Ep. 41: How Does One Transcribe The Rebbe’s Maamar? with Rabbi Dovid Olidort

00:00 Speaker 1 I listened to the Rebbe's Maharim, so more or less I remember more or less said, I understand a little bit what he said. Then when Rebbe Yo said Chazora, Motzei Shabbos, you write down, you'd write down, uh, details. You write down kitzurim of what the Rebbe said, and then you sit down to write it down. You, you use both. You use what you remember, and you use the, the foot- the notes, which are short notes, and together- Today's episode is brought to you by Machane Israel. There's a very special Torah being commissioned right now, and stay tuned a little bit later for more details about how you can be a part of it. I'm Yossi Kamen. Welcome to Among Chassidim by Der Her, an ongoing farbrengen about life as a Chassid, our vibrant connection with the Rebbe, an inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. How are you, Rabbi Oludort? Baruch Hashem. Thank you so much for being here. Always help. Always happy to help. Okay, appreciate that. I would like to begin and ask you if you can talk a little bit, little bit about your upbringing, where you came from. I know you're not born in these parts and not born in Eretz Yisrael, so you have a unique, uh, a unique story. So maybe you can, uh, share that with me a little bit. Well, I was born in, uh, in a, in a Russian suburb of Moscow, in Tavshin Yod Zain. Uh, my parents, uh,

01:31 Speaker 1 were all but obviously there, and, um... And I, uh, I, I lived in Moscow, and, uh, that suburb until, until Adar. Actually, that was Yod Zain Adar Tav Shin Lamed Chaf Zain. That's when we moved from Moscow to, uh, to Seoul. To talk about, more about background of my family, my father came from a, from a fa- from a family from U- Ukraine. His, his parents, his father was a, was a Sefard Chassid, and they ran away during World War II, evac- evacuated from Ukraine, from Odessa, well in the east, and they ended up being around Ta- Tashkent, that area. And, um, that- that's when my fa- my father was then is, is, uh, around bar mitzvah age. So that's when my, that's when my father was introduced to Chabad because there were, there were Chabad chederim ran – cheder Chabad ran in that area. It was the only, only Frum environment. So that's when my father... So my grandfather sent my father to study there under Chabad, and that's how my father became a Chassid, together with a lot of people that area, in that, from that era that, uh, were introduced to Chabad and became close to Chabad. I mean, a big chunk of them moved in the famous echelons here to, uh, here to, to the Western world. But, uh, also s- uh, also, Hashivechelik stayed in, in Russia. My parent, my father stayed in Russia. 'Cause they weren't able to leave or- They weren't able to leave. Yeah. The, uh, the...

03:12 Speaker 1 Now, and no, it-- To leave was, was a, was a process. Not everybody was even not able or not could. There were reasons why they could. A lot of them came later. We all know that a lot of them came later. And then my father and his family moved to Siberia because the government, his sister, the sister studied there, uh, and they, the government sent her to work in a factory in, in Siberia. Then later he, he came to Moscow. To Moscow, the, in the area of Moscow. It had a, lot of, a lot of Frum, F- Frum families there. Pa- pa- uh, big, pardon, Chabad families. And, and then that's when he met my mother, who also came. She, one of the relatives there. One of her relatives lived in that area. What, what type of family is she from? She came from also from a, from a Frum family in Odessa, from, uh, I think city of Rozhin, of Buyan. And that's when they met, and, uh, that's how, so I was born there. And my, my f- my grandfather, my father's father, who was already retired, I mean, he wasn't that old and that he was already retired at that point. He is the one who taught me everything. He taught me from Alef Bet till Gemara. You didn't go to cheder or anything? There was no cheder. There was no cheder. Moscow, no cheder? No, there was no cheder in Moscow. So I was homeschooled in, uh, Yiddish, in Jewish stuff

04:32 Speaker 1 and, uh, Jewish, uh, studies in, uh... By my grandfather. Taught me everything, like I said, from Alef Bet till Gemara, till e- till nine, till I was nine and a half. And, uh, and, and m- I, I was q- quite young when I was in Russia, but my memories are we had in our little sh- uh, suburb of Moscow, we had, we had our own minyan. We had a minyan Shabbosim. Most of the... Not... Everybody was, uh, uh, very old, old-timers. M- I was the only child there. My, my, uh, cousin, my father's sister and husband, they also lived there with my grandparents. So they're children, but they were all a little old. My cousin's a little older than me. And, uh, we used to have a minyan the Shabbosim. And, uh, I think, if I think I remember correctly, I was m- once mashalim a minyan with the s- with the Sid- with the Chumash, mashu kaze. Simchas Torah, Simchas Torah Tav Shin Chaf Zain. My last Simchas Torah there, I got mafdil, age nine. I got ma... It's, it's, it's a funny memory there from the past. Well, you know how to read it, no? My... I don't... Yeah, I'm telling you, my grandfather taught me everything. So Gemara, not just, uh, like, uh, Ivrit, Chumash, Mishnah, it's Gemara. Then, uh, my father also learned Mila and Shechita in order, in order to help with, uh, the, in that, in that ar- ar- area, in that era again It, it was a time

06:05 Speaker 1 when there, there wasn't enough of from people. We, we- all the from people used-- All our f-from families to get together-

06:11 Speaker 2 Were they Lubavitcher Hasidim?

06:12 Speaker 1 Part of them were Lubavitcher Hasidim. Part not Lubavitcher Hasidim.

06:15 Speaker 2 So who's or anyone, anyone was organizing these activities or it was all-

06:19 Speaker 1 It was all... Yeah, it was, uh, I don't know. Yeah, there wa- there was probably some kind of organization. I remember also going to-- There was a main shul in the Moscow, the big shul in the city. The chief rabbi was Rabbi Levin. I remember, I think, going with my father there, and he gave us, uh, I think it was a Siddur, small Siddur to Hashem, and I am Yim. We got-- I think they got it. They used to get it through the Israeli embassy there. Um-

06:46 Speaker 2 He's the one that came later to the Rebbe.

06:47 Speaker 1 Right.

06:48 Speaker 2 In Chabad.

06:48 Speaker 1 He came later to the Rebbe. Um, I mean, from the f- the, the Greenberg family, obviously, and his, and the Rabbi Greenberg from Alaska. His, uh, his, his older brother Naftali was my age, and, uh, and his, uh... He had cousins. He had his grandfather, Rabbi, Rabbi Hazzan, and, uh, was other families.

07:13 Speaker 2 Were there any, like, notable Hasidim that, uh, came around over the, that you remember? Or-

07:19 Speaker 1 A lot of names that I remember. I, I don't know if they're described notable Hasidim, but you know, there are a lot of names, uh, from that era. The, the, I remember Judah Kalasha, who was the... He was, he was in the city. He lived in the city.

07:35 Speaker 2 Where is the suburb?

07:36 Speaker 1 It was a sub- that was a suburb of Mask- of Moscow, but now it became already part of the city.

07:40 Speaker 2 What's the, what's the, what's the name?

07:42 Speaker 1 The name was Klasma. I remember there was also the, there was also the Makhnov Karebbe, who was a Rebbe from the, from the Chernobyl dynasty, which like I said, my grandfather was also, like, originally a Hasid of, of, uh, of Skver, which was also Chernobyl dynasty. So Makhnov Karebbe had his own shul in the city of Moscow. I remember going there a few times. Later, he moved to Bnei Brak. I mean, we moved to Bnei Brak, too, and, uh, not only that, he was also my sandek actually. My grandfather wanted to be my sandek. It was considered shivest to have a, a Rebbe, a Rebbe to be my sandek. Um, act- Okay. So that, that's step one. Uh, another small part is that, uh, uh, first grade public school, you had, you, you had, and we must go to public school in Russia. In Russia, those days, at least, Shabbos was also. School was on, uh, school was six days a week, including Shabbos. And because our school was a small school, s-small, so Friday, our, our class is still on the afternoon. So, and on the short Fridays was also a problem. So as far as Shabbos, we got some doctor to, to write a note that, uh, that I need an extra day off. But Fridays was an issue. S-s- the, the winter Fridays, sometimes I, uh, I always l-look for excuses. One day they didn't let, let me, uh, leave, so I made a little, a little, uh, uh... I acted, uh,

09:20 Speaker 1 upset and this and that, and they got, got me some help. It's funny. I mean, in my memory, as-- When I experienced it, it was, it was obviously, uh, bad, but, uh, going back, looking back, it was a, it was a little, uh, incident.

09:37 Speaker 2 Was it like, um... How was it to, like, be a minority of a minority, a-

09:45 Speaker 1 Yeah

09:45 Speaker 2 ...Yid and a-

09:46 Speaker 1 It was-

09:46 Speaker 2 ...From Yid, like how, how did that work?

09:46 Speaker 1 So we used to, example, you can see that. For example, I used to, I used to, I had to wear a yarmulke, right? So in, in class, I think I had to take off. I'm not sure. I think in class maybe I had to take off the yarmulke, but in the street I had to wear a yarmulke. I couldn't wear a regular Jewish yarmulke. So the, the, the... You can see that. The Uzbekis, the Uzbek goyim, they have this, uh, big c- head covering called tebeteyka. That's what it's called in Russian. So I used to walk around with that in, in Russia. Some people ca- Today you can see it. There's some, some people do it still, you know, in, uh... Nisht negative. It's, it's, uh, some ki- Hard. Life was hard. So s- I was taunted as a Jew, obviously, but I remember I was sitting in, in, uh, in public school next-- Uh, it was mixed. So wait. I, I, I mixed, uh, uh, times up a little bit. The beginning was that the first class, the first grade, somehow my father managed n- to, to get me out of the first grade. But second grade I had to go. They forced us to go. So all these things happened. I remember there was some g- some girl there, she says, "I'm not Jewish. My both grandparents, grand- and are Jewish, but I'm not," she told me. It's not memory. It turns out later on she moved to Israel, like after, after, like

11:00 Speaker 1 40 years later, 30 years later.

11:01 Speaker 2 Right. So she's, she's Jewish.

11:02 Speaker 1 I didn't, I don't know anything about her. I just, my mother told me about it.

11:06 Speaker 2 Okay.

11:07 Speaker 1 Uh, Choleiv, and so that's step, in a way, step, step one.

11:11 Speaker 2 Okay.

11:11 Speaker 1 Schlav Alef. Schlav Beis was the tw- like I said, Chav Zion, Baruch Hashem, we, we moved, we moved to Eretz Yisro. We, uh, the, it was, it was a process. They rejected us-

11:23 Speaker 2 Yeah. I have a question before that.

11:24 Speaker 1 Yeah. Sure.

11:26 Speaker 2 Um, was there like, uh, like, uh, you felt, you knew that you were like, uh, a Lubavitcher Hasid?

11:33 Speaker 1 Yeah.

11:33 Speaker 2 Like how did that, how did that work?

11:34 Speaker 1 That's why I wanted to have this record. I told you. So I davened Nusach Ari to, to Hashem. My grandfather was a Skver Hasid, davened the Nusach Sefard. So we, the... And, and so there were, we-- I felt there was also all the relatives we had. There also relatives of the Greenbergs who were like also now, uh, Polish Hasidim. So they used to daven Nusach Sefard. They used to daven Nusach Habad. And it was, there was a little stick of friction even. As children, we're talking about small children. It wasn't a serious friction, but it was obvious that you will, we said... I remember even, even having a minyan Shabbos Mevarchim for Tehillim.

12:07 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

12:07 Speaker 1 As a child, I remember one, once there was, we wanted to have Tehillim Shabbos Mevarchim, so people walked To our house, like Shabbos afternoon to have a Mincha Shabbos Mevarch.

12:17 Speaker 2 And your father was part, was part of this.

12:19 Speaker 1 Of course.

12:19 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah.

12:19 Speaker 1 Yeah, my father's the one... I mean, he's not the only one. He was, yeah, he was, he, he, he taught me lo- to, to, to daven to, especially the Nosso HaAri Z"L, and, and all the, whatever Minhagim they, they had there. I reme- I think I remember him also. So, yeah.

12:34 Speaker 2 You know anything about the Rebbe?

12:36 Speaker 1 The, I, I don't... The, um, the other stories I don't recall exactly, but they probably, they said something about a Re- a Rebbe. The, the, uh, I was young, and I don't remember. I personally don't remember that, but, uh, I assume that, that the, the older people know more about on that.

