Ep. 44: Why I Received Over 700 Answers From The Rebbe with Rabbi Berel Levine

00:00 Speaker 1 When, uh, the Rebbe first spoke about it, the public was

00:03 Speaker 2 I'm Yossi Kamen. Welcome to Among Chasidim by Der Her, an ongoing farbrengen about life as a Chasid, our vibrant connection with the Rebbe, and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. B'ruchim habaim, Rabbi Levin. Thank you so much for being here.

01:11 Speaker 1 My pleasure.

01:13 Speaker 2 Okay. And I just want to give a little bit of a hakdama on my own, that first of all you did a tremendous service for the world, that, uh, your, your role as the, the chief librarian of the Rebbe's library and all of the other things that you're involved with, I mean, you-- the answers that you have from the Rebbe are probably, uh, I didn't count, in the hundreds or more?

01:40 Speaker 1 About five, six hundred.

01:41 Speaker 2 Five, six hundred. And the reason why you have so many answers is because you really-- I mean, in, in English, uh, you worked for the Rebbe, mamish, like, you know, and, and you did a big service for the world that you mamish printed every single-- I don't know if every single or is it every, every single?

02:00 Speaker 1 I think so.

02:00 Speaker 2 Every single answer you got from the Rebbe with a background, and this is all out there. It's published, the Sefer Avei DeZakaish. And I'm saying this hakdama first of all to thank you, but also that it's gonna be impossible for us to go through every single detail because we would be sitting here forever. So we're gonna try to focus on certain areas, and, uh, we'll see how it, uh, how, how it evolves. Sounds, sounds like a plan?

02:26 Speaker 1 I'm impressed.

02:27 Speaker 2 Okay. So let's begin. Um, I always like to know a little bit of the family background, where you came from, where your parents came from, and how you, uh, where you, you know, how you got here.

02:40 Speaker 1 My parents lived in Kharkov till in middle of the war. When the Germans came close to Kharkov, they fled all the way down deep in Russia to Samarkand. They lived in Samarkand till after the war. After the war, they fled Russia with fake papers. Th-there's, um, some people, Polish people that got killed in the war, so they got their passports, and they left Russia with these passports into Poland. And from there, they went to Pocking, which is a DP camp in Germany. They lived there for about a year and a half with the whole Chabad community that fled Russia until they settled in Paris. They sa- they came there in, in early תש"ח, and in the end of תש"ח, I was born. They lived another few months in Paris, and then they came to Eretz Yisrael, and they settled in Kfar Chabad, who was then established early summer תש"ט.

04:01 Speaker 2 So you were born in the DP camp or in Paris?

04:04 Speaker 1 In Paris.

04:05 Speaker 2 In Paris. And your parents, both your mother and your father, came from a family of Lubavitch Hasidim?

04:10 Speaker 1 My mother came from Lubavitch Hasidim. My father, in the early years, there was no other yeshivas in Russia that stayed there, only underground Chabad yeshivas, so he went to Vitebsk Yeshivat Chabad and learned there.

04:28 Speaker 2 So what type of family was he from?

04:30 Speaker 1 Pol-- uh, uh, Ukraine, from Hasidim, general Hasidim.

04:35 Speaker 2 General Hasidim. Okay, interesting. So he, he's learning at Tomchei Temimim, then they go over to Eretz Yisrael, and that's where you're born.

04:43 Speaker 1 Yes.

04:44 Speaker 2 That's where you grew up, I mean.

04:45 Speaker 1 Yes.

04:45 Speaker 2 Yeah. And you attended the yeshivas in, in Eretz Yisrael, in Kfar Chabad?

04:51 Speaker 1 I, in my youth, I learned in cheder in Kfar Chabad, and then by a little before the bar mitzvah, I went to the yeshiva of Tomchei Temimim in Lod. In-- But then after the bar mitzvah, I decided that my place is here in the yeshiva by the Rebbe. I felt this is my place, and I told that to my father several times. In the end of that year, my father was here for Tishrei, so when he went into yechidus, he told the Rebbe my desire to come learn here. I was still so young. So the Rebbe told him, "This, this year he should stay in his, in Eretz Yisrael, and if he will learn good, which kid was moderate in there, so then in the end of the year, you should ask dan hall of the yeshiva there to write to dan hall in yeshiva here. They should send them a student visa." And in that year, I tried to learn very well, and I wrote to the Rebbe that I'm going to start My eff-efforts to learn very good, and the Rebbe wrote to me a letter when he wrote among others that it should be in the even of Yogayto, the Torah calls it Yogayto, and then it would be the real Umotzozo. So in the end of the year, I, he, the, the Hanho wrote a letter to here to ask for my student visa, and they send them. Until I got the visa, it was Teves Tov Shin Chof Daled, and

06:36 Speaker 1 I arrived here, Chof Beis Teves Tov Shin Chof Daled.

06:42 Speaker 2 And when you came here, you, um, where did you go? Where did you learn in, in yeshiva here?

06:48 Speaker 1 I went to Newark, that yeshiva that later went to Morristown, and I learned there for the year of Tov Shin Chof Daled. I was supposed to, according to my age, to go stay there for another year, Tov Shin Chof He. But then there was the hisdalkus of the Rebbe's mother, Rebbe's Nechama, and the Rebbe started learning for the Omer three times a day and for bringing every Shabbos. And from Newark, they would permit the bochurim to come here only once a month for the farbrengen of Shabbos farbochurim. I said I didn't come from Eretz Yisrael to stay somewhere in Newark and to come see the Rebbe only once a month, so I stayed here. Then Hanho here didn't accept me because you're too young. I was just then becoming 16, so I should go back to Newark. I didn't go back to Newark. I stayed here. I slept in one of the rooms of all the Torah yeshiva, and I used to learn in seven seventy. After two months, Hanho here saw that I'm here to stay, so they accepted me finally, and since then I learned in seven seventy.

08:08 Speaker 2 I think I heard that from others that they also had plans to go to other yeshivas. Maybe, I think the group was supposed to go to Montreal, and then Tov Shin Chof He, when they saw what was going on here in seven seventy, they canceled and stayed in seven seventy.

08:21 Speaker 1 Some people did, yes.

08:23 Speaker 2 And you had, um, mesirus nefesh to do it?

08:26 Speaker 1 I felt that's what I came here for, not to just be somewhere and come here, see the Rebbe only once a month.

08:35 Speaker 2 Okay. So, um, during that time when you were in seven seventy, besides the farbrengens, I imagine you were also in Yechidas a few times.

08:48 Speaker 1 Right when I came after Yud Shevat, a few weeks after I came, I went into Yechidas, and I wrote of my learning in the yeshiva in Newark. So the Rebbe told me there is a issur to go out from Eretz Yisrael to chutz l'aretz unless it purpose is to learn Torah. So therefore, if you learn Bishkidivas Modeh here in the even that the Torah wants you, then you have the heter to stay here and come out from Eretz Yisrael. So that's my first Yechidas, and I learned here for the two years, one year in Newark and one year in seven seventy, and then my student visa ended, and I wanted to stay here, continue learning. So I went in another Yechidas two years later in the end of Tov Shin Chof He, and I wrote to the Rebbe that my student visa is over, and I wanna stay here. So the Rebbe said the same thing again. The only way to be able to co-- uh, to come out from Eretz Yisrael to chutz l'aretz is if you learn Bishkidivas Modeh. So if you do that, you could try to stay here. I went to the lawyer then. There was a lawyer named Ring that he was mesader the papers for the bochurim in seven seventy that needed to be get, get Americans', uh, uh, uh, green card and then citizen papers. So he told me, "Since you have no immediate family here in the States, you'll be-- it will going to be hard for

10:45 Speaker 1 you. They should permit you to become a American citizen. So the only way is if there is a school that would write a letter that they invite you because they need you very much. So then they would maybe give you the green card to be able to stay here for that purpose." A few days later, R-Rabbi Jacobson, who was the mashpia in yeshiva, came over to me and told me that, "I hear that you have difficulties getting the papers to stay here. But I have a student in Passaic, New Jersey. He runs there a day school. His name is Bobroisky." So I spoke to him. "He'll invite you and give you a interview, and then he'll try to give you such a letter." I went to Passaic. I met with him, and then he wrote me an invitation that he needs me to teach Hebrew in the day school. And with this, I came back to the lawyer, and he worked on it until finally I received the papers to stay here. Since the Rebbe told me that it's up to my so in the next year, I learned a lot, and mainly I used to learn at night and didn't care so much about time of sleeping and eating. The Rav Mentlik tried to stop me from it, and he told me, "You put your health in danger." But I didn't, it didn't help. In the end of the year for Tishrei , my father came here again for Tishrei, and Rav Mentlik told

12:43 Speaker 1 him the whole story. So when my father went into Yechidas, he told the Rebbe w-what Rav Mentlik told him about me. So the Rebbe told him he should tell me to learn where the Alter Rebbe says that if one learns Torah, he's not allowed to fast because it's going to disturb him from learning. So the he-- my father told the Rebbe he doesn't fast. He just doesn't pay attention enough for eating and sleeping. So the Rebbe told him what is the different if you kill someone completely or just half? It is also not enough. So, uh, my father told me that, and since then I'm trying to be careful in times of eating and sleeping.

13:44 Speaker 2 meaning... Anyways, whichever way, it's still not, uh, taking care of yourself.

13:49 Speaker 1 Not proper, yes. It was very interesting in that time when my father came here for Tishrei . My is the end of Elul. So El- every year it was very difficult for me to get the Yechidas because they, in that days, the Rebbe didn't accept Yechidas, only the guest that came.

14:14 Speaker 2 In Elul, in Elul and Tishrei?

14:16 Speaker 1 Yes. But I wanted to go in before my . So I used to stay and wait till the end of the Yechidas, and then they permitted me to go in for a few minutes. So in the end of when I came into Yechidas, so the Rebbe answers my Yechidas, and when I'm ready to go out, he tells me, "By the way, you probably know your father is coming tomorrow." I was shocked. He received a letter from my father among thousands of other letters that he's arriving here on a certain day. And when he saw me in Yechidas, he realized this is my father, and therefore he told me, "You sh- you probably know that your father is coming tomorrow."

15:06 Speaker 2 Yeah. Um, there was also a story, um, right when you came, your father gave you a bottle of, uh, of mashke.

15:15 Speaker 1 Yes, that was the first time I went over to the Rebbe. He, he used-- Those days, they would put a, a bottle of mashke on the table by the Rebbe.

15:24 Speaker 2 You can give it to the Rebbe then.

15:25 Speaker 1 Gave it to the Rebbe and for, for the farbrengen. So he gave me a bottle of mashke, and I, by huge farbrengen, between the sigeres, I went over to the Rebbe and I told him, "This is the bottle of mashke that my father is sending with me." So he tell me, "Who is your father?" I say, "" So he says, "Ah, Levin." Okay, he took the bottle, he looked on the wine of the mashke, and he looks on the Hersha, and then he turns around to his back over there, sat one of the Chabad, um, Rabbonim in Eretz Yisrael, and he's asking him, "People are using this Hersha?" So he says, "Yes." So he asks him, "Do you use-- do you drink this Hersha?" He said, "No." So he turns back to me and he tells me, "So then, Hovnish Kinvar Yebel, don't mind if I don't accept it, and come here and say l'chaim." And he pu-pull me in from one of the bottles that was standing by him into my cup to say l'chaim, and then he returns me the bottle and he says, "Give it out to the people."

16:40 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. So I'm, I'm sure there's, um, a lot that you can share about when you're a bachur. Um, I just wanna, I wanna get to, uh, the so I, I was-- I'm gonna m- uh, move on to you're in seventy, seventy till when?

17:07 Speaker 1 Till when I got engaged.

17:12 Speaker 2 So what happened when you were getting engaged?

17:15 Speaker 1 Then I went to Paris to meet my future wife. But it was not comfortable to go and people see why you're going in a older age, so they understand why you're going. So I wrote to the Rebbe that after Paris, I'll go from there to nearby London and for officially I'll say that I g- I'm going there to help on summer with the work of Rabbi Tzadok the Shliach of London. So the Rebbe crossed it out, and he says, "You're going to go to help-

18:02 Speaker 2 Mm.

18:02 Speaker 1 "... Rabbi Tzadok." So that's what I did. I went to Paris. To meet my future wife, and then I went from there to London. And in London, I went around to many shivas and kehillah in London, and Manchester, and Sunderland, and Gateshead to speak with the Bochurim and the Rosh Yeshivas in learning in hal-- in Nigleh and also in-- about Chassidus. It was very successful, and when I came back, I wrote a report from all the visits where I was.

