, uh, originally from Hungary. Where the Sif exactly took place, I don't remember.

02:07 Speaker 2 In Europe?

02:07 Speaker 1 Yeah. And then he actually came to America after the war. He survived the whole war in Hungary, which was a miracle by itself. And when he came to America, he was looking around to figure out, like, what is the new Yiddishe Velt, what does it look like. And the way he say story, he walked in seven seventy, there's Gauch Haprotes once for a Mincha, and he saw the Rebbe davening Mincha, the Rebbe standing, you know, the way the Rebbe davens, and that's it. There was-- That was the moment that he decided, "This is my Rebbe." He was used to all these gedolim, you know, shaking and jumping and everything, and all the keilu, you know, what you saw in Mechon Is. And all of a sudden, he saw the, the atzmus of the Rebbe, and he said, "This is, this is my Rebbe." Of course, it took a lot of, uh, changes to him to understand what, uh, Chasidus of Chabad is.

02:57 Speaker 2 He lived in Crown Heights?

02:59 Speaker 1 He-- That time could be he was also living near-- He was working near Crown Heights, but I remember, I think he lived in Flatbush, but he, a lot was going on in Crown Heights. Crown Heights was the center of Jewish life in those years. And, uh, of course, there were things that shocked him in Chabad. He wasn't used to it. Many things he wrote to the Rebbe, and he-

03:17 Speaker 2 But what's his background? Like, what type of Yid was he?

03:20 Speaker 1 He was connected to a lot of different, uh, group. I think the main thing was Siget, if I'm not mistaken.

03:26 Speaker 2 So he's like a, whatever-

03:27 Speaker 1 Yeah

03:27 Speaker 2 ... Chasidishe or something, something like that he was used to. And to clarify, this is your mother's father we're talking about.

03:32 Speaker 1 Exactly. So, and one of the things that made a very strong impact on him, he had-- When he became, came to America, and he became more and more Frum, he stopped writing poetry. Even though in the young age, when he was young, he, he was looking in that direction. And he thought, "This is, it's not Chasidishe enough. It's not, uh..." And the Rebbe actually is the one that pushed him time after time to continue writing his, uh, poems, and the Rebbe gave a horos in it, and the Rebbe asked for it, and, uh, many, many times the Rebbe was talking about that. But it wasn't only that. It was also his work, and, uh, he was a certain point a principal in the Yeshivas Meshe. He was a principal in Besivka. He had mesim from the Rebbe. But it was very interesting to see how somebody that came from such a background, how connected became to the Rebbe. I'll give you a small example. The Rebbe spoke a lot about, uh, being ma'avesseder, the Chasidishe Seder. How many people actually did it? But him was chayav le'ya'avod. Every Friday night, we used to sit, no matter what, summer, winter, sit with zein iklach and go through Torah, Likutei Torah. That was everything. It was chazering the Rebbe's inyonim, giving out shmurah matzah. He was mamash a big, big fan of the Rebbe's, uh, you could say. The Rebbe's brought a change in his whole lifestyle. Everything was mamash a ma'apecha. And, uh, he became a,

04:52 Speaker 1 became a certain point... I mean, I saw him already as a Chassid, but he became a real, real mekushar to the Rebbe. Bechol nimei nafshe. He would-- The bitul in everything was incredible. The way he wrote letters to the Rebbe and, uh, the answer that he got.

05:06 Speaker 2 He would write to the Rebbe with his poetry-

05:07 Speaker 1 I, I remember standing with a farbrengen. The Rebbe was turning to him and, you know, showing him se lechaim in a big cup. He had a problem drinking wine. He couldn't drink wine. And, uh, he would get... If we'd make kiddush on wine, he would get sick, sick for the whole week. And comes the farbrengen, the Rebbe turns to him and says, "Se lechaim." Sometimes, very often, the Rebbe turns to him and, uh, it's a full of glos, and he had to drink the whole cup, and nothing happened, as if he didn't drink it. It was mamash mevsim on and on. It was, uh-

05:34 Speaker 2 Wow.

05:35 Speaker 1 He had a strong, strong connection to the Rebbe, but the Rebbe was shtark mekarev him. I remember as a bochur to think, "Oh, the Rebbe's mekarev him. Something is not the way it should be." But, uh, he had big, big keduvim.

05:47 Speaker 2 I'm saying but he was also... It sounds like he was one of those people. Where, where was it he, he published his poetry?

05:53 Speaker 1 Yeah. There are three books that he published. Actually, his poetry is being learned today in the schools in Israel, and it's a lot, a lot about the Rebbe, the Rebbetzin, and Chasidus. Like, a lot of inyonim. The, you could see how in the years the poetry changed, and the last years was mamash, practically only poems about the Rebbe. But he mamash got the nekuda. Like, people don't understand poetry. You see mamash, he, he was- He, he got it, let's say, and he was able to write it down, and the Rebbe very often answered on things that he wrote. About the Rebbe, the Rebbetsin.

06:29 Speaker 2 So I, I guess it sounds like he's a type of person that... I-I'm, I'm finding through this conversation, there's many people that have talents and kashrus, and the Rebbe far keyt encouraged them to use them for Torah.

06:40 Speaker 1 Yeah, for sure. That was a big shock for him because when he realized that the Rebbe actually embraces any talent that you have, whether it's, uh, somebody who knows how to draw or paint, or somebody knows how to sing, somebody who knows... Whatever you could do, use it for hafetz mayones and for, uh, Hashem Shamayim Ve'chalo, for him was a shock because he, he thought a certain point of poetry is not a positive thing. It's, it's something that he should let go of. And the Rebbe far keyt pushed him very, very strongly about that.

07:11 Speaker 2 Okay, and I'm moving along to your father. Your father also has a similar geographical background, right?

07:18 Speaker 1 Uh, similar, a little different. But my father actually came to America, and chassid he was learning in Tel Vadas, and, uh, his brother was learning in Tel Vadas, but it was when he left Europe, they ended up, the chassid, in England, and he had a, a chassidish rebbe that told him, "When you come to America, go to Chassidish Yeshiva." And the only Chassidish Yeshiva that they found was actually in Crown Heights, was the Lubavitch Yeshiva, and that's why his brother went to that yeshiva. And, uh, my grandfather, my father's father said, "If one brother goes to Lubavitch Yeshiva, then I want his brother also." And that's how my father ended up in yeshiva, was just because of his older brother.

07:55 Speaker 2 So it was-- He wasn't like niskara in Tel Vadas to, to people like-

07:58 Speaker 1 No.

07:59 Speaker 2 Different, different story.

08:00 Speaker 1 And he, he was very young when he came here ready to Lubavitch Yeshiva. So, but his older brother was already old, and he was already-

08:07 Speaker 2 So he was in Beverdin?

08:09 Speaker 1 Right.

08:10 Speaker 2 Ah, and so he, so he was basically learning in, in Yeshiva. Now, now that's what happened.

08:14 Speaker 1 Right.

08:15 Speaker 2 Um, so before your pa-- before your parents were married-

08:17 Speaker 1 As I remember, the chassid he used to learn, I think, in Albany, in Eastern Park. It was a storefront, and, uh, I think that Zon Gogara was the teacher.

08:28 Speaker 2 Oh, so before Beverdin?

08:30 Speaker 1 Right. He used to meet him, and eventually, I think they moved to-

08:33 Speaker 2 Ah, so I know in the beginning, they lived in Seven Seventy, so I guess in the Shins. So maybe this is the next, the next stop.

08:38 Speaker 1 This was in the Shins, but the later Shins, like, I think, Toshavot or Shivzayin, that's when he started, I think.

08:45 Speaker 2 And your father's also very famous. Before he went on Shlichus to Italy, he was like the Miyastim of or the Miyasted of Gan Yisroel, the whole, the whole idea, right?

08:56 Speaker 1 That's, that story I think is-

08:57 Speaker 2 That, that-

08:58 Speaker 1 Very famous

08:59 Speaker 2 ... that's famous. It's also been published, uh, in Yish Dashah. I mean, we, we, we covered it a bunch of times.

09:03 Speaker 1 The whole idea, very, very short, that my father was actually running the camp, was the learning director of Tel Vadas, and, uh, the camp-

09:12 Speaker 2 The camp of Tel Vadas?

09:14 Speaker 1 I think so.

09:15 Speaker 2 So the Agudah camp?

09:16 Speaker 1 The Agudah camp, right.

09:17 Speaker 2 Agudah camp, yeah.

09:17 Speaker 1 The Agudah camp.

09:18 Speaker 2 Because Lubavitch Bochurim used to go there.

09:19 Speaker 1 Right.

09:20 Speaker 2 The Beyel writes about it in his, in his, uh, diaries that they, they went there.

09:23 Speaker 1 Right. So there were a lot of Lubavitch Bochurim, but he was in charge, I think, of the learning or maybe certain activities also. The nekudah was there were kids from public schools that were there in camp, and at the end of the summer, he convinced them to go to yeshiva. And but somebody has to pay for the tuition, so he went to the hall of the camp, and he said, "That's not our problem. We're making camp, and that's it." And that really, he couldn't understand how could it be. How could it be that they're taking care of kids, mechade them, and then you let them go? This, and that's when he decided that there has to be Lubavitch camp, and that's when he went to, to the Rebbe and whatever. The story is famous.

09:55 Speaker 2 He, he fainted in the-

09:57 Speaker 1 Almost fainted.

09:57 Speaker 2 Almost fell. Almost fainted in the-

09:59 Speaker 1 The Rebbe saw that he wasn't feeling well. The Rebbe said he should go out of the room, and when you feel better, you come back in.

10:04 Speaker 2 And when the Rebbe came to visit the camp, your father was, uh, was, was right there.

10:08 Speaker 1 Right.

10:10 Speaker 2 Okay. So then they, your parents got married, and they went on shlichus to Italy. So what was it like for you growing up on shlichus in, in, in Italy?

10:21 Speaker 1 First of all, the zechus of being born on shlichus was, of course, something that we always knew. But, uh, I actually grew up without any, I mean, my age, no chassidish friends. I was the only one in the class that was, uh, from practically, I mean, all the years that I grew up, and, uh-

10:41 Speaker 2 You grew up in Milan?

10:42 Speaker 1 I grew up in Milan.