12:57 Speaker 2 Interesting. Okay. So Teshri 57, the-

13:00 Speaker 1 Yeah

13:00 Speaker 2 ... decision that you have to get out of there.

13:02 Speaker 1 No, the decision's not mine.

13:04 Speaker 2 Your parents.

13:04 Speaker 1 My parents, my parents. So they asked to be, to be released, and they were rejected twice till finally some- somehow, uh, considered a miracle that, uh... I remember I once met in Moscow, later, later, I met the ambassador, the Israeli amb- uh, I think the ambassador to Moscow. She says, "I came out of, of Russia in 1967, also Chavzain." I said, "Really?" She said, "According to statistics, in that year, only 1,000 people left Russia."

13:32 Speaker 2 Wow.

13:33 Speaker 1 The Yisroels. I was one of 1,000, which is quite-

13:34 Speaker 2 So it is a miracle.

13:35 Speaker 1 Yeah, it is quite a miracle. She ta- she knew the statistics. She also came out that year. I was-

13:40 Speaker 2 Wow

13:40 Speaker 1 ... I was surprised. Um, um, okay, now is when-

13:47 Speaker 2 So you went to Eretz Yisrael?

13:48 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, went to Eretz Yisrael with my family, and we, we, we, beginning we moved to Bnei Brak because our relatives, my f- my mother's cousin, the closest relative my mother had there was her cousin, so we stayed with them in Bnei Brak. We rented a place in Bnei Brak, and that was Tav- uh, Adar, Teshri 57. Then, uh, Pesach, Chol Hamoed Pesach of 57, we, we took a trip to Yerushalayim to see from far, it was before Six-Day War. So we lo- went up some mountain, I think, uh, to see from far parts of Har Habayis, the it was all trip. It was a major trip. A- And then in Che- in, in, in, oh, so when I came there, I went to Chabad cheder right away. So the-

14:31 Speaker 2 In Bnei Brak?

14:32 Speaker 1 Yeah. There was a, there was a Cheder Chabad, a very small cheder. There was a picture, actually. There was a random picture because some kid over there had a, uh, birthday or something. So there's a picture. A lot of people there that, uh, Ha- Hashanah mentioned that day, like Zalman Lando, Chaim Shlomo Diskin. And, uh, and I, you'll see. Maybe Yasker is also in that picture. And, um, my melamed was Rabbi Leiba Stulin. And he, well, it was exciting because, uh, first of all, Rabbi Leiba Stulin was also my father's melamed in Russia, in Fortis.

15:04 Speaker 2 Yeah.

15:04 Speaker 1 So the same, I had the same melamed. And, uh, and, uh, and also if I remember correctly, Rabbi Leiba Stulin left Russia about half a year before us, but he, he came from, from Us- Uzbekistan, from Tashkent. So on the way to leave Russia, he went to Moscow, so he stayed in my, in my grandparents' house.

15:26 Speaker 2 So you, you knew him.

15:26 Speaker 1 So I remember I s- I saw him already on, before. I learned, I remember learned Bava Kama, and he, it was, it, it, I'm surprised at my- at myself how my, uh, how good my grandfather managed to teach me.

15:37 Speaker 2 You're up to the level.

15:38 Speaker 1 I was up to the level. I was able to, to follow. It's not like it was, comes up out of nowhere, and I didn't learn, till then I never learned in a cheder.

15:46 Speaker 2 Wow.

15:46 Speaker 1 So, so ba- I mean, that, that really, I have to credit my grandfather for that. And, uh, so we learned for three months there. So we were there for a few months, and my father was looking for a job, looking for a, for a house. Uh, then the Six-Day War started of, in Iyar 57, right? So Iyar 57, I remember during the war, we came to cheder, the cheder is closed, so we had to run to a, to a s- to a special underground place. I, I think it was under one of the shuls. Uh, Lando, Zalman Lando was our classmate, so his grandfather, Reb Yankele Lando, arranged us a place. I think that's right. Maybe not, not, maybe it's not exactly the, it's not sure 'cause, uh... But in Bnei Brak you didn't feel anything. You didn't hear anything. So right after that, the Yerushalayim became a place, so the, the government offered my father a place, uh, apartment in Yerushalayim-

16:45 Speaker 2 It's a new area

16:46 Speaker 1 ... not for free, but it, it, a special program, uh, area on the old border with... In other words, before, before the war, it was mamash on the border of Yerushalayim and, and Jordan, or fees, uh, to southern Jordan. So, so they offered him a place there, and my father wanted to be, to live in Yerushalayim, so right away, so we moved to Yerushalayim in the Beis Chamish 57. And the, and the first day, obviously, the first time in Yerushalayim, we came there, and we met the, the, the Chabad people there. We went. There was a, there was a «Chabad in Yerushalayim.» The shul based Hamish 57. I was still, I was still, uh, nine years old, like I said. And, uh, we, we got to know the, the few Chabad people, important Chabad people. There was Tuvia Bloy, which was, uh, where he became a good friend of my father, and I also. He used to give shu- later, he was, used to give shurim in his, in his home, and Al Tabo Shulchan Oach for children. Like, I remember co- going there. And there was also, the menahil of the cheder then was Reb Sholom Leib Eisenbach, alav ha-shalom, who was in, la- la- later he moved to Montreal. So sh- he had, he had a strong effect. So he was my melamed there in the beginning. He was also the menahil. He was the melamed. So that's, I already started in, in, in a regular Chabad cheder, Cheder Yerushalayim, for a few

18:04 Speaker 1 years. After him, I had, uh, Menachem Wilhelm, alav ha-shalom, and a lot of, uh, important people. And then later, I had my bar mitzvah Teshri Lamed. So that was the first bar mitzvah in Tzemach Tzedek Shul. Tzemach Tzedek Shul was renewed- Was, uh, take, you know, in the Old City, it was actually in Old City, it was still some old fac- they turned it into factory.

18:27 Speaker 2 You're saying-

18:27 Speaker 1 The Arabs-

18:28 Speaker 2 When it, when it was under-

18:29 Speaker 1 Exactly. When the Arabs to- turned it into a factory, and then when Chabad took it, when we took it over, so it was being rebuilt and, and they f- finally fi- finished the downstairs. They should be able, be able to make a, make a

18:40 Speaker 2 They were coming from 770.

20:39 Speaker 1 Yeah. They, that was after Kvitza. They came to us after Kvitza.

20:43 Speaker 2 So they gave you a little bit of a flavor of 770.

20:44 Speaker 1 Yeah, they gave us a flavor of 770. And I remember those years, Tish-Tishrei, Taf Shin Lamed-Dalet was also a very important year because Likutei Sichos used to come out every week. There was a major, there was a major inspiring, uh-

20:59 Speaker 2 And you would get it, uh, as well?

21:00 Speaker 1 Yes, we got the Likut, and everybody would learn, and Koch said very much on the Likutim. I remind myself now, Sicha I want to tell you. I remind myself that Shalom Meizosh was a Melamed. So ear- I think, or earlier, Taf Shin-Chaf Zayin, he taught, one day he speaks to the boys and says, "You should know the Rebbe was Mechadesh, a new way of learning Rashi and Chumash. I must tell you, it's unbelievable." And he gave us this thing. He says, "And everybody who has a question, tell it to me and I'll send it to the Rebbe."

21:28 Speaker 2 Rashi Sichos.

21:29 Speaker 1 Rashi. Not in the Sicha. Sha'ele in Rashi. You have a Sha'ele in Rashi-

21:32 Speaker 2 I'm saying that he introduced you to the concept of Rashi-

21:34 Speaker 1 Yeah, he introduced us the concept of Rashi Sichos when we were nine years old.

21:36 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

21:37 Speaker 1 Today, people, children nine years old, so

21:38 Speaker 2 I, I learned, uh, Rashi Sichas with my eight-year-old, uh-

21:44 Speaker 1 Rashi-

21:44 Speaker 2 It was, it was, it was difficult.

21:45 Speaker 1 Yeah. Can you imagine?

21:47 Speaker 2 Yeah.

21:47 Speaker 1 So I'm saying, uh, I remember I even gave him some kind of questions, stuff. But it was, it, it, so I'm saying that this, these types of, uh, things were already started earlier. But, but we were children, we really didn't appreciate it. But, uh, when we, we got to yeshiva, and we had the Likutei, we had the Bochum that came 770, and we had the, the, uh, the Likutim that used to come out every... It, it was very inspiring and, uh-

22:15 Speaker 2 And there was no, the hookups yet?

22:17 Speaker 1 No, the hook... Oh, wait a minute. Okay. The, it's, you're right. Okay. Hookups also. I remember the hookup situation. So the hookup started, the first hookup was Yuchvat Taf Shin Lamed. That was, yeah, that's, that was also an important event.

22:30 Speaker 2 The

22:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, Moshe Sefatele, right. I don't rem... Yeah, I remember about Moshe Sefatele, but the whole idea was-

22:35 Speaker 2 That was the first hookup.

22:35 Speaker 1 First hookup was Yuchvat Taf Shin Lamed, and I remember waking up in the middle of the night, like 3:00, 3:00 in the morning, is this? That was the, that was the time that we, our, our times were still organized, before we become a Bochur, you know?

22:47 Speaker 2 Right.

22:48 Speaker 1 So 3:00, usually you're asleep. So you wake up, woke up 3:00, and I, we lived then in, uh, in, uh, in, you know, in the middle of Jerusalem, it's in Sanhedria. To walk, it was a, it was a nice walk, like a maybe 20, 25-minute walk up a ma- up a hill. It was a long, long walk in the middle of the night. We come to yeshiva, and there's a hookup, and it's a gate niche. Like you can't hear, you could hear. It was, it was quite sporadic. But it, it was the first time we heard the Rebbe. It was extremely... Then I was still 12 years old. Yuchvat Taf Shin Lamed, I was only 12. My bar mitzvah was L. So but, yeah, I, I, yeah, I do recall it. But late, and later, the schedule started to become more organized. It was very, also part of the inspiration.

23:29 Speaker 2 So you were al- already listening to the Rebbe's Habreings in, in Eretz Yisrael?

23:31 Speaker 1 Sure. Not that I'm saying I understood, but, uh-

23:34 Speaker 2 You didn't understand then?

23:35 Speaker 1 No, I understood something. Some things I understood, espe-

23:37 Speaker 2 You're young.

23:38 Speaker 1 What? In the fierarch, my age, and, uh, especially when the Rebbe spoke about some things that we, like when he spoke about our Gemara or something, something that we, something we lear- especially something that we learned in, in Gemara, et cetera, it was very, uh, inspiring, obviously. And, um-

23:56 Speaker 2 So then the option to come to New York starts developing?

24:01 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Um, there's a few reasons. First of all, like I said, I lost my havrusa, and, and the yeshiva in Tarasems, uh, I don't know if I want to talk. But it, it wa- it wasn't, I, it didn't feel, uh, comfortable. And it was a big ruach. "Let's go to, let's go to the Rebbe." Everybody was talking about it. So, so I guess so, so Lamed Gimel, I ended up here.

24:22 Speaker 2 You were off.

24:23 Speaker 1 I was off. I was ended up here. The first month I slept in some g- some, another Lubavitcher family on Carroll Street because their son was punked out of my class. So, so he-

24:34 Speaker 2 He was in your class?

24:35 Speaker 1 He was in my... He came also. He, from another Lubavitcher family, he came to learn up to us in Tarasems. I don't remember why. His last name was Donner.

24:41 Speaker 2 Oh, his name?

24:42 Speaker 1 Donner.

24:43 Speaker 2 Donner.

24:43 Speaker 1 Donner.

24:44 Speaker 2 Okay.

24:44 Speaker 1 He lived on Carroll Street. So because I stayed Tisha in, in their house. Just sleep, staying and sleeping. And, uh, okay, Tisha Lamed Gim- Lamed Dalet, anybody who knows Chabad history, was, uh, was like one of the, it was a major month. To find, to me, it felt this, this is what it was. The, I did- I didn't realize later that this was something very, very different from the year before and the year after. Because first of all, the Yom Kippur War happened then. The Rebbe Fabraying, the Rebbe spoke, uh, he taught that there was very moon out. But there's a lot of things happened that month which didn't happen la-later. But to me, that was my introduction.

25:22 Speaker 2 So you came, uh-

25:23 Speaker 1 Like I fell in right into the-

25:24 Speaker 2 Bang.