18:42 Speaker 2 It's very interesting because, uh, it's a that people are going, you know, uh, to date and they're traveling, but here the Rebbe is basically informing it has to be a teshuvas.

18:52 Speaker 1 That is correct. But nowadays people are much easier in going traveling than in those days. That was, uh, uh, out of ordinary, so I felt not comfortable. But when he gave me this mission, I was completely in this mission for, for two weeks, and then I went back to Paris, and from there I went back here.

19:17 Speaker 2 Yeah. So you got engaged, and you had your chassan here or, or there?

19:22 Speaker 1 Yes, I had chassan, uh, a few months later in Yud 8 Kislev, Tav Shin Lamed Heh here.

19:29 Speaker 2 And then you did this before, for the chassan?

19:32 Speaker 1 Yes. And then it was-- Then I went to the kollel, but it was a interesting thing then. For some reason, the Rebbe wasn't satisfied of how, how much and how they're learning in the kollel. He went there to visit the kollel in, uh, in a surprise, and he saw how they're learning, and then he wrote a letter to them that he wasn't satisfied. So then he said in a farbrengen he wants to open a kollel from younger light that are really learning. So he'll take twenty people. Ten would learn mainly Nigleh, ten mainly Chassidus. From them, five mainly in the Girsa and five mainly in the Yuna, and that's going to be the kollel. I was a rosh, so I felt I'll be part of it. But actually, they didn't find the twenty that he wanted, or for any other reason, it never materialized. So I went in to the kollel and I learned there for several years.

20:46 Speaker 2 To the regular kollel?

20:47 Speaker 1 Regular kollel.

20:49 Speaker 2 Okay. So while you're learning in kollel, I believe that's when your work, uh, began. Is that correct?

20:59 Speaker 1 Uh, y-y-- The first thing that I started, uh, uh, I did in the kollel was the contrast of near Shabbos Kodesh. It was in the end of Tav Shin Chaf Daled, a sicha to the ladies. The Rebbe said that every lady and girl-

21:21 Speaker 2 Lamed Heh?

21:22 Speaker 1 La-Lamed Heh, which was the end of the year of when I got married and I learned in kollel. So they should, uh, light candles with the brocha. And then he spoke about it several times, and many Rabbonim-

21:36 Speaker 2 That was Niftsa Neshik?

21:38 Speaker 1 Niftsa Neshik. And then many Rabbonim wrote to him that comes out that the girls in the house cannot say a brocha. And how come he says that they should say the brocha? So the Rebbe-- W-when we learned in kollel then in one, one day comes in Rabbi Groner and says the Rebbe said that the kollel should learn this sugiah thoroughly, and then write a bio on the minhagim and why it's okay. So the kollel started looking into it, and then they decided that myself, and Rabbi Lustig, and Rabbi Silverberg should learn the sugiah. We'll learn the sugiah very thoroughly. And then I prepared the whole contrast to explain according to our understanding. We had a lot of questions, but we explained it in our understanding. And then we want to-- I wanted to give it out by three of us, but they said you did the main work, so it should be on your name, and just would in the introduction say that we helped you. So that's how it was. We, I sent it into the Rebbe. I wanted to know if, if that's the correct explanation. He wrote somehow else. He didn't go into details. Then he said I should print it, a lot of copies, and send it to each one of the Rabbonim in the United States of Haguda's Rabbonim, Salda's Rabbonim, Ighuda Rabbonim, and that's what I did. I got some money to print it because it wasn't going to be officially from Kehos Anubavich, but just my own thing

23:33 Speaker 1 as of... And I send it out to all the Rabbonim. And then when the Igress in the Likud Esichas was printed, we saw that in one of the letters they wrote, he-- the Rebbe answered to one of the Rabbonim that ask him questions on the Halacha, that he, uh, Rebbe answered him, and then he says, " in this subject." So I felt satisfied that it-- I did what-- That was my first project in the kollel for working for the, for Chabad, for, for the Rebbe, whatever Rebbe asked. But then, uh, a year later in Tav Shin, uh, Lamed Vav, in Yud Beis Tammuz farbrengen, the Rebbe said a sicha that we should, we should open a mo-- in the, in kollel, we should open a Mochin of-- and the Keves, giving out the Keves that would gather the, from Kisve Yad hal-- uh, things that Rabbo-- the Rebbes wrote in Nigleh. And Chassidim-

24:57 Speaker 2 Well, the purpose of the-- This is Yaagal Tora, right? So the purpose is, is to collect things from the Rabbeim on Nigleh? That's, that's the purpose of it?

25:06 Speaker 1 Yes. Rabbeim and Chassidim on Nigleh. He didn't call it yet in Yaagal Torah, and he didn't selectanyone to be in charge of it yet. So he just explained in general the purpose of it, and he said that there is still not decided who will run it, so therefore everyone that wants to participate should write in Ha'aras Tumas Kiras, and that will wait till someone will be in charge on it.

25:38 Speaker 2 So it's Ha'aras-- It's people writing Ha'aras about the Nyane from the Rabbeim in Nigleh. That's what it is?

25:44 Speaker 1 First to get those things from the Rabbeim that was not published yet, edit it, and print it in the Kevetz. And then comes the Ha'aras on it that Chassidim are, are writing. So I also wrote in Ha'aras, and I gave it in to Maskiras. So then calls me in Rav Chadakov, and he tells me that the Rebbe had in mind that you should be the, in charge of this Morin. But he didn't mention that because he wants to know what happened to the Hatzor that you were supposed to become the Rosh Yeshiva of the Yeshiva in Maristan. And he answered you to accept it, and he doesn't know what happened. So I answered Rav Chadakov, "That's correct." I, in, in that year, the, the Rosh Yeshiva was Rav Heller, and he was appointed in spring of to stay, to stay in the head of the Kehillal here together with Rav Shome, Rav Shome Shemen Dvorkin. So they had the opening there. So there, the Menahal was Rav Shmuel Keber.

27:04 Speaker 2 They had an opening in Maristan?

27:05 Speaker 1 Yes. So they spoke to me that I should become the Rosh Yeshiva and give the higher shir. So I asked the Rebbe, and the Rebbe obvious- obviously answered me to accept it, but for some reason, the answer got lost, and I didn't get answer, so I didn't accept it. So Shmuel Heber became the Rosh Yeshiva himself. So then, uh, the Rebbe writes he wants to know what happened to that. So we called Rav, Rav Hersson in Maristan, and we told him the whole story. So he invited me to come to discuss it because he said that now already they hired Rav Shmuel Heber to become the Rosh Yeshiva. I went there, and we spoke, and in the end, they told me that the Rosh Yeshiva is going to stay Rav Shmuel Heber, so if I want, they could give me the second class, second highest class to teach. So I said, "I'll ask the Rebbe." I then came back, and I wrote to the Rebbe what they, they offered me. And the Rebbe said, "If that's the case, then better stay here and continue to editing the Kehillat Hagdal Teire." I-

28:23 Speaker 2 So if you, if you would have gotten that answer

28:26 Speaker 1 Then I would become the Rosh Yeshiva of Maristan, yes. But since I didn't, so I stayed here. But I still didn't know what, how, where I should get the material for the Kevetz. So we had a lot of discussions, but nothing came out in practice. So then in Hof Ov, he spoke about it again, and he said that you're thinking too much. First, print whatever cheber you have already, and then it going to work out. So I gave right away to print what we had already. Uh, what did we have already? It's because a half year earlier, in Purim time, I thought maybe it would be idea to give out a Kevetz, and I wrote to the Rebbe together with Rabbi Meyer Cohn that, um, uh, Bloy. So the-- We sh- we offered that option, and the Rebbe answered to the Maskiras that we shouldn't do that. So therefore, later, when half a year later, when he decided to give out such a Kevetz in this eight month, so he said, "Whatever you have print, ready for print from then, give it to print." So I pr- gave it to print, and we added some things that we got later, and that came out the first volume for Rosh Hashanah. We still didn't have a name. I asked how we should call it. The Rebbe said, "Give me advi-- uh, hatzos." Uh, some, some what you think, and I gave a few hatzos. The, the Rebbe said the best thing to call it Jagdal Teire,

30:16 Speaker 1 and since then-

30:17 Speaker 2 Was that one of the hatzos?

30:18 Speaker 1 No.

30:18 Speaker 2 That was the Rebbe's own name?

30:19 Speaker 1 Yes.

30:21 Speaker 2 So since then, it became Jagdal Teire. And this went on for years, right?

30:25 Speaker 1 That went on for ten years, came out every month or every two months, and, uh, that was my main occu- main occupation in that ten years, and came out seventy-two chevres.

30:40 Speaker 2 And it was constant ha'aros from the Rebbe, uh, regarding-

30:44 Speaker 1 Constant. Every, every Kevetz gave, uh, I gave it to him, and he gave some ha'aras, some comments, corrections. And sometimes it was more complicated. There was somebody wrote something about the time of making kiddish Six hours after and the Rebbe said in the previous years a few answers, and people didn't know exactly what it means. And some people say it like this, and some people say it like that. So I told them the three options what people explain it, and what is the real thing, and I put it in together with the whole that Rabbi Shalom Arzhov wrote. So the Rebbe didn't answer yet, but every month I got the final okay to give it to print, and then he really didn't give me the final okay, so I didn't know what to do. So I asked the maskiras if the Rebbe means I should wait or I should print it right away. So they answered me, "The Rebbe said he wants to answer you specifically on the question you asked, and he's busy now. So when he will be available, he'll write, and then you'll print." So a few weeks later, he gave me a long letter that he wrote, and we published or gave it with that. But that's a specific one. A few times was like that. But mainly was only corrections and additions over the years.

32:22 Speaker 2 And all of these things... So you would write through maskiras, and then Rebbe would send out the answers? That's how to say that?

32:28 Speaker 1 Usually when I-- before I gave it to print, after they set it in, in, um, uh, in, in the print shop, so I would give the, a copy of it to the Rebbe, and, uh, his okay was when he gave on the Pesach Darbo, he gave the date, so, and he gave it back to me. So that means that you're ready now to give it to print, and the date would be on the Pesach Darbo like he wrote. And in addition to that, he wrote some corrections inside.

33:01 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. So this is the תקופה that you started working in the library during this?

33:08 Speaker 1 No, that was only... I, I, I asked if I should continue in the library in the kollel, or I should do, do this. And the Rebbe answered I should continue learning in the lib-- in the kollel, and that would be a project of the kollel. So I do-- I should do this as part of the work. But then, the working in the library came half a year later. Then there was another story with the Rosh Yeshiva. Here in Ohel Tehillah, the Rosh Yeshiva then was Rav Avrom Garelitzky. But he, his brother got married in Eretz Yisrael, the

36:19 Speaker 2 What, what do you mean when they got the library?

36:40 Speaker 1 When they purchased the house in, in '66.

36:45 Speaker 2 They bought the building, then they-

36:46 Speaker 1 They bought the building, and they, uh, uh, devoted it to the library. They put, they put up bookcases, and they filled it up with seforim, and they asked Rav Chaim Lieberman to help them to divide it. And then for the next 10 years, from '66 till '76 The building and the whatever is involved with the material parts was involved, uh, uh, Rabbi Yudl Kirzschner. And to set this forum was in charge Rabbi Groner. And in that, uh, discussion with Rav Hadadov, he said Rabbi wants you to run the library, and he already gave the order to Rabbi Groner that you'll be in charge from now.

37:41 Speaker 2 So in the beginning, the library was basically run by maskirus?

37:45 Speaker 1 Yes.

37:46 Speaker 2 And then it was, I guess it was too much for them or whatever, so they, they, they need, someone else was needed to do this.

37:50 Speaker 1 Correct.

37:52 Speaker 2 So your-- So the job was that there was a lot of seforim that came in, so and it was, it was not organized. To catalog, to make a catalog, that was, that was the, the main work?

38:00 Speaker 1 Yeah, we took a few, uh, bochurim to help me, and we together we prepared a catalog for the next three years from then till Tav Shin Mem. In Tav Shin Mem, in middle of the winter, I wrote to the Rebbe that we just-

38:22 Speaker 2 I was saying, w-was there hirais from the Rebbe about how to catalog or anything like that, any details?

38:27 Speaker 1 There was hundreds of it, but I'm going into details, that would be details that would be only complicated and that wouldn't, uh, be a just a story.

