Ep. 48: The Rebbe’s Kiruv To Me In 1953 with Rabbi Kasriel Kastel

00:00 Speaker 1 And I asked the Rebbe, I mean, if I'm working in Tzach, will I cons-be considered a shliach? Because, I mean, I w- they are, they are offering me other things as shlichas, but, uh, I wanna be a shliach, but... So the Rebbe said yes. He says, "Al mitot ha'avodah is men- is men a shliach." If you're doing a shliach, you know, it's irrelevant where you are.

00:21 Speaker 2 This episode is sponsored by Machne Israel. Stay tuned later in the episode to learn more about the new wedding hall packages provided by Machne Israel. I'm Yossi Kamen. Welcome to Among Chasidim by Der Her, an ongoing farbrengen about life as a Chasid, our vibrant connection with the Rebbe, and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. Shalom Aleichem, Rabbi Castel, how are you?

00:53 Speaker 1 Baruch Hashem. Have beautiful day today.

00:56 Speaker 2 Okay. Thank you very much for, uh, being here. And there's a lot that I wanna discuss with you regarding your shlichas and the work that you are doing till today in Tzach, Tzidkas Adoos Chabad. Um, maybe we should start before that and go into the roots. Um, I'm not sure myself. I mean, I, uh, in preparation for this conversation, I found out a little bit. Maybe you could tell me a little bit about where you come from, where the Castel mishpacha comes from, et cetera.

01:27 Speaker 1 Yeah. I think that it, it's sort of a, a bunch of hashgacha protis that happened over 100 years that made us, that brought it to this point. And I'll try and de-describe h- the various things which are in... At rechara, not connected, but all together add up to where we are.

01:46 Speaker 2 Sounds good.

01:46 Speaker 1 Okay. Uh, a little over 100 years ago, the, the... In Poland, the Slonimer Rebbe decided he wanted to visit different Rebbeim. We have it in our tradition, the that when he came to f- the Rebbe Rashab, um, that, uh, that, that he was, he was talking of learning, and they, there, there came up the discussion of , and, uh, and, and Rashi said, "From Yitzchak and Yaakov." So everybody asked, "So what else? I mean, what, what's the news?" So it's like-

02:20 Speaker 2 Which other avos are there?

02:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, what else could it mean? And, uh, so he said he gave an explanation. Uh, avos comes from the word ovah, desire, taavah. That when somebody truly wants, the Avos will reveal himself to him. That was his pshat. So the Fr- the Rebbe Rashab li- loved the word, and called in the Friediker Rebbe, and says, "Hear, hear the vort from the Slonimer Rebbe, that, um, this vort, that ovah comes from the word, from taavah." So I mean, this is, this... Okay, this is a, a story. This is, we have in our tradition, this story. It's in our sichas. Um, there's another tradition which I didn't see, and I don't know if it's a sichas where it is, that is, that he came back and he said, he s- he met, he saw the Rebbe Rashab, and he had a, a golden, a s- golden, uh, w- watch in this pocket, and a golden watch in that pocket, and a broken heart in between.

03:13 Speaker 2 Hmm.

03:13 Speaker 1 The, these, this is-- Slonim doesn't have this stuff. Um, this is, this is our tradition. Um, so after he came back from that trip, he came back to his community, and he did a, uh, uh, he gave a tish, like, you know, our version of a farbrengen. Now, my zeide was a young bocher.

03:35 Speaker 2 What was his name?

03:37 Speaker 1 Yeshua Tanchum. Uh, excuse me, not my father. Yosef Dave Castel. At the time it was Castelanitz. The Castelanitz family is a very prestigious family in Slonim, going back to the Talmidim of Baal Shem Tov. I don't have the whole list, but I mean, but that's what I was told. And most of them, the generations were rabbonim. I mean, it was a choshuv family, and m- and, and they married very much into the, into the Rab- the Rebbe families in, in Slonim. Um, my zeide was a youn- a yosom at a very young age. He lost his father, and he was very traumatized by that experience. And the Slonimer Rebbe sort of like took an interest in him. I think there was some, there's some relationship, but took an interest in helping him, you know, develop. So he was there at the tish. This is the story the way I heard it. And at the, and at the tish, you know, peop- af- when the Rebbe takes a little bit himself, and everybody grabs the rest. You know, like we did with Mazanas.

04:36 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

04:37 Speaker 1 Which was really never a Lubavitcher thing. It was something we stole from, uh, from them.

04:41 Speaker 2 From others.

04:41 Speaker 1 Yeah. Um, but, uh, so the story goes that when, uh, when... Well, the, there's even a s- source, but I don't know how reliable it is. There's a, uh, this, this Hilles Zaltzman, um, Port O Sefer in Sum- Samarkand, and he writes a story over there about a Slonimer Hasid who was in Lubavitch. Now, I think it, it's too, too many interesting c- comparisons that, that it shouldn't, that it couldn't be my zeide. I mean, how often do you, how many Slonimer Hasidim did you have in Lubavitch?

05:17 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

05:18 Speaker 1 But the Slonimer Rebbe, when my zeide went to give it, the Slonimer Rebbe took his hand and says, "This is not for you."

05:23 Speaker 2 "Chabad."

05:23 Speaker 1 "You should go to Lubavitch."

05:24 Speaker 2 "Chabad is not for you."

05:26 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. "You should go to Lubavitch."

05:28 Speaker 2 Hmm.

05:29 Speaker 1 I sort of heard that story, but I, I'm putting, I might be putting some pieces together.

05:34 Speaker 2 Okay.

05:34 Speaker 1 Okay? And the way Zaltzman tells the story, that he heard from somebody in L- who was in Lubavitch, and pretty much some of the details sound the same, but my, my uncle Aaron has, has questions about the dateline and everything else, but okay, kasha. Um, uh, that when he came to Lubavitch, he came with, with Lubavitchim.

05:56 Speaker 2 He came to Lubavitch, to Rebbe Rashab-

05:58 Speaker 1 Yeah

05:58 Speaker 2 ... to Rebbe Rashab.

05:59 Speaker 1 Yeah, 'cause that's what the Slonimer Rebbe told him to do.

06:01 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

06:02 Speaker 1 And he was there- And he was davening according to the minhag, you know, with a lot of his, you know, enthusiasm, et cetera, et cetera. In Chabad, we don't really have much patience for that stuff. So he said they were really broyfing him. They were really giving him a hard time, you know, why- showing off and all the rest of that stuff. Okay. So finally, one day, he just said to them, "You know, w- uh, let me tell you why, how I'm here and why I'm here. Maybe you'll stop w- giving me a hard time." And then he told the story about the Slonimer Rebbe told him to come here.

06:33 Speaker 2 This is all from Zaltzman?

06:35 Speaker 1 Z- some of the, some-- This part is in Zaltzman.

06:37 Speaker 2 Okay. Yeah.

06:38 Speaker 1 Okay. Aharon questions the, the, uh, the age and who it was that said, in details, but I mean, but it, it sounds somewhat right.

06:45 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

06:45 Speaker 1 And, uh, so he told them the story that the Slonimer Rebbe had told him to come here. Okay? And so that they should stop him, you know, that I'm here. Okay. Anyway, that's step one. And we have, uh, also a story that the Rebbe Rashab spoke to my zeide, and he t- told him he should learn Chassidus. So my zeide answered, "But it says over there, before you learn Kabbalah, you have to have a, your p- your s- stomach full of, uh, Shas and Poskim. You know, who am I, how am I, who am I to, to, to be learning this Kabbalah?" So the way, the tradition, way we heard, the Rebbe Rashab said, "Al-- af mein achrayus."

07:25 Speaker 2 Hmm.

07:25 Speaker 1 "On my responsibility, you should learn Chassidus." Now, just to jump ahead a little bit to, in this point, years, years later, our Rebbe told my zeide he should learn Zohar. And my zeide gave the same argument.

07:42 Speaker 2 Okay.

07:42 Speaker 1 You know, I mean, who am I? And you have to be, I should-- And my zeide didn't know Shas and Poskim.

07:47 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

07:47 Speaker 1 But to me, but he said, "You know, the Rebbe said if such Jews don't learn Zohar, who's gonna learn it?"

07:52 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

07:53 Speaker 1 And to that, to that, to make it even more interesting, I heard in, when my later, my zeide moved to Yerushalayim, we'll talk a little bit more about that maybe, and he, he had a, um, every Motzei Shabbos, the, the, uh, this, the, the Slonimer Chassidim would come to him in, from Malmalka, and every Friday night to, to before, Stoliner Chassidim, the older zeyde is, Stolin used to come to talk in learning, Friday nights. So, um, one, one day it was Shabbos Breishis. He opens the door, and there's all these Chassidic people at the door, and he says, "You know what today is? Today is Shabbos Breishis. There's a hundred pages of Midrash Rabba, a hundred pages of Zohar. I have no time for you people." Slam the door, "Come back next week." And this is what I heard in Yerushalayim, the story.

08:43 Speaker 2 Okay.

08:44 Speaker 1 So I guess he took it seriously, this, this Zohar thing.

08:47 Speaker 2 Right.

08:47 Speaker 1 And, uh, so he did it. Okay. So that's, that's my zeide. Now, it's at-- The first hashkafa protis is that he was there, the Slonimer Rebbe should tell him to go to Lubavitch. Not a common thing to happen. In fact, I don't know of anybody, if it happened to anybody else. Okay? Meanwhile, go fast-forward a bit. Um, he, he goes on to, to... How long he was there, I don't know. But anyway, it comes forward. He was, he's now, he's a Chassidishe g- uh, bocher, um, with all the Lubavitcher. And, and he's, because of this story with Lubavitch, I think that's why he was in the area, and he needs a job like everybody else. He was a, he was a, he's a goy. He knows he was a big lamdan and everything else, but he didn't know. So the story goes that the Chofetz Chaim came to Minsk for, it does, this is, this is known, for a certain number of years. So the story goes that my zeide went to the Chofetz Chaim to ask him if he could help him get him a job with his connections. And it so happens, hashkafa protis number two, there was a delegation from a small town near Minsk looking for a Rov, and they came to the Chofetz Chaim, and he says, "Yeah, there's a bocher, why don't you take him?"

10:07 Speaker 2 He's still a bocher?

10:08 Speaker 1 Yeah. Now, the odds, I, I'm just, I, when I picture this, I can't even imagine it. He's a bocher, okay? Chassidish, Chassidish Lubavitcher. This is a Litvishe town and never saw a Chassid in their lives.

10:22 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

10:22 Speaker 1 Okay? And it's a bocher. What are the odds of, of, of taking s- of suggesting th- something like this for a job?

10:30 Speaker 2 Yeah, true.

10:30 Speaker 1 The only way I understand it is why would, is that it was a ti- it's a very tiny city, which most, and, uh, and then who else are they gonna get? They're not gonna get a, you know, a major person. They might as well get a, a bocher. You know, like the L- like Sluchim do. You know, when you need something, you know something? Take a bocher.

10:46 Speaker 2 Right.

10:46 Speaker 1 And he was a big lamdan, and they were big lamdanim, so they went with it. So ends up he's there, and he ends up in, that he, uh, doing a shidduch there, Litvish.

10:56 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

10:57 Speaker 1 Um, he told, but he, I, I, this, the, the, my bubbe passed away in Russia when my father was 14, so obviously I never met her or anybody else. But, but the way the story is, he's now, again, my zeide ha- he's, he's a yaosom. He's on his own, no, no family, no one to give advice or anything else. He's looking, what do you, what does a bocher look or know about what he need in a shiv-- shidduch? Well, it says in the Chumash, Rivka gave water to the camels. Well, this girl liked to give milk to the cats. Okay. See, that, that's a, that's a sign that she has Chesed. She, she's a, she's a good, she's a good person. Uh, you should marry her.

11:36 Speaker 2 Okay.

11:37 Speaker 1 And she has brothers who will tell me "Hachom."

11:40 Speaker 2 Yeah, those are the things that matter.

11:41 Speaker 1 Yeah. So-

11:41 Speaker 2 Okay

11:42 Speaker 1 ... that's all, that's all he knows.

11:43 Speaker 2 That's all the criteria is.

11:43 Speaker 1 That's the criteria, so he marries her.

11:45 Speaker 2 Okay.

11:45 Speaker 1 I heard that, you know, she had, she, she had physical problems, this and that. He doesn't know from nothing, and there's no one to tell him, "No, don't do it." And there's no, and, and what's the options? They're out there and tell me, um, you know, tell me shidduchim interest in a, in a Chassidish bocher. So he marries her, and she has five children. And then she dies.

12:09 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

12:10 Speaker 1 And my Zayde was able to come to America in 1930, which was also not a, a simple thing to do in those days. Otherwise, I would be one of those Russian k- one of the Russian student who didn't have much of an education.

12:22 Speaker 2 Right.

12:22 Speaker 1 It so happens that he came, my father was still here. He was still, uh, was 14. Um, so by the time my father g- got married, we had a, we, the, the yeshiva's here. Right? And not only-

12:33 Speaker 2 So your, your father grew up, his formative years-

12:36 Speaker 1 In Russia

12:36 Speaker 2 ... in Russia.

12:37 Speaker 1 Right.

12:38 Speaker 2 He went-

12:38 Speaker 1 And not only that, it okay. Now that you say that, that's also Hashgacha Protis, how it comes to this, to Lubavitch. My Zayde was not, was-- My, my bubbe was Litvish. My father grew up in that to- in that town, that Litvishe town. And, and that, and that was. W- when it came to a point around bar mitzvah age, approximately, there was a, there was a local cheder, and my father d- was not happy there. He didn't feel comfort-- He didn't like it. The story goes, he ran away from home. "I wanna find a place where I can learn Torah." So my Zayde pulled him back and said, "Look, come back home. I'll find you a place after your bar mitzvah." Okay? So he did. So but we, we didn't find a place in Russia.

13:22 Speaker 2 Not many options.

13:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, whatever. So, uh, this is another, uh, a, a third tremendous Hashgacha Protis. Anybody who hears this is blown away from it. There was a newspaper article written in Russia. Somebody went trying to find which newspaper was it, probably. Okay. I, I don't know. They didn't tell me. I know what they told me that was told. And the article was written, "There's a black cloud over Russia, that there's still a town, it's called Navel, that there are Jews with beards and mikveh water coming out of their beards. How do we allow something like this in our country now?" This was the article.

13:58 Speaker 2 This is already during communism?

14:00 Speaker 1 Yeah.

14:00 Speaker 2 Yeah.

14:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. So this is in 19, um, 20 something.

14:07 Speaker 2 Yeah.

14:07 Speaker 1 So, so, so the Rav say, "Oh, there's a yeshiva."

14:13 Speaker 2 Advertise it.

14:13 Speaker 1 Advertise it. So, and now, now I can put another little thing to it. Interesting. When Mendel Futerfas came to America, because of my connection with David Raskin, I had a chance to be able to talk to him. I asked him, um, "Do you know anything about the town where my, where my Zayde was the Rav?"

14:31 Speaker 2 What is the name of this town? Do you know?

14:32 Speaker 1 Yeah. It's Horodok.

14:33 Speaker 2 Oh.

14:34 Speaker 1 Now, it's not the Horodok that everybody heard of. That Horodok is near Vitebsk. This is Horodok in Minsk.

14:40 Speaker 2 Okay.

14:41 Speaker 1 Minsk is in, in B- B- Belarus. The capital of Belarus. Okay? Different... A- I was told that, uh, Horodok means small town, and every big town had a Hal- small town.

14:51 Speaker 2 There's a few towns that-

14:52 Speaker 1 Yeah

14:52 Speaker 2 ... end with Horodok.

14:53 Speaker 1 Yeah.

14:53 Speaker 2 Yeah. Okay.

14:54 Speaker 1 Well, this is what I was told. Anyway, but this is, this one, the one no one ever heard of. And, um, so that So, okay-

15:06 Speaker 2 Tamela Mendel.

15:07 Speaker 1 Huh? Yeah. So I'll... Thanks. I do that sometimes. So okay. So, uh, I asked Mendel if he ever heard of this. The first time he wouldn't talk to me because he wouldn't talk to anybody. Everybody, stranger is, is, you know, is, is secret police. But after a year or two, when he got to know me, I got the nerve up to ask him again. So he tells me, "I'll tell you, I'll tell you. I don't come from that part of Russia. I was never there. I have only one story about that town. When I was in Navel, one day a Rav came in with a, a four... with a young kid in, in short pants, and he says, 'I want to see the yeshiva.'" And he g- and he says, uh, and they were all shocked. I mean, how, you know, "How do you know about us?" You know, it, it was a, in Navel it was everything was underground. It was a secret. So he said, "I read about you in the paper." So they went, "What?" And he told, and the whole, this whole story. So then the Rav says to them, he says, "Look, um, okay, I see you're here. What's your seder limudim? I'm not gonna s- leave my, my son here. I wanna know what seder there is." So they told him, "We learn Chassidis." So this is the way Mendel tells the story. He says, "Yeah? What is that?" So they brought him a Kuntres Torah. He sat down

16:21 Speaker 1 for half an hour and re- and was re- learning it. Came back, "Yeah, acceptable," and left it, and, "You, I'll leave my son here."

16:28 Speaker 2 How does this fit with the fact that he already learned Lubavitch or knew about Chassidishe?

16:31 Speaker 1 Okay, one sec. That's, I know. It's a question. I told him every, I told Mendel this. Every story has some strangest things. That's not true. That doesn't make sense. I know that. But, uh, I, I, and I pointed it out. So I told Mendel, you know, "It, it's interesting you're telling a story about my Zayde and my father."

16:46 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

16:47 Speaker 1 You know, that he, he didn't, he, he had no connection. He was just telling a story.

16:50 Speaker 2 Right.

16:51 Speaker 1 So that's interesting.

16:51 Speaker 2 He didn't know that your-

16:52 Speaker 1 Right

16:52 Speaker 2 ... grandfather was the Rav of this-

16:53 Speaker 1 Right

16:54 Speaker 2 ... this town.

16:54 Speaker 1 Right.

16:55 Speaker 2 And that he brought your father.

16:56 Speaker 1 Right. So that was-

16:56 Speaker 2 So your father ended up-

16:58 Speaker 1 In Navel for a year or two

16:59 Speaker 2 ... in Navel.

17:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. And he tells, and my, and my father tells the story that he was there when the Friediker Rebbe was leaving Russia. And, and the Rebbe told Chacham Fagin that, you know, all, everybody wanted to see him before he left. So but that would be very dangerous if all the bochurim came to, to, to, uh, to Landgraaf.

17:21 Speaker 2 So at this time, was your grandfather considering himself a Lubavitcher or-

17:24 Speaker 1 Not my grandfather, my father.

17:25 Speaker 2 Oh, your fa- so your father went to Friediker.

17:27 Speaker 1 My father was in yeshiva.

17:27 Speaker 2 Got it. Okay. Yeah.

17:29 Speaker 1 Um, so he'd want, so the, so but the word got out. You know, so, so he told only the elder bochurim can come. But my father was one of the younger bochurim, and he and, and, uh, some of his classmates, uh, Meir Ritkin, Pinson, just that whole class of, uh, 1912. They were born in 1912. Um, I found out some of the other common, uh, Hershel Patru, uh, Hershel Suskin. That whole, that, that was all one class, and they, they heard, "What do you mean that we're not... What do you mean we're not, we can't go to see the Rebbe? We'll never, who knows if we'll ever see him again or ever see him ever." Okay? So they went to the Mashpia, Nisn Nemanov.

18:08 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

18:09 Speaker 1 Who was still a bocher. Okay, I'm giving you a bit of a background. And they started saying, "What do you mean? We gotta go, we gotta go." And Reuven said, "I can't, I can't give you." The Rebbe said, "No." The Rebbe said, "Only the elder bochurim." So they really, you know, got on his case. You know how bochurim can do that. And finally, he didn't say no with the same enthus- same no, so they were on the n- they were on the next train.

18:30 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

18:31 Speaker 1 They come to Leningrad, and there was no arrangements made for them 'cause they weren't supposed to be there.

18:36 Speaker 2 This is in

18:36 Speaker 1 This was be- uh, this could have... Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

18:41 Speaker 2 It was Yamte, yeah.

18:42 Speaker 1 Yeah. 'Cause I know that, that my father was in Simchat Torah. That was a, that was a different year. Okay, it was a different year. Um, so so they, they came, and they had no place to stay. So somebody told them they should go to the Rebbe's mother, okay? Rebbe-

19:04 Speaker 2 That was Chenitsa.

19:06 Speaker 1 No. Sarifka. Sarifka? Rashab's wife.

19:10 Speaker 2 Chenitsa.

19:11 Speaker 1 Chenitsa. Okay. Uh-

19:13 Speaker 2 Sarifka's the Menachem's wife.

19:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, okay. So, um, so they, they came to her, and she says, "Ah, Nissans arbit." You know? That, that is, he, he's responsible for this in certain places.

19:26 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

19:26 Speaker 1 So that's, uh, that is a, a story also.

19:28 Speaker 2 So he's... That was the only time he saw the Friediker Rebbe then?

19:31 Speaker 1 Okay, so that is an also interesting thing. I assume that my father saw him. Meir Itkin told his family he never saw the Friediker Rebbe. Now, if they were there together, why would he, why would he have s- not seen the Rebbe? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that question.

19:48 Speaker 2 But you never heard from him?

19:50 Speaker 1 I, I didn't hear from him. I heard from his children.

19:51 Speaker 2 From your father, you heard.

19:52 Speaker 1 My father told me that he was there. I never asked that detail, "Did you actually see the Rebbe, or did they kept you outside?"

19:59 Speaker 2 Mm.

19:59 Speaker 1 I don't know.

20:00 Speaker 2 Okay.

20:00 Speaker 1 I assume that he did. Okay?

20:02 Speaker 2 But beforehand, you never, you didn't see him beforehand?

20:04 Speaker 1 No.

20:04 Speaker 2 Yeah, okay.

20:06 Speaker 1 So, uh, just saying, so that's that point. Um, so, and also Hashkaha Pratis, that the newspaper got me to Lubavitch, and my s- and my father.

20:16 Speaker 2 Yeah.

20:16 Speaker 1 It's, and that, that's also not a common ex- experience.

20:20 Speaker 2 No, no.

20:20 Speaker 1 Okay? Now it goes further. Um, later, my, my zeide, my mo- grandmother, my bubbe passed away, and my zeide w- had five kids, and he was able to get papers in 1930 to come to America. But be- before that ref- that year before was, um, the Friediker Rebbe came to, to America in '29.

20:45 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. To visit?

20:47 Speaker 1 To visit. And so this is written up again, this was a whole discussion. It was written up in the, uh, Yumanov the fr- about the Alter the, the Re- of when the Friedi- the Tishrei, when the Rebbe was here, what it meant over there.

21:02 Speaker 2 Right.

21:02 Speaker 1 So he describes the, uh-

21:03 Speaker 2 The Chaim Altes.

21:04 Speaker 1 The Al- yeah. So he writes there, you know, there was Rosh Hashanah, and there was the Hadassah Rov and his sons attended the Minyan. So then there was a whole discussion, who was the Hadassah Rov? No one ever heard of him.

21:16 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

21:16 Speaker 1 Okay? So someone said there was a, there was a Schmerling, but there was a Schmerling never left Russia, so they didn't, they didn't couldn't have been.

21:23 Speaker 2 You're talking about in, in-

21:25 Speaker 1 In 1920

21:26 Speaker 2 ... in Riga, in Riga.

21:27 Speaker 1 Yeah.

21:28 Speaker 2 Okay.

21:29 Speaker 1 So, um so but then they, we figured out that it was, it was, it was my zeide and my, and, and I called my aunt, and she says, "Sure. Papa went with the two boys, the Rebbe."

21:41 Speaker 2 But the Rebbe wasn't there?

21:43 Speaker 1 No. Yeah, but he went to that Minyan.

21:45 Speaker 2 But they l- they were in Riga on the way out of Russia?

21:47 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

21:48 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

21:48 Speaker 1 They were there.

21:48 Speaker 2 Okay.

21:49 Speaker 1 So, uh-

21:50 Speaker 2 So your father was there when the Rebbe-

21:52 Speaker 1 Wasn't there.

21:53 Speaker 2 But our Rebbe was there.

21:55 Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

21:55 Speaker 2 Okay.

21:55 Speaker 1 Then our Rebbe was there. And then she told me another story that Simchat Torah, the Rebbe said all the Tzimmes should say l'chaim.

22:02 Speaker 2 Who told you? Your father told you this?

22:04 Speaker 1 My father told, that my father told me.

22:05 Speaker 2 Okay.

22:05 Speaker 1 That the Rebbe told the-

22:06 Speaker 2 Our Rebbe?

22:07 Speaker 1 Our Rebbe told them, everybody should say l- all the Tzimmes to say l'chaim. So my father said, "I'm a kid." I mean, he was 14-year-old kid. I mean, I'm a talmid. So the Rebbe called him, said over to him, "You learned in Nevel, you should say l'chaim."

22:19 Speaker 2 Ah.

22:19 Speaker 1 So that was the first connection with the Rebbe.

22:22 Speaker 2 Wow.

22:23 Speaker 1 Okay?

22:24 Speaker 2 That's amazing.

22:25 Speaker 1 So this is again, my father, this, my, my father told me this. Okay, so now-

22:29 Speaker 2 That whole Tishrei was out of or- out of ordinary, that the Rebbe revealed himself and, because it was on, uh, according to the Halacha, the Friediker Rebbe, so while he's not there, the Rebbe should lead-

22:40 Speaker 1 Yeah

22:40 Speaker 2 ... the Siddur. And there's actually a new- a newspaper article that just came out recently now, like a year ago or two, about that Tishrei describing the fablings that the Rebbe led, so that was very unique. It's interesting that your father was there punk then when the Rebbe was, you know, in his galus.

22:54 Speaker 1 Yeah. So again

22:57 Speaker 2 It's part of that Hashkaha Pratis.

22:58 Speaker 1 Yeah. It keeps on, it keeps getting going.

23:00 Speaker 2 Yeah.

23:00 Speaker 1 Keeps going. So now, um, my father comes to America to, with my zeide. Um, my na- my zeide needs a job. You know, I mean, what's he gonna do? He has, he has five kids to support.

23:14 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

23:14 Speaker 1 He ends up remarrying here, but he becomes a r- my zeide became a rav in Utica, New York.

23:20 Speaker 2 Upstate?

23:21 Speaker 1 Upstate.

23:22 Speaker 2 Okay.

23:22 Speaker 1 Now, the, the mentality there, he didn't speak English. They didn't want anybody to speak English. I remember in Boston, there was a shul where I davened, that there was like a couple old-timers, and they fought the whole idea of them trying to hire a, a, a rabbi who would speak English to the people. "No, in Yiddish we got, we have to keep it Yiddish only."

23:45 Speaker 2 Mm.

23:45 Speaker 1 "Ah, nobody understands? Irrelevant."

23:47 Speaker 2 Mm.

23:47 Speaker 1 The whole idea, and that's, that's how the Rebbe ex- explains the, uh, the Mishnah in Avos, where it says that, you know, it says that they wouldn't go anyplace unless it's a Makom Torah.

23:56 Speaker 2 You need

23:57 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

23:57 Speaker 2 ... Makom Torah.

23:57 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, what, what, you know, what's the whole shlichus all about?

24:00 Speaker 2 Right.

24:01 Speaker 1 So what I was trying to say, if he's gonna be doing something, it's something else. That was the mentality here. "I want, we want a rav who's a big Talmid Chaham," and there were big Chachamim in America, and they were writing tshuvahs together with the g- wi- with in Vilna, with the Vilna, all the Goanim, and there was foreign who were printed, Rav Shaul's tshuvahs of G- of Goanim who were America. Just 'cause they came here doesn't mean they forgot what they learned.