25:25 Speaker 1 Yeah. With a bang, like you say. Right. I fell into Tisha and, uh, for... And now I have to find a place that stand by farbrengen and all these type, all these type of things took a whi-a while to, to land, as they say. And then also there was also there, there were a lot of interesting things that happened. I don't, I don't remember the details. We're talking something about more than 50 years ago. But, uh, there was then a cloud that no yeshiva can accept someone unless the yeshiva he comes from gives a tzeitel. And the Tzemach didn't want to l-let me go. So I ne-I didn't get the shul from the Tzemach to leave really. So I had to struggle here. So for a month, I was just sitting in 770, sleeping on the bench, and like it was, uh, it was really-

26:14 Speaker 2 Homeless

26:15 Speaker 1 ... ho- sort of. And, uh, but then late, in the, in the end, Alef- alef- Alef- alef Torah took me in. I went to Mo- actually, the truth is I went to Morristown also to try Morristown, but I, but so I wasn't happy. I was like, "I came to be by the Rebbe, but I'm not gonna be in Morristown."

26:30 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

26:30 Speaker 1 "That's where I came from." Okay, so, so then I ended up being in Alef Torah. Alef Torah then, it's not, totally not Alef Torah of today. In, in, in, there was a, there was a building called 695, uh, Eastern Parkway. I don't think it exists anymore. So the, the... And there, there was-

26:48 Speaker 2 695?

26:49 Speaker 1 695, which is on the corner of Brooklyn Eastern Parkway.

26:53 Speaker 2 Across the street. On the, on the side of where Alef Torah is today.

26:55 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. On the side of-

26:56 Speaker 2 I think a Chossid had something there once.

26:57 Speaker 1 Chossid. Not Chossid. Chossid were on the Chossid, yeah.

26:59 Speaker 2 Oh, okay.

27:00 Speaker 1 Later. So 695, there was a, there was, uh, Alef Torah had a branch over there from the older bochurim. The yeshiva itself was in Rhinus.

27:09 Speaker 2 In Troy.

27:09 Speaker 1 In, in Troy. So there, I, I actually, I, I remember learning there also during Tisha. Maybe I was like But then when I, uh... 695 had, there were three cl- there be- there was Rosh Yeshiva was Rabbi Saul Friedman. The Mashpia was Shlomo Ajvesky. That, that's what it was, and there were three, three classes there. The oldest class, it was... The difference was probably put the older bochurim, also, also the, the, the, the shiurim they got was a li- uh, high-

27:38 Speaker 2 But you were an older bochur.

27:39 Speaker 1 Exactly. I was the youngest.

27:40 Speaker 2 You, you-

27:40 Speaker 1 I, I was 16. In Elul I became 16. I went, I came there like at, I came to 770, uh, when I was 16, and I went-

27:47 Speaker 2 So you ended up with older people?

27:48 Speaker 1 No. No. There was also like, so three, three grades there. There was the highest grade. I was in the lowest grade. That was my age group.

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29:16 Speaker 1 One of my g-very good friends from those years, Oliver Shalom Lipa Dubowski, he was a friend of mine. The, uh, and I think he was in my class. There's also a few. There was a guy, O-Avraham Bochun, Oliver Shalom, and then we have, uh, Yossel Katzman, you know. That was my class globally. The, the, the higher grade was Yossi Gurary of Detroit, uh, Shalom Charitonov. Yossel Matzkin. The middle class was, uh, Shalom Bergaurary. He's in, uh, Brazil.

29:49 Speaker 2 Brazil.

29:49 Speaker 1 And, uh, David Zalmanov, the Mashpia, and Mendy Lukowski, the, the Rov.

29:55 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

29:56 Speaker 1 See, I was, I became a chavrusa of Mendy Lukowski, and, uh, we learned together for a year. So one, one year we were there in Alef Torah. Rabbi Saul was our Mashpia, uh, our Rosh Yeshiva. We learned Masechet Shabbat. And, uh, Shlomo, Shlomo Ajvesky was our Mashpia. We learned Raanan-

30:12 Speaker 2 Shlomo

30:13 Speaker 1 ... Shlomo. We learned Raanan by him. I remember at one point, you see, uh, in the other interview that was mentioned that at, at that point, Lamed Heh, the, the situation with the Anochis was very schwach. There was no Ano- there was no Anochis. So one day, Rabbi Shlomo Ajvesky decided that we were gonna write kitzurim of Anochis every Sha- every... The, the bochurim in, in, in that, in that group would write Anochis. Everybody got his piece. My, my lot was Likutei Levi Yitzchok.

30:40 Speaker 2 So what I was saying, you have to slow down a bit here.

30:42 Speaker 1 Sorry.

30:42 Speaker 2 I have, I have to process what's going on here. So now you're moving on from Alef Torah to, to, to the-

30:47 Speaker 1 No, I'm not saying they're unrelated. No, it's unrelated. I'm just wondering what, say, say one point that I remember Rabbi Shlomo Ajvesky.

30:53 Speaker 2 Okay, yeah.

30:53 Speaker 1 See, he taught us Raanan. I just want to tell one cent.

30:56 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

30:56 Speaker 1 So everybody, the, the, like the older bochurim, that's guy, this, they write the first sichas. Some people wrote the Rashi sichas. Somehow I ended up... I know that maybe it went on for, uh- Didn't go out for too long, a few months. Oh, I forgot, one of my classmate was also Nachum Shapiro, .

31:13 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

31:14 Speaker 1 so the, because I remind he was also involved, so I remember. So I, I to the I remember-

31:21 Speaker 3 The .

31:21 Speaker 1 The for ourselves. I remember I heard once, uh, the Rebbe, um, the Rebbe write in Hebrew, I wrote, and always Abba. So Shlomo Jeske tells me, "Well, it's kinda Abba, right? Amur," right? Abba.

31:35 Speaker 3 Okay.

31:35 Speaker 1 'Cause the Rebbe said the Tatn, Tatn-

31:37 Speaker 3 Tatn

31:37 Speaker 1 ... so I translate Abba, but he said, "That's not the way you write. You write Amur."

31:40 Speaker 3 Amur.

31:43 Speaker 1 that's, that's how Lamed Dalet ended. The end of Lamed Dalet, Tav Sha- Tishri Lamed Heh, the Rebbe sent everybody away. That was if you look at the , the Rebbe, all of a sudden everybody went away. My entire class went away. Half to Israel, to Montreal- But I said I... They didn't even offer me. Nobody told me I should go, but I said, "I came here. Why am I going to go away now?"

32:05 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

32:06 Speaker 1 So I, so I was left alone. There were, I had no class. Chei V... Th- so the next, I was Chei Vayitira, but Chei Vayitira, you had to be a certain age to be there.

32:14 Speaker 3 It's a, it's a kvutze bachur, no?

32:16 Speaker 1 What?

32:16 Speaker 3 Isn't it a kvutze bachur? I mean-

32:18 Speaker 1 No, the kvutze is older. I was 17.

32:20 Speaker 3 See, in, in Chei V isn't that usually the-

32:22 Speaker 1 No. In that point Chei V, Chei V started Lamed Gimel, uh, Lamed Gimel.

32:26 Speaker 3 The the Rebbe spoke about.

32:27 Speaker 1 Yeah, the of course, the Rebbe . It's, I remember we heard that as in a shiur-

32:32 Speaker 3 Yeah

32:32 Speaker 1 ... when Rebbe spoke about it. Yeah, and, and the, the bachur came from 770, explained to us what he's talking about because we didn't-

32:38 Speaker 3 Right, the Rebbe's giving a whole -

32:39 Speaker 1 Yes, yes

32:39 Speaker 3 ... on .

32:40 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

32:41 Speaker 3 And so we have no idea what the Rebbe's talking about.

32:42 Speaker 1 Exactly.

32:43 Speaker 3 The Rebbe's talking about that the bachur need to move from 770 to Chei V.

32:45 Speaker 1 The bachur need, exactly, from 770 to Chei Vayitira. So at that point Chei Vayitira was... So, so I ended up being the youngest bachur in Chei Vayitira because I was the only one left.

32:53 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

32:54 Speaker 1 I- in other words, my class left, and so, so I ended up in Chei Vayitira. In the Chei Vayitira we have, uh, Mendlit gave us a shiur. I think it was learned Gitin then, if I remember correctly, Gitin. And, uh, Za- Shlema Zachi taught us Samach, Samach. Tav Shin Ches, and what's Tav Shin Ches? Do you call? Tav Shin Ches, I think Samach, one of the Samach, I don't remember.

33:17 Speaker 3 That it's mused on.

33:18 Speaker 1 I'm not sure it's mused on. He lo- he gave us a shiur on Tav. I remember Chais quality, Chais quantity. What is Samach Gimel? We can... So he gave us shiurim in, in Chassidis Nigleh. So that's wh- that's why I ended up in Chei Vayitira one year. At that point... Oh, I f- so let, let's take a step back. To- when I came here Tav Shin Lamed David, bec- we, you didn't ask me about it, but I'll chatgil it. But Chazora. So I, Chazora was-

33:42 Speaker 3 I was gonna ask you about it, so-

33:43 Speaker 1 Exactly.

33:43 Speaker 3 So-

33:43 Speaker 1 So that's a Chazora. The only Ch- the only kind of Chazora that's, it was total, total democracy. There's not pshat that somebody was interviewed someone or someone-

33:50 Speaker 3 What, what, what was democracy? Chazora was democracy?

33:53 Speaker 1 Yeah. Democracy means anybody who wants sit, yeah, Rebbe sits down Motzei Shabbos, when I came at least, around 1970, in, in over there. You can see in the pictures. And anybody, nobody's asking you, "Who are you? What do you know? What do you don't know?" Everybody can start to sit down and mix in. Ex- excuse me, the Rebbe said it. I never didn't say this, you know?

34:11 Speaker 3 But I interviewed, um, other people.

34:14 Speaker 1 Yeah.

34:15 Speaker 3 They said there was a hierarchy. Meaning if you, uh, if, if you had something to say and you weren't part of the club-

34:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, what?

34:22 Speaker 3 ... someone would give you a certain look, and then you were, you're intimidated to, to, to say anything. I don't know, is that, is that not your experience?

34:27 Speaker 1 Uh, the, yeah, there is to a degree, but the, obvious- You know, when you go into a new group, and all of a sudden you start talking, they say, "Who are you? Who are you?"

34:33 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

34:33 Speaker 1 Yeah, that's fashteyach, emes. But, uh, but, but, you know, I mean, tachini, the fa- the fact that you mixed in, that, that made you a part of it. N- nobody said to you, "Excuse me, not no longer."

34:43 Speaker 3 Right.

34:43 Speaker 1 Maybe a bit of a reminder. Actually, I remember like in that Rosh Hashanah, Rosh Simchas To- Simchas Torah it was the, it was a three-day Yom Tov, right? It's in three-day Yom Tov Simchas Torah. If you pay attention, there, there was, like, four Farbrengens and that far out in kop because it was also Shabbos Bereishit.

35:01 Speaker 3 Farbrengens, and Sukkot.

35:02 Speaker 1 It goes like this. No, the-

35:03 Speaker 3 Two Farbrengens Shabbos Bereishit.

35:04 Speaker 1 Two Farbrengens Shabbos Bereishit. So first there's a Farbrengen of Friday, uh, Motzei Simchas Torah, the first Farbrengen Motzei Simchas Torah when the Rebbe only made a short Farbrengen. Then Shabbos Bereishit. Oh, oh, no, don't forget. There was also Sh- the first night. There was the first night. The first, the first night you have, uh, uh, keep the, there's, there's the, the Simchas Torah Farbrengen before Hakafot.

35:30 Speaker 3 After Leil Simcha- Yeah, Leil Simchas Torah.

35:31 Speaker 1 Leil Simchas Torah.

35:32 Speaker 3 Then Yom Simchas Torah.

35:32 Speaker 1 Then Yom Simchas Torah. Then Shabbos Bereishit morning, Shabbos Bereishit evening.

35:35 Speaker 3 Right.

35:35 Speaker 1 So you have four Farbrengens. Can you imagine that? So, and, and people on that out in kop when the Rebbe said what. And be- between the Farbrengens they used to, uh, the, uh, Rebbe was go, and, uh, a few Bochurim used to come, uh, listen to him, and, uh, mix in this and that. I remember it like I, uh, I was a child. I was 16 years old. So I, I see a bunch of Bochurim. Uh, in my memory, it's Shalom Duchman, Yossi Echt, with the Rebbe sitting in the, like... I think it was Simchas Torah, one of these Farbrengens. I ran over to hear, to listen. I did, I didn't, I don't think I mixed in, but I wanted to be part of it because of all my ... Like I said, the excitement was from, from the chinuch from before that you wanna hear what the Rebbe said.