38:37 Speaker 2 So everything that was going, that you're, that you were doing, you were reporting to the Rebbe about what, what was happening?

38:41 Speaker 1 Constantly. We had, if I say that about six hundred answers I got over the years that I worked for the Rebbe, that means almost every day I got something from the Rebbe, instructions.

38:57 Speaker 2 It's also unique that the whole world, they got answers from the Rebbe, they di- they only got a copy of the, of the Ksav Veyad. But tho- maskirus and if you work in the sichas, uh, and you got, uh, the actual Ksav Veyad from the Rebbe.

39:12 Speaker 1 That is correct. And the unique thing is that usually people don't have so many answers b'ksav for several reasons. If it's maskirus, so everything goes from mouth to mouth, and he, he doesn't have to answer. If it's a shliach in somewhere, so they just write reports and they get answers from time to time. But here, I was here working under the Rebbe with his instructions. On every footstep, I got the instruction how to do and what to do, and everything is b'ksav because I didn't go into the Rebbe to speak to him. So therefore, it happens that for the fifteen years that I was working by the Rebbe for, w- under his instructions, it was everything written in instructions, writing instructions, how to do every little detail. If it is how to do the catalog in the library, or if it's in the Yagdal Teyreh, or it's other projects that he ins- he instructed me to do.

40:22 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. Okay. So you're talking about Tav Shin Mem. You finished the cataloging of the, of the, of the li- of the library, right?

40:31 Speaker 1 So I wrote to the Rebbe that we just finished the catalog.

40:36 Speaker 2 So all those, those other people that were helping you were let go?

40:39 Speaker 1 Some stayed because we still needed new books coming in. Mainly stayed with me, Reb Itzchok Wilhelm, that he was working for me all the time, and he continued working in the library till today. But when I wrote him that I finished the catalog, that we finished the catalog, he right away had to find other occupation for me in addition to Yagdal Teyreh editing every month. So the Rebbe writes me, "Venigeil der avedes a kedosh delay." Regarding the holy work that you are doing in the near future would be to prepare a volume of short ma'amarim of the Alter Rebbe, and in the end should be his letters that he wrote. The short ma'amarim was because in the early years, the Alter Rebbe used to say short ma'amarim, and then he started saying longer ma'amarim. So I should prepare a volume of ma- ma'amarim hak'tzarim, the short ma'amarim.

41:49 Speaker 2 Weren't there other people working on the Ksavim of the Rabbeim?

41:53 Speaker 1 That's, that they did. They started in Tav Shin Lamed Ches. It was mainly the, uh, Reb Zisel, uh, Baron Chaitrik, Reb Zisel Pekarsky, and Reb Eliyahu Matasov and Gavril Shapiro. They were working on it. But they wasn't working on the short ma'amarim.

42:14 Speaker 2 I see.

42:14 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe wanted to give me a project.

42:16 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

42:16 Speaker 1 So he gave me this project. So I responded, "If letters in the end, and the letters itself is enough for a volume." So he sa- so he wrote to me, "So then add to it also the michtavim of the Tzemach Rebbe, Tzem-- uh, Mitteler Rebbe and the Rebbe Tzemach Tzedek, and prepare one volume from the letters of these three." I was working on it a whole year of Tav Shin Mem till I finished preparing it, was already Cheshvan Elul. In Cheshvan El-- uh, Cheshvan Ov, in middle of Cheshvan Ov, there is a Yahri Kaleh that, uh, is Lekovet Chof Ov in the Knesser El. So I finished it. I made a copy of it. I ga-- hand-- I gave it in to the Rebbe, and I left to the Yah- Yahri Kaleh. A day later- The Rebbe writes, "Tu B'Av, you should have special efforts to finish it up with the mafteachas and everything, and set it in print and print it, and bind it in a way that people should be able to learn the Sefer already Chai Elul." So for one month, he gave me all this to do. So Rabbi Leib Groner told the Rebbe, but he just left to Yahrikala to Gan Yisroel. So the Rebbe says, "If he went to Yahrikala, he should stay there till after Yahrikala, and then he should come back. He should do, uh, ef- efforts to try to finish it for Chai Elul." So I right away called up my coworker, Rabbi Itzhak Villelo, and

44:05 Speaker 1 I told him where the original lay, and he should give it away right away to print. They should send it in print, and he should b- start being magiya. And when I come after Yud Shevat, after, uh, Yahrikala, I right away started working on it. And when they sent it, I was m- looking it over, and then correcting and adding gemara, and then the mafteachas. And it was very hard, and there was probably in that month of between Cha- uh, uh, yeah, Tu B'Av till the middle of Elul, I got tens of re- responses from the Rebbe with instructions and what to add and how to do. But actually, after all efforts, we've succeeded. It was published, printed in the day before Chai Elul. And in middle of it, we had to get some more additions that the Rebbe said wanted. So we had to go to tell the printer to wait, and w- we went to, from New Jersey to tell the person that he had some material, and he went to his house, and he got it, and he went back, and they printed it as the Rebbe wanted. And for Chai Elul, it was bound and ready.

45:29 Speaker 2 That's how, that's how Igros Kodesh was born.

45:32 Speaker 1 Yes. But then the Avi... The, uh, Mayim Purim wasn't done yet. So then the Rebbe looked at it between Chai Elul and Rosh Hashanah, even it's a busy time, but he looked it over in those days. And for the next day, in Temida, he wrote to me a letter, uh, uh, a letter that, "Since you're so succe- uh, successful in editing it fast and good, so now is the time. Araim vafenzich. Devote yourself to edit the Sefer of Mayim Purim of the Alter Rebbe as we spoke then." So I started right away, and there was so many instructions how to do it, how to judge what is so long, what is short, and how to set it, and I was working on it for the whole winter of Tof Shin Lamed, uh, Tof Shin Mem Alef till the end of the winter. In the end of the winter, it was published, and the Rebbe sent me a few things, more letters and more Mayim Purim, and he said, "Prepare a Hashlomah as a kuntres befne atzmi." So I wrote to the Rebbe, "The letters have only a few pages, so it will be a very short kuntres. Maybe we should add the Igros of the Rebbe Maharash, so then it will be at least a little kuntres."

47:11 Speaker 2 So one second, so there's the Alter Rebbe, the Mitteler Rebbe. Tzemach Tzedek is something different?

47:16 Speaker 1 No, Alter Rebbe, Mitteler, Tzemach Tzedek was together.

47:18 Speaker 2 Oh, that was together. Okay, then. So then-

47:19 Speaker 1 But now it's the Hashlomis of the Miluim, a few pages-

47:24 Speaker 2 And the Maharash

47:24 Speaker 1 ... and the letters of the Rebbe Maharash. So that was published over the summer.

47:30 Speaker 2 Mm. Okay, so then goes-- Then you continued with the-

47:36 Speaker 1 Then we continued the, the letters of the other Rebbeim. He told me to. So he-- I started with the Rebbe Rashab, and when I got two hundred and thirty letters, I wrote to him that I g- that's what I found, and, uh, I'll start editing it. So the Rebbe said-- wrote to me, "Wait, I'll give you more letters, and you should know that not everything is for print. There are private things, personal things that they shouldn't be printed." And he gave me a whole g- package of new letters that I still didn't have. But then he writes to me, "But this is just a preparation because mainly I want to give out now the letters of the Friediker Rebbe. And for that, you need somebody to help you."

48:38 Speaker 2 Because it's so much.

48:39 Speaker 1 Because it's so much, and it's a lot of work. But it should be someone that is Shemer Sod, that is not going to tell anyone what he sees in the letters.

48:53 Speaker 2 Mm.

48:53 Speaker 1 So I took then... I wrote Rebbe, "I'll... Then I'll devote for that Itzhak Villelon, that he would work with me." So the Rebbe okayed it. And then he writes to me, "Okay, but a- after Tishri B'Av, I'll bring you more." I didn't know what that means. Why after Tishri B'Av? And why more? But the next day after Tishri B'Av, he comes from home with two large boxes, folders like this, with hundreds and hundreds of letters of the Friediker Rebbe. And he gave it to me, and he says-- he writes to me, "Obviously, not everything is to, to be printed. There are private things or things that are related to machlikas, so they should be omitted. But start working on that." The-- How, how did he have these two boxes? So when he was in France, in Paris, and the Rebbe was in Atvotsk-

50:06 Speaker 2 Friediker Rebbe

50:06 Speaker 1 ... Friediker Rebbe, he instructed the maskirim that whenever one of my letters that I write, you see it, a techen dike letter with a special subject, make another copy of it and send one copy to the Rebbe in Paris. And from that, the Rebbe prepared all the letters in the Contracem of the Memoriam of the Friedike Rebbe. There would be sometimes letters that Rebbe added, and in the K- uh, Kevitz Atomim, the Rebbe added, edited and added letters, and he also gave out some Kevtzim, Kevitz Mixtovim about Tilim and about-

50:48 Speaker 2 All from there?

50:49 Speaker 1 All what Rebbe selected and Rebbe edited, and he gave it in-

50:54 Speaker 2 And Rebbe brought it with him from, from Europe?

50:56 Speaker 1 And then these whole two boxes he brought with him when he fled from France occupied by the Nazis. So he brought it with him, and he held it in his house all the years, and that's what he wrote to me. "I'll bring you more." Uh, um, which Tisha B'Av he probably wanted to look it over first before he gives it to me. And next, uh, after Tisha B'Av, he gave it to me. But he told me to start working with the Rebbe Rashab's letters. But I should know that this is a preparation for the Friedike Rebbe's letters. So, and then he says, from the Rebbe Rashab, you also, you'll see, you'll take out all personal items. So I prepared two volumes, and I gave it in before printing. So when I gave it in, the Rebbe writes, "It looks like after you took out a lot of letters, still there are personal things left. So go over it again and see to take out everything that is personal, that is not for publishing or what's Machnekes." So therefore, there was a lot of things about Hagadas Scroll and other subjects.

52:13 Speaker 2 You asked about that specifically, about Hagadas Scroll?

52:15 Speaker 1 No, he, he wrote to me that there are still-

52:18 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm

52:18 Speaker 1 ... things that, that you have to take out. So I went over it again. I took out a lot of pa- pieces again, and then I edited it and gave it to print. And then I started the Friedike Rebbe's letters.

52:32 Speaker 2 And most of the Friedike Rebbe's letters, you had the, you had them in the library, and Chaim Lieberman had them.

52:38 Speaker 1 Yes. Uh, Chaim, I got it from Chaim Lieberman. And the Teichen Dike, the more Teichen Dike is from what the Rebbe he brought me from his house. Uh, w- uh, it was, it was, uh, several years, and I edited them, whatever I got then, in 10 volumes.

52:59 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

53:00 Speaker 1 By the 10th volume, it-- When I gave it in, he gave it out to print it, and then he writes to me, "Since it's the 10th volume, which is ending the period of the years of the Friedike Rebbe, so maybe in the end of the volume ga-- uh, uh, add the documents that are related to the work of the Friedike Rebbe and Chabad in Russia." So I wrote to the Rebbe, "If that's the case, then there is enough cheimer in the library for the work of the Friedike Rebbe and Chabad in Russia for a whole volume." So he said then, "Then prepare the volume of-- for, of the history of Chabad in Russia, in Soviet Russia." But-

53:55 Speaker 2 So this is a different project?

53:56 Speaker 1 Yes.

53:57 Speaker 2 Separate.

53:57 Speaker 1 After I got finished the f- 10 volumes, so start that. But don't print it. Just prepare it, because it's not time yet to print anything about the history of Chabad in Russia, because there are still people, and the government could harm them. So therefore, only prepare them. Don't print it. So I prepared it, and a few years later, I asked, "Is it already time?" So he wrote, "No, there is still persecution in some cities there, so therefore time didn't come. Wait." Five years later, in Tov Shin Mem Tes, he wrote to me I should publish it.

54:43 Speaker 2 That's Tell us Chabad, uh-

54:45 Speaker 1 In Ru- in Soviet Russia.

54:46 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

54:48 Speaker 1 And that was the beginning because the Rebbe wanted also Tell us Chabad in United States. But this work he gave to Kunstler. He was a writer and a researcher and writing in Kirhos for different-

55:06 Speaker 2 He was working with Kas for years, right?

