Ep. 24: The Rebbe's Attention to Shluchim with Rabbi Yosef Landa

00:00 Speaker 1 Do you think the fact that there are, I don't know, four thousand, five thousand Botei Chabad around the world, and millions and millions and millions of Jews who are touched by it, happens to be Lubavitch? Why? Because there's some great organization in the world of Lubavitch, some master plan, marketing plan that succeeded that? No. There probably are better marketers out there than us, and more organized people than us. It's not a question. It's this Nekuda the Rebbe's Mechanechs us. And we have to realize it, the Yocheir of that. And that is why Lubavitch today, not Lubavitch, it's the Rebbe. It says that's, that is why we, we are who we are. And the others are still scratching their heads and wondering, "How did they do it?"

00:54 Speaker 2 If you've been enjoying this podcast, please like and subscribe so that others can enjoy it as well. In addition, if you've benefited in any way from Among Chassidim Podcast and would like to give something back, you can do so today at derher.org/donate. I'm Yossi Kamen. Welcome to Among Chassidim by Derher, an ongoing farbrengen about life as a Chassid, our vibrant connection with the Rebbe, and inspired living shaped by the way he teaches us each and every day. This episode is dedicated leil nishmas HaRav Saadia ben HaRav Mordechai alav hashalom Dahan and le refuah shleima for Chana bas Nechama Dina by Shaul and Shaindy Dahan. Good afternoon, Rabbi Landa. How are you doing?

01:47 Speaker 1 Baruch Hashem.

01:48 Speaker 2 Okay.

01:48 Speaker 1 Baruch Hashem.

01:48 Speaker 2 Thank you for being here. You don't live here, so thank you for making the trip. And, uh, welcome to, uh, Among Chassidim.

02:00 Speaker 1 Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here. And, uh, there are other things over here that attract me as well, but this, this alone is worth a, is worth a trip.

02:11 Speaker 2 Okay. Very good. And, um, so there's a few things that I wanna discuss with you that I know about, but I always find it interesting to discuss the things that I, that I, I don't know about. So I've done this before when I dis- when I talk to others. Sometimes if we do a little bit, uh, chronological, um, type of thing, that, uh, that, that, that might be a good way to start. So in your case, I don't know, um, your background, where your, where your parents came from, where, where, where, where, where you grew up. I actually don't know. So if I don't know, that's, uh... I'll be more interested to know.

02:56 Speaker 1 Okay. I'll share that. I actually grew up in Boro Park. Uh, my father is a talmid in the yeshiva in Shanghai. He joined the yeshiva, he joined the yeshiva at the outbreak of the war. It's a whole long story that is, is not for now. Uh-

03:16 Speaker 2 So he wasn't in-

03:17 Speaker 1 He wasn't in Lutsk.

03:18 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

03:19 Speaker 1 From Lutsk, he went to Vilna, and he had this, uh, attraction to Chassidus. That's what it was. He came from a Galitzianer Chassidish family.

03:26 Speaker 2 I'm not following. He was not in Lutsk?

03:29 Speaker 1 He wasn't in Lutsk.

03:30 Speaker 2 Okay.

03:30 Speaker 1 Correct. He joined the yeshiva in Vilna. He, uh, he had this attraction. It's a whole long story that he was very drawn to Chassidus, and particularly to Chassidus Chabad. He came from Galitzianer Chassidim, Tzaddikim. His father was a Tzaddikim Chassid. But he was drawn to Chabad. And, um, in Vilna, uh, he was, he was, he was mekubal tzaddik. At the beginning of the war, at the beginning of the war, all of the yeshivas went to Vilna. So in one city, you had all of the Litvisher, there's a few Chassidish yeshivas. Most of the yeshivas then were, were Litvisher, some, some Musariki yeshivas. He was in actually-- He was actually in the Pinsk yeshiva, and he, he thirst for Chassidus. Uh, and he also organized. If you, you can find it in Toldos Chabad. In Toldos Chabad, the Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, uh, he started, uh, what the Friediker Rebbe gave a name, Igud Talmidei Hayeshivas Megaze Hachasidim. In all these yeshivas, there were a lot of-- There were Litvisher yeshivas, but there were a lot of Chassidisher bachurim who ended up over there for all kinds of reasons, if they wanted a yeshiva. And their Chassidish on Hoge and everything else went because that, that wasn't the avirah over there. And this bothered him very, very much, and he organized in all of these yeshivas that those who are Megaze Hachasidim should get together, and they should learn Chassidus, whatever. It was a whole, uh, it's a, it, it was a whole operation that he kind

05:09 Speaker 1 of ... And at end of that process, they, um, they were not very happy. The yeshiva that he was in Pinsk, and they were not ha- happy that-

05:18 Speaker 2 What type of yeshiva is that?

05:19 Speaker 1 Novardik.

05:20 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

05:20 Speaker 1 And they weren't happy that that was going on, coming out of their yeshiva, and he was unhappy with what was, you know, that the, that, uh, it, it, it didn't allow for learning of Chassidus and on Hoge Alfeydike Chassidus. It ki- So, uh, he asked the Rebbe about becoming a talmid in the yeshiva.

05:37 Speaker 2 The Rebbe?

05:37 Speaker 1 The Friediker Rebbe.

05:38 Speaker 2 Friediker Rebbe.

05:38 Speaker 1 He asked the Friediker Rebbe. You're talking about Taf Shin.

05:40 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

05:42 Speaker 1 And, uh-

05:44 Speaker 2 What do you mean he asked the Friediker Rebbe?

05:44 Speaker 1 He asked the Friediker Rebbe. He wrote. He wrote and said-

05:47 Speaker 2 Where was the Friediker Rebbe?

05:47 Speaker 1 We have the letter that the Rebbe writes to him.

05:49 Speaker 2 He was in America.

05:50 Speaker 1 The Rebbe who just arrived in America at that time.

05:52 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

05:52 Speaker 1 Yeah. And he said, and the Rebbe writes to him that, uh, uh, that I don't remember. Oysn vendik. We treasure that, uh, that letter because that's when he became, uh, became he, uh- Became a Ganzer Hasid, and the rest is history. We even have the, the Mashpia in the Yeshiva in Vilna, Rabbi Yehoshua Isaac Berku. We have him, a letter from him writing to the Rebbe, but the Tzemach Kedem Rebbe gave him, told him that, "Tzorich lehodis ulehaleh laHashem asher heyer," with an alef, "Heyer es b'nosoi v'heyer es livavi", and aroused his heart, uh, b'kosuv kaze, this schuchah that he has to learn Chassidus. And he should be mamaleh that schuchah in Yeshivas Tomchei Temimim.

06:40 Speaker 2 Yeah.

06:40 Speaker 1 And that became his key. So he became, uh, that, that's, that's my father. My father-

06:45 Speaker 2 Did he see the Tzemach Kedem Rebbe in Poland?

06:47 Speaker 1 Yeah, in America. So they came-

06:48 Speaker 2 He never saw the Tzemach Kedem Rebbe before?

06:50 Speaker 1 Never saw the Tzemach Kedem Rebbe before.

06:51 Speaker 2 Yeah. Okay.

06:52 Speaker 1 Never saw the Tzemach Kedem Rebbe before, but a lot of letters.

06:55 Speaker 2 Okay.

06:55 Speaker 1 So he asked, and the Rebbe answered. Um, uh, and they-- My-- But after the war, Teshrin Vov, they arrived over here. They arrived from Shanghai. And, um, my Zeyde, Matzah Em, was in America during the war. Uh, he was a Hungarian Hasid. With a shtreimel and a wesertzorkani, with everything. He lived in Williamsburg, but this is before that whole Olam came out. So he was here during the war. Most of his family was wiped out in the Holocaust. My, uh, my mother and a sister and a brother survived. They were in Auschwitz, and they were in Bergen-Belsen, not in the Gil- Gilgitin. Uh, and after the war, you have, you have to rebuild. He wanted to-- This was new to him, this whole Inyan of, uh, of a, uh, of, uh, Lubavitch Hasidim. This was, this wasn't known. It was a brand of Hasidus that wasn't kind of familiar to him.

07:53 Speaker 2 Right.

07:53 Speaker 1 But he wanted an Aidem mit bord and peyes. That's what he wanted. Uh, and so that's what happened, right if you wanna hear. My-- He lived on Wilson Street, um, obviously in that house in Williamsburg. So my mother, when she arrives, she's looking out the window on Wilson Street, and how far is that from 770? Not very far. So there are a group of Bochurim, Lubavitcher Bochur who walk past the street. So what do they wear? Had beards, Shtreimel, uh, a gray hat with, with, with, with short, you know, jackets or whatever. The way, the way they looked back then. She calls her f- She tells-- She used to tell us that she calls her father, "Tata, vey zeinedos dem meshugoyim." She's like she, she never saw somebody like that. And, uh, uh, eventually they met and got married, and Baruch Hashem, here we are.

08:45 Speaker 2 You say because they have-

08:46 Speaker 1 He-- They look funny. She never saw such a mahalach of Hasidim-

08:50 Speaker 2 Right

08:50 Speaker 1 ...that wear these funny, uh, American clothes. So he explained to them, so a great Tzaddik, the Lubavitcher Rebbe, Zeiler KeYid, whatever it is, and, you know, and these are his Talmidim. So that's the story.

09:03 Speaker 2 So in America, your father was-- learned to take in 770?

09:05 Speaker 1 Yes, in Bedford. First in Bedford, in 770, yeah.

09:10 Speaker 2 Your father?

09:10 Speaker 1 Yeah, until they, until they got married. Alter Rebbe Bochur. They were all Alter Rebbe Bochur. They were, they were probably twen- uh, I'm guessing twenty-seven, twenty-eight by the time they arrived here. Some were a little bit older, some were a little bit younger. Um, and, uh, the Tzemach Kedem Rebbe took his-- My father would tell, he took an interest in each one of them. They were all Yesivim. Uh, and he cared for them in a, in a, in a very personal way and took an interest in, in their Shidduchim and so forth. And, uh, and that's, and that's, that's the beginning of that. Interesting story. There's a, there's a Shliach of the Rebbe, and my father was a, a Ganzer Hasid from head to toe. Um, uh, that, uh, the Mesada Kidush that I'm wearing of my parents was the Satmar Rav.

10:07 Speaker 2 The side the-

10:08 Speaker 1 Yeah

10:09 Speaker 2 ...side of your mother.

10:10 Speaker 1 My, my father didn't make the Chasuna. Uh, my Zeyde did. He's the one who made the Chasuna so I guess he was in charge of that then. And so we have a picture. There's a picture that be- became world famous.

10:21 Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

10:21 Speaker 1 Because it's, uh, he's sitting there, and you can see Rabbi Mentler. It was the Olam sitting around, but the Kabbalat Sefarim, where you see him sitting at the head is, uh, is, uh, we're familiar with them.

10:33 Speaker 2 Interesting. So how did your parents end up in, uh, Boro Park?

10:39 Speaker 1 The Rebbe gave them. So my father was a Melamed in the, in the, uh, in, in the Yeshiva in Boro Park. And, and the Rebbe said to live near the work.

10:47 Speaker 2 Which Yeshiva was that?

10:48 Speaker 1 Beis Shmuel.

10:50 Speaker 2 You went to Cheder there?

10:51 Speaker 1 As a kid, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When we, when we, when we Sheva Brachos, when we sat shiva for my father, people came to visit him from, from Beis Shmuel who remember him from, from who knows how long ago.

11:05 Speaker 2 So how long were you learning there?

11:08 Speaker 1 I finished, I left Beis Shmuel, I think fifth grade. And I was the youngest of the boys. So-- And then I went to Bedford from fifth grade and on. And that's it.

11:20 Speaker 2 So, so-

11:20 Speaker 1 I went through the whole system.

11:22 Speaker 2 So you were in Bedford through high school?

11:24 Speaker 1 Uh, the fire and the end of Bedford, uh-

11:29 Speaker 2 What are we talking about? The fire?

11:30 Speaker 1 The fire. There was a fire in Bedford, Indiana.

11:32 Speaker 2 That's why-

11:32 Speaker 1 A big fire in the middle of learning.

11:33 Speaker 2 That's why I thought-

11:34 Speaker 1 That was the end of Bedford, yeah. But the building, the new building on Ocean Parkway was being built already.

11:39 Speaker 2 I thought it was because of, uh-

11:40 Speaker 1 Yeah

11:40 Speaker 2 ...there was too many rats in the-- Someone told me there was too many rats in the building.

11:43 Speaker 1 Yeah, that too. I'm, I'm sure after that too. Uh, I remember that fire very dis- very distinctly. The whole fourth floor, it was in flames. You're not talking about a small fire. It was a big fire, and it was the middle of learning. It was in the afternoon one day. And, and for a number of weeks, maybe even a couple of months or so, we learned in different places in Crown Heights, in some shuls and whatever. And then for the next month, uh, Ocean Parkway was already finished.

12:11 Speaker 2 So you were in Ocean Parkway?