36:17 Speaker 3 Right. This is before you're writing hanakos or anything.

36:19 Speaker 1 No, no, no.

36:20 Speaker 3 Yeah, this is right in the beginning.

36:20 Speaker 1 It's nothing with writing hanakos. I'm talking just as a, as a, as a Bochur in '70.

36:24 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm.

36:25 Speaker 1 Then, uh, actually, so what happened? So that was Simchas Torah. Then I, I was, I was interest- First of all, I want to tell you the, that after S- after the Tishrei came Shabbos Bereishit. Tishrei, uh, there is a Muno, Sukkot, Simchat Bet Hashoeva, Mitamor, Shabbos, Shabbos, like, Cheshvan comes, nothing doing.

36:43 Speaker 3 There's no Farbrengens.

36:44 Speaker 1 There's no Farbrengens. It was such a downer . Like it was, uh, Chol Ent. But then I s- I used to write-

36:52 Speaker 3 The Rebbe changed that in the memes.

36:53 Speaker 1 Yeah.

36:53 Speaker 3 He started Farbrengen.

36:54 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

36:55 Speaker 3 yeah.

36:55 Speaker 1 Those things changed later. But the, for me, again, it's also, there was up and, the ups and downs later also. But for me especially, like, uh, if you s- let's say if somebody came in the summer when there's no Farbrengens, and then there's Tishrei, then they go back. But you start on the high, and all of a sudden it's a different-

37:11 Speaker 3 Right.

37:12 Speaker 1 Chol Ent. It was on, so I, I did start writing to my pa- to, in my letters to home because I was, because I was so excited about, about being able to listen to the Rebbe and then the courses and everything. So I used to, I used to write the kids or some- whatever said this secret, that secret, you know?

37:32 Speaker 4 To your father?

37:33 Speaker 1 To my pa- yeah, to my parents. And, uh, to my father. And, um, but then ano- another point is Berel Levin, Rebbe Levin happens to be a shtikel relative of mine. Quite far because his grandmother and my grandfather were cousins. So because of that, the, because of that, he wa- he, he felt a certain kinship, and he, at that point, he was, he was writing letters to my mother. He was writing letters to my mother. So he, he got me also interested in that already then. He didn't, I didn't actually write, but I was, like, involved. He showed me. I wa-

38:09 Speaker 4 You knew the, about the process.

38:10 Speaker 1 I knew about the process a little bit. So then Chabad happened, so I used to come to Chabad, mix in a little bit. And I, I mostly I came to listen to Reb Yehiel, and at that point, Reb Yehiel and Yossi Echt was the main, uh, like, uh, seconding, second to, he was arguing with Reb Yehiel. The Rebbe said this, the Rebbe said it, said it, said this way, that way. When he said it, the first sicha, the second sicha. And so I, I was involved. And, uh, then slowly, slowly I got involved more, and I wrote, I wrote. And then, like I said, Tov Shana Lamed He, Tov Shana Lamed He, my, all my friends went away, went away-

38:50 Speaker 4 So what was this project of writing Lamed He in Altera? That was stam like a-

38:53 Speaker 1 Stam for ourselves, for ourselves.

38:55 Speaker 4 Hanucha chatas for ourselves.

38:56 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, for ourselves.

38:57 Speaker 4 To have a copy from the sichas.

38:58 Speaker 1 Exactly, because there was no Hanucha. Because the people who ordered Hanuchas didn't, uh, it was not produced in time. It wasn't their own. If you look-

39:05 Speaker 4 Right, it was mentioned on a different interview. Why, we'll get into later. I don't know.

39:08 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. It's not, it doesn't matter why. It's okay. The, uh, Tov Shana Lamed He, I had friends who, like I said, they all ran away. Some to Eretz Yisroel, some to Montreal. So I used to write also, send them my, my reshumas. Not like, not full Hanuchas, but you know, kitzurim from the sichas. That, so that got me involved a little bit. And then, and I was, I started only talking to Reb Yehiel also once in a while, asking some sh- you know. So that was Tov Shana Lamed He. And, uh, and David Feldman used to write "Pamysh" with, uh, every, every farbrengen in Hebrew, the kitzur to himself, and send it out to a few friends. We used to have, we, we used to have a friend, mutual friend, uh, we used to have. Itzik Meir Sassover, he was the Emanim then.

39:56 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

39:57 Speaker 1 He's the younger Sassover. He had an older brother, Saul Sassover, who ordered the Emanim and the Ohr Yichov. He was the younger one.

40:03 Speaker 4 Many of them have been, uh, translated into-

40:04 Speaker 1 Sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but I'm, I'm saying, so Sassover was a good friend of mine, and we used to, like, converse and talk. And, uh, he used to help type. Marshall David, David was the... I think David at that point used to write, and then he was to type. We, we, like in a small group, we used to do things together. And, uh, so again, so Lamed He was my year that I was in Chevrah Tehillah, and, uh, learning, learning, uh, a little bit learning, learning the chassidus. But most my, most of my koach already became by the, in the sicha, in the, in what the Rebbe says. Then you have to understand another point, wh- which we'll talk about later, that there's a major, there's a major difference between Shabbos farbreng- Shabbos and Yontif farbrengens and, and, and, and, and, uh, Yemei HaChai. Because Yemei HaChai, because if you knew there was a tape, somehow, at least me and my... You didn't pay, you didn't me- when you listened, "I'd have to remember it." There's a tape, so, so you listen to what is in. You don't apply so as much.

41:08 Speaker 4 You're not working.

41:09 Speaker 1 You're not, not working. You don't apply. In, in, forget, maybe it's a ma'ale. You listen to, instead of trying to memorize it, you listen to the tape more. So there's a ma- so there's a ma- there's a difference. I'll tell you later why it, why it's relevant. Cholev, but then Tov Shana Lamed Vav came. Those years, those years, uh, there was a special incentive for bochurim to go be on Shluchim in Ocean Parkway. Reb Yehiel used to give shiurim on Samach Vav there. And only bochurim got to Ocean Parkway because why they want, because they wanted the older bochurim from the '70s to go to, to, to Ocean Parkway to, to inspire the younger generation. So, so I also apply, applied for that, so to speak. My, uh, and then my chavrusa, Zvi Greenblatt, the Shliach in Russia, in Argentina, he, he convinced Rabbi Mantlik that, that I'm, I'm loyal to the kids. So we, he was also a Chassidus, so we, we went together with a bunch of... There was a group of guy. David Feldman was there, and who else was there? I don't remember. There was a, uh, there was a, I don't remember any other names now. And, uh, so we got, that's how we got to know the younger generation, like, uh, who was the, the, the young class then was, the, there were two classes in, in Mesivta in Ocean Parkway. The old, older I remember from the older class, uh, Yitchok Pus.

42:37 Speaker 4 Mm-hmm.

42:39 Speaker 1 Shimon Aaron Rosenfeld. Arty Buket became later my mechutan. He was from the younger generation. He was... And then we had the Rabbi, uh, Norton, Rabbi Rabkovsky, Rabbi Rabkovsky, and, uh, Bu- Rabbi Buket, Rabbi Ushpo. And the kicker is that, uh, Reb Yehiel gave a shiur in Chassidus, Samach Vav. And the mashpia there was Berel Lipska, actually. Official mashpia of the younger generation was Berel Lipska. So Reb Yehiel used to give us shiur in some, in the Cheider Samach Vav. That's, that's, uh, when we really got, at least me, that's when got really, uh, a chunk of Reb Yehiel's, uh, learning. And, um- And this also Lamed-Vav was also, uh, here the Rebbe starts- started, spoke-- There was a, a lot of farbrengens, especially relative to the Lamed Heh, at-at least in my memory. A lot, a lot of farbrengens Lamed-Vav. It was a Shomu Beris also, but there was a lot of farbrengens. Just remember like, uh, I think Zay nor there, there was, there was a farbrengen. All of a sudden they told us there was a farbrengen wheel National Parkway. We ran on the train to come back. So, uh, we got tri-- Uh, we got, uh, uh, what do you say it? Uh, hitchhike. We kids-

43:59 Speaker 5 Ah

43:59 Speaker 1 ... even failure. And, uh, a lot of times we used to run back and forth because we wanted to not miss the, uh, weekly farbrengen. Shabbats we were here for sure, but even weekdays. And at that point we got involved more. The way in the other interview, somebody spoke about more about like what happened at, uh, Mishpatim Lamed-Vav. There was a-

44:19 Speaker 5 A new order

44:20 Speaker 1 ... a new order in Ha'anochas. So I got involved in it much more.

44:25 Speaker 5 So you, so when the-

44:25 Speaker 1 So at that point-

44:26 Speaker 5 ... new order of Va'ad Ha'anochas Atzim started-

44:28 Speaker 1 Right, right

44:28 Speaker 5 ... you became officially involved.

44:30 Speaker 1 Sort of officially. The truth, it started earlier also a little bit because I, I started already helping to write the old Ha'anochas. They found-

44:38 Speaker 5 The Sichos or the Maamar?

44:39 Speaker 1 Sichos, Sichos.

44:40 Speaker 5 Mm-hmm.

44:40 Speaker 1 They found lately actually, Chaim Shaul told me, he show- showed me, found something I wrote Bereshit Lamed He, Ksav Yad, the Yiddish of farbrengen. I didn't remember even. It looks like I, I sporadically I used to write something. So at that point I got involved much more and, uh, Mishpatim Lamed-Vav was Parashat Mishpatim. Uh, no, no, VaYakhel Pekudei. Mishpatim was the first Sicha. Then the f- uh, VaYakhel Pekudei all of sudden we said that we wanna a-ask the Rebbe questions. We didn't-- It was n-new for us. Uh, what do you say? What do you-- How do you sign? We get to-- So we ask the Rebbe a question, and the Rebbe answered, uh, "Lokach, uh," it was a shaala in Likkutei Sichos. Now it's a Likkut already printed in Likkutei Sichos part nine, but about, uh, about Machshavah, there was Machshavah versus Dibbur, Nissan Tishrei. So the Rebbe wrote in the answer, "Lokach, uh," it's a shaala in Likkutei Sichos part chet dalet. The Rebbe wrote, it says in the Maamar, only is twenty-five years, some number, I don't remember the number. So it inspired us.

45:39 Speaker 5 I don't understand. You asked a shaala on the farbrengen?

45:41 Speaker 1 Asked a shaala on the farbrengen, but it was w-- in Likkutei Sichos talked about it also.

45:45 Speaker 5 It already spoke about it in Likkutei Sichos.

45:46 Speaker 1 No, no, Likkutei Sichos, the question is on Likkutei Sichos also.

45:49 Speaker 5 Okay.

45:49 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe said, "Well, it took us, took you so long to remind yourself to ask the question. Something was printed twenty-

45:53 Speaker 5 So you guys-

45:54 Speaker 1 ... twenty-four years ago"

45:54 Speaker 5 ... recognized the Rebbe is enjoying that, uh-

45:56 Speaker 1 Yeah, yes

45:57 Speaker 5 ... people are asking shaalas in Sichos.

45:58 Speaker 1 Of course. The, the Rebbe was very-- It, it was very-- It gave us some huge boost. The Rebbe answered like Then also-- Then Tzvi-- The, the way we organized Ha'anochas then, again, I don't wanna get into too many details, but Tzvi Grunewald used to write the Maamarim. Shlomo Chaim, Tzvi Grunewald used to write the Maamarim. Shlomo Chaim Donn got over, and, uh, and, uh, D-Dovid Feldman used to write the, the Sichos until the Maamar. And I used to write Sichos after the Maamar.

46:27 Speaker 5 The Shi-- The, the Russian.

46:28 Speaker 1 Russian, Lutavitch, whatever, whatever, the everything. And, uh, and so then after the Rebbe answered us, we got a little more breaks. We started as- asking questions. So in the Maamar you can see it's all printed these days. which is, uh, which is, uh, Shabbat Hagdol I think. Shabbat the Rebbe said in the Maamar, the Rebbe said something that didn't fit, something. So in punkt, that Shabbat, punkt, uh, when I was sitting in the farbrengen, before the farbrengen, person was sitting next to me, Zisl Pekarsky showed me in Ha'terat Zera'im says something similar which also doesn't fit the Ra- the Chumash. So I say, "Eh? Can I ask the Rebbe now in Ha'terat Zera'im?" So-

47:12 Speaker 5 You can ask it on Ha'terat Zera'im.