24:24 Speaker 2 Right.

24:25 Speaker 1 And but that was the mentality. So they wanted a rav, a b- you know, a Talmid Chaham who could really be a Talmid Chaham, but doesn't relate to anybody, and we lost that whole generation.

24:34 Speaker 2 Right.

24:35 Speaker 1 They, uh, and then that whole generation was gone. But, you know, so th- my zeide was there, and he was miserable. Okay? So one time he told me that they told him, say they, he asked, you know, he needed parnasah. He has to support his family. They said, "Well, may- we have a par- a possible, um, hashgacha." "Oh, that sounds good." So they brought him to the bottling plant for oil. He said, "Bottling plant? I wanna see how they do it." "You want the job or don't you want the job?"

25:03 Speaker 2 Mm.

25:03 Speaker 1 He said, "Oh, that's how it works in America. Okay. I'm n-" So he committed, "I'm never gonna do hashgacha unless I know the balebos is a shomer Shabbos." And therefore, with, with Gannelas li- wine that they gave at the fabregen had his Hashgacha together with Rabbi Simpson.

25:17 Speaker 2 So he had a Hashgacha?

25:18 Speaker 1 He had a Hashgacha on that because he knew Ganeles was in Lubavitch.

25:21 Speaker 2 'Cause he was in Lubavitch?

25:23 Speaker 1 Was in Lubavitch.

25:23 Speaker 2 Oh, was in Lubavitch. Uh-huh.

25:24 Speaker 1 So, like, you know, otherwise they can always fool me.

25:28 Speaker 2 So this is late. He, he, he's living in New York City later.

25:30 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

25:31 Speaker 2 Okay.

25:31 Speaker 1 So, uh-

25:32 Speaker 2 So he left, he left Utica and came-

25:33 Speaker 1 He left Utica

25:34 Speaker 2 ... and came to Brooklyn?

25:34 Speaker 1 And now to ha- that's, that's a story, too. Okay? And this is all nuts and humor stories. It seems that Rabbi Jacobson had a plan.

25:44 Speaker 2 When?

25:45 Speaker 1 Uh, this was in the 1939, 1940.

25:48 Speaker 2 Before the Friediker Rebbe-

25:49 Speaker 1 Before the Friediker Rebbe came, I think. I think it was around, yeah, yeah, I think so. And there was a yeshiva in, it's still there, a yeshiva in Borough Park called the Terras Emes Kamenetz that was about to close. They had no money. So he had a plan that, uh, to take it over as Lubavitch Yeshiva. Rabbi Rifkin would be the Rosh Yeshiva from, from Tzer Vedas. And he brought, and he brought my Zayde here to give, to be one of the, the teachers from Utica.

26:16 Speaker 2 From Utica.

26:18 Speaker 1 From Utica. And then, and then after, the whole thing fell through. It didn't happen. But my Zayde was here.

26:23 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

26:24 Speaker 1 So exactly what my Zayde did in that time, I don't know. But for me, he didn't have that job, he didn't have this job.

26:29 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

26:29 Speaker 1 So when the Friediker Rebbe came in 1940, it ta- it passed, it, it, it saved him. He t- he got a job teaching in Be- in Beth Rivkah Din.

26:37 Speaker 2 Hasidic Rebbe opened up yeshiva-

26:38 Speaker 1 Yeah

26:38 Speaker 2 ... and then he worked in that yeshiva.

26:39 Speaker 1 Yeah, in that yeshiva.

26:40 Speaker 2 So he taught in Beth Rivkah Din.

26:41 Speaker 1 Yeah, for, for, from around 1940 until 1955.

26:45 Speaker 2 For who did he teach? Who did he teach?

26:47 Speaker 1 14-year-old kids.

26:48 Speaker 2 Kids? Four- like, mesivta high school.

26:50 Speaker 1 Yeah. Which was a disaster. He, he, he wanted, you know, he probably gave a shir im tzotz.

26:57 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

26:58 Speaker 1 Okay? He, he, he should have been in be- in seven, in the, in the, in the, and he sa- he, he gave some shir in 770. But it, it, hell, it, it, it was a disaster until he couldn't handle it anymore, from the, the ki- the kids, you know, fooling around, and, and spitballs and all the rest of that. He just couldn't, finally he retired.

27:16 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

27:16 Speaker 1 He couldn't handle it anymore. But, um-

27:18 Speaker 2 But he did this for years.

27:20 Speaker 1 He did this for about 15 years.

27:21 Speaker 2 Wow.

27:22 Speaker 1 And a lot of the people, um, who got Smicha, he, he, he had the Smicha.

27:25 Speaker 2 In 770.

27:26 Speaker 1 In 770, and he signed on the Smicha together with Rabbi Jacobson.

27:29 Speaker 2 So they have Smicha-

27:30 Speaker 1 Yeah, so lots of the guys have Smicha f- with his signature on it

27:32 Speaker 2 ... in the Yuds and the Chafs-

27:33 Speaker 1 Yeah

27:34 Speaker 2 ... have his signature.

27:34 Speaker 1 Herschel, uh, and we got, we got a copy of, um, Herschel Chidrich Smicha with my Zayde.

27:39 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

27:40 Speaker 1 And there were other people from that g- generation that got his, that has, have a Smicha. So that, that's all, that's who he was. And, uh, so he, now, now he's finally in, in Br- in Brooklyn, and then he told me a story that Friediker Rebbe called him one day and said to him, uh, "You, you should buy a, you should buy a house." So my Zayde says, "Okay." You know, he went back to sitting and learning. "Yeah, yeah. Okay." A few hours-

28:08 Speaker 2 Was he officially a Lubavitcher, or like, whatever. He's-

28:10 Speaker 1 I mean, he, he, he, he once spoke to the Rebbe about that, and he says, you know, "After 120 years, I'll have Kaf HaKela. They'll throw me from Lubavitch and Slonim, and Slonim and Lubavitch." So Rebbe laughed, and he said, "In his, our Smada, he doesn't have to worry about Kaf HaKela." That was a good line. Okay? That was that line. He had another thing that says that, "You have smoke in Baruj, there for, for, there's room, room in the heaven for two pairs of tefillin."

28:36 Speaker 2 Who said this?

28:36 Speaker 1 Uh, uh, this, uh, this is a vort I mean I heard.

28:39 Speaker 2 Yeah.

28:39 Speaker 1 And, uh, so he said, Lubavitch and Slonim, you can, there's room in the heaven for both.

28:43 Speaker 2 Yeah, so he's a, he's a unique character.

28:45 Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

28:45 Speaker 2 Okay.

28:46 Speaker 1 Now, in Slonim, they say that he came to Lubavitch in America because he had nothing else. Slonim was destroyed in, during the war. Okay? And that's his, their, their version. So what, what he, but as soon as he came back to Eretz Yisrael, he came running back to Slonim because he was in America during the war. So he still had stories, he still had, uh, Minchagim, he had all kind of things that they no- that they had, they had lost. So he came over and he, he was Mechayalim.

29:14 Speaker 2 When he w- lived in Eretz Yisrael.

29:15 Speaker 1 Yeah.

29:16 Speaker 2 Okay, so Friediker Rebbe told him to buy a house.

29:18 Speaker 1 So he, uh, so a few hours later, the Rebbe calls him in. He said, "Nu, did you buy a house?" So he said, "Okay, I guess he's serious." So he went and bought a house. He bought a house on East 91st in Winthrop.

29:30 Speaker 2 Where is that?

29:31 Speaker 1 That's East Flatbush.

29:32 Speaker 2 Okay.

29:33 Speaker 1 Now there's about 20 Lubavitcher families on that block. But in 1960, everyone was gone. So he's al- he was barely, luckily able to sell that house for something to set up in-

29:43 Speaker 2 So he bought the house when the whole neighborhood had already turned?

29:46 Speaker 1 No, no. He bought it then.

29:48 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

29:49 Speaker 1 You know, when the Rebbe told him. He lived there like that.

29:51 Speaker 2 Oh, like in the '40s.

29:52 Speaker 1 Yeah. So he d- he was able to, he lived there for 20 years.

29:55 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

29:57 Speaker 1 And then he sold it, and it was then, and that was helped set him up in Eretz Yisrael.

30:01 Speaker 2 Right.

30:02 Speaker 1 In Eretz Yisrael, he lived like in a, in a, in a, in a h- in a building. One room, w- and a, and a, a kitchen, a bathroom, and a bedroom. That's a comb- combination. Um, his, but my bubbe had passed away already. There was somebody who would come every day, put in s- some food in the refrigerator, and that would be his what he need out of the day, and he could sit and learn and do whatever he wanted to do.

30:22 Speaker 2 And I saw letters that from the Rebbe to him at that time.

30:25 Speaker 1 Yeah.

30:26 Speaker 2 The Rebbe wants to know why he's not writing more often. Rebbe said, "I'm, I'm, uh, it's, it's worrying me a little bit, the fact I don't hear from you."

30:33 Speaker 1 Yeah.

30:33 Speaker 2 That's what he wrote to him.

30:34 Speaker 1 Yeah. They were very close. And you have a picture in the, in the, what's the name? In Yisrael, you know, of the Chossid-

30:39 Speaker 2 Chassidishe Yisrael

30:40 Speaker 1 ... Chassidishe Yisrael. The Rebbe sitting together with him was, what a big smile. There's another story goes with that, which Leibel Gromer told, but I heard it with the punchline. Okay? Leibel told the story. There was a once, I believe it was a son of Rebbe, and before the Siyum, and the Rebbe said that he give, asked some of the elder Chassidim to sit, let's, let's make a Fabringen in the Sukkah together. And, um- And the, the Rebbe turned to my zeide and said, "You know what? When I say a Maamer Chazal, you g- you'll give the mar- you'll tell them where it says."

31:13 Speaker 2 The Maamer Mokom.

31:14 Speaker 1 Maamer Mokom. So the Rebbe starts talking. He says Maamer Chazal, looks at my zeide, my zeide's quiet. One, two, three, quiet. So then Rebbe continued with- without looking at the zeide. So that's what Leibel tells the story. My zeide told me the story too, but he told me with a punchline. My zeide said like this, "I made a cheshbon. If I know, it's yeshus. If I don't know, it's bushus." Embarrassment. "I can only lose from a deal like that. Why would I agree?"

31:43 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

31:44 Speaker 1 Okay? It was, the Rebbe wasn't the Rebbe. I mean, uh, they were friends. And my zeide was older. The other story goes, when it's probably in Tosh U'Newid, right afterwards, that the Rebbe was coming out of 770. Maybe it was Yud Aleph, starting Vayikra, whatever. The Rebbe was up a whole night, and leaving in the morning. My zeide was coming in the morning to teach, and he sees the Rebbe going out. So Rebbe- my zeide stands at attention. So Rebbe gives a big smile, and says, "You too, Rabbi Castel?" You know, suddenly getting formal. So my zeide told me, this, this is what I heard from him, my zeide. Said, "I, I, I saw a smile on his face, and tears in his eyes, and I knew this is not my type of person who can do the, like it says in Tanya, you can try- cry and laugh at the same time. Just a different level of person."

32:30 Speaker 2 See, that's how he knew that the Rebbe-

32:32 Speaker 1 That's, you know, that's what he told me. He said-

32:33 Speaker 2 Rebbe's level

32:33 Speaker 1 ... "This is nisht mein gleichen. It's not somebody like me. It's a different type of person."

32:37 Speaker 2 Nisht mein gleichen.

32:37 Speaker 1 Yeah.

32:38 Speaker 2 Not equal to me.

32:38 Speaker 1 Yeah.

32:39 Speaker 2 That, that's it. Not equal to me.

32:41 Speaker 1 So this, this is the thing, this is what, you know, things that my zeide told me.

32:44 Speaker 2 Wow.

32:46 Speaker 1 And they were very close, the Rebbe. When my zeide retired, I heard the Rebbe was very upset, but my zeide just couldn't handle it anymore.

32:54 Speaker 2 Right.

32:54 Speaker 1 And he moved, moved to Eretz Yisrael. And this is an also, to just give you an idea of who my zeide was. My zeide moved to Eretz Yisrael. You say, "Why did he move to Eretz Yisrael?" "I didn't wanna die in Chutz La'aretz. I'll go to Eretz Yisrael to die. Why should they schlep me afterwards? I'll go now." So he went now, and now this is another story he told me. He re- he, he went, he found an apartment, and he signed a lease for one month. "Why? I'm coming to die. Why should I waste money?" Okay? So for 20 years, he had to renew his lease every month.

33:24 Speaker 2 Month to month.

33:25 Speaker 1 Yeah. That was, that was his, it was, it was a different, a different

33:30 Speaker 2 I think in one of the letters, I saw that the Rebbe was writing to him about maybe learning Chassidus, or mashpia others to learn Chassidus in Eretz Yisrael. I think that came in somewhere.

33:39 Speaker 1 Yeah, especially that it's, that, that it's the, um, the k- the throne of the king, Eretz Yisrael.

33:45 Speaker 2 Palta shel C'world.

33:45 Speaker 1 Yeah. So if it certainly, if we learn here, we certainly should learn there.

33:49 Speaker 2 Right.

33:50 Speaker 1 And m- my zeide, the way I was told, again, that my zeide once felt an achrayus. You know, there were a lot of Litvishe who were very, you know, anti the Re- the, the Rebbe. And my zeide felt an achrayus responsibility to show, to dis- uh, to argue with them.

34:05 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

34:05 Speaker 1 And to explain what the Rebbe was. And there is a tape, somewhere in the house, of a discussion he had with Rav Arle. Rav Arle is, he has his own Hasidim, and he was talking about the Rebbe.

34:19 Speaker 2 Rav Arle the Telz chassan.

34:22 Speaker 1 Huh?

34:22 Speaker 2 Telz chassan.

34:22 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

34:23 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

34:23 Speaker 1 In Yerushalayim. So they have, they needed a interpreter, because my zeide spoke very Litvish, and he, they spoke Ungarish. They both spoke Yiddish, but they didn't, wouldn't know, and plus my zeide didn't hear well.