12:12 Speaker 1 I was in Ocean Parkway, yeah. This Medrash. Uh, no, third year, Mesivta, I had Rabbi Ushpol, I had Rabbi Buket, uh, I had Rabbi Shway, uh, third year Mesivta. Yeah, over there. And then from there, you went to Newark, but then Newark ended, and Morristown began.

12:31 Speaker 2 So you remember-

12:31 Speaker 1 So I was-

12:32 Speaker 2 You were at the tail end of all the mesivtas.

12:34 Speaker 1 Yeah. Well-

12:35 Speaker 2 Yeah

12:35 Speaker 1 ... I, I was not there the first year of Morristown. I was there the second and third year of Morristown. Yeah.

12:39 Speaker 2 When Newark and Morristown were happening simultaneously?

12:41 Speaker 1 No, they weren't together. No. Well, Newark ended, and there was-- The class above us was the first one to initiate Morristown.

12:47 Speaker 2 Oh, so you never, you never went to-

12:48 Speaker 1 I was never in-

12:49 Speaker 2 ... Newark

12:49 Speaker 1 No.

12:51 Speaker 2 And...

12:53 Speaker 1 And then after, after Morristown, two years, so the Rebbe then sent a shlichas to several yeshivas, to, to France. So ten bochurim, ten to France.

13:09 Speaker 2 What, what years are you talking about? I'm, I'm-

13:11 Speaker 1 Ooh

13:12 Speaker 2 ... missing, I'm missing this part

13:14 Speaker 1 Uh, I'm guessing that that was lamed daled or lamed heh, that the Rebbe sent three kutzis of shluchim to Montreal. One to Montreal, one kutzu to Montreal, one kutzu to Kfar Chabad, one to Teresem as in Yerushalayim, where I ended up, and one to Vernois.

13:32 Speaker 2 To lamed daled or lamed heh?

13:33 Speaker 1 Yeah. I believe that's what it was. Could be lamed heh, lamed vav, possibly.

13:39 Speaker 2 So you went to Teresem as-

13:40 Speaker 1 I was in Teresem, yes. And that was an experience in itself.

13:43 Speaker 2 So before Teresem as, um, you, uh, you were a bachur. You went to-- First of all, when you were a kid, you went to the yeshivas?

13:53 Speaker 1 Hmm. Uh, my first yeshivas that I remember, that I had was, not that I remember, that I had was, was my bar mitzvah. Um, and I went with my parents. Yeah. Uh, and then, uh, those years we were zoche that every Yom Immat you were able to go in after that. So last time I counted, it's a real Uh, it was seven, seven yechidas that I had. Yeah. It was a zechut to have. The last one was as choson kalah.

14:31 Speaker 2 So the Rebbe stopped the yechidas, I think, lamed heh for the Yom Immat.

14:36 Speaker 1 I'll, I'll trust your memory on that.

14:38 Speaker 2 I just, I happened to just learn the sicha-

14:40 Speaker 1 Yeah

14:41 Speaker 2 ... lamed heh, where the Rebbe announces that, uh, there will no longer be a yechidas for Yom Immat.

14:47 Speaker 1 The, there, there were a couple of kufas of kind of dialing down. It wasn't in one fell swoop. It started off, I remember that you need to have a settle from the Hanhalah of Shmiras Hasaderim and so forth, which, yeah, I, I don't remember anyone who wasn't able to get it. Maybe my circle of friends were all the good kids. Uh, but, um, th-that was one dialing down. And, and then was when, yeah, when it ended. And it, it was, uh, you know, listen, uh, it, it, it changed. It changed. Uh, but, uh, that's, that's what needed to be done. So that's what happened. Even the yechidas in Farcasanas changed.

15:42 Speaker 2 I think the Rebbe said that the thought was, I'm like paraphrasing, the thought was that it's gonna be a big te elles, yechidas-

15:52 Speaker 1 Yechidas

15:52 Speaker 2 ... but not necessarily was it.

15:55 Speaker 1 In that sicha?

15:55 Speaker 2 I'm pretty sure that's what the Rebbe says, yeah. I guess we didn't, uh, do what we were supposed to. What, um, is there anything from your yechidas when you were a bachur that's, uh, noteworthy?

16:13 Speaker 1 A couple of things in, uh, not yechidas. I'll, I'll share a few things that I think are noteworthy and also applicable-

16:21 Speaker 2 Okay

16:22 Speaker 1 ... useful. That's, uh-

16:24 Speaker 2 Whatever you don't wanna share is more interesting.

16:28 Speaker 1 Or what I do wanna share is not interesting. So what you should say? But the-

16:31 Speaker 2 No, I said more.

16:32 Speaker 1 All right. More interesting. Okay, go ahead. Uh, I don't have anything to know about.

16:40 Speaker 2 So you go ahead. No, what, what is, uh-

16:41 Speaker 1 No, I was, I was gonna share a little bit in terms of, uh, the shlichas and, uh, lead into the, this, uh-

16:49 Speaker 2 Okay, I'm just, I'm just trying to go in, in order-

16:51 Speaker 1 In order, you wanna go in a sec. So-

16:52 Speaker 2 T-t-til we get to the shlichas

16:54 Speaker 1 So after the chasanah, you know, after the chasanah, we went to Kirul, and, uh-

16:59 Speaker 2 One second. When you were a bachur-

17:01 Speaker 1 You're not ready to jump over that.

17:03 Speaker 2 Yeah, I have to, I have to-

17:04 Speaker 1 You wanna make-

17:04 Speaker 2 My brain has to-

17:05 Speaker 1 You wanna take a local.

17:05 Speaker 2 Yeah. When you were a bachur, and when you're learning in Bedford and Dean, and then in Newark-

17:13 Speaker 1 Hmm

17:13 Speaker 2 ... and then in Morristown.

17:14 Speaker 1 Morristown.

17:15 Speaker 2 You were come-- You were by the Rebbe's farbrengen, like all the Shabbosim?

17:18 Speaker 1 Whenever there was a farbrengen, I don't think it ever happened that we, we were there and there was a farbrengen. I don't remember that. But the klal godel was that whenever there was a Shabbos, you didn't know. Later on, it became that it was a «davar regel» Shabbos farbrengens, but it used to be Shabbos Mevorchim and some other time. You know, whenever there was, uh, when the Rebbe saw fit to make a farbrengen, and you didn't always know. You didn't always know. Sometimes you found out after Shacharis, uh, after, after Musaf.

17:50 Speaker 2 On Shabbos.

17:51 Speaker 1 He was giving a clap or whatever it is, and he was announcing Mincha. So if the Rebbe waited for Mincha, that meant that there wasn't a farbrengen. If the Rebbe went out before Mincha was announced, it means the Mincha will be after. You know, that you know. That was the, the signal, whether there was... So sometimes you only heard about it on Shabbos. But I, I don't remember in the two years that I was in Morristown If, if it happened, that happened extremely rarely.

18:17 Speaker 2 And you-

18:17 Speaker 1 That we were there-

18:19 Speaker 2 Right

18:19 Speaker 1 ... because there was anticipation that there won't be a farbrengen. And, and I have to tell you that those Shabbos that we were there on a Shabbos is a, a basunder geschmack in yeshiva on Shabbos. A basunder geschmack, um, Chassidis before Kabbalat Shabbos, uh, S- Shabbos in the morning, uh, a little bit of a, a little bit of an opportunity of davening, you know, whatever. But the, tho-those, those were very special times really actually. Verstehst du? If the Rebbe farbrengen, we wanted to be there.

18:54 Speaker 2 When you were in Bedford, you also were by the farbrengens on Shabbos or you were home?

19:00 Speaker 1 In Bedford, so how old was I? Wait a minute. So in Bedford, if there was a farbrengen, I would walk. I was-- I didn't have anywhere to stay. I, I wasn't-- There was no dorm. I was home. I walked this, the mahalik from Borough Park to Crown Heights.

19:17 Speaker 2 By yourself?

19:18 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I walked, I, I can't even tell you how many dozens of times, probably maybe a couple of hundred times I used to that. We did that. That was, that was the usual thing. In order for me to arrive on time, I used to chap at the same minyan in Borough Park somewhere that davened early, and, and I went. They finished, and I went, and I came there. Um, yeah. Yeah. I remember once a-arriving, come to seven seventy after... It's a long walk. It was from where I were in Bor-- where I lived in Borough Park, it was an hour and a half. I remember, um, Rabbi Shlomo Lobkowski sees me coming in. There was no farbrengen. It's a still, seven seventy is quiet. I come in, "I come from Borough Park." "Oh," zogt the dos is a schar haliche." He tells me "Hauch ve'einehause." Right. Uh, that was it.

20:13 Speaker 2 Okay. Um, and then you were sent on shlichus fr-from Maristown to, to Toldos Aharon.

20:23 Speaker 1 Finished Maristown. We were going to go into Chovevei Torah, what was then called Chovevei Torah. We actually started because the shlichus in, in Toldos Aharon started after Tishrei. So Elul, we, we, we were sitting in Chovevei Torah, as Rabbi Mendlowitz called the, the Chovevei Torah shul. Uh, so we learned over the Chovevei Torah and, uh, found a place where we can lay down, uh, and have a bed, uh, v'dochek. And then, uh, then there's a sicha was, that sicha where the Rebbe spoke about, uh, "Arzei Livanon Asher Nata," that there has to be in the Tiem u'makom l'makom, and there's this whole din of sending shluchim in these places. Uh, and that sicha, I think, was Shabbos before Rosh Chodesh, if I'm not mistaken.

21:16 Speaker 2 So you didn't know-

21:17 Speaker 1 That's the Tishrei. We didn't know that this was gonna happen. That wasn't the Seder. And after-- And it was figured out who goes where, and after Yom Tov-

21:27 Speaker 2 But the Rebbe was sending shluchim to Toldos Aharon before.

21:30 Speaker 1 Nnn, nope.

21:31 Speaker 2 I know Teshrei chav zayin there was-

21:32 Speaker 1 Oh, okay. That's-

21:33 Speaker 2 I think it happened

21:34 Speaker 1 ... that's long before me. You're talking about... I'm talking-- What am I saying?

21:38 Speaker 2 Uh, lamed he.

21:38 Speaker 1 Lamed he. Lamed he, lamed vav. No, that's a long time.

21:41 Speaker 2 I think it happened, but that wasn't the regular Seder.

21:43 Speaker 1 Yeah. No, no, no. It, it was not the Seder for twenty years before us, no, or something like that. Yeah. There were hookups then. So the Mesirut Nefesh of the locals to hear a hookup, their Mesirut Nefesh was to get up at two in the morning.

22:02 Speaker 2 Right.

22:03 Speaker 1 Uh, for us, there wasn't a Mesirut Nefesh. That, that wasn't even a thought. So, uh, th-th-those kinds of things, you know.

22:13 Speaker 2 But they did it.

22:14 Speaker 1 Some did and some some didn't, some didn't. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

22:20 Speaker 2 So you were there for two years, then you came-

22:22 Speaker 1 We were there for two years and came back, and we were in seven seventy.

22:27 Speaker 2 Until you got married.

22:28 Speaker 1 In seven seventy, yeah. So in seven seventy, um... Nope, didn't go straight to seven seventy. The first year we were in Ocean Parkway, the shlichim in Ocean Parkway. Are you familiar with that? I don't know. So we were the called the alter bachurim in Ocean Parkway in Bes Medrash. That was also good year. We heard shiurim from Reb Yoel, uh, mesuchakach in them, uh, very geschmack. And-

22:56 Speaker 2 So that was your, uh-- So that's when you interacted with Reb Yoel, not, not in high school.

23:00 Speaker 1 No, I had Reb Yoel in Ocean Parkway.

23:02 Speaker 2 In M- in Mesivta?

23:04 Speaker 1 In Mesivta, yeah. Give a-- A Reb Yoel, they gave him for fifteen-year-old kids, you know. That was his job.

23:11 Speaker 2 You, you didn't-

23:11 Speaker 1 That was actually his job. His job was, is that he taught fifteen-year-old kids, uh, Adam Ki Yaakov in Likutey Torah. You know, there was Mamorim Elul Kotim, that's special. No, I also learned for the Rachmeses Sacher. Both. One year was, uh, one-- It was two years, no. Two years I had Reb Yoel, fifteen, sixteen, something like that, in the Bes Medrash. When you were-- Rabbi Ushpol had the first year Bes Medrash. Rabbi Buker had the second year Bes Medrash. In those two years, you had Reb Yoel. And there's no question about it, that he opened up, you know. You're tacky young, but, uh, I didn't quite grasp the Inyanim. Not that older people do grasp the Inyanim. You can be older and not grasp maybe is the af zayin, but, uh, that was, uh, that was wonderful. That, uh, uh, well, it was that. It was actually fantastic.

23:59 Speaker 2 Maybe it's the opposite. Maybe some-- It's not that when you're older, you need a proper Mashpia, when you're younger, it doesn't make a difference. Maybe the contrary, when you're younger, you need a Reb Yoel. I don't know. Maybe, maybe that.