10:43 Speaker 2 Milan, yeah. Okay.

10:44 Speaker 1 But there was a chassidish community, and, uh, you know, I, I, I, I felt what was going on. Of course, the main thing we got at home, like the understanding what's shlichus, what's Rebbe, vechulo, wasn't something... I learned there was a Lubavitch school, the school that, uh, what it, what is called America School. But in those years, it wasn't inian to speak to kids about chassidishkeit and Rebbe. We heard very little in school. Mainly was, uh, at home. I mean, of course, we saw fabrengins here and there, but, uh, but knowing that I'm growing up as a shliach was, uh, the essence of our life. We knew that we are there on shlichus. I'm not there to be friendly with other kids. I'm there to be mashpia on other kids. That was like from day one was clear that this is the goal of my life.

11:30 Speaker 2 So when you were a kid, your parents brought you to the Rebbe? Like what, what, what was that like?

11:35 Speaker 1 So at that time, the seder was that you could come to the Rebbe once every two years.

11:38 Speaker 2 There was a rule-

11:39 Speaker 1 There was a rule from the Rebbe

11:40 Speaker 2 ... from Rebbe.

11:41 Speaker 1 And even after two years, you had to write to the Rebbe. I think even sometimes the Rebbe was meshtate from the tzoyis of the tickets. But for sure, without getting geskum or brocha from the Rebbe, you couldn't leave, even after two years. So two years, you knew that you're counting till the next visit. So every two years, it was with the Rebbe. I mean, the first time that was mamash a little child. I remember as a child, the fabrengen, I remember in-

12:00 Speaker 2 When were you born?

12:01 Speaker 1 Chaf Dalet.

12:02 Speaker 2 Chaf Dalet. So you, so this is like, uh, late Chaf maybe?

12:06 Speaker 1 Late Chaf, beginning of the Lamed. More I remember, like I was already six, seven, eight. That's what I remember already coming to fabrengen and, and standing there for hours. But, uh, kimu ven, for a child to see fabrengen was like incredible, was like, uh-

12:22 Speaker 2 I imagine-

12:23 Speaker 1 And going to Yechidas.

12:24 Speaker 2 Yeah, I was going to say, I imagine, I imagine the family had the Yechidas.

12:27 Speaker 1 Right. So we went the whole family in Yechidas a few times. I remember small parts of it. And then, uh, of course, for my Bar Mitzvah we went to Yechidas. For my Bar Mitzvah, actually, my parents sent me to the Rebbe, like, a month before the Bar Mitzvahs. That was, uh, quite a while. I was here. At that time, that was for sure the moment that, uh, I saw seven seventy, you know, twenty-four hours a day. I wouldn't leave seven seventy until the Rebbe left, and we were there early in the morning. So I was as a young kid-

12:58 Speaker 2 A thirteen-year-old kid

12:59 Speaker 1 ... the thing about seven seventy was amazing.

13:04 Speaker 2 So y-you ended up coming to New York when you were a bachur? Like, what, what, how'd that happen?

13:08 Speaker 1 So then, actually, I was here by the Bar Mitzvah. A-again, I was, uh, going to the 770 a little, some hours of the day, but mainly I was in seven seventy. And of course, all of a sudden I realized that my dream is to come to, to learn in America. Enough of this shluchas. My parents are shluchas. I don't have to suffer because of it. I can come to the Rebbe, that's it. And there's quite a famous story. I said it already once, twice, that, um, by my fourteenth birthday was 770, you know, twenty-four hours a day. I wouldn't leave seven seventy until the Rebbe left, and we were there early in the morning. So I was as a young kid-

13:13 Speaker 2 A thirteen-year-old kid

13:13 Speaker 1 ... the thing about seven seventy was amazing. So you ended up coming to New York when you were a bachur? Like, what, what, how'd that happen? So then, actually, I was here by the Bar Mitzvah. A-again, I was, uh, going to the 770 a little, some hours of the day, but mainly I was in seven seventy. And of course, all of a sudden I realized that my dream is to come to, to learn in America. Enough of this shluchas. My parents are shluchas. I don't have to suffer because of it. I can come to the Rebbe, that's it. And there's quite a famous story. I said it already once, twice, that, um, by my fourteenth birthday was Yisro Hak Shvuos Lamed Ches. At that point already I was finished. I, I'm done. I said, "That's it, I'm finished." I finished eighth grade. The whole time they were telling me, "You have to finish eighth grade because that's the only way that the kids are gonna stay in the school if you're gonna stay. If you're gonna leave, the whole class is gonna dismantle, everybody's gonna leave, these kids are gonna be lost." So I had to suffer because of them, sort of. We're learning Limudei Khol in the school, which was also suffering for me. I didn't want to do it. I had enough. So, uh, I wrote down... My father told me, "Okay, now you can write to the Rebbe." So I wrote to the Rebbe that my parents want me to stay another

14:11 Speaker 1 year or more, and I want to go to yeshiva. And, uh, the idea of my parents was, again, if I'm gonna leave, all the kids from the class are gonna, uh, not continue. B'pel, I wrote to the Rebbe that I want to go to yeshiva, and of course, I want to come to the Rebbe. But if not New York, then, uh, Brunois, which I wrote it's close by, so it's a mile, or Israel. And the answer that I got, interesting enough, you mentioned my grandfather. My grandfather also wrote a similar letter to the Rebbe, found a letter later.

14:45 Speaker 2 About you?

14:46 Speaker 1 Yeah. But exactly this. My grandfather was mamish very strong that I have to leave Milan and come to a normal yeshiva. And, um, and b'pel I got an answer. My grandfather got the same answer that we're gonna find two or three chaverim in Italy, in Milan, then I should stay. If not, to New York, not to the Rebbe. So when I realized right away I got the answer, I realized that's it, there's no two or three chaverim. They're gonna sit and learn with me from morning to night. The other kids in my class, they want to continue Limudei Khol. So that's it, I'm free. I can go. I can go to New York. That's it. My dream-

15:19 Speaker 2 Dream come true

15:20 Speaker 1 ... came realized. Yeah. And all of a sudden, the Anash in Milan got together. Interesting, when somebody got an answer about the community, about the Mezuzah, so the whole thing became a Sifah. They discussed it and they said... The nekuda was, I remember as a child then hearing that was the Rebbe Veisaj was controlling Milan. The Rebbe was telling you if you're gonna find a chiyer, there are no such friends. So what is the Rebbe telling you? Like, to find what you can't find. Of course, you can find them. You just have to find them. So our job is to find these two or three friends.

15:48 Speaker 2 So, so because of this answer-

15:50 Speaker 1 So they had to look for two or three friends.

15:52 Speaker 2 So they, they wanted to make like a yeshiva.

15:54 Speaker 1 Oh, so that was-- It was a dream of Geshem Mendel was to make a yeshiva. That was his, always dream.

15:59 Speaker 2 I think, uh, I think, um, was Rabbi Levi Geier involved in this?

16:04 Speaker 1 No.

16:04 Speaker 2 I think he, I think he mentioned this. Go ahead.

16:06 Speaker 1 This story you mentioned? Could be.

16:07 Speaker 2 No, the, the, about the yeshiva. Go ahead.

16:08 Speaker 1 The idea of making a yeshiva in Italy was by him, yeshiva in Remy and, uh, Tal Shaliov. And Geshem Mendel was always this, the, the dream. He had this big dream. There's gonna be a big yeshiva in Milan, and we used to look at him and think, "What kind of yeshiva? What yeshiva? What yeshiva? What, who are yeshiva like?" Anyways, and I was-- I knew I was alone in my class. So what am, who, who am I gonna learn, learn with? So there are no two or three friends. But he said, "No, there are. We have to find them." B'pel they found them. One was three years younger than me and became my classmate. And another one was a chaver that, uh, at that point, nobody thought he was gonna continue learning the whole day Limudei Chades. And actually, he did agree. And that's it. And now the Rebbe said two or three. So we have two, plus you're the number three. That's it. We have a class. And actually, Geshem Mendel taught us the whole year. He was coming every morning to teach for four or five hours. I don't think he ever did such a thing ever.

16:57 Speaker 2 Like, like, Marre? Like he taught you-

16:58 Speaker 1 Marre a lot. Remember, he was sitting and teaching a lot of other teachers. But the nekuda was we learned the whole day from morning to night, keilu, you know, started a yeshiva. Then it was another story with the yeshiva in Italy when they actually made a yeshiva. But, uh, that's it. At that point, they told me, "That's it. You have to stay." I mean, of course, you have to agree, but this is what we found. We found these boys, and this is what the Rebbe wants. Kamuvin I agreed, and I wasn't, I wasn't too happy, but I realized I have no choice. And, uh, on Motzei Shabbos Luchas, I remember after Luchas, my father comes over to me and he tells me, "Because you listen to the Rebbe, because you, you're doing it, uh, we know it's not easy. You're gonna get a present." And he took out from his pocket a ticket. At that time, the tick-tickets were paper, like, uh, these, and, uh-

17:47 Speaker 2 An actual ticket?

17:48 Speaker 1 Yeah. And he said, "That's it. You're going to go to the Rebbe for Tishrei." And that was incredible Kamuvin. Tishrei Lametess, which was an incredible Tishrei because the Tishrei after Lamed Ches, all the changes happened then. But it was, it was still like, it was an incredible Chades Tishrei from the moment I landed till Motzei Simchas Torah was twenty-four seven seven seventy. Like, I was, uh, it was mamish a dream come true Kamuvin. At that point, I realized that going back to Italy must be like, "This is crazy." Like, "It doesn't make sense. I'm here by the Rebbe. I'm gonna go back?" Anyways, comes

18:26 Speaker 2 So you had, you, you thought you may, might not go back?

18:28 Speaker 1 How can I not go back? 'Cause they want-

18:30 Speaker 2 Right

18:30 Speaker 1 ... they told me that I have to go back.

18:31 Speaker 2 They, they wrote this to the Rebbe? You don't know.

18:33 Speaker 1 About? They wrote-

18:34 Speaker 2 That, that, that whole thing that you found two, three, five-

18:36 Speaker 1 Yeah, of course. Let the Rebbe know.