47:13 Speaker 1 No, but it's also on the Sicha.

47:15 Speaker 5 Right.

47:15 Speaker 1 And now on the Maamar. It's in, on the Maamar also. Somehow connected. So the Rebbe answered the, the Rebbe answered, We never found that Tzemach Tzedek, but later on in Igeret Shkashit it was printed, it looks like the Rebbe-

47:28 Speaker 5 Try and translate what the, what the Rebbe said.

47:30 Speaker 1 The Rebbe said that this kind of, uh, it's, uh, it's, uh, on a Maamar in Ha'terat Zera'im of the Mitteler Rebbe. So the Rebbe says this, uh, prob-- I, that there is probably a s- this type of comment by the Tzemach Tzedek somewhere. But la- but later we found, when Igeret Shkashit was printed, that someone asked the Rebbe that question actually in the yuds, in a letter to the Rebbe, the same question, Ha'terat Zera'im. The Rebbe's, uh, there's no clear answer. I don't remember the answers. Like, that, that was the beginning of, of a situation that we started sort of writing a- asking questions of the Rebbe.

48:02 Speaker 5 Would you look for what to ask or-

48:03 Speaker 1 No, no

48:04 Speaker 5 ... did you take Chabad and understand something-

48:06 Speaker 1 No, no. There's always, you know, the Rebbe spoke so much on so many topics. There was always, uh, things that you can ask. Not-- Didn't look to ask, but we had the break, we got the break to ask.

48:16 Speaker 5 So you would, once you got an answer from the Rebbe, you would write Ha'anucha based with that understanding?

48:20 Speaker 1 Sure. No, but usually it was a, a, usually it wasn't on the, on the general, on the general, uh, the concept of the Maamar, on the detail. Again, don't forget, Rabbi Yelkam was always, always involved, still. He, he always involved him in, in the same pro- We asked him, but he, it's not like we-- He was always, like-

48:38 Speaker 5 Overseeing it

48:38 Speaker 1 ... overseeing it. Not in the di- not in the direct way, but if there was something serious we asked him. And, uh, so the-- If you, if you find, uh, today in Sich-- It's all in Sichot Shkashit, but you'll find in the title Lamed-Vav-Lamed Zayin, you'll see there's a lot of answers from the Rebbe and a lot, and a lot of farbrengens because it was all based on that thing. So, so Lamed-Vav-Lamed Zayin. So then by-- Okay, so Tzvi Grunewald used to write Maamar, but whatever it was, he in the summers used to go to Argentina. So somehow I took over, I, I took over for him. I don't remember exactly how it was decided I, to co- that I-- It's not like I was s- especially knowledgeable or anything. He Sorry. That I, uh, that I took over for him in the summers, so I started writing Maamar in a, in a more organized way. So actually, did I just-- The, I don't remember if it's Lamed-Vav or Lamed Zayin. Okay, so, so the main le-- So, so then the whole Lamed Zayin we start Sichos, Maamar. I mean, uh, I only-- Again, again, like I told before, the although Sichos after, after the Maamar, but I'm, I don't remember if every farbrengen. But the, the important thing is, not, I don't know how important, but the interesting thing is that it comes-- When it came to the tape farbrengens, we were not so medayek in writing them down because-

49:54 Speaker 5 'Cause of the tape

49:55 Speaker 1 ... because it, there's a tape. Anybody wants to, they can listen to the tape. Those days it wasn't as easy as today, but it was still-

50:00 Speaker 5 I think when they did, when they printed Sichos Kodesh-

50:02 Speaker 1 Yeah

50:02 Speaker 5 ... HaCham Shaul talked about it.

50:04 Speaker 1 Yeah.

50:05 Speaker 5 Part of that was to write the Ha'anochas of the weekday-

50:09 Speaker 1 Exactly

50:09 Speaker 5 ... because you guys didn't do it.

50:10 Speaker 1 Exactly.

50:10 Speaker 5 So if they're making a book, they had to write-

50:11 Speaker 1 Yeah

50:12 Speaker 5 ... half of the tape. They did it from tape.

50:13 Speaker 1 Right, from tape. And the, and the Rebbe was very adamant against, against, uh, miluli. So you can't just, uh, ta- they not take a, the direct transcript from the tape.

50:24 Speaker 5 Right. That's what, uh, has to be something you can read.

50:27 Speaker 1 It has to be readable. They have to check the , to fix .

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52:23 Speaker 5 be part of Der Her through your financial support as well through visiting our website, derher.org, or through contacting us to setting up a meeting. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the podcast.

52:35 Speaker 1 I mean, it was a, was a, was a very interesting, intense year. A lot of interesting things happened. We asked the Rebbe about the questions that something interesting happened with, uh, I hope this is close enough, uh, to me that, uh,

54:16 Speaker 5 To go figure out Chabad-

55:45 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Actually get to seem to say, I'm just a memory that I have from those days. So all I'm designing w- we were very involved and, and you can see, you can see in the Anachos and Sechas Kodesh, the, especially in the summer, Pirkei Avos. Ev- almost every Pirkei Avos, he has to ask questions, and the Rebbe answered, and the Rebbe also gave Chalakim. So it's, it was, it was very . Going back lamed vav, actually, I went-- going back to lamed vav, Shvus lamed vav was a, was a very interesting thing. Shvus lamed vav, the Rebbe spoke about tvilas keilim, about tvilas keilim, the Rebbe's chiddush, mechshirin min ha'eish, that, uh, that the keili becomes... It's like, like, like geyrus, because the keili was, was in the hand of a goy. So it, it w- it has m- it was mucher to have, have treif food, and when you take it away from the usuf of a goy to eat, it now it can, it can only have kosher foods. Lachshirin min ha-lachshirin. The dyuk, the Rebbe, according to that, the Rebbe answered the question why we don't, uh, sell-- why we don't tevil the keilim after Pesach, rather by the Sh far keilim, and said, "I stuck it on my Zeide, aber nisht." They disagreed with the Rebbe, what the Sh far keilim said.

56:52 Speaker 6 The Rebbe Zeide, yeah.

56:52 Speaker 1 Yeah, the Rebbe said, "I stuck it, my Zeide," but, uh, disagree. There was then, there was a Dayan Fisher from England came to the Farbrengen. So there, there was a lot of interesting things happened Shvus lamed vav. Some I remember, some not. So it gets lamed zayin, or lamed zayin, but up, later lamed-- the other interesting happened lamed zayin, the maimer, uh, the maimer Shabbos Matis Masei. The Rebbe said, "The maimer, hoya mi de-chiddush beChodesh mi de-Shabbos beShabbatoi." And, uh, s- he spoke about whether we... All these things are printed, I'm just expressing things that the way I experienced them then to give it a little more-

57:31 Speaker 6 Nice

57:31 Speaker 1 ... background. So, um, the, so he asked the gu- so ep- something Rebbe seemed to... The Rebbe said that every, that, that, uh, that on Shabbos they're gonna come to Yerushalayim. Every Shabbos they're gonna go back and forth. There was a sha'ale, "Yesh, yesh, uh, chum min hamevaser?" So he asked the Rebbe, so it was a maimer, I asked the Rebbe the question, and Mitkom-

57:53 Speaker 6 You, you, you wrote-

57:53 Speaker 1 Yeah, because I wrote the maimer. So I asked the Rebbe the question. The Rebbe had a long answer, and the Rebbe, Mimechon Klein said the Rebbe asked him to go to library to find some sefer. Very long answer. It's printed now in, in Maimorim, in Nigun HaTzichis. It's, uh, just was an interesting experience. Another, another interesting experience that happened lamed zayin, Shabbos Ekev. So Shabbos Ekev, so the Rebbe said, the Rebbe said, at least that's what they told us, the Rebbe said there's gonna be no Farbrengen. So Beis Yosef went to, to Camp Gan Yisroel for Shabbos.

58:22 Speaker 6 Right.

58:22 Speaker 1 So Beis Yosef wasn't here, so t- it was a very small Farbrengen, and so the only people who were left were us, the few bochurim. So the sh- maimer, the maimer, uh, Vati Somov El Kosheimi Imach, and the Tzichis, everything we, we wrote basically, Oy iz dikht a lane. But no, it was, it's a memory of a time when the Beis Yosef wasn't there. It, it was time in my experience the Beis Yosef wasn't there, and we had to Oy iz dikht us by ourselves what we had to write and this.

58:51 Speaker 6 But I want to, what I'm curious about-

58:52 Speaker 1 Yeah

58:52 Speaker 6 ... is the process of writing. So how does it get from chazarah to, to... What, what's the process to, to writing the Tzichis, but also specifically I'm also interested in Maimorim? And my question is, do you have to be able to do both? Do you have to be able to remember and, or, or how, how does this work?

59:16 Speaker 1 Uh, it is not klalim, but the, I can tell you how it happened in real life.

59:20 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

59:21 Speaker 1 So in real life, it l- with Moshiach ben, I can tell you from my own personal experience what I remember. Let's say I listen to the Rebbe's maimers, so more or less I remember more or less what he said. I understand a little bit what he said. Then when the Beis Yosef said chazarah motzei Shabbos, you write down, you write down, uh, details. You write down kitzurim of what the Rebbe said. Maimer, if you have the kitzurim, the kitsur to, to mem- Well, and then you sit down to write it down. You, you use both. You use what you remember, and you use the, the foot, the notes, which have short notes. And together, I still have, uh, some Rashaim I stuck out those days, chazarah.

59:57 Speaker 6 Basically this, so, so you're, you have-- If you're writing a hanachah, you have to make sure that you know the whole Tzichis from the Rebbe. And then when the Beis Yosef's doing chazarah, it's like a refresher.

1:00:09 Speaker 1 Right.

1:00:09 Speaker 6 And you can write down, so you're writing down-

1:00:10 Speaker 1 Write down the kitzur.

1:00:11 Speaker 6 Right.

1:00:11 Speaker 1 You write yourself the kitzur.

1:00:12 Speaker 6 You can write the kitsurs-

1:00:13 Speaker 1 Right, right

1:00:13 Speaker 6 ... and from yourself-

1:00:14 Speaker 1 Right

1:00:15 Speaker 6 ... and what you wrote from the Beis Yosef-

1:00:16 Speaker 1 Right, right

1:00:16 Speaker 6 ... you're able to, to start writing a hanachah.

1:00:18 Speaker 1 Not only that, when it comes to Maimorim, you have to also open the books. A Tzichis more, a Tzichis also, but Maimorim even more, because the Rebbe said, "Well," Maimorim Rebbe said, "In Sieinu, open up. What does it say?" And sometimes it says a little differently, so you have to know how to write it, and you make the decision. You sometimes you ask the Rebbe, "Rebbe said it says this. It's a little different." Depends. Sometimes he has to, has such things. Yeah, that, that's an important component of what he's saying. But the truth is that even to write a maimer from the tape, it's also a process, because there's words that the Rebbe says, but then you have, uh, you have to understand what he means and how, how it fits with the, with the sources. The aft- Like I said, after Shavuot, we, we started writing Tzichis, some like BeHeima lamed vav, the Rebbe said, I think this is the first time, or the first time, the first of this, of the BePsukim. Lamed BeHeima was the first or the second, I don't remember. So the Rebbe-- So after that, uh, Rabbi Gona called us, and they said, me and David Feldman, he said, "We have to write up this, the, the Tzichis in a way." I guess it was for the Pardes probably, or the Moed.

1:01:21 Speaker 6 For the publication.

1:01:22 Speaker 1 For the publication. So we sat down and wrote it, and to, to us it was the first experience to write something, not a hanachas, something to w- write it up properly. And the Rebbe was very unhappy with it, so he wrote this, this thing that, uh, that, uh, you have to make sure not to write meluli. Um, I think after I had that very sharp answer, you not, you not, not write meluli, you have to rewrite it in a normal way. And also he said should- shouldn't be in a signet of newspapers and a signet of Chiddushei Torah. And, and, and, and this can applies to everything, especially this, like BeHeima, Sefer to Children, to write that in a way that it's, uh, it's, it's, as I tell you, it's a major challenge. Basically that, that went off, but it was a major teaching experience for us, the way the Rebbe wants the Tzichis should be written.

1:02:09 Speaker 6 Right.