55:08 Speaker 1 Yes. And he told him to prepare some, a book like that. So he started preparing, but then he saw it's too much for him, and he wouldn't be able to do it. So he came in to me, and he tells me, "Whatever I collected, take. I'm not capable of doing it." So I asked the Rebbe if I should do an h- history of Chabad in States also. So he asked why Kunstler doesn't do it. So I wrote to him, and then he said, "Do it." So I start working on the Tell Chabad, the history of Chabad in the States. So then I asked him, "There is so much material about the history of Chabad in Israel. Should I do this too?" He okayed this too. So then I worked on these three volumes. They all came out in Tov Shin Mem Ches Tes.

55:59 Speaker 2 Then after Ikrimot HaMos you did another one, right?

56:02 Speaker 1 That's already after, but we are speaking now what the Rebbe told me. So the Rebbe told me about these three volumes

56:09 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm. That's a whole nother project that be- that happened through the Igres.

56:13 Speaker 1 But it came, came as a continuation because in every volume of the Igres, the Rebbe wanted me to give a introduction with a summary of the work of Ch- of the Frierdiker Rebbe in that period.

56:29 Speaker 2 The mauve?

56:30 Speaker 1 So, yeah, mauve. So in the first volume, it was the period of the very harsh period in Soviet Russia. So I wrote about the help of Joint to the work. So when I gave it in to the Rebbe, he says, "Don't emphasize the work of Joint, because Joint is still helping the work of Chabad in Russia, and it could harm if they see."

56:59 Speaker 2 Hmm.

56:59 Speaker 1 "So don't-- Leave the history, but don't emphasize the help of work of Joint." But then there was also some history about the yeshivas underground in those years. So this he told me to add in, and there was a yeshiva here and a yeshiva there, so add, uh, the history of that. So I added all of this in the volume, in the mauve to the first volume. So that work with all the mauveis gave me the material to prepare the history of Chabad in Soviet Russia, because I had it from parts of the letters and parts that, of the material that went into the mauve and other material. So that's how these three volumes came out, tell us Chabad in Soviet Russia, in the United States, and in Israel.

58:00 Speaker 2 Okay. So now we get to, because of this, the Igres Kodesh of the Rebbe, that, that's the next step, right?

58:13 Speaker 1 I never thought that I will have to be occupied with the Rebbe's letters, because the Rebbe's letters was always published as a hisoffer to every Likutei Sichos. There was Rebbe's letters.

58:34 Speaker 2 Selections of letters.

58:35 Speaker 1 Selections of letters. And I thought after I finished from the Alter Rebbe till the Frierdiker Rebbe, my job on the Igres is over, fulfilled. But then in the middle of Adar, 57MM, the Rebbe g- sends me a package of copies of letters of the Rebbe from the archive of the Maskiras, the Hetter of Maskiras of the letters that he sent out. And he writes to me, "See it. Look what from it is capable to be printed and how we should do it, and write to me what you think." I was shocked when I got it, and I didn't know, because I didn't know where these copies is from and what happened to the continuation of the letters that is always being published in the Likutei Sichos. So I right away went up to the Vaad L'hafetz Sichos. I sat with Nachmesh Shapiro and Leibel Oltyan, and I asked them, "Do you know what happened here?" So they were shocked, and they told me, "Yes, we know exactly what happened here. We asked the Maskir, Rabbi Sholom Mendel Simpson, who was in charge on the archive of the letters of Maskiras, that he should give them letters to publish in the next volume of Likutei Sichos, and he prepared a whole bag of letters, and he gave it in to the Rebbe to show him before he gives it to us. And the Rebbe, when he got the package, rather than giving it to us, he gives it to you. You should publish it. That's what

1:00:39 Speaker 1 happened." But they didn't know anything more than that. So I still wasn't comfortable that I understand correctly. And I wrote back to the Rebbe about publishing these letters. There is two options. One is to continue publishing it as a addition to the volumes of Likutei Sichos, and one of them is to publish in separate volumes and in the set of the Igres Kodesh of the Rebbe.

1:01:08 Speaker 2 So you were, you were clarifying-

1:01:10 Speaker 1 Yes

1:01:10 Speaker 2 ... what the

1:01:11 Speaker 1 There's two-- So I wanted to know which the correct one, what the Rebbe means. So the Rebbe crossed out the editing, uh, publishing it in Likutei Sichos, and he wrote that I should give it out, edit it and print it in the Sefer, in the set of Sefer of Igres Kodesh. So I asked then, "Till now, it w- it, it was according to subjects, so it's not an order. But maybe in the older Rebbeim it was on the order of the years, so maybe sh- I should do it here also like that, so it will be more mesuder." So he said, "Yes." And he ordered the letters of the archive the-- till he became Rebbe in 5711. Till 5-- The letters till 5711 was in a box in his secret room. Hidden somewhere, locked somewhere. From Tov Shin Yud Alef and on, it was in the archives of the Maskiras that Reb Sholom Mendle Simpson was in charge. So he told Reb Levi Gunner to find that box, and to give me the box. I should start working with it. So that's what happened, and that's how I started. But when in ad- other-- in addition to that, the Rebbe writes me, "Now we are in before Pesach." But Pesach is a period, period of repose, fast working. "So try to work fast. It should be able to be very fast, like the work for Pesach." So I had to work very fast with nothing else in my mind, not sleeping, not eating, working constantly,

1:03:12 Speaker 1 because I had one month from Purim till before Pesach, and I wanted to give it out for Yud Alef Nisan, to work on it, make the mafteachas. And I wrote to him, "If mafteachas and if maaha'ores, it's, it could be a lengthy work. So unless I do the minimum of the ha'ores and the minimum of mafteachas, and then I'll be able to do it." So he says, "Make the minimum of everything. It should be before Pesach." So that's what I did, and then it came out before Yud-- uh, before Yud Alef Nisan. And right away he said, "Work on the second volume, and it should be very fast. It should be f- ready for Shavuot." And he continue hurrying very much every volume in a non-normal, no- not humane way that it should be easy. So for the next year, I had no day and no night continuously working on the Igres Kodesh.

1:04:19 Speaker 3 Yeah. So the first few volumes came out very quickly.

1:04:23 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:04:26 Speaker 3 Uh-huh. So the whole idea of, uh, of the Igres, that was, uh, Mamash from the Rebbe?

1:04:33 Speaker 1 Not only Mamash from the Rebbe, was, was by me mufrach. I didn't even think in that direction, but that's what the Rebbe wanted.

1:04:43 Speaker 3 Okay. Much has been said about the fact that, uh, the Rebbe asked the Igres to be published. You know, the, th- those that, uh, that are learning the Igres, the direction that you get, the Rebbe-- apparently, the Rebbe asked if there's, uh, shiarim in it. You're-- you probably heard this.

1:05:05 Speaker 1 Obviously, I was-- I heard it, and I wasn't involved in that part.

1:05:09 Speaker 3 Yeah. Okay. So this is Mem Zayin.

1:05:14 Speaker 1 Till Tov Shin Nun. Why Tov Shin Nun? Because early Tov Shin Nun Alef, the Rebbe sent me together with a group to Russia.

1:05:27 Speaker 3 So-

1:05:28 Speaker 1 So I was-- I-- when I was there for a year and a half, I wasn't working on the Igres.

1:05:33 Speaker 3 Igres.

1:05:34 Speaker 1 And what was after I came back, and after Chof Zayin other, that's already a different period.

1:05:42 Speaker 3 Right. And you continued the Igres. Yeah. Among Chassidim is brought to you by Chassidus Der Her. We live in a chaotic world, a world where for us Chassidim, as they say, "Nu, lo ra'inu." We do not have the ability to hear and see the Rebbe on a daily basis. Yet we know that the Rebbe is very much with us, and Chassidus Chabad is alive and thriving more than ever before. One needs to only tap into it. Chassidus Der Her provides you and your family with the tools necessary to tap into all of this, whether it's the monthly magazine, the way it all began, whether it's Der Her books, Der Her online content, and so much more. Men, women, and children throughout the world benefit and use these tools on a daily basis, whether it's children enjoying the children's magazine that comes along with the regular Der Her or enjoying the children's podcast, whether it's bachurim in yeshivas receiving the Der Her, whether it's girls in high schools enjoying Der Her Club in their local high school. People all over the world and from all walks of life enjoy and utilize these tools and take advantage of it. If you're not already subscribed to Der Her monthly magazine, do so today at derher.org. That's D-E-R-H-E-R.org. Der Her is a dynamic organization which is committed to continue providing these tools, grow on a constant basis, and do all that we can to help this effort. Baruch Hashem, it takes a lot of resources and finances to make

1:07:33 Speaker 3 this all happen. You can be part of Der Her through your financial support as well through visiting our website, derher.org, or through contacting us to setting up a meeting. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the podcast. So let's go back to Mem Zayin. So obviously Mem Zayin, or started earlier, Mem He, is the whole story of the Sefarim, which I know that you were involved in the thick and thin of the, the Parshas Sefarim. So how did that begin-

1:08:08 Speaker 1 When-

1:08:08 Speaker 3 ... gezalah, and what-- and, and your involvement?

1:08:10 Speaker 1 When, when, uh, the Rebbe first spoke about it, the public was 18 Tammuz And then in continuation to that, they decided to take it to court. And when he dis- Rabbi Kirsch discussed with the Rebbe about taking it to court, the Rebbe said that preparing the documents that are related to this court case, it should be on my responsibility. So then that was in beginning of Of in Mem Hei. So then I and my coworker, Rabbi Tzvi Willem, stopped all working, and we worked on several months on all archives to go through everything, tens of thousands of papers, and to find things that are related to this subject.

1:09:11 Speaker 4 So what were you looking for?

1:09:13 Speaker 1 Subject that how the, the library started and if it was personal property or was Chabad property. When he made the magbis that people should be sending seforim-

1:09:29 Speaker 4 The Friediker Rebbe?

1:09:30 Speaker 1 The Friediker Rebbe to the library, he never said to me, "Send me seforim." He said, "Send seforim to the Lubavitch Library." So that showed that it's a property of Lubavitch. It's not a private, private property. If he would take it to private, it would be not, uh, correct from him because he never asked them to give private donations to him, only to the Chabad Library and things like that. So we working for a few months, and also we had to prepare the lawyers that didn't have any background on the subject and on the history of Chabad. So all the lawyers, I sat with them. First I sat se- together with Rabbi Willem and Nat Lewin, the lawyer, sat in my office for several hours to give him the background of the whole story. And then he had questions, and we corresponded in faxes for next few months. So many faxes of, uh, answers and details. And then Ga- Rabbi, uh, Da- uh, the lawyer Shestak got involved. So he first came to meet me in my office, and then he said he w- must, in order to learn the whole subject, he need m- he needs me to come down to Philadelphia and to sit with him a whole day. So that's what I did. And then they started preparing the depositions. So they asked me that I should sit with them by the depositions to help them to know what to ask and to, and understand the answers and what, what else. So I-

1:11:21 Speaker 4 You sat through all the depositions?

1:11:23 Speaker 1 All the p- depositions of first Chaim Lieberman three days, and then with Barry, Barry Gourary for three days. I sat with him, and then I had my own depositions and all complications. And then after we finished with the depositions, started, he started getting witnesses to be on the witness stand in the court. So they also didn't kn- know enough about the history, so I had to sit with each one of the witnesses for several hours.

1:11:58 Speaker 4 Beforehand?

1:11:59 Speaker 1 Beforehand. They shouldn't understand exactly what the details are, and they should be able to answer all the questions of both, both lawyers on the stand. And then I myself had to go on the, on the stand. When the court started, the lawyers asked me to stay there with them because whenever comes a subject they don't know, they will ask me and I-- they will never know how to continue. So their lawyers complained that I'm not allowed to be in court since I'm a witness. So there was a whole discussion. Our lawyer said they must have me there because I'm not a regular witness. I'm a extra expert witness, so they need me there. Whenever there are complications, they discuss it with me. So the judge, uh, ruled that I, I should stay in the court case with the lawyers the whole three weeks of the court case. And then when I went up myself to the witness stand, first our lawyers question me and then their lawyers. So that's how I was continu- continuously involved with that. After the court case, they-- each lawyer needed to write a whole summary and how they understand the whole results. So they needed me also. The whatever they wrote, they wrote, they sent to me in a fax, and I wrote, wrote corrections and explanations, and I wrote to them back in a fax. There wasn't yet, uh, emails yet. So I was completely involved with that for that much, yes, uh, for, for next few months till

1:13:54 Speaker 1 their, their, their, uh, appeal and went to the federal court and appellate court, to the appellate court here in New York. So they had to be prepared, so I was completely involved with them on that. And even after, after the, the verdict that the all, all seforim belong to us, so they, they, uh, needed a lot of details and, uh, the, of, of, uh, and, uh, about buying back the books. So they, they needed me to be involved with that to prepare everything. So much that when in Tov Sheme Zayin, after the ruling, the Rebbe told me to start working on the letters, and I prepared the first volume. So when he wanted to hurry, hurry me for the second volume, I wrote that the lawyers want me to prepare a whole set of documents and material for the court. So maybe I should leave the second volume and-- or I should leave the, the preparing the documents. So the Rebbe answered me, "No, you can't leave them. Work on both together."