18:38 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

18:39 Speaker 1 And then the I didn't write. But in I believe that Anash wrote or I don't know if anybody wrote, but the comes and my grandfather went by the Rebbe. I was after him and, uh, I don't remember how it happened that we were together by and, uh, the Rebbe s- stops me and looks at me and he, like, looks at me and says, "." He decided to stay here and come over. First of all, we knew that you don't answer to the Rebbe, so what I'm gonna answer? And number two is what, what am I supposed to say? I was completely shocked. I mean, of course inside I wanted to stay, but the Rebbe told me to go back, and that's what I understood. And the Rebbe's asking, "." I was shocked and, uh, if I'm not mistaken, all of a sudden it was like Rebbe speaks to somebody, so we can shh, like whatever. And my grandfather came back. I think the Rebbe asked a second time. My grandfather, who wanted me very, very much to stay in New York, he felt that going back was, uh, crazy at that time. So he tells the Rebbe, "Rebbe, the Rebbe's asking." It was amazing there on the spot he realized that it's, it's his chance to get a-

19:54 Speaker 2 He interjected as it-

19:55 Speaker 1 Right. The Rebbe was pouring the wine facing the crowd, like the, the zal, and the Rebbe stopped pouring there and turned around and started pouring on the, on the back. It was clear that the Rebbe was like, uh, can't say upset, but the Rebbe was telling me clearly that

20:16 Speaker 2 So that's how, that's how you understood it.

20:18 Speaker 1 That's for sure. For sure it was clear the Rebbe wasn't asking to stay here. The Rebbe was clear that as my and it wasn't . Yeah, I was dreaming that that somehow could happen, but the Rebbe made clear that that's not what he wants. And then I went back already to and it was an amazing year, amazing year. But I, about a year. That was the, the and a year later Baruch Hashem Rebbe gave me but I already knew clear that it's not it's coming to the Rebbe. And Baruch Hashem already for Tisha b'Av, I mean Elul, already came here, and that's it. That's-

20:53 Speaker 2 Elul, Elul that's when you came to stay?

20:57 Speaker 1 Right.

20:57 Speaker 2 So where did you go?

20:58 Speaker 1 So I went to Ocean Parkway and, um-

21:01 Speaker 2 How old are you? you're-

21:04 Speaker 1 How, how old was I?

21:05 Speaker 2 Yeah.

21:05 Speaker 1 Fifteen.

21:05 Speaker 2 Fifteen. So you went to Ocean Parkway.

21:08 Speaker 1 So I was in two years in zal in Ocean Parkway, which was amazing with Rabbi Uspall, Rabbi Buket, uh, Rabbi Lapkovsky. It was, uh, Dannholde then Rebbe used to come for bring-

21:21 Speaker 2 Oh, he still used to come to Ocean Parkway?

21:22 Speaker 1 Yeah, for bring and teach, and there was shluchim there in Ocean Parkway. They used to send shluchim to Ocean Parkway.

21:26 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. I had a lot of people talk about how they were sent from Seven seventy to, to Ocean Parkway.

21:29 Speaker 1 And, and that was the only yeshiva they got the Rebbe to give them . Rebbe used to come give to the shluchim. So he used to sneak in, and then the Rebbe used to come for bring for the holy yeshiva sometimes.

21:38 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. So just give me a little bit the lay of the land, and then we'll go back to it. So, so you, you were in Ocean Parkway and then-

21:45 Speaker 1 I was in Ocean Parkway, and then at, actually the end of at that point decided we're gonna go, a group of bochurim decided we're gonna go to Toras Emes. That was considered then the yeshiva, uh, you know, if you're trying to... It was the yeshiva . Dannholde said yeshiva, told me clearly they're not giving me . At that time, I don't know how it is today, but at that time you wouldn't be able to go leave the yeshiva without a Dannholde. You can't switch to a different yeshiva without a . No yeshiva used to take you unless the previous- ... gave permission. And Dannholde said, "You can't." I remember having a conversation and they told me was, "is good." I said, "." They said, "No. ." and I was supposed to go to Meriston. That was the original plan. And then all of a sudden started this whole idea again about the yeshiva in Italy. Uh, they decided that this is a moment to m- start a yeshiva in Italy. There was a lot of local bochurim that would have been ready to go to yeshiva and not go to university or whatever if they would have opened a yeshiva. And they drove me crazy that I should go to, to go Italy. Was actually before Meriston. So normally all the bochurim went to at the end of Meriston, three years later. Told me, "No. You're gonna go now. It's ." Myself, the Rebbe, Hadakah was like a lot of in and out,

23:04 Speaker 1 but we went out, that was on and then it was supposed to be a year. It was clear a year, and as usual, after the year they said, "You can't leave it now. You have to continue, otherwise the yeshiva is gonna fall apart." So we went back for half a year. Then was clear that it was gonna be for half a year. Before we went, we went to . The Rebbe gave us, uh, and and everything. And one time before that's it. We knew that's it. The is over. And we said a year, then half a year clear, and then again Yesh Mentel said, "No. You have to stay another half a year." How could we stay? That's it. It was . So the was, "Are you sure that you fulfilled everything that Rebbe told in the ? Are you sure you, you did everything that the Rebbe said?"

23:54 Speaker 2 Is good.

23:55 Speaker 1 back and forth.

23:56 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a trap.

23:57 Speaker 1 Yeah. Back and forth. The, the was we should write to the Rebbe, and whatever the Rebbe says we're gonna do. So of course, we wrote a letter to the Rebbe. We showed it to him, and he said, and the letter was that, uh, the Rebbe we're ready to, to stay till the end of the . And, uh, Yesh Mentel saw the letter, he says, "No. It's not the way you write it." The Rebbe we're ready to go back . That's the way you write it to the Rebbe. So of course, we added those words, and the answer was Rebbe crossed out. Now if n- if not, whatever, underlined . So we stayed another few months and then that's it. That was... Then later went for one year to Meriston, but I told Dannholde right away, "That's it. My two years of being away from the Rebbe did."

24:44 Speaker 2 You did already.

24:45 Speaker 1 I did in Beis Saphah more than was, uh, agreed . So after Meriston, I'm not gonna go to . I said clearly, "You want to send me to Australia?" Whatever it was, uh, I said clearly, "I'm not going anywhere. It doesn't make a difference." I had my my whole life I was on I was two years in now I'm in Seven seventy. And, uh, they realized that's it. There's nobody to talk to, and I came to Seven seventy, and of course, they didn't wanna let me in because I was only twenty years old. So at that time, we didn't allow bochurim come. Twenty years old was mamash. I had a whole with Dovid Raskin. He didn't want to accept me as a talmid in Ashura. I appealed, I made a deal with him that I'm gonna be every morning, seven thirty by chasidus. I won't miss one day. Every morning he used to come and check on me. And, uh, Baruch Hashem, they let me to seven seventy, and I was in seven seventy from mem-- even mem dalet when I was in Maristan.

25:43 Speaker 3 You did every Shabbos.

25:44 Speaker 1 I did every Shabbos.

25:44 Speaker 3 The Rebbetzin, whatever. Then the-

25:45 Speaker 1 Every Shabbos I came to-

25:46 Speaker 3 Every Shabbos?

25:47 Speaker 1 Every Shabb-- And, and I was never Shabbos in Maristan. I don't know what, uh-

25:50 Speaker 3 Oh. I was in Maristan, and I was here by the other Shabbos, but Dan Hal told me, "One Shabbos you must stay." So that was only one Shabbos in Maristan.

25:58 Speaker 1 I never saw Shabbos in Maristan. I don't know what it looks like. And actually, the reason that they let me go was because if there would be a surprise farbrengen, I would chazar over the farbrengen in yeshiva. That was at night. Every-- In any case, any Shabbos there was a farbrengen, I used to chazar farbrengen in yeshiva afterward. So that's why they gave me permission every Shabbos to go. In case there's a surprise farbrengen, I'm gonna be there. At least I will be able to chazar the... After Shabbos, I should come back right away and chazar the farbrengen. So that was-

26:27 Speaker 3 So from mem dalet to mem hei, mem vav, zayin-

26:30 Speaker 1 And then mem hei.

26:30 Speaker 3 Seven seventy.

26:31 Speaker 1 Mem hei till end of mem tes, I was in seven seventy.

26:33 Speaker 3 So that's mem tes.

26:34 Speaker 1 Seven seventy-five years.

26:35 Speaker 3 Oh, wow. So let me ask you about, let me ask you about that. So I wanna hear about the years that you were in seven seventy, Maristan seven seventy. But, but בכלל before I get there, so you, you're coming from Italy, and yet you come here, and then you leave. But what, what, like, what was it like that שינוי that all of a sudden you're by the Rebbe בכביש? Like, what, what, what was that, what was that like for, for you?

26:59 Speaker 1 Now, first of all, already from taf shmem, um, I was, I was by the Rebbe בכביש in a certain way. When it was in-- We were in Ocean Parkway, of course, Shabbosim we're by the Rebbe, and we used to try to whenever we had a chance to come. Interesting, mem mem alef, you'll see there were many, many surprise farbrengens. And I remember, like, we used to be like already seider. We used to hear they said surprise farbrengen, surprise sicha. We used to run the street, grab the first car, and run at seven seventy. It was like we were more living in seven seventy than in... Like, I'll give you dugme. Friday, coming back from Yaffo, right away it's seven seventy. Motzei Shabbos, we were the whole night in seven seventy when there was the famous revolution, Tosafot Vaychi, right? So I was there in seven seventy. We used to hang around seven seventy the whole time. Like, any free moment we were in seven seventy. Of course, we had, we had to learn in yeshiva, but the, the, I don't know, the free time, what does the bochur do in the free time? He goes seven seventy. He runs seven seventy for mincha and seven seventy for ma'ariv. Whatever. Whenever we were able to run out of the yeshiva and be able to come seven seventy, that was the any moment was, uh... In Kimovim, for example, Pesach, and everyone home. And of course, Tisha, nothing to talk about. But I, I didn't wanna go

28:13 Speaker 1 home בכלל. That's why I was zoche to be here, mem alef, by the birchas Hama and, uh, everything. I never went home for Pesach. There was no such a thing. When I-- From I left Italy, I never was back home for Pesach. I knew that I came to the Rebbe, and that's it. It's, uh, there's nothing else. And that's why leaving for those two years was very, very, very hard. It was mamash heartbreaking. I decided that's it, I'm not gonna do that ever again. And then come seven seventy already, that was incredible. Actually, mem dalet already in Maristan was... I could say that then we were mamash מתגלב in seven seventy. It was like, uh, you know, the whole everything was around seven seventy.