24:09 Speaker 1 But to be ma-- to be masbe musok, me'elech hanamim. You know, for the kids, this was a great thing. It wasn't-- I'm not saying that it... You would think, though, that, uh, you know, for those who are shaijes to understand more, you need someone who could be masbe something more.

24:22 Speaker 2 Yeah.

24:23 Speaker 1 Right. Um, but then we had him a whole year. We were at that time probably twenty-one, twenty-two, I'm guessing, when we were in Ocean Parkway. So I don't get it. Twenty-one to start, a little bit more shaijes. And, uh, the thing is like this, you know. I, I ended up we, uh, our group ended up in Toldos Aharon for whatever the reasons were. It's not everybody had their own reasons, uh, but there wasn't anyone over there, um, who in terms of Chassidis, there wasn't anyone. So one of the differences between Yeshivish Chassidim, in terms of Ahavah and Hasagah, uh, you know, gut verchtein something in Hasbara, that's for the most part that wasn't-

25:12 Speaker 2 You needed to wait-

25:13 Speaker 1 That wasn't their cup of tea. That wasn't their Inyan. Uh, our friends who went to Kar Chabad, Megad, they-- We were envious of them. We were envious of them. How that ended up, I don't know.

25:26 Speaker 2 Shlome Chaim?

25:27 Speaker 1 No. It was after Shlome Chaim. Rabbi Mendel was there.

25:29 Speaker 2 Mendel.

25:29 Speaker 1 Yeah. What they had, they had mashpiyim over there, and they had shiurim, resembling. Uh, we had in Diglow, we had, uh, Zelig Feldman. Uh, something extraordinary. Can't duplicate that either.

25:45 Speaker 2 Right.

25:45 Speaker 1 So.

25:47 Speaker 2 Okay. And, uh, so you're back in, in, um, Ocean Parkway, and then you, and then you went to Seven Seventy.

25:53 Speaker 1 Yep. Yeah.

25:55 Speaker 2 So that's where you learned, uh, your day and s-semikhah in-

25:59 Speaker 1 Yep

25:59 Speaker 2 ... Seven Seventy.

26:00 Speaker 1 Yep. Yeah.

26:02 Speaker 2 So what year did you get married?

26:07 Speaker 1 Lamed Zayin. Uh, summer of Lamed Zayin, I got married.

26:14 Speaker 2 And you were in Yechivas before the chasuna?

26:16 Speaker 1 Yeah.

26:17 Speaker 2 Then you went to Kollel.

26:19 Speaker 1 And then I went to Kollel, yeah.

26:21 Speaker 2 For how long?

26:24 Speaker 1 I was there for a year. For almost finished a year. Yeah.

26:29 Speaker 2 So before we move on to the shlichus, what wa-- Like, you knew you wanted to be a shliach? Like, how did the-

26:37 Speaker 1 Yeah

26:37 Speaker 2 ... how did this work?

26:37 Speaker 1 Yeah. It came out, yeah. And, and, and Baruch Hashem, very proud to say that all of our chevre, not all, but the rubim kikulam. And that was a chiddush. I think that was the beginning where this became the norm. This the Oysnam.

26:52 Speaker 2 I see. That was the beginning of that, uh, kufra.

26:53 Speaker 1 I think so. I think that more or less that kufer, that vintage, uh, it, it, it became... Listen, for some people, it's not shaichus, and some would go whatever, and that's chas v'shalom not making it. So I'm just saying in terms of numbers, it became b'chol I think, uh, what year was the Ayin Alef Mosdos? So that was Lamed Beis.

27:15 Speaker 2 Beis.

27:16 Speaker 1 Lamed Beis. So that started, you know, uh, a riboy, a riboy. But by the time, uh, my wife and I went out in shlichus, um, it-- the numbers had already gotten up. Not everybody was in America, but, uh, the, the-- Could be that that was the Rebbe's kavana with Ayin Alef. I don't know what it was. But they, there were more mosdos and there were more shluchim. And, uh, and, uh, those years, listen I was, I was sitting, and I remember that vividly, and I can tell you who was sitting next to me. That first Kinus Hashluchim. There wasn't a mitzias of a kinus-

28:05 Speaker 2 Like in Madonna, do you think?

28:06 Speaker 1 That's the year it was.

28:07 Speaker 2 The, the American kinus.

28:09 Speaker 1 The American kinus. Yeah. It was only America and Canada, I think it was.

28:12 Speaker 2 Yeah.

28:12 Speaker 1 Yeah. And then the Rebbe said, "Ven lo baadi hapoelim machana haKinusei Olam." That's what he said.

28:19 Speaker 2 Two thousand and twelve, first international kinus.

28:21 Speaker 1 But I remember sitting upstairs, there was maybe thirty chevre in the derich. And, uh, most of them were the, the older group. Um, a few of us were the youngsters, and we were-- Before there was a kinus, we were starving for this because y-yeah, there's no fax. There's no communication. Uh, if you wanna talk long distance, you have to pay twenty-five cents a minute. You know what I mean? That too, I want you to know, phone calls were a shil koparnusa. That's what it was. And just to be able to have a k- And how much could you do by phone? You were really indep-- not independent. S-you, you, you were s-

29:10 Speaker 2 Isolated

29:10 Speaker 1 ... meant, meant to be self-sufficient.

29:11 Speaker 2 Self-sufficient.

29:12 Speaker 1 A little isolation, nisht eis nisht.

29:13 Speaker 2 Yeah.

29:14 Speaker 1 A Hasid-- A Chassidus nisht owned, right? But yeah, but you were meant to be self-sufficient. It's very, very hard. The stuff that was had for granted now, it's all kinda segualik, you know. You have shiurim that are given to you, you have topics, you have ideas, you can share. We were starved before there ever was a Kinus Hashluchim. It was-- I, um, my chevre, when we heard that this was going on, the first Kinus Hashluchim, it was like an excitement. We sat in the front row, didn't wanna miss a word. Yeah.

29:50 Speaker 2 So how did the shlichus come about?

29:58 Speaker 1 The, the backstory in terms of specifically of St. Louis.

30:02 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

30:05 Speaker 1 The backstory I found out afterwards, there was a group of Balabatns. You need to know this about St. Louis. St. Louis is a, always was a Chassidishe shtot.

30:15 Speaker 2 The Friediker Rebbe went there.

30:17 Speaker 1 Yeah, but there were other st-places also the Friediker Rebbe went. There were ten cities that the Friediker Rebbe went to town.

30:22 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

30:22 Speaker 1 Be'ez Hashem Yizbaruch, I'm working on a book about that.

30:25 Speaker 2 There's an article in this month's Teheir about the Friediker Rebbe's visit.

30:28 Speaker 1 I saw, I saw. And some of the stuff that's in that is from my pre-article, article that's published in chabad.org.

30:36 Speaker 2 Okay.

30:38 Speaker 1 And you c-

30:40 Speaker 2 And it's footnoted on-

30:41 Speaker 1 Withou-without attribution.

30:42 Speaker 2 Without?

30:43 Speaker 1 I think so. Since we get into that.

30:45 Speaker 2 You have to, you have to make a correction.

30:46 Speaker 1 It's, it's-- That was written already, it's done but twenty years ago.

30:49 Speaker 2 Okay.

30:49 Speaker 1 And from then I have, uh, I have a lot, a lot more material, Be'ez Hashem. That's okay. That's good. Um, so a lot-- There was a good, a good number of Yidden there, sixty thousand Jews, Ehreav, Roshi It's an organized kehilla. Uh, there's a Vaad Hahoir over here that's-- The Vaad Hahoir in S- over here I'm saying in St. Louis. There's a Vaad Hahoir of organized, uh, shuls, and talking about Orthodox shuls, verstehst sich. Um, that's, I think I didn't twenty-five years old. So you're talking about a kehilla that was functioning. When we arrived, there were six or seven Orthodox shuls. And they were mostly Anashim Pshutim. Uh, shomer Shabbos, like did what they were supposed to do, but they were mostly Anashim. They were Talmidai Yeshiva, very few, a small handful. A small, small handful of people who went to yeshiva, went to Torah Vodaath some people. Some people went to Chaim Berlin. You know, their parents wanted them to learn something. But those mamish Yechidei Sgula, you probably count them on the fingers of your hands, and maybe have a couple of fingers to spare.

32:07 Speaker 2 Mm.

32:08 Speaker 1 Um, so St. Louis was a, um, was, was an ir ve'ebistroh. I don't know what-- Well, I have some ideas. There was a letter that was written to the Rebbe, of which I have a copy. About ten signatures asking the Rebbe to send a shliach. This was-

32:31 Speaker 2 So a city like that, isn't it strange that there wasn't a shliach until then?

32:35 Speaker 1 There was no, no, there was no one who was called a shliach. There were some Chabadniks who lived in some-

32:39 Speaker 2 But I'm saying isn't it-

32:40 Speaker 1 Wonderful Chabadniks. So first of all, uh, uh, Rabbi Shalom Rivkin, who later on became the Av Beth Din, is Berel Rivkin's son. Um, and he became the... He-- So he was in St. Louis as a bocher. I have the letter, the Frierdiker Rebbe. There's a shul in St. Louis called Nusach HaAri.

33:03 Speaker 2 So there was Lubavitch activity?

33:04 Speaker 1 There-- Yes, yes. Fakert. And one of the reasons I wanted to write this book is I wanted to document that. Uh, this is-- We're, we're not visitors over here, you know. Uh, uh, way back when, there was, there was, there were, were Hasid-- Chas-- Hasidim from Geza, what the Frierdiker Rebbe used to call. They knew that if they need a Rav, the place to get a Rav is the Lubavitcher Rebbe, and they wrote to the Frierdiker Rebbe, and he taka sent them Rabbi Shalom Rivkin, who was a bocher then. I think he was twenty-two years old.

33:35 Speaker 2 Mm.

33:39 Speaker 1 There's, um, um, a little winding over here. As I just saw this, and I noticed this. I remember which sefer I have in my modem. It's in the back. A Simchas Torah. Uh, far bring a Simchas Torah by the Frierdiker Rebbe. I think it's taf shin tes. Makes sense that it was taf shin tes. And it's-- everything is in, in Rosh Yeshivas, so you have to guess who it is. But al pi pashtus, the guess is a correct one, is Rabbi Rivkin Senior went over to the Frierdiker Rebbe, apparently, in the Simchas Torah. His son, Shalom, was already in St. Louis, far away, weit weit avek , you know. He used to travel by train, maybe by beracha, verstehst. And he's, he's maskir his son, Shalom, to the Frierdiker Rebbe. It's a very interesting answer over there, and that's why I'm... It's, it's printed with Rosh Yeshivas, but the Rebbe says, "Ich halt ir far a klugen," Frierdiker Rebbe says. "And I always-- Or I always held you for a klugen. You need to remind me about Shalom."

34:55 Speaker 2 Mm.

34:55 Speaker 1 "That he's always in my machshava all the time." And I, I, I think this, some of the stories that I can share th- with you about this is I think this is true of all Hasidim, and bemichah all shluchim. I think I'll say this, this is the messias. It's-- That's when it was said, but the, the emes defoin is, is true always.

35:22 Speaker 2 You referenced the Hayom Yom that, uh, Hasidim hain nisht aleint.

35:28 Speaker 1 Nisht aleint, yeah.

35:29 Speaker 2 Amol, the, the, the, the, the Lam.

35:32 Speaker 1 Yeah. And, and, and, and, and many, many hundreds of shluchim can tell you stories that point in that direction. It's nisht alein.

35:41 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

35:43 Speaker 1 Sometimes bezoycher we see it begoli, the care. Poshut, uh, the care and the concern. Uh, sometimes we see it begoli, and then, but it's, it's always there.

35:57 Speaker 2 It's always there. So-

35:59 Speaker 1 So, you know, we, we talked about the yechidim, and we see it, we feel it as a minus. Sot gefelt. But afterwards, vi ken zayn, the Rebbe always used to say, you know, that, uh, that it, it can't be a chesron.

36:17 Speaker 2 Right.

36:17 Speaker 1 And everything that happens has to be only l'maaleh, so gei farshtey. Vi farshteyn dis dos. Go ahead.

36:24 Speaker 2 So the Balabastim wrote a letter to the Rebbe-

36:26 Speaker 1 So they wrote a letter, and-

36:28 Speaker 2 What did it say? That they, the-

36:30 Speaker 1 Uh, we want to have a letter in English. We, we, we want to have the, the teachings of, of Chabad. We want, uh, we want to raise our children to have, to have, uh, the benefit. Something like that. And the people who signed it-

36:45 Speaker 2 There wasn't a shul.