1:15:12 Speaker 4 Hmm.

1:15:12 Speaker 1 And, and that's what I did. So I was, yes, I was-

1:15:15 Speaker 4 Sounds like the Rebbe's-

1:15:17 Speaker 1 Yes

1:15:17 Speaker 4 ... style.

1:15:17 Speaker 1 Yes. And so that's the, how I was involved in the court case, yes.

1:15:22 Speaker 4 And also when they seized the, the Sforim from New Jersey, I think you, you also went to, to check it, right?

1:15:31 Speaker 1 I, I had to go twice. First when, before the court case, the court wanted to know exactly, to pull a lin that he wouldn't be able to take any books from there. So I had to go. I went with, uh, uh, Rabbi Wilhelm together to, to the storage house and to see, make a list, and to ex- to give a rebe- a, a report to the court what there is. And then there was luck that he didn't have the approach to it. And then after the verdict, and after the verdict of the, of the appellate court, when we went to take it, we went there to take the books. So then together with me and Rabbi Wilhelm went also Rabbi Shemtov and Rabbi Krinsky. So we had to go back there again.

1:16:28 Speaker 4 Okay. And were you also, were you also by the depositions that the, uh, opposition was conducting?

1:16:34 Speaker 1 No, only the ones that I mentioned.

1:16:37 Speaker 4 That-

1:16:37 Speaker 1 They didn't need me

1:16:38 Speaker 4 ... our side did.

1:16:39 Speaker 1 The, the our side and, uh, what our side gave the depositions to their side-

1:16:44 Speaker 4 Right

1:16:44 Speaker 1 ... which is Lieberman and Guroff. But not all the others, they didn't need me for that. So they only asked me to come with them for those that they needed me to.

1:16:56 Speaker 4 Okay. And what was your, um, interactions with the Rebbe regarding the, the Sforim case?

1:17:02 Speaker 1 In, in, in, um, in the beginning, I just did what he told me through Rabbi Krinsky. But then when after Rabbi Chaim Lieberman's deposition, and I had my explanation if the, the cour- the approach of the lawyers to him is correct or not correct, so I wrote, I discussed it with the Rebbetzin that she was involved, and then I wrote it to the Rebbe too.

1:17:32 Speaker 4 One second. You went to the Rebbetzin to discuss this issue?

1:17:35 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:17:35 Speaker 4 So what was, what was the-

1:17:37 Speaker 1 She wanted to know exactly how it was.

1:17:39 Speaker 4 With Chaim Lieberman?

1:17:40 Speaker 1 Yes. So I, w- I, I went to the library on Shab- on the Shabbos, Friday night, when she was there, to give her a report from whatever happened. And then the Rebbe wrote me-

1:17:54 Speaker 4 But what, she, she had input in it or she just wanted the report?

1:17:57 Speaker 1 No, just wanted to report.

1:17:59 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

1:17:59 Speaker 1 And she probably reported to the Rebbe. And, uh, it's possible the Rebbe didn't like my view on things. So then the Rebbe wrote me a whole letter of... I had a difficulty because I was very much involved with Rabbi Chaim Lieberman in the work of the library, and here I'm standing in- against him, and the Rebbe want to emphasize that, that. So he wrote me a whole long answer about how it's with, uh, Rabbi Chaim Lieberman, and he even told me to discuss it with rabbonim how I should deal with it. That was in the beginning before the court case.

1:18:50 Speaker 4 And it's the, the... I think there's two of them, two long-

1:18:52 Speaker 1 Two of them

1:18:53 Speaker 4 Yeah, they're both printed in-

1:18:54 Speaker 1 Everything is about the subject

1:18:54 Speaker 4 It's printed in, uh-

1:18:55 Speaker 1 But then there was-

1:18:56 Speaker 4 I think it's like this

1:18:56 Speaker 1 ... then there was, uh, several more things. One of them is that when the whole sub- subject started, I pr- wrote a whole article in Kfar Ha- for Kfar Chabad to explain what I just mentioned before, that the Rebbe never built for himself. It was, he made the collections for the, for the, for Chabad, and I wrote a article. So the Reb, when I, before I send it to Kfar Chabad, I send it in a copy to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe said, he wrote, "Article one," which means continue in that. And the second thing was, before the court case started, the Rebbe was very tense. Unbelievable. And the lawyers told me that. And they told me, "Since you prepared everything and everything is so clear, and we feel we are certain going to win, write to the Rebbe the whole thing how you view it. The Rebbe should feel confident that we're going to win." So a few days before the court case started, I wrote a whole letter with all the details to the Rebbe just to explain. I didn't expect a answer on that, but they wanted me to calm down the Rebbe with the feeling that we feel that we are going to win.

1:20:32 Speaker 4 Hmm. And, uh, we did win.

1:20:37 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:20:38 Speaker 4 With

1:20:39 Speaker 1 Yes, did But that was the final, final thing was a year later in which was over a year after the court case ended in beginning of Teves of

1:20:58 Speaker 4 Right. And then Sforim only, there was an appeal, and the Sforim only came back-

1:21:01 Speaker 1 Yes

1:21:01 Speaker 4 ... basically-

1:21:02 Speaker 1 And the, and, and the f- the appeal was in the summer of- Tov Shebav Zion. And the court case, the hearing was in early Tov Shebav Ches. And then there was the verdict of returning all the Sforim, and we went there to pick it up, as mentioned before, in Beis Kislev Tov Shebav Ches.

1:21:26 Speaker 4 And when the Sforim are coming off the van, only a few people are, are t- are actually touching them.

1:21:32 Speaker 1 Yeah, I wasn't involved in that. I didn't even know when I, when I was there. I-- there was telephones, constant telephones between Rabbi Krinsky and Rabbi Shemtov and here, Agudas Chabad, and I didn't even know what the subject was. The subject was that the Rebbe said they should make it bezina without a pirsum, because, uh, Luchas HaShemas was the pirsum, and it didn't succeed. And Luchas Nes was without a pirsum, and therefore-

1:22:04 Speaker 4 I think the emet of the Rebbe said that mamash. I think that's what Chassidim explained.

1:22:08 Speaker 1 I was told then the Rebbe said it-

1:22:11 Speaker 4 Okay

1:22:11 Speaker 1 ... the, in the, all, in the hirhur he gave to, to Agudas Chabad. But when he came out and he saw the whole crowd is waiting outside for the van to come with the Sforim, he starts screaming on them. He w- didn't like that. He said, "Why don't you go back to learn? And that would help more." So that was then. So when the S- Sforim came back, nobody was outside, only the few people. Me and Rabbi Vilam was sitting in the van that brought the Sforim, and the car that came with us had in it Rabbi Krinsky and Rabbi Shemtov.

1:22:54 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, there was something I wanted to ask you, but I'm forgetting, so I'll ask you something else. You mentioned the Rebbetsin. There were, there were other times that you, um, spoke to the Rebbetsin?

1:23:09 Speaker 1 Yes, I spoke to the Rebbetsin several times, and I discussed that specifically in the Gem, my, my stories. And it was about li-- One of them was about the library, and one of them was about other subjects. But, uh, uh, it, uh, I, it's, I don't know if you w- how much you want me to go into that.

1:23:33 Speaker 4 Yeah, you go into it.

1:23:33 Speaker 1 Because that's not subject. The, the, the, the, the next subject, uh, is where we are up to is when the Sforim came back, and Heh Teves was Shabbos. So the Rebbe said on Shabbos that the, this day, Heh Teves, did Anotzak, is nikvah, that every year when this day comes, it's a Yom HaGolel for everything that is related to Sforim and to the library. So therefore, we should decide in this day that everyone that has Sforim that, uh, could be part of the library, they should donate it to the library and to enlarge the library. That was on Shabbos. And on next day, on Sunday, the Rebbe wrote to me a who- whole long answer with saying that, "Since you're going to be busy because you're going to Russia for the Sforim, so get someone to be involved, to be involved themself with the people that are giving, g- coming, bringing in more Sforim to the library." Because in the, two weeks later, I went with a mission, on a mission of finding the Sforim of our Rebbeim in Russia, together with Rabbi Kunin and Rabbi Mindel. So these two weeks was very, very tense two weeks that I had to work with the project of preparing the library for the Sf- uh, receiving the, the bringing Sforim to the library and preparing myself for the trip for the, to Russia. And there was a lot of questions on each, on each s- of the two subjects, and the Rebbe answered me dozens of answers

1:25:33 Speaker 1 in that two weeks in both subjects.

1:25:36 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm. So I wanna speak about the, the shlichus to Russia. Um, can I ask you a few quest- more questions about the library?

1:25:48 Speaker 1 Yes, feel free.

1:25:49 Speaker 4 Okay. So first of all, the things with the Rebbetsin you wanna share?

1:25:52 Speaker 1 If you want me, I'll, uh, I'll, I'll tell them. The f- story about the library was that in the Rebbe became, after the heart attack in Tov Shenlamat Ches, he, he, a few years later, two years, three years later, it became difficult for him to walk home from 770 on Shabbos. In the weekdays, they would bring him with a car. But Shabbos, he would walk by foot. And walking the f- several blocks back and forth every Shabbos a few times was difficult for him. So they decided to prepare for him apartment in the library. He should stay on Shabbos and Yom Tov. How could they prepare? So in one of the s- rooms where it was filled with Sforim, they put in a dining room table and chairs, and that became the dining room. In one of the room that was full with Sforim, put in two beds, and that became the bedroom. So it was very difficult. So in-- It was difficult for- For them was difficult for us because whenever we go to take seforim from the bedroom and the dining room, it's not comfortable for me or for the librarians to go in to a room where you see the Rebbe's beds and the Rebbetzin's bed. So was not comfortable for anyone. So there was a decision to take out all the seforim from there and install the bookcases on the second floor of the library, and there it should be only a dining room and a bedroom. But they knew that

1:27:47 Speaker 1 if they ask the Rebbe, the Rebbe would say, "What you need? It's for us, it's okay." So they decided that one Shabbos after the Rebbe went back home, the Rebbetzin went back home, so they start working right away. They took, they took everything apart, and we put-- we t- took the seforim upstairs to the second floor, and they installed the rooms. They should be a normal bedroom and dining room. That's how till Friday nothing was told to the Rebbe or the Rebbetzin. When the Rebbe came on Friday and he saw what was done, he was upset why this is done. That the Rebbe used-- the Rebbetzin used to come right before Shabbos, so the Rebbe, the Rebbe used to come in to the library when the Rebbetzin used to light candles when Shabbos comes in, and he told her his displeasure. So he went back to his room. She sent the boy, uh, eunuch that was helping there to go to my house and to told, to tell me it's emergency. She has to talk to me right away. I understood right away what it's all about. So I went right to the library, and she told me, "Why did you have to do it? We are comfortable without it." So I told them, "We didn't do it for you. It was for us. It's not comfortable for us to go in constantly in the room, so we decided for us it easier if we do it." So she still wasn't-- she told everything to

1:29:31 Speaker 1 the Rebbe, and the Rebbe still wasn't satisfied of that. So then he wrote a letter of displeasure, and I... He-- the Rebbetzin told me, "Write everything to the Rebbe." I wrote him everything as I spoke, and then the Rebbe answered me, "If that is correct, then it's okay." In other words, he was skeptical-

1:29:57 Speaker 4 That's true

1:29:58 Speaker 1 ... if, if it's true. But he, so he wrote-- he didn't wanna tell me it's not true. So he says, "If everything that you write is correct, then it's okay."

1:30:09 Speaker 4 Okay. And then later there was a, like, another apartment built, right?

1:30:14 Speaker 1 If, uh, uh, uh, still he didn't have a living room. So, um, uh, that was in tav shin mem beis. So two years later-

1:30:25 Speaker 4 The story is in mem beis?