28:52 Speaker 3 So you, you mentioned that you did chazara in, in the yeshiva. So I mean, you're young, you're a young bochur at that point. But I'm saying right away you are, you, you, you're able to, to, to focus and, and, and make sure you're understanding the farbrengens and, like-

29:08 Speaker 1 I look back now, I say I didn't understand anything. I was very stupid and in The whole concept that I remember I had a, a melamed who used to tell us, "Chasidi shabacha," he says, "sichas in the pocket." We used to say, "Why, why, why do we have pockets in our jackets?" In order to have one pocket a lichan, one pocket a nochan, uh- That's where you live the whole, the whole the whole week. And the Koch was not only about learning it, it was Ha'aretz and, uh, and -

31:23 Speaker 3 You were involved with the Ha'aretz, no?

31:24 Speaker 1 Yeah, in Maristan, that year, Mem Dalet, that was in the, in the Ha'aretz, which was an amazing year for Ha'aretz. It was probably the year of Ha'aretz.

31:31 Speaker 3 So explain a little bit about what, what the Ha'aretz is. The Ha'aretz is, it's the, it's the Sichas, right?

31:35 Speaker 1 There were different Ha'aretz was, uh, in some '70s started the Ha'aretz originally, but actually those year, Mem Dalet, was very, very almost didn't go out. Then there was the Ha'aretz of and the Ha'aretz of Maristan. By the way, the Rebbe Mamesh gave a between the different Ha'aretz, that they shouldn't be copying and, you know, should be But that year it was a m-

31:57 Speaker 3 What do you mean?

31:58 Speaker 1 Huh?

31:58 Speaker 3 What do you mean they should be ?

32:00 Speaker 1 That they shouldn't print the same ideas, and if somebody has a in one place, they shouldn't answer that-

32:05 Speaker 3 They should be u-unique. They should be-

32:06 Speaker 1 They should be coordinated.

32:07 Speaker 3 Ah, okay.

32:07 Speaker 1 So can, uh... But, uh, Mem Dalet, the Koch by the Rebbe in Ha'aretz was incredible. First of all, whatever, at that the Rebbe pushed Ha'aretz was-- you heard it again and again. The Rebbe wanted people to ask Shailes, and Rebbe wanted them and, and -

32:25 Speaker 3 The Shailes in, in, on the Rebbe right? That's why they-

32:29 Speaker 1 Ninety-nine percent of Ha'aretz in those years was in the and the Likud. And so it mainly was in that Likud and that . That was mainly the Ha'aretz. S- Somebody once ordered a Ha'aretz on the Rashi, people started, I'm sorry, laughing. "Well, what's after Ha'aretz Rashi? That's not what the Ha'aretz is all about." Like, put into was a different special place that the Rebbe Mamesh, uh, wanted Bochum to, to put in a lot of . The Rebbe said it, uh, go to Rosh Yeshiva, you show the but was a, well, the place where in the Rebbe's late, last and, uh, and the Likud. And, uh, somehow that year, Mem Dalet, the Rebbe was an incredible Koch. In all the years you saw the Rebbe came down Friday night, in the back of the Siddur was all the and the Rebbe by Rebbe used to Mamesh look at the . You could see the Rebbe was Mamesh reading Ha'aretz after Ha'aretz. And he used to think, you know, he used to try to watch maybe the Ha'aretz that I wrote, the Rebbe's reading it, and like, and what is the Rebbe gonna talk about on Shabbos, and, uh-

33:30 Speaker 3 'Cause the Rebbe interacted with the Ha'aretz, right?

33:32 Speaker 1 Mamesh. Almost every Rebbe spoke about a Ha'aretz. And if the Rebbe didn't speak about a Ha'aretz, then the came out to the with the arrow. The represented the with the Ha'aretz in . And one of the special, special thing was that the Seder was that who got with the Rebbe in those years? Nobody. There was no such thing as getting .

33:51 Speaker 3 Unless you worked in the Sichas or, yeah.

33:53 Speaker 1 Or, or in the Sichas or in the Anochas or the . Those are the only people that got . And all of a sudden you're getting of the Rebbe because the Rebbe sent it to the . It wasn't an answer to a Shaale that the, all the answers, you know, the showed you what the Rebbe wrote, you were able to and that's it, and, and the Rebbe took it back. And here came, this came to the, the Koch and the whole, and Rebbe spoke with and the, and the Rebbe said, "Shaale in Rashi." Rebbe said the and then the whole week was a Koch to try to find answer the Shaale that the Rebbe wrote.

34:24 Speaker 3 Hmm.

34:24 Speaker 1 And then after everybody wrote all their and everything, hundreds of people, they were Koch the whole week, try to figure out the answer. Comes Rebbe Shabbos, and he gives an answer which is completely like-

34:33 Speaker 3 It's very interesting that the, the Rebbe also like, the Rebbe's like, the Rebbe's Mamesh-

34:37 Speaker 1 Teaching.

34:37 Speaker 3 Yeah, teacher, also like sharp.

34:39 Speaker 1 Oh.

34:39 Speaker 3 Like, like the Rebbe sharp with like, like-

34:41 Speaker 1 Sharp was, was the word sharp. The Rebbe Mamesh, the, the and every answer the Rebbe knocked it out, was given an answers. The Rebbe was trying to the Rebbe, Rashi, the Rebbe gave a and a and everything. All of a sudden you keep on answering these answers which are out of the-- What are you answering? Like, are, are we talking about Rashi? What are you-- And the, the answers of the Rebbe were like mind-boggling. Like, uh, it was incredible to see how the Rebbe gave answer that nobody to think about. I mean, one of the famous one was about, uh, and, uh, was the what, what's the why should they? They gave so many different answers from was Mamesh the whole week. The whole the whole Lubavitch was Koch. Like, who's gonna get the answer? Rebbe's gonna come and say, "Oh, finally somebody got the answer." What was the ans-answer of the Rebbe? Why would because was and from the the Kelev is the one that actually is like, he, he, he makes this-

35:49 Speaker 3 Barks

35:50 Speaker 1 ... barks on the, on the . And even though it was that, it didn't happen. I mean, only the Rebbe could ask that like the famous thing is a Shaale was the Rebbe no the Rebbe can answer them. Like Rebbe Shaale can -

36:01 Speaker 3 No, but it's, I think the Rebbe always says a lot of times that the things are so therefore nobody-

36:06 Speaker 1 Yeah

36:06 Speaker 3 ... realizes, realizes it and, and that, and that's the problem. We're not, we're not-

36:09 Speaker 1 For sure

36:10 Speaker 3 ... we're not using your-

36:10 Speaker 1 The Rebbe wanted the to start understanding with Rashi.

36:15 Speaker 3 It's very interesting that nothing is talked about enough, that it's, that the interacting with the Rebbe, like l-

36:24 Speaker 1 I'll tell you even more than interacting, if you wanna say it in a way, the, the whole Lubavitch was waiting for the . It was like the Rebbe built this, uh, it wasn't just, okay, he's gonna come to-- Rebbe made it and, and and every word was like, it's incredible to think of the way the Rebbe not only thousands of people in the room, n-no microphone, the noise from the air conditioners and everything, and you could hear a pin drop and, but the, the attention, even though the Rebbe spoke about many times, and, uh, but the truth is, I mean, I'm sure Rebbe meant if one person sleeping bother the Rebbe, But the was-- It, it's incredible to imagine how focused you are for five, six, seven, eight hours. It's like today when you watch a and, uh, you know, people watch a whole - And, and people don't have the patience to sit in through a whole farbrengen. You're talking about farbrengen after farbrengen after farbrengen, and the amount of information you have to also internalize it and, and, and live with it, and it was incredible. Incredible how the Rebbe was able to every farbrengen come. I remember as a bocher, as a young kid, I used to say, "Rebbe, all farbrengens, p- more or less he repeats the same things time after time. There's no chidushim, there's nothing new." Okay, he's gonna-- it's, it's geschmack to hear it again. There was not once the Rebbe repeated the same thing by farbrengen that

37:50 Speaker 1 Rebbe didn't already said once before. There was no such a thing ever. Every farbrengen was chidushim and chidushim and chidushim and chidushim. And, and if-- to get this information and to try to grow with this information was incredible. Like, from everything, everything, I mean, there are certain moments in, uh, talking about, you know, being with the Rebbe Tishrei, certain moments there were poshet, uh, the tkiyas and birchas habonim and hakafas. Those was, was just incredible to just to be able to, you know, watch it for a second, right? And you're there for time after time. But, um, there was nothing like a farbrengen. As much as all these giluim, we wanna know the atmas of the Rebbe, the koach of the Rebbe, the charangelekh in the farbrengen was incredible. Rebbe used to scream by farbrengen for hours. People don't realize, the whole seven hundred and seventy, and you could hear the Rebbe anywhere you were standing. And, and, and, and the Rebbe was mamash, gigos and gigos and everything and-

38:49 Speaker 4 So and but, but, but what's, h- what's interesting is that for us today, the hakafas and, uh, birchas habonim, I mean, you don't-- that's not available for, for us, but the farbrengens are available.

39:05 Speaker 1 Right. But I-- they're available, but it's not the same. I, I, I don't wanna chas veshalom make anybody, uh, disappointed, but watching farbrengen in a video and watching-- being by farbrengen, it's two worlds. It's, uh-

39:18 Speaker 4 Explain why.

39:21 Speaker 1 Because, uh, I, I give you a dugma, just an example. When the Rebbe said a ma'amar, from the moment that the nigun acharon started, how people also don't-- m- later, lately I've seen people mix it up. There's acharon when you say ma'amar, there's acharon when the Rebbe says the ma'amar. It's, the rastah is when the Rebbe says the ma'amar. There's other-

39:42 Speaker 4 By, by, by mitzvos they seem to do it for some reason, yeah.