34:34 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

34:34 Speaker 1 So, uh, so they had an interpreter. But the story goes that he, the Rebbe that he was talking about the Rebbe, is how the Rebbe used to, uh, cry so much at the, the Maftir my zeide was telling him, and all the rest of that, you know, to gi- giving them a little bit of feeling about who, who the Rebbe was.

34:51 Speaker 2 There's a tape of this?

34:52 Speaker 1 Yeah.

34:52 Speaker 2 Oh, wow.

34:54 Speaker 1 I have it someplace in the house.

34:55 Speaker 2 You should find it.

34:56 Speaker 1 Yeah.

34:56 Speaker 2 Yeah.

34:56 Speaker 1 And you can barely hear it. And especially, you know, they, they couldn't hear Rav Ar- Rav Ar- whatever, but you hear, you hear a little bit of what is going on.

35:04 Speaker 2 Hmm.

35:05 Speaker 1 But that's what Rav Arle was telling him about, you know, that the Rebbe, who the Rebbe is.

35:08 Speaker 2 Interesting. And he passed away in Eretz Yisrael time.

35:11 Speaker 1 He passed away in Eretz Yisrael, and in, in '82.

35:17 Speaker 2 Oh, wow. So it was-

35:18 Speaker 1 He lived, he got, went there '62. He lived in it 20 years there.

35:21 Speaker 2 Wow, okay.

35:23 Speaker 1 Um-

35:23 Speaker 2 So what about your father?

35:25 Speaker 1 Okay. So now, my father, um, that's, the story is here too, okay? My father is, was, is here in, in, in America. He went Yeshiva University to, for Mulika- Ilmu Mulika Rishon L'chol. Didn't get a degree, but he, but he was, you know, that, that was where he went. Either that or Torah Dallas.

35:44 Speaker 2 There was no, the, the Novominsky didn't exist yet.

35:46 Speaker 1 Right.

35:46 Speaker 2 Yeah, at that time.

35:47 Speaker 1 Okay. And he goes, uh, got his then. And then, it's ti- now that was another next hashkafa for this major. There was, uh, okay, let's do my other zeide.

35:59 Speaker 2 Your other zeide?

35:59 Speaker 1 My other zeide-

36:00 Speaker 2 Your mother's father

36:01 Speaker 1 ... my mother's father, Dovid Potashnik, was a rav in a shechitah in Baltimore. Um, he came from a little Balboa shtetl. We don't know where he learned. But there was, you know, those shtetl near Minsk, you know, all these little shtetl, Bobruisk, and all these type of towns, um, where he came from. And Nusach HaShtetlach. And in Baltimore, he was a rav in, in a, uh, and there were like five Nusach HaRishon downtown Baltimore. Now one of them is a museum. I think that was with my zeide shul. And, and uh, and, and they were all Nusach HaAri. And when the Friediker Rebbe came the f- the first time, uh, my zeide was on the committee of, the welcoming committee for the Friediker Rebbe to come to Baltimore. And the story goes, uh, my mother said she remembered clearly the sto- how the f- the thousands of people, 'cause they were, every- everybody were Russians, and they were all came from the shtetl. They weren't frum necessarily, but this is the chief rabbi. This is their rabbi.

37:08 Speaker 2 Yeah, we recently had an article in Terher about this, uh, visit And it describes what you're saying, like then-

37:15 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

37:15 Speaker 2 ... so many people, American Jews, this is, yeah, this is, this is who they are.

37:18 Speaker 1 Right.

37:19 Speaker 2 That's their link.

37:19 Speaker 1 And the, and the, and the rabbi was standing on a platform out- on a hotel, at the hotel, like on a porch, with... And, and the whole place is full. This is my mother describing it. And, uh, and the Rebbe was, you know, the Rebbe was still gesund, and the Rebbe was talking to them, to, to the crowd. And the story goes that a- after a couple days, he's about to leave. He went to Philadelphia, he went to other places. So my Zayde was very upset. He went to Rishag, who was the Rav Garary, and says to him, "I don't understand. The Rebbe came here to make money. You had a, you had the crowd. Ask for... The Rebbe should ask them for money." I s- uh, Rabbis don't do that, okay? So now he's leaving without anything. So how... You know, look, I- I'm embarrassed. He came to, to our town, and he's gonna leave, uh, without any money? What's, what's going on? So he went to Rishag and asked him, "Could you tell the Rebbe to please stay another day or two and give us a chance to raise some money?" So that was unheard of, the Rebbe should stay. But supposedly he did.

38:20 Speaker 2 Hmm.

38:21 Speaker 1 And, uh, and Zayde said it was a lot harder the second time. The first time was the first... They didn't, they had never seen the Rebbe, and he's not asking for money. And now, you know, people just saw him a few days ago, and why should I come back and, uh, and pay?

38:34 Speaker 2 Yeah.

38:34 Speaker 1 But he said we were able to, and we raised some money. You know what happened to that money?

38:39 Speaker 2 What happened?

38:41 Speaker 1 It was 1929.

38:42 Speaker 2 The crash.

38:42 Speaker 1 The crash. They inve- they invested it and lost it. This is the story that I always heard.

38:47 Speaker 2 They... I never heard that they invested it, but in general the-

38:50 Speaker 1 Yeah, people came to him and adv- advised him to put, you know, put the money in.

38:53 Speaker 2 Oh, but no, but in general that time, the, the time that the Friediker Rebbe came, and one of the reasons was to raise money for-

39:00 Speaker 1 Russian Rebbe, right

39:00 Speaker 2 ... Jews in Russia, but then the crash happened right then.

39:02 Speaker 1 Yeah, because he... And, and so how did that affect him? Because he was advised to put the money in and, and make, and make some money while it's here.

39:09 Speaker 2 I never heard that. Okay.

39:10 Speaker 1 That's what I heard, and then they lost it.

39:12 Speaker 2 Interesting.

39:12 Speaker 1 That's what I heard.

39:13 Speaker 2 I know the people lost their money. Yeah, that's, those are problems.

39:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. But I heard, you know, that money also went.

39:16 Speaker 2 Interesting. Okay.

39:18 Speaker 1 Again, maybe somebody can correct me, but this is always how I heard it. Okay. So now, so what's happening? So my Zayde now arrived in, in Baltimore, and he has his own kids, right? And he needs shidduchim. So his oldest daughter married somebody there, and my Zayde was not happy. It wasn't Lubavitch, it wasn't, it wasn't up to his standard. So he's very concerned. Now, the Rav in Baltimore was our Rabbinery Axelrod, who had been a Lubavitch. And you have story, a lot of sikhos about him, what the Friediker Rebbe said about him, and everything like this. Stories. But I'm, um, they, they're for another story. Somewhere else you get those stories. Okay. So anyway, he's visiting New York. He's visiting his friend Rabbi Jacobson. And they're sitting and talking, so one of the things he says, "You know what? I have a young lady in my community who needs a shidduch. Any ideas?" So Rabbi Jacobson said, "Well, we have a, a, a bocher here in the C- community, um, Castel. We know, I know we're very close with, with, with the father." And they w- they suggested it, and it was a long shot also. My mother grew up, it was, my mother was born in Richmond, Virginia. My mother grew up in Baltimore. You know, taking this greener, you know, this immigrant kid, even though he came here, he was 14, he spoke English, but it was of a different mentality.

40:37 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

40:38 Speaker 1 You know, a kid grew up in Russia, and now, you know, grow up in here in Baltimore and whatever. But the way I, the way my version of it is, my Zayde said to my mother, my mother was very g- g... "I don't, I didn't, I don't like the guy who my other daughter married. You're gonna marry him." Yetta. That was the mentality. The, the father said yes, so he did it, and it happened.

41:01 Speaker 2 Yeah.

41:01 Speaker 1 So that's how that happened. The, the, the, they came. We have the letter, a letter that, which is, uh, interesting, on Rabbi Jacobson's stationery, signed by Axelrod, a letter to my Zayde saying, "We, I've heard about this and this bocher. We're hearing good things about him. And could be that he's, uh, he's teaching right now in, uh, in, in White Plains, New York, in a Talmud Torah. And the, uh, and that the, um, maybe it's a good idea. And he has off, you know, next week or Thanksgiving, whatever, he's o- not teaching, so he can come to Baltimore to meet your daughter." And that's how it happened.

41:38 Speaker 2 So they got married.

41:39 Speaker 1 They got married.

41:40 Speaker 2 So when is this? This is-

41:42 Speaker 1 This was in 1938, approximately '39.

41:45 Speaker 2 Okay. So this is an interesting period between the Friediker Rebbe's not there, there's a-

41:49 Speaker 1 Right. He's not here yet. Then I hear- what I heard when the Rebbe came-

41:52 Speaker 2 So wait, your father, so, uh, your father, your father's considering himself a, a Lubavitcher at that-

41:59 Speaker 1 My father learned in Nevel.

42:00 Speaker 2 Yes. He's a, he's a, he's a Hasid.

42:02 Speaker 1 Yeah.

42:02 Speaker 2 He's a Lubavitcher.

42:02 Speaker 1 Yeah.

42:03 Speaker 2 Okay.

42:04 Speaker 1 And my mother's also Lubavitcher.

42:05 Speaker 2 Okay.

42:05 Speaker 1 Her whole family is Lubavitch.

42:07 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

42:07 Speaker 1 And my, and my, my, my, m- my, m- her, her mother was, uh, my, so my, my, her father, we don't know where, where he learned. He came from the shtetl.

42:17 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

42:18 Speaker 1 But her mother came with the name Rochkin, which, which a famous family in, till to- to this day in Richmond, Virginia, the Federation, all the rest of that, um, were Derus Lubavitch. That's what I heard.

42:30 Speaker 2 Interesting. Okay.

42:32 Speaker 1 So, uh, so that they, so, so, so again, so now it c- it come, it comes up of this, uh, uh, parnasah, right? When you get married, that's one of the things you gotta think about. So my father at the time was teaching in a Hebrew, uh, Talmud Torah in White Plains, New York. It's still there, Hebrew Institute of White Plains.

42:56 Speaker 2 What's it called?

42:56 Speaker 1 Hebrew Institute of White Plains. Still there. This is in 1938, 1939. Okay. But he wasn't ha- satisfied that, that this is what he wanted to do in life. So he's looking around. So there's a newspaper article, okay? Newspaper article that there's an ad for a Talmud Torah in Boston looking for teach, a Hebrew, a, a teach Hebrew teacher. And they're willing to pay $5 for the train t-ticket to come here from anywhere, whether or not you get the job. You know, just, you know, for the interview. So, 'cause they were, they were, they were desperate to get teachers. No one, no one would want to move to Boston. So my father said, "Look, here's an opportunity." So he took the, he took the offer, he took the $5, and he came to Boston. Went... He a- applied for the position. It didn't work out. But he said, "While I'm here, let me see if there's anything else going in town." And so it, so happens Rabbi Soloveitchik had opened a school in Boston, Maimonides. It's still there. And he was looking for a teacher, so my father applied and got the job. So now-

44:03 Speaker 2 Did he know him from YU, or he wasn't there then?

44:05 Speaker 1 No, he wasn't there.

44:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. Okay.

44:07 Speaker 1 But it was a, it was a position.

44:09 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

44:09 Speaker 1 But he was very impressed with my father. In fact, my father taught his daughters, who were brilliant. One of his daughters married Twersky from Harvard. You know, just to give you an idea of who they were. And so he, my father was teaching there, uh, for a few years. Then the story goes that... Not a story.

44:31 Speaker 2 Okay.

44:31 Speaker 1 The Friediker Rebbe came and opened a yeshiva in Boston. Sent Avraham Heft to open a yeshiva, but it didn't work. And we heard w- th- there was, there was a couple cl- there was a class or two in the back of the Lubavitch shul, couple of kids. Didn't work. And, and, and, and the way I heard it that Avraham Heft's wife hated it in Boston. She had no friends. She had nothing there. Her family's in, was in Brooklyn. So he, he, he, he left or he's about to leave, I don't know exactly the difference, to leave. My father heard the story, and he said to, he, he told me he felt he couldn't see a Lubavitch yeshiva closing in America. So he went to the Friediker Rebbe, and he asked him whether he can take it. He should take it. And the Rebbe told him to take it. Okay? So it, so good. So he did. Then he went to Rabbi Soloveitchik, and he says to him, "What do you think, Rabbi Soloveitchik? Should I take that position?" He says, "Why? I'm teaching, I'm giving you..." I have a k- He have two kids at that time. "Um, I'm giving you a good, a regular salary. Why would you throw it that away to a school the chances of it surviving more than six months are almost nothing? There's a couple of kids there. Who's interested?" So my s- my father said, "But the Rebbe told me to do it." He said, "Okay. The Rebbe

45:50 Speaker 1 told you to do it, go ahead." 25 years later, when my father retired, um, the guest speaker at the dinner was Rabbi Soloveitchik, and he still remembered it. He said, "I still remember the conversation. I wanted to let you know the position is still open." Okay? That wa- that was that kind of relationship.

46:08 Speaker 2 But the yeshiva still exists?

46:10 Speaker 1 Yes.

46:10 Speaker 2 Now, it's, um-

46:11 Speaker 1 My father built it up from two, three kids to 300. Um, in fact, one of his kids just passed away. He was a shliach in Framingham. Lazarus.

46:21 Speaker 2 Yeah.

46:22 Speaker 1 Was one of the kids in yeshiva.

46:24 Speaker 2 Interesting.

46:24 Speaker 1 I remember when he came.

46:25 Speaker 2 Interesting.