36:46 Speaker 1 It wasn't a shul. No, no, no. It was a piece, a white sheet of paper. I have it with all the signatures. I knew the people who signed it. I think every single one of them is Shomer Chaim l'chol chai already. Um, and that's-- I'm telling you that's the backstory, which I didn't know beshas myself because I didn't see this letter. Someone gave it to me. One of the signators. Uh, the letter, I had a copy of it, so he gave it to me And Rabbi Sholom Weinberger, his both on Kansas and Missouri. So I think the, the one who came knocking on my door was Rabbi Sholom Weinberger that he was looking. This was about after that period of time when this letter was sent.

37:35 Speaker 3 Mm-hmm. So he-- You, you know-

37:38 Speaker 1 So it seemed-

37:38 Speaker 3 -the Rabbi Chadka?

37:40 Speaker 1 I imagine. I mean, I-- Maybe I was told. I, I don't remember. It's a long time ago. I don't remember. But, uh, that's, uh, pretty, pretty a, a good bet that that was the story, that that was the story. So he went looking, and, uh, of course, went and looked and took interest. And what do we know then? Uh, s-s-- I-I was kidding around, you know. We're, we're, we're-- I'm coming. I'm traveling to St. Louis. I'm gonna see you, to see if it's Roy, if it's whatever. Oh, it's basement.

38:15 Speaker 3 You went.

38:15 Speaker 1 Oh, it's basement. Yeah, we went. Nowadays, you know, you can... Yeah, you scout out the place, and you get all the stats and, and the, uh, the average, uh, household income and the resources so forth and so on, and what the taxes are, uh, et cetera, et cetera. None of that existed. No one thought about that. Um, we went very much between us, very much between us.

38:41 Speaker 3 So you, you wrote to the Rebbe about this option? Like, how did, how did that work?

38:45 Speaker 1 No, I only wrote about this. Only wrote about that. Um, and, um, yeah. You know, the Rebbe, the Rebbe gives us We arrived in St. Louis. I'll tell you something, you know, little things that we hear here and there.

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41:03 Speaker 3 support as well through visiting our website, derher.org, or through contacting us to setting up a meeting. Thank you very much. Enjoy the rest of the podcast.

41:13 Speaker 1 We arrived in St. Louis, the first thing that we discovered, uh, you come in Yitzhak Kissless. So I'm coming straight from Yeshiva, from Kollel. Yitzhak Kissless was not gonna go by without whatever. And, and St. Louis, like I said, had an of Anoshim Putim, but people who, you know, you can call them to a farbrengen, Yitzhak Kissless. Uh, some of them were those Chassidim from Geza, you know. So I mean, a very shtickel of farbrengen. And so it went good. It was in my house, in our house. We were just-- We, we, we left there after Tisha, uh, you know, Yitzhak Kissless. Two months later, so, uh, whatever. It was a s-- It was a-- what we would call now a small in the, uh, you know, a hemishe farbrengen, nothing. So next year, we resolved that we're gonna make a nice big farbrengen. There was a shul, the same shul, this Nusach HaAri Shul. And, um-

42:09 Speaker 3 Same shul as what?

42:10 Speaker 1 What?

42:11 Speaker 3 The one that, uh-

42:12 Speaker 1 Yeah, that shul, that shul. He wasn't the Rav over there anymore. He had left. He was the Rav over there for a number of years. Uh, so all kinds of interesting stories. Um, the, the, the Rebbe predicted when he left. The Rebbe told him that he's gonna come, whatever. That'll hold. He'll come back.

42:36 Speaker 3 Uh.

42:36 Speaker 1 What happened was that after Rav Eichenstein was niftar, uh, we were in St. Louis. We were there. Rav Eichenstein was the six-- was the, was the, for many years, the Rav Roshi. It's a unique position that St. Louis has. Rav Roshi, uh, that was his title, and that's what he did. He didn't-- He wasn't really a Rav of a specific shul. He was the Rav of the Vaad Ha'ir, which represented all the shuls and all of the in town. Um, so after he was niftar, Rabbi Sholom Rifkin had Chassidim of his Who, who really enjoyed him when he was there, and they shachsit. So a few, a handful of people, and they happened to be in a position of leadership. They can't have a salon, and they went to some yeshivas. This one went to Tervadas. This, like I said, Chaim Berlin, the Choice, wherever they went. And, uh, they said, "We need a new Rav Roshi. It's gonna be Rav Shalom Rifkin," and that's how he came to happen.

43:37 Speaker 2 So you-

43:37 Speaker 1 I know, I, I, I, I was a, I was a youngster without being perched people's head. I was a youngster. I was new in town. Th-this whole thing happened, uh, six months in St. Louis more or less when Rav Achinson was nifti, and right away the conversation was, "Let's find a new Rav Roshi." And I wanted it to be at least someone who is a, you know, a Chabadnik, in Gansen, a Bisla, Ach, you know, has to be some... So, again, without mentioning there was, there was another Rav. It was a Rav, Rav Babacharov, who was mesugal, I thought, for this. And I called him up, and I said, "Well, this is happening. They're looking. I think you should submit your candidacy." Uh, I, I didn't think of Rabbi Shalom Rifkin. I didn't have a cash with him. I didn't think about it. I thought of this one. I would have gone to as many as I can. Let them, let them all submit their candidacy as long as it's a Chassidishe Rav. So that Rav wrote to the Rebbe. I guess he was interested in it. And he got an answer as long as it doesn't hurt the candidacy of Rabbi Shalom Rifkin. So heistas that, uh, th-that's the way it was meant to be.

45:03 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

45:06 Speaker 1 So, um, that's, that's-

45:10 Speaker 2 You're holding it to Kislev when you made a fabring-

45:12 Speaker 1 Oh, I made a big fabring. Thank you very much. Yeah, you'll have to do this throughout our, our conversations, remind me where I was up to.

45:17 Speaker 2 Yeah, okay.

45:18 Speaker 1 So we had, this is the lower level of the Nusach Hari Shul. It was a Motzei Shabbos, Gemacht Hamlava Malka. Yeah, it's a different, uh, now the com-- From communities large, it's grown, it developed. Uh, it wasn't that way. Two hundred people showed up. Um, I brought Rabbi, we brought Rabbi Moshe Feller. Um, him, he regaled, he told, he spoke, he, he, he had a meeting from the palm of his hands. Uh, it, it was a historic thing. So what, what I gotta tell you is I sent invitations. I didn't make invitations for this. I was very haplap. I went to a printer, and the printer types it. That's what you had to do then. And there's an invitation, and it had to have a description, explanation of what Yutras Kislev is. We sent it out, stamps, I don't know, whatever. We had a couple hundred people came, sent. They had never seen something like this. And, uh, sh- uh, so we sent invitations to the Rebbe with a return envelope, you know, with envelopes. Uh, I think it was with a return envelope, yeah. What came, and as far as I know, that wasn't the Rebbe's shich. Thirty-s-thirty-six dollars, that's what it was. It was thirty-six dollars for a couple to come. It was a twenty and a ten and a five and a one cash. And it was in my own client's handwriting, "Geshtachtlos kvech Kishes Atmar," uh, "al ha-al hasmanose liv Yutras Kislev."

46:57 Speaker 2 Oh.

46:57 Speaker 1 So that's what I have. Yeah. Was, you know, you get something like that. There's, uh, there were a number of stories maybe we'll get to.

47:05 Speaker 2 Right when you, saying right when you come, come on Schlichas.

47:08 Speaker 1 Yes, all the way at the beginning, yeah.

47:09 Speaker 2 Talking about the, for the Rebbe's being, uh-

47:12 Speaker 1 I said-

47:12 Speaker 2 -part of, of your Schlichas

47:14 Speaker 1 ... that too, I hope. Uh, uh, I, I'd like to think that those were moments that I was zecher to cause the Rebbe nachas ruch. And, um...

47:25 Speaker 2 What were other such moments-

47:26 Speaker 1 That's-

47:27 Speaker 2 I missed-

47:27 Speaker 1 That's what we're about. It's-

47:29 Speaker 2 Yeah.

47:31 Speaker 1 We think we're leaders, and we have visions. So gosh, that's like, uh, yeah. I'll share with you this, if we can get to talk about the Menade.

47:41 Speaker 2 We have time. Don't worry.

47:43 Speaker 1 So I'll tell some stories of Menade. Okay, so we'll get to it. No, you're taking the local.

47:48 Speaker 2 What were the, what were other such instances that you saw the Rebbe's yasas to your Schlichas?

47:55 Speaker 1 A lot of it has to do with the Menade. So but if you can put it off for later, um, I'll, I'll share some of those things.

48:03 Speaker 2 You can start, you can do the Menade, and then we'll-

48:04 Speaker 1 Okay, we can do that

48:05 Speaker 2 ... and then we'll, we can always go back.

48:07 Speaker 1 So-

48:07 Speaker 2 I think now we're no longer chronological order. We'll, uh

48:11 Speaker 1 It is pretty much chronological-

48:12 Speaker 2 Okay

48:12 Speaker 1 ... 'cause the Menade story happened very early on.

48:14 Speaker 2 Oh, yeah?

48:15 Speaker 1 It was, it was-

48:16 Speaker 2 You went on-

48:17 Speaker 1 I wanted to do something-

48:18 Speaker 2 You went on Lamethes, Lamethes?

48:20 Speaker 1 I went, no. By the time we landed, no, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. We arrived as Tishrei mem alef.

48:31 Speaker 2 Oh.

48:34 Speaker 1 So that's-

48:35 Speaker 2 So you were in Koloz for a few years

48:36 Speaker 1 ... the first Chanukah. I believe the first Chanukah. It's such a good number long. My wife was teaching in Beis Rivkah. They didn't want her to leave. Uh, the, the, so it took a little bit of time from the time that we got the answer from the Rebbe until actually going. It, it took some time. Not a lot of time. It took some time. Um, and, um, so I, I wanted to do something. I had a shtickel of vision, you know. I would-- If, if anybody today can understand this, you came to a town, ninety-nine percent of the Jews in the town never heard the word Chabad. Vas is this? Not vas is this. What's that? You had to explain. So maybe there were some old, old-timers who knew, uh, Chabad. Uh, maybe some of the old-timers in this Nusach Hari Shul, they were there. But I said, "That's what you're talking about." You had to literally explain. You met somebody, "What are you here for?" You know, Rabbi Feller, if I could spoil. Uh, uh, in one way or another, the questioner says, "What are you doing over here? You have a school? You're teaching in the school? You have a shul?" Didn't have either one of those things. "So what are you doing?" It, it, they, they couldn't grasp the concept of what we were doing. Anyways, I wanted to make a shtickel impact in town other than the few people that I was learning Chassidus with or teaching. You didn't have prepared

50:10 Speaker 1 lessons either. You had to do it all.

50:11 Speaker 2 Okay.

50:11 Speaker 1 You know what was the one book that was available in English about Chasidus? Think Jewish.

50:18 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

50:18 Speaker 1 By Zalman Posner.

50:21 Speaker 2 That was the book.

50:21 Speaker 1 Yeah, that was the book.

50:23 Speaker 2 So I, I'm just trying to understand. It was very clear that you're not, you're not there to make a shul?

50:30 Speaker 1 It wasn't mufrach. No, it wasn't mufrach. But you're coming to a community that has established, you have to be very careful not to be seen as hurting anybody, because it's their shul. There's even a Nusach HaRishon. You know what I'm talking about?

50:47 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

50:48 Speaker 1 So granted, they didn't do the work that we ended up doing and, and, uh, and, and end up with six shulchan, Baruch Hashem, that we have today. Uh, yeah, granted that, that wasn't, that wasn't the case, but, uh, you can't do anything to hurt them, Chas v'Shalom. So we had to be very, very careful and go about it in a judicious way. There was a day school. There was a, a kosher day school. Um, and, um, and shuls. Right. So anyway, I wanted to do something that's farhap in the community, uh, as something... Oh, the, the, the-- So at that time, there was the tumulte. My friend, Yisroel Brodt, had this, uh, thing. I think he wrote about it in TNJ. Last year you wrote about it?

51:36 Speaker 2 No, it was a-

51:37 Speaker 1 Yeah, so those letters-

51:38 Speaker 2 ... quite a few years ago

51:38 Speaker 1 ... those letters, how would we see those letters? I don't know. This time I d- heard about it somehow, and I asked him to mail the letters to me. I mean-

51:46 Speaker 2 The letters to the federation-

51:47 Speaker 1 To the federation, yeah

51:47 Speaker 2 ... that, that he ever wrote.

51:48 Speaker 1 I'm just saying, there wasn't even a place where you would automatically find this. You can't go to a, there wasn't a website. It wasn't ... This is, it, you have to understand how out of the loop everybody felt. You, you mamish had to call somebody and hear about it. If you were zecher, you called the right person, and he didn't have it then, and how was he gonna get it? How was he gonna get it? There was no fax machine either. He has to mail it to you. I mean, just, um, uh, appreciate that.

52:15 Speaker 2 So Yisroel Brodt mailed you the letters.

52:17 Speaker 1 Some of them. I, I don't remember now, but yeah. So as I saw, I saw that this is a thing that the Rebbe wanted.