39:45 Speaker 1 Right. But when the nigun, by me till today, when I hear the nigun acharon to the ma'amar of the Rebbe, I get a shiver. By me, mamash, till today, you have no idea what happened in the room at that moment. It wasn't like you felt that's it, that it, it's the Shechinah's coming down k'pshat and not only Shechinah but the presence of G-d. You see the Shechinah b'efun galui, the Rebbe face change completely. Like, the Rebbe went into a different, I don't know how to call it, mode, world, whatever. The Rebbe, till then Rebbe was talking to us, and then we see that the Rebbe is somewhere else. From the moment that they started singing the nigun, it wasn't only... And, uh, and that's it. And when the Rebbe started singing the ma'amar, it was like y- y- w-- it's i- it's impossible to describe what it means that your neshamah hears, you know, Kabbalas HaTorah, Har Sinai. It's like, uh, was if normally you say, you know, atmas musmol ba'guf gashmi, there's no guf gashmi. It's like i- it's something else. So you try to see that through a video. It's, uh, impossible. You can't, uh-

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42:48 Speaker 4 of Der Her through your financial support as well through visiting our website, derher.org, or through contacting us to setting up a meeting. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the podcast. So you're basically, what I'm hearing is that in your mind, the primary, I don't know what we call it, hashpa'ah of the Rebbe is like primarily the farbrengens. The, the, the-

43:13 Speaker 1 For sure, if you're talking about the way the Rebbe changed us was through farbrengen. The-

43:19 Speaker 4 You're talk- you're talking about

43:21 Speaker 3 The-

43:21 Speaker 1 Interaction

43:22 Speaker 3 ... the experience, or you're talking about the, what the Rebbe was saying?

43:26 Speaker 1 E-everything. The farbrengen, I mean, everything else was amazing. To be by Shacharis and Mincha, to dollars, everything was incredible. Like every... To watch the Rebbe walk in seven seventy, walk out of seven seventy and, uh, anything that happened, like whatever happened was incredible. But the, the feeling that the Rebbe is changing you and, and the feeling that you are mamash connecting with the Rebbe in a very pnimisike way is for sure the farbrengen. Nothing like it. After every farbrengen, you have to understand that in those days people didn't farbreng too much. Chassidim didn't farbreng. But one thing was after every farbrengen, people used to walk out and like be drunk. Was after every farbrengen, what you felt with Chassidim and you saw it in the air, you saw it like was like, "Wow, this was incredible." This was like never... There was never such a farbrengen ever. Like every farbrengen was, there was never such farbrengen ever. And, and the chidushim, whether, whether the first sefer, the second sefer was, was like incredible. It was mamash like-

44:37 Speaker 3 So let me ask you, uh, may-maybe there's, um, uh, throughout your years in seven seventy, are there, I don't know, one or two or three particular farbrengens that stick out in your mind as that had, that, that were, were, were, I don't know, a chiddush, a very, uh, a big haspa'a and a big change, uh, on, on you? Like something that sticks out.

44:57 Speaker 1 So for sure in our years was the tekufa, first of all, of shlichus, right? And of course, the, the Kinus Hashluchim farbrengen, but it was only the Kinus. Was, uh, we... Sometimes before and after. But in those, the, the nekuda of shlichus, the way the Rebbe came back to it again and again, not only the lamdus of shlichus and the idea of shlichus, we'd have learned the aveida of shluchim, and the way the Rebbe showed that, you know, there's nothing better than shluchim. From our class, everybody went out on shlichus. There's not one person that didn't go on a shlichus. It wasn't a shayach. Like the Rebbe was mamash at gemunt and, uh, like they say in the last, in the Yud, like, Yud Ches, Yud Tes, uh, the koch was about shlichus, tov shechov. And then slowly there were a lot of other themes on the table, right? And then in the middle of the mems, that's when again picked up and shlichus became the theme. Every farbrengen was about, about Chabad and shlichus, and everything was-

45:52 Speaker 3 Some of the late, the later mems.

45:53 Speaker 1 Yeah. I'm talking about from when I came to seven seventy. The mem, mem bet started and the mem zayin, of course, was like, uh, but shlichus was the nekuda atimus of the farbrengen and, and every farbrengen was another bamshala about shlichus. Like you mamash felt that the Rebbe's parshah teaching you how to do davening and how to... What, what it means to go as shliach. And, uh, where you see shlichus in the Torah, there were mamash, the koch was like, you know, all the parshas told this, "Vayeitzei, vayishlach." It was ongoing. It was like, uh, that for sure was the, one of the highlights. But then, uh, depends if you look at, again, there's memorim that was zecher to hear, and then there was, uh, sometimes farbrengen with Rebbe spoke about a inyan and went another farbrengen, another farbrengen, the next farbrengen. The Rebbe went on and people had shailas and, uh, the Rebbe took going back and whether it was the shtatfus in the Kinus Torah or it was, uh, again, a Rashis sefar. Anything was, was just incredible. Was, uh-

47:04 Speaker 3 So y-you were... May-maybe I'll ask you about this a little bit. I mean, you lived through the whole, um, tekufah vesarim.

47:13 Speaker 1 Right. I didn't live through it. We were in some seventies, so that's-

47:16 Speaker 3 You were there. Your body was there and the neshama was there. And the sh- all our neshamas were there. Your body was there.

47:21 Speaker 1 Yeah.

47:23 Speaker 3 So-

47:24 Speaker 1 I mean, this is something you can speak about for hours. The whole, uh, the whole situation. But first of all, people today, after the nitzotchan, people take it for granted there should've been a nitzotchan. The truth is it wasn't, that wasn't the avira. Like, al pi derech hateva, nobody understood even how it's gonna be such a nitzotchan. Like the whole-

47:44 Speaker 3 Yeah

47:44 Speaker 1 ... worry-- For sure. The whole-

47:45 Speaker 3 'Cause I heard from, I heard from other people different things, like.

47:48 Speaker 1 No, this for sure. Listen, the, the people that understood, you spoke to people that were involved, they didn't know how this was gonna end. You have to understand, al pi derech hateva, somebody that is poor and he's asking, "Give me a little," like, "I'm, I have no money." Why did he take this farhim? Because he wanted to sell them. He wanted to make money. So on one end, you have somebody that is, claims that he wants to get a yerusha, he wants to get something, he didn't get anything. He got zero. And then this is this, you know, community that has endless amount of, uh-

48:17 Speaker 3 Resources

48:17 Speaker 1 ... resources and, and just give me a little money and that's it. Like, uh, and, uh, and then, and, and any shofet will try to make some kind of peshara. Like, uh, today you see, like you don't go 100% on one side. And then there was the whole question, is it gonna be a jury, it won't be a jury. And then they took the shofet when Sift and them came up. It was a big, big discussion. Is it good for us? Not good for us. Move on. And then came the time of the mishpat of the Sefardim. The biggest Chassidim, they were supposed to testify for us, it wasn't easy. I mean, the... Practically most of them failed. I don't wanna chas veshalom say names, but because it's not easy to explain this, what was trying to be brought out. I mean, everybody talks today about the rebbetzin's, uh, deposition, whatever it's called. It was above and beyond any of all the big momchim that were prepared for hours and everything, and nobody did such a job. Nobody was able to bring out the point-

49:13 Speaker 3 You're saying the guys that were got up on the stand?

49:15 Speaker 1 Right. And, and the cross-examination wasn't easy. The, these lawyers are professional people to bring you to a corner and then you're stuck, and then, and, and you can't lie, and you can't... You have to... It wasn't easy. You're sitting there in the, in the hall. I was there every day. I was lucky because all the... It was a giral who could go in. Chabad were getting very upset at the Lubavitcher. We took over the whole place. It was like, uh, seven seventy moved to the courtroom, and there was noise and everything, and we had... And they were saying, "Listen, what, look what they are doing and everything." But b'pel, w-whichever bochur from the Israelis that was zecher b'giral, he couldn't understand anything what was going on, so they gave me their place. I was there, Baruch Hashem, every day.

49:55 Speaker 3 What, what do you mean?

49:57 Speaker 1 The way there was... I mean, there was some Chassidim that came every day and sat in the front row, Rabbi Mendy, Likahulu. And then there were a certain number of seats for the bochurim. So let's say there were 25 places for bochurim. So from the whole seven seventy, they made a giral which bochurim could go in tobe there during the hearings. So when the name of the Israeli Bochur came up, what would he do? He would go in and not understand anything. So they asked me, I should go in and write down what's going on and send out. So the whole time-

50:27 Speaker 3 Pshat Meiser?

50:28 Speaker 1 Pshat Meiser. So I was there writing down everything, and every page that was written up, I sent it out.

50:34 Speaker 3 So your pa-- they were passing on your papers?

50:35 Speaker 1 Yes. So they went out from the courtroom, the Bochurim were waiting outside to hear what's going on. So I had to write quick and finish a paper and send it out, and write and send it out. That's how I got the place to be inside. So I was there for all the hearings.

50:47 Speaker 3 You, you were the maniah of the court case .

50:50 Speaker 1 At that time, we thought that actually we didn't even understand that just writing a stenogram, and then we thought that we're gonna publish this one day.

50:55 Speaker 3 Ah.

50:55 Speaker 1 And then they said, "Chas ve'Shalom" to the Megillas, the Nanotach, the Rebbes, Mamish, very strong against. We, we had a plan that we're gonna, you know, print a encyclopedia of the, with the Hares and everything, uh, the issues that were discussed by the-

51:10 Speaker 3 And by the way, till today, I mean, people have it, but it's not, it's a

51:13 Speaker 1 Right.

51:14 Speaker 3 All the transcripts.

51:14 Speaker 1 Rebbe didn't want it.

51:15 Speaker 3 Yeah.

51:18 Speaker 1 I'm not sure they wanted all this for him, but the, the, the Nanotach. It came out a whole bunch of Sforim today.

51:23 Speaker 3 Right.

51:23 Speaker 1 Not much. There's some Sforim came out about the whole court case.

51:26 Speaker 3 Oh, the books about it, yeah.

51:27 Speaker 1 Yeah, the story.

51:27 Speaker 3 Yeah.