46:27 Speaker 1 There were hundred, there are hundreds of, of, of families who are now frum because of that. My father's, my father's an excellent mechanech, and he was very dedicated to the kids. The kids felt the love that he ha- had for every single one of them. Um, the ki- the kids that came to the yeshiva at that point were two sugim, two types. One was the kids of the frum tit, uh, rabbonim in, in the town, that they were Agudah and they didn't want to, m- Mizrachi education for their kids in Maimonides. Um, some of these came from Rothen, they came from different Litvisher cities. So, and the, and the o- and the others were, um, American or even, you know, socialist J- Jews, but they wanted the kids to know at least alef beis, to be able to read Hebrew so they can say Kaddish when the time comes. And every year the classes would get smaller. You know, uh, uh, the first grade had so more kids. Second, they, they know how to read already, so who needs it? They'll go to public school. That was where the way it was, it was working from year to year. Um, so, um, what's it? W- Yeah.

47:34 Speaker 2 There was a lot of, um... I saw that there's-

47:37 Speaker 1 Well, the, the, right. So you had the frum teach- teachers and the, and these k- and the, the, and, and my f- and my father put a lot of cheyls into them. I can give you an example, and this is something I remember clearly. Um, one of the, uh, the local kids, not the yeshiva kids, um, took Yiddishkeit very seriously. And the mother calls up my father one night, "My son didn't come home from school today. Where is he?" You know, "You're in trouble." So my f- it was a cold night. My father put on his coat, got in his car, and went driving around, and he went to, to different, to different shul. And he found that the kid, the, the kid, um, w- was learning and fell asleep and was in the shul. So my father, he screamed at him, "You keep, keep this kind of shtick, you're gonna be in public school tomorrow." Okay? But, you know, f- you know, my father himself went out there, got the kid, brought him home, and, and showed that kind of concern. Um-

48:33 Speaker 2 I saw there's a lot of, um, over the years, there's answers from the Rebbe to your father about his work in the school.

48:38 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, sure. And the, and, uh, and then there's another, another thing that I remember. Um, one second. I just lost it. That was, that was... Okay, I'll come back. Mm-hmm.

48:57 Speaker 2 So this is, um, this is where you grew up. You grew up in, in Boston.

49:01 Speaker 1 Right.

49:01 Speaker 2 When were you born?

49:02 Speaker 1 I was born in 1943.

49:06 Speaker 2 So in Boston, that's where you grew up, and you went to the

49:08 Speaker 1 I-

49:09 Speaker 2 ...

49:09 Speaker 1 Right.

49:09 Speaker 2 You, you experienced-

49:10 Speaker 1 I, I technically I was born in Baltimore. There's a story there, okay? Why I was born in Baltimore, my parents were living in Boston. Because Boston was, was a very secular city, and the, the rule was that they wouldn't allow a bris, um, w- unless the, the doctor was registered with the hospital. They still have places like that. So my mother said, "What do I need to start it? What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go to my parents to have the baby in Baltimore." It's a Yiddishish shtot. They don't have these kind of Litvishe problems. "And, uh, I'll have the baby there." So that's, uh, why I was born there in, um, in Baltimore, and they were there for a couple of weeks, and then, yeah. Then came the, the story, then an interesting story. Came time for the pidyon haben. A month later, maybe later. My mother's still, and the baby is in Baltimore. My father's teaching in Boston. So he goes to his boss, Rabbi Soloveitchik, and he says to him, uh, "Can I go, can I ca- I took off, I took off for the, for the Brisk. Can I take off for the Pini Ben?" So Rav Selvechik says, "Why? There's no reason that you have to take off. Why should the kids not learn?" But the Pini Ben. Pini Ben is no problem. During-- They don't have to waste one second of limud Torah. During lunchtime, you take the five dollars, you go to the principal who's a kohen,

50:34 Speaker 1 and you give him five dollars. That's all. You don't need the baby.

50:38 Speaker 3 Uh-huh. Okay.

50:40 Speaker 1 So that's what they did.

50:41 Speaker 3 Manitche, yeah.

50:42 Speaker 1 So I said, because of Rav Selvechik, I wasn't at my own Pini Ben.

50:44 Speaker 3 Place was to have a sudan, huh?

50:46 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, the lunch. In the cafeteria.

50:49 Speaker 3 Okay.

50:50 Speaker 1 They had a suda, all, the whole school. They had a lunch.

50:53 Speaker 3 So you grew up in Boston, and, like, this was your family's-

50:57 Speaker 1 Right

50:57 Speaker 3 ... like, like the shlichas. Like that's, that, that's what you were doing.

51:00 Speaker 1 Oh, yeah.

51:01 Speaker 3 The school.

51:01 Speaker 1 We, there are the letters that, you know, that when people, the issues came up, the Rebbe sent them to my father.

51:07 Speaker 3 In, in, in, in Boston?

51:09 Speaker 1 Yeah.

51:09 Speaker 3 Was there any other Lubavitchers there?

51:11 Speaker 1 Yeah, the other Krinskis.

51:13 Speaker 3 Right.

51:13 Speaker 1 In fact, there was a letter over there the Rebbe said, "You send to my father and to Rabbi Pinchas Krinsky, my, to my friends, Rabbi Castel and Rabbi Krinsky."

51:21 Speaker 3 The Friediker Rebbe?

51:22 Speaker 1 No, our Rebbe.

51:23 Speaker 3 Our Rebbe.

51:24 Speaker 1 It's in English letters.

51:25 Speaker 3 Uh-huh.

51:26 Speaker 1 Yeah.

51:27 Speaker 3 So when was the first time you saw the Rebbe?

51:30 Speaker 1 Oh, that's a very good story. Aaron told you that one?

51:33 Speaker 3 No, no.

51:34 Speaker 1 Okay. All right. That's a, that's a story. The thing is, the, why didn't I see the Friediker Rebbe?

51:40 Speaker 3 Yeah, why?

51:41 Speaker 1 Because, I mean, my parents were connected with it.

51:43 Speaker 3 Yeah.

51:43 Speaker 1 Oh, even goes more than that. Uh, when the Friediker Rebbe came here, um, my parents went to Yechidas.

51:51 Speaker 3 When he came to live?

51:52 Speaker 1 When the Friediker Rebbe came in nineteen forty. So I don't know exactly when, how much later. So they had Yechidas. And they told me, my mother, I think my mother told me, that Rabbi, uh, Shaul came down and brought them to, to the chosun kalah, you know, some tea and c-crackers.

52:08 Speaker 3 Who was chosun kalah?

52:08 Speaker 1 It was unheard of. My father and my mother.

52:10 Speaker 3 They were chosun kalah?

52:11 Speaker 1 They were married already.

52:12 Speaker 3 Ah, okay.

52:12 Speaker 1 It was after, after wedding, but shortly after. And so it was a, it was a big Yechidas, you know, a young couple coming to the Rebbe. So, uh, to the Friediker Rebbe.

52:22 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

52:23 Speaker 1 And you have, also we have a famous letter in the family where my mother writes to her parents, her father mainly, in Yiddish, that when the Rebbe ca- the, the Rebbe came to America, and the, and the, and the first Purim that was, that the Rebbe was here. And she writes that, "My husband and my father-in-law went to the hotel to, to the Farbrengen, and I stay home," she writes. And she's writing there that the Rebbe would, first of all, how he, how he looked, because she, she remembered him standing, you know, high and strong and at the hot- at, you know, the hotel over there. And here how he's tzerochen and can barely hear him, and he's asking, and he's working for trying to get money for Russian jewelry. She writes all this in that letter, um, which we found just recently or a while ago, um, she tak- because she writes to her father.

53:16 Speaker 3 Interesting.

53:17 Speaker 1 Now-

53:18 Speaker 3 But her father didn't come to New, to New York?

53:20 Speaker 1 Her father came, yeah. He didn't come sp- I don't guess he didn't come for that Purim.

53:24 Speaker 3 To, but later he came.

53:25 Speaker 1 He came-

53:25 Speaker 3 I said this, 'cause this is right away in Adar, right? Okay.

53:27 Speaker 1 Yeah.

53:27 Speaker 3 Right, right when Friediker Rebbe came.

53:29 Speaker 1 Yeah.

53:29 Speaker 3 Got it.

53:30 Speaker 1 That, that so my, so my zeide and the other zeide was there r-with my father. But he didn't come. Um, well, I heard from what's his name, from Posner, who just passed away, that he remembers-

53:40 Speaker 3 From Label.

53:41 Speaker 1 Huh? Yeah, Label. That he remembers that they used to walk down the street together. They said the Rov and the Shaigetz, achz ah rad my zeide. Going, walking on Kingston Avenue to the Rebbe out there.

53:52 Speaker 3 And they would come from Baltimore?

53:53 Speaker 1 Baltimore, yeah.

53:55 Speaker 3 Interesting. Um, so why didn't you see the Friediker Rebbe? You may be aware that having a simcha and celebrating an engagement of a loved one is a very, very happy occasion. At the same time, can be a very stressful time. The exorbitant amounts and costs that are involved with making a wedding in today's day and age really can take a very big toll on the chosun's parents, on the kallah's parents, and all around create tremendous, tremendous stress. Something needs to be done. When the Rebbe started Keren HaChamesh, one of the components and one of the needs that the Rebbe was addressing was specifically Hachnasas Kallah. In fact, over the years, and in recent years, Keren HaChamesh has given out subsidies, help, and aid to those in need making a wedding. But the time has come to do something drastically different and to make a real, real impact. In the last few months, Keren HaChamesh has launched a brand-new wedding package where someone can make a full Crown Heights wedding for under thirty thousand dollars. That is a savings of thirty to fifty percent for an average family on the wedding costs. This is something that is right in line with the mandate that the Rebbe gave Keren HaChamesh when he founded it to help with Hachnasas Kallah, and this is something that will help everyone in the community and will hopefully bring relief and the ability to celebrate simchas in the proper way without financial stress or worry. To learn more information, you can log

55:48 Speaker 3 on to hall.kerenchamesh.org. That's hall, H-A-L-L, .kerenchamesh, K-E-R-E-N-H-A-C-H-O-M-E-S-H.org.

56:01 Speaker 1 Okay, because you didn't really ch-- Those days it was very rare Traveling from Boston to Baltimore, yeah, it was a four-hour trip, it still is. But you had to take a train, it was a whole big deal. I mean, I, I-- later on, I know my father had a car, but he, he didn't travel.

56:18 Speaker 4 Right.

56:18 Speaker 1 So he never took me. The first time I ever went to New York was a wedding of Ramatal Dubinsky, alav ha-shalom, just passed away. Okay? He was a teacher in yeshiva. And he pa-

56:32 Speaker 4 In?

56:33 Speaker 1 In Boston.

56:33 Speaker 4 An a chatan.

56:34 Speaker 1 Yeah, in Boston.

56:35 Speaker 4 So you, you knew him, so you-

56:36 Speaker 1 So I, I, I knew him. And I mean, he was working for my father, and my father felt that, uh, we should bring the family to the chasuna.

56:42 Speaker 4 You remember what year this is?

56:44 Speaker 1 Yeah. I think it was Yud Gimmel. You can fi-- you can look up his, when the chasuna was.

56:48 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

56:48 Speaker 1 Okay? Dubinsky. So I, then I have a story there.

56:51 Speaker 4 So you were ten.

56:53 Speaker 1 Yeah. Nine, ten, whatever. And so I was there, and I didn't have a clue what was going on. So it was in a hotel, I think in, in, in Williamsburg. Um, and at that time, the chuppah, this is how I remember it, the chuppah was, um, outside. Meaning not on the street, on the fire escape. Okay? So every... There's all the... I, well, I came, I was a kid. I, you know, I'm just seeing a bunch of chairs and everything else, and I'm playing around by the chairs. Every- The rabbi comes in. I have no idea what that is. Um, he's going, everybody's following him to the fire escape, and I'm just fooling around. And then after, after the chuppah, um, the, the rabbi goes out, and everybody's following him. And that's nice, and you know what? Just watching the show, whatever. But somebody grabs me and pulls me into the crowd. So, and now I, I, I don't know who this is, and I don't know what it is, and I don't know when, and I'm scared. Okay? So but now we come to the, um... Afterwards, it comes to the rabbi house. It is waiting for the el-elevator to go down. So all, everybody makes a semicircle, and they're jumping up and down and dancing, and I end up in the front. So I'm standing right here, and the rabbi's right here. I have no idea what the rabbi is. I have no idea. I'm just standing there, and a ten-year-old kid, first

58:13 Speaker 1 time in New York, and everybody's jumping all over the place, and I'm just standing there, shock. And the rabbi saw that, and I was about to cry. So the rabbi walks over to me and says to me, "Vavu es tants't nisht?" Now, the rabbi assumes I know Yiddish, and he's asking why I'm, I'm not dancing. And he sees I'm... Now I'm really scared, I'm about to cry. Then I look up, and I see my father in, in the distance. So the rabbi turns around to see who I'm looking at, and then somebody grabs me and starts shaking me up like a white, like a milk bottle, 'cause the rabbi said, "Vavu es tants't nisht?" So you gotta dance. Okay? So that was my first experience with the rabbi.

58:51 Speaker 4 Ah. So yeah, a kiruv from the rabbi right away.

58:54 Speaker 1 Yeah.

58:56 Speaker 4 Tashre Yud Gimmel. Okay. And you came afterwards, or not, not so much?

59:03 Speaker 1 No, hardly ever. Later on, uh-

59:06 Speaker 4 So, so when did you come? You, so what, what was the next step, like, after Boston? Like-

59:11 Speaker 1 No, well, we, I was in Boston all the years, and we had yechidas with the rabbi for graduation and, uh, and other things like that. We came to, for Shabbatons a few times. Um-

59:20 Speaker 4 So over the years, you ha- you did come a number of times.

59:22 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, a number of times. The, the school arranged, um, for Shabbaton. We, and we slept in Bedford and Dean.

59:28 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

59:29 Speaker 1 You know, I mean, a couple of kids, you know, there. And, uh, before high school, before graduation, we had yechidas. The rabbi tried to convince us, to convince us that before you go to college, um, we should, um, have a year or two of yeshiva. Some of us did go, and some of them didn't. Um, there was a, there was a famous sicha that I, I found it later. I was-- That the rabbi said, uh, it says there, a group of kids from Boston, and the rabbi told the whole farbrengen to scream three times, "No college."