1:02:09 Speaker 1 So Shavuot vav, uh, if I remember correctly, it was Shavuot vav So, Reb Yael kind of had a minhag, not a minhag. Every, every, every, after every Farbrengen Shabbos, one bochur used to come with him home to, to sit Besha- in the Beis HaMidrash Shabbos to, to repeat the sichas between themselves before, before the Chazarah Friday night. So when I came, Yossi Ech was the go-

1:02:32 Speaker 6 Before Friday night?

1:02:33 Speaker 1 Motzei Shabbos, I mean.

1:02:34 Speaker 6 Yeah.

1:02:34 Speaker 1 Before Motzei Shabbos. Uh, so when I came, Yossi Ech was the bochur who used to come to him. Then Yossi Ech got married, but then he, he got married, and then he moved to Shlichus to Israel. So at that point, Yael, Yael asked me to start. So from Lamed Vav until I got married, Mem Alef. So every Shabbos, I, after Farbrengen, I asked to go, have to go, come to him after the Farbrengen by Beis Midrash Shabbos. And we used to repeat the s- he used, he used to repeat the sichas, and I was like his, uh, sort of, uh, what is the, what is the word? Uh, kick, kick, uh-

1:03:07 Speaker 6 Sidekick.

1:03:08 Speaker 1 Sidekick. Not sidekick in a way that, like, uh, asking him if maybe that-

1:03:12 Speaker 6 Pushback or-

1:03:13 Speaker 1 Pushback. Discussing it. Shouldn't, shouldn't talk to the... Rabbi Weinberg used to come sometimes Shabbos also because he used to say the sicha Motzei Shabbos on, on the radio. So he used to, we wanna hear what Reb Yael said. So, so that's some things. From Lamed Vav to Lamed Zayin was a very high-end, uh, situation. Also, by the way, Yechidus, I went to Yechidus also Lamed Vav. El- uh, Ov Lamed Vav, I went into Yechidus. At that point, we came Lamed Dalet, there was announcement, "No more Yechidus, no more Heder. No more, no more such, there's no more such thing as Yechidus, no more Heder." But when I, my, uh, Lamed Vav was my 19 Hevralderes, I came to Le- Leibel Gorner. First of all, for my 18 Hevralderes, those days, you had to, I write a letter, uh, now settle to the Rebbe that you want to start learning Raminut Tam. That was the minhag then. At age 18, he asked the Rebbe. But when my 19 Hevralderes, I told Leibel Gorner, "It's true, the Hevralderes, but I ne- I was never in Yechidus. I wanna go on Yechidus for once." So on Chodesh, what was it? Probably it was Parshas Re'eh, because the Rebbe mentioned the Parshas Re'eh. Probably the end of Ov or beginning of El- yeah, the end of Ov, I think. I went, Toshlamed Vav, I went into Yechidus. And the Rebbe told me a few interesting things.

1:04:26 Speaker 6 What?

1:04:27 Speaker 1 What? Uh, the Rebbe spoke about, about three things, the importance of Shemiras Ha'sdorim, because obviously I wasn't Shemiras Ha'sdorim. But, uh-

1:04:41 Speaker 6 And the Rebbe had a report about it.

1:04:43 Speaker 1 Yeah. No, and I wrote myself to the Rebbe that I'm having a hard time. It's a big challenge for me. And the Rebbe spoke very strongly how it's important, Shemiras Ha'sdorim. Mitztzoyim, that, uh, I wrote to the Rebbe that I have a hard time doing Mitztzoyim, and he told me, he also, again, in code, he said that it's important.

1:05:03 Speaker 6 What did the Rebbe say?

1:05:04 Speaker 1 That, I think the Rebbe said that, uh, you have to feel that you got the Koach of the Rabbeim, or something like that. And the third thing I asked the Rebbe was about, about, um, memory, that, that I felt that I don't remember now long. Now long Gemara, and I said, "I don't remember everything."

1:05:25 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

1:05:26 Speaker 1 So Rebbe said, the Rebbe said something interesting, that you should, every time you finish learning something, you should write down for yourself, in short, the ta- thechtechen. He said something, "Kuk afen zeiger," like every 10 minutes or something. Write down to yourself the Kitz of what you wrote and, and, and cancel it, what, what the Kitz of what you wrote. That will help you me- memorize things.

1:05:46 Speaker 6 It's interesting.

1:05:47 Speaker 1 Interesting. Then the, the, when the Rebbe in Yechidus used to go with the pen, with the pencil, go to, on, it's, first he wrote, settled once, and then he went back with the pencil on everything he wrote. And so then he came, took my name. When he put it to my name, he says, he said since he came from a Cherem HaSakah Basil, and there he had a hard time. There was, it was, it was hard to, to be, to She- Shemiras Ha'sdorim. It's, and here you came out of this, you have to utilize the fact that you, that you are now in a s- in a state that you can do it. You have to u- you have to take advantage of it.

1:06:20 Speaker 6 So you have to take advantage and also, like, appreciate it.

1:06:23 Speaker 1 Not appreciate. Use it. Use it.

1:06:25 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

1:06:25 Speaker 1 That's generally I remember from that Yechidus. Okay. Going back. We're gonna have to go through this.

1:06:29 Speaker 6 That's a little bit, that's a little bit more than a typical, uh, bochur at the time, I think.

1:06:33 Speaker 1 I don't know. No, but yeah, but so- somebody told me, somebody told me once the Rebbe used to say that to, uh, to people who came from Rosh.

1:06:40 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

1:06:41 Speaker 1 Somebody told me that once. Okay. Cholev, Chazal minainu. Uh, so I want, what I want to tell you that all of a s- Lamed Ches, after the s- after, what happened, Lamed-- uh, Simchas Torah Lamed Ches-

1:06:52 Speaker 6 After the Rebbe's heart attack.

1:06:53 Speaker 1 Yeah. So the, uh, the whole thing changed because there was no more Shabbos Farbrengens. Do you remember what I told you earlier? The big Koach was in Shabbos Farbrengens because you have to memorize it. So the whole idea of memorizing-

1:07:04 Speaker 6 'Cause the Rebbe was Farbrenging Motzei Shabbos instead of-

1:07:06 Speaker 1 Everything Motzei Shabbos.

1:07:07 Speaker 6 -on the tape.

1:07:07 Speaker 1 So there was no, everything was on tape. So that part, it was a little bit of, in a way, a letdown. There was a malei on the tape, the chisod. We didn't have that experience of sitting with Chazarah and Koch Zach and try to understand what the Rebbe said. The truth, in the beginning, when, when the Rebbe was, the, the few f- the few Shabbos when the Rebbe was Maggia, I was sitting with Reb Yael, typing his, uh, what he wrote, helping with Maamer Kehos.

1:07:32 Speaker 6 Yeah, 'cause the f- first few weeks the Rebbe wanted, the Rebbe wanted to be Maggia.

1:07:34 Speaker 1 The Rebbe was Maggia everything, but there was ti- uh, yeah, the Rebbe was Maggia. The, uh, Sh- uh, Simchas Torah, the Vayeshev, Vayelech Lecha, Vayechi, Chai Sar, then stopped after a while. So, so in a way, that was a little bit of a, a downer because the Koach, you know, like I said, like I explained before, when, when something you have to memorize, so the, there's a Koach. People, "Hey, the, do you remember the Rebbe said this? When he said it?" But now it, everything's on tape, so, so if you wanna listen, go listen to the tape. The, there was a little, uh, less... People, uh, we all listened to the tapes, but it wasn't the same. It wasn't the same Koach. There was no sitting with Chazarah and saying, "The Rebbe said this, the Rebbe said..." It remained Dos V'shals. What's the Pshat? And so there was a little bit of, uh, you understand? So that- So, so from ta- basically from Tammuz lamed tes till Tav Shin mem, till the Rebbe started farbrengen Shabbosim again, this, the whole iliśmy changed, changed the form. It was more taking tapes and rewriting them. So there was, there was no push, like we said earlier, that "I need to listen tape." "Okay, people can listen tapes." You don't feel the iliśmy today.

1:08:39 Speaker 6 Did they do chazarah then?

1:08:40 Speaker 1 No, there was no chazarah.

1:08:41 Speaker 6 No chazarah.

1:08:42 Speaker 1 No chazarah. Exactly. Then Pesach lamed tes, David Feldman went to Israel, and so after Pesach lamed tes, in a way, I felt I was left alone. I was the only... I mean, obviously there was a bunch of guys around, but I, I, I wrote the sicha, I wrote the maamar, and not only that, but the Seder lamed tes, the Seder was a Seder in Farband. The Rebbe came, so, uh, I think it was Farband already. So I, I, I wrote down what the Rebbe said then also.

1:09:11 Speaker 6 When the Rebbe came to visit the

1:09:12 Speaker 1 The Rebbe came to visit the Bocher. That, that's, that's a memory I have from lamed tes. Then, but, uh, but the maamar, we still wrote the maamar. At that point, I think it was on... At that point, I was, I don't know what happened, but the f- there, there was Feit, you know Feit Levin from Australia. So Feit Levin at that point got involved also in, in, uh, in writing the maamarim a little bit for a little while. Uh, lamed tes, the end of lamed tes, my, my sister got married in Israel, so I went for a few, for a few months to Israel, and because there was tapes, so, so I didn't feel that much that I'm missing that much because I can listen back. So a shiur, you got a shiur in here. I mean, he missed the 770, but, but the, like the actual sichas-

1:09:59 Speaker 6 You're saying if, if you were, if it wasn't la- if the Rebbe was farbrengen every Shabbos, you wouldn't leave for so long.

1:10:04 Speaker 1 I wouldn't leave for such a long time.

1:10:05 Speaker 6 Yeah.

1:10:05 Speaker 1 You feel like you can hear everything anyways. It's a funny, it's, it's like go- looking back, it's a fu- it's a funny type of thing, but that's, that's how it felt then.

1:10:12 Speaker 6 Everything's, everything's lefiaerach, right?

1:10:14 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. It's all lefiaerach.

1:10:15 Speaker 6 Yeah.

1:10:16 Speaker 1 Then, then there was, I think, the first Shabbos, if I remember correctly, the first Shabbos farbrengen was Bamidbar, Erev Shavuos, uh, Tav Shin lamed tes, if I remember correctly. It was Erev Shavuos. Bamidbar was, I think, when it was farbrengen. There was other things I did was I w- uh, at one point, the, in those, in those days, you know, I remember during the, the long, uh, Yom Tov farbrengens after, after Tzes HaChov, somebody used to write it down. So it was Shalom Ber Lavit, HaGodol, used to write it down, and, uh, Zerela Katz. The two of them used to write down.

1:10:47 Speaker 6 This is, this is before your times?

1:10:49 Speaker 1 No, no, during my times. During farbrengen, during farbrengen-

1:10:53 Speaker 6 Okay

1:10:53 Speaker 1 ... they used to prepare from before Shabbos under the table, a pen and a paper, and the minute, uh, Tzes HaChov came, they started writing down the kitsa for themselves.

1:11:01 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

1:11:02 Speaker 1 And then, then beChazarah, I think beChazarah, Yaakov used to look. It helps to remember, because there was no tape, but, but, uh, the, the, the, it was written down. But later on, that, that's, there was a big Shin Yesdi Bereshit after, after the lamed tes thing. For example, lamed vav, lamed zayin, I used to sit, I used to sit on the side near, uh, a f- a f- a few rows below the, the, the center, more closer to mizrach. But then after the whole Shin Yesdi Bereshit, there was no more farbrengen that you... But first of all, tape farbrengen, how it doesn't matter. Even there's a, a mic, it doesn't matter where you sit. You can hear anywhere.

1:11:41 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

1:11:41 Speaker 1 So again, the, all these things affected. That's what I think that, uh, uh, what, what did I start saying? That, so then at that point, I, I got myself a place, mamish at end of the shvil, in a way that I was bending and I couldn't see the Rebbe, Beshatz.

1:11:55 Speaker 6 When the Rebbe started farbrengen again.

1:11:57 Speaker 1 Again, yeah, yeah.

1:11:57 Speaker 6 Yeah.