51:27 Speaker 1 I'm not, I'm not sure that that's what the Rebbe wanted. Whatever. It's, uh, if to hear the Sicha again and hear the Lashon of the Rebbe, the Rebbe was very, very sharp not to... Whatever. But, um, to expect that the Psak Din would be the way it was, I, I don't think too many people expected such a Nitzachim. And you have to understand, it wasn't only we're gonna win or not win. There was the whole Lubavitch was on the stake. If Rebbe see it, right? When I understand now that it would have been impossible. But if the Rebbe would have lost, the Rebbe wouldn't-- didn't take this Sforim as the issue of the Sforim. The Sforim was the Nesiu. The Sforim was everything, was like an, an Nachal HaVaY, and everything. From the Alter Rebbe, it was clear that this is gonna be like-

52:09 Speaker 3 Rebbe says, "The Machan, the Alter Rebbe, and all Rebbeim," right?

52:11 Speaker 1 Yeah.

52:11 Speaker 3 The, the Rebbe-

52:12 Speaker 1 You could hear Mamish Rebbe saying it, but for bringing it was-

52:14 Speaker 3 The Rebbe said, talking to Rashag when the Rebbe said-

52:16 Speaker 1 Right. The Rebbe was screaming.

52:18 Speaker 3 You could, you were able to hear it?

52:19 Speaker 1 Mamish. Rashag was, came over and they were trying to, to calm the Rebbe down . The opposite happened. The Rebbe Mamish was... And, um-

52:28 Speaker 3 So what did he hear? That the Rebbe said some, some Machan, Kagan-

52:31 Speaker 1 Alter Rebbe, the Mitre Rebbe, and Samach Tzedek, and Rebbe DeShver. It was Mamish, was, uh... The Rebbe said all the Rebbeim. It's, uh... But the Rebbe, this was clear. It was a Milchonah, uh, about Yut Shvat. It wasn't about, uh... And, um, and to expect such a Nitzachim, very few people. I may remember going on the train to the court case, and they had to prepare. Like, th- they were working overtime. Like, the day before was a hearing, and then they had to work the whole preparing for the next hearing. Who are gonna be the next... And, and trying to get as much as you can. And Rebbe says to do one thing, and prepare to listen to the Rebbe. The Rebbe wanted they should say what the Rebbe says in their Ahavah. And it wasn't the Rebbe's argument. It wasn't a, a, you know, a normal court case argument. The Rebbe appeal can move and, you know, what Rebbe said, that's what happened. But-

53:18 Speaker 3 So you're saying that the-

53:19 Speaker 1 But-

53:20 Speaker 3 The great Simcha-

53:21 Speaker 1 I'm telling-

53:21 Speaker 3 Of Heites

53:22 Speaker 1 ... I'm saying big Chassidim, they were very, very worried. Very worried.

53:27 Speaker 3 And, and you're saying because of that, that explains the, the tremendous Simcha of Heites.

53:33 Speaker 1 I say because it's the same way that you speak about Yud Beis Tammuz or Yud Tes Kislev, that that was the moment. If not, Chassidus would have ended. I believe that Al Pi Derech Hateva, if Chas ve'Shalom, again, would have been impossible, same way Yud Tes Kislev, without Yud Tes Kislev wouldn't have been impossible.

53:50 Speaker 3 So I don't under- I don't think people understand what that means. What, what, what, what, why?

53:53 Speaker 1 Why? Because the Rebbe just was as if you're saying as, that's it, Yut Shvat Ov Shin Yud, Lubavitch stopped existing. So the whole afterwards is not really, it's not really the truth. It's not really... It has to be Leini Chol Ha'Amim, and it has to be that the world recognizes as the Rebbe is the Rebbe. And if you come and say that it's a Yerush, I mean, the Rebbe is not the Rebbe. That's, that's in the Shaila. So it wasn't about who's gonna get this Sforim. It was about where's the Nosi? Will the world recognize that the Rebbe is the Rebbe? And again, the Rebbe could have made Sha'Sh Til, nobody knew about it. He got the Sforim, and, and that's it, and nobody would have known. Nobody should have known. Al Pi Derech Hateva, the way the world runs, people would have suggested to the Rebbe-

54:36 Speaker 3 They did, I think, no?

54:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm saying, and, and that's it. Let's keep it quiet. Buy back the Sforim. The guy's gonna have some money, and that's it. Nobody's gonna hear it. There will be no Chilul Hashem, no talk, no, no danger, no risk. Behulu. So the Matza, why am I saying it? That the, the Lachats was incredible. I mean, I'll give you Dugma. At a certain point, the Bochurim decided they're gonna say Tehillim every day for Sefer Chassidus. Six o'clock in the morning, seven seventy was packed every single day. Six o'clock to seven thirty, Tehillim.

55:06 Speaker 3 The only time in history, yeah .

55:08 Speaker 1 No, there was another time after, yeah.

55:09 Speaker 3 After another-

55:10 Speaker 1 After Heites

55:11 Speaker 3 Oh, okay. After the Rebbe spoke the Sicha, yeah.

55:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. That was, seven seventy was-

55:18 Speaker 3 But six o'clock in the morning.

55:19 Speaker 1 Right.

55:19 Speaker 3 Yeah.

55:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. Six o'clock after Mikveh, seven seventy was packed every single day. And, uh, again, the Lachats was incredible. And you saw the Rebbe, the Lachats, and everything was like, it was not a easy Tikufeh, but, um-

55:39 Speaker 3 So the moment of Heites was, uh, was like a burst of, uh-

55:43 Speaker 1 For sure

55:44 Speaker 3 ... relief, what, what, what a Simcha, what a-

55:46 Speaker 1 Simcha was, uh, first of all, just you should understand, it was border Kashemesh Be'Eretz that Moshiach is coming in five minutes. It wasn't a Shaila. The same way that I remember Yud Aleph, Nisan, and Mem Bet was border Kashemesh, Meini U'Shana, that's it That's it, Moshiach is coming, Andrew Dalef Nissan. Like, people are waiting any moment, when is it gonna happen? Dalef Nissan was over, and Moshiach didn't come. So then all of a sudden, oh, Zainod, it's really Dalef Nissan, but Mesher had been to Pesach, so it's also gonna be like Beimer. And then, and it's all of a sudden really, you know, I'm embarrassed. Shemen Yeshan, the Moshiach didn't come, it was like a shock. Like, we were so sure. But after the Nitzochen, after Hey Teves, was clear as Moshiach could come in. Like, people thought that they said, "With this simcha, we're gonna go into the gulag." It was clear. This was like the biggest Nitzochen ever. Sadly, but nizderchi given.

56:39 Speaker 3 So what do you say about that?

56:41 Speaker 1 That, uh, the question of Admossai is, uh, it's a strong question. I have no answer.

56:50 Speaker 3 See, that, that was a, that was a hype, a hype that, uh-

56:55 Speaker 1 Yes, and we felt that, I mean, Rabir spoke then, it was even greater than Yutaskislev, greater than everything. Hercher Fanaz, DeMaar, Vachulu, but we felt that we are not only witnessing, you know, Yutaskislev or Yud Beistamus or whatever. Like, this never happened in history. It was like you were there a moment of, uh... Actually, it was interesting because with the Srutha Dusatha, the whole, everything, when, when the Re- they announced that the Rebbe would come down to Mincha, like-

57:27 Speaker 3 On Hey Teves.

57:27 Speaker 1 On Hey Teves. We didn't expect that to happen aft- in those few hours.

57:31 Speaker 3 'Cause the Rebbe davened upstairs.

57:32 Speaker 1 No, the Rebbe was davening upstairs always, I'm saying. But bechlal, even the reaction of the Rebbe to, to the Besura, we heard right away of the way the Maskirim came out, and like the Rebbe, and, and we were going crazy. And, and all of a sudden they announced that Mincha downstairs. But Mincha is downstairs also. The Mincha, we thought this would be some Chasdei Vachulu, you know, no Tachnun and everything, and, uh, Boruch Hashem there was a chasun there and saved the situation.

57:55 Speaker 3 The Rebbe started saying, yeah. Um, I mean, the Rebbe's, there was a sicha, the, the Rebbe spoke.

58:01 Speaker 1 After the Rebbe spoke, and the sicha was also. So the yunge chassidim, the, the vault of the-

58:08 Speaker 3 That and the, but-

58:08 Speaker 1 The Mitteler Rebbe.

58:09 Speaker 3 The Mitteler Rebbe. Which, uh, it's interesting because actually, the Rebbe said this other times, that it's the Mitteler Rebbe that explained Lab- Lab Midde site. But, uh, other times it says that it's, uh, Achir HaMaril, I think.

58:21 Speaker 1 Right.

58:21 Speaker 3 You know? Yeah. But, but I heard the Rebbe said it other times also before this, so, so.

58:25 Speaker 1 But, so the yunge chassidim, the word yunge chassidim was like a, that was a gushpank, okay, you know, you guys are crazy, but, uh-

58:30 Speaker 3 You guys are doing the right thing. I mean, listen, but the Peh of the Rebbe, people talk about it, that the Rebbe's reaction wasn't on the same wavelength as the Eilam, but the Peh of the Rebbe said a sicha every night then.