52:23 Speaker 2 So you're saying even the fact to make a public menora then wasn't like, "Okay, this is what you do." It was like-

52:29 Speaker 1 Oh, yeah

52:30 Speaker 2 ... an idea that they heard that actually-

52:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. There was, there was, there was... I know that, uh, Rabbi Schechter from Philadelphia had a similar. And then there was, who was the fellow in-

52:38 Speaker 2 Chaim rich Derizner

52:38 Speaker 1 ... San Francisco? Where? Who?

52:39 Speaker 2 Chaim rich Derizner.

52:40 Speaker 1 Chaim rich Derizner. Yeah, yeah. A big one. Maybe I saw pictures of it. Efshin, right. Uh, so hang the phone. Okay. I have such schlepper guy, whatever it was, coming, uh, coming. You're, you're always, the first 10, 20 guys that you attract are always a little bit interesting, uh, when you're going shlichas. Uh, and I mentioned to him what I wanna do. Oh, as a home advice, he sits down, and he, and he designed the menora. Fifteen feet, two halves, four branches. Uh, and, and, and the middle is where the two of them are brought together, so you have a menora. So it's three pieces, a chako. There's, uh, the, the, the, the brackets on, on the bottom, so keep it standing upright. And two halves of the menora, four and four attached in the middle, and 15 feet tall, a gemachah design. Now we found up a fabricator, a metal fabricator. It was a yarmulke gelt back then, probably, which I didn't have. You're talking about a long time ago. 500 bucks he wants in segalechter. Um, so there was a metal fabricator. Okay. So then where do I put it? So I'm driving around. There's a government center, Clayton. Clayton is, uh, St. Louis is St. Louis City. It's the city of St. Louis. Where everybody lives is in St. Louis County. The county has a county executive. He's like the mayor of the county. Same thing as a mayor. And the government office building, they had a big, nice plaza. And I

54:17 Speaker 1 had a yungerman over there, a Yid, uh, from a Yid, who was, uh, dreytsakh in politics, and he knew the county executive. I gave him this idea. All of this was whatever. It was news to him. He never... "Okay, Max, the idea," uh, you know. "Let's do something for the Jewish community that time of year," you know. That's basically what it was. It, it seemed that he didn't think it was a problem legally or anything. "I don't have any problem," the county executive. "Sure, mask it." And, uh, what happened was, I come there, delivery, we're bringing it the morning of. The three pieces of the menora are there, and-

54:59 Speaker 2 There was an event or just you wanted to-

55:02 Speaker 1 I-- We were gonna make an event.

55:04 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

55:04 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was the plan. And come there, put-- The first thing was we're putting it up. It was a few days before Hanukkah. First things, we're putting it up. We had the-- Hazal zecher I had that I knew that there was an issue over here, that the Jewish community here and there, you know, they have their shtick, separation, church, state, and whatever it is, that they think this is bothering them. So much zecher I had. You know something? I'm not going to make a big tumult beforehand. Let's get it up. We'll get it up, and they'll come, and it'll already be lo gamar. You know, it's up already. So, so you're in the disposition. I didn't imagine-

55:38 Speaker 2 Anyone was saying-

55:39 Speaker 1 ... the, how it would break out. It, it was a terrible thing.

55:42 Speaker 2 You knew that people locally had an issue, you knew that back home people had an issue.

55:44 Speaker 1 No. No, I didn't know locally.

55:45 Speaker 2 Okay.

55:45 Speaker 1 I didn't talk to anybody about it.

55:47 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

55:47 Speaker 1 But I said, "Uh," I said, "Better keep it quiet until we get it up."

55:50 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

55:51 Speaker 1 Because I used to think again the same home, which saved the day, actually. I come there, it's delivered. No one in the community knows about it. But the county executive's office sent down a guy saying, "Oh, stop. You can't put it up." I was year number one, in contrast to year number two when all you know what broke loose. But year number one, uh, year number one, county executive sent somebody down. We have to have our county, the counselor's office, the legal lawyer of the county needs to take a look at this whether this is okay. And then there was no, there was no rulings from the Supreme Court. Eventually, there was a ruling in Pittsburgh-

56:34 Speaker 2 Pittsburgh

56:34 Speaker 1 ... and a few other things, whatever. That all of that, uh, they tainted that this is unconstitutional. They always tainted that male. I, I'm, I'm not required to listen to their understanding of the Constitution. If the courts will say that it's unconstitutional, then That's basically what my approach was. I didn't underst-- Anyway, the guy comes down, says, "You can't put it up. Wait, the coun- the county counselor is going to study this, and we're gonna decide." Oh. I'm gonna need the EQ. I took out ten cents from my pocket, I went to the payphone, and I called Mosquitoes, and I told him what was happening. I wanna put up a Menorah, and these are the goyim. This is nothing to do with the Jewish community yet. I don't know how long it took. It took an hour, two, three, whatever. I'm waiting over there. They come down. They say, "Okay, you have haskomo." They gave haskomo brocho. This is, uh-

57:33 Speaker 2 This is a matter of minutes or an hour?

57:34 Speaker 1 Not minutes. Hours.

57:36 Speaker 2 Yeah.

57:36 Speaker 1 It took a couple of hours. Guy came down, says, "Yeah, you can, you can do it," so we put it up. Television stations were there, and the county executive was there and took a nice picture with us, and it was also, also given good. It made it to the news. In fact, in-including the, the, the Suffolk that was by the county, and the solution was that it's okay. But the Jews didn't like that. But it was too late. It was already up, and we had a ceremony, gamacht, a couple people came. And but the ikky is that it was, it was visible in a very visible place, the plaza of the county government. And, uh, as far as I'm concerned, I, I, you know, it, it, it, it, it was the persumin nisa that the Rebbe wanted, the television stations and the newspapers. In fact, the controversy ended up being a hechsher on this whole thing, so there was nothing negative about it. Uh, and the Jewish community didn't get their act together to even voice their opposition to it, which I'm sure if they would have known about, they would have. And then it would have been a controversy, and it would have been mired in, in the, the, in this, uh, halukah deis and, you know, come across, which eventually we, we did as, as Bala Machlokis. You know, I didn't do anything wrong. I did whatever the county, uh, you know, gave permission for. We did everything, uh, kadas and kedin. But

59:07 Speaker 1 anyway, that's the way it went. Afterwards-

59:11 Speaker 2 Then was there an answer from the Rebbe?

59:13 Speaker 1 Oh, so wait, so wait.

59:14 Speaker 2 In that original thing?

59:15 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So listen, this is a schator ya nim askir. Schator ya nim askir, I didn't call back to say, "At als is good." That's not the way it should have been. I had a hasanah that I came for a day or two after Hanukkah, and I'm here in seven seventy, and Label Groner comes over to me. There was a settle from the Rebbe. "Mah hoye sof dove be St. Louis?" Says, "First of all, I feel very, very bad, uh, as Amadrafren." Um-

59:59 Speaker 2 The Rebbe wrote what, what, what-

1:00:01 Speaker 1 I want-- He wanted to tell mah hoye sof dove. Oh, but the Rebbe asked already.

1:00:07 Speaker 2 Translate what that means.

1:00:09 Speaker 1 Translate what it means. What was the conclusion in St. Louis? So I went to work as soon as I got home. It was after the chassan the next day, whatever. Uh, I took all the articles and the letters to the editors. That's a chab kiton. People wrote, and I responded. Uh, most of the lishenas that I responded were from the Rebbe's letters. Mamish took out paragraphs from the Rebbe's letters, uh, uh, to the Teaneck story-

1:00:38 Speaker 2 Federation

1:00:38 Speaker 1 ... because I see that are appropriate. If it worked in Teaneck, should work in St. Louis also. Whatever. But they wrote, they wrote very harsh things, very harsh things. And there's also an element over here to be melamed sfus on them. I'm an unknown to them, and they had no idea what was coming next. You know, here's this, this new guy comes to town. Nobody knows which synagogue he belongs to. Nobody knows what he's doing and, and, and what is, uh, end objective of yours. And he comes, and he upends we, uh, this long-standing position of the Jewish community against these things. And comes this young guy, Mamish, you know, new in town, and, uh, tit for savil. So, you know, it shook up, it shook up their, their, uh... So I'm, I'm, I'm being melamed sfus a little bit why they felt the way they felt. Uh, but so I wrote, piled in. There's a whole pile of stuff that I wrote, what I sent, whatever little piece that was on it. And that's when I got that answer afterwards.

1:01:39 Speaker 2 What answer?

1:01:40 Speaker 1 So the answer that I got was a oystern of an answer, and it goes along this line of the Rebbe. It's, it's, uh, you know, did something, and we, we hold this, both my wife and I. It was a very difficult time. We didn't realize it. That was gonna happen next year. The real difficult time was war that broke out, Mamish, the whole community against us, practically.

1:02:08 Speaker 2 I wanna hear about that, Ricky. Tell us.

1:02:09 Speaker 1 But, but that's-- So but this answer was prepping us-

1:02:12 Speaker 2 Ah.

1:02:12 Speaker 1 For what was gonna come next week-- next year Uh, the answer was as follows. I asked a few things. I-

1:02:18 Speaker 2 That's the, um... It's a copy or that's-

1:02:20 Speaker 1 No, this is my handwriting.

1:02:21 Speaker 2 This is you copy from Maskirus.

1:02:23 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

1:02:25 Speaker 2 Okay.

1:02:25 Speaker 1 I have it. I have it in my wallet. All these years I carry the Xaviat Kirdisov of, of Bne Yaomaklan.

1:02:32 Speaker 2 Can I see it?

1:02:34 Speaker 1 You're not going to see it.

1:02:35 Speaker 2 Yeah.

1:02:36 Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah. In fact, find it over here. Mistam, it's here. Yeah, it's here. I have the little stuff Gizen sitting around over there.

1:02:47 Speaker 2 So you keep this in your pocket always?

1:02:48 Speaker 1 I keep this, this has always been here.

1:02:50 Speaker 2 Okay. No, I'm zoom.

1:02:51 Speaker 1 It's, it's, it's folded. Let me see. This is the answer. It's gonna probably break into pieces because it's old. But let me show you. This is it. Xaviat Kotio Bne Yaomaklan. This is it. You want to see that? The host.

1:03:18 Speaker 2 I, I find it, uh, amazing that you carry it in your pocket.

1:03:22 Speaker 1 I put it in then I never took it out. It, it, it wasn't like a...

1:03:27 Speaker 2 Okay. So how-

1:03:28 Speaker 1 So the, so the answers was-

1:03:29 Speaker 2 Yeah. Can you read it and, uh-

1:03:30 Speaker 1 Yeah

1:03:31 Speaker 2 ... and translate it also.

1:03:32 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:03:33 Speaker 2 I'm looking at it while you, uh-

1:03:34 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe writes, there were f-- there were three parts to the answer. One was the Hagdama, and then there was the answer to the question. I, I thought I was hoping I'd be able to get a response from the Rebbe on how to respond to their titus. Now we have to see if we can get a little bit more, and they also called a meeting, and they wanted me to come to the meeting, which actually never materialized. So what should be the position at the meeting? I wanted to know. Anyway, but the, the Hagdama was Ashrei Chelko-

1:04:02 Speaker 2 One second.

1:04:03 Speaker 1 What?

1:04:03 Speaker 2 Lahagiv ala-

1:04:04 Speaker 1 Lahogiv ala kafavah. That's Rebbe circle my words. And here he circled the words-

1:04:10 Speaker 2 Va'asifa

1:04:11 Speaker 1 Va'asifa. So those were answers to one and two.

1:04:14 Speaker 2 The same, same, same. So the-

1:04:15 Speaker 1 That's the way it went. Those are-- That's the way the Rebbe's answer was. So he made an asterisk and then wrote the answer to that part of the question.

1:04:21 Speaker 2 This is what you wrote?

1:04:22 Speaker 1 These are the-

1:04:24 Speaker 2 Hagiv ala katavah

1:04:25 Speaker 1 ... I wrote those are my words, and Bne Yaomah circled it because the Rebbe circled it and put an asterisk next to it.

1:04:30 Speaker 2 So if you, you're asking what the answer-

1:04:32 Speaker 1 And what to respond to on their article

1:04:34 Speaker 2 ... on the article. Let me see an asterisk, and then-

1:04:36 Speaker 1 And number two-

1:04:36 Speaker 2 What should I say about the meeting?

1:04:37 Speaker 1 How do, how do the position we should take at the asifa.

1:04:39 Speaker 2 It's a second asterisk. Okay.