1:30:26 Speaker 1 Yes. Two years later, tav shin mem daled, they added a room in the back of the library, in the backyard of the library. Then there was the k- the-

1:30:34 Speaker 4 Tashlich

1:30:35 Speaker 1 ... Tashlich. They took out from there the Tashlich. They put it in, in, in, on the side, and over there they dug up, and they built two floors. The bottom floor was addition for the library, for the storage, and the second floor was, the top floor was for a living room for the Rebbe.

1:30:54 Speaker 4 That's the room where the Rebbe met Martha Leighow?

1:30:56 Speaker 1 Correct.

1:30:58 Speaker 4 So that was the living room, and then there's a d- um, a dining room and a bedroom.

1:31:02 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:31:03 Speaker 4 So the dining room and bedroom was not redundant then?

1:31:06 Speaker 1 They're not.

1:31:08 Speaker 4 So that was just an addition?

1:31:09 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:31:10 Speaker 4 Okay. And then what were the other times... Another w- you, this is, the Rebbetzin spoke to you about Paris, but what was that about?

1:31:17 Speaker 1 That when the, as I wrote the movie, uh, Nevua Volume, when, as I mentioned before, so when it came to the Volume He, which is the period that what they were came out from Europe and was saved, the Friedrich Rebbe and then the Rebbe and the Rebbetzin. So I looked at the documents and was very fuzzy what they did in Vichy, what they did in, in Marseille, what they did in Portugal, and from Paris. So I decided I'll try it out. So I went in Friday night to the library to the Rebbetzin, and I told her that I have to write, and I don't understand. What was the story? W- Paris, and then Vichy, and then Marseille, and in Portugal. What is the story? So she sat down, and she told me the whole story. When she told me the whole story, I then I wrote it down, and it went in all to the movie. I couldn't write that she told me the story. She wouldn't be comfortable. She was, she was a lady that she didn't like anything to write about her. So I wrote the whole story, but nothing about that she told that to me. Just the story itself. That the Rebbe was in Paris when they came to Paris, the Germans, so he fled to Vichy. But all the trains was full. He couldn't get a place. But he had a paper that he shows that he's a soldier in the P- French army. So with this, he went to,

1:33:00 Speaker 1 on the plane, on the train, until he came to Vichy. It was already the shkiah of Shavuot. So when he came to the train station, they had to take a horse and wagon to take all the stuff we mentioned before, the boxes that you came with. But he had a lot of Kisvei Yad, of Kodesz, and copies, and Seforim that he had with him, several suitcases. He couldn't carry it. So they took a wagon, and they put everything on the wagon. But then the Balagola wanted the Rebbe should also go on the wagon. So the Rebbe says, "No, I'm walking. The Rebbetzin would be on the, on the wagon and go slow, and I'm walking with you." And that's how he walked from the train station till the hotel where they stayed.

1:34:02 Speaker 4 Shvus.

1:34:04 Speaker 1 And the night of the Shvus.

1:34:07 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm. So this is a one-time thing that you went to the Rebbetzin to ask-

1:34:11 Speaker 1 That, that's already a, a few times. Then there was another one that the-- I got in the re- Rebbe's letters, I got a picture of the Rebbe's letter in the early years in Taf Shpe in 1922 that he wrote, and the letter was a long letter to Dragichover, and it looked... We saw it's his handwriting, but he signed with the name of Mordechai Guar ya. So-

1:34:50 Speaker 4 That was a name that, uh, Rabbi Soloveitchik would use, no?

1:34:53 Speaker 1 Later.

1:34:54 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:34:55 Speaker 1 But then there was a Mordechai Guar ya in Nyebepetrovsk-

1:35:01 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm

1:35:02 Speaker 1 ... that his son of Mordechai Guar ya is his son, also called Mordechai Guar ya, and he was here a Rav in Chevrashas. So we know that there was... But who wrote this letter?

1:35:19 Speaker 4 You could tell from the Rebbe's handwriting?

1:35:20 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:35:20 Speaker 4 Yeah.

1:35:21 Speaker 1 So what happened? So I went in then to the Rebbetzin and I asked her if she knows anything about it. Why did he have to change his name? So she heard all the details and she said, "It's very exciting and I also want to know, and the best thing is write to the Rebbe." I... He-- She, he-- she asked the Rebbe, and the Rebbe told her, "Let him write to me and show me." So I wrote to the Rebbe and I asked him, "Was this for because you didn't want in your house your parents should know that you're writing letters to Dragichover, or because of the censor? You're afraid if it they'll say, uh, they'll, they'll see Schnerson, they'll, they'll make a issue of it." So the Rebbe answered me, "No, it's for, for the censor, not for my parents. I w- didn't hide anything from my parents." So that was another time that I, uh, spoke to the Rebbetzin.

1:36:18 Speaker 4 Hmm. Okay. Th- Is that all?

1:36:22 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:36:22 Speaker 4 Okay. Um, and, uh, just interesting to me that the cer... I guess you didn't wanna, you know, kinda ask the Rebbe, "Tell me the whole history," so you went to the Rebbetzin. Interesting. Um, so I'm not gonna-- I'm not going in order, chronological order, but it's like on topics. I wanna... We'll go back to the, to the chronological. You're talking about the library, so maybe let's c- stay on that and talk about the expansion of the library, which happened I think Taf Shenon, right? Is that the right year? Wh- what, what was that about? What ha- what happened then?

1:36:59 Speaker 1 You see, after the Rebbe spoke, after that two weeks that he said that people should bring in their Seforim and collections came into the library-

1:37:09 Speaker 4 So all of a sudden, tons of Sefarim are coming?

1:37:11 Speaker 1 Tons of Sefarim are coming. Until then, the library was packed. There wasn't-

1:37:17 Speaker 4 So, so where was the library? The library was in the basement-

1:37:19 Speaker 1 In seven, six... Ba- basement seven 70 was the Friediker Rebbe's collection, and in seven 66 was the Rebbe's collection.

1:37:26 Speaker 4 On, on two floors?

1:37:28 Speaker 1 On two floors.

1:37:28 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:37:29 Speaker 1 But now for the new books, there was-

1:37:33 Speaker 4 No room

1:37:34 Speaker 1 ... not no room. So I asked the Rebbe, "What should I do?" So he says, "Write to me hatzoes." So I, I wrote hatzoes. I, I should write hatzoes about building. I spoke to the Agudas Chabad, Rabbi Krinsky, and he says, "Just now we are preparing plans to build a big construction building on seven 70."

1:38:04 Speaker 4 A shul?

1:38:06 Speaker 1 Yes, and f- offices in the top, and the first floor on top of the shul would be devoted to the library. So I says, "It's very good." And then the Rebbe came out to the Hanukkah s- uh, Even Hapina, and the Even Hapina was supposed to be for the shul and for the library. But the next day, the Rebbe something didn't like in the plans, and he spoke a sicha that this is a residential area and shouldn't be high buildings.

1:38:37 Speaker 4 It was the next day or it was a while later?

1:38:39 Speaker 1 Uh, uh, two weeks later.

1:38:44 Speaker 4 Okay.

1:38:44 Speaker 1 In the b- In Tishrei Taf Shin-

1:38:46 Speaker 4 In Tishrei, yeah

1:38:47 Speaker 1 ... Mem Tes. This was in Chaya Taf Shin Mem Ches, and this was in Tishrei Taf Shin Mem Tes.

1:38:52 Speaker 4 Hevel.

1:38:55 Speaker 1 So I wrote to the Rebbe, "So what should I do now?" There 10,000 books came in when the Rebbe said that everyone should be g- bring in, and they are all in boxes. We can't even take them out from the boxes. They're in the hallways full with boxes. So the Rebbe said, "Speak to Agudas Chabad about building for the library in the area of seven 70." I spoke to them again, but they didn't have plans, so he tells me, "We have a plan. Since the Rebbe said it shouldn't be such a high, tall building, we're going to build only four or five floors, and the bottom floor is the shul, and the floor on top of that is the library." And I'm going... The Rebbe then was in his house be- because of aveilus. So I'm going, I have appointment with the Rebbe in the Chabad's tavis. I'm going to show him the plans. We're working on the plans, and I hope he'll okay it, and we'll do it. So I'm waiting for that day. And then when he comes back on the next day, he comes back to me very upset, and he says, "I showed the plans to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe looked at all the details of the plans," and he says, "It's good-- It's very nice plan, but don't do it." And he didn't explain himself. So I didn't know what to do. So I wrote again to the Rebbe, "So what should I do?" So the Rebbe wrote to

1:40:35 Speaker 1 me, "Get people to make a Vaad habinyan and build a binyan for the library." So I then took Rabbi Zalman Gurary, alav ha-shalom, and the Bodleian team, Rabbi Shmuel Kusslim and Kunin, together with me. I wrote to the Rebbe if these three is okay to be the Vaad habinyan. The Rebbe said yes. So then we start pr-preparing the plans. So we-- The whole building for the library, we had where Ayshal is now on Kingston, or when Family, Family Dollar is down in the, on the, on Kingston. We're ready to buy that building and do the library. So the Rebbe said no. The Rebbe said it in a sicha. We're dealing now about a subject that is related to me building the library. But this library, the Friediger Rebbe started it in Seven seventy. So it must be in Seven seventy. If there is no place in Seven seventy, so do it in the adjacent building, build up more, and it should b-be considered as Seven seventy because it's connected to Seven seventy. So that's when we started this construction. This construction went through the whole year of Tov Shin Nun till we finished the facade. And Tov Shin Nun Alef, we did the de-details inside.

1:42:05 Speaker 5 So the construction consists of adding a floor-

1:42:09 Speaker 1 Adding a floor-

1:42:10 Speaker 5 Seven sixty-six

1:42:11 Speaker 1 ... in Seven sixty-six, and digging up the whole courtyard-

1:42:15 Speaker 5 Chabad

1:42:15 Speaker 1 ... and, and, and making the storage rooms under it.

1:42:19 Speaker 5 And then also the bridge connecting Seven seventy-

1:42:21 Speaker 1 The, and the bridge connecting because the Rebbe said it should be connected. It should be called as it's in Seven seventy.

1:42:28 Speaker 5 Right. So the library today is, um, under the chaser in the, and in Seven sixty-six, and then now it's also in the next house.

1:42:39 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:42:39 Speaker 5 Which I think the Rebbe-- There was a hatzacha once which the Rebbe did not-

1:42:43 Speaker 1 Then, then we asked if we should buy the building of, uh, Rabbi Meir Ritkin and build there the library. So we spoke to Meir Ritkin and says, Meir Ritkin said that he'll ask the Rebbe. If the Rebbe says so, he'll agree. He wrote to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe told him not to. So that went off the plan.

1:43:04 Speaker 5 Right. Okay. So did the Rebbe then, the Rebbe saw the new construction?

1:43:15 Speaker 1 When the Re-- When the construction was done in Tov Shin Nun, the Rebbe didn't go out to look on the facade. The first time he saw the facade of the building of Seven sixty-six with the three floors was on Rosh Hashanah Tov Shin Nun Alef. The Rosh Hashanah Tov Shin Nun Alef, he went to tashlich in the backyard. And on the way back, he stopped, and he picked up his eyes, and he looked on the building from all the sides.

1:43:43 Speaker 5 And that's the first time the Rebbe saw the bridge also and the-

1:43:45 Speaker 1 Yes

1:43:45 Speaker 5 ... the whole thing.

1:43:46 Speaker 1 And then on the next day, on the siman Dalia, day after Rosh Hashanah, the Rebbe wrote and, and tell the maskiras to tell me I should make pictures of the building as it's now, and I should send it to all donors that donated large sums for bui-- the construction of the library.

1:44:07 Speaker 5 Yeah.

1:44:07 Speaker 1 And that wa-- that's what we did.

1:44:11 Speaker 5 Okay. And I know that the Rebbe went to the library after Chabad Zeiner Rebbe. What was, what was that?

1:44:18 Speaker 1 Yes. It was after Chabad Zeiner Rebbe in Tishrei Tov Shin Nun Daled. The doctors that occupied with him, helping him, making it easier, easier, approached me and told me that they know that the Rebbe was so involved and so much pushing for the construction of the library. Now, after it's all done, that was already later, so we-- then it was already completely finished, not only the facade. So maybe the Rebbe should go to the library, to all the, the rooms, and I should explain them what the rooms are, and that would give the Rebbe a lot of satisfaction. So they devot-- they didn't want people should know about it, so they devi-- decided to do it in one of the nights of Chol HaMoed Succos, two o'clock at night. We went around from two till three o'clock at night. They took him on a chair, and they took him all the details in every room. We came in, I explained what this room is about and what is there. And when he was satisfied, he shaked his head for the sa-satisfaction, and I knew we're ready to go to the next room. If he continued looking around and looking for something, I know that he wants to hear more details. So I continue explaining the more details till he shaked his head to further sa-satisfaction. And then I knew that we have to go to the next room.