58:41 Speaker 1 Right, and also the sh- the, the sicha upstairs in some '70 about, uh, writing to the Eil and everything. I mean, for sure it was like... But the, if the simcha was the way the Rebbe expected there should be the simcha, you have to... Some people were like, "We, we didn't go back to our rooms." We were like in some '70, or some '70 or Miftzoim or whatever. It was... A week later, we came back to our room. We didn't recognize where, like we, and we left. Like it was, uh-

59:08 Speaker 3 So I think it doesn't make sense for me to sit with you and not ask you about, uh, shlichas in, in Russia. So I wanna know a little bit about how it began, and also like, I mean, it w- this was all at the time of before the fall of communism and after the fall of communism. I mean, when I, when I was growing up, this was like, it wasn't, this wasn't stories that people were living through this or like it was fresh. But I think by t- uh, today, I don't think people, people take it for granted that there was, there was the whole different massive and then there's whole shtashlas of how it happened. So how did you get involved in this and how, how, how did it start? Now-

59:47 Speaker 1 First of all, even if I was a little kid, you saw in the sichas and we heard and the way the Rebbe tzarch gekocht wegen, uh, what's going on in Russia was, uh, Be'evi Fabringen, the Bezelechaim, Vachulu, was, was a known thing that this is mamish. The same way there's Meyer Yudi and there's Shlomo Sorets, there's Russian Jews. Like, uh, this was the issue that Rebbe was mamish and, and you saw the Rebbe crying when the Rebbe spoke about Russian Eden, what's going on in Soviet Union. Was, uh, I mean, y- you had to be, uh, you know, lever evan that when the Rebbe spoke about, uh, the, what's going on, achei lamaso chabazel, they wouldn't touch you. The Rebbe would cry in front of the Eilam, like in ways that, uh, and nothing else. I don't think there was anything else that the Rebbe Pashet cried, and you saw like, uh, the vey tok. And, um, going back to how did I get involved? So first of all, the whole avira in Lubavitch was about that, number one. And of course, hearing stories about what's going on, not what was Geshana Mol, what was going on in those years. You know, people used to hear it here in bits and barely leave you coming back and showing the Rebbe the videos. And then, uh, cats going to Russia and then different stories of then when some people started coming out of Russia. I remember when Izzy Cogan came to 770 and other chassidim, they

1:01:15 Speaker 1 came out. It was like this, uh, very, very... Everything was, you know, a secret. Everything was quiet. Nobody could know anything. But then all of a sudden, the Rebbe started sending more and more shlichim, mainly Rabbonim, to Russia. So it was, uh, again, people used to go up to get mashke, and they didn't annou- announce anything, so-

1:01:36 Speaker 3 Everyone knew.

1:01:37 Speaker 1 Everybody more or less thought that probably there is that, but you can't even talk about it. You're not allowed to talk. And kemuven, starting from like Be'emert of Shimen, the Sif in Russian and then the Malef, the Rebbe spoke in Russian 770. Nobody understood a word. The Rebbe's speaking to evidence that something is going on, something is happening. So I believe that every bochur then had a dream that maybe one day they'll go to Russia, and they started sending bochurim. At a certain point, they started sending bochurim. I, I don't think there was any bocher then, some seventy in those years that didn't have a dream that will be zecher. So when they asked me, of course, right away I said, "I'm ready to go." But you have to get shuls from Dan Holer, shuls from the parents, and then right to the Rebbe. And, uh, when, actually when I went, it was a chidush because what happened till then, they used to send Rabbonim mainly, and used to come for, to Russia for a week, give shiurim, and then a few months later, another Rav came, mashpia, whatever, and again-

1:02:35 Speaker 3 Who is, who is there? Who, who are they going to?

1:02:37 Speaker 1 They're going to all the... First of all, there were still very few, but there were some Chassidim fun a mol that stayed.

1:02:44 Speaker 3 Rabbi Gatcha.

1:02:45 Speaker 1 Rabbi Gatcha, right. Mainly Rabbi Gatcha, but also there are a few more, and they made the baal teshuvas more or less. They're the ones that convinced young people they were interested to start learning, but nobody was teaching them. So the biggest problem they had that there was nobody teaching. So it's to bring Rabbonim mainly to teach. But each Rav came with his shiurim, and he gave whatever. Somebody taught Halacha Shabbes, somebody else, uh, Chassidus, uh, something else. And then, uh, and they used to leave, and then the next Rav came, and then he gave shiurim on a different topic. So people were getting all mixed up, like how could you learn in such a way? So they decided they're gonna start a yeshiva. The yeshiva will be meeting in apartments, yeshiva on wheels every day somewhere else. But the bochurim and the yungerleit could come to shiurim and seder and start learning in a mesechta and hemshacha, memorim, v'chulo. So when I went, actually, that was the first group that started going for a month and a half. The idea was to teach, and then the new group would come and take over, and that this way you have almost the whole time you have teachers, and they're learning, they start learning Gemara and Halacha and Chassidus, like st- But we're already learning already the, the amkus, like Gemara with Mefarshim and Hasheinim, Achronim, Hemshach Samach Vav, whatever. There were people that were very, very intelligent and, and moved on. So the main thing was

1:04:01 Speaker 1 actually teaching. That was our shlichus. If Rabbonim was also paskening shailes and issues, but else was mainly from morning to night teaching the people there. And, uh, that's it. And then groups of bochurim started going, so it became a very, very in thing to go to Russia. Every month, a new group went. And, um, Baruch Hashem, I was zecher to go three times as a bocher. So it was, normally people went once, and that's it. It was enough for them. Like they had the experience.

1:04:31 Speaker 3 They did, they did it.

1:04:32 Speaker 1 They had the experience, and it wasn't an easy experience. You have to teach from six thirty, seven o'clock in the morning to one o'clock at night. And the whole time you're on this, and you have to prepare for it. You can't just come and teach. The people there were very, very intelligent. People used to all of a sudden out of the blue ask a yeshiva between a hemshacha here and a hemshacha there, and like, a- as much information as you had, that's, uh, how you managed to get through and, and, uh, that's it. And then Baruch Hashem, after we got married, so a year later, the Rebbe... Lechatchila we wanted to go right after Sheva Berachos. We were ready to go.

1:05:06 Speaker 3 So you somehow connected to the inyan of Russia. You went back nu-m-nu-numerous times, and then you decided you're going there permanently.

1:05:15 Speaker 1 I, I went there many times as a bocher, three times, which was very rare in those years, but I was very, very connected to the people there. Even when I came back, when I had the lunch break in yeshiva, I used to run to Ezer Zachim, which was the organization that was in touch with the people there. I used to call and ask them, "What do you need? What can we send? And, uh, what are the problems?" And whatever. I try, I shiur them on the phone.

1:05:39 Speaker 3 Right. So you, so when you're here, you were on the phone with them.

1:05:42 Speaker 1 Right. And getting a phone line was also very difficult. You had to order it. It was a whole, wasn't easy. And, uh, one of the things was also sometimes they had shailas to the Rebbe, so they could ask me, and then I would send in the settel. So whatever. It was very special to be connected to these, I believe-

1:05:59 Speaker 3 So you were, you were giving over answers from the Rebbe to these people?

1:06:01 Speaker 1 Not all of it. Some.

1:06:03 Speaker 3 Some of it.

1:06:03 Speaker 1 Things went, uh, but it was very, very special to be connected to these people, emesem Chassidim. The amazing thing was that they never saw the Rebbe, but they were mekusharim with Kashrus in an incredible way. Like everything, mitzvos, mamash mesirus nefesh for anything with the Rebbe. Like, I'll give you a dugma. When the new nigun of Rosh Chodesh Nissan came, so they all gathered to be able to have a phone call and hear the nigun. And then everything, every heara, every farbrengen, what the Rebbe speak about was like they wanted mamash. They had an incredible thirst to hear what's going on, but they were mamash disconnected. So we felt that we could try to give them as much as we can. After Sheva Berachos, me and my wife wrote to the Rebbe that we're ready to go on shlichus to Russia. And the community there was asking us to come, and we appealed. The Rebbe said no. That the first year, Rebbe answered, "Ki yadua to be in a neishuna, the nesheyu bnei Yisrael, haMedaykim b'Torah and mitzvos." So it was more about my wife than about me.

1:07:04 Speaker 3 That you should, you should be in a community that has nesheyu bnei... I guess because Russia's a, a wasteland.

1:07:10 Speaker 1 Right. So we appealed a year later already.

1:07:13 Speaker 3 So a year later, she stayed in Kehila. You went to Kehila for a year.

1:07:16 Speaker 1 Right. And then, uh, that was Tu Bishvat, which was also, the Rebbe spoke then so much about Russia. Preferred the Rebbe was to speak about Russia, about the, the problems and the, and the Rebbe mamash breaking this Iron Curtain. And then the Rebbe starts speaking about the Nissan they will see, which was incredible. Rebbe once used the lashon "Nischaltu degula" what's going on in Russia.

1:07:35 Speaker 3 It's crazy.

1:07:37 Speaker 1 And then, um-

1:07:38 Speaker 3 So, so, well, so when you moved there, it was a- it was right after the fall?

1:07:44 Speaker 1 No. It was before the fall. It was still the Soviet Union, it was still communism, but it got much easier. When I first came the first time, which was Cheshvan Mem Ches, then it was mamash the beginning, beginning. You saw the beginning. Nobody believed it's actually happening and it's true. Nobody understood what it meant that they are saying, you know, these words, glasnost, perestroika, whatever. They're gonna make changes. Nobody believed it's gonna affect religion or- Whatever, they wanted to show "" that they're open, but there's still gonna be communism, communism. And communism was still there, and the Soviet Union was there, and, uh, and Moscow Chabad was there. So there were some... We saw some changes, but it was mamish nothing compared to what the Rebbe was saying it's gonna happen.

1:08:28 Speaker 3 And af- and at-- while you were there, that's when the whole thing fell.

1:08:31 Speaker 1 And slowly you saw big changes, and then once we moved there as shlichos, so it was actually, it was an incred- It was once... We were already there, but the Rebbe spoke then Chanukah Live in the Kremlin.

1:08:42 Speaker 3 I was gonna, I was gonna ask you about Chanukah Live. Rebbe ta-ta-talking about Chanukah Live, what was-

1:08:46 Speaker 1 So what happened, I mean, it was first Chanukah Live was actually when I wasn't there yet. It was Teves nun. Chanukah Teves nun. And they did it then in the shul. It was not such a big crowd. Nun alef was already, uh, Chanukah nun alef, we took a big hall, the Fiere, part of the television station where the central television station is, so we could have a satellite that will really work well. And there were a few hundred people. It was still a Fiere small. And then came nun beis, Chanukah nun beis, and that's when we thought, "Let's do it big." So we had this idea, where is the biggest hall? The biggest hall was in the Kremlin. It's a hall that has six thousand places. And I had somebody helping me, and I told them, "That's it, we wanna do it there." And this person actually said, "You know what? We could try. The only one that can give permission is, uh, Gorbachev. He has to sign it." And that was the first religious event in the Kremlin.

1:09:44 Speaker 3 Wow.

1:09:45 Speaker 1 We're talking about the Kremlin, which was fighting religion, all of a sudden gives permission to make a religious event. When we're finding out the permission, and actually Gorbachev himself signed, gave permission for it, then there were Chassidim that started screaming at me that I'm crazy. How could I do such a thing? Wild, meshuga in the Kremlin, and Rebbe is gonna speak in the Kremlin. I felt at that time that, that-

1:10:08 Speaker 3 What, what was their opposition?