1:11:57 Speaker 1 The Rebbe started farbrengen again. So I, I was bending. I, I couldn't see the Rebbe when the Rebbe spoke. Only between the sichas, I used to pick up my head. But I remember the, when the Rebbe said a maamar, everybody stood up. He also stopped, so the Rebbe was mamish face to face with me. It was very, it was scary. And like I said, be- later, I started writing also, Beshatz, in the Yom Tov farbrengens. I remember one Yom Tov farbrengen, the Rebbe says a maamar, and I'm mamish face to face, closer than I am with you now even, I think. And I sit, and I stand. The Rebbe's eyes are closed, and I stand, and I write. You can imagine that it's-

1:12:32 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm

1:12:32 Speaker 1 ... looking back, it's quite, uh, interesting. That was one pa- part.

1:12:39 Speaker 6 So later on, um, when did you get married?

1:12:42 Speaker 1 Mem Alef.

1:12:43 Speaker 6 Mem Alef.

1:12:43 Speaker 1 Elul Mem Alef.

1:12:44 Speaker 6 So, so the hanachos was usually like, uh, a nachas-

1:12:48 Speaker 1 No, no, but, but then at that point, t- because of this, one of the results of Tav Shin lamed tes, so, so Tav Shin lamed tes, Tishrei, uh, winter, Kislev, David Feldman got married. He became already a, like he got married, and like I said, there was no, there, there, there was no rush to... They give, still gave out hanachos, but there was no pressure.

1:13:09 Speaker 6 'Cause it was on tape.

1:13:10 Speaker 1 It was on tape. So David Feldman got married, and then he decided to go on shlichus. Again, he goes on shlichus. He went on shlichus, and then that's when Siman took over hanachos. Siman started writing hanachos in, in Russian, Yiddish, or in Yiddish, from Tav Shin mem. Beginning of Tav Shin mem, I think his first was, uh, uh, it's, uh, Cheshvan. I think Cheshvan, Tav Shin mem. So Siman's, at, at that point, the hanachos really became Siman. But, uh, but I continued writing the maamarim.

1:13:36 Speaker 6 Always?

1:13:37 Speaker 1 Yeah. I mean, but me and Shalom, it's really, I say I. I wrote, the way it worked was Motzei Shabbos, I used to write down the nacha potis right away, and it was printed in Shabbos morning. Every Mo- Sunday morning, everybody had the nacha potis from Shabbos. And then Shalom Hakohen would look it over, and he added, he, he added me- from memory stuff that he remembered. I mean, I wrote also from chazarah, but he also added more, he make it like it should make more sense, it should be more organized. He also edited, so to speak.

1:14:03 Speaker 6 Right.

1:14:04 Speaker 1 Then the hanacha came out with Maamar Hakomos, step two.

1:14:09 Speaker 6 So the maamarim-

1:14:12 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:14:12 Speaker 6 ... Vaadan Achas Atzumim-

1:14:14 Speaker 1 Yes

1:14:14 Speaker 6 ... didn't do maamarim?

1:14:15 Speaker 1 That's Vaadan Achas Atzumim. That's what I'm saying. Siman took it over, and together they-

1:14:18 Speaker 6 He never did maamarim.

1:14:19 Speaker 1 What?

1:14:20 Speaker 6 He never did the maamarim.

1:14:21 Speaker 1 No, he never, he himself did not... I wrote maamarim for Vaadan Achas Atzumim.

1:14:24 Speaker 6 And then later when there was-

1:14:25 Speaker 1 What?

1:14:25 Speaker 6 When it became L'chok, and after-

1:14:27 Speaker 1 So, so he, so he has to give it to L'chok, the, the same thing.

1:14:30 Speaker 6 So there's only one ma-

1:14:31 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:14:31 Speaker 6 ... there's, there's two hanachos of the sichas, but there's only one hanacha of the maamarim.

1:14:33 Speaker 1 Yeah, one hanacha of the maamar. Right, yeah.

1:14:35 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm. And then you also got involved in, in, in the sichas, no? In Vaad Hachadas Sichas.

1:14:40 Speaker 1 No, that's later. Around Pesach time, around Nisan time, or E- or other time, Tav Shin mem Alef, I was a bocher, since I was 17. Leib Halpern comes over to me, and he says that a lot of the sichas feel that they don't have enough, uh, they don't have enough, uh, people working, and then, and, and it's a lot of pressure, so they need another hand to help.

1:15:00 Speaker 6 So we, so we need to give a little bit of a hakdama here that-

1:15:03 Speaker 1 What?

1:15:03 Speaker 6 ... there's another department of sichas that's happening-

1:15:05 Speaker 1 It's called Likutey Sichos

1:15:06 Speaker 6 ... all, all the time. Likutey Sichos. It has nothing to do-

1:15:08 Speaker 1 It has nothing to do with hanachos. Likutey Sichos means-

1:15:10 Speaker 6 It has nothing to do with, it has nothing to do with the farbrengens of, uh, that are happening now.

1:15:12 Speaker 1 The current farbrengens.

1:15:12 Speaker 6 Right.

1:15:13 Speaker 1 Yeah. This means Likutey Sichos, they, they take sichas previous years and rework them in a way that is a topic, not as a, not as a transcript of what the Rebbe said. They take a topic that the Rebbe discusses, sometimes more than one farbrengen, and they turn it into, like, an, in ma- in matter of term called an essay, uh, or the more full terms, a, a drush, a pilpul, or, uh, uh, the, uh, a, a maimer torani. And it was in Yiddish those days, so, so that's Likutei Sichos. It's a separate being. It's a separate version. It's, it, it, it involves more research because you have to go up to all the sources. It's not you just say exactly what the Rebbe said. You, you lo- you compare what the Rebbe said to what he said in other places, and you... It's, it's, it's a much more complicated, uh, process. So that point, uh, so a lot of us Sichas asked me to get involved, help them also in Likutei Sichos. The first thing I helped was with the Minhagim Birkat Hachama. The question Memaleh with Birkat Hachama said they gave out in Likut Minag- Minhagim Chabad al pinos, al pi Minhag Chabad based on what the Rebbe spoke, uh, Yud Gimmel. The question Yud Gimmel, the Rebbe spoke about it. So that was the first project I was involved in. Then later, I started helping the Likutei Sichos itself, take a Likut, take a Sicha from the old years, and I did it

1:16:31 Speaker 1 for-

1:16:31 Speaker 6 So what was your job?

1:16:32 Speaker 1 Same job as everybody else. Take a Sicha, prepare a Sicha for Shabbos, but the way it works, it's not, the way it worked was not to not use Sicha and that's it. One person writes, and the others look it over, edit it.

1:16:42 Speaker 6 So what did you do? You wrote or you edited?

1:16:43 Speaker 1 Yeah, I wrote. I wrote.

1:16:45 Speaker 6 Which halacha was that?

1:16:47 Speaker 1 From chaf to aleph dalet. From mem alef to mem, mem gimmel. Then after mem gimmel, uh, I was, uh, let go. So in other words, it, uh, uh, my, the, the work was too intense for me. At that point, I, I decided I got some. And I was continuing working in, uh, uh, writing my Morim. It, it, it's parallel which can still-

1:17:08 Speaker 6 Can you tell me, it was like, so then the answers from the Rebbe-

1:17:14 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:17:14 Speaker 6 So that's a whole another involvement.

1:17:15 Speaker 1 Right.

1:17:15 Speaker 6 You're much more involved with the Rebbe with the, with the Sichas 'cause there was-

1:17:18 Speaker 1 In a way, yeah

1:17:19 Speaker 6 Like, yeah, everything.

1:17:19 Speaker 1 With a lot of hagah, sure, but there was no conversation going on.

1:17:22 Speaker 6 They didn't ask questions?

1:17:23 Speaker 1 Of course. Of course they asked questions. You know, in other words, the Sichas-

1:17:28 Speaker 6 So they were similar to the Hanhos.

1:17:30 Speaker 1 It's not, it's similar in a way. The, uh, the habit itself is similar, and the Rebbe's involvement was much more. The Rebbe's magiya and the-

1:17:36 Speaker 6 In the Sichas

1:17:37 Speaker 1 ... Sichas.

1:17:37 Speaker 6 Likutei Sichos.

1:17:38 Speaker 1 At the same time, by the way, at the same time when I came in, there was also ta- the Rebbe wanted Tanya Mador Kamah. So the, Rabbi of Sichas also was involved in doing Tanya Mador Kamah, and, uh, and people push, like, the Rebbe said himself in the farbrengen, "Vayishlach, uh, Mem Beis," that, uh, that the families, everybody, they didn't sleep because Rebbe wanted it out very fast, so it was a lot of Tanya Mador Kamah also. It was good. It was a lot of hard work, interesting work, a different type of work. But again, okay, uh-

1:18:10 Speaker 6 So let me ask you-

1:18:11 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:18:12 Speaker 6 ... what, I'm interested in the, your relationship with the Rebbe Yerucham. Um, I understand that the Rebbe had a whole another project that the Rebbe gave him to do, Sefer Ha-Erchim.

1:18:24 Speaker 1 Right.

1:18:25 Speaker 6 On Chassidus.

1:18:26 Speaker 1 Right.

1:18:27 Speaker 6 And I don't know if you were officially involved, or he would talk to you about it. May- may- maybe you can-

1:18:31 Speaker 1 No, the honest-

1:18:32 Speaker 6 Tell me a little bit about it

1:18:32 Speaker 1 ... the truth is I wasn't that involved in Sefer Ha-Erchim, but the Rebbe was such a perfectionist, when talking back to my Morim, the Rebbe, a lot of times the Rebbe would start, "Write my Morim for hagah." So he starts telling me, "Write, please write this, this paragraph." So I write it. He takes it. He erases the whole thing, writes his own But he needed, he needed something. He needed something to, to-

1:18:54 Speaker 6 It's easier to schlag up.

1:18:55 Speaker 1 It's easier to schlag. Easier, but he, he's, he was a unique mind, so he's also a perfectionist. So the same thing with Sefer Ha-Erchim. Yeah, maybe a few-- I wasn't that really involved in Sefer Ha-Erchim. A few, few, few individual times he called me up, he says, "There's one paragraph I must... Yeah, maybe you can help me write it." So I write it for him, and obviously he writes something. He, he erases it and writes something else, but he needed me to write it in order for him to be able to write his. Sure, that's it. Fine. There's other things I was involved with the Rebbe later on, right after Gimmel Tammuz. Uh, we got, Rebbe often calls me, says, "I want to start giving out the Rebbe's Torah in a different format, and I want you to help me." And those, that's, I think computers were not... Yeah, there was computers already, but, uh, so he came, he used to come to my house, and in every word, has to type and he used to say, "Let's change it." He-

1:19:46 Speaker 6 What are you talking about? What is this?

1:19:47 Speaker 1 So we're talking two contrasting came out. One is Eidus Chok U'Mishpatim B'Mishnas HaRebbe, and one is Ma'ayanot B'Mishnas HaRebbe. So he, we, uh, we, a lot of, a lot of, uh, a lot of work went into every word, but like he's a, you can see it in Sefer Ha-Erchim. It took him such a long time to, because he was a, he was a perfectionist, and the, m- besides being a perfectionist, he also, he assumed that when people read his text the way he reads other texts, that every word, every, oh, he says, "B'dyuk mamash." See, it, it, because he sees depth in every... And he thinks people read him the same way. So mainly he, he, he writes about no, no, no. "If you write it that way, people may make the mistake that it means not exactly that, so you have to write it differently." Like, "B'dyuk iz al tzahala af loopisht."

1:20:33 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

1:20:34 Speaker 1 And, uh, so, so the same thing what was, was with this contrasting, bis gezogez ikratst. So the first one, Eidus Chok U'Mishpatim was because it was the, because the Gimmel Tammuz happened on Chuk, Parshas Chukas, Mishnah Chuk. That's what he wr- he wrote in his own hagadah. Anyway, but, but it petered out somehow later, and that, that was, uh, these two, and then, then there was Machshavo Chassidus, which he calls Merhusn shel Yichud. So he, he spoke about it by phone, and people already pub- published books from it, but he decided he wants to write his own version of it. Also, hours and hours, we sat in every word. There, there's a lot of... It was an interesting experience, the way he, he paid attention to every detail and every- and he was-- wanted to make sure that there was a s-source for everything. Remember in s- I think it was, it, I think in my Hanukkah, the two thing, uh, it also in both of the places, he said, "There's something I remember the Rebbe saying that I can't find a source for it, but I remember 100% the Rebbe said it." Bothered him that he didn't remember where.