1:45:58 Speaker 5 So the Rebbe went into, like, the, the reading room and-

1:46:00 Speaker 1 Reading room and, uh, the, uh, the, the storage rooms, everything. And the exhibition hall, everything he went.

1:46:09 Speaker 5 Exhibition existed already?

1:46:10 Speaker 1 No, not yet.

1:46:11 Speaker 5 Yeah, that room.

1:46:11 Speaker 1 But, but with that room. When we went to bridge, the Rebbe start-- we heard the Bochurim in the sukkah singing. So the Rebbe started looking on the window where the voice of the singing comes and stirring. So I went over to him and told him that downstairs in the sukkah, uh, the Mashpia Rabbi Mendel Futerfas is farbrengen with the Bochurim, and that's what they are singing. So the Rebbe shaked his head with satisfaction, and I understood we have to go to the next room.

1:46:50 Speaker 5 Hmm. And I told you last week that, uh, I was there when this happened, outside in front of 770.

1:46:56 Speaker 1 Yeah, you told me that, uh, after all-- uh, although it was secret, so you're standing in Seven-- Eastern Parkway, and you saw from far, you didn't see it clear, but you saw blur that something is going on-

1:47:10 Speaker 5 Correct

1:47:10 Speaker 1 ... in the bridge.

1:47:11 Speaker 5 And it's also, it's, uh, it's not a clear memory because I was extremely young.

1:47:16 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:47:16 Speaker 5 It's actually the, the first thing that I remember in my life, actually.

1:47:18 Speaker 1 Yes, yes.

1:47:20 Speaker 5 So, um-

1:47:20 Speaker 1 Yes

1:47:20 Speaker 5 ... something like that.

1:47:21 Speaker 1 Yes.

1:47:21 Speaker 5 I didn't even, I didn't even know that it was a thing, 'cause I-- but I remembered it, so I checked it out later in life. Okay. So that's the, that's the, um... So it's interesting that the Rebbe was in every room in library. It's very interesting. Um, but not in, not in the basement.

1:47:37 Speaker 1 In the basement.

1:47:37 Speaker 5 To the-- to every- everything. Wow. Okay, so let's go back to the story of the shluchas. There's two shluchas into Russia. So let's begin with the first one, Taf Shin Mem Ches. What happened? Why? What, when, and where?

1:47:54 Speaker 1 It was to find where is the collection of the Seforim that was in the library of Lubavitch by the Rebbe Rashab and the previous Rebbe.

1:48:07 Speaker 5 Whether it's there.

1:48:08 Speaker 1 Whether it's there. Because it was in Lubavitch, and when the-- in, in the First World War, when the Germans came close to Lubavitch, the Rebbe fled. The Rebbe Rashab with his whole family fled from Lubavitch and settled in Rostov. And the library, they took to a storage house in Moscow. After the war ended and the communists took over, they didn't return the Seforim to the Rebbe. They just took it away from the storage, and they stored it in the library, the public library in Moscow. For some reason, Chaim Lieberman of, you know, when he wrote-- read in the papers, he saw that they took it away from there, and they s- they took it to Kyiv, and then it was destroyed by the Nazis, so nothing was left. But he didn't know for sure, and the Rebbe didn't think that's the case. But we-

1:49:12 Speaker 5 The Rebbe didn't believe that it was destroyed?

1:49:13 Speaker 1 Yes. But he-- we didn't have any way to finding out correct. So in Taf Shin Mem Alef, Purim time, Rab Chaim Lieberman brought to me the whole catalog that was typed up in Lubavitch before fleeing Lubavitch.

1:49:38 Speaker 5 That the previous Rebbe had?

1:49:39 Speaker 1 Yes. I saw the whole catalog, and I felt if we have the whole catalog, we have a way of finding out in the public library in Moscow now if the Seforim are there. So I gave it in to the Rebbe, and I wrote that maybe it's now possible to find out. Few months later, the Rebbe told Reb Shlome Kunin, head shliach of California, and over there, there are two businessmen, Dr. Armand Hammer and Jerry Vaintraub, they're doing a lot of business with the government of Russia. So maybe he could convince them to convince the government in Russia to find the collection and to return it. So he did so. But they responded they find nothing, there is nothing there from Lubavitch collection. So Armand Hammer, I gave a copy to Armand Hammer, and he gave it to the government. "Here you have the whole collection. Find out if the Seforim are there." Went through another year, and they said, "We checked. There's nothing there." Okay. What's next? So Armand Hammer tells them, "Would you permit our experts in Lubavitch to come there to look, to check by themself?" They said okay. They felt they wouldn't let us too much anyways, so we wouldn't find anything. So then the Rebbe decided to send them, uh, uh, an shluchas, myself, Reb Shlome Kunin, and Reb Nissan Mendel, who is his secretary. Reb Nissan Mendel, my and Shlome Kunin's R- Russian is very poor, but Reb Nissan Mendel speaks fluent Russian, so all three of us would go

1:51:47 Speaker 1 together. Yes, but I had to do some homework before we going. So I did, uh, some homework. What was it? I went through the catalog So five and a half thousand titles, so much more volumes. And I selected the most rare old books that are registered. And when I-- we would check now in the catalog in the public library in Moscow if these, if these books are there. If these books are there, we have already a string how to find the whole collection. In the end of Tov Shin Mem Zain, in-- there was a book fair in Moscow, and there was also a table for Lubavitch. And Yosef Friedman went there to stand in the, to be the head of the table of Lubavitch in the book fair. So I spoke to him. I gave him the list of the rare books. I told him, "Without any person, go into the public library to the catalog. Check if these books are there in their collection." He did so, and he found 12 books from this collection are there in the catalog, and they're all in the same department. I took this information, and we went to Russia. We went to Russia two weeks after Hey Teves, Tov Shin Mem Ches, the famous one. And that's what the Rebbe told me, that if you are so much busy now with going to Russia and preparing yourself for this trip with all the documents, where to look and when to look. In Moscow he sent us, and

1:54:03 Speaker 1 in Peterburg he sent us, and we went to Lubavitch, and he went-- sent us to Kyiv and Odessa, a whole story that we're not going into it now. It's not related. But now we want to-- people should bring in books, so you need somebody to be involved with that. So I would prepare myself mainly for Russia, and Rebbetzin Gilam was, uh, occupied mainly with this forum that was brought into the library. We went there. So we wanted to get permission to look in the col- in the storage rooms. So they said, "No, no, no, that you can't." He went to the Arendt Hammer with Reb Yeruchun went to the culture minister, Zaharov, and told him, "If we should check, we have to go look." He says, "No, no, no, only with the catalog." We notify the Rebbe. They don't let us look, and they say only with the catalog. With the catalog, the books itself I can re-re-recognize according to different marks. But from the catalog, I wouldn't be able to. So the Rebbe answered, "Try to go in the way that they are telling you and do whatever you can." Okay. So next morning, we went to meet the librarian, and I said, "You know what? There is 12 books. I have a list of 12 books that I have to check. See if you have them." So we went to the book, to the building of the rare book collection, and we filled out the requests for these 12 books, and it took

1:55:56 Speaker 1 them half an hour till they got it. Then he brings the books to us. When he brings the books to us, we open the book. We right away see a, a few words written by the Friedik Rebbe, by the Rebbe Maharash, and by the Rebbe Rashab on each, on different books. We knew that we got it. So we ask him, "Which collection is it? Is it Lubavitch collection?" He says, "No, it's Polyakov collection." "How many books are in the Polyakov collection?" "About 8,000, 10,000." I says, "I assume this is our collection that we need, and there are all the col- the books." We left the library. It was on Friday morning. We went right away to the office where we could call. We called here to the maskiris, to Reb Levi Groner and to Yudl Krinsky, and they told the Rebbe. Here was still, uh, in middle of the night. But in the morning they told the Rebbe that we found it and all the details. The Rebbe was so glad, and he told the Rebbetzin all the details. The Rebbetzin called her friends with big joy. The collection was found. So that's how it started then. We were there for a month. First returned Rabbi, uh, Reb Nissan Mendel. Second returned Reb Shlomo Kunin. I stayed the last. I arrived here of Alef Shevat Tov Shin Mem Ches, a few hours before the passing of the Rebbetzin. That was our first mission. Over the month, we went to Peterburg and to Kyiv and to

1:57:54 Speaker 1 Odessa and to Dnepropetrovsk to find if there is anything from the Rebbe, from the Rebbe's father.

1:58:00 Speaker 5 The Rebbe, the Rebbe stipulated that you should look for that?

1:58:03 Speaker 1 The Rebbe stipulated I should look, and he gave me a lot of instructions on all my questions he had. He gave me a lot of instructions. About this, he says- You are asking for my father's things because it's me, so it's a good Chabad, so you could re- uh, uh, uh, demand that they should give you. But we, we checked in this forum, in the shul of the, in Dabrowsk, but we didn't find nothing.

1:58:34 Speaker 5 That we still didn't find?

1:58:36 Speaker 1 We still didn't find. Whatever was found, somebody gave that he was hiding and, but we didn't find there nothing.

1:58:45 Speaker 5 But was there an effort then to try to get them back, or just a-

1:58:49 Speaker 1 So they said, "Now that we found it, you could go back and we'll deal with the, with Chabad about returning it. You don't have to stay here for our dealing." So we returned back. For three years, nothing was done. They always pushed away, and nothing was done. So the Rebbe sent us again three years later in early Tov Shin Nun Alef. What was then? In Tov Shin Mem Vav, there was the explosion in, in Chernobyl, the nuclear ex-explosion. And then effort was made to save people from there. So Tzach in Eretz Yisrael and Aronov, head of Tzach, together with Itzhak Kogan, that was from Russia, decided to try to get permission to get the children out, out, and to settle them in Chabad Mezuzah in Eretz Yisrael. Russia didn't give them permission. But, uh, far, far related from Itzhak Kogan was Veronica Kogan. She was a lawyer, and she said she'll be able to help. So she went to the government, and finally she got the permission, and all the children came out from-

2:00:18 Speaker 5 This was something that the Rebbe was encouraging them to do, I think.

2:00:21 Speaker 1 Yes, yes. Af- that was earlier. But after that was all finished, she told them, "You're dealing so much about this forum. I feel I can arrange that too. Come with us and we'll work on it." They wrote it to Rebbe. Aronov wrote that, that to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe responded, "Find out by Rabbi Kunin where it's holding now." So he found out by Rabbi Kunin, and he wrote to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe said, "Then go there together. Work together with the Veronica in Moscow." They asked me to come with them. So I, I didn't feel it's important. I wrote to the Rebbe, "They're asking me to come with them, but I think I can stay here. When they're going to need me, I'll come." So the Rebbe answered me, "No. If you go to G- now, it's going to help to, to help more to the mission." So I went with them.

2:01:27 Speaker 5 You had Yechidas before, right?

2:01:29 Speaker 1 That was after we got all the permi- the, the instructions to go. So we went all four of us.

2:01:37 Speaker 5 You also had before Mem Ches on the way, you also spoke to the Rebbe, no?

2:01:43 Speaker 1 Mem Ches? Before, before we went there? Yes, sure. So the Rebbe, uh, the Rebbe sp- told it was then a secret. Nobody knew. But the Rebbe, middle of the Farbrengen, he spoke that we-- there is a story that the Tzemach Tzedek sent a Shliach to do something in Petersburg, and the Chas- Chassid told him, "And if I have questions?" So the Tzemach Tzedek answers, "When you'll be there, your decisions are going to be the correct ones." The Rebbe, the, the Tzemach Tzedek will decide for them, and the, and they'll make them the right decisions. Nobody knew what we are talking about. The Ra- just after that, the Rebbe told me and Rabbi Kunin to say l'chaim. And then, and then the next day on Sunday morning by Dallas, we went over to the Rebbe. So the Rebbe says, "Where is the third one? Uh, uh, Rabbi Nissen Mendel?" So the, we answered, "He didn't come yet, but so afternoon we'll come all three." So in the afternoon, all three came. So the Rebbe gave us each one $18, and then the, they came out the pr- proofreading from the Maamar the Rebbe said yesterday. It was in three pa- long pages. So the Rebbe gave us each one of us one page, and he says, "You'll learn the Maamar, so each one will need the other one. He wouldn't be able to survive himself. So that will help to the achdus between you on the mission." And then he said that when we go that

2:03:34 Speaker 1 night, we, the, we went, uh, uh, ch- that was Chof Teves. It was Sunday. So we went that night, and he said that since you're going on Chof Teves, the Alter Rebbe will walk with you. And since you're going to be there on Chof Dalet Teves, uh, Chof Teves, that's-

2:03:57 Speaker 5 Mem

2:03:57 Speaker 1 ... the Rambam will walk with him until you'll be there on Chof Teves. Chof Dalet Teves, the Fri- Alter Rebbe will walk with you. So Reb Shlomo Heller said, "And the Rebbe would w-walk with us." And the Rebbe said, said, "Amen." So that's when we all three got the mission personally. And at night he said that, uh, that when we went to the, when we're going to the airport, there should be a good delegation to go with us for, to the honor of the mission. So then, uh, David Krinsky went with us, and that's how we went.