1:10:10 Speaker 1 Because it's a place of tumah. I don't know. It's a place that is not fit for the Rebbe.

1:10:14 Speaker 3 They don't, they don't understand how, uh

1:10:15 Speaker 1 It was a big Chassidim. I'm not gonna say their names. They were mamish screaming, screaming. They were mamish, like, uh... And, uh, I decided, "That's it, I'm gonna write to the Rebbe." And I wrote the whole thing to the Rebbe. The people are saying maybe we shouldn't do it, but we already ordered the place. We already have the place, and we, we feel it's gonna be a big, big Kiddush Hashem. And the answer was "Ask Hared Tzion", which I didn't understand what it meant. But I asked then Leibele, asked Reb Groner, "What does it mean, ask Hared Tzion?" He said, "If the Rebbe didn't want it to happen, the Rebbe would have told you not to do it." The Rebbe said, "Ask Hared Tzion." He says, "Go ahead, and you have the Rebbe's broche," which was a miracle the way everything happened. But, uh, there was six thousand places. In a few hours, all the tickets were sold, and then people were trying to buy the tickets, ready to pay meshuga amount of money in those years to get into the Kremlin. When the event actually happened that night, there were probably fifteen thousand people trying to get into the-

1:11:11 Speaker 3 Wow

1:11:11 Speaker 1 ... into the hall. There was a anti-Semitic demonstration, like fifty people standing there were not gonna let the Jews step on the holy stones of the Kremlin. It was like a mamish m'pacheh. But after the Rebbe spoke in the Kremlin, that's when the Soviet Union fell apart. And there was a sicha then-

1:11:26 Speaker 3 What do you mean? I thought it was before. This is in the beis you're talking about.

1:11:29 Speaker 1 Chanukah in beis, that's when the, that's when the flag of the Soviet Union came down from the Kremlin.

1:11:34 Speaker 3 Oh, so my whole history is, is, needs, uh, refre- uh, some refreshing. I... So the, the, the end of the fall of communism was in the beis?

1:11:42 Speaker 1 Yes. The official ending of the Soviet Union-

1:11:46 Speaker 3 They took the flag down

1:11:47 Speaker 1 ... that was after the Rebbe spoke in the Kremlin.

1:11:49 Speaker 3 Uh, uh.

1:11:50 Speaker 1 A week later. I mean, you could look at the date and look at the sichos of the Rebbe. The whole sicha of Tzfat and, uh, and Russia and the revolution, everything was... If you look at the farbrengen then of those weeks, around Chanukah nun beis, you see the Rebbe mamish telling you what's gonna happen.

1:12:05 Speaker 3 Right. And you could see, I mean, the whole thing, and we could see the, the Rebbe's attentiveness, the way the Rebbe's looking in the, in the, in the video.

1:12:11 Speaker 1 It was incredible.

1:12:14 Speaker 3 And I, and I, I can imagine for the people, it was all-

1:12:17 Speaker 1 The first time that the people saw the Rebbe. We're talking about a hall of six thousand people, the first time they're able to see the Rebbe in, in Russia. But the halls, we put up signs in the city of Moscow about this concert that was gonna happen, and it was. The Rebbe's gonna speak live from New York. And in the streets of Moscow, you have the Rebbe's name on a big sign, and tickets, tickets are gonna be sold. You can't sell the tickets on your own. You have to sell the tickets through the s- whatever, through the Kremlin, uh-

1:12:43 Speaker 3 Offices

1:12:43 Speaker 1 ... offices. It was like in three hours, you couldn't find a ticket. It was like crazy. It was mamish, like...

1:12:50 Speaker 3 So wh-when you went to Russia, you had in mind, I mean, y-you, you, you thought that, that this was gonna happen, or you had, you had no idea at the time?

1:13:03 Speaker 1 First of all, we went to Russia. It was, it was the first moment that we got permission to go there for more than just a tourist visiting. And the first time we went as a bocher, we were tourists. Officially supposed to go touring, and, uh, they were following us, KGB after us, and staying in the hotel. You had to pay crazy amount of money because you were official tourists. What we were doing, we weren't allowed to do it, really. And, um, you used to sneak out of the hotel and then take the metro, the train, because you can't take a taxi, because a taxi is also KGB people. They're gonna see where you went. And people, the local p- the main thing wasn't us. It was risking, putting the people, the local people in a risk. But, uh, thinking there's gonna change, the local people told us clearly nothing is gonna change. Like, don't even dream that things are gonna change. It was clear. Like they... Even though they heard messages from the Rebbe, that the Rebbe said things are gonna change, the people there said clearly, like, the Rebbe's talking about the Union and, uh-

1:13:59 Speaker 3 But, but, but you th- you thought, you thought that... What do you mean? The Rebbe said it's gonna change? Or like, whatever. I don't know.

1:14:04 Speaker 1 We didn't understand what it means gonna change. Like we thought, "Okay, it's gonna change. They won't be so tough. There won't be a KGB next to each home of each Chassid." And, uh, and you couldn't talk to people in shul. You used to walk into shul, they used to tell you, "You can't talk to this person because the KGB is gonna call him tomorrow and interrogate him, and he's gonna say what happened." And like we-- After being there for a month and a half, you were afraid to talk. You got into the plane, and we knew that's it, we left Russia. Took time to realize, you know what? You can start talking. You're, you're under this, uh, fear. Like they put you into this... From the moment you land, they make you understand that they know exactly who you are and what you're doing, and we are following you, and, uh, be careful. So to think that it's gonna change such a way, okay, we'll, we'll change. Something is gonna change. But the m'pacheh that happened in afterward when the Rebbe spoke, "Shnas nisim, v'raini fleis, v'fleis bakeil." I mean, you look at the sicha, the Rebbe's mainly talking about Russia, like it was incredible.

1:15:01 Speaker 3 So chashu v'kav acheimer, what happened later with the meistes, with the buildings, with, with the whole taking over-

1:15:07 Speaker 1 Sure

1:15:08 Speaker 3 ... that for sure was not, uh, in their machshava.

1:15:10 Speaker 1 Nobody dreamed that, uh... That for sure nobody expected such a change in, in the country that was the biggest anti-Semitic country in the world, that today is probably one of the safest place in the world for Yidden.

1:15:24 Speaker 3 Yidden, yeah.

1:15:24 Speaker 1 And, and everything is Chabad. Like, somebody asked like, uh, "What do you have besides Chabad?" Like, uh, Chabad, like so what, what's besides?

1:15:34 Speaker 3 Not the Chabad.

1:15:35 Speaker 1 So the whole, the Rebbe mamash, like, uh...

1:15:40 Speaker 3 And, and the crazy thing is that this was something that the Rebbe, this was from Frierdiker Rebbe, and the Rebbe, this was so near, near and dear and important place by the Rebbe, and then this, uh, and how it all transformed. So let me finish, let, let's finish, finish up. I wanna ask you one last question. You mentioned that the Rebbe, I mean, the Rebbe said it's one of the simanim of the geulah, the, the fall of the Iron Curtain and, and everything, the whole maapecha. So some people ask, the Rebbe spoke in Tosh Nun, Tosh Naval, about the simanim of the geulah, things are changing and, uh, right? The, the whole communism fell without a war. So is the, is the world getting closer to that? Or, or, or now, now we're back to Mohammed, like, Moshiach's not here 30, 35 years. Like, what, what's happening here?

1:16:24 Speaker 1 So I'm not a maivin to understand what's going on in the world for sure, and for sure not to be a dayazoger in the Rebbe's sichas, but it, this is the way I always think lately. I've been thinking about this a lot. Like, what is the Rebbe... First of all, it's very interesting. When you start thinking about it, what is the Rebbe almost by every farbrengen in those years, mainly Nun Alef, Nun Bet, but also Tosh Nun started, the Rebbe sharing with the Hasidim the news, what's going on in the world. Vu iz gevosen az azakh? When, when was the Rebbe telling Hasidim what happened in the UN, what happened to this meeting, and what they read, and what they, what they said, and what they wrote, and what, what the Hasidim have to farbrengen the news? Like, this doesn't make sense on one hand. On the other hand, the Rebbe speaking about already things, the chitzus charves on the Yitim and everything, like this is it, like dismantling all the... And you see what's going on today, it's mamash the opposite. Like, it, it completely turned around. So what, the Rebbe's nevuah isn't, wasn't fulfilled. I think that the Rebbe was, wasn't telling us the news. The Rebbe was telling us what is, what has to happen. The Rebbe was telling us a nevuah. At that moment was the beginning of the nevuah, mimaylo lamata, and now it has to happen mimata lamaylo. Now it has to be our work in order to make

1:17:39 Speaker 1 this happen, to make this a reality. So the Rebbe gave in, in, in velt that this is the Mitzios. The Mitzios and Mitchios of the world is the way the Helim is gonna go away, and it's gonna be geulah lekus. Did it happen? No, we're not the kelim yet that it should happen. We have to, it has to be mimata lamaylo. The whole chiddush of, uh, in all the sichas from, first of all, from the first maimar, and then the first sichas, Yutro Tosh Yud Alef, and Vato Tetzaveh, it's all about the chiddushit, the veida satachten in order to make this what the geulah is all about, mimaylo lamata, mimata lamaylo, atmus begiluy. So all this, the Rebbe's telling us the way it's gonna be. The Rebbe's telling us no, Nun Alef, Nun Bet, you understand what the Nissim, Nifloes, uh, Rena Nifloes, what is it gonna be? That's why I've said exactly this is the way it's gonna be. And the Rebbe's telling you not the news. Kamov in the Rebbe's mouth, mamash, the Rebbe's not gonna tell you on Tov, Shin, Peh, Vav, on Vav Tammuz, something's gonna happen. No, the Rebbe's telling you this is the plan. This is the way the Rebbe should bring everything down. Now start working. Now make it happen. So it's our aveida to turn the Rebbe's words that c-come mimaylo lamata, that should be our, we should be the kelim to be mekabel this. So for sure that the world is ready for this. For sure

1:19:55 Speaker 1 the Rebbe