1:04:40 Speaker 1 That was the second... But actually, the first answer is before and probably on the other side. Probably if you could flip it over. Ashrei Chelko ve'gadol chuso. Uh, praise is his portion, and great is his chus. Shekid shem Shamayim, that he sanctified Hashem's name. Um, let me just read it in translation. Ve'chulu, et cetera, underlined twice. Ve'lo hisbah ish mipnei ha'maligim, and he was not, um, that was, was not embarrassed before those who scoff, who dismiss, or any-anyone who's a, a malik is anyone stands in the way and, uh, um, of a good thing. Ve'hefiz yahadus bepoel, and he disseminated Yahadus Judaism. Bepoel, actual. Betoch river voice among tens of thousands underlined, Me'acheinu Bnei Yisro schliter ve'chulu. So there weren't, there were no tens of thousands who actually saw the minorah, but the story hit the media in such a big way that they heard about it. And so I... There are a few things over here, a few things over here. Uh, the, the, the, the, the, there's no Hagzama over here. The Rebbe wasn't Hagzama, of course. So you understand how the importance of these things are and how the Rebbe was machshifit. Um, and this continues, I'm gonna share, continued afterwards also for weeks and months later also. And the value that the Rebbe put on media. At that time, that wasn't so muskam in the Jewish community, in the Frum community.

1:06:41 Speaker 2 The media-

1:06:42 Speaker 1 What's that media was-

1:06:43 Speaker 2 The media is a medium

1:06:43 Speaker 1 ... goyish. Yeah, versus, you know, what's, what's the use of that? There was no appreciation of it. It could be that even among Anshei Shlemenu, there wasn't... You know, this is secondary. Yeah, but it's, it's not a tachlis, but it's, it delivers the tachlis. You, you, you, you inform people and, and, and, and you present it as a, a celebration of Yiddishkeit. It's all these, all the things that the Rebbe writes in those letters, uh, to Tnek. And the, the media was something which was, which w-was a big deal. Otherwise, I don't understand what the river voice Me'acheinu Bnei Yisro was tens of thousands. Um, and the answer-- the soft Maasi is L'poel Maamish is not only did this thing die down, uh, I'll tell, I'll tell you some stories, it died down, but, uh, it really, uh, catapulted us.

1:07:41 Speaker 2 Right.

1:07:41 Speaker 1 It put us into a position so everybody now knows, knows about us.

1:07:45 Speaker 2 To be reckoned with.

1:07:46 Speaker 1 Yeah. That-

1:07:46 Speaker 2 What's... There's the other, the other half of the minorah.

1:07:48 Speaker 1 Yes. It's coming. It's coming up.

1:07:50 Speaker 2 Oh, okay.

1:07:51 Speaker 1 So Bne Geia, the article, how to respond to the article and how to, the position to take at the meeting, which was going to take place, Bne Geia one and two. See that?

1:08:02 Speaker 2 Mm-hmm.

1:08:03 Speaker 1 Vechol kiyesu, and any other, any other questions, and here's a, a wonderful example of how, uh, the Rebbe... Yes. Get the same thing in, what's the Shlichus Gil Chose? What's the Shreir's book? The same sentiment That there are a lot of things that need to be decided on the spot. And, and, and that's not gonna be the way he wanted it to be. It's not a kal gadal. There are some things, as you'll see, some things that need to be, uh, kept kind of uniform. But nevertheless, you know, there's-- there, there are things that are local in nature, and, uh... A-anyway, let me read this. "B'negeia one and two v'chol ki yotzu," any similar questions, "Yisdabru ha-shluchim sheyichi b'matzav kahanal beineihom." There should be a conversation among the shluchim who share that, these kinds of situations. "Behishtatus," in parenthesis, "Behishtatus haYedea hamatzav b'Washington, harav Avram Yitzchok HaShamtev," the one who is familiar with the situation in Washington, Rabbi Avram Shamtev. And what's the purpose of that conversation? "L'menoe astidas mezela ze," to prevent contradictions from one to the other. "Ve'aderaba lisaye ze laze," and quite to the contrary, that one should help the other. So at that time, uh, it was very easy for a schlich to feel that this is his little world.

1:09:45 Speaker 4 A local issue.

1:09:45 Speaker 1 And the repercussions of that, that the JCRC, for example, in this town, Jewish Community Relations Council, is gonna hear what somebody else did and was mevater, wasn't mevater, wasn't mevater, so forth and so on, and then it becomes you don't understand the precedent that you set. And-- but this concept really is a very good one to keep in mind, essential, that things that one person does really establishes you're not only your local rabbi of your local little Chabad house, big or little. You are representing Council of Lubavitch, and that's the Rebbe. And you need to make sure that you're not creating precedents that, uh, the Rebbe will be displeased with. And that's a great achrayus, and that's something for everybody to keep in mind. So we did that. What happened was this-

1:10:42 Speaker 4 Then the Rebbe finished off, "Ask her al hatzi"-

1:10:44 Speaker 1 "Al, ask her al hatzi"-

1:10:45 Speaker 4 "V'chol hanal."

1:10:45 Speaker 1 "V'chol hanal," right. Um-

1:10:50 Speaker 4 So you said you did that.

1:10:51 Speaker 1 So the opportunity to-- When was there an opportunity to sh-speak to all the shluchim and who were in this matzav, or were potentially in this matzav, or they were preparing to have a maneiga and, uh, and whatever. Kness-- First Knesset Shluchim. So I went over to, to, to Rabbi Krinsky, and by the way, uh, Rabbi Krinsky was a great support. The, the, this-- When that, when all of that broke loose the second year, you have no idea what I mean by that. It, it was-- There weren't two Jews who met that Chanukah and for a week afterwards, who this was not the topic of conversation. So it was And they very, uh, artfully made me the, the, the bad guy.

1:11:43 Speaker 4 Right.

1:11:43 Speaker 1 'Cause until I came to town, the askanim were shawn shtil.

1:11:46 Speaker 4 Ah.

1:11:47 Speaker 1 And all of a sudden, I come to town, there's a big problem. What did I do? Absolutely nothing wrong. Whatever they had a problem with was their own interpretation of the Constitution-

1:11:55 Speaker 4 Right

1:11:56 Speaker 1 ... uh, without any yesod. And it turned out that, uh, years later, a couple of years later, that's exactly what the Supreme Court said. Um, so there, uh-

1:12:07 Speaker 4 You're saying you went to Rabbi Krinsky.

1:12:11 Speaker 1 What was that?

1:12:12 Speaker 4 You're saying-

1:12:12 Speaker 1 No, that-- I'm not saying that. He was moedet a lot.

1:12:14 Speaker 4 Ah.

1:12:14 Speaker 1 He was moedet a lot. Um, and both he and, uh, Rabbi Groner as well, the Rebbe wanted to know blow by blow what was going on.

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1:14:02 Speaker 1 Second year to, to, to, to, to get down to the poe mamish, uh, they understood from everything that I said that I want you to know, I never had, uh, I'm not taking a great deal of credit for it, this is how we were brought up. Never entertained for a minute not to do it with all the lachatz that was brought first year, from the first year to the second year. Um, but they saw this as a, as a, that this is gonna be-- is destroying everything that the Jewish community built for who knows how long. I mean, that's the way they saw it. They saw it as a real threat to them. Uh-

1:14:44 Speaker 4 To the Jewish organization

1:14:44 Speaker 1 And they also understood that this is the way it's gonna be, you know, you know. Uh, so they, uh-- We tried the best we can. Tried the best they can to communicate-

1:14:56 Speaker 4 So what, what, what was the heart of it? It's the opposition to Lubavitch, or they're-

1:14:59 Speaker 1 No

1:14:59 Speaker 4 ... afraid of something?

1:15:01 Speaker 1 It-- On the outside, there were, there were two. Two, because it's probably a combination of both. They're uncomfortable. These are people who were very accustomed to keeping Yiddishkeit shosh still, not in the street. Outside is type thing. That-that's the attitude. We keep shosh still wherever Jewish is. They said these things to me, you know. Um, some of it, they were malbushing in the itztele of kedusha, uh, by saying, "You're commercializing Hanukkah like the other holiday. You know, it's meant to be the families together in the home, you know." So they, they saw this as offensive to whatever preconceived idea they had of what Hanukkah is supposed to be, which wasn't exactly the same as ours. And, uh, so the-- so that was one. The others, there were some who were kind of principled. They call it the slippery slope, you know. Uh, you have to, you have to protect this separation of church and state. You have to keep religion out of it. This is our mandate from the Constitution. This is our chof kodesh, and in their minds- It's not in the Constitution, by the way. What? It's not in the Constitution. It's not. No. That's correct. The law of separation is not. For sure not. Yeah. For sure not. There is a, an establishment clause, but we're not gonna go into the, the, the, the shades- Legalities ...of the law. Yeah. So, um, so some of them were principled about this matter, and they saw this as slippery slope. "You do this today,

1:16:39 Speaker 1 next thing what's gonna happen is they're gonna force kids to make a, you know, to, to say something on Christmas and, uh, Jewish kids and whatever." Lepeal mamash, the Rebbe argues that it's puncta heprach. That if you don't utilize the, the, the rights and the freedoms that America, that America is, is, is giving us, then you lose them. Yeah. The way to exercise the b-best thing how to preserve it is to exercise those liberties. That's-- We're malbushing in whatever. You know, I, I think I, I, I said that when we, when we last spoke, I, I kind of said this. There is a chinuch, all of, all of the mitzvot, including this as well. Yeah, the Rebbe wanted to be mevatel kol hamone sh'remi. He wanted people out there to see. He wanted to see a robust and a proud and an open celebration of Hanukkah, and he want to get American Jews a little out of their, you know, famachte thing, that this is something we do shtu a heit in private heit. He want, yes, that's for sure. But he also was mechanech us. It's the same nekuda with-- I'm, I'm getting off a little bit. The same nekuda with mitzvot. You know, mitzvat tefillin, you st-you stand in the street, millions of people have put on tefillin. Millions of them. Part of the reason, these Jews, this one was a kakaf to the lemon after tefillin. Other, uh, whatever, he has to do put on tefillin today, and here you are, mitzvat

1:18:09 Speaker 1 hava Yidden mizakim with a mitzvah. The Ebesh is happy, the Yid is happy, and the shliach is happy, or whoever is doing the mitzvah is happy. So it's a good thing. There's a much, much deeper nekuda which the others who are into kiruv rechokim so far, some, some, some, they, they, they, they, they miss that, which is why they don't do the kind of stuff that... Our guy is standing out there, and, uh, uh, it's hot in the heat and the cold, and he's standing out there, uh, taking off time from learning. And most of the answers that he gets are rejections. And he goes, and again, he continues, and he... And if he's zecher and he gets some of the tefillins, are ganze simcha. The tire ket of a Yid, every Yid, you never met him before, you're not gonna see him again, you're not gonna get a donation from him, you're not gonna get, uh, whatever. You're not, uh, there's, there's no long-term relationship over here. You don't even get his name and address. Nowadays, you would say, I don't know if they take the email addresses nowadays. Maybe they do. But, uh, uh, but even that, garnished, all you did was you did a mitzvah Yidden. And for them is mishnan and you stand in the street, and that chinuch gets baked in. The tire ket of Yid is natural to us because the Rebbe taught us that. Tire ket of an ein mitzvah is natural to us. With his bun in

1:19:41 Speaker 1 his kallah, you know. Uh, we can, we can rekindle that. To others, it's, it's completely strange. Completely strange. Mechap nisht. Mechap nisht, and that's... You think the fact that there are, I don't know, four thousand, five thousand Botei Chabad around the world, and millions and millions and millions of Jews who are touched by it, happens to be Lubavitch. Why? Because there's some great organization in the world of Lubavitch, some master plan, marketing plan that succeeded that. No. No. There probably are better marketers out there than us, and more organized people than us. That have a pashut. It's this nekuda, the Rebbe was mechanech us. And we have to realize it, the yokir of that. And that is why Lubavitch today, not Lubavitch, it's the Rebbe. It's, it's-- That's, that is why w-we, we are who we are. And the others are still scratching their heads and wondering, "How did they do it?" Now come learn some Hasidic stuff. Learn how we did it. But that's the nekuda. Thus is the nekuda. Anyway, where am I up to in my story? I mean, talking about the opposition of the second year The second year was, was, uh, uh, was huge. It was intense. It was the front page of the Jewish Light, which is the, the weekly newspaper over there. It was the editorial of the Jewish Light. Um, it was Right And, and, and it's who got up and thundered against this, and they said, you know, "If this is what they're gonna do in

1:23:17 Speaker 1 our community, I'm gonna do-- " We had announced the building campaign already at that point. "So I'm gonna do whatever I can." This is former rabbi of a leading congregation of the, probably the largest one in town, and St. Louis is predominantly Reform. He got up and he thought, "I'm gonna do whatever I can to, to, to, to make sure it doesn't happen." And there were people who withdrew some pledges, some major pledges, like, uh... I did whatever-- This wasn't chas v'Shalom. I n-never did petur complaint. I informed. Whatever happened, fast things happened. Blow by blow every day, there was five things that happened, right? So I'd call in, and I'd say, "This happened. This is what this one did, and this is what that one did." There were some interesting guerillas, uh, which I, I, I cannot share, but there were some interesting guerillas- Yeah, I know. It's throughout this thing. Yeah. There were some interesting guerillas on, on, on how to deal with some individuals. Uh, it, it, it will stay for now. Maybe there will be some time. Um, and we held our ground, but the, the, our leading balabatim were concerned because they were raising money. They, they're meant to help us, and they saw us, "Oy vey, what's gonna be with our fundraising for Chabad?" You know. And I-- You know what I said to them? I said to them, "I was-- I was-- Uh, the naivete is Baruch Hashem, uh, at that time was a beautiful one. Uh, but,