2:04:34 Speaker 5 This is on Mem Ches.

2:04:34 Speaker 1 Yes.

2:04:35 Speaker 5 So now, so now Nun Alef.

2:04:36 Speaker 1 Mem Nun Alef. Nun Alef, that was in, uh, Mem Ches. Yeah, Mem Alef we went on tenth Kislev, all four of us, myself, Rabbi Kunin, Rabbi Aronoff, and Rabbi Kogan. And-

2:04:58 Speaker 5 And you had Yechidas before also?

2:05:04 Speaker 1 Only by Dallas. I don't remember if we went to Yechidas. Only by Dallas. Yes. And then we was in Moscow for a year and a half. When, in the beginning it looked like they're going to give it to us, the collection, but they trade a cup. And they just said, and they said yes, and next day said no. And she was working with them, and then they did trade here a cup, so nothing came out for the year and a half. We, after a while, we wanted to go back here, but they didn't let us. He said we should stay here, we should stay there till we get the box. So, uh, we went, we came back only for short missions twice for Shvus. They kicked us out from Russia, and we came home back, back from Shvus, and then we went back after Shvus. And then, and then for Y- for Yitvat I came, and for Pesach the Rebbe said, "The Shlome Kunin should go home." So, and for b- bar mitzvah the Rebbe said, "Aronov should come here." But in general, we were there for a year and a half. In the beginning, they worked with us, they drove us crazy. In the end, after a year and a half, it was already, uh, a year and a half later it was already after Chof Zayin order, then they said they had enough with us. They are not going to speak to us anymore about the subject. So we, we, we don't have

2:06:45 Speaker 1 anything there to do with them. They're not speaking to us. So we didn't know what to do. It was already after, uh, Chof Zayin order. So I've, in order to, the, uh, I, I thought l'chatchilah maybe we should stay there. So in, in the, when the Rebbe didn't let us, I asked the Rebbe, "It's very hard for me to stay there. Maybe you'd permit me to go home at least." And the Rebbe answered, " You went all there together on the mission, you'll come back from the mission all together when time comes. But now stay there." It was very difficult for me, but I stayed there for a year and a half. And, and in the, uh, uh, and, and then I thought maybe the Rebbe wants me to stay there, to settle there. So there was the Hanhalah from the Kehillah in Petersburg offered me to become the chief rabbi. So I asked the Rebbe, "Should I accept it?" So the Rebbe answered me, "What do you mean? Your work is here to run the library, and you still have to continue in it. So why are you asking about, about a job there?" So I stayed there only as much as I could. And after Chof Zayin order, was very difficult to ask the Rebbe. So I wrote to the, to the Reb Leib Kroner. I told him to ask the Rebbe that if I should come back for Shvus. And the Rebbe shaked with his head, and then I came back for

2:08:21 Speaker 1 Shvus to continue running the library till today, and on.

2:08:27 Speaker 6 Okay. And your family also came sometimes with you to Russia. You asked the Rebbe about that.

2:08:31 Speaker 1 One of the difficulties was that the family was here with three little children, and it was the difficult for my wife to be with them for such a long time without me. So she said, "If you are going there, maybe I could go also there with the children." So I asked the Rebbe in summer of the nullif after we're there for half a year, and the Rebbe said, "If there is education place that would fit for your children, then they could go." So that was before the summer camp. We arranged a summer camp there. So she, my wife and three children came. They were campers, and they helped a little bit in the camp. And there was, uh, like, uh, seven, eight, uh, Bochurim to take care of the camp. And my wife was in the kitchen making sure everything is kosher. We were there for two months, it was very successful. But that was... And then half a year later, we, we asked again. They came again. We arranged a, uh, a, uh, Chernobyl children camp. We're there with them for, uh, two weeks. Then the plane took us to Israel. I went with the camp with one of my children, and the same day the plane came back filled up with food for the Ru- for the Russian, uh, Jews. As I came back the same day, and then we were there, uh, till before, uh, Shvus. And before Shvus, I got a permission to come back here and to continue run- running

2:10:13 Speaker 1 the library.

2:10:14 Speaker 6 Right. And it's also the Shluchis changed a little bit, the one in the nullif, that you're also involved with Yiddishkayt in Russia, the group, right?

2:10:23 Speaker 1 That was right when we came there. The Rebbe said that we should be, the four of us should be the HaGados Chabad of Russia. And then there was s- several Shluchim there in cities, but it wasn't really organized. The one that supported them was Ezra HaChaim organization here. But the Rebbe wanted us to run it, so he gave us instructions and we were involved. We w- I went around to all 15 states to be with the Shluchim, uh- Till Kishinev and till, um, in Russia, all the cities. So we're, we're involved with the work, but then, then when we came back, we didn't have any more... I-- After I came back, I continued going to Russia to meet in, with the schlutim in these 15 cities, but only for one year, then it stopped. It, it couldn't continue.

2:11:29 Speaker 6 Right. It's also the two shlichus are very different 'cause the first one was before the fall of communism, and the second one was afterwards.

2:11:37 Speaker 1 We were there that night by the fall of communism in... And there came a few-- There was supposed to be a, a chassan in, a chuppah in the big shul,

2:11:49 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

2:11:49 Speaker 1 Achipov. But then after that night was the, the whole, uh, uh, uh, commotion with the fall of the government. So they came to us in our shul in, in Bolshaya Bronnaya, if they could do anything. So we did the chassan for them. And, uh, I, between the, after the chuppah, I went to the main street, and I went to between the tanks, uh, that stopped, that stopped the, the government to, to go there. So I was, I wasn't involved in the fights, but we saw it all between, uh, on the main street. We, uh, we wasn't in danger, but we went between the tanks.

2:12:33 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm. Wow. Okay. So I think, um, I think we, we covered, um, a lot of what, you know, we wanted to discuss. So with your, with your permission, I'll ask you some, uh, miscellaneous questions. Is that okay?

2:12:48 Speaker 1 Uh, for my part, if I know what to answer.

2:12:51 Speaker 6 Okay.

2:12:51 Speaker 1 If you, if you ask more details that I wouldn't remember, I wouldn't be able to answer. But in general, I'll try my best.

2:12:57 Speaker 6 Okay. So first of all, after the Sefardim came back, um, the, you know, m- m- Beis Kis Levim Ches, there's a whole story with the Derach Emunah and printing it.

2:13:08 Speaker 1 The rebbe then, he said nobody should s- um, make commotion out of Seven Seventy, and he went to the El. And then he said, when the forum come, they should bring him several books of this to the El. He should be able to see them there, to show them to the Friediker Rebbe or whatever. One of the three books was a Sefer Derach Emunah. It's a Sefer in Kabbalah. And when he saw the three books, he came back from the El, he wrote to me right away that he wants this book to be edited and printed very fast in order that we should see that returning the books means adding and learning. So Kabbalah, Maar Ma'amakeem Es, and write a whole movie about the history of the man that wrote it and that book. I didn't know anything about it. So I asked then Reb Zisel Pikarsky and Reb Elimelech Matzov that they were working on the Chassidis, Maar Ma'amakeem Es Chassidis. They should work on the Maar Ma'amakeem Es. And I sat down to make a movie, and it was very difficult because it was very not clear. I wrote it into the rebbe, and the rebbe changed it completely and sent it back to me to rework, and everything was supposed to be in the same day. And every hour, he asked the re- the secretary, uh, Rav Groner, to call me and ask me where they are up to in the Maar Ma'amakeem Es, where I'm up to in the movie, and

2:14:47 Speaker 1 where are you up to with the printing. All day and till the evening, they set it in print shop in Empire Press. But he wanted to get a copy of what they set it in before he goes home. But every while, he asks if they, they are ready. I say, "They are not ready yet. What shall I do?" So the rebbe said he's going home, and when I get it from the Empire Press, I should bring it in to the rebbe's house, and I should ring the bell and give it to him. I did so. When I arrived to the rebbe's house, I ring the bell, came out Sholom Ber Gansburg, and the rebbe-- And he tells me, "The rebbe sent me to pick it up from you." Over the night, the rebbe wr- looked it through and made a lot of corrections and a lot of virois. And then in the next day, it was already ready with the Maar Ma'amakeem Es and with the printing, and the rebbe was very satisfied that it was so fast done.

2:16:02 Speaker 6 Okay. And, uh, I know over the years, there were other publications that in between the Igris and in between the Hagada, there was other publications that you worked on based on the Rebbe's Hasidais, right?

2:16:16 Speaker 1 Do you really think that all this would fit in in a way that I could explain it and be able-- people should be able to follow it? I just mentioned the, the Hagada is one description of 72, uh, Chevres. I spoke about the Igris Kodesh. Altogether, there are about over 50 volumes. So I could give a general ex- uh, uh, but to go very specifically on each one separately, it would be too much for me, too much for the listeners. I can just say that in, uh, when I was Engaged. I was in London. I was by my grandfather there. He lived, Mayor, Mayor Gurkov, he lived in London. So when I was by him, he gave me a whole booklet of his handwriting, telling all his biography that he wrote when the Friedi Rebbe said Hasidim should write their own biographies. So he gave it to me. So when I came back here, I made a copy of it, and I sent it in to the Rebbe. That was the end of Tov Shin Lamed Gimel. Three years later, Rebbe in Lamed Vav, when I started working with the Kevitz of Jagel Teire and with other Kevtsin, then the Rebbe told me to do... So the Rebbe sent it to our, uh, sent it out to me, and he said he should, I should edit it and print it. So that was the first book, the, the second book that I edited and printed on my own by the Rebbe's instruction, not by Yos.

2:18:20 Speaker 1 So that's one of them, but there is many others to just go read and see the history of each one is more, too many, too much detailed for interview.

2:18:32 Speaker 6 Okay. And I guess this is another encouragement that, uh, those that are watching and listening can r- read the Sefer Avedes HaKodesh that you published, which is available for sale, right? It's in print. And, uh, it-

2:18:47 Speaker 1 Whatever I said today is just description, but the details of all the 600 answers, be- between 600 and 700 answers that I have from the Rebbe in their copy of the Ksav Et Kodesh, and the retyping of each answer, and the background for each answer is all I i- included in the Avedes HaKodesh. So my interview today is just take some of the details of the Avedes HaKodesh and to describe it verbal for people to be able to follow it. Uh, but, but se- specifically, if one wants to know everything that he heard here from me, to know exactly the text, what the Rebbe wrote to me, and to see the Ksav Et Kodesh of what the Rebbe wrote to me, he could see it all in the Avedes HaKodesh.

2:19:45 Speaker 6 Okay. And I have to thank you again on behalf of, uh, Hasidim that you published all of this. And not only that, in general, you like putting everything out. For example, scanning everything from the library. I mean, in the Der Her, that's something we access all the time, documents and photos and everything like that. So-

2:20:02 Speaker 1 That's no question that you, as the head of Der Her, years ago, whenever you gave out of the Der Her, you asked me for different Ksav Et Kodesh, that's, um, copies of our Ksav Et Kodesh. And I went out of my way to try to help Der Her in, in everything they needed from Ksav Et Kodesh or from other books to be able to give out the Der Her in a proper way.

2:20:32 Speaker 6 Okay. So yasher koach for that. And hopefully it's easier now that it's all scanned. Yeah. Okay. Thank you very much, and yaarech yamim am al mahltei, and, uh-

2:20:44 Speaker 1 Amen, amen

2:20:44 Speaker 6 ... ad d'yatzkir et tzaddik.

2:20:46 Speaker 1 Amen.

2:20:47 Speaker 6 All right. Thank you.