59:56 Speaker 4 Right.

59:57 Speaker 1 That was us.

59:58 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

59:58 Speaker 1 Like, that was my class.

59:59 Speaker 4 You remember this?

1:00:00 Speaker 1 Yeah. I remembered it, but then if I, we later we found it in the sichas.

1:00:03 Speaker 4 No college.

1:00:04 Speaker 1 No college. Every, the whole place would scream, "No college." That was really the campaign at that time. And then the rabbi asked, you know, we should try at least a year or two. But then we have a story like that. Rabbi Jacobson suggested to my father, you know, maybe since everybody's going to college, maybe we should extend the yeshiva for a, a program-

1:00:21 Speaker 4 You were thinking of going to college yourself? This is-

1:00:23 Speaker 1 No

1:00:23 Speaker 4 ... even if you're a chaverim.

1:00:24 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:00:25 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:00:25 Speaker 1 The whole class.

1:00:27 Speaker 4 Rabbi Jacobson suggested-

1:00:28 Speaker 1 Suggested like, a, that, that to my father, that they should make after 12th grade another year or two of, with Limudei Kodesh and Limudei Choel. So hold the kids for another year or two before they go to college. So my father was considering it. So Rabbi Jacobson went into the rabbi to discuss it. And the rabbi said, "No." Why? 'Cause of the Bostoner Rebbe. And I told the Bostoner Rebbe that story later. So the Bostoner Rebbe's working with college students, and therefore this could be a competition.

1:01:01 Speaker 4 Hmm. Interesting.

1:01:02 Speaker 1 That's what the rabbi told Rabbi Jacobson, and therefore it didn't happen.

1:01:06 Speaker 4 Huh.

1:01:07 Speaker 1 I told the Bostoner Rebbe the story that-

1:01:08 Speaker 4 And he-

1:01:08 Speaker 1 ... how the rabbi was machshav him.

1:01:11 Speaker 4 And he, he worked with college students? That was, that's what he was doing in Boston?

1:01:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I mean, there was enough college students to do this for, for the... Our graduates didn't have to go there.

1:01:18 Speaker 4 Right.

1:01:19 Speaker 1 Okay? But the rabbi saw that this would be a, I should say, a bit-

1:01:23 Speaker 4 So after high school, that's when you came to yeshiva?

1:01:26 Speaker 1 After high school, I came to yeshiva.

1:01:27 Speaker 4 Where'd you go?

1:01:28 Speaker 1 I went to Newark.

1:01:29 Speaker 4 You asked the rabbi what, what to do?

1:01:30 Speaker 1 No, that was, you know, there, there were three or four yeshivas then.

1:01:33 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:01:34 Speaker 1 So I went to Newark.

1:01:35 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:01:36 Speaker 1 And so I'm, my father felt when I was a kid, first learning to speak, I should learn Yiddish. He said, "English you'll always know." So f- I have, have no idea how long, and I remember the, the kids, "Hey, Grandma, what's he saying?" You know? 'Cause everybody's grandma spoke Yiddish. And so I-

1:01:56 Speaker 4 Y-

1:01:56 Speaker 1 I, but, but still after about a year or two, it was all English. But still somehow or other it stayed with me.

1:02:01 Speaker 4 You knew Yiddish.

1:02:02 Speaker 1 I knew Yiddish. When I came to Newark, and Mr. Friedman came to farher me, it was all Yiddish.

1:02:06 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:02:07 Speaker 1 And I was somehow able to do that. And the rabbi assumed that I knew Yiddish, and he said, "Vavu es tants't nisht?" He didn't try saying it in English.

1:02:14 Speaker 4 Right.

1:02:15 Speaker 1 So, uh, so anyway, so I was in Newark. The only problem in Newark was that I barely survived alive. The, the five of us were t- somebody who was a carrier of some, of typhoid, um-

1:02:27 Speaker 4 Typhoid

1:02:27 Speaker 1 ... yeah, um, touched food, and I ended up spending Pesach in the h- in the hospital. Not only s- not only did I spend Pesach in the hospital, five of us got sick, but I had the worst. They f- nobody could believe what it was until they figured it out, and they sent me to Boston to be home for Pesach to, in the hospital. And, um, and you know, in those days, they ha- they had, they, now they decide don't do that. In those days, they, they have the doctors be, do rounds with their students, and they used to stand in the hallway and tell them what's going on in, in the room. Now, no one ever told me that I'm in danger, and that's why, for example, Pesach, I was driving them all crazy. They, the food they brought me from home, but I had high fever. They wanted to wash me down with alcohol. I said, "No, no, no, no." I, you know-

1:03:16 Speaker 4 Pesach

1:03:17 Speaker 1 ... Chometz, Pesach, Chometz. Okay? No one told me there's a sakana here, so I-- And we l- and we just were learning hilchot that year. Okay? So no. So, uh, so the, the nurses were all put, cooperated. They're Catholic. You know, their hands were turning blue, washing me down with cold water, and the whole city said, "This kid is crazy." Okay? But I said, "No. No one told me the sakana, so why should I, why should I agree?" So this is what we did. And then while I was standing there, um, while they were standing telling, I, I hid behind the door to find out what are they saying about me, 'cause no one's telling me. We said, "Oh no, this kid's gonna make it, because we have only one medication, and that medication is, is hurting his liver, and we don't know how much longer we can keep it, and then we don't know what to do afterwards." So that got scary. So I said-- But they wrote into the Rebbe. The Rebbe said I should be with simcha. I said, "Oh, it's right. That's a bocher, you know. No problem, Rebbe. So we think it'll be okay." The Rebbe told me when I was, you know, ten years older, I should be dancing.

1:04:17 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:04:17 Speaker 1 So I took that as a hemsech.

1:04:19 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:04:20 Speaker 1 So, uh, yeah.

1:04:21 Speaker 4 Oh, you say the Rebbe told you to be with simcha about the, about your current situation?

1:04:25 Speaker 1 No.

1:04:26 Speaker 4 Oh, it's-

1:04:26 Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. No, no, the current situation.

1:04:27 Speaker 4 Oh, also. Also.

1:04:28 Speaker 1 Only then. I brought it as a hemsech, uh, uh, whatever that is.

1:04:31 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:04:32 Speaker 1 Okay? So, uh, so that's where... Yeah. Then the question came up, "What do I do next year?" My mother said, "No way in the world you're going back to Newark." "You barely came out alive." So what are the other options? Yeah, so my mother said, "You know what the, the best thing would be? Go to Baltimore. I have my parents there. You don't have to be in a dormitory, and my-- you'll stay in the house with my, with my parents, and you'll be able to sit and learn."

1:04:59 Speaker 4 Learn where?

1:05:00 Speaker 1 In Israel.

1:05:01 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:05:02 Speaker 1 So, uh, so we will th- think about it. So it happens again, Hashem, uh, the Mirker Yeshiva came to Boston. It was Pinny Feldman, who's now a mechutan 'cause we, we share a great-grandkid's teire, and, uh, Rav Berel Brosovsky. They came in Mirker Yeshiva. And so it happened that Pinny Feldman had learned in Israel. So they s- they came up the suggestion, ask him about the, the, whether to go there or Montreal. And he, he said he felt Montreal was a better experience. So then my mother agreed to write to the Rebbe. So we wrote to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe said, uh, you know, "Only Newark, Montreal, or seven seventy." And you know, he was, wouldn't-- "Don't even consider anything else."

1:05:44 Speaker 4 There's no Israel in the picture.

1:05:45 Speaker 1 No. "Don't even consider it." I didn't say... That's, those are the options. Well, Newark wasn't an option. And I was just a year or two out of high school. I didn't feel I was ready for seven seventy. So Montreal. So that's what I did for two years.

1:05:58 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:05:59 Speaker 1 I ran the day sch- I ran the day camp for two years also.

1:06:01 Speaker 4 In Montreal?

1:06:02 Speaker 1 In Montreal. Super Shabbos Day Camp.

1:06:04 Speaker 4 So what year is this? This is-

1:06:06 Speaker 1 This is '63, '64.

1:06:09 Speaker 4 And '65.

1:06:10 Speaker 1 Then '65 in 5726, I came to seven seventy. That was, uh, right after Rebbe's mother passed away. I was here that, that, that 12 Tishrei. And-

1:06:19 Speaker 4 You mean you were for Tishrei?

1:06:20 Speaker 1 I was in for Tishrei, and I w- I went to the hospital that time. I saw, you know, when, when the Rebbe went to the hospital, and she was in, um, still in the bed.

1:06:29 Speaker 4 It was a... Tell, tell, tell me about it.

1:06:32 Speaker 1 Okay. Um, we were at the farbrengen, and Zelikson was there. And then right after the, the, we left, and they said that the Rebbe went to the hospital. That the Rebbe, the hospital was Brook, you know, on K- on, um, Brooklyn Jewish at the time. Now it's interfaith. But it's, uh, over there and then, um, near Bedford or something like that. So we, we heard that the Rebbe went. We all went running, went running there.

1:06:58 Speaker 4 To the hospital.

1:06:58 Speaker 1 To the hospital. And so we went-- I go to the hospital. We have no idea. We're about a bunch of clueless people what you're supposed to do and not do. And no hadracha, no leadership. We're just walking around like a bunch of chickens without heads. And so I ended up in, we, you know, we went into the Rebbe's, into the room. So she's on the bed with covered. The Rebbe's staying there with his back to, to her, looking out the window. And we're just standing there doing nothing. And then the, then they said that, uh, the Rebbe told Groner those who weren't in the mikvah today should, should leave. Who wasn't in the mikvah? We just came from the farbrengen. Everybody was in the mikvah today. So that didn't work. So finally, the Rebbe said, "Everybody out of here." So oh, that's what he means. We, we, no, we, we weren't... W- w- they weren't thinking. You know, he said we could stay, oh, stay here. Just stay here, do nothing for a few hours. Just stand there and look. Okay?

1:07:52 Speaker 4 I think I heard the Rebbe said that this is nisht kin farbrengen or something like that.

1:07:55 Speaker 1 I didn't hear that.

1:07:56 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:07:57 Speaker 1 Okay. So we, so we dre- so we left the room, and we dreid around the hospital the rest of the day. Then came for Maariv. So we davened Maariv, and we heard the Rebb- we heard the Rebbe said Kaddish. And, uh, more details, you know, you'll, you can very easily, you can get, not from me. Uh, we were just walking around not having a clue what to do.

1:08:18 Speaker 4 Hmm. So then you end up s- staying in 770. You, you-

1:08:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. So there was for bringing every Shabbos already. And I made the the whole-- one of the main reasons I like Montreal, there were older bochurim which I could learn from. But suddenly I realized I'm the older bochur, so forget about it. I'm going to, I'm going to 770.

1:08:36 Speaker 4 Mm. And so you were there every Shabbos, and there was some bringing.

1:08:40 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:08:40 Speaker 4 So you experienced all of that.

1:08:42 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm. Yeah. Until the wedding.

1:08:44 Speaker 4 And you had your chidushei when you were for your birthdays those years?

1:08:47 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, every year.

1:08:49 Speaker 4 Is there anything you wanna share from those chidushei?

1:08:51 Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, okay. Uh, even-- Okay, first of all, the la-- the-- When-- After I go to yeshiva, I got married. Okay? That's, that's the story also. Okay?

1:09:01 Speaker 4 Yeah, but you get married after you have the chidushei bochur.

1:09:03 Speaker 1 Okay, both. Both. So that was just a regular chidushei those days.

1:09:07 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:09:07 Speaker 1 Okay? Um, afterwards, I was working in Tzache.

1:09:10 Speaker 4 Whoa, one second. So you got married?

1:09:12 Speaker 1 I got married.

1:09:13 Speaker 4 So how'd you get to Tzache?

1:09:14 Speaker 1 Okay. I was in Kalo, minding my own business, like everybody.

1:09:19 Speaker 4 So you got married in Chavzayin?

1:09:20 Speaker 1 Chavzayin, six-- right after the Six-Day War.

1:09:23 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:09:23 Speaker 1 I got-- The, um, the w- the week after Shavuos.

1:09:26 Speaker 4 You got married here?

1:09:27 Speaker 1 Here.

1:09:28 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:09:29 Speaker 1 My wife is from here.

1:09:31 Speaker 4 So you're learning in Kalo.

1:09:32 Speaker 1 I'm learning in Kalo. And I got a call one night, around midnight, like when everything else happens around here, they were asking, "Since the Rebbe just started Mivtza Tefillin, and we decided we should have someone to coordinate it, uh, we want you to take the job. And this is no money. The job is two hours a day. And now since you're in Kalo, Kalo those days started at eleven, you can do this job from nine AM to eleven every morning." Which is not ideal times, but I took it. It's a few extra bucks, and, uh, in those days, Kalo paid eighteen dollars a week. In fact, the group came to Rebbe Chodakov and said, "Look, it's not right. There's two people have to live. Could we get thirty-six?" He said, "No. The money is a symbol from gelt." It's a symbol, it's not, that's what you're not supposed to live from the eighteen dollars.

1:10:24 Speaker 4 It's a symbol.

1:10:25 Speaker 1 It's a symbol, so no reason. So eighteen is a symbol. Why do you need thirty-six?

1:10:29 Speaker 4 Two times five.

1:10:30 Speaker 1 Yeah. So not thirty-six, eighteen. So, uh, so then I was already working in Tzache just for two hours a day. And what, what we were mostly doing then is, uh, this later lasted for many years, that arranging that peoples go to hospitals, nursing homes, um, Sun- on, on Sundays. There for, for many years, I stood there down with Alma Shagalob, Alav HaSalaam, um, every like dispatching. You know, you two go to here and go here. And there were people who went there for many years, even after we stopped, they continued going to their same spot. It was their kavias, this nursing home or that nursing home, whatever it was, the airport. All these things started from, um, we had, again, once we had a story with, uh, with, with J-JDL were having a rally, and the guys came out, came over to the bochurim, came over to, to ask them to put on tefillin. So they went to Kahane.