1:24:45 Speaker 1 you know, over the years, it kind of dissipates the, the, the elanu she... I said to them, to these of my friends who were raising money, I said, "If I change my position on a thing like this because of somebody's donation, then I'm, I'm, I'm the same as the others. That's how they run their business. That's not us." And I owe them a grill of gratitude that they, they, they accepted it, and they supported me. And all these things, um, you know, everything I wrote, this one said, that one said, whatever. There, there, there was fifty thousand dollars back then, a donation, two brothers. That withdrew. That withdrew. Uh, fifty thousand dollars in nineteen eighty-three, nineteen eighty was a lot of money. Even today, it's not, uh, a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. For a building campaign, it's, uh- Right It doesn't buy a building. Understood. It was, it was a, it, it was a tough thing, but I to- I don't know, my, my tzimmes was straightforward, I'll just tell you. There was a time right after that meeting where the county executive had to do something. He had to give in to some of that pressure. He couldn't say-- So he kind of cut the baby in half. What did he do? He said, "You know, you can put it up for one day. You can put it up for one day. Uh, you can't camp out there." A plaza shorter he made. Now, putting it up for one day, if it's a

1:26:17 Speaker 1 violation of church and state, is one day torment So I tell him what's going on. I tell him what's going on. "Nu, Hillel, vos iz der gezugt? Vos iz at the end?" He want to know what, what did the county executive says? I told him that, "Iz gezugt I can put it up only for one day." "Nu, az du farn gezugt du, du kannst," so he says. So he said that you could, right? "Zog ikh in beb Shmuel Dovid. S'iz a melevin's sun inyen. It has to be done in a big way. It can't be done. Vos iz this one day?" "Yo, yo, yo. Iz ger echt. Iz ger echt." He agreed. Anyway, so I remember that. Ve kitzu. Like I said to you, no one in town, Jews, two Jews didn't meet without talking. This was a topic of conversation. Somehow, baHashgacha Protis, the federation... This is the Koch story. The federation had an annual meeting. Annual meeting is where they bring all their big supporters. A couple hundred people. It was a breakfast that year in the Breckenridge Hotel, a great breakfast. They have planned it beforehand, and this was, I think, Zois Chanukah. I think it was the last day of Chanukah, maybe the day after Zois Chanukah. And the, the, the city is still kocht, is kocht over all these things. Um, mamirim and masmilim, mostly masminim, masmilim uh, against this guy who came and caused trouble. Or I am the cause of the problem because until I came, nobody, uh,

1:28:34 Speaker 1 there, there was no arguments. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm the cause of the arguments. If you don't do anything, then there's no tainus. So they, so they get... I'm sorry? If you don't do anything, then there aren't any tainus. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. No, but listen, arguing is, uh, making an argument is not the tachlis of our thing, and the Rebbe didn't want that either. But if it broke out, we held our ground. I think that's was the Rebbe's approach. It's not davka the Rebbe-- I'm not sure. I can't say with certainty that you davka have to go there to this and this place af tzelochas to, to, to, to, to spite them. I don't think that that was the kavana. But if that was your decision and you did it, don't back down because these guys, because of all these krumeh tainus that they have. Bishumei finished. And that's the Chilul Hashem pa-- uh, Ki- Kiddush Hashem that he thinks. 'Cause backing down a retreat in a Jewish inyen is a Chilul Hashem, and their position is that. And that's what Kiddush Hashem Sh'mayim, I think. I think. Anyway, so the last day of Chanukah, the day after that, and they're having this annual meeting with a breakfast, a great seudah. And the guest speaker... Now, who comes to federation's annual meeting? All these letterhead organizations, American Jewish Congress, American Jewish Committee, Jewish Community Relations, all the alphabet soup of traditional cla-- um, establishment Jewish organizations. The, all the people who

1:30:00 Speaker 1 hold the views, you know, who thought that the menorah is the worst thing in the world at that, at, at that moment. And they, they're there, and they make up of, of like the couple hundred people who were there and whatever. So the guest speaker, I don't know how they got the guest speaker to come. It was the mayor of New York City. It was Ed Koch. You probably don't remember ever hearing Ed Koch, you know? 'Cause- I'm familiar with Ed Koch You heard of him. Yeah. He was a bombastic fellow. He spoke, you know, whole spar. He said what he wanted to say, and then he said it loud and clear and very duger. Um, and, you know, whole spar. He, he whatever. Nisht nisvol. That's the way he was. That was the personality. Um, he's a, a brash New Yorker, you might want to say, and very proud of his Yiddishkeit. I- On his matzeva he wrote, "My..." Yeah. Yes. I heard him say that. Someone asked him, a reporter asked him. You hear him saying that. I heard it. I heard it on some station. A reporter asked him, "What would you like your epithet to be?" Um, "A proud Jew," something like that, he answers. That was the first thing. And then the, um, passionate love for New York. That was number two. I think his matzeva had Shma Yisrael on it. But I think it was very number two. Yeah, he wants it. Anyway, so he's coming to town. Why

1:31:37 Speaker 1 he agreed to come to speak was, uh, for him, St. Louis, you know, for, for, okay. And he gives a talk. He was the Ki- He was the mayor at the time. At the time, sitting mayor, yeah. Yeah. And he g- He's giving this talk. He didn't talk any, nothing about the menorah. He had no idea what was going on in St. Louis about this menorah. You were at this dinner? Who? You were at this breakfast? I was not. That morning, there was a bris. One of our hanash had a baby, and there was a bris that morning, and I remember people coming from that to the bris, and they shared what happened. Okay. And so I heard the mamash fresh firsthand story. Um, Zol zayn gezunt, the Cohns, Sholem Cohn. Uh, I don't know where-- He used to live in Pittsburgh for many years. Um, had a bris. Anyway, so I'm at the bris, and, and this is the story. It talked about you. It was the meise. He finishes speaking, and someone, I know who it is, a friend of mine. At that point, the Frum community backed me up 100% in St. Louis. They saw this as anti-Yiddishkeit. They saw it anti the Orthodox community, and there were no Lubavitch. They weren't Lubavitchers by any stretch of the imagination, but this is out of hand what's going on. And they jumped, to their credit, they jumped to whatever they were able to do in terms of defense. So, um, so a- questions

1:33:05 Speaker 1 and answers Guy has his hand, says, "Mr. Mayor, you're a Jewish mayor of the largest city with the largest Jewish population. Could you tell us how you deal with religious symbols on public property, and specifically with a menorah on public property?" When that question was asked, there was a big gasp that went up from the whole audience. Couldn't believe. They were embarrassed that this was brought up, that this was brought up in front of the illustrious visitor, the mayor from New York. Yeah, yeah, now he knows the shanda that's going on in St. Louis. They were, they were, they were aghast. Right. But he doesn't know, ‹ foreign language›, what's going on. Menorah, public property, no problem. He says, "I am fully in favor of it and support it as long as it's privately funded. That's the way we-- Let me tell you something. We have one in Manhattan here, and we have one in Manhattan there." I didn't know the places that he mentioned, uh, the few public menorahs that we have, something. And, uh, I don't have any problem with it. I think it's perfectly fine as long as it's privately funded. So that alone for the people in the room, oh, no, he's taking the wrong side on the issue. Mm. It's a Jewish mayor, though. And ‹foreign language›. So basically, what he's saying is, at a minimum, "It's okay. It's okay. Both, both sides have a point. Whatever they can make, it's okay." Yeah. I think you, you skipped the part

1:34:45 Speaker 1 that he said, "And in fact, we-" In fact... You're good. You're good. He says, "Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something about the menorah." He says, "The people who put up the menorah in Manhattan, they're the Lubavitchers," he says, "and they live in Brooklyn, and the Man- Menorah's in Manhattan. Friday afternoon when they light the menorah, it's real close to Shabbos, and they have to get home to Brooklyn in time for Shabbos." This is him telling this for the, for the crowd that wanted to hear this the least. Right. He's telling them, "So what we do is we give them a helicopter, and we fly them from Manhattan to Brooklyn, so they c- they can get home in time for Shabbos." That's the story. I heard the story, and I picked up the phone, and I called the maskires and, uh, I told, I told Leibel. He says, "The Rebbe smiles from..." I say from ear to ear, but he says, "The Rebbe smiled when he heard that story." So broad. It was a big, big, huge... He had nachas from Kach. Yeah. He had nachas from Kach, and he's, "Dos heyst, khazzer zokt dos is constitutional." That's what the Rebbe said . The, the Rebbe said, and that's what, uh, Leibel told me when he told the story, "Dos heyst, khazzer zokt that's constitutional." Constitutional. The Rebbe just wanted to gain people, you know, who, who, who support this. Get rid of this argument of, uh, constitution. And this is before

1:36:12 Speaker 1 the, that Supreme Court case? Before the Supreme Court. Everything was before. Yeah. I'll tell you another couple of things. I come back to seventeen seventy. No. This is before coming back to seventeen seventy. Um, I get-- I can actually see where the date it was. ‹foreign language› the dates. What's ‹foreign language› over here, the point over here is I get a letter in the mail. I get a letter in the mail from Reb Yankele Yehuda Hertz, JJ. He didn't know me. He didn't know me. I never spoke to him. I can't, I can't ever remember seeing the person going, "Yeah, ‹foreign language›." He didn't know what was going on in St. Louis. This wasn't reported locally. There w- were no-- There, there was no means of, of really reporting this. There's only one way, and, and you can kinda guess at it. That he writes me a letter of support. And it's-- You can read it. I have-- only have a copy of it over here. You can, you can... Yeah, this is it, I think. I think this is it. And somehow found it. This was December twelfth, nineteen eighty-three. And he writes a little system. At the end up, "Don't listen to those guys, all those people who think that you have to hide your Jewishness. You know, that's, that's not the way to go. Out there nowadays, you, everybody's out there with what they stand for. Not to be embarrassed, and this, what you did is a great thing, and keep up

1:37:57 Speaker 1 the good work, and may Hashem be with you in all your undertakings." And the whole article is you, you hear Yankel Hertz over there. Throughout the whole page, you hear him over there. What's the ‹foreign language›? How did this happen? I can't say with certainty that he didn't write this, unless he was told to. It seems out of the blue, like why would he send you such a letter? Yeah. It doesn't make sense. Was he just going around being ‹foreign language›? He didn't hear the story either. I can guarantee you. I, I can't say with certainty, so I'm qualifying what I'm saying, but I'm willing to bet on it that this was Mel Miller who's told him to write a letter. What, what was- And he describes himself ‹foreign language› about the National Committee for Further Jewish Education, making a major organization. You know, ‹foreign language› because I wrote that they had a whole bunch of letterhead organizations- Yeah ... who wrote against it. So he's the National Committee for... "Is one of the world's largest educational movements today and wishes to extend a heartfelt congratulations on the accomplishments of erecting a menorah in the heart of St. Louis, ‹foreign language›. Too long we've shown the world an inferiority complex." He goes, he goes, he goes. He pounds away, and ‹foreign language›. So what went on here? Somebody thought, somebody. Somebody thought and said, "Go on. We're on the maskirem." Told the... I'm guessing. I'm only guessing. "Write a letter. Tell him to write a

1:39:41 Speaker 1 letter, a viduit. A viduit that he can show to somebody." That, then a couple of months later, I think it was a couple of months, I'm right there in seventeen seventy. I see... I think I was more in seventeen seventy than I was in St. Louis. Uh, that wasn't, actually wasn't the case, but this is the story. So I see, I see Leibel again. "Oh, oh," he says, "The Rebbe gave me something that I should give to you." He told me ‹foreign language›. "The Rebbe gave me something I should give to you." "What?was, was?" He didn't remember. "Come into the office when you have a chance." Uh, can't even remember. He couldn't even remember what it was, and then he finally remembered, and he's going around. I remember him muttering to himself in his office. We're trying to find it, and he says to himself, he says, "This place over here." He says, "By the time you walk from here to there, you have five distractions." He says, "About the, about the director's office." So this is why he-- He's like, "I can't remember where he put it."

1:40:44 Speaker 5 Was the Meiser.

1:40:47 Speaker 1 There was that Hanukkah in New Jersey, the state of New Jersey issued a proclamation, the General Assembly, actually, the whole legislature voted on this. And it's a resolution adopted January nine, nineteen eighty-four. And they-- It's all about Hanukkah. And it also mentions these words, "Friends of Lubavitch." I don't know who sent them into the Rebbe. I don't know whether it was Friends of-- I don't know who it was. Maybe it was-- 'cause I think Moshe Harrison didn't go by Friends of Lubavitch. I don't think that was . "Whereas the Friends of Lubavitch reminded us anew during the season of religious observance of the high concepts of ethical and righteous principles, uh, for which we all share, and to which we all strive by consecrating a menorah before the state capital during this festival of Hanukkah in commemoration of the first recorded military victory over spiritual oppression." It's one of the whereas, whereas, whereas. And this was sent in to the Rebbe.