1:21:32 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

1:21:33 Speaker 1 But so he wrote, "I don't remember what the... I don't remember" -- I don't even-- "what was exactly the kvedsch that, that he couldn't find a source." But, but I think the one thing I told him, "Hey, what about this? This ob-" He says, "It's obvious, but the Rebbe didn't say it. I'm not writing it. I'm writing what only what the Rebbe said." He's a daykan in this way. Um-

1:21:50 Speaker 6 Is there any, um, is there anything we... That in the way you did the Hankkahs-

1:21:55 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

1:21:56 Speaker 6 ... like in hindsight, something that you would do differently if you would ha- if you'd be doing it now?

1:22:01 Speaker 1 Hmm. It, what you're saying is the, all, the, all, the understatement of, of the millennium. In other words, I can't see myself writing this anymore, now. 'Cause now when I read and I see, when I read and listen, I, I see so much more that I missed, that I, I can't even relate to, to the way I wrote it then, to the way I... It's a different world.

1:22:26 Speaker 6 You're saying 'cause you're older and you know more?

1:22:28 Speaker 1 Probably, maybe that. Also because, uh, because I know more, and also because I, I, I'm a different person. It's not the same. When you're young and you're very focused on, on just write whatever is said and gehen, gehen weiter. Today, you look more for nuance and depth, what, what, what-

1:22:43 Speaker 6 You're saying it, it, it, it needed a certain like pshtus-

1:22:46 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:22:46 Speaker 6 ... in order to, in order to do like-

1:22:48 Speaker 1 To be able to just write what I was said and gehen weiter. But later, gesetz his own because, because I, I'm sure I missed a lot of nuances because I didn't have the, I didn't have the, for sure, I didn't have the knowledge and, and the capacity to, to fi- to exact, to-

1:23:04 Speaker 6 Right. I mean, anyone will tell you, if you learn something-

1:23:07 Speaker 1 Right

1:23:07 Speaker 6 ... every decade, if you learn it again, it's a whole new limit.

1:23:09 Speaker 1 Discover new, discover new things. Yeah.

1:23:12 Speaker 6 Um, so may- may- I gu- maybe that's what was needed. And it's interesting-

1:23:17 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm not-

1:23:18 Speaker 6 It's interesting that Hankkahs was like a-

1:23:20 Speaker 1 But the, but the truth is, it, it, it's, I wasn't, l'choeha I wasn't, uh, different in the... The only difference what, that happened when, since we started Hanukka was until then, every year or two, the people who did it went onto their own lives. Everybody did their own life. You know, they discover, they, they, they did as a, as a bochurim, you know. They do it, the course of the Rebbe's sichas and my moreim do it and gehen weiter. But what, what the, the Hanukka started a situation that a person does it, it's almost like shlichus for life. This is who you are, and you stay like that. So like Dovid did it, and Simon did it. In a way, I did it also when we got to my morah. You know?

1:23:57 Speaker 6 So you did it all the way till the, till-

1:23:58 Speaker 1 Till, yeah, till the end. But again, it came to anytime that the, uh, Gail always had precedent. If he wants to write a maamer, for sure he should, he will, he will write it. Whenever he wanted to write a maamer-

1:24:07 Speaker 6 Once in a while, he would want, decide he wanted-

1:24:08 Speaker 1 Yeah, once in a while, either because they like the maamer, whatever. And sometimes, uh, there was, there was once or twice, I wasn't there, so Shamai told me about it. It was all about, like I said... But it was a, it was like you devote yourself. This is, this is your calling in a way, what we start to like see. Like how Mazzeh still writes. But in the, in the early, in the chofes, all the people who wrote, like, uh, Label Shapira, all these, he wrote his, my sichas and everything beautiful, but then, then he went, he moved on in life, as they say, you know?

1:24:39 Speaker 6 So what would you say is the... You know, if you look at all the memorer, because it's interesting that memorer by the Rebbe-

1:24:52 Speaker 1 Mm-hmm

1:24:52 Speaker 6 ... is like a, a detail. By, by, by the previous Rebbe, mem- memorer is the whole thing.

1:24:58 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:24:59 Speaker 6 By the Rebbe, it's, it's like a detail, you know? It's a, in a four-hour fabling, and it's, it's probably sometimes the shortest part of it.

1:25:04 Speaker 1 Right. Right.

1:25:06 Speaker 6 So I'm curious, it doesn't have to be the memorer only, but I'm curious, what is like, how would you describe the Rebbe's... I mean, when you look at all the memorer, all the Rebbe, what is the Rebbe's, like what is the contribution of, of the Rebbe, uh, uh, like to Legavi, the, the, but Chassidus already existed before that.

1:25:26 Speaker 1 It's, it's, it's too, it's too, uh, the question's too, uh, what do you, what is the word? Too ambitious a question to answer, like as if I, I, I figured it all out. The, you know, there's a sicha of the Friediker Rebbe that he says, a sicha, that, that, that in order to go into the Fried- the, the Alter Rebbe's chadorim, you have to be bochy in, uh, all these things. In other words, none of us understand what he's saying, really. S- the Rebbe spoke in such a way that to really understand the depth of what he's saying, you, you needed a lot of background. But, and, and but you see, we don't have that much han- When you look at Hanukkahs, let's say, of the, of the, of the other Rebbe, of the previous, I mean, I, it's, it's, it's a contained thing. You know, the Rebbe spoke very bremes sometimes to my morah, and he said, he said, "Sav, vod over dorten," and, and, and you have to really understand the depth. It's, it's, it's a, another way of saying it, but like, it's like it's too... It's a question that can be answered, uh, in like, in, in, in a, in a satisfactory way. At least I can't answer it in a way that I can define exactly what is the chidush. But the Rebbe expected, the Rebbe, the, I think the Rebbe expected, he said the, people should not, the chidush, the parasha. The Rebbe expected when he spoke, he expected

1:26:49 Speaker 1 that people know all the background. There was a certain expectation. I think so.

1:26:53 Speaker 6 When you compare the, when you compare the sichas and the memoren-

1:26:55 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:26:55 Speaker 6 ... someone told me about the Mogan maybe.

1:26:57 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah.

1:26:58 Speaker 6 Um, the sichas, the Rebbe is laying everything out for you.

1:27:04 Speaker 1 Right.

1:27:05 Speaker 6 In the, the Rashbi sicha is less maybe, but-

1:27:08 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:27:08 Speaker 6 ... you know, definitely in the first part of the fabling it But my, my madam, it's like almost you can feel that the Rebbe is relying, like this is for a seasoned person that, that, that, that-

1:27:18 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:27:18 Speaker 6 ... has a background in Chassidus and-

1:27:20 Speaker 1 Right. Like-

1:27:20 Speaker 6 Like, and, and it sound- like the Rebbe's coming to say, like, the, the word, the word.

1:27:23 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:27:24 Speaker 6 You know? Does that, that make sense?

1:27:25 Speaker 1 Yes, yes, and sometimes it's, it's, you have to work hard to figure out what the word is even. So-

1:27:30 Speaker 6 And, and then, and the lady, and the mems like became more harder.

1:27:33 Speaker 1 Yeah, and the mems was mamash, kitson nimrot, mamash.

1:27:36 Speaker 6 They're mamash short. They're very short.

1:27:37 Speaker 1 Very short, yeah. Uh, like it's a, it's a behaldi history the way Chassidus, the, if you look Chassidus in general, the develop, you can look sometimes, uh, they did it some, to some Maimon. If you look at Maimon, the way all the Rabbeim, the same Maimon said the same Maimon, everybody added. So the way, let's say, the Friediker Rebbe, he repeats everything the one before him said, and then he adds a few questions there, right? The Rebbe didn't, uh, in the later years especially, didn't repeat everything that's said. He just, uh, he just, uh, repeated a few nekudos, and then he added whatever he added, and that's it. There was no-

1:28:13 Speaker 6 So the structure's not so clear, you're saying.

1:28:15 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:28:15 Speaker 6 The, the-

1:28:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. But, uh, but I don't, I... It's, it's one of these ar- areas that I'm still in the middle of figuring out. That is the truth. Right? It's still ever... The, it's not like I have it figured out.

1:28:25 Speaker 6 So maybe you could say that the Rebbe also was saying in Yanuk Chassidus, in the Sichas.

1:28:30 Speaker 1 That may be, that may be really true.

1:28:31 Speaker 6 Like, uh, uh, to me, I don't know if it makes any sense, I'm asking you, but to me it seems like my ma- a ma- everything was about a me- about a Maimon. And it seems by the Rebbe, it's a farbrengen. So the Rebbe could... First of all, every time the Rebbe says Maimon, very often the Rebbe started explaining things in the Sicha afterwards about the Maimon.

1:28:48 Speaker 1 Right, right, right.

1:28:49 Speaker 6 So it's one, it's one, you know, unit. The, it's a farbrengen. In the farbrengen, there's a Mai-

1:28:55 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:28:55 Speaker 6 ... the Sicha could have more Chassidus than the Maimon, you know? Whatever could-

1:28:58 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:28:58 Speaker 6 ... that make sense?

1:28:59 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, true. No, the, what's unique about the Maimon, the Maimon, Maimon is limited to the structure the way it was established by the ear- by the previous Rabbeim. So the, the questions are more or less the same. Even the answers are more or less the same, and the Mamore Chazal, the quotes are the same, and it's all, it's all within a certain structure. In the Sichas, more free, just discusses the concept without being limited by the, by the structure of the previous, uh, Rabbeim. So it's a different way of think- saying things. But in the Sichas, it, the Sichas is more about c- certain sugyas. A Maimon is usually conne- connected to a, to a specific, uh, the or concept. It's different. Uh, but in, when you get Likutei Sichos, as later, that was Tishri mem dalet, but then Tishri mem zayin, I got involved because then Likutei Sichos started coming out in Hebrew. So then I worked... Uh, there, it's a different type of... I, I didn't write Sichas. I just, I was one of the editors to edit the, the, the Lashon Kodesh.

1:29:57 Speaker 6 The, the, the Lashon?

1:29:58 Speaker 1 The Lashon. But obviously, when I did the Lashon, I also gave. If I had a whole entire, I also gave one.

1:30:03 Speaker 6 Right. I have a question for you. The, the Rashi Sichas and the Ha'aras and the, the Rebbe's father and the Siyata-

1:30:10 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:30:10 Speaker 6 ... all that, it seems to me also that the Rebbe, almost like the Mayim Aharon, that the Rebbe said it. Like-

1:30:17 Speaker 1 Depends when

1:30:18 Speaker 6 ... it, it needs to be, like, this can definitely be elaborated, I'm just telling to-

1:30:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, but the truth is, it's also, it, it was, it, it, uh, just like with Maimon, the first 10 years, till Tishri, Tishri, the Maimon were pa- quite elaborate. Only late-

1:30:30 Speaker 6 I'm talking about later years

1:30:31 Speaker 1 ... the same thing-

1:30:31 Speaker 6 Mems

1:30:32 Speaker 1 ... the same thing can say about the Rashi. Ear- in the first five, 10 years of Rashis, the Rebbe was much more invo-- uh, m- m- m- you know, he, he got involved much more. Remember the story, he asked, uh, Yaffi to count the questions. It was, he was more involved. The later, slowly, the later years was a little less. He was more, more bekitza, baremes. You're right. Likutei Yehuda-Itzhak naturally. Pirke Avos has its own way. And then there was Rambam, you know. But in other words, some of them he looked almost like he says it because it's part of the process. You have to talk about the Rambam. And sometimes he spoke with, like he, he appear in the Rambam. He, he, it's like an inion to, of a viral Rambam.

1:31:10 Speaker 6 Right. It's like it depends-

1:31:11 Speaker 1 It's sim-

1:31:11 Speaker 6 So you're saying that with the years, that changed

1:31:12 Speaker 1 ... yeah, I, I think it changed with the years.

1:31:14 Speaker 6 But the, the first Sichas-

1:31:15 Speaker 1 What?

1:31:16 Speaker 6 It looks like to me also, and like in the mems, like the main farbrengen is, is till, is till the Maimon.

1:31:21 Speaker 1 It all, uh, they said when I came, when I came here as a bachur, they always told me the, the main farbrengen is really before the Maimon. That's what people told me al- even then.

1:31:28 Speaker 6 Even though most of the Torah, quote-unquote-

1:31:30 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:31:30 Speaker 6 ... is, is, is-

1:31:30 Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly

1:31:31 Speaker 6 ... the second part

1:31:31 Speaker 1 'Cause the farbrengen, that, that's when the Rebbe spoke about the, the, the, what we say, what the farbrengen is to, in, what we call in English inspiring, the, uh, not the, the