1:11:25 Speaker 4 JDL is Kahane's organization.

1:11:27 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So Kahane said-

1:11:28 Speaker 4 They went to Kahane to what?

1:11:29 Speaker 1 To ask, you know, if he can tell his guys what to do. So he g- he agreed. You know, you should all put on tefillin, 'cause tefillin is the best Jewish defense.

1:11:36 Speaker 4 Uh-huh.

1:11:37 Speaker 1 Okay? That was nice. Um, so they all lined up. We had other stories like that, um, they're too young.

1:11:47 Speaker 4 So-

1:11:49 Speaker 1 So okay, so I'm now in, in, in Kalo, and then later, a year later, they were asking, "Offer me a position in Tzache." Now, one, just an, one, another interesting thing, most of the work that I was doing in those days was, um, what's called Erev Chabad. That meaning there are different organizations. There were no Chabad houses around. Different organizations-

1:12:16 Speaker 4 So I have a question before. You asked the Rebbe about, about what you should be doing?

1:12:20 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I had a couple hatsois, and, and the Rebbe pushed me in this direction. And I asked the Rebbe, I mean, "If I'm working in Tzache, will I be considered a shliach?"

1:12:32 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:12:33 Speaker 1 'Cause, I mean, now they are, they are offering me other things as shlichas, but, uh, I wanna be a shliach, but, you know. So the Rebbe said yes. He says, "Az mitut dearbit is men, is, is mene shliach."

1:12:45 Speaker 4 That's in Yechidas?

1:12:46 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:12:47 Speaker 4 Az mitut dearbit is mene shliach.

1:12:48 Speaker 1 If you're doing a shliach, you know, it's irrelevant where you are.

1:12:50 Speaker 4 Huh.

1:12:51 Speaker 1 Okay? 'Cause for a long time, Tzache would not, was not accepting shlichim in New York area. In New York.

1:12:56 Speaker 4 'Cause shlichas means to go out.

1:12:57 Speaker 1 Yeah. People going in, who knows where.

1:12:59 Speaker 4 Right.

1:12:59 Speaker 1 It's, it's a fair. You have your, you have your schools, you have your kollel, you are there. There's almost there is nefesh here, supposedly. And, uh, but I, I based, you know, on, uh, I, well, I'm personally now pushing more and more shlichas to New York, more and more Rebbe to go out because, uh, because that's what the Rebbe told me.

1:13:16 Speaker 4 And the Rebbe told you, yeah. Mm-hmm.

1:13:20 Speaker 1 Those, that, that's not undersqualify you if you're doing the work here.

1:13:24 Speaker 4 Right.

1:13:24 Speaker 1 Okay. So, uh, so that's what I was doing.

1:13:26 Speaker 4 So-

1:13:27 Speaker 1 And I was writing, you know, doing the work and doing... I'll give you one interesting example. We made-- It started with Mivtza Tefillin. There was a, there were two Jews, if they, I think they lived in seven oh six Eastern Parkway, Alav HaSalaam. And they, they dominant the conservative, but they liked Mivtza Tefillin. And they were a, um, veterans of the, uh, you know, American veterans in the hospital. So they decided they wanted to go to the veterans hospital every week and put on tefillin with people.

1:13:58 Speaker 4 These two guys?

1:13:59 Speaker 1 These two guys. And we did that for many, many years. Very many years. One day, they come to me, and they sa- they said one of the-- "We met somebody there in the hospital, and he put on tefillin, and he explained to us that he has a son in India with the gurus, and if we could help him come back." So they put him, we put him in touch with us, and we... And so I wrote, um, so how did it start? Yeah. I wrote him a letter, you know, one of those airmail letters. You know, saying, "We met your father, and we'd like to, you know, do I have some kind of relationship." So he wrote me back, surprisingly. He wrote me back, "Be not like the frog in the bottom of the well who think this is the whole world. Come up into the air and see there's a big world out there. It's not just the little bit that you think." This is pretty much what he wrote me. So, but he writes there, um, that he would like me to send him a Moreinu Havuchim in English. That's a, that, he, that was interesting. So I didn't know. I didn't know what I should do. Think, "What's he gonna do with it? He's gonna take it and teach the, give to the gurus and everything else." So I wrote it the Rebbe.

1:15:15 Speaker 4 The gurus.

1:15:15 Speaker 1 Huh?

1:15:16 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:15:16 Speaker 1 Yeah. So I sent in his letter to the Rebbe, and asked him, "What should I do?" So the Rebbe says, "Yes, I should send it to him together with a Tanya." Okay? And then the other thing on the letter, which I didn't address, but he's, the guy writes to me, he says, "In the future, however, if you wanna continue corresponding with me, please call me, address me by my title, Guru," blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You know, whatever his name is. So I didn't even address that, 'cause to me, I didn't care. If he won't let me talk to him, say, "Well, no, there, there are more people out there." But the Rebbe saw that in his letter, and the Rebbe replied to that, and he said I should reply to him that I'm willing to be mechallel mai kaved for you. You don't have to call me Rabbi as long as I don't have to call you anything.

1:16:06 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:16:07 Speaker 1 Okay. So I did.

1:16:09 Speaker 4 And this is an answer beksav-

1:16:10 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:16:11 Speaker 4 ... which is, uh, which has been printed-

1:16:13 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah

1:16:14 Speaker 4 ... to, to grant.

1:16:15 Speaker 1 Okay. So, so that was the, uh, the Rebbe's answer on, on the letter, which I didn't ask about.

1:16:21 Speaker 4 Right.

1:16:21 Speaker 1 And I kept contact with this guy. And, uh, eventually, the story gets more interesting. Eventually, he meets a young lady, um, whose father was Jewish in Germany, and it was, uh, they were in, they were all in India together. So, and she's showing some interest in Yiddishkeit. So I said, "Hey, maybe this, maybe this is the way to go that, you know, if she's showing interest, maybe she'll be magayer, maybe she'll bring him along, and we can do something with this." The only problem is we find out that his father is a Kohen.

1:16:59 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:16:59 Speaker 1 So gia doesn't work. So the, the question came up is, we, and we wrote to Ramaysha about this. Now, Ramaysha was, said, "Look, who said he's a Kohen? We don't have to believe his father is not, is about Jew. His father doesn't really know what he's doing. There's no chazakah here." And he was sort of being, Ramaysha was sort of li- leaving the door open that we could continue the conversation. But I came to him, and he said, "No way. I'm not gonna ins- inspire to ins-insult my father like that, that I g- I'm not gonna be a Kohen. It means he's not gonna be a Kohen. He's considered himself a Kohen. I'm not gonna do that." And he refused to do it. So what happens? They continued to live together. They never got married, and never magayer.

1:17:43 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:17:43 Speaker 1 My stories don't ne- don't have the end, nice endings everybody else's have.

1:17:47 Speaker 4 That means they're real. Um, you started, you started talking about the Erev in Chabad.

1:17:54 Speaker 1 Yeah. So the Erev Chabad in those-

1:17:55 Speaker 4 Erev Chabad.

1:17:56 Speaker 1 Yeah. Erev Chabad in those days, there were no Chabad houses. So the c- the orga- the e- the conservative, the Orthodox, the Hadassah, everybody would like to have a speaker from Chabad. A cu- a cu- you know, at a, at a meeting, you know, you need a, you need some kind of program, and we were cute.

1:18:12 Speaker 4 The Mavshas cute those days.

1:18:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. So we came. We s- We told a few stories, sang a few songs, and, and whatever, they charge them $25 or whatever the evening, 'cause they could, 'cause I... And, and so now I had to get speakers. So I tried getting Yom Alaot. It was a headache. Unbelievable. You got a Yom Alaot and commits himself. "Oh, we couldn't get a babysitter. Sorry, my wife needs it. She needed to go out." It wasn't, it wasn't happening. I couldn't run a program like that. It's not reliable. So what do you do? You go, you went, you went to 770, and we got a Bochum. There's how Manis Friedman, uh, uh, Lipsker, all these guys got their, their training from on a job training.

1:18:52 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:18:52 Speaker 1 That then I'll, I would get them and send them out. I was the shicher. So I would send them out, and, uh, and there we go. And it, it was working. Uh, uh, there was a car rental on Kingston Avenue, Chanovitch. After you could for $25, whatever it was, you could rent a car for the evening, and you got the B- you got, uh, run into the Bochur, got a Bochur, send him to the car, go. And it went. Then one day, the Rebbe says the whole siege that, that, that refuah should not be happening during Seder, during Seder. So gevalt, these programs are 8:00. Seder finishes 9:30. No one's, no one's gonna do a program starting at 10:00. So it so happens I, I was going to have Yechidut. That's how it came up. I was having Yechidut for my yumma leitis. So I went in, I asked a brocha for my yumma leitis. I asked for a brocha for, um, for the pegisha that was coming up soon. And, and I wrote to Rebbe, you know, "Help." You know, "What do I do?" I mean, it was part of the program. The Rebbe just very carefully, he says, "Give me a brocha for the yumma leitis." And he says, "And for pegisha, it's only once or twice a year. It shouldn't be too hard to get the Bochum." And I didn't say, "Rebbe, I'm talking about four times a week. I'm not talking two, three times a year." But I didn't have the

1:20:07 Speaker 1 gut to say that, so I didn't. So then I came out, and I said to Rav Dovid, "Should I g- should we c-cancel this whole program? I can't commit people on, on w- the way it is now, um, without Bochum." So Rav Dovid came up and said, "Look, tell him to ask Rashut." They should ask Rav Dovid for Rashut, and then, then they can go. So that's, yeah.

1:20:29 Speaker 4 To hear Rav Dovid's using his both of his hands-

1:20:32 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:20:32 Speaker 4 ... his tzach and, uh-

1:20:32 Speaker 1 Right. So that's what, so that's what we did

1:20:34 Speaker 4 ... and the tefillin.

1:20:35 Speaker 1 Uh, and on his zacharayus.

1:20:37 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:20:37 Speaker 1 And we, and we were able to do it. What? He writes to me-

1:20:40 Speaker 4 I know, I know the Yeshiva Miami got a hirah that, uh, even though the Rebbe said that harafat hamayan is outside of Seder, but they got a answer that yechidim, like individual Bochum are allowed to get Rashut. Uh, you know, um-

1:20:55 Speaker 1 Okay. So I, I didn't have that. I just had a rely on Rav Dovid.

1:20:58 Speaker 4 Yeah. Okay.

1:20:59 Speaker 1 Okay. Um-

1:21:02 Speaker 4 So you mentioned the pegishas. W- is-

1:21:04 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:21:04 Speaker 4 You wanna talk about that a little bit?

1:21:05 Speaker 1 Okay So, okay, so that was... Now, like just to get on that, on the same topic, um, the-- when I was trying to get Yungolit to go, to go to these things, which would, you know, sort of make things, if they would go. Um, so I have, I once went, uh, got to, um, Rael Baumgarten's shul. He was visiting. So I went over to him, "Maybe you could do an hour of Chabad? This way I can feel I got a human to go instead." So he says to me, "I'm going to Yechidas tonight." Okay. Well, that's a good argument. I can't argue with that. Then he turns around and says, "Oh, Azarava. Yechidas is at four o'clock in the morning. This will be much earlier." "Azarava," he said, "You know, if I go, it'll be good hachana." So he, he agreed. He said he'd. He went, and then he told me later that he went to the Rebbe and he told me, "Just came from an hour of Chabad, and my Yechidas was going on there," she said. It was, it was a different type of... Says, "That was nice." And then we have another story with Pogisha. Uh, Chaim Gutnick was here. I was trying to convince him he should speak at the Pogisha. We had our regular speakers, but I wanted, you know, but he's a personality.

1:22:16 Speaker 4 So I, I asked about the, the Pogishas. So you be-- Like, one of the things that you were doing-

1:22:23 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:22:23 Speaker 4 ... is you became the one responsible for the Pogishas.

1:22:26 Speaker 1 Right.

1:22:26 Speaker 4 That was, that was a-

1:22:27 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:22:27 Speaker 4 ... a big-

1:22:27 Speaker 1 Part of my job.

1:22:28 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:22:29 Speaker 1 And Jacob Chanuka was, came up with the ideas. It was his project.

1:22:33 Speaker 4 Right.

1:22:33 Speaker 1 But for probably one, he, he was in Boston, and to, to make it all happen was my responsibility.

1:22:38 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:22:40 Speaker 1 So, um, so I try to get Chaim Gutnick to agree, and he said, "Look, I speak a whole year. I'm here on vacation. Leave me alone." You know, over and over again. "Get, get off my case," et cetera, et cetera. I was following him in the hallway. He was going to Yechidas. I was staying with him in, in America's room. You know, "Get lost." I said, "Okay, I finally got the hint." So I, uh, right after that, he comes out of Yechidas, "Where's Castel? The Rebbe told me I should speak to the Pogisha in uniform." Okay? I, I said, "I didn't write-"

1:23:14 Speaker 4 His chaplain uniform.

1:23:15 Speaker 1 Y- yeah. "I didn't write anything. I didn't know. This was the Rebbe's idea, not mine."

1:23:20 Speaker 4 I was-- I just wanna say that the idea that when someone asks you to do something, to speak, to fabrayen, whatever, fatza samayanas, and that you should say yes, that's some, I mean, that's something from the Rebbe that I don't know if I... I, I don't know if everyone still knows about that, but then for sure not. So here's a, a, an actual example of that, that he, he told you no, but the Rebbe said o- obviously you should do it.

1:23:43 Speaker 1 Yeah. So then he came back looking, he agr- he agr- agreed to it.

1:23:46 Speaker 4 But he didn't ask the Rebbe about this. The Rebbe on his own said.

1:23:48 Speaker 1 I, yeah. I, I, I don't think he'd ask for it.

1:23:50 Speaker 4 Right.

1:23:52 Speaker 1 I don't know what he would expect, uh, anything else. But, uh, yeah, but that was the, that was the seder.