1:41:55 Speaker 5 Someone sent that to the Rebbe, and the Rebbe-

1:41:56 Speaker 1 And the Rebbe made this notation there with the Rebbe's pencil. You can see it. And told them to send it in to St. Louis, that I should-- This is the Rebbe's pencil mark.

1:42:07 Speaker 5 "We all strive by consecrating." So the Rebbe's highlighting this section.

1:42:11 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:42:11 Speaker 5 "We all strive-

1:42:11 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah

1:42:12 Speaker 5 ... to consecrate a menorah before the state capital during this festival of Hanukkah in commemoration of the first recorded military victory over spiritual oppression."

1:42:19 Speaker 1 And they made a menorah. They consecrated the menorah to state capital.

1:42:22 Speaker 5 And this is the part that the Rebbe-

1:42:24 Speaker 1 So the Rebbe highlighted that and says-

1:42:26 Speaker 5 An arrow

1:42:26 Speaker 1 ... send it to St. Louis.

1:42:29 Speaker 5 Leibel told you that's the Rebbe's handwriting?

1:42:31 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Okay. S-this, it's, it's-- This is what the Frierdiker Rebbe says about, uh... You have to remind me.

1:42:52 Speaker 5 The what? Ah.

1:42:53 Speaker 1 It's the Rebbe. You know what's going on.

1:42:55 Speaker 5 Oh, are you saying what the Frierdiker Rebbe told-

1:42:56 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So remind-

1:42:58 Speaker 5 Rebbe's thinking about

1:42:58 Speaker 1 It gives me goosebumps every time I think about it, so . Oh, there's a, there's a young man over there who's having a problem, and this might help him. Hmm. So these are the... It's, it's not me. I'm, I'm sure it's every shliach. Uh, you know, you do your, you do your work . You know, on freigen kashes and on chachmas. Um, and then you get a little bit older, and some of the stuff, uh, you think that you're getting smarter-

1:43:43 Speaker 5 That you could do it on your own

1:43:44 Speaker 1 ... but you're no worry. No, you have your own . "What gemeint dos or gemeint dos," whatever. No, don't learn any pshat of vos ma had gemeint. You're not a fashtayer of vos ma had gemeint. Just do what you're told kind of thing. And dos is dos, and dos is dos. So those are the couple of stories. Just like an interesting thing, which has to do more with the, the history in St. Louis, which before I went out on shlichus, it's very important for-- to contextualize these answers from the Rebbe or these horahs. You have to contextualize it, and sometimes we, we are not able to do that. Gezagt, Rabbi Gezagt, uh, you have, you have to contextualize it from any context, and then, then maybe you understand it. Uh, and, and, and if-- and then you need to listen to what the Alter Rebbe writes about Hani. You gotta talk to the elders in your community. Before I came to St. Louis, I was again giving the Seder, whatever. I went and had a conversation with Rabbi Hardekopf. Now, St. Louis is unique in many ways. Probably every shliach thinks that his place is unique in many ways. But in this area, you know, I think we're unique, shall be unique. When I came there, there was a whole Olam of-- don't wanna denigrate a community of people by calling them Mesnagdim. They're not that. They really aren't. But, uh, what the Rebbe would call Olam Mishah. And there were even, among them, a

1:45:38 Speaker 1 couple of people who were de-doing Kiruv Rechokim, quote-unquote, which was a term that the Rebbe didn't, that didn't, didn't seem-- was displeased by, I wanna say, because they're not Rechokim. Anyway, Rebbe spoke about that. So I wanted to know, this is my eigenes sechel. I wanted to, I wanted to hear what, uh, Rabbi Hardekopf says about working together with them. Yeah, it's nice to be friendly, not to be accused of competing, not to be accused of chaves vas or hurting some other this and that and the other. I wanted to know. And this is Frum. These are from Eden. From Eden. So I'm reminded of the story, the Torah story. So I went and I spoke to him about this, and I asked him, "What do you think?" I wasn't slanting the question not to do it. Fakerek, I think maybe, if anything, it was something like that. I said, "Yeah." Or what would I have anticipated? Yeah, that was nice. Can't answer some of them. No. That wasn't his answer. He said this as he loved to give meshulam. I don't know if you know that. He had a muscle for everything. And he just-- But he was very clear, deliberate. He wasn't on the fence about this. He says, "Azoy vi in refuah. Izdo shites in refuah." You have this approach to refuah and this approach to refuah. And there's a certain roif and a certain cheila that would respond davka to this derech. And there's another roif and another cheila who responds

1:47:33 Speaker 1 in a different way and treats in a different way. And they both are doing good things. But to mix them up, I don't know. I'm now, I'm kind of putting words, but to mix them up, it's a prescription for disaster, but that's not what he-- Those weren't the words that he used. So he-- And I watched over the years, and in fact, the Shlichas Gil Chosid book has a lot of that as well. And in Igris Kades, you see a lot of that as well. And it goes back to the same question. The fact that we have 5,000 Chabad houses is because of Chassidis, and it's because of the Rebbe, and the Rebbe's approach to a Yid, and the Rebbe's approach to Torah and Mitzvah every single Yid. And that's what he teaches us in all kinds of ways, in all kinds of ways that he gets us to go along with that. We have a Nevesh of Bahamas that is resisting, but that's everything that the Rebbe taught us. And these things are as much for us, like I said, in all kinds of polas, they're as much for us. I think when we spoke about it, I talked about, you know, the Rebbe was talking about Mi Yehudi. The Rebbe was talking about Tahum for the Yeshiva Bachanim. The Rebbe would talk about, the Rebbe would talk about Schlochem, Machzor Schlochem. Things that had no shaikas to the Yeshivas, and they were there by the hundreds, and the Rebbe didn't want to be

1:49:07 Speaker 1 mavatel Torah, chas v'shalom. And the answer is that this was a chinuch. This was a chinuch of how you look at the world and how you understand the world and how a Yid is supposed to see another Yid's mitzvah, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So let me tell you something. Ancient history. 1930s, when the Rebbe came to St. Louis, the Friediker Rebbe, there was a newspaper in St. Louis at that time called Der Yiddishe Record, a Yiddish language newspaper. A lot of the stuff that was printed in the story about the Rebbe's visit to St. Louis is from there, the information that we have. Why? The editor of the newspaper, Geven HaYid of Sot, Leib Gehatem Rebbe, he loved the Rebbe and understood the Mesires Nepesh. I understood this big word. I take that back. But he was enamored-

1:49:55 Speaker 6 He appreciated it.

1:49:56 Speaker 1 Appreciated the Friediker Rebbe and the Gevaldik Mesires Nepesh that was going on in Russia. He writes four weeks' worth of articles. It was a weekly. He writes, and the glowing terms, no one writes about anybody like that, the way he writes about the Friediker Rebbe. What was his mehus? He was an eirlech Yid, by the way, Shemes Torah and Mitzvah, in gantzen, a shtikle of Hamech Chochim. He was a Mizrachist. He was a Zionistische kind of guy. And what was the matzvah of American Yiddishkeit in 1930? So it's interesting. You'll see, if you look up his, in the maftechas of Igris Kadesh, you'll find Aryeh Leib Gelman letters, long letters, five pages, six pages. I think it's the letters. We don't know what he writes. But you can learn from the letter that he's speaking to the, he writes to the Rebbe, "We have to do something about Yiddishkeit in America." In 1930, it was given a matzvah of Yorud. Montonepis. Let's work together. And you should see that, and this is a friend. And the Rebbe writes to him-

1:51:19 Speaker 6 Friediker Rebbe.

1:51:20 Speaker 1 Friediker Rebbe. Friediker Rebbe writes to him, "I wouldn't even respond if it wasn't you, who I know that we're close and whatever." He recognizes, Friediker Rebbe recognizes his closeness and the chavivas that he has for the Rebbe. He recognizes it, acknowledges it. "But if it wasn't you, I wouldn't even respond." Basically, the moral, I'm putting, I don't want to put the words, but you can see it in Igris Kadesh. The Rebbe writes over there, says to him, "We speak two different languages, as if we're passing each other like ships in the night. This is not a good idea." Like, he mames that, that he does the ships in the night, but we are speaking languages like two people who cannot understand each other. So I love you, quote-unquote, and it's wonderful what you're doing, and I appreciate, you know, your, your desire to do this, but mixing them together, I mean, these are my words. And if you watch, and I think if you read Shlichos Kol Ha'Aretz, you'll see a lot of answers like that also. But in Iggros Kodesh, you see it again and again. There's one place where actually the Friediker Rebbe is disappointed in him. Even at higher Eid, by the way. Uh, he wrote a book, which I found on Eretz Yisrael, and this is already going off-topic a little bit. Um, Shlicha in St. Louis, uh, founded, knows that we are from the Mishpacha of the Neidau Behuda. Neidau Behuda was Segal Wanda.

1:52:53 Speaker 6 And that's in the UM.

1:52:54 Speaker 1 And that's her name, yeah. Segal Wanda. So I found this book by Arye Leib Gelman, a St. Louisan, who eventually he moved to New York, and he became the head of Mizrachi of America. The religious-

1:53:06 Speaker 6 What's the book?

1:53:07 Speaker 1 That's all. The name of the book is HaNeidau Behuda UMeshnoso.

1:53:10 Speaker 6 Mm-hmm.

1:53:11 Speaker 1 It's a biography on the Neidau Behuda of all things that he decided to write. Published in five hundred and sixty, I think '64 is when he wrote it. Yeah. Arye is not here for a long time already, but he was a shtikah talmid chacham, a bezrat ki kent epes, epes vas lan. Uh, and, um, he-- the Rebbe, uh, is disappointed in him, that we're gonna do something for Shabbos, epes something for Bima Ohr Shmiras Shabbos. And the Rebbe was maskim to use it-

1:53:40 Speaker 6 You're talking about the Friediker Rebbe?

1:53:41 Speaker 1 By the Friediker Rebbe.

1:53:42 Speaker 6 Yeah.

1:53:42 Speaker 1 I said the Rebbe, yeah. All this is the Friediker Rebbe. Yes, Arye Leib Gelman. Same guy. I don't know if at that time he was in New York already. Maybe he was still in St. Louis. But there are letters to him, and they're good letters, they're close letters, but this letter is disappointment. The Rebbe made up a condition, it sounds like. The Friediker Rebbe said, "I made a condition that, that you don't make it institutional. Yeah, of course, I have to be supportive of anything that people wanna set or do for Shmiras Shabbos. Of course, I would. But you put in names of organizations, and whatever you're in..." And, and that was the condition that I said, that that it doesn't become institutional. Very disappointed, because he saw that as divisive. "Ah, these guys are doing it. These guys are doing it. The other guys are doing..." That's what happens when you work together with other people. They're, they're only interested in getting points and credits and, and, and getting some publicity, uh, um, with Evyatar on that piece. That's not the, that's not the Lubavitcher Rebbe's haskonus. That's not the Lubavitcher Rebbe's haskonus. So we have to be wary. I don't have all the answers and to know exactly where the lines are drawn. I'm not suggesting that.

1:54:57 Speaker 6 Right. It obviously depends on each place, et cetera.

1:55:00 Speaker 1 I absolutely am saying that, and that's a very important thing to be said. But the sensitivity to that, I, I heard, and I understand, and I think that you wanna know what the success of the Rebbe is and the success of Lubavitch is? It's, it's techitas. It's techitas, and it's different than the others.

1:55:20 Speaker 6 It's what we bring to the table.

1:55:21 Speaker 1 And those are what we bring to the table, and that's the hatslacha. They're scratching their heads. "What's the secret of Chabad, Sandor Eli? What's the sec..." That's the secret. Techitas is-

1:55:31 Speaker 6 Chabad is the secret.

1:55:32 Speaker 1 Chabad is the secret, yeah.

1:55:34 Speaker 6 The Rebbe is the secret.

1:55:35 Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. All right.

1:55:37 Speaker 6 Amazing. I really appreciate it. This is a very geschmacke conversation.

1:55:40 Speaker 1 I think you got, I think you, I think you got more than what you-

1:55:41 Speaker 6 That's it. I'm sure there's much more to talk about.

1:55:44 Speaker 1 Yeah.

1:55:44 Speaker 6 Tish'a b'Av and hatslacha rabbonim shlichas. And, uh, thank you for sharing everything.

1:55:50 Speaker 1 Not a problem. Happy to do that. The Aibishter should be masmeach you. And, uh, the ultimate goal is bringing Mashiach.

1:55:59 Speaker 6 Amen. Kara mamash.

1:56:01 Speaker 1 Zei gezunt.