1:23:58 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:23:58 Speaker 1 Another thing which, one of the things I was involved in is Simchas Beis HaShoeva. Okay? That was all... That's how I got to know many of the older chassidim. My job was to organize the whole thing.

1:24:08 Speaker 4 To send people to Ari Asar the-

1:24:10 Speaker 1 From here, to Ari Asar

1:24:11 Speaker 4 ... the other, o- outside places.

1:24:12 Speaker 1 Right.

1:24:12 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:24:13 Speaker 1 It was so... I remember as a kid, people used to come to Boston on, on Sukk- It was just going back that far back. They would come a train, they go to Boston, then to Springfield.

1:24:23 Speaker 4 So this is, the Rebbe would speak about this from then, from when you were a kid?

1:24:27 Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't know what he's speaking. I just thought that they came.

1:24:30 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:24:31 Speaker 1 I don't think they came on their own. Matchman. So, so we, we, we, we, you know, I had a whole group of-

1:24:38 Speaker 4 I know somebody from, um, from Brookline-

1:24:43 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:24:43 Speaker 4 ... who's a Lubavitcher Yekumean today. And he sa- he told me that that was the, the main clique that made him a Lubavitcher was, uh, Lubavitchers coming to his Young Israel in Brookline.

1:24:55 Speaker 1 On, on-

1:24:56 Speaker 4 It was on Sukkos, yeah.

1:24:57 Speaker 1 On Sukkos. Okay. But I'm just saying that was much later.

1:25:00 Speaker 4 Yeah, in y- probably be in your times when you were arranging it. Mm-hmm.

1:25:03 Speaker 1 'Cause tho- in my times, I don't think we sent Boston already. We sent, uh, so it was probably it was done because, but whatever. So we were sending, we were sending to, um, to Springfield, to Baltimore.

1:25:14 Speaker 4 And you asked all the chassidim to go.

1:25:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. And they ha- and we had people who had kvi- kvias. Mendel Futterfas would go every year to New Haven. He wanted to see Mordechai Deitsch. Okay? And, and Label and, um, what, what's his name? From, from Ch- from, from Sachen, Eretz Yisrael, Labov.

1:25:31 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:25:31 Speaker 1 Yisrael Labov would go. Rabbi Mentalik would go to, to Newark because he, his family came from there. Rabbi Marlowe would go every year there to Newark, 'cause also he came from there. Um, Rabbi Mentalik used to stay, you know, would... I, I would have to organize the car. So sometimes the car didn't come exactly in time. "Nu, and vu, and vu is the car?" And he was standing, you know, you know, on my nerve. "When you..." And I have five cars leaving in an hour. "Yes, Rabbi, soon they'll be here. Soon they'll be here." Whatever. Running back and forth. Um, I have a cute story that, uh, there was a, there was a character here living in Crown Heights, a real character, and he had issues. And one time he calls me some Holomads, Sukkos. It's, it was, you know, five o'clock when I have five cars leaving. And he calls me up and says, "I can't take it, do it. I wanna commit suicide." So I tell him, "I mean, there is this logic to this, but te- uh, legally, I have to c- call the police-

1:26:30 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm

1:26:30 Speaker 1 ... if somebody said that." But at that time, I wasn't thinking. "Five-- I have all these cars and you're calling me now?" I, I yelled at him. "You're calling me on Su-- right now, Simchas Beis HaShoeva. I have five cars. I have no time for you. I want you to promise me you won't commit suicide until after Simchas Torah." I wasn't even thinking. It was just sort of a reaction. He's, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay."

1:26:50 Speaker 4 That was your suicide intervention.

1:26:52 Speaker 1 Yeah. And it worked. And I mean, he, he died years, a number of years later. I was at the funeral. But, uh, but you know, but that, that, that, that worked.

1:27:00 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:27:01 Speaker 1 That was, that was part of what was going on. But, uh, then there's another interesting story that's not, not really connected to this, is when my son was born It's interesting anyway. My oldest son, he was born in the f- the first night of Pesach. And, uh, so the, the, the seder then at that time was on the beginning of the ninth month, you would go in Yahirus for Bracha.

1:27:31 Speaker 4 Hanukkah was the seder back then.

1:27:32 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. So we did. Then I got into line, um, to get the matzah at Pesach, and I walked in over to the Rebbe, and Rebbe asked me, "Is she still home?" So, uh, I said, "When I got into line, she was." Okay. So I came home, I told my wife, "Isn't that strange that the Rebbe should say that to me?" And she says, "It's gonna be soon." So that night she had the baby.

1:28:00 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:28:01 Speaker 1 Okay? That night, it was later. That night-

1:28:05 Speaker 4 The night of the, the night of the seder.

1:28:06 Speaker 1 Yeah, after the seder. After the s- After the seder, um, I decided to go to the Rebbe's seder. I never went before, because I was in, I was out of town. As a bachur, I was always out of town. So this is the only time I ever went to the Rebbe's seder, uh, upstairs.

1:28:20 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:28:21 Speaker 1 So I went there, I come home, and she's not home. Where'd she go? Well, we lived on, on Lefferts across the street, and at, at the corner was the hospital at Brooklyn, but now it's Bais Rivkah. So she walked over. Okay. No one's home. We had all the plans if it happened Shabbos, what, when, where, but she just walked over herself. I come home, she's not home. So I walk over to the hospital, like I was hoping that's where she was. Yeah, okay. So then I went home, and I went to sleep. So she said, "What? You went to sleep? You left me to here." Now they didn't have things like breathing, you have to stay and the husband has to breathe and all the rest of that stuff. I said, "Look, what am I getting here? What am I just sit here and there and when back, pace back and forth? I mean, I, I have things to do tomorrow. I must get a sleep now, and then, then I'll come back tomorrow." She never forgave me for that.

1:29:09 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:29:10 Speaker 1 Okay.

1:29:11 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:29:11 Speaker 1 But, uh, that was the reality. So-

1:29:13 Speaker 4 I don't think it works like that today.

1:29:14 Speaker 1 No. No. I don't think it worked then, then either, but that's the way it was.

1:29:18 Speaker 4 That's how you work.

1:29:18 Speaker 1 That's how I work, because I, I don't know what to tell me what I'm supposed to do. And, uh, later, the week later was the Bris. So I walked into... I was staying by my in-laws in Borough Park, the Blau, so which is another story. So I came, uh, back and, uh, I told-- and I came to the Fabregen with a bottle of, of wine for, to the seder during the, during the... And told the Rebbe I had a Br- there was a bris today.

1:29:45 Speaker 4 It was on Pesach.

1:29:46 Speaker 1 On Pesach. Acharon shel Pesach.

1:29:47 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:29:47 Speaker 1 It was on the first day. It's Acharon shel Pesach.

1:29:50 Speaker 4 And the bris was in Borough Park?

1:29:51 Speaker 1 No. So it was here.

1:29:52 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:29:53 Speaker 1 No, bris was in Borough Park, right. And then I walked in for the Fabregen.

1:29:56 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:29:57 Speaker 1 And so the Rebbe, I told the Rebbe the, the, the... The Rebbe asked me, "What's, what's the name of the baby?" So I, I said-- I'm trying to think, w- how do I say this? So I said, um, "Anomer Menachem Tzemach Tzedek"

1:30:11 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:30:12 Speaker 1 I, I didn't have-- I was not gonna say M- Menachem Mendel, and somebody said, "You should have said the Rebbe's name." I said, "No, not me. That's not for me." I just said, "Anomer Menachem Tzemach Tzedek", and I got a bracha.

1:30:22 Speaker 4 When the... Yeah.

1:30:23 Speaker 1 Yeah. So that was that. And the Rebbe's looking out for me.

1:30:27 Speaker 4 Right.

1:30:28 Speaker 1 Taking interest.

1:30:29 Speaker 4 Right. I know over the years you had, um, quite a few hayrais with your, with your work in Sach.

1:30:37 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm.

1:30:38 Speaker 4 What comes to mind?

1:30:40 Speaker 1 Well, one I gave... Okay. I'll give you one, an interesting story with not mamish a hayrai, but it's ev- this is what everybody wants to know. And I don't, and I just tell you as much as I know. Okay? We know that Piggish started at, uh... We had two weekends. Boys and girls had two separate weekends. Well, it, it changed. Everyone wants to know, did the Rebbe okay it? Uh, what's the story?

1:31:02 Speaker 4 You're saying that it was together?

1:31:03 Speaker 1 It was together. No, no. It was two separate weekends. One went in for men-

1:31:07 Speaker 4 What changed? You, you-

1:31:09 Speaker 1 That now is we, we came together.

1:31:10 Speaker 4 Right. It came together. Yeah.

1:31:11 Speaker 1 Yeah. So the, the truth is, what happened is that the shluchim were telling us, "We can't leave our communities two weeks in a row. One weekend to bring the boys, and one week the girls." It's one or the other. So slowly we saw it was petering out. So we, uh, now, I, I don't remember asking the Rebbe the question, and that's what everybody wants to know. I didn't. I can't imagine I didn't dis- discuss it with Dovid Osken, or else I wouldn't find-

1:31:36 Speaker 4 I imagine a lot of the hayrais klal to your work was through, through the Dovid.

1:31:40 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:31:40 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:31:40 Speaker 1 Yeah. Generally, I didn't write in. Everything was pretty mu- most of all here I say I did, but a lot of times it went through him.

1:31:47 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:31:47 Speaker 1 So I, I can't imagine that he didn't ask. But well, um, we made that decision, and a few years later, I get ca- I get called in to Rabbi Khodakov on this. Why? Because in Detroit, there was a g- there was a machlikess going on between Berel Shemtov and Silverberg, that Silverberg was doing singles weekends, and Berel Shemtov said, "This is not our shita," and he was fighting it. So he said to him, "What do you want? They're doing... They do it in New York." So Berel Shemtov calls up Rabbi Khodakov. "What do you mean they're doing it in New York? How are you talking?" So Rabbi Khodakov calls me in together with Dovid Osken and said, "Uh, bring me your brochures for the last five years." Okay? So I bring the f- brochures for the last five years, and he's looking it through, and it says over there it's gonna be in the Brooklyn Jewish Center. "Brooklyn Jewish Center? It's only Torah." First thing he caught me. I mean, I mean-

1:32:44 Speaker 4 And Khodakov-

1:32:45 Speaker 1 If this don't apply... Yeah, Khodakov.

1:32:46 Speaker 4 But Khodakov never walked in there-

1:32:47 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:32:47 Speaker 4 ... 'cause it was conservative.

1:32:49 Speaker 1 Right. Even though even later he didn't, wouldn't walk in.

1:32:52 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

1:32:52 Speaker 1 His kids had to get married in Young Israel. Okay. Um, but just, you know, this is the first thing he caught me.

1:32:59 Speaker 4 The first, yeah.

1:32:59 Speaker 1 I said this is what people, this is, you know, people know that as the Brooklyn Jewish Center, I'm running a brochure. I'm not running, uh, anything else. Okay? But then he looks through, and he sees the word singles. "Aha, singles." I said, "Yeah, but it says there are couples, singles. I mean, that's for everybody." "Uh, uh, uh, uh," he said, "You really let me have it." You should know that because of you, you're undermining the tznius of the whole community. The girls in the mechana know a whole year this is treif. And because of you, now it's gonna become kosher, and it's gonna break everything. And he uses the expression, "Ein petropos l'arayos." You know, there's no responsibility for undermining morality-

1:33:34 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm

1:33:34 Speaker 1 ... of the community. And I told him, and, and I, and I, as I say, "Look," I was shocked. I said, "Look, if th- if, you know, this cost me a lot-" "Cost you money? I thought you sold your soul for money." They told me, "Pay, you're getting money for this. You, you, you, you're such a battlin, you do the, you did such a thing, and you get, and you, cost you?" "Yes." Okay. Anyway, he kept on, he kept on, he k- kept it on, and he kept it up the thing. So finally, when it's all over, I t- I finally got the nerve up. I said, "Rabbi Khadikov" He's my wife's, by the way, he's my wife's uncle. I told Rabbi Khadikov, "By the way, I thought I'm doing the Rebbe's kavana with the pkisha. If you're telling me what I'm doing is wrong, I'll stop. I won't do it. I don't, I'm doing, I'm not gonna do it against the Rebbe's will. This is what the Rebbe..." So he backed off. S- so I said, "So then Rabbi Khadikov, what do you want?" "It should be upstairs and downstairs." I said, "Upstairs and downstairs, the Rebbe's gonna be in the hallway, in between. That, that's not gonna work." But finally, it's all over. I, I go to Rav Dovid, and I say, "Rav Dovid, I'm completely confused. I have no idea what am I supposed to do." So Rav Dovid said, "Do what you're doing."

1:34:42 Speaker 4 Continue.

1:34:42 Speaker 1 Continue.

1:34:44 Speaker 4 Ah, so that's the story.

1:34:45 Speaker 1 That's the story. Not, it's not the story everybody wants, that they wrote to the Rebbe, da, da. I didn't.

1:34:49 Speaker 4 Again, may- maybe it's important to-

1:34:51 Speaker 1 Not yet

1:34:51 Speaker 4 ... No, I c-- I, I'm just thinking now. Maybe it's taka isgehaltn to do it together, but it should be y- the organizers should be mindful-

1:35:00 Speaker 1 No, they were right. Yeah, yeah

1:35:01 Speaker 4 ... be mindful of making sure-

1:35:02 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:35:02 Speaker 4 ... that it's done in the proper way, you know.

1:35:04 Speaker 1 And, and, oh, and there's another point which I s- I told a story recently, and somebody reminded me that also one of the things we agreed on is that at every pkisha I'll have a shadchan on board. That's not tamase.

1:35:15 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:35:16 Speaker 1 And I, it cost me thousands of, tens of thousands of dollars that every year I had a shadchan on board to interview, and they made a couple dates, you know, from the people, and followed up to the pkisha, followed up with some dates. Um, I still have it. But now I'm not paying. I have a volunteer, an older lady, um, who still keeps these numbers and calls, and over the years, a couple people got married.

1:35:38 Speaker 4 Hashem.